1 00:00:15,396 --> 00:00:27,196 Speaker 1: Pushkin. The global pandemic was a boom time for American billionaires, 2 00:00:27,516 --> 00:00:31,076 Speaker 1: who gained a trillion dollars of wealth in twenty twenty alone, 3 00:00:32,396 --> 00:00:35,516 Speaker 1: and as CNBC reported at the height of the pandemic, 4 00:00:36,076 --> 00:00:39,476 Speaker 1: one of those billionaires was fast climbing the list of 5 00:00:39,476 --> 00:00:42,996 Speaker 1: the world's richest people. Elon Musk just past Bill Gates 6 00:00:43,076 --> 00:00:45,996 Speaker 1: become the second richest man in the world, with a 7 00:00:46,036 --> 00:00:49,236 Speaker 1: fortune of over one hundred and twenty eight billion dollars. 8 00:00:50,116 --> 00:00:52,876 Speaker 1: At the start of twenty twenty one, Elon Musk became 9 00:00:52,916 --> 00:00:55,756 Speaker 1: the richest man in the world. Since then, he's been 10 00:00:55,876 --> 00:00:59,116 Speaker 1: jockeying for the top place with other tech giants. As 11 00:00:59,276 --> 00:01:02,316 Speaker 1: NBC reported the spring. Altogether, the worth of those on 12 00:01:02,356 --> 00:01:06,316 Speaker 1: the list is thirteen point one trillion dollars, up from 13 00:01:06,436 --> 00:01:09,956 Speaker 1: eight trillion last year. The rise ring as most the 14 00:01:09,996 --> 00:01:15,076 Speaker 1: world was shut down during the pandemic. Welcome to The 15 00:01:15,156 --> 00:01:18,516 Speaker 1: Evening Rocket. I'm Jill Lapour. I'm a historian, a professor 16 00:01:18,556 --> 00:01:22,276 Speaker 1: at Harvard. This episode, which is called robin Hood, is 17 00:01:22,276 --> 00:01:24,396 Speaker 1: the last in the series I've been hosting about a 18 00:01:24,436 --> 00:01:30,236 Speaker 1: new kind of capitalism. Call it Muskism, extravagant extreme capitalism, 19 00:01:30,636 --> 00:01:36,196 Speaker 1: extra terrestrial capitalism, a form of capitalism influenced by fantasies 20 00:01:36,316 --> 00:01:41,396 Speaker 1: that come from science fiction. During the pandemic, the contrast 21 00:01:41,436 --> 00:01:44,756 Speaker 1: between the dire suffering of the masses and the vast 22 00:01:44,796 --> 00:01:48,716 Speaker 1: increase of wealth among a very few cast Muskism in 23 00:01:48,756 --> 00:01:53,436 Speaker 1: a particularly troubling light. In the US, Bernie Sanders proposed 24 00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:57,396 Speaker 1: the Make Billionaires Pay Act, a one time tax on 25 00:01:57,436 --> 00:02:00,796 Speaker 1: American billionaires to help cover the out of pocket medical 26 00:02:00,796 --> 00:02:05,996 Speaker 1: expenses of ordinary Americans for one year. Musk then got 27 00:02:06,036 --> 00:02:09,036 Speaker 1: into a Twitter war with Sanders. Sanders claimed Musk's well 28 00:02:09,356 --> 00:02:11,916 Speaker 1: had been made possible by billions of dollars in government 29 00:02:11,956 --> 00:02:16,316 Speaker 1: subsidies for his corporations. Musk suggested that Sanders should leave 30 00:02:16,356 --> 00:02:24,716 Speaker 1: him alone because Tesla is saving the planet. Lately, what 31 00:02:24,796 --> 00:02:27,236 Speaker 1: with one thing and another, Elon Musk has been in 32 00:02:27,276 --> 00:02:31,036 Speaker 1: the headlines more or less constantly. He's had phenomenal, really 33 00:02:31,116 --> 00:02:35,556 Speaker 1: almost unbelievable success. The electric car revolution really does seem 34 00:02:35,596 --> 00:02:37,676 Speaker 1: to be coming, and a lot of that is thanks 35 00:02:37,676 --> 00:02:41,076 Speaker 1: to Tesla, to Musk's vision, and to Tesla's commitment to 36 00:02:41,116 --> 00:02:46,996 Speaker 1: renewable energy. Meanwhile, Musk's other company, SpaceX, has spectacularly realized 37 00:02:47,036 --> 00:02:49,996 Speaker 1: the promise of its founding with the success of rockets 38 00:02:50,036 --> 00:02:54,956 Speaker 1: that go up and come down safely, they're reusable, and 39 00:02:55,076 --> 00:02:59,116 Speaker 1: with SpaceX carrying astronauts to the International Space Station. Then 40 00:02:59,156 --> 00:03:03,316 Speaker 1: there's Neuralink, which Musk announced has implanted a computer chip 41 00:03:03,316 --> 00:03:07,156 Speaker 1: in the brain of a live pig named Gertrude. Thebets 42 00:03:07,196 --> 00:03:10,756 Speaker 1: you're hearing are real time signals from the neural link 43 00:03:11,116 --> 00:03:15,996 Speaker 1: in Gertrude's head. In other recent Musk news, Starlink, another 44 00:03:16,036 --> 00:03:20,356 Speaker 1: SpaceX project, launched a record number of satellites, as reported 45 00:03:20,396 --> 00:03:23,516 Speaker 1: by CBS News and Sacramento NAH to a string of 46 00:03:23,596 --> 00:03:27,916 Speaker 1: lights streaking across northern California tonight, and the sky lit up. 47 00:03:27,956 --> 00:03:30,596 Speaker 1: Our newsroom falls lit up as well, bringing off the 48 00:03:30,636 --> 00:03:34,156 Speaker 1: hook with people wondering what are they. It seemed as 49 00:03:34,156 --> 00:03:37,636 Speaker 1: though anytime Musk did anything at all, newsroom phones lit 50 00:03:37,716 --> 00:03:41,876 Speaker 1: up with controversy. Those satellites were designed to bring Internet 51 00:03:41,916 --> 00:03:45,076 Speaker 1: service to the least networked parts of the world, but 52 00:03:45,156 --> 00:03:49,156 Speaker 1: some astronomers said they were ruining the night sky. SpaceX 53 00:03:49,196 --> 00:03:52,996 Speaker 1: believes these fears are overstated and Gertrude the pig. Some 54 00:03:53,116 --> 00:03:57,516 Speaker 1: neuroscientists were dubious about this experiment. One researcher telling the BBC, 55 00:03:57,756 --> 00:04:01,836 Speaker 1: the science was mediocre, and during the pandemic, Musk at 56 00:04:01,836 --> 00:04:04,796 Speaker 1: first opposed the shutdown and vowed to keep his Tesla 57 00:04:04,836 --> 00:04:09,636 Speaker 1: factory open, tweeting in all caps free America. Now Elon 58 00:04:09,716 --> 00:04:13,196 Speaker 1: Musk is escalating his fight with a California county, restarting 59 00:04:13,236 --> 00:04:15,916 Speaker 1: a Tesla factory in Fremont despite a stay at home 60 00:04:15,996 --> 00:04:20,516 Speaker 1: order there. Then, in protest of California's strict regulations, Musk 61 00:04:20,516 --> 00:04:23,876 Speaker 1: announced that he was moving too lightly regulated Texas and 62 00:04:23,996 --> 00:04:28,236 Speaker 1: had decided to build Tesla's gigafactory there too. We approached 63 00:04:28,276 --> 00:04:31,356 Speaker 1: both Tesla and SpaceX for a response on several points 64 00:04:31,356 --> 00:04:33,676 Speaker 1: in the series, but at the time of the recording 65 00:04:33,916 --> 00:04:39,916 Speaker 1: we had not received a reply. If earlier, Elon Musk 66 00:04:39,956 --> 00:04:43,796 Speaker 1: had been Iron Man, a hybrid Silicon Valley Hollywood superhero. 67 00:04:44,516 --> 00:04:47,316 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, he dubbed himself the doge Father 68 00:04:47,836 --> 00:04:51,596 Speaker 1: after the cryptocurrency as if he were head of a cryptomfia. 69 00:04:51,956 --> 00:04:56,076 Speaker 1: A CNBC reported market seemed to hang on his every word. 70 00:04:56,316 --> 00:04:59,196 Speaker 1: One thing we've learned lately is that when Elon Musk tweets, 71 00:04:59,516 --> 00:05:01,796 Speaker 1: the news cycle follows him, and in fact, he does 72 00:05:01,836 --> 00:05:03,756 Speaker 1: have a series of tweets in the past few minutes, 73 00:05:04,116 --> 00:05:08,196 Speaker 1: says I'm selling almost all physical possessions. Will own no house, 74 00:05:08,636 --> 00:05:12,956 Speaker 1: says Las. Stock price is too high, IMMO in my opinion, 75 00:05:13,436 --> 00:05:16,556 Speaker 1: and now give people back their freedom. It's going to 76 00:05:16,596 --> 00:05:19,876 Speaker 1: get attention. Stock now down almost seven percent. In the 77 00:05:19,876 --> 00:05:21,876 Speaker 1: world of Muski is m a single tweet by a 78 00:05:21,916 --> 00:05:25,756 Speaker 1: single person, not an announcement from a central bank, can 79 00:05:25,796 --> 00:05:30,476 Speaker 1: drive a stock pricer hobble a currency market. In January, 80 00:05:30,796 --> 00:05:35,036 Speaker 1: after the insurrection at the US capital Twitter band Donald Trump. 81 00:05:35,756 --> 00:05:38,636 Speaker 1: With Trump gone, Musks seemed to become the loudest voice 82 00:05:38,636 --> 00:05:41,196 Speaker 1: in the room the Love Hate Twitter account to follow. 83 00:05:41,836 --> 00:05:46,676 Speaker 1: If Trump's tweets destabilized American politics, Musk's tweets, as even 84 00:05:46,676 --> 00:05:52,396 Speaker 1: the doge Father himself observed, seemed to be destabilizing financial markets. Meanwhile, 85 00:05:52,396 --> 00:05:55,556 Speaker 1: as Musk, Bezos, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg jockeyed for 86 00:05:55,636 --> 00:05:59,516 Speaker 1: first place in the World's Richest Man contest with inconceivably 87 00:05:59,636 --> 00:06:02,116 Speaker 1: large fortunes, a lot of headlines had to do with 88 00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:05,916 Speaker 1: the fictive quality of money. After all, all forms of 89 00:06:05,916 --> 00:06:09,316 Speaker 1: currency are acts of imagination. As Douglas Adams pointed out 90 00:06:09,356 --> 00:06:12,756 Speaker 1: so well in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the galaxy. In fact, 91 00:06:12,756 --> 00:06:15,556 Speaker 1: there are three freely convertible currencies in the universe, but 92 00:06:15,676 --> 00:06:19,436 Speaker 1: the Alterian dollar has reasonly collapsed, the Flanian pubble bead 93 00:06:19,516 --> 00:06:22,356 Speaker 1: is only exchangeable for other Flanian pubble beads, and the 94 00:06:22,396 --> 00:06:26,196 Speaker 1: trigantic pew doesn't really counted money. I started out this 95 00:06:26,236 --> 00:06:29,356 Speaker 1: series with The Hitchhiker's Guide because Elon Musk read it 96 00:06:29,396 --> 00:06:31,596 Speaker 1: as a kid growing up in South Africa, and he 97 00:06:31,676 --> 00:06:33,996 Speaker 1: cites it all the time, like, for instance, when he 98 00:06:34,036 --> 00:06:36,116 Speaker 1: announced that he plans to name the first ship to 99 00:06:36,196 --> 00:06:39,476 Speaker 1: Mars the Heart of Gold. But The Hitchhiker's Guide is 100 00:06:39,556 --> 00:06:43,876 Speaker 1: also a strange influence on Muskism, partly because Adams was 101 00:06:43,916 --> 00:06:47,876 Speaker 1: so brutally gut wrenchingly funny about the arbitrariness of money 102 00:06:48,036 --> 00:06:51,556 Speaker 1: and the foibles and follies of financial schemers and assorted 103 00:06:51,556 --> 00:06:54,276 Speaker 1: idiot executives. If we could, up a moment, move on 104 00:06:54,356 --> 00:06:57,436 Speaker 1: to the starbitalis school policys, school policy. How can you 105 00:06:57,516 --> 00:07:00,596 Speaker 1: have money if none of you actually produce anything? It 106 00:07:00,676 --> 00:07:04,716 Speaker 1: doesn't grow on tree? And Adams was particularly devastating on 107 00:07:04,756 --> 00:07:07,316 Speaker 1: the subject of the damage done to the natural world 108 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:11,196 Speaker 1: by advanced extractive capitalism, since we decided a few weeks 109 00:07:11,196 --> 00:07:14,396 Speaker 1: ago to adopt leaves of legal tender. We have, of course, 110 00:07:14,476 --> 00:07:18,196 Speaker 1: all the comm immense live also run into a small 111 00:07:18,236 --> 00:07:21,156 Speaker 1: intatient problem on account of the high level of leaf availability. 112 00:07:21,516 --> 00:07:24,796 Speaker 1: So in order to obviate this problem and defectively revalue 113 00:07:24,836 --> 00:07:27,876 Speaker 1: the leaf, we are a badlingbach on an extensive defaiation 114 00:07:27,956 --> 00:07:32,996 Speaker 1: campaign and burned on atists. If you've been following the 115 00:07:33,036 --> 00:07:36,356 Speaker 1: story of cryptocurrency, the scene from The Hitchhiker's Guide might 116 00:07:36,396 --> 00:07:39,916 Speaker 1: sound a little too on the nose. Elon Musk had 117 00:07:39,956 --> 00:07:42,836 Speaker 1: been a real booster of bitcoin. He announced earlier this 118 00:07:42,916 --> 00:07:45,476 Speaker 1: year that Tesla was buying millions of dollars of bitcoin 119 00:07:45,756 --> 00:07:48,436 Speaker 1: and that you could buy a Tesla with bitcoin, until 120 00:07:48,436 --> 00:07:51,796 Speaker 1: he changed his mind, citing the sort of environmental concerns 121 00:07:52,036 --> 00:07:54,956 Speaker 1: that I looked into an earlier episode of The Evening Rocket. 122 00:07:55,636 --> 00:07:59,036 Speaker 1: Turns out that mining bitcoin really is burning down the forests. 123 00:08:02,716 --> 00:08:06,596 Speaker 1: But of course there's a backstory to Muscism's relationship to currency, 124 00:08:07,076 --> 00:08:12,476 Speaker 1: so we're going to blast off to the past. The 125 00:08:12,556 --> 00:08:16,636 Speaker 1: kerfuffle over bitcoin really dates to eighteen forty eight and 126 00:08:16,716 --> 00:08:19,996 Speaker 1: the discovery of gold in California. A flood of gold 127 00:08:20,036 --> 00:08:22,716 Speaker 1: reach havoc on the US dollar, and so as the 128 00:08:22,756 --> 00:08:26,356 Speaker 1: federal government took on new powers, it adopted a gold standard, 129 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:28,836 Speaker 1: which set a rate for the price of paper currency. 130 00:08:29,556 --> 00:08:32,276 Speaker 1: Europe then did the same thing. This ushered in a 131 00:08:32,356 --> 00:08:36,516 Speaker 1: new era of global trade, and not incidentally, the grotesque 132 00:08:36,556 --> 00:08:40,476 Speaker 1: economic inequality of the Gilded Age. Farmers and factory workers 133 00:08:40,556 --> 00:08:44,036 Speaker 1: argued for a silver standard, but the US formally established 134 00:08:44,036 --> 00:08:48,036 Speaker 1: the gold standard in the year nineteen hundred. That same year, 135 00:08:48,276 --> 00:08:51,556 Speaker 1: a science fiction writer named Garrett P. Service imagined a 136 00:08:51,596 --> 00:08:55,756 Speaker 1: different outcome in a novel called Moon Metal, in which 137 00:08:55,796 --> 00:08:58,636 Speaker 1: gold is discovered at this South Pole, setting off a 138 00:08:58,676 --> 00:09:02,436 Speaker 1: second gold rush. Gold is going to be as plentiful 139 00:09:02,556 --> 00:09:05,756 Speaker 1: as ire. If there were not such a flood of it, 140 00:09:05,796 --> 00:09:08,436 Speaker 1: we might manage. But when they begin to make trouser 141 00:09:08,516 --> 00:09:11,436 Speaker 1: buttons out of the same metal that is now locked 142 00:09:11,476 --> 00:09:14,996 Speaker 1: and guarded in steel vaults, where will be our standard 143 00:09:15,036 --> 00:09:18,636 Speaker 1: of worth? My dear fellow, I would as willingly face 144 00:09:18,756 --> 00:09:22,916 Speaker 1: the end of the world as this that's coming. Just then, 145 00:09:23,076 --> 00:09:26,796 Speaker 1: a sinister scientist discovers a mysterious new metal on the 146 00:09:26,796 --> 00:09:29,156 Speaker 1: Moon which he can beam to Earth by way of 147 00:09:29,196 --> 00:09:32,756 Speaker 1: a particle ray, and introduces a new and more precious 148 00:09:32,756 --> 00:09:35,996 Speaker 1: form of currency. I can produce it in the pure 149 00:09:36,196 --> 00:09:40,836 Speaker 1: form abundantly enough to replace gold, giving it the same 150 00:09:41,156 --> 00:09:45,276 Speaker 1: relative value the gold possessed when it was the universal 151 00:09:45,516 --> 00:09:48,476 Speaker 1: stand But that will make you the richest man who 152 00:09:48,516 --> 00:09:53,876 Speaker 1: ever lived. Undoubtedly, why you will become the financial dictator 153 00:09:53,876 --> 00:09:59,876 Speaker 1: of the whole earth. Undoubtedly, currency is always a worry. 154 00:09:59,996 --> 00:10:03,836 Speaker 1: Its value is so contrived, so imaginary, but also so important. 155 00:10:04,556 --> 00:10:07,596 Speaker 1: After the stock market crash of nineteen twenty nine, people 156 00:10:07,636 --> 00:10:09,796 Speaker 1: took their money out of the banks and turned in 157 00:10:09,796 --> 00:10:12,956 Speaker 1: their paper dollars for gold. In the nineteen thirties, the 158 00:10:13,076 --> 00:10:15,916 Speaker 1: US abandoned the gold standard, at least for the duration 159 00:10:15,956 --> 00:10:19,476 Speaker 1: of the depression, and prohibited the private ownership of gold. 160 00:10:20,236 --> 00:10:22,116 Speaker 1: If you've been listening to The Evening Rocket for the 161 00:10:22,196 --> 00:10:25,476 Speaker 1: last few episodes, you'll remember that it was during this era. 162 00:10:25,716 --> 00:10:29,836 Speaker 1: Then in Canada, Elon Musk's grandfather joined and became a 163 00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:34,196 Speaker 1: leader of the technocracy movement, founded on the belief that 164 00:10:34,316 --> 00:10:39,636 Speaker 1: engineers could solve all political, social and economic problems. Technocrats 165 00:10:39,796 --> 00:10:43,756 Speaker 1: did not believe in prices. My price system is not 166 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:48,076 Speaker 1: meant merely the capitalistic system, which is only one variety 167 00:10:48,116 --> 00:10:52,756 Speaker 1: of the species. It means the collapse and complete obsolescence 168 00:10:52,836 --> 00:10:57,476 Speaker 1: of the entire method of distributing goods and services by 169 00:10:57,596 --> 00:11:01,316 Speaker 1: means of a price. Technocrats didn't believe in prices because 170 00:11:01,356 --> 00:11:04,276 Speaker 1: they didn't believe in any system not run by engineers. 171 00:11:04,876 --> 00:11:07,716 Speaker 1: They wanted to get rid of both governments and banks. 172 00:11:08,156 --> 00:11:12,436 Speaker 1: There will be no place for politics or politicians. Finance 173 00:11:12,596 --> 00:11:17,676 Speaker 1: or finance is rackets are racketeers in place of prices 174 00:11:17,676 --> 00:11:21,996 Speaker 1: and money. Technocrats wanted to reimagine the entire economic system 175 00:11:22,436 --> 00:11:25,556 Speaker 1: with a new currency, a unit of energy, an ERG 176 00:11:25,956 --> 00:11:30,716 Speaker 1: whose stability would eradicate the volatility of finance. A dollar 177 00:11:30,876 --> 00:11:34,836 Speaker 1: may be worth in buying power so much today and 178 00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:39,676 Speaker 1: moral as tomorrow, but a unit of work or heat 179 00:11:40,156 --> 00:11:44,756 Speaker 1: is the same in nineteen hundred, nineteen twenty nine, nineteen 180 00:11:44,916 --> 00:11:49,316 Speaker 1: thirty three are the year two thousand. The ERG never 181 00:11:49,356 --> 00:11:52,396 Speaker 1: did replace the dollar, and the US formerly abandoned the 182 00:11:52,436 --> 00:11:55,996 Speaker 1: gold standard in nineteen seventy six, but starting in two 183 00:11:56,036 --> 00:11:58,716 Speaker 1: thousand and nine, people who want to trade in units 184 00:11:58,716 --> 00:12:02,996 Speaker 1: other than dollars can buy bitcoins. Bitcoin a cryptocurrency isn't 185 00:12:03,036 --> 00:12:06,036 Speaker 1: based on anything of value, Although not unlike the ERG, 186 00:12:06,316 --> 00:12:09,476 Speaker 1: it has some relationship to energy. The energy it takes 187 00:12:09,516 --> 00:12:13,796 Speaker 1: to produce it. Financial analysts who talk about bitcoin tend 188 00:12:13,796 --> 00:12:17,076 Speaker 1: to refer not to the Hitchhiker's Guide but to Peter 189 00:12:17,196 --> 00:12:21,396 Speaker 1: Pan and the so called Tinkerbell effect. It takes his 190 00:12:21,596 --> 00:12:28,396 Speaker 1: faith and trust. Oh and something I forgot dust dust 191 00:12:28,636 --> 00:12:37,956 Speaker 1: gaff yep, just a little bit of pixie dust. Bitcoin's value, 192 00:12:38,036 --> 00:12:40,556 Speaker 1: like the value of other money, only exists if you 193 00:12:40,636 --> 00:12:45,116 Speaker 1: believe it exists, like Tinkerbell or Neverland. Nevertheless, in a 194 00:12:45,196 --> 00:12:49,036 Speaker 1: report issued earlier this year, JP Morgan suggested that bitcoin 195 00:12:49,196 --> 00:12:53,356 Speaker 1: is poised to become the new gold standard. Cryptocudencies were 196 00:12:53,396 --> 00:12:58,116 Speaker 1: designed to make payments without a trusted third party, such 197 00:12:58,156 --> 00:13:01,916 Speaker 1: as a government or the financial institution they involved. Eshwar 198 00:13:02,036 --> 00:13:05,116 Speaker 1: Prasad is an economist at Cornell University and a fellow 199 00:13:05,116 --> 00:13:08,116 Speaker 1: at the Brookings Institute, author of a forthcoming book on 200 00:13:08,196 --> 00:13:11,636 Speaker 1: the future of money. He believes cryptocurrency has set off 201 00:13:11,636 --> 00:13:15,676 Speaker 1: a revolution, a foundational change in finance, but that bitcoin 202 00:13:15,756 --> 00:13:19,956 Speaker 1: itself has not admit its subjectives. Bitcoin has really ended 203 00:13:20,036 --> 00:13:22,596 Speaker 1: up failing in what it was supposed to provide, which 204 00:13:22,636 --> 00:13:26,556 Speaker 1: is a cheap, trustless medium of exchange. It turns out 205 00:13:26,636 --> 00:13:29,796 Speaker 1: it is not anonymous. It turns out it is not cheap, 206 00:13:30,036 --> 00:13:33,276 Speaker 1: and it is not very efficient, so bitcoin has centered 207 00:13:33,356 --> 00:13:38,876 Speaker 1: up becoming a pure speculative asset. The technology underlying cryptocurrencies, 208 00:13:39,036 --> 00:13:42,116 Speaker 1: Perside argues, well, of all kinds of effects on finance, 209 00:13:42,156 --> 00:13:45,276 Speaker 1: it really is the future. But he's not persuaded that 210 00:13:45,556 --> 00:13:50,796 Speaker 1: some advocates claim cryptocurrencies will democratize finance. They've made it 211 00:13:50,836 --> 00:13:55,516 Speaker 1: possible for people with very low incomes, very low levels 212 00:13:55,516 --> 00:13:59,636 Speaker 1: of wealth to get relatively easy access to digital payments 213 00:13:59,676 --> 00:14:03,876 Speaker 1: and also to basic banking products. But the problem is 214 00:14:03,916 --> 00:14:08,516 Speaker 1: that digital access is unequal and financial literacy is unequal. 215 00:14:09,196 --> 00:14:12,116 Speaker 1: You might give people easy access to a lot of products, 216 00:14:12,436 --> 00:14:15,236 Speaker 1: but if you don't teach them their risks embedded in 217 00:14:15,236 --> 00:14:18,516 Speaker 1: those products, then you might end up with the relatively 218 00:14:18,636 --> 00:14:21,956 Speaker 1: less well off taking on much more risks than they 219 00:14:21,996 --> 00:14:26,076 Speaker 1: realize that they're taking on, and the rich ending up 220 00:14:26,156 --> 00:14:29,516 Speaker 1: being able to use his technologies much more to their advantage, 221 00:14:29,756 --> 00:14:32,276 Speaker 1: so they become even better off than they are right now. 222 00:14:32,716 --> 00:14:35,836 Speaker 1: One version of that story is the story of robin Hood, 223 00:14:35,996 --> 00:14:38,796 Speaker 1: when feudal barons ravaged the countryside to live in pomp 224 00:14:38,796 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 1: and splendor. When one man alone, they're challenged the might 225 00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:46,676 Speaker 1: of his country's oppressors, robin Hood. No, not that robin hood. 226 00:14:47,036 --> 00:14:49,836 Speaker 1: This robin hood couldn't be easier to make a trade 227 00:14:49,916 --> 00:14:55,356 Speaker 1: using the robin Hood app three taps, I just bought 228 00:14:55,356 --> 00:14:59,996 Speaker 1: some stock earlier this year, this robin hood the investing 229 00:14:59,996 --> 00:15:02,916 Speaker 1: app led to a rockiss over a video game company 230 00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:07,036 Speaker 1: called game Stop. A number of Wall Street firms had 231 00:15:07,076 --> 00:15:10,836 Speaker 1: taken a bet that the pri of game Stop stock 232 00:15:10,956 --> 00:15:15,516 Speaker 1: would fall, and somehow a group of people on Reddit 233 00:15:16,036 --> 00:15:18,116 Speaker 1: decided that they were going to take on these hedge 234 00:15:18,116 --> 00:15:21,756 Speaker 1: funds and show them the power of the masses. So 235 00:15:21,796 --> 00:15:26,276 Speaker 1: they basically rallied around a lot of retail investors who 236 00:15:26,676 --> 00:15:30,796 Speaker 1: would start buying up game Stop stock, thereby driving up 237 00:15:30,796 --> 00:15:34,156 Speaker 1: its price. So they started buying up shares, which was 238 00:15:34,236 --> 00:15:37,756 Speaker 1: made possible through this robin Hood app which allows for 239 00:15:37,876 --> 00:15:42,596 Speaker 1: low cost or essentially zero commissioned trading. The problem, of course, 240 00:15:42,676 --> 00:15:45,396 Speaker 1: is that those who got to the party late were 241 00:15:45,436 --> 00:15:48,756 Speaker 1: the retail investors, and they got sucked in and ended 242 00:15:48,796 --> 00:15:51,236 Speaker 1: up losing a lot of money, because, as you might expect, 243 00:15:51,596 --> 00:15:55,396 Speaker 1: the speculative frenzy finally ended, the price of game Stop 244 00:15:55,556 --> 00:16:01,276 Speaker 1: stock fell and many of these retail investors got burned. There. 245 00:16:01,316 --> 00:16:04,036 Speaker 1: It is Wendy Second start of the right straight on 246 00:16:04,196 --> 00:16:08,316 Speaker 1: till morn. That's Peter Pan leading the way to the 247 00:16:08,356 --> 00:16:12,836 Speaker 1: island of lost boys who never grow up. Musk's fans 248 00:16:12,876 --> 00:16:14,876 Speaker 1: seemed to think of him less as Peter Pan, though, 249 00:16:15,116 --> 00:16:18,276 Speaker 1: and more as Robin Hood. That I think is partly 250 00:16:18,316 --> 00:16:21,596 Speaker 1: due to the story of dogecoin, a cryptocurrency based on 251 00:16:21,716 --> 00:16:24,916 Speaker 1: nothing except a meme about a dog, started by a 252 00:16:24,956 --> 00:16:29,236 Speaker 1: software engineer named Jackson Palmer as a joke. Palmer later 253 00:16:29,236 --> 00:16:32,996 Speaker 1: wrote an article called my joke cryptocurrency hit two billion 254 00:16:32,996 --> 00:16:37,236 Speaker 1: dollars and something is very wrong, in which he said cryptocurrency, 255 00:16:37,316 --> 00:16:40,036 Speaker 1: for all its promise, had become nothing more than an 256 00:16:40,116 --> 00:16:44,356 Speaker 1: unregulated penny stock market. Musk hadn't been much involved in 257 00:16:44,396 --> 00:16:47,516 Speaker 1: all of this, but in twenty nineteen, after people started 258 00:16:47,516 --> 00:16:50,676 Speaker 1: tweeting that he should be the CEO of dogecoin, he 259 00:16:50,756 --> 00:16:56,476 Speaker 1: said it was his favorite cryptocurrency. Dozecogn's value skyrocketed, then, 260 00:16:56,516 --> 00:17:00,196 Speaker 1: in a kind of quintessential act of Muscism, Musk kept 261 00:17:00,236 --> 00:17:04,236 Speaker 1: tweeting about it and upwind its price. This past February, 262 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:07,436 Speaker 1: Musk talked about dogecoin on Clubhouse, a kind of audio 263 00:17:07,556 --> 00:17:12,116 Speaker 1: chat room. Popular and Silicon Valley occasionally make jokes about dogcoin, 264 00:17:12,276 --> 00:17:13,996 Speaker 1: they are really just meant to be joked. But dose 265 00:17:14,036 --> 00:17:17,356 Speaker 1: cooin is made as a joke to make fun of cryptocurrencies, obviously, 266 00:17:17,556 --> 00:17:20,876 Speaker 1: but fate Love's irony and often as part of my 267 00:17:20,956 --> 00:17:23,556 Speaker 1: says that most ironic outcome is most likely, or I 268 00:17:23,636 --> 00:17:26,396 Speaker 1: say the most entertaining outcome is often the most likely 269 00:17:26,636 --> 00:17:30,476 Speaker 1: and arguably the most entertaining outcome, and the most ironic 270 00:17:30,476 --> 00:17:34,196 Speaker 1: outcome would be that dogecoin becomes the currency of Earth 271 00:17:34,196 --> 00:17:37,876 Speaker 1: in the future, the future, the future. But to me, 272 00:17:37,996 --> 00:17:40,836 Speaker 1: beneath the thunder of rocket engines and far from the 273 00:17:40,916 --> 00:17:45,436 Speaker 1: glare of computer screens, there's something medieval going on here. 274 00:17:45,836 --> 00:17:49,516 Speaker 1: Even calling a cryptocurrency a coin is kind of a throwback. 275 00:17:50,036 --> 00:17:53,036 Speaker 1: So I called up a medievalist named Rory Naismith who 276 00:17:53,036 --> 00:17:55,596 Speaker 1: teaches at Cambridge. I asked him how people in the 277 00:17:55,636 --> 00:18:00,076 Speaker 1: Middle Ages trusted money. You can trust the people behind it, 278 00:18:00,116 --> 00:18:02,396 Speaker 1: and that's important. They think about money very much in 279 00:18:02,556 --> 00:18:06,036 Speaker 1: personal terms. These coins are very often issued in the 280 00:18:06,156 --> 00:18:09,156 Speaker 1: name of a king or a bishop or someone like that. 281 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:11,556 Speaker 1: That's one side of it. There's a strong sense that 282 00:18:11,716 --> 00:18:15,316 Speaker 1: money is precious metal. It's not quite worth its weight 283 00:18:15,356 --> 00:18:18,516 Speaker 1: in gold or silver, at least not always, but that 284 00:18:18,836 --> 00:18:22,316 Speaker 1: is still there as a kind of kind of fallback. 285 00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:24,796 Speaker 1: So there's a degree of abstraction that we put our 286 00:18:24,836 --> 00:18:27,516 Speaker 1: trust in the identity of the person whose faces on 287 00:18:27,556 --> 00:18:30,396 Speaker 1: the coin, say, but there's also a degree of real 288 00:18:30,476 --> 00:18:34,316 Speaker 1: concrete value. You could melt this thing down right, Yes, 289 00:18:34,396 --> 00:18:37,116 Speaker 1: that's exactly right, and right down to the seventeenth eighteenth 290 00:18:37,156 --> 00:18:41,516 Speaker 1: century people thought of their silverware, their forks, their plates, 291 00:18:41,556 --> 00:18:43,796 Speaker 1: all that sort of thing as in a very real 292 00:18:43,836 --> 00:18:46,996 Speaker 1: sense another kind of money. Then, of course came paper 293 00:18:47,036 --> 00:18:49,956 Speaker 1: money and banks and the nation state, and the growth 294 00:18:49,956 --> 00:18:53,436 Speaker 1: of state power and government regulation of currency, the Bank 295 00:18:53,436 --> 00:18:56,996 Speaker 1: of England, the Federal Reserve. It's as if some advocates 296 00:18:56,996 --> 00:19:00,316 Speaker 1: of cryptocurrency, some of them use an investing app named 297 00:19:00,316 --> 00:19:03,916 Speaker 1: after a mythical medieval character, want to uninvent all of 298 00:19:03,916 --> 00:19:06,076 Speaker 1: those things. They want to go back to a time 299 00:19:06,156 --> 00:19:09,836 Speaker 1: before those things were invented, to a fantasy Middle Ages 300 00:19:10,156 --> 00:19:13,676 Speaker 1: where the currency is coin and robin Hood is stealing 301 00:19:13,716 --> 00:19:16,596 Speaker 1: from the rich and giving to the poor. In a way, 302 00:19:16,876 --> 00:19:19,876 Speaker 1: it's also a bit like not necessarily just the future 303 00:19:19,876 --> 00:19:21,796 Speaker 1: of money, but also going back to the past of money. 304 00:19:21,796 --> 00:19:23,996 Speaker 1: It's it's quite light going back to this period in 305 00:19:24,676 --> 00:19:27,236 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages, when you thought much more in terms 306 00:19:27,276 --> 00:19:31,516 Speaker 1: of people and sources rather than bigger states and bigger 307 00:19:31,836 --> 00:19:36,236 Speaker 1: institutions that would underpin the authority and trustworthiness of these coins. 308 00:19:37,836 --> 00:19:41,236 Speaker 1: To me in Sherwood Forest, Elon Musk isn't Robin Hood. 309 00:19:41,556 --> 00:19:44,756 Speaker 1: He's the king whose face is on the coin. In 310 00:19:44,956 --> 00:19:49,916 Speaker 1: Musk retrust. In February, Musk tweeted the single word doze 311 00:19:50,236 --> 00:19:52,716 Speaker 1: under a picture of a SpaceX rocket in front of 312 00:19:52,716 --> 00:19:56,476 Speaker 1: the moon. Doge to the Moon became a rallying cry. 313 00:19:57,396 --> 00:20:00,276 Speaker 1: This was all a performance, a joke, topsy turvy, like 314 00:20:00,316 --> 00:20:04,116 Speaker 1: a medieval carnival. Musk would tweet outrageous things, then say 315 00:20:04,156 --> 00:20:07,476 Speaker 1: he was only joking. On April Fool's Day, he tweeted 316 00:20:07,716 --> 00:20:10,436 Speaker 1: SpaceX is going to put it literal dogecoin on the 317 00:20:10,476 --> 00:20:14,636 Speaker 1: literal Moon. A joke, but also not a joke. Musk 318 00:20:14,716 --> 00:20:17,916 Speaker 1: said that SpaceX will be accepting dogecoin as payment, with 319 00:20:17,996 --> 00:20:22,556 Speaker 1: one doge funded launch scheduled next year. Meanwhile, Tessa was 320 00:20:22,556 --> 00:20:25,356 Speaker 1: in the news for investing in and accepting bitcoin, and 321 00:20:25,396 --> 00:20:28,916 Speaker 1: then in the news for walking all that back. Days later, 322 00:20:29,156 --> 00:20:32,516 Speaker 1: NBC's Saturday Night Live announced that Musk would host an 323 00:20:32,596 --> 00:20:36,876 Speaker 1: upcoming episode. It aired on Mother's Day Eve. Musk brought 324 00:20:36,876 --> 00:20:39,236 Speaker 1: his mother onto the stage and told her his present 325 00:20:39,316 --> 00:20:44,476 Speaker 1: for her was dogecoin. In his opening monologue, Musk announced 326 00:20:44,556 --> 00:20:47,596 Speaker 1: that he has Asperger syndrome. Look, I know I sometimes 327 00:20:47,636 --> 00:20:49,756 Speaker 1: say or post strange things, but that's just how my 328 00:20:49,796 --> 00:20:52,676 Speaker 1: brain works. To anyone I've offended, I just want to 329 00:20:52,676 --> 00:20:56,276 Speaker 1: say I reinvented electric Carson. I'm sending people to Mars 330 00:20:56,276 --> 00:21:02,956 Speaker 1: and our rocketship. Did you think I was also going 331 00:21:02,996 --> 00:21:06,236 Speaker 1: to be a chill, normal dude. Some people in the 332 00:21:06,236 --> 00:21:11,036 Speaker 1: autism community celebrated Musk's announcement a milestone, and, as some 333 00:21:11,076 --> 00:21:14,396 Speaker 1: autistic writers observed, there was something very moving when he 334 00:21:14,476 --> 00:21:16,516 Speaker 1: joked that he was pretty good at running human in 335 00:21:16,636 --> 00:21:20,876 Speaker 1: emulation mode. Elsewhere, Musk has joked that he's an alien 336 00:21:21,116 --> 00:21:24,156 Speaker 1: or a robot other ways that he's conjured a struggle 337 00:21:24,196 --> 00:21:27,356 Speaker 1: experienced by many people on the autism spectrum who've been 338 00:21:27,356 --> 00:21:31,676 Speaker 1: forced to mask their very selves. But there were critics too, 339 00:21:31,916 --> 00:21:35,316 Speaker 1: who maintained that Musk's announcement was deeply cynical and just 340 00:21:35,396 --> 00:21:39,876 Speaker 1: another element of an anything goes capitalism. In Slate magazine, 341 00:21:40,156 --> 00:21:44,116 Speaker 1: journalist Sarah Ludermann who was autistic objected to a billionaire 342 00:21:44,196 --> 00:21:48,756 Speaker 1: using Asperger's to insulate himself from criticism of his business practices, 343 00:21:48,996 --> 00:21:52,916 Speaker 1: writing Apparently Asperger's syndrome means in never having to say 344 00:21:52,956 --> 00:21:58,236 Speaker 1: you're sorry. What struck me, though, is that Musk's monologue 345 00:21:58,236 --> 00:22:00,396 Speaker 1: made out as if people who criticize him object to 346 00:22:00,476 --> 00:22:03,876 Speaker 1: him personally. But it has never been my sense that 347 00:22:03,996 --> 00:22:07,316 Speaker 1: serious people who criticize Musk do so because they object 348 00:22:07,316 --> 00:22:10,316 Speaker 1: to his tone or his mode of expression. The coral 349 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:12,596 Speaker 1: isn't with what he says or how he says it, 350 00:22:13,036 --> 00:22:14,996 Speaker 1: but with what he does and with the world he 351 00:22:15,036 --> 00:22:18,076 Speaker 1: seems to want to build. The coral isn't with Musk, 352 00:22:18,636 --> 00:22:23,356 Speaker 1: but with Muscism. To Luderman's point, appearing on SNL gave 353 00:22:23,436 --> 00:22:27,276 Speaker 1: Musk all sorts of opportunities to tell a new, redemptive 354 00:22:27,316 --> 00:22:30,996 Speaker 1: story about himself. He appeared in nearly every sketch as 355 00:22:31,036 --> 00:22:35,036 Speaker 1: the Nintendo villain Warrior on trial for murdering Mario, he explained, 356 00:22:35,356 --> 00:22:39,036 Speaker 1: I'm not evil, I'm just misunderstood. In a skit set 357 00:22:39,076 --> 00:22:41,876 Speaker 1: in the Old West, he played a bandit named leron 358 00:22:42,316 --> 00:22:44,476 Speaker 1: what if instead of panning for gold, we just create 359 00:22:44,516 --> 00:22:49,396 Speaker 1: our own currency currency? Yeah? And what the heck would 360 00:22:49,396 --> 00:22:52,396 Speaker 1: it be based on? Whatever we say it's based on 361 00:22:53,356 --> 00:22:57,676 Speaker 1: da ain't how money works. The money ain't the golden 362 00:22:57,756 --> 00:23:00,596 Speaker 1: rock that we dig out of the ground. Then we 363 00:23:00,636 --> 00:23:02,876 Speaker 1: hope no one kills us before we train it for 364 00:23:02,916 --> 00:23:07,516 Speaker 1: pieces of green paper. It's a perfect system. It's a 365 00:23:07,516 --> 00:23:10,596 Speaker 1: weird thing about being a historian, and everything reminds you 366 00:23:10,636 --> 00:23:14,396 Speaker 1: of something else. Watching Elon Musk play Leron dressed like 367 00:23:14,436 --> 00:23:17,716 Speaker 1: a cowboy, he looked exactly like an old photograph of 368 00:23:17,716 --> 00:23:21,156 Speaker 1: his grandfather, the technocrat, who worked as a cowboy and 369 00:23:21,276 --> 00:23:26,276 Speaker 1: performed at rodeos doing rope tricks. The family likeness is uncanny. 370 00:23:26,796 --> 00:23:30,636 Speaker 1: Musk is also named after that cowboy's father, his great grandfather. 371 00:23:31,036 --> 00:23:35,796 Speaker 1: Elon muskis m asks us to picture always the future, 372 00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:38,836 Speaker 1: But I find it hard not to keep picturing the past. 373 00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:46,516 Speaker 1: Yanked back lassoed by likenesses on SNL, Musk appeared too 374 00:23:46,556 --> 00:23:50,476 Speaker 1: on the show's newscast as a cryptocurrency expert who can't 375 00:23:50,476 --> 00:23:53,476 Speaker 1: give a straight answer. What is dollas coin? Well, it 376 00:23:53,556 --> 00:23:57,476 Speaker 1: actually started as a joke based on an Internet meme. Okay, 377 00:23:57,596 --> 00:24:01,036 Speaker 1: but what is doa co? Finally he admits the truth. 378 00:24:01,196 --> 00:24:03,876 Speaker 1: I keep telling you it's a cryptocrcy you can trade 379 00:24:04,156 --> 00:24:08,916 Speaker 1: for conventional money. Oh so the hustle, Yeah, it's awesome. 380 00:24:15,436 --> 00:24:18,996 Speaker 1: That night, Dogcoin lost a third of its value. Me 381 00:24:19,196 --> 00:24:21,276 Speaker 1: I was left thinking about the ending to that old 382 00:24:21,276 --> 00:24:25,236 Speaker 1: science fiction story Moon Metal from the year nineteen hundred. 383 00:24:25,636 --> 00:24:29,796 Speaker 1: The looting of the Moon brought disaster to the Raba planet, 384 00:24:30,956 --> 00:24:33,996 Speaker 1: so mad with the efforts to get the precious metal 385 00:24:34,596 --> 00:24:38,596 Speaker 1: that the surface of our globe was fairly showered with it. 386 00:24:39,476 --> 00:24:45,516 Speaker 1: The air was filled with shining dust until finally famine 387 00:24:45,556 --> 00:24:51,596 Speaker 1: and pestilence joined hands with financial disaster to punish the 388 00:24:51,676 --> 00:24:56,916 Speaker 1: grasping world. At the end of Moon Metal, markets collapse 389 00:24:57,156 --> 00:25:00,796 Speaker 1: until an international agreement leads to government control of the currency. 390 00:25:01,676 --> 00:25:03,996 Speaker 1: Some people think this is what's most likely to happen 391 00:25:04,076 --> 00:25:08,556 Speaker 1: to cryptocurrency too. Meantime, the air is being filled with 392 00:25:08,716 --> 00:25:13,716 Speaker 1: shining pixie dust as famine and pestilence and pandemic join 393 00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:20,196 Speaker 1: hands with financial disaster to punish the grasping world. This 394 00:25:20,276 --> 00:25:26,196 Speaker 1: is an age of technological wonder, an entrepreneurial experimentation. It 395 00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:32,276 Speaker 1: is in many ways tremendously thrilling. SpaceX and Tesla engineering 396 00:25:32,356 --> 00:25:37,196 Speaker 1: marvels as social engineering, though I don't find any of 397 00:25:37,236 --> 00:25:40,996 Speaker 1: this thrilling. The people with the most money shouldn't get 398 00:25:40,996 --> 00:25:43,636 Speaker 1: to decide what happens on Earth, or on the Moon, 399 00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:50,636 Speaker 1: or to the skies, or on Mars or anywhere. To me, 400 00:25:50,716 --> 00:25:54,356 Speaker 1: the larger story about the rise of Muscism extravagant, extreme 401 00:25:54,476 --> 00:26:00,236 Speaker 1: fantastical capitalism is its anachronism. I can't tell you anything 402 00:26:00,396 --> 00:26:03,476 Speaker 1: about the future of Muscism, but it strikes me that 403 00:26:03,596 --> 00:26:07,596 Speaker 1: for all its obsession with the future, Muscism is trapped 404 00:26:07,796 --> 00:26:11,076 Speaker 1: in the past. Elon Musk is a visionary But what 405 00:26:11,156 --> 00:26:13,956 Speaker 1: I've come to believe during the research for the series 406 00:26:14,556 --> 00:26:18,196 Speaker 1: is that those visions come from a future first imagined 407 00:26:18,196 --> 00:26:22,516 Speaker 1: in science fiction long long ago, decades, sometimes more than 408 00:26:22,556 --> 00:26:27,596 Speaker 1: a century ago. Rockets to Mars, electric cars, cryptocurrency, a 409 00:26:27,676 --> 00:26:32,316 Speaker 1: future without governments or banks. A future where engineers and scientists, 410 00:26:32,316 --> 00:26:36,636 Speaker 1: and only engineers and scientists have the answers. A future 411 00:26:36,756 --> 00:26:39,836 Speaker 1: whose long dead author is very often pictured. A world 412 00:26:39,876 --> 00:26:43,556 Speaker 1: where the poor and the powerless and the robots know 413 00:26:43,676 --> 00:26:47,076 Speaker 1: their place, and it is to serve the powerful quietly 414 00:26:47,076 --> 00:26:52,316 Speaker 1: and obediently, and without daring to claim sovereignty or independence 415 00:26:53,196 --> 00:26:57,876 Speaker 1: or even intelligence. This future was imagined by a very 416 00:26:57,996 --> 00:27:01,876 Speaker 1: tiny number of men during an age of imperialism before 417 00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:05,436 Speaker 1: women could vote, an age of staggering economic inequality and 418 00:27:05,516 --> 00:27:09,876 Speaker 1: brutal racial injustice, an age of pandemic disease, on raveling 419 00:27:09,916 --> 00:27:19,716 Speaker 1: democracies and World War The President is tough, but that 420 00:27:19,836 --> 00:27:23,316 Speaker 1: past is past, and I don't want it ever to 421 00:27:23,356 --> 00:27:36,756 Speaker 1: be the future again. The Evening Rocket was written and 422 00:27:36,876 --> 00:27:40,356 Speaker 1: read by me Jillapour for the BBC. The Evening Rocket 423 00:27:40,396 --> 00:27:43,756 Speaker 1: was produced by viv Jones. Oliver Riskin Cuts was the researcher. 424 00:27:43,876 --> 00:27:47,316 Speaker 1: The editor was Hugh Levinson. The commissioning editor was Dan Clark. 425 00:27:47,596 --> 00:27:51,036 Speaker 1: Ionah Hammond was production coordinator. Mixing by Graham put a 426 00:27:51,076 --> 00:27:54,556 Speaker 1: Foot and original music by Cornti for Pushkin. It was 427 00:27:54,556 --> 00:27:57,796 Speaker 1: produced by Sophie Crane, mckibbon and Jake Gorski, who also 428 00:27:57,876 --> 00:28:00,836 Speaker 1: did the mix and sound design. Production support from Ben 429 00:28:00,916 --> 00:28:04,636 Speaker 1: Natt of Haafrick. Our executive producer is Mielobell. Our operations 430 00:28:04,676 --> 00:28:08,996 Speaker 1: team includes Daniella Lakhan, Maya Kanig and Carl mcgliori. Thanks 431 00:28:09,156 --> 00:28:12,716 Speaker 1: also to John Schnar's, Jacob Eisburg, Maggie Taylor, Heather Fain, 432 00:28:13,076 --> 00:28:14,916 Speaker 1: Nicole Moreno and Eric Sandler.