WEBVTT - Getting My Silence Back 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:33.556 Pushkin. I had just turned twenty, like a month earlier, 0:00:34.156 --> 0:00:38.396 and I woke up one morning to this sound that 0:00:38.516 --> 0:00:41.356 was it sounded like a fire alarm, Like if you 0:00:41.436 --> 0:00:43.116 if you woke up to a fire alarm, you would 0:00:43.156 --> 0:00:46.956 be in a state of emergency. And that's that's what 0:00:46.996 --> 0:00:49.796 it felt like. And then it took me a few 0:00:49.796 --> 0:00:54.276 seconds to realize that the sound actually wasn't coming from 0:00:54.316 --> 0:00:56.716 anywhere it was it was coming from inside my own head. 0:00:58.356 --> 0:01:01.236 That was seven years ago, and every day since then, 0:01:01.596 --> 0:01:05.316 Ramsey Cobaz has continued to hear that same persistent sound 0:01:05.356 --> 0:01:08.796 in his head. If you're inside and you live on 0:01:08.796 --> 0:01:12.276 a busy street and there's a truck backing up, the 0:01:12.636 --> 0:01:15.356 beeping sound that it makes to kind of let pedestrians 0:01:15.396 --> 0:01:19.276 know it's it's sort of that volume, but it's not 0:01:19.356 --> 0:01:24.516 like a punctuated beeping. It's it's a persistent It was 0:01:24.796 --> 0:01:33.316 literally the only sound just completely dominating my headspace. This 0:01:33.596 --> 0:01:36.796 change Ramsey experienced, it was something doctors were able to 0:01:36.916 --> 0:01:39.996 name and describe. They said it was tenitis with sudden 0:01:40.076 --> 0:01:43.156 hearing loss in his left ear, but they couldn't explain 0:01:43.276 --> 0:01:46.476 why it happened to Ramsey, So he went searching for 0:01:46.556 --> 0:01:50.036 his own answer. I'm Maya Shunker and this is a 0:01:50.076 --> 0:01:52.756 slight change of plans, a show that dives deep into 0:01:52.756 --> 0:01:54.996 the world of change and hopefully gets us to think 0:01:55.036 --> 0:02:22.916 differently about change in our own lives. Ramsey Kabaz remembers 0:02:22.916 --> 0:02:26.316 the exact moment this happened. He was a sophomore in college. 0:02:26.356 --> 0:02:30.196 It was Thursday, October sixteenth, twenty fourteen, a little after 0:02:30.316 --> 0:02:32.876 nine am, when he woke up to a high pitched 0:02:32.956 --> 0:02:36.036 ringing in his left ear. I remember running to the 0:02:36.036 --> 0:02:40.036 bathroom and like literally looking inside of my ear and 0:02:40.156 --> 0:02:42.596 feeling inside of my ear and trying to figure out 0:02:42.596 --> 0:02:44.076 like what had happened, Like did I fall asleep with 0:02:44.156 --> 0:02:47.516 my headphone's in? Is there something inside of my ear? 0:02:47.516 --> 0:02:50.596 And obviously there wasn't, and I was really freaked out. 0:02:51.156 --> 0:02:53.796 I called my mom and I was like, hey, I 0:02:53.836 --> 0:02:56.116 think something's really wrong because I woke up with this 0:02:56.236 --> 0:02:58.996 ringing in my ear and now I'm feeling really off balance, 0:02:59.796 --> 0:03:02.636 and I'm talking to my mom on the phone and she's, 0:03:02.716 --> 0:03:05.116 you know, asking me if I want to, you know, 0:03:05.356 --> 0:03:07.836 for her to come pick me up and take me 0:03:07.876 --> 0:03:11.716 to you know, the doc or something. And I switched 0:03:11.716 --> 0:03:13.596 hands at some point, you know, I was I was 0:03:13.596 --> 0:03:15.596 holding the phone with my right hand and I switched 0:03:15.596 --> 0:03:19.916 over to my left hand and the call dropped, and 0:03:19.996 --> 0:03:23.356 I was really confused and I was like hello, like 0:03:23.436 --> 0:03:26.356 you there, and there was no sound, and so then 0:03:26.396 --> 0:03:28.796 I eventually I switched hands again and she was back 0:03:28.836 --> 0:03:31.636 and the call was back, and I remember putting it 0:03:31.676 --> 0:03:34.716 together that oh my god, I can't hear anything out 0:03:34.716 --> 0:03:36.796 of my left ear. I think this is it's not 0:03:36.836 --> 0:03:40.396 the call dropping, it's it's my ear isn't working. So 0:03:40.476 --> 0:03:44.636 I asked my mom to say the alphabet. She's confused, 0:03:44.636 --> 0:03:48.076 but she's like, okay, um ABCD, And I switched over 0:03:48.156 --> 0:03:50.476 to my left ear and there's nothing. And then I 0:03:50.516 --> 0:03:53.396 switched back over to my right ear and L M 0:03:53.556 --> 0:03:56.156 N O P and I you know, at that point, 0:03:56.236 --> 0:03:58.676 I was like, I really think that I need to go, 0:03:59.396 --> 0:04:02.956 you know, go to the doctor because something's something's not 0:04:03.036 --> 0:04:07.676 right here. And did this doctor know immediately what was 0:04:07.716 --> 0:04:10.876 going on? So this is kind of where where I 0:04:10.916 --> 0:04:14.956 started to get a little frustrated, because you know, he 0:04:14.996 --> 0:04:18.516 was telling me, yeah, you have you have sudden sudden 0:04:18.556 --> 0:04:21.436 hearing loss. I was not in a good mood, as 0:04:21.476 --> 0:04:23.956 you can imagine. I remember saying to him, yeah, I know, 0:04:24.356 --> 0:04:27.716 I know that, Like it's it's pretty clear to me 0:04:27.756 --> 0:04:30.796 that I have suddenly lost my hearing. Could you tell me? Why? 0:04:30.996 --> 0:04:33.476 Could you tell me what happened? The best they can 0:04:33.516 --> 0:04:37.356 do is just call the condition what the symptom is. 0:04:37.916 --> 0:04:40.076 And I remember he listed off to me a bunch 0:04:40.116 --> 0:04:44.196 of possible reasons, and it ranged from from, you know, 0:04:44.916 --> 0:04:47.116 I had a concussion the previous year, so that was 0:04:47.756 --> 0:04:50.356 it could have been a residual side effect of my concussion. 0:04:50.756 --> 0:04:52.956 It could have been something related to my jaw. It 0:04:52.996 --> 0:04:56.916 could have been an autoimmune reaction to some you know, 0:04:56.996 --> 0:04:59.996 some virus. And then the one that he that he 0:05:00.076 --> 0:05:02.676 told me at the end that really freaked me out was, 0:05:03.116 --> 0:05:05.636 you know, because you're so young for something like this 0:05:05.676 --> 0:05:08.796 to happen, it's possible that you have like a brain tumor. 0:05:09.396 --> 0:05:14.356 And I remember hearing that and thinking, oh my god, 0:05:14.436 --> 0:05:19.916 like you know, this is this is really fucking scary. 0:05:20.436 --> 0:05:23.276 Do you mind just describing what it was like lying 0:05:23.676 --> 0:05:27.636 in your bed that night? I think, just fear. You know, 0:05:28.876 --> 0:05:30.996 It's it's like if somebody, when somebody tells you not 0:05:31.076 --> 0:05:35.196 to think about elephants, you know, and then all you 0:05:35.236 --> 0:05:40.316 can think about is elephants having the persistent tone, that 0:05:40.516 --> 0:05:43.876 ringing just so loud, and no other sound in that 0:05:44.276 --> 0:05:49.196 in that ear just like filling my head with fear. 0:05:49.396 --> 0:05:52.276 And the fear was was just like literal it was 0:05:52.316 --> 0:05:55.796 literalized by by this sound that was not going away. 0:05:55.836 --> 0:05:59.196 And I was more or less told by the doctors 0:05:59.676 --> 0:06:01.836 that it may never go away, that that sound may 0:06:01.916 --> 0:06:05.596 just stay with me forever. If you try to go 0:06:05.676 --> 0:06:08.876 to sleep with that sound playing in your room, that's 0:06:08.916 --> 0:06:10.716 how difficult it was for me to go to sleep 0:06:10.716 --> 0:06:14.556 that first night. So you wake up the next morning 0:06:15.396 --> 0:06:18.836 and that ringing is still in your head. Did it 0:06:18.876 --> 0:06:21.916 take your conscious brain just a moment or two to 0:06:21.956 --> 0:06:26.276 register this new reality. Yeah. I remember waking up and 0:06:27.236 --> 0:06:32.196 realizing or thinking and worrying that the only the only 0:06:32.196 --> 0:06:34.716 silence I would ever get for the rest of my 0:06:34.756 --> 0:06:39.076 life would be when I was asleep, Like there was 0:06:39.116 --> 0:06:41.356 no there was no such thing as silence anymore. And 0:06:41.956 --> 0:06:45.716 I what I remember about waking up before this happened 0:06:45.716 --> 0:06:47.516 to me, was you know that feeling of like you 0:06:47.556 --> 0:06:50.996 wake up and it's just quiet. It was like waking 0:06:51.076 --> 0:06:57.636 up to an alarm. Wow, you had a brain scan 0:06:58.036 --> 0:07:00.596 to figure out whether or not you had this tumor 0:07:00.676 --> 0:07:06.076 in your brain. I went in for the MRI, and 0:07:06.476 --> 0:07:11.276 if anyone's ever gotten an MRI m on you know 0:07:11.356 --> 0:07:14.876 on their head before you go into this little like 0:07:14.996 --> 0:07:17.436 it feels like a coffin almost, or like a tanning bed, 0:07:18.556 --> 0:07:20.916 and you like slide in and there's a there's a 0:07:20.956 --> 0:07:24.796 loud sort of whirring sound. But they gave me headphones 0:07:24.836 --> 0:07:26.676 and they were like, hey, like, what kind of music 0:07:26.716 --> 0:07:28.996 do you like? We can play whatever you whatever you 0:07:28.996 --> 0:07:32.076 want on these headphones. And I was like, all right, well, 0:07:32.116 --> 0:07:35.356 I like Bob Dylan, Can you play some Bob Dylan. 0:07:35.756 --> 0:07:38.836 I think they had Pandora at that point at the hospital, 0:07:39.476 --> 0:07:41.916 so they gave me. They put the headphones in and 0:07:41.956 --> 0:07:43.956 I think the first song was like, I don't know, 0:07:44.076 --> 0:07:47.156 maybe like a rolling stone or something. And then the 0:07:47.196 --> 0:07:51.236 Pandora formula gave me Simon and Garfuncles the sound of silence. 0:07:52.876 --> 0:07:57.316 So I'm in this MRI machine, you know, like weeping 0:07:59.276 --> 0:08:02.716 with the sound of silence playing and this loud whirring 0:08:02.716 --> 0:08:05.276 of the machine and the and the loud ringing in 0:08:05.316 --> 0:08:08.916 my ear, and in retrospect it's like dark comedy you know, 0:08:09.236 --> 0:08:11.756 just not knowing like what kind of information I was 0:08:11.756 --> 0:08:15.716 going to get back from from this test um. And luckily, 0:08:15.996 --> 0:08:18.276 you know, thank god, I did not have I did 0:08:18.276 --> 0:08:21.396 not have a brain tumor. I think that I was 0:08:21.436 --> 0:08:23.676 not really reassured by the fact that I didn't have 0:08:23.956 --> 0:08:26.076 a brain tumor. I was. I was grateful, of course, 0:08:26.116 --> 0:08:28.996 but it didn't bring me the kind of peace that 0:08:29.076 --> 0:08:32.196 I that I think it maybe should have or or 0:08:32.316 --> 0:08:35.396 or could have. You know, one thing that's so interesting 0:08:35.396 --> 0:08:40.796 about tonitis, so maddening about tonitis is that, unlike many 0:08:40.876 --> 0:08:45.156 other challenges or afflictions we face in life, you can't 0:08:45.196 --> 0:08:47.596 get a respite from it, right, You can't just take 0:08:47.716 --> 0:08:51.076 a minute away. It was really hard. I mean, I 0:08:51.116 --> 0:08:54.196 think I have the language now to describe it as 0:08:54.556 --> 0:08:57.636 um as like a mental health crisis, you know. I 0:08:57.676 --> 0:09:01.396 think I was really going through some some depression at 0:09:01.436 --> 0:09:04.756 that time, and and a lot of anxiety because, like 0:09:04.796 --> 0:09:08.076 you said, there's no there's no rest, you know, there's 0:09:08.116 --> 0:09:12.236 no there's no relaxing. And it made me realize that 0:09:12.276 --> 0:09:18.436 like having some quiet is really important. Having a chance 0:09:18.516 --> 0:09:21.516 to like leave class and just kind of sit on 0:09:21.516 --> 0:09:25.916 a bench and like not think about anything is really important, 0:09:25.956 --> 0:09:29.876 and I didn't know how to how to pause anymore, 0:09:30.436 --> 0:09:33.516 and so I think that that led to a lot 0:09:33.556 --> 0:09:36.476 of anxiety. And then there was sort of this deeper 0:09:36.556 --> 0:09:40.036 psychological thing that happened, which which is this fear of 0:09:40.076 --> 0:09:43.396 my body just failing and things just just failing for 0:09:43.476 --> 0:09:46.956 no reason. The depression part of it, or the you know, 0:09:46.996 --> 0:09:49.996 the hopelessness part of it was more of like an 0:09:49.996 --> 0:09:53.316 analytical thing happening in my brain where I was I 0:09:53.356 --> 0:09:56.956 sort of did some transitive property calculation where I was like, well, 0:09:56.996 --> 0:09:58.676 like if this, if I woke up one day and 0:09:58.716 --> 0:10:01.716 this happened, then like what could happen tomorrow? You know? 0:10:02.236 --> 0:10:04.596 And that led to a lot of a lot of 0:10:04.636 --> 0:10:11.076 fear and a lot of you know, some depression. Which 0:10:11.156 --> 0:10:14.836 thing was troubling you more? Was it the physiological sensation 0:10:14.876 --> 0:10:18.156 of having this constant bringing in your ear or was 0:10:18.196 --> 0:10:23.716 it this new realization about your own fragility and vulnerability 0:10:23.716 --> 0:10:26.676 and the fact that your body could just fail you 0:10:26.716 --> 0:10:31.196 at any moment in time. Well, to me, they were related, 0:10:31.436 --> 0:10:39.236 because the physiological experience of being distracted and being you know, 0:10:39.316 --> 0:10:44.076 not having rest was it was it was acting as 0:10:44.116 --> 0:10:50.716 a reminder of the existential stuff, the existential questioning, and 0:10:51.556 --> 0:10:55.996 you know, those big sort of difficult, morbid questions, like 0:10:56.236 --> 0:10:59.796 we're just as persistent as the sound, if that makes sense, 0:11:00.316 --> 0:11:04.916 Because to me, like not having the brain tumor, you know, 0:11:05.156 --> 0:11:07.676 I think I was trying to tell myself that, like, Okay, 0:11:07.676 --> 0:11:11.596 well the worst didn't happen here, you know, like things 0:11:11.636 --> 0:11:14.356 aren't that different. You know, it could have been. It 0:11:14.396 --> 0:11:17.716 could have been so much more different if chance had 0:11:17.716 --> 0:11:21.476 sort of broken in a different way. And so I 0:11:21.516 --> 0:11:24.836 think I was not being honest with myself about the 0:11:24.876 --> 0:11:27.156 fact that, like the condition that I was experiencing was 0:11:27.316 --> 0:11:34.476 really dramatic. We'll be right back with a slight change 0:11:34.476 --> 0:11:49.516 of plants. Ramsay Cobaz could not find a medical explanation 0:11:49.636 --> 0:11:52.276 for his tenitis, even after speaking with over a half 0:11:52.316 --> 0:11:55.156 dozen doctors about it. He tried to find ways to 0:11:55.156 --> 0:11:58.076 cope with it, that nothing was working, and he continued 0:11:58.116 --> 0:12:01.476 to feel despondent. One night, about a month after this 0:12:01.556 --> 0:12:04.116 all began, he was out with his girlfriend and they 0:12:04.156 --> 0:12:06.916 noticed that an old movie called Hannah and Her Sisters 0:12:07.036 --> 0:12:09.876 was playing that night at the local theater. Neither of 0:12:09.916 --> 0:12:12.876 them had seen it, so they bought two tickets and 0:12:12.996 --> 0:12:16.076 as a warning, this next section contains a brief mention 0:12:16.156 --> 0:12:19.996 of suicide. And it's a movie where basically there's there's 0:12:20.036 --> 0:12:25.836 one subplot where a character who's like a hypochondriac wakes 0:12:25.916 --> 0:12:28.676 up with like a ringing or buzzing in his ear 0:12:29.396 --> 0:12:33.716 and he kind of freaks out, goes to the doctor, 0:12:33.716 --> 0:12:35.396 and the doctor tells him that he might have a 0:12:35.396 --> 0:12:39.676 brain tumor, and then he is sent down this like 0:12:39.756 --> 0:12:43.596 existential spiral. And I'm sitting there watching this movie, like, 0:12:43.796 --> 0:12:47.756 you know, like nudging my girlfriend like can you believe this? 0:12:47.796 --> 0:12:51.196 Like this is pretty fucking weird that like this is 0:12:51.476 --> 0:12:54.156 happening sort of on the margins of this movie, Like 0:12:54.196 --> 0:12:56.636 this story is exactly what I've been going through this 0:12:56.756 --> 0:13:00.716 past few weeks. And then he's basically suicidal in his 0:13:00.756 --> 0:13:04.996 apartment and he has a gun and he's like the 0:13:05.076 --> 0:13:08.156 gun misfires and he kind of freaks out, and so 0:13:08.196 --> 0:13:10.676 he leaves his apartment and is walking around New York 0:13:10.716 --> 0:13:14.516 City and he wanders into a movie theater and he 0:13:14.596 --> 0:13:17.636 sits down and it's like an old gradual Marx movie 0:13:18.236 --> 0:13:22.276 that is really funny and makes him laugh. He says 0:13:23.116 --> 0:13:27.876 that basically the fact of walking into this movie theater 0:13:28.036 --> 0:13:33.756 and feeling comforted by movies was sort of restorative of 0:13:33.836 --> 0:13:38.156 his spiritual crisis. And so I'm sitting there in the theater, 0:13:39.316 --> 0:13:42.716 like looking at this character looking up at a screen, 0:13:43.436 --> 0:13:49.636 basically recounting exactly what I was experiencing. You know, I 0:13:49.716 --> 0:13:52.076 loved movies. I was studying movies at that time, like 0:13:52.196 --> 0:13:55.876 I wanted to be a director and a writer. It 0:13:55.916 --> 0:13:59.396 felt meaningful, and I think that that's that's one thing 0:13:59.396 --> 0:14:02.196 that I really clinged onto. So I was feeling hope 0:14:02.276 --> 0:14:07.196 because the movie reflected my experience in a way that 0:14:07.316 --> 0:14:11.516 felt so unlikely that it must mean something. You know, 0:14:12.876 --> 0:14:17.716 it is such a common feature of human psychology to 0:14:18.996 --> 0:14:22.836 want to create narratives and stories for ourselves to try 0:14:22.836 --> 0:14:26.596 to make sense of our lives. And this tendency, this 0:14:26.716 --> 0:14:30.756 aspect of human nature we're always trying to build stories 0:14:31.356 --> 0:14:35.276 is one of the reasons why we are so resilient. Yeah. 0:14:35.356 --> 0:14:38.436 I mean, well, there's that famous jendating quote we tell 0:14:38.436 --> 0:14:41.396 ourselves stories in order to live. I think it's true. 0:14:41.436 --> 0:14:45.076 It's like we all have this narrative about ourselves. I 0:14:45.116 --> 0:14:49.836 think when something unexpected happens for a reason that doesn't 0:14:49.836 --> 0:14:52.436 track with what you've been telling yourself about yourself. You 0:14:52.476 --> 0:14:56.956 need to fit it into your story somehow. I'm wondering 0:14:56.996 --> 0:15:03.556 what impact the tenitis had on your relationships. The way 0:15:03.556 --> 0:15:07.396 that I was coping with it socially was to kind 0:15:07.396 --> 0:15:11.676 of just withdraw, I think for the practical reasons of 0:15:11.916 --> 0:15:16.036 of not really being willing or able to go to 0:15:16.116 --> 0:15:19.476 like loud spaces like parties and concerts, but then also 0:15:19.516 --> 0:15:23.276 for the psychological reasons of just feeling not super fun, 0:15:23.676 --> 0:15:26.036 not super fun to be around, Like I wasn't I 0:15:26.076 --> 0:15:28.476 wasn't making jokes, I wasn't a great hang at that time, 0:15:28.596 --> 0:15:31.196 you know what I mean. I remember I was living 0:15:31.196 --> 0:15:34.836 in a house off campus, and I was I was 0:15:34.876 --> 0:15:38.476 sitting on the porch of the house, which was like 0:15:38.516 --> 0:15:42.236 a little bit elevated above the sidewalk, and um, and 0:15:42.276 --> 0:15:45.316 I was it was dark, and I could hear some 0:15:45.356 --> 0:15:48.436 people kind of walking on the sidewalk below, and I 0:15:48.476 --> 0:15:50.436 heard I heard someone say my name. I heard someone 0:15:50.476 --> 0:15:52.796 say like, oh, like, doesn't Ramsey live in this house? 0:15:53.556 --> 0:15:57.036 And then I heard a second voice say yeah, fuck 0:15:57.116 --> 0:16:02.916 that guy. And I was just like I was like, 0:16:02.916 --> 0:16:06.196 oh shit, Like like do what should I say? Like 0:16:06.196 --> 0:16:08.716 should I make myself known, like what do I do here? 0:16:09.636 --> 0:16:11.916 And I realized I kind of like took a peek, 0:16:11.956 --> 0:16:15.596 and I realized that the person who said that was 0:16:15.596 --> 0:16:19.316 was one of my closest friends from freshman year. And 0:16:19.396 --> 0:16:23.436 I can hear I can hear the guy saying like, yeah, 0:16:23.516 --> 0:16:25.916 like I don't know what happened to that guy, Like 0:16:25.996 --> 0:16:28.036 he he never wants to hang out, like I haven't 0:16:28.036 --> 0:16:30.876 seen him in so long, Like he's he was clearly 0:16:30.956 --> 0:16:33.956 hurt that, like I had kind of fallen off the map, 0:16:35.116 --> 0:16:41.356 and man like that was a really important signal to 0:16:41.436 --> 0:16:47.196 me that like my inability to communicate about this experience 0:16:48.076 --> 0:16:54.156 honestly with people and my tendency to just withdraw instead 0:16:54.156 --> 0:16:58.036 of offering some kind of an explanation was actually like, 0:16:59.036 --> 0:17:01.276 you know, people were experiencing that in a way that 0:17:01.436 --> 0:17:05.196 was absolutely not what I intended I had. I had 0:17:05.236 --> 0:17:08.956 sort of let some some people down. I think like 0:17:09.316 --> 0:17:13.796 a big turning point for you. The realization that you know, 0:17:14.036 --> 0:17:16.596 I'm I don't know how to communicate about this to others, 0:17:16.716 --> 0:17:18.876 and I think, as you mentioned, I don't know even 0:17:18.956 --> 0:17:22.636 how to communicate this to myself. Was that a strong 0:17:22.676 --> 0:17:27.116 source of motivation for you to really aggressively confront this 0:17:27.196 --> 0:17:31.916 problem and tackle it on an emotional level. Yes, it 0:17:32.036 --> 0:17:35.756 was a bit of a turning point where I just 0:17:35.796 --> 0:17:40.196 became more aware that, like, I can't just deal with 0:17:40.236 --> 0:17:44.956 this as something that like was a dodged bullet just 0:17:45.036 --> 0:17:48.436 because I didn't have a brain tumor. Like, this was 0:17:48.436 --> 0:17:52.836 still a big deal and very formative and very consequential 0:17:53.036 --> 0:17:56.156 to my development. And I need to just like say 0:17:56.156 --> 0:17:58.316 that to people when I when they get to know me, 0:17:58.316 --> 0:18:02.996 because it's an important factor in my story. I'm curious Ramsey, 0:18:03.036 --> 0:18:08.436 whether finally acknowledging what a big deal this was in 0:18:08.516 --> 0:18:13.156 some way helped you better manage the physiological experience of 0:18:13.196 --> 0:18:17.756 the tonitis. I think there was two distinct recoveries. There 0:18:17.836 --> 0:18:22.676 was my psychological sort of reasoning of the experience and 0:18:22.836 --> 0:18:25.556 becoming more honest with myself and others about it. And 0:18:25.596 --> 0:18:30.236 then there was simultaneously a physiological thing that happened that 0:18:30.316 --> 0:18:32.836 I don't know how to explain, where my brain just 0:18:32.876 --> 0:18:37.156 stopped perceiving it the way that it did initially. I'm 0:18:37.196 --> 0:18:40.916 really interested in how my brain was able to over 0:18:40.956 --> 0:18:45.356 time learn how to not be alarmed by it anymore. 0:18:46.636 --> 0:18:50.516 I know, in the case of anxiety research that if 0:18:50.556 --> 0:18:53.396 you find ways to feel less threatened by an anxious thought, 0:18:53.676 --> 0:18:56.236 it really does lose power over you and can become 0:18:56.316 --> 0:19:00.676 something you notice less. Does this mirror your experience with tonitis? 0:19:02.596 --> 0:19:07.356 When I think about the sound, I used to think 0:19:07.356 --> 0:19:12.156 about it as like as as like some kind of 0:19:12.196 --> 0:19:15.636 like a like a conscious enemy, if that makes sense, 0:19:15.836 --> 0:19:19.436 like something that was that I was fighting, you know. 0:19:20.476 --> 0:19:23.036 And now when I hear it, like right now, I 0:19:23.036 --> 0:19:25.276 can just kind of like stop for a second and 0:19:25.276 --> 0:19:28.116 be like, yet, there it is so there. I don't 0:19:28.156 --> 0:19:30.756 think of it as an enemy. I literally just think 0:19:30.756 --> 0:19:34.956 of it like, you know, it's my hand, or like 0:19:34.996 --> 0:19:37.876 it's my finger, you know, like it's just a part 0:19:37.916 --> 0:19:44.156 of my physical self. It's just there. You know. Sometimes 0:19:44.236 --> 0:19:47.316 I'm a little like like I wish this could just 0:19:47.356 --> 0:19:49.836 go away. But other times I'm just like, yeah, it's 0:19:49.876 --> 0:19:52.636 there and doesn't bother me. It's not I'm not fighting it, 0:19:52.756 --> 0:19:56.316 you know. And I think I remember the first day 0:19:56.836 --> 0:20:01.036 that I realized that I hadn't thought about it the 0:20:01.156 --> 0:20:05.796 previous day where I woke up, I was like eating 0:20:05.796 --> 0:20:09.276 breakfast or something, and then I like remembered it. It 0:20:09.316 --> 0:20:11.116 was there like it always is, and I heard it, 0:20:11.796 --> 0:20:14.316 and I remember thinking to myself, like, holy shit, I 0:20:14.396 --> 0:20:17.436 don't think. I don't think I thought about this yesterday. 0:20:17.676 --> 0:20:21.036 Like I don't think I perceived this sound all day yesterday. 0:20:21.076 --> 0:20:24.476 I don't remember pausing and getting frustrated. I don't remember 0:20:25.436 --> 0:20:28.076 thinking about it, hearing it like turning on a fan 0:20:28.156 --> 0:20:30.036 to mask it. I think I just went the whole 0:20:30.116 --> 0:20:33.396 day yesterday the way that I would have if I 0:20:33.436 --> 0:20:36.556 didn't have this ring in my ear, And that was 0:20:37.236 --> 0:20:42.276 inexplicable to me and like so comforting to know that, 0:20:42.316 --> 0:20:45.676 like it didn't need to go away in order for 0:20:45.796 --> 0:20:51.236 me to not perceive it. When you put different labels 0:20:51.276 --> 0:20:53.756 on an anxious thought, right as not being the enemy, 0:20:53.876 --> 0:20:56.956 like you know, it's equivalent of visualizing wanting to like 0:20:57.076 --> 0:21:01.876 smash the anxious thought with a baseball bat, versus imagining 0:21:01.916 --> 0:21:03.996 that's the thing in the sky just floating by you 0:21:04.116 --> 0:21:07.076 and you notice it and you acknowledge it and you 0:21:07.156 --> 0:21:10.116 let it pass, and it's the same thought in the 0:21:10.156 --> 0:21:13.116 same way. That's the same sound for you, right, but 0:21:13.196 --> 0:21:15.996 it just doesn't have the same power over your anxious 0:21:16.036 --> 0:21:19.956 brain as it did before. Yeah, yeah, actually I've never 0:21:19.956 --> 0:21:22.996 thought this before, but I've never put this together. But 0:21:23.636 --> 0:21:26.476 I think of it as quiet now, I guess if 0:21:26.516 --> 0:21:29.196 that makes sense, like it is it is my version 0:21:29.236 --> 0:21:32.676 of quiet when I can't hear anything else but it. 0:21:33.596 --> 0:21:37.996 That's just sort of my like my meditation space. That's 0:21:37.996 --> 0:21:41.836 what it feels like to me. If I had asked 0:21:41.876 --> 0:21:44.796 twenty year old Ramsey, how's this whole tonightist thing going 0:21:44.876 --> 0:21:48.076 to play out for you? What's required in order for 0:21:48.196 --> 0:21:50.236 you to be okay with this? What do you think 0:21:50.236 --> 0:21:53.476 he would have said? I think I would have had 0:21:53.516 --> 0:21:59.876 like a determination about me to resolve it medically, because 0:21:59.916 --> 0:22:05.116 I remember at that time I went to no joke. 0:22:05.276 --> 0:22:08.236 I think I went to like eight or nine doctors, 0:22:09.236 --> 0:22:13.476 and the fact that I didn't get an explanation that 0:22:13.516 --> 0:22:19.276 was satisfying to me was so frustrating for so long that, like, 0:22:20.996 --> 0:22:24.476 I think I just wanted to continue to track that down. 0:22:26.316 --> 0:22:28.796 I think I would have probably told you, like, I'm 0:22:28.796 --> 0:22:30.756 going to figure out what happened, and I'm gonna I'm 0:22:30.756 --> 0:22:33.756 gonna solve it. I'm gonna get my I'm gonna get 0:22:33.756 --> 0:22:38.036 my silence. Because even if it doesn't mean that you're 0:22:38.076 --> 0:22:42.676 going to get what you want, sometimes an answer feels 0:22:43.156 --> 0:22:45.196 like it's like fool's gold, but like it feels like 0:22:45.236 --> 0:22:47.596 it might make a difference even even when it won't. 0:22:48.076 --> 0:22:53.916 But obviously I would have been wrong. Like I can't 0:22:53.916 --> 0:22:56.236 even be bothered to read like a research paper that 0:22:56.316 --> 0:22:59.596 my like med school friend sends me. Now about this, 0:22:59.716 --> 0:23:02.916 Like I it's it's not only that I'm not actively 0:23:02.916 --> 0:23:06.516 pursuing an answer or or a resolution, it's that I'm 0:23:06.556 --> 0:23:31.236 like indifferent to it. Hey, thanks for listening. Join me 0:23:31.316 --> 0:23:34.036 next week when I chat with Grammy winning singer songwriter 0:23:34.156 --> 0:23:37.716 Kasey Musgraves. We talk about her upcoming album and the 0:23:37.796 --> 0:23:40.876 impact A psychedelic Trip has had on her creative process. 0:23:42.076 --> 0:23:45.876 Literally the day after my experience, I mean, it was 0:23:45.916 --> 0:23:51.356 like the neurons were just firing off, like insane imagery perspective. 0:23:51.956 --> 0:23:56.996 I mean there was a massive explosion of creativity ideas. 0:23:57.036 --> 0:23:59.916 The whole concept for my new album that I've been writing, 0:24:09.756 --> 0:24:12.796 A slight change of Plans is created an executive produced 0:24:12.876 --> 0:24:16.876 by me Maya Shunker. Big thanks to everyone at Pushkin Industries, 0:24:17.276 --> 0:24:21.516 including our producer Mola Board, associate producers David Jaw and 0:24:21.596 --> 0:24:26.436 Julia Goodman, executive producers Mia Lavelle and Justine Lange, senior 0:24:26.596 --> 0:24:30.356 editor Jen Guera, and sound design and mixed engineers Ben 0:24:30.396 --> 0:24:34.676 Holliday and Jason Gambrel. Thanks also to Louise Gara who 0:24:34.756 --> 0:24:37.316 wrote our theme song, and Ginger Smith who helped arrange 0:24:37.316 --> 0:24:41.916 the vocals, incidental music from Epidemic Sound, and of course 0:24:42.116 --> 0:24:45.596 a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow 0:24:45.636 --> 0:24:48.916 a slight change of plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Shunker. 0:24:57.916 --> 0:24:59.756 Do you visualize it at all? Though? Like, does it 0:24:59.876 --> 0:25:02.236 have a shape or a form? So he's been curious 0:25:02.276 --> 0:25:03.876 about up. This is going to be kind of weird. 0:25:03.916 --> 0:25:07.076 I've never answered this question before. It feels like a 0:25:07.116 --> 0:25:10.596 shooting star, kind of like there's some kind of like 0:25:10.636 --> 0:25:16.836 a like a fluttery, sparkly shimmer around the very direct, fast, 0:25:16.996 --> 0:25:21.116 straight line, if that makes sense. That's a cool question. 0:25:21.116 --> 0:25:23.596 I've literally never I've never said that or thought that 0:25:23.956 --> 0:25:26.956 out loud, but like that's pretty much what it feels like. Wow, 0:25:27.236 --> 0:25:33.396 shooting star. Yeah, just like straight, bright, thin and like 0:25:33.476 --> 0:25:37.516 you notice it. It's just a shooting star in my ear. 0:25:38.556 --> 0:25:40.316 Everyone wants a shooting star in their ear.