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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, tour announcement, it's just me. Chuck. Josh isn't

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Speaker 1: here for this one. We had to get it out

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Speaker 1: the door. So apologies for fifty of stuff you should know.

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Speaker 1: But we have added two dates to uh the two

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Speaker 1: thousand eighteen tour, and there may be another couple to come.

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Speaker 1: You never know. But everybody we asked Salt Lake City

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Speaker 1: ins and Utahn's should we come there, and boy, we

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Speaker 1: heard from you, so we're coming. It is that easy.

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Speaker 1: Tuesday October, we are coming to Salt Lake City for

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Speaker 1: an evening with stuff you should know at the Grand

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Speaker 1: Theater and we are super excited. I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: You guys really came through on the emails and social

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Speaker 1: meds and let us know that we would see some

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Speaker 1: love if we came to Salt Lake City, a city

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Speaker 1: we've talked about often in the past. So we are

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Speaker 1: a coming Tuesday, October twenty three, and we decided, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be out there, we might as well add

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Speaker 1: another city that we've never been to. So it is

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Speaker 1: your lucky day, Phoenix eras Zona and dare I say,

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Speaker 1: Tucson and in the Greater Phoenix area drive over to

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Speaker 1: Phoenix and come see us on Wednesday October at the

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Speaker 1: Van Buren. And this is also an evening with Stuff

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Speaker 1: you Should Know. I don't even know what that means,

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Speaker 1: but it sounds a little more regal than normal. So

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Speaker 1: come see us October Salt Lake City and Phoenix. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I don't even know if tickets are

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Speaker 1: on sale. I believe by the time this announcement goes up,

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Speaker 1: tickets will be on sale, and you can go to

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Speaker 1: the Van Buren website or to the Grand Theater website

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Speaker 1: to get your ticket links. I will try and have

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Speaker 1: them up very soon on s y s K live

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Speaker 1: dot com, but I don't know if I'll get to

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Speaker 1: that today, but look forward soon and we can't wait

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Speaker 1: to see you, guys. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know

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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,

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Speaker 1: and we've got guest producer Tristan with us today. Ye

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Speaker 1: who's filling in for Jerry who may or may not exist.

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Speaker 1: Tristan exists. Look at him. He shaved his mustache. I know,

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Speaker 1: and Chuck, he shaved his mustache. Within a day of

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Speaker 1: me telling him how cool it was next time I

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Speaker 1: saw him, no mustache. Interesting, Yeah, that's what I thought too.

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Speaker 1: What's that all about, Tristan? That's cool, that's probably the

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Speaker 1: appropriate response to that one. Yeah, but he's I noticed.

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Speaker 1: You can't even look at in the eye right now.

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Speaker 1: So no, luckily we're sitting beside one another, not facing

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Speaker 1: one another. Else to be really weird for the next

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Speaker 1: two hours. Pulls a knife. You'll know that because I

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Speaker 1: just run from the room. Okay, that'll be the signal.

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Speaker 1: All right, sounds good. So let's say that Tristan pulled

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Speaker 1: the knife on me and I had nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with the fact that I complimented slash ruined his mustache. Um,

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Speaker 1: let's say that it was because he was a drug

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Speaker 1: addled lunatic. Okay, like he was literally attracted to the

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Speaker 1: moon and he was on drugs and he pulled a knife. Um,

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Speaker 1: had I got my phone out in time and called

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Speaker 1: nine one one and the cops had shown up, you know,

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Speaker 1: immediately and arrested him. Tristan could have been up for

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Speaker 1: what's known as chuck a drug court. Yeah and wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: that was now my best in trove. No, that was

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Speaker 1: good of the ten years, but it was in the

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Speaker 1: top sadly, Okay, so that means in the like about

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Speaker 1: I can't even do math right now? So what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with your brain? I went to a show last night,

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Speaker 1: so I'm I'm I didn't even drink much. I'm just tired.

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Speaker 1: Who'd you go see? Calexico? Oh? Really? Boys? Yeah? What else?

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Speaker 1: Are they? An? Iron and Wine? Well they did a

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Speaker 1: they did a record with with them, That's what it was.

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Speaker 1: But they're not in them, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: So they did it. They did a joint jam together,

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Speaker 1: they did, and I'm a little I'm just tired as

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Speaker 1: a result. Okay, well let me set it up again, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay. Well, here's the thing is, did

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Speaker 1: you uh did you really know about drug courts? I

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Speaker 1: mean it was something that I was aware of. I

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Speaker 1: don't sit and think about different types of courts much, um,

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Speaker 1: and I've never been through drug court, but I I

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Speaker 1: guess I knew it was there. I didn't know this

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Speaker 1: much about it, and I certainly, I gotta say I've

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Speaker 1: never run across a more glowing review of drug courts

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Speaker 1: among anything in the media, and the media really loves

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Speaker 1: drug courts, but apparently how stuff works heart drug courts

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Speaker 1: like crazy. Yeah, I did not specifically know what it was.

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Speaker 1: I did a brief little skim when I picked up

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Speaker 1: the article, but I thought when I saw drug courts,

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Speaker 1: I was very naive and I was like, oh that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the are just like courts set up just

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Speaker 1: to run people into jail as fast as possible. Oh

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Speaker 1: I see, I see, you know, like just let's turn

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Speaker 1: and burn like a hundred cases a day and just

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Speaker 1: throw people in the slammer. But it turns out it

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Speaker 1: is the exact opposite of that. Yeah, it is, and

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Speaker 1: turning burn this is like top gun. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I am dangerous. So no, it's it's meant to be

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Speaker 1: the exact opposite and ideally, and it sounds like there

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Speaker 1: are some actually really really good, ideal drug courts out there.

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Speaker 1: It is it's meant to do the opposite. It's meant

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, man, you're a criminal. Let's not kid

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Speaker 1: ourselves here, but you're a criminal really because you're addicted

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Speaker 1: to drugs. You're addict first in a criminal second, right,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe a family member, fourth or fifth. But

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Speaker 1: you kind of put that on the back burner during

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Speaker 1: your drug career. Right, So, so you you're on drugs

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Speaker 1: and you're you're committing crimes and even more to the point,

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Speaker 1: and this is how it kind of got its towards you,

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Speaker 1: in which we'll get to in a second. I've seen

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Speaker 1: you before. I recognize your face. That's how bad this

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Speaker 1: situation is. You're clogging up the court system. I I've

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Speaker 1: got like a serial killer behind you who's like getting

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Speaker 1: very impatient. Frankly, we need to move this along, save

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Speaker 1: some money. Let's figure out if there's another way, um

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Speaker 1: that we can we can do this that actually helps you,

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Speaker 1: but that also helps society and saves costs, and that

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Speaker 1: came in the form of drug courts. Yeah, so should

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Speaker 1: we should we get in our our low rider, our

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Speaker 1: low rider way back machine and and drive back to

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Speaker 1: the the late eighties and Dade County, Florida. So first

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Speaker 1: I bought us matching pastel suits. I appreciate that to

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Speaker 1: where put it on, it's on, it's puffy, it looks

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Speaker 1: like what's that grepe paper? Crepe paper? Yeah, or fish skin?

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Speaker 1: All right, So we're in Miami Dade County. Um, we're

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Speaker 1: in our are metallic purple Lowrider. We're driving around and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people on crack. It's hid the

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Speaker 1: crack epidemic, right, and people are being run through, Like

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Speaker 1: you said, these courts so often, and these jails are

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Speaker 1: so clogged because these drug addicts are being run through there.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they are dealing drugs, maybe sometimes they're committing crimes,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes they're just people who had drugs on them

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Speaker 1: and are very sadly addicted to crack cocaine. To the

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Speaker 1: point like where what you said, which is these these

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Speaker 1: judges are saying, man, you've been in here five times

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Speaker 1: in the last six months, and this is no good.

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Speaker 1: There's got to be a better way, right, So some

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Speaker 1: judges actually got together and they said, let's let's make

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Speaker 1: a better way. And they I don't know exactly how

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Speaker 1: they did this. They couldn't find the um full story

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Speaker 1: on it, like whose singular idea it was, or how

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Speaker 1: they actually went about establishing it. I guess they they

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Speaker 1: the municipal court system gives these judges a tremendous amount

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Speaker 1: of leeway and setting up courts on their own apparently.

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Speaker 1: But in Miami Dade County, the judges got together and said,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna set up what what will be the nation's

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Speaker 1: first drug court. Actually I found out who the very

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Speaker 1: first person it was, judge drug. Oh that's what it

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Speaker 1: was named for. What a coincidence? Don't that weird? Judge

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Speaker 1: crack cocaine. But there was there's an interesting story in

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Speaker 1: our our own article that we should probably highlight about

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Speaker 1: this attorney, David Scott Marcus, that I thought was pretty interesting,

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Speaker 1: and he was in He was an attorney on drugs.

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Speaker 1: He was arrested drug possession, leaving the scene him an accident.

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Speaker 1: His defense attorney. So, so, wait, you just painted a

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Speaker 1: picture that I think screams Porsche. Yeah, yeah, I probably had,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of like the coolest car.

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Speaker 1: Time is it the one? It looked kind of like

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Speaker 1: a Lotus submarine bond low to submarine. It had like

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Speaker 1: the pointiest end, pointiest front. M it's the one from

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Speaker 1: Risky Business. Not familiar. I think that's all right, and

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, so be it. Porsche. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to google that stuff right now. But he was a

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Speaker 1: defense attorney and a successful one too, and he was

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Speaker 1: assigned to drug court. His attorney said, can we can

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Speaker 1: we put this guy in drug court and his his

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Speaker 1: quote in this article says, it wasn't an arrest, it

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Speaker 1: was a rescue and he was in his mid thirties.

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Speaker 1: Um went up in front of Judge Stanley Goldstein drug

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Speaker 1: and apparently like this is this is kind of a

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Speaker 1: great success story of a drug court situation because this

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Speaker 1: guy turned his life around, committed to this program, went

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Speaker 1: to the twelve step meetings, and is now a successful

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Speaker 1: attorney again trying to steer his clients to drug courts

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Speaker 1: because it works so well for him. Right, And that's

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Speaker 1: actually one of the ways you can be steered toward

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Speaker 1: a drug court is your attorney, your defense attorney can

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Speaker 1: go to the judge it when when you're busted and

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Speaker 1: say this person is a really great candidate for for

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Speaker 1: drug court. Judge can say I agree, let's do this

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Speaker 1: and kick you over the drug court. Yeah. So this

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Speaker 1: one in Miami was the first one. It was sort

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Speaker 1: of the pilot program, I guess, and uh, by most

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Speaker 1: measures and well we'll talk, We'll save the poop pooing

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Speaker 1: until the very end. How about that? That sounds okay? Um,

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Speaker 1: But it was looked at as a success and then

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Speaker 1: all around the country, they started emulating this program to

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Speaker 1: the tune of today. There says in our article there's

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Speaker 1: more than three thousand of these set up in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, it seems to be hovering just over

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Speaker 1: three thousand. I think I saw three thousand, fifty seven,

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Speaker 1: three thousand seventy six, so it seems to have topped

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Speaker 1: out at about three thousands. Although there is a two

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Speaker 1: thousand seventeen memo or I guess advisory from the Commission

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Speaker 1: on Combating Drug Addiction and the Opioid Crisis, and it

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Speaker 1: recommended this is ye two seventeen, late late two seventeen,

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Speaker 1: that every district in the US established a drug court.

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Speaker 1: So it's possible there will be more in the future.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many districts are. Maybe there's three

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Speaker 1: thousand eighty two. Maybe we're almost there. But they're like,

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Speaker 1: come on, you guys, just just let's make it a

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Speaker 1: h Yeah. So, like you were saying, it can come

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Speaker 1: from the defense attorney, but it can also be a prosecutor.

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Speaker 1: It can be the cop who arrested you. Um. The

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Speaker 1: way I look at this is it seems like everyone

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Speaker 1: sort of it's like a team effort. It's it's set

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Speaker 1: up in a way so it's not adversarial. It's not

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Speaker 1: like the prosecutor and the defense attorney are fighting each

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Speaker 1: other in this case, and the judge, like everyone's sort

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Speaker 1: of kind of gets on the same side to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: le's see if we can straighten this person out. Right.

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Speaker 1: Not only is it not ever cereal and a drug court,

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor and the defense attorney are required to hold

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Speaker 1: hands throughout the entire hearing. I know, and Bobby mcferron,

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Speaker 1: right besides, as the bailiff, instead of swearing on the Bible,

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Speaker 1: you just think, don't worry, be happy. That's the same time,

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Speaker 1: and then everybody goes they clap and go drug court.

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Speaker 1: At the end of every session, we should probably yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's take a break. That's why Skoddy should know. Should

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Speaker 1: I go large? I was sk okay. So Bobby mcfarren

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Speaker 1: has just left the room. Oh and court is starting, Yes,

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Speaker 1: court is started. You know who would have been a

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Speaker 1: great drug court judge is Harry Stone r I p yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's it just recently passed. He was not an

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Speaker 1: old man, no, and by all accounts a really good guy.

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Speaker 1: When all the oh yeah people started pouring out their stories.

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Speaker 1: He was It seems like he was a really good dude.

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Speaker 1: He did this some really heartfelt, like very moving one

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Speaker 1: man show um right after Hurricane Katrina that you can

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Speaker 1: as probably on YouTube, if not on like Netflix or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Um. That was about, you know, all

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Speaker 1: the horrible things that happened from the flooding and just

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Speaker 1: the humanitarian crisis that arose. It was pretty great. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't know who he is, people, then

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Speaker 1: we are referencing the great, great show Night Work from

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Speaker 1: the eighties. I would say, one great wow, build him up,

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Speaker 1: and he knocked them down. No. I thought he was

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Speaker 1: accused a great individual, but the show itself was one great,

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Speaker 1: not great great, so Harry the great great Harry ins

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Speaker 1: and was limited by his the bad writing to one

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Speaker 1: great there you go. But but he his character specifically

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Speaker 1: from this this explanation of drug courts and what what

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Speaker 1: is expected of drug court judges, it is exactly what

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Speaker 1: he did. Like he was compassionate towards the person. He

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Speaker 1: wanted to know what their backstory was. He would recognize

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Speaker 1: them by sight, sometimes by name. Every once a while

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Speaker 1: he would lighten the move with the magic trick. Um.

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Speaker 1: Maybe take away the magic trick part. But all of

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Speaker 1: those things are boxes that a drug court judge is

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Speaker 1: supposed to check. It is nothing like what normal court is. Like, yeah, correct,

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Speaker 1: which is why it's let's sitcom right, it's it's more

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Speaker 1: like night court than regular court drug court is. That's right.

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Speaker 1: So all right, how it's how it works is very

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Speaker 1: dependent on what court it is, because as everyone knows

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Speaker 1: it's it's works on the state level, and then like

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Speaker 1: the city or county or municipality level as far as

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Speaker 1: how they want to structure their own scene. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: people that only people that have didn't have like a

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Speaker 1: violent crime um committed in the course of their drug use.

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Speaker 1: I saw that that was a federal funding requirement that

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Speaker 1: really you couldn't also be up on violent crime charges.

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Speaker 1: So like so like if you shot somebody in the

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Speaker 1: kneecap while you're robbing them for drug money, you're probably

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Speaker 1: not going to get kicked at drug court. Well, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes if you have dealt drugs, you're not allowed in

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Speaker 1: the drug court. That's another one. To a lot of

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Speaker 1: them tend to pick first time offenders um, people who

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Speaker 1: are new to the court system. If you are caught

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Speaker 1: on like possession charges or something like that, and there's

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Speaker 1: a drug court in the county that you're in or

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Speaker 1: the municipality that you're in, there's probably a hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten percent chance they will recommend drug court for you. Right.

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Speaker 1: And then sometimes they will have the defendant sign a

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Speaker 1: contract saying, you know, I'm on board with this. I'm

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Speaker 1: actually signing my name on this document. Um. Sometimes they'll

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Speaker 1: even uh, they'll even have to plead guilty. Right. So

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Speaker 1: there's two ways that it can go. One is that

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Speaker 1: they say we have you. You are you've been indicted

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Speaker 1: and charged with possession of crack cocaine right right, And um,

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Speaker 1: if if you go to regular court, you will probably

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Speaker 1: get sentenced. Here's what your jail time might be. Um,

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Speaker 1: but we are offering for you to go to drug

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Speaker 1: court instead. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna

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Speaker 1: defer these charges against you pending your graduation from this

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Speaker 1: drug court program. We'll get more into the program in

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Speaker 1: a second. But it's hanging out there as as a potential, Like,

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Speaker 1: but if you don't, then this is what's waiting for you. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's not like everybody's just gonna forget about it. After

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Speaker 1: you go to drug court, right, Like, this is this

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Speaker 1: is one of the things, right, So coercion is the

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Speaker 1: key to drug court, right. Um. The other way that

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00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 1: they can do it is they can say you have

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Speaker 1: to plead guilty to this charge, and if you go

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Speaker 1: to drug court and graduate successfully, you will the judge

291
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,200
Speaker 1: will either dismiss your sentence or they might even expunge

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00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 1: the them the conviction from your from your permanent record. Yes,

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00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 1: I was trying to remember my violent femmes. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: here's the other thing that's that's different than regular court

295
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 1: is this is all done very fast. Um. It's not

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Speaker 1: like you're hung up for weeks and months trying to

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Speaker 1: figure this out. Because their whole deal is as you

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Speaker 1: you walk in there addicted to drugs, and they want

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Speaker 1: to get you treatment as soon as possible, right, so

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Speaker 1: in patient or outpatient. So so like within days of

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Speaker 1: an arrest, you could be in treatment. Yes, which is

302
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 1: again if you go to normal jail, that is not

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Speaker 1: what happens. Most jails don't offer treatment. Um, treatment programs.

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Speaker 1: Some do, but a lot of them don't. So if

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Speaker 1: you go to jail, your treatment is either going cold

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00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,639
Speaker 1: Turkey or just doing a bunch of drugs in jail. Right.

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00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 1: This is this is meant to say, Okay, we're going

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00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 1: to actually keep you out of jail. You're not going

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Speaker 1: to jail right now, but you're going into this treatment program.

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Speaker 1: And like you said, it could be impatient or outpatient.

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Speaker 1: It can be public funded treatment, or it could be

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00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 1: a private like treatment hospital like a rehab center. Right.

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Speaker 1: And all of this stuff is is hammered out on

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Speaker 1: a case by case basis. So you are recommended by

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Speaker 1: either the your your attorney or a judge that sees

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00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: you in the criminal court might say you do better

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00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 1: in drug court. The arresting officer apparently can can recommend

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Speaker 1: drug court, and then they look at you as an

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Speaker 1: individual and they look at your individual case and then

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Speaker 1: they decide what is the best way to handle your case.

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Speaker 1: And there is definitely like a structure in a program

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Speaker 1: that every drug court is going to have have, but

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of room from what I understand, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of room and a lot of leeway for

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00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: them to almost personally tailor your drug cord experience to

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Speaker 1: make it as successful as possible. And this is the

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00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 1: ideal version. Again, I know that we're holding off on

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00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,880
Speaker 1: poo pooing as you can see chuck on biting clear

329
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 1: through my lower lip right now. But um, this is

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Speaker 1: the ideal version and it it it does exist in

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Speaker 1: some places. Yes, it's tailor made. It's like a pillow

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Speaker 1: menu at a nice hotel. Actually it's nothing like that.

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Speaker 1: But what you are going to get, just like at

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00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 1: a nice hotel, is drug tested a lot. Um you

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00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,399
Speaker 1: will be I mean maybe every other day for the

336
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 1: first while, you might be drug tested. Yeah. I think

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00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 1: that one attorney who was busted and became like a

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00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: drug court advocate. Um, he was drug tested like five

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00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 1: days a week. Yeah. And again this is tailored to you,

340
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,639
Speaker 1: so it's Uh. One of the things our article points

341
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 1: out is that what happens is is your judge gets

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00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: to know you. Um, and that's kind of the whole

343
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: point is they need to know who you are so

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00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: a they can suss out whether or not you're trying

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Speaker 1: to game the system. And they get from what it

346
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,679
Speaker 1: sounds like, they get really good at that kind of reading.

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00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: These people who are like, no, man, I can tell

348
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,160
Speaker 1: this guy is he's just trying to go through drug

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Speaker 1: courts so we can go out and do drugs again,

350
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Speaker 1: um or this person seems like they really want to

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Speaker 1: turn their life around, right, Uh, So they will get

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00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 1: to know these folks and assess like I think they

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Speaker 1: need maybe to be tested once a week, and the

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Speaker 1: more you test clean, the less you get tested, and

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Speaker 1: the more um sort of leeway you have and freedom

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Speaker 1: you have as long as you're you know, working those

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Speaker 1: steps and completing your program. Right. Okay, So then, like

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Speaker 1: I said, though, the coercion thing is the key to

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Speaker 1: drug cord, right. The whole point of drug cord is

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Speaker 1: that you can you can go through a program out

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Speaker 1: of court, right, and it wouldn't be like like judicially

362
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: mandated or anything like that. But the what the drug

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00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: court advocates are saying is that doesn't work nearly as

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Speaker 1: well as the idea that if you don't complete this program,

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Speaker 1: you're going to jail. And some drug courts take it

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Speaker 1: even further and say, okay, man, here's your choice. You

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Speaker 1: can stick with the regular charges, go to normal criminal

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Speaker 1: court for this you will probably almost certainly do some

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Speaker 1: jail time, or you can come try drug court. If

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Speaker 1: you succeeded drug court, you won't go to jail. We

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00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 1: may even dismiss the case and make it like this,

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00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 1: this conviction never even happened. If you fail, not only

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Speaker 1: are you going to jail, you're going to do more

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Speaker 1: jail time then if you hadn't come into drug court

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Speaker 1: at all and just stayed in the regular criminal system.

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00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: So the coercion there is very strong. And the reason

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00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: that it's there, according to drug court advocates, is because

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00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: that is what helps ensure the success of these treatment

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00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: programs and gets people to actually complete them and become

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Speaker 1: unaddicted to drugs at the end of it, or at

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00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: least started on a path that they can keep up

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00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: with for the rest of their lives. Yeah, and this

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00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm like when I said it's a quick program, the

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00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,959
Speaker 1: program isn't quick. They get you going quickly, but this

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00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: doesn't happen over the course of a few months, like

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00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: it seems like. The minimum is is about a year,

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00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: and it can be as long as two years sometimes

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00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 1: to graduate and prove that you are are drug free

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00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: and committed to being drug free. Right, so you'll have

390
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: like the court all up in your stuff like during

391
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: that two years. Right. Some of them are even shorter,

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00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: but they're almost men is like an emergency case, like, um,

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00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, somebody's having a mental health crisis. I don't

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00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: know if it's federal. I know some states have it.

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00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: At least if it's not a federal law that you

396
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: can you can be locked up for for I think

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00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: seventy two hours against your will if a court says

398
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: this person needs to be emergence, they need emergency mental

399
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: health treatment. There are some kind of sub categories of

400
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: drug courts that have been set up to adjust the

401
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: opioid crisis. That will will be like a ninety day

402
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: like emergency crash program that's basically meant to keep you

403
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: out of jail but also keep you alive and like

404
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: really get your your treatment going. But um, that's like

405
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,239
Speaker 1: an additional part to the drug court program because from

406
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: what I saw, it seems like twelve to twenty four

407
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: months is pretty normal. Yeah, And and who are these people?

408
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: Who are these prosecutors and defense attorneys and judges, And

409
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: in most cases it seems like they are people that

410
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: have specifically requested drug court. Um, it doesn't seem like

411
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people are begrudgingly assigned drug court. They

412
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: feel compelled to do so. Maybe a mid career switch

413
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 1: or maybe you know that's what they wanted to do

414
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: to begin with. Um, you know, they feel like to

415
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: have a calling to try to help people and not

416
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: necessarily just be like I'm gonna be the prosecutor that

417
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 1: like throws a book at everybody, the judge that just

418
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: wants to put everybody behind bars. Uh. They definitely have

419
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: a more compassionate side than you're probably used to in

420
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: a courtroom. Um. Although I will say most courts, I

421
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 1: mean I've only been like traffic court and stuff, but

422
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: they have all sorts of you know, traffic court is

423
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: they have a range of people in there, and most

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00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: of the judges I've I've seen in my life have

425
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: been kind of the it's sort of harsh with a

426
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: heart of gold. Yeah. I've never seen one in person

427
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 1: that was just like it seemed like a real jerk

428
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 1: that was just intent on running people through the system.

429
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: You know, you make a good point. I think every

430
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: every scientific study that involves human subjects should be required

431
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: to get their their population sample from traffic court. There's

432
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: no better like perfect cross section of America then like

433
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: a Tuesday morning in traffic Oh man, you ain't kidding.

434
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: So that's the rule. Now first science everybody, Yeah, that's

435
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: really true, and you're always like, I feel like every

436
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: time I've been to traffic court, which has only been

437
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: two or three times it's been, I'm always feel like

438
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm the last person that all day long, and uh,

439
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: always envious of the people that are are are up

440
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: there first. But at the end of the day it

441
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: ends up being fairly interesting for a dude like me

442
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: who just enjoys um watching this sort of experience play out.

443
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: Have have you ever been to traffic court and you

444
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: were like looking at the cops who showed up, and

445
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: you're like, is that the one I think I gave me? Think?

446
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: Because you know if they don't if they don't show up,

447
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: they throw out your case supposedly, right, which I'm not

448
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: even sure if that's an urban legend or not, But

449
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if it is. No, I think it

450
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: might depend, but I think that can be the case

451
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: for sure. Well, I've never I've never been able to

452
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: perfectly say yes, the cop that gave me the ticket

453
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: is not here, because you know that's because you were

454
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: whacked out. They man, I really can't remember. I wasn't

455
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: even a traffic court. I was like in jail, just

456
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: hallucinating at the time. Um. Yeah, I have heard that,

457
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: because that was the advice I always got. Um was,

458
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: all right, you want to plead not guilty just in

459
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: case they don't show and then by the time you

460
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: you actually get up in front of the judge, if

461
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 1: they've shown up, you can always change your plea bro.

462
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: And they actually have another Um, they have a diversionary

463
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: court or a diversion court like a side court that

464
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: they've set up for a traffic court where you can

465
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: go in plead guilty and then pay like a reduced

466
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: fine and you don't have to sit there for the

467
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: whole day. And it's really a They just take any

468
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: pretense of trying to keep people safe as the reason

469
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: they give out traffic tickets. Just they completely do away

470
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: with it. It's just like there's like a guy wearing

471
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: one of those green brim like bankers caps, you know,

472
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: if you make it fast, Yeah, pretty much exactly. And

473
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: and but there's like no public safety aspect to it.

474
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 1: It's just a money making thing. But that actually qualifies

475
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: is like this kind of thing with a drug court.

476
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: It's like here's a regular court, here's something else off

477
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: to the side that we're using to to divert people

478
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: out of the clogged court system. For sure. Yeah, I

479
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: think it's I think everyone should go to court, just

480
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: at least once. I want to be on jury duty.

481
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: You know, I got called not too long ago, and

482
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: I didn't they you know, they didn't even call me

483
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: up to be questioned or whatever. I just ended up

484
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: being hanging out all day and then they dismissed a

485
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: whole lot of like the thirty people I was with.

486
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm into it. I would definitely do it.

487
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: I certainly wouldn't want to be tied up for weeks

488
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: or what do they call it when you have to question? Yes,

489
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: a question? No way, But but they give you, like case,

490
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: you get dinner for free. Yeah, but come on, I

491
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: know would be tickets old after like two or three weeks.

492
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: I think you're right free dinner. Um, all right, So

493
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: where were we? We're talking about good judges and bad judges.

494
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, everyone's sort of on the same team in

495
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: drug court, which is, let me get to know this person,

496
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: let me find the root of their problem, let me

497
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: see if we can help them walk this straight and

498
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: narrow together, which is sounds very hippie dippy. I'm kind

499
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: of surprised this took root in the United States. Yes, so, yeah,

500
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: it is simpler or something, right, super Scandinavian. Yeah so

501
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: um so again this is ideally not every judge is

502
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: going to fit this bill, but drug court judges would

503
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: tend to lean towards this, this personality trait um or

504
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: or act like this more than say your typical criminal

505
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: court judge. Right, so they one of the things that's

506
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: expected of them as part of being a drug court judges.

507
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: They are meant to be kind of a social worker

508
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: almost for this person, which is a really weird position

509
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: for a judge being why not just leave it to

510
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: the social worker? Well, again, you come back to the coercion,

511
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: right if you. And this is supposed to be built

512
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: into a good, even average drug court program. It treats

513
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: addiction as a public health problem, as a chronic disease,

514
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: And if you're not familiar with that model of addiction,

515
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: go listen to our addiction episode because it's really interesting.

516
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 1: But it treats it is like, this is a chronic disease,

517
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: so it's expected that this person is going to probably relapse,

518
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: probably with certainty, depending on the level of their addiction,

519
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: and that is not grounds to wash out of the

520
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: program the first time, or maybe even the second time,

521
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: or maybe even the third time. It's up to the

522
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: judge's discretion. But eventually you get to a point where

523
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: the person either washes out of the program or it's

524
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: clear they're not really taking it very seriously, so the

525
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: judge will um issue what's called a flash in carceerrat,

526
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: which means you you showed up to take your drug test,

527
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: it's been four weeks since your lasting court. You're in

528
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: the program, and you just failed, and the judge is

529
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: tired of you failing your drug tests. And the next

530
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: thing you know, you're wearing an orange jumpsuit and spending

531
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: the next ten days in jail to kind of like

532
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: snap you out of it and get you serious about

533
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: this thing again. And then over time, eventually you'll just

534
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: you'll wash out, You'll get kicked out of the program

535
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: and end up in criminal court, and you will pick

536
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: up where you left off, which is the beginning of

537
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: your trial for whatever the original charges were, right, but

538
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: the idea that you can be incarcerated and still remain

539
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: in this program, and given these second and third chances,

540
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: depending on what the judge and the prosecutor and the

541
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: court staff think your level of dedication is. That's you.

542
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: You're not going to find that anywhere else in the

543
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: in the criminal justice system in the United States. No.

544
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: And not only are they do they try and treat

545
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: people for drug abuse, but if you were a victim

546
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: of domestic violence, they will you will go to an

547
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,479
Speaker 1: age see to help you with that. If you they

548
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: work a lot with veterans, um if you suffer from PTSD,

549
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: or if you're just a drug addicted veteran, then they're

550
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: gonna make really sure that they're taking care of you

551
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: and providing you with all the medical and mental health

552
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: benefits that you have. And I love how our article

553
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: says it that you have earned, not even that you

554
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: like deserve, like you have earned this right. And so

555
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: this is another just crazy different thing about the drug courts.

556
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: Is imagine that Chuck imagined is basically being like homeless

557
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: and addicted to heroin and you're a veteran right to

558
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: to have people who have access to computers and emails

559
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: and know the phone numbers of the services you're supposed

560
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: to be calling, and know what forms you need to

561
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: fill out and then even how to fill out those forms,

562
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: to have access to people who can help you do that,

563
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: so that all of a sudden you actually do get

564
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: the benefits that get you off of the street and

565
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: into a treatment program and get the government to help

566
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: pay for it. Like that's that's invaluable. And that's another

567
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: aspect of drug Court is that you they provide those services,

568
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: you have access to those people who are helping you

569
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: get those services, or if your child has been taken away,

570
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 1: they help you navigate them the child welfare system so

571
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: that you can go take the classes you need to

572
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: take to get your child back. Um, there's just a

573
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: lot of different services that they offer that they help

574
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: people with two that I think it's just an amazing idea. Yeah,

575
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: and it's it makes sense too because one of the

576
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: big drawback are not drawbacks, but one of the big

577
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: things holding these people back many times is when you're

578
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: a heroin addict, you are robbed of any ambition to

579
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: do this yourself. Even if you wake up sober and

580
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: you're like, man, I don't want to live this kind

581
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: of life, but you are addicted to this drug. So

582
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: you don't wake up and think, let me go to

583
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: the the local library because they have the internet there

584
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: and I can sign up and find out where this

585
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: stuff is. And I have no family that's going to

586
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: help me do this or I've rejected them, like that

587
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: first step can literally just be the person it's like, yeah,

588
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: this is the number I will. You can be driven

589
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: there and dropped off there and that can kick start

590
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: the the process of getting healthy again. Right. So that's

591
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: a huge part of drug court tune. That's a huge

592
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: part of the success of it. So there's this whole

593
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: court system set up there that if you if you

594
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: want to take advantage of it, you can get off

595
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: of drugs and you can stay out of jail. And

596
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: the way that it's from what some of the studies

597
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: I've seen, the best role that a judge can play

598
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: is supportive but also stern, not a pushover, but also

599
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: just not a blowhard. No, there's no room for blowhards

600
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: in here, but there's also no room for somebody who's

601
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: just completely being taken advantage of by person after person. Right,

602
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: So you want a nice mix and the judge, but

603
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: you also want to Jose is going to listen to

604
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: the other professionals too, uh, and act almost as an

605
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: advocate of the person who's who's in it, um. But

606
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: they're also meant to kind of create this atmosphere where

607
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: you are, you're you're doing this like this, you're this

608
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: is good man, You're I'm this is a respectable thing

609
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: that you're doing, and therefore I'm going to treat you

610
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: with the respect that you're earning right now, by right,

611
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: and rather than confrontation and shame, which apparently has a

612
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: terrible effect on addicts, regardless of whether you're in court

613
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: or in a rehab treatment or whatever. Um. And then

614
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: the the end of it is considered like a graduation,

615
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: like it's meant to be a big deal, so much

616
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: so that they'll actually bring other people who are in

617
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: the program to court on the day that you are

618
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: graduating from the program because they they it's a it's

619
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 1: a it's kind of a big deal, and they treat

620
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: it like a big deal. Exactly, yeah, exactly, And they're

621
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: treated with respect and all these people who they've probably

622
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: become at least, you know, civil with, if not jovial

623
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: and friendly with, over the last like ninety days or

624
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: twelve months or twenty four months, um. To see them

625
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: patting that person on the back. I'm sure that that

626
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: means a lot, you know. Yeah, So the idea that

627
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: it's this is it is it just feels really weird

628
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: to be talking and not say and of course we

629
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: mean Sweden. You know, it is very, very weird. But

630
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: it's out there and it's it's growing like wildfire. All right, Well,

631
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: let's take a break and we will come back and

632
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: finish up with um some statistics and some more glowing reviews,

633
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: and then of course the dreaded poopo ing of the

634
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: bad side of drug courts right after this that k

635
00:35:52,960 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: should know my dumbnail large ski. All right, So the

636
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: cool thing about these kind of programs, when the government

637
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: is involved in pouring a lot of money into these programs,

638
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: is that there's gonna be a lot of research. And

639
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: there's definitely been a lot of research on drug courts,

640
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: and all data points generally point to the fact that

641
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: it works on a pretty big level. Um, it works. Uh,

642
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: it saves people money and saves taxpayers money. It lowers crime,

643
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: it reduces crime, it lowers the rate of recidivism. Um.

644
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: One bone head word, I think we can agree. So

645
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: let's start with a stat from inside jail in prison

646
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: of offenders in jail in prison abused drug and alcohol

647
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: like while they're in prison, in jail, okay of them

648
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: are clinically addicted. So it is clear that there's a

649
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: really big problem to just sending addicts to jail. Yeah,

650
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: because again, remember not a lot of jails, especially like

651
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: city and county jails, have treatment programs. You're probably in

652
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: a federal penitentiary or a good state pen if you're

653
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: getting a treatment program, and if you're a low level

654
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: drug offender, you're probably not going to state or federal penitentiary.

655
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: You're going to city or county jail. Well, yeah, and

656
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: sixty of of inmates who seek drug treatment, like if

657
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: they have the program and you just want to seek

658
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: that program while you're in prison, drop out early. Uh.

659
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: With the thinking for drug courts being that there's no

660
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: like they're already in jail. There isn't that carrot dangling

661
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: or rather maybe a hammer dangling above their head that said,

662
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: you know, you can avoid jail by doing this. They're

663
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: already in jail, so there's not a lot of incentive.

664
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: So the thing about drug courts is that they they

665
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: apparently change that thing this this article says they reverse

666
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: all these numbers. It's a little glib if you ask me,

667
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: but they definitely are in it. They do. So. There

668
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: was a UM National Association of Drug Court Professional study,

669
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: and there's been other studies that should have shown similar

670
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: UM statistics, but something like UM. The recitativism rate is

671
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: like um SI after the first year, after the second year,

672
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: which is far less than what you would find in

673
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: the in the general population for people on probation UM.

674
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: And these are people who have completed the program, which

675
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 1: is we'll see as a big caveat UM. People who

676
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: are parents in the drug courts tend to their kids,

677
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: tend to spend less time in foster care, and their

678
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: family is more likely to be reunited after they complete

679
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: the program. UM. What else reduced crime rate compared to alternatives.

680
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: And then another study from the National Institute of Justice

681
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: for Escambia County, Florida, which I believe is Pensacola area UM.

682
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: They said the felony rearrest rate there was lowered. So

683
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of statistics that really

684
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: seemed to show that this works, including reducing prison population

685
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: which saves the state's money. Making it making improving employment opportunities,

686
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: which would give more tax revenue. Uh, And so it

687
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: seems like it's all like a no brainer. Why would

688
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: anyone have a problem with us? Well, here, here's why

689
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: I didn't get this Drug Policy Alliance when fully did you? Yes?

690
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: All right, what's the deal there? So one of the

691
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: things that drug courts do is they take the war

692
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: on drug ugs from the supply side, which means like

693
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: invading Mexico, to the demand side, which means busting users. Right,

694
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: and drug cord is just basically a new iteration of

695
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: the idea of busting a user, but rather than just

696
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: busting them again and again and again in the hopes

697
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: that they'll eventually give up on drugs, they this is

698
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: to cure them of their addiction to drug It's the

699
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: court intervening, but it's still the same thing. And the

700
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: Drug Policy Alliance is like, this is, we don't need

701
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: to be doubling down on busting low level users and addicts.

702
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: We need to treat it strictly as a public health thing.

703
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: And if you are busted with a small amount of drugs,

704
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: you shouldn't ever go to jail like it should be

705
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 1: decriminalized and what they're saying is that this this whole

706
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: thing is like a whole new direction, a whole new

707
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: push that's just keeping us from decriminalizing low amounts of drugs,

708
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: which the Drug Policy Alliance says is best practices. All right,

709
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,479
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Uh, And then you send a really

710
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: interesting article, Um, what was that was that the Atlantic? No,

711
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 1: it was a Pacific standard. It was the Pacific. It's

712
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: the Atlantic of the of the West Coast. Yeah, that

713
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: one was really interesting because they paint are not paint.

714
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: But they kind of tell another side of the story

715
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: through a few examples of real people, which is, all right,

716
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: let's say my son or daughter is addicted to heroin

717
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: and they go through like what you talked about, like

718
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: the flash incarceration, Like, hey, you came in here and

719
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: tested positive. Um, so I'm just gonna go ahead and

720
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: throw you right back in the slammer for ten days.

721
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: What's happening is is a lot of these people, and

722
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 1: it depends on the drug, but especially in the case

723
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: of heroin and opioids, is they're putting people in back

724
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: in jail very quickly who are in the middle of

725
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: going cold Turkey, right, So that's not a good situation

726
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: and kind of round me across the board. Medical professions

727
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: have agreed that that methodone and what was the other drug? Oh,

728
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: I can't, I couldn't, uh like benzer. Let's just say

729
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: method because most people know that one. That methodone is

730
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 1: like an essential medicine if you are trying to kick

731
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: an opioid or heroin habit and under the terms of

732
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: of a drug court, you can't use methodone even right,

733
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: So they they found that fifty percent of drug courts

734
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: in the US have an outright ban on what's called

735
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: maintenance and the idea behind matenes and like you said,

736
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: it's like the medical community says this is the best practice.

737
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: If you're addicted to heroin or opioids, you go get

738
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: what's called a maintenance dose, where you get a little

739
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: dose of something like methodone, and you get it every

740
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: day at the same time, every day, the same amount,

741
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: and you get your body so used to this that

742
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: you're no longer getting high. But it keeps you from

743
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 1: going out and getting high because you are no longer

744
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: have that craving, you're not drug seeking anymore. And apparently

745
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: they compare it to like being on prozac that you

746
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: can go out, have a job, have a high stress job,

747
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: live a normal life and beyond methodone, this maintenance dose

748
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: of Method methodone and and not get ever get back

749
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: on heroin. Well fifty of drug courts say no, this

750
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: is an abstinence based court court. To be part of it,

751
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: you can't trust, you can't um test positive for drugs,

752
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: and therefore you can't be on methodone. And so what

753
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: they're doing is if you if you wash out of

754
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: this court system, whether they kick you in the jail

755
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: or say you're out of drug court and you've been

756
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: you haven't been on methodone, but you have been off

757
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: of heroin. When you get back on it, what used

758
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: to be just a normal dose to you could kill you.

759
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: That's just what happens with your body when you're in withdrawals.

760
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: So it's like these drug courts that are abstinence based

761
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: drug courts are setting you up to overdose on heroin

762
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: if you don't follow this program strictly right, And they're

763
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: what they're saying is like judges are judges who don't

764
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: listen to the medical community's best practices are that's a

765
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: very dangerous situation. Yeah, because you're I mean, they know

766
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: that you're super at risk for uh, for relapse, and

767
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: then once you're in there for ten days and you're

768
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: cold Turkey and you're clean, then then you are also,

769
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: like you said, significant risk for overdosing and possibly dying.

770
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: So again, it seems to be specifically with like heroin

771
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: and opioids, which is, you know, maybe the biggest problem

772
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: in our country right now drug wise anyway, So I'm

773
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 1: not discounting that, but especially in these cases, it seems

774
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: like drug courts need to at least be uh. They're

775
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: not saying drug courts are bad, but they need to

776
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: h they need to maybe work with the medical community

777
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: a little more when it comes to heroin and opioids

778
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: as the best practice forgetting these people clean, because that's

779
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: the goal, right And a lot of them do. A

780
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: lot of them do allow for medication and maintenance. That's

781
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: good to know. I thought it was rare what that

782
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: that they allow for maintenance. Oh yeah, no, like like

783
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: a lot of them do, say none whatsoever. Um, but yeah,

784
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: a lot of them do. Some of them though the

785
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: other fifty some are on certain basis bases like if

786
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: you're a pregnant woman, they'll let you do a methodone

787
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: treatment or something like that. Um, there's it's not like

788
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: half let you and half don't. It's half don't and

789
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: then some of the other half let just anybody like

790
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: maybe twenty just openly allows it. But that that is

791
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: the way to cure somebody of heroin and denying them

792
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: that is it's just not it's ill informed. Well yeah,

793
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: and very sadly. I mean it is anecdotal. I don't

794
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: know what kind of um big studies they have on this,

795
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,479
Speaker 1: but you know, they sold very specific stories about people

796
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: that went through drug court were released and overdosed and

797
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: died because their body couldn't take what, like you said,

798
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: was a week and a half ago a normal dose. Right,

799
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: it's very sad. And then again there's the other there's

800
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: the other aspect where it's like they they are you know,

801
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: since they can select who comes into drug court, they're

802
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: selecting people who are going to likely graduate and let

803
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: their make their drug court look even better. And so

804
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: they're going to pick first time or scared kids who

805
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: who are like, my whole life is going to be

806
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: ruined if I end up in jail, um, who will

807
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: probably see the program through. And so that means that

808
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: the data is kind of cherry picked, you know, like

809
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: like these recentativism rates, those are for people who complete

810
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: the program. For people who wash out of the program,

811
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: they're actually worse off than the people who were similar

812
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: criminals under the same circumstances that just kept going through

813
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: criminal court because they ended up with more prison time,

814
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: more jail time than they would have had if they

815
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: just stuck the criminal court. So there's definitely some criticisms

816
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 1: of it. It can be done better, but it does

817
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: seem like there are some courts out there that actually

818
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: do follow like these ideal best practices models. It's just

819
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: there's just so much leeway that it's different from court

820
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 1: to court, and it just depends on the judge. Really,

821
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: you need Harry Anderson in there, sure you do. All

822
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: those judges need to learn at least three card tricks

823
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: and look good in black. You you got anything else?

824
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: I got nothing else? I don't either. So let's see.

825
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about drug courts, you

826
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: can search those words on the search bar hou stuffts

827
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: dot com. And since I said that it's time for

828
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 1: listener mail, I'm gonna call this what will be one

829
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: of two North Korea responses in this in a subsequent recording.

830
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: We got a lot of good feedback about that episode.

831
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: I was pretty stoked. I was two. I was nervous. Um. Hey, guys,

832
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: was able. Uh, this is from Ken in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

833
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: He said, I've enjoying your show for a while. Now

834
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to toss a stone to your North Korean pond.

835
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: I was able to visit the d m Z. While

836
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: I was there for a while, he told a story

837
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 1: why he was there. But he was able to go

838
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: to the d m Z, and he said it was fascinating.

839
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny that each side built super

840
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: tall flagpoles to be just a little taller than the other,

841
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 1: and also made modifications to their buildings on either side

842
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: of the blue huts to also be taller and more

843
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 1: imposing than the other. South Korea actually trains their d

844
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: MZ guards stand watch and the most imposing stance possible.

845
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: One more thing I'll share is the talk I had

846
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: with my Korean co teachers. I asked him what they

847
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: felt about reunification, and the universal answer was that there

848
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: should be one united Korea and they hope to see

849
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: it happened soon. The lone dissenter was a woman. He said,

850
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: she recognized how difficult that process would be, and she

851
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: didn't think it would be good for the country. And

852
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: the other teachers heard this co workers opinion, they all

853
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: looked at her like she had just poured mayonnaise on

854
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: the kimchi. That sounds delicious to me. I don't know

855
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: what the is there? If there were, the Japanese mayonnaise

856
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: made me yeah, exactly. Oh man, what was that stuff

857
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: that was so good? Qps and more of that please? Uh.

858
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: They couldn't believe she wasn't for reunification. Your culture is

859
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: less individual individualistic than ours, so they often altered the

860
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: party line on such things, but she did not anyway.

861
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: Thank you for turning my long drives and monotonous tasks

862
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: into opportunities to think and learn. My wife and I

863
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: in most evenings talking about our days and how they went,

864
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: and I often discussed the topics on your show because

865
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: that's what I've been contemplate. Ken from Lancaster p A.

866
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot. Ken. Say hi to the Amish out

867
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: there for us because they don't listen to our podcasts. Yeah,

868
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: give him an give him an iPhone. The world there

869
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 1: was one thing that Um I wanted to mention. There

870
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: are actually two things in that episode that I forgot

871
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: to mention. One was the nineteen seventies six Acts attack

872
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: of North Korean guards against South Korean guards? Did you

873
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: hear about that? Like killed by a hatchet for goodness sake? Right? Um?

874
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: And then the current president was on the team who

875
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: came out after that and finished cutting down the tree

876
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: that the South Korean guards were originally doing. And then

877
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: the other thing is that North Korea holds the Mass

878
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: Games and they hold it in like this, it's like

879
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: their own personal Olympics, and they hold it in a

880
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand person stadium. And there's a I

881
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: think it's a national geographic documentary about this girl who's

882
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: a gymnast or a dancer or something like that. I

883
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: can't remember, but it's her training for the mass Games.

884
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: It's a great documentary. Check it out. Okay, thanks a lot, Ken,

885
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: thank you Chuck for letting me talk, and thank you

886
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: for listening. And if you want to get in touch

887
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: with us, you can tweek to us. So I'm at

888
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: josh um Clark. We're both at s Y s K

889
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: podcast and Chuck is at movie Crush. Chuck's also on

890
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. Chuck's on

891
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and slash

892
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email

893
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and

894
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: it's always joined usutter home on the web, Stuff you

895
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands

896
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com.