1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 2: Welcome to Dick It Happened Here, a podcast about things 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 2: falling apart and how to put them back together again. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: And I'm your host, Bia Wong. This is one of 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: the most acute places where everything is falling apart and 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: one of the most acute attempts to put it back 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: together again. We're just going to get right into it 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: with me to talk about a potential rent strike that 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: there is significant organization going on for right now in 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: Minneapolis as a reaction to the federal occupation. Is Tara Rogavier, 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: the director of the Tenant Union Federation. Tara, Welcome to 12 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: the show. 13 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Mia. 14 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 2: So okay, let's rewind a little bit. Can you talk 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 2: a bit about what the specific conditions of the occupation 16 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: and also just sort of the preoccupation world for tenants 17 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: got us to a point where there is potentially the 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: largest rent strike we've seen in a century being organized 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: right now. 20 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely so. 21 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 3: First of all, thank you so much for having me 22 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 3: and I am boarding live from the Twin Cities, where 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,199 Speaker 3: we've been in a really intense organizing drive now for 24 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 3: many weeks, and of course the people of the Twin 25 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: Cities have very ferociously fought back against this federal occupation 26 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: for nearly three months. But I appreciate your question because 27 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: I think actually to take us back a little bit 28 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 3: is critical to understand the circumstances we find ourselves in now. 29 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: So the first and most basic thing to say is 30 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: the rent is too damn high. Yep, people cannot afford 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: the rent in any corner of the country. You know, 32 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 3: It's been true for many years now that a person 33 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 3: earning minimum wage cannot afford a two bedroom apartment in 34 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: any American county, whether that's urban, suburban, or rural. And 35 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: as our rents go up, the conditions of our homes 36 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 3: get worse. So what we have taken as saying these 37 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 3: days is that we're paying higher rents than we've ever 38 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 3: paid for the worst conditions we've ever in. And I 39 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 3: know you know that as a tenant and as a 40 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 3: former tenant organizer, your goal, but so many of our 41 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: people are living this reality every day. And you know 42 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: I organize. I'm based in Missouri, and I helped to 43 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 3: found and organize with Casey Tenants, and increasingly we're organizing 44 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 3: tenants in places like Raytown, Missouri on the outskirts of 45 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: Kansas City, and the stakes are so high, and I 46 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 3: really want to make sure listeners are aware of this. 47 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: All of us are aware of it, but just to 48 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 3: put a fine point on it, when you get priced 49 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 3: out of a place like Chicago, you might end up 50 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 3: in a place like Kansas City. When you get priced 51 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: out of Kansas City, you might end up in a 52 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 3: place like Raytown, Missouri. When you get priced out of Raytown, Missouri, 53 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: there is no place else to go, and you're just 54 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 3: stuck renting from the landlords of last resort, the people 55 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: who are very keen to exactly how desperate the tenant 56 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: condition is today, and then they exploit that by keeping 57 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 3: us living in filth and hiking the rents at every turn. 58 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: So that's some of the content that brings us into 59 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 3: this moment, and that will be the context underlying every 60 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: crisis following this one. And I think that's a really 61 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 3: important thing to note, because the story I'm about to 62 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: tell you about what's going on here is then also 63 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: a story of possibility about what might go on in 64 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: every crisis that we encounter from this point on. So 65 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 3: we started organizing a tenant union, a twin cities wide 66 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: tenant union at the end of January, and the reason 67 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 3: for that is that the tenants of the twin cities 68 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 3: had essentially been organizing unions for the two months preceding 69 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: that as a way of fighting ice. 70 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: Every building has a group chat right now. 71 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 3: Every building has someone distributing whistles and zines so that 72 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: people get information about how to spot ice, what to do, 73 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 3: advice is there. People are organizing mutual aid to take 74 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 3: care of their neighbors. That is essentially the work of 75 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: a tenant union. 76 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: Yep. So all we've done in the. 77 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: Last couple of weeks is ads kind of structure and 78 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: formality to the way that tenants have already gotten organized 79 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: under this federal occupation. 80 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: Could I ask a quick question here about how how 81 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: the sort of citywide federation came together? Yeah, because that's 82 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 2: something I've seen attempted before. But it is pretty difficult. 83 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question, and I think this won't 84 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: surprise you that in a moment of crisis, Yeah, it's 85 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 3: actually easier than in other circumstances, unfortunately, to get people organized. 86 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 3: So a process that might have otherwise taken months to 87 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: sort of align all the various entities organizing tenants in 88 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 3: the Twin Cities took a matter of four and a 89 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 3: half days. 90 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: It's astonishing. 91 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the best I've ever seen anything like. 92 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 3: This move, right, And that's not to say it was easy, right. 93 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: It took a lot. And you know, it took a 94 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: lot from us as the Tenant Union Federation, but more 95 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 3: to the point, it took a lot from tenants here 96 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 3: who have been organizing in their own formations for many 97 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: months preceding this crisis. So there's a local organization we're 98 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 3: working with called Inqualinosunidos. They've been organizing for ten years 99 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 3: and they've a base of mostly Latino and Somali tenants 100 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: all across the city. Then there's a crew that's been 101 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 3: organizing in South Minneapolis, the South Minneapolis Tenants Union. Then 102 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 3: there's tenants to have been organizing in Saint Paul. Then 103 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 3: there's tenants to have been organizing autonomously in their properties 104 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 3: and forming tenant associations and marching on the landlord. So 105 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 3: what we tried to do as quickly as possible was 106 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: kind of assemble all of these forces and really focus 107 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 3: ourselves on the project of building something that was bigger 108 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 3: than some of its parts that could create the potential 109 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: for enduring power out of this moment. And the thing 110 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,559 Speaker 3: that we said in those four and a half days 111 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: of sprint as we tried to assemble this force is 112 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 3: the tenant Union is good for protection today and power tomorrow. 113 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 3: So this is just an experiment. We actually don't know 114 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: what's going to come of this, but it's an experiment 115 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 3: that I personally feel extremely invested in. 116 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I, like you, have. 117 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: Lived through many moments of uprising and activation in the 118 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: last several years, and unfortunately, more often than not, that 119 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: uprising and that activation eventually evaporates, and the tenant Union 120 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 3: offers one potential vehicle to hold some of that activation 121 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 3: into the future and to channel it into real and 122 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 3: enduring power. 123 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 124 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: There's another aspect of this before we get into what's 125 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: happening right now that I was really interested in, which 126 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: is how did the sort of connections and organizational bonds 127 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: with labor unions start happening? Because that's another really cool 128 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: feature of this that's pretty unique. 129 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally unprecedented, and even I, yeah, my mind's can 130 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: have blown right. A sort of contextual piece that's important 131 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: is that the people of Minnesota are built different. There's 132 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 3: a longstanding alignment partnership relationship among organized labor and between 133 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 3: labor and community organizations here that sort of doesn't have 134 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 3: a comparison anywhere else in the country. And I might 135 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: be speaking out of turn, but I've never seen anything 136 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: like this. I've never seen this depth of alignment among 137 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: organized labor, between labor and community, and so that context 138 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: is really important to understand because then I think in 139 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: this moment of crisis, labor is much more open to 140 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: a call from community groups and from tenants than they 141 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: might be in other types of situations. So, you know, 142 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: we really leaned on the local relationship and the depth 143 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: of relationship between groups like Inculinos Nidos and these like 144 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: labor tables that have existed. And you know, further important 145 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: context is like groups like i CiU Local twenty six. 146 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: We're leading the call for this general strike day on 147 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 3: January twenty third, and there was this incredible table of 148 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: labor leadership that came together to sort of lead that day. 149 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: Can you explain for our listeners, like when you're talking 150 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: about it like a labor table, can you explain what 151 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: that is? 152 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, essentially as far as I understand it. 153 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 3: There's just a really regular conversation that labor leaders are 154 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: having together and these days, I think more often than not, 155 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: it's not just labor, it's labor. And then they've pulled 156 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: in partners from community groups and tenant unions and some 157 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 3: of the resistance formations as well, and that also is remarkable, right, 158 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 3: I'm saying this as though it's just kind of like, 159 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 3: you know, fact of the matter. It's amazing that labor 160 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: leadership in a context like this is in touch enough 161 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 3: that they understand who's leading some of the decentralized autonomous 162 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 3: resistance work and is not only aware of that, but 163 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 3: them in to these kinds of war rooms that are 164 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: now existing, and they're talking on an almost daily basis 165 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 3: as far as I understand it, So the ask moved 166 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 3: pretty quickly. I think we brought a vision and a 167 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 3: strategy to some of the closest labor partners, and their 168 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 3: willingness to join in on the strike drive comes from 169 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 3: an intense clarity about the stakes for their members. 170 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Any of these unions include membership. 171 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: That cannot make the rent on March first, and so 172 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 3: they're not taking this lightly right, This is a big 173 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: risk They're sticking their necks out for something that is 174 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: a total moonshot. We don't know whether or not we're 175 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 3: going to be able to pull it off, but what 176 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 3: we know is we needed to try for some additional 177 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: leverage that we didn't have a couple days ago. 178 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: I'm astonished by effectively every part of this, because every 179 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: and every fourth thing you say is like, this is 180 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 2: the coolest thing I've ever seen. But yeah, how fast 181 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: this came together is astonishing. The willingness and speed with 182 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: which labor is mobilizing is sort of is astonishing, And yeah, 183 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 2: I don't know this is this is really cool. Yeah, 184 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: And I guess the next thing I wanted to ask 185 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: about outside of sort of the how did this organization 186 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: come together? Is what are the specific demands being made? 187 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's three main demands related to the strike drive. 188 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: One is ICE out, and a part of that that 189 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 3: I feel like you'll be interested in is ICE is in. 190 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 3: The federal government is pretending that the reason for the 191 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 3: invasion is economic. They're like, this is an economic intervention. 192 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 3: ICE is here to fix the economy by deporting a 193 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 3: bunch of people who are taking your jobs. Part of 194 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 3: what we're trying to do is highlight what is the reality, 195 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: which is that ice is bad for the economy. Ice 196 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 3: has devastated the economy. We're trying to heighten that contradiction 197 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: between what they say they're here to do and what 198 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: is actually occurring. And so we will demonstrate if we 199 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: authorize a strike, what actual economic disruption looks like if 200 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 3: tenants exercise their economic power. 201 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: So that's one thing, Ice out, Ice fully out. 202 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: There's all this talk about a drawdown now, but there's 203 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 3: still ICE agents here. 204 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: K napping people on a daily basis. 205 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 3: The second thing is a statewide eviction moratorium. And this 206 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 3: has been a demand for the last two and a 207 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 3: half nearly three months. The governor has not moved on it, 208 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 3: the state legislature has not moved on it. Eviction court 209 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 3: is running quote unquote as normal during a time there 210 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 3: are three thousand federal agents in Minneapolis, Pall. So demand 211 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: number two is end evictions, no evictions under federal occupation 212 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 3: and frankly not for a long time until something resembling 213 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 3: real recovery is possible. And then demand number three is 214 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: real rent relief, and they're real is important here because 215 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: it's not enough just to get tens of millions of 216 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 3: dollars that we would then be expected to apply for 217 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 3: and turn around and give to the landlord. So when 218 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: we say real rent relief, we mean tens of millions 219 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: of dollars that come with strings attached. If landlords benefit 220 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 3: from what is effectively a bailout because of how bad 221 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: ICE is for the economy, then they should be accountable 222 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: to a higher standard of tenant protections. So one ICE out, 223 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: two eviction moratorium, three rent relief. 224 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: These are fairly moderate demands, and they remind me a 225 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: lot of a series of both demands and also just 226 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 2: the way that policy works treating the initial parts of 227 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: the pandemic, where there was there were a lot of 228 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 2: in a lot of cases there actually were like moratoriums 229 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: that you know, we're never enforced as strictly as the 230 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 2: letter of what they said, but was a thing that 231 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: was implemented in conditions where suddenly people just literally couldn't 232 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: work because massive external force. 233 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: Totally. 234 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of what we're working with right now 235 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 3: is groundwork that was laid during the COVID nineteen eviction crisis, 236 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 3: or the early years of it. Right The bill that 237 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 3: we introduced in the state legislature this week is literally 238 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 3: modeled after the Rent and Mortgage Cancelation Act that we 239 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: wrote back in twenty twenty to try to get rents 240 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 3: and mortgage is canceled when people couldn't go to work 241 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 3: and couldn't leave the house because. 242 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: Of the pandemic. 243 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 3: And I think that's actually an important thing again to 244 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: keep in mind because crises like this will continue happening 245 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 3: under today's conditions. Right We're hurtling towards deep and encompassing authoritarianism, 246 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 3: there's escalating climate catastrophe. We're going to be in this 247 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 3: situation much more frequently and at higher degrees of stress. 248 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: Pretty much for the rest of our lives. 249 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: So it's good actually for us to start learning from 250 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: the work that we did five years ago and applying 251 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 3: it here to like borrow and steal from our past 252 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 3: selves to build from something rather than start from scratch. 253 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,239 Speaker 1: I wish we didn't live under these types. 254 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 3: Of you know, cascading crisis, but that's the situation we're in. 255 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: And I've been feeling. 256 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 3: So often in the last month that the only touch 257 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: point in my life I have to this moment is 258 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 3: the early months of the pandemic. 259 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that gets at the depth and 260 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: seriousness of the crisis in a way that I feel 261 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: like is not understood outside of Minneapolis. I mean, I think, 262 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: you know, like my connections, I'm from Chicago, my connections 263 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: in Chicago, there was a lot of that experience. But 264 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: even in Chicago it was kind of there were places 265 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: that were like that, and then you could go like 266 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: three neighborhoods over and everything was sort of operating normally 267 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 2: for the most part until the next sort of raids came, 268 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: and that I feel like, I don't know, it seems 269 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: to be listening to you talk about this that's been 270 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: the catalyzing force for all of us, that it is 271 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 2: just constant crisis everywhere. 272 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you're right that people outside of 273 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 3: the Twin Cities maybe don't understand the depths of the devastation. 274 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 3: But just to put a fine point on it, conservative 275 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: estimates show over forty seven million dollars and lost wages 276 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: among people who have not been safe to go to 277 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: work in the last three months. Yeah, forty seven million 278 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 3: dollars and lost wages. I just had a conversation with 279 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: a dad yesterday whose kids go to a school where 280 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 3: there are eighty families where the parents have not been 281 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 3: safe to go to work, they haven't been safe to 282 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: take their own children to school, and so the other 283 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: parents in the school have been organizing support around them 284 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: for the last two months, and they just did a 285 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 3: round of calls through all those families this week. 286 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: None of them can make March rent. 287 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 3: Right, So, even if we're living under a supposed draw down, 288 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 3: the crisis is still so alive. And I think that's 289 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 3: also why you see organized labor lining up alongside us 290 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 3: in this strip drive. They know, like Local twenty six 291 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 3: has two hundred members that cannot make the rent on 292 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: March first. So I think that that sort of like 293 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 3: economic side of this story is not really known, felt, 294 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 3: or understood outside of the Twin Cities right now, but 295 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: everyone here knows and feels it because they've turned their 296 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: lives inside out for the last three months to organize 297 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: you know, millions of dollars in mutual aid. 298 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: But here's the thing is, we. 299 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 3: Cannot go fundme our way out of this scale emergency. 300 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 3: It requires state intervention, and that's what we're calling for. 301 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: I want to come back to that the forty seven 302 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 2: million number for a second, because I think when we 303 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: hear numbers like that, we're used to hearing them in 304 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: the context of you know, state agencies or multi billion 305 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 2: dollar companies. And this is not that. This is not 306 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 2: a situation where these people have billions of dollars and 307 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: you're losing some fraction of that. This is something where 308 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: every single one of those dollars matters, so acutely, it's 309 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 2: not forty seven million dollars coming from Google. Is forty 310 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 2: seven million dollars coming from people like you, And that 311 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 2: is an unfathomable humanitarian crisis. 312 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a huge crisis and one that kind of 313 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 3: ludicrously the leaders at the state and city level have 314 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 3: suggested that everyday people should solve. Forty seven million dollars 315 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 3: for everyday people is enormous. You know, through extraordinary efforts, 316 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 3: the people of the Twin Cities have or is something 317 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 3: in the neighborhood of six million dollars in rental assistance 318 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: for their own neighbors, like mutual aid style. Forty seven 319 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 3: million dollars or fifty million dollars. Seventy five million dollars 320 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 3: is nothing for the state to figure out. Right at 321 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 3: the city level, there's you know, something to the tune 322 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 3: of sixty million dollar pot that's funded through sales taxes 323 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 3: that goes into the maintenance of the downtown infrastructure. They 324 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 3: pulled some of that money just this past week to 325 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 3: support small businesses. 326 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, what about the people, right What about. 327 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 3: The people who have had to scrounch together what they 328 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 3: can to take care of themselves, dip into their savings, 329 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 3: put together funds to take care of their neighbors. That 330 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 3: can't continue like that forever. And it's ludicrous that they've 331 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 3: been asked to do that until now. So you know, 332 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 3: the strike drive is really about making that point in 333 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: public that the state. 334 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: Needs to intervene. 335 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 3: We need solutions, We need some level of commitment from 336 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 3: the state, the governor, of the state legislature, and from 337 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 3: the cities in order to protect people, to keep them 338 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 3: in their homes for now, and to make them whole 339 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 3: in the long run. 340 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: I think the other element of this too, and something 341 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 2: that I remember dealing with doing tenant organizing, is that 342 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 2: on a very basic level, this is the most brutal 343 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 2: possible time that you can be evicted. It is February 344 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: right now, it is going to be early March, which 345 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 2: is whether that can just kill you. And on top 346 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: of that on sort of political level, where we're very 347 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: used to talking about eviction as like a kind of 348 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 2: process that we're used to happening. But it's like, no, 349 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,239 Speaker 2: we're sending a bunch of people out into whether that 350 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: will kill them, and then also just into the arms 351 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 2: of a federal occupation. And it's the only and that, 352 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: of course I could think of business like, yeah, you're 353 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 2: evicting people into the hands of the Gestapo, which is 354 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: one of the most evil things that can even possibly 355 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: be contemplated. And yet it's just what business as usual 356 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: has been. 357 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's hard to even find the words 358 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 3: to describe the evil. And as you said, it's not 359 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 3: dissimilar to the first year of the COVID nineteen pandemic, 360 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: before there was a vaccine, eviction courts and states like 361 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: mine and Missouri were just open. You know, the courts 362 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 3: were open in my county starting in May of twenty twenty, 363 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 3: a full year before we had a vaccine, and people 364 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: were being evicted into the streets during a time when 365 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: we were told to stay home in order to protect 366 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 3: ourselves and our neighbors from a deadly virus. 367 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a really similar thing. 368 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: You know, the quote unquote business as usual of state 369 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: sanctioned violence, and every eviction is an act of violence. 370 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: The sort of normalcy in the mundanity of that violence 371 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 3: is practiced every day and in front of our eyes 372 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 3: right now. And I think that point about mundanity is 373 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 3: important to draw out right because I think what we've 374 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 3: seen in the Twin Cities in the last three months 375 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: is really visible in your face state violence, as the 376 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 3: ice agents have come and pupper sprayed and beat people 377 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 3: up and of course shot and killed people as well. 378 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: The day to day violence of eviction is actually. 379 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 3: Harder to mobilize people around because it's so boring, it's 380 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 3: so bureaucratic, it's so taken for granted that the state 381 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: treats us like this, that the state exists to protect 382 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 3: property over people and their lives and their needs. And 383 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 3: that's an interesting thing to think about in this moment too, 384 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 3: where there may or may not be a drawdown of 385 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 3: the federal agents, but the long standing economic impacts of 386 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 3: this invasion are here, and it'll be an interesting test 387 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 3: of people's solidarity and focus and endurance to continue showing 388 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 3: up in the months after the agents. 389 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 2: Go away, assuming they do, which is also. 390 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, assuming they go away, right. 391 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 3: But you know, I have faith, I have more faith 392 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 3: than I've ever had in my life that the people 393 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 3: of the Twin Cities who have so righteously fought this 394 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 3: invasion are showing up and will continue to show up 395 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 3: even after a time when the agents are gone, assuming 396 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 3: that happens. And that's a critical test, that will be 397 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 3: a turning point because we live in a world where 398 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: this mundane violence actually does happen all the time, even 399 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: outside of crisis. 400 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: Yeah. 401 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: And the ability to turn the sort of rupture in 402 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 2: these moments of crisis into an actual change to the 403 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: way that everything works, I think to some extent is 404 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: the thing that we failed to do after twenty twenty 405 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: and is the thing that sort of you know that 406 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 2: the foreclosing of the possibilities of the uprising and of 407 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: the mutual aid from the pandemic is what allowed the 408 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 2: sort of monsters that rule our world today to sort 409 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 2: of tear their way through. 410 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So I. 411 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 2: Know that you have to go very soon. Is there 412 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: anything else that you want to make sure people know 413 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: and are there ways that people outside of the Twin 414 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: Cities can support y'all. 415 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. 416 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 3: We are running phone banks now through March first to 417 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 3: increase our numbers for the strike drive. So depending on 418 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 3: when this airs, it would be amazing for folks to 419 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 3: join those phone banks. They can sign up at Twin 420 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 3: Cities Tenants dot org. There's a link to sign up 421 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 3: to join the phone banks. Tenants wherever they are should 422 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 3: get organized and should get trained by Tenant Union Federation. 423 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 3: We've got our big Union school training. That's the virtual 424 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: three month training coming up this summer. There will be 425 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 3: more information to come on our socials and our website 426 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 3: in the next couple of weeks and months, and they 427 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 3: should follow along. People should follow along on social media. 428 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 3: We're learning a lot and we're going to be sharing 429 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 3: a lot of those lessons in public. And I think 430 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 3: an important note to end on perhaps is that this 431 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 3: is not a ViBe's based organizing drive. This is not 432 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 3: social media only. You know, we're believers that words mean things, 433 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 3: and when we say we're running a strike drive, we 434 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 3: mean that shit. So we're running a really intensive organizing 435 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 3: effort that may or may not work. 436 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: You know, we are trying. 437 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 3: We're trying something big and unprecedented, and part of that 438 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 3: attempt and part of our seriousness is also acting with 439 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 3: extraordinary discipline. So we will not authorize strike if we 440 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 3: are anything less than ready to be on strike depending 441 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: on the situation with our demands and whether or not 442 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 3: they're met. People should stay tuned because I think in 443 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: the way that this plays out, we will also be 444 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 3: modeling some of what we're learning in real time around 445 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 3: what it takes to exercise both vision and strategy and 446 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 3: discipline as a collective in this kind of new territory. 447 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is quite frankly one of the coolest 448 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: things I've ever gotten to cover on this show. This 449 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 2: fucking rocks. Love it, And yeah, I hope it goes 450 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: well for you all, and I hope you fucking win. 451 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: Thanks, I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having Memiya, of. 452 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: Course, thank you for coming on. And yeah to everyone 453 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 2: else out there, I don't know. I was just some 454 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: random college kid when I started doing this, So you 455 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: too can do tenants organizing and YouTube can do incredible things. 456 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 2: When the BOMA calls. 457 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: For it, it could happen. Here is a production of 458 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. 459 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 460 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 461 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever. 462 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: You listen to podcasts can now find sources for it 463 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.