1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: I am six forty. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 2: You're listening to the John and Ken Show on demand 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app and we're on the radio from 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: one to till four, and after four o'clock it becomes 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: the John and can Ontobad podcast. And you could hear 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 2: anything that you missed today. 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and what's the word? Well, coming up, we have 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 3: a keyword to be revealed. Your chance at one thousand 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 3: dollars at two twenty here on the John and Ken Show. Well, 10 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 3: we talked about a story yesterday that there is a 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 3: trial out there to try to get people off of 12 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 3: drugs by offering them gift cards. They actually have a 13 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 3: name called contingency management for this. We've also talked in 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 3: the past about the term harm reduction. As the drugs 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 3: get bigger and more dangerous, the focus here in California 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: among the politicians is to deal with it with a 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 3: policy that's called harm reduction. Basically, it means you stand 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: by with narcan. In some cases, you actually provide clean 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 3: needles or other things they need to take their drugs. 20 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 3: You just want to make sure that they don't die. 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 3: You're trying to manage the problem and reduce the chance 22 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 3: of them harming themselves. Of course Prop forty seven famously 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: got rid of many felony charges for drug use. So 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: that was the beginnings of this in twenty fourteen. But 25 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 3: now we've gotten to the point with fentanyl taking over 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: a lot of the drug use, either knowingly or unknowingly 27 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 3: among drug users. We're in a much tougher situation now 28 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 3: with the overdose tests. We're gonna talk with Sam kenona Is. 29 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: He's a writer, author, and he's written articles and books 30 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 3: on this whole drug problem, with all the drugs that 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: come over the border that are shipped here, and then 32 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: what's happening in the streets and the government response, and 33 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: it's overwhelming. 34 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: Clearly. 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: Now a day goes by where we don't discuss something that, 36 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: in the end, lee is caused by these these drug addictions. 37 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: That's largely what you're seeing in the streets. Let's get 38 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: to Sam on here. Sam, welcome again. 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: How are you. 40 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 4: Good? How about you? 41 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: We're great, We're good. Uh. 42 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: Talk about just for openers so people understand the playing field, 43 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: the sentinel, the meth This is unlike anything that's ever 44 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: existed before in our society. 45 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 4: Yes, and I think it really has to do with 46 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 4: a combination of the supply of these drugs, of prevalency, 47 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 4: enormous quantities of these drugs coming across from Mexico, and 48 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 4: also the potency. Now fentanyl in itself is just remarkably 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 4: potent a drug, but the method Fennament two out of 50 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 4: Mexico now is being made in UH with enormous potency 51 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 4: and is apparently by large not being cut on the 52 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 4: streets of the United States, largely probably because there isn't 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 4: a need to. Normally, drug dealers will take will cut drugs, 54 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 4: will dilute their drugs, in other words, if their drugs 55 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 4: are scarce, if they need to make them last longer 56 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 4: and song. But Metham fettament is not scarce, it's remarkably prevalent. 57 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 4: The prices now, we have a long pricing history for 58 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 4: Metham settlement, and I think in most parts of the 59 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 4: country the price is at the historic low it's ever 60 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 4: been seen. And so that is what is making these 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: drugs such a problem. Fenton has been around for a while, 62 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 4: but it's it's been in such minute quantities, very sporadic 63 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 4: and various minute quantities, that it's never been the problem 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 4: that it is today. And today, of course and method 65 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 4: settlement now cover the country, so there's really no region 66 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 4: to the country you go where there is no meth 67 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 4: or or or functional and there it's just the supply 68 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 4: is so relentless, so cheap, so potent of both these 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 4: drugs that it's really that is what is creating this 70 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 4: very very different world on the street and calling into 71 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 4: question I think a lot of the policies that were 72 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 4: conceived well before the State of Affairs. 73 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: Before we get into that specifically, there is one thing 74 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: you said, I think the last time we talked, which 75 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: really had a profound effect on me, at least in 76 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: understanding what's going on. That these drugs take away a 77 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 2: person's desire to survive, which is why they don't respond 78 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: to outreach right to obvious offers of help, because they're 79 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: no longer interested anymore. 80 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 4: I think many drugs do this. I mean, you can 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 4: see this one with alcohol and skid Row and the 82 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 4: Bowery in New York City many many, many years ago. 83 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 4: It really depends on prevalence and ease of access to 84 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 4: the apply and that is what is making these drugs 85 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 4: too so devastating in the way that you describe. And 86 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,559 Speaker 4: you can see this in ten camments. I think people 87 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 4: in LA have seen this, you know, people living in squalor, feces, 88 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 4: exploitation and that kind of thing, and am offered help, 89 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 4: offered housing, offered treatment of one kind or another and 90 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 4: saying no, no, I'm fine, I'm better off here, or 91 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 4: I'm with my friends. People frequently don't want to go 92 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 4: into places where they don't have the freedom to use drugs, 93 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 4: or they don't aren't around other people who will kind 94 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 4: of enforced their decisions and so on, and so it's 95 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 4: I think this is part of drug abuse, frankly, but 96 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 4: it is especially true of these two drugs right now because, 97 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 4: as I said earlier, the quantities are just so relentless, 98 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 4: and the potency is now just more smarter than we've 99 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 4: ever we've ever seen. 100 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: What's the problem with harm reduction? 101 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 4: Well, some things are not a problem with harm reduction. 102 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 4: I mean, I believe we are in a time when 103 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 4: we need to try everything. I absolutely believe in the 104 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 4: importance of using say narcan or the lock zone keeping 105 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 4: people alive. The problem is when that's all that you 106 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 4: do and you don't do anything else. And I believe 107 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 4: that we have fallen into the same trap where we 108 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 4: fell into with the okioid epidemic. We tried to cure 109 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 4: pain with one tool, and this is pain. It derives 110 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 4: from the main brain chemistry, of the rard pathways of 111 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 4: our brain chemistry. As this addiction. We tried to cure 112 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 4: all pain with one tool, and that tool was opioid 113 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 4: pain killers, and we're still paying for that foolishness. I 114 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 4: believe that when you try to treat anything derived from 115 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 4: the basic brain chemistry, that we all possess that with 116 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 4: one tool, and that is in this case, harm reduction. 117 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 4: No other thing can be used. And I think on 118 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 4: the West Coast you're particularly finding this debate center only 119 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 4: around harm reduction. All other ideas are are not to 120 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 4: be considered, and so on. That you run into problems 121 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 4: because this is something that requires a vast array of 122 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 4: approaches and for some people in some moments, clearly using 123 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 4: the lock to keep people alive is a good thing. 124 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 4: Keeping people alive is a good thing, but it's not 125 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 4: keeping them alive long term. You've postponed depth essentially is. 126 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: What you because they can revive you in the moment, 127 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: but then you're going to continue to use ultimately. Yeah, 128 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: the rescuer is going to walk away and an hour 129 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: later you could have the same condition. 130 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 4: That's exactly what happens in what's front. What we're finding 131 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 4: is a historic fact, I believe anyway, is that we 132 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 4: are now seeing more people than probably any other place 133 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 4: in the planet overdose from opioids, and more people be 134 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 4: revived from o prs because darkan is so widespread. The problem, though, is, 135 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 4: and I think this is where the harm reduction philosophy 136 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 4: gets into some real serious issues, is that just because 137 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 4: you revived does not mean you return to normal or 138 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 4: baseline as they as they call it, because you just 139 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 4: had oxygen deprive Your brain has just had oxygen deprived 140 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 4: of and so you go into there is some amount 141 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 4: of brain impairment with every overdoes that could be minor, 142 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 4: but normally the idea is, and I think brain trauma 143 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 4: research is pretty of one mind on this that you 144 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 4: really need. What you really need is time for your 145 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 4: brain to heal. That's why in the NFL they take 146 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: you off the field, but concussion and they leave you 147 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 4: and you can't go back for several weeks. You know, 148 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 4: it's allowing the brain to heal from the injury. It 149 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 4: just sustained well on the street, that doesn't happen. You go. 150 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 4: You can be revived back to life, brought back to 151 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: life in a very miraculous way. By the way, Uh 152 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 4: this word this drug works. But the problem is you've 153 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 4: been out. Your brain has been without some of the 154 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 4: oxygen that it needs for say three minutes or five 155 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,599 Speaker 4: minutes or more, ten minutes whatever, and that itself is 156 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 4: going to create problems. And it's also going to create 157 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 4: problems in the parts of the brain that you need 158 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: to make the decision to move away from memory and 159 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 4: the prefrontal cortex, which is right behind the forehead where 160 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 4: which is the part of the brain that that that 161 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 4: governs consideration of future consequences of current actions basically, and 162 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 4: it's it harms those parts the communication between those two. 163 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 4: And what that means is every time you revived, you 164 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 4: have a little bit of damage. Maybe not a lot, 165 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 4: but it builds up. If you don't have the time. 166 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: To really ideal it could be cumulative. 167 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 4: It absolutely can be can be accumulative and over time, 168 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 4: and that's what we're seeing now. We're seeing people. I 169 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 4: think it's fairly routine. Now I'm paramedics finding people who 170 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 4: have overdosed fifteen twenty twenty five thirty times. On my Instagram, 171 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 4: Paige sam King Ella's underscore author. You can see and 172 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 4: hear an interview with a woman who who I think 173 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 4: she told me she overdosed twenty six times in fifteen 174 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 4: months and she's really not able to help with kids 175 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 4: with them homework anymore. I mean, there's these basic things 176 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 4: you're reading. Level tends to kind of with her at 177 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 4: a time. You make mistakes between where's the beginners saying letters? 178 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 4: There's this kind of gradually eroding. 179 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: About permanent brain damage. 180 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 4: Well, it's unclear how permanent it is, but certainly I 181 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 4: guess you might say, I think the one brain researcher 182 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 4: called its semi permanent, and they well be permanent. It's 183 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 4: I think it depends on how much, how often the 184 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 4: constitution of the person. There's a lot of very. 185 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: Can you can you hold on clearly? Can you hold on? 186 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 4: Sam? Oh? Sure? 187 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: All right, we'll have more with Sam Kenonis. He's a journalist. 188 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 3: His latest book is the Least of Us True Tales 189 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 3: of America and a Hope in the Time of Fentanyl 190 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 3: and meth And he wrote a piece for Atlantic and 191 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 3: you just heard him say that harm reduction, this idea 192 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: of standing by with narcan and giving people the tools 193 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 3: they need to take drugs, can't be the only method 194 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 3: to attack this huge drug problem, especially in a time 195 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 3: of heavy fentanyl and mathews. 196 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: We'll have more. 197 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 3: We'll also have a keyword for you, possibly to win 198 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 3: some money. Johnny KENKFI AM six forty Live Everywhere iHeartRadio app. 199 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 5: You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI 200 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 5: AM six forty. 201 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: We continue with Sam kenonas Yes, he's a journalist and 202 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: his latest book The Least of Us True Tales of 203 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 2: America and Hope in the Time of Fentanyl and myth 204 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: that he's been talking to us about. Well, in California, 205 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: it seems to be the only thing they use to 206 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: approach the drug problem, an overdose death problem is what 207 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: they call harm reduction. But he says, you can use that, 208 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: but you need other tools to have an effect on 209 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: this problem, particularly with the scourge of fentanyl meth. Okay, 210 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: so somebody overdoses, they get narcan in the street. What's 211 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: the next thing that the government ought to do that 212 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 2: would be effective. Yeah, I was going to ask you, 213 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: Sam about the enforcement angle of this that you think 214 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: we needed more of. 215 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: What would that be? 216 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I think it's I think in 217 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 4: some areas of the country, particularly some parts of the 218 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 4: West Coast, you find, for example, the almost the legalization 219 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 4: of soling sentinel. It's almost it's a misdemeanor essentially in 220 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 4: some areas, particularly in the small quantities. I actually think 221 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 4: that's a huge mistake, in part because it encourages the 222 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 4: sale of fentannel, but also because it's selling fentanyl is 223 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 4: very much like shooting a gun into a crowd. You 224 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 4: know you're gonna hurt somebody, You're probably gonna kill somebody. 225 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 4: And the piece that I wrote that you referred to 226 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 4: in the Atlantic, I also talk about the importance of 227 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 4: rethinking jail, but of course that requires the idea that 228 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 4: you're going to begin to arrest people again for minor quantities. 229 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 4: The problem, the problem with fentanel and myth is that 230 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 4: there is no such thing anymore as a minor drug charge. 231 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 4: I don't think ever, and like the way it was conceived, 232 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 4: say twenty thirty forty years ago, which is like a 233 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 4: little baggy of marijuana or something like that, every time 234 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 4: you arrest somebody with a meth pipe or some sentanel 235 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 4: that what that means is that person is almost going 236 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 4: to die. Is a life and death situation. It's not 237 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 4: a minor charge anymore. And I believe what is happening 238 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 4: in the Midwest with regard to jail is very, very interesting, 239 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 4: and we on the West Coast ought to take note 240 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 4: of it. In the Midwest, they've had years of dealing 241 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 4: with the opioid epidemic and they have been transitioning towards 242 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 4: a new way of thinking about jail. Jail is a 243 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 4: place first of all, you get arrested, you detox, very 244 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 4: important to get the dope out of your system. You 245 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 4: begin the process of separating yourself from the drugs. But 246 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 4: then there's also a pod in a lot of these 247 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 4: jails I'm referring to that is all about recovery. It's 248 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: very much like a treatment center on the outside. With 249 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 4: the one benefit that jail has, which is you can't 250 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 4: leave when the dope tells you that you must. Because 251 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 4: that is a benefit, that's a blessing because on the street, 252 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 4: given the lethality of the drugs today, getting out and 253 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 4: going back to the street and so it means you 254 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 4: have a very high chance, and you will be dead 255 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 4: very very soon. Instead a jail in which you put people, 256 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 4: you arrest people for small stuff, with the idea then 257 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 4: that you are then going to that they will then 258 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 4: transition into a recovery pot in which they are not. 259 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 4: You know, most of the time you're in jail, you're 260 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 4: wasting your time. You're playing cards, watching Judge Duty, whatever 261 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 4: you're doing. It's not very productive. In these pods, its 262 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 4: all about recovery. And it's in these pods its very 263 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 4: stroke striking that there are no drugs. And a lot 264 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 4: of jails are drugs, but in these pods there aren't. 265 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 4: Because you get people who are little by little separating 266 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 4: themselves and developing readiness for sobriety that they cannot achieve 267 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 4: on the street because their drugs are just so plentiful 268 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 4: and so potent. And I find this to be a 269 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 4: very i would say encouraging approach that on the West 270 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 4: Coast is not being undertaken in the degree to the 271 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 4: degree that it's being tried in the Midwest. I think 272 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 4: largely because there's this idea that anything they're having to 273 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 4: do with jail smacks of the drug war, must therefore 274 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 4: be bad, et cetera. New thinking. 275 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: It's not a very intelligent way to approach this. 276 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 2: I mean, the way you're talking should be the way 277 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: that all the politicians in California are talking with detail 278 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: and nuance and not just a banning. 279 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: The drug war was a failure, So we're not going 280 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: to do anything with enforcement, right, I mean, I mean. 281 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: The government here is completely overwhelmed at every level, and 282 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: the result is people are just dying in the street, 283 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: but literally by the thousands. 284 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 4: I don't see how that that can be defined as compassionate. 285 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 4: That's what I'm struck by every time I go to 286 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 4: skid Row or some of the tent campment's along enough 287 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 4: three ways, or went after you. I was in vent 288 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 4: of speech recently. The same thing kind of was true 289 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 4: in parts of Vento speech. Now it just seems to 290 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 4: me that that, you know, the problem with a drug 291 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 4: war here was in my conception, it is not that 292 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 4: we use law enforcement, and so we only use law enforcement. 293 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 4: And again I get back to this whole idea that 294 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 4: the the times you're going to get in trouble with 295 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 4: anything connected to the brain chemistry, which is so complex, 296 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 4: so difficult understand, we still don't understand a ton about 297 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 4: the brain chemistry of each of us. It's very much 298 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 4: like the mysterious as the universe, you know. But what 299 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 4: you can say is when you're trying to deal with 300 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 4: things that are so complex, dealing with the reward pathways 301 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 4: of the of the of the brain, that using one 302 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 4: soul tool will get you into trouble. And I think 303 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 4: that's what using only harm reduction actually is. You can 304 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 4: I think that the refects of this are, you know, 305 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 4: frankly fairly clear on the streets of Los Angeles and 306 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 4: other particularly other towns in the western side of the 307 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 4: United States. 308 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: All right, Sam, we have to go. 309 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 3: We thank you very much for coming on our show 310 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 3: again and again. His latest book is The Least of Us, 311 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 3: Two Tales of American and Hope in the Time of 312 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 3: FENTONYL and Map. 313 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: Then, of course, an article he wrote for Atlantic about 314 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: America's approach to addiction has gone off the rails. Thanks again, Tam, 315 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: appreciate it, my pleasure. 316 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 4: Thank you every. 317 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: Time every time he comes on it a voice of reason. 318 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 2: I think about it in a new way though, And 319 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: he's the only person that we talk to or read 320 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 2: about where you leave the conversation, thinking about it in 321 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: another dimension, and this is how everybody should be speaking 322 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: about this issue. 323 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: He should go to Sacramento and talk to that Public 324 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 3: Safety committee about a more rational approach to the problem 325 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 3: and all this harm reduction stuff. 326 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: All right, more coming up. Well, speaking of that, we 327 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: will be talking. 328 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: We put him in Satan's like a fire John Reggie 329 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: Jones sawyer, But apparently he's popped back out and he's 330 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: in the news because he wants five billion dollars related 331 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: to the drug problem. He's governing from the lake. John 332 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 2: Kenn Trump is going to govern from prison. 333 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yes, he's dissolved though, Yeah, well he is. 334 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: He's still holding meetings. 335 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 5: You're listening to John and Ken on demand from KFI 336 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 5: AM six forty. 337 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the moistline is coming back around in just 338 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 3: a few days. So we invite you to leave a 339 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 3: message using the iHeartRadio app the microphone icon or called 340 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 3: the toll free number one eight seven seven moist eighty 341 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 3: six one eight seven seven six six four seven eight 342 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 3: eight six. 343 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: Well. 344 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 3: Uh, when California has budget problems in the past, when 345 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 3: there were a few Republicans in Sacramento who could fight 346 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 3: it was always over raising taxes. They're not doing that 347 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 3: so much anymore because we have budget problems. But wow, 348 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: do you know what's coming your way in the next 349 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 3: couple of ballot votes? Tons of bond proposals. Oh, the 350 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: old idea that it's borrowing, Yeah, borrowing for a good cause. 351 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 3: First one we'll talk about is related to what we've 352 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 3: just been talking about this hour. 353 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: Which is drug overdoses. Assembly Public Safety Committee Chair Reggie 354 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: Jones Sawyer, a Democrat from la who we put in 355 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: Satan's Lake of Fire, is looking for you to vote 356 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: yes on five point two billion dollars in bond money 357 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: for a comprehensive approach to the fentanyl overdose crisis. Five 358 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: point two billion. He actually got a Republican to sign 359 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: on to this. The vice chair one allow Us, who 360 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: is on our show recently, two billion dollars for substance 361 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: abuse treatment, four hundred million for Oh there it is 362 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: harm reduction progress, all right. 363 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 2: But you know, based on just our interview Sam Canonez, 364 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: clearly that's going to be a lot of money spent 365 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: that ultimately will have little effect because you give somebody 366 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: Narcan and the next hour they could be overdosing again. 367 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: And they're giving themselves permanent brain damage shrinking. 368 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: Right, So to. 369 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: Piggyback on what Conona said, I'd listen for five minutes 370 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: to his his bond idea or even attacks if there 371 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 2: was other approaches too. 372 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what's going to stick with me from 373 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 3: that interview with the sam was this idea that's been 374 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 3: doing in the Midwest that when you do put people 375 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 3: in jail, it does take them away from the drugs 376 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 3: completely so they can get back on the road. If 377 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 3: you're just going to continue to let them use the 378 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 3: drugs and then give them narc can to help them 379 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 3: to revive, and then give them what they need to 380 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 3: take the drugs sentinels at end, as John just said, 381 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 3: the brain is getting reduced every time you use it, 382 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 3: and eventually you'll be dead. So you're not really the 383 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 3: approach you want to take. 384 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: You're slightly delaying their death if you only give them narcant. 385 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: Now maybe you don't care. I mean, that's that's a 386 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 2: at this point, that's a reasonable proposition that there might 387 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 2: be a limit how much money you want to spend 388 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 2: on these people. They're gonna kill themselves anyway, but to 389 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: have to charge us more money for something that's going 390 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: to fail. Just fail these drug addicts a little more slowly. 391 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: I don't I don't see what the value of that is. 392 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 2: You know, he see, Reggie John Sawyer is not reasonable 393 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: if he would pass laws that criminalize selling fentinyl to 394 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: people seriously criminalized. 395 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: Like the last bill that. 396 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 2: He blocked was to turn selling fentinyl that results in 397 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 2: a death into a serious felony eligible for three strikes consideration. 398 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: He voted against that block that bill. 399 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: It's hard to take them seriously if you don't want 400 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: to throw the guy who's selling the fentanyl in prison 401 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 2: for a long time. 402 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: They apparently advanced one bill from Assemblyman Carlos Villapudilla from Stockton. 403 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: It would apply sentencing enhancement enhancements for other drug crimes 404 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: to fentanyl dealers. 405 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: If you read Canoni's article, Canonas's article, and we should 406 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: have a link for it on our you know, the 407 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 2: social media on our Atlantic article. Yeah, he wrote it 408 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 2: to last month, but if you read it, you realize 409 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: at the end he talks about these programs in the Midwest. 410 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: They're having some success, but it takes a while. It 411 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: takes a while, and you got to spend some money. 412 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 2: This can't be regular prison, like he said, where they're 413 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 2: watching TV and playing cards. This has to be a 414 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: real program. You got to get them out of circulation 415 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 2: so they don't take drugs, and you really have to 416 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 2: just completely rewire how they approach life. The drug needs. 417 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 2: Some drugs need sometimes first of all, to process out 418 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 2: of the city them because they could stick around for 419 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: weeks and months afterwards, and so you're always going to 420 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: have a desire for more and more. 421 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: It takes a while. That's going to be costly. 422 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 2: Now, if we're collectively up for that and it's executed properly, 423 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: there might be benefits. 424 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: But if we're not going to do it right, we're 425 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: not going to do it at all. 426 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 2: I don't know what the point is just to buy 427 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: billions of dollars of narcam I don't know what I mean. 428 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: I'll be clearly Reggie Jones. 429 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: Sawyer doesn't really care how many people die of fentanyl overdoses. 430 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: I don't think he cares. 431 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: He's just got this one stupid idea banging around in 432 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 2: his head that nobody could ever go to prison. So 433 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: with that stupid idea banging around, you can't get through 434 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: to him about anything else. 435 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 3: Well, he's in a story in Politico where he apparently 436 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 3: wants to put before the voters borrowing of up to 437 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 3: twenty six billion dollars mental health treatment schools. Oh boy, 438 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: and your favorite John adapting to climate change. 439 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: See, this will just cut down the old military industrial 440 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: complex spending home. 441 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: Here's the thing, this is classic. He'll take one issue 442 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 2: that a lot of people agree on, that we've got 443 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 2: to get these drug addicts off the street and in treatment. Right, 444 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 2: most people would say yes, off the street and in 445 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 2: treat treatment that works, okay, not BS treatment, something that sticks, 446 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 2: And then he lards it up with a lot of 447 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: nonsense like, yeah, climate change. I you know, I am 448 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 2: completely out of my mind on these climate change fanatics. 449 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: I read I read this on the air. 450 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Joel Cootkin piece about how China and India 451 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: are going nuts building coal fired plants because they have 452 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 2: two and a half billion people. 453 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: They've got a service. 454 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: Everything we've done here in California has gone to nothing. 455 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 2: It's had no effect on the climate, no effect, no effect, 456 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: no effect on the planet. But he wants to take 457 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: billions and more dollars for more pointless. 458 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: You know, the belief was where a world leader, they'll 459 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: follow us. But that hasn't happened. That hasn't happened. Even 460 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: the US hasn't followed us, in fact, let alone China. 461 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: China, in fact, India calls it climate imperialism, that we're 462 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 2: trying to force our new wacky idea on them and 463 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 2: on China. They have zero interest in it, zero, So 464 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 2: they're nobody. They're not following it. They have these they 465 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 2: have these stupid things they repeat over and over that 466 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: are false. There's absolutely false. It's not debatable. Nobody's following us. 467 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: We're just shooting ourselves in the head. And of course, 468 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 2: so he attaches this, this failed climate plan to something 469 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 2: that might have support. Well, his real purpose is to 470 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 2: spread money to, you know, the industries that contribute to 471 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: his campaign, the climate industry, whoever's you know, the union 472 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: people who are going to be building the schools. That's 473 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: what the real point is. But right now, you know, 474 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 2: fighting harm reduction is trendy. Fenton al overdose. Yeah, it's 475 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: trendy to want to stop bites. 476 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: He's a he's a. 477 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 3: He said, who you want to finish that waste piece 478 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 3: of work, waste product, just a piece of work. 479 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: Oh waste product. 480 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 3: All right, We got more coming up, including Oh, it's 481 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: happened again, an attack on a climate activist in Europe 482 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 3: in Germany. This time it got really ugly as once 483 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 3: again the climate protesters try to stop traffic for their cause. 484 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: People are not putting up with that. 485 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 3: We'll give you the latest story Johnny Ken k if 486 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 3: I AM six forty live everywhere. 487 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app Vegans better not try this. The Germans are 488 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 2: going to kick their ashes, right, don't you get involved. 489 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: With this sort I don't get involved in that. 490 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 5: Sort of You're listening to John and Ken on demand 491 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 5: from KFI AM six forty. 492 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 3: Coming up after three o'clock, we'll heading to Bidenville for 493 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 3: a few stories there you might want to hear. All right, now, 494 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 3: we're back on the climate protests seen once again in Germany. 495 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 3: We had a confrontation climate protesters in Europe. We've talked 496 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 3: about London and parts of Germany like to take to 497 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 3: the streets and block the roads and highways. And they've 498 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 3: even gone to the airport and glued themselves to the 499 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 3: runway because, as you know, flying whoo tremendous carbon footprint there. 500 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 3: So they want to stop the planes as part. 501 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 2: Of the why don't they go to China and do this? 502 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 2: With all the carbon China is blowing into the atmosphere 503 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: tremendous abouts, a huge many times more. 504 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: How longer they last in China if they tried to 505 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 1: do this? 506 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 2: Don't lay down on a road in China, go block 507 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: some Chinese tree. There'd be a tank running them over, 508 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: like the Animan square Exactly. You're not going to show 509 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: them it's Gediman Square video and say hey, why don't 510 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: you go to Beijing and pull this stunt? 511 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 3: They call themselves the last generation. In German it said, 512 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 3: let's see generation. You get it, the last generation because 513 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: they think they'll be it because the. 514 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 2: Plane is doom good. If this is the best we 515 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 2: can do, it should be the last generation. 516 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 3: So a trucker apparently got so irate at an intersection 517 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 3: where a lot of drivers go through. He came out 518 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 3: of his truck, he slammed the door, he charged at 519 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 3: the activists and apparently he dragged one of them off 520 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 3: the road and then eventually bumped another one forward using 521 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 3: his vehicle. 522 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 1: I guess he like gently knocked her over. They were 523 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: hanging on trying to stop him. Well, they took his 524 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: license and they're going to do an investigation ast whether 525 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: this is an assault. 526 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I think we're gonna have to 527 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 2: have a few random assaults in Germany. I think he's 528 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: the only way to deal with this. Guys just gonna 529 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 2: have to get a ride to work for a little while. 530 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: Give him a desk job. 531 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 4: Now. 532 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, back in California where they think, oh, we're so 533 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 3: hot with the climate, We're doing everything. And because they're 534 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 3: idiots and they like to pick up on trends, apparently 535 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 3: the Democrats in Sacramento have hopped on the Barbin. Since 536 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 3: the movie made a lot of money last weekend, it 537 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: was quite the talk all through Monday. They've decided to 538 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 3: connect the Barbie character in the movie to their policies. 539 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: What even Newsome got involved. Here's one thing that was tweeted. 540 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 3: She's a righteous surfer and she's a climate champion who 541 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 3: drives an electric vehicle. Apparently Mattel does make a lavender 542 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 3: colored electric convertible for Barbie dolls. 543 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: She complete with a tiny charging station. She's a doll. Yes, 544 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: that's why this is ridiculous. They think it's real. 545 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: No, they just think it's cool to be associated with 546 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 3: a success. 547 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: Well, they really are morons, aren't they. 548 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, how did they even how did they 549 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 2: even eat breakfast by themselves? What a bunch of brain stems. 550 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: You're taking a movie character based on a plastic doll 551 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: and claiming that her values need to be amplified by 552 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 2: their new wacky ideas for laws and rest. No sense 553 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: of reality to this. What a bunch of empty empty cans? 554 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, is there even fifty IQ points among 555 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 2: the whole lot of them? 556 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: Apparently in the movie even children wouldn't think like that. 557 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: She gets onto a bart train in the Bay Area 558 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 3: and Scott Wiener jumped on this, wake up new public 559 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 3: transportation that Barbie just dropped. Did someone say, bart B? 560 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 3: You like that bart B? 561 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: He's an idiot? You know what? 562 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: For was a realistic movie, Barbie would have been assaulted 563 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 2: and carried away and never seen again. No, you would 564 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: add a homeless guy throw up on Barbie's dress? 565 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: Did you rush out to see it, Deborah Mark? I 566 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: have not seen it yet. She came in such a 567 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: Barbie fan. She just came in yesterday. 568 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 6: Dress she did I have been wearing pink. Before there 569 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 6: was a Barbie movie. 570 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: There was more pink in here yesterday. Have no idea, 571 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: but I like pink. 572 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 6: I've always liked Chicken has nothing to do with Barbie 573 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 6: two pink. 574 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: Sure, it's probably the whole movie. Is pink, right? 575 00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 4: Pin? 576 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 2: Look at a picture pink car shoes. Yes, yeah, you 577 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 2: should get you should go on social media. There's photos 578 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: of her last I'm sure. 579 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: Ken's gonna jump to do that. I can't wait. Pink 580 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: is is a way of saying, please look at me, 581 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: because it's bright and attention clouding. It was. It was 582 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: shocking pink in fact, wasn't it. Yeah? 583 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 4: I like them. 584 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 3: They claimed that Barbie can be anything she wants, astronaut, mom, teacher, doctor, 585 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 3: princess president. It wasn't that long ago. Weren't they picking 586 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: on the Barbie dolls because they were making girls believe 587 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 3: they had to have that perfect figure. Yes, and they 588 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 3: thought that the doll was kind of stuck in a stereotype. 589 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 3: Now it's being praised because of this movie. I didn't 590 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 3: see it, so I don't. They're just trying to make money, 591 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 3: that's all. They're only making money. They want to sell dolls. 592 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 3: They want to sell movie tickets. That's all it is. 593 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 3: There's there's nothing more to it. It's sometimes stories are 594 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: just stories. Yeah, people, You know how. 595 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: Many times I've read about authors were screenwriters or whoever, 596 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 2: and and the interviewer usually some you know, bearded fool. Well, 597 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 2: you know a lot of people are saying that your 598 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: intention in this movie, that your message in this movie, 599 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 2: and the author looks and says, what, No, I didn't 600 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 2: even think of that. 601 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: No, that's a story I thought of. 602 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: There's no political message here, there's no social epiphany here. 603 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 6: Well, people are saying that in the movie Barbie, it 604 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 6: is all pro women and women's rights and a lot 605 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 6: of that. 606 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: We've had that for fifty plus years, though, I mean, 607 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: I mean sixty years. I don't get it. It's a doll. Yeah. 608 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: The idiot congressman Robert Garcia, he used to be the 609 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: mayor of Long Beach, remember him. He destroyed Long Beach. 610 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: They ruined Long Beach, and he got a promotion to Congress. 611 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: He turned that city into a sore. 612 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: Of course he got a promotion because the people in 613 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 2: Long Beach apparently like living in a sore. 614 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: I don't understand. 615 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 3: He's said, oh my god, he writes, what about Barbie? 616 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 3: We demanded Barbie showing for congressional members, and then he 617 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 3: shared a tweet featuring him in a fake Barbie poster. 618 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: You're not gonna believe the caption. 619 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 3: This Ken is the first lgbt Q plus immigrant in Congress. 620 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: It's a dunity politics. 621 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: But when I was referring to himself as a Ken, 622 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 3: he wants you to think of another Ken. 623 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 4: You know what? 624 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 3: And here and this version of Ken is the first 625 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 3: lgbt Q plus immigrant in Congress. 626 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: I say, a middle aged man who's posting things about 627 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 2: a Barbie doll is a weirdo and you don't want 628 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: to sit next to him in a movie theater, all right. 629 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: This guy's demanding to go to a movie theater by 630 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 2: himself to watch. 631 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 3: He wants all of Congress to see the movie. They 632 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 3: should have a showing like in Congress on the floor. 633 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, they show the movie. I don't know, and they'll 634 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: all wear pink e use it. They might. 635 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: They must be it must be brain damage from meth 636 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: and fantomol. That's what I'm thinking. They must all be 637 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: snorting off hours. 638 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 4: All right. 639 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 3: When we come back, we're going to be in Bidenville, 640 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 3: you better prepare yourself because we might be going through 641 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 3: the impeachment process again. In the House of Representatives. We 642 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 3: went through it a couple of times with Trump. Now 643 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 3: that Biden's president, Republicans, including the Leader of the House 644 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 3: of Representatives Republicans Kevin McCarthy, are talking about. 645 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: An impeachment inquiry. I know this is always a fun sideshow. Well, 646 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: of course it has to do with Hunter Biden and 647 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: his business. More coming up Johnny Ken, caf I Am 648 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: six forty live everywhere iHeart Radio app, and Debor Mark 649 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: Latten the twenty four hour Cafe news Room. Hey, you've 650 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: been listening to the John and Ken Show. You can 651 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: always hear us live on CAFI AM six forty one 652 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: pm to four pm every Monday through Friday, and of course, 653 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.