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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: taking control of your personal data today. Trust me, I'm

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Speaker 1: constantly working on this for years myself, and here's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity for you to take matters into your own hands

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Speaker 1: as well. All right, hello there, welcome to the Wednesday

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Speaker 1: episode of the Chuck Podcast. And as we like to

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Speaker 1: say in electioneers, if it's Wednesday, it means somebody voted

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Speaker 1: somewhere on Tuesday. Obviously, the big Tuesday story was Illinois. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate those that followed look that to me,

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Speaker 1: the story of Illinois is something I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: into further actually on Tomorrow's on the on the Thursday

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Speaker 1: episode of the podcast, which is I think we are

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Speaker 1: going to look at Illinois as the as the as

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Speaker 1: the shining example of what's wrong with politics today and

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Speaker 1: how money has become too influential on this because what's

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Speaker 1: sort of distressing about what happened in Illinois on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: night is the fact that the story is about the

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Speaker 1: super PACs and the interest groups and which interest groups

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Speaker 1: went are lost, not anything about like the candidates were secondary.

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Speaker 1: And this is a it's one of those we have

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Speaker 1: we have We've somehow crossed some threshold that has made

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Speaker 1: candidates themselves a secondary feature of a political campaign, which

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Speaker 1: tells you something is way out of whack. And the

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Speaker 1: fact that we sort of deal with this in a

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Speaker 1: such normalizing way is very distressing. So uh, look, there's

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Speaker 1: and and and as important as that story is, I

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Speaker 1: do want to spend a lot more time on it

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Speaker 1: in tomorrow's episode. But let me give you a quick

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Speaker 1: rundown of what we got for today, obviously, because I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to overdo the election results business with Illinois,

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Speaker 1: because I hope many of you tuned into the live

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Speaker 1: stream and Crystal is and I earlier on Wednesday broke

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Speaker 1: it down on his podcast, and normally we tape on Mondays.

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Speaker 1: But this week because of my travels, Yes, I went

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Speaker 1: to the wbc UH second semi final and that was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Actually I want to share share that experience with you

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Speaker 1: in a few minutes as well. But let me do

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Speaker 1: the quick rundown of what I got going on today.

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Speaker 1: We've got to look we the There's there's one story

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Speaker 1: that matters in American altics right now. It's the war

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Speaker 1: with we'ron. It is in some ways dictating everything, and

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Speaker 1: it is you can already actually see some political impacts

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Speaker 1: in ways that people haven't noticed yet, and I will

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Speaker 1: point those out to you. But you know, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the well. I called it quicksand he's in quicksand, And

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Speaker 1: he's in quicksand and he's in a Chinese finger trap.

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Speaker 1: And the more he tries to pull away, the more

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Speaker 1: he's getting He's getting sucked into both traps. On that one,

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Speaker 1: I've got it. Yesterday was the Illinois primary. So what

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Speaker 1: do I have for you in my top five list,

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Speaker 1: my top five all timers? And let me tell you,

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Speaker 1: Illinois is, shall we say, extraordinarily rich with content when

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Speaker 1: it comes to interesting, crazy, controversial campaigns, whether for the Senate,

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Speaker 1: for governor. This is a state that has given us

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Speaker 1: to presidents and foreigm prison governors, right like, so it

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Speaker 1: is it is. It is to say it could be

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Speaker 1: the wild West at times in Illinois an understatement. And

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Speaker 1: there's also crazy stuff about Chicago politics and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things, so that you will enjoy. We'll have some

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Speaker 1: Q and A. But we got to begin with what's

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Speaker 1: happening with the Iran war and the danger of Mission creep.

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Speaker 1: And I know I continue to make this, but I

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Speaker 1: think something We're in the middle of something here that

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Speaker 1: is really disturbing, which is we are watching in real

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Speaker 1: time the unraveling of America's place as leader of the

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Speaker 1: free world. And I know that sounds a bit, you know,

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Speaker 1: apocalyptic that I'm saying this, but it's happening in real time.

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Speaker 1: His attack on NATO. Where's NATO? NATO? I asked for

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Speaker 1: their help with the straight of horn moves, the President said,

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Speaker 1: and there's no NATO to be found. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the the this war is going to be known for

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Speaker 1: military precision. And so there's you know that this is

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Speaker 1: you know the plaints that are coming from those that

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Speaker 1: support this war, well, the media is not focused. They

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Speaker 1: are only focused on all the stuff that's not going well.

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Speaker 1: But the military campaign itself is going, yes it is.

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Speaker 1: But the soft power side, the diplomatic side, the getting selling,

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Speaker 1: making sure the American people know what we're doing, Preparing

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Speaker 1: the American people for something that may be unpopular, that

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Speaker 1: may be a bit of a hit to the economy,

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Speaker 1: lining up our allies in advance planning for these things.

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Speaker 1: Gutting of the State Department of its soft power agencies

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Speaker 1: like USAID and the US Information Agency only made it

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Speaker 1: that much harder for you to have diplomatic success following

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Speaker 1: military success. And so this is the classic He has

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Speaker 1: opened a Pandora's box, and we now know all the

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Speaker 1: reasons why a bunch of previous presidents who would have

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Speaker 1: loved to have eradicated the world of this Iranian theocracy

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Speaker 1: didn't do it, because there were certain things they could

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Speaker 1: do to make this an incredibly costly war. And we're

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Speaker 1: now seeing what it is that kept Bush from doing this,

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Speaker 1: that kept Obama from doing this, that kept Biden from

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Speaker 1: doing this, that kept Trump the first time from doing this.

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Speaker 1: But we've got a situation now with this president where

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Speaker 1: there's a few things we have to be concerned about.

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Speaker 1: Concern Number one is he is not being told the

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Speaker 1: truth this resignation by a very controversial figure in his

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Speaker 1: own right, Joe Kent as head of the National counter

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Speaker 1: Terrorism Center. This is an extraordinarily important agency and it

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Speaker 1: became much more important following nine to eleven. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of concern when the decision was

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Speaker 1: made to put him in this job. This was somebody

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Speaker 1: who has spoused some extremist views on the right, questionable

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Speaker 1: views about Jewish people, a lot of flirting with the

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Speaker 1: white supremacist alt right, and he was being put in

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Speaker 1: charge of this and yet so whatever, So that's who

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Speaker 1: he is. But he was a Senate confirmed appointment that

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Speaker 1: in some ways should be in the room in theory

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Speaker 1: when presidents make these decisions. And what's been interesting is

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Speaker 1: that when he announced his resignation over the war and

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Speaker 1: basically blaming the Israel lobby, which is a frustrating anti

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Speaker 1: Semitic trope. But I will set that, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: put a pin in that here for a minute. What

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Speaker 1: we learned here is that in some ways, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the statement by Telsea Gabbert, Joe Kent's boss, who

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Speaker 1: I'm surprised is still there and hasn't resigned. Remember, her

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Speaker 1: whole rationale for supporting Trump over Harris and Biden was

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Speaker 1: all due to it was Harris and Biden that we're

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Speaker 1: going to take America into it into a war with Iran.

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Speaker 1: It turns out she is now the head of the

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Speaker 1: she's the director of national Intelligence for the presidential administration

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Speaker 1: that made the choice to go to war with Iran.

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Speaker 1: And this is a war of choice and war of choices,

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Speaker 1: just as Vladimir Putin how a war of choice is

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Speaker 1: going for him. You may be able to decide when

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Speaker 1: to start a war, but who you're going to war

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Speaker 1: against gets a say in the matter as well. And

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Speaker 1: we're learning a little bit more. And I think that

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Speaker 1: it's important to note Tulsea Gabbert's statement sort of in

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Speaker 1: reaction to the resignation of Joe Kent, and how she's

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Speaker 1: walking a line here, and I think it gets it

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Speaker 1: to the concern we all should have that our president,

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Speaker 1: the commander in chief and everybody's president at the moment,

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Speaker 1: he is representing the United States of America and he's

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Speaker 1: making these decisions. You may not like it, but he

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Speaker 1: is our president. Is either not being told the truth

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Speaker 1: or people are afraid to tell him things that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to hear. But I want to read this

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Speaker 1: statement from Tulsa Gabbard in full from Tuesday, and a

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Speaker 1: post she put on X first of all that starts

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Speaker 1: this way. Donald Trump was overwhelmingly elected by the American

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Speaker 1: people to be our president and commander in chief. Well,

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Speaker 1: already we are starting off with a bullshit line overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: He did not get fifty percent. It's funny to me

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Speaker 1: to watch all these people, and I saw Politico did

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Speaker 1: this the other day. Dude called twenty twenty four landslide.

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Speaker 1: It's not a landslide if you can't win a majority

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Speaker 1: of the popular vote. It's not a landslide if you

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Speaker 1: don't get the four hundred electoral votes. Folks, Okay, no

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Speaker 1: president has won a landslide in the twenty first century. No,

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Speaker 1: not Barack Obama in twenty oh eight, and he had

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Speaker 1: the largest victory of anybody in the twenty first century.

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Speaker 1: But I digress, because but this gas lighting of the

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Speaker 1: American people I saw, Like I said, I saw a

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Speaker 1: straightforward newsletter in Politico that knowing in the wake of

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's twenty twenty four landslide. I'm like, what does

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Speaker 1: anybody understand the definition of political landslide anymore? Please? All right?

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan won a landslide in eighty four, George H. W.

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Speaker 1: Bush won a landslide in eighty eight. Richard Nixon won

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Speaker 1: one in seventy two. LBJ one one in sixty four.

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton never won a landslide, George W. Bush never

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Speaker 1: won a landslide, and certainly a guy who's never won

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Speaker 1: fifty percent of the vote, Donald Trump has never won

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Speaker 1: a landslide. Okay, but I'm going to continue more from

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Speaker 1: Tulsea Gabbert. As our commander in chief, he is responsible

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Speaker 1: for determining what is and what is not an imminent threat. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: so it is not experts in the field. It is

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Speaker 1: the president and solely the president, who decides what's an

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Speaker 1: imminent threat that's according to this and whether or not

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Speaker 1: to take action he deems necessary to protect the safety

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Speaker 1: and security of our troops, the American people in our country.

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Speaker 1: The Office of the Director of National Intelligence is responsible

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Speaker 1: for helping coordinate and integrate all intelligence to provide the

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Speaker 1: President and commander in chief with the best information available

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Speaker 1: to inform his decisions. After carefully reviewing all the information

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Speaker 1: before him, President Trump concluded that the terrorist Islamic regime

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Speaker 1: in Iran posed an mmintent threat, and he took action

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Speaker 1: based on that conclusion. I have to tell you, man,

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Speaker 1: this statement's amazing for everything it is trying to do. Right,

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Speaker 1: Tulsa Gabbert is desperately trying to signal that she does

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Speaker 1: not believe in this war without saying she does not

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Speaker 1: believe in the rationale for this war. She wants to

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Speaker 1: keep her job. She's clearly made that decision, and she

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Speaker 1: knows that there's an audience of one that she's got

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Speaker 1: to do. But the fact that she is straining so hard, right,

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Speaker 1: it took three paragraphs for her to explain that it's

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Speaker 1: the president who decides what's an aminent thread or not.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like she would not believe. If she

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Speaker 1: thought it was an eminent threat, she would have said so.

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Speaker 1: But she did not make the choice to say it, now,

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Speaker 1: did she. So she is clearly trying to have her

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Speaker 1: cake and eat it too. She's no doubt when she

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Speaker 1: leaves office she's going to say I never stood by

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Speaker 1: that thing. I never viewed it as an in a

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Speaker 1: minute threat, but he did. So we all see where,

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Speaker 1: by the way, where it's pretty early to be in

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Speaker 1: the CYA stages of war planning, But we are in

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Speaker 1: the CYA stage, not necessarily cee Ia, but CYA. And

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Speaker 1: if you need help knowing what that is, just you know,

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Speaker 1: that's urban dictionary stuff, go figure that out. But we

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Speaker 1: are in the CYA. And this is a clear CYA

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Speaker 1: material because it sounds like Tulsea Gabbard respects the decision

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Speaker 1: Joe Kent make. But what's clear? And I remember during

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Speaker 1: the run up to the war itself and the decision

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Speaker 1: that was made, a lot of people were asking, well,

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Speaker 1: what where what does Tulsa Gabbard thing? Is she in

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Speaker 1: the room? Right? This is somebody who essentially staked her

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Speaker 1: entire political reputation on being convinced it was the Democrats

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Speaker 1: that were going to start a war with Iran, not

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Speaker 1: the Republicans, and so just the heir, she was trying

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Speaker 1: to justify her bizarre flip flop and you know, to

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Speaker 1: pay no attention to her potentially being you know, compromised

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Speaker 1: by other international entities. Then instead she was just concerned

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Speaker 1: about a president that might start an open ended war. Well,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the open ended war. And she now works

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Speaker 1: for the president that she claimed wasn't going to do that.

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Speaker 1: But here we are. And there's a few things about

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Speaker 1: this Joe Kent resignation, right, This is look, this is

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Speaker 1: somebody who was not qualified for the position anyway. Trump

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Speaker 1: gave it to him, almost as a thumb in your

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Speaker 1: eye of the intelligence community. This was a pope right,

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Speaker 1: putting Telsea gabbartt and Joe Kent. There was done to

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Speaker 1: send a message to the to the sort of the

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Speaker 1: non partisan intelligence community, that I have no respect for

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Speaker 1: what you do, and we're going to put a couple

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Speaker 1: of incredibly semi crazy skeptics in charge of you. And

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Speaker 1: yet the president had no intention of ever having these

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Speaker 1: people in a room. And so I look at the

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Speaker 1: Kent resignation through the following there's a variety of ways.

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Speaker 1: First of all, he's a fascinating Rose test, right. You

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Speaker 1: can read his statement and if you know nothing about it,

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Speaker 1: and you know whatever your personal views are, you can

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Speaker 1: apply it to your feelings about him. If you're frustrated

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Speaker 1: by all the you know, the the anti Semites that

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Speaker 1: are trying to use Israel as an excuse to say

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Speaker 1: they're not anti semitic, and and how they're phrasing some

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Speaker 1: of these things. You can do that if you want

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Speaker 1: to say, see even Joe Kent thinks there was no

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Speaker 1: rationale for war, you can do that right. Whatever it

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Speaker 1: is he can provide in some ways, I think people's

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Speaker 1: reaction to Kent and the resignation, particularly in the political space,

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Speaker 1: will tell you more about the point of view that

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Speaker 1: person has not necessarily anything to do with Kent, but

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Speaker 1: it is going to be I think everybody's going to

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Speaker 1: be curious the first time he does an interview and

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Speaker 1: talks about what evidence did you see and what was

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Speaker 1: out there? What are the terrorist threats and so on

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Speaker 1: and so forth. But like Marjorie Taylor Great, you know,

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Speaker 1: there were some members of the Trump coalition that believed

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Speaker 1: what he said. There were some people like Joe Kent,

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Speaker 1: who aligned himself with the with the far right, sort

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Speaker 1: of xenophobic wing of the Republican Party and saw a

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Speaker 1: fellow traveler in Donald Trump. You know, Marjorie Taylor Green

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Speaker 1: has said you know that, you know she heard what

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Speaker 1: Trump said and really and felt like, oh, he's thinking

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Speaker 1: what I'm thinking. He's saying what I believe, and then

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Speaker 1: when he doesn't practice what he says, right, And this

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Speaker 1: is Donald Trump's been doing this forever. It's what many

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Speaker 1: of us tried to tell a lot of people over

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Speaker 1: the last ten years, said, Donald Trump just tells anybody

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Speaker 1: what they want to hear in the moment in order

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Speaker 1: to make his sale or in order to get him

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Speaker 1: to vote for you, or whatever it is. And he's

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Speaker 1: done it, and he put together a unique coalition, right,

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Speaker 1: It's been an uncomfortable coalition. And we're starting to see

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Speaker 1: what happens when you make decisions, right. You see little

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Speaker 1: We've seen little pieces of evidence when he made the

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Speaker 1: decision to be bought off by the tech companies and

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Speaker 1: not do not actually go after big big tech in

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Speaker 1: ways that he promised, or certainly it was implied through

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Speaker 1: the bann and wing of that MAGA movement right, who

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Speaker 1: was just as focused at getting going after big tech

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Speaker 1: as the left was. And he's protecting the AI industry

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Speaker 1: with trying to prevent any regulation. That has cost him

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Speaker 1: some support among some in his magabase. Starting this war

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Speaker 1: has cost him more support there. So this is I

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Speaker 1: look at Ken in one way as he might just

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Speaker 1: simply be a true believer. You don't have to agree

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Speaker 1: with him. You may find his political views vile, you

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Speaker 1: may find his views about Israel and Jews and race

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Speaker 1: in America to be terrible, but he believed them and

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Speaker 1: he aligned with a movement that he thought and he

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Speaker 1: also didn't believe in more military adventurism. And suddenly he

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Speaker 1: feels let down. And that's what you do in a

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Speaker 1: presidential administration. Right. We had a pretty high profile State

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Speaker 1: Department official during the Biden administration who resigned over the

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Speaker 1: over Joe Biden's gossip policy. And it was a big

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Speaker 1: deal then, And it's the right thing to do if

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Speaker 1: you can't, if you can't serve a president on a

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Speaker 1: specific issue, and you're kind of charged to do it.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, the head of the counter Center

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Speaker 1: and counter terrorism, right he's now got to monitor the

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Speaker 1: incoming and there is an increased amount of incoming threats

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Speaker 1: potential threats thanks to this decentralized network by the IRGC

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Speaker 1: that is basically declared open season on Western ASSA and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot more concern. This is the thing that

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Speaker 1: I think the president, among the many things the President

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Speaker 1: has not done for the public is prepare the public

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Speaker 1: for the fact that we are now less secure today

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Speaker 1: than when this Iran war started. We know that his

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Speaker 1: goal is to He thinks eradicating this regime and preventing

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Speaker 1: them from getting nuclear weapons will make us safer. And

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Speaker 1: maybe he's right, but it's not making us safer right now.

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Speaker 1: We are now less safe. And oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: everything costs more because of this war, and ultimately that

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Speaker 1: may be how he gets punished politically, not over the inconsistency,

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Speaker 1: not over the hypocrisy of more wars, but simply that

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Speaker 1: he's presiding over an economy that is now in worse

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Speaker 1: shape because of his decision to launch the Iran war.

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Speaker 1: But this resignation is not a small deal. It's a

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Speaker 1: big deal because it's yet I mean, how many more

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Speaker 1: little you know? This is his coalition has been fracturing

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Speaker 1: now for a good six months, and we've watched it.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things I like to tell people is,

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Speaker 1: you know, everybody's got a line on Trump. And I

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Speaker 1: think you've heard me say this, but not every Trump

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Speaker 1: doesn't cross the line. At the same time for everybody,

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Speaker 1: your line on when you walked away from Trump may

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Speaker 1: have been a lit lot sooner than the line that

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Speaker 1: I did, or the line that somebody else did, or

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Speaker 1: the line that Liz Cheney did, the line that air

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Speaker 1: Adam Kingsinger, Right, we know the line for John Bolton,

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Speaker 1: the line for Mike Pence, the line for John Kelly.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the things you learn about Trump

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Speaker 1: over the years is that eventually he alienates everybody around him,

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Speaker 1: every single person not related to him, and maybe he

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Speaker 1: alienates those related to him too. But I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: family dynamics. Everybody's got weird family drama, So don't I

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Speaker 1: Actually what I'm going to kind of minimize that a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but I will go more in the profession.

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Speaker 1: He has done it his entire I went through this

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Speaker 1: every six day years. He has to get a new

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Speaker 1: set of advisors because he's literally alienated everybody around him.

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Speaker 1: This is what he does. Just look at the how

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Speaker 1: few people from term one came over with term two? Yes,

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Speaker 1: a few did, But I think we have one of

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Speaker 1: the more underreported stories about Trump two point zero is

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Speaker 1: how few Trump one point zero staffers who they chose

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Speaker 1: not to go. He would have taken them. Don't think

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't. There was something he didn't want I get that,

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Speaker 1: but there were plenty that he would have loved to

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Speaker 1: have come back, and they're like, I ain't riding that

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Speaker 1: roller coaster again, and so they have chosen not to

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Speaker 1: do it. It says a lot, and I think that

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Speaker 1: this is what we're seeing, is that we continue to

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Speaker 1: see a slow erosion, and I describe it. I've always

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Speaker 1: described it as a river bed. Every day you look

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Speaker 1: at it and maybe it doesn't look like it's eroded

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Speaker 1: that much, and then you're going to wake up in

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Speaker 1: November and go, what happened to Republican turn out? That's

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Speaker 1: the potential situation he's in. This episode of The Chuck

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Speaker 1: wards and this issue at a straight of hormones. So

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00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: we've got a granting president, very upset. He's like begging,

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Speaker 1: now China to come help. This would be interesting. So

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Speaker 1: he wants NATO to He wanted NATO to get involved

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Speaker 1: in basically secured to straight of horm moves. Now he's

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Speaker 1: asking for other countries help. Maybe he gets help from

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Speaker 1: China to do this. And his argument is, hey, China

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Speaker 1: needs this oil as much as anybody needs it. In fact,

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Speaker 1: is the whole world needs a say, the straight of

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Speaker 1: horm moves to be a place for safe passage for

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Speaker 1: shipping period. It doesn't matter whether you're a country that's

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Speaker 1: allied with the United States, that you are the United States,

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Speaker 1: or that you're an adversary of the United States. Everybody

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Speaker 1: needs this shipping lane open. Now. One thing about the

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Speaker 1: United States has been and this is where we this

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Speaker 1: is where and I want America to be the world's

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Speaker 1: beat cop, particularly in the oceans. Okay, and that's what

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Speaker 1: I do. Expect this to help keep shipping lanes open.

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Speaker 1: That that's what we do. It doesn't sound but it

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Speaker 1: sounds like the President was so dismissive of the warnings

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Speaker 1: about the straight of horror moves and this was always

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Speaker 1: the geographic advantage, and so many analysts about Iran, I've

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Speaker 1: pointed this out. This was always their sort of I

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00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: don't want to call it a get out of jail

430
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: free card, but this is what has prevented an attempt

431
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: to decapitate this regime by previous presidents. It's the fact

432
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: that they can. And now Trump's learning this himself. It

433
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: doesn't take much for them to louse it up. Right.

434
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: By the way, loos is a word we don't use enough.

435
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: It's nice to bring it back. If Trump wants to

436
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: bring back the East word, God bless them. That's less

437
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: things though, And that's the point, right And now you've

438
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: got a regime headed up by the son of the

439
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: former Supreme leader who has no incentive to cut a

440
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: deal with the United States. And what deal with the

441
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: United States, Israel, or anybody in the region. What deal

442
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: could you cut with this regime that kept the regime

443
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: in place and made you feel safe and secure. So

444
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how he walks away from this, and

445
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: I was unseeing it earlier on Tuesday on Casey Hunt

446
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: Show and Casey Hunt had Liam Pennan, a former Defense secretary,

447
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: former head of the CIA, and she was just asking

448
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: him tactically what would it take to secure the straight

449
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: and he basically said, look, we can do this, but

450
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: it's probably going to take boots on the ground. I mean,

451
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: you can't just do this with airpower power. You're going

452
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: to have to clear the coastlines. Right. And this is

453
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: what's so I think scary about the decision to start

454
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: this war is how easily this mission you're going to

455
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: get mission create. And this was always the concern about

456
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: trying to do this. And here we are no intent

457
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: of ever sending ground troops, but now you have to

458
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: secure the straight of hormones. And now Trump's in a

459
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: situation where he's alienated a big chunk of the America's allies,

460
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: right a normal president, what we've already we've seen examples

461
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: of this. Bush one and Bush two went out of

462
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: their way to get allies bought in in advance, not

463
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: after the fact, but you do it in advance. H

464
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: Bush one had had more success than Bush two did

465
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: in keeping allies on board. But you know what Bush

466
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: two didn't do. He didn't go out of his way

467
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: to alienate NATO or alien eight countries that didn't get

468
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: on board. He just gave more love to the countries

469
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: that we're on board. One of my favorite you know,

470
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: don't forget you forgot Poland a response one time in

471
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: an interview he did when somebody was questioning the lack

472
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: of sort of of an alliance in the Iraq War,

473
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: and he says, hey, you forgot Poland. But the point

474
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: was there was an effort, right, and you have to

475
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: do these things. And now what Panetta was explaining is

476
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: that we may we did not leave ourselves the flexibility

477
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: to put together the forces we need immediately to keep

478
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: this straight open. And so now we've got you know,

479
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: we've got to move things. This is why it may

480
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: be that he's begging for outside help because we don't

481
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: have the resources in place in the moment to do this,

482
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: not unless you're going to do ground troops, and even

483
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: if it's a limited number of ground troops, it is

484
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: what's probably going to be necessary. So now he's in this,

485
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: he's boxed himself in and this and you're going to

486
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: get a version of Vietnam syndrome here potentially, which is well,

487
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: if you walk away, now the regime stays in place.

488
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: The strait is weaponized by this regime. They know that

489
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: their days are you know that they're never going to

490
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: be accepted into the community of the Middle East. So

491
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: there's always going to be a threat of terrorism or

492
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: a threat of this. So there's going to be constant

493
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: concern and it will gradually raise the price of everything.

494
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: If you pull out, you kind of weirdly, even though

495
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: you may had a massive tactical victory, it'll look like

496
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: retreat and defeat. If the regime stays in place and

497
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: you cut some uncomfortable deal and just hoping that they'll

498
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: keep the straight open because you've somehow agreed to keep

499
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: the regime in place after you have made this big

500
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: effort to try to topple the regime, and then say,

501
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: oh no, this wasn't about regime change. You know, or

502
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: you're in or you have the mindset that you're in

503
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: for a diamond for a dollar, right, which is what

504
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: happened early in the parts of Vietnam. And that's the

505
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: concern here, right, And this is the you know, this

506
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: is why Chinese finger trap. There's no good answer here,

507
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: and he's boxed America in. It is there is every outcome,

508
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: every potential idea can lead to a bad outcome for

509
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: the United States, either short term or long term. But

510
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: what we've really done, and the biggest sort of development

511
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: over the last seventy two hours, is a confirmation that

512
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: we we are we are alone. We are alone in

513
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: this one. And it's because of everything he did over

514
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: the last particularly over the last year and a half

515
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: in alienating our allies, alienating NATO, alienating the EU, I mean,

516
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: the whole thing with Greenland and now here we are

517
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: and now he's got the uncomfortable decision. What does he do.

518
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: He's got to get out of this thing. But he

519
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,239
Speaker 1: can't just walk. You know, he's the one that like

520
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: created the situation that's put the straight orfom moves into

521
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: this into a critical situation where we are stuck and

522
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: our economy is potentially the global economy is stock dealing

523
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: with this choke point. And it's his. It was you know,

524
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: it's his fault. You know, he started it, so he's

525
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: got to finish it. It's a it is This is

526
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: more than just his personal legacy. His personal legacy is

527
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: toast right, this is other than you know, the the

528
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: kindest thing you're being able to say about his presidency,

529
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: I said it was consequential. That word's going to be

530
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: doing a lot of work for a lot of people

531
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: who are going to try to sound not trying to

532
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: make a judgment of whether this was a good or

533
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: a bad presidency. It was a consequential one. It's been

534
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: an MRI, that's for sure, for a lot of people

535
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: and a lot of entities and a lot of things.

536
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: But this is, this is this has the potential to

537
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: be as epically bad for America's reputation, America's ability to

538
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: execute both soft and hard power and build alliances. This

539
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: is going to be as damaging, if not more damaging

540
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: if we're not careful than Vietnam in the Second rap

541
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: War and this situation. He's in nothing but bad options.

542
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: But you know, I think he is stuck with the

543
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: pottery barn roll here. He broke it and he's going

544
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: to have to fix it. He broke the straight he's

545
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: going to have to fix it, and we're now stuck

546
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: having to do this alone. Now if we commit to it,

547
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: my guess is other countries eventually will help. Perhaps the

548
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: Gulf States will help pay for it at least, But

549
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: we need some real diplomacy here. We haven't had any

550
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: we've had very we've had the lack of diplomacy, right,

551
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: the gutting of USAI D. The gutting of these things

552
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: put us in this terrible situation. And I don't know,

553
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, I think other countries will help us out

554
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,479
Speaker 1: because they have their own economic interest to protect, and

555
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: in some ways Trump's counting on this, but ultimately, we've

556
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: got to go first, and we're going to have to

557
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: do this. And I have a and you know, I

558
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he should. I'm just not sure what

559
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: other choice he's going to have because he's so alienated

560
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: the rest of the world with this. And if the oh,

561
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know how we should feel if the

562
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: outcome is the US and China doing this in a

563
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: joint operation together, which is weirdly kind of looks like

564
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: what he's sort of kind of trying to propose. So this,

565
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, everything else is small potatoes at the moment

566
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: in our political world. This is going, this is this

567
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: is going to this is defining the political weather for

568
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: the campaigns, This is everything at the moment, And there's

569
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: no doubt in my mind he's trying to find a

570
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: way out of this. And the fact in the matter

571
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: is he may have boxed himself in and now he's

572
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: got more political problems with this resignation, which only opens

573
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: up more wounds on his populist right. It's not great

574
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: for Jews in America because you're going to continue to

575
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: have this sort of this this caricature painted of support

576
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: for Israel. That's you know, you can be pro America

577
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: and critical of Trump. You can be pro Israel and

578
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: critical of Yahoo. And I just encourage everybody to realize

579
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: this and please keep that in mind before we go.

580
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: There's a few things that I think are the first

581
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: signs that were still darting to see. I think that

582
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: we're starting to see some impact, at least right now,

583
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: short term softening of support for Republicans in general. There's

584
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: a couple of new polls coming out of South Carolina

585
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: that showed Lindsey Graham's personal approver ratings not doing very well.

586
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: This Annie Andrews, who you've heard on this podcast, much

587
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: more competitive in these head to heads than anybody's expecting. Now, look,

588
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: we've been here before with Amy Harrison's campaign back during COVID,

589
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: and I think in hindsight it turned out that was

590
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: probably that polling. But in this I might be more

591
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: skeptical of if I didn't see some numbers out of

592
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: Ohio where we see in that governor's race, Vivia Ramaswami.

593
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: Now I've seen multiple poles in a row that show

594
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: him trailing doctor Amy Actin. And remember who she is.

595
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: She was essentially the Governor Mike Dewin's chief medical advisor

596
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: during COVID, became sort of a famous face Ohio. And

597
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: certainly you know, I I and i've I've spent some

598
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: time with her. I'm i'm i've I've found her to

599
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: be as good of any public health official we dealt

600
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: with and during the COVID pandemic, and just straightforward honest,

601
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: I was shocked she got into politics. She didn't strike

602
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: me as a political person, but I think the experience

603
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: dealing with COVID sort of got her frustrated and made

604
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: her decide to jump into politics. But we've now seen

605
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: a couple of polls in a row that you Ramaswami

606
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: trailing her, And again you know it's it's it's anecdotal.

607
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: It's also you know, it's a data point, and you

608
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: know sometimes data points are scattery, scatter shot. So We'll

609
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: continue to wait for more, but I'm certainly've yet to

610
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: see any evidence that this is helping unite Republicans. If anything,

611
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: it is dividing the country in ways that is not

612
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: good I think for any incumbent Republican on the ballot.

613
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: There So just a few things there, and then finally

614
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: it's worth noting what's happening in the main Senate race

615
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: and the decision by Janet Mills, the governor there, to

616
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: go to go hard negative on her primary opponent, Graham

617
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: Plattner and talk about the controversial tech Nazi inspired or

618
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: themed tattoos and some of his shall we say, uncouth

619
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: tweets and things like that. This is what primaries are for.

620
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: And all I would say is is if you are

621
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: in the national party, you know sometimes I kind of

622
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: think nasty primaries only strengthened the potential primary winner and

623
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: it actually takes the wind out of the sales of

624
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: the party on the other side, Like I mean, Donald

625
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: Trump became a little bit more immune by the general

626
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: election in sixteen to some of Clinton's attacks because everybody

627
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: in the Republican primary tried the same attacks, whether it

628
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: was Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Chris Christy, John Kaysik, you

629
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: name it right, Ted Cruz, and they didn't work with

630
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: the in the primary, and they kind of weirdly immunize it,

631
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: almost like for voters immunize them. And I would say this, so,

632
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: whether you're on the Grand Platiner side of things, the

633
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: Susan Collins side of things, or the Janet Mills, the

634
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: person most disappointed by this should be actually Susan Collins,

635
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: because you don't want your opponents inoculating themselves on their

636
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: negatives during the primary. You want you're hoping that they

637
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: don't get litigated during a primary, so it looks like

638
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: new information in a general election. So you know, for

639
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: those on the Platiner side who are mad at the

640
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: Mills folks, you should be glad, Hey, get it out

641
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: of the way. Litigate this now, find out if you've

642
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: got immunities to this. If you're on the Mills side

643
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: of things, look, the only way you were going to

644
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: win is you had to make the case that he's unelectable.

645
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: That's what primaries are for. And if you're Collins, you're

646
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: probably a little disappointed that Mills has chosen to do this,

647
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: But in some ways you get to find out just

648
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: how just what could work or what doesn't work, etc.

649
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: But I also think it shows you you know, so

650
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: this you know, I happen to think it's healthy. This

651
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: is why clearing primary fields can sometimes give you false

652
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: sense of security because you don't end up vetting your

653
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: primary candidate, right your potential nominee. That it's better to

654
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: have it vetted. You know, for instance, I don't we

655
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: didn't you know, the taller Eico negatives that I think

656
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: Republicans are going to drop on his head weren't really

657
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: used in the Democratic primary. So this is going to

658
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: come across this new information of people and could be

659
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: more effective in the case. And that I think that's

660
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: one way to I think at least look at what

661
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: the main decision is. But it's you know, this is

662
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: there's going to be a lot of hand ringing over

663
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: this decision by Mills, but at the end of the day,

664
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: it's it's probably the rip the band aid off moment

665
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: that if you're over there among Senate Democrats, you may

666
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: not like any of this, but better to have it

667
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: litigated with primary voters then somehow have a non aggression pack.

668
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: You don't do it. It becomes a whisper campaign, but

669
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: you don't quite test it through, and then you have

670
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: an unvetted nominee right where the voters didn't get a

671
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: chance to make that decision on their own. All right,

672
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: let me take a break. When we come back my

673
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: conversation on the investigation into who should be blamed for

674
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: killing Roe? Let's thinking a break. We'll see on the

675
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: other side. Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I

676
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: know from personal experience. I was sixteen when my father

677
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678
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: us in the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow.

679
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Speaker 1: Myself sixteen trying to figure out how am I going

680
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Speaker 1: to pay for college and lo and behold, my dad

681
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Speaker 1: had one life insurance policy that we found. It wasn't

682
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Speaker 1: a lot, but it was important at the time, and

683
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: it's why I was able to go to college. Little

684
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685
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686
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694
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695
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696
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Speaker 1: dollars a day that would be billed monthly. As of

698
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699
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00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:02,320
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703
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704
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: life insurance is something you should really think about it,

705
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: especially if you've got a growing family. Well, many of

706
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: you had actually asked been asking me questions about abortion

707
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: and the midterms, and so guess what it turned out,

708
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: I think to be a good conversation to have on

709
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: this issue. And you know, as I think I said

710
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: during the interview itself, I'm a believer that you know,

711
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: these issues, you know, they may ebb and flow in

712
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: significance to the voter and a given election cycle, but

713
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: issues like abortion rise back up when people are particularly

714
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: when people feel a bit more satisfied about their economic situation.

715
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: And right now that may explain why we are seeing

716
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: less about reproductive rights and a lot more about the economy.

717
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: All right, well, it is that time. It is our

718
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: Wednesday pot cast, and we just you know, I know

719
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: you guys, some of you enjoyed our livestream coverage of

720
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: the Illinois primary night. Well, in the spirit of Illinois,

721
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: that's what my top five list. As you know, I've

722
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: been excitedly, frankly, using some old research that I've been doing,

723
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: frankly for decades about the all time great campaigns, not

724
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: necessarily presidential campaigns, but statewide campaigns of all time. And

725
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: so I thought this year, you know, instead of letting

726
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: that continue to gather dust in this unwritten book that

727
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: at some point I'm going to write that, instead, I

728
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: share this fine research with you, my fellow political junkies.

729
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: And you know what, I think I enjoyed doing this

730
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: and this is sort of what originally got me into politics.

731
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: I enjoyed a good campaign, yarn. So in the spirit

732
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: of that, my top five, my top five all time

733
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: Illinois races in history, top top consequential, ones that had

734
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: huge impact, ones that were just fascinating, all sorts of things.

735
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: And I'll tell Illinois, let's just say, it was really

736
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: hard to narrow things down to five. I could have

737
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: included a mayor's race or two in Chicago that I

738
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: think would have been worthy of an all time top five.

739
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: I didn't, but Harold Washington certainly deserves honorable mention the

740
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: eighty three Chicago mayor's race there, but I didn't do that.

741
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: This is a tough one. Hey, when you're the state

742
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 1: of Illinois, right, Illinois might be the only state where reformers,

743
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: future presidents, and convicted governors have all come out of

744
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: the same political ecosystem. So it makes Illinois so rich. Now, look,

745
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna gotta lie to you. I don't expect

746
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: any of the Illinois races this cycle to crack our

747
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: top five in all time, but hey, it's a state

748
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: that has produced two presidents, Abraham Lincoln and Barack Obama.

749
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: And has sent four governors to federal prison. Every single

750
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: campaign has a shadow on it in this state. So

751
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: if Texas is the home of some high stake soap

752
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: operas over the years, from Monpa the Monpa Governors, if

753
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: you will, to LBJ to what could be an all

754
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: timer this year with that Senate race, Illinois is home

755
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: to the gritty political thriller and it's got quite a

756
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: few all time races to it. Today we're looking my

757
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: five most consequential statewide campaigns in Illinois history. So look,

758
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: I want to make because the corruptive, the corrupt governors

759
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: are not really going to be a feature of the

760
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: old time top five campaigns because in many cases we

761
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: didn't know they were corrupt during the campaign itself. He

762
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: found out later, But you know, we should note four

763
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: governors have gone to prison. Otto Kerner was a bribery

764
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: scandal tied to a racetrack stock deal. Dan Walker was

765
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: a reformer who turned felon after leaving office. George Ryan

766
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: was the guy who essentially sold state licenses in exchange

767
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: for bribes, and then of course Rob Lgoyevitch, who famously

768
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: tried to sell Barack Obama Senate seat and it's Blagoyevitch

769
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: that gave us one of those all time great lines

770
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: that get used today. I've got this thing and it

771
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: is efing golden, except he didn't say efing. That thing,

772
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: of course, was the Obama Senate seat, since he controlled

773
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: the appointment process. So do keep in mind as we

774
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: go through my top five races here that Illinois ambition

775
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: and scandal. Let's just say they tend to travel together. Look,

776
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: number one on the list is pretty easy, and to me,

777
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: it's not even a close calls. It's Barack Obama's two

778
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 1: thousand and four campaign, a campaign that may never maybe

779
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: never should have happened or never should have been successful,

780
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: but he benefited from not one but two candidate collapses

781
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: in order to secure a victory for the United States

782
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: Senate that would ultimately lead him to the presidency. This

783
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: might be when we I ultimately will put together my

784
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: five all time US Senate races, and I will say

785
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: this one is going to be I don't want to

786
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: say it's guaranteed, but LBJ and this one right when

787
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: you involve a future president in your in your Senate campaign,

788
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: is this controversial or unique? It may qualify for an

789
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: all time top five in the nation's history. So but

790
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: let's let me tell you the story a little bit.

791
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: And look, I'm not going to give you all the

792
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: details that I'll say for the much longer version of

793
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: the story, but it starts with the primary that most

794
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: people forget, the Democratic primary. The early front runner wasn't

795
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: Barack Obama. Was a well funded stock trader and guy

796
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: who helped game the system on blackjack, sort of basically

797
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: an old card counter named Blair Hall, and at the

798
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: time he was spending twenty five million dollars of his

799
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: own money. In two thousand and four, back when twenty

800
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: five million dollars with a lot of money, Hall was

801
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: leading until his divorce records were unsealed, revealing allegations of

802
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: domestic abuse. His campaign collapsed almost immediately. It cleared the

803
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: lane for Barack Obama. At the time still fairly wasn't

804
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: that well known of an Illinois state senator, was not

805
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: getting huge donations, was doing well at these campaign forms

806
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: next to Blair Hall. But Blair Hall had all the

807
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: money and Illinois's an extraordinarily expensive state to campaign, but

808
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: that had collapses. Obama wins the Democratic primary with just

809
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: over fifty percent of the vote, and it appeared to

810
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: set up what was going to be an all time

811
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: Senate race. We were going to a couple of them

812
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: that year. Dashelthuone was happening in South Dakota and we

813
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: were in of Obama. Jack Ryan, No, not Jack Ryan

814
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: from the Tom Clancy novels, but this Jack Ryan had

815
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: sort of the Hollywood good looks, if you will, and

816
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: he was himself a former investment banker. His then former

817
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: wife was a fairly well known actress at the time

818
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: named Jerry Ryan. She was known for her character she

819
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: played on one of the Star Trek spinoffs called Voyager. Well,

820
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: their divorce records were unsealed and they included allegations that

821
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: Ryan had pressured her to go to sex clubs in

822
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Obviously, today's politics, this might have

823
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: actually helped him in a primary these days, but it

824
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: did not help him at the time. It was one

825
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: of them. More I remember one of the punchlines I

826
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: used to use in public speaking gigs. I said, Jack

827
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: Ryan was the first Republican first candidate for office whose

828
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: political career came to an end because he wanted to

829
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: have sex with his wife. Now he wanted to have

830
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: sex with his wife in a public place, at a

831
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: sex club. But it was unique in that you had

832
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,479
Speaker 1: a guy lose his political career, not because he wanted

833
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: to have sex with somebody else's wife, but with his own.

834
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: Still the part of Republican Party panicked. Ryan withdrew and

835
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 1: then the Republican Party went on a basically their own

836
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: version of American idol, Illinois idol, desperately looking for a

837
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 1: replacement candidate. Mike Ditka was seriously considering it at one point,

838
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: the former Chicago Bears coach. He ended up saying no.

839
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: And who did in Illinois settle on? But Alan Keyes,

840
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 1: a conservative commentator from Maryland who of course had pretty

841
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: much no ties to the state of Illinois, in fact,

842
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: had run for I believe the Senate in Maryland at

843
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: one time ran in Illinois. But they were desperate for

844
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: a candidate, and in you know, a Senate residency rules

845
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: are pretty loose and lax. It's not like the governor's race.

846
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: So he becomes the replacement candidate. Obama wins, But it

847
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: is worth noting that the more important race for Obama

848
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: was the primary. Because he wins the primary, he becomes

849
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: this sort of gee whiz winner if you will, meaning

850
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: everybody's like, who is this guy? Check out? This guy's

851
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: name is Barack Hussein Obama. He just won a Senate primary.

852
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: All of the candidates around him are collapsing. The guy's

853
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: going to win a Senate seat, let's you know. And

854
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: he was getting enough traction and interest among donors that

855
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: somebody suggested to John Kerrey at his political at his

856
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: nominating convention in Boston, that he had to tap Barack

857
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: Obama to be the keynote speaker. Well, probably the single

858
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: most important speech that Barack Obama had ever given. So

859
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: if he doesn't accidentally win that Democratic primary, he doesn't

860
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: get picked to give that speech. There's not a red

861
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: America of blue America. It's a red, white, and blue,

862
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: et cetera. We may not have a president Barack Obama.

863
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: This Senate race, it has it all sex scandals, card counting,

864
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. And what was weird about it?

865
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: It was never the campaign was never about Barack Obama.

866
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: It was always about somebody else. Blair Hall, Jack Ryan Allen, Keys,

867
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: Mike Getka, it was it was just one wild and

868
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: weird race. And it delivered one of the most consequential

869
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: figures in modern America. So number two on my list

870
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: is one that was a bit historic in nature, but

871
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: it was accidentally historic. It was the election of Karrol

872
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: Moseley Brown, the first black woman to the United States Senate.

873
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: On the race itself is often remembered for the result

874
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: and the historic result, the campaign was something else entirely.

875
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: The real fight was between the incumbent Senator Alan Dixon

876
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: and a wealthy primary challenger, a self funder named Al Hoefel.

877
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: Hoefeld spent millions attacking Dixon. Dixon was weakened by one

878
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: key vote nineteen ninety two. It was triggering in this

879
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: and it was this early Illinois primary that triggered the

880
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: idea that this was going to become the year of

881
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 1: the Woman in nineteen ninety two, at least in Senate races.

882
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,720
Speaker 1: Because Dixon had supported Clarence Thomas during the Anita Hill hearings.

883
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: The Democratic primary turned into a bitter two way war,

884
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: very expensive between Dixon and Hoefeld. But there was a

885
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: third candidate in the race, a lesser known office holder

886
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: from Cook County. The Cook County Recorder of Deeds was

887
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: her office title at the time, woman by the name

888
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: of Carol Molseley Braun. And look, she was considered kind

889
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: of an afterthought in this race because she didn't have

890
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: the financial resources of Hoefeld or of the sitting senator.

891
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: But as Dixon and Hoefeld tore each other apart, suddenly

892
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: Braun benefited from sort of not being the one either

893
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: slinging mud or being hit by the mud, and she

894
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: was able to consolidate an interesting group, an interesting group

895
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: of voters, Black voters, reform minded voters, and voters that

896
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: were angry about Thomas Sure. The vendor diagrams overlapped, but

897
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: it got her thirty eight percent of the vote, which

898
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: was enough to win. She knocks off a sitting senator

899
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: and a primary Alan Dixon. Hollfeld loses, ends up finishing third.

900
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: She wins the general election by a fairly comfortable margin.

901
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: In ninety two. Illinois was still considered a swing state

902
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: back then, but everything was moving left Bill Clinton's victory

903
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: and she wins fifty three forty six. But for me,

904
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: it was a reminder of the dynamics, and a reminder

905
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: was an early lesson for me, because we'd get one

906
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: literally a month later in Wisconsin, very similar situation where

907
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: you had that Russ Finegeld ended up win a Senate seat.

908
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: He was the third candidate in what appeared to be

909
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: a two way brutal primary that got so nasty voters

910
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 1: decided not to support either of the top two candidates

911
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: and supported the candidate that wasn't engaging in the mud fight,

912
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: just like with caramel Ley braun. So, it was really

913
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: a reminder of the dynamics of three way elections and

914
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: they're very difficult. We're seeing We saw that again, right

915
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: third party groups attack one candidate in a crowded primary,

916
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: they're able to get rid of that candidate. We saw

917
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: that in a couple house races in these Illinois primaries,

918
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: and yet they still didn't get the candidate they wanted

919
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: to win because the dynamic ended up benefiting. You know,

920
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 1: in CANADAA attacks Candida B. It was candidacy that benefits

921
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 1: and that to me was what that campaign also taught us.

922
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,479
Speaker 1: My third one on this list and this is something

923
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: I'm rarely going to do, but it's so impactful you

924
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: have to include it, and that is the nineteen sixty

925
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: presidential campaign of Kennedy Nixon in the state of Illinois

926
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: because it created a myth or a legend that still

927
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: sort of percolates in our politics today. Right, Kennedy won

928
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: the state of Illinois by just under nine thousand votes,

929
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: less than two tenths of one percent, and of course,

930
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 1: the legendary Richard J. Daily, mayor of Chicago and head

931
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: of the Democratic machine, he is credited with delivering these

932
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: enormous margins Cook County. Nixon of course dominated downstate. Really

933
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: that's always been the case. It's more conservative downstate the

934
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 1: further you know, you southern Illinois is in more southern

935
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: than Illinois. That is one of the jokes you'll get.

936
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: But it is in this race that the legend was

937
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: created that in some ways still still popularizes right wing

938
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories to this day. For decades, Republicans have claimed

939
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: that Chicago turnout was suspicious, some precincts reported near total voting,

940
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: and that the results may have been manipulated. There's never

941
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: been any definitive proof that fraud changed the outcome, but

942
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: the perception mattered, and it's stuck, stuck forever. Right. Nixon

943
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 1: really popularized a lot of a lot of conspiracy theories

944
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 1: for the right that Donald Trump still carries out today

945
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: and this is one of them. Nineteen sixty helped cement

946
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: a belief inside the Republican Party that urban political machines,

947
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: especially in big democratic cities, could manipulate outcomes. It just

948
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: you know, and because in many cases, because there's so

949
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: many votes to count, they take longer to report. Right

950
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 1: our Illinois, you know, our coverage of the Illinois primaries.

951
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: You know, we were waiting for Cook County because they

952
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 1: count in one big center and so you know, Republicans think,

953
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: oh my god, we're winning, and then Cook County comes in,

954
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: we're losing. Well, if Cook County came in first, you

955
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: never would be winning, you know. It just you know,

956
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: it's the order that votes get counted is different in

957
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: every state, but it can create the appearance of confusion

958
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: and corruption, especially if you want to weaponize it and

959
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: exploit it. So that's what sort of you know, the

960
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: suspicion didn't start in nineteen sixty, but it really gave.

961
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: It became the modern example, and it got tied to

962
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 1: a presidential election, and the belief has echoed ever since

963
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 1: in debates over city vote counts, skepticism about large urban

964
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: turnout arguments about election integrity that continue today. But there's

965
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: an important reality that gets lost when talking about Kennedy,

966
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: Nixon and Illinois in nineteen sixty. Let's say Nixon had

967
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: one Illinois Kennedy, what is snow on the presidency? It

968
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: wasn't the decisive state. Illinois was dramatic, it was close,

969
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: it was controversial, but it was not decisive. But the

970
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: mythology mattered more than the math. Nixon, of course, chose

971
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: not to challenge the result because flipping Illinois wouldn't have mattered.

972
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: He still would have lost the presidency, but it entered

973
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: political folklore. This is the state where the machine may

974
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: have helped pick a president, and it gave the right

975
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: a grievance that they still mythologized today and tried to

976
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: create legislation to deal with, even though it is simply

977
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: a symptom of where the people live. Number four on

978
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: my list is Paul Simon v. Charles Percy nineteen eighty four.

979
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: Percy actually gets an honorable mention for a previous race,

980
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: and I'll talk about it here. This one was just

981
00:57:54,200 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: great political drama. Paul Simon was the Democrat most famous

982
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: for his bow tie, and he was the challenger the incumbent,

983
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: Republican incumbent Charles Percy, was moderate, nationally respected, and arguably

984
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: was beginning started to Percy's loss in this election was

985
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end of the moderate Republican in Illinois.

986
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: Still a few more would get elected governor in the nineties,

987
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: but it was when it was starting to come to

988
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: an end because conservative started to get frustrated with moderate

989
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: Republicans and this race. Paul Simon benefited the most from this,

990
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: because you don't win a Senate race in nineteen eighty

991
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: four against a Republican incumbent if you don't have some

992
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: Reagan voters on your side, and Simon had Reagan voters

993
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: on his side. Here. Percy himself, a lot of people

994
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: were shocked that he ran again in eighty four because

995
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: he almost lost in seventy eight. And during that campaign

996
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: he ran one of the most famous ads in political

997
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: history because he was the first time an incumbent basically

998
00:58:55,440 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 1: admitted to misdeeds. It was the I'm sorry ad worked

999
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: the ad he's candidate to camera and in this case

1000
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: incumbent to Cameron. He said, I have made mistakes, I've

1001
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: disappointed some of you. For that, I'm sorry. Well it worked,

1002
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: he survived, but six years later the environment had changed completely.

1003
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: The fact that Percy loses in a Reagan landslide year,

1004
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: Simon gets fifty, Percy forty eight. Simon beat him by

1005
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: focusing that Percy had basically gone Washington, too distant from

1006
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: the voters, and he was a bit too much of

1007
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: an elitist. And it worked. But what really helped Simon

1008
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: the most is that you actually had super conservatives, just

1009
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: like we had that example in Texas for John Tower,

1010
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: when the conservative when the liberal Democrats decided not to

1011
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: help out the conservative Democrats and actually go elect a Republican.

1012
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 1: That's what happened here. The conservative Republicans retired of the

1013
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: moderate Republicans and they decided to screw it, let's get

1014
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: him out and take over the party. And well it

1015
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: got Simon that Senate seat, even in Reagan's landslide. Here

1016
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,919
Speaker 1: and the fifth one I put this is this one. Look,

1017
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: it's very debatable, and I'm fully I am fully prepared

1018
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: for many of you to say, ah, this doesn't belong

1019
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: in your top five. But is the nineteen eighty six

1020
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: Democratic primary chaos and the takeover by the Larouchies. Lyndon

1021
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: LaRouche is this crazy figure in American politics, has run

1022
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 1: for president multiple times from prison, and he has his acolytes,

1023
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: and you know, all if you're of a certain age,

1024
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: you remember Larouchie setting up trying to recruit people to

1025
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: their movement in front of post offices, and that used

1026
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: to be their primary place of recruitment. You know, in

1027
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: d C. You'd see him on the on the corners

1028
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: near right there, near the old Executive Office building and

1029
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: at Union Station you'd see them and it was always

1030
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, they had a huge conspiracy, you know, there

1031
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: was they could tie liberal. It was sort of one

1032
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: of these things that talked about, you know, the Queen

1033
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: Elizabeth was a drug cartel and all sorts of weird stuff.

1034
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: But it had a real following there and probably its

1035
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: peak following was in the eighties, and it was eighty

1036
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: six that it had the peakest of followings. It's the

1037
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: strangest election Illinois may have ever had because two Larouchies

1038
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: entered Democratic primaries for state wide offices, not the top

1039
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: of the ticket, but for other state wide offices. And

1040
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: it was a low turnout, low information primary, and voters

1041
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: picked names they didn't recognize, and two LaRouche candidates. One

1042
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: the lieutenant governor nominee was a gentleman by the name

1043
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: of Mark Fairchild of Larushi, and a woman named Janis

1044
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: Hart won the nomination for Secretary of State. Well, the

1045
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: Democratic Party was just stunned that essentially their party got

1046
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: hijacked by the Larushies. The gubernatorial nominee was their failed

1047
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,919
Speaker 1: nominee from four years earlier, Adelete Stevenson, the third Yes,

1048
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: the son of the one time presidential nominee who would

1049
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 1: lose twice to Dwight Eisenhower. Stevenson refused to run with

1050
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: these Larushies, did not want to head the ticket right,

1051
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: so he dropped all of the Democratic ticket completely and

1052
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: created a new party, the Illinois Solidarity Party. Because they

1053
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out how to get rid of the Leuracies

1054
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave, they couldn't, so essentially they abandoned the party,

1055
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 1: which in hindsight was probably the mistake. Obviously the election

1056
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: descendant in Chaos, Republicans won landslide. It was one of

1057
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: the biggest victories eighty six, a huge Democratic gear nationally

1058
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: by the way, but not in Illinois. Because of this stupidity,

1059
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: and it was it really was a was a reminder

1060
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: and actually was an early canary in the coal mine

1061
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: about how much Democrats back then they were always so

1062
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: focused on national politics and not not minding the store

1063
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: at home, right, And when you think that six years

1064
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 1: later Republicans would just would just sort of out maneuver

1065
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: and out organize the Democratic Party and state legislatures all

1066
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: over the country take over a redistricting process. When you realize,

1067
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: look at this mess that was taking place in a

1068
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, the ultimate machine state, Illinois, and the Democratic

1069
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: primary was paying party was paying so little attention of

1070
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: what was going on inside its own party. The two

1071
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: Larouchies come in, I think, you know, in hindsight, it

1072
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: turns out this was just another piece of evidence of

1073
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: a party that was not was not sort of paying

1074
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: attention to the little things. Every election matters, Every down

1075
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: ballot election matters, every state legislative race matters. Republicans understood

1076
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: that a lot sooner in the modern era than Democrats did,

1077
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: And that Larouchie race is one I think for the books,

1078
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: few that I didn't include but could have been worthy.

1079
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: And some of your some of you seventy two governor,

1080
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: guy named Dan Walker. He borrows. It became the thing

1081
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: to do. He had walking with Lawton Chiles did it

1082
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: in Florida. Lamar Alexander walked the state of Tennessee, and

1083
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: Dan Walker walked the State of Illinois to quote defeat

1084
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: the machine. The irony is that he would win the

1085
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: governor's race and eventually himself be sent to prison. Rod

1086
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: Bolgoyevitch two thousand and two Governor. The irony to this

1087
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: race is that he wins because of the George Ryan

1088
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: corruption scandal. He actually he gets to run against a

1089
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: guy named Jim Ryan, no relation to George Ryan, who

1090
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: was the Jim Ryan was the ag. There was all

1091
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: sorts of ryety of the Dan Ryan express away. There's

1092
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: so many Ryan's in Chicago. That's why I think the

1093
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: Democratic primary they try to always have it. In Saint

1094
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 1: Patty's day, right, it teaz but just having the last

1095
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: name of Ryan was a penalty. In O two, Bogoyevitch

1096
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: wins because of his scandal and of course becomes literally

1097
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: the next governor. I mean, this was astounding. The governor

1098
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: elected basically the two elected governors in a row ninety

1099
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: eight George Ryan to Blagoyevitch both end up serving time,

1100
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: and like I said, Harold Washington nineteen eighty three, Chicago

1101
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: mayor might be another one I'd put on there. So

1102
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: there's my list of the most consequential Illinois center races.

1103
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: I could you could do it? You do a mini

1104
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: series on Obama two thousand and four. There's so many

1105
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: butterfly effects of that one. But as you can see, Illinois,

1106
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: one thing it has is a rich, rich history of

1107
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: fascinating campaigns. So Netflix, if you're listening and you're ready

1108
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: to greenlight this series, I could literally do an entire

1109
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: season based on the state of Illinois and it's every

1110
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: week Kok Ear and cook ear campaign. So move over,

1111
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy, have I got an American horror story for you?

1112
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: Illinois politics? Ask Chuck. First question comes from Johnny from

1113
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: New Orleans. He says, Chuck really appreciate your analysis and

1114
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: wanted to ask about something that's been frustrating me. When reporters,

1115
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: often women, are publicly denigrated or have their motives questioned

1116
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: by President Trump or members of his administration while they're

1117
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: simply doing their jobs, why don't more journalists push back

1118
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 1: forcefully in the moment While still remaining professional. It seems

1119
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: like letting those comments go and challenge risks normalizing them

1120
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: or making seemed incredible from your perspective as a journalist.

1121
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: What's the calculation in those situations. Well, I can tell

1122
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 1: you what the calculation is now, John, which is like,

1123
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: do you want to become a story? Right? Every journalist,

1124
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 1: especially of a certain generation, and I'm of that generation

1125
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: where you let the idea is you let your words

1126
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: speak for themselves, you let the reporting speak for themselves.

1127
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 1: You don't feel like you should have to defend your work.

1128
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest mistake we've made collectively over

1129
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: the last twenty five years. And I wrote a whole

1130
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: long op ed about this in The Atlantic some fifteen

1131
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: years ago, ten twelve years ago, about the mistake we

1132
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: made not fighting back when Fox character assassinated so many

1133
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: of us for a three or four year period there

1134
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: and how just we didn't defend our work this specific situation.

1135
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: So I can tell you how I handled myself in

1136
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 1: these situations. Now. We didn't have anybody like Trump, okay

1137
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: to deal with. When I briefly covered Bush but covered

1138
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: more Obama than anybody else in my days at the

1139
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: White House. But when you're in that press pool situation,

1140
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: right when you when you and I put it this way,

1141
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: Robert Gibbs could be Robert might be listening. He's a friend.

1142
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: I consider him a friend. We've known each other way

1143
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: too long. But we could have our battles publicly on air.

1144
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: You can go back and find some good YouTube clips

1145
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: of our back and forth. And he could be a

1146
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: little tough, and he could be a bit dismissive. And

1147
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: what if he got dismissive or they got defensive and

1148
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: they were trying to avoid a question in that press

1149
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: room and it was and then it was my turn

1150
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: to ask a question. You know, I get called on.

1151
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: Instead of asking my question, I'd simply I'd like to

1152
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 1: get the answer to that follow up you didn't answer.

1153
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:55,919
Speaker 1: Let me repeat the follow up that was set over there.

1154
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: To me, that is the professional way to respond. So

1155
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: when he denigrates Caitlin Collins or something like that, ande

1156
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: and then mister President, I'd like to repeat the question

1157
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: you again, and then you literally repeat Caitlin's question in

1158
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: that situation that he denigrates, but you make it clear

1159
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: trying to get the question answered. So I think that's

1160
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: the best way to do it, because ultimately you're you know,

1161
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: I always say, when you're asking questions of the president,

1162
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: you're a stand in for the public, so you know,

1163
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 1: and so get to get him answered. And when you're

1164
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 1: working in a collective environment, even though you compete with

1165
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: other news organizations, ultimately we're all trying to do the

1166
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: same thing, which has surface more information out of this administration.

1167
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: And in that sense, you should have the back of

1168
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 1: your colleagues. Now I can say today's calculation is there's

1169
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: fear of retribution from Trump, there's fear of losing access,

1170
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: and then there's the pressure that comes from their bosses,

1171
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: particularly if you work for a more well known news

1172
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,679
Speaker 1: brand that where the corporate parent cares more about their

1173
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: image than the journalist's integrity. Which again I'm gonna say something.

1174
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: All I'm looking I'm waiting for the three heads of

1175
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: the corporations that own the three broadcast news divisions that

1176
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,679
Speaker 1: Brendan Carr has threatened to stand up for those journalists,

1177
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 1: and they have not publicly stood up for those journalists.

1178
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: Brian Roberts, Bob Eiger, David Ellison, speak up, speak up.

1179
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: If you don't, you're sending the message to your journalists

1180
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: that you do not have their back. So what Brendan

1181
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 1: Carr has said is operable if you do not speak

1182
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 1: up and defend your journalists. So get your shit together, guys,

1183
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: and defend your journalists. You don't have to attack the president.

1184
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: You can defend your journalists without attacking anybody and making

1185
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: it political. Defend their integrity. This is something you have

1186
01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: refused to do for years, and here we are. But

1187
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 1: in this case, to your question, John, that's to me

1188
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: the best way to do that. Next question goes from

1189
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: Jason from Virginia. Hey, check. One thing I really enjoy

1190
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 1: about the new format is a chance to ask questions

1191
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:11,799
Speaker 1: and interact with the show. I'm curious there are lessons

1192
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 1: from sports fandom that could help reduce polarization and politics.

1193
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: For example, I might feel about Miami as a uf

1194
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: alum the way you feel about Florida, but we could

1195
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 1: still easily talk sports and laugh about it. Why does

1196
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: politics feel so much harder? And how do we get

1197
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: back to recognizing the things we actually agree on. I

1198
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 1: think about this a lot when people attack kirk Herb Street,

1199
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: and I've probably taken a shot or two at Herb

1200
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: Street over the years because I've been frustrated about something

1201
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 1: ESPN has done and right, and there's this feeling that

1202
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: he's the voice of college football and so and you know,

1203
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: people will say, well, he's in the tank for Clemson,

1204
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 1: or he's in the you know, because his kids are

1205
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: on Clemson's team, or he's in the tank for Ohio State,

1206
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: or he's in the tank for the SEC. And then

1207
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 1: I think about it when he does the ridiculous, which

1208
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: I kind of think is ridiculous. He will he will

1209
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: make predictions about every game except the ones he calls,

1210
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: and you're like, you know, I don't I think you

1211
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 1: can sort of. I get it's sort of like a

1212
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 1: phony attempt at integrity, and I just think that's silly.

1213
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 1: But I have empathy for him because I think this.

1214
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: You know, I can't tell you how many college sports

1215
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: fans watch a game and are convinced the announcers are

1216
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: against them. I have a relative. I'm not going to

1217
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 1: single out their relationship to me, because I'll just let

1218
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: them assume I'm talking about them, but not actually have

1219
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: them know I'm talking about them in this case, But

1220
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,759
Speaker 1: I have a relative who always assumes that the announcers

1221
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: are against Miami. And look, there has been era Parsigian

1222
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,719
Speaker 1: was against Miami when calling Notre Dame games. That was obvious.

1223
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: And we saw it in the famous eighty seven game

1224
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: when Miami kicked Notre Dame's ass and our Eric cried

1225
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: on television that how dare somebody run up the score

1226
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,640
Speaker 1: against Notre Dame when Notre Dame all they did was

1227
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 1: run up the score when he was their co But

1228
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: that neither here nor there. But the point is, nine

1229
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: times out of ten, the announcers are just trying to

1230
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: essentially go with the game, right. If the game is

1231
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: going in one direction, you sound like you're in the

1232
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: tank for one direction. You know, you just sort of

1233
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: move at the game. And so I've long thought about

1234
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 1: it that way, as so I put it this way.

1235
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 1: I don't take a tax personally. You know, I can't

1236
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: tell you how often I would get a You know,

1237
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: you see your your tone changed when you interviewed a

1238
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 1: Democrat versus when you interviewed a Republican. I don't think

1239
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: my tone changed. I think you're listening with a different

1240
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 1: ear because you're making a presumption about a bias that

1241
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: you think is there but you don't have evidence of it,

1242
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 1: so you're now you're going to try to use facial

1243
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 1: expressions in tone. Right, Like what I used to say

1244
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: is all right, this is this is somebody who's already

1245
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 1: a partisan. Right. I used to say, the worst people

1246
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: to talk about whether somebody's being fair or not as

1247
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 1: a partisan, because a partisan is looking for people that

1248
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 1: agree with them. They're not looking for fairness, they're looking

1249
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: for bias. That's the irony here. So the point is

1250
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:11,719
Speaker 1: is that I do think about the coverage of college

1251
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: football and the passion that's behind it and how quickly

1252
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: we assume someone's against our team or whatever, to be

1253
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: a little more patient with critics when people want to

1254
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 1: make assumptions about because what I have found is when

1255
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:31,599
Speaker 1: I have substantive conversations with a critic, they're pretty rational

1256
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: and they sort of they get exactly what I'm saying,

1257
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 1: and they kind of, while without fully acknowledging that they

1258
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: were looking at me through their own bias, not through

1259
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 1: my bias, that you can have some rational discussion. So

1260
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 1: I do in that sense. I do. But look, this

1261
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: is why I'm a big fan of using sports in

1262
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 1: my interviews with many politicians, because I do think it's

1263
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 1: a way to remind people we have plenty in common

1264
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:58,639
Speaker 1: even when we disagree. And by the way, I'm sorry

1265
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 1: you have to root for the Gators. Next question comes

1266
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: from Matthew. Matthew from Bourbon, Indiana, big fan of the show.

1267
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: How much do you think Trump's gutting of the State

1268
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 1: Department last year led to the failed planning to have

1269
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: an effective evacuation plan in the Middle EAGs during the

1270
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 1: Iranian War. As you mentioned in your previous episode, there

1271
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 1: was a large military build up prior to the launch

1272
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 1: of the war, but the State Department is the agency

1273
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,799
Speaker 1: that leads non combatant evacuation operations, not the military. Appreciates

1274
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 1: your inside Matthew, Look, it's not just that. How about

1275
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 1: dismanling USAID and failing to be a support mechanism for

1276
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: the opposition inside of Iran and helping the opposition be

1277
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: ready for a moment that we were trying to create

1278
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: for them. You know, I think part of the both.

1279
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 1: You know, this is going to be this war is

1280
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: going to be the definition of tactical success, but overall

1281
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 1: failure because we blew this, you know, we blew up

1282
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 1: our soft power capabilities over the last year and change,

1283
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 1: and those soft powder power capabilities were just not You know,

1284
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 1: you can have all the hard power you want, but

1285
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: if you don't have those soft power capabilities, then you

1286
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 1: don't have the ability to essentially use your tactical success

1287
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: to cement a diplomatic achievement. And so I think, I

1288
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:20,040
Speaker 1: think there's a direct correlation here with our failure in Iran,

1289
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: and I say, look, we should be careful here. It's

1290
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 1: it's not a lost cause yet, it's it's possible that

1291
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: there's a the regime gets toppled and we can get

1292
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 1: to a better place. But this was this was a

1293
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,919
Speaker 1: pretty poorly executed Well, we may have a tactical military

1294
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 1: victory here, it's a pretty poorly executed strategy because we

1295
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 1: don't know what the strategy is, what is the endgame,

1296
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: And now it's probably going to be filled with mission

1297
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: creep because if if you leave now, it only keeps

1298
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 1: it only keeps the regime in power, you've made things worse.

1299
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, you screwed up the global economy.

1300
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: So in order to make this, in order probably to

1301
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: keep this mistake from being worse, we're going to have

1302
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: to escalate in ways that the public's not going to

1303
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 1: find very popular. But yes, I think dismantling usaid. I

1304
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 1: think there's both indirect and direct impact. The gutting of

1305
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 1: the State Department is a huge reason why we are

1306
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 1: failing in the soft power part of this Iranian war.

1307
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 1: Last question for this episode, as comes from Dan and Fairfax. Hey,

1308
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:29,559
Speaker 1: did Governor Spamberger just tea up at GOP wave during

1309
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: the next round of state legislative elections. A lot of

1310
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:33,800
Speaker 1: what she signed in the law, we'll get activists upset,

1311
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 1: But the gun control measures might result in rural voters

1312
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 1: turning out in droves. Northern Virginians, rich In residents and

1313
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: those in the tidewater might support gun control. By I bett,

1314
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 1: it's an eighty twenty issue in the rest of the state.

1315
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 1: Thanks Dan and Fairfax. That's an interesting way of looking

1316
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: at it. I just think in general, this has been

1317
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: the most partisan start of any of any democratic governor

1318
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 1: in the twenty first century that we've had, right Warner, Caine, mccauliffe,

1319
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 1: you go through, and yet she didn't run as a partisan,

1320
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,680
Speaker 1: and I don't think she is as partisan as the

1321
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:07,640
Speaker 1: legislature is now. It's sort of like what happened to

1322
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 1: my friend Pat McCrory North Carolina. The legislature sort of

1323
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: dragged him into these conservative causes that he never wanted

1324
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: to be was running on and governing on. And I

1325
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: have a feeling spam Burger's feeling the same way here.

1326
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 1: She's the governor, but she's being dragged into, dragged into

1327
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 1: signing legislation that she may generally be supportive of but

1328
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:29,640
Speaker 1: not necessarily wanting to prioritize by a very very aggressive legislature.

1329
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 1: Right now, look, I think this is this is dangerous territory.

1330
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 1: But we'll see the numbers of the numbers. I mean,

1331
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: Northern Virginia, Richmond and Tidewater may may just be that

1332
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: much bigger of entities. I mean, this is an interesting

1333
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 1: if if guns alone or that, I think the vulnerability

1334
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 1: guns might rally your rural voters, which which certainly can

1335
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: matter a bit. I think the bigger thing is how

1336
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: partisan and sort of the you know, slamming through. I mean,

1337
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 1: I just find this entire redistricting referendum and the messaging

1338
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:12,720
Speaker 1: campaign and the gas lighting, I just, oh, I hate this.

1339
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 1: I know. I'm a good government guy. I'm a pro

1340
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,760
Speaker 1: democracy person. So I hate every part of this redistricting

1341
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 1: war left and right. Okay, this is this fight fire

1342
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 1: with fire is only going to damage everybody. I mean.

1343
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: It reminds me of a joke that my an old

1344
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 1: friend of mine named Matt Cooper, editor over at Washington Monthly,

1345
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:36,479
Speaker 1: now great reporter at Newsweek, back when Newsweek was Newsweek,

1346
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: the twentieth century Newsweek, not twenty first century Newsweek. But

1347
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: Matthew Cooper used to do some stand up comedy and

1348
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 1: he was he's and he had this riff about you know,

1349
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 1: imagine if the beer companies behaved like political candidates do

1350
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 1: in their TV ads, and you know, and bud Light

1351
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: and Miller Light went after each other, and bud Light

1352
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 1: ran an ad that's Miller like claims it's less filling.

1353
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,080
Speaker 1: But what they don't tell you, and they just start

1354
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: reading the ingredients of the beer that with the five

1355
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: syllable words and all this stuff, you know, and then

1356
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 1: you'd have a response ad going Miller going negative on

1357
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 1: bud Light. They claim they're the king of beers, but

1358
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 1: what they don't tell you is, you know, that sort

1359
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 1: of thing that eventually it wouldn't be that. As he said,

1360
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 1: people wouldn't just stop drinking Budweiser, drinking Miller like they

1361
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,639
Speaker 1: just simply stopped drinking beer. And his point was, that's

1362
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 1: what's happened to politics, right, Well, this is my concern

1363
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 1: about what Democrats have done here with this basically deciding

1364
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 1: the best way to unrig our democracy is to rig

1365
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 1: the democracy. Right. You know, the best way to enfranchise

1366
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: voters that have been disenfranchised in Texas is to disenfranchised

1367
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 1: voters in Virginia or in California. It's just not going.

1368
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 1: It's just doesn't stand up to scrutiny, right, and it

1369
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 1: doesn't pass the logic test. And all it does is

1370
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: just fuel the cynicism of politics that ultimately they just

1371
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 1: want power, and the parties will take any shortcut to power,

1372
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: and they'll use any rationale to grab power. And and that's

1373
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: that's the and and that's the cynical response from the

1374
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: voter that I fear is coming. If we're if, if

1375
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 1: we're if we're all not careful there. All right, let

1376
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 1: me get off the soapbox here, because guess what, I'll

1377
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:33,679
Speaker 1: be back in twenty four hours. And with that, thanks

1378
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 1: for listening.