Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: All right, Jason timp is about to stop by for
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Speaker 2: I use it. You should too, all right. It is
Speaker 2: customary Sunday night. You hear it mostly on Monday morning.
Speaker 2: Jason Timph podcast as Hoops Tonight. You know it's interesting.
Speaker 2: Schedules can matter. NFL will release their schedule on Wednesday,
Speaker 2: and I think it's a big deal. We all know
Speaker 2: who everybody plays already, but it's the order. For instance,
Speaker 2: playing in Denver high altitude in September when you're coming
Speaker 2: out of camp. His oha has been tough. Playing Andy
Speaker 2: Reid in September tough. Some of the defensive coaches experiment
Speaker 2: more offensively early. Belichick never had a great September so
Speaker 2: and also back to back to back tough games, road games.
Speaker 2: You know, Miami would prefer to never go into Buffalo
Speaker 2: with two as a quarterback in December and January. They'd
Speaker 2: love to get that game out. And you know September
Speaker 2: October when the weather's great, so there are absolute you know,
Speaker 2: Dome teams. They don't want to play December January games
Speaker 2: up north. When the league had a gap between games
Speaker 2: two and three, Denver Minnesota, and it hurts Minnesota's momentum,
Speaker 2: and it gives Denver time to prepare. You get that
Speaker 2: extra film session or three. It's a totally different team.
Speaker 2: I mean, there was they were Denver was so bad defensively,
Speaker 2: so lethargic. Now it's almost like Denver saying, let ant
Speaker 2: get his he's gonna get forty. We're not gonna stop him,
Speaker 2: and let's shut down the other dudes. But I mean,
Speaker 2: it does feel like to me that that time, an
Speaker 2: extra day or two here for a really smart veteran
Speaker 2: team and a good staff feels so substantial.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Minnesota came out with pretty bad energy in Game three,
Speaker 1: and himself admitted it after the game, He's like, I
Speaker 1: came out with low energy. The meanwhile, for three consecutive days,
Speaker 1: Denver had to sit around and listen to everyone talk
Speaker 1: shit about them, Like literally, it was like they just
Speaker 1: got humiliated for three consecutive days. And you know, I
Speaker 1: said after Game two, it wasn't really a about basketball
Speaker 1: to me. I thought that Minnesota brought a level of
Speaker 1: physicality that Denver had not seen really at all in
Speaker 1: the previous five rounds that they had played in the postseason.
Speaker 1: And I thought they got a little caught off guard
Speaker 1: by it, and specifically in Game two, they crumbled mentally
Speaker 1: in a way that they never had before. Right, And honestly,
Speaker 1: do you remember in Game three at the beginning that
Speaker 1: play when Anthony Edwards was messing with his shoulder for
Speaker 1: like thirty seconds. That was the first play of the game.
Speaker 1: And on that play, Nikola Jokic just rocked him with
Speaker 1: the screen, just like a super super hard screen. And
Speaker 1: when I went back and looked over the film in
Speaker 1: that game, like really all that happened was Denver did
Speaker 1: all the same things that they have done all season.
Speaker 1: They just did him harder, faster, with more force. They
Speaker 1: finally met the physical confrontation. And when they did, you
Speaker 1: found out pretty quickly they can still score on these guys.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's not like Jamal hasn't seen a lengthy
Speaker 1: perimeter defender before. Of course he has. It's not like
Speaker 1: Jokic hasn't seen two centers on the floor before. Of
Speaker 1: course he has. They've all seen that before. They just
Speaker 1: didn't handle it well. And then the big one here,
Speaker 1: And this is something that I called out before the series,
Speaker 1: and I really was surprised that it took this long.
Speaker 1: But Minnesota is a mediocre offense.
Speaker 2: No listen, Anthony, because Anthony, that's what I think Denver
Speaker 2: looked at and said, just give Anne this forty. They
Speaker 2: have a lot of very good athletes and length. But
Speaker 2: if Karl Anthony Towns like tonight is just kind of
Speaker 2: just wandering. There's not really a second scoring option on
Speaker 2: this team. There really isn't. So you need Towns, who's
Speaker 2: always been to me talented but a little flaky, a
Speaker 2: little inconsistent, you know what I mean. Like Anthony Davis
Speaker 2: gives you the same defense every game, Karl, Anthony Towns,
Speaker 2: who was more gifted offensively, should be as good offensively
Speaker 2: as Anthony Davis as defensively. He's not get you just
Speaker 2: get he's lost. And I thought, in this game, what
Speaker 2: are we doing here? And when he doesn't deliver, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what ants An could score fifty. I mean,
Speaker 2: Jordan was scoring sixty three and they couldn't beat the Celtics. Like,
Speaker 2: so I do think Denver just said, listen, we're not
Speaker 2: going to stop this kid and make everybody else work.
Speaker 2: And I think your point is right is that if
Speaker 2: Towns is off, it's an athletic team. They're long, they
Speaker 2: almost have an extra wing defender and one less shooter
Speaker 2: than they need.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, and like it really comes down to this.
Speaker 1: They were a mediocre offense all season long, and then
Speaker 1: they've got a bunch of these streaky guys, guys like Cat,
Speaker 1: guys like Nikaile Alexander Walker, guys like nas Reed who
Speaker 1: like are capable of playing at a higher level offensively,
Speaker 1: but Phoenix couldn't really play them out of that. Denver's
Speaker 1: lackadaisical defensive effort in the first two games couldn't play
Speaker 1: that play them out of that. But as soon as
Speaker 1: Denver tightened the screws, Hat fell apart, Mikail, Alexander Walker
Speaker 1: fell apart, nas Reed fell apart, like in immediately, Rudy
Speaker 1: Gobert looks like a damaging offensive player because he's got
Speaker 1: stone hands and he can't like make quick decisions when
Speaker 1: he catches on the roll, and so like, literally, Minnesota
Speaker 1: looked like regular season Minnesota. If anything, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: really impressive that ant is demonstrating his leap is for real,
Speaker 1: and specifically on the Karl Anthony Towns front. You know this,
Speaker 1: Carl Carltown's reminds me of a specific type of player
Speaker 1: I've seen several times in NBA history. The most recent
Speaker 1: example kind of reminds me of Kevin Love. And obviously
Speaker 1: Kat has a better pedigree, but like it's like the
Speaker 1: big scoring like kind of hybrid big, but one that's
Speaker 1: not actually that superior of an athlete compared to his peers, right,
Speaker 1: and the and that can shoot. And so what happens
Speaker 1: is during the eighty two game regular season, they get
Speaker 1: their twenty five points a night because they can bully
Speaker 1: smaller players and they can hit threes. But every every
Speaker 1: single time, Kevin Love would run into a really big
Speaker 1: athletic forward, someone like a Thaddeus Young or a Draymond Green,
Speaker 1: and just render Kevin Love into a spot up shooter.
Speaker 1: And then and then everyone be like, oh, Lebron, make
Speaker 1: Kevin Love a spot up shooter. It's like, actually, that's
Speaker 1: all he can do when you reach these super high
Speaker 1: levels of intensity. Aaron Gordon demolished Carl Towns tonight, which
Speaker 1: is just completely just snatched his so much better. He's
Speaker 1: a much better athlete, exactly. It's like the un it's
Speaker 1: like the guy who's a little bit shorter but stronger,
Speaker 1: more athletic, kind of like Draymond or that he's young,
Speaker 1: like I was talking about Kevin Love. They can beat
Speaker 1: Carl Towns to spots and so make it so that
Speaker 1: he can't drive. And then if he can't drive, he's
Speaker 1: suddenly just a shooter, and it's like with the shots
Speaker 1: start going in, then his impact craters, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: like there's another conversation to be had. I mean, you
Speaker 1: you even when Minnesota was playing, well, we're pointing out, like,
Speaker 1: is Karl Anthony town still going to be here in
Speaker 1: the future, And it's like there's a there's a there's
Speaker 1: a real conversation to be had about the team build
Speaker 1: of Minnesota in the sense that Carl Anthony Towns is
Speaker 1: what he is. He's never going to become a super
Speaker 1: reliable secondary shot creator. You can't let it go out
Speaker 1: there by himself every night. Is the only guy who
Speaker 1: can get to his spots and create shots. So I
Speaker 1: don't know what they do about that in the long run,
Speaker 1: but tonight was at the last two games. This is
Speaker 1: not game one two of a series where you're feeling
Speaker 1: each other out. Everyone knows exactly what everyone's good and
Speaker 1: bad at right now, and nobody on Minnesota can score
Speaker 1: except for Aunt, and that's a major problem.
Speaker 2: Well and also, I mean, Yokichen Aunt are transcended, so
Speaker 2: to some degree, you know, going into a game, you're
Speaker 2: giving up thirty plus you know Bird, you know, Jordan Kobe,
Speaker 2: some guys are just like you've been in the gym,
Speaker 2: Like that guy's gonna get his The series really comes
Speaker 2: down to, like it's amazing Gordon versus Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, that's that's kind of what the series
Speaker 2: has come down to, because you can't new you can
Speaker 2: only do so much to neutralize a superstar in this sport,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden and again this is
Speaker 2: what champions do. We forget this. I remember a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago the Celtics played the Warriors in the
Speaker 2: finals and through the first couple of games of the series,
Speaker 2: through three games, Boston was so much better than Golden State,
Speaker 2: and you're like, Steve Kerr gets an extra day, there's
Speaker 2: preparation that go to Boston and you're like, who unplugged
Speaker 2: the electricity with a stomachs? Like what happened? And I
Speaker 2: think the mistake I make thinking Denver's cooked is you
Speaker 2: give these championship teams time. They're well coached. I mean,
Speaker 2: Malone's been there. I mean, if you forget, I mean
Speaker 2: he was like seven years in and they were just
Speaker 2: they just let it bake. I mean, there was no pressure.
Speaker 2: They couldn't win with Yokich for years. So this is
Speaker 2: a team that's you know, they've been through a lot
Speaker 2: of these battles. They've lost a lot of them in
Speaker 2: the early years, but they've had to make major adjustments.
Speaker 2: And you know, I rushed to judgment. I look at
Speaker 2: Denver now and I'm like, oh, this this is what
Speaker 2: I thought the series would look like, which is again,
Speaker 2: they would match their length and physicality and Jokis would
Speaker 2: just you know, Murray and Yokic are both elite scorers.
Speaker 2: So I will say this. I don't know why the
Speaker 2: media does this. They get so protective from people that
Speaker 2: don't need it. But Ant is spectacular, Like I always
Speaker 2: felt this about And I'm not saying he's Jordan, but
Speaker 2: he has some Jordan qualities. And that's okay. Mahomes you
Speaker 2: know they're talking about Kayleb Williams has Mahomes qualities. Yes
Speaker 2: he does. All the scouts are saying, hey, he plays
Speaker 2: like Patrick Mahomes. There are things about Aunt, but the
Speaker 2: most Jordan thing about him is I remember watching Jordan
Speaker 2: against Phoenix in his prime and I was sitting on
Speaker 2: the couch with a friend watching it and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's not the best shooter, the best ball hand, He's
Speaker 2: not the quickest guy in the league and he's six six.
Speaker 2: Why does it look like he's like the only Division
Speaker 2: IE player playing at the y Like it's like it.
Speaker 2: He makes it look so easy and gets past people
Speaker 2: on the first step. These are NBA athletes. He just
Speaker 2: gets past everybody. So when you watch it on TV,
Speaker 2: I don't think you would appreciate it, the ability to, Oh,
Speaker 2: everybody knows where he's going. He loves the first step,
Speaker 2: He sizes you up. He makes the game look easy.
Speaker 2: Mahomes does this, Jordan did this? Like what? Why? How
Speaker 2: I'm watching ant and even against good offenders. I mean
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray switched off to him one time. I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is not even competitive. Murray's a world class athlete.
Speaker 2: I mean, you've been in gyms with guys. But I
Speaker 2: look at this and I'm like, when guys start making
Speaker 2: thirty eight points look easy, there's about three in the
Speaker 2: league at any one time that can do that. Maybe one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's athletic and then there's athletic. Among the athletes.
Speaker 1: It's like an entirely different stratosphere, right, And like that's
Speaker 1: kind of to me the difference between like a Jason
Speaker 1: Tatum and an Anthony Edwards. Like Jason Tatum is a
Speaker 1: very good NBA athlete, like but like like, like he's
Speaker 1: in the he's close to that, like truly transcendent. But
Speaker 1: there's clearly a difference between ant sizing up an elite
Speaker 1: defender and beating him off the dribble and Tatum doing
Speaker 1: the same thing. It's like that next level of elite,
Speaker 1: top tier athleticism. Honestly, I regardless of what happens the
Speaker 1: rest of this series, and I do think Denver is
Speaker 1: gonna be gonna pull this out now. I think they've
Speaker 1: effectively just rendered Minnesota's offense useless and they're gonna go home,
Speaker 1: and I think they're gonna win Game five. And the
Speaker 1: biggest thing too, is like Minnesota hasn't been particularly competitive
Speaker 1: in either of these games, which is which is a
Speaker 1: major concern, right, But like, no matter what, it's very
Speaker 1: clear that Anthony Edwards is here to stay. I think
Speaker 1: he's the next guy in that like line of truly
Speaker 1: transcendent great American basketball players, Like it went from MJ
Speaker 1: to Kobe, and it went from Kobe to Lebron and
Speaker 1: like there have been guys along the way that have
Speaker 1: had their little moments, but nobody that really had the
Speaker 1: potential to take over the league for a long time.
Speaker 1: And can't you just see it, Colin, can't you just
Speaker 1: kind of imagine what the next ten years are like
Speaker 1: for Ams? You could just kind of imagine him continuing
Speaker 1: to ascend and getting better and better. I started to
Speaker 1: think tonight, like like if it could have pulled this
Speaker 1: game out, it could have been one of those transcendent
Speaker 1: moments you think about, like, you know, Lebron is in
Speaker 1: like two thousand and seven or two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and honestly, like Denver's just too good.
Speaker 1: That's really all it is. Like Lebron ran into the
Speaker 1: OA Spurs and got swept. So like, at a certain point,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how how good you are at that
Speaker 1: phase of your career. It is a team sport. And
Speaker 1: and like literally while all of his veteran teammates were
Speaker 1: falling apart, he was continuing to ascend. It was really impressive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and this is appropriate, Jordan couldn't get
Speaker 2: through a fully formed Pistons or Celtic dynasty, So I mean,
Speaker 2: Denver's fully formed, they have the experience, they're better offensively,
Speaker 2: they have Minnesota's length. So again, this is the way
Speaker 2: it works. It's the baby steps. He comes in, he
Speaker 2: pushes and makes a Denver you know, step back. They
Speaker 2: got hit in the gin. Oh we got you know,
Speaker 2: they dazed the champion and they lost. That's what happened
Speaker 2: to Jordan. That's what happens to Lebron. So to me,
Speaker 2: this is totally appropriate. We are amazed by the individual player,
Speaker 2: but they still have tweaking to do. I mean, we
Speaker 2: all know what Minnesota's gonna do in the off season.
Speaker 2: Are probably gonna move Karl Anthony Towns and they're gonna
Speaker 2: get They're gonna get more offensive players. I mean, eventually
Speaker 2: Jordan needed Pippin and Kerr, you know. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: you know, don't have to be a nightly great player,
Speaker 2: but you do have to find players that take something
Speaker 2: off Ant's plate a little bit.
Speaker 1: There has to be like Minnesota should go after KD.
Speaker 2: It's not terrible because again the great gift of KD.
Speaker 2: You can give him the ball eight seconds in the
Speaker 2: shot clock four, He'll get a great look. He doesn't need,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a little Klay Thompson, but obviously much better.
Speaker 2: He doesn't need the ball in his hands. That's why,
Speaker 2: that's why the Jalen bruns and Katie works. The emotional
Speaker 2: part of kde to the Knicks TIBs that style. You know,
Speaker 2: is he willing for it. Let's let's pivot to that,
Speaker 2: because listen, the Knicks are beat up. Nothing you can do.
Speaker 2: Just set the guys down, get ready for Tuesday. Be embarrassed.
Speaker 2: You know you'll be on fire Tuesday. So Og is hurt.
Speaker 2: Og got banged up this year as well. Brunson's not
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. We already know Mitchell Robbins and Julius
Speaker 2: Randall are out. So this is a limited team offensively
Speaker 2: without injuries. So we all kind of kept waiting for
Speaker 2: this team that was playing Game seven intensity to just
Speaker 2: just collapse. Just the wheels came off, and they sort
Speaker 2: of did. I still think they have a chance to
Speaker 2: win this series. But I was saying this earlier this week,
Speaker 2: and I said it last time I was on with you.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of different scenarios with the Knicks, and
Speaker 2: it's very easy to talk yourself into we're just a
Speaker 2: piece away, but the East is gonna get better. It's
Speaker 2: just gonna get better. Butler's gonna be healthy, Dame's gonna
Speaker 2: be healthy, Yannis will probably be back, and Beat'll get help.
Speaker 2: There's so many scenarios for the Knicks, and I do
Speaker 2: wonder if instead of looking at Kevin Durant and a
Speaker 2: Paul George, they just they find another og on the market,
Speaker 2: you know, they go get another really good player, because
Speaker 2: I do think, you know, playing hard, maybe it has
Speaker 2: limitations if you fade. I don't think they can beat
Speaker 2: a Denver a Minnesota's length. But the Knicks have done
Speaker 2: something in the last three years that they haven't done
Speaker 2: for twenty, which is they're patient. They're like you look
Speaker 2: at them and you're like, this well run team. They
Speaker 2: don't take I mean they used to take, you know,
Speaker 2: big reaches on Amari Stodameyer when he had bad knees.
Speaker 2: It's like, what are you doing? Like every GM in
Speaker 2: the league's like that. Amari's you know, he's he's got
Speaker 2: like two years left, he's cooked.
Speaker 1: We're training for Carmelo when they could have sign him
Speaker 1: as a free agent one year later, not got the roster.
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what they do. I think Paul
Speaker 2: George fits everywhere. But again, it's such a unique culture,
Speaker 2: like it's just not for everybody. I mean, I can't
Speaker 2: wait to watch. I don't They're not a championship team.
Speaker 2: I think you know listen, they're not. We know it.
Speaker 2: They're just you can't. There's too many great players, too
Speaker 2: many good teams in this league. Kicks are not a
Speaker 2: championship team. I don't know what the solution is. I
Speaker 2: want to watch it. It's not in the draft. We
Speaker 2: know that it's not a good draft. I mean Kd's
Speaker 2: it's it's I just don't know.
Speaker 1: KD is.
Speaker 2: Boy. You look at him post Golden State, It's it's
Speaker 2: he's different. He's run of the two coaches, you know,
Speaker 2: and Tims has power in that room. Nobody's pushing back
Speaker 2: on TIBs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for sure they need somebody that can play.
Speaker 1: That's bigger. I mean, the biggest problem they're running into
Speaker 1: now is their best five guys are four guards in
Speaker 1: Isaiah Hartenstein because of the Ognnobe injury. So like they're
Speaker 1: literally running out there with Runson Heart, Devincenzo and Deuce
Speaker 1: McBride with Isaiah Hartenstein and trying to make plays happen,
Speaker 1: and like there have been moments where they've been playing
Speaker 1: Alec Burks at the four, Like they're really really undersized
Speaker 1: right now, and so I do get encouraged by the
Speaker 1: idea just if you could somehow get KD with that Ognnob,
Speaker 1: which I think would be really difficult. I like the
Speaker 1: idea of having Og at the three with KD and
Speaker 1: Hartenstein because you're just really big on the front line,
Speaker 1: and then you could still have a Devincenzo or Heart
Speaker 1: at the two, so you maintain some of that physicality.
Speaker 1: It's just if you had to give up Og, that's
Speaker 1: such a significant chunk of that identity. I mean, just
Speaker 1: look at this Pacers series since Og and Andobi has
Speaker 1: gone down. They's just just physically look different. They just
Speaker 1: look different right now. Like Indiana has to feel really
Speaker 1: good going into Game five, like they're gonna win this
Speaker 1: series because they really controlled things outside of outside of
Speaker 1: a few clutch stretches in games one and two. And
Speaker 1: that's the other thing too. New York actually has a
Speaker 1: negative point differential to this point in the postseason, which
Speaker 1: is actually kind of crazy, but it's because they've been
Speaker 1: in every close game and just pulled it out late,
Speaker 1: and so you have to get some bounces that go
Speaker 1: your way. Like even when you look back, it's like
Speaker 1: how they beat the Sixers in game in game six,
Speaker 1: it was it was a Josh Hart three from the
Speaker 1: top of the key at like that broke a tie
Speaker 1: in the final minute, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: it it's big shots at the end of games like it.
Speaker 1: Really the teams that can win the championship, they don't
Speaker 1: need to do that every single night. So I do
Speaker 1: think they need some more firepower, but it's just gonna
Speaker 1: be really difficult to toe that line between adding firepower
Speaker 1: while sacrificing the physical identity, which is such an important
Speaker 1: part of how they win.
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Speaker 2: Morgan and Morgan is really easy. So I said this
Speaker 2: last week, and and I lose track sometimes because I'm
Speaker 2: doing three hours a day and I'm doing this with you,
Speaker 2: and I'm doing other stuff. But I want to talk
Speaker 2: Celtics for a second. I said, the NBA. I grew
Speaker 2: up in the seventies. It's pretty well chronicled. I can
Speaker 2: tell you the starting lineups for the Washington team that won,
Speaker 2: the Portland team, the Sonic team, the Sixer team. Like
Speaker 2: that was really in my wheelhouse. I was collecting basketball cards.
Speaker 2: I was like a you know, like like you are now.
Speaker 2: I literally just could not get a night. It was
Speaker 2: the only thing I cared about, you know, when I
Speaker 2: was a young kid, and so and then you get dynasties.
Speaker 2: You get the Laker dynasty and the Celtic dynasty, and
Speaker 2: the Piston dynaty, and the Bulls and the Shaq and
Speaker 2: Kobe and the Spurs and so all these dynasties come up,
Speaker 2: and I do think it's the first time we don't
Speaker 2: have another dynasty. I think we have really good teams now.
Speaker 2: Again Denver wins it, then you've moved into the Heatles
Speaker 2: conversation where you're darn close. Now it's not a dynasty,
Speaker 2: but you can. It does have a spurs feel to it.
Speaker 2: Like with Jokic, he doesn't need the attention. He's the
Speaker 2: kind of guy that would take a pay cut, like,
Speaker 2: let's just keep doing this, running it back. I don't
Speaker 2: need the drama. They have a very spurs feel to them.
Speaker 2: You know. The Star is like a good guy, kind
Speaker 2: of Brady esque, like, let's just keep our roster. But
Speaker 2: I was looking at Boston and I'm like, in this
Speaker 2: era of good, maybe Boston's just two things very good.
Speaker 2: Because they're five hundred at home over the last three
Speaker 2: years historically makes no sense. That is just not the
Speaker 2: way it works. Great teams are so think about this,
Speaker 2: they're five hundred at home in the playoffs. I've only
Speaker 2: been one finals that's against the East. The East has
Speaker 2: been abysmal for about four years. So they're five hundred
Speaker 2: at home in the playoffs against a weak, much weaker conference.
Speaker 2: It's hard to argue they're elite or special. What they
Speaker 2: are is very good. I said, I think they don't
Speaker 2: have a Shack a Kobe and mj in their prime,
Speaker 2: not even an ant Is it possible? They have two
Speaker 2: Scottie Pippins and you're like, they're good enough to win
Speaker 2: a title, but they need some breaks because I keep
Speaker 2: watching them and just if they're not hitting threes, they
Speaker 2: get bad fast, like you're like, wow, this is They're
Speaker 2: just and they're almost unserious, like they're just the energy
Speaker 2: is terrible. Is it possible we've overvalued them because it's
Speaker 2: a big brand. We like Tatum, it's a you know,
Speaker 2: you have two players, they do point differential regular season,
Speaker 2: they're outstanding. You can't be five hundred at home over
Speaker 2: three years against the East and tell me you're elite.
Speaker 2: That it would be different, Jason if they had a title.
Speaker 2: And then you kind of pull the governor down like
Speaker 2: we've seen this of the Shack Kobe teams, it's like
Speaker 2: they're great, or Kad and the Warriors. Then you pull
Speaker 2: it down, like, let's just get through the regular season.
Speaker 2: What is Boston elite or in my contention, they're very
Speaker 2: good in an era of.
Speaker 1: Good, they're very good. I mean, coming into the season,
Speaker 1: you and I were on the same page on this,
Speaker 1: like they're kind of on the same level as Denver,
Speaker 1: And then when we did our playoff review, we were like,
Speaker 1: they're kind of on the same level Denver. Yet they
Speaker 1: had like I can't remember exactly what the Nuggets finished with,
Speaker 1: but they were a mid fifties team and the Celtics
Speaker 1: were a mid sixties team in terms of wins, right, So,
Speaker 1: like they've won sixty something games this year, but they're
Speaker 1: not like a traditional sixty win powerhouse because the Eastern
Speaker 1: Conference is so weak. And again, it's really this simple.
Speaker 1: You play fifty two games every single season against your
Speaker 1: own conference, right, you play thirty against the other conference.
Speaker 1: So like, and all you have to do is go
Speaker 1: look at the go look at the ESPN standings, and
Speaker 1: go look at the record for Boston against the Western Conference.
Speaker 1: They were just another team against the Western Conference. I
Speaker 1: think if Boston was in the West, they'd be near
Speaker 1: the top, but they would not have separated themselves the
Speaker 1: way that they did against the way that they did
Speaker 1: against the rest of the East. Now, one of the
Speaker 1: things with Boston, like Boston has nowhere near the defensive
Speaker 1: personnel that Minnesota does so like and that's the scary
Speaker 1: thing with what Denver's doing right now is you could
Speaker 1: not build a better team to guard the Denver Nuts
Speaker 1: than what they have, and Denver has sliced and diced
Speaker 1: them two games in a row. Now, so like Denver's
Speaker 1: gonna score on Boston. But what Boston has that Minnesota
Speaker 1: doesn't is they have a ton of offensive skill. All
Speaker 1: five of their guys in the starting line that can shoot,
Speaker 1: everyone can dribble, and so they do have the ability
Speaker 1: to kind of space Denver out and have some success there.
Speaker 1: I think Boston presents some challenges for Denver, but I
Speaker 1: would pick Denver to beat them. And so to put
Speaker 1: it simply, they're just another team in the top tier,
Speaker 1: whereas if you looked at the standings, you would view
Speaker 1: them as having separated. And really it does come down
Speaker 1: to Tatum for me, Like Tatum, in my opinion, if
Speaker 1: somewhere around the seventh to tenth best player in the league.
Speaker 1: And it's just really difficult to win the championship in
Speaker 1: NBA history if you don't have one of the top
Speaker 1: guys who won it last year. Jokic, best player in
Speaker 1: the world who want it before that, Steph top three
Speaker 1: player in the world who wanted before that, Giannis, top
Speaker 1: three player in the world who wanted it before that, Lebron,
Speaker 1: Whi Kadie and Steph Lebron, Like, you have to go
Speaker 1: all the way back to twenty fourteen with a crazy
Speaker 1: fluky Furs team that had magical ball movement and magical
Speaker 1: everything to find a team that could win a title
Speaker 1: without a bona fide alpha dog, top five superstar all
Speaker 1: time great and like as much as I like Jason
Speaker 1: Tatum and he's a super nice guy. He had another
Speaker 1: really insightful quote about media and how much he appreciates
Speaker 1: that media has given to the game, and like, super
Speaker 1: great guy, great leader of a team, but he's just
Speaker 1: not as good as the top guys. It's literally that simple.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and I think this is the first year
Speaker 2: I've watched Anthony Davis this year and thought he's a one.
Speaker 2: I always thought he was the best two in Lee history.
Speaker 2: I thought it was Pippin Forever and then Anthony. And
Speaker 2: we've had a few of these like ants A one.
Speaker 2: You can just see it. He the trash talk, the intensity, everything.
Speaker 2: You don't have to argue about that. Tatum is viewed
Speaker 2: as an absolute one. What of like Anthony Davis, He's
Speaker 2: he's the best two in the league. Because I really
Speaker 2: thought this year, I'm like, got Anthony's this. This is
Speaker 2: a healthy, dominant defender, mostly good offensively, plays through pain,
Speaker 2: literally changes changes everything, and it can allow Lebron to
Speaker 2: be a bad defender and cheat. He allows the team
Speaker 2: to cheat. And I look at Tatum and I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's not a knock. I know he makes all NBA,
Speaker 2: but it's very hard to find an all times. Basketball
Speaker 2: is a trash talking store for it's an energy juice sport.
Speaker 2: Most guys that are like top five in the league,
Speaker 2: you know, now Kawhi doesn't talk to anybody, but I
Speaker 2: mean most of them have a little bit of a chip,
Speaker 2: a little bit of they almost like play angry. And
Speaker 2: Tatum doesn't have that. He's got almost like a guy personality,
Speaker 2: you know, like he lets the game come to him. He,
Speaker 2: you know, can always break guys down. When I've watched
Speaker 2: him live three times, he always gets his shot. But
Speaker 2: it's like he plays like a two, but we've annoyted
Speaker 2: him to a one. And I know that sounds ridiculous,
Speaker 2: but I don't know. When I watch him play. When
Speaker 2: you say something for five straight years, it's probably true.
Speaker 2: For five straight years we've said Jalen Brown sometimes acts
Speaker 2: like he wants the ball more than Jason. Okay, we're
Speaker 2: on the fifth year of that. Like that's because it
Speaker 2: feels true, right, Am I wrong? Is he a low
Speaker 2: end one or is he a great two? Not that
Speaker 2: it matters, but I watch him, and I think his
Speaker 2: body language, his mentality, how he plays his aggressiveness, he
Speaker 2: feels like a great two.
Speaker 1: You start when you're one of those guys, when you're
Speaker 1: one of the true bona fide, top tier superstars in
Speaker 1: the league and you're in your mid to late twenties,
Speaker 1: you put together awesome playoff performance after awesome playoff performance,
Speaker 1: Like it's there is a level of expectation that comes
Speaker 1: from that. And I think Tatum's twenty six now and
Speaker 1: he's played what eight playoff games against against pretty inferior competition,
Speaker 1: and he shot below forty five percent seven of the
Speaker 1: eight game. Crazy, like his best game is a fifty
Speaker 1: percent night. So like like you'd think that there'd be
Speaker 1: a fourteen for twenty game in there somewhere right, Like
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's one of those things where like
Speaker 1: and it really does come down to the first step
Speaker 1: for me, He's he's a guy that doesn't have a
Speaker 1: great first step and is an inconsistent jump shooter. Like
Speaker 1: those two things are going to render you. Like he
Speaker 1: does a lot. He's a very good defensive player. He's
Speaker 1: a much better playmaker than most of the forward his
Speaker 1: forward peers that he has in the league. He's a
Speaker 1: very good player. I want to be clear, Like top seven,
Speaker 1: top ten in the league is nothing to like, you know,
Speaker 1: to dumb your nose at. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: like there's levels to this, and when you get to
Speaker 1: those top guys in the league, it's like it's like,
Speaker 1: how is it that thirty nine year old Lebron James
Speaker 1: was having a monumentally more a productive offensive playoff run
Speaker 1: than you against inferior competition every single night, Like it's
Speaker 1: like it really is bizarre, but like at the same
Speaker 1: and here's the other thing too. What really concerns me
Speaker 1: is Boston has no hierarchy, and so because Tatum is
Speaker 1: not this guy that can really command games offensively every
Speaker 1: single night, it's like, now Jalen Brown wants the rains,
Speaker 1: Now Derek White wants the reins, Like Drew Holliday started
Speaker 1: Game three against Cleveland being super aggressive out the gates
Speaker 1: and looking for a shot, and so like, really, there's
Speaker 1: it's actually kind of what leads to some of Boston's
Speaker 1: bad rhythm games where they look really bad, is like
Speaker 1: everyone's kind of yanking at the rains and no one
Speaker 1: can get going right, and it's like, that's just not
Speaker 1: what it's like on these other teams. It's like, if
Speaker 1: you watch the Cavs, who's running the offense for the
Speaker 1: majority of the game, Donovan Mitchell. If you watch the Knicks,
Speaker 1: who's running the offense the majority of the game, Jalen Brunton,
Speaker 1: Tyre's Halliburton, It's Nicole jokicch and Jamal Murray, it's Anthony Edwards,
Speaker 1: it's Luka Dancis, it's Shay Gil just Alexander. In Boston,
Speaker 1: it's like it's all just vibes. It's like whoever wants
Speaker 1: to take control can take control and like and that
Speaker 1: that's the thing is like, no, like this, if this
Speaker 1: team's gonna get to the Promised Land, Jason, like, you've
Speaker 1: got to really take control of this thing, because you
Speaker 1: it's all great against Cleveland, and it's all great against
Speaker 1: against Miami without Jimmy Butler, but you you've got a
Speaker 1: little bit of a tougher team in the next round,
Speaker 1: and then you're going to walk into it most likely
Speaker 1: a Denver team in the NBA Finals that's gonna want
Speaker 1: to snatch your heart the way that they're doing to
Speaker 1: Carl Towns and all these other guys from Minnesota. And
Speaker 1: so it's gonna get harder and they need more out
Speaker 1: of him, and he just hasn't been able to get
Speaker 1: there consistently well.
Speaker 2: And I think I think if you look at what
Speaker 2: Brad Stevens did the construction of the team, Porzingis was
Speaker 2: off a very good offensive year. Drew Holiday was a
Speaker 2: better offensive player than Marcus Smart. To me, Brad Stevens
Speaker 2: is telling you they didn't move off Al Hertford, who
Speaker 2: can have these weird offensive nights like I'm watching Brad Stevens,
Speaker 2: who was a really smart guy, and I'm like he
Speaker 2: wanted more offense, Like he clearly, you know, if you
Speaker 2: go look at Kobe was getting people that didn't threatened
Speaker 2: to take shots against Kobe or mh or right, you
Speaker 2: don't want to take the ball to even Jalen Brunson's hands, Like,
Speaker 2: don't don't take the ball to his hands too much
Speaker 2: with Luca although his youth ball you said, Drake is
Speaker 2: too high, but it kind of looks like Brad Stevens said,
Speaker 2: I'd like to get better scoring in the front court,
Speaker 2: like a better offensive player than Marcus Smart. Like he
Speaker 2: was just adding offensive chips. That's okay, but it's a
Speaker 2: lot of times if you have the guy, it's not
Speaker 2: about that. It's about it adding guy who can take
Speaker 2: off some of his defensive pressure, some size at the rim.
Speaker 2: You know, if you go look at what they added
Speaker 2: the Lebron, they didn't get Kevin Love to take the
Speaker 2: ball out of his hand. Basically it was battye a Allen.
Speaker 2: It was just other people that could augment the game
Speaker 2: but not take it over. I look at them and
Speaker 2: I'm like, they're you know, when he was healthy, Porzeis
Speaker 2: would have twenty eight point nights and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: this feels like his team tonight, Like this is his team.
Speaker 2: So again that's viewed as a criticism. But I you know,
Speaker 2: if you watch how a team is run, they'll tell
Speaker 2: you what they are. I always say this, when you
Speaker 2: watch a football game and you watch what the team
Speaker 2: does in the first two series, they're telling you, this
Speaker 2: is what we think we can do. Because you want
Speaker 2: to get ahead. If you lead in an NFL game,
Speaker 2: you take the lead, you win, like sixty five percent
Speaker 2: of the time, are telling you this is what the
Speaker 2: film says, we can do this. They can't stop this.
Speaker 2: There are times when I watch the Celtics and I'm
Speaker 2: watching the construction of them, and again I'm just I'm spitballing.
Speaker 2: But there are times I watch them and they're like,
Speaker 2: they're telling me they have reservations. Whether Jason can take
Speaker 2: a series over I mean, Jokic, it's established and already
Speaker 2: it's absolutely established. Donovan Mitchell can be hot and cold.
Speaker 2: But jesus, I'm gonna tell you something. I said this
Speaker 2: the other night. Jalen Brunson gets more consistent. He's not
Speaker 2: as athletic as Tatum. Jalen Brunson gets great looks. He
Speaker 2: gets great shots.
Speaker 1: First, I don't know how he does it either, great shots.
Speaker 2: So anyway, yeah, it'll be viewed as a criticism, but
Speaker 2: I think it's reality. Okay, I want to do this topic.
Speaker 2: So I saw this on the internet, and I apologize
Speaker 2: for not giving credit. But somebody said, everybody starts somewhere.
Speaker 2: Is JJ Reddick supposed to go to the G League?
Speaker 2: You know a lot of these guys just don't want
Speaker 2: to coach college the NIL. They just don't want to
Speaker 2: deal with limitations NCAA. Is JJ Reddick? Is he a
Speaker 2: bad idea for the Lakers? I mean, I think Boudenholzer
Speaker 2: would have taken the Lakers job and Lebron would have
Speaker 2: bought in. They couldn't get him out of town fast
Speaker 2: enough and he had a title in Milwaukee. Jannis wasn't
Speaker 2: a fan. Is JJ Reddick a terrible choice? Or are
Speaker 2: we over overstepping that that everybody starts somewhere? Where's he
Speaker 2: going to start? He's rich, He's not going to the
Speaker 2: G League, not taking that job. Jason Kidd first experiment
Speaker 2: not good. Now he's established himself. I mean, what is
Speaker 2: your take of JJ Reddick, who people are getting gobbled
Speaker 2: up could be head of the class now for the Lakers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the experience thing doesn't matter as much to
Speaker 1: me for a couple of reasons. One, it's the classic
Speaker 1: like corporate ideology, where like you're constantly towing the line
Speaker 1: between rewarding experience versus rewarding talent, and like there's always
Speaker 1: a fine line between like, oh, well, this guy's been
Speaker 1: doing it for a ears, but it's like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: he's the mediocre Because that's the other question here. This guy,
Speaker 1: if JJ happens to have the talent for it, if
Speaker 1: he happens to have the basketball like you or whatever
Speaker 1: for it, then by all means make the move. And
Speaker 1: so much of that depends on how he's acting behind
Speaker 1: the scenes in the interviews, if they go through an
Speaker 1: interview process. But the second piece of it is you
Speaker 1: can counteract a lot of the lack of inexperience or
Speaker 1: a lack of experience with just putting experienced head coaches
Speaker 1: on his staff. So you can address that by just
Speaker 1: giving him a really good assistant coaching staff. As far
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned with JJ, Reddick, Like, when it comes
Speaker 1: to the Lakers, what I'm really looking for is somebody
Speaker 1: that holds players accountable because I look at them as
Speaker 1: a defensive minded team anchored by two big athletic forwards
Speaker 1: and Lebron James and Anthony Davis. Just look at the
Speaker 1: around the league. When the Lakers won, they won when
Speaker 1: they defended. You know, that was always their their bread
Speaker 1: and butter. They made it to the Western Conference Finals
Speaker 1: last year as a defensive minded team. They lost in
Speaker 1: the first round this year as an offensive minded team.
Speaker 1: Going back to twenty twenty, they won when they were
Speaker 1: a defensive minded team. So I'm really interested in somebody
Speaker 1: that's going to hold them accountable. And I don't really
Speaker 1: know if JJ's willing to do that with Lebron. That's
Speaker 1: going to be something that is going to have to
Speaker 1: be flushed out in the interview process. But I'm not
Speaker 1: concerned about the experience simply because if JJ's got the talent,
Speaker 1: he's got the talent, and they're going to anchor him
Speaker 1: with experienced NBA coaches that will help him navigate the
Speaker 1: eighty two game regular season, And honestly, like it's really
Speaker 1: just going to be about like a collaborative effort between
Speaker 1: Lebron James and JJ Reddick to kind of identify what
Speaker 1: the strengths and weaknesses of the roster are and go
Speaker 1: from there. It's really hard, honestly, Colin, I wonder what
Speaker 1: it's like for you cover in the NFL too, Like
Speaker 1: it's really difficult with coaches, especially new coaches. We're not
Speaker 1: there for the interviews. Like with a player, I can
Speaker 1: go look at tape and I can get a really
Speaker 1: good feel for what he's good and bad at. But
Speaker 1: like with JJ, it's like, well, what's his philosophy going
Speaker 1: to be? What are his core his core principles that
Speaker 1: he's going to be the team on, Like what is
Speaker 1: is he going to continue the five out offense they
Speaker 1: were running out of dar with Darvin Hamm Are they
Speaker 1: going to run something different? Are they going to do
Speaker 1: something different defensively? It's so hard to say because we're
Speaker 1: not in the room for those interviews. But if JJ
Speaker 1: interviews well and they give him good assistant coaches and
Speaker 1: he's got the talent for it, I absolutely think it
Speaker 1: could work well.
Speaker 2: I mean, Duke Kid, you know, you listen to the podcast,
Speaker 2: he's you know, he's a thoughtful guy to me, you know,
Speaker 2: it's experience is funny. You know, it's creating the volume
Speaker 2: or working for years at ESPN or Fox Sports. You know,
Speaker 2: people managers have come to me and said, hey, listen
Speaker 2: to a tape or what do you make of this guy?
Speaker 2: And my take is, if you've never done network, who cares,
Speaker 2: Like we listened to your tape and we're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's ready to go. Okay, I don't. You didn't have
Speaker 2: to be somewhere. We thought you would be here, So
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's Jerry Seinfeld was speaking at Duke.
Speaker 2: He had a commencement speech. He had a great line.
Speaker 2: He said, having stuff is nice, becoming stuff. Having stuff
Speaker 2: is nice, Becoming something is really more important, and becoming
Speaker 2: something is missus. It swings. It's an ascension. In every
Speaker 2: job I've ever had, I was a little over my
Speaker 2: skis for the first like six to eight weeks, like
Speaker 2: I'm bailing water here, I'm trying to catch I've had
Speaker 2: a friend once that got a job at Google and
Speaker 2: she was like I literally six weeks in, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm dumb, and this is a full of smart people.
Speaker 2: I'm too dumb to work at Google and she goes
Speaker 2: then the light goes on. You start clicking, and then
Speaker 2: like six months into it, you're like okay, but it's
Speaker 2: like it's okay. Darvin Ham learned on the job. If
Speaker 2: you're smart in any industry, you'll figure it out. Like
Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff with coaching is like I
Speaker 2: heard Frank Vogel, you know, some complex defensive stuff. Beal
Speaker 2: didn't really buy in. Booker was close to an assistant coach,
Speaker 2: much closer than he was Vogel. Kevin was fine, but
Speaker 2: Kevin's Kevin at this point, and it was like Vogel
Speaker 2: just didn't He didn't resonate with all the guys in
Speaker 2: the room. JJ Redick, if Lebron buys him, we'll resonate
Speaker 2: with everybody in the room. So my take is you
Speaker 2: start somewhere. If you get Lebron, there is some credibility,
Speaker 2: like with Jason Kidd, Like there is credibility player to
Speaker 2: player that JJ has, And I think it's kind of
Speaker 2: unspoken but kind of the middle aged, you know, guy
Speaker 2: that didn't play. I always think you go into a
Speaker 2: locker room and about half the room is like if
Speaker 2: the star doesn't buy into it, half the room's not
Speaker 2: buying into it. Maybe that's cynical, but I think everybody
Speaker 2: would buy into JJ. Reddick.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's like Mike and Nory from the Timberwolves
Speaker 1: are I can't remember his name, that assistant from the
Speaker 1: Celtics who just got signed by the Charlotte Hornets. It's like,
Speaker 1: if you bring in an assistant, it doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: much he's been grinding in the film room, doesn't matter
Speaker 1: how much he impressed the previous organization. He's got to
Speaker 1: be able to look at Broun and be like, hey man,
Speaker 1: I need you to do this, and Lebron's got to
Speaker 1: be like, okay, you know. And not only that, but
Speaker 1: I'll hold the rest of the team accountable to help
Speaker 1: them along the way. And so there, I do agree
Speaker 1: that's the gravitas piece. And by the way, that's why
Speaker 1: they hired Darvin Ham. They thought Darvin Ham would be
Speaker 1: able to bring some of that, like real gravitas to
Speaker 1: the situation. The thing with JJ is you got to
Speaker 1: acknowledge the risk because you're right, Like they let Darvin
Speaker 1: Ham learn on the fly and he didn't really start
Speaker 1: making huge mistakes until this season. With the roster and
Speaker 1: when he was like leaning into cameradis we've gone over it,
Speaker 1: but like he made too many mistakes and then the
Speaker 1: Lakers had a situation where they looked at the urgency
Speaker 1: of their situation and said, we have to make a move.
Speaker 1: And so I just I just hope that the Lakers'
Speaker 1: front office and ownership understands that if you do take JJ,
Speaker 1: there is a risk. And even though I believe he
Speaker 1: could do this well, especially with good experienced staff behind him,
Speaker 1: anytime you go for a first time head coach, there's
Speaker 1: a like what if he's just really bad at in
Speaker 1: game adjustments, what if he's just really bad, Like we
Speaker 1: don't know what it's going to be, Like we're going
Speaker 1: to find out over time. And so that's where like
Speaker 1: the let's say the alternative, Let's say they were to
Speaker 1: get like a Kenny Atkinson for instance, Like Kenny Atkinson
Speaker 1: is more of a known commodity. He might be a
Speaker 1: higher floor, but like maybe you don't get some of
Speaker 1: the upside you get if you get a freaked out
Speaker 1: to your point, Steve Kerr, like Steve Kerr is regarded
Speaker 1: as one of the best coaches in the league. I
Speaker 1: think he's the second best coach in the league behind
Speaker 1: Eric Spolstra. Like that was a risk signing Steve Cree.
Speaker 1: By the way, Steve Kerr was radical. He came into
Speaker 1: a Mark Jackson led team that was spam and pick
Speaker 1: and roll, and he said, Hey, Steph Curry, we're taking
Speaker 1: the ball out of your hands. We're gonna lead the
Speaker 1: league in passes. We're going to run this motion ball
Speaker 1: in player movement offense. And I'm sure there were moments
Speaker 1: in training camp where it looked ugly, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: there were moments where the front office was looking down like, ugh,
Speaker 1: this is weird, you know, like we just went you know,
Speaker 1: two great playoff runs in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, just
Speaker 1: having Steph run spread pick and roll, so like this
Speaker 1: is funky, But then it works and now Steve Kerr
Speaker 1: is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league.
Speaker 1: So like, there's upside to going with the JJ, but
Speaker 1: there's also a risk. And so for me, I'm okay
Speaker 1: with that risk because I don't really think there's any
Speaker 1: candidate out there that's a home run anyway, right, So
Speaker 1: I think there's risk all around to begin with.
Speaker 2: Because the league is so player driven, you have to
Speaker 2: be more patient. Like you know, in football, it's really
Speaker 2: owner coach gm driven. So there's no excuse for a
Speaker 2: coach to say, you know, I can't get the room.
Speaker 2: I can't get the room. Just cut guys. If you
Speaker 2: can't get the room, you're never going to be a
Speaker 2: good coach in the NFL, in the NBA international soccer,
Speaker 2: where you have these Rinaldo's and Lebron's that are literally,
Speaker 2: I mean, they're almost above the sport. They're these iconic figures,
Speaker 2: it is harder to get that attention. It is harder
Speaker 2: to get the buy in you hopefully get a Tim
Speaker 2: Duncan or you know, I mean, I think sometimes we
Speaker 2: forget that Phil Jackson had replaced Doug Collins. Michael liked Doug.
Speaker 2: Doug's really intense and there was some combative nature to
Speaker 2: his personality, but Doug Collins and Michael mostly worked. That
Speaker 2: was the first time Michael got real buy in from Doug,
Speaker 2: and he got real buy in from Phil. Phil's considered,
Speaker 2: you know, the zen master, the better coach, but part
Speaker 2: of its buy in. But I think Lebron has to
Speaker 2: also acknowledge, you know, when Michael was in a prime
Speaker 2: for both Collins and Phil like Lebron's not there anymore.
Speaker 2: And I do think when he was completely unselfish for
Speaker 2: the fifteen years in his prime, he could have scored
Speaker 2: twelve to fifteen points more every game he played in
Speaker 2: Now he can be a little He looks for soft
Speaker 2: spots in the defense, that he can manipulate smaller players,
Speaker 2: that he can drive to the basket on you've talked
Speaker 2: about this is that I think Lebron gets a little
Speaker 2: selfish now where it's more about legacy and production. Is
Speaker 2: that I think it's time to step back. I'm not
Speaker 2: denying he's a top six player in any night, but
Speaker 2: it does feel like a little bit with Lebron he's
Speaker 2: gotten a little selfish where it's like it's okay to
Speaker 2: acknowledge is you can't literally even if you're great, you're
Speaker 2: not guaranteeing anything in this league. This is the West,
Speaker 2: it's packed. You could be a playing team. And I
Speaker 2: know you know Lebron better than anybody his game, but
Speaker 2: I do feel like with Lebron he's a little more
Speaker 2: of a taker than a giver now. In turn, not
Speaker 2: just not just assists, but he's seeking play he's seeking
Speaker 2: production sometimes to maintain and I think it's time to
Speaker 2: step back. I think he should be a two on
Speaker 2: a team.
Speaker 1: I know, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, this
Speaker 1: was actually kind of a little bit of a subplot
Speaker 1: over the last two seasons, more so last year than
Speaker 1: this year because Lebron was so good this season. But
Speaker 1: like the record, I don't really I don't think it's legacy.
Speaker 1: I think it's confidence. Like I think Lebron still thinks
Speaker 1: he's the guy, you know, and so I think a
Speaker 1: lot of times like Lebron confronts a basketball problem, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're in this slow down basketball game. I need to
Speaker 1: get something going for my team offensively. That means give
Speaker 1: me the ball and then I'm gonna, you know, play
Speaker 1: basketball surgeon, you know, bring this guy up. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get a switch. I'm going to attack this smaller player. Oh,
Speaker 1: I want to pick on Jokichen pick and roll. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna bring Anthony Davis up to the screen. But
Speaker 1: one of the things that I noticed over the course
Speaker 1: the last couple of years is Lebron almost confronted every
Speaker 1: basketball problem with him having the ball in his hands, right,
Speaker 1: and there is something to be said about like, even
Speaker 1: though Lebron on the ball is still a very effective
Speaker 1: form of offense, it's not the same as it used
Speaker 1: to be. And you know, specifically with Anthony Davis, I
Speaker 1: actually do think that Lebron would benefit from leaning more
Speaker 1: on Anthony Davis offensively over the course of the season.
Speaker 1: One to build up Anthony Davis's confidence so that when
Speaker 1: they get into some of these situations where they need
Speaker 1: to lean on a like perfect example of this was
Speaker 1: was Game two against Denver when they blew the twenty
Speaker 1: point lead. It was Lebron and a D were picking
Speaker 1: on Nicole jokicchen ball screens, and then Michael Lane made
Speaker 1: a very smart adjustment. He moved Aaron Gordon onto Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis so that they could switch the Lebron ad pick
Speaker 1: and roll. And then Lebron instead of going, hey, Aaron
Speaker 1: Gordon's on a D. Let me just keep beating a
Speaker 1: D against Aaron Gordon. Instead he thought, I can beat
Speaker 1: jokicen ball screens because I'm Lebron. So now I'm going
Speaker 1: to bring Ruey up to the screen because Jokic is
Speaker 1: guarding Ruie, and I'll start to pick on Jokic and
Speaker 1: the Laker offense fell apart, and so like, I don't
Speaker 1: I think Lebron made the bad read because he was thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm Lebron James, but it's not on Lebron James. I'm
Speaker 1: thirty nine year old Lebron James. So maybe I should
Speaker 1: go to this other guy who made fourteen straight shot
Speaker 1: earlier in the game, Like, maybe I should go to
Speaker 1: him instead, And so I think you're right, Like I
Speaker 1: think in general, and this is something I think that
Speaker 1: the Lakers from an organizational standpoint hiring a coach and
Speaker 1: as they approach this offseason, they need to actually give
Speaker 1: a clear ball handling option that's not Lebron, so that
Speaker 1: Lebron doesn't have to feel like he needs to approach
Speaker 1: every problem by him playing Lebron ball out above the
Speaker 1: break and the big guy that I'm looking at, and
Speaker 1: I really I want them to go after de Jontay Murray.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he saw today, but in the
Speaker 1: draft lottery, the Hawks got the number one overall n yeah,
Speaker 1: which which is which is super interesting because like I
Speaker 1: would imagine they're going to look at that as let's
Speaker 1: rebuild around Trey Young and Jalen Johnson, and so I
Speaker 1: think they I think they'll probably look to move to
Speaker 1: Jontay Murray this summer. And he's one of those guys
Speaker 1: where like Desonte was really good in the play in
Speaker 1: games and really good down the stretch of the season.
Speaker 1: He can really beat people off the dribble. He's an
Speaker 1: excellent point of attack defender. That's the kind of guy
Speaker 1: where like you can actually put yourself in a situation
Speaker 1: where you have a like because as good as Austin
Speaker 1: Reeves is, you kind of own you want to lean
Speaker 1: on him. It's better that he can go on spurts.
Speaker 1: You don't want to lean on him for big doses.
Speaker 2: I saw if you look at de Jonte Murray's numbers
Speaker 2: when Trey Young didn't play, like it's it's a little
Speaker 2: Jalen Brunson without Luca. Oh yeah, you're like, oh, oh no,
Speaker 2: he could be a one and a bad team or
Speaker 2: a top I mean like, when Trey Young didn't play,
Speaker 2: there were like thirty percent elevation and assists twenty five percent.
Speaker 2: Like I don't remember the exact numbers, but I did
Speaker 2: a rant on this and I was like, I mean,
Speaker 2: you watch him, he's obviously explosive. You can see that.
Speaker 2: But it's like we did this with Brunson. You know,
Speaker 2: you're like, well, he's kind of a two to Tray,
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, maybe they're two ones. The numbers.
Speaker 2: When Trey doesn't play, Dejonte's numbers move up and his
Speaker 2: efficiency gets better. So that's an interesting one to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to put it simply, the Luca Trey, like heliocentric,
Speaker 1: do everything player, it is difficult to be the number
Speaker 1: two for that guy. We can at least admit that.
Speaker 1: If anything, it's like a testament to Kyrie, Like Kyrie's
Speaker 1: the kind of guy like in Game three are Game
Speaker 1: two who can score eight points and still dominate the
Speaker 1: game as an excellent defensive player and passer and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, but like it is difficult to
Speaker 1: be in that role. And de Jontay Murray in particular,
Speaker 1: like he's a guy that like he can really dance
Speaker 1: with the ball, beat people off the dribble and make
Speaker 1: stuff happen, and so like if he's and what you
Speaker 1: know what no one ever said about de Jontay Murray
Speaker 1: is he's Klay Thompson. Like he's not going to stand
Speaker 1: out on the wing and just shoot, catch and shoot
Speaker 1: threes all game and so like it. Actually, it actually
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. I actually look at that
Speaker 1: as if I was the Lakers this summer, I'd look
Speaker 1: two routes through the trade. I'd look for de Jontay
Speaker 1: Murray through free agency, because they'll have their mid level
Speaker 1: exception that they can use every year. I would target
Speaker 1: a real center, like an actual big center that can
Speaker 1: play next to Lebron James and Anthony Davis and give
Speaker 1: them a big look. I think if they do that
Speaker 1: and Jared Vanderbilt gets healthy, they all of a sudden
Speaker 1: become a much more physically imposing team with a lot
Speaker 1: more ball handling because of de Jontay Murray. Like, I
Speaker 1: actually think that there's a a if they nail this
Speaker 1: summer and the head coach hire works out, I think
Speaker 1: there's a small opportunity for them to do some damage
Speaker 1: next year. But but yeah, like I uh, the JJ
Speaker 1: Redick piece, I really do think that there's It's just
Speaker 1: as good as any other option out there. It's not
Speaker 1: like there's some slam dunk home run option, and so
Speaker 1: I kind of think as long as he nails the interviews,
Speaker 1: and they put the right staff around him. It could work.
Speaker 2: Jason Temp hoops tonight as always, great stuff, Bud.
Speaker 1: It's good to see a man looking forward to next
Speaker 1: week the volume.
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