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Speaker 1: All Zone media.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everybody. Margaret Kiljoy here recording on a bad microphone

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Speaker 2: because I'm on tour, but I feel like I need

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Speaker 2: to interrupt your regularly scheduled podcast to talk about something

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Speaker 2: that's happening right now as many people are awhere. Hurricane

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Speaker 2: Helene hit western North Carolina as well as southern Apalachia

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Speaker 2: and Florida very badly over well. I guess last week

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Speaker 2: if you're listening to this when it comes out and

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Speaker 2: people need your help. And one of the mutual aid

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Speaker 2: organizations that is doing an incredible amount of work that

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Speaker 2: I can personally vouch for is mutual Aid Disaster Relief.

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Speaker 2: Mutual Aid Disaster Relief is a network of people who

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Speaker 2: are locally embedded and know the area and are very

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Speaker 2: good at what they do. They are a grassroots organization

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Speaker 2: that get supplies and people and money to where they

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Speaker 2: need to go. I would encourage you to search out

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Speaker 2: Mutual Aid Disaster Relief on various social media to find

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Speaker 2: more information about how you can donate money, gear, or

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Speaker 2: potentially your skills and time if that is something that

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Speaker 2: you're interested in. However, it is important to know that

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Speaker 2: despite the importance of grassroots and DIY disaster preparedness. It

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Speaker 2: is still substantially better to work with existing grassroots and

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Speaker 2: DIY organizations because there's a lot that you need to

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Speaker 2: know before you can go into a disaster zone and

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Speaker 2: help people instead of wind up being someone who needs

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Speaker 2: to be helped. And so I would highly encourage people

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Speaker 2: to get involved, possibly by donating or by whatever is necessary.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Hello, and welcome to Cool People

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Speaker 2: Did Cool Stuff? Your podcast? That's it. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy and my guest is Katie Stole. Hi Katie,

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Speaker 2: how are you?

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Speaker 1: Hello?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well. I'm doing great. I'm excited for part two.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm like I always after I do the real dark,

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Speaker 2: long ones that are still about cool people doing cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: But I still sometimes I'm like, I just I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously dark things are happening in this but and now

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Speaker 2: I feel like a jerk being like this lighthearted thing

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Speaker 2: where thousands of people have died.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, right, I get you. But to

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Speaker 3: bring it back to where we were last week, it

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Speaker 3: is hopeful, It is inspiring, and it brings comfort because

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Speaker 3: we know that bad stuff is.

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Speaker 5: Going to continue to happen.

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Speaker 3: We see it happen all the time, especially with climate change,

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Speaker 3: with our.

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Speaker 5: Wild politics.

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Speaker 3: But the fact that the one through line is that

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Speaker 3: people support each other and show up in times of need.

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Speaker 3: I think at the end of the day, that's the

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Speaker 3: scariest part. It's like the unknown what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: But if you can count on the fact that there

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Speaker 3: will be people, that there will be options, then that

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Speaker 3: it is. It's comforting for me. It is.

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Speaker 2: You ever heard a shepherd's tone, I feel like we

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Speaker 2: should splice this in so no matter how long you

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Speaker 2: listen to that sound, it'll keep going up.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's intense.

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Speaker 5: That's cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They actually use it a lot in movies and

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Speaker 2: things like that. And you can also design them to

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Speaker 2: go down as well. The idea of it is you

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Speaker 2: can make something always sound like it's getting higher or

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Speaker 2: lower by having their multiple tones are playing at once,

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Speaker 2: and they're all going up and then down. Their sine

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Speaker 2: waves they go up and down, up and down, up

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Speaker 2: and down, right, but you put the volume emphasis on

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Speaker 2: the ones as they're rising. In this kind of complicated way,

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Speaker 2: your ear will always hear the one that is rising,

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Speaker 2: or always hear the one that is lowering. Okay, that

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Speaker 2: happens to us with the world. I think things are

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Speaker 2: always getting worse, things are always getting better. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it depends on where you put the emphasis. Now, there

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Speaker 2: is still real worse and better. Right, There's obviously things

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Speaker 2: that are worse, you know. World War two is a

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Speaker 2: worse time overall to be alive than almost anything that's

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Speaker 2: happened in human history. But then there's lots of other

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Speaker 2: stuff that's really bad too, right. I think about this

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Speaker 2: a lot. I think about how what we choose to

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Speaker 2: focus on literally changes as things get both better and

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Speaker 2: worse what we choose to focus on. But I don't

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Speaker 2: advocate us therefore being like only focus on the positive.

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Speaker 2: That's nonsense, right, because there's all this horrible stuff that's

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Speaker 2: happening that needs fighting. But we can be aware of

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Speaker 2: the bad stuff while still not losing track of the

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Speaker 2: stuff that's fighting it. Yeah, that's my hypothesis with my

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Speaker 2: strange metaphor.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely no, that totally works.

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Speaker 2: So the story that we're going to talk about today,

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Speaker 2: I want to think our producer Sophie, who I hadn't

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Speaker 2: introduced yet. Hi, Hi Sophie.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Sophie is the one who brought the story to my attention.

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Speaker 3: Good job, Sophie in advance.

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Speaker 1: Thanks.

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Speaker 2: He also to do the rest of the credits because

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Speaker 2: I forgot our audio engineers Rory Hi Rory Hi, Ri

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Speaker 2: Hi Rory, and our theme music was written for us

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Speaker 2: by unwoman. And then the sort of credit I think

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Speaker 2: for sort of bringing this story to more people's attention

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Speaker 2: right now is the TikToker Kalia Please, who made a

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Speaker 2: short video about this story and got people talking about it.

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Speaker 2: And that's the chain of events that led to you

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Speaker 2: hearing it here. Maybe you've already heard it elsewhere, but

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Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you probably a bunch about it

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Speaker 2: that you haven't heard. Who knows here we.

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Speaker 1: Go, Yeah, I have several friends that grew up in Portland.

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Speaker 1: They had no idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're gonna tell a story about mutual aid,

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Speaker 2: about how the city of Portland broke its own rules

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Speaker 2: to get seventy water workers and essential equipment to New

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Speaker 2: Orleans during Katrina. It's also though a story of the

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Speaker 2: bravery of the Sewerage and water Board of New Orleans.

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Speaker 2: Like I started off just looking at the Portland Angle,

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Speaker 2: and I loved the Portland Angle, And I'm still going

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Speaker 2: to go with that. But then I was like, learning

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Speaker 2: more about the sewerage and water board of New Orleans,

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Speaker 2: and they are fucking heroes. Yeah, they are the first

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Speaker 2: responders who get no credit. Never seen anyone fly a

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Speaker 2: thin sewerage and waterboard line flag off the back of

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Speaker 2: their pickup truck, although forty percent of cops do fly

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Speaker 2: that flag. If you want more information about that, just

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Speaker 2: google forty percent of cops. Okay, yeah, okay, anyway, if

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Speaker 2: anyone wants to know what joke that is, just google

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Speaker 2: forty percent of cops.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, go for it.

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Speaker 2: Anyway. The waterboard, the good waterboard.

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Speaker 1: The good waterboard.

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Speaker 4: There we go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I kept wanting to call them the water borders

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Speaker 2: in this, and then I'm like, I probably can't, but

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Speaker 2: maybe I will anyway. The city of New Orleans has

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Speaker 2: always had water issues. It is shaped like a bowl,

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Speaker 2: it is right in a place that hurricanes like to go,

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Speaker 2: and most dangerous of all, it's poor and predominantly black.

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Speaker 2: So the infrastructure has been criminally underfunded since forever. During

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Speaker 2: the seventies, eighties, and nineties, there were record floods all

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Speaker 2: of the time, and the city desperately needed to update

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Speaker 2: its pumping stations and shit. They developed this whole big

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Speaker 2: plan in the federal government was supposed to pay for

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Speaker 2: about seventy five percent of the improvements, and then they

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Speaker 2: kind of and the infrastructure was underfunded. And then Hurricane

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Speaker 2: Katrina hit in two thousand and five. At the time

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Speaker 2: that that hit, the Sewerage and Water Board of New

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Speaker 2: Orleans had twelve hundred employees and seven hundred vehicles, but

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Speaker 2: five hundred of those vehicles were destroyed by the storm.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much immediately. A skeleton crew of three hundred employees

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Speaker 2: stayed for the storm, staffing various pumping stations and shit.

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Speaker 2: And then while they were doing that, the crisis of

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Speaker 2: a lifetime hit. The levees broke. Eighty percent of the

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Speaker 2: city was suddenly underwater, and as we talked about in

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Speaker 2: a common Ground episode, you saw some white folks from

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Speaker 2: richer neighborhoods forming militias and going through the streets and

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Speaker 2: killing black people, while black people, with the help of

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Speaker 2: some white people, wound up in armed standoffs to save

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Speaker 2: people's lives. People came out of the woodwork to help

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Speaker 2: one another. The national media, though, speaking of this elite

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Speaker 2: panic stuff, they panicked and they talked about like rape

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Speaker 2: and murder, gangs in the Superdome where people were hiding

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Speaker 2: from the storm. This was entirely a fabrication. The New

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Speaker 2: York Times, the paper that lost all of its credibility

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Speaker 2: over and over again, but you know whatever, we still

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Speaker 2: read it. Sometimes. They said that the city was quote

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Speaker 2: a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, and marauding thugs.

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Speaker 5: Unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is completely a lie. Like the Superdome thing

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Speaker 2: was just like entirely a fabrication. It's just all rumors,

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Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, except for the white supremacist gangs defending property.

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Speaker 2: Those are the only people doing any of the things

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Speaker 2: that they were talking about. But that's not what New

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Speaker 2: York Times was talking about.

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Speaker 3: Especially in contrast to what we know about what was

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Speaker 3: going on, which is just the most horrific tragic. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: loss of life, loss of property, people panicked, scared.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, And then the looting overall was organized

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Speaker 2: groups getting together to get things that people couldn't get,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's always that the idea, is it looting or

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Speaker 3: were people desperate to survive?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Come on, and frankly, I would be in a

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Speaker 2: bad position to be mad at someone who was also

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Speaker 2: like and while I'm mad at I'm getting a TV

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Speaker 2: because I've been for my entire fucking life. But whatever.

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Speaker 2: But that's not what we actually.

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Speaker 3: Saw by and large there, right.

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Speaker 2: But the Waterboard they had three hundred people, and they

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Speaker 2: were trying to do the work that took twelve hundred

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Speaker 2: people when the city wasn't in crisis. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: spent an awful lot of time this week reading their

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Speaker 2: reports about the whole thing, and I'm going to read

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Speaker 2: to you a bit about it. First of all, when

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Speaker 2: Katrina hit, this made eighty percent of the Waterboard homeless.

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Speaker 2: Their homes were destroyed by the storms. Yeah, they had

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Speaker 2: three hundredployees at first, while about fifty others returned within

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Speaker 2: a few days. By the end of the sort of crisis,

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Speaker 2: only about five hundred out of twelve hundred employees returned.

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Speaker 2: So they're working with like skeleton crew.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They set up a home base in the Algiers Wastewater

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Speaker 2: Treatment Center, which is right across the river from the

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Speaker 2: rest of New Orleans. It's actually the same neighborhood that

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Speaker 2: Common Ground was set up in, because this is this

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Speaker 2: was the neighborhood that wasn't underwater. The wastewater treatment center

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Speaker 2: there was the only functioning station in the city, and

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Speaker 2: it provided most of the water for relief efforts and

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Speaker 2: firefighting and all of that. So they have to maintain

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Speaker 2: it right and keep water, which is classically the only

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Speaker 2: thing we need more than that is air you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean love, No, I actually need air water flow.

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Speaker 2: It probably has air water food. No air water love food,

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Speaker 2: that's probably yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And our order of needs, hierarchy of needs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And so they provided all of the water for

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Speaker 2: firefighting and all that shit, and they worked NonStop throughout

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Speaker 2: the city. Best as I can tell, they were like

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Speaker 2: only sleeping when they realized it was the best way

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Speaker 2: to help was to like get the fuck to sleep

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Speaker 2: for a couple hours.

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Speaker 3: You know, be rested. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They lived in these disaster relief tents that get called yurts,

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Speaker 2: and they set up their offices under pavilions, and they

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Speaker 2: had no way of knowing if they would ever be

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Speaker 2: paid for this work. Years later, FEMA was still fucking

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Speaker 2: the contractors over that they like worked with Wow. And

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Speaker 2: so I'm not actually sure whether the issue was resolved

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Speaker 2: or not, because what happens is the press release eighteen

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Speaker 2: months after Katrina is like a condemnation of FEMA, and

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Speaker 2: then their later reports are less confrontational. They're like implying

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Speaker 2: FEMA still owes the money, but kind of trying to

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Speaker 2: softball it a little bit, and he's like corporate speak.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to quote from the eighteenth month

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Speaker 2: later report because I love a good salty report. And

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Speaker 2: so this is a government agency being like, you know,

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Speaker 2: FEMA's not doing their fucking job. Quote, FEMA isn't posing

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Speaker 2: a national flood Insurance charge on all work perform totally

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Speaker 2: to date twenty million dollars. This situation leaves the Sewerage

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Speaker 2: and water Board short of funds to pay contractors for

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Speaker 2: work already performed. Later in the report, they say quote

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Speaker 2: FEMA's lack of action and bureaucratic malaise leaves the Sewerage

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Speaker 2: and water Board with thirty three of sixty six East

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Speaker 2: Bank sewer pumping stations operating on temporary and unreliable pumps.

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Speaker 2: And then the report ends, it must be realized that

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Speaker 2: if there is no water, no sewer, and no drainage,

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Speaker 2: there is no New Orleans. It must be further realized

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Speaker 2: by all that if the present FEMA response to our

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Speaker 2: ongoing crisis is not immediately heightened and sustained, we will

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Speaker 2: very soon find ourselves in a city with no potable

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Speaker 2: drinking water or wastewater services.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that is salty.

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Speaker 2: This is eighteen months later. Yeah, good for them.

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Speaker 3: That's absurd and unacceptable. Yeah, obviously.

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Speaker 2: And so when the flood hits, everyone is working non stop,

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Speaker 2: much like we're working NonStop to get you the best

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Speaker 2: deals ever on your ads.

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Speaker 3: It's all I can think about.

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Speaker 2: Here they go and we're back.

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Speaker 5: Those were some ads, all right.

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Speaker 2: I know they sure advertised. That is one thing I

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Speaker 2: can say about them. Love, unless you have cooler Zon media,

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Speaker 2: in which case the only ad you hear is me

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Speaker 2: making the ad for a product you already have.

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Speaker 3: Cooler Zon media.

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Speaker 2: Experts around the country were telling the water board that

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Speaker 2: it would take them months to dewater the city. They

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Speaker 2: did it in eleven days. So basically, they did the impossible.

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Speaker 2: This is like a very like I know, I keep

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Speaker 2: saying I watch a lot of like Star Trek and

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Speaker 2: things like that, but I do. And you know, you

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Speaker 2: have that scene where they're like, we gotta repair the ship.

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Speaker 2: We're all gonna die, it's going to take us three weeks,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, okay, well we did it in three

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Speaker 2: days by climbing into dangerous particle water whatever. You know.

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Speaker 2: That's what these people did.

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Speaker 5: They actually did it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of employees were literally stranded in their

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Speaker 2: various pumping and treatment stations when the storm hit, and

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Speaker 2: they were kept working despite having no escape. Wow. To

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Speaker 2: quote a report from the Waterboard, quote, operators of two

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Speaker 2: pumping stations on the Industrial Canal clung to the rafters

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Speaker 2: for days with no food or water until teams of

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Speaker 2: employees in the coast Guard could reach them. In a

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Speaker 2: lot of cases, the coast Guard never reached them. Basically, hay,

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Speaker 2: were on our own. Call went out to all the employees,

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Speaker 2: and so waterboard employees, the water boarders, if you will,

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Speaker 2: went out in their personal boats to rescue their fellow workers. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the stories I'm going to quote from the

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Speaker 2: winter two thousand and six edition of The Tulanian, which

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Speaker 2: is the magazine from Tulane University, and as talking about

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Speaker 2: a waterboard worker named Gerald Tilton who'd worked at the

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Speaker 2: Waterboard for twenty four years when this happened, about repairing

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Speaker 2: a pump. At the very start of the flood, quote,

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Speaker 2: water came over the flood wall surrounding the station. It

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Speaker 2: filled the pits in the station, and the water kept

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Speaker 2: rising and came within about a foot of the third

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Speaker 2: level of the pumping station, which is raised about fifteen

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Speaker 2: feet high. At the back of the pumping station, Tilton

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Speaker 2: and three pump operators walked in ankle deep high water.

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Speaker 2: Fearing that they might be electrocuted if the water rose higher.

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Speaker 2: They dismantled the motor and blades of a big ventilation

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Speaker 2: fan to make a potential escape hatch, but seeing a

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Speaker 2: vortex of swirling water beneath the pumping station, they realized

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Speaker 2: it would be impossible to escape the building.

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Speaker 5: That's terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just in a literal succeed or die straight

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Speaker 2: out of fucking star trek. Yeah, these are the conditions

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Speaker 2: that they're working in. They look out and they see

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Speaker 2: the city as flooding, that the levees of broken in

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Speaker 2: without pumps running. They realize everything's going to be fucked,

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Speaker 2: so their work is essential. While they're there, they get

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Speaker 2: the call saying that they're on their own, that Coastguard

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Speaker 2: was not coming, that National Guard was not coming. So

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Speaker 2: they quote swam through floodwater to the generator building, not

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Speaker 2: swim out to go get somewhere safe. They quote swam

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Speaker 2: through the floodwater to the generator building next to pumping

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Speaker 2: station nineteen, hoping to start the generator necessary for the

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Speaker 2: pumps to work two feet down in the dirty, foul

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Speaker 2: smelling water where valves essential to the pumping operation that

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Speaker 2: had to be opened. So Tilton and another man dove in.

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Speaker 3: They got so heroic they got what.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they got the pump fixed, but they still had

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Speaker 2: to wait for the levee to be repaired to get

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Speaker 2: to draining the city. But they like did their piece

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Speaker 2: of it, you know. Yeh, fixing the levee isn't enough.

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Speaker 2: You also have to fix the pumps. Yeah, But then

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Speaker 2: New Orleans wasn't completely on their own obviously, as we've

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Speaker 2: talked about with other you know, in terms of the

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Speaker 2: people of New Orleans, all these relief organizations and like

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Speaker 2: Common Ground and you know, and also formal organizations are

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Speaker 2: showing up to try and help, and some are helping

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Speaker 2: someone getting in the way. But in terms of fixing

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Speaker 2: the water, you need specialists. Right. Three other cities helped

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Speaker 2: out the city of Lafayette, Louisiana, about two hours away,

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Speaker 2: since some cruise since their facilities were still working, they

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Speaker 2: ran the bacteriological samples in its lab. Wow. Okay, Little Rock, Arkansas,

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Speaker 2: the town that no one ever thinks of unless they're

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Speaker 2: thinking about. I think Bill clinks from there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I went to a pretty good puncture there once. Really Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was kind of jealous because everyone's rent was like

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Speaker 2: two hundred dollars for a house, because it's like this,

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Speaker 2: this is a while ago. But also it was a

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Speaker 2: real cheap place to live.

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Speaker 5: I bet it's still cheap. Yeah, maybe not that cheap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably up to six hundred dollars for I

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Speaker 2: don't know whatever. Maybe it's awful and gentrifying. Who knows,

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Speaker 2: I don't. But Little Rock, Arkansas is about seven hours away,

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Speaker 2: and they sent some staff and equipment and trucks. Both

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Speaker 2: of those cities are fanked. In every post Katrina report,

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Speaker 2: the water board is put out, or at least the

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Speaker 2: three to four that I read. But one city above

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00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 2: all earned the love of New Orleans and their water board,

354
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Speaker 2: the city of Portland, Oregon. And now you ever heard

355
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Speaker 2: of Portland, Oregon?

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Speaker 1: I have.

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Speaker 5: I actually heard about it at the end of the

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Speaker 5: last episode that we did on this topic.

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Speaker 2: Oh right, Well, most people know about portlanduse of Portland, Maine,

360
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Speaker 2: or they all know about Portland, Arkansas, Portland, Colorado, Portland, Connecticut, Portland, Georgia, Portland, Indiana, Portland, Kansas, Portland, Kentucky, Portland, Michigan,

361
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Speaker 2: New Portland, Maine, Portland, Missouri, Portland, New York, Portland, North Dakota, Portland, Ohio, Portland, Pennsylvania, Portland, Tennessee,

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Speaker 2: or Portland, Texas. But it turns out there's a city

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Speaker 2: in Oregon named Portland too.

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Speaker 5: Jesus Christ, that's wild.

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Speaker 3: I can guarantee you I didn't know about any of

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Speaker 3: those other Portlands. So unoriginal.

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Speaker 2: Good Lord, Okay, but at least Portland, Oregon is a

368
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Speaker 2: port What the fuck is Portland, Kansas doing.

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Speaker 3: Dreaming of ports It's not the land of ports I'll

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Speaker 3: tell you that.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: The first time I moved to Portland, I was like nineteen,

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Speaker 2: and I like climbed up the hill in Forest Park

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Speaker 2: and I like looked out and there was like another city.

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Speaker 2: It's probably Tigered or some shit. I don't know, but

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Speaker 2: we were like but we left Portland, but there's another city,

377
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 2: and so we decided it was land Port and it

378
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Speaker 2: was the inversion of Portland. There you go. That's funny.

379
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Speaker 2: And maybe Tigered is the inversion of Portland. I'm not sure.

380
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 1: Landport is a cooler name than Tigered because nobody can

381
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 1: pronounce Tiger correct. There's so many arguments about how that

382
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: town is the name of that town. Pronunciation on that.

383
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Speaker 2: I haven't heard it, and I'm afraid of the other pronunciations.

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Speaker 1: They say seven different ways on the news here.

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Speaker 2: I believe you, yeah that.

386
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I won't make you say them.

387
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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Katy.

388
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Speaker 2: So even before New Orleans put out a call for help,

389
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Speaker 2: the Water Bureau of Portland started putting together a plan

390
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Speaker 2: to help, and the plan was that we're going to

391
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 2: send thirty five engineers and other specialists to live and

392
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Speaker 2: work in New Orleans and help their waterboard, plus send

393
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Speaker 2: as much equipment as they could. And as soon as

394
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 2: New Orleans was like yes, please, can people help, they

395
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 2: were en route and they did this illegally, as was

396
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 2: proven in court later.

397
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Speaker 4: And it's funny they had to go to court later.

398
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, how dare you do that good thing. Yep,

399
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 4: that's what happened. They did it with approval from the

400
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 4: city government, but the city government was found in court

401
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 4: to have broken its rules about money spending in order

402
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Speaker 4: to do this. And I think they knew that they

403
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 4: were breaking all the rules when they went in and

404
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Speaker 4: they were like, Yeah, we just got to do this.

405
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Speaker 2: We don't care, we'll figure it out later. Yeah, people

406
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Speaker 2: are dying. All of the people who went seventy people

407
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 2: in total, and two teams of thirty five were volunteers,

408
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Speaker 2: and nearly all of them were union. It seems to

409
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 2: have happened by basically the unions in the city being like,

410
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 2: all right, you want to break all the rules and

411
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 2: get this done. Yeah, I'll break all the rules and

412
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: get it done. You know, they broke you union rules

413
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Speaker 2: and city rules both.

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Speaker 1: M hmm.

415
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Speaker 3: Good for them.

416
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 2: Portland City Commissioner Randy Leonard said during the sendoff of

417
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Speaker 2: the first volunteers, quote, we're violating about one hundred provisions

418
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Speaker 2: from each of their contracts, and we couldn't do it

419
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Speaker 2: without our union brothers and sisters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

421
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Speaker 2: The first team included sixteen members of the American Federation

422
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 2: of State County Municipal Employees Local one to eighty nine,

423
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Speaker 2: two members of the Electrical Workers Local forty eight, two

424
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Speaker 2: members of Operating Engineers Local seven oh one, and three

425
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Speaker 2: members of the City of Portland Professional Employees Association. I

426
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Speaker 2: don't have the numbers for the second team. The first

427
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: team gets all the glory. That's when the photos in,

428
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 2: you know, like, but but there were two teams, yep, totally,

429
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 2: that's what's important. Yeah, the equipment was sent on October third,

430
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Speaker 2: and on October eighth, people flew there. And now this

431
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 2: is not right away like, this is the like slow

432
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 2: grinding gears of bureaucracy to make things happen for belief,

433
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 2: which still matters, right Like, it was not too little,

434
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 2: too late. It was a still in time, very useful thing.

435
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 2: But Katrina hid in the end of August. Red tape

436
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: slowed them down, but it didn't stop them. And when

437
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: they showed up, they stayed in those same tents at

438
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: the command center at the wastewater Treatment Plant Algiers and

439
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 2: they worked twelve hour shifts and a second group replaced

440
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 2: them on November sixth, thirty days later. They did the

441
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: same skilled labor that the water boarders were doing. They

442
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: fixed things. They completed three hundred and seventy seven work

443
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 2: orders in the sixty days they were there. They rebuilt

444
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: pumps and motors and fixing vehicles, and they also what

445
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 2: all of the formal relief groups had to do. They

446
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: spent a lot of their time going around and documenting

447
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: things so that FEMA would ostensibly pay for repairs. And

448
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: then the thing about having, you know, sent a whole

449
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: bunch of its workers to New Orleans is that it

450
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 2: wasn't just the people who went to New Orleans who

451
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: had to work hard as a result, because everyone who

452
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 2: stayed had to do that much more work. Michael str

453
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 2: the now former director of the Water Bureau, told Portland

454
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 2: dot gov, which is the official blog of the city,

455
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: I wonder if all the other Portlands are mad about that.

456
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: They might be, They really might be.

457
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 2: Maybe they all share it. Maybe there's like a like

458
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 2: Portland Arkansas has like, you know, a little page on there.

459
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 2: I don't think it does.

460
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 5: It's like Portland dot go click your.

461
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: State, Yeah, totally, which Portland. Michael Sturr said, it was

462
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 2: more than just the people who went down to New Orleans.

463
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 2: In some ways, that was almost the easy part. Then

464
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: there were the people back here. We were short the

465
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: number of crews usually had to do our daily business,

466
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: and everyone picked like basically, it's like everyone had to

467
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 2: pick up the load. Yeah, and I think that that

468
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: part matters too. In the end, Moltnomah County Circuit Court

469
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 2: Judge Stephen Bouchong ruled that the Portland taxpayers shouldn't have

470
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: had to pay the two million it cost, and it

471
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: should have come from general funds instead. FEMA eventually reimburses

472
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: the city for one point eight million of this, Butuchong

473
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: has since been elected to the Oregon Supreme Court, where

474
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: he currently serves, and I can find nothing about his politics.

475
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: He carefully is not saying that.

476
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: Two million dollars. I know that that's a lot of money,

477
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 3: but for a city, and yeah, the size of this catastrophe,

478
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 3: that's like nothing.

479
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking at the Portland City budget annual right now. Yeah,

480
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: eight point two billion dollars.

481
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: Is and and how much of that goes to the cops?

482
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 3: I know, right, yeah, two million, that's like pennies for

483
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: each citizen.

484
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: But okay, yeah, and in the end, I think that

485
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: it was two hundred thousand dollars that wasn't reimbursed by

486
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 2: FEMA in the end.

487
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 3: That's okay whatever.

488
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you seen that like TikToker, I don't know

489
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 2: what thing was originally on, where the guy is like, oh,

490
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: who wants their tax money to pay for these Tongu

491
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: group people? I do. That's what I want.

492
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. That's literally what I would like it

493
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: it's spent on. I would like it spent on things

494
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 3: like this, please, that's what it should be spent for.

495
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

496
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 3: Also just not for not them, but just the cost

497
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: of like having some sort of hearing trial or taking

498
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 3: people out of work for the day. But you just

499
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: wasting our time and our money. Yeah, fucks anyway.

500
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm willing to bet if you ask, if you

501
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: just like did a little quick direct pull of the

502
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 2: people living in Portland. Are you proud of your city

503
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: or are you mad that four dollars out of your

504
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: paycheck went to this? Like, Yeah, the easiest four dollars

505
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: I've ever spent in my life is to feel good

506
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 2: about the city I live in.

507
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 5: Best money I've ever spent.

508
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

509
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: There's not a lot of positive Portland stories in the news,

510
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 2: my guy, Yeah wild Okay, Katrina was in essence a

511
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: wake up call for disaster relief for groups big and small,

512
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: bureaucratic and day. But what really is a wake up

513
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: call is deals. Oh thank god, Yeah, they just get

514
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: me out of bed in the morning. These deals, I know,

515
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 2: I know, what do you do? You could have been

516
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: buying long swords.

517
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 3: I could have been maybe I still have time.

518
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, a good arming sword, which is distinct from a

519
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: long sword by certain people's pedantic views. You know, if

520
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 2: you want to spend a lot of your time on

521
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 2: YouTube watching people talking about medieval weaponry, that's up to you.

522
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: But you don't have to do it, because we've done

523
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: all of that work for you, and that's why we

524
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: advertise only the finest medieval weapons. If what we advertise

525
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: doesn't sound like a medieval weapon, it's actually code for

526
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: a medieval weapon. So whatever you buy from these following sponsors,

527
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: including sports betting, it'll somehow come to you in sword form.

528
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: I don't promise. I'm lying. Here's ads and we're back.

529
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: Well that was fun, but I am dying to hear

530
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 3: how this results.

531
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean it did more or less. Okay,

532
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 2: so actually some really amazing things come out of it.

533
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: With Katrina, it was a wake up call for disaster

534
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: relief right and small. That's what I already read in

535
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: my script, and here I am reading it again and

536
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: figure out what I was trying to say, and to

537
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: common Ground in New Orleans was a major inspiration for

538
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: matter mutual aid disaster relief. The group I was talking

539
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: about last time, as for the various water boards. Because

540
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 2: of Katrina as well as nine to eleven and some flooding.

541
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: In two thousand and seven, they formed worn Water Slash

542
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: Wastewater Agency Response Network. Their goal basically, they're doing the

543
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: same thing. They're creating these national networks. To quote their

544
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: press release from two thousand and seven, their goal is

545
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: to quote encourage local utilities in every state to establish

546
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 2: intrastate mutual aid and assistance agreements between both drinking water

547
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: and wastewater utilities. It basically exists to streamline the red

548
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 2: tape that was slowing everything down. They are like looking

549
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 2: at the failures of bureaucratic stuff and trying to figure

550
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: out how to get around it. And it allows them

551
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: all to quote sign a single agreement covering issues such

552
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: as indemification, workers' compensation and reimbursement, and it quote allows

553
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 2: for utilities to share equipment, personnel, and other resources required

554
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 2: to respond effectively to any crisis. WARN helps utilities reduce

555
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: the typical response gap end quote.

556
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: That's rad. I know, I should talk to my My

557
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: brother works for the water department. Yeah, in his city,

558
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 3: his town, not saying where.

559
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I should talk to him about Portland, Colorado, Portland,

560
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: color We all live in Portland.

561
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 3: We all live in Portland somewhere. Yeah, one way or another,

562
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 3: we all live in Portland.

563
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, it's this is the first

564
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,239
Speaker 2: I had heard about WARN, because it's like, there's this

565
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: thing that happens where like I do this, at least

566
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if other people do it. Where I

567
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: see some of the DIY projects and then I see

568
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: some of like the failures of the large scale projects,

569
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: but I don't necessarily always see the wastewater worker who

570
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: is hanging on by rafters and fixing pumps, you know,

571
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: like the specialized person doing their professional job that is

572
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: a working class job that exists to serve the people.

573
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: Like well, and the truth is, I mean, and I

574
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: mentioned my brother, but I don't even think about it

575
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: that closely. But yeah, my brother's right now, going through

576
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: a period, there's always somebody on call and stuff does

577
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 3: go very bad, and training is significant because they're handling

578
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: stuff that could kill us if wild water isn't treated properly,

579
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: or if something goes wrong a busted pipe. There're as

580
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: much as storms in There was a huge pothole and

581
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: it busted up some pipes, and you know, I mean,

582
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: they're always on call trying. It's a different kind of

583
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: emergency response than I've ever thought about, just our water department.

584
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't always notice the work that people are doing,

585
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: and in some strange ways, because we don't see what

586
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: they do, we don't notice climate change getting worse, at

587
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: least not as obviously as we would otherwise, because there's

588
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: all of these people getting this stuff done, making our

589
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: infrastructure more resilient. I mean, obviously our resilient. Our infrastructure

590
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: is also falling apart. Right, It's like both things are

591
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: happening at once. It's that tone. It's the thing where

592
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,479
Speaker 2: things are always getting better and worse, and it's not

593
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: just an illusion where like it's all samey, samey, but

594
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: there are things that are people are trying to fix

595
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: and make more resilient. Yeah, and ooh, this chapter is

596
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: called conclusion. I never I usually subheadings, but I usually don't.

597
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: Usually they're not as like conclusion. This one is my conclusion.

598
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: In that voice up at top, I quoted a paper

599
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: by Stanford's psychologist Jamil Zaki, and then they conclude that

600
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: paper with for all the suffering they produce. Social behavior

601
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: during and after disasters provides a counterpoint to the prevailing

602
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: cynicism of our culture. Catastrophe compassion presents people with a

603
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: view of ourselves that might surprise us, driven by otherishness

604
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: rather than by selfishness during crucially important moments. One way

605
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: to honor and extend this positive behavior is to not

606
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: be surprised by it any longer, but instead to realize

607
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: that pro sociality is common, and thus to expect and

608
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: demand it from others and from ourselves. Okay, I've been

609
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: watching the Internet terror part this like homesteader influencer couple recently,

610
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: and they're really cringing, annoying, and I like don't mind

611
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: the people tearing them apart because I think that they're posers. There.

612
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: There's like white couple that uses hand tools and is like,

613
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: oh the rusty saw. Yeah, yeah, totally mm hm. And

614
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, there's photos where a woman with

615
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: brushed but not braided hair and clean clothes is like

616
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: moving manure around. And it's like anyone who's working outside

617
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: with long hair for long enough is braiding their fucking

618
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: hair or like putting it up in some way.

619
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 5: Getting it out of their face in some capacity.

620
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

621
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: And the guy's like hand sawing a log between sawhorses,

622
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: which means it'll pinch the blade, and it sure doesn't

623
00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: seem like he knows what he's doing, but people have

624
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: accused him of that. In the common this is like

625
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: what I spend my time doing is watching people make funs.

626
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 3: I saw a little bit of it, maybe because you are.

627
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if Yeah, it doesn't matter. I saw

628
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: it briefly.

629
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know. I don't know about these

630
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: two people one way or the other. They seem like

631
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 2: annoying and probably right wing based on their like, oh

632
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: we The real thing to do is everyone has a homestead.

633
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: They are selling a lie, whether they know it or not.

634
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: Homesteading the way it's sold is a lie. It is

635
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: a foundational lie in American culture. But forever and always

636
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: the supposedly rugged frontiersman has a few exceptions, been supported

637
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: by massive infrastructure that relies on those frontiersmen conquering territories

638
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: from indigenous peoples. It is nearly impossible to grow all

639
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: your own food as like a nuclear family. Anthropologically, whenever

640
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: humans live in small self sustaining groups, they are bigger

641
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: than husband, wife and children. There are a lot of

642
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: extended families. There's like clan structures. There's all kinds of

643
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: shit happening.

644
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: Community, yeah, a commune sorts perhaps.

645
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they are generally trading with one another or

646
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: building infrastructure together. I am an introvert and as hermit

647
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: as it gets, I live me and my dog alone

648
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: in the mountains, but I am not lying to myself.

649
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: We rely on each other, and we rely on society.

650
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: The sort of father of mutual aid as an academic

651
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: topic of study is the regular friend of the pod

652
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: of the anarchist and evolutionary biologist Peter Kropotkin. He was

653
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: like a Russian prince who was like, I don't think

654
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: this prince thing is for me. I think actually we

655
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: should have a horizontal society of groups that help each other.

656
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: And I'm an anthropologist and I'm basing all of this

657
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: by watching all of these different groups. And his nineteen

658
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: oh two book mutual Aid, A Factor and Evolution. It's

659
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: a pretty literal title. It presents the idea that counter

660
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: to what social Darwinists at the time we're saying, mutual

661
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: aid is a factor in evolution. H He follows mutual

662
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: aid throughout the animal kingdom and then anthropologically through a

663
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: ton of different society and it's one of the foundational

664
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: texts of the modern study of cooperation. It's like understanding

665
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: how different species can have mutually beneficial relationships, right the

666
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: like birds that clean the teeth or the alligators or whatever.

667
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: The fuck.

668
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's been a while since read the

669
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: science books that talk about this shit. And it's not

670
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 2: that competition doesn't happen or doesn't matter, but it's that

671
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: cooperation also matters. Like when you were talking about at

672
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: the very top of all of this, about how, like

673
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: many other things, we have this in it human desire

674
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: to help each other, we also have in a human

675
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 2: desire to hurt each other and.

676
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 3: Shit, right, absolutely, but like we can pick you know, yeah,

677
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 3: that's part of evolving and culture and growth is understanding

678
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: where some of our instincts come from. That's a benefit

679
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 3: of where we live at this point in time. But

680
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 3: in general, I mean, we're hardwired to survive, but we're

681
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: also hardwired for community. And at the end of the day,

682
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 3: we've never not relied on each other, right to some degree,

683
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 3: depending on how big your community is, but that is

684
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 3: how we have arrived where we are today. Yeah, the

685
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 3: evolution of society and culture.

686
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's interesting because it's like it it

687
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: turns out the argument is that it's not survival of

688
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: the fittest at each other's throats. Sometimes it's survival of

689
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 2: the fittest communities, and the fittest communities are communities that

690
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 2: are cooperative and so like, it's kind of interesting. Actually,

691
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: one of the first times I read about all this

692
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: stuff was I like, I'll probably talked about this on

693
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: the show before, but it's like lives in my head

694
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: a lot, you know. I found this article talking about

695
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 2: like scientists. It was like a science journal talking about

696
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 2: like why are there gay animals? Right? And I'm reading

697
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: this random science article and they're like evolutionary biologist Peter

698
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 2: Krapacken writing about this thing, and I'm like, oh, my god,

699
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: my guy, he's in the science and uh that like

700
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 2: the gay animals and like the animal kingdom, I'm talking

701
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: about humans here. I mean humans are animals too, but

702
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: like the gay animals will like the gay couple birds

703
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: will adopt to the fucking birds that are orphans and

704
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: shit or like, yeah, animals that have lost their mate

705
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: and aren't find you know, like they still find like

706
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: love and companionship with each other. Yeah, and so like

707
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 2: even though they can't reproduce sexually, some of them can,

708
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: some can't, whatever, mostly they can't, they are still providing

709
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: that species to be more survivable. So it is literally

710
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: part of evolution that some of us are gay.

711
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: Oh that's beautiful too. All of this is beautiful.

712
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, and so the end of that book, Peter

713
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: Kapokin writes, in the practice of mutual aid, which we

714
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: can retrace to the earliest beginnings of evolution, we thus

715
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 2: find the positive and undoubted origin of our ethical conceptions,

716
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: and we can affirm that in the ethical progress of man,

717
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: mutual support, not mutual struggle, has the leading part in

718
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 2: its wide extension. Even at the present time. We also

719
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: see the guarantee of a still loftier evolution of the

720
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: human race.

721
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, love that.

722
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. So taking care of ourselves in each other, it's

723
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 2: what we evolve to do. We're good at it, we

724
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: should do it, and.

725
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 3: That's how you grow too. I mean, there's so many

726
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 3: thoughts swimming around in my brain about this tangential but like, oh,

727
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: I might not have so much in common with that

728
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: person up the street, but we're going to come together

729
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 3: in this situation and learn and be on the same team.

730
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 3: And there's a humanizing element from that, And yeah, I think, yeah.

731
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's hard because, right, some people, some

732
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: of your neighbors might be like fucking Nazis, Yeah, right, exactly,

733
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: And there might be people who are trying to kill you.

734
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 2: But by and large, there's people I disagree with about

735
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: pretty major stuff that I do not want to see

736
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: starved to death, that do not want to see me

737
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 2: starve to death, right, like right, Yeah, And even the Nazis,

738
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: I want them to just stop being Nazis, you know,

739
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: I want them.

740
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 5: To stop being Nazi.

741
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 3: I'm not wishing physical harm on them unless it's I

742
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: guess very well deserved here, But I'm not gonna cry

743
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 3: myself to sleep. But I'm not out here wishing the

744
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 3: worst for anybody or a traumatic experience. I'm gonna try

745
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 3: to help. There was this conversation and I remember in

746
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: college this debate about altruism. You know what, I don't

747
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: need to go down that path, Okay, but well it

748
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: just does altruism exist? If like, if you're is there

749
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 3: any can you is there an altruistic act? And I

750
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 3: kind of took up and I'm not sure if I

751
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 3: stand by this, but that there isn't. But it doesn't matter.

752
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: You can use that word because at the end of

753
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 3: the day, for example, your friend hopping in that plane

754
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: that you referenced a very scary choice. A lot of people,

755
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 3: you probably wouldn't fault somebody for not wanting to do it. However,

756
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 3: I bet your friend, and it meant so much like

757
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: I don't know how I would live with myself if

758
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 3: I had the opportunity to help somebody and I didn't, right,

759
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: And so maybe there's something selfish in that, But at

760
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: the end of the day, I don't think it's selfish.

761
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 3: It's just recognizing that what I want is the best

762
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 3: for people.

763
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 5: Anyway.

764
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 3: This is a tangent, but I have been it's been

765
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 3: floating in my head a bit.

766
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 2: This is such an important tangent because we get presented

767
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: all the time, right, does altruism exist? Right? You can

768
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: find the selfish reason. You know, I want to be

769
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: the kind of person who does not let fear prevent

770
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: me from doing what I believe is right. So therefore,

771
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 2: if I get in that plane, which I didn't, but

772
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: like you know, I wasn't an option I presented to myself.

773
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 2: It was somewhere else in the country. I don't remember

774
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: where I was. But like, if I had gotten into

775
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: that plane, I would feel good about myself later. I mean,

776
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 2: at a time i'd be like, what the fuck am

777
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: I doing? What's wrong with like terrified? But yeah, yeah,

778
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,479
Speaker 2: and so I would be proud, So I would get

779
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: something out of it. Right. But the argument that we

780
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: get presented with all the time by society and the

781
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: Cold War, this awful is the community versus the individual.

782
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: And the thing that I love about mutual aida factor

783
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: in evolution is he's not saying, oh, being good is good,

784
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 2: and anyone who doesn't sucks, and you know we should

785
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: suffer for each other. Instead, he's saying, what is good

786
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: for the individual is to be good for the community. Yes, yes,

787
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: so we need to find where it's not two polar opposites,

788
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: you know, And I just like deeply believe that, and

789
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: like basically I do too. Yeah, I want to be

790
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: part of a healthy community where people take care of me,

791
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 2: and the cost of entry is to be a person

792
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: who takes care of people. And then I feel good anyway,

793
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: because like when I have like extra and I give

794
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: it to someone, I am like, I probably got more

795
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: out of that than they did. I'm like, I am

796
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: the best person. I just came twenty bucks to that guy.

797
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: I'm like a fucking here. They should make us. I'm

798
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 2: a saint.

799
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, like but a statue up of me.

800
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm floating all day.

801
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: And the thing is, as if you follow the trajectory

802
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: of this entire conversation of these two episodes, I extend

803
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 3: that to times of non crisis as well. Yeah, that's

804
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: my whole philosophy about society and communities. And you know,

805
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: part of the thing that I love about being in

806
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: a smaller community at the moment is that there's more effect.

807
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: My individual actions have a bit more of an effect

808
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: in here. But like I say this all the time

809
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 3: when people talk about, you know, housing crisis or this

810
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 3: that or the other, like different things. I'm like, well,

811
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: whether you like it or not, this is all.

812
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 5: Of our issue.

813
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally our.

814
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: That's a selfish that's coming at it from a more

815
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 3: selfish perspective, But it's like, we need to collectively approach

816
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 3: this problem because if not, the downsides that are all

817
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 3: of us. We just because you're like, that's not me,

818
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that that's not you know, in cert different

819
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: hazards or things that can happen. Again the selfish way

820
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 3: looking at it, but I believe fundamentally that healthy community,

821
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: you know, where we don't ignore the problems, that the

822
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 3: crises that people are going through, is better for all

823
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 3: of us at the end of the day. Yeah, and

824
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: just knowing that if something then happened to me that

825
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 3: there are infrastructures or people places that I can't go

826
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: out yeah for help anyway.

827
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 2: No, And I even wonder whether the reason that we're

828
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 2: seeing like Elon Musk pretending like he's ever going to

829
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 2: go to Mars or Facebook robot man buying all of Hawaii, Zuckerberg,

830
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: you know, is like they're trying to find a way

831
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: to nimby climate change. They're trying to be like or

832
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: they're trying to find a way to make it not

833
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: their problem, right, because it is everyone's problem, and so

834
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: they're like, well, how can I be safe in this?

835
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: And then the answer is like you kind of can't.

836
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely no, They're going to build their bunkers, and they're

837
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: different like things like advocate against policies because they're going

838
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 3: to continue making as much money as possible, but shure

839
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: up their own bunkers and their own backup plans.

840
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 5: Yep, but that's going to only take you so far.

841
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 2: But I love the like there was some report. I've

842
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 2: only read the pop science version of this, but the

843
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 2: you know, I read an article a long time ago

844
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: that was talking about how when the super rich we're

845
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 2: talking about all their bunkers. One of the meetings that

846
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: they had at the convention was how the fuck are

847
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: we going to get our security guards to keeping on

848
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: our side when there's like no money in the world's over, Like,

849
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: how do we make them still are subordinates? You know what?

850
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 3: A good question and it seems so.

851
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: Funny because the obvious answer is to make them your equals,

852
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: and you're like, weird little bunker cult, you know, but

853
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, fuck, what are we gonna I mean,

854
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: the answers, they're probably going to kidnap those people's children

855
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 2: and shit, you know, I don't know because yeah, there's

856
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: that other quote that I don't have source. That's like

857
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: from like the nineteen hundreds or eighteen whatever, nineteenth century.

858
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 2: That's like, oh, I can just hire one half of

859
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: the working class to kill the other half. You know.

860
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, anyway, probably is where they bring I'm focusing on that.

861
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 5: We've had a very hopeful conversation.

862
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: Yes, I think, don't get hired just to kill the

863
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: working class. That is the takeaway.

864
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 5: That's a bad deal.

865
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't do that, and do use your specializations to

866
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: help each other. And listen to even more news.

867
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen to even more news and some more news.

868
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 3: We're available as a podcast or the YouTube show for

869
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 3: both shows. Some people weren't thrilled that we started putting

870
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 3: the video of our podcast up on YouTube.

871
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 5: A lot of people were, yeah, it's weird.

872
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 3: Look, if you prefer just audio, just go listen to it.

873
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 3: It's still in your podcast feed. I love you very much.

874
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: But he got both options now, and that's a good thing. Yeah,

875
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 3: so yeah, you can watch or listen to both of

876
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 3: those shows. And we are in the throes of election prep,

877
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 3: so busy.

878
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 2: And if you want my take on random stuff, I

879
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 2: have a substack. It is Margaret Kildroyd at substack dot com.

880
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 2: All of the posts that are like meaningful and about

881
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: how I feel about election years and whatever. You can

882
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: find that there for free. And if you want more

883
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 2: of the like Margaret tells stories about hitchhiking or complains

884
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: about her day than those are for the people who

885
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 2: pay me. And that's Marta Kiljoyd at substock dot com.

886
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 2: And also you should listen to the rest of cools

887
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 2: on media because Selfie's nodding this genuinely really good because like, honestly,

888
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: I'm glad that more shows got added because sometimes at

889
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: the end of the week, I've listened to all of

890
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: the cools on media that week, and I'm like, now.

891
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: What, Who's going to keep me company today?

892
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: I know, like, while I'm you know, working on the

893
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: land that I live on, I was about to say

894
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: burning cardboard, but I would never do that. I totally

895
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: don't have a barrel in my front yard where I

896
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: burn all my cardboard. I don't know about the ethics

897
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 2: or laws around that, so I don't do that. But

898
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: if I did, I'd be listening to coolson Media while

899
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: I did it.

900
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.

901
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, don't burn things during fire season. Yeah, and

902
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: put a great over your barrel and don't tell your neighbors. Yep. Absolutely,

903
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 2: see you all next week.

904
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Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

905
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

906
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

907
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

908
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: your podcasts.