1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

2
00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:21,639
Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress, friends, fans, listeners, and internet pals.

3
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: This is an episode you all have been waiting for

4
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,640
Speaker 1: and telling me you've been waiting for. We are finally

5
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,199
Speaker 1: joined on Work in Progress this week by none other

6
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: than Katerina Scorsone. She is one of those rare performers

7
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 1: who brings a stunningly present emotional intelligence to every role.

8
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: She's best known for her more than a decade spanning

9
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,239
Speaker 1: turn as doctor Amelia Sheppard on Gray's Anatomy. She has

10
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:56,240
Speaker 1: built a gorgeous career playing complicated, honest, fiercely human women

11
00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,160
Speaker 1: characters who fall apart and rebuild and somehow emerge in

12
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 1: more whole than before. But her story off screen is

13
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: just as compelling. Katerina was born and raised in Toronto

14
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 1: in a very creative household, one of five siblings. She's

15
00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,800
Speaker 1: been acting professionally as a child, but took a little

16
00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,759
Speaker 1: left turn thinking she might actually be a doctor, only

17
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,319
Speaker 1: to boomerang all the way back and become one on TV.

18
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 1: Her parents were academics who also ran homeless shelters, so

19
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,039
Speaker 1: from a really early age she's had a keen sense

20
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,720
Speaker 1: of life's complexities and how important it is for us

21
00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 1: to show up in service of each other. She has

22
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: managed to merge all of her passions in such a

23
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,120
Speaker 1: meaningful way on an off screen and perhaps off screen,

24
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,759
Speaker 1: she's taken on her most meaningful role of all as

25
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 1: a mother of three and now an incredible advocate for

26
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: disability inclusion. Drawing from her experience raising one of her

27
00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: three daughters with Down syndrome, she chooses to use her

28
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 1: platform to promote greater understanding, to end stigmas, and to

29
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 1: create community for people who value both voice and heart.

30
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,120
Speaker 1: Let's dive in and talk about all of these beautiful,

31
00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:26,800
Speaker 1: beautiful things with Katerina. Hi, Hi, I'm happy that you're

32
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,520
Speaker 1: finally here. And I know the whole Internet, like the

33
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,080
Speaker 1: whole Internet, the Gray's Internet, the gay Internet, like the

34
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 1: whole just want it has been shouting for you to

35
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: be with us on this show. And I'm so happy

36
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: we made.

37
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,160
Speaker 2: Well and we finally gotten together in like some capacity,

38
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,919
Speaker 2: whether Cass and Amelia ever make it there, I go together.

39
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 1: And together exactly well, I think too. Like everyone's. Internet's

40
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 1: kind of broke a few years ago when we hosted

41
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 1: our big like post soccer game party my house, and

42
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 1: everyone was like, wait, all these people know each other, Like,

43
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 1: oh my god, Oh my god.

44
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,000
Speaker 3: That was awesome. Yeah, that was a great party, by.

45
00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 1: The way, it was so fun.

46
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:07,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

47
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that we tend to find each other

48
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,840
Speaker 1: in so many spaces, whether it's like in our day jobs,

49
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,959
Speaker 1: literally on the same show at the moment, yeah, in advocacy,

50
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,680
Speaker 1: in supporting women's sports, like yeah, we always say like

51
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:26,760
Speaker 1: you're here, of course.

52
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

53
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 2: Well, and I feel like also through time, like the

54
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 2: fact that we've kind of like woven past each other.

55
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 3: I mean we've been how long have you been doing this?

56
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 2: How long have you been an actor? And all of

57
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 2: the other things. But you know that being the first professional.

58
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't start going on auditions until college,

59
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 1: So not until I was eighteen. I was working and

60
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,600
Speaker 1: you know, doing recurrings and like a little movie here,

61
00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 1: a little thing there, you know, starting in college, and

62
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 1: then I was I don't know, I think i'd been

63
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,960
Speaker 1: twenty one for like a week or something when I

64
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 1: bumped one tree hilp okay, and so like it's twenty years.

65
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 2: And I'm I'm literally I can't even do the math

66
00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,119
Speaker 2: was that in like the early odts.

67
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah it was two thousand and three.

68
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,880
Speaker 3: Okay, and that was on trial two thousand and three.

69
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 1: Two thousand and three, Like a great what a crazy

70
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,320
Speaker 1: time when you think back to like the early sort

71
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,320
Speaker 1: of tabloid Internet and the way we treated women and

72
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 1: the fact that anyone dared to call Britney Spears fat,

73
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 1: like it was such a toxic soup of things. Yeah.

74
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,839
Speaker 2: Well, and I think a lot of the kind of

75
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 2: younger people are coming up now, like truly can't understand

76
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:48,560
Speaker 2: the context that a lot of the specifically actresses we're

77
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 2: living through, like in the pre me Too era and

78
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 2: then like he's like when Weinstein was like running the

79
00:04:54,440 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 2: town versus you know this era now of like hr yeah,

80
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 2: like you know.

81
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,040
Speaker 1: Like it's not perfect, but at least you have someone

82
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,119
Speaker 1: to go ask for help. I will say, it's so weird.

83
00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,480
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so much I've learned in kind

84
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,160
Speaker 1: of hindsight because booking that show, you know, it took

85
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: me to small town North Carolina for a decade, So

86
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,599
Speaker 1: there was a lot that we experienced in our little bubble,

87
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 1: and certainly the pressures of the time and the commentary

88
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,440
Speaker 1: and all the craziness. But like the industry stuff, I

89
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: didn't know any I didn't know any of it. I

90
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,600
Speaker 1: didn't know any of those people. I was like, I

91
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 1: was very rarely around. And so it's crazy too. You know,

92
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 1: some of the things I've heard since and learned since,

93
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 1: I'm just like, holy shit, out did how.

94
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 3: Does this existan? Yeah? Yeah?

95
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 2: Well, And I think one of the things that we

96
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 2: have now, I don't again, I don't think it's perfect,

97
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 2: like you said, and I think that there's still a

98
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,799
Speaker 2: lot of like egregious things that happen. But I think

99
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:08,880
Speaker 2: what we got was a vocabulary for even understanding what

100
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,839
Speaker 2: was egregious and how the kind of power structures work,

101
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 2: and you know, where we're entitled to more safety than

102
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,680
Speaker 2: we've been given. And so I think what we really gained,

103
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 2: you know, is this vocabulary for moving forward slowly and

104
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,839
Speaker 2: then like two steps forward, one step back, but we

105
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,839
Speaker 2: can keep going with kind of a deeper understanding of

106
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 2: what's happening.

107
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 1: That's a really beautiful way to put it. I'm curious,

108
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, not just about career and present day and

109
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: so many other things people know about you, But if

110
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 1: we went back, you know, if we got to walk

111
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 1: out onto the playground right now and see our eight

112
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 1: year old selves. Who would eight year old Katerina be?

113
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,280
Speaker 2: I don't feel far away from her, you know what

114
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,480
Speaker 2: I mean? And I think, I think and I've heard

115
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,479
Speaker 2: you ask this question before, and it kind of has

116
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,840
Speaker 2: given me pause because I because I'm like, well, what

117
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 2: did I.

118
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,279
Speaker 3: Think I would do? Or who would I be?

119
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 2: And I think I actually just wasn't oriented that way

120
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 2: in that I think I wasn't kind of looking at

121
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 2: myself and wondering what kind of you know, noun person

122
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 2: I would be as an adult.

123
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 3: I think I was.

124
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: Very located in an observer position inside of myself. And

125
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 2: so I think my mom's even talked about it. I'm

126
00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,760
Speaker 2: like one of five kids, and she's kind of said

127
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 2: that very distinctly and specifically. When I was born and

128
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 2: when I was a little kid, I was kind of

129
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 2: always looking and I was like looking, looking, looking and

130
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 2: trying to like gather information to understand how things were, yeah, right,

131
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 2: And I think that that kind of whatever I became,

132
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 2: I think that remains.

133
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 3: And I think as an.

134
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,720
Speaker 2: Actor, as an artist, as a an activist and a

135
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 2: social advocate who's trying to like understand the structures of

136
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 2: why things are the way they are, and you know,

137
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 2: how you create a person on screen and why they

138
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 2: function the way they do. I think it is this

139
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,200
Speaker 2: kind of orientation of like curious observation, and that feels

140
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 2: familiar throughout my life.

141
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 1: And you started on a children's series at eight, right, Yeah,

142
00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: I did, which is also so crazy.

143
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

144
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 2: Correct, And I think I understood. I did not understand

145
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,920
Speaker 2: until listening to your podcast. You're Canadian somehow.

146
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. So my dad's Canadian.

147
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:35,319
Speaker 2: Okay.

148
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,400
Speaker 1: My dad is from Montreal and moved to la in

149
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,559
Speaker 1: the seventies to go to art school and stayed right,

150
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,840
Speaker 1: started his business and did his whole thing. And my

151
00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,479
Speaker 1: mom is from the East Coast and her mom immigrated

152
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 1: to the US as a young kid, and so it's

153
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 1: like big American dream, anything is possible here energy on

154
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:57,720
Speaker 1: both sides of my family.

155
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,560
Speaker 2: My parents had the reverse journey. My mom was born

156
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 2: in New York and my dad actually, yeah, my dad

157
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 2: was born in Italy and then he was in Argentina

158
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 2: for a long time, and then he was in California

159
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,680
Speaker 2: and New York and eventually they both met in grad

160
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,440
Speaker 2: school in Canada, and then they stayed and so I

161
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 2: was born in Canada.

162
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:24,080
Speaker 1: But wow, yeah, so how how does little year old

163
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,240
Speaker 1: Katerina tell her parents I want to go be on

164
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 1: a TV show? How did that happen?

165
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,559
Speaker 2: It was not that, I mean, I think I had

166
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 2: kind of one of those unusual journeys. My older sister

167
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 2: we were in a choir. We were in like a

168
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 2: children's choir. And my older sister wanted to be an actor.

169
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,440
Speaker 2: And I wanted to be a doctor.

170
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,400
Speaker 1: What kind of doctor? I wanted to be a heart surgeon.

171
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to toasts.

172
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, I wanted to be obg I n oh,

173
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,320
Speaker 2: my god, look at us.

174
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,439
Speaker 1: And we played doctors on TV. Yeah.

175
00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 2: So I wanted to be a doctor. But my parents,

176
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 2: who you know, both were academics. They both had PhDs,

177
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,319
Speaker 2: but they had opted to My dad had a PhD

178
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 2: in social work and my mom was a social anthropologist,

179
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 2: and so they had this like whack of five children,

180
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 2: but not a lot of cash. And so, you know,

181
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,880
Speaker 2: a family value of ours was like get educated. But

182
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 2: I knew that you'd have to pay.

183
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:18,679
Speaker 3: Tuition to do that.

184
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 2: And so my sister wanted to be an actor, and

185
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 2: I was kind of with her when she was meeting

186
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,880
Speaker 2: her first agent that my parents were like, okay, you can,

187
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,600
Speaker 2: but it's not like I don't know, just if you want.

188
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 2: And then the agent was like, why don't you come

189
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 2: along too? And I just knew that I could like

190
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 2: save up money for tuition if it worked out, and

191
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:40,319
Speaker 2: be a doctor.

192
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,520
Speaker 3: And so it kind of in a weird kind of metaway.

193
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saved up tuition and life was long. But

194
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,000
Speaker 2: somehow I'm now like an actor doctor, a doctor on TV.

195
00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,120
Speaker 1: I think there's really something about it. I think it

196
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 1: does something on a sort of spiritual level when you

197
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,880
Speaker 1: get to achieve your grown up and childhood dream at

198
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,559
Speaker 1: the same time, which is how I feel like being

199
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 1: on set and doing a scene in an open heart surgery,

200
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, I did it. I weirdly manifested, like my

201
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,480
Speaker 1: two favorite things to do. This is so crazy.

202
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 2: Well, and I'll say I recently I had kind of

203
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:28,200
Speaker 2: an interesting experience because I do get really hyper like

204
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: I love acting and I love storytelling, and I get

205
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,320
Speaker 2: really interested in the storylines and in the medicine of

206
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,719
Speaker 2: the storylines. Yeah, and so I'm like super interested in

207
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 2: neural which is which is Amelia's specialty. And so I'll

208
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: often like steal the props from set when they when

209
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,959
Speaker 2: they've like printed out things about the newest studies on Alzheimer's.

210
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,080
Speaker 3: And oeass and I'm like, think you can read them? Yes,

211
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,320
Speaker 3: And then I'll like go down rabbit holes. And so

212
00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 3: I have learned a lot in that time.

213
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,680
Speaker 2: I'm and and then recently, my one of my kids

214
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 2: did have a big surgery and it was a it

215
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 2: was a heart surgery, and and and the information really

216
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 2: kind of served in that setting, you know, in terms

217
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 2: of my ability to advocate for her and my ability

218
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 2: to kind of read all of the charts and understand

219
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 2: exactly what was going on and kind of be the

220
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,760
Speaker 2: you know, the I on everything as like different doctors

221
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 2: and nurses are like changing shifts, and you kind of

222
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,679
Speaker 2: get to be this through line for your kid and

223
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,679
Speaker 2: you have to be. But I think real life and

224
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 2: this kind of like fantasy life have have really kind

225
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,400
Speaker 2: of worked together in a beautiful way.

226
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 1: That's so cool. It just it feels like a little

227
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:44,720
Speaker 1: nod from the universe.

228
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll be back in just a minute.

229
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 1: But here's a word from our sponsors. When did it

230
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,840
Speaker 1: hit you? Because you know, I get that as a

231
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,319
Speaker 1: kid on mister dress up, You're going, Oh, I can

232
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,480
Speaker 1: work the way my sister works. I can save up

233
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,600
Speaker 1: money for college. This feels fun. It's a little summer campy.

234
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:15,360
Speaker 1: But when does acting as a professional goal sort of

235
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 1: crystallize in your mind.

236
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 2: The first answer is when I was like fifteen, I

237
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,720
Speaker 2: was doing a show for Disney, and a bunch of

238
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 2: the kids there were just like really focused on their

239
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,840
Speaker 2: like professional careers. And I think that was actually the

240
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 2: first moment that I realized that this was not an

241
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 2: extracurricular activity yeah, that I happened to be doing like

242
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,640
Speaker 2: in school hours. Like I really thought we were all

243
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,480
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, some kids play soaper and

244
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,679
Speaker 2: some kids are inquirer, and then some kids do acting

245
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,680
Speaker 2: and then you go and have your adult life. And

246
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 2: it was really like a light bulb when I realized

247
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,080
Speaker 2: that these kids this is going to be their grown

248
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 2: up life.

249
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,760
Speaker 3: Wait what yeh?

250
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,120
Speaker 2: And that was when I realized you could like be

251
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:56,599
Speaker 2: a storyteller professionally.

252
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,080
Speaker 1: Wow. And I still was kind of.

253
00:13:59,080 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 3: On the fence.

254
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure or if I wanted to do that.

255
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,400
Speaker 2: I got a little serious about it, and then at

256
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 2: about nineteen, I was like in la and there's a

257
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 2: whole journey. But I decided I wanted to go and

258
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,760
Speaker 2: do college and study other things. But then in that

259
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 2: process I was studying like literary studies and philosophy and

260
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,640
Speaker 2: compared to religions, and I came to understand how important

261
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 2: narrative storytelling was for like the human journey. You know,

262
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 2: I hit my parents again, like they were in social

263
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 2: work and they were you know, running soup kitchens and

264
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,680
Speaker 2: helping people with these very like tangible, real world problems,

265
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,040
Speaker 2: and I kind of thought like, oh, that's what's important.

266
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 2: Being a doctor is important, Running a homeless shelter is important.

267
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 2: Acting is frivolous, you know what I mean. And actually,

268
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 2: when I left acting and went back to college and

269
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 2: actually started studying philosophy and again compared to religions and

270
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 2: literary studies, it kind of crystallized for me that the

271
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 2: reason we feed people and the reason we house people

272
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 2: is because we're all engaged in this miracle which is life,

273
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 2: and that for us to fully participate in that miracle,

274
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 2: this kind of conscious attention that allows us to read

275
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 2: the story of self and its relationality with other is like,

276
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 2: that's why we're that's why we eat, you know, and

277
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 2: so they're both important. You feed the people so that

278
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,040
Speaker 2: they can have this experience of consciousness through narrative.

279
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: The root of that is empathy, and the quickest way

280
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 1: to get in touch with or create empathy is to

281
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 1: learn someone's story. And I had a very similar experience

282
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 1: to you in college. You know, I wanted to be

283
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 1: a doctor. Then I decided I was going to go

284
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 1: get a bfan theater, and I was in the honors

285
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 1: program at my university, and one of the things I

286
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 1: was really heavily focused on was theology and philosophy. Cool

287
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 1: and studying these things. You know, It's like, I know,

288
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 1: it can be just like, oh my god, roll your eyes.

289
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: The actor talking about how before there was written language,

290
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: we were passing stories, but.

291
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 3: We were we were the value.

292
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 1: Of the story, the generational song, the humans around the

293
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 1: campfire at night passing down what we believe. It's like,

294
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,840
Speaker 1: it's so foundational to who we are. And it made

295
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 1: me realize why shows like yours, which I'm lucky enough

296
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 1: to come play on sometimes, are so important because they

297
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 1: actually teach us about science through the lens of human experience.

298
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 1: They and they do also teach us to advocate for ourselves.

299
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 2: One of the things that Gray's Anatomy has done really well,

300
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 2: I think is that it is in dialogue with the

301
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 2: culture through the debt shades. I mean, we've been over

302
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 2: twenty two years, many things have happened, many cultural conversations

303
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 2: have happened, and I think Shanda Rhymes and you know,

304
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,800
Speaker 2: the showrunners who have come after are sensitive to Okay,

305
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 2: what are we talking about. Let's let's have that conversation.

306
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 2: And so one of the kind of scary things was

307
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 2: during COVID, we decided to do a COVID season, which

308
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 2: in some ways was very claustrophobic and very like I mean.

309
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,880
Speaker 1: You guys in those like the arrivals, those like space suits, which, yeah.

310
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 3: That was a lot, but we had it was a

311
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 3: hard season.

312
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 2: It was the hard season to shoot, and I think

313
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 2: it was a hard season to watch. But I think

314
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 2: one of the things that it did was it provided

315
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 2: medical communication to a lot of people who did.

316
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 3: Not have access.

317
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 2: And I think it provided witness to a lot of

318
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 2: the healthcare workers and frontline workers who were dealing with

319
00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 2: this like yeah, unbelievably on speed ekable day to day trauma.

320
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 1: Yes, And then also being accused of like being secret

321
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 1: agents to some big conspiracy, and you're like, these people

322
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 1: are literally on the front lines of death trying to

323
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:13,439
Speaker 1: keep people alive.

324
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 3: But I think you're right.

325
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,120
Speaker 2: I think that medical communication and scientific communication is so

326
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: important because I think the reason we're so polarized, I

327
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 2: mean as a country and in many ways is because

328
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 2: there is this lack of transparency, you know, or there's

329
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,200
Speaker 2: kind of this assumption that everyone's on the same page.

330
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 2: And I think what we've realized in the last kind

331
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,400
Speaker 2: of election cycle is we're so far from the page

332
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 2: that we thought that we assumed people were on. And

333
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 2: it's like this big wake up of like, oh, we

334
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: were all assuming that we were having the same conversation.

335
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 3: We were not. We were not.

336
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 2: By projecting our assumptions onto people, we are wholly unprepared

337
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,119
Speaker 2: for actually the experience that other people are having and

338
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 2: therefore what is going to affect our country. But but yeah,

339
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 2: informed consent is important, and unless you have the information,

340
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 2: you don't feel like you can consent. So even if

341
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,159
Speaker 2: it's even if the scientific community is trying to do

342
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 2: something benevolent and for your best interest, people are going

343
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 2: to be suspect if they don't have the information to

344
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 2: make their own decisions, and so we really like address that.

345
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 1: What was it like when you like discovered Grays in

346
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 1: the first place. Were you a watcher before you joined

347
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 1: the cast? Like what was that all the way back

348
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 1: in the beginning?

349
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,680
Speaker 4: Like I had like the box set DVDs of the

350
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 4: first season of Gray's Anatomy, and so I was like

351
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 4: doing finals, and the way I would decompress from like

352
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 4: studying was I would watch this new show, Gray's Anatomy

353
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 4: in this like on BBD.

354
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love it.

355
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,959
Speaker 2: And I was I instantly fell in love with it,

356
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 2: and I thought it was just like such an exciting,

357
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 2: dynamic show and you know, the patos and the drama,

358
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 2: and it was so sexy and and I was like,

359
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 2: I think, I I think I want to be a doctor.

360
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 2: I think I you know, I wanted to be a

361
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 2: doctor as a kid, but then I was like, no,

362
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to be you know, all of these other

363
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 2: kind of social justice things. And then I got to

364
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: end U undergrad and I was like, I think I

365
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 2: do want to be a doctor after seeing this, And

366
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 2: so I ended up going to the medical faculty at

367
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: the University of Toronto and signing up for this like

368
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 2: six week lecture series where surgeons would come in and

369
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 2: lecture to like humanities students about like what being a

370
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 2: doctor was in case you wanted to like take your

371
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 2: Humanity's degree and like now become a doctor. And so

372
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 2: I listened to six weeks of surgeons talking about actually

373
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 2: what their day is like and what surgery is like.

374
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 2: And I got to the end of that series and

375
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 2: I was like, I think, I just I think I

376
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,360
Speaker 2: just want to be on grais an enemy.

377
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 3: It turns out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I.

378
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: Want to tell the stories for the doctor.

379
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, more pathos, it was more on call rooms.

380
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: I love it what you been able to do as

381
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: an actor through the character of Amelia. You know, trauma, addiction,

382
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,239
Speaker 1: grief such a complex specialty, as you mentioned earlier. I mean,

383
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,880
Speaker 1: the field of neuroscience is it's like almost sci fi.

384
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 3: It's so cool, mysterious and evolving.

385
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: Like what you do has been so deeply personal and

386
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: human and also so incredibly technical. I mean, after fifteen

387
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: years of this is I was about to say, is

388
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 1: there a like there could be one silly me? What

389
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: would you say? Or the kind of top handful biggest

390
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 1: takeaways or like lessons or kind of magical learnings you've

391
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: had from doing this job.

392
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: Well, I do love learning scrubs and the running because

393
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 2: as you probably know, like I've done so many shows

394
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 2: where you're like in a dark factory running in like

395
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 2: four inchields with a gun and.

396
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: That hurts, but physically like you're like, oh, may make

397
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: this decision.

398
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not what would happen. And so the

399
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: wardrobe gras Anatomy is the best one I've ever had.

400
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 3: I love that.

401
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 2: I love about Grays that because it's this massive cast

402
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 2: and our fan base is so broad, and it's all

403
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 2: of the world, and it's every age group, and I

404
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: feel like in this kind of like I don't know,

405
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 2: like uh, fractured postmodern echo chambering world, I feel like Grays.

406
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 3: Is such a unifier.

407
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 2: But also that all of the different characters seem to

408
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: serve this like Yomian function for people, where like almost

409
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 2: like the kind of like avatars that you would find

410
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: on like Olympus or like these kind of Yumian like archetypes.

411
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: People identify certain characters with different aspects of self and

412
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 2: they can kind of negotiate their own kind of inner

413
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: journey in relationships through the characters on Grace, And so

414
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: there's this like opportunity for Catharsis. And I think also

415
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: I think like the audience. I think all of the

416
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: people who have been involved in Gray's Anatomy have like

417
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 2: been on this journey that Shonda Rhimes put us on

418
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,239
Speaker 2: of like a mission based show, which is entertaining and

419
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 2: sexy and hot and something everybody wants to watch. But

420
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 2: we're also like again breaking down these social conversations and

421
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: having new ones and starting to understand intersectionality and marginalized

422
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: communities that in the first few seasons weren't even talked about.

423
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: And by the end we're like talking about identities that

424
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: had never never even approached being on mainstream television. We're

425
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: kind of breaking down binaries and finding a new way

426
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: to approach an understanding of visibility, you know.

427
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 3: And so that's that's been exciting.

428
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's so special. And then in the

429
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 1: sort of backdrop of all this storytelling and boundary breaking,

430
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: to your point, you've had this incredible evolution as a person,

431
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, becoming a mom and your life

432
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,479
Speaker 1: growing in that way. I mean, you've got three kids,

433
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: and like, Yeah, what's the experience being part of such

434
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: a big on screen world and then building such a

435
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: big off screen world. I feel like because of the

436
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: way that you were raised and what you saw modeled

437
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: in terms of service and showing up and also a

438
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: big family, Like, maybe maybe did it feel more natural

439
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: to you to be invested so deeply in multiple worlds

440
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: at once.

441
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it is interesting.

442
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: We're you know, I moved to la and I was

443
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: pretty much cast into Shondaland like within a year of

444
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 2: arriving here. And so actually most of my like art

445
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: and soul friends that I met immediately are on the show.

446
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 2: And so we would have these like, you know, incredibly

447
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 2: intense interactions on screen, and then behind the scenes somebody

448
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: would be having a baby or getting divorced or getting

449
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: a cancer diagnosis, or like working through some sort of We.

450
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: Just went through so much.

451
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: And the private I'm going to include the private practice

452
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 2: cast in this conversation. Amelia was like on Grays and

453
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: Private Practice at the same time for three years and

454
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: then private Practice ended and she ended.

455
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: Up on Grace.

456
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: But we're all like, all the private practice people are

457
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: still on a text thread together yeah, like marriages, babies, divorces,

458
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: like understanding. I don't know, it kind of all weaves together.

459
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and I.

460
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: Think even just like one of the most exciting things

461
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: for me being kind of a woman in this industry

462
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: is like going from a place of playing au to

463
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 2: like understanding her kind of going from like male gaze

464
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 2: angenoux to like coming into her own power and becoming

465
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 2: professionally not just adept but masterful and exiting the male

466
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: gaze as like an object of desire and projection and

467
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 2: like coming into kind of her own, uh lived internal

468
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 2: experience as like kind of you know, I just think

469
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: it's like it's a journey that we haven't had the

470
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 2: opportunity to see from women until.

471
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: Something this long standing.

472
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, twenty years of watching women become is

473
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: pretty exciting.

474
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: It's so cool.

475
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

476
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: And Amelia too, Like Amelia went from being kind of

477
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 2: like a wayward you know, sometimes drug addicted, you know,

478
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: wild child, and you know, and she kind of moved

479
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: through wild like and marriage and children and queer spaces

480
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: and like she's just had this very dynamic, full life

481
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah.

482
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute. After a few

483
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: words from our favorite sponsors. Is there something interesting to

484
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: you about that, you know, both in her journey and

485
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: as a woman who like set out on the path.

486
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: But I think so many of us believe we're gonna

487
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: walk right. Like it gets laid out for you and

488
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: you're like, that's how it works, and you build the

489
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: life and you do the things and you check it off,

490
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: and then you're like, uh oh, like there's something missing

491
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: to in this character and also in the background to

492
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: you know, go through the birth of your three children

493
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: and then to go through your own divorce. Yeah, Like

494
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, we've both been through it,

495
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, recently enough, and it's like.

496
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like I've read sud Yeah, you know,

497
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: I feel like I kind of like again, what you're

498
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: saying is like we kind of had this like prescribed

499
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: assumption about how life is supposed to go. But when

500
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: you start to kind of like investigate where that prescription

501
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: came from and who the doctor was, and you start

502
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: to understand that that doctor was a society that does

503
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: not have the best interests of most of us in mind.

504
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: Yes, then you.

505
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: Start to kind of like deconstruct the protocol.

506
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: I had this experience. I was explaining it to someone

507
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: the other day. I had this great conversation with a

508
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: friend I hadn't seen in a while over dinner, and

509
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I don't think until I knew

510
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: that my what I thought was my happy ending was

511
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: wrong for me, I don't think it had ever dawned

512
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: on me that all the choices I was making perhaps

513
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: weren't choices at all. Right, Like, I don't think women

514
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: are reared to choose. We are reared to be chosen.

515
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: And for me in midlife, looking around and going like, wait,

516
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: did I did I choose any of this? Or did

517
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: I tell myself I was choosing? Like it was sort

518
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: of like going through my own internal earthquake, but it

519
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: felt really good when the shaking stopped. To your point

520
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: like this this I graduated, I'm like, exactly what. And

521
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: on the one hand, I'm kind of heartbroken for myself

522
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: and other people, And on the other hand, I'm like.

523
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: That's just so.

524
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, And again I think people like you know,

525
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: they want to again binary rate everything where they're like, wait,

526
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: are you saying that marriage is bad? No, Like, I

527
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: think not understanding your choices is bad. I think that

528
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: if you are defaulting into, you know, heteronormative marriage and

529
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: kids because you didn't realize there were any other options

530
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: that might be a tragedy for you. And if you are,

531
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: if you can see outside the fish tank, how society

532
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: is structured and how we were socialized from the beginning

533
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 2: of the gender reveal into absolutely different grammatical roles in

534
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: our in our again our social language, and when you

535
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: understand that, you can go well. First of all, is

536
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: that is that authentic femininity and masculinity or is that

537
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: imposed imposed? What is actual authentic feminity? What is actual

538
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: authentic masculinity? How much of each of those do I

539
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: feel inside of myself? And how much of the assigned

540
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: definitions do I want to participate in in my life?

541
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: Being taught to be a good girl, you know often

542
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: people please are often a fixer. A very early parentified child,

543
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I didn't think it didn't dawn

544
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: on me until I was so claustrophobic in my own

545
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: life that I wasn't making to your point full choices.

546
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: I wasn't seeing outside the fish tank. Someone the world

547
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: around me would say, here's five pence, which one do

548
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: you want to write with? And I'd go, I choose

549
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: the blue one, but there's a thousand pens. I never

550
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: asked paper rush. Yeah, but it's like I never asked

551
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: for more because I thought, well, who am I to

552
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: ask for more? But guess what, walk out there and

553
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: look at all the other colors, look at all the

554
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: other things, look at all the other tools, and you

555
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: don't I think you don't even realize how much conditioning

556
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: can stop you from seeing until you you know there's

557
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: more and you rip the blinders off, and then you're like,

558
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: holy shit, look at this world like I didn't know.

559
00:31:59,240 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know.

560
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: Well, And I think that that that is a conversation

561
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: for again, we're kind of like talking from a place

562
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: of like a lot of privilege, right, yes, like being

563
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: white women who are in non disabled bodies, you know

564
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like the wake up.

565
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: Call being able to leave in the first place.

566
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and that that for a long time,

567
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: you know, the limitations of patriarchy, uh with it within

568
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: the understanding of the story of achievement in patriarchy, and

569
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: then like one to purmiss patriarchy like unconsciously if you

570
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: haven't consciously unpacked it, like it's working for a long time,

571
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: you're able to get a lot of a lot of

572
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: things that feel good. And it isn't until you have

573
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: you know, a bunch of like you know, firecracker wake

574
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: up calls in your life where you're like, wait, not everybody, yeah,

575
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: has access to all these nice things, and wait, this

576
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: is I'm this is not the experience everyone's having. And

577
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 2: and those, I think are the moments where when you encounter,

578
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: you know, the first person that you know with disability,

579
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: or when you truly are kind of like when you're

580
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: introduced to kind of intersectional you know, different communities, and

581
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,239
Speaker 2: you realize that that actually our society is created to

582
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: exclude certain people and to include other people, and and

583
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 2: that actually we're all we're all participating in a in

584
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: a structure that is violence to every single individual in it.

585
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: The people with the perception of power. Yeah, it might

586
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: take longer for it to be violent with them, but

587
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: it is. Well, but it is because because it actually

588
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: just all the time, and.

589
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: Just because even even taking away your your informed consent

590
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: about how you're going to live your life, even when

591
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: you're like, you know, you get the pink cake and

592
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: you think you're supposed to choose sparkles like, that's a

593
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 2: violence against your individuality, right and against.

594
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: Yours so reductive.

595
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're uniquely unfolding DNA and all right, and so

596
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: we're all living in the violence of like an imposed

597
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: value system that doesn't serve any of us.

598
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: The things I've witnessed in communities of women over the

599
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: years of my adulthood have been so incredibly beautiful, including

600
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: the willingness to say, hey, I know I have me individually,

601
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: I have these following types of privilege. What am I missing?

602
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: Like one of the coolest things. I just went an

603
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: insane sence I'm about to say. I just got to

604
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: moderate a stop on Kamala Harris's book tour.

605
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 4: And.

606
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: She has this thing, this moment in her book where

607
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: she says, I always ask when people are being gathered

608
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: or when I'm going to meet people, I always ask

609
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: who's not in the room. I always ask who I'm

610
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: not hearing from. And that, to me, I'm like, God,

611
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: more of that. And I'm really curious for you because

612
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: you are such a brilliant woman, friend, mother, performer, advocate.

613
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: I see so much of your wisdom every time I'm

614
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: with you, every time I get to listen to you speak,

615
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: and when I think about your three daughters and the

616
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: fact that your second daughter has Down syndrome, I've read

617
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: all the things you know about how scary it was

618
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: the diagnosis and you were so terrified of what you

619
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: didn't know, and you've gone on to be this incredible

620
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: advocate for her, and you work with the Global Down

621
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: Syndrome Foundation, And I mean even the way you're able

622
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: to talk about ableism and privilege when you know how

623
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: poorly designed the world and its current iteration is for

624
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: us as able bodied, privileged women. And then you look

625
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: at one of your kids who has an added layer

626
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: of struggle in a world like hours, how do you

627
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: focus on what she deserves becoming a motivation and a

628
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: force that activates you rather than either making you so

629
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: mad you go crazy or being so scared that you

630
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: can't sleep at night, Like, how have you learned to

631
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: fuel her future in yourself?

632
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: The beginning of the journey was full of a lot

633
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: of like fear, but really the journey was realizing that

634
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: the fear was because there was no visibility in my life.

635
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: I didn't know, I didn't know what the assignment.

636
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: Was, right.

637
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: I was like, this is a kid. I didn't expect.

638
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 2: You know, what I understand of parenting is that I,

639
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: as a parent, am tasked with taking this little baby

640
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: and helping them to achieve all of the metrics of

641
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: ablest straight SiZ white patriarchy.

642
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: Right.

643
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: All of this is unconscious. This is not what I understand.

644
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 2: I think the task is, but that is unconsciously. You're like,

645
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: I got to make this kid. I got to find

646
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: a good school. I got to make sure they're in sports.

647
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 2: I got to make sure that they can achieve all

648
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: of the markers that will allow them to be included.

649
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 3: Right, And so how am I going to do that?

650
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 2: This kid is going to have more challenges at that task,

651
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: and so you feel really powerless and you're like, I

652
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: don't know how, I don't know how to And then

653
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: you realize that the task is the wrong task, and actually,

654
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 2: like you're not even like the beginning of the advocacy

655
00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: as a parent.

656
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: You're like, I need to make sure that my kid is.

657
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: Included in this ablest weight white patriarchy. You know what

658
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: I mean.

659
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: It's like, actually, no, wait a second, am I am

660
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: I You're like pointing your finger at yourself. Am I

661
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: part of the problem.

662
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 3: Am I heard of the problem?

663
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: No, there's nothing wrong with this child's iteration. She is

664
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: born perfectly individual, just like the rest of us. And

665
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: the moment you stop being afraid of the word disability

666
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 2: is when you realize that disability has nothing to do

667
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 2: with the particular body of someone who can or can't

668
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 2: do certain things. Disability has to do with how much

669
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: society has decided to include people who have different abilities,

670
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: different bodies, different you know, cognitive capacities and whatever. And

671
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 2: I think when you realize that disability is not about

672
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: your kid or or or yourself if you're disabled, like,

673
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: it's about how much does society want to include you

674
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: in a conversation? How much do they want to give

675
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: you the ability to participate, then you can talk about

676
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: disability with no problem because you're actually talking about society.

677
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: Right, And what you're actually talking about is stretching the

678
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: margins of society wider than they have typically been, yeah,

679
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: to make more space for more people.

680
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: And that society is disabling you, right. And society, if

681
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: they decide to build a staircase for an able bodied

682
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 2: man to get to the meeting on the second floor,

683
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: they have given him an accommodation.

684
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 3: He can't jump.

685
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: Sixteen feet, so they have accommodated his disability to get

686
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: to the second floor meeting. Right, Yes, we decided that

687
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: he is worthy of being accommodated.

688
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: Right, You can build a ramp.

689
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 2: You just need to decide that someone in a wheelchair

690
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: is worthy of being accommodated so that they can get

691
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: to that second floor meeting.

692
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 3: Right. And so it really is.

693
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: A out are we creating a society with all types

694
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: of bodies in mind? And you and the same kind

695
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 2: of can be extended to all sorts of kind of

696
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: intersectional exclusion, exclusion for marginalized groups. It's like they have

697
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: been disabled from participation in certain kinds of activities and

698
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: meaningful parts of our of our functioning society.

699
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 3: And so you know, yeah, well.

700
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: And what you're talking about is so obvious and also

701
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: not because we don't we don't have conversations like this

702
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: unless we seek them out. You know, we don't know

703
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: these things. It doesn't dawn on you that, like hello,

704
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: the staircase to the second and third floor is an

705
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: accommodation until someone says it to you in that way.

706
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I do want to shout out Amani and Barbara,

707
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: who is an incredible disabled activists, And actually it was

708
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: it was listening to her where I had kind of

709
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: the light bulb go on this that disability. I think

710
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 2: she said something like talking about the politics of disability

711
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: and like what's going on with like politics right now?

712
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: And she said something along the line and I'll misquote it,

713
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 2: but something along the lines of understand, if the people

714
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: in power want you excluded, they will disable you. And

715
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: whether that's deciding that your identity is not normative and

716
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: therefore not to be accommodated I you know, or not

717
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: providing you with the medical access you need, or you

718
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 2: know that basically the people in power are the people

719
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: who decide who is disabled. And when we're talking about

720
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: disability justice and advocacy, we have to understand that we're

721
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 2: all included, because the second they decide that you are

722
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: an enemy of the state, essentially you get we categorized.

723
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: I yess well, by the way, think about our grandmother's generation.

724
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: Quote hysterical women would get institutionalized. They would force you

725
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 1: to have a lobotomy, they would literally medically disable you. Yeah,

726
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: if you didn't fall in line.

727
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 2: And queerness, you know what I mean like there were

728
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 2: all of these categories that if you look at history,

729
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: they were just classified in ways that made them outside

730
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: of what was okay society, right, And so we and women,

731
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: I mean, are you kidding me? Like women couldn't vote

732
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: because we were like you're not considered like mentally competent,

733
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like that we were disabled

734
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 2: from participating in democracy by these structures like they decide

735
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: absolutely insane.

736
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, you speak on this so beautifully,

737
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: you do so much work. You've educated yourself in such

738
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: incredible ways you teach when you talk in your advocacy

739
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: with the Global Down Syndrome Foundation, I'm curious if there

740
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: have been takeaways or learnings things that you know are

741
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: most hopeful for new parents of newly diagnosed children who

742
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: don't know what you know yet, who are frightened, who

743
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: are overwhelmed, who don't know where to start, Like what's

744
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: the first north star you can point people to so

745
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: they can know how joyful their kid's life is going

746
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: to be the way you know that about your middle daughter.

747
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, oh gosh, there's so much to say.

748
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: And first of all, I want to say, the Global

749
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: Down Center Foundation is amazing and they do a lot

750
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 2: of fundraising to do lots of research that is now

751
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: no longer being prioritized by the government, and so lots

752
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 2: of research that helps again enable people with Down syndrome

753
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: and their families to participate. And then also that helps

754
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: with kind of medical research that gets to kind of

755
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: the root of some of the comorbidities that.

756
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: Go along with Down syndrome.

757
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 2: There's too much to say, so I would just give

758
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 2: them my piece and came like as a parent with

759
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: a nine year old, like there's I would never, ever, ever,

760
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: ever want to go back to the person that I

761
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: was before Pippa was born. In terms of my understanding

762
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: of the world. Pippa is by far my easiest kid.

763
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: It was absolutely authentic rock star of a person who

764
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: I learned from every day. My community has expanded so exponentially.

765
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 2: It shattered kind of a paradigm that allowed me to

766
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: start learning about all different kinds of intersectionality.

767
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 3: I understand myself.

768
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 2: It's just like I guess the takeaway would be like,

769
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: I know you're scared because you don't know what you're doing.

770
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: Take some breaths.

771
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: You're gonna find community and you're gonna know how to

772
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: parent this kid, just like you learn how to parent

773
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: typical kids.

774
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 3: And like it's all going to be okay, You're gonna lie.

775
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 2: And there are hard parts, of course, there's hard parts

776
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: of parenting all kinds of kids.

777
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: But that's so beautiful. Do you think that your lessons

778
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: in possibility expansive thought? You know, what you've learned from

779
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: being her mom helped you cope Back in twenty twenty

780
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: three when you went through your your house fire, Oh

781
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: you know, do you because I know, I mean, we've

782
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: talked about it a bit, but it's such a traumatizing

783
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: thing to go through that. It's an incredibly traumatizing thing

784
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: to lose your home. You went through it two years

785
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: before our whole city went through it, you know, from

786
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: me side all the way to the west. Like, I

787
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: thought so much about your wisdom in those first weeks

788
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 1: of January this year, watching so many people I knew

789
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: go through it, I was like, holy, you know, how

790
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: do you reflect on that experience in terms of your

791
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: perspective on you know, community safety, home family? Because people

792
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: will say it's just a house, it's just stuff, but

793
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: it's also it's it's the record of your life. It's

794
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: both and I imagine.

795
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again I think I mean to be to

796
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 2: be Frank, I was able to navigate our fire in

797
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: part because I had a lot of resources, you.

798
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.

799
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: I had insurance, and I had a place to go,

800
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: I had friends, and then I was able to move

801
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 2: us into a new situation. And I think actually when

802
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: the altaed Dina fires happened and the Palises fires happened,

803
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 2: I think because I had been through all of the

804
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 2: complexity of the kind of bureaucracy of getting my children

805
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: safe again and comfortable again, and how my financial world

806
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: was kind of rocked and affected, just realizing in such

807
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: a profoundly personal way the extent to which there are

808
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: so many families that did not have the infrastructure that

809
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 2: I had. And so as much as there was all

810
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: of the kind of trauma and devastation psychologically emotionally for

811
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: my kids and my family, we didn't have that extra

812
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: layer of like actual houselessness, you know. And that again

813
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: is like it just shines a light on, like our

814
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: society is not structured to take care of us in

815
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: a crisis. And oh, I'll say this, I think one

816
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: of the things we've been learning. Over the last few years,

817
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 2: there's been this like incredible demoralization about the ability of

818
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: the government, whether right or left.

819
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: Or whoever, to take care of us.

820
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,919
Speaker 2: All. Yeah, I think people are more and more demoralized,

821
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: and I think that, yes, it's sad, and yes it's scary,

822
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: and I do think that it has woken us up

823
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: to our need to take care of each other in

824
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: local community. Yes, I think that's what happened during the

825
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 2: fires for a lot of time.

826
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: Yes, well, And it's been really interesting to see people

827
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: much like yourself, the advocate that your life and the

828
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: identity within your family built in you, on top of

829
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: the advocate you were raised to be. I wonder too, like,

830
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: I think about two very big communities for you. I mean,

831
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: obviously you mentioned Grace, we're all well, myself included. I

832
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: was about to say, we're all over here in my

833
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: Instagram feed. It's very upset that Casts and Amelia haven't

834
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: hung out, and that's a problem. I'm also just like,

835
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: as a friend, upset that you know, in the two

836
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: episodes I was on this year, you've been on hiatus.

837
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, girl, what is going on where you? People

838
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: want to know.

839
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 2: Do you know where Amelia is. Well, Amelia's apparently in Boston.

840
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: Doing like a fellowship at Harvard.

841
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: I actually don't know what she's doing in Boston.

842
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 1: Okay, great, she.

843
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 3: Found her people. But she'll be back. She'll be back

844
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 3: in January.

845
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 1: Okay, thank god, we miss so has it been kind

846
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: of nice to have a moment to yourself? How is

847
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: how is like a beat from the intensity of a

848
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: TV schedule? How's that shaping your day to day?

849
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: I'm founding co owner of some yoga studios in La

850
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 2: which also.

851
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that. I love Moto.

852
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: I was only involved Emily Moore when started the studios

853
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: here in la and so we were childhood friends and

854
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 2: so I started it with her in La here.

855
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: And it's such a beautiful studio.

856
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: Well, and I think one of the things that's cool

857
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 2: about that speaking involved in Dina fiers like the Echo

858
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 2: Park studioasically became a community hub. So it was kind

859
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 2: of those studios became kind of spaces where people could

860
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 2: come after like you know, disasters in the city and

861
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 2: there was a pantry at one point, and you know,

862
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: just a lot of community events to kind of organize

863
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 2: and and and bring people together after like suffering this

864
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 2: collective trauma.

865
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: And so yes, yeah, wow, so you've been able to

866
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: lean into that time with friends and family. What feels

867
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: like your work in progress right now?

868
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, I was just talking to somebody about this,

869
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: and I've been doing a lot of actually meditating on it.

870
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: But I think I think I've been doing like a

871
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: contemplation on outsourcing, like how much we outsource and and

872
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 2: that you know, again we can kind of talk about

873
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: our society or you know, our interpersonal relationships, but like

874
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: outsourcing your sense of validity, fulfillment, okayness, accomplishment, just identity

875
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: to like an observer outside the self or a community

876
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 2: outside the self, and that actually there is a community

877
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: inside the self, and that that community happens over time, right,

878
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: And so like I think you did it actually brilliantly.

879
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: You talked about like if you were eight years old

880
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 2: and you saw yourself, would you kind of recognize yourself?

881
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 3: As kind of the thematic question, And I.

882
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 2: Think that what you're doing kind of when you ask

883
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: that question, is you're inviting the community of one iteration

884
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: of yourself to be with the community of the other

885
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: iteration of yourself. And I think that over the years

886
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 2: of your life and over the minutes of your life

887
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 2: and the seconds of your life, all of the choices

888
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: that you've made create this cumulative identity, and those are

889
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 2: the voices all of the seconds of your life where

890
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 2: you were you, Those are the voices that should be

891
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: informing how you feel about who you are and each

892
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: decision that you're making. Those are the voices. All of

893
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: those versions of self are the voices. And you can

894
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: trust those voices because they've shown you how to survive

895
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: all this time, right, And so really just kind of

896
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 2: like understanding that once you once you've made that community

897
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: of self the ultimate arbiter of your sense of safety

898
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: and joy, then you're more free to engage in all

899
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 2: of your interpersonal relationships and all of your social relationships

900
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: in a non transactional way because everything is already provided.

901
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: So your choice is you actually have the ability to

902
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 2: consent to every interaction, your engagement.

903
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 1: I love that you, You, my friend, are a poet.

904
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: You are I'm ready? Are when are you writing a book?

905
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 4: Oh?

906
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 3: Gosh?

907
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: You know, I had three kids and you're like, oh,

908
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: when they're at college.

909
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: You know, it is one of those that I would say,

910
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: that's my little guilty thing of like why am I

911
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,240
Speaker 2: supposed to the When do I say yes to those.

912
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 3: Types of things? I don't know.

913
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 2: You got time, Yeah, thank you for creating a space

914
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 2: like you create a space to kind of like for

915
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: all of the people who don't have time to write

916
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 2: the book. You like are like, tell me about the book,

917
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 2: tell me about.

918
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: The stories that will go in the eventual book.

919
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.

920
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: It makes me so happy to get to you with

921
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: you for a bit. Thank you for coming today, Thank

922
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: you for having me

923
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: H