1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Michael barn and I'm Scott Sashnik. Every week 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: at this time plus Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, we explored 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: them big money issues in the world of sports. On 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: this week's show, we have Carlos Rodriguez, owner and CEO 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: of European et Sports team G two. But first let's 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: look at the top stories of the week. Joining us 7 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter Evan W. Williams. I 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: want to start with the NBA. Now they're saying that 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: fans can purchase the fourth quarter of any NBA game 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: on League Pass. Yeah, we've been hearing about this for 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 1: some time. This is not a surprise. This is one 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: of those Oh they finally got around to announcing this. 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: They're they're doing it that they were they were testing 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: microbis in app That's what this is about. Do you 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: want to sample a piece of a game? I think 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: the NBA knows that some people just kind of like 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: the last five minutes of the fourth quarter or the 18 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: fourth quarter or in the betting world. Now, Michael, you 19 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: may have heard that betting may come to many states. Yeah, 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: the tight game or you know it's right on the 21 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: line and somebody may want to tune in and see 22 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: this is just a natural extension of the digital sports 23 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: viewing world and things that are things that are coming, 24 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: um than another revenue dream for the NBA. Of the 25 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: four leagues, the NBA certainly has done the best so 26 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: far in breaking down it's digital media rights in an 27 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: ala carte way for a while now, I think three 28 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: seasons you've been able to buy a single game for 29 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: seven dollars. All of their league packages also have monthly deals. 30 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: This is certainly the smallest two dollars for a for 31 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: a fourth quarter, Scott said, micro purchases, it's exist in 32 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: video games right now. It's it's all over trying to 33 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: get people to part with their money in smaller ways, 34 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: uh more frequently, and fourth quarter is certainly something that 35 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: the NBA fans might do and Bar it's very funny 36 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: now we talked about O t T. That's all the 37 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: rage these days. O t T direct to consumer. When 38 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: you think about it, League Pass was the first O 39 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: t T. That's in essence what it is. That's a 40 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: direct to Summer's service that's been around a really long time. 41 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: So it's no surprise that the NBA is in here. First, 42 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: I gotta bring up a quote from NBA Commissioner Adam Silver. 43 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: He says that we imagine a situation where a fan 44 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: has dinner at eight o'clock and only has about thirty 45 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: minutes and can choose to buy a half hour of 46 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: a game. Now, I get it. That's that's nice. But 47 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm from the school I know here I go. 48 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: It's like, there's a reason why there are four quarters 49 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: in the NBA, and there's a reason why there are 50 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: five hundred miles in a in a race. And it's 51 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not. I get it, But I want 52 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: to see the whole game in the brickyard four you 53 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: know what I But if you want to see the 54 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: whole game, you you pay. You can pay seven dollars 55 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: and you can and you can see it. For the 56 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: people that only want to watch the fourth quarter, which 57 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: is me. If I want to watch basketball at all, uh, 58 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: the fourth quarter might be enough. I'm gonna mutch basketball 59 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: at all. Man. It's like basketball. I I will say 60 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: it and say it again. Basketball to me is out 61 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: of the four major food groups of the sports, is 62 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: the best, and because it's short and concise, about over 63 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: a little over two hours. So moving right along, let's 64 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: talk about companies around the world. They're gonna spend sixty 65 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: five point eight billion dollars on sponsorship deals this year. 66 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: But how many of these businesses know if it actually 67 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: works or not? Yeah, that's that's the role. And I've 68 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: been asking this for a long time. Every time I 69 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: deal with folks who sponsor and they're spending big dollars, 70 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: whether it's naming rights and now. Of course they're usually 71 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: way more intricate than that. I always ask them and 72 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: it's interesting to hear the responses. How do you measure 73 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: the return on investment? How do you know whether you're 74 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: getting your money's worth? And some don't always have good 75 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: answers that they figured they do. They're trying new new analytics, 76 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: but according to m K. T. G here, obviously a 77 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: lot can't really say whether they're getting them what it's worth. 78 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever really had a sponsor that 79 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: was able to fully break down R O I on 80 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: a on an advertising deal, and I think it might 81 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: be one of the reasons why you're seeing advertising deals change. 82 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: You know, in the past couple of weeks, I've written 83 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: about state Farms, New Deal and naming rights deals for 84 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: stadiums and arenas, UH and MasterCards, New E Sports Deal 85 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: and and and both of them essentially said that the 86 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: traditional ad model, where you're paying either for traditional commercial 87 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: time or to put your signs somewhere UH is going 88 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: out of fashion, and a large part of that is 89 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: for this reason that it's very difficult to assess how 90 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: effective that is in either driving your brand out there 91 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: in terms of brand awareness or acquiring customers directly. You know, 92 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: I think that it works very well for a sport 93 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: like hockey because you put the brand, let's say you 94 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: put p n C Bank on the side wall of 95 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: the rink and the cameras going on, and it's unl 96 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: like the NBA, where the sponsorship changes because of their 97 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: the way they have it going you it has to 98 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: stay there. It's stationary. Well you're ready, I'm gonna bring 99 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: up Jackson because I gotta bring my son. And you 100 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: know what I love Last night, I swear this happened 101 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: nine years old. We're watching the Rangers in the Islanders 102 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: preseason game from Madison Square Garden last night, and the 103 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: camera pan and one of the dash or board advertisers 104 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: as Duncan Donuts. Who has me know was changing the 105 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: name and it had the d D. He goes, hey, Dad, 106 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: are they gonna take away one of those d's nine 107 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 1: years old? And he knew it, my boy. And those 108 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: were some of our topics for this week's show. Now 109 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: let's get into Scott Evan and my interview with the 110 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: guests we have this week. Carlos rod Riggez. He is 111 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of E sports team G two. 112 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: Carlos is a retired mid leaner and known for playing 113 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: sk gaming. Carlos, thanks for joining us. Thanks very much. 114 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: I love being here. We've been doing this show for 115 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: over a year now. I think you're you're the first 116 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: E sports specific guest that we've had, so for our 117 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: audience who doesn't fully know E sports, certainly not as 118 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: well as you G two. Is that the real Madrid 119 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: of European E sports? Is that a fair comparison. People 120 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: actually sort of compare us to real very very often. 121 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: And you know, E sports, which is video game competition. 122 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: We've been here for a long time and people sort 123 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: of understand and know who's behind G two E sports 124 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: and and you know, all the management, the players, all 125 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: are known figures within our industry. Um so yeah, people 126 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: sort of connect us to Real Madrid very often, which 127 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: I don't dislike because I've been a historically a real 128 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: Madrid fan. Are you not? Are you Ronaldo? I actually 129 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: a more Ronaldo fan than a Realmodrid fan even now? 130 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: Are you went and went to exactly how did you start? 131 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: But when did you start playing? How does that happen? Yeah? 132 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: So it's it's not like from one day to another, right, 133 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: But you know, I was very young. I always, you know, 134 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: competed in traditional sports. I competed in soccer. I played 135 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: for Alantic every body way, which but I have I 136 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 1: have a good story. Um, first day doing the tests 137 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: for Atlantic Co Madrid, which is like the arrival of 138 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: Real Madrid from back in the days. And the first 139 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: thing the coach says, which nowadays would be impossible, but 140 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: the first thing he asked is who's the real Marid 141 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: fan from here? And a few kids raise their hands. 142 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: They can't be the smart kids to raise They got kicked. 143 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: They got kicking the test, and there I realized that 144 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: I would do everything for success because I did not 145 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: raise my hand. I'm the worst fan ever, you know, 146 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: So I kept playing, and I kept it as a secret. 147 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: And and that's you know, is this a fun little story? Uh? 148 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: You were smart? Yeah, I know that that's how it goes. 149 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: And I was. I was eleven years of age approximately, 150 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: and my dad comes from work and he's like, you know, 151 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: I know this game, I'm gonna play with my friends 152 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: and blah blah. So it was called half Life, which 153 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: is essentially what corner strike, which is one of the 154 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: largest sports today, turned into. And and and he started playing, 155 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: you know, with with her friends, with his friends for 156 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: for a few weeks. And one day he had to 157 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: go to the restroom. I was always watching him play, 158 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: and he would let me play for like two minutes 159 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: or three minutes when he went to the restroom in 160 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: those three minutes, like I did really well apparently, and 161 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: his friends he was communicating, did they have any idea? 162 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: It was you play? Yeah, okay, I thought maybe okay, 163 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: told him, hey, guys, it's my son, you know, take 164 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: it easy. Name Well, you know, he returned and and 165 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: and they say, why don't you go do the homework 166 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: of your son and your son you know that from 167 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: years ago, It's like, you know, when my kid now 168 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: he's thirteen, and my kid what he would be on 169 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: the video game. And I'm like, all right, now, you 170 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,479 Speaker 1: got to do your homework. And then as it progressed 171 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: how much money can be made in East sports, and 172 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: I see that he's pretty good at Fortnite, I'm like, 173 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: you go ahead, you go ahead and play, buddy. I mean, 174 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: it's so nice to see. You know, when I was 175 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: trying to convince my parents that it was a good idea, 176 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: it was a no go. It was just there's no 177 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: way it was going to be a vid idea for them. So, 178 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, it was really slow. Right right now, it's 179 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: very easy to in hindsight look back and say, yeah, 180 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, it was a good idea that we let 181 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: him do that it but he was really tough. You know, 182 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: you're not used to see video game competition bringing any 183 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: money to anybody. All you see is these people that 184 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: have troubles and problems or whatever, which is not the truth. Really, 185 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: it's like a mythology. And and and you know, so 186 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: I think my parents for having kind of the forward 187 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: thinking attitude and let me do you know what my 188 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: dream ended up becoming? And but today, yeah, you look 189 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: right now at the industry, and you see so much 190 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: money involved and so much opportunity not only just to 191 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: be a player, but also to create, you know, video content, 192 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: to live stream, to be anything that produce anything really 193 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: any even photographers make good money nowadays in the sports, 194 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: which wasn't the case before. Of course, for American football, 195 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: way back when when the NFL was just starting, it 196 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: was common to see players become owners. It was kind 197 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: of the next step, which is what you did. You 198 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: you were a very successful player, you became owner. G 199 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: two is e sports now passed the point where that's 200 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: a transition that happens easily. I mean, it's not happening 201 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: in football anymore. It's not any other big sports. Are 202 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: you kind of the last of the of the of 203 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: the players that kind of ease into ownership and kind 204 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: of take off in the rocketship from there? How much 205 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: did you pay to get in though? What did you 206 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: pay for ownership to get Yeah, that's a good point. 207 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: So over the curse of four years, we um more 208 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: or less raised all the cancer the exact number, but 209 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: all the way from three to six million capital, which 210 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: is not a lot for the position we're in at 211 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: the moment. We're a top team at the moment. If 212 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: you want to do if we want to replicate what 213 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: we did in the past four years today, that's gonna 214 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: cause you probably minimum. And so I recognized the lack 215 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: you know of in terms of timing. Timing is a 216 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: big it's a big topic here. Um. You know, when 217 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: I got started, things were much cheaper, things were more 218 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: a bit you know, the wild West. So you know, 219 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: if you were somebody ambitious, you could many ways get 220 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: away with poaching players and things of that nature. And 221 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: that's what we did. You know, there were no rules, 222 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: so white way, we're not right. And and yeah, so 223 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: during those four years, even though there were significant resources 224 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: invested into it, um, you know, in a lot of 225 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: a lot of ups and downs, the industry has developed 226 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: incredibly much. And now we're at a point where players can, 227 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: I don't think any longer essentially formed their team because 228 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: the barrier of entry is just so high. It's just 229 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: it's just really tough. You can't just, you know, as 230 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: a former player create something from zero. How does the 231 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: entire ecosystem change when it's institutional money that's involved. It's not, 232 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: as you said, sort of the single one off person 233 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: able to do it anymore. Oh, it's a positive development 234 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: because the access to talent becomes I mean, talent becomes 235 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: more accessible. So that means the revenue generation grows faster 236 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise. Production quality of events and 237 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: and even just in house production becomes better because people 238 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: from other industries that bring their know how an experience 239 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: essentially upgrade the quality the overall quality of the industry. 240 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: So overall is a really good thing. And what I've 241 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: come to realized during those those four years, and I 242 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: mean I've been here for now fifteen years as a 243 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: player and now team owner, is that E sports has 244 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: something really valuable. Of video games in general, has something 245 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: really valuable that unlike in traditional sports, where yeah, NFL 246 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: maybe decelerating, right, but the NFL, you know it will 247 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: be there the foreseeable future and beyond even um. When 248 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: it comes into E sports, there is beauty in the 249 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: fact that it's a very open market and right now 250 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: there are hundreds of different publishers and developers trying to 251 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: come up with the next biggest sport, and that creates 252 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: a lot of competition between them and forces them to 253 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: always be ahead of the curve, always be creative. Always 254 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: trying to update the game in a way that keeps 255 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: people engaged. It is not an easy thing to be 256 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: a publisher, even epic games. With Fortnite, there will be 257 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: a moment in time, probably not too far off in 258 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: terms of time, that they will have to come up 259 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: with a different game, or they will need to do 260 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: something to keep people engaged with Fortnite. It's like the 261 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: drug companies. Is that why you have your your G 262 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: two has eleven different teams, why you're kind of spread out. 263 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: It's not just League of Legends, it's not just Counterstrike. 264 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: You're in Fortnite. You're in a bunch of others, just 265 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: kind of deflected or protecting yourself against that moment when 266 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: you wake up and wow, no one, no one's playing anymore, 267 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: No one's playing Fortnite anymore. Yeah, first of all, I 268 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: don't think it happens from one day to another. But 269 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: other games like Black Ops four apparently will get a 270 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: lot of markets share in terms of Battle Royal Games, 271 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: which is what Fortnite is and pub is, And you 272 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: want to be ready for that moment when that happens, 273 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: or if that happens. Now. I don't think about it defensively. 274 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: I don't think about it like, oh, this game may 275 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: die one day. I think about it on the offense. 276 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: So the majority of our games, so there's four games 277 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: that are just super large and just safe bets because 278 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: you know it will be there from the future. But 279 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: there are games that are just bets that you expect 280 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: in the next twelve months the game will pop off 281 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: and will become a Tier one game, super played, super 282 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: watched and in the in a way, we approach this 283 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: as if it was a portfolio, right. We we look 284 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: at target audiences. For example, counter Strike, which is a 285 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: shooter game. It's very loved by old school sports lovers 286 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: and supporters, whereas League of Legends is a bit of 287 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: a younger demographic, whereas Fortnite is an even younger demographic. 288 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: And then you have games like Harston, which is a 289 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: card game is very strategic, not too much depending on 290 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: mechanics and reflexes at all. Therefore, uh, you know, a 291 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: target audience all the way from twenty six to thirty 292 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: eight years of age is more common to be phone 293 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: in Houston. So this is the way we approach kind 294 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: of our teams. We want to be able to top 295 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: into millennials and post millennials and even kind of older 296 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: generations in a conscious way. We're talking with Carlos Rodriguez, 297 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: the founder of G two E Sports. Now I have 298 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: a serious question, but before I get to that, I 299 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: have to bring this up. And this is something that 300 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: happened on Fortnite and I was there tonight. It happened 301 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: with my thirteen year old. Apparently it was a special 302 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: night when I guess the rocket was going up, and 303 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: everybody made a pact, so we're not gonna fight, We're 304 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: just gonna watch the rocket go up. Well, one guy 305 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: didn't follow that, and he got the record for kills 306 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: on Fortnite, and everybody's like, hey man, that wasn't that 307 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: doesn't counter that. I was just gonna ask, what do 308 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: you think about that? Yeah, that doesn't That sounds like 309 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: something I could do. I could see myself doing that. 310 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: Everybody was looking at this guy, you know, yeah, no, 311 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: that's not what I'm here for. You are you as 312 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: youngry as I am? Though? With some of these video gamemakers, 313 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: when your kid comes to you, it's like unfair. Oh, 314 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: these in game purchases. Oh man, it's so unfair. Oh, 315 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: we got to be the bad people. No, I'm not 316 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: buying you the skin. I'm sorry, what's your skin? I'm 317 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: not buying you the wrap, the weapon. There was a 318 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: dancing wanted me to pay for where I don't know what. 319 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: Here's the beauty, okay, here's the beauty. When somebody tells 320 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: you you have to spend money on this game, you 321 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: feel bad. You're like, you don't tell me what to do. 322 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: I don't just spend no money, no game, And all 323 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: of a sudden they don't tell you to spend money, 324 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: but you'll spend an average two three hundred backs a 325 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: month just to look slightly better and to have some 326 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: kind of funky thence that's so funny. What did you 327 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: see the story? What was at the times of the 328 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: journal where people are hiring Fortnite tutors? Oh? Yeah, you 329 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: know you've got good market share and that's gonna be 330 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: around for a while. When people are hiring you must 331 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: look at that a chat. I love it. And my 332 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: point with with the pharmaceutical companies is they're investing in 333 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: R and D. Like not every drug becomes a big seller. 334 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: It makes money. It's sort of some of your your 335 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: research and development going on, not every game has become 336 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: a global success, the vast majority lose money. The only 337 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: very few break even and even fear make any meaningful 338 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: amount of money. But even if you're in that position, 339 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: you're not in that position forever. Like, this is what 340 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: I like about this industry. It always keeps you under 341 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: your toes because as gamers, people that grew with games 342 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: are used to change and embrace change, unlike in traditional 343 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: sports where things don't change. I mean, I'm not against it, 344 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, I still enjoy a lot of traditional sports, 345 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: but it is true that they're not needing to change 346 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: too much, right. I mean the soccer usually what they 347 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: didnt soccer with with them and with the video things 348 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: that the line the video like, it's just so small changes. 349 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: The game doesn't change at all, and people still freak out. 350 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: For as gamers, we want that change, we embrace that change, 351 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: and as a result, publishers are held accountable to change 352 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: in a meaningful way and remain creative regardless of the 353 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: success of the game. Let's talk about valuations for a second, 354 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: and can you say how much G two is is 355 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: worth right now enterprise value? I can't, but but you know, 356 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: the way, the way we look at a multiples and 357 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: and things of this nature. Um. Looking at NFL is 358 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: a good starting point in terms of revenue multiples. Um, 359 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's not easy to identify exactly 360 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: what the value is of sports team because there are 361 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: so many variables attached to it, like how fast is 362 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: the industry growing? How likely is it that twenty years 363 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: from now G two Sports will still be a top 364 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: five organization on Earth? While I say really likely? But 365 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: but but you know it, there are so many are 366 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: that define kind of your evaluation. There are teams out 367 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: there that are you know, evaluations that I hear hundred 368 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: million dollars, two hundred million dollars. You know those are numbers. Yeah, 369 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: those are numbers that are middling NHL franchise evaluations. Um. 370 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: And when I think about the way NHL teams make money, 371 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: it's it's obvious to me. They have a pretty good 372 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: sized media contract. They sell ten thousand plus tickets a 373 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: game for their home games. You know, they sell merchandise, etcetera. 374 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: Give me a sense of where the revenue comes in 375 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: for an E sports franchise like G two because the 376 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: tickets are not you know, that's not a portion in 377 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: the same way that it is for NHL. So right now, 378 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: on average you'll find across the border for top top teams, 379 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: you'll find total revenue sponsor revenue. But all that I 380 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: sposed deals approximately will will be media rights and in 381 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: will approximately merchandise. When totally media skyrocketing, when do you 382 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: see the media surpassing, because that's what we're seeing here. Yeah, 383 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: so we do see that there is a clear trend 384 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: in media rights, broadcasting rights becoming more important for for 385 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: a P and LS as time goes by. But I 386 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: don't think it's going to be as crazy as in 387 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: traditional sports because when it comes from to merchandise, for example, 388 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: we have access to something that not traditional support has, 389 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: which is digital merchandise. You're talking about skins in fortnite. 390 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: What if there's a G two sport skin in Fortnite 391 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: and we got a cut from that, which we will 392 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: um When that happens, you're having access to a revenue 393 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: vertical that no other industry has access to, and you're 394 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: directly monetizing the fan through merchandise but in their game. 395 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: And it's infinite because new games will come in, will 396 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: become popular, people will buy those skins from you to 397 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: sport in the new game. UM So, if I could 398 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: explain to you as simply as possible where I see 399 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: the majority of the difference today in terms of why 400 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: isn't E sports at the level of reven you that 401 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: NFL is. For example, I see merchandise distribution as being 402 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: incredibly underdeveloped as at the moment in the sports, UM, 403 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: I see fun loyalty payments almost non existent. Same for ticketing. 404 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: There's just no team ventue. We are actually putting together 405 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: one of the first team venues open to the public 406 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: in Berlin actually, and then we will probably open one 407 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: in North America version and and and that's the path, right, 408 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: but we have not done anything yet. And what I 409 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: consider also a super incredibly important aspect is that why 410 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: do why there's a Patriots fan by um a jersey? Well, 411 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: there are many aspects attached to it, but it's probably 412 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: because he saw somebody from your objects. You know, we're 413 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: in theirs, right, So you feel that rivalry that fuels 414 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: the anger from its fan to represent their teams, their 415 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: favorite teams. And that's something that you can only build 416 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: through decades of right race, And we are not there 417 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: yet in the sports, because this person is not even 418 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,959 Speaker 1: that that old, right, We're talking about fifteen years seventeen 419 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: years old maybe. And so these rivalries as they develop 420 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: and you find you know, cloud nine versus G two 421 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: sports so often happening, so often happening, fans will find 422 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: kind of those uh that has a great opportunity to 423 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: represent their teams and as a result, merchandise revenue will 424 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: increase exponentially. So those are things that you guys can 425 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: learn from or or grow out from traditional sports. Flip 426 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: it for me for a second. What are things that 427 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: you look at from an NFL team that the NFL 428 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: team is doing now that you think, man, that is archaic. 429 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: We do that already so much better than insert NFL 430 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: or NBA team here. Um, let's overly simplify again, like 431 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: they it strikes me as incredible actually that NFL is 432 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: decelerating and there's still growing in revenue like it. It 433 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: strikes me as really incredible because it just shows the 434 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: ability to sell their inventory as a whole, Like every 435 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: single stakeholder has developed an innate ability to over sell 436 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: their inventory. Whereas in the sports you will see the 437 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 1: other side of the coin where you have a lot 438 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: of inventory, or you have a lot of great products, 439 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: an incredible amount of eyeballs, the perfect target audience, but 440 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: it's under monetized. So one can teach the other. You know, 441 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: in each respective area. We can learn about a lot 442 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: in the sports or harmonetize that incredible inventory that we have, 443 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: whereas sports can learn from us a lot of things 444 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: related to production, a lot of things related to remaining 445 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: original and creative and embracing change. We're talking to the 446 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: founder of G two E Sports, Carlos Rodriguez. Hate sounds 447 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: like Debbie down in here, but honestly, it just stuns me. 448 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: Your voice is perfect, like, it just stuns me. It's 449 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: just so unfortunately, is so ugly. He had to say, 450 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: you see what I gotta deal with here every week. 451 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: The gamers were hoping it was pretty good. Gamers were 452 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: hoping that E sports will be part of the Olympic Games. 453 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: But there was a survey. It was fairly recently, uh 454 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: and they asked about four sports industry professionals around forty 455 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: two countries. Is E sports and Olympics sport and the 456 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: bottom line was about said no, And I guess to 457 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: get your thoughts because it takes coordination to do the game. 458 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like you know, watching Championship bridge, 459 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, I'm gonna hold a card. You 460 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: have to do something on this controller and you have 461 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: to be coordinated to do it. I was. I had 462 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 1: the honor of speaking for the Olympic Committee a few 463 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: weeks ago on behalf of the sports, and it struck 464 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: me as really odd that I'm gonna put you an example. 465 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: They focus sometimes on, Okay, it's not really sport because 466 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: you don't do anything physically. Well, I can tell you 467 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: sports within the Olympics that don't require to move your 468 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: hands in any meaningful way or have incredible reflexes, and 469 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: then some people will focus on, well, some e sports 470 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: are violent, and not only do I find that ridiculous, 471 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: because first of all, when I killed you in a 472 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: game with the weapon, I'm just showing you that I'm faster, 473 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: more accurate, or smarter or all three all three things 474 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: at the same time, right. And by the way, we 475 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: knew that the coyote when the anvil was dropped on him, 476 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: that he was going to come back and get the 477 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 1: road runner later, so it's like we can we can 478 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: pick that up, like what you're saying it's like, you know, 479 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: it's it's real good point, fantastic so and and on 480 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: top of that, you have boxing is an actual Olympic sport, 481 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: So I mean I consider that violent and it's okay, 482 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: you know. Um So, in my mind, E sports does 483 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: not need the Olympics to uh you know, so to say, 484 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: become more commercial or mainstream. And this is a bit 485 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: odd from Olympics standpoint, which is that or from people 486 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: that kind of voted here. Um reason is because we 487 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: are the new people. If you disagree with how the 488 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: world is moving, then you're disagreeing with progress and as 489 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: a result, in the next twenty thirty years you'll find 490 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: out that your tardy audiences is appearing. I have a 491 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: feeling that the sports Olympics sport debate is something that's 492 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: going to be bandied around for for a long time now. 493 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: Carlos Rodriguez, owner of G two E Sports, thank you 494 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: for joining us. Thanks so much. You can catch G 495 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: two competing at the E s L New York event 496 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: this weekend here in New York City. Carlos, while you're here, 497 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: just take my credit card now. I'm just gonna give 498 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: it to you now. My son doesn't have to ask 499 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: me anymore. Here, just take thank you, thanks so much. 500 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: Takeaways gentlemen, Yeah, E sports, how I know. I say 501 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: it all the time. Man, It is so much money 502 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: now in this and it's going to continue to grow 503 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: and grow and grow. And my takeaway is a sophistication 504 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: with which Carlos delivered all of the business implications of 505 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: what's going on. You can picture a guy sitting in 506 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: front of young kids, sitting in front of a computer 507 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: screen and yeah, he's good and he happens to make 508 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: some money off of this sports. But no, Carlos gets it. 509 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: He understands what's going on in traditional sports, how they 510 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: can help E sports, the differences between the two. There's 511 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: a business mind behind all this. That was my takeaway 512 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: from this. I didn't know much about him before the interview, 513 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't butt against him afterwards, I'm sure. And 514 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: if you think about the way that you know these teams, 515 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: the sports teams make money versus traditional sports teams, the 516 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: media rights piece that is so big for NFL and 517 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: NBA teams isn't really as big for the sports teams, 518 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: and sponsorship takes up a bigger piece of that um 519 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: and he talked about ways in which you can incorporate 520 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: your sponsors into the game itself. But as we just 521 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: discussed earlier in this podcast, a lot of sponsors out 522 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: there don't know how to determine their are o. I. 523 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: As that space continues to change, it will be imperative 524 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: for E sports to continue to be kind of the 525 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: front line for sponsors in terms of reaching what is 526 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: a very targeted and uh and and valuable demographs. All 527 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: those bar kids right there, bar kids, your son, that's 528 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: what they know to reach your kid, my kid, Evans, nephew. 529 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: It's all the three weeks old own. Remember you said 530 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: you were just going to hand the credit card over. Yeah, 531 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: And that's how I feel that's the way it's going. 532 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: I mean, my son has said, Dad, Dad, can I 533 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: just buy? Can I download? Can I just get? I'm 534 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: standing from the line right now is no. But well, 535 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: does your son have the sports teams that he roots 536 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: for or he just does not know it, just plays 537 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: the games. He has no allegiance to any specific team. 538 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: By the way, I had to say this real quick. 539 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: You know about Fortnite, and one of the reasons why 540 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: I love Today's life about kids, boys or girls. It 541 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: doesn't make a difference. They don't care if they're playing 542 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: as the boy or they're playing as the girl. That's 543 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: something that is really yes, the avatar Yeah, and and 544 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: and that that is really cool. That is we have 545 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: come leaps and bounds, and I am so proud to 546 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: see that. Well, I would say yes. My son, by 547 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: the way, signed up for a cooking class at school, 548 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: like one of those after school things, and he came 549 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: home and he said, Dad, I'm the only boy in 550 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: the class. I said, so, does that bother you? He's like, no, 551 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: I like doing it. Here you go. Yeah, yeah, but 552 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: he was first, I'm the only boy. I'm like, so, 553 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm like cooking school. Ever, you need to learn how 554 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: to cook for yourself. So that's good. Feels better to 555 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: be a number one than number five. I'll wear a 556 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: number because of Mike. We have a chance to go 557 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: for three in a row. Kids numbers in a good time, 558 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: and let's first started wearing the number. I would just 559 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: happy and floomberg. Business of sports. The number of the 560 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: week time. Now for the number of the week, it's 561 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: an easy one guy, because we kind of know what 562 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: it is. One hundred sixty five. He does this all 563 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: the types as it's easy and I have no idea 564 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: like we do. Sometimes we talk about it a head 565 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: of characters. You get on Twitter hundred and sixties sports 566 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: related because of Carlos or no, no, this lapse in 567 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: the Indianapolis. You know what retweets on a cat video, 568 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: You're gonna sixty five lost followers. I was listening intently 569 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: and I'm going to get back to the cat video. 570 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something. The second one st Now, 571 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: first of all, um, Dana White with UFC says, no, 572 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: we are not creating a one D sixty five pound 573 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: weight class, but you wanted to talk about this maybe 574 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: in our clothing and go, yeah, that's perfect. The this 575 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: kind of stems from there's a UFC event in New 576 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: York City in a couple of weeks in early November. Um, 577 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: as you know, UFC and m m A as a 578 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: sport fought so hard to get into New York that 579 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: the first event they had at Madison Square Garden a 580 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: couple of years ago was a huge deal. Now they've 581 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: got another event on the calendar for for for November, 582 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: and because of injuries, et cetera, they don't have a 583 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: main event, and they are now scrambling to figure out 584 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: a main event. And one of the options that was 585 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: being bandied about there, including by the fighters, was creating 586 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: a one hundred and sixty five pound weight limit as 587 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: a way to get two very popular fighters to meet 588 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: kind of in the middle of their classes. Uh and fight. 589 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: As of right now, we're what we're six weeks away 590 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: from from from a big event in New York City 591 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: and UFC does not have a main event. That is 592 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: something they need to fix and they need to fix. Quotes, 593 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: how do you fix it? Ideally, you need to fix 594 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: the biggest stars are who they are and they're unavailable 595 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: to fight. How do you fix that? Yeah? I think 596 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: you need to find and the outside of this weight 597 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: class that the weight class could have fixed it. Diaz 598 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: is a is a huge star. If you can find 599 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: someone else to fight him, I think that probably Yeah, 600 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: that probably works well enough to entice people to come out. 601 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: But you know, there are people that have tickets who 602 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: are planning to go to this thing right now. Uh, 603 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: and not having a main event is obviously a is 604 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: a huge concern. Yeah, it was a great sweet Nathan day. 605 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: As he put out a tweet and said, I'm happy 606 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: to announce that I'm bringing a new weight division to 607 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: the UFC, and Dana White says knowing you're not, Yeah, 608 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: you don't know if maybe that's maybe I'm doing it. 609 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: I don't mean he may be trying to leverage his 610 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: way into doing it by thinking that if you put 611 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: it out there publicly, that maybe UFC will feel like 612 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: it has to do it. But there is a disconnect 613 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: right now between what Dana White is saying, which is 614 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: no middleweight class and and and no fight, versus what 615 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: the both the fighters are saying, which is that they're 616 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: planning to be the main event at which would be 617 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: a totally new division for UFC. We are an exciting 618 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: trio because you've been listening to the Bloomberg business of sports. 619 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: Just like that, we're done. We are here each and 620 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: every week at the same time, plus online as an 621 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: Apple podcast. You can catch that Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays. 622 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: Michael Bar on Twitter at Big Bar Sports Bar. You 623 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at NOVI Underscore Williams and 624 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: I'm Scott Sashnick. You can follow me on Twitter at Sashniko. 625 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Please tune in next week when 626 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: we speak with Bar. There's a good one. IndyCar champion 627 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: Scott Dixon. I'm sorry I was. I think I shouldn't 628 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: be rooting in the press spots. That's all right, everybody 629 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: knows you root for the motors. You're listening to Bloomberg 630 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world and 631 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: online as an Apple podcast on iTunes.