1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Oh America. Alright, I started the episode, so they I 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: mean you could have done worse. Yeah, yeah, I America. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: I've heard you start. We all love America and so 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: let's celebrate it. Andrew, of all of all of all 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: of the countries that are America, which one is your favorite? 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: And why is it ancient Rome? Wait? I I there 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: was a bubble, just a tidy bubble in your audio, 8 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: so i' I missed the middle of it. Wait what 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: is he said? All the countries that are America? Which 10 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: is my favorite? Yeah? Yeah, exactly, I think it's I mean, honestly, 11 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: so far it's got to be. Um just the sword 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: control bills, and I do I do love the sword 13 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: control bills. Uh, yeah it is. It is very funny. 14 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: I guess it is a little tricky too, because living 15 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: at a time if you go back to part one, 16 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: when it's like weapons of war are banned, but weapons 17 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: of war includes things like horses. Yeah, well yeah, a 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: weapon of war is like a sharp piece of metal 19 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: in this period of time and not really much deadlier 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: than like a big heavy stick, right, like it's yeah, 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: it is, it is different. Like again, these are You 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: can also find fun articles about people talking about ancient 23 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: Roman like weapons limitation laws and people trying to make 24 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: comparisons to assault weapons, and it's like, well, it doesn't 25 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: really work very among other things. Number One, people support 26 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: assault weapons bands in the United States generally because of 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: like massacres of schools and malls and stuff. And the 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: Romans supported a ban on the carrying of weapons within 29 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: the pamarium because they were trying to stop armed mobs 30 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: from taking political It's not about stop Roman. Ancient Romans 31 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: did literally nothing to stop murders. There were not police. 32 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: You did not like if you committed a murder, there 33 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: was like unless you killed a famous rich person, there 34 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: was nobody to like do like they didn't give a ship. 35 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: Um again, people died constantly, right like you we just 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: talked about that lady had twelve kids and three of 37 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: them made it to adulthood, like they didn't. They would 38 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: not have banned us. They would not have banned assault 39 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: weapons if the worry were that civilians were getting murdered. 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: They scarrying because they didn't want people to take over 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: the government. Um sort of. Yeah, the almost exact opposite. Yeah, 42 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: it's it's literally like the opposite reasoning. It was not 43 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: to protect life. That was absolutely no one's concerned Rome. 44 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: So after the assassination of Tiberius Gracis, things got worse 45 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: very quickly for our Roman friends. Now, Tiberius was not 46 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: yet thirty when he died. I think he might have 47 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: been in the twenty. He might have been like Cobain, 48 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, um, Kurt Cobain in Tiberius Gracchus to 49 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: socialist kings. By the time, by the time you're in 50 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: your thirties, you should have been assassinated, assassinated, yeah, um, yes, um. 51 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: Now Tiberius, yes, So he's he's young, and he's got 52 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: this younger brother who we talked about a little bit 53 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: in the first episode, Gaius, who's like just starting to 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 1: be an adult when his older brother gets murdered. Now, 55 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: you can find a bunch of writing from historians at 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: the time about Gaius, and it's all the same sort 57 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: of like Haggia graphic shit about how cool he was 58 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: and how like he loved his soldiers. When he becomes 59 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: a trip, he becomes like a the equivalent of like 60 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: a lieutenant or something when he's like seventeen, like all 61 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: of these people do, and he's he's supposed to be 62 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: good at that, and eventually he winds up getting elected 63 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: tribune like his brother had been. Um, he has to 64 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: break his law to get elected. The break the law 65 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: to get elected. He has to like actually desert the army, 66 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: but he talks his way out of getting in trouble 67 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: for it, because again, a lot of Roman law is 68 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: just like, well, we're pretty sure our ancestors wouldn't have 69 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: liked it if this happened. But he cocks his way 70 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: out of it. Um. So, his brother's reforms had been 71 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: passed after he was murdered, but they've been kind of 72 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: kneecapped by patricians. So they pass a land reform bill, 73 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: and then they spend the next couple of years like 74 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: taking back everything that they've given to poor people pretty much. 75 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: So Guias starts pushing for a bunch of like really 76 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: pretty radical reforms at the time. He wants to give 77 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: more public land to the poor. He wants to hand 78 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: out free grain. He wants to set up a state 79 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: dole so that the poor aren't reliant upon like rich 80 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: people as clients who can then tell them who to 81 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: vote in order to like survive. Um. He wants to 82 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: provide public funding for military equipment so that poor people 83 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: can be in the army. Um. He wants to raise 84 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: the draft age, and he wants to make everyone in 85 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: Italy a Roman citizen, which really pisss off the rich 86 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: and powerful people in Rome. Um and he's he's politically 87 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: successful in a lot of this. He actually gets the 88 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: Senate to send money back to conquered nations because he 89 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: thinks that like Romes being unfair to the places they conquer, 90 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: which is kind of a wild thing to succeed at 91 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: getting the Senate to do so. This makes him as 92 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: popular among the people who had murdered his brother as 93 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: you might expect now. Plutarch describes the changes Gaius is 94 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: trying to push in the Roman government as changing it 95 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: from aristocratical to democratical. And perhaps he would have succeeded 96 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: given time, But he made the mistake of leaving Rome 97 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: to found a colony in Libya, which gives his enemies 98 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: the opportunity to slander him devoters. And when he returns, 99 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: he gets attacked in the street by a mob and 100 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: the majority of people fail to come to his aid, 101 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: like nobody comes to protect him. When this group of 102 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: like hired thugs comes to murder him, and he gets 103 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: beaten to death and his head is stuck on a 104 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: spear and brought to the Senate. They throw his corpse 105 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: into a river. They love throwing corpses and rivers the 106 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 1: romans Um, which is a bad idea, by the way, 107 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: if you're going to kill, if you're gonna if your 108 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: political movement is going to massacre a bunch of people, 109 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: don't throw their bodies in the river. You need that water, especially, 110 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: you know in pre pre water treatment plant times. Yeah, 111 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: if you wanna my my famous favorite meme, the one 112 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: from Predator with the two the black guy in the 113 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: and the white guy like clasping hands, it's gonna be 114 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: like ancient Rome, the Aztecs throwing all of their corpses 115 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: in the river um. So, whether or not you want 116 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: to see the Brothers gracky as they've become known to 117 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: the ages as the first socialists or is precursors to 118 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, this brief period of time in the spotlight 119 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: they have makes one thing very clear. The ruling class 120 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: in Rome is willing to break any rule and violate 121 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: any norm to keep the money flowing and maintain their 122 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: shocking rate of wealth accumulation. From this point on in 123 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: the Republic's history, the rich only get richer and the 124 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: poor tend to get poorer. But once it becomes clear 125 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: that it's okay to murder political rabble rousers and their 126 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: supporters to keep them from redistributing land, it becomes increasingly 127 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: hard to argue that there aren't a lot of other politics, 128 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: cool things that are worth doing a murder over, And 129 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: so people start murdering over everything. Um and while Roman 130 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: politics is getting a lot more murdery. And one BC 131 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: this huge migration of barbarians. They're generally called Germans, but 132 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: like they're not actually Germans, but whatever they're they're they 133 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: sweep down from central central Ish Europe and they start 134 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: invading Italy. Now the Romans do what they always do, 135 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: which is they put together this this army twenty men, 136 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: and they march out to stop them. And you know, 137 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi's in charge again. So the army gets wiped out, 138 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: just just absolutely massacred. So the Roman state, which had 139 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: never meaningfully reformed public lands or fixed the problems that 140 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: Gracky had railed against, can't really replace the lost men. 141 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: But thankfully they have a guy on hand, a military leader, 142 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: a dude named Gaius Marius who he's been elected consul 143 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: a couple of times at this point, and he's co 144 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: leading a military campaign elsewhere in the empire, and it 145 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: just so happens. This guy Marius is like like top 146 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: ten military minds and like all of history, like if 147 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: you're if you're ranking like all of the like, he's 148 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: up there with like Subatie and ship like. He's he's 149 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: very very good at being a military leader. And he's 150 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: going to be the guy who reforms the Roman military. 151 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: So the Roman army that you've seen in any movie 152 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: with like Romans where they all have segmented armor and 153 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: like you know, you've got the lesions of the big 154 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: shields and the swords and the hat. He invents that 155 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: before him. It's a very different looking army. They have 156 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: like different classes that they've got the guy's spirit. It's 157 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: it's very different military. I mean it's it's like everyone 158 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: because everyone bought their own ship. So it's right exactly exactly. Um, 159 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: So he reforms the military, and he also he basically 160 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: succeeds in making the state pay for it. So for 161 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: the first time, Um, you've got regular people. They're called 162 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: the proletarii proletari yeah, proletaria something like that. Um, the 163 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: poorest people are in the military, and he started it's 164 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: very controversial what he's doing, but there's a di aster 165 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: happening at the time. They're getting their asses kicked by 166 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: these these barbarians. So he's like, look, we have to 167 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: we have to recruit from poor people and arm them 168 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: at the state's expense. UM. And this works out really 169 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: really well. UM. And Marius is as as he's a 170 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: brilliant military leader, he's also a really good politician. He's 171 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: good at winning elections and and exercising power and building coalitions. 172 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: But he's also he's not really a patrician. He's he's 173 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: a rich guy, but he's kind of a rich country guy. 174 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: So everyone could all of the patricians. He's a redneck, right. 175 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: He doesn't speak Greek, right, he can't even speak Greek. 176 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: So they're like they hate his ass. Like there's a 177 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: little bit, actually a little bit of their reaction to 178 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: him that is kind of trumpy, and that like you've 179 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: got this like entrenched political class who just doesn't like 180 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: the way he talks. But I think it's kind of gross. 181 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: But also he's super popular among regular people because number one, 182 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: he's like massively improving their lives because along with letting 183 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: them be in the army, he makes it so that 184 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: if you're in the army, you get a bunch of 185 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: land after you retire, right Like, you get this land 186 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: that we're conquering, we're going to give it to soldiers. 187 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: So instead of coming home to a farm that has 188 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: been taken from you, you come home and you get 189 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: given a farm by the farm, you know, And that's 190 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: like a pretty cool deal um for the time. So, 191 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: to make a long story short, he he wins this 192 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: war um, and he becomes such a hero that he 193 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: has styled the third Founder of Rome um. Like to 194 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: if you want to talk about the degree to which 195 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: he wins this war against these barbarians, if I'm remembering properly, 196 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: they basically create a new god of death that's made 197 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: in him his image because of how many of them 198 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: he kills. It's that it's he's like that, it's like 199 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: that kind of war um. So he becomes like known 200 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: as the third Founder of Rome, which is you know, 201 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: most like he's he's a big part of who's like 202 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: pushing that title for himself, right, because he's yeah, it's good, 203 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: good branding, um. And he's absolutely a populist, and in fact, 204 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: he draws a movement towards to him, who become known 205 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: as the popular as Um, which is I think it's 206 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: pretty obvious what that means. And they're they're as is 207 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: by the optimates, who are like the rich people who 208 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: want to reduce the political power of the police Um. Eventually, 209 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: all of this leads to a nasty civil war between 210 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: Marius and his old lieutenant, a patrician politician named Sola. 211 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: Now Slah is like the number one, it has to 212 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: be said. He is like the queerest dude in ancient 213 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: rome Um and very open about it. He's a fun 214 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: fucking guy, like real it was like Sola is a 215 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: is a neat character um and he he is just 216 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: like this, like very like some people will say, sadistic, 217 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: definitely mass murderer, very very good general. And he and 218 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: fucking Marius have this like series of horrific battles. They 219 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: have this massive civil war and just bleed it wipes 220 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: out like a generation of Italian because they're both really good. 221 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: Neither of them are Pelosi types. They're both actually good 222 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: at having armies. Um, so they just massacre each other. Now, 223 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: Marius loses at first, and he asked to flee to Africa, 224 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: but then he reinvades Italy and he conquers Rome and 225 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: he massacres all of Sola's followers in the city. But 226 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: then he dies because he's like Joe biden Age. And 227 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: so Sola comes back and he kills all of marius 228 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: Is followers, including like there's like eight thousand Italians members 229 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: of this tribe elsewhere in Italy who Marius was trying 230 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: to give political rights to because there's this big fight 231 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: over whether or not Italian should be Roman citizens, and 232 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: he just genocides Sola just does a genocide on this. 233 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: He stabs eight thousand people to death, which is a 234 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: lot of people to stab to death when you think 235 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: about it, um, very rarely do that many people get 236 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: stabbed to death in the short period. It really is that, 237 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: like you know, it's so I know that obviously our 238 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: brains are numbed to like the numbers of war and 239 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: like what what like automatic weapons and like you know, 240 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: modern bombs can do. And it is really like swords, 241 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: This is swords. This is sorts. It is. It is 242 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: swords and sharpened sticks and like arrows which are basically 243 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: sharpened sticks. Um. So Sola just kills fucking everybody he 244 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: get his hands on, um who are his enemy. And 245 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: then he's dictator. He makes himself dictator, which is a 246 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: political position in Rome, right. Dictator previously is like it's 247 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: a you have, it's a job you have for like 248 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: six months a year. He makes himself dictator for however 249 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: long he wants to be. But after a while he 250 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: gives up the job and he retires to his mansion 251 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: to funk a bunch of hot dudes. So that's a 252 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: pretty fun character. I mean as far as like I'm 253 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: the dictator, but you know what I'm like from dictator 254 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: is like a pretty amazing that's like no one does that. 255 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: Like he's a monster. These guys are all monsters, but 256 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: he's a pretty entertaining monster. So there's a number of 257 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: cool side effects to Solo massacring all of Marius's guys. 258 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: Number one, all of the people who were like popularites, 259 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: who are like populists, Plebeian supporting like folks who are 260 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: on Marius side. They either get murdered or they have 261 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: to flee the city. And one of these people who 262 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: has to flee Rome and like hide somewhere else is 263 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: a dude you might have heard of named Julius Caesar, right, 264 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: he's one of Marius his butts. So another thing that 265 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: happens is that under Solo, the plebs are stripped of 266 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: all political power that like position tribune of the pleas 267 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: that have caused so much trouble with the they that 268 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist anymore for a while. It comes back. 269 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: They regain the power pretty a lot of the power 270 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: they've had in like the decades after Solo leaves, um, 271 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: but they lose basically all political power for a while. UM. 272 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: And the last thing that happens is that all of 273 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: the people's sullen murders have there and he's like he's 274 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: he's like a Stalin type figure with his murdering. He 275 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: makes a list, like there's like a list, and you 276 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: get a bounty if you like kill or bring in 277 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: somebody who's like on his list. You get like a 278 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: chunk of their stuff. Um. And so some people get 279 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: really good at murdering or tracking down or are hiring 280 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: people to murder folks on that list. And so they 281 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: get a bunch of their stuff. Um, and he's like, 282 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: so again, if you help him kill his political enemies, 283 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: he'll give you their ship. And by hooker by crypt, 284 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the property of people who had been 285 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: supporters of Marius winds up in the hands of a 286 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: guy named Marcus Licinius Crassis, who is the Elon Musk 287 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: of ancient Rome, the wealthiest man in the world. Um, 288 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: and he's also not He's like Musk, not just because 289 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: he's the richest guy in the world, but he's also 290 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: a some would say a trailblazing innovator. Right now, Musk's 291 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: great innovations are PayPal, which is banking but slightly less regulated, 292 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: and uh in that car company. Crosses. His innovation is 293 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: he starts the first firefighting brigade in Roman history. Right. 294 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: People have been obviously fighting fires for forever because it's 295 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: a horrible problem, right, like a terrible, terrible problem in 296 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: ancient Rome. Um. But he's the first guy who builds 297 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: like an actual professional fire brigade. Now, these guys are 298 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: all slaves, um, and the fire brigade is a for 299 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: profit endeavor. So what happens is when your house is 300 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: on fire, Crosses his guys will show up and be 301 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: like that seems like a real problem. You got sell 302 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: us your house for like basically nothing and we'll put 303 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: the fire out. Um. So he gets real rich doing this, right, 304 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: he makes so much fucking money. Um, it is hard 305 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: to convert old Roman currency to modern dollars. But he's 306 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: like a billionaire, right, He's a multibillionaire for all intents 307 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: and purposes. He's got like Elon Musk money. Right. Um. 308 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: He is so rich that a few decades later he's 309 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: going to buy an army of forty men to invade Iran. Um. 310 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't work out for him. Uh, it's really badly, 311 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: but he's part of this like tradition of like now 312 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: rich guys can buy an army if they were Yeah, 313 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: because they basically what they're doing, like, I'm going to 314 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: donate this money to the state in order to buy 315 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: this army because I think we need to be a 316 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: war with these people. Um and crasses his case, they 317 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: get their asses kicked very badly, and he gets killed 318 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: by having molten gold throat poured out his throat, which 319 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: is yeah, no, it's a dope. It's a dope punishment 320 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: because the Parthians who are like basically Iranian Um are like, uh, hey, 321 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: you're the richest man in the world. You know, it 322 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: would be a fun way to murder you is to 323 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: make you drown in your own moulten gold. We're gonna 324 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: like melt down your money and kill you with it, 325 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: which is rad and should be done more often in 326 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: history like today for example. Um now, it's just pooring 327 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: n f t s down there, That's right. They do 328 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: not have the same panash so crass. This is one 329 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: of these Roman politicians that most people have probably heard about. 330 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: He's famously he's part of this triumvirate that runs things 331 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: for a while at the tail end of the republic. 332 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: The other two guys in the transvirate are Julius Caesar, 333 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: who everybody knows, and the Nias Pompeius Magnus or or 334 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: simply Pompy the Great. Um now, I'm not going to 335 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: First off, I should note he's called Pompy the Great 336 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: because that is the nickname he gives himself. He basically 337 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: he's like Pompy's whole strategy was he would go Rome 338 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: would be at a war somewhere, and some political guy 339 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: who was good at fighting the war would almost win it, 340 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: and then Pompy, because he was good at politics and rich, 341 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: would like buy his way into taking over the army, 342 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: and then he'd finish the war and then he'd be like, 343 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: look at this big victory. I want to guess I 344 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: get another big fancy day marching through the city. And um. 345 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: So like he gets that, he gets voted the name 346 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: Pompy the Great effectively because like the other senators are 347 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: making fun of him because they're like like like like 348 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: it's like it's a it's a it's like kind of 349 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: a mocking nickname to most people because you all know 350 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: you're kind of full of ship. He's like an executive 351 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: producer exactly exactly. He's he's an ep um. He he 352 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: actually kind of is like I mean, in a number 353 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: of ways, he's like that, he's like the the Weinstein 354 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:41,479 Speaker 1: of history. Right, Um yeah, um, Julius Caesar has been affleck. 355 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to explain it, so I'm not going 356 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: to like rehash all of this period in Roman history, 357 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: save to say that like the fact that three guys 358 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: wind up basically in charge of all government policy is 359 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: not a good step and towards like a more republican 360 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: form of government, right, So doesn't talk and get talked 361 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: about enough, because this is the thing everybody talks about, 362 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: is like the Triumvirate and Pompey and Caesar and Crassis 363 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: and stuff. This is like most of what people know 364 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: about the Roman Republic is this tail end period. What 365 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: doesn't get talked about enough is how sh it actually 366 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: got done on the ground. Because in the eighty or 367 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: so years since the Brothers Gracky, Roman politics had turned 368 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: into a constant, low level gang war. And again you've 369 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: got these big mobs of clients. So like after it 370 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: becomes common to kill people for political purposes, senators and 371 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: elected officials won't travel through town without like a bunch 372 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: of their guys with them, right. That so part of 373 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: your job as clients, like at least you know the 374 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: chunk of clients you have were like veterans who are 375 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: like big tough guys. You get your vets and your 376 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: boxers and stuff. And anytime you go through town to 377 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: take care of business, you have like fifty or a 378 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: hundred guys with weapons like your guys following. You like 379 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: to watch your back, right, because now people get murdered 380 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: all the time because they propose bills. Um. And one 381 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: of the things this means is that pretty regularly you'll 382 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: get these groups of like senators and elected officials and 383 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: like their goons, and they'll just murder each other in 384 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: the street. There will be these gang wars between like 385 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: members of Congress. It is. It's literally like if fucking 386 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: like Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi and like bands of 387 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: men with like sharpened sticks wailing in each other in 388 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: like Washington, um, which would be a better system than 389 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: we have now. Don't get me wrong. Now it's like 390 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: a cold war ver yeah yeah, yeah, so like and 391 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,959 Speaker 1: a lot of one of the actually the most popular 392 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: weapons is like ceiling tiles. Like that's if you really 393 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: want to kill somebody, you get some dudes up on 394 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: a roof to just start hooking ceiling tiles down on them. 395 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: That will kill the motherfucker fast. Um yeah. So yeah, 396 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: I mean that's how it's a good way to kill people. Um. 397 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,959 Speaker 1: So the most successful of these gangsters. Because another thing 398 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: that happens is that like, yes, senator, you've got like 399 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: your mobs of clients, but like a guy who's professionally 400 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: building a mob of armed people to get into street fights. 401 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: It is always going to be better than some politician 402 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: who has his like his like Toady's following him. So 403 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: you get these professional gangsters who build political mobs to 404 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: street fight on behalf of different sides of the big 405 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: Roman political divide, right, and the most successful of these 406 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: gangsters is a guy named Claudius. Now, Claudius is another 407 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: rich kid. His family had sided with Sola during the 408 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: last civil war, which is like, you know, that's the 409 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: aristocracy side, But Claudius didn't follow in the footsteps of 410 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: his father, who had been elected consul. Instead, he starts 411 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: to develop a reputation is the kind of guy who 412 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: can get things done in a dark alley. And sixty 413 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: three b C. A senator named Cataline tries to overthrow 414 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: the government and massacre all of the elected leaders of 415 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: Rome and assumed control in a coup kind of tries 416 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: to make himself dictator again like Selah had. And while 417 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: this is all going on, this is a complicated story. 418 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: But while there's this like coup attempt, Claudius, because he's 419 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: kind of a young, strapping dude, he volunteers to act 420 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: as bodyguard for the consoles for the elected leaders Catalan 421 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: is trying to kill and when all the dust is settled, 422 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: he's become one of the guys you go to in 423 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: Rome when you need a gang of thugs to protect 424 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: you or somebody else. Right, he kind of like he's 425 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: kind of like building a private security firm. Like that's literally, 426 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: like really what this is is like you can hire 427 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: Claudius and he's got like fucking goons who will watch 428 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: your fucking back and they're good at it. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 429 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of ground to cover here. And 430 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give Claudius his due because he's 431 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: a fascinating guy, but I would be doing everyone a 432 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: disservice if I didn't read you this one excerpt from 433 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: his back story, and I'm gonna this is coming from 434 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: a write up and headstuff dot org quote. The cult 435 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: of Bonadea, the Good Goddess, is somewhat of an anomaly 436 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: in classical Rome. Rather than the standard gods with the 437 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: priesthood and open worship, the Good Goddess was worshiped in 438 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: a less formal fashion, similar to the Greek mystery colts. 439 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: The celebrations of Bonaday were not of the city's normal 440 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: ecclesiastical rights, and in fact they predated the earliest recorded 441 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: history of the city. Even her name was a secret, 442 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: known only to women and never recorded. She to have 443 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: a temple where only women were permitted entry, and every 444 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: year on the first day of May they would hold 445 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: a sacred celebration in this temple. This was one of 446 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: two such celebrations held throughout the year, but the second 447 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: in December was not held in the temple, instead was 448 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: hosted by the wife of the chief magistrate, with the 449 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: aid of Rome's sacred vestal virgins. The year, the chief 450 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: magistrate was Rome's high priest Caius Julius Caesar. Quite why 451 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: Claudius decided to infiltrate the Bonnadea festivities in sixty two 452 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: BCS a mystery. The main rumor at the time was 453 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: that he did it in an attempt to seduce the hostess, 454 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: Caesar's wife, Pompeia. The more likely reason is that he 455 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: did it in an attempt to win some credit with 456 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: Rome's bohemian set and set himself up as an iconoclast. 457 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: Whoever it was, he disguised himself as a woman and 458 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: slipped into the house. Unfortunately for him, Caesar's mother, Aurelia, 459 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: was there determined to make sure that things went smoothly, 460 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: and she immediately noticed this unusually tall and heavily cloaked women. 461 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: The right of Bonnadea was such a rare opportunity for 462 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: Roman women to throw off the chackles of propriety, and 463 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: as such, masking your identity like that was very unusual. Really, 464 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: had a servant girl follow Claudius, and she immediately noticed 465 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: when he let his voice slip. She called him out 466 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: on it, and he fled the scene. Though he was 467 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: not definitively identified, everyone knew it was Claudius. A public 468 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: outrage in his conduct, stoked by his brother in law, 469 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: led him to be formally charged with the sacrilege the 470 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: following year. The punishment for a man who witnessed the 471 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: mysteries of the Good Goddess was to be blinded. Just 472 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: cloud show ship and it's as a fun note, Caesar 473 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: divorces his wife after this, not because she'd done anything, 474 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: but because the fact that this guy was maybe trying 475 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: to fuck her means that people might suspect she'd done something, 476 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: and Caesar's wife has to be above suspicion. Oh my god, 477 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: he just wanted a divorce. Like these guys are all Again, 478 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: the cool thing about ancient Romans is like you could 479 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: among number one, you can make an incredible fucking like 480 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: uh like soap opera show that's just about the lives 481 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: of all these people they are like, uh, the just 482 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: just all very every one of these fucking people that 483 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: we've talked about would have had a reality show if TV. 484 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: Like Caesar. Caesar almost basically did kind of have the 485 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: equivalent of the reality show. So one of the things 486 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: that he's doing, he and he kind of comes to 487 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: power later in life. He doesn't have a lot of money, um, 488 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: so he has to work with crosses and stuff. But 489 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: when he gets his military command of gall number one, 490 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of because he's so old and hasn't really 491 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: distinguished himself politically. It's kind of like if Pete Boudagedge 492 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: suddenly got elected Supreme Commander of the of the U. 493 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: S Military and then and then conquered the entire Middle 494 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: East in five years, right like if like that, it's 495 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: kind of because that's what Caesar does, is he like 496 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: he's kind of a joke. He's this like silly asshole 497 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: that everybody's like laughing at and then he conquers all 498 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: of Western Europe like it is he's got not to 499 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: compare them, because Pete Boudage is useless and Julius Caesar 500 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: is very smart. But one of the things Caesar does 501 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: while he is conquer again all the fucking Europe, like 502 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: he like he's his in his minnor. He forces are 503 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: regularly outnumbered four and five to one by some accounts, 504 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: even more than that, Like he's an incredibly competent military leader. 505 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: While he's doing this, he's writing every day about what 506 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: he's doing and then sending his diary back to Rome 507 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: to be published and read out to people in the city. 508 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: So he's turning his life into the equivalent at the 509 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: time of a reality show to build a legend around 510 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: himself and to make himself into a popular figure. Like 511 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: he's kind of doing the Trump thing too, where it's like, yeah, 512 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: I've got this, I've got the most popular show in town. 513 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: Everybody shows up to listen to the latest pages of 514 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: Caesar's diary being read. I mean, how he's got to 515 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: do both, I guess, but yeah, he's very very Yeah 516 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: military victory. So Claudius goes to trial as to whether 517 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: or not he's gonna get blinded for like sneaking into 518 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: these these women's rights. Um. And he he doesn't get blinded, um, 519 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 1: but only because Caesar and Crasses back him and they 520 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: bribe the jury to acquit him. Prior to this, he'd 521 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: kind of been on the optimate side of things politically, 522 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: but he's now like a popular because Caesar and Crassis, 523 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: you know. Um. And this is kind of the start 524 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: of his his life as a creature of Caesar and 525 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: Crassus uh. Inft b C. He runs for election as 526 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: tribune of the police. Now, as we've talked about, this 527 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: is the veto job and it's very important. But also 528 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: it's a tribune of the police. You can't have this 529 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: job if you're a patrician, which Claudius is. So he 530 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: pays a guy who is four years younger than him 531 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: to adopt him as his son, like he pays a 532 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: poor man who's younger than him to adopt him as 533 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: his son and make him a plebeian. And then he 534 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: changes his name from c l a U d i 535 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: U S to c l O d i U S. 536 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's slightly different in Latin, but like he 537 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: basically changes it to a different spelling of Claudius to 538 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: symbolize that, like now I'm a commoner. Um. But the 539 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: been the main benefit. Number One, he can veto ship, 540 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: which since the grack eye, that's become like the thing 541 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: you do if you get a tribune on your side, 542 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: you can just stonewall everything. It's like the filibuster, right, 543 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: like you can stop anything from happening. You can just yeah, yeah, 544 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: that's ultimate he makes. He makes himself into the Joe Mansion. 545 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: But the other thing is that, like, because all of 546 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: Roman politics is determined via street fights, if you kill 547 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: the tribune of the Polabs any like tribunes are sacra 548 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: sank their sacred when they're holding office, so if you 549 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,719 Speaker 1: kill one, you are immediately put to death. So he 550 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: basically gains like a force field for himself in the 551 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: street So he's like Joe Mansion that he can shut 552 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: down politics. But also now he's got like that if 553 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: you touch me in a street fight, you get murdered, 554 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: Like it's a force field. Um. Again, they it's a 555 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: better system than we have, I think. So eventually the 556 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: Optimates get their own street fighter, UM, who is even 557 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: better than Claudius at building a gang of violent people 558 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: to murder folks for political purposes. And this is this 559 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: gangster named Milo, who is also pretty fucking rad. Um. 560 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: Milo is a is a hoot. So these two send 561 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: their goons to beat and murder people organizing for the 562 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: other sides. Assassinations and street fights grow to become like 563 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: a daily occurrence. There's basically a low level gang war 564 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: at all times all throughout the city of Rome, and 565 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: you never know if you're gonna get caught up in 566 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,239 Speaker 1: between these mobs of like armed young thugs just like 567 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: murdering people in the streets. Um. Now, these two street 568 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: gangs each kind of like represent a different political block, 569 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: but they also represent there's two angry young dudes who 570 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: hate each other in charge of them. So it's it's 571 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: very much both like a political proxy fight and also 572 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: just a street fight between two games that hate each other. Yeah, 573 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: it all comes to a head in fifty two BC 574 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: when Milo murders Claudius after beating him in a street fight. 575 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: And this is a real problem. Um Now, I bet 576 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: some people are wondering at this point as we talk 577 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: about all of this going on, where the funk are 578 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: the police in the right, because at this point in 579 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: Roman history there's like a million. There's close to a 580 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: million people in the city of Rome. It doesn't really 581 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: hit a million until I guess the first century a d. 582 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: But there's like probably six seven thousand or more people 583 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: living in the city at this point, which is there 584 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: will be no city in Eurasia with a population that's 585 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: similar in size until the eighteen hundreds, right, And this 586 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: is like fifty BC, you know. Um, So Rome is 587 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: able to get that big because it's very modern in 588 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. There's sewers, a lot of homes 589 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: have central heating, um, they have running water, um. But 590 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: one hallmark of modern life that roam lacked was anything 591 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: that vaguely resembled law enforcement. And I want to quote 592 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: from a writeup from Dr Linda Ellis here. Though the 593 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: government could usually cope with major disorders, personal violence plagued 594 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: the city under the Republic. The police powers of the 595 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: government were rudimentary, with few officials and limited staff trying 596 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: to maintain some semblance of order. So if you committed 597 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: a crime in Rome, like treason or fucking in the 598 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: money with the money that was serious, you would get 599 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: punished right, some high up elected official would like send 600 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 1: guys after you, right. Usually these were like guys known 601 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: as lictors, who are like basically, if you have political 602 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: office that comes with any kind of power, you get 603 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: these dudes who hang around you and they carry these 604 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: things called fascis, which are like a bundle of sticks 605 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: with an axe side to them, which is where we 606 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: get the word fascism, and you can send them to 607 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: do things and they basically have can speak with like 608 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: the power that you have. It's it's a way of 609 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: being like, well, you know, if I'm actually running this empire, 610 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: I might need to be making things happen in more 611 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: than one place. Service was a little more proactive kind 612 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: of but instead of like protecting you, their job is 613 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: mainly to go and like tell people to do things 614 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: on your behalf. So you can if like somebody does 615 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: some serious treason, there's the ability to kind of enforce 616 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: the law against them, but there's not cops. And so 617 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: like if if a popular or a wealthy guy like 618 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: murders somebody, they're not going to get punished in less 619 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: like the person they murder has more money than them. 620 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: And like friends who like range a mob to like 621 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: go and fight his supporters. UM and property crime is 622 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: not really a crime, it's a civil matter. As Dr 623 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: Linda Ellis writes, quote, when the average citizen of Rome 624 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: became a victim of crime, he had to rely on 625 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: his neighbors and relatives for help. Roman nobility could also 626 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: call up a mob of clients to do battle for them. 627 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: In rural areas of Italy, the situation was worse, and 628 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: landowners hired armed bands to protect themselves and intimidate their enemies. 629 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: There were even a few private armies of thugs at Rome. 630 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: Self help was always the main way to deal with 631 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: criminals in ancient Rome, and there was no concept of 632 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: public prosecution, so victims of crime or their families had 633 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: to organize and manage the prosecution themselves. So it's kind 634 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: of everybody doing the gang ship at this point, which is, 635 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, we'll talk about how it works, because in 636 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: some ways it works better than what's gonna come next, 637 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: in some ways it doesn't. But this again, it is 638 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: worth noting that like this is the system that like 639 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: a million people live under in the densest city in 640 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: the modern world. UM, and they mostly figure their ship 641 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: out now as we know in forty nine BC, the 642 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: tensions between the optimates and the popularities that have been 643 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: settled in the streets turned into open war. Right, you 644 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: get you get your Caesar. He crosses the Rubicon, which 645 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: is a river. He fights this big war with his 646 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: old friend Pompey, and Caesar wins, right, uh, And then 647 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: he gets the ship stabbed out of him. And then 648 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,959 Speaker 1: there's another horrible civil war between the people who had 649 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: killed Caesar and this kid who's related to him, who 650 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: he kind of like makes his inheritor named Augustus, and 651 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: Augustus wins this civil war and he winds up as 652 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: the emperor. Right, this is the history everybody knows. This 653 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: is like the most famous period of all of Roman history. 654 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: Cleopatra's in the mix for a while, then she's not, Yeah, 655 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: so the characters I've heard of, Yes, yeah, we're we're 656 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: now at the point in history everyone knows about it. 657 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about what Augustus does to deal with 658 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: the fact that, like when he takes power, everyone has 659 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: just gone through like a hundred and fifty straight years 660 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: of constant assassinations and like street fights and three different 661 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: civil wars that had all killed significant fractions of the 662 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: male populace of the Roman empire. Um, and they're kind 663 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: of tired of it. People like are not happy with 664 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: the status quo. Like, you know what, we're okay not 665 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: having any political power if you can stop everyone from 666 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: murdering everyone all the time. So that's that's what what 667 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: Augustus comes to power with, right. Um. And speaking of 668 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: murdering everyone, you know who's gonna murder you the podcast, 669 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: the sponsors of our podcast, they'll kill your ass. They will, Sophie, 670 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: They'll kill your ass. That's their promise that I know. 671 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: I don't. I didn't see that in ad copy or 672 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: the promo codes. Okay, well promo code A man is 673 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: coming to attack you in the night with a knife. Yeah, 674 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: well that sounds like a difference of opinion. Uh, we're back. 675 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: I wanna I wanna note one thing real quick here. 676 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: So we're we're recording this like the day after the 677 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: FBI rated Trump's house, which is a very funny moment. 678 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: Everybody's still enjoying it. You will be listening to this 679 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: in the future when um, the entirety yeah next yeah, 680 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,439 Speaker 1: gettysburg to and three have already happened by the time 681 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: you've heard this. Yes, there are no people left in Virginia. Um, yeah, 682 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: it's it's a nightmare. But anyway, so that the like 683 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: right after that happened, you get all these right wing 684 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: like media leaders and thought leaders started like saying ship 685 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: about like now the war is on, like get ready 686 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: to fight, fucking Stephen Crowder being like tomorrow we go 687 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: to war. My favorite quote that one of these ship 688 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: heads came put out is this guy Jesse Kelly, who is, 689 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: according to his Twitter, host of the nationally syndicated Jesse 690 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: Kelly Show, host of I'm Right, Um, and yeah, he's 691 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: some sort of anti communist piece of ship. He's got 692 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 1: like half a million followers on Twitters. Yeah, I think 693 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: I think he's a Fox News guy. Yeah, that seems right. 694 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: So his post when everybody's like fed posting on Maine 695 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: after Trump gets rated is do not quote laws to 696 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: men with swords attributed to Pompey Magnus. Now he likes 697 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: this because number one, they all fetishized weapons as doing 698 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: things that weapons don't, which is provide on their own 699 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: some sort of autonomy. Weapons are useless without organization, as 700 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: anything but like tools of either personal violence or u bullshittery. 701 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: But the other thing that he's doing is like this 702 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: is like that you can't govern us because we have 703 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: we have we're armed, right, Like that's the thing that 704 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: he's saying here. The funny thing about this number one 705 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: Pompey Magnus, as we've just covered, was a gigantic fraud 706 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: like literally like bullshit his way into like repeated military 707 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: commands and stuff. He's the same as like, I don't know, 708 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: those Republicans that get up on stage to do a 709 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: bunch of push ups to show that they're big with 710 00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: a gun or whatever. Yeah, exactly, exactly, Yeah, it's like 711 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: that sort of bullshit. Um. But the other thing that's 712 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: funny about this is that during the Civil War with Caesar, 713 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: Pompey gets his as kicked because against Caesar is really 714 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: good at fighting wars and Pompey is a gigantic fraud um. 715 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: And he gets captured by Ptolemy, who's the leader of 716 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,240 Speaker 1: Egypt at the time, who's like um allied with Caesar. 717 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: And while he's being sent as a prisoner to Caesar, 718 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,399 Speaker 1: Ptolemy has by some accounts, a fifteen year old boy 719 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: stab him to death and cut his head off and 720 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: then they stick it on a spear and parade it 721 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: through town. So, Jesse Kelly, that may not be the 722 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: guy at a hark to as like your your hero 723 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: of like kind of appropriate right wing Yeah, like politician, Yeah, 724 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: giant fraud who starts a fight and then gets murdered. Um, 725 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: very funny. So Augustus is the emperor, right, um, and 726 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: everyone is very tired of political violence because it has 727 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: just and on way too fucking long. Right. And this 728 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: is again, actually it's not entirely wrong to kind of 729 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: think about the political power that has kind of been gained, 730 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: not that these are too similar, but like the the 731 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: political power that has accrued, especially in the last few 732 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: years around gun control, as a result of like exhaustion 733 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 1: at the constant spread of massacres. It's not entirely different. 734 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,879 Speaker 1: Because all these people in Rome, they've had a lot, 735 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: most of them have lost family in these fucking fights. 736 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: It's this constant drumbeat of violence and these constant series 737 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: of civil wars, and they're just like fucking exhausted. And 738 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: so the one of the reasons Augustus is able to 739 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: take and hold power is that he promises and delivers. 740 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to put a stop to that ship. Right, 741 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: We're not gonna have to deal with this anymore. And 742 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: that is a pretty enticing thing for people at this 743 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: point in Roman history. Um. Now, different leaders had attempted 744 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: to deal with Roman mob violence prior to Augustus. When 745 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: Pompey took over the city during the Civil War, he 746 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: had brought his armed soldiers into Rome, crossing the Pomarium 747 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: illegal in order to restore order and put an end 748 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: to lawlessness. And while Pompey had let his soldiers violate 749 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: sacred law by taking weapons into the city, he had 750 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: banned the private ownership of weaponry within the city, which 751 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: happens several times in Roman history and never actually happens. 752 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: Right again, it's it's pretty you could just like take 753 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: a chair leg right like it's it's not like what 754 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: the weapons we're talking about. You can't really ban because 755 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: people are just like making like sure, yeah, exactly, yeah, 756 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: And people are gonna have roof tiles that you can 757 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: hocket folks. You know, um, slings are not hard to 758 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: make a leather glove glove with like metal anyway, it's 759 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: not hard. So when Augustus takes power, though, he expands 760 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: the ban on private ownership of weaponry. He bans the 761 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: carrying of arms during assemblies or judicial proceedings. Um. And 762 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: eventually he passes a law known as the Lex Julia 763 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: de v Um, which makes it illegal to carry weapons 764 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: for any reason in the Empire outside of hunting or 765 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: personal protection when you're traveling between in cities. Right. Um. So, 766 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: in addition to this, he establishes the first police force, 767 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: the first police force of any kind anywhere in the 768 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: Western world. Now, different regimes had all had ways of 769 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: like dealing with descent or cracking down on stuff. There 770 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: had been stuff that was kind of policy. The Spartans 771 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: half essentially their version of like a fugitive slave patrol 772 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,280 Speaker 1: and stuff. Um. But what Augustus builds is very different. 773 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 1: Among other things, it is a permanent armed force in 774 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: the city of Rome itself, which had never happened before, right, 775 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: And so this is part of one of the things 776 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: that makes Rome has always kind of been ungovernable. And 777 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: so this is as ugly as it gets. It's also 778 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: a check to the power of the aristocracy because they 779 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: can never hold too much power, because at any moment 780 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: the Bob could get angry and just murder everyone because 781 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: there's way too many of them and there's no army 782 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: in Rome to stop them. Right, So it's just like, 783 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: how big are your gangs? Are they bigger than everyone 784 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: else in the city? You know they're not, So you 785 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: can't do certain things now. He because the police force 786 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: he built, their primary job is not stopping crime or 787 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: investigating murders. They're riot cops, right, that's what he puts 788 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: into the city. He calls them urban cohorts because like 789 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: cohort is a military unit, right, kind of broadly equivalent 790 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: to like, I don't know, battalion almost um. In modern 791 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 1: military terms, these urban cohorts are military units commanded and 792 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: organized similarly to the regular military legions, which operate under 793 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: the military chain of command. They are militarized police, and 794 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: their job is to put down riots, to corral the 795 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: power of the mob, and to make street combat and 796 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: coup's basically impossible. Um. Again, they don't handle petty crime. 797 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: They don't do anything if your home is invaded or 798 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: if like your kids murdered or whatever. So they're they're 799 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 1: the same as cops today. Actually, there's there's a lot 800 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,839 Speaker 1: of similarities between them and they're heavily. Again, these are 801 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: militarized police. Now this is like the urban cohorts are 802 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: like the daytime cops, and then there's nighttime law and 803 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: part of what they're doing is law and forcement. Um. 804 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 1: They're called card the Vigils, which is where we get 805 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: the word vigilante, even though they're not really vigilantes um. 806 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,399 Speaker 1: And the Vigils are initially just a fire brigade. They're 807 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: made up of freedmen who knew how to fight fires, 808 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: and their job is to like be distributed through the 809 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: cities that when a fire starts, you can get a 810 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: team of guys there to try to stop it, right 811 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: because again, the biggest thing that Romans have to worry 812 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: with on a day to day basis is fire. Um. 813 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: So because like while you're I'm actually just gonna quote 814 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 1: from Dr Linda Ellis here to talk about like how 815 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: what these guys do evolves over time. At first, the 816 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: Vigils functioned primarily as a firefighting force, since the main 817 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,280 Speaker 1: threat to cities then and now was destructioned by uncontrolled fire. 818 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: They were equipped with water pumps, buckets, and axes for 819 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: breaking down the doors of houses on fire or suspected 820 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: of being a fire risk. Artillery was used to shoot 821 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: dampening materials onto fires and to create the fire breaks 822 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: by leveling buildings. The vigils patrolled the city at night 823 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,439 Speaker 1: and had the right of entry into private homes, which 824 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,760 Speaker 1: put them in the position of witnessing crime and taking 825 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: on the role of policemen, from capturing thieves, returning runaway 826 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: slaves to maintaining public order. So they have the right 827 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: to go into your home because we have to be 828 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: able to make sure you're not starting a fire that 829 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: you can't keep more that like a fire is and started, 830 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: that you haven't fallen asleep or whatever, and like your 831 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 1: your house is burning down. But because of this, now 832 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,439 Speaker 1: we're allowed to do no knock raids on your house 833 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: if we think it might be a fire. What if 834 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 1: we see a crime, we have to have the ability 835 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: to like prosecute a crime too, And so they kind 836 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: of become cops because they have the ability to bust 837 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: into anybody's house for any reason. Um. So this is 838 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,280 Speaker 1: so it's so interesting that that like that characteristic begets 839 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: the job and not the other way around. It is 840 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: really interesting, right because it's very because our policy It's 841 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: not how I would have assumed that, but it makes sense. 842 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 1: It's like that power creates the become police. And it's 843 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 1: interesting because like in in our system, our police, who 844 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: are thugs came out of fugitive slave patrols, which were 845 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: just a worse kind of thug. In this case, the 846 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 1: polace come out of an absolutely necessary job. You're gonna 847 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,280 Speaker 1: have a fucking million people in a city in zero 848 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: a SBC, you need professional firefighter's right underwise it's just suicide. 849 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: But kind of you get how this like evolves and 850 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,919 Speaker 1: then they become cops because like, well, like this guy's 851 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: breaking the low? What am I supposed to Are we 852 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 1: supposed to just let this happen? Um? You know, it's interesting. Yeah, 853 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: it is really different though from what you would expect. Um. 854 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: So the birth of this and this is this is 855 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: a fairly advanced law enforcement force. Right, Like, if you're 856 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: thinking about what's around at the time, you've got these 857 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: are that like at any given time, thousands upon thousands 858 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: of heavily armed men, like the Vigils have artillery. They 859 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,240 Speaker 1: have catapults and ship which they used to fight fires, 860 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: but which can also be turned to like fight riots. Which, 861 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: by the way, I would have loved to watch these 862 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,720 Speaker 1: guys fight a fire because I want to see people 863 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: like stop a fire with a fucking catapult. Um, it's 864 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,360 Speaker 1: pretty cool. Ship. But so, one of the things that 865 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: this does is you've got this advance law enforcement force. 866 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: You've disarmed the city. The only people with weapons are 867 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: these cops. One of the things that this makes a 868 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: hell of a lot easier is the state can enforce 869 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: on popular laws. Now you think back to Lucretia, right, 870 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: Romans get rid of their first or their last king 871 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,879 Speaker 1: because like there's this stupid ass law and he does, 872 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 1: like his son does a horrible thing rape somebody in 873 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: the stupid ass law leaves in the even worst situation, 874 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 1: and everybody's really angry about it. And because the mob 875 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: is the mob, they are able to like kick the 876 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: king out, and that's how the republic starts. That's not 877 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 1: gonna be possible. Nothing like that is anymore, um, because 878 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,359 Speaker 1: now you have riot cops in the city. Um. So 879 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: it's really easy for the state to force people to 880 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 1: accept laws that are unpopular. A good example of this 881 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,959 Speaker 1: during the reign of Nero, the mayor basically of Rome 882 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: is murdered by one of his slaves. Now they can't 883 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 1: figure out who did it, right, they don't know which 884 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: slave there's no is one of the people he owns 885 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: in his household, but he's got hunt ruds. I think 886 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: this might might have had like like a thousand or more, 887 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,320 Speaker 1: like a shipload of slaves, like a fucking small town 888 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: worth of slaves. Now, under Roman law, if you can't 889 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 1: figure out which specific slave did it, you have to 890 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: execute the entire household, every man, woman and child in 891 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 1: a lot of these slaves or kids who lives with 892 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: this guy. Um. Now, everyone in Rome when this happens 893 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: is fucking horrified by this, And in fact, stuff like 894 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: this had happened in the past, and it had provoked 895 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: riots which had often stopped this sort of justice from 896 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: being carried out in full right because people Romans, they 897 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 1: don't think slaves are like less human right, they have 898 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:36,959 Speaker 1: less rights due to what they believe is a pretty 899 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,839 Speaker 1: natural political condition. But they're still horrified at the thought 900 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,279 Speaker 1: if you're gonna kill like five people because like one 901 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 1: of them is a murderer, and like you're gonna murder 902 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of kids, Like that's fucked up My dad 903 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: was a slave by Grandpa was a slave. Like. I 904 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,240 Speaker 1: don't think this is right. And in the past Romans 905 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: attempting to like Roman leaders attempting to carry out these 906 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,840 Speaker 1: laws in order to maintain the status quo, would have 907 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: had to like funk up a bunch of people to 908 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 1: do it, um, and would have been put at risk 909 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 1: by doing it. That doesn't happen anymore. Um. By the 910 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,120 Speaker 1: time Nero was empowered, the vigils on the oven urban 911 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: cohorts are professionalized. They're very good at stopping descent, and 912 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 1: so a huge show of force is sent out by 913 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: the police state as the Romans move in to execute 914 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,520 Speaker 1: these slaves. As English historian P. KB. Reynolds wrote in 915 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: his nineteen paper on Ancient Roman policing quote, the law 916 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: was upheld, however on this occasion, but elaborate police precautions 917 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,760 Speaker 1: were necessary when the sentence was to be carried out. 918 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: So because they have this powerful police force, the mob 919 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: cannot act to stop an injustice, right because they just 920 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,720 Speaker 1: get the ship murdered out of them by the cops. Um. 921 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: And it's interesting, Reynolds, this is a very fascinating paper. 922 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: I recommend reading it if you're interested. In ancient Rome, 923 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: right after talking about how the birth of policing made 924 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 1: it possible to massacre all of these kids. Uh, he 925 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: goes on to write that quote, it is not really 926 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 1: going too far to say that in the medal of 927 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: matter of police services, it was not until the beginning 928 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century that the cities of Europe regained 929 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,279 Speaker 1: the standards of civilization which had existed in the Roman 930 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: Empire years before. It took us two thousand years almost 931 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: to get back to having cops who can make this 932 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: kind of thing possible. What an achievement. Yeah, that's the pinnacle. Yeah, 933 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, yeah, so right, it's like like the 934 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: mob rule or the not mob rule, but like the 935 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: ability of mobs to enact like some sort of or 936 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: like put it to you know, to act as a 937 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,280 Speaker 1: check against like state power and the power of the rich. Ideally, Yeah, 938 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: that's jury nullification now. But yeah, and again everybody, especially 939 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: when you because I I made the probable mistake of 940 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 1: like bringing up you know, guns and assault weapons and 941 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,360 Speaker 1: and and that debate in this whenever we want to 942 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 1: like talk about ancient ship and like apply it to 943 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 1: modern terms, there's a desire to have like a simple answer, 944 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: and there just isn't because like, yeah, constant mob warfare 945 00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: was really bad. The establishment of a police state was 946 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: also really bad. Yeah, and I think it is. I 947 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 1: think there are things to learn about this, about like 948 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: the dangers and whatnot of different political things that you 949 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: can do. But I think it is fundamentally silly to 950 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: like try to run to direct aligned. This is two 951 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,320 Speaker 1: thousand years ago. But it is like it is worth 952 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,920 Speaker 1: noting that, like, okay, you give up the ability of 953 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: the people to check the state's power and then so 954 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,319 Speaker 1: the state can enforce much less and that is something 955 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,680 Speaker 1: that is worth noting. Yeah, and that that's constant gang 956 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,880 Speaker 1: warfare is good either. Yeah, I mean it is like 957 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,239 Speaker 1: like this is how apartheid states like the ones we 958 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 1: currently live in. Yet like you know, we are currently 959 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,919 Speaker 1: ruled by a racist, white nationalist minority and they are 960 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 1: able to do but you know, yeah, it's hard to 961 00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,760 Speaker 1: know if the alternative is better. Yeah, it's just it's 962 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 1: it's just worth talking about this history without trying to 963 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,839 Speaker 1: like and so this is why you should vote this 964 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 1: way on this lot two thousand years later, let's just 965 00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,160 Speaker 1: talk about Yeah, um again, I am not try ang 966 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: to Like, I'm really not trying to just make like 967 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,320 Speaker 1: a coy political point. I just think it's actually worth 968 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: studying this if you want to think about the problems 969 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: inherent to uh society. Like it's just good to know 970 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 1: this stuff. So, of course, you're not just gonna stop 971 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 1: people from objecting to tyranny because you have a bunch 972 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: of armed thugs who can crack heads in the street. 973 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: You're going to also need a secret police force, right 974 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: obviously you know Um and Augustus actually established two secret 975 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: police forces. Now, one is kind of informal basically, because 976 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 1: you have this pretty big empire and you have all 977 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,839 Speaker 1: these military units spread around, you have like a supply service, right, 978 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,239 Speaker 1: who needs to like take messages from like oh, these 979 00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 1: guys up in fucking France or these guys all the 980 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,879 Speaker 1: way down in Jerusalem have like you know, they need 981 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 1: more of spears, they need more shields, and like, I've 982 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 1: got to take that information. I gotta get it to 983 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,240 Speaker 1: this guy. I gotta get You have like supply runners, 984 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,120 Speaker 1: and they're literally like riding horses and like physically moving 985 00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:59,200 Speaker 1: around cities to carry messages. And so naturally he turns 986 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,360 Speaker 1: these guys who are called frumentary I into a secret 987 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,720 Speaker 1: service right into like his his spies because they're traveling 988 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,279 Speaker 1: everywhere and nobody pays much attention to them. Um, so 989 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,319 Speaker 1: they're a pretty good pick to act as like your Hey, 990 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,279 Speaker 1: you can keep an eye on things. Tell me if 991 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,600 Speaker 1: like unrest is boiling up, you can be a spy 992 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,319 Speaker 1: basically because you have the ability to go anywhere you 993 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: know um Reynolds rights quote. The Emperor Hadrian, we are told, 994 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,799 Speaker 1: knew all secrets through the frumentary I. And as the 995 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,880 Speaker 1: Empire became more despotic, so the activities of the frumentary 996 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: I multiplied, and the persecutions of the Christians. It was 997 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: the frumentary I who searched men out and who affected arrests. 998 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,799 Speaker 1: Probably to the soldier who guarded St. Paul was a frumentarius. 999 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 1: And if the Emperor desired the speedy removal of a 1000 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,120 Speaker 1: prominent noble against whom it might be dangerous to proceed openly, 1001 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,880 Speaker 1: the frumentari I were employed to carry out the deed. 1002 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: In fact, they performed all the dirty work that has 1003 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,840 Speaker 1: always fallen to a lot of the secret police and 1004 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,120 Speaker 1: an absolute despotism. There were so efficient in their work 1005 00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,919 Speaker 1: that they incurred universal hatred, and historian of the third 1006 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,359 Speaker 1: century complains that they trannize over us, and later writer 1007 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: bitterly calls them a pestilent crew and in another passage 1008 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,759 Speaker 1: the plague of the Roman world. In response to this 1009 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: general odium, the Emperor Diocletian disbanded them at the end 1010 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,640 Speaker 1: of the third century, but their duties were far too 1011 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 1: important for the emperors to be able to dispense with 1012 00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,880 Speaker 1: their services, and a new core was soon enrolled, especially 1013 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,240 Speaker 1: designed as a secret police. This new force blue aboard 1014 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,920 Speaker 1: the curious title of Agents for Affairs, which was sufficiently 1015 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: vague to cover their manifold activities. But the agents were 1016 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,440 Speaker 1: soon no better than their predecessors, and as early as 1017 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 1: the middle of the fourth century the Emperor Julian had 1018 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,160 Speaker 1: had to reprove their corruption, and soon they had just 1019 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,520 Speaker 1: as bad a name as the frumentary. I so that's 1020 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 1: pretty cool. That's a pretty cool bit of history right there. 1021 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,280 Speaker 1: There's just no way, right, I guess. The lesson, of course, 1022 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,799 Speaker 1: is like that kind of power necessarily creates, Yeah, these 1023 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,160 Speaker 1: fucking evil people. Yeah, only bad people want that job, 1024 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,359 Speaker 1: and they do bad ms when they get it. It's 1025 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,279 Speaker 1: also worth like again, go back to the Gracchi. When 1026 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: some rich people want to kill a guy, they just 1027 00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: have to fucking hire up and murder him in the street, 1028 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,720 Speaker 1: and everybody knows what's happened, right, It's real fucking clear 1029 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: what goes down. And because of how much they've pissed 1030 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,719 Speaker 1: people off, they have to like give people a bunch 1031 00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: of what they had asked for and the stuff, even 1032 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,839 Speaker 1: though they murdered the guy. Now you just have one 1033 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,799 Speaker 1: of these fucking spooks kill him, right, Like, now you've 1034 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 1: got like the the Emperor's fucking spooks. You can kill 1035 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: him and nobody's allowed to talk about it or ask 1036 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,240 Speaker 1: about it. It's not obvious what's happened, you know. Um 1037 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,000 Speaker 1: so the last and most powerful police agency in ancient 1038 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,479 Speaker 1: Rome where the Praetorian Guard. In some way, these guys 1039 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 1: are the evolution of mobs of armed supporters who tried 1040 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: to protect to protect Tiberius, Gracchus and the gangs run 1041 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: by Milo and Claudius. You know, during the civil wars, 1042 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: all of these guys who are fighting each other had 1043 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,360 Speaker 1: like units of bodyguards that are like the toughest soldiers 1044 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,280 Speaker 1: they've got, and Augustus had formed his into an elite 1045 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,160 Speaker 1: military unit which started like five thousand men and eventually 1046 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,400 Speaker 1: becomes like nine thousand guys. And these were during the 1047 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 1: Civil Wars, just like his shock troops, right, but they 1048 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,479 Speaker 1: become his like elite riot force, right because the urban 1049 00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,760 Speaker 1: cohorts are just three thousand men um and the legions 1050 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,400 Speaker 1: are rarely in Italy, so the Praetorians are always the 1051 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 1: strongest armed force near the center of power. So Augustus 1052 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,120 Speaker 1: keeps like two thirds of them in the city of Rome, 1053 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,239 Speaker 1: ready to crack heads when heads need cracking, and he 1054 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,880 Speaker 1: sends a third of them elsewhere in the Italian peninsula 1055 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,879 Speaker 1: to like garrison different hotspots. Uh. And they basically act 1056 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: as like secret police, referring back to him, making sure 1057 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,880 Speaker 1: no one in the Some of them take up jobs 1058 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,960 Speaker 1: in the in the military and stuff in order to 1059 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,680 Speaker 1: like be able to report back on what's going on. Uh. 1060 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,760 Speaker 1: And then the words of historian guide de Bellier quote 1061 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,560 Speaker 1: minimize the impression that he depended on them. Instead, the 1062 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,759 Speaker 1: guard depended on Augustus no emperor meant no jobs and 1063 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,480 Speaker 1: no special status. Because these guys get a shipload of 1064 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,479 Speaker 1: extra money for doing what they're doing, right, They're paid 1065 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,080 Speaker 1: very very well in order to keep the emperor in power. 1066 00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,000 Speaker 1: So guard officers also occupied roles in the urban cohort. 1067 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,120 Speaker 1: It's uh and undercover praetorians could pop up anywhere, so 1068 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: they're like the mixed between the FBI and the Secret Service. 1069 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,319 Speaker 1: It could also be used to assassinate political rivals, but 1070 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,000 Speaker 1: as Guy points out quote, this state of affairs was 1071 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,640 Speaker 1: reliant upon the emperor having enough prestige and power to 1072 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,400 Speaker 1: contain the guard. Augustus had created potentially the most dangerous 1073 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,960 Speaker 1: institution the Roman world had ever seen, and his monumental 1074 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. Edward Gibbon 1075 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,040 Speaker 1: described this brilliantly. By thus introducing the praetorian guards, as 1076 00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,320 Speaker 1: it were, into the palace and the Senate. The emperors 1077 00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,640 Speaker 1: taught them to perceive their own strength and the weakness 1078 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,960 Speaker 1: of the civil government, to view the vices of their 1079 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: masters with familiar contempt, and to lay aside that reverential 1080 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,319 Speaker 1: awe which distance only and mystery can preserve, towards an 1081 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:45,000 Speaker 1: imaginary power, and this luxurious idleness of an opulent city. 1082 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,080 Speaker 1: Their pride was nourished by the sense of their irresistible weight, 1083 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,480 Speaker 1: nor was it possible to conceal from them that the 1084 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,880 Speaker 1: person of the sovereign, the authority of the Senate, the 1085 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,239 Speaker 1: public treasure, and the seat of empire were all in 1086 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,440 Speaker 1: their hands. So eventually these guys start to start to 1087 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,640 Speaker 1: come out as I serve at the like I'm here 1088 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: to protect the Emperor. I only have a position because 1089 00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: at him. They realize eventually like, well, a lot of 1090 00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,359 Speaker 1: these emperors are incompetent. The sentence much of corrupt, rich, 1091 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,360 Speaker 1: lazy assholes. We have the only weapons, right, we have 1092 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,200 Speaker 1: the capital and the only weapons. Why don't we just 1093 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:23,040 Speaker 1: run things right? Um? Yeah, So, as time goes on, 1094 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: all the different law enforcement arms of Roman society kind 1095 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,920 Speaker 1: of realized that their powers have made them unstoppable bandits, 1096 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,360 Speaker 1: and that's what they become. As Dr Ellis writes, quote, 1097 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: the Roman police and military forces often to abuse their 1098 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,279 Speaker 1: power and status, such as property seizure without compensation and 1099 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: physical violence to civilians. The axes used by the Vigils 1100 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,239 Speaker 1: and other troops were used to break down doors and 1101 00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,840 Speaker 1: abuse people both in the street and in their own houses. 1102 00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,240 Speaker 1: The Roman offered juvenal provided a dark picture of police 1103 00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,319 Speaker 1: soldier civilian relations in Rome. If a civilian was beaten 1104 00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,759 Speaker 1: up by the soldiers slash police. He was better off 1105 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,880 Speaker 1: forgetting about it, because if he complained, there would be 1106 00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,000 Speaker 1: a trial under recent Churian and in front of a 1107 00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,560 Speaker 1: jury of soldiers. No witnesses would dare come forward, otherwise 1108 00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,479 Speaker 1: they would have other soldiers exact retribution. Epichectus, a Greek 1109 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,879 Speaker 1: philosopher at the time, advised that if a soldier wanted 1110 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,520 Speaker 1: a mule, it was best to give it to him, 1111 00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,759 Speaker 1: because if not given, the person would have lost it 1112 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,080 Speaker 1: anyway and would have been beaten up in the process. 1113 00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,240 Speaker 1: Now we could talk about civil asset forfeit, cherry and true. 1114 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:26,000 Speaker 1: We can talk about how often cops, particularly take cars 1115 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 1: from people. We're back, We're back to America. Yeah, they 1116 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,760 Speaker 1: did it first, baby. No, it is like truly shocking 1117 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,800 Speaker 1: how many things that are horrible that we are absolutely 1118 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,560 Speaker 1: no better than they. It's all it's all the same ship, right, 1119 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,600 Speaker 1: And it's all the same ship because when you say 1120 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,080 Speaker 1: we are building a separate class of people who will 1121 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,440 Speaker 1: be able to live very comfortably in order to as 1122 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,000 Speaker 1: long as they stopped the poor from fucking with the rich. 1123 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,560 Speaker 1: And also they're the only people who have the right 1124 00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,320 Speaker 1: to to use force in our society, they always turn 1125 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,720 Speaker 1: out to be assholes, right, because only assholes want that job, 1126 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,720 Speaker 1: you know. Um okay, uh speaking of things, only assholes 1127 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:20,920 Speaker 1: want products and services that support our podcast. Fact. Ah, 1128 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:31,080 Speaker 1: we're back. Ye a bunch of pricks. What's up our listeners? Yeah, 1129 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: what's up pricks? That's right, they deserve it. Yeah, all right. 1130 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,400 Speaker 1: So we're talking about like the Roman police state here, 1131 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,800 Speaker 1: which I don't think most people realize. Everyone knows, like, yeah, 1132 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,200 Speaker 1: Rome that it became an empire, Like you assume that, 1133 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,200 Speaker 1: like it's a brutal, autocratic dictatorship, but like it is 1134 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,600 Speaker 1: a modern police state, and I want to talk about 1135 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:52,280 Speaker 1: how pervasive it truly was. Dr Ellis gives a really 1136 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:56,360 Speaker 1: good job of like laying out the how heavily policed 1137 00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,560 Speaker 1: the city of Rome was. So she points out that 1138 00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,440 Speaker 1: Chicago today and her data is two thousand eighteen, is 1139 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,720 Speaker 1: the third most populous city in the United States, with 1140 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:08,960 Speaker 1: two point seven million people and five hundred cops. Ish, right, 1141 00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,520 Speaker 1: that's Chicago more or less today. Rome, at the height 1142 00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,880 Speaker 1: of the empire, is a million people. They have a 1143 00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,480 Speaker 1: police force of seven thousand vigils, three thousand urban cohorts, 1144 00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,760 Speaker 1: cavalry attached to the urban cohorts, and roughly six thousand 1145 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,520 Speaker 1: Praetorian guards in the city. So that's about three times 1146 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,400 Speaker 1: as many police per capita as a heavily policed city 1147 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:34,720 Speaker 1: in the United States today. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I 1148 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,680 Speaker 1: guess it's a little bit mitigated by you know, they 1149 00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:43,280 Speaker 1: don't have nearly the kind of technological centralized their per 1150 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,840 Speaker 1: views and is wide you know it is it is 1151 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,520 Speaker 1: worth noting how heavily the city is. They have gone 1152 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,840 Speaker 1: from at the start of this a city where nobody 1153 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,680 Speaker 1: gets to have a weapon, a military weapon in town, 1154 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,160 Speaker 1: to a city that is like garrisoned by a heavy 1155 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,160 Speaker 1: military guard at all times. Now, the first member of 1156 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,600 Speaker 1: the Praetorian Guard to attempt to take total power for 1157 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,120 Speaker 1: himself was say Hannus, head of the Guard under Tiberius, 1158 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,640 Speaker 1: who ruled from a d. Fourteen to thirty seven. Now 1159 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,880 Speaker 1: say Hannus was caught before he could carry out his 1160 01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,840 Speaker 1: plans and execute it along with his family, and Tiberius 1161 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,160 Speaker 1: actually lets the people of Rome riot and murder his 1162 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:20,960 Speaker 1: family and supporters. Um, just like give him some fun, uh. 1163 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:25,040 Speaker 1: And the Praetorian Guard. Yeah, this time, the Guard stay 1164 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,120 Speaker 1: out of it like they don't defend their old leader 1165 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,040 Speaker 1: because they're like, this isn't gonna go well for us. 1166 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,680 Speaker 1: The emperor is still too powerful. Still, that's gonna change 1167 01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,320 Speaker 1: in a d forty one when Caligula gets murdered by 1168 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,120 Speaker 1: officers of the Praetorian Guard for being a funked up 1169 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,280 Speaker 1: little weirdo. Now, when Caligula gets murdered by the Praetorian Guard, 1170 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,720 Speaker 1: there's this it's not very old like the empire, and 1171 01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,120 Speaker 1: so there's still strong memories of the republic, and a 1172 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:49,920 Speaker 1: lot of people are like, maybe we should go back 1173 01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,880 Speaker 1: to having a republic emperor. Seemed like a bad idea, 1174 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,760 Speaker 1: But the Praetorian Guard is like, well, you don't need 1175 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,280 Speaker 1: a praetorian guard if you've got no emperor. So how 1176 01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,960 Speaker 1: about we just force you to accept an emperor of 1177 01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 1: that we've picked um, and they pick a guy named Claudius, 1178 01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,480 Speaker 1: who is a pretty interesting character himself. Um. I would 1179 01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,040 Speaker 1: like to talk more about him, but we just don't 1180 01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:11,760 Speaker 1: have the time, so instead I'm in a quote from 1181 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,400 Speaker 1: Guy de la Bellier who writes Claudius was declared emperor 1182 01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,760 Speaker 1: by the praetorians and no one including the Senate was 1183 01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,840 Speaker 1: in any position to argue the praetorians jobs were secure. 1184 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,280 Speaker 1: Claudius was reluctant emperor and turned out to be a 1185 01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,880 Speaker 1: good deal more competent than his family thought him capable of. 1186 01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,000 Speaker 1: It's even possible that Claudius had been in on the 1187 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,040 Speaker 1: plans all along. Gold and silver coins were issued welcoming 1188 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,520 Speaker 1: the new emperor and he them or showing the guard 1189 01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,560 Speaker 1: welcoming the new emperor, and he them um and he 1190 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,760 Speaker 1: like pays them a bunch of money. It's it's unclear 1191 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,600 Speaker 1: exactly what has happened. He's a relatively good emperor, but 1192 01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,200 Speaker 1: over time they stopped backing because again, you don't want 1193 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,680 Speaker 1: the emperor to be any good. You want him to 1194 01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,840 Speaker 1: be a figurehead for you. And this all kind of 1195 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 1: comes to a head in one a d after the 1196 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,000 Speaker 1: murder of Marcus Aurelius, his son Commodus, who is the 1197 01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,080 Speaker 1: bad guy in the movie Gladiator. Um yes, so after 1198 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,200 Speaker 1: after Russell Crowe kills him, he's actually killed by the 1199 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 1: Praetorian Guard um so in in in previous into regnums, 1200 01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,320 Speaker 1: like the death of Nero, the guard had generally kind 1201 01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,200 Speaker 1: of like gone with whoever has those power and money 1202 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,320 Speaker 1: to be the next emperor after Commodist dies, they like 1203 01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,919 Speaker 1: go to all the rich people in Rome and they're like, hey, 1204 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,440 Speaker 1: how much money you will pay to the emperor. Like 1205 01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,160 Speaker 1: they literally auction off the throne of the Roman Empire 1206 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,400 Speaker 1: to the highest bidder, who winds up being some rich 1207 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,600 Speaker 1: asshole who gets murdered. Two months later. He gets replaced 1208 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:35,480 Speaker 1: by another guy, Septimus Severus, who this guy, uh, this 1209 01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,880 Speaker 1: fucking guy. UM fires the republican or the Praetorian Guard finally, 1210 01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,840 Speaker 1: and he makes a new Praetorian Guard that he hopes 1211 01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,840 Speaker 1: to be less corrupt, and they immediately grow corrupt and 1212 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,000 Speaker 1: do the same thing. Um. Over the course of the empire, 1213 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:53,640 Speaker 1: thirteen emperors are assassinated by the Praetorian guards. It's really 1214 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,440 Speaker 1: like you let that you let that tiger into your house. 1215 01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,920 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, Yeah, and you know the stuff that was 1216 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:03,800 Speaker 1: in your house prior to letting the tiger and wasn't 1217 01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,600 Speaker 1: pleasant either, Whether or not do you think this was progress? 1218 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,120 Speaker 1: I did. I'm glad you brought up a gladiator, because 1219 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,800 Speaker 1: I did. I did want to pitch the idea of 1220 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:19,080 Speaker 1: um a double feature of the Ridley Scott Italian screaming 1221 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:23,919 Speaker 1: in each other. Uh double feature of Gladiator and House 1222 01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:32,400 Speaker 1: of Gucci. Yeah, just Italians yelling. Italians never change, and 1223 01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,000 Speaker 1: that is that is the message of the show. Italians 1224 01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,720 Speaker 1: and police the same two thousand years ago as they 1225 01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:44,840 Speaker 1: are today. Um. Anyway, that's the story of how the 1226 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,920 Speaker 1: Romans became a police state. And God, that is fucking 1227 01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,520 Speaker 1: genuinely very depressing. It's it's pretty fucked up. Um, you 1228 01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,880 Speaker 1: know we're condensing a lot of history here, but that's 1229 01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,720 Speaker 1: the god sweep of it. But yeah, an angle I 1230 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,760 Speaker 1: had never really considered. But yeah, that tons of science 1231 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,320 Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah, you know, you've got this 1232 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,920 Speaker 1: this situation of like political violence that makes everybody be 1233 01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,400 Speaker 1: like will do anything to stop it? And then the 1234 01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,200 Speaker 1: thing that stops it is the establishment of a militarized 1235 01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:18,320 Speaker 1: police force who then take power and spend centuries doing 1236 01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:23,520 Speaker 1: violence to people. But it also works for a long time. Yeah, 1237 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean it works for a long time. Yeah, it's 1238 01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:31,800 Speaker 1: never like clear enough like how bad this ship is. 1239 01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,760 Speaker 1: And again it's too late for this because it would 1240 01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,880 Speaker 1: be easy to either be like, well, this is why 1241 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 1: no one should ever have cops, because they inherently funk 1242 01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:43,400 Speaker 1: everything up or this is why people shouldn't be allowed 1243 01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:45,640 Speaker 1: to have weapons, because you know that what happens in 1244 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,479 Speaker 1: the Mormon Republic happens right, right, But if you're trying 1245 01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,960 Speaker 1: to find though either of those easy answers, either this 1246 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,920 Speaker 1: is why everyone should be armed, is why everyone should 1247 01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,360 Speaker 1: be disarmed. This is why we should have cops. Is 1248 01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,280 Speaker 1: what we shouldn't have cops. Well, both of these systems 1249 01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:01,040 Speaker 1: lasted like five years and conquered the entire world. It's 1250 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:05,240 Speaker 1: like there we just there's not enough data and it's 1251 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,360 Speaker 1: it's just like it's you know, there's stuff to take 1252 01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,320 Speaker 1: out of this for the future, but don't try not 1253 01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,760 Speaker 1: to take too much because again, both of these as 1254 01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,120 Speaker 1: as silly and funked up as everything is, both of 1255 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:18,480 Speaker 1: these systems on a historic level work really fucking well, right, 1256 01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,040 Speaker 1: Like that is kind of the conquered the world. Yeah, well, 1257 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,200 Speaker 1: I mean probably the main thing is that just sort 1258 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,720 Speaker 1: of tells you it's just that part of it is irrelevant. Yeah, 1259 01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,640 Speaker 1: there's other stuff going on, military things, and what I mean, 1260 01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,640 Speaker 1: maybe not entirely, because like I guess partly like the 1261 01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:39,440 Speaker 1: fact that Roman politics is in the Republican period is 1262 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,240 Speaker 1: so like cutthroat means that a lot of the people 1263 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,520 Speaker 1: who wind up in charge after a certain point are 1264 01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,840 Speaker 1: like pretty canny sons of bitches, but also some really 1265 01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,040 Speaker 1: dumb sons of bitches wind up in power and they 1266 01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,760 Speaker 1: funk everything up and like destroy the Roman middle class. 1267 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. There's actually not as many 1268 01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,200 Speaker 1: clear lessons from history as you want there to be. 1269 01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,440 Speaker 1: When you look at the history up list, each one's 1270 01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,880 Speaker 1: only been done once. That's the whole point of history. Yeah, 1271 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:11,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, exactly. Anyway, that's that's the story of how 1272 01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,000 Speaker 1: Rome became a police state. So Andrew, you have any 1273 01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:18,160 Speaker 1: plugables for us at the end here? Uh, yeah, let's see, Um, 1274 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,840 Speaker 1: I guess mostly. Um. Yeah, I'm doing two shows with 1275 01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:28,440 Speaker 1: my podcast as this Racist. I'm going to be in 1276 01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:33,480 Speaker 1: a place called Austin on August and then Brooklyn on 1277 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:36,240 Speaker 1: September ten. So yeah, I would love to see folks. 1278 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:40,280 Speaker 1: If you've if you've enjoyed listening to me be horrified 1279 01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,880 Speaker 1: as Robert tells me stuff, then I will be a 1280 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,120 Speaker 1: little more proactive on stage. But I'm gonna tell you 1281 01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:52,240 Speaker 1: not that much more proactive. Excellent, Alright, go find Andrew 1282 01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:57,360 Speaker 1: in Austin, and go find Jesus in your hearts, and 1283 01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:04,600 Speaker 1: by Jesus, I mean the Jesus Christ podcast. Yeah, period 1284 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,400 Speaker 1: in your ears, that's right. Sophie hates it when I 1285 01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,000 Speaker 1: compare myself to you Gonna be you Gonna be crucified suit, 1286 01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:14,600 Speaker 1: I really hate it by the FRUMENTARII yeah, not my 1287 01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:22,760 Speaker 1: favorite thing anyways, See you next week. Bye bye. Behind 1288 01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,600 Speaker 1: the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. For 1289 01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,439 Speaker 1: more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 1290 01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,320 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 1291 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,720 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.