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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You from how stupp

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we are looking at

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Speaker 1: attention deficit hyperactive disorder. And this was a listener request.

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Speaker 1: Someone wrote in saying, Hey, I am a girl with

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Speaker 1: a d h D, and I've noticed that a lot

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Speaker 1: of times when I hear conversations about a d h D,

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Speaker 1: it's focused more on boys, the similar kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that happens with autism. It's one of those disorders that

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Speaker 1: you see a diagnostic gender gap. But it does not

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Speaker 1: mean that a d h D does not exist among

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Speaker 1: girls and women. Yeah, like a like a lot of

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Speaker 1: things along these same lines, you know, it just presents

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Speaker 1: differently in girls and women. And I think that's so

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Speaker 1: interesting because I too, always just thought a d h

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Speaker 1: D affected more boys than girls, more men than women.

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Speaker 1: And while more boys certainly are diagnosed with it than

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Speaker 1: women are um and girls, that doesn't mean that fewer

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Speaker 1: girls and women suffer from it. So what are we

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Speaker 1: talking about when we're talking about a d h D.

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling that it's such a common term

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Speaker 1: and diagnosis these days that a lot of listeners are

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Speaker 1: probably familiar with it, but just for a refresher, it

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Speaker 1: is one of the most common childhood disorders. Now it's

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Speaker 1: second only to asthma in the most commonly diagnosed long

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Speaker 1: term disorders and kids, which is pretty astounding. Um. It

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Speaker 1: can last through adulthood, and it's marked by things like

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Speaker 1: excessive motor activity and attention and impulsiveness. And they're actually

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Speaker 1: three different subtypes of a d h D. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can be predominantly hyperactive, impulsive, predominantly inattentive, and a combination

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Speaker 1: of hyperactive and impulsive and inattentive. And it's that inattention

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Speaker 1: mention that is really more associated with girls. And when

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Speaker 1: you're inattentive, it's it's not that you're not listening, it's

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Speaker 1: more that you have trouble focusing or maybe you become

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Speaker 1: bored easily. You have poor attention to detail, forgetfulness. But

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Speaker 1: this is a less disruptive hallmark of it of a

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Speaker 1: d h D than being hyperactive and impulsive. So instead

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Speaker 1: of sitting there tapping your legs really fast, drumming on

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Speaker 1: your on your desk with your pencil, hitting the student

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Speaker 1: next to you, children who exhibit in attentiveness as a

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Speaker 1: hallmark of a d h D are more likely to

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Speaker 1: just you know, kind of sit there quietly and stare

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Speaker 1: out the window. And speaking of that hyperactive piece um.

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Speaker 1: One aspect too, is that it's commonly associated or co

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Speaker 1: occurs I should say, with oppositional defiant disorder has a

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Speaker 1: co occurrence rate, and that again is a more outwardly visible,

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Speaker 1: outwardly manifesting kind of disorder that also tends to happen

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Speaker 1: more often in boys and tends to get the attention

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Speaker 1: of teachers and parents because I mean, when you're when

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Speaker 1: your oppositional defined, I mean that, I mean the definition

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Speaker 1: is kind of they're in the title like you're going

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Speaker 1: to notice that kind of hyperactivity, right. Well, there is

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Speaker 1: an interesting history to a d h D, but also

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Speaker 1: an interesting history of the diagnoses and the fact that

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Speaker 1: they have been on the rise for the last thirty years,

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Speaker 1: but their descriptions and medical literature go back like two

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Speaker 1: hundred years. It's just a matter of they weren't called

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Speaker 1: a d h D at the time. Yeah, It's been

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Speaker 1: known by various terms such as sensibility of the nerves,

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Speaker 1: having the fidget, having the fidget, having the fidget. I

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Speaker 1: definitely get the fidgets sometimes. Um. There was also a

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Speaker 1: period of time too, where you know, when medical science

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Speaker 1: wasn't so developed, that it was thought that kids, particularly boys,

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Speaker 1: who had the fidgets really were suffering from defects of

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Speaker 1: moral control. Yeah. It's interesting the phrasing, um, because they

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Speaker 1: just assumed that people with these kind of developmental disabilities

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Speaker 1: or disorders, um, that they weren't sure what they were

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Speaker 1: at the time, they did have some like lacking of

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Speaker 1: this internal compass that you know call I don't know,

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Speaker 1: just it was. It's sort of scary and awful and

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Speaker 1: terrible to hear a d h D or a d

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Speaker 1: D described as like a moral problem. Yeah. And then

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Speaker 1: after you have the moral control issue sort of fade

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Speaker 1: from the medical literature, it becomes renamed as a minimal

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Speaker 1: brain dysfunction, which also you know, speaking of scary. Um,

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Speaker 1: So it for a while, you have it for a

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Speaker 1: while two hundred years, you have it described here and

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Speaker 1: there in medical literature, but doctors never exactly figure out

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Speaker 1: what it is. But throughout that two year history, it

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Speaker 1: is predominantly described in boys, mostly European boys, and because

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Speaker 1: of that legacy, that's a a reason why even today

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Speaker 1: we see often a diagnostic gender gap. Yeah, and we'll

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Speaker 1: get into more of that, which it's it's super fascinating,

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Speaker 1: so so stay tuned. But anyway, um, so, moving far

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Speaker 1: forward in history, in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual includes hyper

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Speaker 1: kinetic Reaction to childhood, which also sounds scary. It's like

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Speaker 1: something really terrible is going on and you're having a

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Speaker 1: reaction to your own childhood. And in that first inclusion

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Speaker 1: of a precursor to what we now call a d

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Speaker 1: D and the d s M, it describes it as

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Speaker 1: being characterized by overactivity, restlessness, distractability, and short attention span,

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Speaker 1: especially in young children. And that was the thought back

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Speaker 1: then was that it was particularly something that affected kids

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Speaker 1: and that you would eventually grow out of it. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and you have to like, it makes me wonder. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of skeptics out there who just

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, we should just let kids be kids,

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Speaker 1: and that all kids have a degree of being hyper

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Speaker 1: or or you know, maybe we should just let them

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Speaker 1: run free and and be happy and not worry about

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Speaker 1: diagnosing them with things that were over diagnosing childhood. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess when you're trying to get your

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Speaker 1: child actually focus in class, things like that, that could

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Speaker 1: be an issue. Absolutely, you can have a very real

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Speaker 1: world impact, not just on behavioral issues perhaps at home,

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Speaker 1: but on academic performance as well. And we'll also get

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Speaker 1: into how a d h D can have particularly negative

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Speaker 1: effects on girls and how that interacts with gendered socialization.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of different layers to this, um

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Speaker 1: but in nineteen eighty the d S M three finally

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Speaker 1: renames the attention deficit disorder with or without hyperactivity, right,

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Speaker 1: and we do see some more diagnostic criteria changing a

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Speaker 1: little bit, which actually benefits girls. I would think, um,

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Speaker 1: but so where where does where does a d D

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Speaker 1: come from? Do you catch it? Are you born with it?

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Speaker 1: Just catch the fidget? No, that was the different episode.

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Speaker 1: That was That was our maths hysteria episode. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Can we mentioned though, the German doctor Heinrich Hoffman included

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Speaker 1: in this paper on the history of a d h

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Speaker 1: D who created a character called Fidgety Phil. That book

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Speaker 1: went through something like four editions. Yeah, and this was

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Speaker 1: sort of along the lines or in the school of

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Speaker 1: thought of a d h D as a moral deficit,

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Speaker 1: and so Fidgety fell became this long standing caricature of

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Speaker 1: a boy who I mean clearly at the fidgets. But

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Speaker 1: but am I thinking of the right book that the

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Speaker 1: child always like dies like enters like a fatal like

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Speaker 1: he's looking up and he's distracted and then he falls

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Speaker 1: off a cliff. That fidgety Phil. That might be there's

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Speaker 1: fidgety Phil. There's also like absent minded Abe. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of a literation going on, right, But I could

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Speaker 1: be fidgety Phil, poor fidgety Phil. Fidgety Phil might just

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Speaker 1: fidget himself on the side of the close. So talking

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Speaker 1: about where fidgety Fill gets his fidgets from? Do you

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Speaker 1: like that? I do? How much would would a wood

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Speaker 1: chuck chuck? If a woodchuck we're on adderall um neuroimaging

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Speaker 1: suggests that abnormalities in frontal subcordical sarabellar systems involved in

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Speaker 1: the regulation of attention, motor behavior, and inhibition have something

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Speaker 1: to do with it. Yeah, and doctors aren't entirely sure

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Speaker 1: why it happens, But there are now a lot of

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Speaker 1: studies that have been conducted on a d h D

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Speaker 1: and there's clearly a genetic component. Um. If your parents

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Speaker 1: have a d h D, there's a good chance you

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Speaker 1: will Sames's with your grandparents. Twin. Studies have shown also

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Speaker 1: that it's highly heritable, and there seems to be a

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Speaker 1: particular gene that is correlated to thinner brain tissue in

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Speaker 1: areas associated with attention. And one reason why some people

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Speaker 1: kind of age out of a d h D is

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Speaker 1: because that same brain tissue also tends to thicken as

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Speaker 1: we age. There have also been links in the literature

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Speaker 1: between a d h D and environmental factors like smoking

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Speaker 1: cigarettes when you're pregnant, uh, kids exposed to lead. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's also a brain injury link, but really only a

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Speaker 1: small number of kids with a d h D have

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Speaker 1: experienced traumatic brain injury. There's also a question around food additives,

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Speaker 1: although the research is pretty sketchy on that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's the idea that excessive sugar and foods is causing

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Speaker 1: all of this a d h D, which makes sense

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Speaker 1: because we often think of kids plush sugar equals rambunctious.

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Speaker 1: But the sugar theory has been largely debunked by research. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly so. The previous line of thinking it was that

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Speaker 1: around five percent of kids in the US were affected

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Speaker 1: by a d h D, but diagnoses have been truem

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Speaker 1: endlessly on the rise since the nineteen nineties and today,

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Speaker 1: according to the National Institutes of Health, nine percent of

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Speaker 1: US children between the ages of thirteen and eighteen years

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Speaker 1: old have been previously diagnosed with it, and that rate

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Speaker 1: of diagnosis has increased in average of three percent between

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Speaker 1: and two thousand and six, and then five percent between

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Speaker 1: two thousand three and two thousand eleven. So clearly the

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Speaker 1: diagnoses are increasing exponentially. And another important piece to this

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Speaker 1: is not only our children's diagnoses on the rise, but

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Speaker 1: also adult diagnoses. So now the n i H is

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Speaker 1: also saying that around four point one percent of adults

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Speaker 1: in a given year are diagnosed with a d h D. Right,

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Speaker 1: because people are starting to realize, oh my kids, my

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Speaker 1: kids have it, and they're learning more about the disorder,

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Speaker 1: and then they realize, oh, oh, I guess I have

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Speaker 1: it too. Yeah, And there has been an important change

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Speaker 1: in the most recently released ds M five which includes

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Speaker 1: having the symptoms stretched back to age twelve rather than

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Speaker 1: previously aged seven, which is a recognition of girls symptoms

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Speaker 1: um as we'll talk about, and also that it can

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Speaker 1: just generally happen a little bit later. So if you're

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Speaker 1: an adult and you don't know if it goes all

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Speaker 1: the way back to seven, that doesn't necessarily mean that Nope,

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Speaker 1: don't have it right exactly. So, I mean, speaking of gender,

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Speaker 1: we talked about how a lot of the early studies

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Speaker 1: and diagnostic criteria were based on just boys. Boys were

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Speaker 1: thought to be the ones that this really affected girls

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Speaker 1: not so much, or you know, girls were just different

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Speaker 1: and they didn't have to experience the horrors of a

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Speaker 1: d h D. And I mean that's even reflected in

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Speaker 1: the numbers of studies, you know. Um. One researcher noted

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Speaker 1: that there were only two studies that she knew of

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Speaker 1: at the time examining adult women for instance, and a

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Speaker 1: d h D. It just wasn't thought to be a priority.

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Speaker 1: This was a boys problem. Yeah, it was really jumped

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Speaker 1: out at me to see how the arc of a

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Speaker 1: d h D recognition started out with boys, then moved

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Speaker 1: into adult populations, and only recently is circling around two girls.

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Speaker 1: So even adult women might be likelier to get a

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Speaker 1: diagnosis compared to girls. And it's for that reason that

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Speaker 1: the National Institutes of Health says that boys are four

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Speaker 1: times the risk than girls of getting an a d

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Speaker 1: h D diagnosis. Right, But a lot of experts weighing

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Speaker 1: in now contend that boys and girls are equally at

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Speaker 1: risk for those diagnostic and referral gender biases that we mentioned,

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Speaker 1: And according to one poll, it seems like people do

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Speaker 1: have a general idea that girls are less likely to

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Speaker 1: be served in this area. Yeah, I mean, there is

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Speaker 1: a Harris Interactive poll a couple of years ago, I

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Speaker 1: think finding of respondents agreed that, yeah, girls are probably

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Speaker 1: not going to at any kind of a d h

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Speaker 1: D diagnosis. And even though the common line of thinking,

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Speaker 1: like we said, is that a d h D presents

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Speaker 1: itself more outwardly in boys with more hyperactivity, and for

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Speaker 1: a long time that's been the assumption as to why

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Speaker 1: there is this gender gap in diagnosis. It's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: girls predominantly exhibit the inattentive subtype of a d h D,

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Speaker 1: so we're just not noticing it because she just seems

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Speaker 1: a little dreamy, a little forgetful, No big deal, right,

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Speaker 1: So when you look back at early referrals to psychiatric clinics,

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Speaker 1: these were motivated by those outward obvious difficulties presented when

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Speaker 1: you have the hyperactivity and the disruptiveness. This ended up

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Speaker 1: being mostly young white boys, so they were the basic

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Speaker 1: for a lot of the diagnostic criteria. Um Ellen Littman,

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Speaker 1: who's a psychologist, calls this a referral bias and a

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Speaker 1: diagnostic bias girls who were diagnosed yours ago, decades ago.

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Speaker 1: Typically throughout history, girls who were diagnosed with having this

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Speaker 1: type of disorder had to exhibit the type of behavior

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Speaker 1: that boys did, because, like Kristen said, if there was

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Speaker 1: anything else, if it was just an attentiveness, it was

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Speaker 1: often overlooked. And it was that nineteen eight e d

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Speaker 1: s M those new diagnostic criteria that allowed for the

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Speaker 1: possibility of inattention without hyperactivity, and starting at that point

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Speaker 1: we see this huge jump in the number of girls diagnosed.

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Speaker 1: But even when that hyperactivity variable remains constant, gender still

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Speaker 1: plays such a strong role in determining whether or not

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Speaker 1: children are going to be referred to services. At least

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Speaker 1: according to results from a two thousand nine study in

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Speaker 1: the Journal of Clinical Adolescent Psychology, which gave parents and

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Speaker 1: teachers these short vignettes to read about boys and girls

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Speaker 1: who were exhibiting a d h d behavior in class

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Speaker 1: and asked him whether or not they would refer the

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Speaker 1: kids to learning services, and overwhelmingly whether the girls were

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Speaker 1: also displaying in these vignettes, these fictional a little short stories.

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Speaker 1: Even if the girls were also displaying hyperactive behavior, the

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Speaker 1: boys were still more likely to receive these fictional learning

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Speaker 1: services because quote the parents and teachers believe that learning

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Speaker 1: assistance is less effective for girls, which is a little

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Speaker 1: bit of weird wording in the abstract, because what they

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Speaker 1: kind of mean to say is they describe more in

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Speaker 1: the body of the study, is that it seems like

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Speaker 1: there is a greater emphasis placed on boys academic success

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Speaker 1: than girls academic success. So it's like, even if all

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Speaker 1: these girls are struggling in the classroom, we're still a

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Speaker 1: little bit more likely to pay attention to little Johnny's

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Speaker 1: progress compared to little Janey's progress. Well, poor little Janie,

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Speaker 1: poor little Janey. And that's I mean, that's also a

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Speaker 1: study funding that needs more research on it. But it's

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Speaker 1: interesting to see that it was notable that even when

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Speaker 1: that hyperactivity is held constant, gender is still the primary variable.

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Speaker 1: And it's said to that, um, gender is that being

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Speaker 1: a girl essentially um is more of a determinant for

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Speaker 1: you not getting a diagnosis compared to living in a

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Speaker 1: poor area, not having health insurance, not even having like

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Speaker 1: access to services nearby. All of those combined, you're still

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Speaker 1: more likely to get a diagnosis if your boy. Then

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Speaker 1: if you're a girl, well, um, we will get more

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Speaker 1: into the gendered aspect of a d h D and

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Speaker 1: some of the hallmarks of girls experience with a d

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Speaker 1: h D when we come all right back from a

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Speaker 1: quick break so we left off, we had established that

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Speaker 1: there has at least historically been this gender gap in

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Speaker 1: a d h D diagnosis, but that more recent research

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Speaker 1: is now ching up to the fact that girls also

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Speaker 1: experience it as well, but possibly in a different way

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Speaker 1: than boys do. So let's talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the hallmarks of female a d h D. Yeah, hormones

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Speaker 1: are a pain in the neck man like the brain,

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Speaker 1: pain all over your body because of your endocrine system. Um. Anyway, So,

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Speaker 1: symptoms of a d h D increase with puberty for girls,

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Speaker 1: but not boys thanks to handy dandy estrogen. At puberty,

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Speaker 1: girls a d h D related behavior tends to ramp up,

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Speaker 1: while boys calms down a little bit, not saying that

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Speaker 1: they outgrow it necessarily, just saying that we tend to

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Speaker 1: notice the hallmarks the symptoms of it among girls as

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Speaker 1: they get older and as their hormones start to change

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Speaker 1: at puberty. So that's a big reason why the criterion

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Speaker 1: for a d h D has changed from having to

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Speaker 1: have it since the age of seven up to now

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Speaker 1: having to have it since twelve, when you, you know,

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Speaker 1: the classic age for puberty to start. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: also we I mean, girls and women have to deal

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Speaker 1: with the fact that people are always mixing up our

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Speaker 1: health symptoms with PMS and PMD D. Oh yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: Well they just figure out, well, if you're having trouble

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Speaker 1: concentrating or etceterric, etceterric, etceterric, it's probably just you know,

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Speaker 1: something else going on. Um. Dr Littmann, the psychologist that

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Speaker 1: we sighted earlier, calls this sort of a perfect storm.

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Speaker 1: You have internalized symptoms, escalating estrogen mounting, shame and demoralization

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Speaker 1: in response to societal expectations because it's around this time

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Speaker 1: that you're hitting puberty, your hormones are changing. You're so

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Speaker 1: worried about fitting in and being like the perfect girl

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, but you know your brain has O

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Speaker 1: their plans for you. Yeah, And experts on girls and

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Speaker 1: a d h D often point out that gendered socialization

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Speaker 1: has a major impact on how girl manage their A

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Speaker 1: d h D were likelier to internalize and despite probably

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Speaker 1: having trouble paying attention getting school work done, there's still

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Speaker 1: more of a perfectionism that tends to run through girls

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Speaker 1: even with a d h D. Um and we are

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Speaker 1: three times more likely to have been on antidepressants prior

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Speaker 1: to an a d h D diagnosis, probably because, like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, a lot of times, these kinds of symptoms

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Speaker 1: that we exhibit are usually mixed up for things like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: she's just PMS and her oh she's just depressed, she's

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Speaker 1: a little bit moody, give us some paxel, right, right,

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Speaker 1: And a lot of that has to do with the

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Speaker 1: fact that, uh, our social penalties that we undergo that

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Speaker 1: we deal with us girls tend to be worse uh

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Speaker 1: than than the ones experienced by boys. Were more likely

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Speaker 1: to be rejected by our peers. Um, because if you

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Speaker 1: think about, you know, let's just let's have an average

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Speaker 1: stereotypical girl with an antena type A d h D.

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Speaker 1: You know, she may retreat into herself if she's not

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Speaker 1: picking up on jokes fast enough, or if she's unable

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Speaker 1: to kind of pick up on your feelings fast enough

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Speaker 1: read your face to know, oh I shouldn't make a joke,

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Speaker 1: she's sad, or oh she's joking. I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: You know, they can tend to be judged as selfish,

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Speaker 1: so they internalize their feelings. They try not to. They

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Speaker 1: don't want to appear selfish. They they're not, but you know,

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Speaker 1: so they end up retreating into themselves even more. They

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Speaker 1: might overestimate their social competence, think that they're funnier or

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Speaker 1: more with it than they are. Uh, they could exhibit

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Speaker 1: a rebellious stance and relational aggression. And then there's the

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Speaker 1: whole perfectionism as far as school work goes where um,

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Speaker 1: I think it was Ellen Littman talking about when girls

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Speaker 1: with a d h D procrastinate as girls and boys

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Speaker 1: with a d h D are wont to do, they

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Speaker 1: are more likely than boys at the last minute to

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Speaker 1: bust their butts to make this project perfect because they

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Speaker 1: still have this drive to be little people pleasers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and um, even though we've talked a lot about how

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Speaker 1: the hallmark symptoms of girls a d h D. That's

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Speaker 1: in quotes, um, how it's more commonly associated with the inattentive,

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Speaker 1: dreamy type hyperactivity also exists in girls. That that was

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Speaker 1: one thing another expert pointed out. She was like, don't

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Speaker 1: forget that the h and a d h D can

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Speaker 1: also manifest in girls as well. And I was just

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Speaker 1: thinking about that and the socialization issue and reflecting back

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Speaker 1: on middle school years and trying to fit in with girls,

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Speaker 1: and if like just remembering some girls that I was

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Speaker 1: around who were clearly hyperactive and how they were socially

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Speaker 1: ostracized for that, because it's like, uh, in those in

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Speaker 1: those years and through high school too, and even out

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Speaker 1: of high school. Unfortunately, it's like this fine line that

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Speaker 1: girls often have to walk between, you know, being I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like being not too quiet but not too loud,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And it's like if if

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Speaker 1: you have a d h D, you're far more likely

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Speaker 1: to be either one or the other. And so it's

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Speaker 1: probably because of this that research has also found that

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Speaker 1: if left untreated, girls with a d h D are

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Speaker 1: at risk for chronic low self esteem, under achievement, anxiety, depression,

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Speaker 1: and team pregnancy and early smoking in middle school and

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Speaker 1: high school. And that's coming from psychologist Kathleen Nado, who

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Speaker 1: is another expert in girls and a d h D

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Speaker 1: that we've been citing, and I mean this, reading all

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Speaker 1: of these articles too about girls and a d h D,

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Speaker 1: we're they're heartbreaking because it's the same thing over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again for this kind of internalization while

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Speaker 1: striving to make the grade and fit in if possible,

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Speaker 1: and just manage everything. And we've talked about the impostor

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Speaker 1: syndrome before on the podcast, but a lot of these girls,

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Speaker 1: you know, they they're working so hard and they might

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Speaker 1: be getting as they might be getting always, but they're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I have to work so much hard, harder

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Speaker 1: than little Susie over here. Why do I have to

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Speaker 1: work so much harder just to get an a when

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Speaker 1: she seems to breathe through it? And so you feel

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Speaker 1: like I must not be very smart. And so that

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Speaker 1: ties into the whole self esteem issue too. And um

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Speaker 1: a study in the Journal of Consulting in Clinical Psychology

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Speaker 1: found that UH girls with a d h D, especially

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Speaker 1: those with signs of impulsivity, are three to four times

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Speaker 1: more likely to attempt suicide and two to three times

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Speaker 1: more likely to attempt self injury. And with this study, um,

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Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out that it followed this group of

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Speaker 1: girls into adulthood and kind of checked up with them

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Speaker 1: after a five or ten year period, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: this kind of suicidal or self injurious behavior. Wasn't happening

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Speaker 1: like right then in adolescence when they were first talking

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Speaker 1: two of them, But it was with girls who perhaps

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Speaker 1: weren't getting the treatment that they needed and were had

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Speaker 1: been dealing for years with all of this stuff. And

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Speaker 1: this is how you know it was manifesting in the

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Speaker 1: kinds of uh, these kinds of negative behaviors. And also too,

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Speaker 1: I want to point out that our focus on girls

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Speaker 1: with a d h D and these kinds of issues

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Speaker 1: is not to discount, you know, boys struggles with it

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Speaker 1: as well, or to say that if you know, boys

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Speaker 1: are just running around, they don't they don't care if

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00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: they're having trouble paying attention. But research does find that

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Speaker 1: the social penalties for girls are often a lot harsher

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Speaker 1: for boys. But I'm so sure that boys experience a

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Speaker 1: lot of this as well. It's just the fact that

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Speaker 1: they are a lot likelier to at least be recommended

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Speaker 1: for learning services or diagnosis treatment something, um, whereas a

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Speaker 1: lot of girls are just being kind of left left out. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're more likely to expect a boy to have to

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Speaker 1: come up against a d h D and to have

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Speaker 1: to treat them for at etcetera, etcetera, whereas you're more

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Speaker 1: likely to be like that girls such an airhead. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or she can handle it, yeah, little Susie, little Janey,

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Speaker 1: I can push on through. Um. But and you look

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Speaker 1: at women, like the adult population of a d h

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Speaker 1: D um, women also experience it, and it's like it's

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Speaker 1: sort of a grown up version of the same kinds

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Speaker 1: of stressors piled on top of stressors that maybe have

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Speaker 1: an even harsher impact honest as women because ho hello

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Speaker 1: life responsibilities. Yeah. Researchers have found that women adult women

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Speaker 1: with untreated a d h D tend to have more

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Speaker 1: trouble with things like time management and organization, stress management,

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Speaker 1: anxiety and depression, and a lot of it ties into

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Speaker 1: that constant stress they feel due to managing demands of

429
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: everyday life. They they are more likely to exhibit a

430
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: learned helplessness style of responding to negative situations and feeling

431
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: less control over their lives. I mean if if you

432
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: are someone who is struggling with inattention and you can't

433
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: focus and you're forgetful, you might feel like everything is

434
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: such a struggle. Oh yeah, I mean just thinking about

435
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: not to make this Selbot meet Caroline, but thinking just

436
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: about that organization factor. Like for me, if my house

437
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: isn't clean and organized, I can't get anything done. It's

438
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: like this brain organization connection where like if my environment,

439
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: like if I don't feel like I have control over

440
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: my environment, as I'm sure if you know, for women

441
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: with a d h D like that must happen all

442
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: the time, then I can't. I just like can barely

443
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: handle myself. Yeah, now I I found so I had

444
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: to sympathize with one of the scenarios that one of

445
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: these psychologists was talking about, as far as like women

446
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: with a d h D might exert just just the

447
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: way that girls in school might have to work so

448
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: much harder just to get that a to focus, to

449
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: get that a women with a d h D have

450
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: to work so hard to stay organized that it's like

451
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: it's just mentally exhausting. And I totally sympathize, Like, I'm

452
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: constantly cleaning up after myself, past Caroline screws over future

453
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: Caroline all the time. I'm not hanging up my clothes,

454
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm not putting my stuff away. So I come into

455
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: my environment, whether it's my desk at work or my

456
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: dusk at home, or my room or wherever, and I'm like,

457
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: I can't focus, I can't accomplish anything. Let me make

458
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: fifteen to do lists. Yeah, it feel, it feels chaotic.

459
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: And that also reminds me of this article that we

460
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: read in the week, and it was written by a

461
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: woman with a d h D. But she didn't get

462
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: a diagnosis until after college, and she just talked about

463
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: how like revolutionary it was for her life, like pre

464
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: impost diagnosis, because she talked about how before that her apartment,

465
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean, she would lose her keys, she would lose

466
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: herself phone, she would find it in just the most

467
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: random of places. And not to say that the women

468
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: with a d h D like can't get their lives

469
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: together anything like that, but you know, it's these environmental

470
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 1: factors make such a difference as well. And what was

471
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: interesting um to regarding women in these a d h

472
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: D diagnoses is that the primary way that the light

473
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: bulb goes off of like oh wait no, this might

474
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: actually have to do with something going on in my brain,

475
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: not me just being a terrible adult, is that their

476
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: kids get a diagnosis and they hear the doctors talking

477
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: about these symptoms and they're like, oh, this sounds a

478
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: lot like me, because again there's that highly genetic components,

479
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: so interesting, so interesting. Yeah, it's just it's so unfortunate

480
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: that there's like this whole lifetime of this whole lifetime

481
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: cycle of a delay in diagnosis just because I'm a girl,

482
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: I must be less likely to have it. Maybe I'm

483
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: just an airhead. Maybe I just can't keep track, or

484
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean I lose my my mother for like two

485
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: separate Christmas. Is has given me these things that you

486
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: put on your key ring to like you, if you

487
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: can't find your keys, you you beat this little remote

488
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: and it helps you find your keys. But what if

489
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: you lose the remote? Oh no, trust me, I lost

490
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: the remote. I would lose the remote. I would totally remote.

491
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: And and this is one thing too where one of

492
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: the articles that we read about this was it was

493
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: phrased in a way of something along the lines of

494
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: women and a d D. It's a diagnosis, not an

495
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: excuse because there I think there is this perception because

496
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: the rates of diagnosis have increased so quickly, I think

497
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: it's raised a lot of skeptical eyebrows. For some people

498
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: who don't have these kinds of neurological issues look at

499
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: you know, throwing some shade and saying, well, they just

500
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: need to pay more attention or do something. But for

501
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: these women who have a d h D, I mean,

502
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: it's a very real issue. Yeah, you know, speaking of

503
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: the skeptics. Doctors will tell you and and psychologists will

504
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: tell you that there are a lot of life things

505
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: that can happen to you that can mimic these hallmarks

506
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: of a d h D. I mean, if you're going

507
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: through an incredibly stressful time at work, if you're not sleeping,

508
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: if you're drinking too much, going through a break up. Yeah,

509
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: there's like all of the stressors that can happen that

510
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: can make you feel crazy. And um I started thinking

511
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: about it, I'm like, Okay, I see I see that

512
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: there are life things like stress that can make this happen.

513
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: And I see that you can be a d h D.

514
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, but but aren't the life situations

515
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: like the situational a d h D symptom type things

516
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: don't those go away? Might have never gone away, So

517
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: I feel like I should Caroline, I think you might

518
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: be doing a little bit of your podcast diagnoses you

519
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: your your sminty symptom checker. I told my boyfriend last night.

520
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: I was like, ah, I think I have a d

521
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: h D. And he looks at me and he's like,

522
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: what are you doing for the podcast this week? It's true,

523
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: but hey, you know, it could be worth checking into

524
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: a good fear if you're concerned. Yeah, I could finally

525
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: get my apartment organized. But the good news is though

526
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: there are so many resources out there specifically focused on

527
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: women and girls. There's the National Center for Gender Issues

528
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: in a d h D. There's a National Center for

529
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: Girls and Women with a d h D. They are

530
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: all sorts of books now specifically focused on women in

531
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: a d h D, local support groups even so, you know,

532
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: the resources and the research are starting to definitely catch

533
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: up with the you know, the female population um. But

534
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: where the skepticism kind of starts to creep in a

535
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: bit more. I think it's not so much with you know,

536
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: whether or not a d h D exists, but more

537
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: in the treatment of it, because we got to talk

538
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: about a d h D meds and how for some

539
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: people they have been wonder drugs and for some other

540
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: people they've also been wonder drugs, but not necessarily because

541
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: they have a d D. Yeah, I mean, I think

542
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: we all know people who have misused things like adderall

543
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: or riddle in in order to cram for a test,

544
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: to lose weight, to do x y Z, to be

545
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: like a wonder woman in their lives wives or a

546
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: wonder man. Yeah. I mean there have been trend pieces

547
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: since you and I were in college, Caroline about college

548
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: students in the library buying adderall to stay up all

549
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: night to you know, to study, or buying adderall to

550
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: stay up all night to party. Well, yeah, I remember

551
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: friends doing this freshman year and me just thinking, like

552
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: I just like sleep. I'm fine with not studying all night. Um.

553
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: But it's interesting to look at like this, this notch

554
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: in the timeline because since the number of kids on

555
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: a d h D medication has soared from six hundred

556
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: thousand to three point five million people. But you also

557
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: have to look at the What happened in the late

558
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, which is, federal guidelines were loosened, allowing marketing

559
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: firms basically to market controlled substances like stimulants directly to

560
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: the public, a lot of kate in a lot of

561
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: cases marketing them to moms specifically. Oh yeah, there were

562
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: you know, all these ads. You've probably see them listeners

563
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: in magazines or in commercials where there's a happy mom

564
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: standing there with her usually son holding up a test

565
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: with like a B plus and she's, you know, with

566
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: a tagline something along the lines of he's finally living

567
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: up to his academic potential. Yeah. They a lot of

568
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: ads driving him the fact of like, don't you want

569
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: to ease the tension in your family? Don't you want

570
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: the best for your son? Don't you want him to

571
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: perform better in school? Mom? Yeah? So there has been

572
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: this troublesome relationship between pharmaceutical companies like Shire, which makes

573
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: adderall and this rise in a d h D diagnoses

574
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: in The New York Times magazine recently did a big

575
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: piece on how this rise in a d h D

576
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: diagnoses among kids and adults has coincided obviously with the

577
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: rise in a d h D medication, and I mean

578
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: Shire is making billions off of adderall I mean not

579
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: to mention all of the other kinds of you know,

580
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: name brand medications like concert A, riddling, etcetera. And how

581
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: a lot of these pharmaceutical companies have recruited a lot

582
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: of doctors with really great titles and research, you know,

583
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: heavy backgrounds, who have studies that they've published, to go

584
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 1: out and speak to groups of doctors and suggest that

585
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: they really look out for signs of a d h

586
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: D and really you know, push some push some adderall

587
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: their way. And and that's so unfortunate because clearly this

588
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: is you know, a d h D absolutely exists. But

589
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: it's once these kinds of murky relationships between doctors and

590
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: big pharma come up that you you know, you you

591
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: give more credence to skeptics who say, you know, this

592
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: is all made up. Yeah. For instance, Dr Keith Connors,

593
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: who's a specialist in a d h D, was almost

594
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: angry in this story when he heard about the numbers

595
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: because the numbers of children and adults on a d

596
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: h D meds. He says, the numbers make it look

597
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: like an epidemic, but it's not. It does affect people,

598
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: for sure, people struggle with it, men, women, boys, girls.

599
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: But the fact is that he doesn't think and a

600
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: lot of other doctors don't think that the numbers are

601
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: accurate as far as who's on medicine versus who actually

602
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: has a d h D. Yeah, I think there's definitely

603
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: been some over diagnosis that's gone on. And also, and

604
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: this is kind of a side note, we don't have

605
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: I don't have sources in front of me on this,

606
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: but one thing that comes to mind is that we're

607
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: now we've come through a generation of kids who received

608
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: this diagnosis and maybe a prescription to adderall or riddle

609
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: in when they were kids. Now there were there our

610
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: age and they still have these prescriptions, And it doesn't

611
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 1: seem like there has been a lot of attention paid

612
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: to long term management outside of just popping pills, because

613
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: just popping pills when it comes to popping stimulants doesn't

614
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: always lead to the healthiest lifestyles or healthiest you know,

615
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: physical mental impacts. Yeah, because not only would some people

616
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: maybe take them for the wrong reasons, but then you've

617
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: got to deal with heart palpitations, insomnia, just general ikey

618
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 1: health issues. From maybe taking the wrong dose, or taking

619
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: the wrong pill, or maybe not needing to take it

620
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: at all. But the fact of the matter is adderall

621
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: and going nowhere. Express Scripts told MPR earlier this year

622
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 1: that it expects a d h D medications to rise

623
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: in the next five years um and it's risen thirty

624
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: five point five percent between two thousand and eight and

625
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve among people with private insurance um and

626
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: while children's use of a d h D medications were up,

627
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: adults use rose fifty three percent. Yeah, because, I mean,

628
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot of reasons for that. Part of it

629
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 1: is that kids are kids are growing up and becoming

630
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: grown ups who need medicine. Part of it is that

631
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: you've got moms who are looking at their kids saying, oh,

632
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: this explains my struggles in school. I need to be

633
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: on this medicine. And then you've got a lot of

634
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: people who are saying, I need to study for exams,

635
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: I need to lose weight, I need to be wonder woman. Yeah.

636
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: I mean, because the fact of the matter is, as

637
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: as a stimulant, you can get a lot done. You

638
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: know you can if you want an edge. Just happens

639
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: a lot in academia to where, you know, in a

640
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: publishing heavy kind of job where if you need to

641
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: sit there and stare at books and read thick you know,

642
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: papers and then thick papers. Adderall has been a wonder

643
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: drug for a lot of people. There are even some

644
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: people There is an article, a couple of articles actually,

645
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: I think in Slate for instance, from these writers saying, yeah,

646
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: I take adderall. It's amazing, I write so much. Yeah.

647
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: And before we make this sounds super attractive to you,

648
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: you have to remember that adderall is a schedule to

649
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: controlled substance as our morphine and oxy code own, meaning

650
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: it has a high risk for addiction or abuse. Yeah,

651
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: and there are side effects that go along with chronic abuse,

652
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: such as severe rash, insomnia, irritability, personality changes. Um. And

653
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: we're focusing so much on adderall use in a d

654
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: h D medication because its use is actually increasing the

655
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: most demographics wise among young women, which probably has to

656
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: do with a lot of what we're talking about in

657
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: terms of, you know, the diagnostic gender gap closing, but

658
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: it probably also has to do a little bit with

659
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: some abuse happening because of the side effects of things

660
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 1: like weight management. Because if you take a stimulant, You're

661
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: probably not gonna want to eat too much. Uh, school

662
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 1: cram sessions, maybe staying out and partying. I mean, there

663
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: are a lot of I don't know, just hang out

664
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: on a college campus. Kids will tell you about it. Yeah,

665
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: And I wonder how much of it is tied to

666
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: gender norms. You've got to be the right kind of woman.

667
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: You know, you've got to be thin, You've got to

668
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: be organized, you have to be neat and tidy. You

669
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: need to be successful. You have to be successful. You've

670
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: got to you know, work all day, come home cooked in,

671
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: or do the dishes, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah, and I

672
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: think that a lot of people have found out her

673
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: all to be a you know, a simple way, it's

674
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 1: simple and quotes way to make all of that happen,

675
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: to have it all. Um. So, while it's heartening to

676
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: see that there, you know, is a greater likelihood that

677
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: if you are a girl, are a woman with a

678
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: d h D, that there will be resources there for you,

679
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: that you might be more likely to be recommended for something.

680
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: Um that treatment is available. But there's that other piece

681
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: of this whole, a d h D issue, which is

682
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: what do we do about I don't think it's so

683
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: much in a d h D epidemic that might be

684
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: happening as much as an adderall epidemic. Not a sound

685
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: like my mother, you know, But I don't know what

686
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: do you? Is it too alarmoust to say that. I

687
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: think the numbers are pretty crazy. I think Dr Connors

688
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: is right when he says that it's not an epidemic

689
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: of a d h D. It's not that we're we're

690
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: birthing all of these children every day who you know,

691
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: are destined to not be able to concentrate. It's it

692
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 1: is more than just I think more and more people

693
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 1: are like, I can get stuff done on adderall. Yeah. Um,

694
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: but it's it's just important too that while a lot

695
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: of docs hail it, like we keep using the term

696
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: wonder drug, but that there are side effects as with

697
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: any medication, and it's gonna also, as with every health

698
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: issue we talked about on this podcast, affect different bodies differently. Absolutely, So,

699
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: who did we end this on a down note? I

700
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: don't want to end this on a down note. No,

701
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: I think we ended it on a kind of a warning, Yeah,

702
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: a warning of of uh, you know, you want to

703
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: take care of yourself a little buyer, Beware you should

704
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: always be aware a little bit when it comes to

705
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: our bodies and brains. We want, we want little Janey

706
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: to grow up to be healthy. Yeah, but I gotta

707
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: say so so fascinating those gendered socialization issues that often

708
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: compound a lot of this a d h D stuff

709
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: for girls, fascinating and tragic. They're they're definitely important things

710
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: to keep in mind if if you have kids with

711
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: a d h D, if you're a teacher, if you're

712
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: a doctor, whoever you are, it's it's important to keep

713
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: those gender differences in mind. So we now want to

714
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: hear from you because at least theistically there are folks

715
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: there listening who have a d h D. So I

716
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: want to know how how this resonates with you. Um,

717
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts. Mom Stuff at discovery dot

718
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: com is our email address. You can also tweet us

719
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff podcast or messages over on Facebook, and

720
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: we have a couple of messages to share with you

721
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: right now. So I've got a note here from Christina

722
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: and it made me laugh because you want to talk

723
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: about her Napoleon complex, which, uh, you don't hear about

724
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: a lot of women describing their Napoleon complex es. But

725
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: she says, I'm about five one, and that's being generous.

726
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: Because I'm so tiny, I find myself over overcompensating in

727
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: certain areas, such as drinking. I've always ordered whiskey and

728
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: coke at bars, one because everyone knows how to make

729
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: a whiskey and coke, and too because I know how

730
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: bartenders look at petite women like me. It doesn't help

731
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: that I look like I'm fourteen. I fig here it's

732
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: a respectable drink that's available in many bars, and I

733
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: just got used to the taste. Even when I ordered

734
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: these drinks, I would still get the occasional condescending comments

735
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: or smirks. This personal preference seemed to carry over to

736
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: my tastes and coffee as well. I started drinking Americanos

737
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: when I started working at a cafe. My friends and

738
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: I would also be able to predict what people would

739
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: order based on how they look. And in this case,

740
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: I am guilty of stereotyping since I judge people on

741
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: their drink preferences. I knew firsthand what people thought about you,

742
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: and I just didn't want to be placed in that box.

743
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: Since then, I've learned to really enjoy bourbon, and I

744
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: do enjoy the taste of espresso, even with the occasional

745
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: steamed milk. Mostly it's now because it's simpler to drink,

746
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: the better it tastes. As much as I don't want

747
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: to believe that stereotypes shaped me, I appreciate that it has.

748
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: My drinking preference is the tip of my Napoleon complex.

749
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: I've been more aggressive and stubborn on certain issues because

750
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: of it. I worked so hard on not fitting in

751
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: those stereotypes because I didn't want to be defined by them,

752
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: but eventually they affect the way I am today. So

753
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: thanks for sharing your experienced Christina, that's so funny. I'm

754
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm five too. I'm also a shorty, and I feel

755
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: sometimes like I have to be a little over aggressive.

756
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: I would have never known you were five to you

757
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: are seven ft tall in my eyes, Carol, I'm also

758
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: wearing wedges today. Usually we're a heel and wedges. Um. Yeah, No,

759
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: I I get looks because not only am I really short,

760
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: but I think something about my youthful expression makes people

761
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: think I am younger than I am. Um. But anyway,

762
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: I have a Facebook message here from Amanda. She was

763
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: writing in about our thyroid episode and she has a

764
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: question for me that I wanted to answer in case it,

765
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: you know, helps out anybody else. UM disclaimer. I have

766
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: Hashimoto's thyroid itis, which is an autoimmune disorder that causes hypothyroidism,

767
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: which can lead to all sorts of things like weight gain,

768
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: brain fogginess, tiredness, brittle nails. It's really fun. So anyway,

769
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: Amanda wrote to say you said there was a test

770
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: that was helpful in diagnosis, but did not mention the

771
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: name was that the T s H or free T

772
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: three T four that ended up giving you some answers.

773
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: I have been going through some of the same struggles.

774
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: The brain fog, weight gained despite diet and exercise, irritability, fatigue.

775
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: My family doctor has attributed to depression and placed me

776
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: on antidepressants. My T s H levels were okay two

777
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: years ago, but the symptoms have gotten progressively worse since then.

778
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: I will be going back to the doctor and wanted

779
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 1: to know which test to ask for. By the way,

780
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: I love the show. My husband actually turned me onto

781
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: you guys about a year ago, and I've been binge

782
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: listening ever since. So I'm really glad you are Amanda

783
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: and husband and Amanda's husband um okay. So the test

784
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: that I had that showed there was a problem because

785
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: my UH, my T S H, and my T for

786
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: free tests results were normal. But my thyro globulin A

787
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: B test, so that's the antibodies, showed that there was

788
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: an issue. The standard rain ine for thyroglobulin A B

789
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: is under twenty amanda Mine was eight hundred and twenty eight.

790
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 1: So that combined with a sonogram of my neck looking

791
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: at my thyroid to see if there were any nodules,

792
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: if it was misshapen, anything like that, the sonogram confirmed

793
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: that I had Hashimoto's thyroid itis. That was back in October,

794
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: and so I am due UH in several months for

795
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: a repeat of that test. And I just want to

796
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: say that it is super common for you, for doctors

797
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: or your family to think that you are just depressed

798
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: or dealing with anxiety. And if you don't have a

799
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: history of depression or anxiety, or if you don't have

800
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: a family history of it, I think it is really

801
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: important to get a full thyroid work up. If you

802
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: just can't shake the weight, if you can't shake the

803
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: brain fog because who knows. I mean, what could it

804
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 1: hurt besides a couple of vials of blood. So anyway,

805
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for writing in, Amanda, and I

806
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: wish you the best of luck, and thanks again to

807
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: everybody who's written into us. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot

808
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: Com is our email address, and if you want to

809
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: find us on social or find all of our podcast,

810
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: blogs and videos, there's one place to go. It's stuff

811
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this

812
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works

813
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: dot com