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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for an older episode

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Speaker 1: of the show. This one was called Ghosts of Wind

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Speaker 1: and Rain. I believe it was about weather oriented ghost

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Speaker 1: lore and and other creatures. This was originally published on October.

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Speaker 1: Let's let us Unleash the Storm. There's a storm coming.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 1: Rob correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this

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Speaker 1: is finally the year that you've gotten full blown into

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Speaker 1: Rocky Ericson. Is that right? Uh? Yeah, yeah, I would guess. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got. I listened to him a little in the past,

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Speaker 1: and in this year I got even more into it. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So Rocky has long been one of my favorite rock

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Speaker 1: and roll vampires, and one of the things I love

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Speaker 1: about Rocky Ericson Monster songs is how much they're about

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Speaker 1: the weather. Um. So you may remember the line from

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Speaker 1: his great, his great anthem, The Night of the Vampire

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Speaker 1: if it's raining and you're running, don't slip in mud,

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Speaker 1: because if you do, you'll slip in blood. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's just logic, and there's a really infectious glee to

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Speaker 1: that kind of logic. But also I enjoyed the weather

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Speaker 1: weather represented in songs like the Wind and More, which

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Speaker 1: I know compares sort of the voice of Lucifer to

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Speaker 1: to the storm winds that are battering through the house. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And And if anyone out there is not sure who

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, um, you should look up Rocky erricks

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Speaker 1: and who also was the other group like Man from

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Speaker 1: the late sixties early seventies based in I think Austin,

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Speaker 1: definitely out of Texas. Uh, fantastic psychedelic rock. But then

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Speaker 1: Rocky Ericson had had a long solo career after that

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Speaker 1: of all different kinds of music, you know, he he

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Speaker 1: um so some of the stuff he released, uh he

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Speaker 1: he had a lot of troubles with mental health and

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Speaker 1: at some points he was in psychiatric institutions. But even

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Speaker 1: in those periods would sort of make these little demos

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Speaker 1: of UH songs recorded it sounds like just on a

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Speaker 1: tape recorder that are very simple. But but strangely beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and then at other times he would make full blown,

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Speaker 1: uh monster rock and roll albums. There's one called Evil

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Speaker 1: One that's just fantastic, that's got a kind of Credence

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Speaker 1: Clearwater Revival style rock production. But all the songs are

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Speaker 1: about demons and ghosts and and fifties atomic age monster movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty hard stuff too, Like it's like it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's got a hard rock vibe that I think

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Speaker 1: might surprise some people. So it's I think was produced

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Speaker 1: by somebody from Credence. If never so, I think so. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But but but but harder than Credence, Uh, in my opinion. Well,

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Speaker 1: all that is preamble to the fact that today we

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the intersection of ghosts and weather. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I have to stress that we absolutely won't be

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Speaker 1: able to cover everything here because there are just too

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Speaker 1: many storm monsters and storm deities out there storm related

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Speaker 1: ghosts and other creatures. But we're gonna be covering various

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Speaker 1: examples that seem related to some of the core ideas

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Speaker 1: that we were kicking around for this episode. And uh

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Speaker 1: and and really, the the central idea has to do

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Speaker 1: with a recent trip you went on. Oh yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I was recently in coastal South Carolina. Rob, have you

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Speaker 1: been to coastal South Carolina? I assume probably, oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and of course South Carolina placed with a lot

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Speaker 1: of ghosts, tons of ghosts everywhere you go there, Like

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Speaker 1: you can find a little local visitor center that's got

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Speaker 1: a local uh self published ghost author who's collected all

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Speaker 1: the lore and they've got it in a in a

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Speaker 1: book that the font of the book is usually times

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Speaker 1: New Roman, uh, but it's but it will have lots

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Speaker 1: of great, you know, local ghost stories in it. And

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Speaker 1: so there's one that I was reading about from a

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Speaker 1: particular place on the South Carolina coast, a little island

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Speaker 1: called Paul's Island. And so to explain this, so on

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Speaker 1: refer to an article that was published by Myrtle Beach Online.

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Speaker 1: So it's a local news article from the Myrtle Beach

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Speaker 1: area that's also coastal South Carolina by a writer named

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Speaker 1: Tyler Fleming. The article says it was last updated in

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Speaker 1: September nineteen. I'm not sure if that's when it was

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Speaker 1: originally published, but it's this local news article trying to

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Speaker 1: track down the origins of a bit of ghost lore

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Speaker 1: from this area of the South Carolina coastline, and specifically

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Speaker 1: this is the story of a being called the gray Man.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'd say it's used a lot, but I'm

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Speaker 1: still a sucker for for that formulation of a creature

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Speaker 1: name just the blank man, especially if whatever the word

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Speaker 1: in the middle is is a single syllable. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the Green Man, the tall Man. Yeah. So, according

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Speaker 1: to the legend, this is a spirit that wanders around

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Speaker 1: on the shore on and around this small island called

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Speaker 1: Poly's Island, South Carolina. Uh, usually appearing just before the

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Speaker 1: landfall of terrible storms as a translucent gray figure stalking

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Speaker 1: the beaches and boardwalks in a long cloak. Sometimes he's

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Speaker 1: literally described as dressed like a pirate. Uh. And one

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Speaker 1: one funny I think a little little justified accusation of

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Speaker 1: his identity is that he is black Beard. He is, Uh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you're supposed to say his last

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Speaker 1: name ed Edward Teach or Teach or Thatch, however it

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Speaker 1: is yeah yeah, with the with the burning brands in

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Speaker 1: his beard. Yeah. This this gets into an interesting area

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Speaker 1: that I would like about about ghosts of this nature

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Speaker 1: because uh, and this is all thoroughly non scientific, of course,

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Speaker 1: but we have this idea that you know, that something

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Speaker 1: bad happens and the ghost is like a lingering after

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Speaker 1: effect of that thing. Um. And then certainly there's also

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Speaker 1: this idea that a ghost, it's a Blackbeard's ghost or

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Speaker 1: just this mysterious gray man, would have potentially insider information

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Speaker 1: about what's going to happen. Maybe you know, they died

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Speaker 1: at sea and therefore they know the sea a little

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Speaker 1: better and they can they can warn us about things.

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Speaker 1: But then there's also an idea of the of of

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Speaker 1: hauntings as being uh, you know, things that work in

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Speaker 1: both directions and time, that they can be harbingers of

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Speaker 1: of the terrible events. Um. You know, perhaps they're even

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Speaker 1: attached to events that have yet to come. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that is exactly the case with the Gray Man.

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Speaker 1: So contrary to what you might assume about this spectral figure,

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Speaker 1: you know, crunching along through the sand, in the in

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Speaker 1: the in the storms and the wind, local legend usually

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Speaker 1: describes the gray Man as a nine or even a

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Speaker 1: helpful spirit, and the purpose of his hauntings is to

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Speaker 1: serve as a warning to people who live nearby that

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Speaker 1: the coming storm is going to be especially destructive. So

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Speaker 1: as a few examples of this, uh this belief among locals,

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Speaker 1: I was looking at a article in Southern Living by

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Speaker 1: Megan over Deep about this ghost legend, and it describes

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Speaker 1: how there were locals in in South Carolina who claimed

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Speaker 1: sightings of the gray Man just before Hurricane Hazel in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four and Hurricane Hugo in nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 1: But as a more recent example, also this this article

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Speaker 1: embedded tweets like people tweeting grainy photos of alleged gray

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Speaker 1: Man sightings ahead of Hurricane Florence in ten. So Rob,

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Speaker 1: I've embedded one for you to look at here. Listeners,

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Speaker 1: you can go look up this article in Southern Living

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Speaker 1: if you want to find these tweets. But m this

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Speaker 1: one embeds a photo that is allegedly taken at boardwalk

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Speaker 1: that goes over the beach on Pouli's Island, and there

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Speaker 1: is I don't know, so it's a it's a very

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Speaker 1: grainy photograph. It's got a lot of what looks like

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Speaker 1: digital artifacts and pixelation in it, and then there's this

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Speaker 1: big sort of pale gray smudge in the middle. Of

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Speaker 1: it that looks, oh yeah, maybe like it could be

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Speaker 1: some kind of vertical object on the boardwalk. But some

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Speaker 1: people apparently looked at that and said, hey, it's the

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Speaker 1: gray Man. Well I have to point out that the

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Speaker 1: tweet that is shared in this article, uh, the tweeter

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Speaker 1: does have a blue check mark. So this is verified.

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Speaker 1: This is this is verified. It proof of the afterlife

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Speaker 1: confirmed as usual. Why decidings of the paranormal so strongly

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Speaker 1: favor low fidelity documentation. I think I'm not positive, but

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Speaker 1: this looks like it's from some kind of like uh uh,

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Speaker 1: stationary live camera that sort of documents, you know, foot

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Speaker 1: traffic on the beach. I think that you can tune

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Speaker 1: into and see what's going on there. I'm not positive

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Speaker 1: that's what it is, but I know there is stuff

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Speaker 1: like that around there, and so that that's what it

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Speaker 1: looks like to me, But it could be something else anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very grainy, it's got all you know, it's got

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Speaker 1: the pixelated artifacts in it, and I just want some

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Speaker 1: high definition gray Man, but I can't get it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, I think that gets down to just

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Speaker 1: the fact that sightings occur when things are obscured and

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Speaker 1: uncertain They emerge out of uncertainty and uh and and

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Speaker 1: and and depleted the visual efficiency. That'll come back later

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Speaker 1: with something I want to get into in a minute.

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Speaker 1: So to quote from this article by Tyler Fleming here quote,

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Speaker 1: not only does he warn people, but he's also known

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Speaker 1: to protect their property from a storm. A woman in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four claimed to see the Gray Man ahead

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Speaker 1: of the infamous Hurricane Hazel hitting the area. She said

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Speaker 1: not only was her house spared from the devastation, the

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Speaker 1: beach towels she left on her balcony were still hanging up.

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Speaker 1: So the ghost is like, oh, Madam, I I I

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Speaker 1: those those beach towels are just too beautiful. I can't

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Speaker 1: stand to see them swept into the store. I'll protect

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Speaker 1: your house, but what about all the people who died?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you shouldn't the ghost of priorities the people

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Speaker 1: instead of the beach towels. I've seen people, but these

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Speaker 1: beach towels, my god, they're beautiful. So this article in

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Speaker 1: Myrtle Beach Online goes on to list some of the

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Speaker 1: local speculation about the alleged origin of this ghost. It

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Speaker 1: does not mention black Beard that one might be a

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Speaker 1: kind of spurious allegation. Uh well, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: all of these are probably just made up later legends.

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Speaker 1: But but trying to track down at least what are

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Speaker 1: the earliest of the legends. Um. So, the source that

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Speaker 1: the article sites on these is the Georgetown Museum. Georgetown

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Speaker 1: is a city near A. Pauli's Island. Um, And so

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Speaker 1: they've got to, I guess a museum that has some

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Speaker 1: stuff about this local legend. And one story, this, this

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Speaker 1: appears to be the dominant one, is about a man

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Speaker 1: who perished in the South Carolina low country in eighteen

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Speaker 1: twenty two. And the tale goes that this young man

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Speaker 1: had been traveling abroad for two years, and in September

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Speaker 1: of eighteen twenty two, he decided he wanted to come

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Speaker 1: home so he could see his fiancee uh back in

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Speaker 1: South Carolina and they could set a date for their wedding.

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Speaker 1: And he was apparently in such a hurry to get

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Speaker 1: back and see her face again that he took a

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Speaker 1: shortcut through the marsh and he ended up stuck in quicksand,

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Speaker 1: which spelled his doom and then his fiance she's grieving

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Speaker 1: over the fact that I guess. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: she found out that he died or if he just

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Speaker 1: never showed up, but she's grieving for some reason. And

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Speaker 1: she goes out walking along the shore and she's treading

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Speaker 1: through the sand, and while strolling alone on the beach,

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Speaker 1: she sees a dark silhouette. It's a it's the figure

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Speaker 1: of a man, and she realizes that it's the soul

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Speaker 1: of her would be husband who died in in the marsh.

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Speaker 1: And she's so troubled by this vision and others like it.

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Speaker 1: She has later that that her family decides to relocate inland.

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Speaker 1: They move away from that house, and the very next

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Speaker 1: day after they leave, a hurricane sweeps through, leaving a

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Speaker 1: path of destruction that would have killed them had they

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Speaker 1: not left. And it's apparently this legend that that could

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Speaker 1: give rise to this this common belief that the ghost

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Speaker 1: appears to people to warn them of storms. And as

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Speaker 1: a quick side note, I wanted to mention I love

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Speaker 1: that the story involves quicksand, which of course is one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite plot devices, but that does have an

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Speaker 1: environmental reality to it. You might not want to call

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Speaker 1: it quicksand, but the South Carolina low country, especially the marshes.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like the mouth of the what they

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Speaker 1: could usually call the creeks, you know, the little uh

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Speaker 1: the tributaries of water that eventually drained out into the ocean. Um.

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Speaker 1: These areas will form this build up of fine sediment

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Speaker 1: that is known as pluff mud and uh So I

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Speaker 1: was reading at least one article from the I think

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Speaker 1: it was the Hilton Head area that was all about

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Speaker 1: the story of a lady who goes out walking in

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Speaker 1: the marsh for some reason and she ends up stuck

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Speaker 1: in the pluff mud. And she's there until like into

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Speaker 1: the evening, and they have to send rescuers and to

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Speaker 1: dig her out. Because you can very easily get stuck

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Speaker 1: in this stuff. You can sink into it. It's a

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of myths about quicksand and uh

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Speaker 1: and and things like it that you would like sink

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Speaker 1: down under your head and drown. That's usually not a

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Speaker 1: very common thing to happen, if it happens at all. Really,

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Speaker 1: I think the risk of of quicksand and even pluff

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Speaker 1: mud is just that you would get stuck in it

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Speaker 1: and have trouble getting yourself out. Yeah. I've certainly been

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Speaker 1: in I don't know if it constitutes pluf mud or

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Speaker 1: or if it's just you know, very wet sand. But

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Speaker 1: I've been in I've noticed some coastal situations where you

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Speaker 1: have a real, real bootsucker or sandal sucker of of

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Speaker 1: a situation, you know, where the sand is just the

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Speaker 1: right consistency that if you you step into it, you

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Speaker 1: might be pulling a bare foot back out. Yes, And

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Speaker 1: it's it's almost it's wonderful that it creates this um,

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Speaker 1: this almost untouchable terrain, because there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: areas around in the low country where you can, like

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Speaker 1: if there there will be a nature preserve and you

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Speaker 1: can take a board walk out over the marsh and

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Speaker 1: if you look down on it, I see all kinds

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Speaker 1: of life. You know, things are happening down in the

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Speaker 1: pluff mud. There may be these big colonies of oysters,

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Speaker 1: and you can see fiddler crabs popping up out of

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Speaker 1: holes and running around and all the birds hunting them.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's the kind of place where you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: really want to go down and venture yourself, at least

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Speaker 1: not without some special equipment, maybe like weight displacement boots

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Speaker 1: or something. Now apparently there's some alternatives for the origin

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Speaker 1: of the gray Man legend um uh. To quote again

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Speaker 1: from the Myrtle Beach Online article quote uh. Other theories

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Speaker 1: tell a different story. One still has a man returning

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Speaker 1: from c but this time his fiance decided to marry

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Speaker 1: his best friend instead. He throws himself into the wacam All.

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Speaker 1: This is the Wake Them All River, which is a

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Speaker 1: nearby river, and then later his fiance and friend do

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Speaker 1: the same. Other stories say he was an unknown sailor

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Speaker 1: who washed up on shore and died shortly after. Some

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Speaker 1: believe he is the original owner of Polly's Island, George Polly,

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Speaker 1: who lived there in the early seventeen hundreds. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Now. Of course, this would be far from

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Speaker 1: the only legendary supernatural being associated with weather phenomena. You

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Speaker 1: know they're there are tons of ghosts and monsters and

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Speaker 1: creatures and gods that may not serve exactly this purpose,

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Speaker 1: saying like, hey, a storm's coming, but there in one

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Speaker 1: way or another associated specifically with storms or other transient

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Speaker 1: weather phenomena. And so while poking around on the subject,

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Speaker 1: I came across what I thought was an interesting and

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Speaker 1: kind of funny article. So this was on. This was

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Speaker 1: a weather news article by Michael Cune on ACU weather

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Speaker 1: Dot Calm with the headline quote ghost hunter colon thunderstorms

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Speaker 1: cause an increase in paranormal activity. Well, I mean, certainly,

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Speaker 1: if you've watched enough horror films and ghost movies, you

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Speaker 1: know that this is the case. You've got to have

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Speaker 1: a thunderstorm going in the background, right, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a classic of horror fiction. Right. So you could

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Speaker 1: argue about the the order of causality there, but uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know you got the classic what's the bulward Lytton line?

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Speaker 1: It was a dark and stormy night, and then the

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Speaker 1: idea that it seems that stormy conditions have long inspired

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Speaker 1: Gothic modes of thought. I mean, you know, there's the

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Speaker 1: classic story of, Uh, how did Mary Wilston craft Shelley

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Speaker 1: come up with the idea for Frankenstein. It was during

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Speaker 1: that summer when when she and Byron and the whole

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Speaker 1: crew were sort of like stuck inside due to this

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Speaker 1: this dark and stormy summer sort of it was the

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Speaker 1: year without a summer, which, uh, in a weird twist

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Speaker 1: of fate, I think was likely due to volcanic activity

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the world. Um, that that

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Speaker 1: was the summer where she worked out the ideas for

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Speaker 1: the story that would become Frankenstein, sort of a foundational

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Speaker 1: text of modern horror. And so it's kind of hard

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Speaker 1: for me to believe that the dark and stormy summer

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Speaker 1: didn't in a way play a role in the formation

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Speaker 1: of that story in her mind. But um, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: so so this article about the paranormal activity in the thunderstorm.

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Speaker 1: So the article consults a paranormal enthusiast named Mark Keys,

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Speaker 1: who at the time of this article at least was

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Speaker 1: director of the Pennsylvania Paranormal Association. I looked him up

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Speaker 1: and it seems like he's featured on some kind of

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Speaker 1: some ghost hunter type TV shows. The one that was

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Speaker 1: I forget the name, is called like Paranormal nine one

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Speaker 1: one or something, And based on his quotes, I think,

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Speaker 1: I think this guy seems to uh take a sort

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Speaker 1: of ghost realist position, at least like he he uh

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Speaker 1: he cites, for example, the advice of a of a

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Speaker 1: spirit medium as if he believes this is likely to

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Speaker 1: contain information. And so do you think there are skeptical

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Speaker 1: ghost hunters who you call them they show up at

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Speaker 1: their door and you're like, hey, I think I've got

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Speaker 1: a hunting and their first thing as well. Look, first

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Speaker 1: of all, ghost aren't real well there and there could be.

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Speaker 1: There could be open minded but skeptical ghost hunters. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I I feel like that's the

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Speaker 1: attitude I would try to take. I would say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I probably I think most ghost sightings are probably all

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Speaker 1: of them are not really a spectral beings from another play,

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Speaker 1: and they're probably something about the perception of the person experiencing.

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Speaker 1: But you don't know for sure. I mean you at

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Speaker 1: least look and see, you try to find some out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it would be beneficial to have more people

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Speaker 1: in that in that mode where like they're an expert

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Speaker 1: you consult and they're like, okay, there are no said

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Speaker 1: there's there no ghosts, but here a list of things

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Speaker 1: that that could contribute to this this very real and

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Speaker 1: potentially frightening experience that you have. I'm sure there are

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Speaker 1: some people like that, but I guess I would assume

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Speaker 1: this may not be fair. I don't know, but I

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Speaker 1: would assume if you've got like TV shows, you're you're

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Speaker 1: probably at least at least for the cameras, meaning into

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Speaker 1: embracing the sort of ghost realist position. Yeah, nobody's watching.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could watch it. I could. I guess

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Speaker 1: I could imagine a ghost Hunter show with this kind

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Speaker 1: of a theme, like we're here to bust the ghosts,

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Speaker 1: but not only the ghost themselves, with the idea of

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Speaker 1: ghosts that that could be fine kind of a pin

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Speaker 1: and teller um, you know, kind of approach to it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: sure right. I don't know, it could be done well,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like like most things, you know, it

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Speaker 1: could be done well if it was done well. But

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Speaker 1: coming back to this article, the thing that really got

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Speaker 1: a hook in my brain about it and that I

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Speaker 1: thought was really interesting was that the article made an

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Speaker 1: attempt to posit a physical mechanism by which thunderstorms allow

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Speaker 1: ghosts to appear. And I think basically the implication is

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Speaker 1: that ghosts need to get charged up by lightning. It's

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Speaker 1: not said explicitly, but this does appear to be the

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Speaker 1: implication given by the guy sided in this article. So

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Speaker 1: to quote from the article, Some bel that apparitions or

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Speaker 1: spirits needs some source of energy to manifest their presence

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Speaker 1: into the physical plane. In order to communicate with the living.

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Speaker 1: This could include drawing energy from electrical circuits and even batteries.

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Speaker 1: And then this is quoting from Keys, if a spirit

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Speaker 1: is trying to manifest, that is, become physically visible, it

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Speaker 1: will pull energy out of the environment to do that.

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Speaker 1: This could include heat, as cold spots are commonly reported,

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Speaker 1: as well as in areas where haunting has been reported.

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Speaker 1: It seems to be shortly after a lightning storm that

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Speaker 1: they do notice an increase, he said. And then then

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Speaker 1: this is the part where Keys claims that his psychic

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Speaker 1: medium will back up the fact that after a thunderstorm

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Speaker 1: there is quote a lot more activity. Um. Now, you know,

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Speaker 1: as as I think, uh, we'll be clear if you've

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Speaker 1: listened to us for a while or even from our

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Speaker 1: earlier discussion, I would say we generally take a you know,

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Speaker 1: broadly open minded, but specifically skeptical position on the physical

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Speaker 1: reality of paranormal reports like this. So so while we're

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Speaker 1: not going to embrace the ghost realist position, I would

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Speaker 1: be potentially open to the claim from the the experience

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Speaker 1: of a paranormal investigator who says that thunderstorms are correlated

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Speaker 1: with increased reports of ghost sightings, poulter geist hauntings and

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Speaker 1: so forth. So I think that could well be true,

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Speaker 1: and that could well be informed by experience, because there

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Speaker 1: would be nothing supernatural in that. You just have to say, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: people do say they get haunted more often after there's

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Speaker 1: been a storm or around the time of a storm. Um,

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Speaker 1: But I would tend to think that if this is true,

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Speaker 1: the mechanism would more likely be the thunderstorm somehow causes

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Speaker 1: the perception of ghosts and wandering spirits rather than literally

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Speaker 1: conjuring them. Yeah, I mean we have to remember that

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Speaker 1: what is what does lightning do? But but very briefly

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Speaker 1: illuminates the darkened world, um, and just a flash and

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Speaker 1: gives us a chance to sort of fill in in

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Speaker 1: the gaps there with whatever you might you know, expect

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Speaker 1: to be there in the storm. That's a really good point,

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Speaker 1: and it's further informed by some of the stuff that's

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Speaker 1: quoted in this article. Is like, what are the most

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00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: common things people report as evidence of hauntings in their homes?

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00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 1: According to this paranormal investigator. He says that, Okay, so

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00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: first of all, you've got I think, you know, visual

404
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: evidence such as people witnessing shadows and spectral human forms,

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Speaker 1: which I mean seems like the darkened sky, and then

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00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: like briefly illuminated flashes of lightning. That seems like, okay,

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00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: that's sort of perfect conditions to create illusory perceptions of

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Speaker 1: strangely shaped shadows and things like that. But then another

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Speaker 1: thing that it identifies, and this is something that I

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Speaker 1: think from my reading, is is a very common, UH

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Speaker 1: source of paranormal reports, what what I would call appliance phenomena. UM.

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Speaker 1: So the the article says, quote reports of lights flickering

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Speaker 1: and electronic equipment turning on and off on its own

414
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: even when unplugged is common. Other people report more physical activities,

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Speaker 1: such as doors opening or closing, lights or TVs turning

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Speaker 1: off by themselves. Believe it or not, we've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of reports of stereos radios turning themselves on when

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Speaker 1: they're not even plugged in, and so, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to judge just from generalizations like this, but it's

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Speaker 1: funny to me how much like everything that was just listed,

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Speaker 1: except for the unplugged part UH is stuff that would

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Speaker 1: be pretty much perfectly explained by the physical effects of

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Speaker 1: a storm. So like doors opening and closing by themselves.

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Speaker 1: Of course, during a storm, you have wind and pressure

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Speaker 1: differentials that can blow a door one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: And then the appliance phenomena, that's the the anomalous activation

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Speaker 1: or deactivation of electrical appliances, which I know from personal

428
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: experience and probably most of you do as well, that

429
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: this can happen due to storms affecting the power grid

430
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: and the power lines leading to your house. And Rob,

431
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever had this happen in

432
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: your house, but sometimes, like power supply issues during a

433
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: storm don't affect the entire house at once, you know,

434
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: so like you can have um uh, you can have

435
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: like a power outage where just everything goes out. We

436
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: usually recognize what that is, but we we occasionally have

437
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: stuff happen where, you know, like some parts of the

438
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: household kind of flash on and off and other things won't. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

439
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: Now I think that would not explain issues where people

440
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: are claiming that appliances that are not plugged in start

441
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: turning on and stuff, Like a lot of the reports

442
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: emphasize these extra levels of implausibility. You know, the stereo

443
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: wasn't even plugged in and it started playing Whalen and uh,

444
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: I have no way of knowing this, but part of

445
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: me just kind of suspects that the appliance was unplugged.

446
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: Claim In particular, it seems like a like a just

447
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: a very likely exaggeration place to go, like maybe you

448
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: witness some apparently anomalous activation or deactivation of an appliance,

449
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: an electrical appliance, and it feels notable when you first

450
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: notice it, but then thinking back on it, uh, oh yeah,

451
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: sometimes things do just turn on and off. This kind

452
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: of needs some extra beef. And it's like, well, we're

453
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 1: we even sure it was plugged in. It might not

454
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: have even been plugged in. Yeah, I mean, we have

455
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: so many things plugged in these days. It's sometimes it's

456
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: hard to keep count of what's what's plugged in, what's unplugged.

457
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: And you got to unplug one thing and actually unplugged

458
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: the other. So plenty of room for misunderstanding and altered

459
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: memory there. Yeah. But so the other main fork of

460
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: the storm causation here on on the hauntings I would

461
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: think would tend to be um. The effects of storms

462
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: on human psychology is storms or even atmospheric conditions before

463
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: or after storms yeah, I mean this makes perfect sense.

464
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: You know, ghosts are often associated with darkness. Lightning again

465
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: momentarily illuminates the dark. And even if it's not nighttime. Uh,

466
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, you have a storm roll in, what does

467
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: it do? It brings a certain level of darkness and

468
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: shadow with it, throwing the rain, uh, some booming thunder,

469
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: and you have just a cree the environment not just creepy.

470
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking about the informational and sensory effects of storms.

471
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: Coming back to that grainy photo we were talking about earlier,

472
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: I would argue that stormy weather reduces the sensory resolution

473
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: of your environment. Um, So there's darkening due to cloud cover.

474
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: They're less light means less visual information or certainly less

475
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: certainty in your visual information. And then once you get

476
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: mist and rain, visibility is further reduced. And wind and

477
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: thunder and rain also reduced the auditory clarity of your environment.

478
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 1: So imagine, you know, turning up the volume on a

479
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: staticky radio channel. It's harder to discern the true signals

480
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,959
Speaker 1: sound signals around you, and it's easier to mistakenly perceive

481
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: a signal within the noise. And I think this would

482
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: fit with what I said earlier about ghosts so often

483
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: appearing these days on low resolution film, video and audio recordings. Yeah,

484
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: if I'm not sure what I see, if I'm not

485
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: sure what is recorded in one form or another, then

486
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: that creates an opportunity to lean into some sort of

487
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: supernatural understanding of what it might be. Now, I was

488
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: trying to think about other things here where, um, could

489
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: could there be other sensations people get maybe when a

490
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: storm is approaching that puts them in an alternative, an

491
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: alternative state of mind, or has some detectable effect on

492
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: humans that could lead to paranormal experiences. Um, I'm not

493
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: convinced on this one, but there there are at least

494
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: some questions I would like to pose. Um. And So,

495
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: for example, one of the things I was thinking about

496
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: was barometric pressure. So we all live under atmospheric pressure

497
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: at sea level. Under normal conditions, you walk around with

498
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: about fourteen points seven pounds per square inch of atmosphere

499
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: pressing down on and around you. But we don't normally

500
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: perceive the weight of the atmosphere because were equalized to it. Uh.

501
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: And in fact, if a significant amount of that weight

502
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: were to be removed, we could probably notice it like

503
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: if you go high up enough, if you go to

504
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: a high altitude, you can feel a difference in the

505
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: reduced air pressure, obviously, because you know the higher up

506
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: you go, the less atmosphere there is two is above

507
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: you to press down. But air pressure at any surface

508
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: altitude is variable, so at sea level, changes in the weather,

509
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: changes of the heating of the Earth's surface can cause

510
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: imbalances in barometric pressure. So as you have a region

511
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: of the Earth's surface that gets hot, that hot air rises,

512
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: you can almost imagine it being sucked up into the

513
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: upper atmosphere by a giant vacuum. This forms a vacuum

514
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: below it. It forms a low pressure system. And when

515
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: you have a low pressure region, pressure is falling. That

516
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: means air from the surrounding regions of the Earth's surface

517
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: will flow into that area of falling pressure to compensate

518
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: and perceive this flow of air as wind. This is

519
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: what wind is uh. And then the rising warm air

520
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: in a low pressure system also carries with it water

521
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: vapor content, which condenses into clouds and eventually has to

522
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: fall back down as rain. So falling barometric pressure is

523
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: generally taken as a sign that storms are coming. If

524
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: your barometric pressure is going down and your wind speed

525
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: is increasing, you can be pretty sure there is a

526
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: storm headed your way. So that's generally factual. But I

527
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: guess what I was wondering about was, well, okay, so

528
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: do signs like that, Does low or falling barometric pressure

529
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: have any effect on humans that could lead to sort

530
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: of different states of mind or behavior? This one seems

531
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: uncertain to me. I'm not sure psychological studies have tracked

532
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: all kinds of effects of weather on mood, cognition, and behavior,

533
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: and it seems to me that while there have been

534
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: a few studies finding some effects of barometric pressure, if

535
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: those effects are sound, they appear to be a lot

536
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: more subtle than the stronger effects of factors like temperature.

537
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: But to cite just a couple at least of the

538
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: reported effects. For for one example, I was looking at

539
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: a study called a Warm Heart and a Clear Head,

540
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: The Contingent Effects of Whether on mood and Cognition. This

541
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: was published in Psychological Science in two thousand five. This

542
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: was a study of weather as a as a function

543
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: generally of seasonal changes, and and looking somewhat into questions

544
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: about seasonal effective disorder. But the authors here right in

545
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: their abstract quote in two correlational studies and an experiment

546
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: manipulating participants time outdoors pleasant weather, this would mean higher

547
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: temperature or higher barometric pressure was related to higher mood,

548
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: better memory, and broaden cognitive style during the spring. As

549
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: time spent outside increased, the same relationships between mood and

550
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: whether we're not observed during other times of year though,

551
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: and indeed, hotter weather was associated with lower mood in

552
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: the summer. Uh of course, obviously you know you can

553
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: have hot weather in the summer that is associated with

554
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: low pressure regions that lead up to to a storm.

555
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: And to further elucidate their findings that they're right in

556
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: their results section that quote. As in some of the

557
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: previous research, and they cite Clark and Watson in nine

558
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: and Watson in two thousand, neither temperature nor barometric pressure

559
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: was directly related to mood valance. However, the interactions of

560
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: time spin outside with temperature and with barometric pressure, we're

561
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: both significantly related to mood valence in the expected direction.

562
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: As time spin outside increase, the temperature, mood and pressure

563
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: mood relationships became more positive. So basically, if you have participants,

564
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: if you tell them they need to spend more than

565
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: thirty minutes outside. Higher temperatures and higher pressure are associated

566
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: with better moods and outcomes, um and uh and but

567
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: if you have people spend less than thirty minutes outside,

568
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: then the relationship is actually reversed. So like good weather

569
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: outside and having to stay indoors apparently has has a

570
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: negative effect on mood and cognition. In this finding, R Yeah,

571
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: I think most of us can relate to that. You know,

572
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: if you if it's a nice day outside, but it's

573
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: a day where you only get to experience that whilst

574
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: moving from one indoor environment to another, yeah, that's kind

575
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: of a bummer. But if you get to be outside

576
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: the whole day or a large portion of the day,

577
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: and that's great. But unfortunately, so while this did look

578
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: at barometric pressure as one of the things informing the

579
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: the weather states, it was looking at this combination of

580
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: temperature and barometric pressure. What they were really looking at

581
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: was like, what are the effects of good good you know,

582
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: so like high pressure, high temperature. Is there anything that

583
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: directly tests for no? No, no, what is it? What

584
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: is it about low pressure? Specifically? You know that state

585
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: when you would expect a storm to be heading your way. Uh.

586
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: There are some other findings that seem potentially more directly

587
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: informative on this question, but I also feel somewhat cautious

588
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: about them that they don't feel uh, super conclusion of. So,

589
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: for example, one study I came across was published in

590
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: the Canadian Journal of Psychiatry in two thousand three by

591
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: Thomas Shorey at All, and it looked at documented emergency

592
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: psychiatric visits to a city psychiatric emergency room in the

593
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: year ninet in a mid sized city, and they also

594
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: looked at city police department data and suicide data, and

595
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: what they found was, quote, the data suggests that total

596
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: numbers of acts of violence and emergency psychiatry visits are

597
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: significantly associated with low barometric pressure. But then they found

598
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: that psychiatric in patient admissions and suicides were not associated

599
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: with any of the weather variables they investigated. So that's

600
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: one of those things that's okay that that's a bird's

601
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: eye level observation of something that happened in one city

602
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: that might mirror it further investigation. But I don't think

603
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: we could say anything conclusive just based on that, um,

604
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: so I would be skeptical about drawing two many conclusions

605
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: from from ideas about the relationship between barometric pressure specifically

606
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: and psychology, but the conditions that precede a storm, both

607
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: the obvious and cognitively recognized conditions like clouds, darkening skies,

608
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: and thunder, and then perhaps some subconsciously perceived conditions like

609
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: dropping barometric pressure or increasing winds. I think it could

610
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: possibly give rise to a different state of mind when

611
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: a storm is approaching, certainly the cognitively recognized ones. Thank So,

612
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: I think these are all excellent ideas to keep in

613
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: mind as we proceed through the rest of the episode.

614
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: Where I thought we might just look at some various

615
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,959
Speaker 1: ghosts and monsters and sometimes divine or partially divine figures

616
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: from around the world that have something to do with

617
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: with whether or in or at least in one in

618
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: one case, has nothing to do with what there but

619
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: gets into the idea of a ghost harbinger. So, um,

620
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: first of all, we'll go ahead and get the one

621
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: out of the way that doesn't really seem to have

622
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: anything to do with weather. Um. Well, actually, I guess

623
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: I have a couple of them here, and the first

624
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: one here is is her name the Hunter. Have you

625
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: heard of this particular ghost, not until you introduced him

626
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 1: to me. So this is apparently a ghostly phosphorescent mounted

627
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: hunter said to ride through the woods surrounding Windsor Castle

628
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: in the UK. He's covered in furs and his head

629
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: is obscured by the skull and antlers of a great stack.

630
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: Now when I when I heard about this, I had to,

631
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 1: of course look it up in in Carol Rose's encyclopedic

632
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: volumes on monsters and fairies and whatnot, and she makes

633
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: a possible connection here between this legend and older Celtic

634
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: beliefs in a particular horned fertility god whose name was

635
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: Sir nunus Um. That's c e r in you in

636
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: an Os. That's at least one modern spelling of it.

637
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: But this, uh, this particular their apparition was was referenced

638
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 1: by Shakespeare, and in the twentieth century at least has

639
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: come to be seen as a harbinger of disaster, not

640
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: of storms, but of economic and political disaster, which I

641
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: found interesting. So sightings of the Hunter here have been

642
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: attributed to the ninety one economic depression, the nineteen thirty

643
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: six abdication crisis, the nineteen thirty nine Declaration of War

644
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: and the nineteen fifty two death of George the sixth.

645
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: Another version I've read is that her name the Hunter

646
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: always appears when a monarch is close to death. Well,

647
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: this raises a question for me about a distinction we

648
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: could make about Harbinger deities, or maybe not deities. I

649
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: don't know if if her name here is a is

650
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: a god or just a creature being of some kind,

651
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: whatever you would call it. These Harbinger beings, you could

652
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: say that, okay, if they appear right before a disaster

653
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: of some kind, whether that's a hurricane or or an

654
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: economic depression or the death of a monarch, are appearing

655
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: in a benign spirit saying like, hey, i have divine

656
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: fore knowledge because I'm of the other plane. I'm not

657
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: of this world, so I'm not bound by time, and

658
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm just giving you a warning, like I'm here to

659
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: let you know so you can prepare. Or are they

660
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: on the sort of uh, disastrous causation side is like,

661
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, are they an ill omen is seeing them

662
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: in some way part of the causative structure of the

663
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: disaster that comes, or do they even directly bring it about?

664
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: By appearing. Yeah, yeah, you see various interpretations I guess

665
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: of what exactly is going on. Um, and and well

666
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: we'll keep discussing this. But another little tale that I

667
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: read this was in Roses book, referring to work by

668
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 1: folklore's Ruth Tongue. Um, it's a story Tongue rights of

669
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: the this tale that was circulating about three British youths

670
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: who are decked out in the teddy boy style of

671
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties with up if if you need a

672
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: visual of what that would look like. Uh, they were

673
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: they were, you know, up to I don't know if

674
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: they were up to no good, but they were. They

675
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: were out. They were hanging out in the woods and

676
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: what do they find? A horn? And um, I believe

677
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: the story goes that they're thinking, oh, well, there must

678
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: have been some sort of a film shoot going on here,

679
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,479
Speaker 1: and they left a prop. Uh, we've got this horn,

680
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and blow it. So they blow the

681
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: horn and then sure enough, the unseen spirit begins to

682
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: pursue them through the woods and you know, getting closer

683
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: and closer, and finally an arrow seems to fly uh

684
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: and slays one of them dead. But there's not a

685
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: single physical wound. It seems to have been some sort

686
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: of a ghost era. Uh so that's that's a that's

687
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: a fun little tale as well. And of course this

688
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: all relates back to other traditions of the wild hunt

689
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: myth of some sort of of a ghostly being or

690
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: beings sometimes in the company of of of hell hounds

691
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: that goes out on strange hunts in the night and

692
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: you don't want to on a foul of them. Something

693
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: is incongruous between that and the teddy boy thing. I'm

694
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: hung up on the teddy boy detail. Is this a

695
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: commentary on the teddy boy fashion trend or I think

696
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, on the youth of the day.

697
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: So it's like whatever the youth. You can imagine various

698
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: youth fashion trends in Britain and h and then being

699
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: reflected in versions of this story. It makes it seem

700
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: very cinematic. I can imagine the cinematic version is so

701
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: if her name has a stag skull on top of

702
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: his head and you look up teddy boy hairstyles, I

703
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: mean you could see some certain basic shape and contour

704
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: similarities where their pompadours look kind of like stag skulls. Yeah, yeah,

705
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: I guess without horns. But now as far as his

706
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: ghostly harbingers go, I know some of you are probably

707
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: thinking of this. Um, this is more in the realm

708
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: of cryptids and and ufo ology. But um, there's the

709
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: the alleged supernatural harbinger of the Silver Bridge collapse of

710
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven. There's the bridge that spanned the Ohio River.

711
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: The Mothman. Uh. They've been books and movies about this,

712
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: but the connection, the original connection between the collapse and

713
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 1: sightings of the Mothman, I'm to understand, are largely due

714
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: to the writings of ufo ologist John Keel. I think

715
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: this story is the inspiration behind the plot of that

716
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: Richard Gear movie The Mothman Prophecies, isn't it It is? Yeah,

717
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: I've never seen it, but I am familiar with you

718
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: know what, so we watched it a few years back.

719
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: We'd like to revisit, Uh, not just classic horror films,

720
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: but you know, Rachel and I sometimes watch like Fallen

721
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: by the Wayside, horror films that nobody really talks about anymore,

722
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: And so this one was what did this come out

723
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: in the early two thousands, or something. Um, I think

724
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: that sometime around then has Richard Gear and it's about

725
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: this whole situation, and you know what, I gotta says,

726
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: It's not perfect, but there it's got some good ghostly

727
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: atmosphere and it was actually pretty spooky, A pretty solid

728
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: thumbs up. Now, there are some other Harbinger spirits of note.

729
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: There's the Chirath, which is a harbinger spirit. It in

730
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: the folklore of whales. It's a bandshe like being that

731
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: whales and groans as she passes through the city streets

732
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: at night, warning of impending disaster, including epidemics, which of

733
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: course is interesting. And then, of course, speaking of there's

734
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: the Banshee of Irish legend that whales under the window

735
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: of a family member to portend that family member's death.

736
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: I guess this comes back to the question I brought

737
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: up a minute ago, because I think I've read about

738
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: this in the context of the band sheet before, where

739
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: it's not really clear to me whether the belief is

740
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: that the band she knows the death is going to

741
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: happen and is sort of informing the family of such

742
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: by their behavior, or whether or not it's intentional on

743
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: the Banshe's part the banshees letting them know, or the

744
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: bandshe's presence is somehow causing the death. Yeah, yeah, so

745
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: unanswerable questions about the strange doings of of weird creatures.

746
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: And I guess that's one of the reasons that makes

747
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: them weird in other world is you don't know what

748
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: their role in the whole scenario is. Uh, you know,

749
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? Are you're feeding off of

750
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: the the of the misery of the bereavement, or are

751
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 1: you here as an agent of death? What exactly is

752
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: going on? Are you're trying to warn us or is

753
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: it something to be on any of these interpretations, they're

754
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 1: here on ghost business. That's all you know. Now, let's

755
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: get back into just ideas of storms and rain and

756
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 1: water and cataclysmic weather. So plenty of cultures have major

757
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: flood storm and cataclysm myths and and China is no exception. There's,

758
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: of course, the story of You the Great who overcomes

759
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: the day lose with drainage channels and earthwork. Uh. There's

760
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: also the Chinese flood myth concerning the water god Uh

761
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: Gong Gong Uh sometimes relegated as one of the four perils.

762
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: So this is a vast serpent with a human head

763
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: red hair, and Gong Gong is said to have caused

764
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 1: a great flood by bumping into Mount Bouzio, which caused

765
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: the sky pillar to collapse, resulting into cosmic disorder. You

766
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: end up having to have the goddess nuah Uh step

767
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: in repair the sky pillar in order to bring order

768
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: back out of chaos. And sometimes this myth and the

769
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: myth of You the Great are are linked together. And

770
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: then there's the myth of whole Ye the Archer. You

771
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: may remember him from his key row in the Myth

772
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: of the Surplus Sons, or his part in the lunar

773
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: myth of Changa and the Potion of Immortality. But to refresh.

774
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,479
Speaker 1: During the time of the Ten Sons, Emperor Yau calls

775
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: upon Ye to shoot the nine Surplus Sons out of

776
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: the sky, and he does so, saving the earth from

777
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: fiery desolation. But the time of the Ten Sons is

778
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: also a period of great disruption, and many unnatural beings

779
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: roam free to commit great offenses against the gods, and

780
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: so Emperor Yao charges Ye with the destruction of these

781
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: monsters as well. He has to hunt them down and

782
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: slay them in order to protect the people. So is

783
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: this after the sun shoots down the nine surplus sons

784
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: and then goes to he has to clean up afterwards

785
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: with the monsters, right, yeah, yeah, because the cosmic disorder,

786
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: it kind of is You've left with the idea that

787
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: it kind of unleashed these beings or it created an

788
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: atmosphere in which they could thrive, and now they need

789
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: to be put back and check rounded up the loose ponies. Yeah. Now,

790
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 1: according to the translator's John Major at All in two

791
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: thousand tens the Hawaii non Z, a Guide to the

792
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: Theory and Practice of Government in early Han China, these monsters,

793
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: these monsters that that Ye has to has to hunt down. Um.

794
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: They pop up in various warring states and Han works

795
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: and seem to represent destructive forces of nature. One of

796
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: these monsters you'll learn about next week on The Monster

797
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: Factor or Wednesday Shorty episode UH. And that one I

798
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: think you can also make. There's also a strong evidence

799
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: to support the idea that it represents some sort of

800
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: natural disaster as well. But there's one uh in particular

801
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: that's very connected to the idea of storm, and that

802
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: is the wind bird daufing, So this literally means a

803
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: strong wind. Sometimes I see it translated as typhoon. It's

804
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: a giant, ferocious bird of prey that brings with its

805
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: strong winds whipped up by its mighty wings, so everywhere

806
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: it goes it brings destructive winds with it. So of

807
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: course he has to has to hunt it down, and

808
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: he uses the Interestingly enough, he basically just uses the

809
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 1: techniques that one would use in hunting birds, especially during

810
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: this time period. He attaches a cord to his arrow

811
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: and shoots the mighty bird out of the sky. He

812
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: holds the cord firmly so that he can, you know,

813
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: sort of keep track of it and kind of bring

814
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: it down, and then he follows that chord to the

815
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: site where he has grounded the mighty uh Daufing, and

816
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: then he cuts its head off with his sword. In

817
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: other tales, he also exacts revenge on the damaging river

818
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: god he Bow, who he blinded in one eye. And

819
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: then he also hunts down or seeks a vengeance the

820
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: wind god thing Bow, who he shot in the knee.

821
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: So you might be a win god on a chariot

822
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: pulled by dragons, or a or a god who actually

823
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: takes on the form of a dragon. But that doesn't

824
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: mean he doesn't have a receipt for you if you

825
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: caused a bunch of storm damage. So this raises a

826
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: thought for me. I'm thinking about, um, what are the

827
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: different influences that determine sort of what level the embodiment

828
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: of the storms uh represents within the pantheon, or maybe

829
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: not even the pantheon. These sort of the supernatural theater

830
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: of a mythological belief system, because I'm thinking about these

831
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: cases where you can have a specific monster or creature.

832
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: In this case, it is a ferocious monster being that

833
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: represents a kind of disorder. It is that it is

834
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: a pony that has gotten loose from a from a

835
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: unharmonious phase of the universe, and it has to be

836
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: slain and set right. So this is the embodiment of

837
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: storms in this one type of mythology. But you have

838
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: plenty of other mythologies where storms are not only part

839
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: of the natural divine order, but they are particularly the

840
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: power of the like most powerful god or the King

841
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: of the gods. Think of you know, the storm associations

842
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: with with Zeus or Jupiter, or the storm associations with

843
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: the some of the chief gods of the ancient Near

844
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 1: Eastern pantheons. Yeah, it's it's it's interesting to think about this. Yeah,

845
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: because you can there's a huge difference between the storm

846
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: that is caused by the high god or a particularly

847
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: powerful deity, one that is worshiped, and a storm caused

848
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: by various monsters that are rampaging. Uh. You know, things

849
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: that represent cosmic disalignment, um and uh. And you know

850
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: you can have ramifications based on how you view that.

851
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: But uh, it's it's interesting to think about, even in

852
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: our modern times, what do we do with hurricanes and

853
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: tropical storms. You know, we aim them and of course

854
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: they're they're very good reasons to name a storm, to

855
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: give it a human name. It it helps, uh in

856
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: communicating things about that storm and tracking them and making

857
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: sure that people are prepared for this particular storm and

858
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: not approaching it like you know, the last storm. You know,

859
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: each each hurricane that makes landfall is coming in a

860
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 1: difference in different intensities, and it's gonna infect a different

861
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: area in a different way. It does seem interesting that

862
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 1: I could be wrong about this, but my gut feeling

863
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: is that people have an easier time knowing which hurricane

864
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: you're talking about when they have names attached to them

865
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: than they would if you were just referencing it by

866
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: like a year or something. You know, yeah, yeah, the

867
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: storm of ninety seven or something. But if you if

868
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: you give it a human name, yeah, you're you're anthropomorphizing

869
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: it a little bit. Just you know, there's no way

870
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: around it. Uh, But people are going to remember it,

871
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: people are going to know it's coming. It seems to

872
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: me that, like when you say Andrew, that conjures up

873
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: like specific imagery that you recall from being associated with

874
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: that name. Verse is like if you were just to

875
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: say the year number. I don't know, maybe it would

876
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: be different if we were referred to it by years,

877
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: but that's my feeling on it. Thank now to move

878
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: elsewhere in the world. Another one that I ran across

879
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: the Blue Men of minch Uh. So. There are a

880
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: lot of mr Folk myths and legends out there that

881
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: involve the creatures having some degree of control over or

882
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: knowledge of weather and storms, and they're ultimately just too

883
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: numerous to go through. There's a lot of similarities between them,

884
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: but this one stood out to me. The mer people

885
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,919
Speaker 1: were said this particular variety of people anyway, were said

886
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: to haunt the Minch passage of the Outer Hebrides off

887
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: of Scotland. Uh. This body of water is known in

888
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: Gaelic as uh thruth nap fear Gorma, the channel of

889
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 1: the blue Men. Uh. So this is also interesting Conserdaly,

890
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: we're talking about gray men, and here we are with

891
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: blue men. So they were said to look like normal humans,

892
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: except up with entirely blue skin and gray beards. And

893
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: it's a treacherous passage of water apparently. And so the

894
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: legend was that the blue men would rise up from

895
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: their deep caves and they would summon fierce storms against

896
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: trespassing human ships and wreck them. But wise captains knew

897
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: that the blue men loved rhyming contests, so they could

898
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: earn the ship's safety across the passage if they just

899
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: had some great rhymes up there at sleeves. Now. Carol

900
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 1: Rosen in her book she she shares that the myth

901
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: is thought to be based on Moorish slaves marooned by

902
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: Vikings in the area during the ninth century. And the

903
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: idea here is that, uh that these these individuals would

904
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:49,720
Speaker 1: have worn long blue robes and gray blue veils. Huh.

905
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: And incidentally, the Tuareg people of of Saharan Africa, uh,

906
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: apparently do wear these fashions like these are the traditional

907
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: fashions of the tire people. Now do you know if

908
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: that's more of a kind of legendary explanation or is

909
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 1: that thought by any modern scholars to have any likely

910
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: explanatory power in the origin of the myth? Well, I

911
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: was looking into it a bit, and apparently Scottish folkloreist

912
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: Donald A. Mackenzie, who lived eighteen seventy three through nineteen

913
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: thirty six, it was kind of the the individual who

914
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: really popularized this hypothesis. And today I think there's some

915
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: individuals who think that the true origin might just be

916
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: accounts of the Tireg people, although the Saharan Africa that traveled, um,

917
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, some sort of you know, communication of this idea,

918
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: maybe that you have some sort of a murfulk tradition

919
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: and you combine that with with uh, you know, some

920
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 1: sort of knowledge of Tareg people and what they wore.

921
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: Or if not the tire people, then perhaps um predecessors

922
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: to them that had similar fashions and similar uh you know,

923
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: dies and use. But another suggest explanation is that this

924
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: belief in the blue people, the blue men, and that

925
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: it refers in some fashion to tattooed pitts. Uh. These

926
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: were have been uh uh you know, people who were

927
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: known for their tattoos, uh. And that the Latin origin

928
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: of picks is painted people. I seem to recall this

929
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,439
Speaker 1: from the Roman period at least some author talking about

930
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: the idea that there would be people in um. I

931
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: don't know what they called it at the time. It

932
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: was at Caledonia, you know, the area that is now Scotland,

933
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: you know, north of England, so you would have had

934
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: Roman Britain, and then at a certain point that you

935
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: have Hadrian's Wall, and then there are tribes that live

936
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: north of that that they regarded as very barbaric, and

937
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: I think they there's some reference there to these people

938
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: being painted in blue, or their warriors being painted in blue. Yeah.

939
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: So ultimately, you know, we don't we don't know exactly

940
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: what the blue men of min is referring to, or

941
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: what indeed what which what influences or what combination of

942
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: influences led to this tradition, but it was said they

943
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: can control the weather, so it's certainly worth mentioning here.

944
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 1: Now another one. I have to get into the realm

945
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: of yokai here for a bit um and. And I'm

946
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 1: especially excited to talk about this because I recently picked

947
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 1: up a fun little book to read with my son

948
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: titled Yokai Attacked the Japanese Monster Survival Guide. Um. This

949
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: is by Yoda and Alt and illustrated by by Tatsuya Marino.

950
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: And it's a fun little book with uh that that

951
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: has some wonderful illustrations but also some great information in it.

952
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: It's well cited and very informative and very fun for

953
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: young readers. Uh so. Uh. I was looking through that

954
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I know there's some yokai

955
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: that relate to the weather or to the water, so

956
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: there's got to be something good in here. It on me. Well,

957
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: there's one by the name of Umi bo Zoo. Uh.

958
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: They're known as the Sea Monks, Japanese yokai said to

959
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: resemble great black bull black beings with glowing eyes emerging

960
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: from the water. Uh In. The black may or may

961
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: not be fur if you could touch it, depending on

962
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: the the account. Also depending on the account, they might

963
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: be vengeful ghosts of the sea. Uh. And in this

964
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: they have much in common with some Chinese ghost traditions

965
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: uh the boat's spirits or fun yura, which you'll find

966
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: illustrations off as well. But in anyway, the the umu

967
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: boz are said to rise from the surface of the

968
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: ocean even during the day. Even so, even if they're

969
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: there's there's nothing going on, you know, with darkness and storm,

970
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 1: but they bring with them atmospheric disturbances and storms. Um.

971
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: And of course this means that ultimately what they're trying

972
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: to do, of course, is they want to bring down vessels.

973
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: They want to cause your ship to sink, drag it

974
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: to the bottom of the ocean. And the smaller ones

975
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: you might be able to drive away, but the larger

976
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: ones are just too powerful. Okay. So this would be

977
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: more in line with the type of creature like the

978
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: in the bird from from Chinese legend that literally brings

979
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: the storm and weather disturbances by its own like it

980
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: directly causes them. Yeah, yeah, it would seem to be

981
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: the case. Um. And these are these are fun ideas

982
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: to get into as well, because first of all, the

983
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: idea of any kind of enormous being certainly, um. You

984
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: know this, this black creature emerging from the water. Uh,

985
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: it instantly makes us think of whales. And indeed, there

986
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: may be some connection there between between these legendary creatures

987
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: and whale sightings. And I also there's the possibility that

988
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: there's some sort of atmosphereic ghost lighting involved as well,

989
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: which is, you know, something worth remembering anytime you're dealing

990
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: with ghosts of the ocean. But one of the interesting

991
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: takes I was reading about the fun yuri that the

992
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: Chinese version of this the boat spirits uh, is that

993
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: they were sometimes attributed with ladling water into ships and

994
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 1: causing them to sink, or or just by their very

995
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: presence causing compasses not to work. But they were also

996
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: said to simply hold ships in place, and some have

997
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: theorized that this might occur due to dead water. So

998
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: this is a nautical phenomenon which UH you see take

999
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: at least a couple of different forms. UH. For instance,

1000
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: you see it in in far northern um environments. You

1001
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: see this situation where slow moving vessels can become stuck

1002
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: due to a thin layer of fresh water spreading over

1003
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: the sea from melting ice. UM. But then also you

1004
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: see the situation with internal waves due to shallow brackish

1005
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: water and the upper layer of the water column, making

1006
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: it where if ship will feel stuck in the water,

1007
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: as if something is holding it there. So it's been

1008
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: hypothesized that this could be a possible one of the

1009
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: possible reasons for this kind of myth, like something is

1010
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: holding the ship in place. What is it? It must

1011
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: be some sort of ghostly presence. Oh yeah, I think

1012
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: the snake spirit. It might have been. In our episodes

1013
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: about the sarcassom seaweed that we uh discussed other other

1014
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: supernatural ideas about the dull drums and ways that your

1015
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: ship can become stuck in water without a propelling wind. Yeah,

1016
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: of course that's interesting too, right because because the the

1017
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: idea of a terrible storm can be devastating to the

1018
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: ship at sea, but also uh a complete absence of

1019
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: weather can be equally disturbing. Yeah. Now here's another creature

1020
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: that came up when I was looking around, and that's

1021
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: uh Um the Alps an interesting lake monster at this

1022
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: time from the folklore of Switzerland centered on the lake

1023
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: um uh Sellsburg see near lucerne uh sidings are recorded

1024
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: from eighty four through nine six. Kind of a bulky,

1025
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: multi limbed dragon creature that may suddenly surface alongside boats

1026
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: and scare people. Also may rage sheep herds at night

1027
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: and leave disturbingly mutilated bodies in its wake. Um, but

1028
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: there are arians in the water. Was said to foretell

1029
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: a powerful storm. Um. And so I had to look

1030
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: this wake up. I wasn't familiar with it. Uh. It's

1031
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: also known as Seeley and it covers forty four acres

1032
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: and reaches depths of thirty seven meters or one feet. Now,

1033
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: in Irish mythology, you also have the Fomorians. Um. These

1034
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: were said to be the original occupants of Ireland who

1035
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: were defeated by the invading fur Bags and then transformed

1036
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: into grotesque monsters or giants. And then of course the

1037
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: to offend Dan and come along and they invade and

1038
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: they defeat the defeat the fur Bags. And so the

1039
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: Fomorians are sometimes attributed with power over weather, over storms,

1040
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: as well as given the power to blight crops. Oh yeah,

1041
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: we we We talked about Fomorians in the context of

1042
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: Kuhlan or Kukullen. Yeah. Now, another interesting monster that is

1043
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: that is definitely tied to the wind. At least in

1044
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: its origins, are the Harpies. And I think harpies are

1045
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: interesting because I think a lot of modern monster fans

1046
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,919
Speaker 1: probably think of of maybe two or three different things

1047
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: when you imagine the harpy. First of all, they're Ray

1048
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: Harry Housing's harpies from Jason and the Argonauts. Do you

1049
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: remember these, Oh, yeah, these terrible blue women with the

1050
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: with the large blue bat wings. Yeah, they have bat

1051
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: like wings in uh, in Jason and the Argonauts. But

1052
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: they're they're pretty creepy, very gargoyle esque. Um. Outside of

1053
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: this tradition, they're they're pretty weak enemies and dungeons and dragons, uh,

1054
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: not very impressive, but there's some cool illustrations of them.

1055
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: And then of course there's the harpy in um the

1056
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: last Unicorn, which is a terrifying and powerful creature that

1057
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: is is pretty much the direct opposite of everything they

1058
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: are in Dungeons and Dragons and so in. I think,

1059
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: you know, generally, in our interpretation of the harpies, we

1060
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: think of grotesque hybrids of vultures and women, sometimes with

1061
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: the other influences thrown in. I've seen accunts where they

1062
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: say that they have bare ears and in wait, bare ears,

1063
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: bare ear, it's like the ears of a bear. I

1064
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: can't even picture bare ears what a bear ears look like.

1065
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, that's why I'm I think we

1066
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: we often just just whittle it down to just uh,

1067
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: you know, an old woman plus uh vulture, you know,

1068
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: because you throw in these other influences. Yet, what does

1069
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: it even mean? Okay, I just time barriers. They're little nubs.

1070
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: I mean like barriers. Do not seem like especially notable

1071
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: kinds of animal ears. Yeah, well maybe an admant more

1072
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: during the time when when this was attributed to their

1073
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: to their their these these monsters. That's such a funny choice.

1074
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: I love it. Now. In Greek and Roman myth the

1075
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: number of the harpies it it varies. There may be

1076
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: as few as one or as many as five. And

1077
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 1: in origin they are linked to traditions of wind spirits,

1078
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: and we see that in the various names that have

1079
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: been attributed to them. So in theogeny Hessiod rights quote

1080
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: and Thomas wedded Electra the daughter of deep flowing ocean

1081
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: and she bare him swift risks and the long haired

1082
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: harpies a yell o storm, swift and nosepates swift flyer

1083
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: who on their swift wings keep pace with the blasts

1084
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: of the winds and the birds for quick as time

1085
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: they dart along. By the way, Dungeons and Dragons gives

1086
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: harpies a laughable forty foot flying speed. Come on, that

1087
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: does not sound as fast as time? What is it? Okay?

1088
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: So I don't know flying speeds usually what is fort Oh?

1089
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,479
Speaker 1: I think I've got a I think my character, who's

1090
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: kind of a whimp, has a thirty foot walking speed.

1091
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, thirty foot walking walking is

1092
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: like a general humanoid walking speed. So the harpie can

1093
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: fly just a little further than a human being can walk.

1094
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: Uh in Dungeons and Dragons, which is clearly this is

1095
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: a creature that needs a needs a reboot. In the

1096
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: Monster Manual, now A Homer also wrote of harpies, particularly

1097
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: the harpy podar j which means a swift foot, and

1098
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: this is said to be the mother of Balius and

1099
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: xanthus the steeds of Achilles, And in a more general sense,

1100
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: the harpy is a human bird hybrid. Of course, and

1101
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: we see a lot of these and global myth cycles,

1102
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: and it's often pointed out that this sort of particular

1103
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: hybrid between humans and creatures of the air, it often

1104
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 1: has some sort of connection between earth and sky, between

1105
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: the world of mortals and the abode of the gods. Uh.

1106
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: The harpy also specifically is often brought up as an

1107
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: example of the monstrous feminine uh in in myth, making

1108
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: so an imagined creature used to convey negative attitudes about

1109
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: females and female bodies. Yeah. I think of it as

1110
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 1: a kind of standard genre of misogynist comment to to

1111
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: compare a woman that you don't like to a harpy. Yeah,

1112
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: but it seems that in their original form, in their origins,

1113
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 1: they were more like minor wind gods or or wind demons,

1114
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: perhaps more in keeping with the furies who might descend

1115
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 1: on a mortal at the behest of a god. By

1116
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: the way, an interesting wrinkle on all of this, I

1117
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: think we've discussed before is that the sirens, who we

1118
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: often think of now, and this is represented in our

1119
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: you think of mermaids, or you think of, you know,

1120
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: beautiful veiled women emerging from the surf, but they were

1121
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: originally bird female hybrids as well, and so ancient depictions

1122
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: of what we might think of as harpies in the

1123
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: modern sense, Uh, might have been sirens or in some cases, uh,

1124
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: just we're something else, some other kind of bird human hybrid.

1125
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: For instance, there is a tomb, the tomb of Xantha's

1126
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: found uh and uh there's a carving from it, various

1127
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: carvings from it, I think that you can find in

1128
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: the British Museum, and it's it's been referred to for

1129
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: a long time as the harpy tom. I mean, you

1130
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: see this winged female figure. Though it's it's far from

1131
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: certain that these were sirens, but they were probably not

1132
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: harpies either. Uh. So I think it's still an open

1133
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 1: question exactly what this particular being is supposed to be,

1134
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: you know, bringing this back to the special poe and

1135
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: see of weather mythology and weather monsters when it comes

1136
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 1: to sailing and ocean going. This reminds me of a

1137
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: few years ago I had a conversation with the author

1138
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: Chet van Douser about his his books about the history

1139
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: of depictions of monsters on maps and um and one

1140
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: of the surprising things about that is if you had

1141
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: to guess, okay, what are the most common types of

1142
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: sea monsters, you would imagine depicted on a map. Uh,

1143
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: you would probably guess what's some kind of like ocean

1144
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: dragon type thing, or maybe the the kraken, or like

1145
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,919
Speaker 1: a snake like sea monster. No, by far, the most

1146
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: common type of monster, at least depicted throughout the Western

1147
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: history of maps, is the siren. If you're gonna have

1148
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: one type of monster on there, it's going to be

1149
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: a siren. And and do you remember if it was

1150
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: the more mur folk style siren or the winged I'm

1151
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 1: cautious to answer that because I'm not positive, but I

1152
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: seem to recall representations both ways. Um, so I guess

1153
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: the wing adverse Asian would probably be closer to this

1154
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 1: association with weather events, Yeah, I would, I would think so. Yeah,

1155
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: they and certainly the the the curious nature of winds

1156
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: and winds at sea. And I guess that's where a

1157
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: lot of this comes back to, like how how do

1158
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: we today and how have people throughout history thought about

1159
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: weather patterns, particularly destructive weather that seem out of the normal. Uh,

1160
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: you know, that are unique and dangerous? How do we

1161
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: think about those? Are those the work of strange creatures

1162
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 1: that we can't quite understand? Are they cosmic? Anomalies. Might

1163
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: there be some sort of magical being that would warn

1164
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: us if these are occurring? Is there some hero that

1165
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: could protect us from them, because they could slay these

1166
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: monsters and return the world to to some sort of normality. Um, yeah,

1167
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating to think about. I wonder about something else,

1168
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: coming back to gray Man type sightings of you know,

1169
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: the being that would warn you about about a coming storm.

1170
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: I wonder to what extent legends like that could also

1171
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: sort of be going the other way in terms of

1172
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: our internal mental causation, meaning like how much of it

1173
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: is based in People have some kind of experience, you know,

1174
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: they see what they think is a is a spectral

1175
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: figure or spirit of something or something, and they want

1176
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: it to mean something. They don't want to just be

1177
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,439
Speaker 1: I saw something weird and there's no reason for it,

1178
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: so they try to connect it to something significant. It's

1179
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: trying to tell me X. This means why when we

1180
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: have unusual experiences. I think it's very natural for us

1181
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: to try to say no, no, no, that was not

1182
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: just an unusual experience. It was an indication of something.

1183
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: It was somehow informative, It meant something, and it seems

1184
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: like possibly the single easiest place you could go to

1185
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: there is connecting it to external environmental events like the weather. Yeah,

1186
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is one reason there's so

1187
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: much weather lore where people can say, oh, you can

1188
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: tell the storm's coming when I don't know when cow

1189
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: sits down at night, or something like. You know, there's

1190
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: a million sayings like that, and it's because weather is

1191
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: constantly changing. So there's just like constant opportunities for you

1192
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: to observe one thing and then something happens with the

1193
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: weather and you make a connection there. Yeah, And our

1194
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: mind is constantly looking for those connections. We want to

1195
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: make those connections, and often with whether the stakes are

1196
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: are enormous, particularly when we're talking about highly destructive weather patterns.

1197
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: So of course we're looking for some sort of connection

1198
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 1: between the things we see in the world and what's

1199
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: going on in the weather. And that includes, uh, things

1200
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: we don't completely see, you know, or we we we

1201
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: miss see, or we misinterpret or hallucinations and so forth,

1202
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I think that Uh. One I guess

1203
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: one place I was going with that is that perhaps

1204
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: that selective sort of meaning seeking whenever you have a

1205
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: strange experience could lead to a form of selective reporting

1206
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: that informs So, you know, somebody thinks they see something

1207
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: weird in a photo or thinks they see something weird

1208
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: on the beach, and then nothing happens the next day. Well,

1209
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know who they really tell about that.

1210
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: But if the next day the hurricane hits and you

1211
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: think you've discovered some kind of uh, informative correlation there,

1212
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: you might be much more likely to tell everybody this story. Yeah,

1213
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: and and if it's not, if not the weather, then

1214
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: perhaps there's something else that occurs. You know, you see

1215
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: something strange and then the next day a monarch dies

1216
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 1: or yeah, storm occurs, or a family member grows sick.

1217
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: Then you can make that connection. You'd be like, ah,

1218
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: this is what that was about. It didn't happen for

1219
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: no reason. It was a warning. It was a communication.

1220
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's funny because if you broughten it that

1221
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: much to just like basically any significant event. I mean,

1222
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,600
Speaker 1: there's always something in the news, you know, it's like

1223
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: something happens every day. Yeah, I mean stuff happens. It

1224
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: seems to happen for no reason. And if that if

1225
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 1: that's the case, you know, you have nothing, but if

1226
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: you have ghosts, well then you have everything. Right. Very nice,

1227
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: very nice to bring it back to Rocky Well, you

1228
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: know they say the moon to the left is a

1229
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 1: part of my thoughts, and a part of my thoughts

1230
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 1: is a part of me is me? Uh So, so

1231
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: maybe before our fangs get too long, we should cut

1232
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: this episode off, all right, But of course we're going

1233
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: to be discussing losts of ghostly and monstrous things for

1234
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 1: the rest of this month, and it probably a little

1235
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: bit beyond We're we're we're we're well into the season now,

1236
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 1: so stay tuned. It should be fun. Uh. In the meantime,

1237
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: if you want to listen to other episodes of Stuff

1238
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:30,799
Speaker 1: to Blow your mind, Her core episodes are on Tuesday

1239
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: and Thursday, we have an artifact or a monster fact

1240
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. Monday is a listener mail. Friday is Weird

1241
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: how Cinema. That's our time to just unwind and discuss

1242
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 1: a weird film, and of course we have some very

1243
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: spooky films to discuss this month as well. And then

1244
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: on the weekend we do a vault episode, which is

1245
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,560
Speaker 1: of course a rerun from the previous year. I just

1246
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: want to give a teaser that this week's episode of

1247
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 1: Weird House Cinema I think is without a doubt, can

1248
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: be our longest most epic episode of all time, and

1249
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: uh may may remain that way because I don't know

1250
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: if it can be outdone. I wonder if it's longer

1251
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: than the movie itself. I think that at least once. Okay, yeah,

1252
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: all right, we'll tune in to find out what that is. Huge.

1253
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our wonderful audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson.

1254
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

1255
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1256
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you

1257
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your

1258
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production

1259
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

1260
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're

1261
01:10:42,560 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: listening to your favorite shows. Four four ninbre numbers nine