1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair 2 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: over the last few days. When I tell people we're 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: doing a podcast with Eric Repair, their face is light up. 4 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: At the River Cafe, we spend our days making ravioli 5 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: with Ricotta viielenchi anti, pannacotta with grappa. But when we 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: as chefs come together, we talk about French food. The bouliebss, 7 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: the palm d'au finoise, the tartetans. Eric Cooke's French food 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: were inspired by Italian but maybe we're not so different. 9 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: He's been the chef at Bernadine, his Mission and three 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: star Fish and Seafood restaurant for more than thirty years. 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,319 Speaker 1: I'm ahead by four years, having cooked at The River 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Cafe since nineteen eighty seven and a profession that is 13 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: ever changing and always challenging. Eric is an inspiration, a mentor, 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: and someone we look up to today. I'm here in 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: New York with him talking about us living in different cities, 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: cooking the food of different countries. But you know what, 17 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: we're pretty much the same, two chefs with much to share. 18 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for being here, and 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: thank you for this great introduction. 20 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: No, that's true. So I thought it would be disrespectful 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: for the great chef to read a recipe from the 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: River Cafe. So I would like you to read it 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: yourself of one of your recipes, and we chose the 24 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: few soup. I'm going to start with a quote from you, Eric. Yes, 25 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: and you wrote in this book, think about your favorite dish. 26 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: For many of us, it's something we ate in childhood, 27 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: whose deliciousness lies in how uncomplicated it is. For me, 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: it's a simple fish soup made by my grandmother. This 29 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: is the most rewarding way to approach cooking, using culinary 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: knowledge to achieve simplicity. 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: Yes, I have very vivid memories of grandma doing the 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: fish soup youtail. 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, tell me about your grandma. 34 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: So I had two grandmothers, one was Italian, one from Provence, 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: and they both made fish soup by the way, of course, 36 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 2: But my favorite memory is the one from the Italian grandmother. 37 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: Because on the weekend, the family would gather together, like 38 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: all the uncles and cousins and my grandfather and grandma 39 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 2: and so on, and they would go fishing and scuba 40 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: diving and catching whatever they would catch. And then my 41 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: grandmother was in charge of the lunch. She would make 42 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 2: the table for twenty people, twenty five people. She would 43 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: prepare a lot of things, salads and appetizer, but she 44 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: would prepare for the fish soup. So whatever fish was 45 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: coming back, it will be cleaned very quickly, and then 46 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: she would make the fish soup. They're own side and 47 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: we will eat that fish soup. I don't know an 48 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: hour later or two hours lad that was cooked under 49 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 2: the trees overlooking them. Yes, no, close to antibet between 50 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: auntiebe and and can. 51 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: Okay, well, do you want to read the recipe and 52 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: we can talk more about so we're going to talk 53 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: about So. 54 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: For the fish soup, we use a quark cup of 55 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: extra vaginallyve oil, one medium onion thinly sliced, half a 56 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: bulb of fennel trimmed and thinly slice as well, four 57 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: cloves of garlic chopped, one teaspoon of saffron thread, three 58 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: cups of can whole tomato with their juice, a corek 59 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: cup of perno one bay leave, two pounds of egg 60 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: chile skin cut into chunks. Or you can ask a 61 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: fishmonger for Lian white fish scraps potentially finds the salt 62 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: and freshly grinded black pepper. And then in a large, 63 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: heavy bottom pot, you eat the extravaginallyve oil over medium heat. 64 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: You add the onions, the fennel, the garlic, and you 65 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: sote for five minutes. You steer in the saffron and 66 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: cook until the vegetables are soften and translucent, which takes 67 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: about five minutes. Again, then you crush the tomatoes with 68 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: a fork. You add them to the pot along with 69 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: perno and the bay leaf. Then you season the fish 70 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: with sea salt and white paper and add it to 71 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: the pot. You add enough water to cover the fish 72 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: by about one inch. You bring it to seamur and 73 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: you cook for twenty five minutes. Then you remove from 74 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 2: the heat and you let stand for five minutes. You 75 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: remove the bay leaf, and then you strain the broth, 76 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: throw a colander into a pot. You pure the fish 77 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: and vegetables badgies ah. 78 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: You put them yeah in. 79 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 2: A food meal and whisked the purrey back into the broth. 80 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: And then you season with sea salt and white pepper, 81 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: and then you divide into among warm bowls. So that's 82 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: the recipe of the book inspired by Grandma Grama. Was 83 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: not using egg, she was using whatever she was she 84 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 2: was having. 85 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: And you said she made this every week? Did she 86 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: always make this version of it? 87 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: Was very similar to this, and she would improvise a 88 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 2: lot as well, you know, I mean for the book, 89 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: we had to say half a cup, quarter of a cup. 90 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 2: She was not measuring. She was like, okay, give me 91 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: the garlic, let's feel it and let's drop it. And 92 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: the same thing with the onions. It was very instinctive. 93 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: She didn't have to really follow a recipe. 94 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: And did she inspire you to cook? Then she was 95 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: the person that made you want to be a chef. 96 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: My two grandmothers inspired me a lot, and my mother 97 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 2: was an amazing, amazing chef. 98 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: Tell me because it was interesting, always say that in 99 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: all these interviews that we've done. 100 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: The grandmother, the Italian one, was cooking very Italian soul food. 101 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: She was cooking like great Italian, Northern Italian food, and 102 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: I loved it. And then my grandmother from Provence was 103 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: doing the same with proven sal food as well, which 104 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 2: is a little bit similar than Northern Italian, but as 105 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: some sortle differences. 106 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: I did the drive quite recently from Santa marc Rita 107 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: to Genoa to Nice and suddenly you were in Italy 108 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: and now you're in France, and you know, the farinata 109 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: which they do in Italy is the Italian version of 110 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: the socca, So yeah, which is in Nice. And what 111 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: else do they cook? 112 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: Like my grandmother in Provence, she was from the region 113 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: of Avignon, so in Avignon they're not close to the sea, 114 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 2: they are obviously inland, and she would do like a 115 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: baby leg of lamb roasted. And then my grandmother, the 116 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: Italian grandmother, wouldn't do that, but she would do She 117 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: would do alsobuco, for instance. My grandmother in Provence would 118 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: do a cocoveraine. My grandmother in Italy didn't know what 119 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: cocoveraine was. And those were subtle differences, but they were important. 120 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: My mother was obsessed with the chefs from Nouvelle cuisine 121 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 2: at the time, so the Michelle Gerard, the Paul Booquz 122 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: that generation. And at home she was cooking lunch and dinner, 123 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: those elaborate meals with appetizer, main course, cheese which she 124 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: didn't cook, and dessert that were different from lunch to 125 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: dinner on a different pattern. Of tablecloth, different china. It 126 00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: was unbelievable. 127 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: Would she be cooking for She. 128 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 2: Was cooking for myself, stepfather and my sister when when 129 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: she was old enough to be at the table with us, 130 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: because she's much younger than me. 131 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: She did this every day, every day. 132 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: She would Well, she was a business lady, so she 133 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: was in the fashion industry. She was importing the brand 134 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: Courage for Spain, Spain and underground. Yes, and so she 135 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: was very busy with the business. But she would wake 136 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: up at five am to prepare the meal and then 137 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 2: she she would finish whatever needs to be finished, all 138 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: the little details during lunchtime, and then same thing at night. 139 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: And sometimes after the dinner she would start to cook 140 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: for the like the desserts. Like if she was doing 141 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: I don't know a baba room, she would start to 142 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: let the baba do you know rise and so on. Yes, 143 00:08:58,480 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: I mean it was amazing. 144 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: She would have liked to have done that as a career. 145 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: No, no, she was she wanted. She wanted to do 146 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: it because for the art of doing it, for the 147 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: love of doing it, and she wanted to feed the family. 148 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: So you had this incredible life of having food that 149 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: was cared. You know, it was a priority in her 150 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: day and your stepfather. 151 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: And different styles too. Did you ever cook with her 152 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: with my mom later in life, because on the beginning, 153 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: they allow me to watch and eat anything I wanted, 154 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: but they really didn't want me to touch anything. They 155 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: were like, you're going to mess up the kitchen, don't 156 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: touch it. So I was eating, and just before I 157 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 2: went to culinary school, my mom started to allow me 158 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: to help her in the kitchen. 159 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: She sounds amazing and she's still cooking. 160 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: She cooks for herself, and she sent me pictures sometimes 161 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god, this is amazing. Like 162 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: the other day she did the dog comfee and then 163 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: you know, she hasked, I don't know what you call it, 164 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: those little for the for the bone, those little. 165 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: White white things, yeah yeah, those white yeah. Yeah. 166 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: So she still have those kind of details, and I'm like, 167 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: oh my god, how can you do that? 168 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: How do you look back at the food of the 169 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: nouvelle cuisine. What do you think when you when you 170 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: think of that food. 171 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: Well, as you know, nouvelle cuisine at one point became 172 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 2: really a bad world, and it became a caricature. 173 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: Of big plates and food, and. 174 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: I always have this image of like three string beans 175 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: parallel to each other. But novelle cuisine on the beginning 176 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: was a revolution. We were coming out of the era 177 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: of escoffi. It was a different mindset where the sauce 178 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 2: was not hiding anymore the flavors, but the sauce was 179 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: enhancing the star of the plate, which was whatever protein, 180 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: mostly or vegetable you decide. And also it was the 181 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: first time that chefs were playing their food. Until then, 182 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: the food was on platters and the waiters were serving 183 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: the food or the clients were serving themselves from the platter. 184 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 2: But the first chef to say I'm planning my food 185 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: in my plate was the drug Row. 186 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: So you grew up in a house where food was 187 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: a priority, where your mother cooked, your grandmother's cooked. Tell 188 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: us when about your journey to becoming a chef, from 189 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: being a child that wasn't allowed in the kitchen to 190 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: being I think a fifteen year old that started cooking. 191 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: What happened at fifteen when you decided to be well. 192 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: At fifteen, I cannot go to school any longer because 193 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: my grades are so bad. So I ended up in 194 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: the principal office with mom and is explaining to her 195 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: that I have to find out what they call a 196 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 2: vocational school or a career. That's nineteen eighty and I 197 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: look sad, but I'm really happy because I want to 198 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: go to culinary school. So the principal promised to my 199 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: mother that he would do everything possible to send me 200 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: to a culinary school. And he had a friend who 201 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 2: was a principal in Perpignon, and I was accepted. I 202 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: don't know how, but I was accepted in culinary school. 203 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: And then I was a very good student there. 204 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: That's the thing, if you find what you love it. 205 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: I really loved everything about the restaurant industry. I was 206 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: the first year. We were waders and cooks. We were 207 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: learning both and we had some classes of a knowlogy, 208 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 2: which is about the wine. And I was having a 209 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: blast and my grades were excellent. In matth I was 210 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: still a bit weak, but I was putting a lot 211 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: of efforts. I was good in Spanish because I live 212 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: in Adora, so I would I could speak Spanish and French. 213 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: I didn't speak English at the time. And in the 214 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 2: kitchen I was a little bit bored because we were 215 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: learning old fashioned recipes from Escoffia basically, so I was 216 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: a bit bored, but I knew I was learning the basics, 217 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 2: so I was very diligent about listening to what the 218 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: directions were from the teachers, and my grades were great 219 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 2: on the first year. On the second year, same thing. 220 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: At my exam, which was after two years, I had 221 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: to do a gulash and a rice pilaf with Langostin's 222 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 2: in a source nin two yer and I did a 223 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: good job because I graduated with honors. And then I 224 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: was like, this is the beginning. I mean, I knew 225 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: it was the beginning. I wanted to be the chef 226 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: that I am today. I wanted to be in a 227 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,479 Speaker 2: restaurant that has a big kitchen with a lot of equipment, 228 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: with a lot of cooks, a lot of waters, a 229 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: lot of a great team, beautiful china, and a great 230 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 2: wine cellar and everything else. And that was my dream. 231 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: So at seventeen years old, I write a letter to 232 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: the eighteen three star Micheline restaurant in France, because I 233 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: was eighteen at the time, and nobody answered nobody. So 234 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: then at one point I go back and I write 235 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: to the two stars and then Maxims sent me a 236 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: letter saying we don't have a spot for you, and 237 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: that's my only letter. And then three months later I 238 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 2: received a letter from Latyo Darjan and at the time 239 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: there were three stars, of course, and they were celebrating 240 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two their four hundred year anniversary. Anyway, 241 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: I ended up at seventeen years old in Lato Darjon 242 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: in Paris. After reading that letter, I call them and 243 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: I said, you know, Americ Repair and I received your letter, 244 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: and when when do you need me? And they said 245 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: we need you tomorrow, And well tomorrow it's going to 246 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: be tough. But three days later I was with my 247 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: suitcase in Paris. 248 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: Where did you stay? 249 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: In a tiny hotel? And then I find finally a place. 250 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: It took a couple of months to find a place. 251 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: It was very very seventeen in a kitchen like that. 252 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what was the culture of the kitchen? 253 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: What was it like? 254 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: Very old fashioned? A lot of abuse, veriable abuse, physical abuse, 255 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: And that was the culture in those kitchens at that time. 256 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: And and also I have to say I was the 257 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: youngest in the kitchen and I was not necessarily the best, 258 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: and they were they were patients, but at the same 259 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: time they were very abusive and and as you probably 260 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: know in France, it was a philosophy behind it. First 261 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: of all, it made no sense to me, but they 262 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: wanted to break you psychologically and rebuilt you as a champion, 263 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: which is ridiculous. I think it was more an excuse 264 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: to let the chef be abusive and I have those 265 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: tantrums and be aggressive. And someone who's angry is it's 266 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: not someone who's It's not a quality to be angry. 267 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: Let's put it this way. So I learned. I learned 268 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: the hard way. 269 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: Do you think you've up? 270 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 2: Ever, No, I never thought of giving up. I was 271 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: obviously at times down and not happy, but my vision 272 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: of becoming the chef that I became was never compromised. 273 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: The ambition kept you, kept you going. 274 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: It was, yes, but the ambition was not about being 275 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 2: number one, being radied, or being The ambition was to 276 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: cook great food and create an amazing experience. And it 277 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 2: has always been my vision all my life. 278 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: Did you know the River Cafe has a shop. It's 279 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbooks 280 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: and then in Napkins Kitchen were chout bags with our signatures, 281 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: glasses from Venice, chocolates from Terurin. You can find us 282 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: right next door to the River Cafe in London or 283 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: online at shop the River Cafe dot co UK. From 284 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Tour de Jean, how long did you stay there? 285 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 2: To Darjent, I didn't stay too long. I stayed about 286 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 2: a year and a half. And then the chef called 287 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 2: me in his office and said I heard that you 288 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: want to move, and you because you want to change, 289 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: And he said I will tell you when you're leaving. 290 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 2: And I said, yes, chef, of course. And a month 291 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: later he said, go to this place, it's called sham 292 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: Ask for the chef. His name is Joel Robischow, and 293 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 2: he's waiting for you. I'm basically like eighteen and a 294 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: half nineteen and I go there. I have no idea 295 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 2: where I'm going. And I met with Joel Robbie Schan 296 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: very sweet man, very kind man, great contacts. And then 297 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: he's telling me that I'm starting in a month from now. 298 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: And was the culture in that kitchen the same? Was 299 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: it abusive? 300 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: And Robbie Shaw was not violent physically or it didn't 301 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 2: didn't want violence in his kitchen? 302 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: Was there violence? Actually physical violence. 303 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 2: Yes, chefs were kicking you in the shoulders. Sometimes it 304 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 2: was some physical battles in the coolers or in a 305 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 2: staircase or things like that. It was definitely, but Robbie 306 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: Sewan it was very different. It didn't want that. He 307 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: was not a screamer, but it was very, very difficult, 308 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 2: and it was a painful experience with him as well, 309 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: because he was so demanding on himself and so demanding 310 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: on the team. He was never happy and every day 311 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 2: was coming and every day he had some negative comments 312 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: every day, but not necessarily articulating what was wrong, just 313 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 2: like a frustration about it. And I don't know if 314 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: you ever heard that, but he was looking at every 315 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 2: plate coming back in the kitchen, and when something was 316 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 2: left in a plate, even a tiny, tiny bite, it 317 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: was a disaster. 318 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: How long did you stay that? 319 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: So I did a year and something and then I 320 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 2: went to do my military duties, so I was of 321 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 2: course sent to the kitchen. Were yes, But on my 322 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: first day in the kitchen was Calamari American. I was like, hey, 323 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: this is cool. And then the Calamaria American was basically 324 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: frozen calamari with a beshamele ketchup and brandy. And then 325 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 2: at night they were doing spaghetti with something and they 326 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: managed to burn the spaghettis in the water. The heat 327 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 2: was coming from underneath. They dumped the spaghetti's the stock 328 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 2: to the bottom of the pot where it was in 329 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: Castel Sarazen, which is in the south of southwest of France, 330 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 2: near to Lose. So anyway, I went to see the 331 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: general and I said to him, I don't mind to 332 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: do my military duties, but please get me out of 333 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 2: this kitchen because I'm going to be depressed. And he 334 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 2: laughed at me and he said, I'm going to send 335 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: you to the commandos. You're going to learn. And I 336 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: was skinny like this, like I was like looking at 337 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: him like, you know, I can't do that, and he 338 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: laughed and he said, you want to be my waiter. 339 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I would love to be your waider. 340 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: He said okay, and I became For the rest of 341 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 2: my stay in the militaries the waiters of the general. 342 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 2: I served the food. I didn't cook. And then on 343 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: my last day I receive a call and I thought 344 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: it was a joke, and they called me and they said, 345 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 2: you have a call. It's Joel Robbie Shan calling you. 346 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 2: I'm like that a joke, it's not possible. And I 347 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 2: look and it's a number I call and it seemed 348 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, thank you for calling me back. 349 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 2: I heard that you've done with the military duties. I 350 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 2: would like for you to come back, and I would 351 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: look for you to be the chef person and Jamin 352 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: and what do you think. At the time, I had 353 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 2: a girlfriend, many things were happening in my life. I 354 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 2: was not really excited to go back to Paris, and 355 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: I said, can I think about it? And he said, yes, 356 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: of course, you have thirty seconds. 357 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: Yes. 358 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: I was like, yes, chef. And I went back to 359 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: Paris then and I did two something years again with 360 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 2: him in the fish in charge of the fish station. 361 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: Well, let's go back to coming here. How did you 362 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: end up in So I went. 363 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: To see Joel Robischan and I said, you know, we'd 364 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 2: like to travel the world and can you help me? 365 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: And he sent me to the water Reghatt Hotel in Washington, 366 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: d C. And I worked with Jean Repalladin, who was 367 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: an extremely talented chef. 368 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: And what was the culture like the culture in the 369 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: kitchen was. 370 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: In Washington, dis very relaxed, small team. Jean Repaaladin was 371 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 2: very creative. I was happy because for me it was 372 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 2: a different experience. I learned very classic food at Lato Darjean. 373 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 2: Then I learned rigor and techniques with Joel Robi Schan 374 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: and then with Jehan Repaada. I had a lot of 375 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: inspiration from him to be creative. 376 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: But I think with that, you know, I think with cooking, 377 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: if you have the breaker first, then you can have 378 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: the kind of maybe relaxed after well to not have 379 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: that background and. 380 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: Now you have to start. 381 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: You have to start. 382 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: You have to start with the basis and the bigger 383 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: and then you can start to be creative. And then 384 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: you have to learn how to manage also a team people. 385 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 2: And that was gilberlo cause in le Bernardin. When I 386 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: joined in nineteen ninety one, I was twenty four years old, 387 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: and he said to me, look, I want someone to 388 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 2: take care of my kitchen, and if you respect the 389 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: philosophy of le Bernardin, which is the fish is the 390 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: star of the plate, then you can do whatever you 391 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: want here and I will support you. And I had 392 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 2: this support until he passed away in nineteen ninety four. 393 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: Then I became partner with my gillocouse his sister, and 394 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: the rest is story history. 395 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: I think it would be interesting to talk about the 396 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: culture of the restaurants that were, you know, existing, the bullying, 397 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: the anger, the tantrums, the physical abuse, you know. I 398 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: always say that I once had a young woman chef 399 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: come to the River Cafe and she was describing her 400 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: experience in another kitchen and she said that the chef 401 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: had stood over her she was getting souflets out of 402 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: the oven, and he said, you know, this frying pan 403 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: is in my hand, and if those tuflets are not perfect, 404 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: it'll be on your head. And I said, you know 405 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: what you should have done is put the soufles back 406 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: in the oven, got up, walked out and gone to 407 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: the police. The police because that kind of threat is 408 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: illegal and it should be illegal, and you cannot do that. 409 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: And I think that the fact that that's this was 410 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: probably twenty years ago. But I think it's very interesting 411 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: how our profession, which was based on a kind of 412 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: terror of teaching three people through fear rather than hope, 413 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: has hope change. I mean in your restaurant, it has 414 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: at my restaurant, my friend's restaurants. You know, in London, 415 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: we don't tolerate that. And also we have an open kitchen, 416 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: so you can't do that. We have an open kitchen 417 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: which does not allow anyone to share. 418 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 2: Of course, well you can always have people who are 419 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 2: vicious and find a way to do it in the back. 420 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 2: But in America I find a kitchens in general very civilized. Here, 421 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: I definitely have I do not promote any misbehavior. I 422 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: have zero tolerance. And if you misbehave and it's not 423 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 2: a big mistake, we give you one more chance, and 424 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: then you're not working with us any longer. You have 425 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 2: to be It doesn't matter if your genius or first 426 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 2: of all, it's no genius is but matter if you 427 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 2: are excellent or not excellent. You have to be a 428 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 2: team player. You have to work with others, and you 429 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: have to be polite and kind and grateful and motivated 430 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 2: and hard working and passionate, and then you belong to 431 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: the team. But we have zero to leerents from his behavior. 432 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: Zero. 433 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 2: It's totally unacceptable. 434 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: Well, I know that food here is so respected and 435 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: so deliciousness. I think you're coming from you, and I 436 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: think that the interesting thing I think is that food 437 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: is in fashion. People always say to me, you know, 438 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: what do you think is a new food trend? Or 439 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: what are people going to be cooking? And what are 440 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: people eating? And it doesn't really interest me very much. 441 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: But the fashion is a food. It's what we're all 442 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: trying to do, to work harder, to do what we 443 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: do better, and we're thinking about sustainability all the time. 444 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: Sustainability is very important. I mean, I don't care about 445 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 2: trends at all. The cooking at Lebernarda is it's based 446 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: on personal experiences. I travel quite a bit in my 447 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: life in many I mean basically all the continents, and 448 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: depending where I go, I come back and I have 449 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 2: a lot of ideas and I discover new flavor, new techniques, 450 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 2: new ingredients, and then we integrate it into the style 451 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: of Le Bernardin And I work very closely with the 452 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: Soo chefs as well. They also travel during the vacation 453 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 2: and they go to many places and it's a collaboration 454 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: in between us inspired by what we love and what 455 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: we see, but we don't think about trends at all. 456 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: Did you travel lot to Asia? Did you Japan? Of Japan? 457 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 2: Japanese for me was a revelation when I went there. 458 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 2: Not why in every aspect of the culture of Japan, 459 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 2: the search for perfection knowing that you will never achieve 460 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 2: perfection that is not motivated by business, which means money. 461 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: It's very refreshing for a restaurrator from New York that 462 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 2: they have respect for the ingredients. That is incredible. And 463 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: in the nineties I was in Peru before it became fashionable. 464 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: It was again very influential on us for quite some 465 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 2: time to understand the culture of the savic and the marine, 466 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: edit fish and so on. 467 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: You have one restaurant, so. 468 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: We have Le Bernardin and then we have another restaurant 469 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 2: in the Cannan Islands called Blue Bio rec Repair, and 470 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: we work with an hotel called the Red Carleton, which 471 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 2: is famous. Yeah, chain of hotels. The team comes here 472 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 2: gets trained by us, or we go there and train them. 473 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 2: I go there twice a year and the rest of 474 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 2: the time I have at Lebanadere. 475 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: Do you find it challenging? Fish wise? 476 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: In cam An Island, we use local fish mostly what 477 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: is it? Grouper, snapper, spiny lobsters, shream, mai mahi wahu. 478 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: I mean it's a lot of species. 479 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: That's a local Oh yeah, it's. 480 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: Like from the local fishermen. Yes. 481 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 3: If you like listening to Ruthy's Table for would you 482 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 3: please make sure to rate and review the podcast on 483 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, o, wherever you get 484 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 3: your podcasts. 485 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: Thank you. You were saying that people now are eating out. 486 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: You can't get a reservation in a restaurant in New York. 487 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: Maybe it's post pandemic, but I do think restaurants have 488 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: shown us how important restaurants are to culture, to a city, 489 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: to people. I once had to go to my granddaughter's 490 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: school and I said, why do we go to restaurants? 491 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: You know, we go to restaurants. Why do we go 492 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: When child raised their hand and said, we go to 493 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: restaurants for a birthday, we go to a restaurant. When 494 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: my grandparents come to town, we go to restaurants. When 495 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: my granddaughter raised her we go to restaurants when there's 496 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: nothing at the fridge. And I thought that was It 497 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: is interesting why people go to restaurants and why they 498 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: are important to us. Why do you think they are? 499 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 2: Well, New York is a big city, like London, it's 500 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: a lot of people visiting from all over the world. 501 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 2: It's a lot of New Yorkers who are going out, 502 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: and we cater to many people who seek a different experience. 503 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: I think our mission is to deliver the experience the 504 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 2: clients is seeking without necessarily asking, but just understanding what's happening. 505 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: And it's easy to understand what the clients want. If 506 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 2: you see a bunch of businessmen and they're very intense 507 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 2: and they're sharing paper at the table, you know they 508 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 2: are in business. If you see a couple and they 509 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: all achiev and kissing, and you know, it's like it's 510 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: not the same experience as the businessman. And then if 511 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 2: you see someone taking pictures of the food, or if 512 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 2: I go to the dining room looking at me, following me, 513 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 2: and you know it's someone very interested by our industry 514 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 2: and those experience. We have to basically adapt to the 515 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 2: client and have flexibility and make sure that when they 516 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: leave they're very happy, they have a smile in their face. 517 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: Do you stand on the past? Do you see every 518 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: plate that goes out? 519 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 2: I do, and not only I stay on the past, 520 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 2: but I also work in the kitchen and I taste 521 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: a lot that one on me but we have testing 522 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 2: spoons made of corn starch that you can use. The 523 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: very inexpensive and of course it's recyclable. It's not like plastic, 524 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 2: and you can taste and throw the spoon if you wish, 525 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 2: because we don't want to double deep obviously, and I 526 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: don't want the cooks also to carry. 527 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: I hate that when I put that in the back. 528 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 2: Disgusting, and to put it in the pot with water, 529 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 2: it's like no. So we have those those testing spoons, 530 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: and I taste a lot of the thing. I have 531 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 2: only one meal a day and the rest is testing. 532 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: You test before before we before service and during services. 533 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, I find, you know, I was thinking 534 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: if I could. It's how you give the feedback. I 535 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: don't know about very much smaller restaurant. When I go 536 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: to eat there and I have something that I don't 537 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: I think is up to what it should be. It's 538 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: always for me it's a conundrum because do you tell 539 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: them you know then and there? Do you go and say, 540 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, they're so expected, our chefs, you know, they 541 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: want to know what I thought, Did I enjoy it? 542 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: And if I say, well, actually, you know, the spinach 543 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: had too much salt or the sea bears was grilled 544 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: too long. Not the greatest thing to do at the 545 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: end of the evening. If I do it in the 546 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: morning and I go and I say, that was a 547 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: great meal. Then I come in in the morning and 548 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: I say, actually, you know what, what I had last night, 549 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: that's not a good time. It's how you how you 550 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: can feedback. The best thing is when you're working that 551 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm there, and so at the moment when you taste it, 552 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: you say, actually, no, no, no, we're not doing this. 553 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: So we're not doing that. How are you? Because they 554 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: care so much our chefs, don't they They. 555 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 2: Nobody is happy to do about job now. I don't 556 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 2: think so. But what we do first of all, when 557 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 2: we arrived, when I say, weez the two chefs and 558 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 2: the shifts that they have, and then that they are 559 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 2: controlling the kitchen. When we arrived, it's always before lunch, 560 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,239 Speaker 2: at least half hour before for the lunch, and we 561 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 2: taeste all the preparations of the kitchen, all the mission, 562 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 2: plus all the sauce. We have about four different, fourly 563 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 2: different sauce, and we test and we commend before we 564 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 2: test the sauce, and we test everything in the kitchen. 565 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: We caliber our palette. So we buy some industrial Swiss 566 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 2: cheese that is not really good, but it's perfect in seasoning. 567 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 2: It's neither to salty, neither to blend. 568 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: It's like very neutral neutralizes you. 569 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 2: So no, when you test it, sometimes you may find 570 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: it salty, which means your taest birds are very sensitive 571 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 2: to salt. Sometimes you may find it very bland, and 572 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 2: you know your your test birds are dull. So therefore 573 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: you know more or less where you stand. And then 574 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: we test the sauce and we give it made it 575 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 2: feedback to the socier, and when we test the ves 576 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: balls and everything else, we give immediate feedbacks to them. 577 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 2: I'm very direct. Whatever is right is right, whatever is 578 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: wrong is wrong. But I'm very articulating my criticism. If 579 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 2: I have to, I explain to them why I believe 580 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 2: it's not it's not right. What does What happened during 581 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 2: the process. Maybe the source was cooked too long and 582 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: then we lost the vibrancy that we're supposed to see 583 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: in that source. And so I'm very detail oriented in 584 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 2: my positive or negative criticism. 585 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: We have to be, because otherwise we're selling out food 586 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: that is not or we cannot do that, I said 587 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: to them the other day. You know, my obligation is 588 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: to you to give you a good working environment, to 589 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 1: give you a beautiful kitchen, to give you a view, 590 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: to give you the equipment that is working. But also 591 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: our obligation is to the person who's eating the food, 592 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: who's coming in tonight. It may have saved up to 593 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: be able to come here. Option we're celebrating a birthday, 594 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: we're just we're just coming for me and we want 595 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: to express what we do. How often do you change 596 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: the menu. 597 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 2: When we have a good idea, Well, you know, of 598 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 2: course it's it's very inspired by the season. But it's 599 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 2: true that when we we always challenge ourselves to renew 600 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 2: our menu as much as we can, and we print 601 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 2: the menu in house, so it gives us a lot 602 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 2: of freedom to say, okay, today we change it. We 603 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 2: have we have two good ideas, we're going to change 604 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 2: the menu and and we'll see what happens in a 605 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 2: couple of weeks. We never have specials, and we always 606 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 2: make sure that when we create new dishes, we push 607 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 2: the envelope and take time before we decide it goes 608 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 2: on the menu, because sometimes the first impression is that 609 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 2: is that, oh, yeah, that's good, and then you tell 610 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 2: actually something was missing and it's work that goes into 611 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 2: the process and it takes time. 612 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: And with fish, because you're such a fish based restaurant, 613 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: do you you know, do they call up and say, 614 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: we have no turbot today, we have no sea bass, 615 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: or the sea bass isn't good enough to sell you, 616 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: or is it pretty dependable? 617 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 2: No, when the weather is rough, I mean, especially in 618 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 2: the north East coast of America is where we buy 619 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 2: our fish. Mostly, like eighty percent of the seafood that 620 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 2: we serve is local. When I say local is not 621 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 2: New York City. It's main from Carolinas to Canada, or 622 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: even like Florida to Canada. But when the weather is 623 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 2: very rough, we have to change. We cannot buy something 624 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 2: that is not on a market or some old fish. 625 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: And if there's a day when you don't have what 626 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: you want or you're feeling that you might need some 627 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: comfort and you look for the food. But what would 628 00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: you turn to in terms of a food that might 629 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: be view comfort. 630 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: Well, if I really want comfort, I do it on 631 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 2: the weekend, and I cook the food for yourself. I 632 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 2: cook for the family and myself. I like to share. 633 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 2: I don't you know. I will never see myself having 634 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 2: a bottle of wine or a glass of wine and 635 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 2: then eating and not not being surrounded by friends and family. 636 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,240 Speaker 2: And I do that on the weekend because the weekend 637 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 2: for me, the weekends have sacred and since I'm the 638 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: only guy with white hair in the kitchen, I'm allowed 639 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 2: to take my Salurdays and Sundays and be with the family. 640 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 2: And therefore I take my weekends. I stay in New 641 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 2: York or I have a country house, but we go 642 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 2: out one night to be pampered and to have an experience, 643 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 2: and then the second day I'm cooking and I have 644 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 2: so much fun. You know. It's like a way to 645 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 2: completely disconnect from the world, from the reality that we 646 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 2: perceive the round us. And I'm not being a blast. 647 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you are. Thank you so much. 648 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 2: Thank you. 649 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: Lots of love dots all love to you too. Thank you, 650 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership 651 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: with Montclair. 652 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 4: Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atamei Studios for iHeartRadio. 653 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 4: It's hosted by Ruthie Rogers and it's produced by William Lensky. 654 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 4: This episode was edited by Julia Johnson and mixed by 655 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 4: Nigel Appleton. Our executive producers are Fai Stewart and Zad Rogers. 656 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 4: Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator 657 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 4: is Bella Selini. Thank you to everyone at the of 658 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 4: A Cafe for your help in making this episode. 659 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 3: Mmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 660 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:13,439 Speaker 1: Hmm