1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. It's 2 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: so hard to believe that we have now reached the 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: end of the sixth season of Family Secrets. Not that 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: anyone's counting, but at ten episodes each season, that's sixty 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: episodes so far, sixty stories of inspiring, illuminating, honest explorations. 6 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: As we get to work on a seventh season, I 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: have a special treat for all you Family Secrets listeners. 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: You're about to hear a playlist put together by Hark 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: of some favorite moments in these first six seasons. If 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: you haven't been listened to every single episode, well here's 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: a taste. I'm Danny Shapiro, and here are a few 12 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: of my favorite moments from Family Secrets. The tagline for 13 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: the show is the secrets that are kept from us, 14 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 15 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: keep from ourselves. The very first episode of Family Secrets 16 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: begins with my own story of my life altering discovery 17 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: about my own family's deepest secret. I felt I had 18 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: to share my own secret if I was going to 19 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: be asking my guests to dig into their own. One 20 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: of the first big pieces of journalism I ever wrote 21 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: as a young writer, was a story for The New 22 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: Yorker called The Secret Wife. My dad had been dead 23 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: for a few years, and I was trying to understand 24 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: him better. From a chance throwaway comment, I had learned 25 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: that before my dad met my mother, he had been 26 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: briefly married to a young woman named Dorothy. She died 27 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: shortly after they wed. As I researched and reported the story, 28 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: I felt I was covering the truth of my own 29 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: father's sorrow and depression. I interviewed people who told me 30 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: that Dorothy had been the love of his life. I 31 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: began to understand, or so I thought, the reasons he 32 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: was so distant, the source ultimately of the pain killers 33 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: he swallowed by the dozen each day. When I finished 34 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: The Secret Wife, I thought I was done. Like a detective. 35 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: I had gotten to the bottom of things. I had 36 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: solved the case of my beloved, sad, dead dad. It 37 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: could have happened like this. I could have skipped the 38 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: whole DNA testing thing because I had no curiosity about it. Really, 39 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: I didn't need to spit into the plastic vials sent 40 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: by ancestry dot Com. I wasn't going to discover new 41 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: branches on my family tree. So why didn't I Why 42 00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: didn't I skip it? I've learned something knew about family 43 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: secrets in the three years that have elapsed between that 44 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: moment in my kitchen in Connecticut, that cold winter evening, 45 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: Like so many other cold winter evenings, I've learned that 46 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: when we discover a family secret is as important as 47 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: the how and the why of what we discovery. It 48 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: could have happened like this, that most subtle whisper, that 49 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: place in the deepest interior that we feel when we 50 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: know something isn't right, there's something we're missing, some piece 51 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: of elusive information that has been withheld from us. That 52 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: subtle whisper can become so subtle that we almost don't 53 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: hear it at all. We brushed by it as we 54 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: go about our lives. We're so busy. Our to do 55 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: lists are endless. There are jobs, bosses, spouses, kids, always 56 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: something louder clamoring for our attention. On the day that 57 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: I DNA results were returned to me by ancestry dot Com, 58 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: I was fifty four years old. I had been married 59 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: for nearly twenty years. I was the mother of a 60 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: teenage son. I lived with my family in a house 61 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: in the Connecticut countryside. I was a writer who had 62 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: just finished my ninth book, Woman, wife, mother, cousin, niece, granddaughter, 63 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: great granddaughter, daughter. I stared at the results of my 64 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: DNA test on my computer screen. The numbers, letters, words, 65 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: names were a nonsensical blur. They arranged and rearranged themselves 66 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: as I tried to make any kind of sense of them. 67 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: But I couldn't make sense of them. They made no 68 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: sense the results of the DNA test. I almost didn't 69 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: take those results, spelled out in crystal clear scientific black 70 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: and white, meant only one possible thing. My father was 71 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: not my father. My guest in this episode is David Kasinski, 72 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: brother of the man known as the UNI bomber Ted Kasinski. 73 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: What do you do when bombings are happening all over 74 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: the country, it's national news, and you suspect that the 75 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: UNI bomber is your own brother part of it. It 76 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: wasn't only that I modeled myself and Ted um. You know, 77 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: our family sort of had this framework of values that 78 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: it was around the life of the mind, the arts. 79 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: But even though David idealized and idolized Ted, there was 80 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: also a sense that there was another side to ted 81 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 1: that had nothing to do with the families shared values 82 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: or academic achievement. There was a time a little bit 83 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: later when I asked my mom what's wrong with Teddy? 84 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: And she was a little taken it back, you know, 85 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: what do you mean? And David, there's nothing your brother, 86 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: And I said, well, he doesn't have any friends. Why 87 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: is that? Doesn't he like people? And sometimes he did 88 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: seem to shy away from folks, you know, somebody would 89 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: come over unannounced and he would sort of leave the 90 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: room quickly, like he was upset that they arrived, a 91 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: little frightened. And it was then that Mom said that, 92 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: you know, ted had had an experience as a child. 93 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: He is at the age of nine months, he had 94 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: gotten sick. They took him to the hospital. Some kind 95 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: of rash had covered his body, apparently an allergic reaction, 96 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: but they couldn't diagnose it, and they kept him there 97 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: for I think well over a week, and our parents 98 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: were only allowed to visit during the regular visiting hours. 99 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: Mom always faulted the hospital for for that, and you know, 100 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: she felt that when they brought Teddy help from the hospital, 101 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: he was a very a different child, at least for 102 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: a while. He didn't smile anymore, he didn't make eye contact. 103 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: And it was at that point that my mom had 104 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: said to me, Dave, whatever you do in your life, 105 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: don't ever abandon your brother, because that's what he fears 106 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: the most. And of course I love Teddie, I said, oh, 107 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: I love Teddy. I'd never abandoned Teddy. And I remember 108 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: crying thinking about the pain he had suffered this a 109 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: little baby. And I think there was another lesson that 110 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: my mom sort of wove into that sort of teachable moment, 111 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: and the lesson was that it takes some compassions empathy 112 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: to try to understand another human being. And how old 113 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: were you when she imparted this lesson more or less 114 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: would thank I'm not exactly sure, probably somewhere between seven 115 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: and nine years old. And when you said, your mom, 116 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: what's wrong with Teddy? What? What was it beyond that 117 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: he didn't seem to have any friends? What prompted you 118 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: to say that? Do you think? Oh? I don't know that. 119 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: I've been asked that question, and it's an interesting one. UM. 120 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: I think there were times when Teddy just seemed like 121 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: kind of shut down, UM, like something was bothering him. 122 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: But he wouldn't express it. A strong sense of privacy, 123 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: an introversion that was unusual, I think, at least in 124 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: my experience, and I tended to be a fairly social person. 125 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: I mean I had friends, you know, it was natural 126 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: for me to to be interested in people, and too, 127 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: I want to interact with people, And with Teddy it 128 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: was quite different. So probably I was trying to explore 129 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: why or Teddy and I different in this way. My 130 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: guest in this episode is no Ah Letterman, who uncovers 131 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: the extraordinary and moving story of his grandparents, who had 132 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: been Holocaust survivors who had never spoken of their experience. 133 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: Noah grows up in suburban Great Neck, but always in 134 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: the shadow of what had transpired two generations before him. 135 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: Haunted by the stories his grandparents carried and the impact 136 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: of those stories, he begins to internalize it as some 137 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of responsibility. If anyone in the family is going 138 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: to unpack the history of his grandparents and what they 139 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: went through, it's going to be him. Then, when Noah's eighteen, 140 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: his grandpa dies and he's afraid that all of his 141 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: Grandpa's stories will die with him. I'd always been the grandchild, 142 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: I think with the most questions when it came time 143 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: to uh, you know, to sit around at the meals. 144 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: I was always trying to get nearest to my grandfather 145 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: and ask the question. But it wasn't until I think 146 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: my grandfather died and I'm standing in the cemetery burying him, um, 147 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: and I I'm sort of looking around, and I'm noticing 148 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: that all of the all of the gravestones have the 149 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Stars of David on them, appropriately at the Jewish cemetery, 150 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: but inside those stars of David, a lot of the 151 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: tombstones had Holocaust survivor Holocaust survivors written within the star. 152 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: And I looked over at my grandfather's casket and then 153 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: out at the cemetery. It really felt like we were 154 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: burying all of these stories, you know, all these things 155 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: that I would never learned, or so I felt at 156 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: the time. Then later on that that day and week UM, 157 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: when we had to Shiva, all of my grandparents friends 158 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: started to come to the apartment. And you know, these 159 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: Holocaust survivors, they would like shuffle in and sit at 160 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: the table. And for all the years I had known them, 161 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: they always sat there and spoke in this like coated 162 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: Yiddish and you know, it's probably comfortable for them to 163 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: speak in Yiddish, but also it was convenient for them 164 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: to not have to, you know, have this kid snooping 165 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: in on their conversations and not have the burden of 166 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: like damaging another another young kid in the family. So 167 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: they spoke in Yetish. But at the Shiva, and you know, 168 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: at this point, I'm eighteen years old. I think for 169 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: my benefit, they started speaking in English and they started 170 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: telling all of these stories about my grandfather. Noah hears 171 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: two incredible stories during the Shiva as the old Jews 172 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: sit at the table, nothing on bagels and locks. In 173 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: the first story, his grandfather, who's working on the ship 174 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: that's taking him and Noah's grandma to America, is accosted 175 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: by a sailor. My grandfather had a job on the ship, 176 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: and this other sailor came up to him and he 177 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: was an anti Semi and basically just said it's a 178 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: shame that you should see the end of this war. 179 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: And then my grandfather knocks them out, and you know, 180 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: to me, that was just such like a phenomenal moment 181 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: because it's this little Jew who's standing up to this 182 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: like six ft six anti Semite, and then you know 183 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: when when he's taken to the ship's captain, the ship's 184 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: captain just looks at the giant sailor and the little 185 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: jew and he laughs. But you know, in my mind, 186 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm realizing, Wow, this is like a really brave and 187 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: tough man. And then that was confirmed for me even 188 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: more when when I learned this story that took place 189 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: in the barn, and the barn story takes place during 190 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: the Holocaust, when my grandfather is essentially hiding in this 191 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: barn with a friend and um a Nazi walks in 192 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: on him and he demanded my grandfather's boots. My grandfather, Poppy, 193 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: he doesn't wanna, he doesn't want to turn over his boots, 194 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: so instead he tells his friend to extinguish the light, 195 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: and he runs the pitchfork through the Nazis throat and 196 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: he leaves him dead there. My guest in this episode 197 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: is Lacey Schwartz, and Lacey's is a story about secrets 198 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: and identity and ethnicity and the length to which we 199 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: sometimes go to avoid seeing the truth that is as 200 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: plain as our own face. When Lazy is sixteen, her parents, 201 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: who had been having issues, split up. This fissure in 202 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: the foundation of her family is the first step in 203 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: a fissure inside of Lacey. She can't articulate it, but 204 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: she knows that something doesn't make sense. The fall of 205 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: her senior year, when she applies to colleges, she leaves 206 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: the box that would identify her ethnicity unchecked. Back in 207 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: those days, I don't think college is still do this. 208 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: Lacey would have sent a photograph along with her application. 209 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: So Lazy is admitted to Georgetown as a black student. 210 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: Do you remember anything about that moment? Was that a 211 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: conscious choice? Was that a moment of I really just 212 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: don't even know what the foot here? Or you tell me, 213 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: like you know, it almost feels like a challenge, like 214 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: you tell me who who am I. I've spent to 215 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: a fair amount of time analyzing this and discussing it 216 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: with the people that were close to me. But I 217 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: think in retrospect that what I was, even if it was, 218 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: as you said, the the unknown truth or what what 219 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: was that you said? What was that crazy? The unsought known, 220 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: the unsought known? And that was really so my parents 221 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: went around six team a junior year in high school, right, 222 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: So I was sending my applications more or less that 223 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: summer fall afterwards. At that point I was really my 224 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: bubble was popped, and so I think seeped down. At 225 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: that point. I didn't know the truth, but I was 226 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: very much prioritizing the issues I was dealing with my life, 227 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: but at the same time, largely around I wish with 228 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: one person, a guy that I was dating at that 229 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: time who had already gone off to college, who he 230 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: himself was also bi racial black and had come from 231 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: the same town as me, and was just saying, like, 232 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: yo is one thing that you think walking around in 233 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: this relatively small community that we grew up in and 234 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: saying that you're white or you know, identifying as such. 235 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: But you know, when you go out into the bigger world, 236 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: like people are going to laugh at you, like it 237 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: doesn't add up. And so I was conscious enough to 238 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: know at that point that there were things that weren't 239 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: adding up, but I wasn't prepared to really do the 240 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: deep dive at that point under my you know, but 241 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: still the time my parents root, I wasn't in the 242 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: proximity of my parents ready to do that diving a 243 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: cigarette like, well, then who am I if I am 244 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: not the daughter of both of my parents. Lassie goes 245 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: off to college and begins to try on her new identity, 246 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: living in what she describes as a racial closet. She 247 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: doesn't say a word to her mother, she doesn't say 248 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: a word to her father. It isn't until she's been 249 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: away from home for her entire freshman year that she 250 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: broaches the subject with her mother for the first time. 251 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: So I went to my mother and was like, with then, 252 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: I wanted as a truth, like why do I look 253 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: the way I did? And my mother, as she tends to, 254 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: kind of comes in haught and it took a while 255 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: me pushing her for her to finally kind of sit 256 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: down and really have the conversation about what haccurred around 257 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: me being conceived and how likely it was that my 258 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: father was not my biological Bama. So by the time 259 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: I found out and really fundamentally again, it was more 260 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: a confirmation process than it was a revelatory process, because 261 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: by the time I went to my mother and stuff 262 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: to her, I was ready just to have the imition 263 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: firm so I could confirm my own identity and be 264 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: able to figure out who I was. Lacy's mother does 265 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: not want to talk about it. At first she denies it, 266 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: but eventually she tells Lazy the truth her mom had 267 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: had a long affair was an African American man named Rodney, 268 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: a friend of the family that Lacy has known growing 269 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: up and who Lacy resembles to such a point friends 270 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: have pointed it out, and so kind of at that point, 271 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: she shared the information and shared what is basically outline, 272 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: and it's not that she had had a relationship with 273 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: my biological father and there was a very good chance 274 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: that I would to his child. And for me, I 275 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: mean again, based on the time that I really physically 276 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: looked fairly similar to him, it seemed pretty obvious what 277 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: the truth was. Once Lazy has the truth of her 278 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: identity confirmed, you'd think she'd pay her dad a visit 279 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: go talk to him. Lazy's mom tells her that the 280 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: two of them have never discussed it. My parents never 281 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: talked about the truth to this day. They haven't actually 282 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: really pull out had a conversation about the truth for 283 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: a long time. Obviously listeners my mother, But now at 284 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: this point my father has made it clear to her 285 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: that he doesn't want to sit down and talk it out, 286 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: that he just doesn't want to talk to her about it, 287 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: and they had never had a moment with each other 288 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: when you were born or in your childhood. There wasn't 289 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: that when when he moved out, like when they were 290 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: pretty much in the pop him moving out. One one 291 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: moment he said, you know, I know, lazy is not 292 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: my biological child. And according to her, you know, she 293 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: cried and cried and said I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But 294 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: they didn't actually have a conversation like that was the 295 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: extent of the competition. How long after the hemming and 296 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: hawing with your mother and then finally her admitting to 297 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: you that it was possible, how long before you then 298 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: ended up speaking with your father about it? A decade? 299 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: A decade. Steve Romo, a polished newscaster, spent much of 300 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: his life hiding his shame about his upbringing, which resided 301 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: just beneath his completely pulled together exterior and his big career. 302 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: Stephen goes to school dressed in mismatched clothes, dirty clothes, 303 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: and sometimes the roaches hitch a ride in his backpack, 304 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: crawl out of his lunchbox. Other kids notice, of course, 305 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: but Stephen invents stories around why that's the case. I 306 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: was just a liar, and I thought I was really 307 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: good at it, But now looking back, it just seems 308 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: ridiculous the stuff I would say. But it was anything 309 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: too disconnect me from the way I was growing up. 310 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: I watched so much TV as a kid, uninterrupted hours 311 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: upon hours of TV, any and everything, but we didn't 312 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: have cable, so it's just what I could get on 313 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: the antenna. But because of that, I invented so many 314 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: stories that were just completely made up about trips to 315 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: Europe and stuff that would have never happened in a 316 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: million years with enough detail. I thought that I was 317 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: completely tricking all these kids to think that I was 318 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: actually like one of them or just wealthy. And I 319 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: was made to dress poor because my parents wanted to 320 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: keep me humble. Just just ridiculous stories that I made 321 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: up just to try to defend myself. And I was 322 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: made fun of, of course, because that's what happens when 323 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: you're a kid. But I really feel like the kids 324 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: were easier on me than they could have been. I 325 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: could have had it much worse than I did. You know, 326 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: it's interesting the whole idea of education through TV, you know, 327 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: and and through reading as well, and the way in 328 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: which I mean so often on this podcast I think 329 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: about my guests stories and the way that if the 330 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: story had been playing out during a time when the 331 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: Internet existed, where there was so much readily available information, 332 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: you could look something up, you could call it by 333 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: its name, you could find out what it was, you 334 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: could connect with other people who might be going through 335 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: something similar. And there are things that are not so 336 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: great about that, but there's so many things that are 337 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: that really pierced people's sense of isolation. Whereas when you 338 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: were growing up, that didn't exist, and so your education 339 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: was Mr. Rogers neighborhood. That's such a ordered, gentle kind place, 340 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: a place where there would never be a cockroach, a 341 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: place where there would never be anything out of place 342 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: or out of order? Did you find all of that? 343 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: It was like sort of part of your coming of age. Absolutely. 344 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: I can't imagine what my childhood would have been like 345 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: without television. It's how I knew that the way I 346 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: was living was unacceptable and would make me start as 347 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: a young child, trying to fight against it, trying to 348 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: force my parents to allow us to move was just 349 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: from the story that I saw on TV. They made 350 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: me feel less lonely I felt more connected to the 351 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: characters on TV. Mr. Rogers, Neighborhood and even shows that 352 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: weren't actually geared towards me was. I was a super 353 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: young child watching the Oprah Winfrey Show and seeing people 354 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: who had gone through trauma had come just fine. It 355 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: was not geared to our nine year old boy, but 356 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: watching it made me realize that if these people can 357 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: overcome horrible things that happened to them, uh, the same 358 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: could be true of me. And then getting a library 359 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: card and reading diary of Anne Frank and seeing like, 360 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: this is nothing that I'm going through. This is nothing 361 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: compared to what some people have survived. It was invaluable 362 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: that connection. I feel like stories really did save me. 363 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: I think that's why I'm a a storyteller now. When 364 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: John Melman's wife Marlow was first diagnosed with cancer, they 365 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: shielded their young daughters from this painful fact. But then 366 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: years later, Marla's cancer returned and was now terminal, and 367 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: they continued to hide the truth of her condition from 368 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: their now college age daughters. We gotta crab sandwich and 369 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: we had to deal with it. We never looked back. 370 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: What was me? Why us? We never said that to 371 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: each other. We never wondered, like, you know, I wish 372 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: it had it just we just accepted it. But we 373 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: tried to accept it in a manner that we fought 374 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: it as fiercely humanly possible. We used every access point 375 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: that we possibly could, from a relationship standpoint, from an 376 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: involvement standpoint, from traveling around two different hospitals to meet 377 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: different doctors, to learn and to educate ourselves. So um, 378 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: but there was nothing we could do. This is not hey, 379 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: I broke my leg and it's gonna mend. We thought 380 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: the first time that we'd get it. We knew this 381 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: statistics were against us. Um and then even the second time, 382 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: she out performed and pushed the boundaries no. Three and 383 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: a half times more than somebody else should have and 384 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: enabled our kids. It's two go through their puberty, their 385 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: adolescent teenage years, their high school years, you know, tough 386 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: times for girls, not easy time for any girl. Saw 387 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: them get into their colleges of their dreams. They all 388 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: were academically very strong students. They were also incredible athletes, 389 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: and they all played at a Division one level, which 390 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,479 Speaker 1: for Scarsdale Jewish girls was rare, so they were able 391 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: to stay on track at a very very high level. 392 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: That is probably only because of Marla that they saw 393 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: this fierceness in her to fight their early days and 394 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: the way that she lived her life knowing that she 395 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: always had potentially had this cancer that was lingering. So 396 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: it worked for us, it's not for everybody. It was 397 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: uneasy fibbing. Could you describe that a little bit? For instance, 398 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: we'd go on a vacation, but Marlo, we always had 399 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: to schedule our vacations on scans or treatments, and they 400 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: were all being done in Boston. So we would leave 401 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: from New York the day after she had her scan 402 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: in Boston. She literally run back and then get on 403 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: a plane. We go away. But then we go back 404 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: and we come back to New York and Marla go 405 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: back to Boston. Why is mommy going back to Boston? Oh, 406 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,959 Speaker 1: she asked to you know, she's part of this trial. Yes, 407 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: she's true, she was part of a trial. The piece 408 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: of the truth, the piece of the truth. It wasn't 409 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: like it wasn't as though this trial is keeping her alive. Kids. 410 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: We never said that, and that was the truth. We 411 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: called it the loving choice to provide them enough information 412 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: that they knew what was going on, but not every detail. 413 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: So Marla really was fine, totally fine for years. She's 414 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: fine years in which she requires a tremendous amount of 415 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: medical attention. Sometimes she wears a wig, but otherwise you 416 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: really wouldn't suspect that she's dealing with a terminal illness. 417 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: No one knows. But then, with her girls now all 418 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: highly competent young adults, Marla starts running out of options. 419 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: She's turned through every possible clinical trial and conventional medicine. 420 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: She begins to develop tumors around her clavical again, and 421 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: these are pinching her vocal cords. She has radiation and 422 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: a port is put in. This, of course, becomes harder 423 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: and harder to keep hidden. She has to change the 424 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: way she dresses. No more summary outfits, nothing low cut 425 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: or sleeveless. She wears scarves around her neck. I just thought, 426 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: because she had this ability to to regenerate, even when 427 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: the trial they didn't think of tribal was gonna work, 428 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: it would work for six or nine months, and which 429 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: was unheard of. Most trials really work eight or sixteen weeks. 430 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: I just figured we'd get through this holiday season. We 431 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: have two graduations this year, one of which we had already. 432 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: We had one in a month. I just figured she 433 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: would plow through this and make it because the red 434 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: letter days for her were so important to her. She 435 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: lived for those, She lived for those days. I just 436 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: figured she'd do it. But Maria in September and October 437 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: could see that we were headed down a trickier place, 438 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: and she decided, I'm done keeping this secret. I can't 439 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: do it anymore. The guilt was was writing, and she 440 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: wasn't sure what the timeline was when you say guilt, 441 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: was it because at that point she was facing her 442 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: own mortality. Facing her mortality, she didn't want to walk 443 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: around the house covering the port or the fact that 444 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: she had different red spots because of the radiation. She 445 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: just didn't want to hide anymore. She was certain she 446 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: wanted to do in October, when the kids were home 447 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: for the fall break and she felt then she felt better. 448 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: She said, okay, I'll just wait till Thanksgiving. Then she 449 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: doesn't bad news in November that really there wasn't much 450 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: left in terms of the even the conventional medicines, and 451 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: there was one last Jefford. But the doctors were saying 452 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: you need to start to get ready here. But I 453 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: just figured she would do it for another six or 454 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: eight months and to be a crappy summer of nineteen. 455 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: I thought the summer nineteen would be really grappy. They're older, 456 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: two daughters are away in college, and the youngest is 457 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: a high school senior. When John and Marla set them 458 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: down over Thanksgiving to break some of the news to them, 459 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: not all of the news. So we told the kids 460 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,239 Speaker 1: and Thanksgiving that we were concerned, not worried, but we 461 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: were concerned that mom had taken a turn and some 462 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: things had occurred that we did not expect, and that 463 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: we were working through them, but that we were basically 464 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: flashing a yellow light not to worry, and we had 465 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: a script that we had come in our mind, and 466 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: it went really well. And then Marla pushed the envelope 467 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: a little bit in the conversation, and we had the 468 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: girls in a pretty good place, because I don't think 469 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: that they were totally surprised by all of this, that 470 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: there was something going on, because the little one was 471 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: at home and I'm sure she was telling the sisters that, 472 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: you know, my mom has been running around a little 473 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: bit more, and she said in this conversation, and we 474 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: had talked about this line, which was, you know, there's 475 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: the likelihood that I'm gonna make it to eight is 476 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: very low. And then she said, and I was shocked 477 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: by and I did a turn with my neck on 478 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: and forget, she said, and it's unlikely that I'm gonna 479 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: make it to sixty. And that's when we had a 480 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: little bit of bedroom in the house. The girls were 481 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: not expecting that, and that sort of changed the vibe 482 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: and the rhythm to the conversation. But she had had 483 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: enough of the gamesmanship that she had and the brinksmanship 484 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: that she had. Okay, Family Secrets listeners, that's all we've 485 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: got for now. As for what's to come, we'll be 486 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: back with all new extraordinary stories to share with you. 487 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: We've just begun recording them now, so stay tuned. In 488 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: the meantime, keep an eye and an ear out for 489 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: occasional bonus interviews, and keep calling us with your own stories. 490 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: At One Secret zero, We're listening, and we're so grateful 491 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: you are too.