WEBVTT - How Drug Courts Work 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:06.520 Hey, everybody, tour announcement, it's just me. Chuck. Josh isn't 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:07.760 here for this one. We had to get it out 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:11.520 the door. So apologies for fifty of stuff you should know. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.440 But we have added two dates to uh the two 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.280 thousand eighteen tour, and there may be another couple to come. 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.560 You never know. But everybody we asked Salt Lake City 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.200 ins and Utahn's should we come there, and boy, we 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.040 heard from you, so we're coming. It is that easy. 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:32.280 Tuesday October, we are coming to Salt Lake City for 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.839 an evening with stuff you should know at the Grand 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.159 Theater and we are super excited. I'll tell you what. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.680 You guys really came through on the emails and social 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.559 meds and let us know that we would see some 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.440 love if we came to Salt Lake City, a city 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:48.800 we've talked about often in the past. So we are 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.479 a coming Tuesday, October twenty three, and we decided, hey, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.000 we're gonna be out there, we might as well add 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.480 another city that we've never been to. So it is 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.840 your lucky day, Phoenix eras Zona and dare I say, 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.840 Tucson and in the Greater Phoenix area drive over to 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:10.200 Phoenix and come see us on Wednesday October at the 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.240 Van Buren. And this is also an evening with Stuff 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:14.920 you Should Know. I don't even know what that means, 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.200 but it sounds a little more regal than normal. So 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:23.000 come see us October Salt Lake City and Phoenix. Uh, 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:24.680 you know what, I don't even know if tickets are 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.200 on sale. I believe by the time this announcement goes up, 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.640 tickets will be on sale, and you can go to 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.839 the Van Buren website or to the Grand Theater website 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.440 to get your ticket links. I will try and have 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.120 them up very soon on s y s K live 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.480 dot com, but I don't know if I'll get to 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.000 that today, but look forward soon and we can't wait 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.040 to see you, guys. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:57.400 from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.640 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.200 and we've got guest producer Tristan with us today. Ye 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.200 who's filling in for Jerry who may or may not exist. 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.600 Tristan exists. Look at him. He shaved his mustache. I know, 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.040 and Chuck, he shaved his mustache. Within a day of 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.440 me telling him how cool it was next time I 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.480 saw him, no mustache. Interesting, Yeah, that's what I thought too. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.000 What's that all about, Tristan? That's cool, that's probably the 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.240 appropriate response to that one. Yeah, but he's I noticed. 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.040 You can't even look at in the eye right now. 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:38.440 So no, luckily we're sitting beside one another, not facing 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.839 one another. Else to be really weird for the next 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:47.240 two hours. Pulls a knife. You'll know that because I 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.480 just run from the room. Okay, that'll be the signal. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.720 All right, sounds good. So let's say that Tristan pulled 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.080 the knife on me and I had nothing to do 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.800 with the fact that I complimented slash ruined his mustache. Um, 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.960 let's say that it was because he was a drug 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.400 addled lunatic. Okay, like he was literally attracted to the 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:14.120 moon and he was on drugs and he pulled a knife. Um, 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.480 had I got my phone out in time and called 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.799 nine one one and the cops had shown up, you know, 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.760 immediately and arrested him. Tristan could have been up for 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:28.720 what's known as chuck a drug court. Yeah and wait, wait, 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:31.720 that was now my best in trove. No, that was 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.120 good of the ten years, but it was in the 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:39.880 top sadly, Okay, so that means in the like about 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.680 I can't even do math right now? So what's wrong 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.800 with your brain? I went to a show last night, 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.040 so I'm I'm I didn't even drink much. I'm just tired. 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:55.440 Who'd you go see? Calexico? Oh? Really? Boys? Yeah? What else? 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.200 Are they? An? Iron and Wine? Well they did a 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.840 they did a record with with them, That's what it was. 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:05.720 But they're not in them, you know what I mean. 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.600 So they did it. They did a joint jam together, 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:11.880 they did, and I'm a little I'm just tired as 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.200 a result. Okay, well let me set it up again, Chuck, 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.640 I don't know. Okay. Well, here's the thing is, did 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:22.159 you uh did you really know about drug courts? I 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.000 mean it was something that I was aware of. I 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:28.360 don't sit and think about different types of courts much, um, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.080 and I've never been through drug court, but I I 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:32.599 guess I knew it was there. I didn't know this 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.640 much about it, and I certainly, I gotta say I've 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.680 never run across a more glowing review of drug courts 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.400 among anything in the media, and the media really loves 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.039 drug courts, but apparently how stuff works heart drug courts 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.560 like crazy. Yeah, I did not specifically know what it was. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.480 I did a brief little skim when I picked up 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.200 the article, but I thought when I saw drug courts, 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.280 I was very naive and I was like, oh that, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.280 you know, the are just like courts set up just 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.920 to run people into jail as fast as possible. Oh 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.520 I see, I see, you know, like just let's turn 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.800 and burn like a hundred cases a day and just 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.919 throw people in the slammer. But it turns out it 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.240 is the exact opposite of that. Yeah, it is, and 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.040 turning burn this is like top gun. All of a sudden, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.280 I am dangerous. So no, it's it's meant to be 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.880 the exact opposite and ideally, and it sounds like there 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.640 are some actually really really good, ideal drug courts out there. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:34.680 It is it's meant to do the opposite. It's meant 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.400 to say, hey, man, you're a criminal. Let's not kid 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.680 ourselves here, but you're a criminal really because you're addicted 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.800 to drugs. You're addict first in a criminal second, right, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.599 and then maybe a family member, fourth or fifth. But 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.960 you kind of put that on the back burner during 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.799 your drug career. Right, So, so you you're on drugs 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.800 and you're you're committing crimes and even more to the point, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:58.200 and this is how it kind of got its towards you, 0:05:58.240 --> 0:05:59.960 in which we'll get to in a second. I've seen 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.719 you before. I recognize your face. That's how bad this 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.880 situation is. You're clogging up the court system. I I've 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.559 got like a serial killer behind you who's like getting 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.600 very impatient. Frankly, we need to move this along, save 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:16.000 some money. Let's figure out if there's another way, um 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.120 that we can we can do this that actually helps you, 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.360 but that also helps society and saves costs, and that 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.000 came in the form of drug courts. Yeah, so should 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:29.080 we should we get in our our low rider, our 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.680 low rider way back machine and and drive back to 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:37.000 the the late eighties and Dade County, Florida. So first 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:41.000 I bought us matching pastel suits. I appreciate that to 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.520 where put it on, it's on, it's puffy, it looks 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.920 like what's that grepe paper? Crepe paper? Yeah, or fish skin? 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.520 All right, So we're in Miami Dade County. Um, we're 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:04.919 in our are metallic purple Lowrider. We're driving around and 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.560 there's a lot of people on crack. It's hid the 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:12.000 crack epidemic, right, and people are being run through, Like 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.800 you said, these courts so often, and these jails are 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.560 so clogged because these drug addicts are being run through there. 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.480 Sometimes they are dealing drugs, maybe sometimes they're committing crimes, 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.800 but sometimes they're just people who had drugs on them 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:31.480 and are very sadly addicted to crack cocaine. To the 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:34.600 point like where what you said, which is these these 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.160 judges are saying, man, you've been in here five times 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.040 in the last six months, and this is no good. 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.240 There's got to be a better way, right, So some 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:47.920 judges actually got together and they said, let's let's make 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.720 a better way. And they I don't know exactly how 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.000 they did this. They couldn't find the um full story 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.720 on it, like whose singular idea it was, or how 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.120 they actually went about establishing it. I guess they they 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:05.720 the municipal court system gives these judges a tremendous amount 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:10.000 of leeway and setting up courts on their own apparently. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.960 But in Miami Dade County, the judges got together and said, 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.040 we're gonna set up what what will be the nation's 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.160 first drug court. Actually I found out who the very 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.680 first person it was, judge drug. Oh that's what it 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.400 was named for. What a coincidence? Don't that weird? Judge 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:31.600 crack cocaine. But there was there's an interesting story in 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.560 our our own article that we should probably highlight about 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.480 this attorney, David Scott Marcus, that I thought was pretty interesting, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:44.040 and he was in He was an attorney on drugs. 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.240 He was arrested drug possession, leaving the scene him an accident. 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.920 His defense attorney. So, so, wait, you just painted a 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:58.160 picture that I think screams Porsche. Yeah, yeah, I probably had, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.000 which I thought was kind of like the coolest car. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.160 Time is it the one? It looked kind of like 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.120 a Lotus submarine bond low to submarine. It had like 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.800 the pointiest end, pointiest front. M it's the one from 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:16.120 Risky Business. Not familiar. I think that's all right, and 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.520 if I'm wrong, so be it. Porsche. I'm not going 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.200 to google that stuff right now. But he was a 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.800 defense attorney and a successful one too, and he was 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.440 assigned to drug court. His attorney said, can we can 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.920 we put this guy in drug court and his his 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:34.959 quote in this article says, it wasn't an arrest, it 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.760 was a rescue and he was in his mid thirties. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.040 Um went up in front of Judge Stanley Goldstein drug 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:47.920 and apparently like this is this is kind of a 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.520 great success story of a drug court situation because this 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.520 guy turned his life around, committed to this program, went 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.040 to the twelve step meetings, and is now a successful 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.880 attorney again trying to steer his clients to drug courts 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.240 because it works so well for him. Right, And that's 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.360 actually one of the ways you can be steered toward 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.800 a drug court is your attorney, your defense attorney can 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.679 go to the judge it when when you're busted and 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.520 say this person is a really great candidate for for 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.000 drug court. Judge can say I agree, let's do this 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.960 and kick you over the drug court. Yeah. So this 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.600 one in Miami was the first one. It was sort 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.120 of the pilot program, I guess, and uh, by most 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.640 measures and well we'll talk, We'll save the poop pooing 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.720 until the very end. How about that? That sounds okay? Um, 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.640 But it was looked at as a success and then 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.920 all around the country, they started emulating this program to 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.320 the tune of today. There says in our article there's 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.599 more than three thousand of these set up in the 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.080 United States. Yeah, it seems to be hovering just over 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.640 three thousand. I think I saw three thousand, fifty seven, 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.400 three thousand seventy six, so it seems to have topped 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.720 out at about three thousands. Although there is a two 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:06.839 thousand seventeen memo or I guess advisory from the Commission 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:11.160 on Combating Drug Addiction and the Opioid Crisis, and it 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.760 recommended this is ye two seventeen, late late two seventeen, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.880 that every district in the US established a drug court. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.840 So it's possible there will be more in the future. 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.680 I don't know how many districts are. Maybe there's three 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.400 thousand eighty two. Maybe we're almost there. But they're like, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.480 come on, you guys, just just let's make it a 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.160 h Yeah. So, like you were saying, it can come 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.559 from the defense attorney, but it can also be a prosecutor. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:43.200 It can be the cop who arrested you. Um. The 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.240 way I look at this is it seems like everyone 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.480 sort of it's like a team effort. It's it's set 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.719 up in a way so it's not adversarial. It's not 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.760 like the prosecutor and the defense attorney are fighting each 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.720 other in this case, and the judge, like everyone's sort 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.000 of kind of gets on the same side to say, hey, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.240 le's see if we can straighten this person out. Right. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.160 Not only is it not ever cereal and a drug court, 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.280 the prosecutor and the defense attorney are required to hold 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.480 hands throughout the entire hearing. I know, and Bobby mcferron, 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.320 right besides, as the bailiff, instead of swearing on the Bible, 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.640 you just think, don't worry, be happy. That's the same time, 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.840 and then everybody goes they clap and go drug court. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.320 At the end of every session, we should probably yes, yeah, 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:39.600 let's take a break. That's why Skoddy should know. Should 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:51.640 I go large? I was sk okay. So Bobby mcfarren 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.520 has just left the room. Oh and court is starting, Yes, 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.880 court is started. You know who would have been a 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:03.600 great drug court judge is Harry Stone r I p yeah, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.080 and that's it just recently passed. He was not an 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.880 old man, no, and by all accounts a really good guy. 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.720 When all the oh yeah people started pouring out their stories. 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.840 He was It seems like he was a really good dude. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.360 He did this some really heartfelt, like very moving one 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.600 man show um right after Hurricane Katrina that you can 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.599 as probably on YouTube, if not on like Netflix or 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.480 something like that. Um. That was about, you know, all 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.640 the horrible things that happened from the flooding and just 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.600 the humanitarian crisis that arose. It was pretty great. Wow. 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.480 And if you don't know who he is, people, then 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.040 we are referencing the great, great show Night Work from 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:43.560 the eighties. I would say, one great wow, build him up, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.800 and he knocked them down. No. I thought he was 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.640 accused a great individual, but the show itself was one great, 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.199 not great great, so Harry the great great Harry ins 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.120 and was limited by his the bad writing to one 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:01.280 great there you go. But but he his character specifically 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.440 from this this explanation of drug courts and what what 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.480 is expected of drug court judges, it is exactly what 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.400 he did. Like he was compassionate towards the person. He 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.480 wanted to know what their backstory was. He would recognize 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.120 them by sight, sometimes by name. Every once a while 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.320 he would lighten the move with the magic trick. Um. 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.080 Maybe take away the magic trick part. But all of 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.520 those things are boxes that a drug court judge is 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:33.720 supposed to check. It is nothing like what normal court is. Like, yeah, correct, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:38.720 which is why it's let's sitcom right, it's it's more 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.480 like night court than regular court drug court is. That's right. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.840 So all right, how it's how it works is very 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.440 dependent on what court it is, because as everyone knows 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.280 it's it's works on the state level, and then like 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.880 the city or county or municipality level as far as 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:00.360 how they want to structure their own scene. Sometimes it's 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.080 people that only people that have didn't have like a 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:09.040 violent crime um committed in the course of their drug use. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.760 I saw that that was a federal funding requirement that 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.480 really you couldn't also be up on violent crime charges. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.680 So like so like if you shot somebody in the 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.480 kneecap while you're robbing them for drug money, you're probably 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.840 not going to get kicked at drug court. Well, and 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.840 sometimes if you have dealt drugs, you're not allowed in 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.040 the drug court. That's another one. To a lot of 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:36.800 them tend to pick first time offenders um, people who 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.640 are new to the court system. If you are caught 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.640 on like possession charges or something like that, and there's 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.760 a drug court in the county that you're in or 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.400 the municipality that you're in, there's probably a hundred and 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.440 ten percent chance they will recommend drug court for you. Right. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:58.320 And then sometimes they will have the defendant sign a 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.600 contract saying, you know, I'm on board with this. I'm 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:06.000 actually signing my name on this document. Um. Sometimes they'll 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.120 even uh, they'll even have to plead guilty. Right. So 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.400 there's two ways that it can go. One is that 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.280 they say we have you. You are you've been indicted 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:23.200 and charged with possession of crack cocaine right right, And um, 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.800 if if you go to regular court, you will probably 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.440 get sentenced. Here's what your jail time might be. Um, 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.200 but we are offering for you to go to drug 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.000 court instead. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.600 defer these charges against you pending your graduation from this 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:42.880 drug court program. We'll get more into the program in 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.680 a second. But it's hanging out there as as a potential, Like, 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.560 but if you don't, then this is what's waiting for you. Right. 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.680 It's not like everybody's just gonna forget about it. After 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.760 you go to drug court, right, Like, this is this 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.360 is one of the things, right, So coercion is the 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.480 key to drug court, right. Um. The other way that 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.720 they can do it is they can say you have 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.520 to plead guilty to this charge, and if you go 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:11.480 to drug court and graduate successfully, you will the judge 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.200 will either dismiss your sentence or they might even expunge 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:21.280 the them the conviction from your from your permanent record. Yes, 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:26.040 I was trying to remember my violent femmes. Uh. And 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.480 here's the other thing that's that's different than regular court 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.800 is this is all done very fast. Um. It's not 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.879 like you're hung up for weeks and months trying to 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.800 figure this out. Because their whole deal is as you 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.040 you walk in there addicted to drugs, and they want 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.560 to get you treatment as soon as possible, right, so 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.000 in patient or outpatient. So so like within days of 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.439 an arrest, you could be in treatment. Yes, which is 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.000 again if you go to normal jail, that is not 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:59.680 what happens. Most jails don't offer treatment. Um, treatment programs. 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.640 Some do, but a lot of them don't. So if 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.480 you go to jail, your treatment is either going cold 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.639 Turkey or just doing a bunch of drugs in jail. Right. 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.880 This is this is meant to say, Okay, we're going 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.400 to actually keep you out of jail. You're not going 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.480 to jail right now, but you're going into this treatment program. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.320 And like you said, it could be impatient or outpatient. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.760 It can be public funded treatment, or it could be 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.119 a private like treatment hospital like a rehab center. Right. 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.479 And all of this stuff is is hammered out on 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.040 a case by case basis. So you are recommended by 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:40.359 either the your your attorney or a judge that sees 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.280 you in the criminal court might say you do better 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.200 in drug court. The arresting officer apparently can can recommend 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.120 drug court, and then they look at you as an 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.679 individual and they look at your individual case and then 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.200 they decide what is the best way to handle your case. 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.200 And there is definitely like a structure in a program 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.720 that every drug court is going to have have, but 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.600 there's a lot of room from what I understand, there's 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.800 a lot of room and a lot of leeway for 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:11.000 them to almost personally tailor your drug cord experience to 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.960 make it as successful as possible. And this is the 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.280 ideal version. Again, I know that we're holding off on 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.880 poo pooing as you can see chuck on biting clear 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.720 through my lower lip right now. But um, this is 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.359 the ideal version and it it it does exist in 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.320 some places. Yes, it's tailor made. It's like a pillow 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.640 menu at a nice hotel. Actually it's nothing like that. 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.439 But what you are going to get, just like at 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.800 a nice hotel, is drug tested a lot. Um you 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.399 will be I mean maybe every other day for the 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.320 first while, you might be drug tested. Yeah. I think 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.960 that one attorney who was busted and became like a 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.560 drug court advocate. Um, he was drug tested like five 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.399 days a week. Yeah. And again this is tailored to you, 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.639 so it's Uh. One of the things our article points 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:03.639 out is that what happens is is your judge gets 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.800 to know you. Um, and that's kind of the whole 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.000 point is they need to know who you are so 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.720 a they can suss out whether or not you're trying 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.840 to game the system. And they get from what it 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.679 sounds like, they get really good at that kind of reading. 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.520 These people who are like, no, man, I can tell 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.160 this guy is he's just trying to go through drug 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:23.760 courts so we can go out and do drugs again, 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.040 um or this person seems like they really want to 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.160 turn their life around, right, Uh, So they will get 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:34.200 to know these folks and assess like I think they 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.919 need maybe to be tested once a week, and the 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.119 more you test clean, the less you get tested, and 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.880 the more um sort of leeway you have and freedom 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.200 you have as long as you're you know, working those 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.639 steps and completing your program. Right. Okay, So then, like 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.439 I said, though, the coercion thing is the key to 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.919 drug cord, right. The whole point of drug cord is 0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.440 that you can you can go through a program out 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.159 of court, right, and it wouldn't be like like judicially 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.000 mandated or anything like that. But the what the drug 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.040 court advocates are saying is that doesn't work nearly as 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.760 well as the idea that if you don't complete this program, 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.439 you're going to jail. And some drug courts take it 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.080 even further and say, okay, man, here's your choice. You 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.920 can stick with the regular charges, go to normal criminal 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:28.399 court for this you will probably almost certainly do some 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.520 jail time, or you can come try drug court. If 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.240 you succeeded drug court, you won't go to jail. We 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:37.000 may even dismiss the case and make it like this, 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.760 this conviction never even happened. If you fail, not only 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.320 are you going to jail, you're going to do more 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.640 jail time then if you hadn't come into drug court 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.520 at all and just stayed in the regular criminal system. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:51.960 So the coercion there is very strong. And the reason 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.240 that it's there, according to drug court advocates, is because 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.760 that is what helps ensure the success of these treatment 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:03.320 programs and gets people to actually complete them and become 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:06.840 unaddicted to drugs at the end of it, or at 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.920 least started on a path that they can keep up 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:11.920 with for the rest of their lives. Yeah, and this 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.960 I'm like when I said it's a quick program, the 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.959 program isn't quick. They get you going quickly, but this 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.080 doesn't happen over the course of a few months, like 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.280 it seems like. The minimum is is about a year, 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.120 and it can be as long as two years sometimes 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.520 to graduate and prove that you are are drug free 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.000 and committed to being drug free. Right, so you'll have 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.240 like the court all up in your stuff like during 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:38.080 that two years. Right. Some of them are even shorter, 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:43.040 but they're almost men is like an emergency case, like, um, 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.760 you know, somebody's having a mental health crisis. I don't 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:49.639 know if it's federal. I know some states have it. 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.520 At least if it's not a federal law that you 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.600 can you can be locked up for for I think 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.240 seventy two hours against your will if a court says 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.000 this person needs to be emergence, they need emergency mental 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:05.119 health treatment. There are some kind of sub categories of 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.520 drug courts that have been set up to adjust the 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:11.640 opioid crisis. That will will be like a ninety day 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.919 like emergency crash program that's basically meant to keep you 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.520 out of jail but also keep you alive and like 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:23.639 really get your your treatment going. But um, that's like 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:27.239 an additional part to the drug court program because from 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.920 what I saw, it seems like twelve to twenty four 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:33.600 months is pretty normal. Yeah, And and who are these people? 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:38.119 Who are these prosecutors and defense attorneys and judges, And 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.080 in most cases it seems like they are people that 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:46.280 have specifically requested drug court. Um, it doesn't seem like 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:50.000 a lot of people are begrudgingly assigned drug court. They 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:54.280 feel compelled to do so. Maybe a mid career switch 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:56.439 or maybe you know that's what they wanted to do 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.080 to begin with. Um, you know, they feel like to 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:01.199 have a calling to try to help people and not 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:03.560 necessarily just be like I'm gonna be the prosecutor that 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:05.959 like throws a book at everybody, the judge that just 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:10.080 wants to put everybody behind bars. Uh. They definitely have 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:12.600 a more compassionate side than you're probably used to in 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.840 a courtroom. Um. Although I will say most courts, I 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.439 mean I've only been like traffic court and stuff, but 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.720 they have all sorts of you know, traffic court is 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.920 they have a range of people in there, and most 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.439 of the judges I've I've seen in my life have 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:33.200 been kind of the it's sort of harsh with a 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:37.000 heart of gold. Yeah. I've never seen one in person 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.360 that was just like it seemed like a real jerk 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:42.959 that was just intent on running people through the system. 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.960 You know, you make a good point. I think every 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:51.440 every scientific study that involves human subjects should be required 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:55.920 to get their their population sample from traffic court. There's 0:24:56.000 --> 0:25:01.120 no better like perfect cross section of America then like 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.280 a Tuesday morning in traffic Oh man, you ain't kidding. 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:07.960 So that's the rule. Now first science everybody, Yeah, that's 0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:11.760 really true, and you're always like, I feel like every 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:13.399 time I've been to traffic court, which has only been 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.440 two or three times it's been, I'm always feel like 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:21.040 I'm the last person that all day long, and uh, 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:23.840 always envious of the people that are are are up 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.280 there first. But at the end of the day it 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:28.919 ends up being fairly interesting for a dude like me 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:33.600 who just enjoys um watching this sort of experience play out. 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:35.879 Have have you ever been to traffic court and you 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:37.760 were like looking at the cops who showed up, and 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:40.119 you're like, is that the one I think I gave me? Think? 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:42.800 Because you know if they don't if they don't show up, 0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:45.280 they throw out your case supposedly, right, which I'm not 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:47.320 even sure if that's an urban legend or not, But 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:49.720 I don't know if it is. No, I think it 0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:51.680 might depend, but I think that can be the case 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:54.399 for sure. Well, I've never I've never been able to 0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:59.679 perfectly say yes, the cop that gave me the ticket 0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:02.520 is not here, because you know that's because you were 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:08.000 whacked out. They man, I really can't remember. I wasn't 0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.119 even a traffic court. I was like in jail, just 0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:14.320 hallucinating at the time. Um. Yeah, I have heard that, 0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:17.359 because that was the advice I always got. Um was, 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:20.359 all right, you want to plead not guilty just in 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:23.320 case they don't show and then by the time you 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:25.600 you actually get up in front of the judge, if 0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:27.719 they've shown up, you can always change your plea bro. 0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:32.639 And they actually have another Um, they have a diversionary 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.399 court or a diversion court like a side court that 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:38.040 they've set up for a traffic court where you can 0:26:38.119 --> 0:26:42.800 go in plead guilty and then pay like a reduced 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:44.800 fine and you don't have to sit there for the 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:49.200 whole day. And it's really a They just take any 0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:52.359 pretense of trying to keep people safe as the reason 0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:55.480 they give out traffic tickets. Just they completely do away 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:57.600 with it. It's just like there's like a guy wearing 0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:01.119 one of those green brim like bankers caps, you know, 0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:05.440 if you make it fast, Yeah, pretty much exactly. And 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:07.959 and but there's like no public safety aspect to it. 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:10.959 It's just a money making thing. But that actually qualifies 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.400 is like this kind of thing with a drug court. 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:15.880 It's like here's a regular court, here's something else off 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.560 to the side that we're using to to divert people 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:21.359 out of the clogged court system. For sure. Yeah, I 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:24.600 think it's I think everyone should go to court, just 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:26.960 at least once. I want to be on jury duty. 0:27:27.200 --> 0:27:28.760 You know, I got called not too long ago, and 0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:32.200 I didn't they you know, they didn't even call me 0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:36.320 up to be questioned or whatever. I just ended up 0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:38.080 being hanging out all day and then they dismissed a 0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:40.440 whole lot of like the thirty people I was with. 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:43.800 But I'm I'm into it. I would definitely do it. 0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:45.959 I certainly wouldn't want to be tied up for weeks 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:50.560 or what do they call it when you have to question? Yes, 0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:54.000 a question? No way, But but they give you, like case, 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:59.040 you get dinner for free. Yeah, but come on, I 0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:02.159 know would be tickets old after like two or three weeks. 0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:08.159 I think you're right free dinner. Um, all right, So 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:10.560 where were we? We're talking about good judges and bad judges. 0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:13.040 So yeah, everyone's sort of on the same team in 0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:15.040 drug court, which is, let me get to know this person, 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:17.119 let me find the root of their problem, let me 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:20.040 see if we can help them walk this straight and 0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.120 narrow together, which is sounds very hippie dippy. I'm kind 0:28:24.119 --> 0:28:27.640 of surprised this took root in the United States. Yes, so, yeah, 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:32.080 it is simpler or something, right, super Scandinavian. Yeah so 0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:35.840 um so again this is ideally not every judge is 0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.320 going to fit this bill, but drug court judges would 0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:43.080 tend to lean towards this, this personality trait um or 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.200 or act like this more than say your typical criminal 0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:50.640 court judge. Right, so they one of the things that's 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:53.320 expected of them as part of being a drug court judges. 0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:58.240 They are meant to be kind of a social worker 0:28:58.280 --> 0:29:01.080 almost for this person, which is a really weird position 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.120 for a judge being why not just leave it to 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:06.000 the social worker? Well, again, you come back to the coercion, 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.600 right if you. And this is supposed to be built 0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:15.000 into a good, even average drug court program. It treats 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:18.720 addiction as a public health problem, as a chronic disease, 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:21.880 And if you're not familiar with that model of addiction, 0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:25.360 go listen to our addiction episode because it's really interesting. 0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:28.719 But it treats it is like, this is a chronic disease, 0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:32.720 so it's expected that this person is going to probably relapse, 0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:36.680 probably with certainty, depending on the level of their addiction, 0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:41.600 and that is not grounds to wash out of the 0:29:41.600 --> 0:29:44.720 program the first time, or maybe even the second time, 0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:46.760 or maybe even the third time. It's up to the 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.280 judge's discretion. But eventually you get to a point where 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:53.600 the person either washes out of the program or it's 0:29:53.600 --> 0:29:56.840 clear they're not really taking it very seriously, so the 0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:59.880 judge will um issue what's called a flash in carceerrat, 0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:04.040 which means you you showed up to take your drug test, 0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:06.560 it's been four weeks since your lasting court. You're in 0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.360 the program, and you just failed, and the judge is 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:11.640 tired of you failing your drug tests. And the next 0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:14.200 thing you know, you're wearing an orange jumpsuit and spending 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:17.160 the next ten days in jail to kind of like 0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:19.440 snap you out of it and get you serious about 0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:21.640 this thing again. And then over time, eventually you'll just 0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:23.840 you'll wash out, You'll get kicked out of the program 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.120 and end up in criminal court, and you will pick 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:28.160 up where you left off, which is the beginning of 0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:31.600 your trial for whatever the original charges were, right, but 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:35.160 the idea that you can be incarcerated and still remain 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.760 in this program, and given these second and third chances, 0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:41.440 depending on what the judge and the prosecutor and the 0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:46.040 court staff think your level of dedication is. That's you. 0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:47.840 You're not going to find that anywhere else in the 0:30:47.960 --> 0:30:50.920 in the criminal justice system in the United States. No. 0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:53.560 And not only are they do they try and treat 0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:56.400 people for drug abuse, but if you were a victim 0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:59.760 of domestic violence, they will you will go to an 0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:01.479 age see to help you with that. If you they 0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:05.120 work a lot with veterans, um if you suffer from PTSD, 0:31:05.400 --> 0:31:09.360 or if you're just a drug addicted veteran, then they're 0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:11.880 gonna make really sure that they're taking care of you 0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:14.880 and providing you with all the medical and mental health 0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:17.920 benefits that you have. And I love how our article 0:31:17.960 --> 0:31:21.120 says it that you have earned, not even that you 0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:24.120 like deserve, like you have earned this right. And so 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:27.840 this is another just crazy different thing about the drug courts. 0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:31.600 Is imagine that Chuck imagined is basically being like homeless 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:36.080 and addicted to heroin and you're a veteran right to 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:42.000 to have people who have access to computers and emails 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:45.360 and know the phone numbers of the services you're supposed 0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:47.480 to be calling, and know what forms you need to 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:49.640 fill out and then even how to fill out those forms, 0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:52.720 to have access to people who can help you do that, 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:54.920 so that all of a sudden you actually do get 0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:58.360 the benefits that get you off of the street and 0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:01.440 into a treatment program and get the government to help 0:32:01.520 --> 0:32:06.520 pay for it. Like that's that's invaluable. And that's another 0:32:06.600 --> 0:32:10.040 aspect of drug Court is that you they provide those services, 0:32:10.080 --> 0:32:12.440 you have access to those people who are helping you 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:16.640 get those services, or if your child has been taken away, 0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:21.479 they help you navigate them the child welfare system so 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:23.360 that you can go take the classes you need to 0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:26.240 take to get your child back. Um, there's just a 0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:29.480 lot of different services that they offer that they help 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.920 people with two that I think it's just an amazing idea. Yeah, 0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:35.000 and it's it makes sense too because one of the 0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:38.000 big drawback are not drawbacks, but one of the big 0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:41.720 things holding these people back many times is when you're 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:45.280 a heroin addict, you are robbed of any ambition to 0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:50.200 do this yourself. Even if you wake up sober and 0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:51.920 you're like, man, I don't want to live this kind 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:55.920 of life, but you are addicted to this drug. So 0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:57.720 you don't wake up and think, let me go to 0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:00.840 the the local library because they have the internet there 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:03.400 and I can sign up and find out where this 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:05.880 stuff is. And I have no family that's going to 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:09.000 help me do this or I've rejected them, like that 0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:12.440 first step can literally just be the person it's like, yeah, 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:15.880 this is the number I will. You can be driven 0:33:15.920 --> 0:33:19.200 there and dropped off there and that can kick start 0:33:19.360 --> 0:33:24.560 the the process of getting healthy again. Right. So that's 0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:26.720 a huge part of drug court tune. That's a huge 0:33:26.760 --> 0:33:29.040 part of the success of it. So there's this whole 0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:33.440 court system set up there that if you if you 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:35.720 want to take advantage of it, you can get off 0:33:35.760 --> 0:33:38.360 of drugs and you can stay out of jail. And 0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:41.240 the way that it's from what some of the studies 0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:44.360 I've seen, the best role that a judge can play 0:33:44.480 --> 0:33:48.840 is supportive but also stern, not a pushover, but also 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:51.880 just not a blowhard. No, there's no room for blowhards 0:33:51.880 --> 0:33:54.160 in here, but there's also no room for somebody who's 0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.600 just completely being taken advantage of by person after person. Right, 0:33:57.840 --> 0:34:00.120 So you want a nice mix and the judge, but 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:01.800 you also want to Jose is going to listen to 0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:05.320 the other professionals too, uh, and act almost as an 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:08.880 advocate of the person who's who's in it, um. But 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:13.399 they're also meant to kind of create this atmosphere where 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:17.319 you are, you're you're doing this like this, you're this 0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:20.279 is good man, You're I'm this is a respectable thing 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:21.920 that you're doing, and therefore I'm going to treat you 0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:25.759 with the respect that you're earning right now, by right, 0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.840 and rather than confrontation and shame, which apparently has a 0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:34.040 terrible effect on addicts, regardless of whether you're in court 0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:37.040 or in a rehab treatment or whatever. Um. And then 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:39.920 the the end of it is considered like a graduation, 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:41.839 like it's meant to be a big deal, so much 0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:44.319 so that they'll actually bring other people who are in 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:47.960 the program to court on the day that you are 0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:51.200 graduating from the program because they they it's a it's 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:52.959 a it's kind of a big deal, and they treat 0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:56.080 it like a big deal. Exactly, yeah, exactly, And they're 0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:59.320 treated with respect and all these people who they've probably 0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:03.280 become at least, you know, civil with, if not jovial 0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:06.839 and friendly with, over the last like ninety days or 0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:10.200 twelve months or twenty four months, um. To see them 0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:13.160 patting that person on the back. I'm sure that that 0:35:13.760 --> 0:35:17.239 means a lot, you know. Yeah, So the idea that 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:20.480 it's this is it is it just feels really weird 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:23.839 to be talking and not say and of course we 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:28.160 mean Sweden. You know, it is very, very weird. But 0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:33.040 it's out there and it's it's growing like wildfire. All right, Well, 0:35:33.080 --> 0:35:34.839 let's take a break and we will come back and 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:40.120 finish up with um some statistics and some more glowing reviews, 0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:44.120 and then of course the dreaded poopo ing of the 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:48.640 bad side of drug courts right after this that k 0:35:52.960 --> 0:36:09.800 should know my dumbnail large ski. All right, So the 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:13.280 cool thing about these kind of programs, when the government 0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:16.880 is involved in pouring a lot of money into these programs, 0:36:17.000 --> 0:36:20.160 is that there's gonna be a lot of research. And 0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:22.720 there's definitely been a lot of research on drug courts, 0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:27.400 and all data points generally point to the fact that 0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:32.759 it works on a pretty big level. Um, it works. Uh, 0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:38.720 it saves people money and saves taxpayers money. It lowers crime, 0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:42.960 it reduces crime, it lowers the rate of recidivism. Um. 0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:46.480 One bone head word, I think we can agree. So 0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:50.520 let's start with a stat from inside jail in prison 0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:56.680 of offenders in jail in prison abused drug and alcohol 0:36:57.200 --> 0:37:01.520 like while they're in prison, in jail, okay of them 0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:05.400 are clinically addicted. So it is clear that there's a 0:37:05.560 --> 0:37:10.279 really big problem to just sending addicts to jail. Yeah, 0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:13.719 because again, remember not a lot of jails, especially like 0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:18.440 city and county jails, have treatment programs. You're probably in 0:37:18.480 --> 0:37:21.480 a federal penitentiary or a good state pen if you're 0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:23.839 getting a treatment program, and if you're a low level 0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:27.560 drug offender, you're probably not going to state or federal penitentiary. 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:29.880 You're going to city or county jail. Well, yeah, and 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:33.759 sixty of of inmates who seek drug treatment, like if 0:37:33.760 --> 0:37:37.200 they have the program and you just want to seek 0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:42.000 that program while you're in prison, drop out early. Uh. 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:46.000 With the thinking for drug courts being that there's no 0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:49.680 like they're already in jail. There isn't that carrot dangling 0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:54.640 or rather maybe a hammer dangling above their head that said, 0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:57.239 you know, you can avoid jail by doing this. They're 0:37:57.239 --> 0:37:59.280 already in jail, so there's not a lot of incentive. 0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:03.000 So the thing about drug courts is that they they 0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:07.160 apparently change that thing this this article says they reverse 0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:09.200 all these numbers. It's a little glib if you ask me, 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:14.640 but they definitely are in it. They do. So. There 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:18.840 was a UM National Association of Drug Court Professional study, 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:21.240 and there's been other studies that should have shown similar 0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:28.360 UM statistics, but something like UM. The recitativism rate is 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:34.200 like um SI after the first year, after the second year, 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.759 which is far less than what you would find in 0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:41.080 the in the general population for people on probation UM. 0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:43.920 And these are people who have completed the program, which 0:38:43.960 --> 0:38:46.879 is we'll see as a big caveat UM. People who 0:38:47.000 --> 0:38:52.279 are parents in the drug courts tend to their kids, 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:54.960 tend to spend less time in foster care, and their 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:58.400 family is more likely to be reunited after they complete 0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:05.320 the program. UM. What else reduced crime rate compared to alternatives. 0:39:05.520 --> 0:39:09.720 And then another study from the National Institute of Justice 0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:16.239 for Escambia County, Florida, which I believe is Pensacola area UM. 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:21.440 They said the felony rearrest rate there was lowered. So 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:25.160 there's a lot of a lot of statistics that really 0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:30.880 seemed to show that this works, including reducing prison population 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:36.520 which saves the state's money. Making it making improving employment opportunities, 0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:40.680 which would give more tax revenue. Uh, And so it 0:39:40.840 --> 0:39:44.839 seems like it's all like a no brainer. Why would 0:39:44.840 --> 0:39:48.399 anyone have a problem with us? Well, here, here's why 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:53.680 I didn't get this Drug Policy Alliance when fully did you? Yes? 0:39:54.120 --> 0:39:56.880 All right, what's the deal there? So one of the 0:39:56.960 --> 0:39:59.520 things that drug courts do is they take the war 0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:01.960 on drug ugs from the supply side, which means like 0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:07.640 invading Mexico, to the demand side, which means busting users. Right, 0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:10.800 and drug cord is just basically a new iteration of 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:13.520 the idea of busting a user, but rather than just 0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:15.640 busting them again and again and again in the hopes 0:40:15.680 --> 0:40:19.719 that they'll eventually give up on drugs, they this is 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:22.120 to cure them of their addiction to drug It's the 0:40:22.239 --> 0:40:25.040 court intervening, but it's still the same thing. And the 0:40:25.239 --> 0:40:28.080 Drug Policy Alliance is like, this is, we don't need 0:40:28.120 --> 0:40:32.000 to be doubling down on busting low level users and addicts. 0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:34.160 We need to treat it strictly as a public health thing. 0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:37.120 And if you are busted with a small amount of drugs, 0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:39.480 you shouldn't ever go to jail like it should be 0:40:39.600 --> 0:40:43.439 decriminalized and what they're saying is that this this whole 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:45.680 thing is like a whole new direction, a whole new 0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:49.960 push that's just keeping us from decriminalizing low amounts of drugs, 0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:53.920 which the Drug Policy Alliance says is best practices. All right, 0:40:54.000 --> 0:40:56.479 that makes sense. Uh, And then you send a really 0:40:56.560 --> 0:41:00.520 interesting article, Um, what was that was that the Atlantic? No, 0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:04.839 it was a Pacific standard. It was the Pacific. It's 0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:08.719 the Atlantic of the of the West Coast. Yeah, that 0:41:08.800 --> 0:41:12.040 one was really interesting because they paint are not paint. 0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:14.520 But they kind of tell another side of the story 0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:20.400 through a few examples of real people, which is, all right, 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.160 let's say my son or daughter is addicted to heroin 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:27.520 and they go through like what you talked about, like 0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:31.000 the flash incarceration, Like, hey, you came in here and 0:41:31.080 --> 0:41:34.279 tested positive. Um, so I'm just gonna go ahead and 0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:36.919 throw you right back in the slammer for ten days. 0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:40.239 What's happening is is a lot of these people, and 0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:42.439 it depends on the drug, but especially in the case 0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:46.080 of heroin and opioids, is they're putting people in back 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:49.719 in jail very quickly who are in the middle of 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:55.120 going cold Turkey, right, So that's not a good situation 0:41:55.360 --> 0:42:00.239 and kind of round me across the board. Medical professions 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:05.160 have agreed that that methodone and what was the other drug? Oh, 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:09.400 I can't, I couldn't, uh like benzer. Let's just say 0:42:09.440 --> 0:42:12.920 method because most people know that one. That methodone is 0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:16.839 like an essential medicine if you are trying to kick 0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:20.920 an opioid or heroin habit and under the terms of 0:42:21.920 --> 0:42:25.440 of a drug court, you can't use methodone even right, 0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:30.000 So they they found that fifty percent of drug courts 0:42:30.080 --> 0:42:34.640 in the US have an outright ban on what's called 0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:37.759 maintenance and the idea behind matenes and like you said, 0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:41.960 it's like the medical community says this is the best practice. 0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:46.040 If you're addicted to heroin or opioids, you go get 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.799 what's called a maintenance dose, where you get a little 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:53.040 dose of something like methodone, and you get it every 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:55.360 day at the same time, every day, the same amount, 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:57.880 and you get your body so used to this that 0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.799 you're no longer getting high. But it keeps you from 0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:05.280 going out and getting high because you are no longer 0:43:05.400 --> 0:43:08.480 have that craving, you're not drug seeking anymore. And apparently 0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:11.680 they compare it to like being on prozac that you 0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:14.000 can go out, have a job, have a high stress job, 0:43:14.120 --> 0:43:17.359 live a normal life and beyond methodone, this maintenance dose 0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:21.319 of Method methodone and and not get ever get back 0:43:21.400 --> 0:43:24.800 on heroin. Well fifty of drug courts say no, this 0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:28.560 is an abstinence based court court. To be part of it, 0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:32.680 you can't trust, you can't um test positive for drugs, 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:36.120 and therefore you can't be on methodone. And so what 0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:38.520 they're doing is if you if you wash out of 0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:40.960 this court system, whether they kick you in the jail 0:43:41.040 --> 0:43:43.640 or say you're out of drug court and you've been 0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:46.480 you haven't been on methodone, but you have been off 0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:49.520 of heroin. When you get back on it, what used 0:43:49.520 --> 0:43:52.840 to be just a normal dose to you could kill you. 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:55.840 That's just what happens with your body when you're in withdrawals. 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:58.719 So it's like these drug courts that are abstinence based 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:02.200 drug courts are setting you up to overdose on heroin 0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:05.879 if you don't follow this program strictly right, And they're 0:44:05.920 --> 0:44:08.799 what they're saying is like judges are judges who don't 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:12.960 listen to the medical community's best practices are that's a 0:44:13.080 --> 0:44:17.400 very dangerous situation. Yeah, because you're I mean, they know 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:22.000 that you're super at risk for uh, for relapse, and 0:44:22.080 --> 0:44:24.120 then once you're in there for ten days and you're 0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:26.840 cold Turkey and you're clean, then then you are also, 0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:30.719 like you said, significant risk for overdosing and possibly dying. 0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:36.080 So again, it seems to be specifically with like heroin 0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:39.000 and opioids, which is, you know, maybe the biggest problem 0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:41.680 in our country right now drug wise anyway, So I'm 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:46.240 not discounting that, but especially in these cases, it seems 0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:50.160 like drug courts need to at least be uh. They're 0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:52.040 not saying drug courts are bad, but they need to 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:55.600 h they need to maybe work with the medical community 0:44:55.600 --> 0:44:58.560 a little more when it comes to heroin and opioids 0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:01.839 as the best practice forgetting these people clean, because that's 0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:03.880 the goal, right And a lot of them do. A 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:08.920 lot of them do allow for medication and maintenance. That's 0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:12.080 good to know. I thought it was rare what that 0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:16.120 that they allow for maintenance. Oh yeah, no, like like 0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:20.920 a lot of them do, say none whatsoever. Um, but yeah, 0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:22.440 a lot of them do. Some of them though the 0:45:22.520 --> 0:45:26.399 other fifty some are on certain basis bases like if 0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:30.160 you're a pregnant woman, they'll let you do a methodone 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:34.080 treatment or something like that. Um, there's it's not like 0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:37.759 half let you and half don't. It's half don't and 0:45:37.840 --> 0:45:40.560 then some of the other half let just anybody like 0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:44.560 maybe twenty just openly allows it. But that that is 0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:48.920 the way to cure somebody of heroin and denying them 0:45:49.320 --> 0:45:52.879 that is it's just not it's ill informed. Well yeah, 0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:55.319 and very sadly. I mean it is anecdotal. I don't 0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:58.000 know what kind of um big studies they have on this, 0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:01.479 but you know, they sold very specific stories about people 0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:06.360 that went through drug court were released and overdosed and 0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:10.040 died because their body couldn't take what, like you said, 0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:13.560 was a week and a half ago a normal dose. Right, 0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:16.759 it's very sad. And then again there's the other there's 0:46:16.760 --> 0:46:19.239 the other aspect where it's like they they are you know, 0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:22.080 since they can select who comes into drug court, they're 0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:26.120 selecting people who are going to likely graduate and let 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:28.920 their make their drug court look even better. And so 0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:32.040 they're going to pick first time or scared kids who 0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:34.279 who are like, my whole life is going to be 0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:37.200 ruined if I end up in jail, um, who will 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:40.759 probably see the program through. And so that means that 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:43.320 the data is kind of cherry picked, you know, like 0:46:43.640 --> 0:46:47.680 like these recentativism rates, those are for people who complete 0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:50.400 the program. For people who wash out of the program, 0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:54.680 they're actually worse off than the people who were similar 0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:58.000 criminals under the same circumstances that just kept going through 0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:01.560 criminal court because they ended up with more prison time, 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:03.480 more jail time than they would have had if they 0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.839 just stuck the criminal court. So there's definitely some criticisms 0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:08.879 of it. It can be done better, but it does 0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:12.440 seem like there are some courts out there that actually 0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:16.440 do follow like these ideal best practices models. It's just 0:47:16.600 --> 0:47:19.839 there's just so much leeway that it's different from court 0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:22.439 to court, and it just depends on the judge. Really, 0:47:22.800 --> 0:47:25.600 you need Harry Anderson in there, sure you do. All 0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:28.760 those judges need to learn at least three card tricks 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:34.120 and look good in black. You you got anything else? 0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:37.480 I got nothing else? I don't either. So let's see. 0:47:37.480 --> 0:47:39.200 If you want to know more about drug courts, you 0:47:39.320 --> 0:47:42.040 can search those words on the search bar hou stuffts 0:47:42.080 --> 0:47:43.719 dot com. And since I said that it's time for 0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:48.839 listener mail, I'm gonna call this what will be one 0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:52.960 of two North Korea responses in this in a subsequent recording. 0:47:53.719 --> 0:47:55.360 We got a lot of good feedback about that episode. 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:59.799 I was pretty stoked. I was two. I was nervous. Um. Hey, guys, 0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:04.600 was able. Uh, this is from Ken in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. 0:48:04.640 --> 0:48:06.839 He said, I've enjoying your show for a while. Now 0:48:06.840 --> 0:48:09.800 I wanted to toss a stone to your North Korean pond. 0:48:10.320 --> 0:48:11.960 I was able to visit the d m Z. While 0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:14.319 I was there for a while, he told a story 0:48:14.400 --> 0:48:16.320 why he was there. But he was able to go 0:48:16.400 --> 0:48:18.080 to the d m Z, and he said it was fascinating. 0:48:18.280 --> 0:48:20.400 I thought it was funny that each side built super 0:48:20.480 --> 0:48:23.560 tall flagpoles to be just a little taller than the other, 0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:27.240 and also made modifications to their buildings on either side 0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:30.040 of the blue huts to also be taller and more 0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:33.320 imposing than the other. South Korea actually trains their d 0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:37.000 MZ guards stand watch and the most imposing stance possible. 0:48:38.680 --> 0:48:40.200 One more thing I'll share is the talk I had 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:42.799 with my Korean co teachers. I asked him what they 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:45.719 felt about reunification, and the universal answer was that there 0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:48.960 should be one united Korea and they hope to see 0:48:49.000 --> 0:48:52.520 it happened soon. The lone dissenter was a woman. He said, 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:54.719 she recognized how difficult that process would be, and she 0:48:54.800 --> 0:48:57.120 didn't think it would be good for the country. And 0:48:57.200 --> 0:48:59.880 the other teachers heard this co workers opinion, they all 0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:02.960 looked at her like she had just poured mayonnaise on 0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:07.239 the kimchi. That sounds delicious to me. I don't know 0:49:07.320 --> 0:49:10.000 what the is there? If there were, the Japanese mayonnaise 0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:12.840 made me yeah, exactly. Oh man, what was that stuff 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:17.239 that was so good? Qps and more of that please? Uh. 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:20.680 They couldn't believe she wasn't for reunification. Your culture is 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:24.360 less individual individualistic than ours, so they often altered the 0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:27.040 party line on such things, but she did not anyway. 0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:30.359 Thank you for turning my long drives and monotonous tasks 0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:33.920 into opportunities to think and learn. My wife and I 0:49:34.040 --> 0:49:37.319 in most evenings talking about our days and how they went, 0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:40.200 and I often discussed the topics on your show because 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:44.040 that's what I've been contemplate. Ken from Lancaster p A. 0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:46.600 Thanks a lot. Ken. Say hi to the Amish out 0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:49.680 there for us because they don't listen to our podcasts. Yeah, 0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:53.040 give him an give him an iPhone. The world there 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:55.839 was one thing that Um I wanted to mention. There 0:49:55.840 --> 0:49:58.360 are actually two things in that episode that I forgot 0:49:58.440 --> 0:50:01.640 to mention. One was the nineteen seventies six Acts attack 0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:05.640 of North Korean guards against South Korean guards? Did you 0:50:05.719 --> 0:50:09.960 hear about that? Like killed by a hatchet for goodness sake? Right? Um? 0:50:10.200 --> 0:50:13.080 And then the current president was on the team who 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:15.719 came out after that and finished cutting down the tree 0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:18.640 that the South Korean guards were originally doing. And then 0:50:19.040 --> 0:50:21.640 the other thing is that North Korea holds the Mass 0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:24.520 Games and they hold it in like this, it's like 0:50:24.640 --> 0:50:27.080 their own personal Olympics, and they hold it in a 0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:30.640 hundred and fifty thousand person stadium. And there's a I 0:50:30.719 --> 0:50:35.080 think it's a national geographic documentary about this girl who's 0:50:35.080 --> 0:50:37.120 a gymnast or a dancer or something like that. I 0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:39.960 can't remember, but it's her training for the mass Games. 0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:44.600 It's a great documentary. Check it out. Okay, thanks a lot, Ken, 0:50:45.000 --> 0:50:48.719 thank you Chuck for letting me talk, and thank you 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:50.480 for listening. And if you want to get in touch 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:52.520 with us, you can tweek to us. So I'm at 0:50:52.640 --> 0:50:55.120 josh um Clark. We're both at s Y s K 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:58.400 podcast and Chuck is at movie Crush. Chuck's also on 0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:01.279 Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. Chuck's on 0:51:01.440 --> 0:51:04.600 Facebook dot com, slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and slash 0:51:04.640 --> 0:51:06.800 Stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email 0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:09.239 to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and 0:51:09.280 --> 0:51:11.480 it's always joined usutter home on the web, Stuff you 0:51:11.520 --> 0:51:18.640 Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands 0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:21.040 of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com.