WEBVTT - Defeat Your Doppelgangers 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:13.600 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to the Stuff to Blow 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.200 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.960 You know, Julie. I U. I take marta headline is 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.120 public transportations to work every day. I don't know you've 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.920 taken it sometimes yourself. Yes, I have frequented at Martyn myself. Yeah, 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.520 And so you're completely surrounded by strangers, and if you're 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.960 like me, you kind of keep your head down and 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:34.960 eyes on your book and heading some music and trying 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.120 not to make eye contact. No eye contact, that's the 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.920 first rule. Yeah, but you still can't help it. Get 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:41.559 a glimpse of people out of it in your peripheral 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:46.280 vision and uh yeah, sneak looks and occasionally, if you 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.199 can get away with it, like genuine people watching, but 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.120 that's more of a sunglasses thing. But but anyway, that 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.639 when I first started taking it, I had this situation 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:57.600 where out of the corner of my eye, I was like, oh, 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.200 my goodness, that's my my friend Becky, who take makes 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.840 this uh this train as well, And I'd look over 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:06.959 and upon closer examination and and stringent questioning, I found 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.040 out that it is not her the questioning h yeah, yeah, 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:12.800 the question you know. I drilled her for about an 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:14.600 hour and she finally you know, fest up. No, I'm 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.240 not really packing but yeah, but anyway I can. I 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.520 still see her occasionally, and I think of her as 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.920 foe Becky, as this this doppel gang er, this this 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.240 double that Becky has in the world and apparently has 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.640 never met and doesn't know about, and probably to Becky 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.760 doesn't look a lot like Becky. But I even encountered 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:34.640 her in yoga class one time, and I wanted to 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:36.320 come up and be like, your foe, Becky, what are 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.080 you doing outside of Martha? But um it But this 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.960 this experience though, of seeing somebody else's double or seeing 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.640 your own double, uh, you just you find it throughout 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.160 human culture and in different way shaped and form it 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:57.880 might spirit um especially the classic German dopel ganga topel ganga. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.000 Really yeah, I like write it and you give it 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.559 a good sprockets go there. Um you know the idea 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.000 that there are or you know, invasion of the body 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.959 snatchers pod people, that there there are doubles out there 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:14.400 trying to replace you or replace people you love. Um, 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.959 it's just a common item in folk tale and fiction 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.600 throughout history. Yeah, I mean it means double walker right 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.760 in German. I believe so. And it actually that the 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.800 idea that the pure idea I suppose and folklore is 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.040 that it's your evil twin and if you were to 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.320 be visited by such, it would pretend death. And and 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.280 not every culture has it laid out like Star Trek 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.120 where you can tell your evil twin is evil because 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.720 of their goatee, right right, exactly. Yeah, And actually, I 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:47.519 mean there are a lot of people who have said 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.400 that they saw their their doppelganger, and Percy Shelley is 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:55.360 one of them. Uh, Abraham Lincoln that that falls into 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.400 the hole that Lincoln really get shot or was it 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.320 his twin? Right right? I mean it gets since some 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.000 creepy territory. Yeah, and uh, you know, as we're we 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.920 can explore in this podcast, there are there are various 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.440 types of what world is referred to as doppelgang er situations, 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.840 encounters with a mysterious double of some kind that that 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.799 have a definite scientific explanation. Um. And then that's what's 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.440 fascinating about it, because something has clearly been happening to 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.040 the mind, So kind of like the like we discussed 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.600 in our episode on an alien abduction, something is clearly happening. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:31.840 It causes people to have extraordinary situation encounters with what 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.639 seems to be the supernatural, and it becomes a part 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.880 of the stories we tell. Um. But you can when 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.360 you really examine it and boil it down with modern science, 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.680 you find some some some genuine reasons for what's happening. Yeah, 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.520 it's interesting that you bring that up, because in the 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.840 alien abduction there's there're always these memes, right, these these 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.520 ideas that have a certain thread running through them. So 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.000 a lot of alien abductions sound like the same sort 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.280 of thing, right, little green men, weird lights, so on 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.320 and so forth, and that shares some similar days with 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.080 double gangers. I think, yeah, because it's like you you 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.920 end up, say, you see yourself or you see somebody 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:10.720 who who you think has been replaced. Um, your mind 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.120 ends up coming up with these reasons for it. There's 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.000 a story they're that they're replacing somebody, there's some sort 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:20.120 of nefarious scheme at work. The thing is, our understanding 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.160 of it now is so much more nuanced, and so 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.000 in the past in degree, we were like, oh, that 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:30.040 person is just certifiability nuts, right, But now through neuroscience 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.440 we have a better understanding of it as an actual 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:38.040 secondary condition. So if you had brain lesions, UM, if 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:43.000 you had an epileptic fit or um some other uh 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:47.080 neurological damage to your brain, it's very possible that you 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.600 could have this type of delusion in which you had 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:54.480 a doppelganger of yourself or I might even imagine that 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.640 you right now have been replaced, that you are an impostor. 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.440 Who Yeah, it's possible for new listeners. You don't even 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.719 know if you you have no frame of reference. That's right. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.920 I mean I've never seen anywhere of that shirt before. 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.000 That's that's the way you're shuffling your papers. Well, let's uh, 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.839 let's get into it then. UM let's look at the 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:19.640 first of these doppelganger syndromes. And this is uh cop 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:25.000 grass syndrome. And this was discovered by French scientists Joseph 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:29.160 capgra In. Right. Yes, this syndrome basically breaks down to 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.680 you have to end up with this strong suspicion that 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.520 impostors are replacing friends and or loved ones, right and 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.120 everywhere else, you're you're completely functional, right, Like your logic 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:43.800 is completely intact um, nothing wrong with you except that, right, 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:45.960 It's it's the pod people thing, the invasion of the 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.840 body snatchers, right. Something you you run into, say, your 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.760 mother are a close friend and you're talking to them. 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.560 They they look like your mother. Uh, but there's something off. 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.880 There's something that's not right, that's not clicking, and and 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:06.040 and you realize and you your brain totally rationalizes that 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.240 something has replaced them, right, And you've actually covered this 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.279 in a blog post before U there was this one 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.120 specific instance where there was a guy I think he's 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.080 maybe in his twenties at the time, but he was 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:25.480 being treated by Dr vs. Ramachandran and he had an accident. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.920 He had some brain damage, and honestly he was perfectly 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:33.880 fine cognitively, you know, functioning, except that he was he 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.800 was convinced that his parents had been replaced by impostors. 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.040 And we're you know, complaining to them day and night 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.640 and basically saying, like, you know what, that lady that 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.919 was here this morning that made me the breakfast, I 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.080 like her better. Those eggs were really good, you know, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.600 sort of implying that the person that was standing right there. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.839 His mother was the impostor. So the way this breaks 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.240 down is that each of us has a visual system 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.240 and a limbic system which helps to generate and process emotions. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.560 All right, So there's a there's a screw up in 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.840 the visual system here, uh and and then it's left 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.760 to the to uh, to the to other parts of 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:18.560 the brain to interpret that data. Um, particularly the amiga amigdala, Right, 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:24.120 amigdala is the emotion processing center, right, and uh so 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.240 it has to it has to make sense of this, right, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.400 He's like, it engages the again, the emotional significance of 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.720 what you're looking at, trying to figure out, you know, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:33.280 what's going on there? Is this? Is this a threat? 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.280 Is this a dangerous it's something to ignore? And uh 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:38.680 and so it ends up getting excited and it ends 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.600 up and it ends up applying an interpretation or a 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.200 meaning to it. So it's um one way I was 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.640 thinking of it. It's kind of like, so you have 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:52.520 an editor and a journalist at a newspaper and say, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.480 that's just like a star journalist, right, and the editors 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.200 will always go go to bat for that journal to 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.480 that for that journalists to defend what they've written. You know, 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.200 someone says, hey, I don't, I don't. I don't think 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.080 they're they've got the story straight in this article. They say, no, totally. 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.960 This person is always done right by us, this one. No, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.000 this this guy knows his story. And then imagine that 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.600 that journalists I don't know, screws up one day, maybe 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.160 has a um, you know, a head injury or something, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.080 and and or or it's just totally misinformed on something. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:21.680 The journalist is still going to go to bat form 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.120 I mean, I mean the editor is still going to 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:24.960 go to bat for that journalists and be like like, 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.760 look this this person is totally totally knows their beat. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.760 They've they've got all the facts, um, you know, totally 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.800 trust the stellar creds. So it's kind of a similar 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.559 situation with these two systems in the brain. This one 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.960 system is getting something wrong, but the other side is 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.920 totally going to go to bat for it and say, yeah, 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.440 there's something wrong with this person. It's uh, it's it 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:48.360 must be um, it's a double it's a It ends 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:52.880 up creating a story in which this uh neural problem 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.520 makes sense. Well, that's what I think is so fascinating 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.920 about this is that you've got the fusiform gyris right, 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.120 which is the part of your brain that recognized is 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.640 the face, and so it's recognizing the mom and dad's 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.040 face right in the case of David, I believe it's 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.840 the subject here, Um, David's mom, Dad knows it, but 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.040 that the thread to the magdala is all sorts of 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.600 crazy shredded or you know what. It's not working, and 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.120 so that emotional processing isn't there. So David can say, yes, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.000 that is my mother, that is my father, and yet 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.960 I don't feel those feelings of love for them, and 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.400 then the brain can then take that, as you say, 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.920 anxiety sets in and start to weave a story around that. 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:37.199 That is fascinating that your brain is capable of doing that, 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.640 that instead of sustaining brain damage and having your entire 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.600 brain dim like a light bulb. You know, everything else 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.800 is functioning except for this one little part. And the 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:48.880 brain is like, you know what, We'll just run with this, 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.400 trying to make sense of this with the data that 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.320 we do have. We're not going to shut down production 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:55.800 just because something that the little fishy. We're gonna we're 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.240 gonna work with and therefore, you know, David's parents, they 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.679 must be imposters. That's what makes it's right, because if 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.000 you don't have that feeling of love, that connection, then 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.319 then that would be what your brain might perceive. Yeah, 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.240 and this can be The interesting thing about this too, 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.360 is it's not necessarily like a situation where it has 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.720 to be extreme brain brain trauma like alcoholism can play 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:20.960 a role in this. Pituitary tumors, migraines, UM, you know, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:26.680 against severe injuries, Alzheimer's UM, schizo, effective disorders, UM, a 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.560 whole host of There can be a whole host of 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.200 causes for this, and and in many cases you can 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:37.160 effectively treat the primary cause and uh, this doppelganger or 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.760 or you know, mysterious double or body snatcher a scenario 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.280 will just fade away. That's right. You could, I mean, 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.680 if it's a brain tumor, you could treat the brain 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.680 tumor and hopefully it would would completely go away. Or 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.240 you could use antidepressants if it's not a brain tumor, 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.959 or in conjunction with it UM. If it's dementa, though, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.439 that's a problem because you're continually going to have some 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.360 sort of deterioration going on in the brain. So in 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.599 some cases with to mention actually worsens. Yeah, and and 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:06.640 and when it worsens, you can also end up with 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:11.920 situations where an individual attacks or becomes violent towards, uh, 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.920 the other individual. Yeah. And you know, I have this 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.160 idea in my head and I don't know if it's 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.760 some sort of um myth, but I feel like someone 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.280 perceived their family member to be a robot and actually 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:31.400 ended up decapitating the person to see to verify whether 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.520 or not they had some robotics of puitry going on. Yeah. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.800 So if it's one way to tell, yeah, I mean 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:39.880 that's that's the extreme. So if you have a loved 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.800 one asking about where you're lithium ion battery pack is 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:51.880 seek shelter. This presentation is brought to you by Intel 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:59.080 sponsors of tomorrow. Yeah, and indeed, if you have any 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:03.160 suspicion that somebody has been replaced in your life by 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.640 by an impostor go to the doctor first before you 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.640 call the police or taking matters into your own hand, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.000 because it's uh, it is almost guarantee it's something and 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.840 your logical going on and not uh uh some sort 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:20.640 of twisted scheme to disrupt your life. Yeah, yeah, um, 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.760 and we know this too because Ramachandra, the doctor treating David, 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.679 he could actually test the emotional response and verify this 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.600 lack of emotional response. He uses the galvanic skin response. 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.120 And and of course we knew that you attach electrodes 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.400 to your hand and then when you think about someone 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.600 that you know, the loved one. In theory, you should 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.840 start sweating, right because you're you're having some sort of 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:49.240 emotional response. And and um, when Ramachandra tested this, there 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.880 was was absolutely no response whatsoever to his parents, was 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.280 absolutely flat. So he knew he had he had some 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.840 verification that this was what was going on. In addition, 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.760 and I thought this was really interesting. Um, David the subject, 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.240 when he would speak to his parents on the phone, 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.480 he didn't have the feeling that they weren't imposters. He 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.240 was like, where have you been? How? So like on 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:16.960 the phone, everything's fine, yeah, absolutely fine. Yeah. And so 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:22.640 what Ramachan positive is that the auditory circuitry was left 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:27.160 intact during the damage that he sustained and that it 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.559 was actually fine. And he ended up verifying that as well. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.200 So it's really kind of trippy that he could get 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:34.520 on the phone with his parents and be like, oh 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.160 my god, did you know that you've been taken over 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.360 by someone? Like they're in your house right now getting 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.640 to be I wonder how cold like the mom couldn't 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:45.560 call and say like, look, there's my double is going 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.360 to come over and cook breakfast this morning. I know 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.280 her breakfast isn't as good as the breakfast that I cook, Like, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.040 just be polite, be kind, and I'll talk to you 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.319 to night on the phone. Yeah, yeah, who knows. Maybe 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.840 she tried it. You know, maybe that made it worse 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.040 because then he was like, Okay, now I know for 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.880 sure because my mom, my real mom on the phone 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:09.760 told that's all right. Well that's one doppelganger down. Uh, 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:14.400 let's turn to another. Um, another interesting syndrome, and that 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:18.840 would be the syndrome of subjective doubles. Now, this is 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.360 this is not a oh, you know, you're on the 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.160 train and you look over and you see somebody looks 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.000 like a friend of yours. This is where you get 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.320 on the train and um, maybe maybe maybe at the 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.000 far end of the car you climb onto, maybe just 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.640 exiting as you come on, you see yourself yeah, it's 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:37.560 kind of terrifying, right, Yeah, this is more like the 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:42.160 classic German doppelganger. There is someone out there that has 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.360 either taken on my appearance or is trying to thick 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.000 on my appearance, and clearly they're up to no good. Well, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:49.680 in a study that you actually shared with me, there 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.720 was the case of miss A right. Yeah, she eighteen 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.080 years old. She thought that her neighbor was putting on 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.520 these elaborate prosthetic masks and wigs and masquerading as her, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.680 and the gang was putting them that's right, that's right. 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.760 There was some sort of puppet master gang out there 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.800 that was putting her up to it, and those people 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.600 were spalling on her or whatnot. So there was some 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.240 sort of paranoia that's woven into this as well. Um 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:23.160 and these um, these doubles actually replicated themselves when she 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.320 was admitted to a hospital and she got very upset 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.120 and assisted that the doubles of her the unmasked um 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.200 and again here's again instances where violence come into play. Yeah, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.360 Like she was actually like leaping at the double and 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:41.200 like trying to attack it, attack her, attack that her 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.320 perceived double, and insisting that the doctors tear the mask 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.280 off because she she thought that that she believed that 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.320 they were quote putting on a wig and a mask 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.080 and walking from room to room stealing things in order 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.040 to incriminate her. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of said. And 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.120 what they found is though that she suffered from epilectic seizure. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.720 So again here's another case where it's secondary. She may 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:07.080 have had some other conditions, um that had to do 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.360 with mental instability in addition to that. UM. It was 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.320 a little bit unclear from that study, but what was 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.520 clear is that this could definitely be some sort of 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.360 indirect process going on. Yeah, it seems like if you're 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.400 the type of if you've suffered through something or you 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.600 just end up with the mental um uh you know 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.760 architecture that it makes you think people are out to 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:29.920 get you, or you're very suspicious of people. It seems 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.000 like the stronger that is, the stronger that's going to 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.360 be when you perceive a double all right, right, And 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.160 she was treated with a number of things antidepressants, electric 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.800 shock therapy, so you know, sad um. But what I 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.040 thought was interesting about this is that we have heard 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.680 about these epileptic auras before that there's this sense that 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.520 someone might be there. And Susan Blackmore, we've talked about 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.880 her before. She she shown up in our Abductions podcast before. 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:00.840 And she's also the medicist's hair. She's blue, yellow, all 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.199 sorts of stuff. She's a skeptic and the psycho uh 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.879 analytic chick so to speak. Uh, she's great. And she 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.679 actually visited a doctor Michael Persinger at one point um 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.679 to undergo some manipulation on her own temporal lobes to 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.240 see if she could have this sort of sense of 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.120 someone else being there, this hallucination or rather this delusion 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.199 replicated in herself. And Persinger used these magnets on her 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.160 temporal lobes machine. Right, yeah, he's He's done a couple 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:36.880 of different things. But the God machine is was nicknamed 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:41.919 that because those sort of euphoric feelings of another are present, 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.359 hence the God machine. But she actually had the same 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.920 thing happened to her. So when he used those magnets 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.879 on her temporal lobes, she felt like there was someone 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.199 in the room with her. So it's really amazing that 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.320 we can get it down to this point in science 0:17:55.320 --> 0:18:00.400 where we can actually duplicate the duplications so to speak. Yeah, 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.520 and it's it's almost kind of like a like a 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:07.080 really potent form of deja viku. You know. It's a 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.679 except really really strong yea, and very disorienting. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.200 I mean, and yes, it's actually kind of a tragedy, 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.119 right because I mean for people who cannot alleviate it, 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.840 I mean, the suicide ridge is pretty high. Um, so 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.520 it's a little bit depressing. Yeah, it's you know, it's easy. 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.560 It's easy to look in from the outside of pretty 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.399 much any kind of mental illness or or a neurological 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.479 disorder and say, oh, well that, you know, I can 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.959 see the exit from that maze. But when you're actually 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.080 in that mental labyrinth, it's not not so simple. Yeah. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.200 And it's another example of how your mind is really 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.320 beautiful but can be really sick at the same time. 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:51.200 You know. But another example of this clonal pluralization of self. Now, 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.680 this one's great, This one's this is more like you 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.520 you're on the train and it's not that you're seeing 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.960 your double, but you are seeing yourself. That person isn't 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.040 an imposter, but it's another you. It's kind of kind 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.119 of like any any type of any of these films 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.760 were like suddenly a person clones himself and completely illogically 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.280 it's an actual double of them, or somebody travels in 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.080 time and he's hanging out with themselves. It's it's that 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.200 sort of scenario. It's sort of like if my twin 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.440 all of a sudden showed up. Yeah, yeah, and which 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.160 just happened to this eighty six year old man, right, yes, 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:28.960 Oh no, I don't. I don't think we have a 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.480 name for yeah, eighty six year old. Um. I believe 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:36.080 he's Hungarian um mentioned in a two thousand nine study. 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:40.280 And yeah, suddenly his uh, this doppelganger shows up, his 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.360 his it's not even a twin, but it's perceived as 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.240 as him, like right down of the clothes, he's wearing 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.399 the same clothes as this guy. And it's it's this 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.600 is a real twist on on our last scenario because 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:56.680 because there's not like, oh my goodness, I need to 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.200 bar the door because my doppelganger is shown up. I'm 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.920 I have company come in and let's let's have tea, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.880 let's do crossword puzzles. And they did. They literally did 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:11.000 crossword puzzles together, and um, and that's the interesting thing 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:15.800 to literally it's difficult in this scenario, right, Literally, in 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.680 his mind they did it together. But so for him 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.960 it was a sense of comfort. Rate yeah, yeah, it's 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.879 like this guy's lonely, and then who's who better to 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:26.639 hang out with but yourself when they fell up on 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.840 your door straight and uh, And he was kind of like, well, 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:31.640 I seem to have this twin and I think we're 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.879 the same person. Let's do some experiments so that the 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.960 crosswords was one. Like they each supposedly took the crosswords 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.600 into a different room and they filled out the crossword puzzle, 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.159 and then when they came in to compare notes, they 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:48.760 had the exact same answers. Can you imagine that? It's yeah, 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.359 I can imagine it even more if they were playing 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.879 scrabble against each other. Well, no, no, they wouldn't have 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:55.840 the same title, or would they. I don't know. This 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.520 is it's really hard to pre take because you're in 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.199 pre ten world now, right. Um. But he did have 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.720 brain lesions, right, uh. And the neurologist Dr Feinberg actually 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.040 said something along the lines of the brain lesions and 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.480 neuropsychological impairments are necessary, right for this condition, for this condition, 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.879 but the full development of these syndromes depends upon the 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.920 individual's responses to his or her defects as much as 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:24.160 the defects themselves. So I thought was interesting because they 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.040 had gone on in the study to say that clearly 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:30.240 he was lonely and that this this twin although it's 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.320 it's a figment of his imagination brought on by the legions, 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.800 he still had the subjective ring to it, where it 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:39.159 was like, you know, as long as I'm gonna have 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.720 this delusion, and might as well, you know, copy myself 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.320 and have a body, you know. Another experiment that he 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.760 performed with the double um, according to this guy, was 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.000 that one of them would stand in the house and 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.200 the other would stand outside, and the one standing outside 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:58.359 would describe what the one inside was seeing on the wall, 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.919 described like the exact size and details of paintings that 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:06.160 the guy had framed. UM, because they could see through 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:10.160 each other's eyes, right, I mean, you know, I laugh, 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:13.320 but it's just it's just kind of it's sort of funny. UM. 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:18.600