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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast that has

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Speaker 2: just suffered, yet again, the indignity of a major technical malfunction,

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Speaker 2: and right at.

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Speaker 3: The point the day after we got approval from Netflix

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Speaker 3: to stream full video episodes worldwide.

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Speaker 1: Minus Korea and Vietnam. I'm so sorry. I have no

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Speaker 1: idea why.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, guys, I can't. I can't influence Netflix policy and Vietnam.

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Speaker 2: But at least we're on everywhere.

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Speaker 4: Now, everywhere Vietnam except except.

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Speaker 2: For Korea and Vietnam, which, unfortunately, my camera's not working right,

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Speaker 2: so we didn't use the webcam on my laptop, which

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Speaker 2: does not look as good, which will also not change

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Speaker 2: how ninety percent of people experience this podcast. Because it

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Speaker 2: is an audio medium, why even attach visuals to it?

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Speaker 4: To be fair, buddy, I think you look fine.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, I think you look great. Cat. You know who

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Speaker 2: looks great is our guest, kat Abou Cat. How are

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Speaker 2: you doing? Welcome back?

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Speaker 4: I'm good and now I'm a full government name. Katy.

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Speaker 2: You're right because you're running for Congress.

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Speaker 4: Because I'm running for Congress.

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Speaker 2: I have to call you something different.

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Speaker 3: Now, kat you want to give a little psa plug

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Speaker 3: for the campaign up talk.

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Speaker 4: I would love to hi everyone. I'm Kat. I'm running

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Speaker 4: for Congress in the ninth district of Illinois that goes

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Speaker 4: from uptown Chicago up to Evanston, over to Skokie, all

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Speaker 4: the way to Algonquin and Crystal Lake. It is Jerrymander

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Speaker 4: to Hell and I'm trying to represent you. I am

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Speaker 4: one of the top three viable candidates in this race.

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Speaker 4: Election day is March seventeenth. I'm the only one of

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Speaker 4: those three people that has not met with or submitted

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Speaker 4: a position paper to APAK. We are the only campaign

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Speaker 4: in this race funded by spelled dollar donations. I have

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Speaker 4: a cat nak heater. She's orange, and yeah, that's kind

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Speaker 4: of my thing when I covered the far right as

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Speaker 4: a researcher and journalist. You might have heard it before

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Speaker 4: when my microphone was dogshit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and now your microphone's better and you're running for

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Speaker 2: Congress and listeners.

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Speaker 1: Kat's my friend, and Sophie's my friend and our friend. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you can you're also included in the problem.

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Speaker 2: I get to jink on there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Robert and I took so many shots of alert

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Speaker 4: together at the Onion.

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Speaker 2: You Did launch party.

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Speaker 4: It was I was like, I bet I can do

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Speaker 4: more than you, and I did. It's the only time

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Speaker 4: I've ever even somewhat blacked out besides literally being drugged

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Speaker 4: by someone unconsensually.

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Speaker 1: That was like drinking liquid bandage.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was awful, a spicy w D forty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That that does prove your your rightfulness for the spot

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Speaker 2: that you're seeking, your ability to win them alert contest.

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Speaker 4: That was wild.

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Speaker 3: And then you and then you were like, Sophie, come

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Speaker 3: with me to the other bar and we drank something good.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember what it was.

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Speaker 4: It was like something I don't remember. I had like

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Speaker 4: five shots of Alert.

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Speaker 3: And then and then Ben took me and was and

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Speaker 3: just like his standard intro it was I remember because

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Speaker 3: it was so fucking funny, his standard intro to me,

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Speaker 3: to people whose names I don't remember, this is Sophie,

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Speaker 3: She's the future.

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Speaker 5: The funniest, funniest way to introduce so funny.

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Speaker 4: That's how I also talk about you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I do.

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Speaker 3: And then he and then we went up to chext

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Speaker 3: notes John Lemon and he's like, Hi, John Lemon.

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Speaker 4: This is Sophie. She's the future. Was so weird, like

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Speaker 4: let's get a picture together. I was like, this is

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Speaker 4: this is all on you man.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 5: I just really enjoyed and really enjoyed Robert taking a

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Speaker 5: picture of you, of our young garrison with Don Lemon

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Speaker 5: with full flash.

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Speaker 2: We got to turn it off.

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Speaker 4: The podcast we're talking about Don Lemon. We run a

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Speaker 4: party with Don Lemon and drank too much Forlor.

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Speaker 2: He really blinded with my I have one of these

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Speaker 2: huge Chinese phones that look at the fucking flight on

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Speaker 2: the back of this this this thing's flash goes off

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Speaker 2: like a Federal flash bang like Bortac. Guys don't have fair.

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Speaker 5: Cry cry a little bit normally from crying on this podcast.

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Speaker 5: It's because of something ain'tus has told me, but it's.

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Speaker 2: Really Oh, I'll make you cry, don't worry. We'll all

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Speaker 2: be before this is over. Yes, anyway, that's the right idea.

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Speaker 3: Anyways, back to the job. Really enjoyed memory Lane though.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad Cats.

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Speaker 4: I'm really glad Cats here, so good to be back.

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Speaker 2: This is this is going to be a memory lane

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Speaker 2: trip for Cat and me because Cat, you also spent

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Speaker 2: a sizeable chunk of the Oughts spending way too much

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Speaker 2: time reading about incredibly online right wing maniacs.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yes, yes, I did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So who are we talking about?

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Speaker 2: Great question? If you have, you've heard of Clivicular?

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Speaker 4: Oh my fucking god. Are we talking about Clovicular.

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Speaker 2: Today a bit? Yeah, yes, today and tomorrow we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about him a bit. We're explaining how you get from

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Speaker 2: you know, May twenty third, twenty fourteen, when Elliott Roger

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Speaker 2: goes on his shooting spree and killing spree and Ila Vista, California,

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Speaker 2: which killed six and injured fourteen and was like the

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Speaker 2: first big in Cell mass murder event, right, And it's

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Speaker 2: kind of the thing that put in Cells on the map.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess most of the audience the first time

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Speaker 2: you heard in Cell was in the wake of that

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Speaker 2: spree killing. Right. Unless you were a very online weirdo

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Speaker 2: prior to May twenty third, twenty fourteen, you probably hadn't

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Speaker 2: heard of these people. But through a series of very

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Speaker 2: unlikely and in some ways confusing events, this this subculture

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Speaker 2: that kind of comes onto everybody's radar, and the wake

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Speaker 2: of this mass murder has kind of led most recently

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Speaker 2: and really just the last couple of weeks, to a

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Speaker 2: massive degree of fame and general Internet bemusement over this

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Speaker 2: guy Clavicular. And there's a direct line between like the

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Speaker 2: first in cells and the birth of the in cell

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Speaker 2: subculture to the looksmaxing subculture, which.

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Speaker 4: Is where just smashing your jaws with hammers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, hitting your jaws with hammers, taking methamphetamine to be hot, right,

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Speaker 2: like all of that stuff.

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Speaker 3: My my first introduction to Clavicular was a random TikTok

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Speaker 3: where Logan pol was talking about how unbelievably handsome this

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Speaker 3: person is. I did not bother to look it up

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Speaker 3: because I don't care who Logan Paul thinks is handsome.

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Speaker 3: But now we're on behind the bastards talking about it,

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Speaker 3: so it all makes sense.

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Speaker 4: Reis. I want to describe just like in terms of

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Speaker 4: thank you so much for this topic, Robert, I thrilled it.

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Speaker 4: This is the exact bucked up shit, and I'm glad

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Speaker 4: we get to dive into you know me so well.

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Speaker 4: But the most fascinating thing about in cell culture is

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Speaker 4: how so much of it is like this weird both

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Speaker 4: hyper masculine and also like homoerotic subtones of what they think,

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Speaker 4: like women want. And it's like this like Chad with

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Speaker 4: which is in cell vernacular, by the way, that's like

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Speaker 4: all buff and all this stuff. When it's like I

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Speaker 4: don't know, I like my guy that runs the onion

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Speaker 4: and makes me laugh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well he's also chester maxing.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's just I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 2: We've got a new term for that, thank god.

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Speaker 4: But he's also just like he's a nice man. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: women like want in terms of being attractive to men,

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Speaker 4: The vast majority just want you to like be a

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Speaker 4: good person that's like not sexist or racist or homophobic

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Speaker 4: or bad or transphobic. Uh, make them laugh and like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, close the dishwasher, which I don't do,

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Speaker 4: so I need a guy to do.

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Speaker 2: That for me. Or it's always funny to be because

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Speaker 2: I too can't love reading in cells like talk about

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Speaker 2: like what you like the all of the mountains you

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Speaker 2: have to cross to get like a single date. Well,

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Speaker 2: you have to make sure that like your face is

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Speaker 2: no whiter than this, but at least this wide, and

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Speaker 2: like your nose like is positioned at this part of

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Speaker 2: your face, and your eyes are just far apart, and

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Speaker 2: like otherwise no one will ever love you. Whereas like

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Speaker 2: living in the real world, you realize that it's mostly

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Speaker 2: like there's no rules. It's just people like each other

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Speaker 2: or don't usually because you like someone who's like not

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Speaker 2: a dick and who has does stuff that you find

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Speaker 2: like cool and interesting and is fun to be around

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Speaker 2: and relaxing to be around and doesn't scare you all

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Speaker 2: the time by talking about like their bone structure and

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Speaker 2: hitting themselves in the face of the hammer, Like these

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Speaker 2: are the things real people want in relationships. And when

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Speaker 2: you see like the stuff in cells have talked themselves

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Speaker 2: up into believing they need to do, it's just like

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Speaker 2: you really it really makes sense, like why there's been

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Speaker 2: so many killings out of this community because it's like,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, they're just totally detached from reality, right, And

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Speaker 2: that's what we're gonna be talking about today how this group,

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Speaker 2: because what's interesting is not in cells are crazy and

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Speaker 2: it's not like, oh wow, clavicular you know the looksmaxing

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Speaker 2: subculture has its roots in the in cell subculture. It's

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Speaker 2: how has the in cell subculture been so influential because

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Speaker 2: almost everyone I know every day uses words that like

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Speaker 2: originally came out of the in cell community and have

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Speaker 2: now just become like common gen z jin alpha internet slang, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the strangest thing to me about this

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Speaker 2: is despite how fringe and extreme and like toxic and

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Speaker 2: scary the actual Inceell subculture is, they've also had this

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Speaker 2: like incredible history of like shotgunning terms and concepts into

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Speaker 2: mass consciousness that's both like really surprising and kind of worrying.

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Speaker 2: And so that's that's kind of like what we'll be

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Speaker 2: talking about this week. Awesome.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, also in a way that the right really

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Speaker 4: struggles to penetrate pop culture, but in cell culture hasn't

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Speaker 4: had that issue as much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's moved like a fucking knife through butter. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it's really been weird. So about a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks before I sat down to write these episodes, on

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Speaker 2: February sixth, twenty twenty sixth, this Twitter post that those

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Speaker 2: of you with the video podcast will see I'll read

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Speaker 2: it to everybody else went viral, reaching about twenty four

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Speaker 2: point five million people through Twitter's own unreliable but also

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Speaker 2: spreading in screencap form across every other type of social media.

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Speaker 2: I found it like with something like twenty thousand up votes,

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Speaker 2: and read it, you know, just in one post like this.

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Speaker 2: This is all over the place, and there's a good

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Speaker 2: chance you've seen and it's a post from some guy

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Speaker 2: called Chromhart six hundred, and he writes Clavicular was mid

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Speaker 2: Jester gooning when a group of foids came and spiked

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Speaker 2: his cortisol levels. Is ignoring the foids while munting and

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Speaker 2: mogging mooids more useful than SMV chad fishing in the

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Speaker 2: club And that's just such like that's an insane series

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Speaker 2: of words, Like it's completely impenetrable to people who have

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Speaker 2: not spent way too much time online. But at the

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Speaker 2: same time, it's like it's kind of enticing, Like you

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Speaker 2: see this and you're like, what the fuck does that mean? Right, Like,

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Speaker 2: and so I've seen again. Once this hits, you get

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Speaker 2: a bunch of people online talking and dissecting all of

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Speaker 2: these terms and then remixing them and taking terms like

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Speaker 2: gester gooning and throwing them out in other circumstances, not

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Speaker 2: necessarily even knowing the original use of any of these words, right,

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Speaker 2: And part of why this thing went his post went viral.

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Speaker 2: You know, Clavicular was already a very influential streamer and

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Speaker 2: influencer when this post went viral, Otherwise it wouldn't have.

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Speaker 2: But it went viral not just because of his actual content,

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Speaker 2: but because the post itself was so seemingly absurd, with

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Speaker 2: so many nuligisms right that people didn't know that. Folks

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Speaker 2: just found themselves compelled to spread it and make fun

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Speaker 2: of it, and by doing that they kind of helped

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Speaker 2: spread some of these terms around. And when you watch

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Speaker 2: the attached video, because this includes a video of whatever

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Speaker 2: is being described in that post of clavicular, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: make it any sense, right, Like, the video does not

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Speaker 2: help you understand what those words say. Sophy's gonna play

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Speaker 2: it for you right now. You'll hear the audio, but

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Speaker 2: I don't know how much help that's going to be.

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Speaker 2: It's just like a guy who looks like a kind

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Speaker 2: of normal young frat dude guy with at what looks

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Speaker 2: like a frat party. There's some young women and young

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Speaker 2: men behind him. He's streaming on kick and then yeah,

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Speaker 2: so if he's gonna hit play and you'll hear what he.

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Speaker 1: Says is SMV. Chad fishing in the club?

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Speaker 2: Question is sexual market value? And yeah, chad fishing is

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Speaker 2: people are fishing. Someone's fishing for a chad.

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Speaker 4: They're like when you do like Latin classes and you're

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Speaker 4: dissecting the words, and if you spent way too much

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Speaker 4: time online or in right wing spaces, you're able to

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Speaker 4: like do like all of the etymology.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you fight your nominative rugenitive, your data of

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Speaker 2: accuses the adletive. Right, But but all the just weird

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Speaker 2: terms freaks made up to talk about why they're not,

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Speaker 2: you know, having sex on the internet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, not including Robert because he's my Christina Yang.

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Speaker 3: But I have never disliked men more than I haven't.

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Speaker 1: Since the start of this year.

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Speaker 3: This is going to deeply be disturbing and play just

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Speaker 3: you wait, my friend likes.

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Speaker 2: Your cameraman tell us your way. His name is kur Kurk,

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Speaker 2: So I would describe that as a pretty normal guy

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Speaker 2: trying to film in the middle of a frat party

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Speaker 2: and some girls are making fun of him.

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Speaker 4: I would describe that as jestergoning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's jesterguting, right, they're jestergooning on him. So they're

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Speaker 2: saying Clovicular was trying to attract these these sorority girls

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Speaker 2: by doing that. When the girls came up and they

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Speaker 2: spiked his cortisol levels. They got him flustered, and they

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Speaker 2: believe that when your cortisol levels get spiked, your testosterone

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Speaker 2: production drops. Right. So that's the gist of this, right,

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Speaker 2: And then this later leads to him getting like mogged

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Speaker 2: on or kind of made to look sort of shitty

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Speaker 2: by a much more buff, frat like leader. Right, And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the genesis of this whole nonsense. Like,

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Speaker 2: that's what all of this terminology actually stands for. And

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Speaker 2: what's weird to me about this is just how much

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Speaker 2: of the pieces of this Because even if you didn't

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Speaker 2: understand a lot of this, you've probably heard You may

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Speaker 2: have heard the term foids, because that's a common in

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Speaker 2: cell term for women. It means like femoids. It's way

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Speaker 2: of to humanizing women. Right, You've heard the term gooning.

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Speaker 2: Probably you may have heard some of these, like references

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Speaker 2: to cortisol levels or mogging like. Pieces of this have

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Speaker 2: been spreading all over the Internet for years. And what's

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Speaker 2: weird to me is how widely in cell terminology has

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Speaker 2: broken containment. Because you don't see this for most other

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Speaker 2: weird Internet subcultures, even most extreme violent Internet subcultures like

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Speaker 2: When I think back to the time I spent reporting

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Speaker 2: on like eight chan and these online neo Nazi movements,

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Speaker 2: there's a couple of pieces used to the term based

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Speaker 2: that's kind of spread out of those communities, but there's not.

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Speaker 2: Most of the words they use are still kind of

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Speaker 2: nonsense to the average person, whereas in cell terms seem

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Speaker 2: to like every couple of years you get like a

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Speaker 2: new font of them washing into the culture. So why

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Speaker 2: is that a meme? Yeah? Or a meme like the

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Speaker 2: wojacks exactly. And we'll talk about that in a bit.

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Speaker 2: So I want to talk about like why that shit

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Speaker 2: is happening. And it may seem weird to some people

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Speaker 2: that because like Clovicular is a traditionally handsome guy. We

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Speaker 2: could say, right, like, if you see that dude on

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Speaker 2: the street, you wouldn't be like, oh, that's an in

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Speaker 2: cell looking dude, right, You'd be like, oh, that's just

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Speaker 2: a guy, right.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't leave my drink uncovered around him.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course, not that has nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 2: That's the Jester Gooding. But half of this guy's videos

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Speaker 2: like content is like videos of him hanging out with

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Speaker 2: Andrew Tait and Florida clubs and they're always surrounded by women.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't seem like someone who should have any relation

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Speaker 2: to the in cell community based on like what in

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Speaker 2: cells are famous for, which is not hanging out in

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Speaker 2: clubs surrounded by sorority girls. Right, So how did this happen? Like,

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Speaker 2: how do we go from a bunch of online weirdos

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Speaker 2: who are like so upset at the fact that like

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Speaker 2: women don't behave the way they want them to, that

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Speaker 2: they're doing mass killings to this guy who's like famous

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Speaker 2: for being handsome and hitting himself in the face with

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Speaker 2: a hammer, like going to frat parties and having impenetrable

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Speaker 2: internet dialogm spread.

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Speaker 1: About whatever happened with the hammer.

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Speaker 4: You don't talk about bone smashing. I mean I do.

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Speaker 3: I just like did every thing I could not to

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Speaker 3: look into this person because I just simply don't care

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Speaker 3: about men.

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Speaker 1: But here we are.

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Speaker 2: Here we are, Sophie. So how and why that all

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Speaker 2: happened is the story we're gonna tell this week. And

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Speaker 2: to tell that story, we got to go back to

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven in the place where all great evil begins, Canada.

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Speaker 6: No, that's actually very unfair. So Canada, it's and then

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Speaker 6: it's unfair to the very first end cells because the

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Speaker 6: phrase involuntary celibate originates from a Canadian student named Ilana,

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Speaker 6: and she seems to prefer Based on the stuff I've read,

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Speaker 6: not giving a last name, my understanding is that very

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Speaker 6: young person. Obviously I think she was somewhere on the

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Speaker 6: LGBTQ spectrum. And because she's a young person kind of

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Speaker 6: living out in a not huge, heavily inhabited part of Canada,

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Speaker 6: she's having a lot of trouble like finding people right

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Speaker 6: like a fairly especially nineteen ninety seven, a fairly normal

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Speaker 6: experience for a ton of people. And so as a result,

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Speaker 6: she finds her self like involuntarily celibate, and in other words,

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Speaker 6: she can't find any people that she has this like,

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Speaker 6: she feels like in common with that, she feels she

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Speaker 6: can be open with about who she is. She doesn't

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Speaker 6: know how to start those conversations. She's a self described

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Speaker 6: late bloomer, and she starts thinking like, well, maybe other

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Speaker 6: people are going through this, and maybe the internet can

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Speaker 6: be a way for us to kind of bridge some

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Speaker 6: of the gaps between us. I found an article on

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Speaker 6: her with the BBC and quote, I thought maybe there

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Speaker 6: are other late bloomers out there. I noticed people would

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Speaker 6: talk about the lonely virgin and make silly jokes about

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Speaker 6: people who didn't start dating in their teens. She rightly

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Speaker 6: felt like this was messed up and wanted to create

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Speaker 6: a place where she and other people struggling with sex

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Speaker 6: and relationships could commiserate. Since it was nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 6: she created a website and named it Alana's Involuntary Celibate Project.

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Speaker 6: So that's sort of the origin point of all of

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Speaker 6: this stuff, and it's perfectly banal, like, it's perfectly harmless.

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Speaker 6: Alana's not doing anything wrong. She's trying to connect with

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Speaker 6: other young, awkward people who were trying to figure out life.

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Speaker 6: She described her form as a friendly place, and it

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Speaker 6: was a place with that both men and women frequented,

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Speaker 6: and they would go there and they could talk about

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Speaker 6: being lonely, and they could wonder aloud, what's like, what

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Speaker 6: am I doing wrong? Why am I not meeting anybody?

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Speaker 6: What do I need to do?

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Speaker 2: Differently?

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Speaker 4: Once again, men have to take credit for women's work, right.

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Speaker 2: That is a big part of this story is how

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Speaker 2: the women get completely edged out of this community and

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Speaker 2: of this like concept, and it turns much more toxic

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Speaker 2: as a result, because when it is mixed gender, when

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Speaker 2: it's a Lana, you know, and a bunch of like

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Speaker 2: when it's a bunch of men and women on this form,

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Speaker 2: the purpose is not to hate on people for not

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Speaker 2: dating them. The purpose is to figure out what do

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Speaker 2: we need to do different in order to change this

379
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Speaker 2: thing about our lives, right, which is a reasonable thing

380
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Speaker 2: to ask, she recalled. There was probably a bit of anger,

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Speaker 2: and some women were a bit clueless about how men

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Speaker 2: are unique human individuals, but in general it was a

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Speaker 2: supportive place. So even then there were some signs that, like,

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Speaker 2: some of these guys seem to be surprised that, like,

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Speaker 2: women have feelings and she's noticing this, right, and that's

386
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 2: kind of weird. But a couple, one couple who meets

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00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 2: on the site gets married and people get better there,

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Speaker 2: including Alana, and in fact, she over time stops being

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Speaker 2: involuntarily celibate, She finds people, she starts dating, she moves

390
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 2: on with her life, and to be entirely fair to her,

391
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Speaker 2: she is not the origin of the term in cell.

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Speaker 2: She comes up with the term involuntary celibate, but her

393
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,440
Speaker 2: preferred abbreviation was in the cell I n V cell,

394
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 2: which was never gonna go viral the way in cell

395
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Speaker 2: has had. It's harder to say, and an unnamed member

396
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 2: of the community suggested in cell might flow better off

397
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,439
Speaker 2: the tongue. The term originally referred to people of any gender,

398
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 2: right like, it was not specifically just for angry young men.

399
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 2: So again a couple. After a couple of years of this,

400
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 2: Alana's life changes. She starts meeting people and dating, and

401
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 2: she she leaves the community she'd started. Around the turn

402
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 2: of the millennium, the website she'd built in the community

403
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 2: on it wound down, but the term in cell state

404
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: in use, and it kept on being adopted by people

405
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 2: who well, well, they wanted to have sex, but they

406
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 2: weren't having sex, right like, That's kind of the whole deal.

407
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 2: Over time, being online stopped being a thing only nerds did,

408
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 2: and started becoming the norm. As more and more people

409
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,640
Speaker 2: started communicating via the Internet, some of them, like Alana,

410
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 2: became aware of the fact that there were a lot

411
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 2: of young people who wanted to have sex but weren't.

412
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 2: Right that there's still a lot of these lonely virgins

413
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 2: out there, and that this is actually a sizeable community

414
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 2: of people online. And some of the folks who have

415
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 2: this realization hear cash register sounds in their ears. And

416
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 2: this is where enter the pickup artist community. Right, ah, yeah,

417
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 2: there's that good far right put prehistory.

418
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 4: Please, I love a good pickup artist. Oh give me condescension,

419
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 4: women love it.

420
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 2: We're gonna give you something slightly different. I thought I

421
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 2: was going to start by reading you some old pick

422
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 2: up artistry stuff and you we both be like, Wow,

423
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 2: it's fucked up. How crazy and bigoted this old pick

424
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,679
Speaker 2: up artistry book is. I had the opposite experience. So

425
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 2: pickup artists started out well before the internet, right, this

426
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 2: is not a thing. I asked a couple of different

427
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 2: friends going into this, when do you think pickup artistry

428
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: got started as like a social you know, movement or

429
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 2: grift or whatever you want to call it. And everyone guessed,

430
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 2: like the nineties, basically, can I guess? But the yeah, yeah,

431
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 2: yeah please Chicago World fair.

432
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 4: Too far, Like it just feels like it'd be a

433
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 4: thing there, you know, it's like everyone, come here, I'll

434
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 4: show you how to get a woman.

435
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Introducing the concept of women exact Chicago World's

436
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 2: Fair next to the light booth. Pickup artistry does predate

437
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: the Internet, though you're not that far off, is the

438
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 2: crazy thing. The official birth of pickup artistry as a

439
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: concept was the book How to pick Up Girls by

440
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 2: Eric Weber, published in nineteen sixty eight. So this actually

441
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 2: does so bad, Like that's not that long after the

442
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 2: World's Fair.

443
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 4: I was pretty off. You don't have to maybe feel that, Robert.

444
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 2: I think you did the best. You did the best.

445
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: I'll say that you're you're the best at this. So

446
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: today that book is so obscure that Wikipedia, if you like,

447
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: look that title up. They just have a full page

448
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 2: for the movie inspired by the book that came out

449
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight and Starre Desi Arnis. I'm gonna

450
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 2: have to read that or watch that bucker at some point.

451
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: But Weber's book was a bestseller and you can still

452
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: find copies, full copies of it for free online, which

453
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: is how I came across the cover and look at

454
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 2: this thing. Look at this. It's a The top is

455
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 2: how to pick Up Girls by Eric Weber, and then

456
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 2: there's a picture of like ten young women, all kind

457
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 2: of posing together, and then underneath the picture is featuring

458
00:22:54,720 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 2: interviews with twenty five beautiful girls. Incredible, all incredible.

459
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 4: All of there are starcross.

460
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 3: None of them are smiling, and they're all traditionally thin.

461
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 2: Got it. Yeah, they have angry smiles.

462
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 3: I'd say it's a new Internet enemy terror.

463
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: Banks would say they're smising.

464
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're smising. Now. When I saw this cover, I

465
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: was like, oh, yeah, we're I'm gonna I'm gonna find

466
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 2: a couple of quotes about this that is the worst

467
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: thing any of us has ever read. And that's not

468
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: what happened. I wasn't really planning to do like much

469
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 2: more than reference this book because I wanted to focus

470
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: most on the online community, But right in the intro

471
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 2: something did kind of strike me right, and this part

472
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: is kind of pretty gross. Weber opens the book by

473
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: describing a little tragedy that has happened to most men.

474
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: You're walking down the street and you see a you

475
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: see a beautiful Uh, I'm going to say, you see

476
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: a beautiful woman. Weber uses the term girl exclusively because

477
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: it is nineteen sixty eight. You see this person, but

478
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: you don't actually say anything to them. And then she

479
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,239
Speaker 2: like walks by and you know, see them again and

480
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: you have this like horrified. This is how he describes it.

481
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 2: Should I throw myself at her feet and promise my

482
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: saving her, my savings account, my car, even my brand

483
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: new golf clubs? Or should I just grab her long

484
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: golden locks and drag her off into the sunset? So

485
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: this is written in nineteen sixty, Yes, right, Sophie.

486
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: No, please do not grab her by the long golden locks.

487
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 4: Also, so, don't offer your fucking golf clubs. Don't want

488
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 4: your golf I don't want you.

489
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: I'll take your savings account.

490
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, even then, even then, bet I got my own,

491
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: don't need it.

492
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: That's super gross. But if you recall that from the title,

493
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: the premise of this book is that he's interviewed twenty

494
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 2: five beautiful girls, right, and he makes it clear these

495
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: are He's interviewed twenty five young women who are single,

496
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 2: and most of the book is him giving quotes that

497
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: they give about what they want in like a man,

498
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 2: or what they want when someone's like picking them up,

499
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: or like what they find attractive when someone's flirting with them,

500
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 2: And so surprisingly as gross in as very sixties as

501
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: this is it's a thousand times more woke than any

502
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: modern insult or pick up artist shit, because the basic

503
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: premise of Weber's book is that if you want to

504
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: be attractive to women, you should learn what women want.

505
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: What women want matters. Women like dating too, and it's

506
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: fine to ask them out, but you need to understand

507
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: what they want from you, otherwise they won't be into you.

508
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: That is so far advanced from modern pickup artistry and

509
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: insul culture. It feels like a different world. And I

510
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: shouldn't be looking at this nineteen sixty book where you

511
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: talked about knocking a woman out and be like, wow,

512
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: this is so much better than like modern pua stuff.

513
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: But it does treat women like human beings with actual

514
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: individual wants.

515
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 4: Which isn't true by the way.

516
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all we're less yeah voids to use the

517
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: current parlance. And then there's moids for men too. Don't worry, folks,

518
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: they've got they've got more than one term.

519
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 4: And the in cell vernacular. Yeah, they were like, well

520
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 4: we have to include moitz here two.

521
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is kind of how the pickup artist

522
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 2: subculture really gets started. And I do find it interesting

523
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: that that's sort of the first work on it. But

524
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: obviously over time things get more and more deranged. And

525
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: in the early two thousands, Neil Strauss goes under cover

526
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: in the pickup artist community that has popped up in

527
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: the early two thousands and kind of come out of

528
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: the late nineties, and he writes a two thousand and

529
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: five best selling book called The Game, and the game

530
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: is pick up artistry, right, And he's talking about all

531
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: these crazy tactics, right, that guys have invented, stuff like negging,

532
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 2: you know, basically where you're kind of insulting or mocking

533
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: a woman to try to make her like want to

534
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: get your affection. Stuff like peacocking, where you're dressing like crazily,

535
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: you know, and wearing like ridiculous fedoras with literal feet

536
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: peacock feathers, because like, look, all that matters is you,

537
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: you know, if you get noticed. Right. And that's so

538
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 2: different because Webber is literally quoting women saying stuff like

539
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: I like it when a man just like talks to

540
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: me and tells me what he wants. Whereas by the

541
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: twenty first century, these guys like no, no, no, you

542
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: have to like you have to activate the back portion

543
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 2: of her brain that responds to color in the way

544
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: of like an animal on the Serengetti by wearing feathers

545
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: in the back of your Otherwise you'll never find love.

546
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 4: You won't stand that chance out there.

547
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. In other words, Webird's twenty first century descendants describe

548
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: women as like enemies in a video game. They're basically

549
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: mindless automatons that you can hack via the right series

550
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: of inputs. And that is the first major shift that

551
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: we get that makes the in cell community possible. Is

552
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: this shift from well, I'm a gross man, and I'll

553
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 2: joke about knocking a lady out, but fundamentally I want

554
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: to know what women want where, And by the time

555
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: you hit two thousand and five or so, women don't

556
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: want things. Women respond to inputs like a video game. Right.

557
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: That's the big first shift that we have to make

558
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: before we can get to in cell. And I think

559
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: that's an important point. Hel Yeah, it's gross, but this

560
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: is also, you know, a big part of where terms

561
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: like alpha come from. Right, Like early pickup artistry starts

562
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: reintroducing that concept, which is based on a misunderstanding of

563
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 2: how wolves work, right, And that's all of like pickup artistry,

564
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: it's a bunch of hacks and cognitive tricks and like

565
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: psychological phenomena that is supposed to work for these kind

566
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: of elaborate, contrived reasons they come up with. So we'll

567
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 2: talk about what happens to this first git and second

568
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: generation of pickup artists and kind of like how that

569
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: feeds into the in cell community later, but first, let's

570
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: feed you to our advertisers. All right, we're back. I

571
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: hope it was the Portland Police Bureau again. I was

572
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: so tickled to see them advertising on our show, Sophie.

573
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: I was not and got it removed immediately.

574
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: Anyway, I wanted. I just wanted their money. Look, they're

575
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: going to spend it on more here gas if we

576
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: don't take it, that's fair. I'm sure those are different budgets.

577
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: So that's a different p and L. That's a different

578
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: p and L.

579
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 4: Maybe you'll ever had Ice advertise on here? No that

580
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 4: Ice was doing like Spotify advertisements.

581
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: No, Washington State Highway Patrol.

582
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: But not no, we never got we never fortunately, we

583
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 3: know it right, we've never had Ice ice ads because

584
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: if we did, somebody would people would have told me,

585
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: but we yeah, and then I would have freaked out.

586
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: And got that removed immediately.

587
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: But no.

588
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: Casino ads, so it's used to be the most common

589
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 4: ones I get when I listened to the best.

590
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: Or like gold ads for literal gold and things like that.

591
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: But yea, just like Alex Jones.

592
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, just like Alex Jones.

593
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: Well, I don't have my own brand of supplements yet. Yeah,

594
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: but in a word, if you want to send me

595
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 2: fifty dollars and just take a fatal dose of fight

596
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: Him and B twelve and caffeine, you know, with a

597
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: little bit of lead mixed in for good measure, we'll

598
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: call it even. We can call that brain my brain force.

599
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: I would totally sell, Like mineral sunscreen, you're just selling

600
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: selling five shots of alert.

601
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, five shots of Alert. It'll power you through.

602
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 3: Anything, including talking to Don is taking so many strays

603
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: in this this podcast.

604
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 4: Yeah sorry Don, Yeah, like look after what he's had

605
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 4: to deal with this year, Don Lemon, We're good, He's fine,

606
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 4: We're fine, Don. Sorry, that shit happened to you. I

607
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 4: get it.

608
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sucks wild. Yeah, the first and second generation

609
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: pickup artists make a lot of money. You know, these

610
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: guys are for a couple of years very successful and

611
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: like early Internet famous. So they got this kind of

612
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: brief period of prominence and it fades rapidly for a

613
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: couple reasons. The biggest one is that once pickup artist

614
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: she becomes like famous, and like regular people start to

615
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: read what these guys are saying, like what they're talking about,

616
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: and these lectures and clinics that they're giving, and like

617
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: what they believe about dating. They make fun of it

618
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: because it's silly, right, Like, most people who hear about

619
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: all this shit are like, well, that's ridiculous. And when

620
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: you add that to the fact that none of this

621
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: stuff works, right, Like, if you're otherwise handsome and you

622
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: dress up ridiculously and go to the club, sure, like

623
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: maybe you'll have good luck. Or like if you're really

624
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: charismatic and also dressing like a crazy person, again, maybe

625
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: stuff will work out for you. But if you're the

626
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: kind of person who's paying that guy to tell you

627
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: how to wear a fedora, it's probably not going to

628
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: work for you, right Bilby.

629
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 4: This has given gotten so much hate for actual fedoras,

630
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 4: which still look cool as hell. It's an Indiana Jones Hut,

631
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 4: it's not the same shit that neckbeards wear. I just

632
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 4: want to be clear. My grandfather used to wear a

633
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 4: f doorra every single day. He looked cool as the hell.

634
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 4: He was buried with it, and I don't want them

635
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 4: to catch the stress.

636
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: Finally, listen to that, folks online, kat is standing up

637
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: for the fedor you know, I'm setting history an arm

638
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: across the aisle.

639
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 4: Doors have always been leftist coded. You can't tell me

640
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: anything that's.

641
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's fair, that's fair. It's the truby, it's

642
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: the damn triby.

643
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 4: We gotta damn shelby the boomerang, or like the horseshoe,

644
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 4: we got here.

645
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: The fucking yeah. So again, most of the stuff doesn't

646
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: work for most of the men who get interested in

647
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: who are spending money on this, And when you're selling

648
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: a solution to a problem that doesn't work, people will

649
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: eventually realize they've been ripped off. You can only convince

650
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: somebody to go to pay one thousand dollars or five

651
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: thousand dollars for so many coaching sessions on how to

652
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: pick up women and have them like not get any

653
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: dates because you've basically taught them to run around dressed

654
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: like a maniac, cursing at women and that does not work.

655
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: They'll realize that you're screwing them right, that you've lied

656
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: to them, and that none of this stuff is real.

657
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: And this brings us to the website PUA hate dot com.

658
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: P UA hate stands for Pickup Artist Hate. It was

659
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: launched in two thousand and nine by several disaffected members

660
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 2: of the pickup artist community. These were not people who

661
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: had offered coaching classes, but these were people who were

662
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: paying for them, right, and they'd gotten fed up and

663
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: realized they'd been taking advantage of So they start this

664
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: website and they announced their new forum. I found, like

665
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: in the wayback machine, the very first like page on

666
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: that website was like a this new forum will be

667
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: up Sunday or sooner thing with a spatter of blood

668
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: underneath it, right before the forum's active. Like that's the

669
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: that's the little header that they that they put on

670
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: the internet to like tell people that it's coming. Which,

671
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: like at the time, maybe you would have noticed there

672
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: were a lot of websites that young men and gamers

673
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: use that would just have random blood spatters on them,

674
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: you know, in the early two thousands, a lot of

675
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: forums did shit like this. But given what comes out

676
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: of pua hate dot com. It's hard not to see

677
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: it as like this kind of foreboding message about what

678
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: was coming later now per the Wayback Machine, the actual

679
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: forum launches a couple of days later in late two

680
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: thousand and nine, and the landing page features a common

681
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: jpeg of a man in a suit flipping the bird,

682
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: and then a content warning that says adult content and

683
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: not safe for work. You know, don't view this if

684
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: you're under twenty one and you have the option to

685
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 2: enter the form or leave the website. Those who chose

686
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,959
Speaker 2: to enter saw an advertisement for the Barry Kirky Radio Show,

687
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: which was a I think now defunct podcast that mocked

688
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: the seduction community, which is what pickup artist fans had

689
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: branded themselves. The first actual saved copy of the forum

690
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: itself I found is from twenty eleven, and at that

691
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: point it's toxic. But it's not a guy's gonna go

692
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: on a killing spree toxic, right, It's like young men

693
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 2: on the Internet, normal toxic. Most of the posts are

694
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: like people shit talking different pickup artists or linking other

695
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: articles where people reveal, you know, uncomfortable or embarrassing details

696
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: from like famous guys like Mystery and the pickup artist community.

697
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: But even at this early stage, you could see some

698
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 2: signs that community members were branching out from insulting seduction

699
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: influencers to trying to puzzle out the mysteries of women.

700
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: There are threads on hypnotic dating, which I'll have to

701
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: look into at some point. There's a thread on it

702
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: how and why love Testimzy great stuff. And there's also

703
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: a thread counting down the days until Mystery's daughter turns eighteen,

704
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 2: which was again it's gross, but like that was a

705
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: huge thing on the Internet from Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen.

706
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: So it's not new either, right.

707
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 3: No, it's still and it's still happening. I'm thinking of

708
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 3: like when the cash me outside Girl bad Baby i

709
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 3: think is her stage name, turned eighteen, there was like

710
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: a count down to her posting on OnlyFans and she

711
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: like made millions and dollars in one day, which was

712
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 3: just disturbing on so many levels.

713
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: I never heard of that.

714
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry, great, it was a bummer.

715
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of things that will disappoint you, Yeah, these

716
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: ads and we're back. So in short, this the early

717
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, the pickup Artist Hate Forum is gross,

718
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: and a lot of stuff that's really toxic, but nothing

719
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,439
Speaker 2: that's like crazy for the Internet, and nothing that would

720
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 2: have like really stood out there. Weren't really extremism researchers

721
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,479
Speaker 2: trawling the Internet in the same way that there have been,

722
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, for the last ten years or so back then,

723
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: But there wasn't much that would have set this community

724
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 2: out ahead of the others by that point in time

725
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: that I'm seeing at least. But over the coming months

726
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: and years, pickup artist hate evolved into one of the

727
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: most extreme storehouses for misogynistic content on the Internet. And

728
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: this happens for a couple of reasons. For one, the

729
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: early two thousands also see the rise of the men's

730
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: rights movement. This happens alongside pick up artistry and a

731
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 2: lot of men early men's rights activists are either former

732
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: pickup artists or like other people who are kind of

733
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: satisfied with what they actually get out of pickup artistry.

734
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: The mra toxic subculture starts with these. It starts with

735
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 2: a lot of complaints about on the surface, what seem

736
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: like reasonable issues, like guys, if they're giving you the

737
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: elevator pitch for men's rights will be like, well, you know,

738
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: single fathers have all of these different legal problems if

739
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 2: they're trying to pursue custody right, And some people will

740
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: be like, oh, well, maybe they're talking about a real issue.

741
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 2: All this stuff is just to cover for hating women

742
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 2: and wanting to take away women's rights. Like if you

743
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: actually get into what these people are saying, it's not

744
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 2: I want to be treated more fairly by the courts.

745
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: It's I don't think women should have check books, and

746
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: I don't think my wife should have been able to

747
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: leave me right. Fantasies of violence and murder are common

748
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: with MRA content and around the same time, so this

749
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 2: is bubbling up through the early two thousands into the oughts,

750
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 2: and at the same time, the in cell community has

751
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: kept evolving. Right after nineteen ninety seven, it's continued to change,

752
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 2: you know, Alana leaves around two thousand and so, per

753
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: an article published in the Journal of the Australian Strategic

754
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 2: Policy Institute. By the two thousands, in cells began to

755
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 2: inhabit spinoff forums such as love Shy and in cell

756
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 2: support Loveshy, with a more relaxed content moderation policy, began

757
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: to house the more extreme elements of the growing movement,

758
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 2: and Alana had noticed from the start there were some

759
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: men who didn't seem to realize that women were people.

760
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 2: That becomes more common. But now that there's not any

761
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: moderation on these forums that have descended from hers, no

762
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: one's pushing back, and over time, the women who might

763
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: have found themselves drawn in the same way that Alana

764
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: was to communities like this, or just looking for a

765
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 2: place where they could commiserate on, well, it's kind of

766
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: hard to find today, and I don't know how to

767
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 2: do this. I would like some advice they stop showing

768
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: up because all these places I've been colonized by these

769
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: incredibly toxic angry young men, right, And a bunch of

770
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: those angry young men, including and a bunch of MRAs,

771
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: all start finding PUA hate dot com, right, and they

772
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: start posting on there, and they start becoming increasingly radicalized.

773
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: I don't think we have a great understanding of why.

774
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: But even though there's a couple of different groups that

775
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: kind of come into POA hate dot com, they all

776
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: start adopting the term in cell for themselves. That becomes

777
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: extremely popular on the forum. Per The Guardian, it became

778
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: a place where sexually frustrated men could go to vint

779
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 2: and share pseudoscientific theories about women. And that's the other

780
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 2: really important thing, right, is that these guys aren't just

781
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 2: complaining no one will date me. They're developing an ideology,

782
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 2: and they're developing a glossary of terms, all of which

783
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 2: will work together to explain their theories for why women

784
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 2: don't like them. Right, that's what they start really focusing on.

785
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: It stops being how can I do better? How can

786
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: I change? How can I like have a more success

787
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: in love, and starts being more about what is it

788
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 2: that's fundamentally wrong about how women are hardwired and about

789
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: how human civilization is constructed that has made this situation

790
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: so unfair for me? Because it's obvious not my fault. Right,

791
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 2: That becomes the overwhelming uh drive here, So they start

792
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: cutting up all of human society into three groups. Uh

793
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: there's alpha's, right, and the male alphas are chads, and

794
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 2: the female equivalent are Stacey's. And these are the beautiful people, right,

795
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: These are your celebrities, These are your hotties, These are

796
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: the folks that, in in cell terminology, everybody wants to

797
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: get with.

798
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever heard the word has before.

799
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: It was really weird. The hatties. What do you want

800
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: me to say? That's that's that's a nutshell.

801
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm just really wanting to say certified batties.

802
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: Please, no, no, none of these people.

803
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 4: I'm ready for Congress. Could you please say certified baddie.

804
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. You got your alpha's up at the top.

805
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: But that's a tiny percentage of the population. Sure, most

806
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: people are betas. That's normal people right now. In the

807
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: and in so ideology is very rock paper scissors. It's

808
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: very hardline and very rock paper scissors. So in the

809
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: their evolving understanding of the world, alphas get to fuck

810
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 2: other alphas, obviously, but also any alpha has the ability

811
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: to sleep with any beta that they want, and obviously

812
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 2: no beta wouldever say no to an alpha. Meanwhile, the

813
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: third and lowest and also betas get to partner up

814
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: with each other at least, right so at least they're

815
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: not lonely. The third and lowest category and the most

816
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: oppressed people in society, The most depressed people in all

817
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: of human history are the in cells aka the members

818
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: of the p whoa hate community.

819
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 4: Right.

820
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,439
Speaker 2: They basically in the space of a year or two

821
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: fashion to cosmology in which they are the victims of history.

822
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 4: Right, it's so convenia how that works out, It's great.

823
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: It's way better than taking ownership of your own fuck ups.

824
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 2: I need to get some of that right now. You

825
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 2: know the fact that, like earlier today, when I was

826
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: trying to clean the house, I realized that I hadn't

827
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: cleaned all week, and I've got like three hours of

828
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: work ahead of me. That's got to be someone else's fault, right,

829
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: It's gotta been like written into the stars that my

830
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: house would be messy. It's not my fault that my

831
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: house is messy. I didn't make the mess. The mess exists.

832
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 4: As Gordon Peterson would say, make your bed.

833
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: When was the last time you made your bed?

834
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: Robert Evans, I built a bed once.

835
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 4: Okay, that wasn't the question.

836
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: It kind of counts. It wasn't a good bed. So

837
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: once you have these categories, once you've come up with

838
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 2: you've decided these are the categories all people fit into,

839
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 2: you have to have an explanation for why these categories

840
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: exist in the first place. Right, It kind of begs

841
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 2: the question. So the in cells start posting pictures of

842
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: themselves and of each other, right, and they start posting

843
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: pictures of people that they think are chads and alphas

844
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 2: to try and suss out the rules behind who is

845
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: attractive enough to find love, and they come across a

846
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: real term in mathematics and an art called the golden ratio.

847
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 2: I'm sure most people know what the golden ratio is, right.

848
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: It's a term that explains this this particular set of

849
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 2: proportions we see over and over again in like natural

850
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: objects like snail shells, but also people seem to find

851
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: this basic visual harmony that is created by the golden

852
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: ratio pleasant. And so you see evidence of the golden

853
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: ratio all across human art, in great architecture and fine

854
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 2: art like the Mona Lisa. The golden ratio is all

855
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 2: over the fucking place. It's a real observed phenomenon, right,

856
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 2: And all it means is that, like, for whatever reason,

857
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 2: we find certain kind of proportions more attractive and pleasing

858
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: to our eyes. Right. What in cells take from this

859
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: is that attractiveness and attractiveness is directly and one hundred

860
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 2: percent correlated with the ability to be loved. Right. Being

861
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 2: loved has nothing to do with anything but how hot

862
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: you are, right, And attractiveness is something you're born with

863
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: or not. It's not something you can develop over time

864
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: by like being cool. If somebody's not conventionally attractive, they

865
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: will never find love, you know. And if that's the case, like,

866
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 2: then it's not my fault that I'm alone. Right, If

867
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 2: I could change how I present myself to the world,

868
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 2: if I could change how I introduce myself to people,

869
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: if I could alter and learn things and like grow

870
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 2: as a person, and maybe I will through that process

871
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: meet people and have friends and companions and find love

872
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: one day. If that's possible, then the fact that I'm

873
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 2: not currently doing it is my fault, and I don't

874
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 2: want to accept that. So it's just the fact my

875
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: nose is not the right size, so I'll never be loved, right,

876
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: you see how it's so poisonous and fucked up, And yeah,

877
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 2: that's what they take from the fucking golden ratio. Right.

878
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: If your bone structure doesn't fit the golden ratio, you're

879
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: screwed forever. And that means nothing is my fault. So

880
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 2: over the course of the next couple of years, let's

881
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: say crudely from like two thousand and nine twenty thirteen,

882
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: they work out this categorization system which is called the

883
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: PSL scale, and it's they use it to kind of

884
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: objectively evaluate attractiveness on a scale of one to ten. Now,

885
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 2: fucking people have forever been using a one to ten

886
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: scale to evaluate like how attractive people are. Right in

887
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 2: high school, we were using terms like that. So this

888
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: isn't new. What's new is that the in cells have

889
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 2: come up with like a scale that their pretending has

890
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 2: scientific rigor to it rather the subjective.

891
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 4: It is the only thing that.

892
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: Matters exactly as opposed to like this guy you bought

893
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: weed from in college being like, oh man, that guy's

894
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: nine or whatever, right, Like, yeah, that doesn't work. It's

895
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: got to be scientific. So the name for the PSL

896
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 2: scale comes from the three forms where in cell ideology

897
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: is developing and spreading. During this time, there's pua hate,

898
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: of course, which helps to spawn slut hate, and I

899
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: probably don't have to explain what's going on there, and

900
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 2: then the last of the site.

901
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 4: It's so interesting that pua hate is about not being

902
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 4: like it's not like, oh, we hate pick up artists,

903
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 4: but slut hate is we hate sluts, right, Well, they

904
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 4: do hate pickup artists, but yeah, but like not the

905
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 4: same way.

906
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 2: Not in the same way.

907
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: It's very different. And if you hate sluts, we're not friends.

908
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: Yes, well, there's slut hate and then the last one

909
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 2: is lookism. Right, So it's PSL is POA hates slut

910
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 2: hate and lookism. That's where the name of the scale

911
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: comes from.

912
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: Right.

913
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: Oh, and we'll talk about the concept of lookism because

914
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 2: that's what leads us to looksmaxing in a little bit.

915
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: But the PSL scale comes along with this, kind of

916
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: alongside this, they developed this intricate vocabulary for facial features primarily,

917
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: and I found a quote from an article in The

918
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: Viewer by Maya Gillhog and Isabel Lee that gives an

919
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 2: overview of this quote. Different physical traits impact the PSL rating.

920
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: Someone receives. A weak jaw, for example, makes a man

921
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: a two out of ten, while a negative canfel tilt

922
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: or downward slanted eyes repels universally. Both characteristics, along with

923
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 2: many more, are considered unmasculine by the in cell community.

924
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 2: They signify weakness and low SMV, or sexual market value,

925
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: the primary measure of an individual's worth according to an

926
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: in Cell, and I don't think this gets enough attention.

927
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: There's some like toxic capitalism baked into in cell ideology,

928
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 2: which is the idea that like everyone has an objective

929
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: sexual market.

930
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 3: Value, market value, market value.

931
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 4: Can I just say I hate the fact that all

932
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 4: of these terms are not new to me. No, I

933
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 4: hate the fact that I've been so steeped in the

934
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 4: far right and covering the far right that I'm like,

935
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 4: oh yeah, this all made like this is not a

936
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 4: new language, this is an inherent one.

937
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 3: I know. I'm like, I unfortunately know so much about

938
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 3: the manosphere from the work the worker that I've done

939
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 3: that I'm just like, oh god.

940
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 4: No one wants to know this stuff that's is and

941
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 4: this is why you should elect me to Congress because actually, no,

942
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 4: jug part of it is like so much of this

943
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 4: influences the Republican Party now, which is what we're going

944
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 4: to get into. But like, yep, this is the basis

945
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 4: of when you're taking bad faith arguments and good faith

946
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 4: of like the male loneliness epidemic, and it's like, okay,

947
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 4: so what are we doing about that? Is it creating

948
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 4: third spaces? Is it ensuring that people have their material

949
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 4: needs met. Is it making sure that we aren't punishing

950
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 4: vulnerability and encouraging like a feminist outlook that treats this

951
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 4: meant men and women as equals, including men, like men

952
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 4: deserve that too. No, okay, are we just gonna keep

953
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 4: taking rights from women?

954
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

955
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well again this is like Nick Fuintes thought now,

956
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 2: where it's like the government needs to ensure that every

957
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: man gets a woman, right, Like, that is where this leads,

958
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: and it's not it's not quite the Republican Party platform now,

959
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 2: but it will.

960
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 4: Be, you know, getting there.

961
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 2: They're getting there. So the term for this whole idea

962
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 2: of like ranking people and using all these all these

963
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 2: kind of incredibly obscure and nuanced terms for different weird

964
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 2: little facial features, that's lookism, right, And it's the name

965
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 2: both of an online community and a broader name for

966
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: this general concept of ranking people's SMV now evolving in

967
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: cell theory does allow for the possibility of people dating

968
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 2: or marrying outside of their sexual market value or their

969
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 2: level of attractiveness. Right, But in their view, the only

970
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: men who get to do this are like crazy rich guys, right, Like,

971
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 2: if you may become a billionaire, then it doesn't matter

972
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: if you're a slubby dude. You can date you know who,

973
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 2: you can date the Stacey's because they want, you know,

974
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: your money as a rich guy. And that's part of

975
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: what pisses off the insults is that women have the

976
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: unfair advantage of being able to date out of their

977
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 2: league way more often than men do. Ugly poor men

978
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 2: never date out of their league, right, but but you know,

979
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: women get to do it all of the time for

980
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: reasons that are based And the reason they believe this,

981
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: I will say, is based one hundred percent of the

982
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: fact that they've never talked to women, right, Like, they

983
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: don't know women who are frustrated because they can't find

984
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: a date. They don't know women who find it gross

985
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 2: when a guy just tries to like buy their way

986
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: into their affection. Because they don't know any women, they

987
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: just assume all of the hot girls are engaged in

988
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 2: the hypergamy, right and when they a woman that.

989
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 4: They're not attracted to, which is very rarely like any woman.

990
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 4: I mean, there's the idea that a lot of uh,

991
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 4: you know, like so said white dudes see worth in

992
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 4: just the women that they would ever eventually have sex with,

993
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 4: and when they in cells, they see women in general,

994
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 4: and for most of them, can see an opportunity there

995
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 4: because women are so objectified, because like we can out

996
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 4: and put our makeup on, and like the average woman

997
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 4: looks a lot more dulled up than the average man.

998
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 4: And so but if you showed them a woman that

999
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 4: they're not sexually attracted to, all they do is say

1000
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 4: the most vile shit to them, somehow, even more vile

1001
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 4: than the rape and death threats so many other women

1002
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 4: have gotten from in cells. It's so fucking disgusting.

1003
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: It's disgusting, and it's also super self defeating because a

1004
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 2: lot of these guys are just gross monsters that I

1005
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: don't have any sympathy for. But a lot of them

1006
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: are like teenage boys who aren't destined to fall into

1007
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: something like that forever. And you'll see on these forms

1008
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 2: was really heartbreaking kind of lurking, and them to me

1009
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 2: would be to see a guy'd be like, hey, I

1010
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 2: actually had a really good experience with a girl in

1011
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 2: my school today, and I think we might go out

1012
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 2: a date and then like a million guys post that's cope, cope,

1013
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 2: she hates you, she hates you. She doesn't like you.

1014
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 2: You fucked it up. Give up now, man, you should

1015
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 2: just kill yourself right Like that's literally how the community works.

1016
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 4: I used to be doing some work looking into brain cells,

1017
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 4: which was once the in cell subreddit got banned brainstells, yes,

1018
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 4: talk about the other one. But one of the mods there,

1019
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 4: when I was sorting by new which I would do

1020
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 4: every day and want to put an ice pick through

1021
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 4: my brain because of it, one of the mods wrote

1022
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 4: suicide note, and I reached out to him and I

1023
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 4: DMed him and I was like, hey, like like say on, like, look,

1024
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 4: what what are you into? Like, let's talk. There's way

1025
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 4: better stuff in life, I promise. And then he looked

1026
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 4: at my account and realized I was a woman, and

1027
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 4: then like said something very like sad, and then just

1028
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 4: never stopped replying. And so I DMed the mods of

1029
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 4: the brain cell community and they were like you fucking bitch,

1030
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 4: you cunt, blah blah blah, like just completely ignored everything

1031
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 4: I said. And then two weeks later they finally realized

1032
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 4: that he was dead and they hadn't noticed for two weeks.

1033
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

1034
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's heartbreaking what this does to people in it.

1035
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 4: It's horrific. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm making a hat.

1036
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 4: I'm hoping i'll finish the hat by the end of

1037
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 4: the podcast.

1038
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 2: But that's cat.

1039
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: I want a cat hat.

1040
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 2: And that's what gets me every time about the people,

1041
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: both about these communities, about the people who like professionally

1042
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 2: have to analyze them as there's always so much concern

1043
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: from the researchers I've known about when they see like, oh,

1044
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: I think this person might actually harm themselves. Yeah, and

1045
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,919
Speaker 2: none of that within the community, none of it. Kind

1046
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,479
Speaker 2: of there's kind of a win because that person didn't escape.

1047
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 2: If they kill themselves, they haven't gotten out. There's still

1048
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:56,439
Speaker 2: an inceel.

1049
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, I hope that they they fucking just

1050
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 4: logged off. And it was like like I hope that's

1051
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 4: what happened, and but like they never heard back from him,

1052
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 4: and it was like there was also all of this

1053
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 4: infighting in there, being like he was weak for killing

1054
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 4: himself then, or it was good that he killed himself

1055
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 4: because there's no reason to live while you're an inselling.

1056
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 4: It's so fucking disgusting and based on that guy's post,

1057
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 4: he couldn't have been older than like nineteen yep.

1058
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 2: Really dark. It's fucking Yeah, it's sad and it's late.

1059
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 2: This is happening, and this is I want to note,

1060
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 2: because we will talk about the danger's algorithms play and

1061
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 2: all of this. This is all pre algorithmic harm. Not

1062
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: that there are algorithms in social media in twenty thirteen fourteen,

1063
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: but that's not really affecting the growth of the inceel

1064
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 2: subculture at this stage. These people are meeting on forums

1065
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 2: that don't really people are finding this organically, right, not

1066
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 2: being slalomed this kind of content for the most part

1067
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 2: from like an algorithm at this stage, right, that's not

1068
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: yet a factor. So the fact that like the incel

1069
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: hate and this belief that like women are hypergamists, right,

1070
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 2: and sometimes this is like inceels really hate polyamorous people

1071
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 2: for the same reason that like, oh it's a couple

1072
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 2: of chads hog and all the Stacey's right, or just

1073
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 2: like we.

1074
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 4: Get to say polyamorous people just for fun.

1075
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: You know, you could just do that anyway. People have

1076
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 2: been doing it for forever. But this is all coached. Again,

1077
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 2: it has to be this can't just be I just

1078
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 2: don't like this stuff and I'm a dick. There's to

1079
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 2: be like evolutionary justification for it, right, And so the

1080
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 2: justification they come up with is, well, women are programmed

1081
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 2: by evolution to seek the strongest provider for their future children,

1082
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 2: which all women want to have. Obviously, I know I've

1083
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 2: talked to them in the meantime before they have those kids.

1084
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: Women don't have souls and thus feel nothing about sleeping

1085
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 2: around and breaking men's hearts. Right, They'll just go for

1086
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: whoever has the most money. They'll try to fuck all

1087
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 2: the chads while they can, and then they'll they'll sell

1088
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: for a beta with cash.

1089
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 4: Is it in scientology where your baby like the baby's

1090
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 4: soul is Yes?

1091
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 2: It is yes, it is yes.

1092
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 4: And I've listened to the l Ron Hubbard episodes f times.

1093
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. I won't say much more than this, but there

1094
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 2: are some people who believe that when if like a

1095
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: relative of yours, dies, you can adopt a baby and

1096
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 2: summon that person's soul into the new baby and raise

1097
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: them as that person scientology. It's cool. I miss talking

1098
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: about scientology. I would so much rather do that than

1099
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: show you the jpeg I'm about to show you. This

1100
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 2: is commonly pastor on and lookism spaces, and it illustrates

1101
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: the phenomenon I'm talking about right on one side. You

1102
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: have two sides of this image. One is like nineteen

1103
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: fifty five, one is twenty fifteen, and they show on

1104
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 2: one side of the image a bunch of men and

1105
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 2: on the other a bunch of women, right, and they're

1106
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 2: ranked from like boring and ugly at the bottom to

1107
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: interesting and good looking at the top. And in nineteen

1108
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 2: fifty five all the.

1109
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 4: More interesting and ugly or boring and looking right right.

1110
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: It never has happened, never once in life, Danny DeVito

1111
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: simply did not exists. I'm not calling ugly. The in

1112
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: cells would right, but they're saying all of the all

1113
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 2: of the ugly women and all the ugly men got

1114
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 2: together and all of the medium attractive this men and

1115
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: women got together, and all the hot men and hot

1116
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: women got together. But everyone had somebody, right, But in

1117
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, thanks to feminism in the Internet, all of

1118
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: like the chicks above the bottom twenty percent of hotness

1119
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: are going to the top like two or three percent

1120
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 2: of men. This is not this and there's no men

1121
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 2: for the.

1122
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 4: Yes goes back to exactly what I was saying. At

1123
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 4: the bottom. There are like two different women that aren't

1124
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 4: going for anyone. They're just at the bottom. And then

1125
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 4: there are also men at the same exact rank on

1126
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 4: the bottom, and for some reason they're like.

1127
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 3: No, no, no, and like it's just not true, because

1128
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 3: nobody has ruined ugirly pop's life more than a medium

1129
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 3: ugly man.

1130
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

1131
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 4: So just like.

1132
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 2: Man, I have, I haven't been around the block a

1133
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 2: few times. I have seen and these guys will know

1134
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 2: I'm talking about them because they listened to the show,

1135
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 2: and they'll take this with pride. I have seen some

1136
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: busted ass dudes with some lovely partners, right, and it's

1137
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 2: because yeah, they're they're not great at like doing their

1138
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 2: hair or dressing up or even showering every day.

1139
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 3: They're really nice intellectually, like interesting, funny gentlemen.

1140
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 2: Hello, Yeah, they can build a house on their own,

1141
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 2: and they don't have they have skill.

1142
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 4: I briefly dated a guy that did so many steroids.

1143
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,439
Speaker 4: H he I've had about it after like two months

1144
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 4: of dating and I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense,

1145
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 4: and then we broke up. But it didn't do anything

1146
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 4: for me. I was honestly like, it's a little bit

1147
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 4: like you seem a little too into how big your

1148
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 4: arms are like this seems like it's for you, and

1149
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 4: like in that case, like that's fine. It's like you know,

1150
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 4: putting makeup on for yourself. But like this, this idea

1151
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 4: of what a masculine man is is so fucking crazy. No,

1152
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 4: when in reality, we just want you to have skill.

1153
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 4: You have to have skills and be secure. There is like, honestly,

1154
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 4: it is so hot to be able to like text

1155
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 4: my boyfriend Bet and be like, hey, do you want

1156
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 4: to go get a pedicure and he'd be like yeah, sure, Yeah,

1157
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 4: it feels good and like you're taking care of yourself.

1158
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: Hygiene's hot, hien.

1159
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 2: The number one thing I have seen is like a

1160
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 2: if you want to use the I hate to you,

1161
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: but to use the term game. The number one like

1162
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 2: example of game that I know is a guy who

1163
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: knows how to cook really well. That's like very close

1164
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 2: to the top of the list for me.

1165
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 4: It's like just being able to do really good bits,

1166
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 4: like bits that aren't punching down like constant bits respect

1167
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 4: but also like you're able to make sushietos, the soy sauce.

1168
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:45,479
Speaker 2: Yeah it's silver.

1169
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 3: I just really want a T shirt that says hygiene

1170
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 3: is hot, really neat that at least a pin somebody.

1171
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can cook a soiu fle a and you

1172
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 2: can like fix the insulation in like a bad addict.

1173
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: And I'm one hundred say guitar, and I'm one hundred

1174
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 3: percent sure you wash your hands every time after you

1175
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 3: use the bathroom right, and clip your nails, honey.

1176
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: And honestly, guys, I hate to say it, that's not

1177
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 2: even a hard requirement. The bar for men is low.

1178
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 4: The bar for men is so low. I mean, whiles

1179
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 4: are like you need to have this, this, this, and

1180
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 4: this for women too, and it's like I'm like, oh god,

1181
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 4: it's so hot when like a guy takes out the

1182
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 4: trash and like you don't have to ask him to

1183
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 4: do it, he just does it.

1184
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I have literally had the experience of

1185
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 2: going out on a double date with a friend and

1186
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: being with like two friends right one one male and

1187
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 2: one female and pointing to like my friend who's the dude,

1188
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 2: and being like, hey man, your shirt's on inside out

1189
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 2: and him going, hey man, yours is too. Like the

1190
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 2: bar is on the floor.

1191
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 4: I mean, like women I dated, and there are like

1192
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 4: so many things where it's almost like just living like

1193
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 4: being with a really good roommate, you know, like where

1194
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,919
Speaker 4: it's like, oh yeah, like you just did the thing.

1195
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 4: And so when you meet a guy that also just

1196
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 4: does those things because they're considerate, it's like, wow, that's

1197
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 4: so hot.

1198
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, we could continue off of mogging the.

1199
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 4: A dating podcast. Yeah, it has and we have thoughts.

1200
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 2: So I should say before we go out here that

1201
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 2: from the jump, lookism and in cel thought is also

1202
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 2: heavily rooted in eugenics and race science. This is immediately

1203
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 2: part of what's going on, and it's there from the

1204
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: beginning up to the present day, a major and it's

1205
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: not always the way that you'd think, right, this is

1206
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: not just like weird white guy race science. One major

1207
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 2: and angry subset of in cells are young men of

1208
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 2: Asian descent, and these guys come to the convince themselves

1209
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 2: that Asian men are inherently unattractive. Based on this PSL system,

1210
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 2: if you are an Asian man, it's impossible for you

1211
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: to be hot basically, which okay, man, but this has

1212
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 2: led to a situation a problem in the US where

1213
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 2: high sexual market value Asian women only date white men,

1214
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: who are by naturally the highest desk V group, because

1215
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 2: again this is all basically repurpose Nazi race science. All

1216
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 2: of these male beauty standards are envisioned with like Casper

1217
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 2: van Dean from Starship Troopers as like a ten right,

1218
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 2: A blonde, square jawed aryan man is like the peak

1219
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 2: of attractiveness.

1220
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 4: And there's also the racist aspect of being like, well,

1221
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 4: she's just gonna have black babies with some black man.

1222
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 4: Like that's something that I get my fucking replies all

1223
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 4: the time. There's so fucking racist.

1224
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, tons of it, and it's yeah, it's like that,

1225
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 2: that's an important aspect of it too. This is not

1226
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: just guys like coming up with their own silly scale.

1227
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 2: They're also repurposing a lot of like old race science bullshit.

1228
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: You know, so what you have kind of by twenty thirteen,

1229
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,439
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, right before Elliott Roger does what he's going

1230
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 2: to do, you've gotten to the point where you've got

1231
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: the in cell communities come up with these scale and

1232
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 2: like this set of of hard requirements for what it

1233
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 2: takes to be handsome or lovable, I guess I should say.

1234
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 2: And because like half of the cells accept all this

1235
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 2: and they decide Okay, Well, if there's physical features that

1236
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: make me attractive, I'll just work out, or all diet

1237
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 2: or all have dangerous and painful surgery. But there are

1238
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 2: ways I can change my physical features and I might

1239
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 2: then be able to find lover at least have sex. Right,

1240
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 2: And that's bad. That's pretty toxic. That is the strain

1241
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 2: of in seldom that does bring us looks maxing and clavicular.

1242
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: But as toxic and crazy and stupid as that site is,

1243
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 2: they're the objectively healthier part of the in cell community

1244
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 2: because they believe they can improve their situation. The other

1245
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 2: half of in cells become, in their words, blackpilled. They

1246
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 2: basically believe in the principles of Lukism, but they deny

1247
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 2: that at least they specifically have any hope of improving

1248
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 2: their PSL score. They're inherently ugly men. Even surgery can't

1249
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: help them. And if you're someone who can't even fix

1250
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: your looks through surgery, you only have two options. You

1251
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 2: can commit suicide or you can commit suicidal mass murder,

1252
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: which they call going er as reference to Elliot Roger. Right,

1253
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 2: those are your only options. That's the blackpill chunk of

1254
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 2: the community. So that's where we are. But like twenty fourteen.

1255
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 2: Great cool, it just took five years.

1256
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 4: Awesome.

1257
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 2: Wow, it took five years to go from I don't

1258
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 2: like mystery to I think I might need to kill

1259
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 2: a bunch of people because I can't get a date.

1260
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 2: It takes a lot less time than that.

1261
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 4: Now, Yeah, it takes like a week. I hate it.

1262
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 3: Here, yeah, Kat, you want to you want to give

1263
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 3: a plug for the campaign at the end here?

1264
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 4: Oh right, yeah, okay, running for Congress. Yeah, so I'm

1265
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 4: ready for Congress because we don't have Democrats. You know

1266
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 4: how to handle the far right, and that's what I've

1267
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 4: devoted my wife to. You can find more about my

1268
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 4: campaign at catfurillinois dot com. If you are in the

1269
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 4: Chicago area, check what district you're in. I'm Illinois nine.

1270
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 4: Our election is March seventeenth. Please consider donating or volunteering.

1271
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 4: Our discord server is discord dot gg slash cat for Illinois.

1272
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 4: We need all hands on deck.

1273
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: Excellent, All right, everybody, Well that's part one. Check Cat's

1274
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 2: campaign out. If you're in Illinois, you know, vote for

1275
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 2: for the love of Goodness and we'll be back on

1276
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,439
Speaker 2: Thursday to talk about things that will depress you even

1277
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 2: more and eventually talk about bone smashing.

1278
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 3: Thank God, good Lord, Bye bye bye.

1279
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1280
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1281
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1282
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video

1283
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: episodes that Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix,

1284
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Pit Remind me on Netflix

1285
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older

1286
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel YouTube

1287
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Speaker 1: dot com slash at Behind the Bastards. We love about

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Speaker 1: forty percent of you, statistically speaking,