1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Hi. Before we get started, I wanted to give you 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: a heads up that this episode contains brief mentions of trauma, abuse, 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: and suicide. I want to ask you if Fred Rogers 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: were here today and you could sit down with him, 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: and he sat across from you and said, Hi, Actually, 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: it's nice to meet you. I'm Fred. I want to 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: know what you would ask him. I mean, it wouldn't 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: be one question. I would want to sit and listen 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: to Fred Rogers talk about the people who he's loved 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: in his life. I think there's so much to learn 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: from listening to people talk about the people who make 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: them feel a certain way. This is Ashley c Ford 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: in our first episode. I talked to her about a 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: very bad day, a bathtub and rediscovering Mr Rogers as 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: an adult. I would love, love, love for him to 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: talk to me about his love of his wife, his 17 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: love of close friends, of pen pals, how he appreciated 18 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: the parts of them that you know, it's not just 19 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: set them apart, but gave them joy. I feel like 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: Mr Rogers never really needed anybody to to be different. 21 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: In an interesting way, he understood that we are fascinating 22 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: creatures all our own and there are people who when 23 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: they speak of passion, when they speak of themselves at 24 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: their best, you learn so much about what happiness can 25 00:01:52,680 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: create in a person. It's so beautiful and it's so wonderful. 26 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: And I think that very few people appreciated and respected 27 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: the concept of love like Fred Rogers. There's so many 28 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: things to know and to wonder about in this world, 29 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: and there's so many people who want to show and 30 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: tell you all they can, people who want to help 31 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: you to learn and to be brave and strong and 32 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: interesting and loving. That's the best part of living, loving, 33 00:02:42,720 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: and I love being with you. I'm carved a Wallace 34 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about Fred Rogers 35 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: from Fatherly and I Heart Media in partnership with Transmitter Media. 36 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: We spoke to Ashley Seaford in our first episode because 37 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: she reminded us that as adults, it's possible to return 38 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: to Mr Rogers and feel affirmed and accepted. But then 39 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: she also took time to consider what Fred might have 40 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: been asking of her as a small child, and might 41 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: still be asking of her now. I've been following her example, 42 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: wrestling with what grown up things there are to learn 43 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: from this children's entertainer for a long time, I've been 44 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: trying to talk about feelings in a serious way, and 45 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: I think at times I've been dismissed because of that 46 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: and definitely thought of as soft or lacking and intelligence. 47 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: And I think that what Mr Rogers in the Cultural 48 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: Conversation is doing right now is offering a lot of 49 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: people a chance to reparent themselves in one way or 50 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: another by listening and realizing that while their feelings aren't facts, 51 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: their feelings are powerful, and feelings change things whether or 52 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: not we want them to. And we're not going to 53 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: solve anything, change anything, um progress on some of the 54 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: issues we want to progress on if we continue to 55 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: act as if emotions and feelings are not having real 56 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: consequences in our society and in our culture and in 57 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: our everyday lives. We define love differently all across this country. 58 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: Like for me, love includes accountability. There's no such thing 59 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: as love without accountability. And some people think of love 60 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: as active and some people think of love as a 61 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: nothing emotion. Like what what could love possibly add to 62 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: this conversation? What could love possibly help in these trying times? 63 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: We aren't talking about what love means, and we are 64 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: acting like figuring that out isn't a worthy conversation, and 65 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: we're going to pay for it, And so the idea 66 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: that love would be useless. Right now, I'm like, oh no, oh, no, 67 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: Love changes everything. For a long time, I thought love 68 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: was just a stronger version of like. But Fred said 69 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: love is an active noun, like the words struggle. To 70 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: love someone, he says, is to strive to accept that 71 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: person exactly the way he or she is to accept 72 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: ourselves as we are right here and now. That has 73 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: nothing to do with liking people. It's about something else, 74 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: something requiring time and patience and quiet, things that may 75 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: seem hard to come by today. Time and patience and 76 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: quiet seem especially lacking in the place where many of 77 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: us do most of our noisemaking. Online. The Internet is 78 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: a kind of manic modern neighborhood where outrage changes to laughter, 79 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: changes to vanity, all in a few seconds and seemingly 80 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: out of our own control. That's when I start feeling 81 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: like a video game and somebody else has the joystick, 82 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: And in that case, all the people on my timeline 83 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: have the joystick, and I'm letting them move me in 84 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: different directions, and I've lost the plot. I've lost control, 85 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: and I don't like to feel that way. I was 86 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: talking to my therapists in the early stages of making 87 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: this show and thinking out loud about what makes Fred 88 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: Rogers interesting and important today, and she stopped me and 89 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: she said, the thing I've always thought about him is 90 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: that he leads with self. This, of course, made no 91 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: sense to me. So she broke out the markers in 92 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: the paper and she drew a big circle, and on 93 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: the outside of the circle, she labeled all of these selves, 94 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: these roles that we take on when we interact with 95 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: the world. That protect herself, who makes sure that nobody 96 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: is hurting me or my family, The self that needs 97 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: to prove its worth, the fearful self, the prideful self, 98 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: the needy self. She wrote all these selves around the circle, 99 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: and I pointed to the empty center of it, and 100 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: I said, so, then, what's that? And she said, that 101 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: is what we are. That isn't anger or fear or 102 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: shame or worthlessness or a loneness. That is the true self. 103 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: And when I watched Mr Rogers, it's clear that this 104 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: person has done the work necessary to lead primarily with 105 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: that self. The other parts are there, but there in 106 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: the back seat he can be in dialogue with them, 107 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: but they don't run the show, or, as Ashley would say, 108 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: it's the true self that has the joystick. I recently 109 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: went and saw Celene Dion perform UH in concert, and 110 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: one of the first songs she sings is the Power 111 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: of Love. Now, I remember when it came out. I 112 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: used to go all nights skating with my cousins and 113 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: my brother at roller Dome South in Fort Wayne, Indiana. 114 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: And when I was a kid at all night skate 115 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: rolling around the skating rink, and the Power of Love 116 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: would come on right to skate two, and I would 117 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: just throw my hands back behind me and skate as 118 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: quickly as I could. And there's that part that she 119 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: gets to, you know that, because I'm y'allt and I 120 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: when she would get to that part, that's when I 121 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: would stop skating, and I would just let the momentum 122 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: of my body push me forward with my arms back 123 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: and my eyes closed, singing at the top of my lungs. 124 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: And the DJ would get on the microphone and would say, 125 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: Ashley Ford, once again, this is a couple's skate, and 126 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: I could not care. I was going to skate to 127 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: that song. I feel like the person I was in 128 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: that moment was and is my core self. I feel 129 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: like there was this deep understanding of myself in that 130 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: time of what I wanted, what I valued, how to 131 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: just feel my body and enjoy it for what it 132 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: was doing, for the movement, for the fun, how to 133 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: like dream about big love and what love could be like, 134 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: and be surrounded by people and still feel like I 135 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: was my own and I couldn't care what they thought 136 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: about me. I couldn't care if I was going to 137 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: be in trouble. All I could think was who I 138 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: am right now is like good, Like this is good. 139 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: And it wasn't good because I was doing anything for 140 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: anybody else, And it wasn't good because I was trying 141 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: to be anything else. It's about a way of being 142 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: and putting myself at the center, not because everybody else 143 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: should put me at the center, but just because I 144 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: am worthy of being at the center of myself. I'm 145 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: glad I'm the way I am. I think I'm fine. 146 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm the way I am. The pleasure's mine. 147 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: It's good that I look the way I should. Wouldn't 148 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: change now if I could, because I'm happy to be me. 149 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: Aren't there times that you feel that way that you're 150 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: just glad you're the way you are? Good for you 151 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: if you know those times, yes, sir, I'm proud of it. 152 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:05,239 Speaker 1: When you can feel that way. Ye. Hope for ourselves 153 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: and hope for our relationships our communities depends on our 154 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: ability to find our center, to stay in touch with it, 155 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: and to act from it. Fred Rogers spent his life 156 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: creating television for children that was shaped in part by 157 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: this new understanding of what we need in order to flourish. 158 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: Mr rogers Neighborhood was less about learning a B c 159 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: S and more about sorting through and managing the enormous 160 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: feelings that move through you as you grow and Actuley 161 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: says he did that by making time and space for 162 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: the little feelings, just listening to them, and that is 163 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: something a lot of us have forgotten. The problem is 164 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: is that we think the extreme feelings are the only 165 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: feelings that should motivate action, and I think think that 166 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: we have to stop relying on the idea that certain 167 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: feelings will compel us to act a certain way, and 168 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: instead notice our feelings, no matter how mild they are, 169 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: and choose to do something with them. And I think, 170 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately what we've done is encouraged a real lack of 171 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: imagination for what can be done when you feel something 172 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: that is not as strong. I think it's a lack 173 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: of imagination. The first time we talked, one of the 174 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: questions that people seem to really respond to is and 175 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: want to ask you what do you do with the 176 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: mad that you feel? And in this conversation, we've talked 177 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: less about mad and more about love, And so I'm 178 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: going to ask you what some may think is the 179 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: inverse of that question, though I don't know that it is, 180 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: what do you do with the love that you feel? 181 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: I keep what I need and I spend the rest, 182 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: and there's always more. It's it's abundant. I I'd like 183 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: to honor people and love people with my presence and 184 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: with being president with them, because not enough of us 185 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: get that, and I'm good at that. And if that's 186 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: the gift I got to give, then that's what y'all 187 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: gonna get. Hi. My name is Risa and I've never 188 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: called it for a show before, but I was fired 189 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: by you guys. We asked you you who've been listening 190 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: to share stories about people who showed you how to 191 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: be helpers. But that's really a question about love too. Hi, 192 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: mom saw that we each walk around with a bokay 193 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: of flowers and walk down the street. If somebody says 194 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: hied you with smiles and there giving you a flower, 195 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: and you have a choice. You can smile back and 196 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: say hi, give them a flower back, or you going 197 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: to take their flower of human And so the trick 198 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: is to keep your okay healthy. And so if you're 199 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: always giving away your flowers and not accepting other people's 200 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: flowers and return, you're going to run out of flowers. 201 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: Whereas if you're always accepting other people's flowers but you're 202 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: not getting out yours, and you're gonna find them with 203 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: a little huge out of sorts. Okay, So to tricking, 204 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: you know, to find that balance. More stories from you 205 00:15:38,720 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: After a quick break, h Ashley says she takes the 206 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: love she needs and gives the rest away. That feels 207 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: most natural when we're giving it away to our family 208 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: or our friends. But when we give it away to strangers, 209 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: we're not doing it because we think we might get 210 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: something back. We may never even see them again. We're 211 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: doing it because we to be good neighbors, high carvel. 212 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: My name is Benny Delgado. What a profound question. Who 213 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: taught me what it means to be a helper? And 214 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, I distinctly remember my mother. We were driving 215 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: down the road. It was snowing. It was really cold 216 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: that day, and we're coming down a busy street and 217 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: there was a mother and her children that were walking 218 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: against the wind with the snow hitting them and carrying 219 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: bags of groceries and uh and immediately she pulled over, 220 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: rolled down the window and offered to give these people 221 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: a ride. And immediately she asked us to move over. 222 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: There was several kids and the mother. Mother got in 223 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: the front seat and we all squished into the back. 224 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: She got out, help get the groceries and its the 225 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: trunk of a car and took them to wherever they 226 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: were going, way past our house. And you know that 227 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: that memory is ingrained in my mind. Hello, my name 228 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: is Justin sweeton Um from Texas and two thousand and sixteen, 229 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: I was homeless and on drugs and needed to make 230 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: a change in my life. So I walked to uh Conro, Texas, 231 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: met a man there by the name of Luke Reatas. 232 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: He invited me into the men's transitional home called the 233 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: Freedom House. He basically just instructed me on good ethics 234 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: through the lens of Christianity. A few months into the program, 235 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: the guy who was running the Corner House of Prayer, 236 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: he was stepping down after seven years. I just felt 237 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: the urge and I wanted to step into that position, 238 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: and I wanted to be a part of this, this 239 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: community to help homeless people get back on their feet. 240 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: And uh Luke was absolutely on board with it. He 241 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: gave me a key to the church. He gave me 242 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: basically all authority over the place. You know, somebody who 243 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: had only been sober for a few months. And for 244 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: the next two years I impacted people's lives like I 245 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't believe, you know. I went from someone who was 246 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: in search of help to suddenly giving help. It was 247 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: the most important two years of my life. Ki grovel Um. 248 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: When I was in the third grade, I was a 249 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: painfully awkward kid and had glasses and I had a 250 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: big backpack, and I got picked on a lot by 251 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: this one girl in particular. I was just I was 252 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: so afraid of her. And I had this teacher, Mr. Lebron, 253 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: who paired us together. We had a writing assignment and 254 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: he said, she needs some help, and I think you 255 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: would be really good at helping her with this writing assignment, 256 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: and you need some help with your presentation because you're 257 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 1: not good at speaking up. And she's really brave and 258 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: really strong, and it it changed my whole life. I 259 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: became friends with this girl. We realized that we needed 260 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: each other. She taught me how to speak up for 261 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: myself and how to not take bullying from other people. 262 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: And it helps me relate to people that I wouldn't 263 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: otherwise relate to. And I just mister Brown, if you're 264 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: out there, I think value all the time, and thank 265 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: you so much. When I was in my twenties, I 266 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: went through a crippling depression. It was as if all 267 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: the unprocessed trauma from my childhood just showed up on 268 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: my door one day and moved in my apartment. I 269 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: began to feel like it would maybe be better if 270 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: I didn't bother being alive at all. I didn't think 271 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: I had a lot of value to the world. I 272 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: didn't think that I was equipped to deal with life. 273 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: My closest friend at the time, I saw my struggle 274 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: and gifted me a pass to this African American meditation 275 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: retreat in northern California. It seemed random at the time, 276 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: but I had nothing else to lose. On the way up, 277 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: I volunteered to pick up one of the meditation teachers 278 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: who was flying in from New York. I had always 279 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: been told that when in pain, just find one simple 280 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: act of service that you can manage and do it. 281 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: The teacher I picked up that day was the Reverend 282 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: Angel Kyoto Williams. She was the first real Zen Buddhist 283 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: I ever met, and she was nothing like the movies 284 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: told me and ordained Zen practitioner would be. She was 285 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: black and queer and have the no non since demeanor 286 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: of a born and raised New Yorker. And when I 287 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: attended her Dharma talks, I was mesmerized. Here she was 288 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: talking about a liberation beyond liberation. She talked about love 289 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: as a form of practice, resistance to oppression as a 290 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: spiritual calling. She talked about meditation and quiet as a 291 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: path toward the full realization of the self. I didn't 292 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: understand all of it, but I trusted it. Something about 293 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: a woman who grew up in Queens teaching me love 294 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: and understanding just hit me. We became friends, and over 295 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: the years I sometimes have practiced with her often and 296 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: sometimes not so often. But the way she has looked 297 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: at me and seen me and loved me, it did 298 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: for me what Fred Rogers did for me. It gave 299 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: me this very quiet, very subtle sense that I have value, 300 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: that I matter just as I am. In some way, 301 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: Angel might have saved my life. She's written some books, 302 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: including Being Black and Then In the Art of Fearlessness 303 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: and Grace and Radical Dharma, Talking Love, Race and Liberation. 304 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: She's the founder of the Center of Transformative Change in 305 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: the Spiritual director of the meditation based New Dharma Community. 306 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: As long as I've known her, her work has been 307 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: about freedom, freedom from oppression, freedom from anger and hate, 308 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: freedom from suffering, freedom for all of us. I could 309 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: not talk about the work that Fred Rogers did without 310 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: talking to the person I know who most directly aligns 311 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: with Fred's philosophy, even though she came from a very 312 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: different place than Fred did. Angel was a young activist 313 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: in New York City. She knows confrontation, so I asked 314 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: her how she managed to overcome the year and anger 315 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: that can come with that. She told me a story 316 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: about what it was like to return to New York 317 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: after years of practice in California. I got off at 318 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: Penn Station, as one as one does, and I left 319 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:22,239 Speaker 1: the relative space of being on the train and I 320 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: entered into the sea of people that is the life 321 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: of New York. And in that moment, like I felt 322 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: this release of like, oh so good. And it became 323 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: super clear to me in that moment that what happens 324 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: in that space of confrontation is you can see it 325 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: as confrontation with all of these other people, but if 326 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: you're open to it, you recognize that it's actually what 327 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: it is as a conference tation or a meeting with yourself. Hmm. 328 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: And when it's a meeting with yourself, then all of 329 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: it is profound. Every single person, every single person is 330 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: a meeting with yourself like velcro, right, it's like if 331 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: there's nothing to rub, it just all like smooths by. 332 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: But if you've got a little like stickiness there, it's 333 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: like a little you know, then people's hooks get on 334 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: that your that those fuzzy like gnarly places in you, 335 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: and so then it's an opportunity instead of you know, 336 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: you're in my way, you get right. It wasn't that. 337 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: It was it was this like, oh yeah, oh there, 338 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: I am, oh right, it's like and and that that 339 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: was very very clear. Remember you once described sitting meditation 340 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: as a kind of curiosity, and that really struck me. 341 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: I remember right after you profound a profound curiosity. I 342 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: remember sitting after that at this retreat with that in 343 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 1: my head, and it was kind of hot and there 344 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: was a like a beat of sweat was just down 345 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: my face, and I was really annoyed by it. And 346 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 1: it was this embodiment of something that I felt like, 347 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: I think I know what she's talking about, what it 348 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: means to just sit and be curious as opposed to 349 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: constantly trying to manage and control. But but again I wonder, 350 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: I wonder, like, okay, so I just I say people 351 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: to people in the podcast, all right, everyone being curious, 352 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: domag and control, thank you, goodnight? And then what keeps 353 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: people from going off and doing that? In other words, 354 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: how does one it's one thing to know something and 355 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: a different thing to live it and embody it. How 356 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: do you cross that gap? I think you, I mean, 357 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: I think that's where practice comes in, right, we practice 358 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: our way into contact with reality, a more truer reality, 359 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: until it is familiar enough to us that we recognize 360 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: the other thing is false, so that a bead of 361 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: sweat is just a bead of sweat. It doesn't have 362 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: to be an annoyance. It could first just be a feeling. 363 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: Angel practices meditation in the neighborhood. Fred helped kids get 364 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: there by showing them how to slow down and get quiet. 365 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: There were long pauses on the show and moments when 366 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: Fred would ask us to stop and reflect on a 367 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: song or an image or just breathe. That kind of 368 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: slowing down becomes really useful when we're hurt or overwhelmed, 369 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: when someone makes us angry, that's when we really need 370 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: to understand our motions to be able to get space 371 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: from them. My practice is having the space right, carving 372 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: the space out, and I mean just is a monumental 373 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: feat in a world that is like constantly moving, and 374 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: it moves maybe I would say about three four times 375 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: as fast as it did when I was younger and 376 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: entered into this practice. Just the mental commitment to carve 377 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: that kind of space out in a in a society 378 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: that's so much about doing to say, like I'm not 379 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: gonna actually be doing anything. I'm not going to be 380 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: accomplished anything or producing anything. And I think as a 381 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: as a black person in particular, it frees me from 382 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: the notion that I am defined by what I'm producing 383 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: and for people that were brought to this land to 384 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: to produce and have in so many ways organized ourselves 385 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: and many of the campaigns organized for us by our 386 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: leaders no shame or blame, but have been organized around 387 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: our our our value in relationship to producing things. Uh. 388 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: And I'm fond of saying these days. You know, I'm like, 389 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: get us jobs, Like I mean, we have worked all 390 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: we have, need to work for the next We don't. 391 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: You know, we don't. You don't need to teach us 392 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: how to work job skills. That's it, Like, that's a 393 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: that's an oxy moron. Like our evidence of our job 394 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: skills is this country. That's the man. They're not ready 395 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: for this one, they're not ready for this conversation. So um. 396 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: And so what I saw is these very particular opportunities 397 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: to be a fugitive from this construct. So I think 398 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: it's really it's it's really profound that just the act 399 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: of the choosing of the silence, and and I get 400 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: to defy some things. And I think what we're talking 401 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: about is defying. Yes, we are talking about defying, I mean, 402 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: and that is the thing I mean, they're Defiance is 403 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: a really great word to bring into this conversation because 404 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: I feel like when I'm talking about the power of 405 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: someone representing love in the way that Fred Rogers represented it, 406 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: and the way that that love, the way Fred Rogers 407 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: said to kids, you matter in a way that maybe 408 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: no one else in that kid's life was telling them. 409 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: It's tempting to think of that as a kind of 410 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: affirmation and a kind of and that's what's that's what's 411 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: made fun of when we make fun of Fred Rogers. 412 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: But the more I think about it, the more I 413 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: think of it as an act of denial, an act 414 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: of resistance, denying this what he saw encroaching on kids 415 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: and what then proceeded to over the next because he 416 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: started in nine, so the world was similar in some 417 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: ways but wildly different in other ways, and that he 418 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: wanted to deny this. What he saw was this encroaching 419 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: idea that your value was only based on how how 420 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: much you please people, or how much people like you 421 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: or how much money you earn, or if you could 422 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: ap them all up, you can earn a lot of money. 423 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: Then people are pleased and they like you maybe get 424 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: that all together. But really, what Fred Rogers was talking about, 425 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: seen through certain lends, was a kind of resistance to 426 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: the to the momentum of our culture. And that's where 427 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: I think of him as like an incredibly strong person. No. 428 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: I think that his his his active resistance was fairly 429 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: um demonstrated and strong and persistent and you know all 430 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: of the things that make a warrior a warrior, right, 431 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: Like not a war monger, not a soldier, right, but 432 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: a warrior. What is that difference? Um, I think of 433 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: soldiers is following instructions, you know. I think as I 434 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: think of warriors in the heroic sense of warrior, as 435 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: people that are charged, right, They're charged with a cause. 436 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: I think the power and the potency of him, like 437 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: any true teacher of wisdom, is that he he was 438 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: talking to you each and every single time. And maybe 439 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: he would turn his attention and he would talk to 440 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: Mr mcpheeley or you know whoever else or you know, um, 441 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: but there were those times when he turned directly to 442 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: the camera and he spoke to you, he spoke to me, 443 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: and so that held ness, especially for those of us 444 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: that were made to feel as if the society wasn't 445 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: constructed for our sense of belonging unless we vied for 446 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: that belonging, unless we quote unquote earned that belonging to 447 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: have someone turned to you directly you and say, just 448 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: as you are, your loved, just as you are, exactly 449 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: as you are in this moment, not another moment, not 450 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: a moment to come, not a promised moment. Right even 451 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: even our religions were selling us on a promised moment 452 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: to come one day, and he was saying, no, right now, 453 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: like right this particular moment, which I think of, as 454 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, as Howard Thurman would say, is like the 455 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: religion of Jesus, not the religion about Jesus right doing 456 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: the work of Jesus. That was to like hold love 457 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: right there in the space. And you know, when we 458 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: say this word love, people are probably turning to their 459 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: warm fuzzy feelings and looking for that. And I'm not 460 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: talking about the warm fuzzy feelings. And if it generated 461 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: warm fuzzy feelings for you, great, but I think what 462 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: it generated from me is space, right, it's the space. 463 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: It was the space to be me. I didn't look 464 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: at Fred Rogerson go oh, my god, warm and fuzzy. 465 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 1: I love him, you know. In fact, I didn't think 466 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: much about him, and I think that that is the 467 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: most profound love is it to make me think about 468 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: him and how I felt about him. It made me 469 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: think about how it felt about me. How do you 470 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: feel about you? What is your value? How do you 471 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: even know? Above my desk at home, where I write this, 472 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: I have a small reminder that says you are enough. 473 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: I look at it all the time, not because I 474 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: believe it, but because I actually don't. I mean, I 475 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: am enough for what, for you, for the world, for me. 476 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: In my forty or five years, I've had a lot 477 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: of experiences, but maybe the most defining one is the 478 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,919 Speaker 1: experience of being shown in myrriad ways that I'm not enough, 479 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: that my life doesn't matter. Many people have had this 480 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: same experience. My mother and I were homeless for a time, 481 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,959 Speaker 1: often hungry. I was violently sexually assaulted at the age 482 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: of seven, and it wouldn't be the last time I 483 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: was called racial slurs by classmates and even occasionally by teachers. 484 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: I grew up to watch people who looked like me 485 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: beat and shot on television while unarmed, only to have 486 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: the justice system decide time and time and time again 487 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: that no wrong had been committed in the eyes of 488 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: the law. I've looked down the barrel of guns just 489 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: because people thought my mother and I didn't belong in 490 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: the neighborhood that we lived in. Am I enough? Do 491 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: I have value? Does my life really matter? I can 492 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: tell myself that it does, But what does it take 493 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: for me to believe it? Of course, not believing that 494 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: I am enough? It's not just a personal problem. It's 495 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 1: a collective one, because how can I believe in your 496 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: value if I don't even believe in my own In 497 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,479 Speaker 1: this life, people like me and maybe like you, we've 498 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: had to find our own value, our own worth. And 499 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: one voice, like the voice of Fred Rogers telling me 500 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: that I am enough is powerful and it is beautiful, 501 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,399 Speaker 1: and I want to believe it. I love believing it. 502 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: But his voice alone is not enough to undo an 503 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: entire history. I wish it was, but it's not. But 504 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: his example, the way he lived now, that has impact, 505 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: the way Reverend Angel lives, that has impact the people 506 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: in your lives that you've called to tell us about 507 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: that has impact. Fred Rogers lived his life in service 508 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: to something greater than himself. Let's call it love, and 509 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: not warm feelings. I like you a lot. Love, but 510 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: love in the way that Ashley defines it as action, 511 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: as accountability, Love in the way that Reverend Angel defines 512 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: it as space. Space to see others, to understand others. 513 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: This was not his only devotion, but it seemed to 514 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 1: be his primary devotion, and I don't think he could 515 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: have done this work without it. Fred was devoted and disciplined. 516 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: He swam every morning, He rose early and studied and 517 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: prayed and meditated on how he would be an active 518 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: force for good every day. A producer for his Showow 519 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: told us that each time he entered the TV studio 520 00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: he uttered a small prayer, Dear God, lets some part 521 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: of this be yours. He famously made sure that every 522 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: one of the hundreds of letters he received each week 523 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: was thoughtfully answered. His dedication was to loving us, accepting us, 524 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: showing up for us every day. For nine episodes forty years. 525 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: Through the television neighborhood he created, he showed us how 526 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: to love like that too. That was Fred Rogers way 527 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: of making the world better? So what is yours? There 528 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: is no one sentence I can say, or that Fred 529 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: Rogers can say that solves all of our problems. Our freedom, 530 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,439 Speaker 1: our love for ourselves, our care for one another does 531 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: not come overnight. It is something we build bit by bit, 532 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: one action at a time, maybe even one moment at 533 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: a time. But I do not have doubt. I believe 534 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: in your ability to imagine and live something better than 535 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: this because I'm learning to do it myself. I'm proud 536 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: of you. I'm grateful to you, and I love you. 537 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: Here's the sweater going into the closet. Here's the jacket 538 00:39:50,560 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: going on. Me hmm. There'll be the night time and 539 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: then I'll come the new day, and that's when you 540 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: and I will be together again. Thank you for listening 541 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: to Finding Fred. Our show is produced by Transmitter Media. 542 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,280 Speaker 1: The team is Dan O'Donnell, Jordan Bailey, and Maddie Foley. 543 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: Our editor is Sarah Nicks. The executive producer for Transmitter 544 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: Media is Gretta Cohne. Executive producers at Fatherly are Simon 545 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: Isaac's and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team at I 546 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: Heart Media. Special thanks to all of our guests. Many 547 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: thanks also to Fred Rogers Productions to show Negri into 548 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: the studio. Engineers at You See Berkeley. Extra special thanks 549 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: to Tim lie Barger who runs the site neighborhood archive 550 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: dot com. It's a listing of every song, every episode, 551 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: every character on Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. It's been an amazing 552 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: resource for our team. Rick Kwan makes the show sound beautiful. 553 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: Theme music is by Blue Dot Sessions and interstitial music 554 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: by Alison Layton Brown. That's it for our show. You 555 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: can come back and listen to all of our episodes 556 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: and tell your friends to do the same. I'm Carvil Wallace. 557 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening.