1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, Matt, 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: You're back. I'm here. It's me and Ally they call 6 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined, of course, with our super 7 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: producer Paul Decont, and we hope you join us in 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: welcoming back, Matt Frederick, you are here. You are you, 9 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: know this. This episode is meant to answer a question 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: that we stumbled upon in our earlier conversations with John 12 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: go Forth. Remember that, Matt, we talked with um John 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: go Forth about Tom DeLong and disclosure, and I think 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: it did come up, how do you become an expert? Like? 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: What are the means to be an expert in these things? 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: I was superbummed to have missed that one. So I 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: am going to be learning some new stuff today. Excellent. Hey, 18 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: who knows we might end the show by becoming ufologists ourselves. 19 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: This question was posed to us by one of our coworkers, 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: Jason Cokes, So shout out to you Jason and thanks 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: for the recommendation. Do you think work? We'll pay for it. 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: That's uh, that's up to debate. Hey, do us a 23 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: favor if you want to help us become uh credited 24 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: ufologists to go fund me dot com slash s t 25 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: w I t k I was going to say, right 26 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: to our bosses, you know what do both? They do both. 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: So that's that's today's question. How exactly does someone become 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: a ufologist. We hear about ufologists often. You will see 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: them in things like Ancient Aliens on History Channel. You'll 30 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: see them quoted in um in different television programs like 31 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: The Old Ones of the Mysteries and so on. But 32 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: two explore how somebody goes from just being an average 33 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: a civilian in the world of UFOs to becoming a 34 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: noted expert of some sort or another. We have to 35 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: first figure out what a ufologist is. So here are 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: the facts. The term ufologists comes from. Obviously UFO that 37 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: dates back to nine when it was an abbreviation of 38 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: the earlier term unidentified flying object that came around ninety 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: basic stuff. And they do what it says on the tin. 40 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: They study reports of unidentified aerial phenomenon or flying objects. 41 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: But there's a weird, tricky thing here when you think 42 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: about it, because once you identify the thing, are you 43 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: really still a ufologist or you know, if it's a 44 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: weather pattern, have you accidentally become a meteorologist? If it's 45 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: a bird, have you become an ornithologist. I'm just fascinated 46 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: by the these credentials come into ten with instructions. I 47 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: think one thing we're gonna notice here is that historically, 48 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: when you maybe are considered upologists, you probably have a 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: degree in some related field. Yes, likewise, like like a 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: meteorologist or other ologist. Well, yeah, yeah, physics is a 51 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: really big one. If you're let's see if you and 52 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: if you're an engineer and you make airplanes or something 53 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: to that effect, then aerospace engineer like a come in handy, yeah, 54 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll find that the interdisciplinary nature of this 55 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: is both a blessing and the curse for the professional 56 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: ufologists out there. But how many are there? Funny you 57 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: should ask, There are no accurate figures on that number. 58 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: The one thing we found that had an indication at 59 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: least of the education level. Going to your point, Matt, 60 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: about their degrees right in nine six, the center for 61 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: UFO Studies conducted a Vall and Terry Pole mid its donors, 62 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: and they found that the hundred and sixty one people 63 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: who responded, one fifth of them had PhD degrees and 64 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: seventy had earned at least a bachelor's degree or higher. 65 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: The most common degrees were in physics and engineering. And 66 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: their jobs, as it's reported in this paper, are you know, 67 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: pretty pretty white collar professional things. Doctors, lawyers, engineers of course, 68 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: and professors, which is strange because they were dedicating their 69 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: free time to this study of unidentified phenomenon or objects 70 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: and in their day jobs these people are considered credible scientists. 71 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: But uthology today is still widely considered a pseudo science. 72 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: So you can't go through a reputable university and get 73 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: a degree in u ethology. Not not for the most parts. 74 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: And in that survey, these are just people who are interested, right, 75 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: These are people who donated to a thing. Yeah, they 76 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: donate to a thing. They go to the conferences, the networks, 77 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: so they have an active interest in it. They're on 78 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: one of those outside professions. They're probably not out protesting 79 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: in front of the White House in the seventies for disclosure, 80 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: but yeah, no, traditional colleges or universities offer specific degree 81 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: programs in what we call ufology. However, there are some 82 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: courses available online. For instance, the International Metaphysical University offers 83 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: six courses in ufology studies, including Introduction to Ethology. It's 84 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: taught by an historian named Richard Dolan, and the online 85 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: courses have twelve lectures each that cover difference different ideas. 86 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: I mean we have the names of them that I 87 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: think indicate a little bit of bias. Yeah, things like 88 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: what are UFOs? It's a good place to start theories 89 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: of ancient visitation that's going to be just it feels 90 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: a little like they're stacking the deck and I say, 91 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: I got you, and then um the early cover up? 92 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: Does the Great Courses offer this? Hey, I've missed the 93 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: Great Courses? Those things were fantastic. Man, we can still 94 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: get them, right, Great Courses dot COM's Last Conspiracy. Maybe 95 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: it's still active. Who knows. They're also just so you know. 96 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: Other lecture titles like Weird Science, Propulsion, Energy, Spacetime and Consciousness. 97 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: Is that consciousness separate from spacetime or spacetime and conscious 98 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: I think it's all of it wrapped up together and 99 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: more bang for your buck. Huh. Digging deeper the Breakaway Civilization? 100 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: What is that? Would that be? Would that be a 101 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: civil hypothetical civilization that breaks away from Earth and lives 102 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: in space? I don't know. You gotta take the course. 103 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: You gotta take the course. Yeah, and this is the 104 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: this is extant. You can go and take the course. 105 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: Now you can enroll and you can see some testimonies 106 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: from people who have taken the course, and you can 107 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: read about the grading system. Well, you can get all 108 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: the details. All you have to do is visit inter 109 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: met to dot com I N T E R M 110 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: E t U dot com. This is not free, No, 111 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: we should point that out. You know what the Breakaway 112 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: Civilization is. It's pretty interesting. It's this idea of this 113 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: alternate reality that exists only in like five hundred million 114 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: pages of classified documents. So it's sort of this like 115 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: meta reality that supposedly the information exists to understand, but 116 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: we don't have access to it. Okay. And when I 117 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: say reality, I just mean you know, cover ups and 118 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: the stuff that that that is known but not known 119 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: to us. So it's an alternate physically earthly right, just 120 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 1: like the you know, the behind the curtain kind of stuff. 121 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: I've never heard that term before. I like, let's do 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: an episode on that. We may have to invest however, 123 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: if we want to use this course as the basis 124 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: for our future episode on breakaways, because the courses cost 125 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: around two hundred or four hundred dollars each, and this 126 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: can be you can see how this could become expensive. 127 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: You know. And let's say you decided to become a 128 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: u ethologist. But you say, you know what, I don't 129 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: want to rely on self education. A lot of people 130 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: who describe themselves as ufologists are doing it based on 131 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: research after a an event that they have experienced firsthand, 132 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: or something they've seen, something that touched them in their 133 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: personal lives. So they're self directing the And there's nothing 134 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,119 Speaker 1: wrong with self directed research. Some of the most important 135 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: scientists and philosophers in human history were just on their own, 136 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: reading books they thought were interesting and writing other things 137 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: as well. But let's say you don't feel completely comfortable 138 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: doing self education. You sign up for something like this 139 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: program at International Metaphysical University, You finish that twelve of 140 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: lecture course and boom, you're out of school. You have 141 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: to get a job, right, so what what do you 142 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: do for a living with this? With this degree? Basically, 143 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: you try and give talks wherever you can give talks, 144 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: or you get in contact with people who have footage 145 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: of something. You study that footage, or you watch the 146 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: sky and you wait and then hopefully write books about it. 147 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: Those are those are my own. That's my understanding. Is 148 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: there anything else? I You know, it's funny to say 149 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: this because it reminds me of some of my friends 150 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: who were who became sociologists. They get their PhDs in 151 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: sociology and they still, what do you do with that? 152 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: And they said, teach sociology classes? So it's so maybe 153 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people who become upologists through this path 154 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: begin teaching or transmitting their their own knowledge and experience. Yeah, 155 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: but I can go to the International Metaphysical thing and 156 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: pay for in dollarge and get my degree. Why would 157 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: I need to learn from you, you apologist guy who 158 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: just got your degree. Maybe they are adding more to 159 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: that based education. Gosh, I don't know, It's it's a 160 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: good question, right. The university website notes that ufologists can 161 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: seek work as lecturers, writers, movie consultants, which sounds pretty cool, 162 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: or political activists similar to Tom DeLong and Luis Alisando 163 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: working towards disclosure or working in the political and government 164 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 1: arena on the area of UFOs in preparation for contact 165 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: or landings. All right, there we go. There are a 166 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: couple of other things they say you can do as well, 167 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: so prepare for contact. I like that a lot um 168 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: you could work. I guess, yeah, this this does note 169 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: that you can work as a professional hypnotist and or 170 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: what does this say a life coach for people who 171 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: have who claim to have had abduction experiences? Right? Yeah, 172 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: And the the university, for their part, makes no claims 173 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: about the employment chances after completing the course. You know 174 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: how some universities or colleges for certain courses will say 175 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: of our graduates are placed in a job within the 176 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: fort six months after graduation. And you know, to be fair, 177 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: this is an audio course. You're listening to lectures by 178 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: Richard Dolan. That's what you're doing. You're listening to a 179 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: podcast essentially by Richard Dolan and then taking notes and 180 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: having discussion. So there's no like testing. It's all. It's 181 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: an all online course. I'm certain there is testing, there is, 182 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: but there but in this case, it's prepared lecture essentially 183 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: like you would get out of college. I guess there's 184 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: just no there's back and forth. Yeah, the course has 185 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: um let's see what the course has several quizzes and 186 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: then they have a mid term ex assignment and a 187 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: final exam. If you could find any of them to 188 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: try to quiz ourselves, just to see if we could 189 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: do it cold, I wonder if we could. We could 190 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: probably dig into it and see I'd be interested. Let's 191 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: do let's do a series of two or three episodes 192 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: where we just take this course live on the show. 193 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: I bet they will probably take issue with that. Surely 194 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: that's illegal. Well, let's just contact Richard Dolan and see 195 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: if he'll come in and talk with us. I mean, 196 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: he's an author, he's made he's written several books that 197 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,479 Speaker 1: you end up reading, are asked to read or suggested. 198 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: That's a great idea. Yeah, that's just a great idea there. 199 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: If you don't want to go that route for some reason. 200 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: There are two other online in universities we found that 201 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: offers similar courses. There's the I MHS Metaphysical Institute and 202 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: the Center for Excellence in the United Kingdom. They offer 203 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: full degree programs as well. And Matt, you've looked at 204 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: some of this. Yeah, the Upology Diploma course from the 205 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: Center of Excellence only costs one and twenty seven pounds 206 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: that's British for the whole course. Yeah, and you can 207 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: you can even finance the course. You put twenty nine 208 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: pounds down, then you pay sixteen thirty three for six months. 209 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: I mean, even if it's a scam, that's a pretty 210 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: affordable scam. Yeah, yeah, you can go over. I mean, 211 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: they've got some information about what you're gonna learn, but 212 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: it's I would say it's pretty limited as far as 213 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: I mean. It gives you kind of a course syllabus. 214 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: It's like an introduction class, an introductory course rather so 215 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: it talks a little bit about the history of the 216 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: search for UFOs, a little bit about the present day, 217 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: and then it seems to end on how addressing how 218 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: a student can get involved. But there there are some 219 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: things that will I'm sure drive the more skeptical of 220 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: us in the audience insane, like in they're right up, 221 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: they say, quote the Ethology Diploma course provides insight into 222 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: the technologies they are likely used to propel u FOS 223 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: in different kinds of craft and their purposes. So they're 224 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: not saying we're trying to figure out what these are. 225 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: They're claiming that they have in fact identified the unidentified objects. 226 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: There you go. Another thing that we should point out 227 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: for this is that this course is certified by the 228 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: i a h T, the International Alliance of Holistic Therapists. 229 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: That's claimed on the website there, And I wonder what 230 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: what they have to do with youthology. So it inherently 231 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: has kind of a new age bent to it. It 232 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: would appear to be the case. Yeah, unless the i 233 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: a h T is more familiar with this sort of stuff, 234 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: because one would assume that most ufology questions are going 235 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: to be related to things like the nature of physics 236 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: and aviation and again media orology. But perhaps there's more 237 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: to the story. So what do you do if you say, Okay, 238 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: I've seen that. I appreciate it, but I think there's 239 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: I want something more traditional. I want more formal education, 240 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: like to your point, and well, I want to go 241 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: to Rutgers or to Yale or something to learn this. 242 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: It can be difficult for a budding ufolog just to 243 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,119 Speaker 1: find the right path of study because of the inherently 244 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: interdisciplinary nature of this research. Like if we go back 245 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: to our earlier example, should a ufologists first study engineering, 246 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: or should they study physics, Should they study meteorology or psychology, 247 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: or folklore or sociology or just all of them at once? Yes? Yeah, right, 248 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: I mean it is a bit of a grab bag 249 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: because there's certainly science involved and um astronomy involved in 250 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: the idea of studying space, but it's also wrapped into 251 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: a lot of pop culture ideas and a lot of 252 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: folkloric ideas or things that are not quite provable, So 253 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of conceptual thought behind it as well. 254 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: It's interesting sure, making yourself aware of a lot of 255 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: the folklore surrounding the event of a UFO will give 256 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: you an idea as to what what are these people 257 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: maybe think they're seeing in their heads when they're viewing 258 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: some object in the air. Um, that's all I wanted 259 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, and it's it's a dilemma. You know, 260 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: for many people UFO enthusiasts and skeptics light this feels problematic. Look, 261 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: some of the skeptics in the audience now might think 262 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: these are just waste of money or even worse, a 263 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: purposeful con job. As as we've said, Matt Nolan and 264 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: I have not taken these courses and we haven't yet 265 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: seen material from them, so you can't really comment too 266 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: deeply on what they actually are. I think that idea 267 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: of taking a test is fascinating. But people who actively 268 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: research UFOs and perhaps feel that they have a specific 269 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: line on it, that they found it previously unexplained, whether 270 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: phenomenon or they've proven there's extraterrestrial involvement, they might feel 271 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: this type of education is unnecessary or misdirected, and they say, well, 272 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: maybe we're better off studying just orthodox meteorology, old school 273 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: aerospace engineering. Will the time of a professional ufologist be 274 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: better spit in the field, chasing reports and gathering firsthand experience? 275 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: And I mean anybody can do that. You could be 276 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: a hobbyist ufologist in that respect of just paying attention 277 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: to the clues and writing things down and submitting you know, 278 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: your reports. But it feels to me like if you 279 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: really wanted to be in a position to really catch 280 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: something like this, you would be studying one of these 281 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: other more traditional fields like astronomy for example, that would 282 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: that would give you the skills needed to actually see 283 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: a UFO if it were to be a thing. I 284 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's interesting too. I think it's a 285 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: great point. And that's right. We buried the lead a 286 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: little bit. We should have been in this. It's true 287 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: there are professional ufologists, and we'll explore their stories after 288 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. So while most mainstream media 289 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: outlets tend to portray these ufologists or people that study 290 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: UFOs in generalize to crack pots or or you know, misguided. Um, 291 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: there is some truth in the idea that multiple places 292 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: do actually employ professional ufologists. And we're not talking about 293 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: what's that guy from Ancient Aliens his name Richard Dolan. 294 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: Richard Dolan not talking about him, he is, though, Lucos. Yeah, 295 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: or there are so many that we've discussed in the past, 296 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: the Hand of the Gods, guy Eric van Denikin. We're 297 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: talking about real you know, human people, not not tell 298 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: vision present ours say. Those are real human things now, 299 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: I know, but I I don't believe it until I 300 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: see them in the flesh. I think they could be 301 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: just conjured. Yeah, well, we do know the technology exists 302 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: to completely impersonate them. It's true. So yeah, we're talking 303 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: about people who get paid money currency to spend time 304 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: trying to determine the true nature of these unknown aerial phenomena, 305 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: or at least at one time, we're paid by a 306 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: government even to do so. Oh yeah, yeah, Nick Pope? 307 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: Are we talking about Nick Pope? What? What's going on 308 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: with this Nick Pope guy? He's the real molder, He's 309 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: the one, He's the chosen one. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. 310 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: He is a career civil server, or he was at 311 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: the time in the United Kingdom, and the Ministry of 312 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: Defense gave him a weird job in he works at 313 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: a thing called the UFO Desk. Yeah pretty cool, yeah, man, 314 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: And apparently it gets between two hundred and three hundred 315 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: reports a year of sightings and his job is to 316 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: follow up one on one. Interesting, right, Yeah, I bet 317 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: some of those calls are pretty wild. We should say 318 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: he did or he was or just in the past 319 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: time because this is uh right, two years before the 320 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: old X Files comes out, which is like our favorite show, 321 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: the best show, and I don't care who you are. 322 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: That's that's true all around. But as is recently, is 323 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: May eighteen, he put out a tweet talking about the 324 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: Pentagon's UFO program, and now they also studied poulter geist 325 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: activity and goes back and mentions. When I ran the 326 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: UK government's UFO project, we were the focal point for 327 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: all the quote weird stuff, crops, circles, yeah, ghosts, you know, 328 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: weird stuff, wacky stuff. Both the US and the UK 329 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: programs were real life X Files. Yeah, and he so 330 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: what do from to? Which is great because that means 331 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: he was still doing this when the first season of 332 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: X Files came out. Yeah, it makes you think he 333 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: got on the phone with somebody, maybe Chris Carter. That 334 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: would be fantastic. I would We'd love to interview all 335 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: the people were mentioning at this point too, so let 336 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: us know who you would like to hear from in 337 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: in a subsequent episode. So his job was just that 338 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: he would get a report. Somebody would say, oh, there's 339 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: a maybe a crop circle or a haunted place, or 340 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: there's a strange light that's been appearing, you know, and 341 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: don Over on Sandwich or whatever whatever British village. I'm 342 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: just making up names. I want to go to don 343 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: Over on Sandwich And and so he would travel to 344 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: the place, he would interview people, he would verify the 345 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: precise time of the report, the precise location, and he 346 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: would check those facts against something that he called the 347 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: usual sus effects a true investigator, and that's what he is. 348 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: I mean, he's a paranormal investigator. We have we heard 349 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: about what his credentials are. No, would you like to 350 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: talk about journalist? Right? That's a good I think that's 351 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: a good start to as far as just being able 352 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: to kind of be a detective and you know, follow 353 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: the leads and follow the clues. I think a journalist 354 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: would be a great way to study this kind of 355 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: stuff if you so chose. What about a podcaster? Wow? 356 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: There you go, Hey, dream big? Right? So he also 357 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: he says that he started from a baseline of zero 358 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: when he was assigned this UFO desk, and it was 359 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: not based on any prior knowledge or personal interest on 360 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: his part. So he was a little maybe less I 361 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: don't want to say less enthusiastic, because he's definitely still professional. 362 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: But he was. Our point is he wasn't going home 363 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: at looking at the truth is out there a poster 364 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: because they weren't out yet. Because they weren't out yet. Yes, okay, 365 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: fair play, he got me. I was trying to slide 366 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: that one by you, but we don't. You have one 367 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: of those posters, So awesome, we should get more around 368 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: the office. How many is too many? Seventeen? Okay, great, 369 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: so we'll stick to sixteen. So he Yeah, he's a journalist. 370 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: He's objectively digging into things. And if you are an 371 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: investigative journalist, you still apply the same methods to any investigation. 372 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: So he's doing the same sort of leg work that 373 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: a good reporter would do. And he found that there 374 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: were a lot of simple explanations for what people were reporting. Yeah, 375 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: almost cases that he was presented with, right, And it's 376 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: always something like what a weather balloon and aircraft light? 377 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: The things you hear about swamp gas, maybe, but probably 378 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: very often. I still, you know, I have a hard 379 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: time saying swamp gas. It comes up all the time 380 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: on our show. But something about those the A and 381 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: swamp and the A and gas make it really difficult 382 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: for me not to see it in a weird accent 383 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: like swamp gas. Yeah, was there another way? It's like 384 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: swamp gas? There you go, swamp gas like you ever did. 385 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,479 Speaker 1: We had a guy that came to our school when 386 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: I was a kid, named Oki Finocchi Joe, and he'd 387 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: always talk about being swamp wise. Swamp would be swamp wise. 388 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not quite sure what he meant. I 389 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: took a tour with Oki Finocchi Joe, and I was 390 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: a kid guy down in the old swamp where you swamp. 391 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: We did a swamp tour, didna? I did not? Then 392 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: you were swamp wi. This is a real thing. Yeah, 393 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: I think it was funny. Yeah, it was a nice 394 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: gin in Augusta George. I think he just like made 395 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: the rounds. You know, I don't think I ever met 396 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: I haven't had the privilege. I really missed out. Is 397 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: there more than one O possible? Is there a lineage 398 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: like how there's more than one mc gruff must be 399 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: there my speed? But I mean, what's around the same time. 400 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: I've bet it was. I bet it's the same one. 401 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: Swamp gas. Well, instead of swamp gas, just say naturally 402 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: occurring bioluminescence. All right, I think we both know. I'm 403 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: going to stick with saying swamp gas in a bad accent. 404 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: When you say it like that, it sounds like you 405 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: got a touch of the swamp game. There we go. 406 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: Is that our new euphemism for really bad farts and 407 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: terrible flatialism. Flatialism and this has been our childish aside 408 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: for today's episode, served for it. But yeah, yes, thank 409 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: you for getting this back on track. Yeah. So those 410 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: things that, like you were saying, Matt, that would be 411 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: the usual suspects, lights, weather, balloons, swamp gas. So this 412 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: is weird though, because it means that five percent of 413 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: these cases could not be explained. And then his real job, 414 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: why he was employed there, is to take that and 415 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: then go nothing to see here? Yeah, isn't that weird? 416 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: His job was not to say, hey, look at these 417 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: inexplicable things. His job was to downplay the importance of 418 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: that to the public, keep calm, carry on, God save 419 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: the Queen, etcetera, etcetera, and the but not only to 420 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: the media in the public, to the lawmakers themselves, to Parliament, 421 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: don't worry about this. To what end though, you know, 422 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: it depends on where you're coming from. So if you 423 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: believe that the government is actively suppressing knowledge of something, 424 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: then it's his job to keep people sort of blissfully ignorant, right, 425 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: But like like Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones and 426 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: the Men in Black but if it's uh, if we're 427 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: looking at it from a more skeptical standpoint, people would 428 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: say it's his job to stop people from becoming alarmed unnecessarily, 429 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: So he's trying to quell I see, and he's also 430 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: first level gatekeeper for whatever other governmental organization is going 431 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: to actually look into that five percent, So he in 432 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: my mind, he doesn't even have to fully look into 433 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: that five percent. I mean, he's doing all the investigation, 434 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: he's talking to witnesses, he's doing all this, But if 435 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: you get way down into it and truly trying to 436 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: figure out what it is, they're probably worth passing on 437 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: someone that can actually do something about. That's that's in 438 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: my mind, what Nick Pope's like, the true reason that 439 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: he's doing this. That sames spot on to me. Otherwise, 440 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: why bother fielding all these phone calls from these wackados 441 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: that think they've seen, you know, a spaceman, which I 442 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: think I think the four of us would be very 443 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: good at that job. Absolutely. And when I say wackados, 444 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: I'm saying I'm sure many of them are legitimate sightings, 445 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: are legitimate things and concerns, what have you. But I'm 446 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: talking about that percentage of people that are just talking 447 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: about swamp gas like out the swamps. I got a 448 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: message from my cat the green at the end of 449 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: the world exactly. You know, there's gonna be some of that. 450 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: And you've gotta give props to this guy because he 451 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: he took it to the to the max. My friends, 452 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: he felt that it was his personal duty to like 453 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: look into everything regarding the history of UFO sightings from 454 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: you know, everything from the you know, like the more 455 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: of the folkloric or you know, pop culture kind of 456 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: versions of stories to these kind of really over the 457 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,479 Speaker 1: top conspiracies. Um. And he had just an encyclopedic knowledge 458 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: of this stuff. It does sound like it would have 459 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: been a fun job. Yeah, and he as we said, 460 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: his work with the Ministry Defense at the UFO Desk 461 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: ended in nineteen four. He continued working for a while 462 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: with the Ministry. He moved to the US in two 463 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: thousand twelve and retired from that line of work to 464 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: become a full time UFO expert, what people would call 465 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: a noted ufologist, but you see, he doesn't care for 466 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: the term. He calls himself a UFO investigator, not a ufologist. 467 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: And he's a little bit anomalous in his field right now, 468 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: because we've talked with people who are fairly prominent, you know, 469 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: and and considered experts in the field of UFO studies. 470 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: We've talked to them on this show, and he to 471 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: some people stands out or as controversial because he came 472 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: to this through a professional aspect, whereas again, a lot 473 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: of people were who became UFO panelists or commentators. They 474 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: were inspired by their own UFO sighting, or they were 475 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: drawn to the topic due to a personal interest, and 476 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: he has neither of those. And he, Pope himself, notes 477 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: that some members of the community do not trust him. 478 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: They think he may still be employed by the government 479 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: or some organization to function as an agent of disinformation. 480 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: He's the Richard C. Doughty of the UK. The Richard C. 481 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: Doughty of the UK that's in remind us to Richard 482 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: is the guy, the mirage man, the guy who was 483 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: sent out there to purposefully feed disinformation to people who 484 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: consider themselves ufologists. And that's a real thing, folks, That 485 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: actually did happen. So this is not entirely unfounded. Paranoia 486 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: and paranoia runs high in this community and it's not 487 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: an unusual accusation. You know, it also makes sense because 488 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: by his own admission, his professional task was less to 489 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: publicize reports and more to downplay their importance. And you know, 490 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: it depends on where you fall. If we're being completely fair, 491 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: you could say that he is either suppressing the truth 492 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: or you could say that he is preventing public hysteria. 493 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: So it really depends on what what motivations you would 494 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: ascribe to him. We're not ascribing motivations to him. Well, 495 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: he's he seems on the up and up. He seems 496 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: like he was just at least at that time, doing 497 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: what he was supposed to do as an employee. Yeah. 498 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: You know, he makes a really really good point in 499 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: some of the writing he's done about these concepts of 500 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: taking an online course to train yourself to be a upologist, 501 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: because he he makes a fantastic point that if you're 502 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: that interested in something and you're already perhaps creating images 503 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: in your mind of what the potentials could be for 504 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: the things you're seeing or studying, you may already have drink, like, 505 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: had too much of the kool aid yourself, and you're 506 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: gonna see things that aren't really there because you you're 507 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: going to have confirmation biases, bias problems, and all kinds 508 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: of other issues in that regard, and that that does 509 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: make sense. Also that can go both ways, right, right, 510 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: So someone can say, I mean the most some of 511 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: the most irritating, irritating mistakes and critical thinking come from 512 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: people who consider themselves skeptics. And I think that being 513 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: a skeptic automatically means extraordinary things cannot exist. Just shoot 514 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: it down right, right, It's it's weird, and it's difficult 515 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: to be objective, and people people constantly think that objectivity 516 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: is in the eye of the beholder. Objectivity is the 517 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: process by which someone comes to agree with what I believe. Right, 518 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: That's that's the mistake we make. But Pope is out there, 519 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, he is an author. You can 520 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: find his books online, you can see interviews with him, 521 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: and he is one of many ufologists. There's there's one 522 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: important point though about about Pope and ufologists in general, 523 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: that our complaint department made while he's getting coffee and 524 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: we're getting ready to record talking about the strickmeister, Yes, 525 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: I complained department. Jonathan thought Strickland at how stuff works 526 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: dot Com. The quiz the Quister. That's the that's sort 527 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: of an alter ego. But yeah, yeah, we still call 528 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: on Jonathan strictly the Quister. It's very confusing. It's very 529 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: strange you have him on this show. Yeah, when are 530 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: you going to come on in Ridiculous History? Matt? When 531 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: when do you want to go on the show? That's 532 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: not up to me, Guys, what do you want to 533 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: talk about? Is it? Nick? Pope? Do we have to 534 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: check with Nick? I'm here, all right, all right, well 535 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: we'll tap you what We'll tap you for that in 536 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: the very near future, because we're getting people requesting it 537 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: pretty heavily at this point, and we have to. We 538 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: have to do it before you are on some more adventures. Yeah, 539 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: as long as you make you let me appear as 540 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: the what was it, the the Southern genie in the 541 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: bottle or whatever you will? You do it in your 542 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: mint Julip voice. Yeah, that's I think everything is predicated 543 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: on that. Okay, alright, done deal. So what exactly what 544 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: great point did our uh did our complaint department bring up? 545 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. A breath, 546 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: let's do this alright, alright, Yeah, that's right. Stuff they 547 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. You pay for the whole seat, 548 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: but you only need the edge, i'd say, Scott Benjamin line. 549 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: So what Jonathan pointed out, and he is one of 550 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: the more of our colleagues and cohort, he falls more 551 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 1: on the skeptical side pretty clearly, and he said that 552 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: he believes there's a difference between professional and credible, and 553 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: we often conflate the two. So a professional upologist doesn't 554 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: necessarily have to be a credible uthologist. They're just someone 555 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: who is paid to investigate these things. And I thought 556 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: I thought that was a point that we had to 557 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: mention at least once in this show. Now we're not 558 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: We're not calling into question gen anybody's credibility at this point, 559 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: but we are saying that just because someone is paid 560 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: to do something does not mean they are automatically the 561 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: best at it. Right. With that being said, we would 562 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: like to empower you. If you are listening now and 563 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: you say, guys, thanks for giving me the lay of 564 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: the land. I wanna I wanna do this UFO stuff. 565 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: I want to be a ufologist. I don't have time 566 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: to mess around with the online studies I've I've read 567 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: some books, But I think the best way to learn 568 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: about UFOs is on the job experience, just like Nick Pope. Well, 569 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: we have some leads for you. The first one is 570 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: are you a member of move On, the mutual UFO 571 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: network already? If you are, you're probably paying around sixty 572 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: dollars a year for membership there. Um. And what you 573 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: can do is, once you become an mender member, you 574 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: can talk to your state director, so you can send 575 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: an email out to the person that's the director of 576 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: move On near you. You get a copy of this 577 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: move On Field Investigators Manual. You study the manual. It's 578 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: pretty big. Let's see, you can order one here, Um, 579 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: where is it? Where I'm try I'm looking for it online? 580 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: Here we go, Here we go. Hard copy Field Investigators 581 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 1: Manual only cost you a hundred and five dollars US. 582 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: So far we're at about a hundred and seventy dollars UM, 583 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: which is more well, no, it's less than that. First 584 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: of course we were talking about pounds. Yeah, let's see. 585 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: Oh no, the other one was like, what one hundred 586 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: dollars something like that. So depending on where you land 587 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: in there, then once you've done that and you've studied 588 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: your manual really hard. You can complete the Volunteer and 589 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: Field Investigator Orientation program on the mouf On University uh 590 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: and then another thing, another opportunity you can have your 591 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 1: is to mentor with a licensed mouf On Field investigator, 592 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: which is kind of cool. Is that cost extra? I 593 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: don't know, but you all you have to do is 594 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: contact your state director and coordinate with somebody. But you 595 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: can just do it right along. I guess. I think 596 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: they have meetups where you can kind of just go 597 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: check out the lay of the land and have a 598 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: little meet and greet. Yes, I'd be into that, Yeah, 599 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: I would. I would love for us to go there. Absolutely. 600 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: Is there a chapter here in Atlanta? Yes? Really, I 601 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: don't know. I honestly don't know, guys, but we can 602 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: look it up. I'm assuming there has to be something, 603 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: at least regional. There's a Georgia meetup. Dot com says 604 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: there's a mouf On Georgia meet up that's happening on 605 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: August four. Way, that's four days before my birthday. That's 606 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: my mind exploding. Where it is. Oh, it's in Tucker 607 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: right off, that's totally in our neighborhood. Go hang let 608 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: me check with Paul. Paul, do you want to go 609 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: with us. It's a Saturday. Paul nodded, and my smile 610 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: and a nod. Alright, the double whammy from Paul. Well, 611 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: if you've got dec Inton, then we have to we 612 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: have to see if we can make it to this 613 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: thing will be a great experience. So there we go. 614 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: You can get firsthand experience even with a mentor investigating 615 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: reports of UFOs under the auspice of the Mutual UFO 616 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: Network or mouf on. And again it is not free. 617 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,959 Speaker 1: It is a rather significant investment. It is. But let's 618 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: say you're not in the US, well, you're still in 619 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: LUCK the British UFO Research Organization or you like this, 620 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: No Boufora offers a similar program. And we'd like to 621 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: hear about other countries programs, because I imagine there are 622 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: other European communities or institutions that have stuff like this. 623 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: There's probably some stuff like this in Canada as well 624 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: as in parts of South America, Central America, maybe some 625 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: parts of Africa as well. We want to know, we 626 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: want to know what's going on in your neck of 627 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: the global woods. These licenses, by the way, are self 628 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: determined by these groups. So it's not like, for instance, 629 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: how you would get a pilot's license that allows you 630 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 1: to fly in different countries. You know what I mean, 631 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: it's up to that. It's organization by organization. Last thing 632 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: to say about that, move on, meet up? Sorry to 633 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: it's free to the public. Oh nice. Um, I'm gonna 634 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: let's blow this thing up. See how many people we 635 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: can get there? Do you do? You want to do 636 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: that or you just want to let it If people 637 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: are interested, they'll find it. And who knows when this 638 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 1: episode will actually come out, that's true. Need to put 639 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: it out before August, we do, all right, Okay, yeah, 640 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: let's blow it up, Matt. What's what are the deeds? 641 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: It's at the let's see CEO F. E. R. Cofer Library. Oh, 642 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 1: there's an address. You only put this address and put 643 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: it out in the world. Man. It's at fifty two 644 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: thirty four Lovista Road in Tucker, Georgia, the Tucker Reed H. 645 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: Koeper Library. There it is, right, Yeah, let's let's do it. 646 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: Let's go all right, it's down it's down the street 647 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: from us. I think I've actually been to this library, 648 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: you know. I think I have to not during a 649 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: move on. Don't want to give away how close in 650 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: proximity I am to that area, but you've been there, 651 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: you're familiar. This is cool. We're actually this spontaneously is happening, folks. 652 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: We have organically decided that we're going to take a 653 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: field trip and if you are in the area, we 654 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: would love to see you there. And if not, you 655 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: can experience it vicariously through us, because I'm sure we'll 656 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: report back unless we totally flake on this. But we've 657 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: we've we've codified it in podcast stone, so we have 658 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,320 Speaker 1: to we have to follow through. Now it's basically written 659 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: in our own blood, this agreement. This is awesome. So 660 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: so we are going to get We're gonna learn about 661 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: move on firsthand. We're going to hear from people who 662 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: are active in these investigations and hear about their journeys. 663 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: There are also, as several of our listeners already know, 664 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: numerous groups and organizations studying various specific aspects of unidentified 665 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: aerial phenomenon, and you can join these groups in person 666 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: or online. They provide literature and other resources that could 667 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: be great of great value to you if you're abuding. 668 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: You Ethologists It's also no secret that there's a lot 669 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: of misleading info out there in this field, and so 670 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: the burden of differentiating between legitimate research and pure entertainment 671 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: is going to fall squarely on the shoulders of the 672 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: individuals or groups researching this stuff. You know what I mean. 673 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: It's it's the like you can read a book about 674 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: algebra and pretty much trust that you don't have to 675 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: double check a lot of the text. It's not the 676 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: case here, you know, all right? Nowadays, many academic studies 677 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: of UFO phenomenon can be classified as primarily sociological or 678 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: anthropological studies, not of the sightings themselves, but of the 679 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: psychology of the witnesses. This is a trend We've noticed 680 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: a lot, and it's it happens in other categories of 681 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: things would be called fringe research or conspiracy theories. It's 682 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: an immensely valuable undertaking. I'm not trying to ding it 683 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: for that, but we can't conflate it with studies of 684 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: sightings or reports themselves. It's a shift in the narrative, 685 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And it's a it's kind 686 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: of like one example, tell me what you think about this. 687 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if this matches one to one. But 688 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 1: I would say writing or studying solely the psychological or 689 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,839 Speaker 1: sociological trends of someone or some group of people who 690 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: report seeing UFOs, it's a lot like how It's as 691 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: if you're writing about how people feel about a song 692 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: or its cultural impact and saying it's the same thing 693 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: as writing about the structure of the song. It's not interesting. Yeah, No, 694 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: I like that. That's kind of what I was saying 695 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 1: at the top of the show to how and you. 696 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: You you also said when you talk about the ufology 697 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: as a field, you presuppose the discovery of actual UFOs, 698 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: which turns it into something else at that point, doesn't 699 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: It's more like I foology, you know. So there's a 700 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: lot of leap of faith kind of activity going on 701 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: with this whole field of study. But I like the 702 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 1: more sociological version of it. That interests me more than 703 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 1: trying to get the credentials to be a UFO hunter. 704 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: I think just with a little imagination and and go 705 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 1: get arness and that journalistic spirit we talked about with 706 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: Buddy Pope. I think he kind of armed and dangerous 707 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 1: to go after the stuff yourself. If it really intrigues you. 708 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: You know, I would say, speaking of Pope, some of 709 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: on his website right now if you go check it out. 710 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: I don't remember the r L, but just search Nick 711 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: Pope and it's right up there with the WICKI and 712 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: he discusses how he's taken after all this time, taking 713 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: more of a big picture view of a lot of 714 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: this stuff and heat. That's exactly what he's looking at now, 715 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,919 Speaker 1: the sociological meaning of even even conspiracy theories, like he 716 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: says that on his web page. Why why do we 717 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 1: as a culture tend to believe in conspiracy theories? That's 718 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts about our show is that 719 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: very discussion. And that's what he wants to study now, 720 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: and he thinks there should be bigger funded studies on that, 721 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: and those those things are on the way. I would say, 722 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: we had, you know, we've had people call us off 723 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: air to do interviews about this kind of thing, you know, 724 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: and you've been doing some lately. We I think we're 725 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: gonna end up doing more. To be honest with you, 726 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know where it's gonna go 727 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: for us. I hope that we I don't The Zoo 728 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: crew one was a lot of fun. Uh yeah, we're 729 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 1: we might be back on there too. I'm trying to 730 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: drag you guys on there. I want to do a 731 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: morning zoo show. It's it's a thing. Can I Can 732 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: I hit the air the air horn button? They do, 733 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: They're in charge of the sound. They're actually pretty clear 734 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,280 Speaker 1: about it too. This was a thing. Yeah man, so 735 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 1: um yeah, so you know we love that stuff anyway, 736 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: we can communicate the message and we have. We have 737 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: a great time in those things. Because, to steal the 738 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 1: old line from Fox News, now, more than ever, a 739 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: lot of things that were considered implausible are becoming increasingly 740 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: provable and plausible, right because we jumped timelines and now 741 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,400 Speaker 1: we're in an alternate universe. We're in a we have 742 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,799 Speaker 1: become our own breakaway society. Is that what they bring 743 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,799 Speaker 1: it back? Right? Okay, So, like any serious academic, a 744 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: true UFO researcher is not setting out with a predetermined conclusion. Obviously, 745 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: this means a good investigator is not sitting down and saying, 746 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: how can I prove this craft was made by previously 747 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: unacknowledged extraterrestrial civilization, But just as importantly, it also means 748 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,359 Speaker 1: that person is not sitting down and saying, how can 749 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,840 Speaker 1: I disprove that this is unusual? You know what I 750 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: mean what they're doing is they're doing exactly what Nick 751 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,240 Speaker 1: Pope did, which is getting all the data, sponging up everything, 752 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,880 Speaker 1: and then following it to approvable conclusion. So it's no 753 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: surprise that most UFO investigators have found numerous mundane explanations 754 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 1: for sightings. And that's a great thing. I mean, I 755 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: know it sounds like a party pooper thing to say, 756 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,439 Speaker 1: but it's it's fantastic because the stuff that we can 757 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: prove gives us more information about the inexplicable, the real 758 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: mysterious stuff that five percent, you know. I mean, even 759 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: Project Blue Book couldn't explain everything and they threw a 760 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 1: ton of money at it. Gotta say, guys, there have 761 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 1: been humans that have been fascinated by looking up in 762 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: the sky and seeing strange things for a long time. Now, 763 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: let's say a long time. We still haven't been able 764 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 1: to prove anything anywhere. Because if we have, this discussion 765 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't even be happening right now. Would be talking about 766 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: the mid Clorians and the from whatever far away galaxy, um, 767 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: the species that we uncovered, or the ship that landed 768 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,480 Speaker 1: that one time that wasn't at Roswell, or wasn't the 769 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 1: Randalls from Forrest incident. There was a fantastic piece on 770 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:43,919 Speaker 1: This American Life that I heard the other day where 771 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: Ira Glass was interviewing one of his producers whose name 772 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: now escapes me, but he has a degree in astrophysics 773 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: and that was his first kind of career and then 774 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: he became a producer and a journalist for This American Life. 775 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,840 Speaker 1: And he was talking about how he couldn't help but 776 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: be bummed out existentially at the idea that maybe there 777 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 1: is no other life. Uh he And he was trying 778 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,719 Speaker 1: to explain to Ira Glass that from his scientific background, 779 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: with through his filter, through his understanding of you know, astrophysics, 780 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: how this was a really big deal to him. And 781 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 1: Ira Glass kind of couldn't understand. He thought it was 782 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: sort of silly thing to be quote unquote bummed out about. Um. So, 783 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,719 Speaker 1: what is that called the Fermi paradox? The idea that 784 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: if it was there, somebody would have found something by now, 785 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,279 Speaker 1: you know. And then there's also a number that is generated. 786 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,399 Speaker 1: I believe that is the Drake equation, That is the 787 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,920 Speaker 1: likelihood of extraterrestrials that is existing, and they calculated it 788 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: on the show and it was something like point zero 789 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,759 Speaker 1: zero zero zero zero zero zero nine one, so basically zero. 790 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: But it was just interesting that life exists or that 791 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: we will encounter that life. I can't quite remember the 792 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: nature of the equation, but that was where it stands 793 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 1: right now. Apparently based on the scientific research and material 794 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,279 Speaker 1: it's out there, that number changes, but apparently it's very 795 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 1: very close to zero right now. It's just I would 796 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: I would take issue with those people because I think 797 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 1: that next to zero number is probably that Earth would 798 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,319 Speaker 1: be visited or that Earth will visit some other civilization. Right, 799 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,240 Speaker 1: it's the meeting. Yeah, yeah, so that life exists, I'm 800 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: pretty sure that's almost a certainty. Oh. That came up 801 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 1: to in in the in the piece where it was 802 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,640 Speaker 1: like would you be cool if it was just like 803 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,840 Speaker 1: maybe an amiba, Like does it have to be a 804 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 1: sentient creature that you can communicate with? Like where do 805 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,799 Speaker 1: you draw the line of this like existential bummer kind 806 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: of thing? Right, So that's a big question here too, 807 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,760 Speaker 1: And it's interesting. It's all the time scale problem, buddy, Yeah, 808 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's certain that there is some form of 809 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,279 Speaker 1: life somewhere out in the universe just because of the 810 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: room is too big for their not to be. But 811 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,439 Speaker 1: because the room is so big, this room being the universe, uh, 812 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 1: there's virtually no chance that we will ever ever run 813 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: into them. I love I love the idea of humanity 814 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,560 Speaker 1: stumbling upon some ancient relic and it's very sad and 815 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,839 Speaker 1: bitter sweet, but it's still really important. Like, you know 816 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,879 Speaker 1: what if someone finally lands on Mars and then they 817 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:15,479 Speaker 1: find like the equivalent of alien graffiti Zorolac was here 818 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,359 Speaker 1: or whatever. That's first off, that's the most important thing 819 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 1: that ever happened automatically in human history. And secondly, it's 820 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 1: one of the loneliest things. What happened to Zorlac. Dude, 821 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,959 Speaker 1: he made it to Earth with that one ship full 822 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,480 Speaker 1: of d N d N A and then seated the 823 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,800 Speaker 1: whole planet with it and seeing Alien Covenant or whatever 824 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:45,000 Speaker 1: it was Prometheus. Yeah. So if in conclusion for today's episode, 825 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: thanks for coming along with us on this ride. If 826 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,919 Speaker 1: you want to become a ufologist, one of your first 827 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,080 Speaker 1: and most significant steps is going to be determining an 828 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: area of focus. Do you want to concentrate on a 829 00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: specific event like that aerial rule siting, and or do 830 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 1: you want to focus on a type or genre of events. 831 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,839 Speaker 1: Do you prefer to focus on a related trend, such 832 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: as the psychology of witnesses, even though this would not 833 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,920 Speaker 1: in itself be UFO research so much as sociological research. 834 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,160 Speaker 1: And then after determining that you want to read widely, 835 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,359 Speaker 1: we found a great starting point for anybody who's looking 836 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,719 Speaker 1: for a good bibliography on serious UFO research. It's called 837 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:34,400 Speaker 1: UFO Literature for the Serious Ufologist. It's by George M. Eberhardt, 838 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: and it lists all kinds of different books and articles 839 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,680 Speaker 1: on this particular subject and will help you get started. 840 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,840 Speaker 1: You can also there are a couple places online that 841 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,879 Speaker 1: you can find, but this is a really we would 842 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,359 Speaker 1: recommend this place. Yeah, it's it was I think it's 843 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,879 Speaker 1: I want to say it's from which will, which means 844 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 1: it's going to be a little bit dated, but it 845 00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 1: has some as some solid some solid gold classic hits. Yeah. 846 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 1: Basically a bibliography that's going to get you on your feet. Yeah. 847 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: And you also want to join organizations and groups with 848 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: similar focus areas like the meet up Matt just found 849 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,759 Speaker 1: for us on air move on only seventy dollars a year. Yeah, 850 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,000 Speaker 1: attend conferences, correspond with fellow researchers, become a part of 851 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: the community. And while the online courses we found do 852 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,000 Speaker 1: still exist, they're not the only operations around. For example, 853 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,880 Speaker 1: and this is more alien life than UFO related, But 854 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: for example, Harvard has a free online course called super 855 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 1: Earths and Life that combines multiple disciplines to examine the 856 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,000 Speaker 1: possibility of life on other planets. But let's send on 857 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,480 Speaker 1: this note, we would like to hear from you. Do 858 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 1: you consider yourself a ufologist? What sort of studies have 859 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,719 Speaker 1: you found to be helpful? What are some tips or 860 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,879 Speaker 1: tricks you might have for your fellow listeners who are 861 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: considering pursuing this research. That's really great. Please please righte in, 862 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,879 Speaker 1: let us know, send us uh, letuls say, call us 863 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,839 Speaker 1: and tell us what you're like, what you think these 864 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:06,960 Speaker 1: places are that you need to go or things you 865 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,239 Speaker 1: need to read. We are one eight three three st 866 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,719 Speaker 1: d w y t K. We still need more messages 867 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,880 Speaker 1: before we can make a full episode with your voices 868 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,960 Speaker 1: on it, so we can get your voice one nine 869 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,959 Speaker 1: that came in today. We did, but we need more, 870 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,480 Speaker 1: we need more, So greedy for your messages, fuel the 871 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,759 Speaker 1: machine of your own voice. That number is eight three 872 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,759 Speaker 1: three seven eight three nine nine eight five. You can 873 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,400 Speaker 1: also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And if 874 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to do any of that stuff, you 875 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,239 Speaker 1: can just do it the old fashioned way, the new 876 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,880 Speaker 1: old fashioned way. Send us an email. We are conspiracy 877 00:53:44,000 --> 00:54:05,840 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com