1 00:00:14,916 --> 00:00:33,556 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I had just turned twenty, like a month earlier, 2 00:00:34,156 --> 00:00:38,396 Speaker 1: and I woke up one morning to this sound that 3 00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:41,356 Speaker 1: was it sounded like a fire alarm, Like if you 4 00:00:41,436 --> 00:00:43,116 Speaker 1: if you woke up to a fire alarm, you would 5 00:00:43,156 --> 00:00:46,956 Speaker 1: be in a state of emergency. And that's that's what 6 00:00:46,996 --> 00:00:49,796 Speaker 1: it felt like. And then it took me a few 7 00:00:49,796 --> 00:00:54,276 Speaker 1: seconds to realize that the sound actually wasn't coming from 8 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:56,716 Speaker 1: anywhere it was it was coming from inside my own head. 9 00:00:58,356 --> 00:01:01,236 Speaker 1: That was seven years ago, and every day since then, 10 00:01:01,596 --> 00:01:05,316 Speaker 1: Ramsey Cobaz has continued to hear that same persistent sound 11 00:01:05,356 --> 00:01:08,796 Speaker 1: in his head. If you're inside and you live on 12 00:01:08,796 --> 00:01:12,276 Speaker 1: a busy street and there's a truck backing up, the 13 00:01:12,636 --> 00:01:15,356 Speaker 1: beeping sound that it makes to kind of let pedestrians 14 00:01:15,396 --> 00:01:19,276 Speaker 1: know it's it's sort of that volume, but it's not 15 00:01:19,356 --> 00:01:24,516 Speaker 1: like a punctuated beeping. It's it's a persistent It was 16 00:01:24,796 --> 00:01:33,316 Speaker 1: literally the only sound just completely dominating my headspace. This 17 00:01:33,596 --> 00:01:36,796 Speaker 1: change Ramsey experienced, it was something doctors were able to 18 00:01:36,916 --> 00:01:39,996 Speaker 1: name and describe. They said it was tenitis with sudden 19 00:01:40,076 --> 00:01:43,156 Speaker 1: hearing loss in his left ear, but they couldn't explain 20 00:01:43,276 --> 00:01:46,476 Speaker 1: why it happened to Ramsey, So he went searching for 21 00:01:46,556 --> 00:01:50,036 Speaker 1: his own answer. I'm Maya Shunker and this is a 22 00:01:50,076 --> 00:01:52,756 Speaker 1: slight change of plans, a show that dives deep into 23 00:01:52,756 --> 00:01:54,996 Speaker 1: the world of change and hopefully gets us to think 24 00:01:55,036 --> 00:02:22,916 Speaker 1: differently about change in our own lives. Ramsey Kabaz remembers 25 00:02:22,916 --> 00:02:26,316 Speaker 1: the exact moment this happened. He was a sophomore in college. 26 00:02:26,356 --> 00:02:30,196 Speaker 1: It was Thursday, October sixteenth, twenty fourteen, a little after 27 00:02:30,316 --> 00:02:32,876 Speaker 1: nine am, when he woke up to a high pitched 28 00:02:32,956 --> 00:02:36,036 Speaker 1: ringing in his left ear. I remember running to the 29 00:02:36,036 --> 00:02:40,036 Speaker 1: bathroom and like literally looking inside of my ear and 30 00:02:40,156 --> 00:02:42,596 Speaker 1: feeling inside of my ear and trying to figure out 31 00:02:42,596 --> 00:02:44,076 Speaker 1: like what had happened, Like did I fall asleep with 32 00:02:44,156 --> 00:02:47,516 Speaker 1: my headphone's in? Is there something inside of my ear? 33 00:02:47,516 --> 00:02:50,596 Speaker 1: And obviously there wasn't, and I was really freaked out. 34 00:02:51,156 --> 00:02:53,796 Speaker 1: I called my mom and I was like, hey, I 35 00:02:53,836 --> 00:02:56,116 Speaker 1: think something's really wrong because I woke up with this 36 00:02:56,236 --> 00:02:58,996 Speaker 1: ringing in my ear and now I'm feeling really off balance, 37 00:02:59,796 --> 00:03:02,636 Speaker 1: and I'm talking to my mom on the phone and she's, 38 00:03:02,716 --> 00:03:05,116 Speaker 1: you know, asking me if I want to, you know, 39 00:03:05,356 --> 00:03:07,836 Speaker 1: for her to come pick me up and take me 40 00:03:07,876 --> 00:03:11,716 Speaker 1: to you know, the doc or something. And I switched 41 00:03:11,716 --> 00:03:13,596 Speaker 1: hands at some point, you know, I was I was 42 00:03:13,596 --> 00:03:15,596 Speaker 1: holding the phone with my right hand and I switched 43 00:03:15,596 --> 00:03:19,916 Speaker 1: over to my left hand and the call dropped, and 44 00:03:19,996 --> 00:03:23,356 Speaker 1: I was really confused and I was like hello, like 45 00:03:23,436 --> 00:03:26,356 Speaker 1: you there, and there was no sound, and so then 46 00:03:26,396 --> 00:03:28,796 Speaker 1: I eventually I switched hands again and she was back 47 00:03:28,836 --> 00:03:31,636 Speaker 1: and the call was back, and I remember putting it 48 00:03:31,676 --> 00:03:34,716 Speaker 1: together that oh my god, I can't hear anything out 49 00:03:34,716 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 1: of my left ear. I think this is it's not 50 00:03:36,836 --> 00:03:40,396 Speaker 1: the call dropping, it's it's my ear isn't working. So 51 00:03:40,476 --> 00:03:44,636 Speaker 1: I asked my mom to say the alphabet. She's confused, 52 00:03:44,636 --> 00:03:48,076 Speaker 1: but she's like, okay, um ABCD, And I switched over 53 00:03:48,156 --> 00:03:50,476 Speaker 1: to my left ear and there's nothing. And then I 54 00:03:50,516 --> 00:03:53,396 Speaker 1: switched back over to my right ear and L M 55 00:03:53,556 --> 00:03:56,156 Speaker 1: N O P and I you know, at that point, 56 00:03:56,236 --> 00:03:58,676 Speaker 1: I was like, I really think that I need to go, 57 00:03:59,396 --> 00:04:02,956 Speaker 1: you know, go to the doctor because something's something's not 58 00:04:03,036 --> 00:04:07,676 Speaker 1: right here. And did this doctor know immediately what was 59 00:04:07,716 --> 00:04:10,876 Speaker 1: going on? So this is kind of where where I 60 00:04:10,916 --> 00:04:14,956 Speaker 1: started to get a little frustrated, because you know, he 61 00:04:14,996 --> 00:04:18,516 Speaker 1: was telling me, yeah, you have you have sudden sudden 62 00:04:18,556 --> 00:04:21,436 Speaker 1: hearing loss. I was not in a good mood, as 63 00:04:21,476 --> 00:04:23,956 Speaker 1: you can imagine. I remember saying to him, yeah, I know, 64 00:04:24,356 --> 00:04:27,716 Speaker 1: I know that, Like it's it's pretty clear to me 65 00:04:27,756 --> 00:04:30,796 Speaker 1: that I have suddenly lost my hearing. Could you tell me? Why? 66 00:04:30,996 --> 00:04:33,476 Speaker 1: Could you tell me what happened? The best they can 67 00:04:33,516 --> 00:04:37,356 Speaker 1: do is just call the condition what the symptom is. 68 00:04:37,916 --> 00:04:40,076 Speaker 1: And I remember he listed off to me a bunch 69 00:04:40,116 --> 00:04:44,196 Speaker 1: of possible reasons, and it ranged from from, you know, 70 00:04:44,916 --> 00:04:47,116 Speaker 1: I had a concussion the previous year, so that was 71 00:04:47,756 --> 00:04:50,356 Speaker 1: it could have been a residual side effect of my concussion. 72 00:04:50,756 --> 00:04:52,956 Speaker 1: It could have been something related to my jaw. It 73 00:04:52,996 --> 00:04:56,916 Speaker 1: could have been an autoimmune reaction to some you know, 74 00:04:56,996 --> 00:04:59,996 Speaker 1: some virus. And then the one that he that he 75 00:05:00,076 --> 00:05:02,676 Speaker 1: told me at the end that really freaked me out was, 76 00:05:03,116 --> 00:05:05,636 Speaker 1: you know, because you're so young for something like this 77 00:05:05,676 --> 00:05:08,796 Speaker 1: to happen, it's possible that you have like a brain tumor. 78 00:05:09,396 --> 00:05:14,356 Speaker 1: And I remember hearing that and thinking, oh my god, 79 00:05:14,436 --> 00:05:19,916 Speaker 1: like you know, this is this is really fucking scary. 80 00:05:20,436 --> 00:05:23,276 Speaker 1: Do you mind just describing what it was like lying 81 00:05:23,676 --> 00:05:27,636 Speaker 1: in your bed that night? I think, just fear. You know, 82 00:05:28,876 --> 00:05:30,996 Speaker 1: It's it's like if somebody, when somebody tells you not 83 00:05:31,076 --> 00:05:35,196 Speaker 1: to think about elephants, you know, and then all you 84 00:05:35,236 --> 00:05:40,316 Speaker 1: can think about is elephants having the persistent tone, that 85 00:05:40,516 --> 00:05:43,876 Speaker 1: ringing just so loud, and no other sound in that 86 00:05:44,276 --> 00:05:49,196 Speaker 1: in that ear just like filling my head with fear. 87 00:05:49,396 --> 00:05:52,276 Speaker 1: And the fear was was just like literal it was 88 00:05:52,316 --> 00:05:55,796 Speaker 1: literalized by by this sound that was not going away. 89 00:05:55,836 --> 00:05:59,196 Speaker 1: And I was more or less told by the doctors 90 00:05:59,676 --> 00:06:01,836 Speaker 1: that it may never go away, that that sound may 91 00:06:01,916 --> 00:06:05,596 Speaker 1: just stay with me forever. If you try to go 92 00:06:05,676 --> 00:06:08,876 Speaker 1: to sleep with that sound playing in your room, that's 93 00:06:08,916 --> 00:06:10,716 Speaker 1: how difficult it was for me to go to sleep 94 00:06:10,716 --> 00:06:14,556 Speaker 1: that first night. So you wake up the next morning 95 00:06:15,396 --> 00:06:18,836 Speaker 1: and that ringing is still in your head. Did it 96 00:06:18,876 --> 00:06:21,916 Speaker 1: take your conscious brain just a moment or two to 97 00:06:21,956 --> 00:06:26,276 Speaker 1: register this new reality. Yeah. I remember waking up and 98 00:06:27,236 --> 00:06:32,196 Speaker 1: realizing or thinking and worrying that the only the only 99 00:06:32,196 --> 00:06:34,716 Speaker 1: silence I would ever get for the rest of my 100 00:06:34,756 --> 00:06:39,076 Speaker 1: life would be when I was asleep, Like there was 101 00:06:39,116 --> 00:06:41,356 Speaker 1: no there was no such thing as silence anymore. And 102 00:06:41,956 --> 00:06:45,716 Speaker 1: I what I remember about waking up before this happened 103 00:06:45,716 --> 00:06:47,516 Speaker 1: to me, was you know that feeling of like you 104 00:06:47,556 --> 00:06:50,996 Speaker 1: wake up and it's just quiet. It was like waking 105 00:06:51,076 --> 00:06:57,636 Speaker 1: up to an alarm. Wow, you had a brain scan 106 00:06:58,036 --> 00:07:00,596 Speaker 1: to figure out whether or not you had this tumor 107 00:07:00,676 --> 00:07:06,076 Speaker 1: in your brain. I went in for the MRI, and 108 00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:11,276 Speaker 1: if anyone's ever gotten an MRI m on you know 109 00:07:11,356 --> 00:07:14,876 Speaker 1: on their head before you go into this little like 110 00:07:14,996 --> 00:07:17,436 Speaker 1: it feels like a coffin almost, or like a tanning bed, 111 00:07:18,556 --> 00:07:20,916 Speaker 1: and you like slide in and there's a there's a 112 00:07:20,956 --> 00:07:24,796 Speaker 1: loud sort of whirring sound. But they gave me headphones 113 00:07:24,836 --> 00:07:26,676 Speaker 1: and they were like, hey, like, what kind of music 114 00:07:26,716 --> 00:07:28,996 Speaker 1: do you like? We can play whatever you whatever you 115 00:07:28,996 --> 00:07:32,076 Speaker 1: want on these headphones. And I was like, all right, well, 116 00:07:32,116 --> 00:07:35,356 Speaker 1: I like Bob Dylan, Can you play some Bob Dylan. 117 00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:38,836 Speaker 1: I think they had Pandora at that point at the hospital, 118 00:07:39,476 --> 00:07:41,916 Speaker 1: so they gave me. They put the headphones in and 119 00:07:41,956 --> 00:07:43,956 Speaker 1: I think the first song was like, I don't know, 120 00:07:44,076 --> 00:07:47,156 Speaker 1: maybe like a rolling stone or something. And then the 121 00:07:47,196 --> 00:07:51,236 Speaker 1: Pandora formula gave me Simon and Garfuncles the sound of silence. 122 00:07:52,876 --> 00:07:57,316 Speaker 1: So I'm in this MRI machine, you know, like weeping 123 00:07:59,276 --> 00:08:02,716 Speaker 1: with the sound of silence playing and this loud whirring 124 00:08:02,716 --> 00:08:05,276 Speaker 1: of the machine and the and the loud ringing in 125 00:08:05,316 --> 00:08:08,916 Speaker 1: my ear, and in retrospect it's like dark comedy you know, 126 00:08:09,236 --> 00:08:11,756 Speaker 1: just not knowing like what kind of information I was 127 00:08:11,756 --> 00:08:15,716 Speaker 1: going to get back from from this test um. And luckily, 128 00:08:15,996 --> 00:08:18,276 Speaker 1: you know, thank god, I did not have I did 129 00:08:18,276 --> 00:08:21,396 Speaker 1: not have a brain tumor. I think that I was 130 00:08:21,436 --> 00:08:23,676 Speaker 1: not really reassured by the fact that I didn't have 131 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:26,076 Speaker 1: a brain tumor. I was. I was grateful, of course, 132 00:08:26,116 --> 00:08:28,996 Speaker 1: but it didn't bring me the kind of peace that 133 00:08:29,076 --> 00:08:32,196 Speaker 1: I that I think it maybe should have or or 134 00:08:32,316 --> 00:08:35,396 Speaker 1: or could have. You know, one thing that's so interesting 135 00:08:35,396 --> 00:08:40,796 Speaker 1: about tonitis, so maddening about tonitis is that, unlike many 136 00:08:40,876 --> 00:08:45,156 Speaker 1: other challenges or afflictions we face in life, you can't 137 00:08:45,196 --> 00:08:47,596 Speaker 1: get a respite from it, right, You can't just take 138 00:08:47,716 --> 00:08:51,076 Speaker 1: a minute away. It was really hard. I mean, I 139 00:08:51,116 --> 00:08:54,196 Speaker 1: think I have the language now to describe it as 140 00:08:54,556 --> 00:08:57,636 Speaker 1: um as like a mental health crisis, you know. I 141 00:08:57,676 --> 00:09:01,396 Speaker 1: think I was really going through some some depression at 142 00:09:01,436 --> 00:09:04,756 Speaker 1: that time, and and a lot of anxiety because, like 143 00:09:04,796 --> 00:09:08,076 Speaker 1: you said, there's no there's no rest, you know, there's 144 00:09:08,116 --> 00:09:12,236 Speaker 1: no there's no relaxing. And it made me realize that 145 00:09:12,276 --> 00:09:18,436 Speaker 1: like having some quiet is really important. Having a chance 146 00:09:18,516 --> 00:09:21,516 Speaker 1: to like leave class and just kind of sit on 147 00:09:21,516 --> 00:09:25,916 Speaker 1: a bench and like not think about anything is really important, 148 00:09:25,956 --> 00:09:29,876 Speaker 1: and I didn't know how to how to pause anymore, 149 00:09:30,436 --> 00:09:33,516 Speaker 1: and so I think that that led to a lot 150 00:09:33,556 --> 00:09:36,476 Speaker 1: of anxiety. And then there was sort of this deeper 151 00:09:36,556 --> 00:09:40,036 Speaker 1: psychological thing that happened, which which is this fear of 152 00:09:40,076 --> 00:09:43,396 Speaker 1: my body just failing and things just just failing for 153 00:09:43,476 --> 00:09:46,956 Speaker 1: no reason. The depression part of it, or the you know, 154 00:09:46,996 --> 00:09:49,996 Speaker 1: the hopelessness part of it was more of like an 155 00:09:49,996 --> 00:09:53,316 Speaker 1: analytical thing happening in my brain where I was I 156 00:09:53,356 --> 00:09:56,956 Speaker 1: sort of did some transitive property calculation where I was like, well, 157 00:09:56,996 --> 00:09:58,676 Speaker 1: like if this, if I woke up one day and 158 00:09:58,716 --> 00:10:01,716 Speaker 1: this happened, then like what could happen tomorrow? You know? 159 00:10:02,236 --> 00:10:04,596 Speaker 1: And that led to a lot of a lot of 160 00:10:04,636 --> 00:10:11,076 Speaker 1: fear and a lot of you know, some depression. Which 161 00:10:11,156 --> 00:10:14,836 Speaker 1: thing was troubling you more? Was it the physiological sensation 162 00:10:14,876 --> 00:10:18,156 Speaker 1: of having this constant bringing in your ear or was 163 00:10:18,196 --> 00:10:23,716 Speaker 1: it this new realization about your own fragility and vulnerability 164 00:10:23,716 --> 00:10:26,676 Speaker 1: and the fact that your body could just fail you 165 00:10:26,716 --> 00:10:31,196 Speaker 1: at any moment in time. Well, to me, they were related, 166 00:10:31,436 --> 00:10:39,236 Speaker 1: because the physiological experience of being distracted and being you know, 167 00:10:39,316 --> 00:10:44,076 Speaker 1: not having rest was it was it was acting as 168 00:10:44,116 --> 00:10:50,716 Speaker 1: a reminder of the existential stuff, the existential questioning, and 169 00:10:51,556 --> 00:10:55,996 Speaker 1: you know, those big sort of difficult, morbid questions, like 170 00:10:56,236 --> 00:10:59,796 Speaker 1: we're just as persistent as the sound, if that makes sense, 171 00:11:00,316 --> 00:11:04,916 Speaker 1: Because to me, like not having the brain tumor, you know, 172 00:11:05,156 --> 00:11:07,676 Speaker 1: I think I was trying to tell myself that, like, Okay, 173 00:11:07,676 --> 00:11:11,596 Speaker 1: well the worst didn't happen here, you know, like things 174 00:11:11,636 --> 00:11:14,356 Speaker 1: aren't that different. You know, it could have been. It 175 00:11:14,396 --> 00:11:17,716 Speaker 1: could have been so much more different if chance had 176 00:11:17,716 --> 00:11:21,476 Speaker 1: sort of broken in a different way. And so I 177 00:11:21,516 --> 00:11:24,836 Speaker 1: think I was not being honest with myself about the 178 00:11:24,876 --> 00:11:27,156 Speaker 1: fact that, like the condition that I was experiencing was 179 00:11:27,316 --> 00:11:34,476 Speaker 1: really dramatic. We'll be right back with a slight change 180 00:11:34,476 --> 00:11:49,516 Speaker 1: of plants. Ramsay Cobaz could not find a medical explanation 181 00:11:49,636 --> 00:11:52,276 Speaker 1: for his tenitis, even after speaking with over a half 182 00:11:52,316 --> 00:11:55,156 Speaker 1: dozen doctors about it. He tried to find ways to 183 00:11:55,156 --> 00:11:58,076 Speaker 1: cope with it, that nothing was working, and he continued 184 00:11:58,116 --> 00:12:01,476 Speaker 1: to feel despondent. One night, about a month after this 185 00:12:01,556 --> 00:12:04,116 Speaker 1: all began, he was out with his girlfriend and they 186 00:12:04,156 --> 00:12:06,916 Speaker 1: noticed that an old movie called Hannah and Her Sisters 187 00:12:07,036 --> 00:12:09,876 Speaker 1: was playing that night at the local theater. Neither of 188 00:12:09,916 --> 00:12:12,876 Speaker 1: them had seen it, so they bought two tickets and 189 00:12:12,996 --> 00:12:16,076 Speaker 1: as a warning, this next section contains a brief mention 190 00:12:16,156 --> 00:12:19,996 Speaker 1: of suicide. And it's a movie where basically there's there's 191 00:12:20,036 --> 00:12:25,836 Speaker 1: one subplot where a character who's like a hypochondriac wakes 192 00:12:25,916 --> 00:12:28,676 Speaker 1: up with like a ringing or buzzing in his ear 193 00:12:29,396 --> 00:12:33,716 Speaker 1: and he kind of freaks out, goes to the doctor, 194 00:12:33,716 --> 00:12:35,396 Speaker 1: and the doctor tells him that he might have a 195 00:12:35,396 --> 00:12:39,676 Speaker 1: brain tumor, and then he is sent down this like 196 00:12:39,756 --> 00:12:43,596 Speaker 1: existential spiral. And I'm sitting there watching this movie, like, 197 00:12:43,796 --> 00:12:47,756 Speaker 1: you know, like nudging my girlfriend like can you believe this? 198 00:12:47,796 --> 00:12:51,196 Speaker 1: Like this is pretty fucking weird that like this is 199 00:12:51,476 --> 00:12:54,156 Speaker 1: happening sort of on the margins of this movie, Like 200 00:12:54,196 --> 00:12:56,636 Speaker 1: this story is exactly what I've been going through this 201 00:12:56,756 --> 00:13:00,716 Speaker 1: past few weeks. And then he's basically suicidal in his 202 00:13:00,756 --> 00:13:04,996 Speaker 1: apartment and he has a gun and he's like the 203 00:13:05,076 --> 00:13:08,156 Speaker 1: gun misfires and he kind of freaks out, and so 204 00:13:08,196 --> 00:13:10,676 Speaker 1: he leaves his apartment and is walking around New York 205 00:13:10,716 --> 00:13:14,516 Speaker 1: City and he wanders into a movie theater and he 206 00:13:14,596 --> 00:13:17,636 Speaker 1: sits down and it's like an old gradual Marx movie 207 00:13:18,236 --> 00:13:22,276 Speaker 1: that is really funny and makes him laugh. He says 208 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:27,876 Speaker 1: that basically the fact of walking into this movie theater 209 00:13:28,036 --> 00:13:33,756 Speaker 1: and feeling comforted by movies was sort of restorative of 210 00:13:33,836 --> 00:13:38,156 Speaker 1: his spiritual crisis. And so I'm sitting there in the theater, 211 00:13:39,316 --> 00:13:42,716 Speaker 1: like looking at this character looking up at a screen, 212 00:13:43,436 --> 00:13:49,636 Speaker 1: basically recounting exactly what I was experiencing. You know, I 213 00:13:49,716 --> 00:13:52,076 Speaker 1: loved movies. I was studying movies at that time, like 214 00:13:52,196 --> 00:13:55,876 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a director and a writer. It 215 00:13:55,916 --> 00:13:59,396 Speaker 1: felt meaningful, and I think that that's that's one thing 216 00:13:59,396 --> 00:14:02,196 Speaker 1: that I really clinged onto. So I was feeling hope 217 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:07,196 Speaker 1: because the movie reflected my experience in a way that 218 00:14:07,316 --> 00:14:11,516 Speaker 1: felt so unlikely that it must mean something. You know, 219 00:14:12,876 --> 00:14:17,716 Speaker 1: it is such a common feature of human psychology to 220 00:14:18,996 --> 00:14:22,836 Speaker 1: want to create narratives and stories for ourselves to try 221 00:14:22,836 --> 00:14:26,596 Speaker 1: to make sense of our lives. And this tendency, this 222 00:14:26,716 --> 00:14:30,756 Speaker 1: aspect of human nature we're always trying to build stories 223 00:14:31,356 --> 00:14:35,276 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why we are so resilient. Yeah. 224 00:14:35,356 --> 00:14:38,436 Speaker 1: I mean, well, there's that famous jendating quote we tell 225 00:14:38,436 --> 00:14:41,396 Speaker 1: ourselves stories in order to live. I think it's true. 226 00:14:41,436 --> 00:14:45,076 Speaker 1: It's like we all have this narrative about ourselves. I 227 00:14:45,116 --> 00:14:49,836 Speaker 1: think when something unexpected happens for a reason that doesn't 228 00:14:49,836 --> 00:14:52,436 Speaker 1: track with what you've been telling yourself about yourself. You 229 00:14:52,476 --> 00:14:56,956 Speaker 1: need to fit it into your story somehow. I'm wondering 230 00:14:56,996 --> 00:15:03,556 Speaker 1: what impact the tenitis had on your relationships. The way 231 00:15:03,556 --> 00:15:07,396 Speaker 1: that I was coping with it socially was to kind 232 00:15:07,396 --> 00:15:11,676 Speaker 1: of just withdraw, I think for the practical reasons of 233 00:15:11,916 --> 00:15:16,036 Speaker 1: of not really being willing or able to go to 234 00:15:16,116 --> 00:15:19,476 Speaker 1: like loud spaces like parties and concerts, but then also 235 00:15:19,516 --> 00:15:23,276 Speaker 1: for the psychological reasons of just feeling not super fun, 236 00:15:23,676 --> 00:15:26,036 Speaker 1: not super fun to be around, Like I wasn't I 237 00:15:26,076 --> 00:15:28,476 Speaker 1: wasn't making jokes, I wasn't a great hang at that time, 238 00:15:28,596 --> 00:15:31,196 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I remember I was living 239 00:15:31,196 --> 00:15:34,836 Speaker 1: in a house off campus, and I was I was 240 00:15:34,876 --> 00:15:38,476 Speaker 1: sitting on the porch of the house, which was like 241 00:15:38,516 --> 00:15:42,236 Speaker 1: a little bit elevated above the sidewalk, and um, and 242 00:15:42,276 --> 00:15:45,316 Speaker 1: I was it was dark, and I could hear some 243 00:15:45,356 --> 00:15:48,436 Speaker 1: people kind of walking on the sidewalk below, and I 244 00:15:48,476 --> 00:15:50,436 Speaker 1: heard I heard someone say my name. I heard someone 245 00:15:50,476 --> 00:15:52,796 Speaker 1: say like, oh, like, doesn't Ramsey live in this house? 246 00:15:53,556 --> 00:15:57,036 Speaker 1: And then I heard a second voice say yeah, fuck 247 00:15:57,116 --> 00:16:02,916 Speaker 1: that guy. And I was just like I was like, 248 00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:06,196 Speaker 1: oh shit, Like like do what should I say? Like 249 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:08,716 Speaker 1: should I make myself known, like what do I do here? 250 00:16:09,636 --> 00:16:11,916 Speaker 1: And I realized I kind of like took a peek, 251 00:16:11,956 --> 00:16:15,596 Speaker 1: and I realized that the person who said that was 252 00:16:15,596 --> 00:16:19,316 Speaker 1: was one of my closest friends from freshman year. And 253 00:16:19,396 --> 00:16:23,436 Speaker 1: I can hear I can hear the guy saying like, yeah, 254 00:16:23,516 --> 00:16:25,916 Speaker 1: like I don't know what happened to that guy, Like 255 00:16:25,996 --> 00:16:28,036 Speaker 1: he he never wants to hang out, like I haven't 256 00:16:28,036 --> 00:16:30,876 Speaker 1: seen him in so long, Like he's he was clearly 257 00:16:30,956 --> 00:16:33,956 Speaker 1: hurt that, like I had kind of fallen off the map, 258 00:16:35,116 --> 00:16:41,356 Speaker 1: and man like that was a really important signal to 259 00:16:41,436 --> 00:16:47,196 Speaker 1: me that like my inability to communicate about this experience 260 00:16:48,076 --> 00:16:54,156 Speaker 1: honestly with people and my tendency to just withdraw instead 261 00:16:54,156 --> 00:16:58,036 Speaker 1: of offering some kind of an explanation was actually like, 262 00:16:59,036 --> 00:17:01,276 Speaker 1: you know, people were experiencing that in a way that 263 00:17:01,436 --> 00:17:05,196 Speaker 1: was absolutely not what I intended I had. I had 264 00:17:05,236 --> 00:17:08,956 Speaker 1: sort of let some some people down. I think like 265 00:17:09,316 --> 00:17:13,796 Speaker 1: a big turning point for you. The realization that you know, 266 00:17:14,036 --> 00:17:16,596 Speaker 1: I'm I don't know how to communicate about this to others, 267 00:17:16,716 --> 00:17:18,876 Speaker 1: and I think, as you mentioned, I don't know even 268 00:17:18,956 --> 00:17:22,636 Speaker 1: how to communicate this to myself. Was that a strong 269 00:17:22,676 --> 00:17:27,116 Speaker 1: source of motivation for you to really aggressively confront this 270 00:17:27,196 --> 00:17:31,916 Speaker 1: problem and tackle it on an emotional level. Yes, it 271 00:17:32,036 --> 00:17:35,756 Speaker 1: was a bit of a turning point where I just 272 00:17:35,796 --> 00:17:40,196 Speaker 1: became more aware that, like, I can't just deal with 273 00:17:40,236 --> 00:17:44,956 Speaker 1: this as something that like was a dodged bullet just 274 00:17:45,036 --> 00:17:48,436 Speaker 1: because I didn't have a brain tumor. Like, this was 275 00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:52,836 Speaker 1: still a big deal and very formative and very consequential 276 00:17:53,036 --> 00:17:56,156 Speaker 1: to my development. And I need to just like say 277 00:17:56,156 --> 00:17:58,316 Speaker 1: that to people when I when they get to know me, 278 00:17:58,316 --> 00:18:02,996 Speaker 1: because it's an important factor in my story. I'm curious Ramsey, 279 00:18:03,036 --> 00:18:08,436 Speaker 1: whether finally acknowledging what a big deal this was in 280 00:18:08,516 --> 00:18:13,156 Speaker 1: some way helped you better manage the physiological experience of 281 00:18:13,196 --> 00:18:17,756 Speaker 1: the tonitis. I think there was two distinct recoveries. There 282 00:18:17,836 --> 00:18:22,676 Speaker 1: was my psychological sort of reasoning of the experience and 283 00:18:22,836 --> 00:18:25,556 Speaker 1: becoming more honest with myself and others about it. And 284 00:18:25,596 --> 00:18:30,236 Speaker 1: then there was simultaneously a physiological thing that happened that 285 00:18:30,316 --> 00:18:32,836 Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain, where my brain just 286 00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:37,156 Speaker 1: stopped perceiving it the way that it did initially. I'm 287 00:18:37,196 --> 00:18:40,916 Speaker 1: really interested in how my brain was able to over 288 00:18:40,956 --> 00:18:45,356 Speaker 1: time learn how to not be alarmed by it anymore. 289 00:18:46,636 --> 00:18:50,516 Speaker 1: I know, in the case of anxiety research that if 290 00:18:50,556 --> 00:18:53,396 Speaker 1: you find ways to feel less threatened by an anxious thought, 291 00:18:53,676 --> 00:18:56,236 Speaker 1: it really does lose power over you and can become 292 00:18:56,316 --> 00:19:00,676 Speaker 1: something you notice less. Does this mirror your experience with tonitis? 293 00:19:02,596 --> 00:19:07,356 Speaker 1: When I think about the sound, I used to think 294 00:19:07,356 --> 00:19:12,156 Speaker 1: about it as like as as like some kind of 295 00:19:12,196 --> 00:19:15,636 Speaker 1: like a like a conscious enemy, if that makes sense, 296 00:19:15,836 --> 00:19:19,436 Speaker 1: like something that was that I was fighting, you know. 297 00:19:20,476 --> 00:19:23,036 Speaker 1: And now when I hear it, like right now, I 298 00:19:23,036 --> 00:19:25,276 Speaker 1: can just kind of like stop for a second and 299 00:19:25,276 --> 00:19:28,116 Speaker 1: be like, yet, there it is so there. I don't 300 00:19:28,156 --> 00:19:30,756 Speaker 1: think of it as an enemy. I literally just think 301 00:19:30,756 --> 00:19:34,956 Speaker 1: of it like, you know, it's my hand, or like 302 00:19:34,996 --> 00:19:37,876 Speaker 1: it's my finger, you know, like it's just a part 303 00:19:37,916 --> 00:19:44,156 Speaker 1: of my physical self. It's just there. You know. Sometimes 304 00:19:44,236 --> 00:19:47,316 Speaker 1: I'm a little like like I wish this could just 305 00:19:47,356 --> 00:19:49,836 Speaker 1: go away. But other times I'm just like, yeah, it's 306 00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:52,636 Speaker 1: there and doesn't bother me. It's not I'm not fighting it, 307 00:19:52,756 --> 00:19:56,316 Speaker 1: you know. And I think I remember the first day 308 00:19:56,836 --> 00:20:01,036 Speaker 1: that I realized that I hadn't thought about it the 309 00:20:01,156 --> 00:20:05,796 Speaker 1: previous day where I woke up, I was like eating 310 00:20:05,796 --> 00:20:09,276 Speaker 1: breakfast or something, and then I like remembered it. It 311 00:20:09,316 --> 00:20:11,116 Speaker 1: was there like it always is, and I heard it, 312 00:20:11,796 --> 00:20:14,316 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking to myself, like, holy shit, I 313 00:20:14,396 --> 00:20:17,436 Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think I thought about this yesterday. 314 00:20:17,676 --> 00:20:21,036 Speaker 1: Like I don't think I perceived this sound all day yesterday. 315 00:20:21,076 --> 00:20:24,476 Speaker 1: I don't remember pausing and getting frustrated. I don't remember 316 00:20:25,436 --> 00:20:28,076 Speaker 1: thinking about it, hearing it like turning on a fan 317 00:20:28,156 --> 00:20:30,036 Speaker 1: to mask it. I think I just went the whole 318 00:20:30,116 --> 00:20:33,396 Speaker 1: day yesterday the way that I would have if I 319 00:20:33,436 --> 00:20:36,556 Speaker 1: didn't have this ring in my ear, And that was 320 00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:42,276 Speaker 1: inexplicable to me and like so comforting to know that, 321 00:20:42,316 --> 00:20:45,676 Speaker 1: like it didn't need to go away in order for 322 00:20:45,796 --> 00:20:51,236 Speaker 1: me to not perceive it. When you put different labels 323 00:20:51,276 --> 00:20:53,756 Speaker 1: on an anxious thought, right as not being the enemy, 324 00:20:53,876 --> 00:20:56,956 Speaker 1: like you know, it's equivalent of visualizing wanting to like 325 00:20:57,076 --> 00:21:01,876 Speaker 1: smash the anxious thought with a baseball bat, versus imagining 326 00:21:01,916 --> 00:21:03,996 Speaker 1: that's the thing in the sky just floating by you 327 00:21:04,116 --> 00:21:07,076 Speaker 1: and you notice it and you acknowledge it and you 328 00:21:07,156 --> 00:21:10,116 Speaker 1: let it pass, and it's the same thought in the 329 00:21:10,156 --> 00:21:13,116 Speaker 1: same way. That's the same sound for you, right, but 330 00:21:13,196 --> 00:21:15,996 Speaker 1: it just doesn't have the same power over your anxious 331 00:21:16,036 --> 00:21:19,956 Speaker 1: brain as it did before. Yeah, yeah, actually I've never 332 00:21:19,956 --> 00:21:22,996 Speaker 1: thought this before, but I've never put this together. But 333 00:21:23,636 --> 00:21:26,476 Speaker 1: I think of it as quiet now, I guess if 334 00:21:26,516 --> 00:21:29,196 Speaker 1: that makes sense, like it is it is my version 335 00:21:29,236 --> 00:21:32,676 Speaker 1: of quiet when I can't hear anything else but it. 336 00:21:33,596 --> 00:21:37,996 Speaker 1: That's just sort of my like my meditation space. That's 337 00:21:37,996 --> 00:21:41,836 Speaker 1: what it feels like to me. If I had asked 338 00:21:41,876 --> 00:21:44,796 Speaker 1: twenty year old Ramsey, how's this whole tonightist thing going 339 00:21:44,876 --> 00:21:48,076 Speaker 1: to play out for you? What's required in order for 340 00:21:48,196 --> 00:21:50,236 Speaker 1: you to be okay with this? What do you think 341 00:21:50,236 --> 00:21:53,476 Speaker 1: he would have said? I think I would have had 342 00:21:53,516 --> 00:21:59,876 Speaker 1: like a determination about me to resolve it medically, because 343 00:21:59,916 --> 00:22:05,116 Speaker 1: I remember at that time I went to no joke. 344 00:22:05,276 --> 00:22:08,236 Speaker 1: I think I went to like eight or nine doctors, 345 00:22:09,236 --> 00:22:13,476 Speaker 1: and the fact that I didn't get an explanation that 346 00:22:13,516 --> 00:22:19,276 Speaker 1: was satisfying to me was so frustrating for so long that, like, 347 00:22:20,996 --> 00:22:24,476 Speaker 1: I think I just wanted to continue to track that down. 348 00:22:26,316 --> 00:22:28,796 Speaker 1: I think I would have probably told you, like, I'm 349 00:22:28,796 --> 00:22:30,756 Speaker 1: going to figure out what happened, and I'm gonna I'm 350 00:22:30,756 --> 00:22:33,756 Speaker 1: gonna solve it. I'm gonna get my I'm gonna get 351 00:22:33,756 --> 00:22:38,036 Speaker 1: my silence. Because even if it doesn't mean that you're 352 00:22:38,076 --> 00:22:42,676 Speaker 1: going to get what you want, sometimes an answer feels 353 00:22:43,156 --> 00:22:45,196 Speaker 1: like it's like fool's gold, but like it feels like 354 00:22:45,236 --> 00:22:47,596 Speaker 1: it might make a difference even even when it won't. 355 00:22:48,076 --> 00:22:53,916 Speaker 1: But obviously I would have been wrong. Like I can't 356 00:22:53,916 --> 00:22:56,236 Speaker 1: even be bothered to read like a research paper that 357 00:22:56,316 --> 00:22:59,596 Speaker 1: my like med school friend sends me. Now about this, 358 00:22:59,716 --> 00:23:02,916 Speaker 1: Like I it's it's not only that I'm not actively 359 00:23:02,916 --> 00:23:06,516 Speaker 1: pursuing an answer or or a resolution, it's that I'm 360 00:23:06,556 --> 00:23:31,236 Speaker 1: like indifferent to it. Hey, thanks for listening. Join me 361 00:23:31,316 --> 00:23:34,036 Speaker 1: next week when I chat with Grammy winning singer songwriter 362 00:23:34,156 --> 00:23:37,716 Speaker 1: Kasey Musgraves. We talk about her upcoming album and the 363 00:23:37,796 --> 00:23:40,876 Speaker 1: impact A psychedelic Trip has had on her creative process. 364 00:23:42,076 --> 00:23:45,876 Speaker 1: Literally the day after my experience, I mean, it was 365 00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:51,356 Speaker 1: like the neurons were just firing off, like insane imagery perspective. 366 00:23:51,956 --> 00:23:56,996 Speaker 1: I mean there was a massive explosion of creativity ideas. 367 00:23:57,036 --> 00:23:59,916 Speaker 1: The whole concept for my new album that I've been writing, 368 00:24:09,756 --> 00:24:12,796 Speaker 1: A slight change of Plans is created an executive produced 369 00:24:12,876 --> 00:24:16,876 Speaker 1: by me Maya Shunker. Big thanks to everyone at Pushkin Industries, 370 00:24:17,276 --> 00:24:21,516 Speaker 1: including our producer Mola Board, associate producers David Jaw and 371 00:24:21,596 --> 00:24:26,436 Speaker 1: Julia Goodman, executive producers Mia Lavelle and Justine Lange, senior 372 00:24:26,596 --> 00:24:30,356 Speaker 1: editor Jen Guera, and sound design and mixed engineers Ben 373 00:24:30,396 --> 00:24:34,676 Speaker 1: Holliday and Jason Gambrel. Thanks also to Louise Gara who 374 00:24:34,756 --> 00:24:37,316 Speaker 1: wrote our theme song, and Ginger Smith who helped arrange 375 00:24:37,316 --> 00:24:41,916 Speaker 1: the vocals, incidental music from Epidemic Sound, and of course 376 00:24:42,116 --> 00:24:45,596 Speaker 1: a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow 377 00:24:45,636 --> 00:24:48,916 Speaker 1: a slight change of plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Shunker. 378 00:24:57,916 --> 00:24:59,756 Speaker 1: Do you visualize it at all? Though? Like, does it 379 00:24:59,876 --> 00:25:02,236 Speaker 1: have a shape or a form? So he's been curious 380 00:25:02,276 --> 00:25:03,876 Speaker 1: about up. This is going to be kind of weird. 381 00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:07,076 Speaker 1: I've never answered this question before. It feels like a 382 00:25:07,116 --> 00:25:10,596 Speaker 1: shooting star, kind of like there's some kind of like 383 00:25:10,636 --> 00:25:16,836 Speaker 1: a like a fluttery, sparkly shimmer around the very direct, fast, 384 00:25:16,996 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 1: straight line, if that makes sense. That's a cool question. 385 00:25:21,116 --> 00:25:23,596 Speaker 1: I've literally never I've never said that or thought that 386 00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:26,956 Speaker 1: out loud, but like that's pretty much what it feels like. Wow, 387 00:25:27,236 --> 00:25:33,396 Speaker 1: shooting star. Yeah, just like straight, bright, thin and like 388 00:25:33,476 --> 00:25:37,516 Speaker 1: you notice it. It's just a shooting star in my ear. 389 00:25:38,556 --> 00:25:40,316 Speaker 1: Everyone wants a shooting star in their ear.