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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from housetop works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline

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Speaker 1: and I'm Kristin Kristen. I was talking to a group

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Speaker 1: of young women are our age, young ladies who were

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Speaker 1: discussing the topic of anger, women in anger, and we

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Speaker 1: we sort of got on the topic because one one

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Speaker 1: of the women was saying, you know, I've just been

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Speaker 1: feeling so angry lately, and not at a person or

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Speaker 1: at a thing, or just with road rage, but just

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Speaker 1: sort of bubbling over with anger in general. Does anyone

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Speaker 1: else feel this way? And how can I combat it?

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Speaker 1: And I came back with, you know, hey, lady, I

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Speaker 1: actually feel the same way. And I didn't really want

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Speaker 1: to talk about it because, you know, nobody wants to

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Speaker 1: seem like a negative Nancy. Nobody wants to come off

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Speaker 1: as some really negative, angry person, especially with all of

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Speaker 1: the different types of research that have been done on

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Speaker 1: how women are perceived when they're angry versus men. You

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Speaker 1: could do, you could get into a whole thing with it,

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Speaker 1: which we will. But so I thought it would be

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Speaker 1: a great topic to look into. But as I was

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Speaker 1: doing some research as Christian and I were researching, we

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Speaker 1: really did not find anything that jumped out at us

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Speaker 1: as far as a trend piece or anything about women

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Speaker 1: in our generation experiencing more anger, less anger, different anger

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Speaker 1: than women in the past have. Right, there's some scientific

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Speaker 1: research that will get into into the biological sex differences

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Speaker 1: and some socialization factors that get into that, um, but

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Speaker 1: there wasn't that much digging into culturally this idea of

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Speaker 1: the angry woman, and especially how you know, if you

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Speaker 1: think about um, in feminist circles, how often are women

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Speaker 1: liberal women criticize this angryef eminence and it's such a

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Speaker 1: bad thing if we're angry. And then there's also the

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Speaker 1: tripe going beyond all of this, of say the angry

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Speaker 1: black woman, where it's like, oh, be careful not to

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Speaker 1: rile her because you'll just spiral right out of control. Um,

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Speaker 1: So let's let's get into this anger and maybe circle

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Speaker 1: back to anger in adult women. Because yeah, similar to you, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: I was really surprised at the gap of where are

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Speaker 1: the angry women and we just not want to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, well, I mean I am surprised just

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Speaker 1: because I feel like there are a lot of things

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Speaker 1: today with our generation and where we are as far

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Speaker 1: as in the workplace and trying to I mean, how

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Speaker 1: many articles have been written about women trying to balance

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Speaker 1: everything in their lives, but where are the articles about

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Speaker 1: like how that actually can make us feel. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: let's start from a very basic point of what is anger?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think everybody knows the feeling of anger

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Speaker 1: and the effects of anger, but scientifically speaking, anger is

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Speaker 1: an emotional state that consists of feelings of irritation, annoyance, fury,

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Speaker 1: or rage, and heightened activation or arousal of the autonomic

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Speaker 1: nervous system. Right, so where does anger come from? When

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Speaker 1: does it jump up in our system? Usually anger results

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Speaker 1: either from violations of expectations that we have or blocking

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Speaker 1: our goals, and it sparks in the brain so quickly

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Speaker 1: it takes the brain lesten too seconds to process anger.

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Speaker 1: And it activates the amygdala, the frontal lobe, which is

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Speaker 1: our seat of reasoning, our fight or flight response. And

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Speaker 1: and thankfully there's a hormone called a set of coline

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Speaker 1: that once our anger starts to ebb, it brings us

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Speaker 1: back down from the edge of the cliff. Oh and

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Speaker 1: even just thinking about that physiological feeling of anger is

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Speaker 1: making me tense. Well, I wonder if that's what's going

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Speaker 1: on when I'm in traffic. I've been doing so ever

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Speaker 1: since I got back from vacation, I have been trying

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Speaker 1: to do some deep breathing in traffic, like anytime anyone

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Speaker 1: cuts me off, because hello, it's Atlanta, So it happens

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Speaker 1: every two seconds. Um, I try to take that deep breath,

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Speaker 1: and I feel that immediate calming sensation. So I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that's the hormone or if that's just me taking

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Speaker 1: a breath, or maybe just a combination of both. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I mean the thing. I don't know about you,

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Speaker 1: but for me, anger is sort of a frightening emotional

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Speaker 1: reaction because it feels so uncontrollable. And maybe it's because

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Speaker 1: it's considered a primitive human reaction, right. Rich pifer Is,

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Speaker 1: the president of the National Anger Management Association, wrote that

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Speaker 1: anger activates the primitive human brain, referred to as the

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Speaker 1: limbic system, which is automatic and impulsive. And this is

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Speaker 1: going off of something that T. D. Kemper wrote in seven,

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Speaker 1: basically saying that anger has actual evolutionary value. It's been

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Speaker 1: with us forever, present in our early life as children.

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Speaker 1: It has cross cultural universality and has differentiated autonomic patterns

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Speaker 1: in our brains from other emotions. Yeah, it's so very

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Speaker 1: distinct and so very common. Some surveys find that Americans

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Speaker 1: report feeling anger one to two days per week. But

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Speaker 1: I mean there are also some sites that say that

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Speaker 1: up to a third of us, I think, report feeling

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Speaker 1: angry every single day. I have those weeks, Yeah, it happens.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes those are not good weeks. No, not good weeks.

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Speaker 1: That's when you bring out the box of wine. But

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Speaker 1: the interesting thing about anger too, when you think about

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Speaker 1: from an emotional standpoint, is that it's a very social emotion.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times, if you're just sitting in a

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Speaker 1: room by yourself, you know, not on the internet, just

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Speaker 1: just hanging out, anger is not going to be all

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Speaker 1: of that present. Probably it's usually when other people get

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Speaker 1: involved that anger tends to spark more often. Right. Scott Scheiman,

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Speaker 1: who is from the univer City of Toronto and wrote

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Speaker 1: the anger chapter in the Handbook of the Sociology of Emotions,

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Speaker 1: which I would love to go back and read about

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Speaker 1: the other emotions, uh talks about the fact that common

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Speaker 1: elicitors of anger include perceived or actual insult, injustice, betrayal,

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Speaker 1: in equity, unfairness, goal impediments, the incompetent actions of another

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Speaker 1: which is pretty much why I'm angry all the time,

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Speaker 1: um and being the target of another person's verbal or

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Speaker 1: physical aggression. And the big reason for anger is actions

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Speaker 1: that threaten an individual's self concept, identity, or public image.

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Speaker 1: So again we see those common themes coming up over

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Speaker 1: and over again of expectations being violated, control factors, other

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Speaker 1: people coming in the way of what we need to

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Speaker 1: get done. And so no wonder anger arises quite often

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Speaker 1: at the workplace as a result of mary Ridge relationships, parenting,

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Speaker 1: and so forth. Whenever you're getting all those people in

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Speaker 1: a room together, I'm going to get angry, right, And

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Speaker 1: I mean that's not even mentioning or going into like

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Speaker 1: the gender and power divides yet. I mean, of you know,

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Speaker 1: all of those multifacined aspects of the workplace, of marriage, relationships.

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Speaker 1: But you know, well, anger can be definitely negative because

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Speaker 1: you know, excessive anger does affect your mental and physical health.

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Speaker 1: There are positive aspects of it, I mean, to a degree.

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Speaker 1: It can help motivate you. Sure, I mean, when you

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Speaker 1: feel so angry it can push you forward to finding

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Speaker 1: a solution, right exactly. That's actually, I mean, anger is

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Speaker 1: sort of kind of what drove me to leave my

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Speaker 1: newspaper job. I mean, you know, I just got I

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Speaker 1: just got one more email. I just got one more

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Speaker 1: terrible office space kind of email, and then I was done. Well. Also,

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Speaker 1: I mean so in addition to motivating you to possibly

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Speaker 1: improve your situation, anger can also increase your sense of control.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have you experienced, maybe not

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Speaker 1: like super excessive negative anger, but like a degree of

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Speaker 1: anger that makes you think, you know what, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do something about this today. Then that is very positive. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember distinctly when I was probably sixteen seventeen years

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Speaker 1: old in high school and the first time that I

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Speaker 1: got mad at my parents. I mean, granted it was this,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of a teen rebellion acting out sort

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Speaker 1: of thing, but I got angry, and I got loud,

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Speaker 1: and I felt that sense of control for the first

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Speaker 1: time of saying, oh I own this room now, and

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Speaker 1: I'm being very angry, okay, And it was I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it was a nightmare for my parents at the time,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, there was that distinct feeling of like, now

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna do this well, But that is

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Speaker 1: a feeling I think that maybe you know, we're about

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Speaker 1: to get into gender issues here. That feeling of like

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Speaker 1: taking control, I think is what a lot of women

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Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable with. Absolutely. Um, it's interesting when you look

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Speaker 1: at how common anger might be between men and women.

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Speaker 1: It's not so different. It's not that men are angrier

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Speaker 1: than women or vice versa. The difference between anger and

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Speaker 1: men and women really comes down to the way that

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Speaker 1: we experience it. So our gender, our sex affects how

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Speaker 1: we perceive anger, ours and others, whether it's positive or negative,

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Speaker 1: but also how we express it. Now. Stereotypes that were

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Speaker 1: all very familiar with about emotions say that women have

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Speaker 1: less self control with emotions, whereas men are more buttoned up.

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Speaker 1: You know, women were always like weeping and asking for

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Speaker 1: chocolate and crying on our best friend's shoulder, and men,

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Speaker 1: you know, they man up in they're they're all tough.

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Speaker 1: But Shiman, who we mentioned earlier, says that anger might

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Speaker 1: be the exception to that emotion stereotype. It's definitely considered

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Speaker 1: a male masculine emotion, and so perhaps men are more

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Speaker 1: comfortable with expressing anger, and there are often these gender

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Speaker 1: scripts that helped shape emotional regulation, and that women are

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Speaker 1: expected to not show their anger or else risk being

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Speaker 1: labeled as hostile, neurotic, or unladylike, whereas men and boys

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Speaker 1: are expected to be overt. No, you know, that's my

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Speaker 1: impression of an angry man. You didn't get it, um.

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Speaker 1: And there are some interesting studies that have been done

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Speaker 1: looking at how we perceive the an angry emotion on

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Speaker 1: someone's face, and and there was one that showed people

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Speaker 1: just androgynous faces, not particularly masculine or feminine, and people

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Speaker 1: rated those faces that had angry expressions on them as

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Speaker 1: masculine and those depicting sadness or happiness as feminine. And

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Speaker 1: so no wonder, Caroline. Feminists are so often labeled as

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Speaker 1: just angry as an insult because our outright expression of

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Speaker 1: anger is a direct violation of gender norms. Interesting, it's

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Speaker 1: daring to be angry. Yeah, exactly, just like you did. No,

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Speaker 1: I know, well, that's kind of the bad side of anger.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm sure whatever I was arguing, I

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Speaker 1: don't even remember what I was arguing with my parents about.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sure it was something along the lines of

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Speaker 1: me wanting to stay out later than I should have. Well,

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Speaker 1: darnet dad gummant dad gummint um. Well, so, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have these gender stereotypes, but it's not like we

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Speaker 1: don't act according to them. Men do tend to be

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Speaker 1: aggressive and impulsive, and Dr Raymond Giuseppi found that men

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Speaker 1: actually had more of a revenge motive to their anger,

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Speaker 1: so they're they're pretty driven in their anger, whereas when

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Speaker 1: women are angry, we talk more about our feelings and

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Speaker 1: stay angry longer. We are more resentful and more likely

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Speaker 1: to just write off another person because they've made us mad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And when I read that, it totally resonated with me,

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Speaker 1: because you know, I've seen this happen. I may or

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Speaker 1: may not have been guilty of at least making that

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Speaker 1: threat in anger of like, well, you know, you'll just

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Speaker 1: be gone. I just don't have to deal with you anymore.

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Speaker 1: And in my mind, that kind of anger of just

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Speaker 1: eliminating a person writing somebody off to me, that's far

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Speaker 1: more powerful than throwing a punch or just yelling and

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Speaker 1: stomping out. I've done it. I wonder if it's because

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Speaker 1: like We watched so much Oprah where they talk about

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Speaker 1: toxic people, you know, like cutting toxic people out of

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Speaker 1: your life. But I've done it. I mean I think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: have people done it in an overreacting way? Yeah? Probably,

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Speaker 1: but it does It does feel good when someone's making

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Speaker 1: you angry and you have that realization of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: but you make me angry all the time that when

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Speaker 1: you finally do write that person off, I mean, maybe

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Speaker 1: you're not as angry anymore. And you know what that

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Speaker 1: circles back to is increasing that sense of control there

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Speaker 1: you because you're like, oh wait, I actually don't have

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Speaker 1: to deal with you. Maybe we should table toxic people

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Speaker 1: for another one. Not to say that it's always you

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Speaker 1: know that people are always deserving of being written off

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Speaker 1: any who. How Um, there was an interesting study though

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Speaker 1: that was conducted. It was a little bit dated, but

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Speaker 1: it was one of the first groundbreaking looks at where

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Speaker 1: women's anger tends to stem from. And it was conducted

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Speaker 1: by psychologist Sandra Thomas, and she identified three major roots

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Speaker 1: of women's anger, which speaks volumes about these gender dynamics

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Speaker 1: because it's powerlessness, injustice and the irresponsibility of other people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so give us equality in the workplace and put your

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Speaker 1: dishes away. That's right, yeah, But I'm seriously like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to be glib. When I read irresponsibility of

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Speaker 1: other people, I was like, I know, right, would people

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Speaker 1: just clean up after themselves? It would be it would

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Speaker 1: be nice anyway, So moving on now. There's a study

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Speaker 1: publishing the journal Aggressive Behavior published in February two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six that looked at differences in anger provoking behaviors

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Speaker 1: and verbal insults, and it found that men were more

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Speaker 1: likely to consider sort of physical things as anger provoking. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And in the examples given in the study, those were

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Speaker 1: women exhibiting physical aggression or a man hurting another person um,

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Speaker 1: whereas women were more likely to mention condescending or insensitive

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Speaker 1: behaviors regardless of whether it's coming from a man or

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Speaker 1: a woman, along with verbal aggression as being more anger provoking.

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Speaker 1: I mean. And of course they also found physical aggression

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Speaker 1: to trigger the anger, but the verbal stuff and the

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Speaker 1: more behavioral stuff came into play a lot more for women.

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Speaker 1: And also for women, one of the big differences was

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Speaker 1: accusations of promiscuity, whole split shaming. Hey, what's up? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no wonder, it makes it makes us angry. Um. Dishonesty

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Speaker 1: just just dishonesty, plane and simple provoked more anger when

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Speaker 1: coming from a woman. Huh. Oh lying women, lying women interesting? Um.

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Speaker 1: One thing you know, we we we talked about gender

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Speaker 1: divides in the workplace a lot, and you know, anger

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Speaker 1: is no different. It's something that people experience at work.

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Speaker 1: Um uh. Studying psychological science from March two thousand eight

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Speaker 1: found that men benefit straight out benefit from anger at work,

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Speaker 1: whereas women do not. Um. Men who expressed anger in

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Speaker 1: a professional context were conferred higher status than men who

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Speaker 1: expressed sadness. So there we have those gender norms. Anger

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Speaker 1: is a normal masculine emotion, where a sadness is considered

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Speaker 1: more feminine. Um. Both men and women conferred lower status

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Speaker 1: on angry female professionals than male was just totally not

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Speaker 1: surprising whatsoever, because if you already have a woman in

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Speaker 1: more of a leadership position, she's already at social risk

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Speaker 1: from having violated those those forms of climbing up the ladder,

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Speaker 1: and then to show anger on top of that, well,

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Speaker 1: she's just going to be considered a shrew. Right. One

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Speaker 1: thing that I thought was really interesting about this study, though,

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Speaker 1: was that women's emotional reactions were attributed to internal characteristics

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Speaker 1: their p m s NG again, whereas men's were attributed

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Speaker 1: to external circumstances. So obviously, if a woman is expressing

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Speaker 1: a masculine emotion like anger, you know, she's got to

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Speaker 1: be like, you know, her her uterus is floating around

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Speaker 1: her body, whereas men probably have a legitimate reason yeah

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Speaker 1: you know, the shipment didn't come, that didn't come in

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Speaker 1: on time or something. But there was an equalizer with

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Speaker 1: all of this. They found that providing an external attribution

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Speaker 1: for the person's anger eliminated gender bias. So if you're

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Speaker 1: able to basically say, oh, okay, well, uh our stock

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Speaker 1: price plummeted today, so that's why he or she is angry,

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Speaker 1: then everyone's like okay, right. But yeah, so that I mean,

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Speaker 1: that is something important to keep in mind, whether you're

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Speaker 1: a man or a woman. At work, people are making

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Speaker 1: really big assumptions about you when you act a certain way.

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Speaker 1: Although I will say, I mean, you know, while this

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Speaker 1: study says that men benefit from anger at work, I

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Speaker 1: imagine that's to a point. Sure. I mean, if you're

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Speaker 1: hitting people and like flipping over desks and creating a

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Speaker 1: toxic environment. Correct, and then I would just write you off.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because I'm ruthless. I mean to write you

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Speaker 1: off in march, straight to the unemployment office. I'll show you. Um.

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Speaker 1: But let's go back to to this idea that women

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Speaker 1: might hold in our anger, stay angrier longer even though

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Speaker 1: we might be quieter, because this might be leading to

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Speaker 1: a higher rate of internalizing disorders. Right. This is coming

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Speaker 1: from psychologist Susan Nolan Hoaxima and Geral L. Rusting, who

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Speaker 1: found that women show higher rates for all mood and

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Speaker 1: anxiety disorders except importantly enough manic episodes. Uh, and that

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Speaker 1: includes depression, and they report feeling more shame, sadness, guilt,

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Speaker 1: and fear, whereas externalizing disorders, things like antisocial personality disorder

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Speaker 1: and substance use disorders are diagnosed more often in men.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to self reporting, women yet again

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Speaker 1: reported just as much anger and hostility as men. So again,

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Speaker 1: we're expressing it, we're experiencing it, probably differently, and so

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Speaker 1: the inconsistency in these findings could be related to the

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Speaker 1: gender differences that elicit anger and that we're more likely

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Speaker 1: to feel shame and sadness. Oh man, that's depressing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I just I feel like it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: mind field. Not only are we kind of discouraged from

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Speaker 1: feeling or breast saying anger, but if we do, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we're more likely to be guilty about it

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Speaker 1: and and ashamed of our strong masculine emotion. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: If I if I let my temper flare and I

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Speaker 1: allowed to another person about it, try to put this delicately,

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Speaker 1: I feel incredibly guilty. It's like it's a cycle. I

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Speaker 1: can predict it almost down to the minute. Well I can't.

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Speaker 1: All right, maybe this says something bad about me. I

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Speaker 1: can't say that when I get actually angry, not just

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Speaker 1: annoyed or whatever. When I get actually angry, I can't

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Speaker 1: say that I feel guilty about it. But I do.

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Speaker 1: It just poisons like the next several hours for me. Right,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's more. I don't feel guilty about feeling angry.

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Speaker 1: I feel guilty if I express it to the target

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Speaker 1: of that anger. Because mavose Caroline can get loud. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm a yeller. Well, I um just drop a lot

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Speaker 1: of f bombs, like uncontrollably. Now, I'm like I had

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Speaker 1: a day a couple last week, a day where I

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Speaker 1: just seriously, like, let loose a string of F bombs

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't even control it. Like I couldn't even

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Speaker 1: It's not like I was making a conscious effort to

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Speaker 1: say F this and F that and F that guy

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Speaker 1: and screw this, and no, I was just I think

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Speaker 1: I don't know how I blacked out for a second.

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Speaker 1: I came to and I was like, man, I said

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Speaker 1: a lot of F bombs, but I've got to go

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Speaker 1: do work now. So well, and then you realize you

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Speaker 1: were live on television. Oh you've been Ashton Kutcher this

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Speaker 1: whole time. Uh No, But seriously, a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of this uh This research has been resonating a

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Speaker 1: lot with my own personal patterns of anger and even

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Speaker 1: just talking publicly about being angry. I'm not calling myself

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Speaker 1: an angry person, but even just acknowledging to the world

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Speaker 1: that I experienced and express anger, sometimes I'm feeling uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, yeah, uh, I guess I think that speaks

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Speaker 1: to our identities are personal, our personal identities, how we

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Speaker 1: think of ourselves, and also how we want to portray

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Speaker 1: ourselves to other people. It feels very vulnerable just to

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Speaker 1: speak honestly about it. But maybe perhaps could it get

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Speaker 1: better as as we get older. Maybe we're just young

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Speaker 1: and crazy, and you know, we just fiery women, and

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Speaker 1: anger will just kind of chill out as we get older. Um. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: but probably not. Most studies have shown honestly that if

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Speaker 1: you're a fiery angry twenty something, you're going to be

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Speaker 1: a fiery angry sixty something. Oh well, and there was

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Speaker 1: also this I'll be curious here from any listeners to

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Speaker 1: fit this demo whether this rings true to you. Sandra

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Speaker 1: Thomas at ut Knoxville to study in January two two,

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Speaker 1: and she found that women in their forties scored significantly

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Speaker 1: higher on anger at work than women of other ages.

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Speaker 1: Their scores were twice as high as men in their forties.

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Speaker 1: I wonder, though, This is my pet theory, is that

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Speaker 1: women in their forties, if you have a job, you're

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Speaker 1: probably also taking care of kids. There's the imbalance a

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Speaker 1: lot of times of the housework. Yeah, you might, you

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Speaker 1: might be a bit angrier. Yeah, I absolutely I thought

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Speaker 1: the same thing when I read that. Um. But as

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Speaker 1: far as Kristen raising our voices and expressing anger to

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Speaker 1: other people, you're in the majority. Um they found in

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Speaker 1: this study. As Thomas found in the study that UM,

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Speaker 1: there were significant age differences for the propensity to overtly

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Speaker 1: express anger. Women in their twenties and thirties had the

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Speaker 1: highest mean score on the total expressed anger scale, leading

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Speaker 1: Thomas to ask whether we're seeing a weakening of traditional

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Speaker 1: gender role socialization. So basically, women are becoming more expressive

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Speaker 1: of anger more often. Yeah, there was speaking of which

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Speaker 1: of very flimsy daily mail, Yes, the daily Fail story

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Speaker 1: that we found on how young girls are fighting and

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Speaker 1: becoming you know, these rambunctious young women, and so we

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Speaker 1: must be angry and crazy? Now what what what to

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Speaker 1: do about it? Which I don't even know if it's

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Speaker 1: worth sighting. Yeah, I just thought it was funny because

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Speaker 1: in all of this was actual academic research about anger

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Speaker 1: and how we express that according to our gender norms. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's like, hey, girls getting bar fights now that means equality,

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Speaker 1: right or something? Now? Moving on, so how do we

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Speaker 1: manage all this anger? We we both acknowledge that it

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Speaker 1: happens to us, cool, it happens to other people, and

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Speaker 1: it's this fully physical mental process that is natural, stilly natural,

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Speaker 1: but we need to we need to manage it. How

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Speaker 1: do we do that right? Well, there are three basic

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Speaker 1: responses to anger. Those are one expression, everything from having

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Speaker 1: a nice, calm discussion to blowing up and yelling a

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Speaker 1: lot of F bombs about something that didn't go your way.

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Speaker 1: Not that I'm being specific. Suppression, which can be holding

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Speaker 1: it in, changing your focus, or letting it go. And

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Speaker 1: you would think that letting it go could be a

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Speaker 1: good thing, but I would think that this refers to

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Speaker 1: like if somebody keeps harping on you or infringing on

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Speaker 1: something and you just continue not to deal with it,

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Speaker 1: that could be a bad thing. But also let's look

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Speaker 1: at management. That's the third one, and that is acknowledging

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Speaker 1: anger as a normal emotion and making choices to improve

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Speaker 1: your situation, not just dropping f bombs, but actually doing

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Speaker 1: something about it. Yeah, there's some of the stuff we

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Speaker 1: read said that venting, like that letting your volcano explode

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Speaker 1: is actually not the best way to express yourself. So

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Speaker 1: the Mayo Clinic, for instance, offers a number of suggestions

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Speaker 1: on healthy anger management, which is as basic as counting

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Speaker 1: to tend and taking a time out before you react,

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Speaker 1: um expressing your anger once you're calm, so you're not

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Speaker 1: being confrontational. Exercise that's something I wholeheartedly believe in. I've

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Speaker 1: talked before about how yoga essentially keeps me saying along

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Speaker 1: with jogging um. Also looking for solutions rather than just

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Speaker 1: looking for a target. Yeah. And one important thing that

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Speaker 1: I try to remember every time I have I try

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Speaker 1: to have a productive conversation with my roommate is to

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Speaker 1: use I statements. Try to avoid criticizing or placing blame um.

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Speaker 1: And also this is a hard one, I think, but

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Speaker 1: don't hold a grudge. Try to forgive and learn from

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Speaker 1: the situation. Also practice relaxation skills things like yoga, help, meditation,

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Speaker 1: you know, napping, um. But also know when to seek help.

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Speaker 1: For instance, the whole conversation that started this topic that

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Speaker 1: we picked. You know, there's a point at which you're

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Speaker 1: not just kind of going through a funk. Maybe you're

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Speaker 1: not just annoyed with you know, traffic or work or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's it's something that maybe has change changed or something

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Speaker 1: that has gotten worse over time, and maybe you're just

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Speaker 1: now noticing it. So you do need to go talk

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Speaker 1: to someone that's perfectly normal and healthy. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: the point of remembering the anger is a normal human

427
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: emotion that has been with us for millennia is really important.

428
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: It also you kind of rationalize things maybe right heat

429
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: at the moment. And I absolutely think that because when I,

430
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: like when I took vacation and I had a minute

431
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: to actually think, you know, a minute to actually sit

432
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: and drink coffee and think, you know, I did reflect

433
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: on the things that had made me angry in my

434
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: life and like, Okay, what what's driving this like crazy

435
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: town feeling? And what can I do to change that stuff?

436
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: You know, not just letting it stew, actually give yourself

437
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: a minute to kind of think about why you're having

438
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: this reaction and what needs to change. Because the thing

439
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: is not managing your anger and just letting it eat

440
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: away at you is not good for your health overall.

441
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: It's probably not good for your relationships either. But just

442
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: physically speaking, a lot of studies have shown how not

443
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: managing your anger in a positive way is possibly worse

444
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: than the health effects of smoking and obesity. Yeah, we

445
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: found a lot of studies from Harvard Um. Most of

446
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: them focused on men. So we'll have to you know, hey,

447
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: listeners out there who do research could you get on this? Um?

448
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: Harvard found that among men with an average age of

449
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: sixty two, the angriest were three times more likely to

450
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: develop heart disease than the most relaxed. And coming from

451
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: John's Hopkins, a study tracked male medical students for thirty

452
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: six years and found that anger and young adulthood emerged

453
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: as a predictor of premature heart disease. Listen to this.

454
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: The angriest students were six times more likely to suffer

455
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: heart attacks by fifty five and three times more likely

456
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: to develop some type of cardiovascular disease. And so I

457
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: can only imagine that the fact that women tend to

458
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: stay angrier longer could have equally dire physical consequences as well.

459
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: I mean, because think about all those physiological facets of anger,

460
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: things like a surge in adrenaline, the stress hormone that

461
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: boost blood pressure and pulse rate, increasing the heart's workload

462
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: and increasing also its need for oxygen. Anger actually makes

463
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: your body work harder, right, It activates platelets, those little

464
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: tiny blood cells that trigger blood cloths, and high anger

465
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: levels can even provoke a spasm in a coronary artery.

466
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: So it's really not a good idea to get angry

467
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: and stay angry for a long period of time. Yeah,

468
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: there was one study we found from July two thousand

469
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 1: three in Psychosomatic Medicine UM, and it suggested that women's

470
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: suppressed anger correlated with cardiovascular and cancer related early mortality,

471
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: and so essentially these women were dying sooner maybe possibly

472
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: related to not expressing that anger. Yeah, so I don't know, man,

473
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: I guess I would sum it up by saying that

474
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: you've got to use anger as a catalyst to look

475
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: internally at things that maybe aren't going your way and

476
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: figure out how you can change them or fix them,

477
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: because if you just stay angry, I mean that has

478
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: some pretty dire consequences. And also maybe focusing on how

479
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: anger can be a positive in those ways that we

480
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: noted in terms of being a motivator to find solutions,

481
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: a warning that something might be wrong you need to

482
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: adjust something in your life, or increasing that sense of control,

483
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: and perhaps as women circling back to the beginning of

484
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: the conversation with you know, women are age saying like,

485
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm angry and I don't know why,

486
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: or you know, feminists who are criticized for being angry

487
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: and like the label of anger being sort of dangled

488
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: over women's heads of like, oh, you don't want to

489
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: come across that way, do you, and maybe saying you

490
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: know what, actually, it's totally fine to be angry. Yeah,

491
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: there are reasons for it. There are definitely reasons for it.

492
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: We're not talking about being irrationally angry, you know, but

493
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: sure maybe it should be okay, more okay for women

494
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: to get angry sometimes. So curious to hear what folks

495
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: have to say about this one. Your thoughts on anger

496
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: expressed kindly? Yeah, don't be angry at it? Yeah. Mom

497
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can send

498
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: your letters. You can also messages on Facebook or tweet

499
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: us at Mom's Stuff podcast. And we've got a couple

500
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: of messages to share with you when we come right

501
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: back from a quick break and now back to our letters. Okay, well,

502
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Elizabeth, who wrote to

503
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: us about our bachelor party episode. She says, I am

504
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: Mormon and so are my friends who are my bridesmaids,

505
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: and as such, we had a stone cold, sober night

506
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: out on the town in Baltimore. We spent first part

507
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: of the day shopping and touring the Inner Harbor, followed

508
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: by a delicious dinner and dessert at a downtown restaurant.

509
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: The night was finished by going to a dueling piano

510
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: bar and enjoying the spectacular musical talents. I had such

511
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: a great time with all of my girlfriends and never

512
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: once thought I was prude or missing out because I

513
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: didn't have penis whistles, binge drink, or watch a male stripper,

514
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: et cetera. In fact, I firmly believe I hadn't even

515
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: better time because of it. No hangover, less expensive. I

516
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: remember all the good times and it felt very classy

517
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 1: and fun. I saw the night as a celebration for

518
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: me and the girls of my upcoming nuptials, and as

519
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: part of my thank you for all of their hard

520
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: work and efforts supporting me along the way. Just food

521
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: for thought for other women who were turned off by

522
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: the current status quo for bachelorette parties. And then she says,

523
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: thanks for the podcast here. You're welcome, and I've been

524
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: listening for a couple of years now and always enjoy

525
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: that it challenges me to think outside my sometimes narrow

526
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: view of the world. And thank you for sharing your

527
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: view with us, Elizabeth and I'm going a Facebook message

528
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: here from Ana and she was writing about our episode

529
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: on office romances, and she has an interesting story to share.

530
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: She says, I currently work in a male dominated work

531
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: environment of brewing, and I am dating my boss. She said,

532
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: when I was going through this, I was extremely happy

533
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: in my job and extremely attracted to my boss. I

534
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: didn't want to lose my job, blues space, or mess

535
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: up the women in brewing image. I needed guidance. I

536
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: really couldn't find any that suggested that the scenario might

537
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: work out. Ultimately, against the advice of almost everyone I knew,

538
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: I decided to trust myself, and so did he. I

539
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: agree with Caroline that working your way to the top

540
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: using sexuality is despicable. I think these days character determines

541
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: the existence of abuse, exploitation, and inequity in the workplace

542
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: dating dynamic. I don't think the formula male manager plus

543
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: female subordinate necessarily equates to those things. Once my manager

544
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: and I decided that we were falling in rub we

545
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: told the CEO and HR. The response was, Okay, we'll

546
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: make this work. We signed one of those cupid type

547
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: contracts and have moved forward. It's been a year now,

548
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: we live together and I can still work with him

549
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: as my manager. I think that the CEO's judgment was

550
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: based on this thought that we were good people with integrity.

551
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: Maybe if we were unscrupulous people, he would not have

552
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: trusted us to engage in what it's now pretty much

553
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: against company policy. But the relationship was never casual, so

554
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: perhaps there was inherent respect to rely on. I suppose

555
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: that if it was merely dating, I wouldn't have trusted

556
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: him as much. So long story short, you can date

557
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: your boss as long as both parties aren't heads. Uh So,

558
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: thanks Danta and Elizabeth and everybody else for writing in

559
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: mom stubb Discovery dot com is where you can send

560
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: your emails. You can also message us on Facebook or

561
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff Podcasts, and you can keep

562
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: up with a steering the week over on tumbler where

563
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com where

564
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: you can follow us and don't forget that you can

565
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: watch us as well. On YouTube YouTube dot com. Stuff

566
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You is where you can go and

567
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe for more on this and thousands

568
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it How stuff works dot com,