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Speaker 1: Hi, Hell and Gone listeners. I was hoping we'd have

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Speaker 1: a longer update for you today, But like with so

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Speaker 1: many cases, investigations that happen in real time aren't like

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Speaker 1: episodic TV where we can always end on a cliffhanger

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Speaker 1: and give the audience closure in the end. Don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong, Billy Miller's conviction is a huge step in

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Speaker 1: the right direction for getting justice for Rebecca Gold. And

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Speaker 1: if this was a fictional TV show, we would be

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Speaker 1: able to cut to the triumphant scene where the investigator

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Speaker 1: puts the cold case file in a box, stamps it

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Speaker 1: case closed, and slides it onto a shelf. I wish

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Speaker 1: that that's what we were doing, but there's still way

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Speaker 1: too many unanswered questions in this case to give me

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Speaker 1: the feeling that I can move forward. As we said

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Speaker 1: in our last episode, Rebecca's father, Dr. Larry Gould, was

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Speaker 1: supposed to meet with the prosecutor Eric Hantz on no

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Speaker 1: We were hoping that some of the questions that we've

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Speaker 1: had about Rebecca his case for so long, questions about

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Speaker 1: timelines and what interviews were initially done and what people

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Speaker 1: said back then in two thousand four versus now, would

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Speaker 1: be answered. Larry's plan was to have that meeting once

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Speaker 1: he had Rebecca's entire case file in his hands. He

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Speaker 1: had asked Eric Hants to get him that case file

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Speaker 1: in ten to thirty days after the plea agreement with

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Speaker 1: Billy Miller, which would have been by mid November, but

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Speaker 1: after Larry emailed him to ask about the file, Eric

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Speaker 1: let Larry know that the Prosecutor's office was going to

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Speaker 1: need additional time. The Prosecutor's office claimed that this happened

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Speaker 1: because the Arkansas State Police requested that they get the

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Speaker 1: case file back so they could do the redactions themselves.

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Speaker 1: The Prosecutor's office agreed to the ASPS request. Eric emailed

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Speaker 1: Larry and said that he had not been aware that

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Speaker 1: Larry needed the entire case file prior to their meeting.

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Speaker 1: He offered Larry the option to reschedule the meeting, so

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Speaker 1: Larry said that he would do that. He said he

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Speaker 1: would prefer to wait and reschedule the meeting once he'd

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Speaker 1: had time to go over all of the A, s

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Speaker 1: P S documentation of Rebecca's case. We will of course

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Speaker 1: keep you posted as to when that meeting takes place,

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Speaker 1: but honestly, I'm not even sure that meeting will happen now,

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Speaker 1: because Eric Hants is out of office on December thirty one,

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Speaker 1: and then Deputy p A. Drew Smith will begin his

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Speaker 1: term as the elected prosecutor on January one. So far,

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Speaker 1: Larry says he has not heard anything about whether Drew

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Speaker 1: would be willing to meet with him, so we'll just

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Speaker 1: have to wait and see. In the meantime, I've made

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Speaker 1: a freedom of information request for Rebecca's case file. Technically,

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Speaker 1: the entire case file should be made public after the

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Speaker 1: redactions are done by the Arkansas State Police. The a

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Speaker 1: SP told the Prosecutor's office that this process should take

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Speaker 1: around another two weeks, which, according to my math, means

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Speaker 1: that the case file would be ready around December nine, eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: right before the holidays. As we've mentioned before, there's so

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Speaker 1: many questions that we have about Billy's confession. I believe

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Speaker 1: the case file could help answer a lot of those.

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Speaker 1: The best way to confirm what happened to Rebecca is

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Speaker 1: to go back to the original interviews with everyone, the

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Speaker 1: ones that were done in two thousand four. We know

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Speaker 1: this because when we did that, with the police statements

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Speaker 1: from Casey's friends, we were able to find out there

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Speaker 1: were major discrepancies and holes in Casey's alibi. There's also

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Speaker 1: a new public information officer at the Arkansas State Police.

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Speaker 1: The current spokesperson for the sp Bill Sadler, is set

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Speaker 1: to retire at the end of the year and Latricia

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Speaker 1: Woodruff is taking over. George Jared, who reported on Rebecca's

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Speaker 1: case from the beginning, and others, have been pretty critical

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Speaker 1: of Bill Saidler at times. They say that this was

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Speaker 1: because he did not immediately inform the public of Rebecca

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Speaker 1: being missing. I read an article on Camden News about

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Speaker 1: Bill's life and career, and reading through this profile of

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Speaker 1: Bill Sadler is actually really enlightening. In that article, Bill

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Speaker 1: directly addresses that controversy. Bill told cam To News that

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, after ten years with the

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Speaker 1: sp AN incident happened that became a critical moment in

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Speaker 1: his career and his life. Police were looking for a

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Speaker 1: fugitive an eighteen year old named Adam Lee Ledford, whould

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Speaker 1: escaped from a Michigan prison. Police got a tip about

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Speaker 1: Adam's location. Troopers surrounded the suspect and when this man

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Speaker 1: reached down with his hand, one of the officers thought

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Speaker 1: he might be reaching for a weapon, and they fatally

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Speaker 1: shot and killed him. It was several hours before the

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Speaker 1: troopers realized the man who had been fatally shot was

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Speaker 1: not the escaped fugitive at all. He was a twenty

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Speaker 1: one year old named Joseph Aaron Hamley. He had cerebral

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Speaker 1: palsy and was unarmed. This was a usually controversial incident

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Speaker 1: in the Arkansas State Police, and they took a lot

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Speaker 1: of criticism. Bill said that this fatal shooting really crystallized

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Speaker 1: in his mind the importance of getting things right before

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Speaker 1: releasing information to the public. And as for what he

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Speaker 1: plans to do next. Interestingly, Bill said during his retirement

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Speaker 1: he plans to take a look at unsolved murders in

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Speaker 1: Little Rock during the nineteen seventies. He says he's not

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Speaker 1: sure what form his investigations will take yet. I actually

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Speaker 1: have met Latricia Woodruff. I met her when I was

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Speaker 1: called into that weird meeting back in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: eighteen with Mark Hollingsworth and Little Rock at the Arkansas

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Speaker 1: State Police headquarters at the time. When she asked me

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Speaker 1: why I wanted to follow a complaint against Dennis Simons,

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Speaker 1: I told her point blank, I thought Dennis was hurting

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Speaker 1: the investigation into Rebecca Gould's murder. I also told her

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Speaker 1: I believed he was actively ignoring evidence. I have no

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Speaker 1: idea what went on behind closed doors after I left

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Speaker 1: that building, But after the podcast aired, pretty soon Dennis

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Speaker 1: Simons was no longer the lead investigator on Rebecca's case.

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Speaker 1: I still haven't heard from Billy Miller since I sent

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Speaker 1: my letter, but I have heard that his wife has

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Speaker 1: been contacting people from the Philippines. Apparently the story she

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Speaker 1: is telling them about what Billy told her really happened

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Speaker 1: in that trailer when Rebecca was murdered does not match

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Speaker 1: Billy's story to the police. This is the reality of investigations.

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Speaker 1: As we've said so many times before, it becomes a

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Speaker 1: waiting game. I do have one more update, and it

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Speaker 1: concerns Bill Sadler, a producer from forty eight Hours who

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Speaker 1: I've been talking to for a long time about Rebecca's case,

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Speaker 1: let me know that she wanted to cover the story.

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Speaker 1: But she said when she contacted Bill Sadler, the first

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Speaker 1: thing that he asked her was are you talking to

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Speaker 1: Katherine Townsend. He then went on to tell her that

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Speaker 1: she was talking to me or to Jennifer Buckles or

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Speaker 1: George Jared, those three specific names, that the ASP would

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Speaker 1: not participate in any story about Rebecca's case. The producer

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Speaker 1: told me that for her this was a huge red

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Speaker 1: flag as a journalist, which it should be, and I

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Speaker 1: challenged the Arkansas State Police to change course with this policy,

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Speaker 1: because if Bill Sadler means what he says in that

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Speaker 1: article about his retirement, and he's all about honesty, then

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Speaker 1: the Arkansas State Police should not be afraid to face

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Speaker 1: some tough questions. The producer also let me know she

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Speaker 1: had spoken to Mike McNeil, the new lead investigator on

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Speaker 1: Rebecca's case. She said he indicated that he was willing

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Speaker 1: to participate as long as she asked me what he

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Speaker 1: called the hard questions. I'm really hoping that the new

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Speaker 1: public Information officer has a similar attitude to Mike McNeill,

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Speaker 1: because I am absolutely ready to answer any question that

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Speaker 1: the Arkansas State Police has for me. I want and

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Speaker 1: would expect to be asked hard questions. As I said before,

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Speaker 1: my only motivation is getting to the truth about what

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Speaker 1: really happened to Rebecca Gold. I'll see what happens there,

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Speaker 1: and I will of course keep you posted. I did

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Speaker 1: hear back about my freedom of information request. They got

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Speaker 1: back to me and let me know they're gonna go

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Speaker 1: ahead and process my request. So I am eagerly waiting

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Speaker 1: for that case file to come back. I would consider

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Speaker 1: that the best Christmas and Holiday present ever, and as

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Speaker 1: soon as I have a chance to dive into it,

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Speaker 1: I will report back to you all. Like I said

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Speaker 1: in the first season, We're not stopping until we do

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Speaker 1: our best to answer every question we can, to make

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Speaker 1: the gray area clear, and to find out what really

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Speaker 1: happened to Rebecca Gold. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone.

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Speaker 1: Helen Gone is a production of School of Humans and

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Speaker 1: I Heart Media. Our producer is Gabby Watts. Executive producers

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Speaker 1: of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr and L. C. Crowe. Music

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Speaker 1: is by Ben Sully. Special thanks to season one producers

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Speaker 1: Taylor Church and James Morrison. School of Humans