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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. We have an

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Speaker 1: amazing show for everybody today. It's going to be Ryan

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Speaker 1: and I. We are unfortunately detained at home, Ryan because

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Speaker 1: both of us are buried under several inches of snow.

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Speaker 1: But Virtual Pound people do live for the Pound, and

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Speaker 1: it's even these horrific times we do need to find

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Speaker 1: some levity and so Ryan and I, unfortunately the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of this show is going to have to be

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Speaker 1: dedicated to this horrific shooting out of Minnesota. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: many of you saw it by the way, shout out

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Speaker 1: to you, Ryan Dropside News for reporting that new angle

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Speaker 1: of the video that you brought to all of our viewers,

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Speaker 1: which makes it unambiguous the killing of this man, Alex Peretti,

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Speaker 1: completely unjustly. And that's what we're going to be spending

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of our time on. So Ryan and

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Speaker 1: I are first going to go over everything that we know,

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Speaker 1: not only about the shooting, the administration, the lies that

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Speaker 1: they've told about brandishing a weapon, many of the things

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Speaker 1: that have fallen apart in the subsequent comments from the

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Speaker 1: CBP director, from multiple administration officials. There were then going

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Speaker 1: to be joined by Janine Yunis. He's the civil liberties

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Speaker 1: lawyer who we had on previously to break down the

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Speaker 1: Renee Good shooting. This time Janine is going to join

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Speaker 1: us and talk about how the Trump administration is now

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Speaker 1: unronically arguing that if you bring a gun to a protest,

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Speaker 1: which is the right of all of us as Americans

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Speaker 1: specifically also state law, you know in Minnesota, that you

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Speaker 1: are liable apparently to be killed. Right, and this is

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Speaker 1: from our FBI director and from multiple other senior administration officials.

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Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. And Janine will help break some of that downforce.

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Speaker 1: We're also going to ask her about that administrative warrant story.

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Speaker 1: Crystal briefly was able to touch on it on Thursday,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to break it down fully with Janine again,

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Speaker 1: she's very well versed on the case law. We are

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Speaker 1: then going to be joined by Glenn Greenwald, great friend

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Speaker 1: of the show. Glenn is going to talk about this

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Speaker 1: new tactic ICE videos coming out of them saying that

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Speaker 1: there is a database being kept on protesters and on Americans.

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Speaker 1: So Glenn's going to break down the diminishing state, not

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Speaker 1: only just the civil liberties, but the creation of the

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Speaker 1: effective surveillance state. And then Ryan, you're going to help

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Speaker 1: us break down a government shutdown that appears to be looming.

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Speaker 1: This killing appears to have precipitated almost a certain government shutdown.

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Speaker 1: It is a landmark moment, I think for the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: for Tuck Schumer. The more interesting things that are happening

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Speaker 1: are really not with the progressive left. We've been calling

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Speaker 1: for stuff like this, but to see Senator Cortez Masso, Centater, Truck,

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Speaker 1: Schumer and others as talk of impeaching Kircy Nome and

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Speaker 1: things are really starting to heat up here in Washington.

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Speaker 1: This is a major, major political scandal. Finally, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about backlash whenever it comes to this story.

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Speaker 1: Just various you know, different Trump era supporters and others

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Speaker 1: who are speaking out again after the shooting, not just

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Speaker 1: the shooting itself, which I think we're again we want

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Speaker 1: to spend a decent amount of time on, but the

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Speaker 1: administration's response. That's the most important part of this entire thing.

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Speaker 1: And then the very last story, which is not relevant

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Speaker 1: to the shooting, is going to be about China.

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Speaker 3: We have to cover this.

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Speaker 1: It is by far one of the most consequential pieces

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Speaker 1: of news outside of this, you know from here in

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Speaker 1: the United States. The top general, basically the equivalent I

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Speaker 1: guess of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has.

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Speaker 4: Now effectively like the vice president.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, combined with the vice president, I mean,

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Speaker 1: an enormously consequential figure in China has been accused of

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Speaker 1: selling nuclear secrets to the United States. There are potential

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Speaker 1: rumors of a coup, There are all kinds of questions

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Speaker 1: that are being thrown around here. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: unbeliev important. Sishingping the biggest purge of the Chinese military,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically from the history of the CCP. It's

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Speaker 1: it's absolutely crazy some of the accusations that are going

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Speaker 1: around before we get started. Thank you to everybody who

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Speaker 1: has been supporting us and Ryan, I want to give

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Speaker 1: you a special shout out, and you know for that

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Speaker 1: video that you were able to break to our audience,

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Speaker 1: and I just want to say thank you to everyone

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Speaker 1: who supports our show and Ryan's show, just so people

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Speaker 1: know that video was completely demonetized and it just gives

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Speaker 1: you a demonstration of you know, and I'm really not

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Speaker 1: trying to make this about us, but this is where

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Speaker 1: independent journalism itself is so important and why we rely

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Speaker 1: so heavily on our subscribers and drop site does as well.

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Speaker 1: So Breakingpoints dot com please, because I can guarantee you

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Speaker 1: that this entire show is probably going to be demonetized

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Speaker 1: as a result, because we have to talk about the

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Speaker 1: news and horrific stuff and it literally is a business

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Speaker 1: question and our ability to survive.

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Speaker 4: So thank you everybody who has been Supportactional, just just

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Speaker 4: to be extra clear of what that means. The peop

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Speaker 4: Even though you can get this show for free, and

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Speaker 4: even though you can get drop Side news reporting for free,

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Speaker 4: because we don't keep it behind a paywall, the people

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Speaker 4: who voluntarily pay for it mean that we make our

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Speaker 4: decisions based on what is relevant, like what people need

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Speaker 4: to hear, not based on the AD revenue that we're

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Speaker 4: going to get, because we know that if we cover

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Speaker 4: things like that, we're not going to make AD revenue.

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Speaker 4: But we don't care because we're allowed to do the

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Speaker 4: news because you guys pay us like every month or

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Speaker 4: every year, depending on how you put it together. So

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Speaker 4: that's what makes it possible and put Getting that video

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Speaker 4: out changed the understanding of what happened, because up until

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Speaker 4: then you only had the footage once the melee started,

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Speaker 4: and you had Steven Miller out there saying that he

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Speaker 4: approached them trying to do a massacre, and you had

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Speaker 4: DHS saying he was trying to do a masacer. Then

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Speaker 4: you get this footage from the other perspective the drop

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Speaker 4: Side posted and it's like, oh no, he was helping

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Speaker 4: a woman off the ice. Where let's talk about it

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Speaker 4: now that we all have the facts, now let's talk about.

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Speaker 1: That is one of the most important videos ever ever

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Speaker 1: published in a situation like this, and again the timeliness

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Speaker 1: your ability to bring it to our audience to drop

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Speaker 1: side it changed absolutely everything. So again I do want

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Speaker 1: to thank you specifically appreciating the entire team that you

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Speaker 1: have over there. All right, guys, let's go ahead and

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Speaker 1: get started. Okay, so we've tied some of this up.

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Speaker 1: I do at this point, I'm assuming the vast majority

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Speaker 1: of Americans have seen this video. According to some more

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Speaker 1: recent polling, I do think that the single most relevant part, Mac,

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Speaker 1: if we can go and queue this up, if we're

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Speaker 1: going to slow down the video. What you're all watching

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Speaker 1: here is a slow mo effectively of the disarming of

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Speaker 1: Alex Peretti as he is on the ground. All right,

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Speaker 1: so let's go and blow that up so people can watch.

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Speaker 1: What you're all seeing here is that while there are

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Speaker 1: about seven ICE agents or bar Border Patrol agents that

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Speaker 1: are on top of Alex, is that you can watch

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Speaker 1: one of these agents actually reach into his waistband. It's

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Speaker 1: unclear if there's a holster there or not remove the weapon.

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Speaker 1: And then immediately.

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Speaker 3: Afterwards there are shots fired.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, one of the more shocking elements is

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Speaker 1: not just a video, Ryan that you reported guys, let's

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Speaker 1: go and play the next one as well as you

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Speaker 1: can hear these agents frantically shouting where's the gun? And

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Speaker 1: this is very relevant, So I'm gonna be quiet so

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Speaker 1: that you can all hear the audio here, specifically Maclis's

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Speaker 1: roll it all right, let's come out of that so

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Speaker 1: you gas can also hear clearly these agents are shouting

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Speaker 1: where's the gun. They had no idea where the gun is.

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Speaker 1: There are multiple theories ryan as to how something like

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Speaker 1: this could happen. The predominant theory from some gun enthusiasts

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Speaker 1: is that it's a potential accidental or negligent discharge from

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Speaker 1: the weapon after the disarmy. But what it does prove

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Speaker 1: conclusively is that the weapon was not on his person

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Speaker 1: at the time that he was killed. And I think

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Speaker 1: most importantly as well, is that it was removed from him.

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Speaker 1: His hands were clear, there was an iPhone in one

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Speaker 1: hand and the other hand was free. There is absolutely,

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Speaker 1: unambiguously no question that this, in law enforcement parlance, is

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Speaker 1: bad shoot, and I think for us, I think the

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Speaker 1: most important element of this is that it is literally

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Speaker 1: not disputable that he was armed at the time that

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Speaker 1: he was killed. There is a term for that. I

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Speaker 1: think that we all know, and you know, in a

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Speaker 1: normal system, at the very armed sorry an unarmed man

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Speaker 1: is killed. In a normal system, you know, you would

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Speaker 1: see something very different. And I do think that's why,

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Speaker 1: you know, at this point, even just analyzing the shooting

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Speaker 1: that's been the last forty eight hours that many people

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Speaker 1: have spent some time on Ryan, you know, with the disarming,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. That is again it's not even disputed at

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Speaker 1: this point by the government. What is most relevant, what

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Speaker 1: is most relevant to our discussion today, is not the

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Speaker 1: fact that he was disarmed and that he was killed,

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Speaker 1: but is the immediate response from this, which have massive

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Speaker 1: implications for our rights as American citizens. And so we

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Speaker 1: do want to put this tear sheet up here. Guys,

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Speaker 1: can we just if we can of Alex pretty Alex

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Speaker 1: he was. His parents put out a statement the quote

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Speaker 1: his life was just starting. One of his mentors said,

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Speaker 1: he was a nurse at a nurse at a VA facility,

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Speaker 1: and he was participating in these protests, which is his

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Speaker 1: right as an American citizen. More importantly, he was exercising

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Speaker 1: his Second Amendment right he was licensed to not only

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Speaker 1: to be able to own a gun. You don't need

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Speaker 1: a license or gun, but to conceal carry his weapon

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Speaker 1: on his person again, which is his right under Minnesota

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Speaker 1: state law, and a right that many of us have

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Speaker 1: depending on the state that we live in. And immediately afterwards,

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Speaker 1: Ryan the Border Patrol Chief took to the airwaves to

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Speaker 1: that he wanted to quote inflict maximum damage and brand

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Speaker 1: him as a domestic terrorist. So guys, let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and queue up this video just so you can all

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Speaker 1: see the immediate response. There are multiple claims here which

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Speaker 1: are very important, which end up falling apart later. This

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Speaker 1: was again in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a listen.

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Speaker 5: Also had two loaded magazines and no accessible ID. This

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Speaker 5: looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do

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Speaker 5: maximum damage in massacre law enforcement.

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Speaker 1: Massacre law enforcement. The Border Patrol chief is claiming that

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Speaker 1: if us as Americans carry a weapon again, as is

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Speaker 1: our right, that we have two magazines. I mean, these

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Speaker 1: people are gun control liberals at this point in time.

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Speaker 1: They're like every semi automatic dangerous weapon with the high

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Speaker 1: capacity magazine. This is how you know the most liberal

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Speaker 1: gun control activists will speak in the wake of yuvalde

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Speaker 1: or something else, except in this case it is again

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Speaker 1: from somebody who did not fire his weapon, did not

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Speaker 1: brandish his weapon. That's another important thing, because we're gonna

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Speaker 1: come back to brandish, and I apologize for monopolizing this

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Speaker 1: so far, but I am so absolutely furious about this situation.

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Speaker 1: Brandish is a specific term. It's actually a crime to

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Speaker 1: brandish a weapon at law enforce That in no way

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Speaker 1: is what was happening here. And the way that the

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Speaker 1: administration immediately came out afterwards to accuse of brandishment, of

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Speaker 1: massacre of domestic terrorism is it is not just about

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Speaker 1: the facts. It is about the fact that this is

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Speaker 1: by far, by far the most I have ever seen

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Speaker 1: our Second Amendment rights, even our Firstement rights at this point,

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Speaker 1: because the two are deeplying trampled on by the United

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Speaker 1: States government.

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Speaker 4: Go ahead, and Ryan, yeah, And we also have the

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Speaker 4: right or we for a long time have believed that

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Speaker 4: we have the right to feel like we have a

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Speaker 4: responsive self government. And I want to go back to

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Speaker 4: the point you made about the potential negligent or accident

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Speaker 4: accidental discharge. I've seen arguments for that, I've seen arguments

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Speaker 4: against it. Either way, it's does not justify this.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, right, but.

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Speaker 4: It's an important detail to find out. Previously, we would

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Speaker 4: trust the FBI to obtain that gun and to do

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Speaker 4: a forensic analysis of it, do a forensic analysis of

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Speaker 4: the agent in Gray's glove to see if there's any

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Speaker 4: residue on it, and then actually just tell the public, yes,

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Speaker 4: there was an accidental discharge. No, there was not an

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Speaker 4: accidental discharge, And from left to center to right, people

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Speaker 4: would be like, Okay, that FBI's forensic lab is serious,

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Speaker 4: Like this is what they tell us. This is now

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Speaker 4: what we understand to be the case about whether or

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Speaker 4: not there was that accident. I'll just discharge still completely unjustified.

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Speaker 4: Even if that happened, it's still unjustified. Homicide is still

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Speaker 4: still a bad shoot. But we're in a place where

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Speaker 4: I don't think anybody even remotely expects that the FBI

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Speaker 4: or DHS are going to even do that, are going

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Speaker 4: to ask that agent for his glove, are going to

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Speaker 4: check I hope I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: Gott residue.

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Speaker 4: But when you have the FBI director going on air

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Speaker 4: basically clearing him for what he did, you have Bovino

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Speaker 4: going on saying that the victim was actually trying to

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Speaker 4: massacre officers. You have No then going on and word

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Speaker 4: for word saying what Bovino said, and you have officials

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Speaker 4: from the administration going on cable news saying the exact

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Speaker 4: same thing. And you have Stephen Miller going after every

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Speaker 4: Democrat or reporter who reports on it, saying a man approached,

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Speaker 4: you know, officers with a nine millimeter trying to massacre them.

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Speaker 4: And this is your response to a shame on you, Like,

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Speaker 4: that's not an administration that anybody trusts to do an investigation,

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Speaker 4: even even just to find you know, minor details about it.

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Speaker 4: But yes, you're like, and so that is a that

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Speaker 4: is a breaking of the social contract. Last night you

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Speaker 4: started as you had half a dozen or a dozen

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Speaker 4: people outside the hotel where they thought that Ice was staying,

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Speaker 4: smashing up cars and smashing the window. Which if there's

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Speaker 4: no if there's no sense that they're ever going to

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Speaker 4: hold anybody accountable for this, a lot of the public

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Speaker 4: is going to step back and be like, well, I don't,

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Speaker 4: I don't support doesn't not going to participate in it.

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Speaker 4: But I get it, right, I mean, that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Ron I have spoken at length about liberal protests, norms,

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Speaker 1: and liberal activism, and I, you know, incensed about that church,

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Speaker 1: you know, the storming and all of that. And and

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Speaker 1: I think that all, I mean, I maintained all of that.

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Speaker 1: And one of the criticisms of that is, no, we

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Speaker 1: don't violate the social contract is that we deserve or

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Speaker 1: But an important part of that is that the the authority,

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Speaker 1: and in this case the ultimate authority, the supreme authority,

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Speaker 1: the United States government, the federal government of the United States,

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Speaker 1: in the way that they have conducted themselves after this.

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Speaker 1: It it that also leads to an insane amount of chaos.

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Speaker 1: And that is why, right, I mean, I barely even

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Speaker 1: have words for how angry I am about this situation.

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Speaker 1: Can we put you know, mister Bevino, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you know, backtracking completely from his original claims, Mac, let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and load some of that up here.

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Speaker 3: Please.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's just take a listen.

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Speaker 5: All those facts, things like how many shots were fired,

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Speaker 5: where were the weapons located? All those facts are going

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Speaker 5: to come out in the investigation. I wasn't there resting

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Speaker 5: that assaulted subject, that was assaulting border patrol agents. I

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Speaker 5: wasn't there wrestling him myself. So I'm not going to speculate.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to.

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Speaker 4: Wait for that investigation to coach, don't interrupt me.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to wait till that investigation comes out until

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Speaker 5: I make a decision there. During this operation, an individual

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Speaker 5: approached US Border Patrol agents with a nine millimeter semi

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Speaker 5: automatic handgun. The agents attempted to disarm the individual, but

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Speaker 5: he violently resisted.

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Speaker 1: That's bullshit. He didn't approach them with the gun. He

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Speaker 1: had it hulstered, and as the video that you showed

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Speaker 1: very clearly showed, he was.

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Speaker 4: Look.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's not sugarcoat it either. Yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: there to protest. Okay, that's what apparently. Yes, he was

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Speaker 1: there to protest. Okay, that's his right. He's an American citizen.

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Speaker 1: And at some point somebody gets spray sprayed, pepper sprayed.

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Speaker 1: He was trying to step in. He did resist. Okay, fine,

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Speaker 1: you can resist to wrest. It shouldn't in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: but okay, fine, it's not a death sentence. It's only

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Speaker 1: a death sentence if you pull out a gun and

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Speaker 1: shoot you point it at an offer. That is not

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Speaker 1: what happened, period, end of story, and the DHS Secretary

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Speaker 1: Kircynome again specifically in the moments after the shooting, accused

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Speaker 1: him of brandishing a weapon. Guys, let's go ahead and

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Speaker 1: play that please. That is our next one. These are

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Speaker 1: all very important for the public record to show the

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Speaker 1: immediate way that their were claimants. Also, Yeah, doing this

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a disastrous snowstorm, where you know, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: you and I are all again you know when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the government, we're all looking for like decent information.

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Speaker 1: You know what do we do exactly way of like

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Speaker 1: life threatening conditions on our roads. And this is the

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Speaker 1: idiot that we have in charge. Let's go and take

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Speaker 1: a listen.

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Speaker 7: Tend to do bodily harm and other convictions as well.

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Speaker 7: This individual went and impeded their law enforcement operations, attacked

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Speaker 7: those officers, had a weapon on him and multiple dozens

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Speaker 7: of rounds of ammunition, wishing to inflict harm on these officers,

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Speaker 7: coming brandishing like that and impeding their work that they we're.

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Speaker 1: Doing again, brandish is a term that means something very

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Speaker 1: specific whenever it comes to law enforcement. In no way,

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Speaker 1: in no way does that rise to this at all.

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Speaker 1: You know, to your point here about evidence. Let's put

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Speaker 1: the tear sheet please, the Axios tear sheet number fourteen

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Speaker 1: here on our rundown about evidence. There is now something

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Speaker 1: that's been moving through the court system. A judge has

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Speaker 1: quote block Feds from destroying evidence. In the Minnesota shooting,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of confusion immediately after the shooting.

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Speaker 1: So according to the Minneapolis PD, they immediately tried to

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Speaker 1: secure the scene that they said that they were blocked

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Speaker 1: by the FEDS. The FEDS actually retreated very quickly after

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Speaker 1: this because of the growing number of protests. Minnesota PD

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Speaker 1: also actually apparently was not able to secure the scenes

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Speaker 1: because there's an insane at a protester. So again, look,

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Speaker 1: I will I'm not even going to talk about liberal

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Speaker 1: protester today. It's not even appropriate because at this point,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, and on.

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Speaker 4: The point on resisting arrest, a law enforcement source sent

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Speaker 4: me a piece of a training guy that has this

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Speaker 4: pyramid that shows like the level of compliance that a

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Speaker 4: suspect is engaging in or non compliance versus then the

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Speaker 4: corresponding level of force that your training requires, and what

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Speaker 4: the officer said that clearly what he would be categorized

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Speaker 4: as is what they call passive resistance. Now, first of all,

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Speaker 4: there's no evidence that they're actually even arresting him if

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Speaker 4: you notice it.

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Speaker 1: Quickly and again you know, even for what purpose, Like

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Speaker 1: what's they spram He puts his hands up and then

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Speaker 1: he grabs him like by the back of the jacket.

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Speaker 4: He's trying to help the woman up. They throw them

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Speaker 4: down on the ground. Certainly there's a fight, there's no like, hey,

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Speaker 4: you're under arrest, like freeze, like at.

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Speaker 1: Least I couldn't hear it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe we'll end up hearing it. But and then

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Speaker 4: they start hitting them in the flashlight and you know,

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Speaker 4: punching like and then it becomes a fight and they

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Speaker 4: and it's termed passive resistance because he's not attacking them

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Speaker 4: at all, Like he's not hitting them what he's And

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Speaker 4: I think it's just a human reaction. Like if you

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Speaker 4: imagine you've just been sprayed in the face multiple times,

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Speaker 4: you can't see you you know, it's icy, you're and

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Speaker 4: that's key too, you're ice, it's icy, you're slipping around

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Speaker 4: on the ground, you're being hit with like a mag

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Speaker 4: light in your in your head, in your face, so

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Speaker 4: you're trying to get your like hands and elbows front

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Speaker 4: your head to protect yourself. It's just a natural impulse.

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Speaker 4: It's going to look like you're wiggling and resisting. So

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Speaker 4: that's why they have the term passive resistance. The response

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Speaker 4: to that is supposed to be a de escalation and

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Speaker 4: and you know, just an attempt to get the situation

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Speaker 4: under control. There is no world in which passive resistance,

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Speaker 4: which is the just above compliant on the pyramid, goes

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Speaker 4: all the way up to deadly force. And I see

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Speaker 4: a diminishing number of people defending the actions of this

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Speaker 4: agent or agents who killed him, but there's still some

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Speaker 4: out there, and so I guess that's that's for. That's

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Speaker 4: for those people were.

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Speaker 1: The only defense is they heard a gunshot, freaked out

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Speaker 1: and fired. Sorry, that actually isn't really how it works.

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Speaker 4: Maybe if you look at that video, appears to see

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Speaker 4: his colleague pull the gun, which means the person from them.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk about it. Again, I

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Speaker 1: mean you could maybe you could argue that in court

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Speaker 1: considering how cop laws. I mean, I talked about this

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Speaker 1: after Renee. Good people should not forget like there's an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary difference at least, And that's actually why the shooting

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Speaker 1: itself is I don't know. You tell me what you

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Speaker 1: think the circumstances of the shooting, while they are a disaster,

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Speaker 1: while they show incompetence at the very least, while they

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Speaker 1: show an obvious like immediate escalation on the part of Ice,

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Speaker 1: I don't even think that that is the biggest story

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Speaker 1: that's come from that. What has come is the government's

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Speaker 1: response is the line is the brandishing is accusing him

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Speaker 1: of being a threat for for the mere purpose of

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Speaker 1: having a gun, of having a gun alone is apparently

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Speaker 1: the crime in which merited his death, and then from

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Speaker 1: that point forward jumping and setting some sort of standard

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Speaker 1: here around how we are not allowed to exercise again

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Speaker 1: a fundamental right as Americans to be able to bear arms.

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Speaker 1: And I do think you go ahead.

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Speaker 4: When Chicago, I think it was CBP in Chicago when

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Speaker 4: they killed Mira mar not killed. They shot Mira mar

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Speaker 4: Martinez five times. She survived those shots. They initially said

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Speaker 4: it was a ramming attack, and ten vehicles surrounded a

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Speaker 4: CBP officer, putting him in fear of his life. We

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Speaker 4: reported last week that now they obtained surveillance footage of

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Speaker 4: a nearby business complete and total lie. It's gotten so

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Speaker 4: bad that the Free Press, Barry Weiss's news organization, ran

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Speaker 4: a column called the Lies of Christino, Like that's like,

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Speaker 4: that's how bad it's gotten it. It's people keep using

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Speaker 4: that nineteen eighty four quote. You know, the last thing

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Speaker 4: the party asked you to do was to disbelieve what

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Speaker 4: you were seeing with your own eyes. And the gap

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Speaker 4: between the videos of what we're seeing in these incidents,

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Speaker 4: combined with the over the top rhetoric, like even with

434
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 4: Renee Good, the initial DHS statements where this was a

435
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 4: domestic terrorist who tried to do a ramming of our agents.

436
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 4: You can now people can debate whether or not his

437
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 4: body was in the front or on the side of

438
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 4: the vehicle as she started to accelerate. Nobody who watched

439
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 4: that without with fresh eyes would be like, oh, yeah,

440
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 4: that's a domestic terrorist doing a ramming attack. Like nobody

441
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,479
Speaker 4: would say that, nobody, but that was the description. And

442
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 4: so that gap is opening up this extraordinary credibility gap,

443
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 4: which then, like you said, they're trying to fill with

444
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 4: justifications like oh well, if you show up armed to

445
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 4: a protest, if you touch a federal official, you're going

446
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 4: to be killed, and you should understand that FAFO be

447
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 4: like whoa hold on.

448
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: A second here, f a FO is very different. Okay,

449
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: f a FO is I pull a gun out in

450
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: the middle of an arrest, and then you get.

451
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 4: Get this AFO within your second Amendment in first Amendment? Right,

452
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 4: So that's not f a.

453
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: Well, you know everyone's was apparently now a Kyle Rittenhouse

454
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: is a criminal by the way, under this standard, which

455
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: by the way, that was the textbook definition of FAFO.

456
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: He has a gun. Sure, you know, I'm in the

457
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: liberal line at the time was he shouldn't have even

458
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: been there. It's like, well, people try to chase him,

459
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: literally try to kill him, and he fired, and you

460
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: shot in self defense and he was acquitted at trial,

461
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: I think correctly as a result of it. That's FAFO.

462
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: This is in no way rises to that standard.

463
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 4: F a FO is FU.

464
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: If fucking around is bringing a gun to a protest,

465
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: we're fucked, actually, you know, as a country. Uh, And

466
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: you know, I can't believe it, especially after watching so

467
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: many of these protests over the years. Where again I

468
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: have no problem with people bringing a gun to a

469
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: protest as long as they are doing so illegally peacefully

470
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: and are exercising their right which they always should be

471
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: able to. You know, I have argued here for too

472
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: long against red flag laws and against second Ammic gun

473
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: protections and all this just to watch apparently a fucking

474
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: Republican administration come in here and say that this guy

475
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: deserved to die for doing absolutely nothing wrong whenever it

476
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: came to his gun rights. Now, whenever, you know, we

477
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: continue to talk about this, I think it's very important

478
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: and I don't want to diminish his death in any way.

479
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that his death is an enormously consequential story,

480
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: because it obviously is. It's not just about the bad shoot.

481
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: It is the lies. It's the saying he brandished his weapon.

482
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: They called him a domestic terrorist. Stephen Miller specifically said

483
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: that they said he brandished them. They didn't. And now

484
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: the line is literally that because he brought a gun there,

485
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: that he intended to massacre people because he had too magazine.

486
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: Any gun owner out there you know exactly how ridiculous

487
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: the idea of having a gun with two magazine, which

488
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: is very common for people who can steal carry, is

489
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: in any way some sort of intent there is no

490
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: intent ascribed to that behavior whatsoever under any reasonable standard

491
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: for anybody of the tens of millions of us who

492
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: are gun owners here in the United States. And then finally,

493
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: really what it comes down to is that because they

494
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: have no defense, is that they are also not handling

495
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: this in not just appropriate in any standard way, like

496
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: you're saying about some sort of investigation. I mean, I

497
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: think it's insane that a judge even have to be like, oh,

498
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: don't destroy evidence. But the fact of the matter is

499
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: we have to be honest here. The DHS immediately came

500
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: out and said, we're going to investigate ourselves. Okay, their

501
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: FBI said that they weren't going to investigate the case.

502
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: You need to look at Kirsty Nome and Bevin and

503
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: be like, are these credible people who in any way

504
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: could you know, could conduct an investigation? And you're talking

505
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: there about the social contract. While it's obvious that many

506
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: police departments investigate officer involved shootings, you.

507
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 3: Know what they usually do.

508
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: They take those agents or the police officer sho's put

509
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: on leave.

510
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 4: It's just for psychological reasons alone.

511
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: For psychological reasons and for an investor, even in the

512
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: clearest cut, like body cam, gun out you you still

513
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: do it because it's treated again, it's always treated as

514
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 1: if it might be murder. You investigate, you clear the officer,

515
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: the CBP commissioner, so sorry, the Border Patrol chief Bavino.

516
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: He says, these agents have been have left Minneapolis for

517
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: their own safety, but they are still on the job

518
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: and they're actively working as of today, every single one

519
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: of them actively in working today. Again, like you just said,

520
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: gunshot residue for the guy who took the r is

521
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: that gonna happen? What's gonna happen for the people who

522
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: pull the trigger? I mean, you know, at the very least, like, dude,

523
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: you need to lawyer up from your union. You need

524
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: to sit down and potentially a hostile interview and be like,

525
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: what were you thinking in the moment? Video shows this?

526
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: Could you see it? Line of sight says that you could.

527
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: I mean, none of that, to our knowledge has happened

528
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: at all. They're claiming that they're going to have an investigation. Bullshit,

529
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: haven't seen any of that. The only reason there might be,

530
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a little bit, is that

531
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: even congressional Republicans now are like WHOA, We're going to

532
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: need a transparent investigation. And then finally, I think we

533
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: need to zoom out here again. As I've said, I

534
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: have spoken at length about liberal protest norms, and you know,

535
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: would I be out there, you know, blowing whistles and

536
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: all that. No, absolutely not. But but and and that's

537
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: why at this point, this is where the Trump people

538
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: have lost, is that when you are going to get

539
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: to a point where you, as an American are being

540
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: labeled as a domestic terrorists by your government for bringing

541
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: a gun, and then you're going to try and say

542
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: that if you bring a gun to any protest whatsoever,

543
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: that you were liable to be killed. No, no, no, no, no.

544
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: This is very different. And this is also fundamentally different,

545
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: I would say from the Renee Good case, because and Ryan,

546
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: I think you can even admit this. There was a question,

547
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: especially in the immediate not about ramming, about whether like

548
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: there you could see a reasonable doubt situation.

549
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 4: There was there was a live debate, and I think

550
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 4: it's yeah, there's a lot of debate.

551
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: And the point that I would always make what I

552
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: made in the immediate aftermath is I was like, guys,

553
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: you need to look at the caselaw on this, there's

554
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: a like reasonable doubt is a very like is a

555
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: standard there that usually sides on the piece of offices.

556
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: I don't even think you handle it well, like to

557
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: be very very clear, I'm saying, though, if you could see,

558
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, you could maybe and there's a potential video

559
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: of being that's not even remotely you know, in the

560
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: in the realm of this, because at that point we're

561
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: arguing about behavior, but there's a potential legal you know

562
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: tree here about like awful but lawful type situation potentially

563
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: could have been one of those.

564
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 3: Here's a question. Yeah.

565
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 4: We'll speak to Janine Yunis later, the civil liberties attorney,

566
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 4: and she has said that she even sees a difference,

567
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 4: a distinction between these two. She felt like the Renee

568
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 4: Good killing that she could get a conviction, but she

569
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 4: said this one is even clearer, as she put it.

570
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and again, I mean it's not even

571
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: just about it being clear for the actions of the video.

572
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: It is the response now from the United States government,

573
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: I mean immediately putting out and maybe this is worth

574
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, the TikTok for those of you who are

575
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: not just like following the news all the time. In

576
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: the immediate aftermath of the shooting, they just decided to

577
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,719
Speaker 1: tweet out a picture of a gun on a car

578
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: seat as if it proves anything, As if it proves anything,

579
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: So what if he had gone So.

580
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 3: What did he pull out out?

581
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 8: Yeah?

582
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 4: In Minneapolis, Police Chief Brian O'Hare kind of responded to

583
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 4: this federal argument that, well, we had to kill him

584
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 4: because he had a weapon with his own response, Mac,

585
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: can we put up I think it's the fifteenth doll

586
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 4: B fifteen here?

587
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 9: Do you know that pretty was assaulting the federal officers?

588
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 9: As the Border patrol chief claims, Well, I've.

589
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 6: Seen the videos, just as thousands of people around the

590
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 6: country have, and the videos speak for themselves. I think

591
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 6: it's deeply concerning the things that are being said. This

592
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 6: is an individual that was a city resident. It appears

593
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 6: that he was present exercising his First Amendment rights to

594
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 6: record law enforcement activity and also exercising his Second Amendment

595
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 6: rights to lawfully be armed in a public space in

596
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 6: the city. So I think very obviously there are serious

597
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 6: questions that are being raised, and I think the greater

598
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 6: issue is, even if there is an investigation that ultimately

599
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,479
Speaker 6: proves that at the time of the shooting it was

600
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 6: legally justified. I don't think that even matters at this point,

601
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 6: because they're just there is so much outrage and concern

602
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 6: around what is happening in the city.

603
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 9: What do you mean it doesn't matter at this point?

604
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 10: You mean the.

605
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 9: Situation on the ground is already the impression is left.

606
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 6: People have had enough. This is the third shooting now

607
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 6: in less than three weeks. The Minneapolis Police Department went

608
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 6: the entire year last year recovering about nine hundred guns

609
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 6: from the street, arresting hundreds and hundreds of violent offenders,

610
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 6: and we didn't shoot anyone. And now this is the

611
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 6: second American citizen that's been killed shooting within three weeks.

612
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 6: People have been speaking out saying that this was going

613
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 6: to happen again, and I think everyone is kind of

614
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 6: waiting for folks on both sides to come together and

615
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 6: just figure this thing out. This is not sustainable. This

616
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 6: police department has only six hundred police officers. We are

617
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 6: stretched incredibly thin. This is taking an enormous toll trying

618
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 6: to manage all of this chaos, on top of having

619
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 6: to be the police department for a major science.

620
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: Let's pull out of this. I think this is also

621
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: an important point and something that I have You know,

622
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: I've argued with Crystal endlessly about ice and you know

623
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: all of this. At this point, it is actually inarguable

624
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: that you're creating more chaos. And now I've talked, I've said,

625
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: even look at ignores the chaos of what it means

626
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: to have people who are present in your country illegally. Yes,

627
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: we can have debates all day long about sanctuary city,

628
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: which look, I'm happy to hold that for another time period.

629
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: Even the President, by the way, his only real response

630
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: after this shooting was just to say, hey, we should

631
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: pass a law to end sanctuary. Fine that needs to

632
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: be resolved through the democratic process, and that cannot involve

633
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: a simultaneous not just this situation, but the fallout now

634
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: which you own one hundred percent, and you know if

635
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: we're going to resolve this through democratic means. What we

636
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 1: have watched is that while yes, Trump obviously has a

637
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: mandate or had a mandate whenever he was elected to

638
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: seal the border to mass support people who are here illegally,

639
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: it has moved beyond that in these multiple cases where

640
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: and this is where again you know, if you have

641
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: to be watching this, you can see this wasn't even

642
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: a guy who was here illegally, and in fact he

643
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: was a US citizen and in fact, look again, I'll

644
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: defend deportation if it's actually happening. Well, you know, the

645
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: actual result which has come out is that the detail

646
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: of the raid, which they said that it was going

647
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: to be happening, was not even correct. They said that

648
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: they were doing a targeted operation against the specifically, and

649
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: they named this illegal citizen or sorry, illegal alien. They

650
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: said we're going to go after the Then the Minnesota

651
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: Department of Corrections is like, I don't even know what

652
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: you're talking about. This guy des literally not in our custody.

653
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: They're completely incorrect. You actually released him back in twenty eighteen.

654
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: It's like, well that if that's a shoddy process you

655
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: know behind all of this, Yeah, no, sorry, especially if

656
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: it's going to result in the death of an American,

657
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: not just the debt, but you know, the killing of

658
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: this guy after he's being disarmed. And then the subsequent

659
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: response is basically was his fault, you know for bringing

660
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: a gun?

661
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 10: No?

662
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: You like you you are, you are so far beyond

663
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: immigration enforcement at this point, and it is obvious now

664
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to do an entire thing about

665
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: backlash from the public. Good by the way good they

666
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: should have should be backlash again something like this. But

667
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: I think this is actually a watershed moment. I think

668
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: this is the day. I think that was the day

669
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: that Trump actually did lose on the question of immigration.

670
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: And we are so far beyond in that in this

671
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: moment now, because it's not even the subsequent debate topic,

672
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: because now we tall questions of civil liberties of two A.

673
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: And you know, I guess, to be fair to you

674
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: and Chris, you guys have been talking.

675
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 4: And I think that's begin I think that's what O'Hara

676
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 4: is saying when he says, even if an investigation comes

677
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 4: out and you know, determines that this was justified, people

678
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 4: have had it. Like people have seen what they have seen,

679
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 4: three shootings in two and a half weeks. People are

680
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 4: people don't want this chaos because nothing that an investigation

681
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 4: can uh to determine is going to unwind what happened.

682
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 4: We all saw what happened. Period. We don't want this

683
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 4: to happen in our streets. Your point about the alleged

684
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 4: target of this alleged targeted operation is a key one. Yeah,

685
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,959
Speaker 4: they said that this was a violent criminal. They probably

686
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 4: called him a pedophile that they were trying to go after,

687
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 4: and they put a name out anybody. You don't have

688
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 4: to be the Department of Corrections in Minneapolis to search

689
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 4: the Department of Corrections database, like federal officials complain they're

690
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 4: not working with us. You can search state prison records

691
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 4: and find out if the guy has any record, like

692
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 4: law enforcement at the federal level has access to that data.

693
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: The fact that they put that name out without either

694
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 4: checking whether it was true that he had a criminal record,

695
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 4: and it wouldn't be embarrassing that actually it was a

696
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: Trump administration that released him in twenty eighteen or b.

697
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 4: They don't care that. They just put the information out

698
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: and it might be wrong, it might be correct, but

699
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 4: they don't actually care. I don't know which one is

700
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 4: more disturbing, the incompetence or actual malicious lying. But either way,

701
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 4: to your point, they have blown their mandate they had.

702
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 4: They still have the mandate I think for the border

703
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 4: because people are like, okay, fine, border like because they're not.

704
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: We're not.

705
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 4: If we were seeing people gunned down at the border. Yeah,

706
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 4: it'd be different, then that would be a different question.

707
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 4: But we're not seeing those kinds of images. But the

708
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 4: mandate for rounding up people outside of grocery stores and

709
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 4: home depots and restaurants and just plucking them off the

710
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 4: streets to the extent that they had that at all,

711
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 4: which I would quibble with whether or not they actually did.

712
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 4: But you let's say they did. They don't have it

713
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 4: anymore because of the way they carried it out.

714
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 1: Because it's not just the way that they carried it out,

715
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: it is the subsequent blowback effect and the way that

716
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: they're treating people who are protesting. You can even do that, well,

717
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, in a way where you're not literally shooting people,

718
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean, and then immediately accusing anybody who speaks out

719
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: against it of domestic terrorism. Domestic terrorism is a very

720
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: serious term, very serious accusation which we're now being watched

721
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: actually be created into a surveillance state, which we're going

722
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: to be talking about with Glenn. Okay, we've got Jeanine

723
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: Unis standing by. She's going to talk to us about

724
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: two A. She's going to give her some of her

725
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: analysis on the shooting. So let's get to it. We're

726
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: very excited now to be drained by Janine Unis. She's

727
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: a repeat guest here and she is the National Legal

728
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: director at the ADC, very principled civil liberties lawyer, and

729
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: she's here to talk to us for her reaction not

730
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: only to this horrific aftermath of this shooting, but of

731
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: the implications for our civil liberties. So, Jeanine, thank you

732
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: very much for making the time, and it's good to

733
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: see you again.

734
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 8: Oh, thank you so much for having me back.

735
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely associate with Janie Ryan and I just had a

736
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: very spirited, i think criticism of the administration that's putting

737
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: it lightly of the way that this has all gone down.

738
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: But of course we are always reliant on legal experts.

739
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: You yourself a former defense attorney. You gave us your

740
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: impressions immediately in the aftermath of the Renee Good case.

741
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: Could you just break down what you see here in

742
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: this particular case in the death of all pretty.

743
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 8: So in the Renee Good case, I acknowledged I think

744
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 8: there's some arguable ambiguity, at least with respect to the

745
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 8: first shot that you know, maybe a defense attorney could

746
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 8: convince a jury. I still think that that was a

747
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 8: bad shooting and shouldn't have happened. But this, I would say,

748
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 8: is a clear cutcase of murder. I mean, he was

749
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 8: pretty obviously executed. I watched the video a number of

750
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 8: times because the fact that everybody was wearing brown made

751
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 8: at confusing for me for a little bit, but it

752
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 8: became quite clear that he basically didn't I don't think

753
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 8: he did anything wrong at all. Still, you don't necessarily

754
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 8: deserve to be shot for doing something a little bit wrong.

755
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 8: But he, you know, he didn't, was not aggressive with officers.

756
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 8: I don't think he even broke any laws. He was

757
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 8: trying to protect two women from their aggression. They pepper

758
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 8: spray all three and then tackle him and he's like

759
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 8: writhing on the ground, and then it looks as though

760
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 8: that one of the officers takes a gun off him,

761
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 8: and then another officer shoots him nine times. I mean,

762
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 8: that's just an execute. I don't know. The fact anyone

763
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 8: would try to defend this is astonishing to me.

764
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 4: In the in the first segment, we were talking about

765
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 4: the notion of passive resistance, which is a term that

766
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 4: police use in their training. It's the it's the kind

767
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 4: of most minimal level of resistance, and it means that

768
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 4: he's not remotely offensively going after any officers. In this case,

769
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 4: there's video from the front. He's being hit in his

770
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 4: face and head by what looks to be like a

771
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 4: mag light, which if anybody's ever been either that or

772
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 4: a billy club, it looks more like a mag light

773
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 4: if anybody's ever been hit with one of those. Those

774
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 4: are extremely heavy, solid things, you know, and then filled

775
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 4: with like D batteries that are going to that could

776
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 4: cause like irreparable damage to you. And so, as you said,

777
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 4: writhing around on the ground, you're trying to protect your body.

778
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 4: It's just a natural impulse to protect your body. And

779
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 4: that can be categorized somehow as passive resistance because you're

780
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 4: not just you're not you're not not moving. But nothing

781
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 4: in the police training justifies go elevating that to capital

782
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 4: punishment like execution on the spot have have you? You know,

783
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 4: I think we got accustomed to seeing a lot of

784
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 4: videos of police shootings throughout the twenty tens as the

785
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 4: as that era arose. Where does his rank on the

786
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 4: most blatant executions that you've that you've seen?

787
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,959
Speaker 8: I would say it's the most blatant one I've seen.

788
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 8: I haven't seen. I haven't seen anything like that from

789
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 8: the United States. It's I mean, and the standard for

790
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 8: self defense for cops is basically the same, or law

791
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 8: enforcement is basically the same as for civilians, except that

792
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 8: might be held to a slightly higher standard, which is basically,

793
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 8: you're not entitled to use force unless you reasonably believe

794
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 8: that you're at imminent risk of death or serious physical injury.

795
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 8: You're not allowed to as deadly physical force, and the

796
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 8: force us to be to proportionate and has to be

797
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 8: necessary to stop the threat. So this I don't see

798
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 8: even any argument here. I guess, you know, if this

799
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 8: case ever goes to trial, which is probably unlikely, very sadly,

800
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 8: because that's the mess carriage of justice, But I don't

801
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 8: I guess the cop could probably argue that he was

802
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 8: confused or something because someone yelled gun, and that's probably

803
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 8: the best defense that he's going to have. But I

804
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 8: don't see a jury of quitting. That seems unlikely to me.

805
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, But Janine, what's crazy is that that's not even

806
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: what they're going with, because you could see that again,

807
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: I don't think you would go in the justification is, well,

808
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: he had a gun and that's liable to get you killed. Apparently,

809
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and q up mac our great FBI

810
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: Director Cash Petel, who has laid out a case again

811
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: the top law enforcement officer of the United States, saying

812
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: you cannot bring a firearm to any sort of protest

813
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: that you want. Let's take a listen.

814
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 11: No, I mean, thousands of people are marching through Minneapoli

815
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 11: as they are targeting the border patrol. I mean it

816
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 11: feels like the rhetoric and the protesting is all ramping up.

817
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 11: What is your advice to the people right now who

818
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 11: are outraged that this is a second killing at the

819
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 11: hands of border patrol in two weeks.

820
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 12: As Christy said, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with

821
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 12: multiple magazines to any sort of protests that you want.

822
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 3: It's that simple.

823
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 12: You don't have that right to break the law and

824
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 12: incite violence. We will, of course always protect your First

825
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 12: Amendment speech and if you peacefully protest, there is absolutely

826
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 12: nothing wrong with that. But you have seen a trend here,

827
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 12: not just in Minnesota but across the country in these

828
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 12: protests turning into violent scenarios and people attacking law enforcement

829
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 12: that's when you go over the line, and that's when

830
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 12: law enforcement steps.

831
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: In, Janine, I mean again, you cannot bring a firearm

832
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: loaded with multiple magazines any sort of protests you want.

833
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: It's that simple. You don't have a right to break

834
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: the law. He in no way broke the law, and

835
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: in fact, we have an absolute right to do that.

836
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: Your reaction as a.

837
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 8: Lawyer, well, you do have a right to bring a

838
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 8: gun to a protest under the Second Amendment. The Supreme

839
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 8: Court actually recently affirmed that in a case called Bruin.

840
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 8: So I don't know what they're talking about. I mean,

841
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 8: a lot of right wing people brought guns to anti

842
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 8: COVID protests, and you know, nobody claimed then that you

843
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 8: couldn't bring a gun to a protest. I think what

844
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 8: they're trying to do is they and I saw this

845
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 8: during the last year when they were arresting people like

846
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 8: Mahmud Khalil, is they try to kind of blur the lines.

847
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 8: So they make statements like the protesters are violent and

848
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 8: so therefore it's okay that we shot him. Like each

849
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 8: situation has judged individually from a legal perspective. Mahmud Khalil

850
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 8: didn't do anything violent at all. The fact that other

851
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 8: people a protested it doesn't may have doesn't make him

852
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 8: responsible for that. And likewise, this guy clearly didn't pull

853
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 8: a gun on anybody. He was clearly not being violent,

854
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 8: So you can't sort of use the conduct of other

855
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 8: protesters to say that it was okay to shoot him.

856
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean one of the things we've seen, sorry, Ryan, go.

857
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 4: Ahead, good no, no, go ahead, because I'll follow up.

858
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 6: Well.

859
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to flag here is

860
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: also the immediate aftermath of this statement from Kercy Nome. Guys,

861
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: can we go ahead and roll B three where the

862
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: DHS secretary talks specifically about brandishing a weapon, which is

863
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: a legal term, that's waiving a gun threatening, that's actually

864
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: something it's a crime against federal law. But also trying

865
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: to pair it, like you're saying, with a violent action

866
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: of the intent of simply having a gun on your person,

867
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: which is an absolute right. Let's take a listen.

868
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 9: Did he brandish a gun and at what point did

869
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 9: law enforcement retrieve the gun and also the magazines from him?

870
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 7: Can you offer clarity on this individual showed up to

871
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 7: impede a law enforcement operation and assaulted our officers. They

872
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 7: responded according to their training and took action to defend

873
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 7: the officer's life and those of the public around him.

874
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 7: And I don't know of any peaceful protester that shows

875
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 7: up with a gun and ammunition rather than a sign.

876
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 7: This is a violent riot when you have someone showing

877
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 7: up with weapons and are using them to assault law

878
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 7: enforcement officers.

879
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you need this is something out of China

880
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: or out of Iran, or out of Israel or any

881
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: of these places where we've seen mass crackdown. Is that

882
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: the present is that mere having a weapon on your

883
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: person is an act of violence itself. This is literally

884
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: out of third world dictatorships, the same standard.

885
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, and they're asking us to ignore our own eyes

886
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 8: I mean, or I mean, and what we can see

887
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 8: clearly from the video, there's no he did not assault anyone.

888
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 8: Anybody can see that. Yes, Frankly, a lot of people

889
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 8: who defended the Rene Goods shooting, especially on the conservative

890
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 8: side of the political spectrum, are not defending this one.

891
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 8: I've seen a lot of people say that one might

892
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 8: have been okay, but this one, no.

893
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 3: What about it?

894
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: And it's not even about okay. It's like, look like

895
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: you said, you could see a case for the first

896
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: shot you could do, you not have to agree with it,

897
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: and you could get past case law. But on this

898
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: it's just completely world's apart different.

899
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 4: Go ahead, Ryan, Yeah, So, setting aside all the obvious

900
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 4: like blatant lies that she told there, what you often

901
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 4: hear from the administration is that these protesters are quote

902
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 4: unquote impeding that impeding law enforcement as they're carrying out

903
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 4: their kind of lawful enforcement duties. What is the law

904
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 4: around what protesters are allowed to do legally and when

905
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 4: does it cross into actual impeding. I think anybody who's

906
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 4: seen the video he's waving cars through, he's filming like,

907
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 4: there's no doesn't apply here. But so like outside of

908
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 4: this scenario, what could make it actually apply? Like if

909
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 4: you were talking to a client who asked you, like,

910
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 4: I want to go to a protest, how do I

911
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 4: make sure I'm within the law.

912
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 8: So there are two sort of separate analyzes. One is

913
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 8: impeding their enforcement operation, and that came into play in

914
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 8: the Rene Good shooting, where the argument was that she

915
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 8: was blocking them, so they had the right to arrest her.

916
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 8: Still doesn't give them the right to shoot her. That's

917
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 8: sort of a separate issue. But so if your activity

918
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 8: is substantially interfering with them enforcement operation, that might give

919
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 8: ice officers and grounds to arrestue because normally they don't

920
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 8: have the ability to enforce state law or you know,

921
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 8: they're really just there to enforce immigration and customs law.

922
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 8: So there is an exception if you are a US

923
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 8: citizen or otherwise lawfully in the country, but are impeding

924
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 8: their operation in a significant way. So I didn't think

925
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 8: that renee Goods rose to that level. But then there

926
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 8: are other laws about protesting, So you can't you know,

927
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 8: you can't block traffic. You can't even if that wasn't

928
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 8: impeding the law enforcement operation, just sort of standard things.

929
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 8: You can't harass people, you know, you can't kind of

930
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 8: break the normal laws that we observe in society if

931
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 8: you were Yeah, I mean you can't. Some of the vandalization,

932
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 8: for instance, that happened during the pro Palestine protests is

933
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 8: probably not defensive from a legal perspective, but none of

934
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 8: that gives them the right to shoot you. That's still

935
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 8: you know, but obviously that should only be used in

936
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 8: extraordinary circumstances where it's necessary to save someone's life.

937
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: Right you have final thing that I just have to

938
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: play here. You know, have our Treasury secretary again literally

939
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,959
Speaker 1: adopting the language of some of the most extreme gun

940
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: control activists I've ever seen. Guys, Can we go ahead

941
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 1: and roll B two and have Jani's reaction?

942
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 13: Okay about what's happened in Minneapolis. As a member of

943
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 13: the Trump cabinet, are you're concerned to see another American

944
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 13: citizen ends up dead shot by at all law enforcement?

945
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 10: Jonathan? It's a tragedy when anyone dies. But I can

946
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 10: tell you the situation on the ground there is being

947
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 10: stirred up by Governor Waltz. I was out there two

948
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 10: weeks ago. Governor Waltz for the client provide a security

949
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 10: detail for me to go into the Minnesota capital with

950
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 10: the state police. So he is fomenting He is fomenting

951
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 10: chaos because there is substantial waste brought in abuse. My

952
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 10: job as Treasury Secretary is to investigate that. And I

953
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 10: think that this chaos that is going out there, and again,

954
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 10: I am sorry that this gentleman is dead. But he

955
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 10: did bring a nine to milometer semi automatic weapon with

956
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 10: two cartridges to what was supposed to be a peaceful protest.

957
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 10: I think that there are a lot of paid educators

958
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 10: who are jetting things up, and the governor has not

959
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 10: done a good job at camping this down. Yeah.

960
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 13: I mean, as you know, he was an ICU nurse

961
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 13: work for the Veterans administration, and there's no evidence that

962
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 13: he brandished gun whatsoever.

963
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 10: The fact that he brought disarm before brought a gun.

964
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 10: Have you ever gone to a protest?

965
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 13: John, I mean, we do have a second amendum of

966
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 13: this country.

967
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 10: That Jonathan, have you ever gone to a protest? I mean,

968
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 10: have you gone to a protest?

969
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 13: I mean I've I know actually as a reporter recovering it.

970
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 10: Okay, I've been to a protest. Guess what. I didn't

971
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 10: bring a gun. I brought a billboard.

972
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 3: Wow.

973
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: I mean again, I mean, Janine, as you said, the

974
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: reasons I like talking to eu Genie is you can

975
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: you defended and fought back against a lot of the

976
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: in my opinion probably your opinion too, a lot of

977
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: the tyrannical stuff that surrounded COVID. You've talked specifically about

978
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: civil liberties, so you will remember a Genie as I do.

979
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: We have brains. We also saw many COVID protests one

980
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: in Michigan that I absolutely recall, in which people brought

981
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: guns even to the state capital. Of course, yes, the

982
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: gun control people were furious about it, but as you

983
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 1: and I both know, that is our right, and none

984
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: of them were arrested for doing so because it was

985
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: not a violation of the law.

986
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 8: Yeah. I mean, the hypocrisy is just off the charts,

987
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 8: and they're just, in my opinion, signaling to their base

988
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 8: that they don't they don't really have any principles, They

989
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 8: don't really care about civil liberties. This is just about

990
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 8: score and political points. I mean, I will say I

991
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 8: do agree with him on one point, which is that

992
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 8: there could be more done by Minnesota to sort of

993
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 8: diffuse the situation. And one thing I think they should

994
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 8: be doing is having a state law enforcement out there

995
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 8: to keep the ice officers in check. But because they

996
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 8: don't want to get involved at all, they're refusing to

997
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 8: do that, and so I think both sides are really

998
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 8: inflaming the situation. Of course, I'm not comparing, right, I'm

999
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 8: not comparing that too, because shooting people is just absolutely unacceptable,

1000
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 8: and running cover for that on the administration's part is

1001
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 8: just be on the pale.

1002
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and as and you know, I had a

1003
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: similar thought. I did hear from the Minneapolis p D

1004
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,760
Speaker 1: chief though. He made a point which is kind of relevant,

1005
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: is you got three thousand I say. He said, He's like,

1006
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 1: we only have six hundred sworn officers on our force.

1007
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: He's like, we literally can't do that, which is you know,

1008
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: I mean it's a fair point, right, I mean had

1009
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: I hadn't fully considered it, but I was like, yeah,

1010
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: I mean he's not wrong. Like if you have five

1011
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: to one ratio in the city, like, what can you

1012
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: do exactly?

1013
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe Mom, Donnie should send some NYPD's got what

1014
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 4: five six thousand people in force and there's only about

1015
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 4: a thousand that work at a time, Like that's funny.

1016
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 4: Last thing, you know, New York City can be like

1017
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 4: the Cuba, like helping helping other cities.

1018
00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 3: Helping melans.

1019
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: Last thing I did want to ask you about, which

1020
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: was a hot topic before all of this shooting, is

1021
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put B five up here on

1022
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: the screen again. We would like your interpretation. There is

1023
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 1: an ICE memo which instructs officers to enter homes without

1024
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: a judge's warrant. The administration is arguing that they can

1025
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: enter a home based upon something called an administrative warrant.

1026
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: This is a bit confusing. Could you break it down

1027
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: for us and how extraordinary the situation is or.

1028
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 8: Is it right? So, an administrative warrant is not signed

1029
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 8: by a judge, which is a very important thing.

1030
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 10: You know.

1031
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 8: Typical search warrants or rest warrants are signed by a judge.

1032
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 8: The judge has signed off that the officers police officers

1033
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,959
Speaker 8: have shown that there's probable cause to conduct the search

1034
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 8: or to the arrest. An administrative warrent is signed in

1035
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 8: the immigration context by an ICE officer, So there's no

1036
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 8: checks and balances on that. It's just it's just the

1037
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 8: executive brands saying I have the right to do what

1038
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 8: I want.

1039
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: Can you explain that to like, an ICE officer can

1040
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: sign a warrant, Like, what does that mean? He can

1041
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: say I have probable cause under my own belief that

1042
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: I can go and arrest this person.

1043
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 8: For violations of immigration line. Yeah, it's actually a little

1044
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 8: known that immigration, the whole immigration system is within the

1045
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 8: executive branch. So immigration judges are not actually independent members

1046
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 8: of the judiciary. They are they're part of the executive

1047
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 8: part of DOJ and that's one reason they're, in my opinion,

1048
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 8: quite bad. They tend to just rubber stamp whatever the

1049
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 8: executive is, which makes it very important to have recourse

1050
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 8: to the federal court system, which unfortunately the Third Circuit

1051
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 8: just restricted in the Khalil case. But that's another story, Okay,

1052
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 8: I won't go there. So they're arguing that they can

1053
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 8: enter people's homes without a warrant in order to execute

1054
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 8: the administrative warrants, saying that you can remove this person

1055
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 8: because they're not lawfully in the country. That's just false.

1056
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 8: The Supreme Court has never said that. No court in

1057
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 8: the United States has ever said that. They've been citing

1058
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 8: this case from the Eighth Circuit called Lucas, where a

1059
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 8: prison inmate had escaped and was hiding in a home.

1060
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 8: They had the officers had information he was in a home,

1061
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 8: and they used an administrative warrant to enter the home.

1062
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 8: But that was kind of the warrant was almost besides

1063
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 8: the point, because there's something called the exigent circumstances doctrine

1064
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 8: where you can enter a home if you have if

1065
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 8: the police have information that there's an ongoing emergency, So

1066
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 8: like an example I've used is they have information there's

1067
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 8: a child being a missing child is in this house

1068
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 8: and being tortured. Okay, we can't like wait for a

1069
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 8: judge to get a warrant. Very very extraordinary circumstances and

1070
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 8: a dangerous prison in mad escaping would fall within that

1071
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 8: in my opinion. But just someone who's law not lawfully

1072
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 8: in the country being in a home doesn't come close

1073
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 8: to qualifying. That would just completely eviscerate this. You know,

1074
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 8: the exception would become the rule then. So this is

1075
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 8: a complete misapplication of the law and it's just simply wrong.

1076
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 8: And the conservatives, who mostly conservatives saying this on social

1077
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 8: media and other places, are just they're not being honest.

1078
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, uestions Ryan, all right, Janine, thank you so so

1079
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 1: much for joining us, for breaking all of this down.

1080
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: We've got Glenn Greenwald standing by, so let's get to

1081
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: him joining us now. Is a great friend of the show,

1082
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald, to further breakdown all of this insanity that's

1083
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: going on with ICE here in the United States. Glenn,

1084
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: it's good to see you. Thanks for joining us. Great

1085
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: to be with you, guys. I mean, the audience has

1086
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: wanted you to come on and just give me a

1087
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: good slap and education. And so here we go again. Audience,

1088
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: you're getting exactly what you want. Glenn, coming on my

1089
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: own show. Humiliate me.

1090
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 3: It's the only reason I come on. If you aren't here,

1091
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 3: that the abusive to you.

1092
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: It is really motivation, but it's edifying. It's edifying for me.

1093
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,879
Speaker 1: Perhaps that's me. But okay, let's go ahead and start

1094
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: very seriously with a new video Glenn that's making the

1095
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: rounds of an ice protester in Portland, Maine. She tells

1096
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: someone that she she's being told by an agent she's

1097
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: a domestic terrorist, and he said he's going to quote

1098
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: her to a nice little database. Let's take a listen

1099
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 1: to this video.

1100
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 3: It's not illegal to record exactly. Yeah, that's what we're doing.

1101
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, why you checking my information.

1102
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 3: Down because we have a nice little database.

1103
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 7: Oh good, And now you're domestic terrorists, so we're video

1104
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 7: tapping you.

1105
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 8: Are you crazy?

1106
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: Glenn? This seems to fit with the larger pattern now

1107
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: of a quote database being kept on American citizens, the

1108
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: labeling of domestic terrorism. This is a far encroachment here.

1109
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: Not only are civil liberties of the US surveillance state

1110
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: how do you see this in that broader context surrounding

1111
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: ICE in the entire situation happening right now. Yeah, I mean,

1112
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: if it were just that, you could dismiss it as

1113
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: kind of like a portly trained, unprofessional ICE agent kind

1114
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: of making a sardonic comment. But we're hearing exactly the

1115
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: same things from the highest levels of not just ICE

1116
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: and Home Obsecurity, but the Trump administration as well. We're

1117
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: hearing every time, for example, the last two times that

1118
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: ICE or border Security have killed an American citizen under

1119
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: extremely dubious and I would say murderous circumstances, the immediate

1120
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: response from people like Steven Miller and Christinome is to

1121
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:17,439
Speaker 1: label them domestic terrorists. They have clearly been instructed these

1122
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: ICE agents have to be far more aggressive to be

1123
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: less constrained. I don't think they're even trained in.

1124
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 14: Terms of constitutional legal constraints, but even if they had been,

1125
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 14: they're clearly being instructed to disregard those kind of be

1126
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 14: the kind of guys who get their hands dirty.

1127
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: They're all like new recruits.

1128
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 14: But then on top of this, you do have a

1129
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 14: concerted effort by the Trump administration. It's hardly new, of course,

1130
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 14: but it's really concerted to augment and to expand and

1131
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 14: to centralize in the hands of pallenteer this domestic security state,

1132
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 14: where surveillance state, where everybody has kind of a dossier,

1133
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 14: everybody's put into a database. If you even make a

1134
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 14: peep of dissent or protests, they feel justified in doing that.

1135
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 14: So it's clearly part of a larger not just eat

1136
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 14: those at the highest levels of our government, but also

1137
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 14: policy choices that are reflected in that agent's comments.

1138
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 4: And so Glenn, our civil liberties are obviously rooted, you

1139
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 4: know in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it's

1140
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 4: attached to it, but they really get their animating force

1141
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 4: by by our culture, our cultural acceptance of them to

1142
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 4: the extent that culturally we no longer you know, expect

1143
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 4: certain liberal certain civil liberties to be respected by the government.

1144
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 4: Then the government just surges right in and encroaches on

1145
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 4: those civil liberties. So can you talk about where we've

1146
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 4: come in the last say half century around the question

1147
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 4: of building databases and this type of surveillance, because I

1148
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 4: think some people would say, all right, well, you know,

1149
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 4: it's a government. If they want to make they want

1150
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 4: to make a list they can go ahead and make

1151
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 4: a list, but what is what are the rules about

1152
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 4: the government making lists related to American citizens?

1153
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a couple of things.

1154
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: You know.

1155
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 14: Obviously, this Snowden reporting was primarily motivated by the anger

1156
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 14: that not just Edward Snoden, but a lot of people

1157
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 14: inside the US Security State ended up harboring as a

1158
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 14: result of violating what had long been considered the great

1159
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 14: taboo of allowing this part of our government after World

1160
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 14: War Two, the US Security State to kind of take hold,

1161
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 14: to grow without any democratic accountability, without transparency, the understanding

1162
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 14: that it was dangerous, and the one rule that was

1163
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 14: supposed to constrain it in all circumstances was that whatever

1164
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 14: it is you're doing can't be turned inward, can't be

1165
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 14: turned domestically on the American citizen. R It's for adversary states,

1166
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 14: even for Allied states, but it can't be a security

1167
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 14: force that surveils our own people, that is intended to

1168
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 14: keep our own people in mind in a way that

1169
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 14: the Constitution was designed to prohibit. And of course that's

1170
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 14: exactly what was happening after nine to eleven. That led

1171
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 14: to people like Edward Stodan, but other people as well,

1172
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 14: like William Binney and a lot of other these whistleblowers

1173
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 14: from the US Security State to come forward and say,

1174
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 14: this is the one thing that we were supposed to

1175
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 14: never have, and there aren't really any rules around it.

1176
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 14: For a lot of different reasons, the courts have kind

1177
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 14: of deferred to the executive branch. Both parties succeeded in

1178
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 14: preventing any real legislative reform in the wake of the

1179
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 14: Snowden revelations, which allowed the security state domestically.

1180
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 3: To continue to grow.

1181
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 14: But you know, one thing I was thinking about actually

1182
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 14: this morning was the fact that I know, I was

1183
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 14: kind of pointing out the oddity of the right, the

1184
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 14: American rights suddenly cheering for and even demanding armed federal

1185
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 14: agents on the street. Because if we look at the

1186
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 14: politics of the nineteen nineties, of course Bill Clinton was president,

1187
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 14: then this kind of anti federal government strain was very

1188
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 14: dominant on the right in the wake of things like

1189
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 14: Randy Weaver and Waco and other things that if people

1190
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 14: aren't familiar with they should go back and read. And

1191
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 14: then it, you know, really occurred to me. A lot

1192
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 14: of them are saying, well, now it's different because we

1193
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 14: have these illegal aliens we have to deport.

1194
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 3: But it's always different.

1195
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 14: They authoritarians always find some pretact in the wake of

1196
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 14: nine to eleven, it was terrorism. Prior to that, it

1197
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 14: was communism. So you have generations of Americans now trained

1198
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 14: with the this authoritarian formula that unless you empower the

1199
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 14: federal government with these authoritarian powers that used to be

1200
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 14: unimaginable at least as we were taught to understand the

1201
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 14: United States, you're going to be endangered by a whole

1202
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 14: endless carousel of dangers that have really frightened the American

1203
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 14: people into accepting this kind of unconstitutional, constant erosion of

1204
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 14: civil liberties. Yeah, I mean, Glenn, you're you're making such

1205
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 14: an important point here, But the evolution of domestic terrorists

1206
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 14: seems to be probably the single biggest new invention of

1207
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 14: this second Trump administration. Let's put C two of Kirsty Nome,

1208
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 14: the DHS secretary, immediately talking about domestic terrorism in the

1209
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 14: context here of just bringing a gun to a protest,

1210
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 14: which again is completely legal.

1211
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

1212
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 12: The White House has labeled the man who was killed

1213
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 12: in Minnesota as a domestic terrorist.

1214
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 5: Is that something you agree with and have you seen

1215
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 5: any evidence to when.

1216
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 7: You perfatuate violence against a government because of ideological reasons

1217
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 7: and for reasons to resist and propet joint violence, that

1218
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 7: is the definition of domestic terrorism. This individual who came

1219
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 7: with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation

1220
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 7: of federal law enforcement officers committed an act of domestic terrorism.

1221
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: That's the facts. I mean, Glenn, you just mentioned Waco.

1222
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: This is a Waco event. For me, this is a

1223
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: Waco event. Like to go in and to murder somebody,

1224
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: to disarm him, and then immediately to come out, just

1225
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: as the Clinton administration did after they murdered those people

1226
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: at Waco and murdered Randy Weaver's wife, is they immediately

1227
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: came out afterwards and said, actually, the real problem is

1228
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: we have right wing domestic extremism. This seems to be

1229
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: the exact same playbook. But this time around, you're talking

1230
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 1: about palanteer, you're talking about databases, and perhaps most importantly,

1231
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, apparently you don't have any sort of pushback

1232
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: even within the so called coalition you know that rose

1233
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: up in many ways against allegedly against some of these

1234
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: same practices by the Biden administration.

1235
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1236
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 14: I was going to say, you know, this isn't unfortunately new,

1237
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 14: it's not new to the Trump second second term. I mean,

1238
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 14: one of the largest critiques I had in the Lake

1239
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 14: of January sixth was that a lot of Democrats and

1240
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 14: sort of the authoritarian list chaining types began talking about

1241
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 14: the January sixth event as this insurrectionary movement that required

1242
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 14: labeling the Trump movement a domestic terrorist at organization. There

1243
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 14: were attempts by people like Many Thompson, the chairman of

1244
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 14: the committee, to say that everyone at January sixth of

1245
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 14: the Capitol should be put on no fly lists, kind

1246
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 14: of this old school Pros nine to eleven War on

1247
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 14: Terror mentality but brought to our shores. As well as

1248
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 14: Adam Schiff who wanted to just amend the War on

1249
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 14: Terror laws about international domestic, international terrorist organization, to just

1250
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 14: amend it and say international or domestic terrorist organization. So

1251
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 14: in one fell swoop kind of applied the entire War

1252
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 14: on Terror standard to our soil.

1253
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 3: And this is why.

1254
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 14: I'm so amazed, sager to watch the American right that

1255
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 14: has never thrived well when this sort of mentality emerges,

1256
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 14: because under the Bide administration, the view of Home and

1257
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 14: security was the single largest threat to the United States

1258
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 14: is not al Kaieda, Isis or Russia, China, Iran. It's

1259
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 14: domestic white supremacy or domestic far right extremism.

1260
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 3: And this was the template for dealing.

1261
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 14: With it, you know, as centralized surveillance database, importing war

1262
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 14: and terror mentality and legislative powers to our soil. And

1263
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 14: now you're seeing people like Christy nom and Cash Btel

1264
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 14: and you know, Stephen Miller and jd Vance basically saying

1265
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 14: the same thing. And I just unfortunately, we're probably never

1266
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 14: going to get to the end of the cycle where

1267
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 14: people don't have the capacity to critique things as long

1268
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 14: as they perceive it's their side doing it.

1269
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 4: And I think that's really what we're seeing. Yeah, right,

1270
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 4: I think the only way we're going to get back

1271
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 4: to it. And I think later in the program we'll

1272
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 4: talk about Marjorie Taylor Green's response where she tried to

1273
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 4: get people to imagine, Okay, imagine that these are this

1274
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 4: is Biden's FBI, and they're going to execute an arrest

1275
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 4: warn against a Jay six protester, and there's somebody filming

1276
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 4: outside of that person's house, and they throw them person

1277
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 4: down to the ground and execute them. She's kind of

1278
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 4: screaming into a void. And one of the starkest examples

1279
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 4: of inconsistency and hypocrisy on this question came from our

1280
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 4: friend of the show, Matt Walsh, and you know, he

1281
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 4: wrote on I Guess X yesterday, quote an armed leftist

1282
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 4: went out with a gun to deliberately interfere with legitimate

1283
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 4: law law enforcement operations. And I'm seeing some quote conservatives

1284
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,959
Speaker 4: on this site claim that it might be ICE's fault

1285
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 4: that the guy is now dead. Insane, some of you

1286
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 4: people will never effing learn. I responded to him, saying

1287
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 4: that Walsh apparently is it cannot conceive of the idea

1288
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 4: of a principle that would apply ethically both to people

1289
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 4: he agrees with and also to people he disagrees with.

1290
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 4: You kind of had some thoughts on that too. I

1291
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:58,919
Speaker 4: wanted to see if you wanted to elaborate there.

1292
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 14: Well, it's funny with Marjorie Tailgreen and even your point.

1293
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 14: You know, back in my like rosy eyed, naive younger

1294
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 14: days as a journalist, I remember in the Bush years

1295
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 14: trying to tell conservatives imagine what's going to happen if

1296
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 14: someone like Hillary Clinton or John Carey has the power

1297
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 14: to order American citizens to be arrested with no charges

1298
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 14: and put on an island, or to be tortured, or

1299
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 14: to just ignore laws based on their say so that

1300
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 14: it's necessary for nouncial security. And nobody was interested in

1301
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 14: that hypothetical. They were like, no, we're fine, we don't

1302
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 14: think that's going to happen. And then when it does happen,

1303
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 14: they start screaming bloody murder, and Democrats turn around and

1304
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 14: endorse it. And you go through the same exercise, and

1305
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 14: I think that it's just an inability to not even

1306
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 14: just an inability, but like an unwillingness to look at

1307
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 14: things in a principled way, only looking at things through

1308
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 14: acquiring power. And I think, you know, going to the

1309
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 14: Matt Wall's point, it's just been so ironic to watch

1310
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 14: the American right that has been have been champions of

1311
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,439
Speaker 14: the Second Venment for so long, not just in terms

1312
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 14: of your right to have a gun in order to

1313
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 14: word off criminals, but also more so And there's a

1314
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk tweet from last year saying this, the real

1315
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 14: reason to have a gun, to have a second Amendment,

1316
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 14: is to be able to guard against tyrannical excesses via

1317
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 14: police state to guarded the citizenry against that. And now

1318
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 14: they're all talking about having a gun legally as some

1319
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 14: sort of inndition that you're probably a bad person who

1320
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 14: has some sort of ill intent. And that's something Cash

1321
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 14: Betel said and Christian Holman said, basically, you should be

1322
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 14: going to a protest armed. And it's like what all

1323
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 14: those right wing protests during COVID and Black Lives Matter

1324
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 14: all were ostentatiously armed to make the point that we

1325
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 14: are allowed to have guns in the United States, including

1326
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 14: we go to political protests. And you know, a lot

1327
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 14: of this, I do think Ryan is this kind of

1328
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 14: you know, need to show everybody how tough and strong

1329
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 14: they are by saying, yeah, we're gonna go in and

1330
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 14: we're gonna shoot you down. We're going to murder you

1331
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 14: without any kind of Christian compassion or empathy or concerned

1332
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 14: because we're in the middle of a war. And these

1333
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 14: are all people who never go to war, who never sacrificed,

1334
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 14: never take any resk people like Matt Walsh and you know,

1335
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 14: I was writing about this twenty years ago. These were

1336
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 14: like the Neoklon chickenhawks, like Jonah Goldberg was writing in

1337
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 14: two thousand and five, every ten years, we need to

1338
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 14: pick up some crappy country and throw it against the wall,

1339
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 14: just to show that we mean businesses. Like what crappy

1340
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 14: country or crappy anything are you Jonah Goldberg ever going

1341
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 14: to pick up? And because he knew he was such

1342
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 14: a weak and secure loser, he had to use this

1343
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,640
Speaker 14: like tough guy rhetoric and endorse these authoritarian policies. And

1344
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 14: I think Matt Walsh is just the kind of updated

1345
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 14: modern version of trying to show that you're a man

1346
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 14: by indicating how little regard you have for human life.

1347
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's beyond that. Also, Glenn, and even

1348
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 1: with Jonah, unfortunately, parents seems to have learned nothing. What's

1349
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: also galling, like you just said, or the hippocratical or

1350
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 1: hypocritical statements that these people are making. Who not even

1351
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, who in Marjorie Tailler Green's

1352
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 1: hypothetical scenario would have been screening voy would have encouraged

1353
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: people to take armed and to take to the streets

1354
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: to stand up, which, by the way, I think, you

1355
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 1: know Charlie's tweet is empirically correct. It's not just about

1356
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 1: self defense. That was the general intention of the Second Amendment,

1357
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: which I have always been strong support. That's why when

1358
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 1: I watch a guy like Alex Pretdi get gunned down

1359
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 1: in the street who did absolutely nothing wrong and then

1360
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,759
Speaker 1: the government labels him into domestic terrorists, this is Waco,

1361
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:23,759
Speaker 1: like this is Randy Weaver. This is literally the exact

1362
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 1: same thing. You've talked also, Glenn, about masks on federal agents.

1363
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: And I do want to give you the opportunity to

1364
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 1: talk about that as well. That's something that I had

1365
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: been feeling uncomfortable with. I heard their response is like, oh, well,

1366
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: we're worried about being docs, and I was like, well,

1367
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: you know, you are in a public position of power,

1368
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: and ultimately accountability of the state is like the bedrock

1369
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: of our system. So I do want to give you

1370
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:49,759
Speaker 1: the opportunity to speak.

1371
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 3: About that too. Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting.

1372
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 14: In the nineties there was some convergence of left and

1373
01:10:55,560 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 14: right around these concerns for the excesses of federal police power,

1374
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 14: both in Randy Weaver and Laco. The idea that the

1375
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 14: state considers you a little weird to have an ideology

1376
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 14: that they consider threatening, even though you haven't done anything,

1377
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 14: go lable to just like be incinerated in your house

1378
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 14: or have FBI come and shoot your wife and your

1379
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,799
Speaker 14: kid and your dog. And there was a very famous

1380
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 14: Gourvidal essay who was always on the left. Gorvidaal was

1381
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 14: where he got to know Timothy McVeigh and kind of

1382
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 14: wrote an essay not sympathetic to McVeigh personally, but to

1383
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 14: the idea that, yeah, we really this is a kind

1384
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 14: of tyranny, is having the federal government be able to

1385
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 14: come and do whatever you do, whatever it wants. And

1386
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 14: I think the idea that, you know, there's always this

1387
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 14: kind of contradiction right wing discourse, like either left wing

1388
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 14: men or you know, little soy boy weaklings who are

1389
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 14: more like girls who don't really understand the virtues of

1390
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 14: masculine courage the way Matt Walsh does because of how

1391
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 14: he dresses in the studio. Or there are you know,

1392
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 14: people like Alex Pretty who actually do courageously go into

1393
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 14: the street knowing that there's risk. Watching two weeks after

1394
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 14: Ice murdered a woman in his city in Minneapolis, and

1395
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 14: these people are confronting Ice because they believe that they're

1396
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 14: engaging in abuse of power. These are the kind of

1397
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 14: citizens we want. He's legally armed, he's going to a

1398
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 14: protest to defend and believe in his cause. And I

1399
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,839
Speaker 14: do think he shames a lot of the people who

1400
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 14: want to believe that they represent those values, but really

1401
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 14: are too cowardly to do so. And as for mask

1402
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 14: I mean, this is the kind of thing that is

1403
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,679
Speaker 14: the stuff of dystopian terror. Like, one of the ways

1404
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 14: that we keep armed agents of the state accountable is

1405
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 14: that they're subject to certain roles and constraints, and if

1406
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 14: they transgress those rules and constraints, they're liable to be

1407
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 14: prosecuted or to have other discipline.

1408
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 3: But when they're masked, it takes away a major.

1409
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 14: Part of that accountability, especially when the federal government is

1410
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 14: refusing to allow states and cities to investigate crimes by

1411
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 14: them in their jurisdictions. That is something we should not

1412
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 14: want in the United States. Doesn't matter what your ideology is,

1413
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,600
Speaker 14: your viewsed on deportation, or anything else, we should not

1414
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,719
Speaker 14: want masked agents of the state ring our street, snatching

1415
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 14: people out the street in plane mark vehicles or plane

1416
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 14: mark clothes, or using force without being able to identify them.

1417
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the weapons came into the Randy Weaver situation too.

1418
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 4: People should go back and kind of read that because

1419
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 4: it's such a kind of seminal moment in the nineties.

1420
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 4: The federal warrant that the FBI, or actually I guess

1421
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 4: it was the marshals were trying to enforce on his

1422
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 4: you know, little compound out of Ruby.

1423
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 3: Ridge was four.

1424
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 4: He apparently he's like sought off a shotgun for somebody period.

1425
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 1: Which they asked him to.

1426
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 4: It was a total entrapment, total entrapment. So they so

1427
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 4: even like the basis for which they were coming on

1428
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 4: to his property was related to entrapment and a Second

1429
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 4: Amendment issue as well. And then they shoot and kill

1430
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 4: his fourteen his dog, and then the fourteen year old

1431
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 4: kid gets upset about that, and they shoot and kill him,

1432
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 4: and you get the standoff that leads to his wife

1433
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 4: being killed as well. And to have that as the

1434
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 4: legacy of the of the nineties lead into this, well, man,

1435
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 4: you know, maybe you shouldn't have sold a sought off

1436
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 4: shotgun to a federal agent, right then this one happen.

1437
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:10,599
Speaker 1: That was the defense by the way of the time,

1438
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: That was literally the defense for.

1439
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,679
Speaker 14: Exactly exactly and not only that, but like that also

1440
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 14: then is what led to the First War over privacy

1441
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 14: on the Internet. The Internet was only emerging in its

1442
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 14: incipient stages then, and that was when Bill Clinton and

1443
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:26,640
Speaker 14: the Clinton administration were demanding backdoor to Internet encryption on

1444
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 14: the grounds that they have to surveil domestically, like the

1445
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 14: anti government militias that arose in the wake of things

1446
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 14: like Waco and Randy Ridge to Ruby redsh to protest

1447
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 14: against government accesses. And you have these authoritarians like Bill

1448
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,679
Speaker 14: Clinton and the Clinton administrations like, now, we need backdoors

1449
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,600
Speaker 14: into the Internet to monitor everybody. And the view of

1450
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 14: the American right was we're not giving up privacy and

1451
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 14: allowing the federal government to become these you know, sprawling, polite,

1452
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 14: standing armies, because they're going to crush our liberties. And

1453
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 14: now twenty years later, it's the American right not only

1454
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:00,600
Speaker 14: cheering it but demanding it based on exactly the same mentality.

1455
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 3: They just don't realize it.

1456
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 4: Alex Jones, for some reason is the most disappointing to me.

1457
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:07,959
Speaker 4: I agree to see.

1458
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 3: Him out there.

1459
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 4: Everything he warned about is now like coming to fruition,

1460
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 4: and he's out there alongside it, cheering it on.

1461
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 3: Cheering it, demanding it.

1462
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:22,679
Speaker 4: I know, it's amazing, disgusting. It's so disgusting.

1463
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 1: Glenn, as always, thank you so much for joining us,

1464
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 1: for breaking into it down. Good to be you guys,

1465
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: value now more than ever.