Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power COLLI
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco, and this
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Putin
Speaker 1: retaliates as sanctions for Russia's invasion. Mount will bring you
Speaker 1: the latest development in the assault on Ukraine from the
Speaker 1: ground and keep to the White House to cyberspace plus
Speaker 1: Meta and Twitter disrupt a Russian disinformation campaign. We'll talk
Speaker 1: to a top meta security official about what more can
Speaker 1: be done to fight Russian propaganda on social media. And
Speaker 1: we will talk about the role of crypto in the
Speaker 1: Ukrainian war, with several cryptocurrency surging after Russian sanctions, but
Speaker 1: could crypto also be a tool to allow Russian billionaires
Speaker 1: to circumvent them. We'll discuss We'll get to all of
Speaker 1: that in a moment. But first, stocks are raising almost
Speaker 1: all of their losses, Bitcoin rallying as investors weigh the
Speaker 1: risk of mounting sanctions on Russia. Meantime, Russia canceled trading
Speaker 1: in Moscow, but chairs of Russian companies cratered elsewhere, joining us.
Speaker 1: Now our ed Ludlow, who has been looking at market
Speaker 1: reaction across the globe. Yeah, it's been an incredible day
Speaker 1: in financial markets. Yes, we ended off session lows in
Speaker 1: terms of the equity story. Look at the spif just
Speaker 1: a quarter of percentage point, but investors clearly trying to
Speaker 1: work out their exposure position themselves. This is February, last
Speaker 1: day of the month, and it's the second consecutive monthly
Speaker 1: declined for U S secuities, the worst street going back
Speaker 1: to October. A big part of that story, of course,
Speaker 1: is yields. You see a big drive, a big advance
Speaker 1: in the bond market. US tenure yield, the benchmark in
Speaker 1: the US market off by fourteen basis points one eight
Speaker 1: two percent. So clearly investors taking the assessment. Semi conductors
Speaker 1: have been such a big part of that. Say ancients
Speaker 1: package well, the socks off by seven tenths of one percent,
Speaker 1: but it had been down more than two percent. So
Speaker 1: also investors working out the explosion of their bitcoin is
Speaker 1: really interesting. Trades seven, it's Monday. You and I back
Speaker 1: here in the studio over the weekend, I was not
Speaker 1: looking at cryptocurrency markets. If you see that big jump,
Speaker 1: the biggest since July for bitcoins. The consideration here is
Speaker 1: that whichever side the sanctions you sit on, crypto adoption
Speaker 1: crypto use may become more prevalent in the wake of those,
Speaker 1: particularly financial sanctions. To work out those that might be
Speaker 1: strung by certain currencies. Also kind of covering me ins
Speaker 1: my Bloombog tunuel. Yes, there's a lot of red on
Speaker 1: the screen at the moment, but there are also sectors
Speaker 1: that are in winners. This is the out performance of
Speaker 1: the defense sector on the SMP five relative to the
Speaker 1: broader index. You can see money has been going into
Speaker 1: the defense stocks. You know all about some of these
Speaker 1: NATO countries that are upping their defense spending unprecedentedly so
Speaker 1: in the wake of what we're seeing out of Ukraine.
Speaker 1: And finally there's the specific story of Russia and sanctions.
Speaker 1: A lot of it around commodities. You look at oil
Speaker 1: holding it around a barrel below a hundred, and we
Speaker 1: held pretty steady there as sanctions become more and more
Speaker 1: encroaching on the energy markets. But also the Bloomberg Commodity
Speaker 1: Index shows how broad basedis is soft and hard commodities
Speaker 1: jumping by the most insects. And finally, the van K
Speaker 1: e t F. This is a U S listed e
Speaker 1: t F which trucks which tracks Russian equities with the
Speaker 1: Russian markets closed until further notice. This was an issue
Speaker 1: of price discovery using that e t F truck tracking
Speaker 1: Russian assets down the biggest drop Emily in history. All right,
Speaker 1: thank you. Lots of moving parts there. As sweeping sanctions
Speaker 1: shake Russia's financial system and ripple worldwide, the Bank of
Speaker 1: Russia is taking desperate measures to seal the nation's economy,
Speaker 1: and the question is what more can the West do?
Speaker 1: Bloombergh Jordan's Fabian has more Jordans as far as we know.
Speaker 1: How much further is the US willing to go, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to swift or otherwise. Right now they're
Speaker 1: saying U S oficials are saying that nothing is off
Speaker 1: the table, But one area they've been very hesitant to
Speaker 1: touch is the energy sector, which is of course the
Speaker 1: lifeblood of Rush's economy. There they're saying this morning that
Speaker 1: there's going to be certain carve outs or exemptions for
Speaker 1: energy related trades when they do announce the specifics of
Speaker 1: this swift band. That being said, the sanctions package thus
Speaker 1: far hasn't convinced Vladimir Putin to withdraw from Ukraine. So
Speaker 1: the question is, if this latest round of central bank
Speaker 1: penalties doesn't do the trick, then what does How far
Speaker 1: is the U S willing to go? And obviously, Jordan,
Speaker 1: you're covering the White House forest talk to us about
Speaker 1: how the Ukraine situation is changing President Biden's plan for
Speaker 1: the state of the Union coming up tomorrow. When the
Speaker 1: White House was initially conceiving the speech, they were thinking
Speaker 1: of it as a broad reset, uh, domestically on the
Speaker 1: President Biden's domestic agenda, which has been stalled since late
Speaker 1: last year, and also on the COVID situation. Uh, those
Speaker 1: two things are still gonna be prominent factor in this speech.
Speaker 1: But there's going to be much about the situation Ukraine,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna try and cast it in a way
Speaker 1: that it makes a part of the President Biden's effort
Speaker 1: to promote democracy both in the United States and abroad well.
Speaker 1: And there's also this question is about how these sanctions
Speaker 1: against Russia impact economies around the world and impact the
Speaker 1: US economy, which is already hurting from inflation. How is
Speaker 1: the President thinking about that? As I mentioned that the
Speaker 1: energy sector is a huge factor here. Inflation has been
Speaker 1: a tremendous bugaboo for Biden politically. It's it's really helped
Speaker 1: drag down his approval ratings. And thus far we've seen
Speaker 1: a real reluctance by the US government to go after
Speaker 1: Russia's oil and gas sector because they fear rising oil
Speaker 1: prices beyond how far they've already risen. So Uh, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a big test for them in the coming
Speaker 1: weeks and days. Uh to see again, if Russia is
Speaker 1: not pulling out, not picking any concessions on the Ukraine front,
Speaker 1: how are they going? Are they're willing to go and
Speaker 1: you know, ban exports of Russian oil for example. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's something we'll be watching in the next few weeks, alright,
Speaker 1: Our White House reporter Jordan Fabian Jordan, thank you for
Speaker 1: that update. The war in Ukraine and the moments leading
Speaker 1: up to it have been muddied by disinformation online, with
Speaker 1: Russian actors pushing state narratives via platforms like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
Speaker 1: Twitter and more. Joining us to break down the role
Speaker 1: of social media in this ongoing war. Bloomberg Sarah Fryar, Sarah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Talk to us
Speaker 1: about how this fight against Russian disinformation is different than
Speaker 1: what we've seen in years past, for example, disinformation surrounding
Speaker 1: the US election. I think it's different because in this
Speaker 1: case you have a very clear instance of a state
Speaker 1: actor with the goal the gold known and you can
Speaker 1: just look for those specific talking points across social media
Speaker 1: and in those chiels right, we've seen, We've seen Twitter,
Speaker 1: We've seen UM Facebook, Twitter labeling Russian state media of
Speaker 1: Facebook is removing it from from circulation in the EU.
Speaker 1: UM YouTube has restricted any sort of advertising on that
Speaker 1: content in certain places. So I think I think that
Speaker 1: the side is a little clear because the U S
Speaker 1: based company UM your US based companies, and they are
Speaker 1: getting pressure from governments in the EU, UM and in
Speaker 1: the US, So I think that it's a little less
Speaker 1: murky what they have to do here talks us about
Speaker 1: how widespread this particular campaign is. I mean, they say
Speaker 1: they've suspended forty accounts in forty eight hours, but could
Speaker 1: it be much bigger than that? You're referring to uh
Speaker 1: operation that meta found on Facebook and Instagram. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is this is the typical kind of thing that
Speaker 1: they've been looking for for years, ever since the presidential
Speaker 1: election that involved Russian state interference and spreading and misinformation.
Speaker 1: This is what they've trained their systems on now, so
Speaker 1: they're they're a lot more aware of what to look at.
Speaker 1: Are they catching everything? Probably not um, but this is
Speaker 1: at least um invocative of of how how they're proactively
Speaker 1: looking for such things now. It's it's not like these
Speaker 1: companies that are being blindsided anymore. They are being asked um.
Speaker 1: And not just not just these companies, but information disinformation
Speaker 1: researchers the world over have been looking for this kind
Speaker 1: of content and flagging it. So I think that there
Speaker 1: are a lot more resources, a lot more eyeballs, and
Speaker 1: the more eyeballs to the problem, that easier it is disolved,
Speaker 1: all right, Bloomberg Stari Fire, thank you for that update. Meantime,
Speaker 1: as we just discussed medicine, it's disrupted a Russian disinformation
Speaker 1: operation targeting Ukraine, blocking efforts by a hacking group attempting
Speaker 1: to compromise the accounts of prominent Ukrainians. I want to
Speaker 1: get the latest on this from MET has had a
Speaker 1: security policy Napaniel Gleicher himself Da Daniel talk to us
Speaker 1: about the significance of what you have disrupted so far,
Speaker 1: and what else, what more work there is to do here? Sure,
Speaker 1: so we've identified and removed these two separate campaigns. One
Speaker 1: is an influence operation where these actors were using fake
Speaker 1: accounts across a whole number of social media networks Instagram
Speaker 1: and Facebook, but also on Twitter, on YouTube, on Okay
Speaker 1: and v k which are Russian social media networks, and
Speaker 1: their own websites to try to push messages suggesting that
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian government is sailing or failed, to undermine trust
Speaker 1: in the Ukrainian government and boost trust in the Russian government.
Speaker 1: And then separately, this hacking campaign. This is a group
Speaker 1: known as Ghostwriter, which is a well known threat actor
Speaker 1: that operates across Eastern Europe. They have now begun targeting
Speaker 1: individuals in Ukraine, including at least one journalists and prominent
Speaker 1: military officials and government linked officials. And what they're doing
Speaker 1: is they're hacking in and taking over their personal emails
Speaker 1: and their devices, and then they're using that to take
Speaker 1: over all their social media accounts and try to use
Speaker 1: those accounts to post false narratives or deceptive narratives. The
Speaker 1: good news is our teams have found and taken action
Speaker 1: on both of these operations. We've shared that information with
Speaker 1: our partners in industry, and so far it doesn't look
Speaker 1: like they were having a lot of success. So, for example,
Speaker 1: that influence operation, they only had about five thousand followers
Speaker 1: or even a bit less on Facebook and Instagram when
Speaker 1: they were removed. So to my next point, forty accounts
Speaker 1: in forty eight hours, how significant is that really, given
Speaker 1: that metas platforms, Facebook, Instagram, what's top are massive? Is
Speaker 1: this just scratching the surface, you know, in terms of
Speaker 1: how far these disinformation campaigns are running. Well, this is
Speaker 1: only one piece of the work that we're doing in Ukraine,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't want people to think that this is
Speaker 1: the only thing that's happening. We've stood up a full
Speaker 1: special operations center and lets us bring in investigators and
Speaker 1: product experts from across the company so that we can
Speaker 1: tackle these challenges. We've rolled out a whole number of
Speaker 1: new products changes to help keep people stay safe on
Speaker 1: the platform. But influence operations like this, it's not the
Speaker 1: size that you need to pay attention to. This is
Speaker 1: an indication and it's the first indication we've seen that
Speaker 1: there is that there are covert influence operations from Russia
Speaker 1: targeting public debate in Ukraine. There's been a lot of
Speaker 1: speculation that that's happening, and of course there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of focus on overt influence operations from Russian state
Speaker 1: media and from other corners, but this is the first
Speaker 1: time we've seen this evidence. It's a good reminder that
Speaker 1: the threat actors that teams around the world are focused
Speaker 1: on our targeting this crisis, this invasion, and it's critical
Speaker 1: that we all remain vigilant to take action on these
Speaker 1: networks when they when they appear well and look, Russian
Speaker 1: disinformation campaigns are nothing new. As you and I have
Speaker 1: talked about in the past. Why did it take an
Speaker 1: invasion to get this kind of action from META on Ukraine?
Speaker 1: I mean, couldn't you have done this sooner? So we've
Speaker 1: enforced on a number of operations targeting Ukraine over the years.
Speaker 1: And actually an interesting point this network in particular, which
Speaker 1: is which is in particular stood up and begin engaging
Speaker 1: as tensions in Ukraine developed, UH is linked to a
Speaker 1: network we removed last year in that we removed from
Speaker 1: the platform we know these threat actors keep trying, but
Speaker 1: one of the indicators of success is that network removed.
Speaker 1: Last year it had about two and fifty thousand followers
Speaker 1: on Facebook and Instagram. This network, when they've tried to
Speaker 1: come back, had less than five thousand. And that's the
Speaker 1: goal here. These threat actors will keep trying, but over time,
Speaker 1: working with partners across society and improving our systems, we
Speaker 1: can make it harder for them, We can contain them,
Speaker 1: and we can ensure that even if they do get
Speaker 1: on the platforms, they just don't reach that many people
Speaker 1: before they get taken down. Look, your head of policy,
Speaker 1: Nick Klag, just announced you will be suspending Ussian state
Speaker 1: run media Art and spot Nik in Europe. There are
Speaker 1: calls for you to do that globally. When you look
Speaker 1: at the bigger picture, what more do you think Meta
Speaker 1: and its platforms, it's massive platforms can do to crack
Speaker 1: down on this kind of disinformation. So we've already taken
Speaker 1: a number of steps on Russian state media. We have
Speaker 1: removed their ability to run ads and demonetize them around
Speaker 1: the world. As Nick mentioned, in response to requests from
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian government and the EU government, we blocked them
Speaker 1: a number of specific Russian state media entities from broadcasting
Speaker 1: into the EU and into Ukraine. We're taking a whole
Speaker 1: range of other steps to essentially de amplify their ability
Speaker 1: to share information on our platforms. And also, we have
Speaker 1: third party fact checkers that are continuing to review content
Speaker 1: posted by Russian state media entities and other entities around
Speaker 1: the world. When they identify something is false or misleading,
Speaker 1: we label that to make sure people can see that,
Speaker 1: and we down rank it so it doesn't appear in
Speaker 1: people's needs and people are less likely to encounter the information. Meantime,
Speaker 1: you've got the Russian government asking you to take stuff down.
Speaker 1: How are you handling those requests? Looking at the other
Speaker 1: side of the coin, We're going to be consistent with
Speaker 1: our policies. The Russian government has asked us to remove
Speaker 1: fact checks from Russian state media publications where the third
Speaker 1: party fact checkers I mentioned have determined that they were
Speaker 1: making statements that were false or misleading. We refused to
Speaker 1: do that. Those fact checks are still available. Our third
Speaker 1: party fact checkers are still fact checking content from around
Speaker 1: the world, including from Russian state media, and actually, in
Speaker 1: the meantime, we've identified and labeled a number of additional
Speaker 1: Russian state media entities. So we're continuing to push. In fact,
Speaker 1: we'll be likely identifying and labeling more as time passes.
Speaker 1: That our investigators continue to work. And what can you
Speaker 1: tell us about cooperation between Meta and Twitter and TikTok
Speaker 1: and YouTube on these efforts. I know that that's that
Speaker 1: kind of coordination is something that's been happening for a
Speaker 1: few years now. Yeah, coordination across industry is absolutely critical
Speaker 1: because threat actors like the ones we're talking about don't
Speaker 1: just target one social media platform. I mentioned that the
Speaker 1: Influence operations we took down targeted a number of social
Speaker 1: media platforms, similarly that that hacking group Ghostwriter. They begin
Speaker 1: by compromising personal email and then using that to get
Speaker 1: to a whole bunch of different social media accounts. Whenever
Speaker 1: we find an operation like this, we share information with
Speaker 1: our partners so that they can investigate and they can
Speaker 1: take action themselves on violations on their platform, and then
Speaker 1: they share information back with us so that we can
Speaker 1: do the same thing. One of the biggest changes from
Speaker 1: even from is that today there are determined expert teams
Speaker 1: at social media platforms around the world, in government and
Speaker 1: in civil society, that are working to defend against these
Speaker 1: types of threats and are sharing information with each other
Speaker 1: so we can all counter them as a whole of
Speaker 1: society response. Alright, met ahead of security policy, Nathaniel, I sure,
Speaker 1: thank you so much as always for joining us to
Speaker 1: talk about the work you're doing. Meantime, TikTok users can
Speaker 1: now upload videos up to ten minutes long. This after
Speaker 1: months of testing. TikTok has been expanding its video length
Speaker 1: ever since its creation, going from an initial fifteen seconds
Speaker 1: to sixty seconds and then, most recently three minutes. TikTok
Speaker 1: says it hopes this will unleash even more creative possibilities
Speaker 1: for creators around the world. Longer videos could allow more context. However,
Speaker 1: critics say this also opens the door for more misinformation
Speaker 1: and disinformation, especially in the midst of the ongoing crisis
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. Coming up, tens of thousands of Ukrainians fleeing
Speaker 1: their war torn country now able to access homes on
Speaker 1: Airbnb for free or on that pledge from CEO Brian Chesky.
Speaker 1: Next this Spoomberg AIRBNBC O Brian Chesky says the home
Speaker 1: sharing service will offer free short term housing for up
Speaker 1: to one thousand Ukrainian refugees now being forced to flee
Speaker 1: their country. This is something the company has done in
Speaker 1: the past during other international conflicts. For more, I'm joined
Speaker 1: by Bloomberg Michael Tobin. Bloomberg Michael, what do we know
Speaker 1: about Airbnb's efforts this time and how does it compare
Speaker 1: to what they've done in years past. So Airbnb is
Speaker 1: stepped up and offered to provide short term housing to
Speaker 1: up to a hundred thousands UM Ukrainian refugees that are
Speaker 1: coming from the country. UM, the size and scope of
Speaker 1: what we're seeing out of Ukraine is pretty large, and
Speaker 1: people are estimating that it's only going to get larger
Speaker 1: as the conflict progresses. UM. In the past, Airbnb has
Speaker 1: really helped us step up and provide housing to refugees
Speaker 1: from Afghanistan. They were able to provide housing to more
Speaker 1: than twenty one refugees and have also stepped up in
Speaker 1: the past to provide housing UM too refucues from Syria
Speaker 1: and Venezuela. How is this operation being funded? I mean,
Speaker 1: is this purely thanks to the generosity of Airbnb hosts?
Speaker 1: That's part of it. I mean, ultimately, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, people are going to have to open
Speaker 1: up their homes, right, and they're also getting some support
Speaker 1: from donors as well as their refugee fund. But I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of the work is gonna have to
Speaker 1: come from the hosts themselves. So talk to us that
Speaker 1: about how airbnb dot org fits into the broader company
Speaker 1: efforts and the longer term goals here. I think that
Speaker 1: they are continuing to place an emphasis on kind of
Speaker 1: this social outreach and humanitarian work. And I mean I
Speaker 1: think the speed that they've been able to put this together,
Speaker 1: I mean, this crisis has been going on for a
Speaker 1: few days. It's clearly you know, at the top of
Speaker 1: their mind whenever something happens, they're looking for a way
Speaker 1: that they can help out. We know that other companies
Speaker 1: like Uber are pulling employees out of Ukraine. Uber is
Speaker 1: also suspended its service is in Ukraine. What kind of
Speaker 1: operations does Airbnb have in Ukraine and Russia to be fair,
Speaker 1: and how are they handling this? In total? UM there's
Speaker 1: about seventeen thousand short term listings in Ukraine, and that's
Speaker 1: data from air DNA, which is a market research company.
Speaker 1: UM from what I've seen, there is a good deal
Speaker 1: of UM I guess market share that Airbnb has within
Speaker 1: that community. UM. I spoke to a few hosts who
Speaker 1: are in the city of Mariopool, which is down on
Speaker 1: the c of asof so it connects, you know, to
Speaker 1: the Black Sea. UM and they said that business was
Speaker 1: going as normal up until the week before the invasion. UM.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like some of those are still in operation.
Speaker 1: The company said that they're going to continue to support
Speaker 1: hosts and guests, but we haven't heard anything direct from them.
Speaker 1: And what about in Russia in particular, Yeah, so in
Speaker 1: Russia there are more there's about nine than the active
Speaker 1: rental units UM and I haven't checked to see what
Speaker 1: share Airbnb has, but it's a much larger market and
Speaker 1: to be fair, also a much larger country than Ukraine.
Speaker 1: All Right, Bloomberg's Michael Tolben, We're going to continue to
Speaker 1: follow Airbnb's efforts. Here see how many Ukrainian refugees take
Speaker 1: Airbnb up on this offer, this generous offer. Michael, thank
Speaker 1: you for that report. Meantime, Bloomberg has learned that i
Speaker 1: Fit Health and Fitness saw its valuation fall by about
Speaker 1: six after raising new capital. The Peloton rival now valued
Speaker 1: below three billion dollars. Just last week, i FIT announced
Speaker 1: the restructuring and layoffs. I FITS brand include Nordic Track
Speaker 1: and pro Form Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology and Emily
Speaker 1: Chang in San Francisco, starling space actors. Space based internet
Speaker 1: services active in Ukraine and helping the country citizens stay connected.
Speaker 1: This according to a tweet from ukas City lamask the world,
Speaker 1: which is man also promised more hardware is on the
Speaker 1: way to help Ukraine in response to a plea from
Speaker 1: the country's Vice Prime Minister, Mikhailo Federer of joining us
Speaker 1: now with the latest on that are at Ludlow and
Speaker 1: talk to us about what Starlink is doing in Ukraine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting they've moved so quickly. So Elon Musk tweeted
Speaker 1: that two pm on Saturday, we actually just in the
Speaker 1: last couple of hours had an image through from Ukraine
Speaker 1: from that same minister and those Starlink ground terminals or
Speaker 1: sets have arrived. You see them there in the back
Speaker 1: of that truck. We don't know how many you are
Speaker 1: in there, but that's incredibly fast. Bearing in mind that
Speaker 1: the Starlink service wasn't active in the Ukraine and wasn't
Speaker 1: juiced be active there until three. So there have been reports,
Speaker 1: for example from vias At that their internet service has
Speaker 1: been disrupted by a suspected cyber hack. This goes some
Speaker 1: way to helping the country of Ukraine and staying connected.
Speaker 1: Why is starlink so useful for what's going on there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the simplicity of it. So inside each of those
Speaker 1: boxes there's the receiver unit and a dish, and you literally,
Speaker 1: as Elon Musk has put in the past, stand outside,
Speaker 1: point your dish in the sky and hope that there's
Speaker 1: a Starling satellite overhead. But we've already seen some tweets
Speaker 1: from the ground showing that they're getting good connectivity a
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty seven megabits per second to TV some context,
Speaker 1: the average broadband in the US gives you around fifty
Speaker 1: megabits per second. So it's strong WiFi that you're able
Speaker 1: to run video on, you can communicate with and as
Speaker 1: we know, some of the services in that country have
Speaker 1: been disrupted because of energy shortages or outages because of
Speaker 1: Russia's military activity, but also, as I said, some of
Speaker 1: these suspected cyber attacks which have impacted other providers like
Speaker 1: vias that it's simple, it's quick. We just don't know
Speaker 1: how many receivers they've got. We don't know how much
Speaker 1: service starlink is able to provide, and how as far
Speaker 1: as we know to Starlink's system compared to the kind
Speaker 1: of internet you know, and Ukrainian citizen would normally be
Speaker 1: able to access. Yeah, I think part of the problem
Speaker 1: with Elon Musk and Starlink and SpaceX is how they communicate.
Speaker 1: All we're going off is tweets and pictures that have
Speaker 1: been tweeted. For example, each starlink box costs around five
Speaker 1: the services a month. We have no idea how many
Speaker 1: boxes are being provided, We have no idea who's paying
Speaker 1: for this. We have no idea if this is just
Speaker 1: a one off publicity stunt, or if Starling Conula must
Speaker 1: will continue to support Ukraine throughout this conflict. All we
Speaker 1: know is that we've done this, They've done this quickly,
Speaker 1: and if we have a prior example, For example, Starlink
Speaker 1: provided fifty ground sets to Tonga after that tsunami and earthquake.
Speaker 1: That really helps some of the remote parts of the
Speaker 1: country get back online. So it should be helpful in
Speaker 1: this case as well. All Right, Ed Ludlow. We're going
Speaker 1: to continue to follow that story. Thank you. I want
Speaker 1: to stay on this topic of keeping Ukraine's connected to
Speaker 1: the Internet and bring in Wendy Whitmore. She is the
Speaker 1: senior vice president for Unit forty two at Power out
Speaker 1: or Works and a globally recognized cybersecurity leader. What do
Speaker 1: you great to have you back with us. I would
Speaker 1: love it if you could give us a state of play.
Speaker 1: What is happening in cyberspace at this stage of war
Speaker 1: in terms of cyber attacks on Ukraine and on Russian targets. Yes, hi, Emily,
Speaker 1: great to see you again today. Certainly despite the circumstances.
Speaker 1: So we are closely monitoring activity that's occurring in Ukraine
Speaker 1: as well as abroad. In some cases, what we're seeing
Speaker 1: is what we would expect, so activity targeted at critical
Speaker 1: infrastructure and government websites within the Ukraine. We're seeing web defacements,
Speaker 1: We're seeing wiper mallar that's intended to conduct destructive attacks.
Speaker 1: What we're anticipating next will be attacks in a broader sphere,
Speaker 1: so potentially targeted towards Europe and towards the United States
Speaker 1: and specifically focused on financial services as well. As critical infrastructure.
Speaker 1: So what kind of increasing chatter are you hearing about
Speaker 1: in terms of our attacks on the United States, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's businesses or other entities. Well, so, I think
Speaker 1: that I made a comment about destructive malware attacks, and
Speaker 1: that's an area that we're certainly focused on. I think
Speaker 1: the cyber world and many of US defenders are certainly
Speaker 1: prepared for those types of attacks because they're not unprecedented
Speaker 1: in the sense we've seen them before. UH, financial services,
Speaker 1: critical infrastructure, energy, water and power supply. Those are all
Speaker 1: areas that we would anticipate that as attacks in the
Speaker 1: kinetic sphere escalate, we think that we will continue to
Speaker 1: see those types of attacks targeted specifically towards UH, those
Speaker 1: entities with the intent of taking services offline, causing disruption,
Speaker 1: potentially in retaliation for the sanctions being levied. So give
Speaker 1: us your take on the threat level, where is it highest,
Speaker 1: What kinds of businesses, hospitals, healthcare systems are they at
Speaker 1: risk potentially? So we're certainly seeing that within the Ukraine itself,
Speaker 1: and you we have that concern that we may see
Speaker 1: that escalate as we move forward within the the next
Speaker 1: stages of this attack. So Uh, you know, many of
Speaker 1: us are familiar with the not petty attacks which occurred
Speaker 1: within Ukraine years ago. While I'm not convinced that we
Speaker 1: are going to see an exact duplication, I think any
Speaker 1: businesses that had their international organizations with entities and ties
Speaker 1: to Ukraine certainly need to be prepared to be segmenting
Speaker 1: their network, be identifying and detecting this type of activity
Speaker 1: in advance, and really be prepared to detect and respond
Speaker 1: quickly to the types of attacks we might see moving forward. Now,
Speaker 1: one of the world's most successful ransomware group was targeted
Speaker 1: for aligning itself with Russia. Do you think we're going
Speaker 1: to see more of this? Well, I think the space
Speaker 1: is incredibly dynamic. You're seeing certainly a lot of emotions
Speaker 1: that are generated rightfully so from what we're seeing going on,
Speaker 1: and so from that perspective, certainly the tax that occurred
Speaker 1: against the Conti ransomware gang that you're referring to, I
Speaker 1: think anytime there's a significant leak of data, we're going
Speaker 1: to make sure that there's information that can be learned
Speaker 1: from it and that we can better secure our defenses
Speaker 1: moving forward based on the information that's learned from that leak,
Speaker 1: and obviously it's no secret that Russia is a stronghold
Speaker 1: for hackers and state sponsored attacks. How can that sort
Speaker 1: of hub stand up to attacks from around the world. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be interesting to see how
Speaker 1: that plays out. Emily right, We've seen attackers really leverage
Speaker 1: information against one another. We've seen a lot of organizations
Speaker 1: really unified based on this invasion, and one of the
Speaker 1: things that I'm heartened by actually is that I've never
Speaker 1: seen the cybersecurity community come together more from the perspective
Speaker 1: of sharing front intelligence. We have rival organizations who are
Speaker 1: sharing information very appidly. Certainly a lot of information being
Speaker 1: shared between the private and public sectors, and I've never
Speaker 1: seen it at the speed with which we're seeing it.
Speaker 1: So I'm cautiously optimistic that that is going to help
Speaker 1: in this circumstance. So what do you think the next
Speaker 1: stage is, how do you see cyber warriors, whether from Ukraine,
Speaker 1: around the world, or inside Russia itself, upping the annie. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you're going to see a lot of organizations
Speaker 1: really banding together to share that information. Our teams are
Speaker 1: working seven around the clock to make sure that we
Speaker 1: are understanding specifically what's going on on the ground, but
Speaker 1: I think as the kinetic warfare on the ground plays out,
Speaker 1: then many of us anticipated that cyber would have been
Speaker 1: the primary domain used already. We're not seeing that as
Speaker 1: much yet as we expected, so I anticipate that we're
Speaker 1: going to see that more moving forward, depending upon how
Speaker 1: the ground war plays out over the coming days and weeks.
Speaker 1: All right, I wonder what more? Senior Vice president at
Speaker 1: Polo Alto Network, Twindy, thank you for your perspective on this.
Speaker 1: Coming up, the role of crypto in the Ukraine War.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be joined by aval Labs President John Woo
Speaker 1: to talk about the responsibility of platforms at this critical moment,
Speaker 1: the power of crypto for good or bad, and much more.
Speaker 1: Next Scloomberg, time now for our crypto report. With bitcoin
Speaker 1: spiking as sanctions on Russia go into effects, Bitcoin rebounding
Speaker 1: from a weekend sell off, jumping as much as following
Speaker 1: growing speculation that crypto could be used as another means
Speaker 1: of payment in the wake of sanctions against Russia. Joining
Speaker 1: me now to talk about the role of crypto in
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian conflict. AVA Labs President John Woo along with
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Shinnali Bossi, John, thank you so much for joining us. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we saw a lot of volatility over the weekend, bitcoin spiking.
Speaker 1: Now talk to us specifically about what you see driving
Speaker 1: these moves based on what's happening in Ukraine and Russia. Well, ironically,
Speaker 1: I think bitcoin has rallied on this false narrative that, um,
Speaker 1: with sanctions, you know, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are different avenue
Speaker 1: for Russians to move money around. That's absolutely false and
Speaker 1: it's incorrect. Um. People like to hold onto this old
Speaker 1: narrative that you know, bitcoin is a black box and
Speaker 1: its censorship resistance, but people forget it's a crypto, is transparent,
Speaker 1: so it's not a black box. It's actually like an
Speaker 1: open box, class box where everyone can look inside, see
Speaker 1: all the transactions and then be able to decipher, you know,
Speaker 1: if they're abnormal movements around. So I think there's been
Speaker 1: speculation that caused bitcoin to go up recently, but reality
Speaker 1: is it's it's not a good way to do fraud.
Speaker 1: So that are you saying bitcoin shouldn't be rallying to
Speaker 1: this extent, to the extent that it's rallying the good
Speaker 1: reason why it's rally is because crypto has been able,
Speaker 1: with the speed and efficiency, be able to raise over
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars for Ukrainian families that needed. It does
Speaker 1: highlight the technology in a different sense as well. It's speedy,
Speaker 1: it's scalable, it's also very fast, and it could be
Speaker 1: done for a lot of good causes. That said, you've
Speaker 1: got crypto exchanges under pressure from the public to cut
Speaker 1: off Russian clients. Jesse Powell, CEO of KRACK, and said
Speaker 1: they can't do that unless there's a legal requirement to
Speaker 1: do so. So why shouldn't we imagine that Russian billionaires,
Speaker 1: for example, could use cryptocurrency to circumvent sanctions on Russia.
Speaker 1: So I think Jesse has a good point here. Um
Speaker 1: that would be equivalent if I link it up to
Speaker 1: your previous UM thing on star Link with Elon Muss.
Speaker 1: It could be like, Okay, you're sending bad messages over
Speaker 1: the Internet, so let's cut off internetfort everyone coming out
Speaker 1: of the Ukraine and the Russians own. It's impossible to
Speaker 1: cut off the whole country and know who's a good
Speaker 1: and who's not a good actor. So from Kraken's perspective
Speaker 1: or from other exchanges perspective, it would not be right
Speaker 1: to just cut people off like that, especially when there's
Speaker 1: good coming out of it, with the twenty million rays
Speaker 1: for childerboll causes in Ukraine. You know, John, there's kind
Speaker 1: of two issues to think about here when we're thinking
Speaker 1: about what's happening across the world and crypto. One is
Speaker 1: this idea which I think you're hitting on earlier about
Speaker 1: wealthy Russian individuals who are looking to evade sanctions. And
Speaker 1: then another issue entirely, which is folks who live in
Speaker 1: Ukraine or people who live in Russia, the ordinary person
Speaker 1: who wants to move their money into crypto because they're
Speaker 1: worried about being able to be working with their bank
Speaker 1: or being able to transact in rubles. How much of
Speaker 1: a reality is that And do you see people who
Speaker 1: are in this scenario start move more to crypto because
Speaker 1: they need to. Yeah, A lot of the activity I
Speaker 1: suspect recently in the last couple of days has been
Speaker 1: very retail driven. There have been third party analytic firms
Speaker 1: that have done analysis on this and crypto to ruble
Speaker 1: that exchange about thirty um um thirty I think about
Speaker 1: thirty billion or thirty about thirty billion has been moved
Speaker 1: in the last couple of days. Um, that is most
Speaker 1: likely in the sizes of that that's been moved around
Speaker 1: have most likely been from retail. It's definitely not the
Speaker 1: size of a Russian oligarch or a sovereign doing it.
Speaker 1: So um, if you look at the data, it suggests
Speaker 1: that it is retail people doing the flight to safety
Speaker 1: because the Russian ruble is down. And historically the adoption
Speaker 1: of cryptocurrencies in emerging markets where there is a currency
Speaker 1: that is not doing well has until there was more
Speaker 1: adoption in Latin America and emerging markets in Middle Eastern
Speaker 1: emerging markets because is the worry of inflation and the
Speaker 1: de value currency. So I think in this case it's
Speaker 1: the same thing, uh, individuals worrying about their local currency devalue.
Speaker 1: You know, there's been so much talk about Swift and
Speaker 1: banning Russia from Swift and certain Russian entities from Swift.
Speaker 1: How is the crypto community viewing this? And also you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder John, is there a chance for crypto companies
Speaker 1: to start joining on to the Swift network instead? So
Speaker 1: I think first on the first point, UM, most people
Speaker 1: in the crypto community sympathize with the unfortunate citizens of
Speaker 1: the Ukraine. So in order to you know, cut off
Speaker 1: the way to exchange payment for the oil and gas
Speaker 1: of Russia is I would be I would be surprised
Speaker 1: if any crypto people view that that sanction is too harsh.
Speaker 1: That's the first thing. A second thing is crypto is
Speaker 1: a very decentralized um concept and abstract, so it's hard
Speaker 1: for anyone firm or any protocol to just regulate like that.
Speaker 1: The beauty of it it is decentralized UM. It's transparent,
Speaker 1: but it's decentralized so that anyone can get access to it.
Speaker 1: John At this point, we haven't seen any sanctions impacting
Speaker 1: the movement of cryptocurrency. But given all of this increased attention,
Speaker 1: is that something you're expecting. Are you expecting any additional
Speaker 1: regulation or sanctions that could impact the movement of digital assets?
Speaker 1: If there were, you would really be hurting individuals in
Speaker 1: Ukraine and individuals in Russia. You're not going to be
Speaker 1: hurting the sovereign state. You're not going to be hurting,
Speaker 1: you know, the treasury of Russia, which I think has
Speaker 1: about six billion dollars worth of UM dollars, as well
Speaker 1: as close to that amount in gold. I would worry
Speaker 1: about gold more than I would worry about UM crypto,
Speaker 1: because you really would be cutting the individuals off. All right,
Speaker 1: interesting port John Wu of Ava Labs, thank you for
Speaker 1: bringing us some of that additional context. Along with Bloomberg's
Speaker 1: a story, we continue to watch Uber is speeding up
Speaker 1: the sale of its steak in a taxi joint venture
Speaker 1: with Russian internet search company Yandex. The ride hailing giant
Speaker 1: will also remove Uber executives from the board of Yandex.
Speaker 1: Uber doesn't hold any shares of the publicly traded Yandex entity,
Speaker 1: but does have a stake in the venture that was
Speaker 1: valued at about eight hundred million dollars at the end
Speaker 1: of one but Uber, of course now trying to distance
Speaker 1: itself from that sale. The pressure on tech companies to
Speaker 1: use their outside influence to react to Russia's invasion of
Speaker 1: Ukraine continuing to mount, from social media to streaming to
Speaker 1: ride sharing, tech companies are enforced to take a stand.
Speaker 1: For more on this, I'm joined by Bloomberg Business Weeks,
Speaker 1: Ashley Vans, and of course the host of Hello World
Speaker 1: actually great to have you with us. You spent time
Speaker 1: in Ukraine's third largest city, which is also it's tech hub.
Speaker 1: What is significant about this place in the context of
Speaker 1: the war that's happening now and what do we need
Speaker 1: to know about it? Well, yeah, you know, I went
Speaker 1: to the cities called Denepro. I went there a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. It's a fascinating place. People might not know,
Speaker 1: but during the heyday of the Soviet Union, Dnepro was
Speaker 1: was the major supplier manufacturing hub of the Soviet Union's
Speaker 1: I C, B M s and then also their most
Speaker 1: sophisticated rocket engines and rockets for for space missions. And
Speaker 1: you know, it has this multi decade um history of
Speaker 1: just incredible engineers and scientists that live there, some of
Speaker 1: the best schools in Ukraine, and and so you it's
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's a fascinating place that really is the
Speaker 1: heart of Ukraine's engineering prowess. Now, you suggested that this
Speaker 1: city could become a target given the depth of engineering
Speaker 1: and science talent. I know you've been calling some of
Speaker 1: your sources. What's happening there now? Is it? Is it
Speaker 1: a target? Yeah? Well, you know, in the first days
Speaker 1: when the attack began. I was immediately looking to see
Speaker 1: what was going on. There's a there's a factory they're
Speaker 1: called Usmash, which is is the factory where all the
Speaker 1: i CBMs and rockets come out of. There was a
Speaker 1: question of would the Russians just try to blow it up,
Speaker 1: would they try to take it over? And and sees
Speaker 1: these assets my friends there. Early on there there was
Speaker 1: a huge explosion that took place on the outskirts of
Speaker 1: the city. People thought it might be the factory. All
Speaker 1: the reports that I've seen so far, it seems to
Speaker 1: be that the factory is safe. The people there are
Speaker 1: under a lot of pressure. I have friends who were
Speaker 1: um in public relations who are now you know, making
Speaker 1: Molotov cocktails and taking up guns, and nobody's really clear
Speaker 1: on what the Russians want with these assets if the city.
Speaker 1: We've been hearing about a number of companies that have
Speaker 1: been pulling their employees out of Ukraine if they can. Meantime,
Speaker 1: we're also seeing pressure for companies to cut ties with Russia.
Speaker 1: As we were just talking about crypto exchanges being asked
Speaker 1: to kick off their Russian clients. Uber distancing itself for
Speaker 1: trying to distance itself from yandex. Netflix just came out
Speaker 1: today and said we're still going to serve Russia. What
Speaker 1: do you make of the choices these big global companies
Speaker 1: are facing about how to use their influence to make
Speaker 1: it hurt in Russia. It's it's interesting because Russia, along
Speaker 1: with the U. S and China, is one of the
Speaker 1: only places that has kind of it's its own Internet
Speaker 1: where you have all the services you could imagine in
Speaker 1: the Russian language. So there's some question of we kick
Speaker 1: off these US and European based services, there are Russian
Speaker 1: replacements for all the stuff. You know, I think on
Speaker 1: the whole US and European companies have had to make
Speaker 1: compromises for many years now to operate in Russia, and obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, the state of affairs now puts into question
Speaker 1: if they're willing to continue to keep making those compromises.
Speaker 1: And and just in the last month, Russia has been
Speaker 1: leaning on the tech companies to make a new set
Speaker 1: of compromises around you know, having people in Russia behind
Speaker 1: these services and some of their data, and so, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, if every there was a moment for these
Speaker 1: companies to sort of pick sides and stop making compromises.
Speaker 1: It would seem like this is it. If anything, we've
Speaker 1: seen the you know, strength of the Ukrainian people and
Speaker 1: individuals on the ground rallying. You mentioned your friends making
Speaker 1: Molotov cocktails to stand up to this Russian invasion. How
Speaker 1: do you think this sort of deep bench of engineering
Speaker 1: and scientific talent and and companies that have been you know,
Speaker 1: being built in Ukraine for many years now could potentially
Speaker 1: help this effort. Well, you know, it's sad. I've already
Speaker 1: seen I cover aerospace a lot, and there's a number
Speaker 1: of aerospace startups in Internet bro and and their engineers
Speaker 1: have been pulled out of the country already, two places
Speaker 1: like Bulgaria and in some of the surrounding countries for safety. Um, certainly,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean there's a sense of Russians are
Speaker 1: obviously very good at computer science, at hacking, and so
Speaker 1: are the Ukrainians as well, and so I'm sure they
Speaker 1: can they can lean on that bench of talent there
Speaker 1: on the whole. It's it's a little sad to see,
Speaker 1: you know, what's happening to the tech sing because of this.
Speaker 1: Certainly something we're going to continue to watch. Thank you
Speaker 1: for bringing us that side of the story. Bloomberg's actually vanced,
Speaker 1: and that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology
Speaker 1: to an In tomorrow, we're gonna be sitting down with
Speaker 1: Zoom CFO Kelly Steckelberg offer the company's latest earnings report,
Speaker 1: talked to you about the latest on the war, and
Speaker 1: much more. This is Bloomberg