1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Body digs. But Joseph's gotten more out of all of 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: the holidays on the calendar by far. It's not even close. 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving's my favorite, and you know, I like it. I 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: think the food is grand and I've had some fantastic 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: meals over the years. And again I'll go ahead and 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: beat my chest over that. I am from Louisiana, by 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: the way, so I think that we do Thanksgiving best. 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: You know, oyster dressing, duck, we always had duck, several ducks, 9 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: of course, turkey, ham, someon bee fried, deep fried turkeys, 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, baked, you know, smoked ham. It just goes 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: on and on. And there's a kind of an interesting way. 12 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: In South Louisiana we do Thanksgiving. Many times it served outdoors. 13 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: The cooking has done outdoors, at least in my family, 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: and the spread is massive, and we would always have 15 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: tons and tons of people over there. I really enjoyed it, 16 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: but I enjoyed the fellowship of it too, because you 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: get to see people you don't normally see. There's no 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: pressure from giving gifts. That's one of the things I 19 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: don't like about Christmas. You're just there and you have conversations. 20 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: Of course, there's always that interesting uncle that comes out 21 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: of the woodwork every now and then, But you know, 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: you pat him on his head and you send him 23 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: on his way. But today I want to talk about 24 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: a case out of North Carolina, and the nature of 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: this case involves one of my favorite holidays, or my 26 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: favorite holiday, Thanksgiving, And guess what else it involves a 27 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: bottle of wine and cyanide. I'm Josephcott Morgan and this 28 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: is body Bags, Dave. I gotta tell you, I love Thanksgiving. 29 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: Are you a Thanksgiving fan? Or are you just take 30 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: it or leave it? 31 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: Or you know? I like Thanksgiving? 32 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Other than the cooking and the cleaning up, 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of pressure with it. 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I usually there is pressure if it's. 35 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: At your house. Okay, you know, where's everybody going to sit? 36 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: Do we have to go bar chairs? Do we have 37 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: to get extra tables? Actually? I prefer sitting at the 38 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: card table. The card table. You know, I'll sit there 39 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: with little kids. I don't care. You know, it makes 40 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: no difference to me, But yeah, so I would. Interestingly enough, 41 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: I was talking about duck just a second ago, and 42 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: one of the curious things when you have duck and 43 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: we didn't go to the butcher shop to buy duck. Okay, 44 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: I come from a family of hunters, and particularly duck hunters, 45 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, when you're eating a baked duck at 46 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving in our home, you would always get a bit 47 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: of lead shot in your teeth because they had been 48 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: blasted out of the air, you know, and you you know, 49 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: and it was nothing to see. You know, like members 50 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: of the family take a piece of lead shot from 51 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: bird shot out of a twelve get shotgun and you 52 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: would hear it kind of make that metallic tink on 53 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: my aunt's really good china. You know. It's like like that. 54 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking. 55 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: The family of Gudron, Linda, Gene, Casper, lining Google. We're 56 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: taken that better than the wine they ended up with. Yeah, 57 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: I have never in my life the one thing you 58 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: left out of the opening, Joe. Okay, we have Thanksgiving 59 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 3: and we've got death, and you know, we got murder, 60 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 3: but we also got decades separating here because it's like, 61 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 3: this woman is a cute used of some of the 62 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: most heinous stuff you can do. You're talking about using 63 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: Thanksgiving as the bait to get the family around the table, 64 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: and then serve up some wine to your daughter and 65 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 3: say here, let's have some fun, and maybe maybe your 66 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: daughter says, hey, do you remember back in two thousand 67 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: and seven, Remember remember when Mike died? I mean Michael 68 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 3: Schmidt died in two thousand and seven by poison, possibly 69 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 3: at the hand of the same woman who is now 70 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 3: accused of killing her daughter, Leela jean Leavs Livas Livas, 71 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: Okay Livas. 72 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: So here we go. 73 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: We have our suspect, Gudrum Linda Gene Casper Lynen Koogle. 74 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 3: She's fifty two. She is accused of poisoning her own daughter, 75 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 3: Leela jean Us just this past Thanksgiving, by the way, 76 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 3: and attempting to kill her other daughter Mia Lacey, and 77 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: MEA's boyfriend Richard Peg. They're all sitting around the Thanksgiving 78 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: dinner table Joe just a few months ago, and she's 79 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 3: trying to wipe out the whole family. And as investigators 80 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 3: are looking at this saying how did they die? You 81 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 3: know what happened here? And then they start looking back, Oh, 82 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 3: wait a minute, got this death in two thousand and seven? Yep, 83 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 3: allegedly a poisoning death of Mike Schmidt in October of 84 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 3: two thousand and seven. I'm thinking that maybe she was 85 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: planning on doing it at Thanksgiving and this was like 86 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 3: a warm up in October of two thousand and seven, 87 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: and he just got a hand. 88 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking. 89 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: Well, if you're trying to wipe out the whole lot 90 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: of people, when's the best time to do it? If 91 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: you're going to do it, you know, if you're not 92 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: going to go in guns blazing, the best time to 93 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: do it is when you have family gathering, right, you 94 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: get them all in one accord. Wow. This smacks of 95 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: the case that we covered several times out of Australia. 96 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: Remember oh gosh, yeah, the debt count death cap mushroom case. 97 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: Right wow? And we heard about that over and over 98 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: and over again, didn't we? And again that was a 99 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: collective event, right that wasn't And yeah, her if I 100 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: remember in that case her husband had got deathly ill. 101 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: And remember they kind of pulled him back from the brink. 102 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: I think he had to go through a bowel resection 103 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: and all these other things. But here we're talking about 104 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: a particular type of agent. I think the correct pronunciation 105 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: is a sey a setyl nitral and that was application 106 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: and Essentially, what this does is it is methyl uh cyanide, 107 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: and it's. 108 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: Not as methyl cyanide. 109 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, methyl cyanide. Yeah, And so methyl is a type 110 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: of uh, a type of alcohol. Remember we had the 111 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: uh methanol poisonings. Yeah, the methanol poisonings. Uh. What was 112 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: the name of that that liquor. It was like a 113 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: lemon drop or something, remember, And they had pre bottled it. 114 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: As opposed to using ethyl alcohol, which is what our 115 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: uh which is what our our alcohol or drinking alcohol 116 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: is made out, they used methyl which is you know, 117 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: incompatible with life. Yeah. You combine that molecule along with cyanide, 118 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: and it's a real double punch with With this particular agent, though, 119 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: you find it being used in a variety of of 120 00:07:54,200 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: of industries, including the manufacture of oh lithium batteries, lithium batteries. 121 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: So you know, I think my big question is how 122 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: did they narrow this down? And uh, where in the 123 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: heck did you get it from? I think that that's 124 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, from a sourcing standpoint. What was the year, 125 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: By the way, if you could go back and tell 126 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: me what was the year of this This other gentleman 127 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: that does October. 128 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: Two thousand and seven. 129 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: Wasn't that a fire? Wasn't that involved? I think it 130 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: was a fire, house fire, if I'm not mistaken, and 131 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:39,599 Speaker 1: they found they found cyanide in his system. If if 132 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm not, if I'm not misremembering, I love that term. 133 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to try to integrate that more into my 134 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: uh into my vernacular. Hang on, let me just verify that, Yeah, 135 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: it was in a house fire, Michael Michael Schmidt. You 136 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: wanna hear something kind of wild, and you know, I'm 137 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: always going to lay something wild on you most of 138 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: the time when you have a fire in either a 139 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: car or a home. Did you know that when plastic burns, 140 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: because it's a combo of a lot of different things, 141 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: did you know that one of the elements that's kind 142 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: of thrown out of off of house fires is actually cyanide. 143 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: So when you go to pull the tox, when you 144 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: go to pull the tox on a body that has 145 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: been involved in a fire, you'll find traces of cyanide 146 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: in a system. And I really wonder could she have 147 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: been that sophisticated to know what we do in the 148 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: morgue and what you find in a house fire. If 149 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: she can mimic that and put that to cyanide poisoning. 150 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: How do you differentiate that? You see, I'm kind of 151 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: thinking out loud here because you have to come up 152 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: with with a baseline of how much cyanide an individual 153 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: normally uptakes in a house fire. And I think that 154 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: that would be really really hard, not just to quantify, 155 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: but even to qualify because every everything is going to 156 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: be different. You know, if they're if they're in a 157 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: home that is primarily would as opposed to You've got 158 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: plastic chairs everywhere, You've got plastic tables, plastic utensils, Your 159 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: TV has got a plastic frame on it. All of 160 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: that stuff is going to produce cyanide. So I don't 161 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: know if you could come up with a baseline for that, 162 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: and then how do you separate that out from acute poisoning. 163 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: Poisoners are just they're fascinating to me, and most of 164 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: them have to have access for a delivery method. I'm 165 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: thinking you know who I'm thinking about right now, Dave 166 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: Is and Jed Lyles. We did that case and that 167 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: was hang on what was that it was Andrew poisoning? 168 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: Right? 169 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: And was that it was that strip nine that was 170 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: in there was it? I can't remember. Yeah, they've reformulated. 171 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: You can still buy Android, but yeah, it doesn't have 172 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: this stuff in it. And you know what does she do? 173 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: She owned a restaurant, Dave. And this is not unlike 174 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: the history of this lady that's accused. 175 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: We've got she actually owned a restaurant. And we're talking 176 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 3: about Henderson County, North Carolina. Now that is in the 177 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 3: western part of the state. If you if you go 178 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 3: to Charlotte, turned left, okay, going west. And and the 179 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 3: reason I say that is those of you who follow crime, 180 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 3: you know that in Henderson, North Carolina, Buttoner Federal Prison 181 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 3: is located there. Well, that's about fifty miles north of Rawleigh. Okay, 182 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 3: that's Henderson Town, Henderson County, western North Carolina. 183 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: Now we have our suson. 184 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: Let me ask you something real quick. Is this near Asheville? 185 00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 186 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: Is it approximating that that kind of area. 187 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: For fode, Yeah, that's where we are. 188 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: Okay. 189 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 2: So what we have here, what we're dealing with here. 190 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 3: Is good run Linda Jean Casper Lighting Coogle, who about 191 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 3: ten years ago or so, she actually owned a restaurant 192 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 3: called Patent Public House and Patent Public House was a 193 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: restaurant in Henderson that actually became a problem and ended 194 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 3: up in the local news after a bunch of employees 195 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: raised concerns about payroll problems and management disputes and other 196 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 3: things that they just said were wrong. And I'll tell 197 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 3: you when a small business, a restaurant has issues with 198 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: employees that get so severe they go to the local news, 199 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: you got big problems. She lost the business soon thereafter. 200 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 3: No criminal charges filed in that one, and she denied 201 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 3: doing anything wrong at the time, blaming payroll issues somebody else. 202 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 3: It was accounting, That's who it was. Meanwhile, we've got 203 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 3: forward ten years. You're sitting around the Thanksgiving table. You 204 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 3: drink wine with your meal. You've got your mom, two sisters, 205 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 3: and a boyfriend, and all three, both sisters and the 206 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: boyfriend all gets sick. You mentioned the two thousand and 207 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 3: seven fire, and we can go back to that in 208 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 3: a minute, because that was a different you know, you're 209 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 3: talking about a separation of eighteen years pretty much between 210 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 3: the death in two thousand and seven and the recent 211 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: deaths that are still being dealt with. My shock here, though, Joe, 212 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 3: is you've got a person who you've got a person 213 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 3: who's sitting at the Thanksgiving dinner table with their loved ones, 214 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 3: and you've got your daughter, who, by the way, Leila 215 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: Livas has an NBA from Western Carolina University. She is 216 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 3: one of these people who's really smart everybody likes. And 217 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: I'm thinking, she's sitting at your table and you're serving 218 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 3: her wine that you have put this industrial cleaner or 219 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 3: whatever it is is industrial chemical And how do you 220 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 3: even find out what chemical to put into wine? Joseph 221 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 3: Scott Morgan. They can kill somebody. 222 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, not at the table, but it would it 223 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: would have demanded some understanding or contact with the industries 224 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: because this is it also can be used as a solvent. 225 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: So you have to track back and begin to think, 226 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, where in the world could you access this? 227 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: Did she grab an amount all the way back? I 228 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: don't know how many decades would that be as two 229 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: decades ago and kind of squirrel it away where no 230 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: one else knew about it, And how does she come 231 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: in contact with it? It is used as a solvent. I 232 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: don't really understand the utility of it. If you gave 233 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: me time to study, I probably could. As far as 234 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: how it is used in the and it says specifically 235 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: in the manufacturing of lithium batteries. That's certainly something that 236 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: you would you would try to think of, you know, like, okay, 237 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: I'll give you for instance. You know, uh, if you're 238 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: working a service industry and you uh say, you have 239 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: a restaurant, Okay, you come in contact with all kinds 240 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: of people, right, Okay, what if there's a factory up 241 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: there that's manufacturing lithium battery somewhere and you know she 242 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: here just overhears uh someone say, you say, away from 243 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: the stuff is really really deadly. All it would take 244 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: is an Internet search, uh, you know, to go through 245 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: there and say, well, give me some examples of this 246 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: compound being used, you know as and does it show up? 247 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: You know, do you get a response, an automatic response 248 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: physiologically from the individual. What is their physiological response? How 249 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: did oh? Well, okay, so you have it. You have 250 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: it both in the acute form the acute form of exposure, 251 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: like you get cyanide on board in the acute stage 252 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: and when when that, when that happened happens. The symptomology 253 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: itself can be you know, kind of a weakness. Uh. 254 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: You can have confusion, bizarre behavior, these sorts of things. Now, 255 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: if you're slow dosing somebody, you know, like where you're 256 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: just kind of giving them uh drips and drabs of 257 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: the stuff, and you have access to their food, you'll 258 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: begin to see things like it will appear that the 259 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: individual is losing their mind on many levels. It's kind 260 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: of a progression. You'll also see nervous tremors, chronic headaches, 261 00:16:53,440 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: you can see some uh uh digestive issues relative to pain, 262 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: and over over a period of time, both eventually leads 263 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: you to the same path, which is in fact coma. 264 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: I'm kind of left scratching my head, you know, relative 265 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: to this case, Dave, you know you you you plant 266 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: it out, You plant it out. And when I say 267 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: plant it out, you plan out. You know, your your 268 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: uh your Thanksgiving meal, right, Okay, so we're going to 269 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: have a full array. I always think of the what 270 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: is that the cornucopia, you know, uh, and what is 271 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: it that they use that that big horn. Remember they'd 272 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: have them hanging up in our classrooms when we were kids, 273 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: and they have like all kinds of fruits and vegetables 274 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: pouring out of it. A cornicopia. I don't know what 275 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: that's called. You think about all these meals that you're 276 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: going to prepare, you know, sweep tape pie, pecan pie, 277 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: and it's pecan not pecan. And just so you know, 278 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: some people say pecan pecan is something you keep under 279 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: the bed. You'll get that later. And pumpkin pie. You know, 280 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: I mean, all these things you're planning. Oh and by 281 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: the way, I've got a bottle of wine here. It's 282 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: corked and not cork That means that you've dropped the 283 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: cork into the bottle, but the cork is still in dwelling. 284 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: Can I get a syringe to inject the stuff in? 285 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: Because I know I can see behind your eyes right now, Dave, 286 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: I know what you're wondering. You're wondering, would you be aware? 287 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: Would you be aware the stuff is around? Can you 288 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: smell it? Can you smell it? Can you see it? 289 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: Can taste it? And the answer to that is no, no, 290 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 1: and no wow. And that's why it's one of those 291 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: things where it's like the poisoner's poison, right. You know, 292 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: it's like if you're going to get in under the 293 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: wire to use a military metaphor there and get into 294 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,479 Speaker 1: their space with stuff. You're not going to know it. 295 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,719 Speaker 1: You're just you're not going to know. All of a sudden, 296 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: everybody starts to feel really ill. Can you imagine sitting 297 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: there and you're having a I don't know whatever your 298 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: preference of one one is. I love Merlow, So I 299 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: got my glass mer Low. I'm just slowly sipping it. 300 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: Fires blazing. You know, we're up in Western Carolina, got 301 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: mountains in the background. You know, I've enjoyed my meal, 302 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, everybody in the house is 303 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: like grabbing their head because it feels like it's going 304 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: to explode. They're having difficulty breathing, they've got tremors. Oh, 305 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: and one person drops to the floor and has a seizure. 306 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: Can you imagine the horror of that? Wow? And how 307 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: do you how do you explain that? I think when 308 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: because you've put a big target on yourself, Dave, just 309 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: from the scene itself, when e MT rolls in, Okay, 310 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: you're running the risk of this. I'm not saying it's 311 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: necessarily the way it went down, but let's just say 312 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: that you've decided to acutely and that means in the 313 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: immediate and it's going to be a large dose. You've 314 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: acutely in this in this context, decided to poison everybody 315 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: in the stinking house. As they used to say, You've 316 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: got some splaining to do, mane you know, because how 317 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: do you explain it when the wagon comes rolling up 318 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: to get these people out of here, to get them 319 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: to treatment, and they're all presenting with the same symptomology. 320 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: But she ain't, you know, how did you escape this? 321 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: You see where I'm going with this, and I can 322 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: because you know, this just has happened this past Thanksgiving, Dave. 323 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: I'm really wondering, man, if this put the authorities on 324 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: to the scent of her, if you will. 325 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 3: Well, you know, Okay, the first thing that happened when 326 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 3: they go to the house and they eat. 327 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: And nobody gets sick. 328 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 3: At the table Thanksgiving dinner, everybody eats and it's a 329 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 3: way Homer. 330 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: Okay. 331 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 3: As we look at what takes place in the hours 332 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 3: after they eat and have the wine. We've got Leela 333 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 3: Levas who dies her symptoms. But she doesn't die right away, Joe, 334 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 3: she dies a week later, Mia Lacey. Now we got 335 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 3: Leela's sister Mia and MEA's boyfriend Richard. Okay, now, Mia 336 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 3: and Richard both got sick that night, Thanksgiving night. They're 337 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: on the phone, Hey Ma, I'm sick. We're throwing up, 338 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 3: you know me, And while Leela's getting even worse. So 339 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 3: you've got all three or sick. They call her mom. 340 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 3: She apparently isn't sick. But Mia and Richard survive. Leela doesn't. 341 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 3: Leela Elivas, thirty two years old now dies. When they 342 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 3: start investigating, because what's going to happen, Joe, when somebody 343 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: presents with these types of symptoms at the hospital? Yeah, 344 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 3: what are you going to be doing to try and 345 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 3: treat the individual? First of all, because immediately you want 346 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 3: to read whatever is going on. You want to reverse 347 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 3: the negative effects of what's happening in their body. So 348 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 3: are you going to draw blood? 349 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: Are urine? What are you going to do to try 350 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: to find out what's going on? 351 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah you would, because you're going to do a 352 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: full spectrum of full spectrum screening of them on any 353 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: of their bodily fluids in a hospital. Of course, that's 354 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: going to come down to blood and blood and urine. 355 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: Of course, for us in the morgue's a bit more 356 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: robust because we'll draw bile out of the out of 357 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: the gallbladder and will draw vitreous fluid out of the eye. 358 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: And obviously it's something you can't do with a living 359 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: and we're going to run screening in the post morning. 360 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: But now you're you're doing this as a diagnostic. You're 361 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: trying to decide and you know, most of the time 362 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: when people present at the hospital, it's kind of the standard. 363 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: Fair I think that a lot of clinicians are looking 364 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: at you know, they're not necessarily thinking cyanide poisoning, right, Okay, 365 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: it's just not I'm not saying it's not on the radar, 366 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: but it's it's not. It's more eccentric than it is 367 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: concentric relative to your diagnoses. Now, there's certain things that 368 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: that you can look for as as a person that 369 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: does does UH diagnostics. With cyanide, the skin will actually 370 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: take on and you find this with carbon monoxide as well. 371 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: The skin will take on a pink to cherry pink coloration. UH. 372 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: You can have increase or rapid respirations, and there are 373 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: there been some cases where individuals might present with rashes. 374 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:16,959 Speaker 2: UH. 375 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: You'll see some you know, changes or presentations on the skin. 376 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: I've heard of that most of the time, there's some 377 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: stuff you're gonna be looking at. It's going to be 378 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, upset, upset stomach, and it's 379 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: not It's not just like upset, I'm nauseated. It's like crippling, 380 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,959 Speaker 1: like your your bowels so like they're they're on fire. 381 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: You get the dizziness, you know, all of the disorientation. Uh, 382 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: you can't have seizures, vomiting, these sorts of things. So 383 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: if you think about just those little points of triage 384 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: right there, well, what else you know, could it point 385 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: to anything else? You know, if you're just looking diagnostically, 386 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: the trick it's going to be how broad a spectrum 387 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: is there going to be? You know, with the toxicology 388 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: screening that they're going to do at the hospital, is 389 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: it as robust as something, say, for instance, we would 390 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: do at the Mork And I think one of the 391 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: interesting things here is that after you have these individuals 392 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: that are presenting, we've got two people that we know 393 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: of that survived right from this incident and did where 394 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: they picked up and taken to the same hospital, even 395 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: though they might live in different locations. You've got two 396 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: people that are presenting with the same symptomology and we're 397 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: having to treat them. There's a course of treatment that 398 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: you do to counteract the effects of the cyanide. We 399 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: have one individual that is deceased. I wonder where the 400 00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: interest are the not interest? I wonder where the answers here, 401 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: because are you are you going to be looking at 402 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: these two survivors as your primary source of information and 403 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: you're going to look at the one that is deceased. 404 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: You know when you get that individual back to the morgue, 405 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: this daughter and again, you know you might not see 406 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: it in a manifest presentation. With the unaided I with 407 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: a body, they're still going to have to wait for 408 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: talks to come in and confirm this sinide itself. You know, 409 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: it'll set in in various regions of the body if 410 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: it's not metabolized out. And there are a lot of 411 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: people that work around sinide and half for years and 412 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: years because it's used in a variety of of of 413 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: pursuits UH in industry, and they you carry around certain 414 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: levels of it. I think that we probably all carry 415 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: around certain trace trace elements of cyanide, you know, in 416 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: our system, but they're not at lethal levels. Our bodies 417 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: will compensate for it. So you have to get that 418 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: acute blast into the system that's going to take you 419 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: down today. So Dave, it would appear, it would appear 420 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: that the accused did, in fact do some Internet searches 421 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: in this particular case, didn't. 422 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 3: She Yes, you know, in this day and age, Joe, 423 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: you and I talk about digital forensics in almost every 424 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 3: show now, and whenever you've got whenever you've got somebody 425 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 3: that's kind of a lightning rod, And apparently Mss Casper 426 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 3: Lightning Google is that person. Having owned a bunch of 427 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 3: different businesses across the country, has opened a bunch of 428 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 3: German pubs across the country, so she says, has been 429 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 3: in the local news for not treating employees properly and 430 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 3: things like that. So people know who she is. And 431 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 3: now she's got three people deathly ill. One dies after 432 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 3: eating dinner with her, and oh, she's not sick. So 433 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 3: they start looking. They being law enforcement, we got to 434 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 3: figure out what's going on here because we got poison 435 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 3: in the system of these individuals who wait with you. 436 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 2: And what do they find. 437 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 3: When they go to a search of her electronics, Well, 438 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: they find out that she did a Google search of 439 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 3: what happens if I accidentally ingest? How do you say 440 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 3: that a citron nitral? 441 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: Oh? 442 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: Oh, a seuto nitral? 443 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? Thanks? 444 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 3: And then and also does wine turn into cyanide? So 445 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: she's got a game plan here, and she's trying to 446 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: figure out, Okay, if I drink some of this, what 447 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 3: happens if I accidentally What can I do to reverse 448 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 3: the effects for me? Because obviously think about this. Can 449 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 3: you imagine what Nancy Grace would do with this if 450 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 3: she was prosecutor? Okay, so your defendant actually knew there's 451 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 3: poison in there, she knows what it is, and she's 452 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 3: serving it to her daughter's and daughter boyfriend. And yet 453 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 3: she's making sure that in case she accidentally SIPs. 454 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 2: Too much, that she can make sure she survives. 455 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 3: I mean, now, this has not gone to trial yet, 456 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 3: it's not been adjudicated. These are just accusations at this point, 457 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 3: but fact remains. That is what she says, what happens 458 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 3: if I accidentally just this poison? 459 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: You know, you think about it. I don't know. I 460 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: have to go back to the human element here, and 461 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: being a father, I'm thinking, who in the world would 462 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: set out to poison, poison your kin folks like this. 463 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: You know, if you've got a beef with one person 464 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: in your family, I'm not just fine poisoning. But you 465 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: target one individual that you have a problem with, you've 466 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: had problems with them from a year and year. That's 467 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: not what this is. This is a shotgun approach. Again. 468 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: I go, I think, well, did she just say there's 469 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: one person in the group I want to get rid of? 470 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: So I'm going to take the shotgun approach and poison everybody? 471 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I have to, you know, 472 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: I have to think like that as an investigator. Was 473 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: there a specific person targeted? I think the investigators here 474 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: are going to begin to really dig into her past. 475 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: Well that's exactly what happened, Joe. 476 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean they have to. 477 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 3: You mentioned the fire earlier, and I thought this was 478 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 3: fascinating when you were talking about this, because all right, 479 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 3: you've got one person dead, two others really sick, almost 480 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 3: dying after eating with this woman. And as they feel 481 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 3: that they find out, well they've got cyanide in their bodies, 482 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: you know what does that? They're tracing it back chemically 483 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 3: and they all has anybody else died? By the way, Joe, 484 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 3: they're researching everybody who's had a meal with this woman 485 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 3: at her house. Oh god's terrifying because you go back 486 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 3: to two thousand and seven and you've got a man, 487 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 3: Michael Schmid, who a guy who, by the way, only 488 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 3: months earlier, had signed over property to her. Here, you 489 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: can have the condo, you have the apartment or whatever, 490 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 3: this property. Okay, he gives it to her, and then 491 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 3: all of a sudden there's a fire, but he dies 492 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: of poison. I mean, there's a lot going on with 493 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 3: that case, which is now opened back up because of 494 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 3: the recent poisoning. So she very well might have been 495 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 3: doing that might have been a that could have been 496 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 3: the first time she tried it in two thousand and seven. 497 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, let's okay, let's just look at 498 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: it this way is and this is I guess, maybe 499 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: this is very existential. So she goes back two years, 500 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: I mean, two decades, and poisons this one guy. It worked, then. 501 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: Got away with it. 502 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: So was she doing this to play out deaths of 503 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: other people in the future. That just rubbed her the 504 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: wrong way, And you think of the Listen, if I'm 505 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: an investigator, dude, I'm going to do such a thorough 506 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: background check on this lady. I want to know if 507 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: there was anybody else that came in contact with her 508 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: in the service industry that had that. Suddenly, you know, 509 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: after her shadow passed across them, you know, she began 510 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: they began having seizures, all right. They began having I 511 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: don't know, skin rashes and skin color changes, and I 512 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: don't know some of the reactions that you get with 513 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: cyanide exposure. Had says happen to anybody else and it 514 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: just wasn't successful. These are big, big questions, you know, 515 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: that you have to ask, and it winds up at 516 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: least according to the police at this point in time, 517 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: because they've charged her. She's not convicted, but this thing's 518 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: got legs for them obviously and for the prosecutor. What 519 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: is it that brought this thing to a head at 520 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: this particular moment in time. Was she angry at the 521 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: collective of them? Or was it one person? Was she 522 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: striking out at these individuals that maybe you know, she sees, 523 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: is on one level more successful than her. They don't 524 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: have her trials and tribulations. It was it monetarily motivated? 525 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: I have no idea. I mean, it's just so the 526 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: fact that she would utilize this methodology to take these 527 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: lives or damage these lives. These people are going to 528 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: have long term effects the ones that survive here relative 529 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: to the cyanide poisoning. So I think the big question 530 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: that investigatively is going back in time seeing if she's 531 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: had contact with anybody else sourcing. How did she source 532 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: this stuff? Where did she get it from? Because I'm 533 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: not going to go down you know, Ace is the place. 534 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: But Ace is not going to sell me this stuff. Man, 535 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 1: you know a Hartware story. Yeah, it's just it's not 536 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: going to do it. Man. Yeah, I can't walk in 537 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: and draw that kind of attention. Is it something that 538 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: she you know, uh, bought over the inner zones out 539 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: there somewhere in the digital world. 540 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:22,479 Speaker 3: I'm looking at this thinking it's a delayed poisonous attack. Okay, Yeah, 541 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 3: So it's colorless, it's clear liquid, and it's got a 542 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 3: sweet ethereal odor is how that's described. She gets it 543 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 3: in the white. Now, by the way, she's accused of 544 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 3: poisoning four people, two of whom died, who survived, because 545 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 3: they're including the two thousand and seven death of Michael 546 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 3: Schmidt as a part of this now, and I'm just wondering, 547 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 3: how does one go about researching and planning the death 548 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 3: the murders of people that you share your life with, 549 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 3: that you actually brought into this world. It reminds me 550 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 3: of the little joke I brought you into this world, Junior, 551 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 3: I can take you out out. Well, you're talking about 552 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 3: you're you're really talking about one of the worst possible What. 553 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 2: Is a mattress side? 554 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 3: Is that what it's called when the no, that's when 555 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 3: a child kills a mother's mattre's side. What's it called 556 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 3: when mom decides to kill the adult children? You know, 557 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 3: talking about little chldren. You're talking about adults who are 558 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 3: on their own, adults who are successfully As you pointed out, 559 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm don't. 560 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: Know what terminology, but I see where you're going here, 561 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: because this is a very It's look, it doesn't get 562 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: any more personal than family. Okay, Look, it doesn't get 563 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: any more personal than family. And when you look at 564 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: the profile of these individuals, I'm wondering, what is what's 565 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: the connective tissue here, you know, regarding regarding someone that 566 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: would want to do this to these individuals, you know, 567 00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: I have I have no idea. And also I got 568 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: to tell you when this thing does go to trial, 569 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: this is going to be fascinating to watch because if 570 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: it does make it to trial, I always have to 571 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: put that caveat in there. This is going to be 572 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: a battle of the toxicologist, which is something that you 573 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: don't get to see that often. 574 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 3: Is it possible that this chemical could get into the 575 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 3: wine in a very innocent way, because maybe she got 576 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 3: some in her too. 577 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just curious here that. 578 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: Okay, maybe uses let me clean her. 579 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 3: Pots and pans, and she's a little concerned, okay, and 580 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 3: that's all. You know, there's an innocent explanation for these 581 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 3: Google searches on this really odd poison that turns into cyanide. 582 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: Well, if the defense is going to postulate on that, 583 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: my question would be okay, so where's her blood work? 584 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: Did you having bitril blood? Did you you know, is 585 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: there any testing that you did relatives, you know, to 586 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: prove in fact that she had it in her? Who 587 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: did the testing? 588 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 3: The mushroom lady in Australia said she did get sick. Oh, 589 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 3: I didn't go to the hospital, but I was just 590 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 3: as sick as everybody else. 591 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: Remember that. Yep. Yeah. So I don't know, brother, I 592 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 1: think about this, and you know, I'm thinking, well, what 593 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: what will the toxic collegists have to say about that? 594 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: And she's look, they're going to put up a state 595 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: tax cologist. Okay, you know, Uh, the state crime Lab 596 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: in North Carolina's fantastic, by the way. I mean, it's 597 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: a it's a great organization, very professional, and they're going 598 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: to do a full court press on this. This is 599 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: a well, if you look at it, this is a 600 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: multiple homicide as well as as assault. I don't know 601 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: if they have in in North Carolina part of their 602 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: their statute, but you know, is it uh attempted attempted murder. 603 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 3: She's charged with two counts of first degree murder, two 604 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 3: counts of attempted first agree and then multiple counts of 605 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 3: distributing a prohibited food or beverage. As I said, she 606 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 3: is charged with the two thousand murder of Michael Schmidt, 607 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 3: now charged with the murder of her daughter Leela Elvas 608 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 3: and the attemptive murder of her other daughter Mia Lazy 609 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 3: and MEA's boyfriend Richard peg Joe. What kind of death. 610 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 3: Would it be, I mean. 611 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: It would be, it would be absolutely horrific. I think 612 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: the thing that I'm looking at here is that the 613 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: individual over peer Tom begins to present with really unusual behavior. 614 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: You've got these tremendous headaches that come along with us. 615 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: This stuff really impacts the neurological system and there will 616 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: be ongoing seizures as well. So this is not some 617 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, good night, sweet Prince kind 618 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 1: of thing. You know, some fairy tale where they sip 619 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: on something and they just kind of drift off into 620 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: the darkness. It's not like that. Uh, this would have 621 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: been very painful. And listen, this is going to be 622 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: talked about in court. This is going to be talked 623 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: about in court. They're going to talk about the inflammation 624 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: in the airway. They're going to talk about the information 625 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 1: and how raw the esophagus was. They're going to talk about, 626 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, all of the symptomology that you see that's 627 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: associated with with cinide poisoning. You couple that with what 628 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: you have detailed, you know, these counts that she's been 629 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: hooked up on that has an element of premeditation, right, Yeah, David, 630 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: got to tell you, brother this sounds like a capital case, 631 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: it really does. I mean, if this ain't capital, if 632 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: this isn't capital homicides here, if these aren't capital homicides, 633 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:57,720 Speaker 1: I really don't know what is. Because you've got premeditative event, 634 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: you have to prepare, you have to access the and 635 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: you have to wait till the right time. You have 636 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: to deliver the poison into the wine. You have to 637 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: ensure that they all drink the poison. At the end 638 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: of the day. It paints a very very grim picture. 639 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: But you know what else is more grim than this 640 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: is that two lives have been lost, allegedly at the 641 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: hand of this woman. You've got two other individuals that 642 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:32,919 Speaker 1: have been severely injured, and for whatever it's worth, you've 643 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: got a family, tragically that has been completely decimated. I'm 644 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags