WEBVTT - Part Two: Catastrophe Compassion: How People Come Together in Crisis

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<v Speaker 1>All Zone media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, everybody. Margaret Kiljoy here recording on a bad microphone

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm on tour, but I feel like I need

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<v Speaker 2>to interrupt your regularly scheduled podcast to talk about something

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<v Speaker 2>that's happening right now as many people are awhere. Hurricane

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<v Speaker 2>Helene hit western North Carolina as well as southern Apalachia

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<v Speaker 2>and Florida very badly over well. I guess last week

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<v Speaker 2>if you're listening to this when it comes out and

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<v Speaker 2>people need your help. And one of the mutual aid

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<v Speaker 2>organizations that is doing an incredible amount of work that

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<v Speaker 2>I can personally vouch for is mutual Aid Disaster Relief.

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<v Speaker 2>Mutual Aid Disaster Relief is a network of people who

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<v Speaker 2>are locally embedded and know the area and are very

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<v Speaker 2>good at what they do. They are a grassroots organization

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<v Speaker 2>that get supplies and people and money to where they

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<v Speaker 2>need to go. I would encourage you to search out

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<v Speaker 2>Mutual Aid Disaster Relief on various social media to find

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<v Speaker 2>more information about how you can donate money, gear, or

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<v Speaker 2>potentially your skills and time if that is something that

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<v Speaker 2>you're interested in. However, it is important to know that

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<v Speaker 2>despite the importance of grassroots and DIY disaster preparedness. It

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<v Speaker 2>is still substantially better to work with existing grassroots and

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<v Speaker 2>DIY organizations because there's a lot that you need to

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<v Speaker 2>know before you can go into a disaster zone and

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<v Speaker 2>help people instead of wind up being someone who needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be helped. And so I would highly encourage people

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<v Speaker 2>to get involved, possibly by donating or by whatever is necessary.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much. Hello, and welcome to Cool People

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<v Speaker 2>Did Cool Stuff? Your podcast? That's it. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 2>Margaret Kiljoy and my guest is Katie Stole. Hi Katie,

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<v Speaker 2>how are you?

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<v Speaker 1>Hello?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing well. I'm doing great. I'm excited for part two.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I'm like I always after I do the real dark,

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<v Speaker 2>long ones that are still about cool people doing cool stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>But I still sometimes I'm like, I just I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously dark things are happening in this but and now

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like a jerk being like this lighthearted thing

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<v Speaker 2>where thousands of people have died.

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<v Speaker 3>So I don't know, right, I get you. But to

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<v Speaker 3>bring it back to where we were last week, it

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<v Speaker 3>is hopeful, It is inspiring, and it brings comfort because

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<v Speaker 3>we know that bad stuff is.

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<v Speaker 5>Going to continue to happen.

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<v Speaker 3>We see it happen all the time, especially with climate change,

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<v Speaker 3>with our.

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<v Speaker 5>Wild politics.

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<v Speaker 3>But the fact that the one through line is that

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<v Speaker 3>people support each other and show up in times of need.

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<v Speaker 3>I think at the end of the day, that's the

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<v Speaker 3>scariest part. It's like the unknown what's going to happen.

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<v Speaker 3>But if you can count on the fact that there

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<v Speaker 3>will be people, that there will be options, then that

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<v Speaker 3>it is. It's comforting for me. It is.

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<v Speaker 2>You ever heard a shepherd's tone, I feel like we

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<v Speaker 2>should splice this in so no matter how long you

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<v Speaker 2>listen to that sound, it'll keep going up.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, that's intense.

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<v Speaker 5>That's cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They actually use it a lot in movies and

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<v Speaker 2>things like that. And you can also design them to

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<v Speaker 2>go down as well. The idea of it is you

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<v Speaker 2>can make something always sound like it's getting higher or

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<v Speaker 2>lower by having their multiple tones are playing at once,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're all going up and then down. Their sine

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<v Speaker 2>waves they go up and down, up and down, up

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<v Speaker 2>and down, right, but you put the volume emphasis on

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<v Speaker 2>the ones as they're rising. In this kind of complicated way,

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<v Speaker 2>your ear will always hear the one that is rising,

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<v Speaker 2>or always hear the one that is lowering. Okay, that

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<v Speaker 2>happens to us with the world. I think things are

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<v Speaker 2>always getting worse, things are always getting better. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>it depends on where you put the emphasis. Now, there

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<v Speaker 2>is still real worse and better. Right, There's obviously things

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<v Speaker 2>that are worse, you know. World War two is a

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<v Speaker 2>worse time overall to be alive than almost anything that's

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<v Speaker 2>happened in human history. But then there's lots of other

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<v Speaker 2>stuff that's really bad too, right. I think about this

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<v Speaker 2>a lot. I think about how what we choose to

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<v Speaker 2>focus on literally changes as things get both better and

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<v Speaker 2>worse what we choose to focus on. But I don't

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<v Speaker 2>advocate us therefore being like only focus on the positive.

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<v Speaker 2>That's nonsense, right, because there's all this horrible stuff that's

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<v Speaker 2>happening that needs fighting. But we can be aware of

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<v Speaker 2>the bad stuff while still not losing track of the

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<v Speaker 2>stuff that's fighting it. Yeah, that's my hypothesis with my

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<v Speaker 2>strange metaphor.

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<v Speaker 5>Absolutely no, that totally works.

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<v Speaker 2>So the story that we're going to talk about today,

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<v Speaker 2>I want to think our producer Sophie, who I hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>introduced yet. Hi, Hi Sophie.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>Sophie is the one who brought the story to my attention.

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<v Speaker 3>Good job, Sophie in advance.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks.

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<v Speaker 2>He also to do the rest of the credits because

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<v Speaker 2>I forgot our audio engineers Rory Hi Rory Hi, Ri

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<v Speaker 2>Hi Rory, and our theme music was written for us

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<v Speaker 2>by unwoman. And then the sort of credit I think

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<v Speaker 2>for sort of bringing this story to more people's attention

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<v Speaker 2>right now is the TikToker Kalia Please, who made a

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<v Speaker 2>short video about this story and got people talking about it.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the chain of events that led to you

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<v Speaker 2>hearing it here. Maybe you've already heard it elsewhere, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to tell you probably a bunch about it

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<v Speaker 2>that you haven't heard. Who knows here we.

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<v Speaker 1>Go, Yeah, I have several friends that grew up in Portland.

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<v Speaker 1>They had no idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So we're gonna tell a story about mutual aid,

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<v Speaker 2>about how the city of Portland broke its own rules

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<v Speaker 2>to get seventy water workers and essential equipment to New

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<v Speaker 2>Orleans during Katrina. It's also though a story of the

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<v Speaker 2>bravery of the Sewerage and water Board of New Orleans.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I started off just looking at the Portland Angle,

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<v Speaker 2>and I loved the Portland Angle, And I'm still going

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<v Speaker 2>to go with that. But then I was like, learning

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<v Speaker 2>more about the sewerage and water board of New Orleans,

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<v Speaker 2>and they are fucking heroes. Yeah, they are the first

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<v Speaker 2>responders who get no credit. Never seen anyone fly a

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<v Speaker 2>thin sewerage and waterboard line flag off the back of

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<v Speaker 2>their pickup truck, although forty percent of cops do fly

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<v Speaker 2>that flag. If you want more information about that, just

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<v Speaker 2>google forty percent of cops. Okay, yeah, okay, anyway, if

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<v Speaker 2>anyone wants to know what joke that is, just google

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<v Speaker 2>forty percent of cops.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, go for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway. The waterboard, the good waterboard.

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<v Speaker 1>The good waterboard.

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<v Speaker 4>There we go.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I kept wanting to call them the water borders

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<v Speaker 2>in this, and then I'm like, I probably can't, but

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<v Speaker 2>maybe I will anyway. The city of New Orleans has

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<v Speaker 2>always had water issues. It is shaped like a bowl,

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<v Speaker 2>it is right in a place that hurricanes like to go,

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<v Speaker 2>and most dangerous of all, it's poor and predominantly black.

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<v Speaker 2>So the infrastructure has been criminally underfunded since forever. During

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<v Speaker 2>the seventies, eighties, and nineties, there were record floods all

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<v Speaker 2>of the time, and the city desperately needed to update

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<v Speaker 2>its pumping stations and shit. They developed this whole big

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<v Speaker 2>plan in the federal government was supposed to pay for

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<v Speaker 2>about seventy five percent of the improvements, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>kind of and the infrastructure was underfunded. And then Hurricane

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<v Speaker 2>Katrina hit in two thousand and five. At the time

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<v Speaker 2>that that hit, the Sewerage and Water Board of New

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<v Speaker 2>Orleans had twelve hundred employees and seven hundred vehicles, but

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred of those vehicles were destroyed by the storm.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty much immediately. A skeleton crew of three hundred employees

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<v Speaker 2>stayed for the storm, staffing various pumping stations and shit.

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<v Speaker 2>And then while they were doing that, the crisis of

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<v Speaker 2>a lifetime hit. The levees broke. Eighty percent of the

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<v Speaker 2>city was suddenly underwater, and as we talked about in

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<v Speaker 2>a common Ground episode, you saw some white folks from

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<v Speaker 2>richer neighborhoods forming militias and going through the streets and

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<v Speaker 2>killing black people, while black people, with the help of

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<v Speaker 2>some white people, wound up in armed standoffs to save

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<v Speaker 2>people's lives. People came out of the woodwork to help

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<v Speaker 2>one another. The national media, though, speaking of this elite

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<v Speaker 2>panic stuff, they panicked and they talked about like rape

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<v Speaker 2>and murder, gangs in the Superdome where people were hiding

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<v Speaker 2>from the storm. This was entirely a fabrication. The New

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<v Speaker 2>York Times, the paper that lost all of its credibility

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<v Speaker 2>over and over again, but you know whatever, we still

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<v Speaker 2>read it. Sometimes. They said that the city was quote

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<v Speaker 2>a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, and marauding thugs.

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<v Speaker 5>Unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is completely a lie. Like the Superdome thing

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<v Speaker 2>was just like entirely a fabrication. It's just all rumors,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. Yeah, except for the white supremacist gangs defending property.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are the only people doing any of the things

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<v Speaker 2>that they were talking about. But that's not what New

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<v Speaker 2>York Times was talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>Especially in contrast to what we know about what was

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<v Speaker 3>going on, which is just the most horrific tragic. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>loss of life, loss of property, people panicked, scared.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, absolutely, And then the looting overall was organized

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<v Speaker 2>groups getting together to get things that people couldn't get,

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's always that the idea, is it looting or

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<v Speaker 3>were people desperate to survive?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Come on, and frankly, I would be in a

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<v Speaker 2>bad position to be mad at someone who was also

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<v Speaker 2>like and while I'm mad at I'm getting a TV

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<v Speaker 2>because I've been for my entire fucking life. But whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's not what we actually.

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<v Speaker 3>Saw by and large there, right.

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<v Speaker 2>But the Waterboard they had three hundred people, and they

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<v Speaker 2>were trying to do the work that took twelve hundred

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<v Speaker 2>people when the city wasn't in crisis. Yeah, and I

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<v Speaker 2>spent an awful lot of time this week reading their

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<v Speaker 2>reports about the whole thing, and I'm going to read

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<v Speaker 2>to you a bit about it. First of all, when

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<v Speaker 2>Katrina hit, this made eighty percent of the Waterboard homeless.

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<v Speaker 2>Their homes were destroyed by the storms. Yeah, they had

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<v Speaker 2>three hundredployees at first, while about fifty others returned within

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<v Speaker 2>a few days. By the end of the sort of crisis,

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<v Speaker 2>only about five hundred out of twelve hundred employees returned.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're working with like skeleton crew.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>They set up a home base in the Algiers Wastewater

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<v Speaker 2>Treatment Center, which is right across the river from the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of New Orleans. It's actually the same neighborhood that

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<v Speaker 2>Common Ground was set up in, because this is this

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<v Speaker 2>was the neighborhood that wasn't underwater. The wastewater treatment center

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<v Speaker 2>there was the only functioning station in the city, and

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<v Speaker 2>it provided most of the water for relief efforts and

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<v Speaker 2>firefighting and all of that. So they have to maintain

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<v Speaker 2>it right and keep water, which is classically the only

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<v Speaker 2>thing we need more than that is air you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean love, No, I actually need air water flow.

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<v Speaker 2>It probably has air water food. No air water love food,

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<v Speaker 2>that's probably yeah. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>And our order of needs, hierarchy of needs.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And so they provided all of the water for

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<v Speaker 2>firefighting and all that shit, and they worked NonStop throughout

0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.280
<v Speaker 2>the city. Best as I can tell, they were like

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<v Speaker 2>only sleeping when they realized it was the best way

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<v Speaker 2>to help was to like get the fuck to sleep

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<v Speaker 2>for a couple hours.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, be rested. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>They lived in these disaster relief tents that get called yurts,

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<v Speaker 2>and they set up their offices under pavilions, and they

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<v Speaker 2>had no way of knowing if they would ever be

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<v Speaker 2>paid for this work. Years later, FEMA was still fucking

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<v Speaker 2>the contractors over that they like worked with Wow. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm not actually sure whether the issue was resolved

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<v Speaker 2>or not, because what happens is the press release eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>months after Katrina is like a condemnation of FEMA, and

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<v Speaker 2>then their later reports are less confrontational. They're like implying

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<v Speaker 2>FEMA still owes the money, but kind of trying to

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<v Speaker 2>softball it a little bit, and he's like corporate speak.

0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm going to quote from the eighteenth month

0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.000
<v Speaker 2>later report because I love a good salty report. And

0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:56.000
<v Speaker 2>so this is a government agency being like, you know,

0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:00.360
<v Speaker 2>FEMA's not doing their fucking job. Quote, FEMA isn't posing

0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.120
<v Speaker 2>a national flood Insurance charge on all work perform totally

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.880
<v Speaker 2>to date twenty million dollars. This situation leaves the Sewerage

0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.280
<v Speaker 2>and water Board short of funds to pay contractors for

0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.400
<v Speaker 2>work already performed. Later in the report, they say quote

0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 2>FEMA's lack of action and bureaucratic malaise leaves the Sewerage

0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.000
<v Speaker 2>and water Board with thirty three of sixty six East

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Bank sewer pumping stations operating on temporary and unreliable pumps.

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.440
<v Speaker 2>And then the report ends, it must be realized that

0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.439
<v Speaker 2>if there is no water, no sewer, and no drainage,

0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.439
<v Speaker 2>there is no New Orleans. It must be further realized

0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 2>by all that if the present FEMA response to our

0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.960
<v Speaker 2>ongoing crisis is not immediately heightened and sustained, we will

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.880
<v Speaker 2>very soon find ourselves in a city with no potable

0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.040
<v Speaker 2>drinking water or wastewater services.

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:48.640
<v Speaker 3>Wow, that is salty.

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.800
<v Speaker 2>This is eighteen months later. Yeah, good for them.

0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:56.720
<v Speaker 3>That's absurd and unacceptable. Yeah, obviously.

0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:03.400
<v Speaker 2>And so when the flood hits, everyone is working non stop,

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 2>much like we're working NonStop to get you the best

0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.640
<v Speaker 2>deals ever on your ads.

0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 3>It's all I can think about.

0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Here they go and we're back.

0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:27.880
<v Speaker 5>Those were some ads, all right.

0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I know they sure advertised. That is one thing I

0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.240
<v Speaker 2>can say about them. Love, unless you have cooler Zon media,

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.200
<v Speaker 2>in which case the only ad you hear is me

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.400
<v Speaker 2>making the ad for a product you already have.

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.679
<v Speaker 3>Cooler Zon media.

0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Experts around the country were telling the water board that

0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.839
<v Speaker 2>it would take them months to dewater the city. They

0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 2>did it in eleven days. So basically, they did the impossible.

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 2>This is like a very like I know, I keep

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 2>saying I watch a lot of like Star Trek and

0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 2>things like that, but I do. And you know, you

0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.960
<v Speaker 2>have that scene where they're like, we gotta repair the ship.

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.200
<v Speaker 2>We're all gonna die, it's going to take us three weeks,

0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:02.839
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, okay, well we did it in three

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:08.200
<v Speaker 2>days by climbing into dangerous particle water whatever. You know.

0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 2>That's what these people did.

0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 5>They actually did it.

0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:11.959
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. A lot of employees were literally stranded in their

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.720
<v Speaker 2>various pumping and treatment stations when the storm hit, and

0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 2>they were kept working despite having no escape. Wow. To

0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.760
<v Speaker 2>quote a report from the Waterboard, quote, operators of two

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.720
<v Speaker 2>pumping stations on the Industrial Canal clung to the rafters

0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.360
<v Speaker 2>for days with no food or water until teams of

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 2>employees in the coast Guard could reach them. In a

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 2>lot of cases, the coast Guard never reached them. Basically, hay,

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 2>were on our own. Call went out to all the employees,

0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 2>and so waterboard employees, the water boarders, if you will,

0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:53.000
<v Speaker 2>went out in their personal boats to rescue their fellow workers. Yeah.

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.720
<v Speaker 2>One of the stories I'm going to quote from the

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.800
<v Speaker 2>winter two thousand and six edition of The Tulanian, which

0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 2>is the magazine from Tulane University, and as talking about

0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 2>a waterboard worker named Gerald Tilton who'd worked at the

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Waterboard for twenty four years when this happened, about repairing

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 2>a pump. At the very start of the flood, quote,

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>water came over the flood wall surrounding the station. It

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 2>filled the pits in the station, and the water kept

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.480
<v Speaker 2>rising and came within about a foot of the third

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.720
<v Speaker 2>level of the pumping station, which is raised about fifteen

0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 2>feet high. At the back of the pumping station, Tilton

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.360
<v Speaker 2>and three pump operators walked in ankle deep high water.

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Fearing that they might be electrocuted if the water rose higher.

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.280
<v Speaker 2>They dismantled the motor and blades of a big ventilation

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 2>fan to make a potential escape hatch, but seeing a

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 2>vortex of swirling water beneath the pumping station, they realized

0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>it would be impossible to escape the building.

0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 5>That's terrifying.

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're just in a literal succeed or die straight

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.640
<v Speaker 2>out of fucking star trek. Yeah, these are the conditions

0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 2>that they're working in. They look out and they see

0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.520
<v Speaker 2>the city as flooding, that the levees of broken in

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 2>without pumps running. They realize everything's going to be fucked,

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 2>so their work is essential. While they're there, they get

0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 2>the call saying that they're on their own, that Coastguard

0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.600
<v Speaker 2>was not coming, that National Guard was not coming. So

0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 2>they quote swam through floodwater to the generator building, not

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.560
<v Speaker 2>swim out to go get somewhere safe. They quote swam

0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.320
<v Speaker 2>through the floodwater to the generator building next to pumping

0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.160
<v Speaker 2>station nineteen, hoping to start the generator necessary for the

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.440
<v Speaker 2>pumps to work two feet down in the dirty, foul

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>smelling water where valves essential to the pumping operation that

0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.040
<v Speaker 2>had to be opened. So Tilton and another man dove in.

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.640
<v Speaker 3>They got so heroic they got what.

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they got the pump fixed, but they still had

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.240
<v Speaker 2>to wait for the levee to be repaired to get

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 2>to draining the city. But they like did their piece

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 2>of it, you know. Yeh, fixing the levee isn't enough.

0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 2>You also have to fix the pumps. Yeah, But then

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.680
<v Speaker 2>New Orleans wasn't completely on their own obviously, as we've

0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 2>talked about with other you know, in terms of the

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.680
<v Speaker 2>people of New Orleans, all these relief organizations and like

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Common Ground and you know, and also formal organizations are

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:08.360
<v Speaker 2>showing up to try and help, and some are helping

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.680
<v Speaker 2>someone getting in the way. But in terms of fixing

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.960
<v Speaker 2>the water, you need specialists. Right. Three other cities helped

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.960
<v Speaker 2>out the city of Lafayette, Louisiana, about two hours away,

0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.600
<v Speaker 2>since some cruise since their facilities were still working, they

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:30.639
<v Speaker 2>ran the bacteriological samples in its lab. Wow. Okay, Little Rock, Arkansas,

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.640
<v Speaker 2>the town that no one ever thinks of unless they're

0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.480
<v Speaker 2>thinking about. I think Bill clinks from there.

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:36.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.159
<v Speaker 2>I went to a pretty good puncture there once. Really Okay, Yeah,

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of jealous because everyone's rent was like

0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.320
<v Speaker 2>two hundred dollars for a house, because it's like this,

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:46.879
<v Speaker 2>this is a while ago. But also it was a

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 2>real cheap place to live.

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 5>I bet it's still cheap. Yeah, maybe not that cheap.

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's probably up to six hundred dollars for I

0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 2>don't know whatever. Maybe it's awful and gentrifying. Who knows,

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't. But Little Rock, Arkansas is about seven hours away,

0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.400
<v Speaker 2>and they sent some staff and equipment and trucks. Both

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 2>of those cities are fanked. In every post Katrina report,

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 2>the water board is put out, or at least the

0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.879
<v Speaker 2>three to four that I read. But one city above

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.280
<v Speaker 2>all earned the love of New Orleans and their water board,

0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.119
<v Speaker 2>the city of Portland, Oregon. And now you ever heard

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:19.000
<v Speaker 2>of Portland, Oregon?

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 1>I have.

0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.080
<v Speaker 5>I actually heard about it at the end of the

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 5>last episode that we did on this topic.

0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.879
<v Speaker 2>Oh right, Well, most people know about portlanduse of Portland, Maine,

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 2>or they all know about Portland, Arkansas, Portland, Colorado, Portland, Connecticut, Portland, Georgia, Portland, Indiana, Portland, Kansas, Portland, Kentucky, Portland, Michigan,

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:45.480
<v Speaker 2>New Portland, Maine, Portland, Missouri, Portland, New York, Portland, North Dakota, Portland, Ohio, Portland, Pennsylvania, Portland, Tennessee,

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 2>or Portland, Texas. But it turns out there's a city

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>in Oregon named Portland too.

0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 5>Jesus Christ, that's wild.

0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.280
<v Speaker 3>I can guarantee you I didn't know about any of

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.000
<v Speaker 3>those other Portlands. So unoriginal.

0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.439
<v Speaker 2>Good Lord, Okay, but at least Portland, Oregon is a

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.359
<v Speaker 2>port What the fuck is Portland, Kansas doing.

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 3>Dreaming of ports It's not the land of ports I'll

0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:11.320
<v Speaker 3>tell you that.

0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:11.679
<v Speaker 1>No.

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 2>The first time I moved to Portland, I was like nineteen,

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 2>and I like climbed up the hill in Forest Park

0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:18.600
<v Speaker 2>and I like looked out and there was like another city.

0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.520
<v Speaker 2>It's probably Tigered or some shit. I don't know, but

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 2>we were like but we left Portland, but there's another city,

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.399
<v Speaker 2>and so we decided it was land Port and it

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.199
<v Speaker 2>was the inversion of Portland. There you go. That's funny.

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.119
<v Speaker 2>And maybe Tigered is the inversion of Portland. I'm not sure.

0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Landport is a cooler name than Tigered because nobody can

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 1>pronounce Tiger correct. There's so many arguments about how that

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.040
<v Speaker 1>town is the name of that town. Pronunciation on that.

0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.520
<v Speaker 2>I haven't heard it, and I'm afraid of the other pronunciations.

0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:44.640
<v Speaker 1>They say seven different ways on the news here.

0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I believe you, yeah that.

0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I won't make you say them.

0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, thank you, Katy.

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.160
<v Speaker 2>So even before New Orleans put out a call for help,

0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.320
<v Speaker 2>the Water Bureau of Portland started putting together a plan

0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 2>to help, and the plan was that we're going to

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.760
<v Speaker 2>send thirty five engineers and other specialists to live and

0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 2>work in New Orleans and help their waterboard, plus send

0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.239
<v Speaker 2>as much equipment as they could. And as soon as

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 2>New Orleans was like yes, please, can people help, they

0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.960
<v Speaker 2>were en route and they did this illegally, as was

0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:16.040
<v Speaker 2>proven in court later.

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:18.720
<v Speaker 4>And it's funny they had to go to court later.

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, how dare you do that good thing. Yep,

0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:27.159
<v Speaker 4>that's what happened. They did it with approval from the

0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.760
<v Speaker 4>city government, but the city government was found in court

0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 4>to have broken its rules about money spending in order

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 4>to do this. And I think they knew that they

0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 4>were breaking all the rules when they went in and

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.639
<v Speaker 4>they were like, Yeah, we just got to do this.

0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.359
<v Speaker 2>We don't care, we'll figure it out later. Yeah, people

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.160
<v Speaker 2>are dying. All of the people who went seventy people

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.200
<v Speaker 2>in total, and two teams of thirty five were volunteers,

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 2>and nearly all of them were union. It seems to

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 2>have happened by basically the unions in the city being like,

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:56.919
<v Speaker 2>all right, you want to break all the rules and

0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.520
<v Speaker 2>get this done. Yeah, I'll break all the rules and

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 2>get it done. You know, they broke you union rules

0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:01.480
<v Speaker 2>and city rules both.

0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:02.440
<v Speaker 1>M hmm.

0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:03.240
<v Speaker 3>Good for them.

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Portland City Commissioner Randy Leonard said during the sendoff of

0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the first volunteers, quote, we're violating about one hundred provisions

0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 2>from each of their contracts, and we couldn't do it

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 2>without our union brothers and sisters.

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:14.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.360
<v Speaker 2>The first team included sixteen members of the American Federation

0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.920
<v Speaker 2>of State County Municipal Employees Local one to eighty nine,

0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.080
<v Speaker 2>two members of the Electrical Workers Local forty eight, two

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 2>members of Operating Engineers Local seven oh one, and three

0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 2>members of the City of Portland Professional Employees Association. I

0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:32.560
<v Speaker 2>don't have the numbers for the second team. The first

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 2>team gets all the glory. That's when the photos in,

0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, like, but but there were two teams, yep, totally,

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:43.240
<v Speaker 2>that's what's important. Yeah, the equipment was sent on October third,

0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and on October eighth, people flew there. And now this

0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.600
<v Speaker 2>is not right away like, this is the like slow

0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:54.760
<v Speaker 2>grinding gears of bureaucracy to make things happen for belief,

0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:59.120
<v Speaker 2>which still matters, right Like, it was not too little,

0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.360
<v Speaker 2>too late. It was a still in time, very useful thing.

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 2>But Katrina hid in the end of August. Red tape

0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.720
<v Speaker 2>slowed them down, but it didn't stop them. And when

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 2>they showed up, they stayed in those same tents at

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 2>the command center at the wastewater Treatment Plant Algiers and

0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.800
<v Speaker 2>they worked twelve hour shifts and a second group replaced

0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:22.159
<v Speaker 2>them on November sixth, thirty days later. They did the

0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.040
<v Speaker 2>same skilled labor that the water boarders were doing. They

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.040
<v Speaker 2>fixed things. They completed three hundred and seventy seven work

0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:30.280
<v Speaker 2>orders in the sixty days they were there. They rebuilt

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.119
<v Speaker 2>pumps and motors and fixing vehicles, and they also what

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.920
<v Speaker 2>all of the formal relief groups had to do. They

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.359
<v Speaker 2>spent a lot of their time going around and documenting

0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:43.760
<v Speaker 2>things so that FEMA would ostensibly pay for repairs. And

0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 2>then the thing about having, you know, sent a whole

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.119
<v Speaker 2>bunch of its workers to New Orleans is that it

0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:50.679
<v Speaker 2>wasn't just the people who went to New Orleans who

0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:52.720
<v Speaker 2>had to work hard as a result, because everyone who

0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.560
<v Speaker 2>stayed had to do that much more work. Michael str

0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.320
<v Speaker 2>the now former director of the Water Bureau, told Portland

0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:02.920
<v Speaker 2>dot gov, which is the official blog of the city,

0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.080
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if all the other Portlands are mad about that.

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.840
<v Speaker 3>They might be, They really might be.

0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.479
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they all share it. Maybe there's like a like

0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Portland Arkansas has like, you know, a little page on there.

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:15.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it does.

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 5>It's like Portland dot go click your.

0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:24.800
<v Speaker 2>State, Yeah, totally, which Portland. Michael Sturr said, it was

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:27.040
<v Speaker 2>more than just the people who went down to New Orleans.

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:28.760
<v Speaker 2>In some ways, that was almost the easy part. Then

0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.000
<v Speaker 2>there were the people back here. We were short the

0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:33.320
<v Speaker 2>number of crews usually had to do our daily business,

0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:35.280
<v Speaker 2>and everyone picked like basically, it's like everyone had to

0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.440
<v Speaker 2>pick up the load. Yeah, and I think that that

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:43.280
<v Speaker 2>part matters too. In the end, Moltnomah County Circuit Court

0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:47.959
<v Speaker 2>Judge Stephen Bouchong ruled that the Portland taxpayers shouldn't have

0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 2>had to pay the two million it cost, and it

0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:54.600
<v Speaker 2>should have come from general funds instead. FEMA eventually reimburses

0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 2>the city for one point eight million of this, Butuchong

0:23:57.359 --> 0:23:59.600
<v Speaker 2>has since been elected to the Oregon Supreme Court, where

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 2>he currently serves, and I can find nothing about his politics.

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:03.760
<v Speaker 2>He carefully is not saying that.

0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:07.320
<v Speaker 3>Two million dollars. I know that that's a lot of money,

0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:12.320
<v Speaker 3>but for a city, and yeah, the size of this catastrophe,

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.040
<v Speaker 3>that's like nothing.

0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm looking at the Portland City budget annual right now. Yeah,

0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 2>eight point two billion dollars.

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Is and and how much of that goes to the cops?

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:27.919
<v Speaker 3>I know, right, yeah, two million, that's like pennies for

0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:28.600
<v Speaker 3>each citizen.

0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.040
<v Speaker 2>But okay, yeah, and in the end, I think that

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:33.760
<v Speaker 2>it was two hundred thousand dollars that wasn't reimbursed by

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:34.399
<v Speaker 2>FEMA in the end.

0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:35.720
<v Speaker 3>That's okay whatever.

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, have you seen that like TikToker, I don't know

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:42.120
<v Speaker 2>what thing was originally on, where the guy is like, oh,

0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:44.720
<v Speaker 2>who wants their tax money to pay for these Tongu

0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:47.200
<v Speaker 2>group people? I do. That's what I want.

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I do. That's literally what I would like it

0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 3>it's spent on. I would like it spent on things

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.879
<v Speaker 3>like this, please, that's what it should be spent for.

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.399
<v Speaker 3>Also just not for not them, but just the cost

0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:03.320
<v Speaker 3>of like having some sort of hearing trial or taking

0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:07.360
<v Speaker 3>people out of work for the day. But you just

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:11.080
<v Speaker 3>wasting our time and our money. Yeah, fucks anyway.

0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm willing to bet if you ask, if you

0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:15.960
<v Speaker 2>just like did a little quick direct pull of the

0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.639
<v Speaker 2>people living in Portland. Are you proud of your city

0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:21.119
<v Speaker 2>or are you mad that four dollars out of your

0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:25.280
<v Speaker 2>paycheck went to this? Like, Yeah, the easiest four dollars

0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I've ever spent in my life is to feel good

0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:28.159
<v Speaker 2>about the city I live in.

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:29.600
<v Speaker 5>Best money I've ever spent.

0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:30.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, for sure.

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:33.560
<v Speaker 2>There's not a lot of positive Portland stories in the news,

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:42.119
<v Speaker 2>my guy, Yeah wild Okay, Katrina was in essence a

0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:45.359
<v Speaker 2>wake up call for disaster relief for groups big and small,

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:49.240
<v Speaker 2>bureaucratic and day. But what really is a wake up

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:55.240
<v Speaker 2>call is deals. Oh thank god, Yeah, they just get

0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 2>me out of bed in the morning. These deals, I know,

0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:01.440
<v Speaker 2>I know, what do you do? You could have been

0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:03.720
<v Speaker 2>buying long swords.

0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:05.960
<v Speaker 3>I could have been maybe I still have time.

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a good arming sword, which is distinct from a

0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>long sword by certain people's pedantic views. You know, if

0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:13.679
<v Speaker 2>you want to spend a lot of your time on

0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:16.720
<v Speaker 2>YouTube watching people talking about medieval weaponry, that's up to you.

0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:18.600
<v Speaker 2>But you don't have to do it, because we've done

0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 2>all of that work for you, and that's why we

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:23.440
<v Speaker 2>advertise only the finest medieval weapons. If what we advertise

0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:26.159
<v Speaker 2>doesn't sound like a medieval weapon, it's actually code for

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:30.640
<v Speaker 2>a medieval weapon. So whatever you buy from these following sponsors,

0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:34.040
<v Speaker 2>including sports betting, it'll somehow come to you in sword form.

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't promise. I'm lying. Here's ads and we're back.

0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:49.320
<v Speaker 3>Well that was fun, but I am dying to hear

0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:50.640
<v Speaker 3>how this results.

0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:53.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I mean it did more or less. Okay,

0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:55.719
<v Speaker 2>so actually some really amazing things come out of it.

0:26:56.640 --> 0:26:59.040
<v Speaker 2>With Katrina, it was a wake up call for disaster

0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:01.199
<v Speaker 2>relief right and small. That's what I already read in

0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 2>my script, and here I am reading it again and

0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:06.840
<v Speaker 2>figure out what I was trying to say, and to

0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:09.960
<v Speaker 2>common Ground in New Orleans was a major inspiration for

0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:12.800
<v Speaker 2>matter mutual aid disaster relief. The group I was talking

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:16.720
<v Speaker 2>about last time, as for the various water boards. Because

0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:19.400
<v Speaker 2>of Katrina as well as nine to eleven and some flooding.

0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and seven, they formed worn Water Slash

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Wastewater Agency Response Network. Their goal basically, they're doing the

0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:31.560
<v Speaker 2>same thing. They're creating these national networks. To quote their

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 2>press release from two thousand and seven, their goal is

0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:37.520
<v Speaker 2>to quote encourage local utilities in every state to establish

0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:41.400
<v Speaker 2>intrastate mutual aid and assistance agreements between both drinking water

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:46.280
<v Speaker 2>and wastewater utilities. It basically exists to streamline the red

0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:49.360
<v Speaker 2>tape that was slowing everything down. They are like looking

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:52.160
<v Speaker 2>at the failures of bureaucratic stuff and trying to figure

0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 2>out how to get around it. And it allows them

0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:59.280
<v Speaker 2>all to quote sign a single agreement covering issues such

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:04.400
<v Speaker 2>as indemification, workers' compensation and reimbursement, and it quote allows

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:08.160
<v Speaker 2>for utilities to share equipment, personnel, and other resources required

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:12.679
<v Speaker 2>to respond effectively to any crisis. WARN helps utilities reduce

0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:14.879
<v Speaker 2>the typical response gap end quote.

0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 3>That's rad. I know, I should talk to my My

0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:23.320
<v Speaker 3>brother works for the water department. Yeah, in his city,

0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 3>his town, not saying where.

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I should talk to him about Portland, Colorado, Portland,

0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:32.600
<v Speaker 2>color We all live in Portland.

0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:35.920
<v Speaker 3>We all live in Portland somewhere. Yeah, one way or another,

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:36.960
<v Speaker 3>we all live in Portland.

0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, it's this is the first

0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:43.239
<v Speaker 2>I had heard about WARN, because it's like, there's this

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.880
<v Speaker 2>thing that happens where like I do this, at least

0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if other people do it. Where I

0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:50.160
<v Speaker 2>see some of the DIY projects and then I see

0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 2>some of like the failures of the large scale projects,

0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:57.200
<v Speaker 2>but I don't necessarily always see the wastewater worker who

0:28:57.280 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 2>is hanging on by rafters and fixing pumps, you know,

0:29:00.920 --> 0:29:05.560
<v Speaker 2>like the specialized person doing their professional job that is

0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:09.800
<v Speaker 2>a working class job that exists to serve the people.

0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:13.560
<v Speaker 3>Like well, and the truth is, I mean, and I

0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:16.080
<v Speaker 3>mentioned my brother, but I don't even think about it

0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 3>that closely. But yeah, my brother's right now, going through

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:21.800
<v Speaker 3>a period, there's always somebody on call and stuff does

0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:27.400
<v Speaker 3>go very bad, and training is significant because they're handling

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:31.720
<v Speaker 3>stuff that could kill us if wild water isn't treated properly,

0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.400
<v Speaker 3>or if something goes wrong a busted pipe. There're as

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:37.280
<v Speaker 3>much as storms in There was a huge pothole and

0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:40.240
<v Speaker 3>it busted up some pipes, and you know, I mean,

0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:43.560
<v Speaker 3>they're always on call trying. It's a different kind of

0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:48.000
<v Speaker 3>emergency response than I've ever thought about, just our water department.

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we don't always notice the work that people are doing,

0:29:51.840 --> 0:29:54.720
<v Speaker 2>and in some strange ways, because we don't see what

0:29:54.800 --> 0:29:58.960
<v Speaker 2>they do, we don't notice climate change getting worse, at

0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 2>least not as obviously as we would otherwise, because there's

0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:04.520
<v Speaker 2>all of these people getting this stuff done, making our

0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:08.480
<v Speaker 2>infrastructure more resilient. I mean, obviously our resilient. Our infrastructure

0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 2>is also falling apart. Right, It's like both things are

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.160
<v Speaker 2>happening at once. It's that tone. It's the thing where

0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:16.479
<v Speaker 2>things are always getting better and worse, and it's not

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:19.520
<v Speaker 2>just an illusion where like it's all samey, samey, but

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.920
<v Speaker 2>there are things that are people are trying to fix

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:27.360
<v Speaker 2>and make more resilient. Yeah, and ooh, this chapter is

0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:30.720
<v Speaker 2>called conclusion. I never I usually subheadings, but I usually don't.

0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Usually they're not as like conclusion. This one is my conclusion.

0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:40.520
<v Speaker 2>In that voice up at top, I quoted a paper

0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:44.160
<v Speaker 2>by Stanford's psychologist Jamil Zaki, and then they conclude that

0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:49.120
<v Speaker 2>paper with for all the suffering they produce. Social behavior

0:30:49.200 --> 0:30:52.280
<v Speaker 2>during and after disasters provides a counterpoint to the prevailing

0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:56.720
<v Speaker 2>cynicism of our culture. Catastrophe compassion presents people with a

0:30:56.800 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 2>view of ourselves that might surprise us, driven by otherishness

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:05.640
<v Speaker 2>rather than by selfishness during crucially important moments. One way

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:08.880
<v Speaker 2>to honor and extend this positive behavior is to not

0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:12.320
<v Speaker 2>be surprised by it any longer, but instead to realize

0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:16.600
<v Speaker 2>that pro sociality is common, and thus to expect and

0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:22.360
<v Speaker 2>demand it from others and from ourselves. Okay, I've been

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:25.920
<v Speaker 2>watching the Internet terror part this like homesteader influencer couple recently,

0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:27.840
<v Speaker 2>and they're really cringing, annoying, and I like don't mind

0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:30.640
<v Speaker 2>the people tearing them apart because I think that they're posers. There.

0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 2>There's like white couple that uses hand tools and is like,

0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:36.760
<v Speaker 2>oh the rusty saw. Yeah, yeah, totally mm hm. And

0:31:36.800 --> 0:31:39.280
<v Speaker 2>it's like, you know, there's photos where a woman with

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.040
<v Speaker 2>brushed but not braided hair and clean clothes is like

0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:45.760
<v Speaker 2>moving manure around. And it's like anyone who's working outside

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:47.840
<v Speaker 2>with long hair for long enough is braiding their fucking

0:31:47.880 --> 0:31:50.520
<v Speaker 2>hair or like putting it up in some way.

0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 5>Getting it out of their face in some capacity.

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>And the guy's like hand sawing a log between sawhorses,

0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:58.440
<v Speaker 2>which means it'll pinch the blade, and it sure doesn't

0:31:58.440 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 2>seem like he knows what he's doing, but people have

0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:01.400
<v Speaker 2>accused him of that. In the common this is like

0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 2>what I spend my time doing is watching people make funs.

0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:05.360
<v Speaker 3>I saw a little bit of it, maybe because you are.

0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:07.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if Yeah, it doesn't matter. I saw

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:08.120
<v Speaker 3>it briefly.

0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I don't know. I don't know about these

0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>two people one way or the other. They seem like

0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:16.680
<v Speaker 2>annoying and probably right wing based on their like, oh

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:20.480
<v Speaker 2>we The real thing to do is everyone has a homestead.

0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:24.280
<v Speaker 2>They are selling a lie, whether they know it or not.

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Homesteading the way it's sold is a lie. It is

0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:32.080
<v Speaker 2>a foundational lie in American culture. But forever and always

0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 2>the supposedly rugged frontiersman has a few exceptions, been supported

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:39.480
<v Speaker 2>by massive infrastructure that relies on those frontiersmen conquering territories

0:32:39.520 --> 0:32:42.840
<v Speaker 2>from indigenous peoples. It is nearly impossible to grow all

0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>your own food as like a nuclear family. Anthropologically, whenever

0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:50.600
<v Speaker 2>humans live in small self sustaining groups, they are bigger

0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:53.840
<v Speaker 2>than husband, wife and children. There are a lot of

0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.880
<v Speaker 2>extended families. There's like clan structures. There's all kinds of

0:32:56.880 --> 0:32:57.560
<v Speaker 2>shit happening.

0:32:57.720 --> 0:33:01.480
<v Speaker 3>Community, yeah, a commune sorts perhaps.

0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And they are generally trading with one another or

0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 2>building infrastructure together. I am an introvert and as hermit

0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:10.520
<v Speaker 2>as it gets, I live me and my dog alone

0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:12.560
<v Speaker 2>in the mountains, but I am not lying to myself.

0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:15.200
<v Speaker 2>We rely on each other, and we rely on society.

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:19.440
<v Speaker 2>The sort of father of mutual aid as an academic

0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:22.640
<v Speaker 2>topic of study is the regular friend of the pod

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:26.240
<v Speaker 2>of the anarchist and evolutionary biologist Peter Kropotkin. He was

0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:28.840
<v Speaker 2>like a Russian prince who was like, I don't think

0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:31.080
<v Speaker 2>this prince thing is for me. I think actually we

0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 2>should have a horizontal society of groups that help each other.

0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 2>And I'm an anthropologist and I'm basing all of this

0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 2>by watching all of these different groups. And his nineteen

0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:44.280
<v Speaker 2>oh two book mutual Aid, A Factor and Evolution. It's

0:33:44.280 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>a pretty literal title. It presents the idea that counter

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:50.040
<v Speaker 2>to what social Darwinists at the time we're saying, mutual

0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:55.560
<v Speaker 2>aid is a factor in evolution. H He follows mutual

0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:59.040
<v Speaker 2>aid throughout the animal kingdom and then anthropologically through a

0:33:59.080 --> 0:34:02.200
<v Speaker 2>ton of different society and it's one of the foundational

0:34:02.240 --> 0:34:05.880
<v Speaker 2>texts of the modern study of cooperation. It's like understanding

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 2>how different species can have mutually beneficial relationships, right the

0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:11.680
<v Speaker 2>like birds that clean the teeth or the alligators or whatever.

0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:11.960
<v Speaker 1>The fuck.

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:14.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's been a while since read the

0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:18.200
<v Speaker 2>science books that talk about this shit. And it's not

0:34:18.280 --> 0:34:21.400
<v Speaker 2>that competition doesn't happen or doesn't matter, but it's that

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:24.160
<v Speaker 2>cooperation also matters. Like when you were talking about at

0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:26.560
<v Speaker 2>the very top of all of this, about how, like

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.640
<v Speaker 2>many other things, we have this in it human desire

0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 2>to help each other, we also have in a human

0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:32.839
<v Speaker 2>desire to hurt each other and.

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:38.880
<v Speaker 3>Shit, right, absolutely, but like we can pick you know, yeah,

0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 3>that's part of evolving and culture and growth is understanding

0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:47.920
<v Speaker 3>where some of our instincts come from. That's a benefit

0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:49.680
<v Speaker 3>of where we live at this point in time. But

0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:53.279
<v Speaker 3>in general, I mean, we're hardwired to survive, but we're

0:34:53.280 --> 0:34:56.759
<v Speaker 3>also hardwired for community. And at the end of the day,

0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:01.280
<v Speaker 3>we've never not relied on each other, right to some degree,

0:35:01.320 --> 0:35:04.080
<v Speaker 3>depending on how big your community is, but that is

0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:07.640
<v Speaker 3>how we have arrived where we are today. Yeah, the

0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:09.320
<v Speaker 3>evolution of society and culture.

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, it's it's interesting because it's like it it

0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.319
<v Speaker 2>turns out the argument is that it's not survival of

0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:20.120
<v Speaker 2>the fittest at each other's throats. Sometimes it's survival of

0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:23.840
<v Speaker 2>the fittest communities, and the fittest communities are communities that

0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:27.280
<v Speaker 2>are cooperative and so like, it's kind of interesting. Actually,

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:28.520
<v Speaker 2>one of the first times I read about all this

0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:30.560
<v Speaker 2>stuff was I like, I'll probably talked about this on

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:32.000
<v Speaker 2>the show before, but it's like lives in my head

0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot, you know. I found this article talking about

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:36.720
<v Speaker 2>like scientists. It was like a science journal talking about

0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:40.919
<v Speaker 2>like why are there gay animals? Right? And I'm reading

0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 2>this random science article and they're like evolutionary biologist Peter

0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Krapacken writing about this thing, and I'm like, oh, my god,

0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:50.600
<v Speaker 2>my guy, he's in the science and uh that like

0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:53.799
<v Speaker 2>the gay animals and like the animal kingdom, I'm talking

0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:56.080
<v Speaker 2>about humans here. I mean humans are animals too, but

0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:59.440
<v Speaker 2>like the gay animals will like the gay couple birds

0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 2>will adopt to the fucking birds that are orphans and

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 2>shit or like, yeah, animals that have lost their mate

0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:08.440
<v Speaker 2>and aren't find you know, like they still find like

0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:10.920
<v Speaker 2>love and companionship with each other. Yeah, and so like

0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:14.879
<v Speaker 2>even though they can't reproduce sexually, some of them can,

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:18.680
<v Speaker 2>some can't, whatever, mostly they can't, they are still providing

0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:23.560
<v Speaker 2>that species to be more survivable. So it is literally

0:36:23.880 --> 0:36:27.160
<v Speaker 2>part of evolution that some of us are gay.

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:31.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's beautiful too. All of this is beautiful.

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks, and so the end of that book, Peter

0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:39.759
<v Speaker 2>Kapokin writes, in the practice of mutual aid, which we

0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:43.279
<v Speaker 2>can retrace to the earliest beginnings of evolution, we thus

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:47.239
<v Speaker 2>find the positive and undoubted origin of our ethical conceptions,

0:36:47.800 --> 0:36:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and we can affirm that in the ethical progress of man,

0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:55.719
<v Speaker 2>mutual support, not mutual struggle, has the leading part in

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:59.320
<v Speaker 2>its wide extension. Even at the present time. We also

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:03.000
<v Speaker 2>see the guarantee of a still loftier evolution of the

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:03.680
<v Speaker 2>human race.

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:06.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, love that.

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So taking care of ourselves in each other, it's

0:37:10.520 --> 0:37:13.319
<v Speaker 2>what we evolve to do. We're good at it, we

0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:14.920
<v Speaker 2>should do it, and.

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:17.399
<v Speaker 3>That's how you grow too. I mean, there's so many

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:21.279
<v Speaker 3>thoughts swimming around in my brain about this tangential but like, oh,

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:23.160
<v Speaker 3>I might not have so much in common with that

0:37:23.239 --> 0:37:27.000
<v Speaker 3>person up the street, but we're going to come together

0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:30.520
<v Speaker 3>in this situation and learn and be on the same team.

0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:36.400
<v Speaker 3>And there's a humanizing element from that, And yeah, I think, yeah.

0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:39.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's hard because, right, some people, some

0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:44.200
<v Speaker 2>of your neighbors might be like fucking Nazis, Yeah, right, exactly,

0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:46.759
<v Speaker 2>And there might be people who are trying to kill you.

0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:50.720
<v Speaker 2>But by and large, there's people I disagree with about

0:37:50.840 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 2>pretty major stuff that I do not want to see

0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:56.040
<v Speaker 2>starved to death, that do not want to see me

0:37:56.120 --> 0:38:01.320
<v Speaker 2>starve to death, right, like right, Yeah, And even the Nazis,

0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I want them to just stop being Nazis, you know,

0:38:03.719 --> 0:38:04.200
<v Speaker 2>I want them.

0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:05.000
<v Speaker 5>To stop being Nazi.

0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:08.319
<v Speaker 3>I'm not wishing physical harm on them unless it's I

0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:11.680
<v Speaker 3>guess very well deserved here, But I'm not gonna cry

0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:15.840
<v Speaker 3>myself to sleep. But I'm not out here wishing the

0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:20.000
<v Speaker 3>worst for anybody or a traumatic experience. I'm gonna try

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:23.440
<v Speaker 3>to help. There was this conversation and I remember in

0:38:23.520 --> 0:38:27.600
<v Speaker 3>college this debate about altruism. You know what, I don't

0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:30.520
<v Speaker 3>need to go down that path, Okay, but well it

0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:34.239
<v Speaker 3>just does altruism exist? If like, if you're is there

0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:37.799
<v Speaker 3>any can you is there an altruistic act? And I

0:38:37.920 --> 0:38:39.840
<v Speaker 3>kind of took up and I'm not sure if I

0:38:40.040 --> 0:38:43.640
<v Speaker 3>stand by this, but that there isn't. But it doesn't matter.

0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:45.440
<v Speaker 3>You can use that word because at the end of

0:38:45.480 --> 0:38:48.840
<v Speaker 3>the day, for example, your friend hopping in that plane

0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:53.440
<v Speaker 3>that you referenced a very scary choice. A lot of people,

0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:58.160
<v Speaker 3>you probably wouldn't fault somebody for not wanting to do it. However,

0:38:59.080 --> 0:39:02.880
<v Speaker 3>I bet your friend, and it meant so much like

0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:05.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how I would live with myself if

0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:08.040
<v Speaker 3>I had the opportunity to help somebody and I didn't, right,

0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:11.080
<v Speaker 3>And so maybe there's something selfish in that, But at

0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:13.520
<v Speaker 3>the end of the day, I don't think it's selfish.

0:39:13.560 --> 0:39:16.600
<v Speaker 3>It's just recognizing that what I want is the best

0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:17.120
<v Speaker 3>for people.

0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:17.760
<v Speaker 5>Anyway.

0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:19.680
<v Speaker 3>This is a tangent, but I have been it's been

0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:20.759
<v Speaker 3>floating in my head a bit.

0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:23.720
<v Speaker 2>This is such an important tangent because we get presented

0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>all the time, right, does altruism exist? Right? You can

0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:30.920
<v Speaker 2>find the selfish reason. You know, I want to be

0:39:31.280 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 2>the kind of person who does not let fear prevent

0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:36.200
<v Speaker 2>me from doing what I believe is right. So therefore,

0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:37.840
<v Speaker 2>if I get in that plane, which I didn't, but

0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:40.840
<v Speaker 2>like you know, I wasn't an option I presented to myself.

0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:42.919
<v Speaker 2>It was somewhere else in the country. I don't remember

0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 2>where I was. But like, if I had gotten into

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:48.120
<v Speaker 2>that plane, I would feel good about myself later. I mean,

0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:49.400
<v Speaker 2>at a time i'd be like, what the fuck am

0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.440
<v Speaker 2>I doing? What's wrong with like terrified? But yeah, yeah,

0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:54.479
<v Speaker 2>and so I would be proud, So I would get

0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:57.480
<v Speaker 2>something out of it. Right. But the argument that we

0:39:57.520 --> 0:39:59.520
<v Speaker 2>get presented with all the time by society and the

0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Cold War, this awful is the community versus the individual.

0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 2>And the thing that I love about mutual aida factor

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:11.480
<v Speaker 2>in evolution is he's not saying, oh, being good is good,

0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:15.320
<v Speaker 2>and anyone who doesn't sucks, and you know we should

0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:19.120
<v Speaker 2>suffer for each other. Instead, he's saying, what is good

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:22.680
<v Speaker 2>for the individual is to be good for the community. Yes, yes,

0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:27.759
<v Speaker 2>so we need to find where it's not two polar opposites,

0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:31.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, And I just like deeply believe that, and

0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:33.960
<v Speaker 2>like basically I do too. Yeah, I want to be

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:36.160
<v Speaker 2>part of a healthy community where people take care of me,

0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:38.919
<v Speaker 2>and the cost of entry is to be a person

0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:41.600
<v Speaker 2>who takes care of people. And then I feel good anyway,

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.160
<v Speaker 2>because like when I have like extra and I give

0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:46.640
<v Speaker 2>it to someone, I am like, I probably got more

0:40:46.680 --> 0:40:48.200
<v Speaker 2>out of that than they did. I'm like, I am

0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:50.680
<v Speaker 2>the best person. I just came twenty bucks to that guy.

0:40:50.719 --> 0:40:52.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm like a fucking here. They should make us. I'm

0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:53.280
<v Speaker 2>a saint.

0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:55.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like but a statue up of me.

0:40:56.200 --> 0:40:57.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like I'm floating all day.

0:40:58.239 --> 0:41:01.480
<v Speaker 3>And the thing is, as if you follow the trajectory

0:41:01.480 --> 0:41:05.520
<v Speaker 3>of this entire conversation of these two episodes, I extend

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.839
<v Speaker 3>that to times of non crisis as well. Yeah, that's

0:41:08.880 --> 0:41:13.840
<v Speaker 3>my whole philosophy about society and communities. And you know,

0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 3>part of the thing that I love about being in

0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:18.840
<v Speaker 3>a smaller community at the moment is that there's more effect.

0:41:19.120 --> 0:41:22.000
<v Speaker 3>My individual actions have a bit more of an effect

0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:24.719
<v Speaker 3>in here. But like I say this all the time

0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:29.239
<v Speaker 3>when people talk about, you know, housing crisis or this

0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:31.880
<v Speaker 3>that or the other, like different things. I'm like, well,

0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:35.480
<v Speaker 3>whether you like it or not, this is all.

0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:36.080
<v Speaker 5>Of our issue.

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally our.

0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:39.560
<v Speaker 3>That's a selfish that's coming at it from a more

0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:44.800
<v Speaker 3>selfish perspective, But it's like, we need to collectively approach

0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:49.760
<v Speaker 3>this problem because if not, the downsides that are all

0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:52.040
<v Speaker 3>of us. We just because you're like, that's not me,

0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:56.240
<v Speaker 3>doesn't mean that that's not you know, in cert different

0:41:56.760 --> 0:41:59.960
<v Speaker 3>hazards or things that can happen. Again the selfish way

0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:04.600
<v Speaker 3>looking at it, but I believe fundamentally that healthy community,

0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:07.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, where we don't ignore the problems, that the

0:42:07.760 --> 0:42:10.600
<v Speaker 3>crises that people are going through, is better for all

0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:12.839
<v Speaker 3>of us at the end of the day. Yeah, and

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:15.520
<v Speaker 3>just knowing that if something then happened to me that

0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:18.719
<v Speaker 3>there are infrastructures or people places that I can't go

0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:21.480
<v Speaker 3>out yeah for help anyway.

0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:23.719
<v Speaker 2>No, And I even wonder whether the reason that we're

0:42:23.760 --> 0:42:26.759
<v Speaker 2>seeing like Elon Musk pretending like he's ever going to

0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:33.719
<v Speaker 2>go to Mars or Facebook robot man buying all of Hawaii, Zuckerberg,

0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:38.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, is like they're trying to find a way

0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 2>to nimby climate change. They're trying to be like or

0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:42.279
<v Speaker 2>they're trying to find a way to make it not

0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:45.239
<v Speaker 2>their problem, right, because it is everyone's problem, and so

0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.480
<v Speaker 2>they're like, well, how can I be safe in this?

0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:49.800
<v Speaker 2>And then the answer is like you kind of can't.

0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:53.680
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely no, They're going to build their bunkers, and they're

0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:59.000
<v Speaker 3>different like things like advocate against policies because they're going

0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:01.560
<v Speaker 3>to continue making as much money as possible, but shure

0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:04.680
<v Speaker 3>up their own bunkers and their own backup plans.

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:06.799
<v Speaker 5>Yep, but that's going to only take you so far.

0:43:06.880 --> 0:43:11.279
<v Speaker 2>But I love the like there was some report. I've

0:43:11.280 --> 0:43:13.400
<v Speaker 2>only read the pop science version of this, but the

0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:15.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, I read an article a long time ago

0:43:15.480 --> 0:43:18.960
<v Speaker 2>that was talking about how when the super rich we're

0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:21.319
<v Speaker 2>talking about all their bunkers. One of the meetings that

0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:24.080
<v Speaker 2>they had at the convention was how the fuck are

0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:26.040
<v Speaker 2>we going to get our security guards to keeping on

0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:28.960
<v Speaker 2>our side when there's like no money in the world's over, Like,

0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.520
<v Speaker 2>how do we make them still are subordinates? You know what?

0:43:31.600 --> 0:43:32.920
<v Speaker 3>A good question and it seems so.

0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Funny because the obvious answer is to make them your equals,

0:43:35.560 --> 0:43:38.680
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, weird little bunker cult, you know, but

0:43:38.719 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, fuck, what are we gonna I mean,

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:43.560
<v Speaker 2>the answers, they're probably going to kidnap those people's children

0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:45.879
<v Speaker 2>and shit, you know, I don't know because yeah, there's

0:43:45.920 --> 0:43:47.920
<v Speaker 2>that other quote that I don't have source. That's like

0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:51.680
<v Speaker 2>from like the nineteen hundreds or eighteen whatever, nineteenth century.

0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:53.440
<v Speaker 2>That's like, oh, I can just hire one half of

0:43:53.440 --> 0:43:55.600
<v Speaker 2>the working class to kill the other half. You know.

0:43:56.280 --> 0:44:00.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, anyway, probably is where they bring I'm focusing on that.

0:44:00.880 --> 0:44:02.719
<v Speaker 5>We've had a very hopeful conversation.

0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think, don't get hired just to kill the

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:07.440
<v Speaker 2>working class. That is the takeaway.

0:44:07.520 --> 0:44:08.160
<v Speaker 5>That's a bad deal.

0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, don't do that, and do use your specializations to

0:44:12.560 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 2>help each other. And listen to even more news.

0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:19.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, listen to even more news and some more news.

0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:22.840
<v Speaker 3>We're available as a podcast or the YouTube show for

0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:27.160
<v Speaker 3>both shows. Some people weren't thrilled that we started putting

0:44:27.200 --> 0:44:29.840
<v Speaker 3>the video of our podcast up on YouTube.

0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:32.120
<v Speaker 5>A lot of people were, yeah, it's weird.

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:36.879
<v Speaker 3>Look, if you prefer just audio, just go listen to it.

0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:39.320
<v Speaker 3>It's still in your podcast feed. I love you very much.

0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:42.200
<v Speaker 3>But he got both options now, and that's a good thing. Yeah,

0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:44.719
<v Speaker 3>so yeah, you can watch or listen to both of

0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:49.040
<v Speaker 3>those shows. And we are in the throes of election prep,

0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:51.280
<v Speaker 3>so busy.

0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:55.040
<v Speaker 2>And if you want my take on random stuff, I

0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:57.760
<v Speaker 2>have a substack. It is Margaret Kildroyd at substack dot com.

0:44:57.800 --> 0:45:00.720
<v Speaker 2>All of the posts that are like meaningful and about

0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:04.759
<v Speaker 2>how I feel about election years and whatever. You can

0:45:05.040 --> 0:45:07.520
<v Speaker 2>find that there for free. And if you want more

0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:11.320
<v Speaker 2>of the like Margaret tells stories about hitchhiking or complains

0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:13.520
<v Speaker 2>about her day than those are for the people who

0:45:13.600 --> 0:45:17.240
<v Speaker 2>pay me. And that's Marta Kiljoyd at substock dot com.

0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:19.879
<v Speaker 2>And also you should listen to the rest of cools

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:25.720
<v Speaker 2>on media because Selfie's nodding this genuinely really good because like, honestly,

0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:29.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad that more shows got added because sometimes at

0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:30.600
<v Speaker 2>the end of the week, I've listened to all of

0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:33.560
<v Speaker 2>the cools on media that week, and I'm like, now.

0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:35.480
<v Speaker 3>What, Who's going to keep me company today?

0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:39.719
<v Speaker 2>I know, like, while I'm you know, working on the

0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:41.120
<v Speaker 2>land that I live on, I was about to say

0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:43.440
<v Speaker 2>burning cardboard, but I would never do that. I totally

0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:44.880
<v Speaker 2>don't have a barrel in my front yard where I

0:45:44.920 --> 0:45:47.960
<v Speaker 2>burn all my cardboard. I don't know about the ethics

0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:51.440
<v Speaker 2>or laws around that, so I don't do that. But

0:45:51.960 --> 0:45:53.799
<v Speaker 2>if I did, I'd be listening to coolson Media while

0:45:53.800 --> 0:45:54.160
<v Speaker 2>I did it.

0:45:54.719 --> 0:45:55.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, of course.

0:45:56.320 --> 0:46:02.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Anyway, don't burn things during fire season. Yeah, and

0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:06.000
<v Speaker 2>put a great over your barrel and don't tell your neighbors. Yep. Absolutely,

0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:07.799
<v Speaker 2>see you all next week.

0:46:13.280 --> 0:46:15.759
<v Speaker 1>Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:18.879
<v Speaker 1>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:22.319
<v Speaker 1>visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:25.759
<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

0:46:25.800 --> 0:46:26.600
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts.