Speaker 1: Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast and back where
Speaker 1: I Belong I'm back with doctor Hillary. Yes, there's deep
Speaker 1: wounds about the public perception, the constant public perception. Like
Speaker 1: the wounds are so deep it's like scar tissue that's
Speaker 1: built up so far, I don't even know how to
Speaker 1: unravel it to start anew.
Speaker 2: Is a very particular plight a celebrities relationship with the
Speaker 2: public perception, and it's difficult to talk about because it
Speaker 2: sort of plays into the very thing we're talking about,
Speaker 2: which is holding up your particular role in society, which
Speaker 2: is unique and embodied by just a small percentage of people.
Speaker 2: But no one really understands unless you're in it, what
Speaker 2: it's like to live your life, to have those kind
Speaker 2: of projections and opinions and perceptions put on you. It
Speaker 2: can be quite traumatic in its persistent. It's an important
Speaker 2: thing to continue to unwind, and it's much more complex
Speaker 2: than this conversation. But for the purposes of this conversation,
Speaker 2: I just want to reflect back to you that that
Speaker 2: is your truth, and that is the dilemma your family
Speaker 2: is facing. So by definition, all of those components of
Speaker 2: your family dynamic are going to be less than ideal
Speaker 2: or quote subpar, because you're having to exist in a
Speaker 2: real life scenario where you're trying to keep your family
Speaker 2: safe and educated and living well enough, right, and so
Speaker 2: it's a portion of it that you have to continue
Speaker 2: to work to accept. It's going to be imperfect because
Speaker 2: of your situation. And this is true for most people.
Speaker 1: We've all talked as a family, mom works so we
Speaker 1: can live, and that's the reality. And I don't know
Speaker 1: how to break it down any simpler. Maybe that's too
Speaker 1: harsh to say to them.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I have many things to say about this,
Speaker 2: and you're talking about such a ubiquitous plight for many
Speaker 2: women that what is ideal in terms of attention and
Speaker 2: roles and responsibilities for children is not able to be
Speaker 2: cultivated because of the reality of needing to provide resources.
Speaker 3: Period.
Speaker 2: It doesn't really matter if the public understands or not.
Speaker 2: That's your reality. The way that I like to combat
Speaker 2: the kind of guilt that you're talking out about and
Speaker 2: the potential side effects of the roles that your children
Speaker 2: and body or sixteen year old in particular, or the
Speaker 2: things that your kids might feel or miss out on
Speaker 2: because of the thing I talked to you about before,
Speaker 2: which is narrating. It sounds like you do do that
Speaker 2: to a a certain extent, but you can be more
Speaker 2: pointed in this regard. Do you sit down with them.
Speaker 2: You might sit down with them as a group. I
Speaker 2: would certainly sit down with your sixteen year old separately
Speaker 2: and sort of saying like, I just want to think
Speaker 2: out loud with you about this truth that we have
Speaker 2: going on in this family. Right You're in this role
Speaker 2: of taking care of family needs and the kiddos in
Speaker 2: a way that like most kids aren't, and you're amazing
Speaker 2: at it, and you're like a beautiful machine, you know,
Speaker 2: And I'm.
Speaker 3: So proud of you.
Speaker 2: And also it's hard and it's something I would rather
Speaker 2: not have you do. And whether you notice that feeling
Speaker 2: inside or not, I do, and I can't fix it.
Speaker 2: I can't change it, but I just want to let
Speaker 2: you know I see it, and if there are any
Speaker 2: moments I can lessen the load, I will do so.
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, like I see you, I acknowledge
Speaker 2: this is hard, and you know, I'm so sorry for
Speaker 2: the moments when it's overwhelmed. I'm so sorry when it's
Speaker 2: overwhelming I'm so sorry for the moments when you're doing
Speaker 2: something that like a kiddo shouldn't have to do, and
Speaker 2: I just want to sit with you in that truth.
Speaker 2: It's really important for our kids to have us narrate
Speaker 2: the reality when something's hard. It's hard, and if we
Speaker 2: can't change it, we can't change it. Paradoxically, saying it
Speaker 2: aloud is very containing. So while of course we can't
Speaker 2: quote fix the fact that your daughter has to take
Speaker 2: on these roles at the moment, what you can do
Speaker 2: is narrate it for her and validate it and stand
Speaker 2: in that truth with her. It will make such a
Speaker 2: big difference in her story, her conceptualization of it, in
Speaker 2: a year, in five years, and ten years, and my
Speaker 2: mom understood the impact on me. It didn't change maybe
Speaker 2: what I did or didn't have to do or get
Speaker 2: to do, but having somebody witness to your truth is everything.
Speaker 1: I do feel it's important to talk to her about that,
Speaker 1: especially right now, because I know her life does look
Speaker 1: very different than her friend's lives, and yeah, I'll try
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that more. And I've also seen because of
Speaker 1: and this has really happened in the last three months
Speaker 1: of working constantly that the other four, predominantly both females
Speaker 1: that would be my six year old and my thirteen
Speaker 1: year old, have really hardcore taken on the parental rule
Speaker 1: with the seven year old, and I feel like it's
Speaker 1: confusing to him and not backfiring. But my husband was,
Speaker 1: you know, we'd always you know, we talk in terms
Speaker 1: of two parent figures and there's a bad cop and
Speaker 1: a good cop.
Speaker 3: He was definitely more strict. I was more lenient.
Speaker 1: He was you know, by the book and get things done,
Speaker 1: more organized, process, stuff, procedural, all of that. I was
Speaker 1: the loving, emotional let's make stuff, Let's do this, like,
Speaker 1: let's go, let's do you know, free spirit, kind of love,
Speaker 1: love love, kind to a fault.
Speaker 3: Probably should have put.
Speaker 1: More boundaries in place, and then boom, when your houses
Speaker 1: are separating, you go through a divorce, it's something you
Speaker 1: kind of don't think about when that partner that did
Speaker 1: set the boundaries and was the voice of no is
Speaker 1: suddenly eliminated from the house. So that is on a
Speaker 1: whole new level. I had to suddenly take on both
Speaker 1: roles good cop, bad cop. You know, I became the
Speaker 1: kind enforcer. It was clashing on every level of my DNA.
Speaker 1: So for the first year, I did hear a lot
Speaker 1: of you sound like dad, and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1: Not that I don't like Dean or love him, but
Speaker 1: it was like I knew what they meant. You know,
Speaker 1: you're being so strict, and you know, it was a
Speaker 1: hard thing to hear, and I'd be like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I have to step up, and i'd tell him now.
Speaker 1: You know, back then I would think your ring all
Speaker 1: too hard on them. But I look back now and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, you're doing a really great job
Speaker 1: in that respect because I wasn't setting boundaries, was too lenient.
Speaker 1: I was too the guilt mom that was always working.
Speaker 1: So I you know, it's just all about love fun.
Speaker 1: Oh it's okay if you don't do this or clean
Speaker 1: up or you know, take out the dogs. Like now,
Speaker 1: when I'm doing it all alone, I realize, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: they got to step up because I can't manage a
Speaker 1: life of six and work at.
Speaker 3: The same time alone. You have to help me, guys.
Speaker 1: I was talking about the older kids being parental figures
Speaker 1: to the seven year old. But I do hear this
Speaker 1: a lot lately. What tone are you speaking to me,
Speaker 1: and who do you think you're talking to? They don't
Speaker 1: say it loud or mean, but very stern. Parent, that's
Speaker 1: not okay. You need to go sit in a time out.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, whoa, guys, because then he comes to
Speaker 1: me and I'll be in another room working and I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: what happened? What happened? So I'm hearing his story. He's crying,
Speaker 1: and I have said to them, you know, guys, it
Speaker 1: might be confusing for him. Well, he's acting out more.
Speaker 1: And I said, because he's confused. Perhaps when I was
Speaker 1: gone for three weeks, or when I'm on set, or
Speaker 1: when I'm working outside of the home, that makes sense
Speaker 1: to him. But when I am here, he's confused because
Speaker 1: he has four siblings that are acting like a parent.
Speaker 1: But then he has one parent that perhaps is just going, going, going,
Speaker 1: that's not setting the boundaries.
Speaker 3: So I'm sure he's confused.
Speaker 2: I think it's really important that you recast yourself as
Speaker 2: the arbitrator of what happens with your little one. And
Speaker 2: I would again, I'm so big on narrating. I'm say
Speaker 2: it out loud. I identified something in our family that's
Speaker 2: not working. Oops, we're going to shift it like, sorry, guys,
Speaker 2: sometimes takes me a minute to figure out what's right
Speaker 2: for us, and I think I got it. So I
Speaker 2: am the CEO of what happens with all of you kits,
Speaker 2: including the little one, and guys, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for taking care of him, for watching him, for playing
Speaker 2: with him, for feeding him, for getting to bed on time.
Speaker 2: You guys are amazing, And I understand why you might
Speaker 2: have moved towards taking on this role of sort of
Speaker 2: disciplinarian or you know, helping him regular whatever the thing is.
Speaker 2: But I am. I am the CEO of that part
Speaker 2: of this family. And so if something happens with him,
Speaker 2: like come find me, like tell me what's going on,
Speaker 2: and like happy to hear your opinion, happy to hear
Speaker 2: your perspective. But I am the decider. If he goes
Speaker 2: into time out, I am the decider, if he has
Speaker 2: to go into his room. I am the decider if
Speaker 2: his tone is appropriate or not. And while your older
Speaker 2: ones will not thank you for this in the moment,
Speaker 2: in fact, they may even protest, in the long run,
Speaker 2: they will thank you for it. They don't want the role,
Speaker 2: they don't want the responsibility. It feels over time uncontaining
Speaker 2: rather than you know, sort of autonomy producing right what
Speaker 2: most kids crave. It's like some version of like whatever
Speaker 2: they say goes, and whoever the they is, whether it's
Speaker 2: like you or you and your partner, whoever it is,
Speaker 2: that's containing and predictive and regulating. So I would like
Speaker 2: make an announcement that this is going to shift and
Speaker 2: I get it, like it might take a moment for
Speaker 2: everyone to remember what their roles are, but this is
Speaker 2: what we're headed to. And I would empower your little one,
Speaker 2: like not in a shaming way with your older ones,
Speaker 2: but like, hey, if this is like going on, just
Speaker 2: just come let me know, because we're in the middle
Speaker 2: of shiftingness. We're in the middle of changing it back
Speaker 2: and look toward. Just because you were not there at times,
Speaker 2: says many many parents across the country, doesn't mean you
Speaker 2: have to or should relinquish any part of that role.
Speaker 2: You still have to embody it fully and they want
Speaker 2: you to. They're not going to ask you for it,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to thank you for it, but they
Speaker 2: want you to. It is the opposite of regulating and
Speaker 2: orienting and grounding. When we abandon that role or do
Speaker 2: it intermittently. Nobody enforces boundaries regularly and properly all the time.
Speaker 2: We get exhausted and overwhelmed and like say, just do it.
Speaker 2: So it My gauge is always like more often than not,
Speaker 2: you know, more often than not is what we're going for.
Speaker 2: Like life is imperfect and messy, as I was saying before,
Speaker 2: But that second piece you're talking about so critical, which
Speaker 2: is really difficult embodying that role of being the like
Speaker 2: boundary setter and the enforcer. One of my favorite parenting
Speaker 2: hacks is like you can always go back. So it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the next day, your thirteen year old,
Speaker 2: and you're like, you asked to stay up late. I
Speaker 2: said yes, and you went to bed two hours past
Speaker 2: your bedtime. You know what I thought about it, that's
Speaker 2: on me. The answer should have been no. You know,
Speaker 2: I felt that I was gone. I felt that I
Speaker 2: didn't see you all day, and I still feel like, really, you're.
Speaker 3: Missing time with you.
Speaker 2: But you know what, it's my job to make sure
Speaker 2: you're safe and you're well rested and ready for school,
Speaker 2: and like next time it's going to be a now off.
Speaker 2: You know, I love you so that even when you
Speaker 2: mess it up, you can say it out loud and
Speaker 2: sort of hold yourself accountable in sort of a kind way.
Speaker 1: I have said it to the thirteen year old and
Speaker 1: the six year old, and unfortunately the answer, and it's
Speaker 1: not wrong in their part, is but he needs boundaries
Speaker 1: and you don't do it, you don't say no to him. Yep,
Speaker 1: they're not wrong.
Speaker 2: So two things I would say to them fair I
Speaker 2: hear you acknowledged, validated, and painful for all three of us.
Speaker 2: You know, just sit in that truth. I am in
Speaker 2: the middle of working on it. It is accurate having
Speaker 2: said that, as I'm in the middle of working on it.
Speaker 2: This here is an example of it. It's a boundary
Speaker 2: and my job to decide what happens when when the
Speaker 2: little one isn't doing what he's supposed to do. So
Speaker 2: it's a boundary that I'm setting right now. I know
Speaker 2: it's hard to get used to, and I know you
Speaker 2: still may see me fall short, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that changes whose role is what? And so it might
Speaker 2: be tricky to kind of stand by and watch me,
Speaker 2: But that's exactly what I'm going to ask you to do.
Speaker 2: Please feel free to come and tell me if you
Speaker 2: think there's something going on, I absolutely, Like you know,
Speaker 2: we're a boardroom. I'm the chair, like you be a
Speaker 2: board member. Come tell me if there's something going on
Speaker 2: that I didn't see, Come tell me there's something going
Speaker 2: on that like an issue that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, your voice will be heard.
Speaker 2: That's a way to deal with that painful And it
Speaker 2: sounds like somewhat real feedback is I'm in the middle
Speaker 2: of setting a boundary now, so I'm asking you to
Speaker 2: listen to it and fair. You're saying a truth and
Speaker 2: I want your input. But I want to be the leader,
Speaker 2: and I may fall short at times and you may
Speaker 2: see it, you may point it out, and that's part
Speaker 2: of being human, but that is still the goal I
Speaker 2: have in mind. Again, that will feel containing. They do
Speaker 2: not want to maintain the narrative that, oh my mom
Speaker 2: can't do this, so I have to. That is not
Speaker 2: fun for them and it's not true either. And you
Speaker 2: know you working on setting boundaries, it sounds like it's
Speaker 2: tied into this sense of guilt and self doubt. I
Speaker 2: think a motivating element, even like a game changer, like
Speaker 2: a breakthrough, is the very real idea and there's lots
Speaker 2: of research in this regard that like the absence of
Speaker 2: boundaries creates a decent amount of chaos for our kiddos.
Speaker 2: You know, they really end up feeling a version of
Speaker 2: dysregulation and unpredictability that you may not see in the moment, right,
Speaker 2: you know, set a boundary, like you let them stay
Speaker 2: up light.
Speaker 3: It's not like they're out.
Speaker 2: Of control and destabilized and fall apart. But over time
Speaker 2: you may see them having trouble with a commitment or
Speaker 2: attention or staying in things, or being a self starter,
Speaker 2: or being autonomous or carving out directions for themselves on
Speaker 2: like a micro a macro level, and just with emotional
Speaker 2: as I said regulation that boundaries and structure and expectations
Speaker 2: help kids feel safe. So as you consider like your
Speaker 2: own feeling state, your guilt trying, and like your visual
Speaker 2: hierarchy of needs, like at the top of that over
Speaker 2: your guilt is their need for concrete structure in order
Speaker 2: to feel emotionally safe, I aim to get there. What
Speaker 2: you're saying is it's actually such a good point to
Speaker 2: pause up for a minute, which is that when it
Speaker 2: feels overwhelming, a lot of us just press like the
Speaker 2: eject button. It's like, I don't have to do here,
Speaker 2: and I'm just going to keep doing what I normally
Speaker 2: do because I am.
Speaker 3: Parallel to hustle and work and provide that's all, and
Speaker 3: deal with anything else. Hate the bills. You know. It's
Speaker 3: like everything you're saying feels so accurate.
Speaker 1: And I'm the type that I'm a great listener and
Speaker 1: I understand things, and I always say I'm an actress.
Speaker 3: I take direction.
Speaker 1: Well, so when I hear and I understand, I want
Speaker 1: to take effect. But then I'm like, the holiday season
Speaker 1: is December, you know, holidays coming up, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I can't start now twenty twenty five, you know, January,
Speaker 1: because there's also that guilt of like Christmas and the
Speaker 1: expectations and just making My seven year old said, Mom,
Speaker 1: do you think this Christmas you can buy me a gift?
Speaker 1: Well I can't say to him, well, all the gifts
Speaker 1: you got from Santa I.
Speaker 3: Bought, you know.
Speaker 1: So I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I
Speaker 1: think one of the things I put was from me.
Speaker 1: And then he got a present from his dad. But
Speaker 1: also it was like he's not understanding because I think
Speaker 1: in the past there's been over abundance of you know,
Speaker 1: because of guilt and whatever I have, I work hard,
Speaker 1: but whatever I have, I give to them and anyone
Speaker 1: around me, Like, that's just who I am. I feel
Speaker 1: like when you have it, share it. I don't believe
Speaker 1: in holding onto it, which is why I have financial struggles.
Speaker 3: So I have to readjust that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so he thought I didn't get him a
Speaker 1: gift and I was like, oh, and I said, yes,
Speaker 1: I promise, and it's it's just trying. And I know
Speaker 1: you can relate, and every mom and dad out there
Speaker 1: can relate. You know, the comparison with the friend circle,
Speaker 1: it's a tough one. And you know, growing up for me,
Speaker 1: my parents were super wealthy. So it's something new I'm
Speaker 1: learning when you know my kids saying, oh, all my
Speaker 1: friends either have this or are getting it, and I
Speaker 1: can't puta for them, but I want to because I
Speaker 1: want him to fit in. And I know this is
Speaker 1: something you know, take the tory spelling out of it.
Speaker 1: This is universal with parents everywhere. I'm sure you want
Speaker 1: your kid to feel accepted.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, it's like ubiquitous and primitive, right,
Speaker 2: you know, when your kiddos say a version of that,
Speaker 2: responding with something like, I think you're trying to ask me,
Speaker 2: like where we are and what's possible in our family.
Speaker 2: I think that's what you're trying to ask me. You know,
Speaker 2: such a good question. I mean you're also asking me
Speaker 2: if I'm going to get you a gift, and the
Speaker 2: answers yes, I'm going to get you one gift, I'm
Speaker 2: going to get you three gifts. Whatever the answer is, Like,
Speaker 2: whatever the real answer is, I would provide it. But
Speaker 2: I think you're trying to ask me where we are
Speaker 2: and what's possible. And it's a good question because things
Speaker 2: are tricky right now, and you notice that, so part
Speaker 2: of you for asking this question. And the answer is
Speaker 2: you know, I can't get you the same amount of
Speaker 2: stuff that I used to be able to get you,
Speaker 2: or I can't get you the same amount of stuff
Speaker 2: that your friends are getting this year, so hard. I
Speaker 2: know that feels sad. I know that feels bad. You know,
Speaker 2: it's hard to look at other people and see what
Speaker 2: they have and see we don't have the same thing.
Speaker 2: Those are like real feelings and you're trying to figure
Speaker 2: out what it's going to feel like this year. So
Speaker 2: I'm trying to help you give you a sets of
Speaker 2: about what it's going to feel like this year, and
Speaker 2: it seems like it might not be exactly what you want,
Speaker 2: and that's just really hard, you know. And I would
Speaker 2: just sit in that conversation with him or any of
Speaker 2: your kids that bring that up. Later you can say
Speaker 2: something like, gosh, I was thinking about our conversation. I
Speaker 2: have some other ideas, and it's during this time that
Speaker 2: you can offer some other concepts about life that you
Speaker 2: might want to put forth, like how important and invaluable
Speaker 2: connection is, and how important it is to have gratitude
Speaker 2: for what you do have, and how important it is
Speaker 2: to value connection over stuff. Right, I don't want listeners
Speaker 2: to think that it's only a discussion about stuff and
Speaker 2: the only thing that matters. But we want to get
Speaker 2: in their reality. That's a real thing. Your kid is
Speaker 2: two things are happening. They're both trying to literally understand
Speaker 2: what am I getting, relatives friends are getting, and also
Speaker 2: what is happening in our family and post divorce and
Speaker 2: a shift in financial situation that's disorienting. He wants to
Speaker 2: be oriented, and so even if the news is not
Speaker 2: what he wants to hear it's going to ultimately be grounding.
Speaker 2: And even if you miss it the first time, like
Speaker 2: you're just sort of like, yeah, one gift and you
Speaker 2: miss the opportunity to you can always go back, you know,
Speaker 2: I was thinking about it. You're asking. I think something
Speaker 2: else too, And it gives you an opportunity to sort
Speaker 2: of get in there because there's ongoing trauma and confusion
Speaker 2: and considerations for kids not only who have a kind
Speaker 2: of change in financial situation, but for kids who are
Speaker 2: going through separation and divorce. Every season of kids' lives,
Speaker 2: it hits them differently, and so you have five who
Speaker 2: are going to have this hit them differently in different ways,
Speaker 2: in different seasons. So staying in that conversation with them.
Speaker 1: Is really important, definitely, And I think on my part,
Speaker 1: at least, the want of kids always just wanting their
Speaker 1: parents together, I think kept me from ultimately making well
Speaker 1: was outwardly a better decision for them and what they
Speaker 1: saw between two partners. It kept me for a long
Speaker 1: time is because in my conditioned brain, of course, you know,
Speaker 1: my parents were married over twenty five years up until
Speaker 1: my dad passed, you know, and I saw.
Speaker 3: A family always together, and so it was different.
Speaker 1: And I always thought, you know, as bad as things
Speaker 1: might be between my partner and myself, it's better to
Speaker 1: have their dad in the house than in a different residence,
Speaker 1: and that I think that kept me in the relationship
Speaker 1: far too long, and it, ultimately, I feel did a
Speaker 1: disservice to my kids, you know. Granted, you know, I
Speaker 1: think both he and I were in a place where
Speaker 1: we might have separated and divorced before Bo was born,
Speaker 1: but we worked on our relationships stayed together, and I'll
Speaker 1: never regret not leaving then. I'm sure he wouldn't either,
Speaker 1: because we wouldn't have had Bo. And Bo is our
Speaker 1: blessing and our love and our heart and souls. So
Speaker 1: I'm grateful. But you know, after Bo was born and
Speaker 1: I was twenty seventeen, things didn't get better between us,
Speaker 1: and and granted, there's still times that I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, it would be so nice to have that
Speaker 1: extra set of hands in the house. It would be
Speaker 1: so nice for the kids to be like, Okay, mom's there,
Speaker 1: and I see dads in the other room. And to
Speaker 1: be honest, in the last years of our relationship, we
Speaker 1: did things as a family for the kids, and we,
Speaker 1: you know, would be in the same room, but you know,
Speaker 1: I was in my bedroom. He slept in a different bedroom.
Speaker 1: My husband is sober now over a year now, so
Speaker 1: we're very proud of him.
Speaker 3: But before that, it.
Speaker 1: Was it was rough for them to see and it
Speaker 1: was very disjointing. And I feel like I didn't separate
Speaker 1: the families in household terms, only sooner, But of course
Speaker 1: we can't go back, so we're dealing with it now.
Speaker 1: But it's hard not to have their in the house.
Speaker 2: Many many women stay longer than they quote should or
Speaker 2: stay period because of these truths, and you picked up
Speaker 2: a harder path. Ultimately. One of the things I like
Speaker 2: to talk about with clients that are going through divorce
Speaker 2: is thinking about the conceptualization example of love that you
Speaker 2: are holding up for your kids is really important. When
Speaker 2: there's an absence of fill in the blank, an absence
Speaker 2: of connection, playfulness, romanticism, communication, whatever the things that were
Speaker 2: absent in your relationship with your ex husband. We're teaching
Speaker 2: them something about what relationships are and what love is,
Speaker 2: and it matters and it has an imprint and making
Speaker 2: a decision to disentangle that and explain to the kids
Speaker 2: in age appropriate way. We're better off as your parents
Speaker 2: rather than as a married couple. Allows for a shift
Speaker 2: in that narrative, and we have a responsibility about the
Speaker 2: story we share with our kids model for our kids
Speaker 2: about love. And it's one of I think the orienting
Speaker 2: factors to hang on to when you're in the midst
Speaker 2: of co creating the separation of a family, because it's
Speaker 2: you know, it's like an assault on the heart, co
Speaker 2: creating that right, it's unthinkable and in the doing of it,
Speaker 2: it's incredibly painful. But that is one of the grounding forces,
Speaker 2: I think, and it sounds like one of the things
Speaker 2: that led you out, and you know, not doing it
Speaker 2: sooner is all part of that analysis and calculation of
Speaker 2: like where it's the tipping point and you're in the
Speaker 2: midst of two not such great decisions. There's just there's
Speaker 2: no winning path there in terms of the kids.
Speaker 1: I know I unloided a lot on you today and
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I didn't anticipate even opening up this much.
Speaker 1: I've really related to you and connect it with you,
Speaker 1: so thank you.
Speaker 3: Would you come back and do this with me again?
Speaker 3: Will you have me? Or am I too? Much.
Speaker 2: I will absolutely come back, and I loved our conversation too.
Speaker 1: Here's my takeaway, Doctor Hillary, I deserve to have you
Speaker 1: in my life.