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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome in.

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Speaker 2: I'm Doug Gottlieb, and you are listening to All Ball,

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Speaker 2: and I find our next guest or our next couple

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Speaker 2: of pods to be perfect for, among other things, this

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Speaker 2: time of year, you know, one of the things that

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Speaker 2: you're hearing or you're actually seeing as I'm watching highlights

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Speaker 2: from the NBL, which of course you're going down to

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Speaker 2: Australia and parts of New Zealand, or some of these

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Speaker 2: young basketball players instead of playing college basketball or overtime

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Speaker 2: Elite or the G League ignite, they're they're taking their

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Speaker 2: talents down there and using that as a prep to

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Speaker 2: the NBA. I find it fascinating to see so many

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Speaker 2: avoiding the college experience. Now, there's a lot that goes

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Speaker 2: into the college experience. There's a lot that goes into

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Speaker 2: or why I think college athletics, college basketball in particular

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Speaker 2: is still in incredibly valuable for so many, even the

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Speaker 2: most talented athletes. And the argument that well, they're not

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Speaker 2: getting paid, that argument has been made moot. But why

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Speaker 2: not bring on a guest who's experienced the life of

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Speaker 2: late bloomer athletically, a late bloomer in basketball who went

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Speaker 2: through the college process who played some in the NBA

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Speaker 2: but really made it a name for himself playing overseas,

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Speaker 2: and what that is entirely like, what that lifestyle is like,

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Speaker 2: and what the lifestyle is like of making it to

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Speaker 2: the NBA in the juxtaposition of the two. Pat Burke

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Speaker 2: is going to be my guest the next couple podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Pat's the first ever Irish born player to play in

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Speaker 2: the NBA. Of course, he grew up mostly in the States,

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Speaker 2: and you'll get to hear his story. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: in this right It's the story of a kid late

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Speaker 2: to basketball, the story of a kid who was finally

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Speaker 2: coached the right way for his personality, for his mentality,

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Speaker 2: for his development. The story of a guy who didn't

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Speaker 2: believe him in himself many times over and then when

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Speaker 2: he did, maybe got a little bit too full of himself.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of meat on this boat. Here's part

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Speaker 2: one with former European basketball star and of course played

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Speaker 2: with the Orlando Magic and the Phoenix Suns. The graduate

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Speaker 2: of the University of Auburn at Burke. Pat, Let's let's start, okay,

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Speaker 2: So you know when you when anybody like Google searches you,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't remember he's to play, like, oh, well he's Irish,

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Speaker 2: but you actually, you know, born in Ireland, but played

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Speaker 2: played high school basketball in the States, and of course

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Speaker 2: went to school at Auburn. Give me the give me

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Speaker 2: the true picture of born raised, what your early childhood

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Speaker 2: life was like.

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Speaker 3: So my family left Ireland when I was four. We

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Speaker 3: moved to Cleveland, Ohio, and like I'd say, like any

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Speaker 3: typical Irish culture or any any immigrant family that comes in,

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Speaker 3: I think we were a little shy to go into

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Speaker 3: sports right away. And I think my I said, my

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Speaker 3: initial organized sports experience was I was sitting in our

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Speaker 3: kitchen in Cleveland and my aunt, my dad's sister, actually

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Speaker 3: brought my cousin David into the kitchen with him, and

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Speaker 3: then she just started talking about and signed them up

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Speaker 3: for ice hockey. And I can just remember like the

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Speaker 3: room went completely quiet, Like my dad like looked up

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Speaker 3: from probably his little cup of tea, like what are

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Speaker 3: you talking about? Like how are we going to get

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Speaker 3: involved in ice hockey? And so then the next focus

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Speaker 3: was my aunt Patricia asked me, She said, pat would

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Speaker 3: you like to play? And I looked up at my

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Speaker 3: parents and they said, you know, you can if you want.

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Speaker 3: And I went and started playing ice hockey for and

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Speaker 3: they started playing for about eight years.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. What you know, it's your family, you know, and

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Speaker 2: you immigrating over here. It's almost like a throwback to

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Speaker 2: the stories of like my grandparents and great grandparents. In

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Speaker 2: terms of your experience. What is that experience like of

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Speaker 2: being an immigrant family in Cleveland, Ohio? Shoot me the

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Speaker 2: picture of your childhood, because I'm my mind is going

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Speaker 2: in different places. I wonder what it's like.

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Speaker 3: So I let you say. The menu was completely Irish.

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Speaker 3: A lot of Irish stew a lot of shepherds by

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Speaker 3: we stayed, I'd say, unto ourselves, a lot of Irish family.

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Speaker 3: So family, get toghere.

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Speaker 2: It was where in Cleveland side I grew.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in really three towns from Bay Village,

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Speaker 3: Rocky River, and Avon Lake, so west side of Cleveland.

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Speaker 3: My dad got into you know, construction, landscaping. He opened

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Speaker 3: up a you know a number of different businesses at

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Speaker 3: that time. I remember anything that was going on in school,

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Speaker 3: bake sales. My mom was bringing it, not chocolate chip

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Speaker 3: cookies like all the other American kids. We had scones.

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Speaker 3: A lot of kids going you know, what the hell

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Speaker 3: are those? Yeah, just very Irish, you know. As a

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Speaker 3: kid just going back and forth to Ireland. Vacations were

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Speaker 3: not you know, going out west, not going to Hawaii,

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Speaker 3: not going to California, not going to Florida. We were

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Speaker 3: going back to Ireland pretty much every vacation. We had

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Speaker 3: to go visit family. When relatives came over, we all

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Speaker 3: got in the car, you know, met them at the

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Speaker 3: gate as soon as they got out. It was just

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Speaker 3: all the aunts and uncles and my parents. I remember

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Speaker 3: looking at my grandparents their uncles coming over and just

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Speaker 3: worrying if they brought over Irish sausages and making and

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Speaker 3: all that good stuff on their carry on. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: so a lot of it was you know, we joined

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Speaker 3: Irish heritage clubs, so a lot of the culture was

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Speaker 3: not just reinforced through getting together, but through music and

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Speaker 3: just celebrating you know, Irish heritage. Even sports, if people

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Speaker 3: don't know, a lot of Irish sports is really onto

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Speaker 3: itself as well. All the most popular sports are in

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Speaker 3: the Gaelic Athletic Association. There's the Irish football, which is

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Speaker 3: much different than American football, and then hurling and so

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Speaker 3: whenever they have the all Ireland like the it would

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Speaker 3: be like the epitome of the Super Bowl for the

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Speaker 3: United States. I remember at that time, VHS tapes would

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Speaker 3: show up, and they were different versions of VHS. So

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Speaker 3: I remember, like we go down into my uncle's basement

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Speaker 3: like a television was turned upside down with some sort

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Speaker 3: of connection to see a scrambled black and white video

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Speaker 3: of someone's scoring a goal from my dad's county or something,

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Speaker 3: and everyone's screaming. So yeah, so it was. It was

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Speaker 3: probably a lot a lot more different than most of

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Speaker 3: my friends in our neighborhood and what we experienced.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting the hockey element because when you became widely

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Speaker 2: considered the best center in Europe, right, you know, later

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Speaker 2: on in life, a lot of it was about your

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Speaker 2: moved exception. Well, and it's interesting because a lot of

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Speaker 2: the I don't want to get into this kind of

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Speaker 2: a little bit further, a lot of the reason European

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Speaker 2: bigs have kind of taken over. I think there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of different reasons, but one is, as you know,

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Speaker 2: play soccer for practice, right in terms of agility, how

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Speaker 2: much do you think the hockey helped you in terms

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Speaker 2: of your basketball and your movement for man your size.

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Speaker 3: I'd say, well, a lot of the So let's just

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Speaker 3: say there's the tactical and the technical. So the technical

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Speaker 3: side of things I played as a kid, so I

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Speaker 3: probably didn't study tapes or anything on any greats like

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Speaker 3: Wayne Gretzkiray thing. So the tactical side of things would

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Speaker 3: have been, you know, understanding, you know where to be

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Speaker 3: on defense, uh, you know, again, supporting the team, knowing

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Speaker 3: how to play even I mean the terminology wasn't help side,

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Speaker 3: but understanding, you know, kind of the the different spart

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Speaker 3: the different parts of strategy inside of the game would

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Speaker 3: have been. But again is on the on the physical side,

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Speaker 3: you know, yes I had size, but I remember the

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Speaker 3: transition into basketball, different muscle groups. You know, there was

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Speaker 3: no vertical jump there. It was just you know, flat,

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Speaker 3: just not being able to barely touch the rim at

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Speaker 3: the time and realizing that. You know, I did bring

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Speaker 3: a competitive nature and it was very physical, but again,

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Speaker 3: five fouls right away in a game is not gonna

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Speaker 3: contribute to someone staying on the floor and actually developing

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Speaker 3: into a standout player right away.

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Speaker 2: So when did you make the transition to basketball? How

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Speaker 2: old were you.

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Speaker 3: So I was around fourteen. I had a huge growth

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Speaker 3: spurt in one summer. I remember I moved from when

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Speaker 3: we were just sharing earlier. I moved from Rocky River

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Speaker 3: Davon Lake. And during that summer, I remember, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was I was just a hockey fanatic. I played spring, summer,

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Speaker 3: winter fall leagues all the time. And during that growth spurt,

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Speaker 3: I remember my mom just we went into you know,

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Speaker 3: at the time, in those communities, you'd have equipment swaps,

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Speaker 3: and so you'd find someone in the neighborhood who had

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Speaker 3: their garage and they would, you know, you bring your skates,

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Speaker 3: your helmet, your you know whatever you were not fitting anymore,

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Speaker 3: and you'd put your stuff on the table and you'd

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Speaker 3: exchange it for the next size up. And all my

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Speaker 3: stuff was at the end of the table, and so

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Speaker 3: there was no more exchange. And so then I remember

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Speaker 3: my mom was like, well, we got to figure out

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Speaker 3: something else. And initially then for that summer I found

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Speaker 3: out I grew seven inches. So I went from eighth

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Speaker 3: grade leaving at five ten and then moving into this

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Speaker 3: new town and you know, understanding the sports, of course,

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Speaker 3: it creates an opportunity for you to meet friends. My

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Speaker 3: mom wanted me to join other sports even though hockey

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Speaker 3: was not going to be on the future plans. So

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Speaker 3: I decided I wasn't going to play, and I stayed

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Speaker 3: the whole summer inside my basement just playing video games

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Speaker 3: with my brothers, and I grew at seven inch. I

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Speaker 3: went from you know, from five ten to six five

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Speaker 3: in one summer, and then she signed me up for

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Speaker 3: a mayor and football.

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Speaker 2: So what video games? That's not just the most important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah thing, right, like just block graphics. It was like

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Speaker 3: Nintendo at the time, so everything.

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Speaker 2: Natarium. I'm trying to think, because when Nintendo came out, right,

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Speaker 2: it was Super Mario Brothers, Zelda. But then you also

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Speaker 2: had like Double Dribble, Techno Bowl, RBI Baseball. But again

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Speaker 2: you know your immigrant family, you're playing hockey course, uh

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Speaker 2: with Blades of Steel was the first big hockey game,

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Speaker 2: which was amazing. It was a great game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so a lot of a lot of those

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Speaker 3: type games, you know, like at Christmas you'd get you know,

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Speaker 3: it just fitted with hockey gear, hockey theme stuff. So like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the video games, you know, again with Super Mario Brothers.

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Speaker 3: Just basically I was a kid. I didn't have an

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Speaker 3: extreme focus on one thing, so I probably played you know, Metroid,

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Speaker 3: all types of yeah, yeah, all those games. Yeah. My

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Speaker 3: brothers and I would just battle it out.

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Speaker 2: So now you're gonna playotball and you're this gangly there's

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Speaker 2: no one grows seven inches and it's completely coordinated right away,

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Speaker 2: that's right. How did football go your freshman year?

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Speaker 3: It did not go well? So I showed up two

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Speaker 3: weeks late for the conditioning, you know, new kid. So

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Speaker 3: I remember I went into the high school office signed

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Speaker 3: up for the sport, and then they gave me the

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Speaker 3: equipment the day one. So I'm putting on all this

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Speaker 3: gear I've never put on before. I'm walking across the

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Speaker 3: parking lot over to this shady oak tree where all

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Speaker 3: the guys are, you know, they're the rest period between

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Speaker 3: the two days. And this guy comes up and he's like, whoa,

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Speaker 3: you know, how tall are you? Like you're huge? And

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Speaker 3: I remember, now in eighth grade I had left I

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Speaker 3: was five ten, so I'm mentally still thought I was

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Speaker 3: five to ten. So as I come up to them,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm five ten and these guys are like, dude,

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Speaker 3: there's something wrong with this guy. You know, what the hell,

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Speaker 3: what's he talking about. So this guy comes out, He's like,

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Speaker 3: can't be five ten, I'm six two, and I'm looking

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Speaker 3: up at you, and I'm like, I don't feel any different,

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Speaker 3: you know. So it was just it was, you know,

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Speaker 3: really being closed minded about the fact that, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was still the same kid. And so then I

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Speaker 3: remember after that practice, I went home checked my height,

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Speaker 3: you know, just to found a little spot in the

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Speaker 3: in the kitchen, and measures found out that I grew

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Speaker 3: seven inches. Went up to my mom, she was in

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Speaker 3: the kitchen, probably making scones or tea or something, and

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Speaker 3: I said, Mom, I'm six five and she turned she

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Speaker 3: was just like, oh Jesus, look at you, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so then she was all on my aunts and

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Speaker 3: uncles and relatives in Ireland and just saying like, he's

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Speaker 3: six ' five. And so at that point I finished

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Speaker 3: the football season. I started the first year of you know,

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Speaker 3: my first days of school. I remember walking in and

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Speaker 3: the world had an influence on me. Then it's just like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know what, you should play basketball. Everybody kept telling me,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't go out. That freshman year had a

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Speaker 3: lot of you know, lack of confidence, like you said,

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Speaker 3: like your your motor skills are off, You're just not

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Speaker 3: feeling yourself. And then the next year I was six seven,

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Speaker 3: so then starting at starting that again. That next year,

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is impossible that you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: six seven. So then but where let's say my freshman year,

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Speaker 3: you know, let's say ten people during the day kept

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Speaker 3: telling me you should play basketball. By the time I

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Speaker 3: was six seven. The sophomore year, it was like twenty

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Speaker 3: people were telling me. So then I had the I guess,

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Speaker 3: the courage with everyone telling me I should go out.

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Speaker 3: I went and tried it out.

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Speaker 2: Now, how did you play basketball before?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Not? What is that? What is that experience? Like that

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Speaker 2: learning curve?

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Speaker 3: Like I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this, Doug.

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Speaker 3: Every time I walk into the gym and I walk in,

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Speaker 3: I talked to kids, all right, I just I'm just

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Speaker 3: about to walk into a camp, I get the same feeling.

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Speaker 3: I look out at the floor, and that first day

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Speaker 3: ever looking out, I remember I was watching, you know,

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Speaker 3: kids that have been practicing all their lives. So you'm

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Speaker 3: watching all this between you know, the legs, dribbling behind

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Speaker 3: the back, shooting threes with good form, and I still

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Speaker 3: see it today, and I remember being the kid in

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Speaker 3: the doorway going what am I doing? Like I don't

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Speaker 3: know how to do any of this stuff? And so

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Speaker 3: I went out there. I just you know, I was

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Speaker 3: shooting two handed. There was no development of anything. You know,

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Speaker 3: I understood, of course, put the ball in the metal cylinder,

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Speaker 3: but everything was outside of that. I was just so

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Speaker 3: far beyond any understanding of how to play the game

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Speaker 3: with the skill.

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Speaker 2: So how did you how did you pick it up?

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Speaker 2: Like what was what was the process by which you

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Speaker 2: went to go from there to being a Division one

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Speaker 2: stoship athlete.

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Speaker 3: So my first I always tell people I had two coaches,

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Speaker 3: and I think the Good Lord put them in a

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Speaker 3: certain order for me. My first coach that sophomore year

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Speaker 3: JV basketball, he you know I made the team. It

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Speaker 3: was like every day he told me, you know who

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Speaker 3: I wasn't who I was never going to be, just autocratic,

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Speaker 3: just you know, righteously telling me, you know you did

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Speaker 3: this wrong, you're doing this. And before before long I

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Speaker 3: was didn't even know, but behind my back, I just

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Speaker 3: the joke of the team. And even on the first

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Speaker 3: before the very first game, he went around he was

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Speaker 3: telling everybody their roles. He's like, you know, hey, you know, Fred,

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Speaker 3: You're you're a point guard. You're going to control the

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Speaker 3: tempo of the game. You're gonna be our communicator. You're

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Speaker 3: gonna echo everything that I need to say to the guys.

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Speaker 3: And they go down the line. You're you know, you're

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Speaker 3: a three point shooter. You're gonna be the sniper of

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Speaker 3: the team. And he's still on the power forward and

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Speaker 3: I was sitting there nervously at the end of this conversation.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, what's he going to say to me? And

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Speaker 3: by the time he got to me, my hands are

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Speaker 3: sitting there sweating, and he just stops and he's pouring

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Speaker 3: at me and he says, uh, Pat, I never want

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Speaker 3: to see you dribble the ball. And at that point,

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Speaker 3: you know, I always tell kids that, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: the biggest fear kids have is not fitting in. And

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Speaker 3: I remember at that point I wasn't looking good, feeling good,

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Speaker 3: or feeling safe, and I was done. I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm done with basketball. And the saving grace that I

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00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,960
Speaker 3: didn't have to quit is I got I got home

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Speaker 3: shortly after that couple of weeks, and I remember my

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Speaker 3: dad was coming in from a cold Cleveland winner and

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Speaker 3: we're at the kid We're at the enter table. I'm

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Speaker 3: the youngest of six, so myself, my next older brother, Nile,

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Speaker 3: We're sitting at our kitchen table. My dad said to

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Speaker 3: my mom, Nile myself, he said, would you guys consider

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Speaker 3: moving to Florida? And I was like, I will pack

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Speaker 3: my bags right now, like I'm so done. I just

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Speaker 3: don't want to be in this situation anymore. And so

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Speaker 3: we moved shortly after that. Halfway through that JV basketball season,

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Speaker 3: moved down to Cape portl Florida. I walked into school

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Speaker 3: thinking basketball was so far removed, never had to go

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Speaker 3: through that embarrassment again. As soon as I walked in

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Speaker 3: the door at six seven, I think the first kid

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Speaker 3: that saw me was like, whoa, I'll tell you and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm six seven. And he just ran down

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Speaker 3: the hall and he was like, we're gonna win the

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Speaker 3: state championship and I was like, no, don't know. And

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Speaker 3: it just spread, It spread like wildfire, like every class

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Speaker 3: people thought I was being humble. They're like, you know,

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Speaker 3: how you know, can you dunk? And I was like no,

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Speaker 3: I can't. And they're like he's lying, he's lying, he's amazing,

325
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Speaker 3: and I'm like, no, guys, I I don't even play,

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Speaker 3: and nobody would take my word for it. And so

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Speaker 3: then at the end of the day, I'm walking down

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Speaker 3: the hall like ready to go home, like this is

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Speaker 3: the worst situation I could have ever imagined with the reset,

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Speaker 3: and this gentleman taps my shoulder and I turn and

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Speaker 3: he says, hey, are you the new guy? And I said, yes, sir,

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Speaker 3: i am. And he said, hey, you want to go

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Speaker 3: down to the gym and shoot some hoops? And I

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00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 3: mean his voice came out of me like I'm not

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Speaker 3: a basketball player, and he said, well, I didn't say

336
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 3: you were. I just wanted to get to know you.

337
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 3: You want to go shoot some hoops with me, I'm

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Speaker 3: coach Marty Waters and I'm like, okay, I know this routine.

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Speaker 3: I'll go down there, I'll start shooting. You'll realize out

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Speaker 3: of the gym and he's like, hey, Pat, you ever

341
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Speaker 3: shut over here on the elbow and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I've shot there. So he's like, let's take some shots.

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Speaker 3: So I start shooting brick airball, brick and he's rebounding.

344
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Speaker 3: I mean, he's just running around getting these rebounds. And

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Speaker 3: he comes up to me and he's like, hey, you

346
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 3: have a nice soft touch. And I'm like, is there

347
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,360
Speaker 3: something wrong with this guy? Like what are you talking about?

348
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 3: I just bricked every shot. And so he told me

349
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Speaker 3: that the varsity coach from that school he was unlike

350
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 3: high school, had contacted him that I was coming down,

351
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 3: that I was a project player, and he told him

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00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 3: that I had played eight years of ice hockey. So

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Speaker 3: I was pleasantly surprised that, you know, someone had actually

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Speaker 3: taken that initiative to call. And so Coach Water said

355
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Speaker 3: to me, he said, hey, what if I can set

356
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Speaker 3: this up where everyone understand that you know you've played

357
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Speaker 3: ice hockey and that you're out here to do your best,

358
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Speaker 3: and I promise you that there won't be any expectations.

359
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Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, I'm going to go for it.

360
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,400
Speaker 3: So he brings in the team, you know, the next

361
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Speaker 3: day or I come to one of the practices and

362
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Speaker 3: he's like, hey, guys, this is Pat you just moved

363
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Speaker 3: down here. He's six ' seven, he played eight years

364
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Speaker 3: of ice hockey, and I guarantee if we were on

365
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 3: ice right now, he probably slammed you all onto a wall.

366
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Speaker 3: You'd never be able to stand up. He would skate

367
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 3: circles around you, he said, but he's transitioning over to basketball,

368
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Speaker 3: and I think if we help him, he'll help us.

369
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Speaker 3: And it was like one of the coolest moments because

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Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, I wish I had that every

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Speaker 3: time I walked into something new. And so then as

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Speaker 3: that season started going, you know, I didn't play that

373
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Speaker 3: much that scene that transitioned into that sophomore second half.

374
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Speaker 3: But then by the spring and summer, and I was

375
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Speaker 3: around my house and I just remember the phone rang

376
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 3: and my mom would come to me and like, Pas, Pat,

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00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 3: there's someone named Michael on the phone. I'm like, Mom,

378
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 3: I don't know Michael, and she'd be like, well, someone's

379
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 3: on the phone, So I go pick it up. He's like, Pat, Hey,

380
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 3: it's Mike. You know. Coach told me to come pick

381
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,360
Speaker 3: you up. We're gonna go play over here at Fort

382
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Speaker 3: Myers Beach. I'm like okay, So they picked me up.

383
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 3: As soon as I get home, somebody else would call

384
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,640
Speaker 3: me and they'd be like, hey, you know, hey, this

385
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 3: is John. Coach told me to pick you up, about

386
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 3: to go shooting the driveway, and slowly I started to

387
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 3: you know, get an understanding. I was going kinesthetically through

388
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 3: the motions. But then Coach Water kept asking me these

389
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 3: thought provoking questions. And even my dad, you know, I

390
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 3: didn't have this sense of like asking these type of

391
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 3: questions in this leadership space. So he kept asking me, like,

392
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 3: what would you like to do in life? And I'm like,

393
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 3: you know, my my my life is pretty destined to

394
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 3: you know, be a landscape like my dad. I don't

395
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 3: think I'm going to be playing basketball. And he said, well,

396
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 3: I think you know that you're still growing, and I

397
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,360
Speaker 3: think that maybe there's an opportunity, you know, even even

398
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 3: a small college could come look at you. And I

399
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 3: was like, this guy, whatever sods about my senior year.

400
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 3: I'm you know, I'm six ' eleven and he's you know,

401
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 3: has changed everything in me. I have the confidence where

402
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 3: I'm out in the driveway and I'm practicing all the time.

403
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 3: You know, I'm at night, I'm taking my mom's lamps

404
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 3: out in the driveway and I'm turning them on. Neighbors

405
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 3: are walking by, They're seeing me working on post moves,

406
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 3: and they're probably thinking they're going this guy what's what's

407
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 3: he thinking? He's not going anywhere? And then you know,

408
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 3: college has started to come in and talk to me.

409
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

410
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 1: a nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio

411
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to

412
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: listen live.

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Speaker 2: How good was your team your senior year.

414
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Speaker 3: I think we had a lot of potential, uh, the chemistry.

415
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 3: You know, this was marin or high school back in

416
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: you know that that would have been the ninety one

417
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 3: ninety two year, so a lot of a lot of

418
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 3: kids were moving in, uh at that time, so it

419
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 3: wouldn't be unfamiliar to see like new kids moving in

420
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 3: every week. So I think that we had put together,

421
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 3: you know, a fairly good looking team on a poster,

422
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 3: and I think it was like six eleven, like six

423
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,239
Speaker 3: eight sixty six sixty six. You know, there's just a

424
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 3: lot of real good height. But we never really got

425
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 3: to that level. I think that we were I think

426
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 3: we were you know, too young at the time to realize,

427
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 3: you know, what we what we could have been doing.

428
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 3: But coach Waters did a great job, of course, of

429
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 3: you know, setting up a great schedule for us. We

430
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 3: went out and we played in a bunch of tournaments.

431
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 3: But I think it was all based on the fact

432
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 3: that you know, I hadn't I hadn't developed, or I

433
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 3: hadn't reached my full potential, you know. So a lot

434
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 3: of times I would have these like freakish stats where

435
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 3: you know, you'd have like eleven blocks one game, and

436
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 3: then one game you'd have like five rebounds, and you'd

437
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 3: have like, you know, eighteen rebounds. So the consistency wasn't there.

438
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: You know, at that time, I probably wasn't setting any

439
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 3: goals as far as like how the team would actually

440
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 3: become better. I was only working just on how do

441
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 3: I become better? You know, technically.

442
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,719
Speaker 2: Okay, so then take me through the recruiting proces. By

443
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 2: the way, is what was your coach's name, Coach Marty Waters.

444
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 2: Is he still alive? He is, She's still coaching.

445
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 3: He's not coaching though.

446
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: That's pretty amazing though. The understanding, the emotional intelligence it

447
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 2: takes to understand what a kid has, what a kid needs,

448
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: and how to support him, Like that's really remarkable because

449
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 2: your first coach, you know, in Cleveland, like that's how

450
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 2: a lot of that generation coach, right is break them down,

451
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 2: build them back up, and just some kids you can't

452
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: because internally they've already broken themselves back down.

453
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,959
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I totally agree. I think that, you know,

454
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: looking back now my hindsight and seeing it is there's

455
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 3: this theory that a gentleman came up with, like in

456
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 3: the sixties, is called transformative learning theory, and it's one

457
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: of the most disruptive ways to actually get people to learn.

458
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 3: And most of it is done through not addition and

459
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: that old school way that I've recognized that you know,

460
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 3: a large portion of people are still doing this. They're

461
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 3: coaching but telling people what to do. You know, you'll

462
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: see a coach on the sideline telling a kid, I

463
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 3: told you a thousand times, you got a box out,

464
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,719
Speaker 3: and you're going, yeah, you're not even hearing yourself. You're

465
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: saying you told them a thousand times, But you didn't

466
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: realize after two or three that what you're doing isn't

467
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 3: working as far as an impact. To create transformative learning,

468
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 3: you know, to actually speak or work with someone to

469
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 3: actually have them turn into something else. So Marty Waters

470
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 3: was doing was he was actually having me subtract bad

471
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: habits and so that's really what the you know, transformative

472
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 3: theory works on a lot of like let's go back

473
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 3: to when you first thought something, and then let's figure out,

474
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 3: you know, the most effective way to do it and

475
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: and doing so. Like after I left, I kept going

476
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: it was something about the way Coach Waters would communicate,

477
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 3: and I kept thinking about it, and then you know, here,

478
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: now I'm almost fifty years old, I actually studied all

479
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 3: of that ways he was doing. And that's how I

480
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: work with with youth and individuals, whether it's in business

481
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 3: or in basketball, is actually going through those same you know,

482
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: let's say, methods of actually working with others finding out

483
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: their truth, not the one that I'm seeing from you know,

484
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 3: from from this person point of view perspective. I'm actually

485
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: you know, figuring out how do we share a grounded reality.

486
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 2: Okay, your recruitment to Auburn, how that? How'd that go down?

487
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 3: So, uh, you know, pretty much late in the game,

488
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: moved down to Florida. As you know, now today's world,

489
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 3: I mean, they'll find a kid when he's twelve, you know,

490
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: like in a remote country of the world. So nobody

491
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 3: knew that there was this six ' eleven guy in

492
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 3: Cape Coral. So coach Marty Waters came up. I think

493
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 3: the one practice I broke a backboard and he came

494
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: on a dunk, not a shot. So he came up

495
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: to me and he said, Hey, I'm gonna send this

496
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: out to I don't even know I can't remember who

497
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: the coach is at the time, and he was like, Hey,

498
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: I'm gonna send this out to this coach. I think

499
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: that you know that they should come look at you.

500
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 3: And I was like okay. And you know, he was

501
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 3: taking care of all of the handling of communication. So

502
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 3: then small colleges started to send letters and so I

503
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 3: started getting recruited by Winthrop, went also to Stetson, went

504
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 3: to Ucor, I got UCF with Joe Dean. Tommy Joe

505
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 3: Eagles was at Auburn at the time and his coach,

506
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: coach Haddocks, was the one that was actually you know,

507
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: showing up on campus to take a look set the

508
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,719
Speaker 3: loyal and marimunt out in California was also communicating with

509
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: me at the time.

510
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: That was back when LMU was was was was run

511
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 2: up and down and win the games.

512
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so why Auburn? Uh, Tommy Joe Eagles, he when

513
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 3: he came in his presence was one that I knew.

514
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, there's something about him.

515
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: I really trusted everything that he was saying. He could

516
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: see that I was a project. He was probably the

517
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: main reason when I visited the university, I was like,

518
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 3: this is beautiful. It was probably the most quiet of

519
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 3: all my visits. Most of them they were all trying

520
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: to like take me out. American University was another one,

521
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 3: so a lot of them were just taking me out,

522
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 3: you know, showing me kind of the social scene. When

523
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 3: I got to Auburn, it was like I went out

524
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 3: with the guy who was graduating, christ brandt Uh and Chris.

525
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 3: You know, he basically just showed me around and went

526
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: to a restaurant, We went to a pet shop to

527
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: grab some food for his fish. After after going through

528
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: all of it, I was like, I think this is

529
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 3: the one, you know. But then there was one more thing,

530
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 3: Doug that you know, it really nipped me in the ass.

531
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 3: Was the starting center was Chris going out at the time,

532
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: and the next guy in line, I think it was

533
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 3: a guy named Aaron Swinson who was six ' four

534
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 3: and so my belief was, Hey, I'm six to eleven,

535
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: I'm coming in here, I'm going to start what.

536
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: About your parents, Like they hadn't experienced any of this,

537
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: none of it? What was what was there? What was

538
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 2: their influence like on your decision?

539
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 3: So going back to we were sharing kind about the

540
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: leadership side of the things, is I think the benefit

541
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 3: of my dad not knowing anything was there was no

542
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: tampering in any of Coach waters beliefs or his techniques.

543
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 3: So he basically was like, hey, Coach Waters, here's my son.

544
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 3: Please do your best to help them with this. And

545
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 3: so my dad never got involved in you know, like

546
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 3: trying to shoot the drive with me or putting me

547
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: through ball handling stuff. He just didn't know. You know, again,

548
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 3: is growing up irish? You know, like there was a

549
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 3: lot of things that were the you know, initially whenever

550
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 3: we did something it was the first time doing it.

551
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: So me going through basketball, I think that he knew

552
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: his place was like, Hey, I'm going to support my

553
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: son and I'm not going to sit here and give

554
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: him some sort of advice that you know doesn't translate.

555
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: But again, and I don't want to be presumptuous because

556
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: I don't know your family dynamic. My guess would be

557
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: irish immigrant family that it was a some sort of

558
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: push of hey, if you're going to do it, you're

559
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: going to do it right, right, You're going to do

560
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: like there's a I mean, I think one of the

561
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: things that has changed, and it's it's it's I think

562
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: most of it is actually our generation because we're the

563
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: parents now, right, is the questioning of teachers, the questioning

564
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: of coaches, the questioning of leadership. Yeah, in your upbringing,

565
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: was there any what was what was your you know, like, look,

566
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: my dad wasn't he was grandson of immigrants. But it's

567
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: like people ask like why did you get good grades

568
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: in high school? Well? I didn't have any other choice,

569
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: you know, why did you work hard beasketball? I didn't

570
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: have any other choice? What was what was even though

571
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: he wasn't involved in the day to day what was

572
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: this influence? Like academically and in terms of your work ethic, So.

573
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: Academically it would have been you know, the great reports

574
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: coming home. You know, he'd sit down with you and

575
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: just you know, communicate like you know what's going on here?

576
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: You know, And again it was it wouldn't be more

577
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: of a question. It would be like you can do better,

578
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: and you'd feel you'd feel an understanding of if there

579
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: was disappointment, you know, that would be something that would

580
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 3: burn inside of you and you'd know, you know, you'd

581
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: made some choices that you know got in the way

582
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 3: of you know, studying for tests or doing assignments. As

583
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: far as the work ethic in games, I I think,

584
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: you know, just seeing my dad work as hard as

585
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 3: he could, you know, to make ends meet. You know,

586
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: I'm the youngest of six, so I saw the older

587
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: three going off to college, my mom and dad making

588
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 3: ends meet that I don't think I ever was coached

589
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: in energy or effort. It just you know, I went

590
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: as hard as like even when I played pro. I

591
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: just I never would have thought once to like drop

592
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: at a level. And I think that comes from again,

593
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 3: is like when you're when you're growing up, and it's

594
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: just what you see. You never see anybody taking a

595
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 3: day off. You just you're always going as hard as

596
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: you can. And I think that that's one of the

597
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: things that even when my dad, mom and dad saw

598
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: me in games. I don't remember my mom and dad

599
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: ever after a game going oh you really had good energy,

600
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 3: you know, it would because it wasn't ever put in there.

601
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: It was just like, you know, you did you did

602
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 3: well with this, and what did your coach say about this?

603
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 3: So a lot of a lot of going back to,

604
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: you know, kind of at the abstract of today's world

605
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: with parents, you know, saying and giving their opinion. My

606
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: parents would have been like, well, what did coach Waters

607
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: say about this? Or what does he think about that?

608
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: And as soon as he would I would share what

609
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 3: it was, it would be like, that's what you're going

610
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 3: to do, you know. And so I think that my

611
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 3: parents really partnered with my coach, you know, and anybody

612
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: who was involved as far as you know, just creating

613
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: a larger sense of team and kind of a uniform

614
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: thought process be like okay, let's do that, you know.

615
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 3: So I think that, you know, after games and stuff,

616
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: my mom and dad would go up to coach Waters

617
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 3: and shake his hand and just there was a lot

618
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: of understanding that this was not happening because you know,

619
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: a rock hit me in the head and all of

620
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 3: a sudden, you know, I understood how to do a

621
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: drop step. You know. It was like they knew that

622
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: he was investing a lot of time and now that

623
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: all these coaches and colleges were coming in that he

624
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: was the influence that was making it happen.

625
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: So you go to Auburn, What do you remember about

626
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: showing up on campus?

627
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 3: So I'm sitting there my mom and dad we drive

628
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: the nine hours up there. I have a trunk that

629
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: has two pair of jeans, a couple of T shirts.

630
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: My dad hands me two hundred dollars and he says,

631
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: make this work, and I'm like, wow, this is a

632
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: lot of money. I fixed my room up all of

633
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes, and then I remember there's a knock at

634
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 3: my door and Aaron Swinson, the six ' four second

635
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: coming of Charles Barkley, says, hey, you're the new guy Pat.

636
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,239
Speaker 3: I'm like yeah, yeah. So I meet him. I'm like, hey,

637
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: nice to meet you. He's like, hey, we're gonna go

638
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: play some pickup down at the gym, and I said okay.

639
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: So I'm sitting there and I'm getting nervous because no

640
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: one's seen me play. I've never seen them play. And

641
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 3: in one pickup game, Aaron Swinson dunks on me about

642
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 3: fifteen times and I have.

643
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: No I have no You're like, what am I doing here?

644
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 3: Yeah? I'm like, what am I doing and immediately it

645
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: just starts crushing me. And then we then most of

646
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: the guys show up and they start playing up ball,

647
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 3: and I can't. I can't hold my own I can't

648
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: even stop any of the guys. You know, I'm about

649
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 3: I'm six ' eleven and I'm just probably it's a

650
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: little over two hundred pounds, so I'm like, I'm a

651
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 3: skeleton and they're just taking advantage of me. And then

652
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 3: before long, I'm not even getting picked up in the games.

653
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: So I remember, you know, I'd sit there and I'd

654
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: try to voice saying I got downs, and they wouldn't

655
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: even listen to me. They would actually play five on

656
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 3: five and they go, let's just run it back, and

657
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 3: so that after a while, I just went into the

658
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: locker room and I just started watching television, you know,

659
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 3: every day in preseason. And then one of the coaches

660
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: came in was like, you know, what are you doing.

661
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: Why aren't you out there playing? And I was like,

662
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: I've been out there for you know, a week and

663
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 3: a half. They won't let me on the court, and

664
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: so then they just kept telling me like you got

665
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: to go out there, and it just it wasn't happening.

666
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: So my first month at Notre Dame, do you wear

667
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: a Keith tower?

668
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, he lives down here in Orlando.

669
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: Okay, So Heith had graduated, but he and Lafonso Ellis,

670
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: a couple other guys came back and Keith was Keith's

671
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: whole thing was like he it was his pickup game.

672
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: So he's like, little guy, you ain't got no credit

673
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: algy you can't get on this court. So a Notre

674
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 2: Dame and I think it's where their practice facilities now

675
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: is have what's called the pit, and the pit is

676
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: you know the Joyce Center now I figure what it's

677
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: called now, but they have several auxiliary gyms and the

678
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: main auxiliary gym is down kind of below in the

679
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: battels of the arena and it's a nice setup and

680
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: that's where we play pickup ball. And so Keith kind

681
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: of ran the pit even though he'd already kind of graduated.

682
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 2: And it was the same thing like I couldn't get

683
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: on the court. Now. It wasn't that I was bad,

684
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: it was that I was a freshman and I was,

685
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure, kind of cocky and I was told like

686
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: I was, I was brought in to be the starting

687
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: point guard, and at some point, like I couldn't get

688
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: on the court, so I did the opposite of what

689
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: you did. I stood at the free throw line and

690
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 2: just wouldn't move, And these fucking guys start playing without me,

691
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: and I'm like, dude, I came here to play, so

692
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to play. And Keith, you know, Keith would

693
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: just have him keep playing for a while. Finally, like

694
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: Freddy McCaffrey came down, he's like, wells, we gotta get

695
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: Ayboddy in here. You know. It's like and I think

696
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: they probably pulled Keith aside, like, look, dude, I get it.

697
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 2: You know you're the older guy, You're the NBA player

698
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,959
Speaker 2: at this time, like you gotta let the guys play.

699
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 2: But I completely know the know, the feeling of not

700
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: feeling like you're fitting in belonging. Yeah, and it's really

701
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: all right. Then it gets worse because then I'm sure

702
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: when you started practice, you're like, holy crap, I've even

703
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: more lost.

704
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So then we start practice. We started doing drills,

705
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 3: and Tommy Joe Eagles before practices, he'd you know, we'd

706
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: warm up, stretch at half court. We'd have a big

707
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 3: circle and he'd walk around, he'd visit with everybody, and

708
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 3: he come up to me and be like, hey, Biggin,

709
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 3: you're a right biggin. And I'm just like sitting there like,

710
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I'm good, and he's like you sure, you know,

711
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 3: cause he's getting all the report. But I couldn't see

712
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: that big macro plan. I was like sitting there just

713
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: in the micro going I don't see it. And every

714
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 3: time I talk to my mom or dad, I'm like,

715
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm supposed to be here. My dad

716
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 3: just like stop, just stop, you know, And I'm like,

717
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: you don't understand, like they're not letting me play. I'm

718
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 3: in hearing when I'm going into practice, I don't understand,

719
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: like why I can't keep up with everybody, And just

720
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 3: you know, I never even took a snapshot of these

721
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: guys and said, you know, what was their experience, Like

722
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 3: what did they do in the year before in the

723
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: weight room? What do they do as far as like

724
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 3: you know, getting faster lateral quickness. To me, it was

725
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 3: just like this is never going to actually improve because

726
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 3: I had never stepped into any other way of being

727
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 3: more effective. So it was like someone was like coach, coach,

728
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 3: Eagles was like telling me, hey, look, there's a bunch

729
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 3: of different approaches that you haven't even taken yet. With

730
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: your nutrition and strength training and all of this. You

731
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: know you're coming in here, you know, like a skeleton.

732
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: But you know, within that first year, I think I

733
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: left there my freshman year with like twenty five pounds

734
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 3: of muscle.

735
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: How much did you play?

736
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: I didn't a red shirt. I read shirted that first year.

737
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 3: My roommate, Lance Weims was mister Alabama for basketball, mister

738
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: Alabama for football, mister Alabama for baseball. He was like

739
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 3: everyone's all American. So he played that year and so

740
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 3: I just I just you know, I went out, I

741
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 3: suited up, and I you know, went through the layup

742
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 3: lines with the guys warming up, and I just saw

743
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 3: this tough year of just Auburn basketball, Like, let's let's

744
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 3: see what Auburn basketball is in the SEC and all

745
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 3: these non conference games, Let's see what the country thinks.

746
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 3: And that's when I started to really put it together.

747
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, this is a football school.

748
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: It was. It was a football school. By the way,

749
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 2: your roommate who was mister basketball and everything, did he

750
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: play professionally in any of the sports.

751
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 3: He didn't. You know, he at the end of his

752
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 3: senior year, so he graduated a year before me. He

753
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: had an offer to play in England, and the year

754
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: before he had gotten married, and he, you know, was

755
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 3: sitting there going, do I put you know, four or

756
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 3: five years into this and then lose where I could

757
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 3: be in the professional setting if I go get a job.

758
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: And so you know, I think he just became very

759
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 3: conservative there at the end and he said, no, I'm

760
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 3: gonna I'm just going to start work.

761
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: Do you things come to mind with that one. It's

762
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 2: that you talk about different guys running their own race,

763
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 2: right like he was. He was on a completely different

764
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: path coming out of high school, right, and you become

765
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 2: the top center in Europe. That's that's amazing. But the

766
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: other part too, it is and like this this is

767
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: at lant that I'm glad that he got. He understood

768
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 2: and I know you understand, is like we have completely

769
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: devalued the relationship you can build with your university to

770
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: use it to get that first and all your jobs.

771
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: And you know it's I do think our generation, a

772
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: good portion of us get it. But for whatever reason,

773
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 2: you know, college has just become about how much can

774
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: I get how quickly can I get it, and not

775
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: realizing the ramifications of the next fifty years of your life.

776
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: You know. It's like, that's why I went to Notre Dame.

777
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: Was I went to Notre Dame because if it didn't

778
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: work out, domers take care of domers. And what I

779
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: found is Oklahoma State people are unbelievably loyal when you're

780
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: loyal to them. But now we have these guys, these

781
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 2: transient guys, and they play at three or four schools.

782
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: We're like, hey, when it's over, what are you going

783
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: to call it a job? You know? Anyway, So the

784
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: red shirt year it hit. And there's another part is

785
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: like red shirt ear is like a bad word to

786
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: kids now, Like sometimes you need a year to develop,

787
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: to figure it out, to grow, to understand what you're

788
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: doing every day, to feel comfortable. But you know this

789
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: is twenty five years ago. So the set your sophomore year,

790
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: your second year, your red shirt freshman year. What was

791
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: that season like?

792
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: So just before that, I end that year. I remember

793
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 3: we go home for spring break. I come back and

794
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,439
Speaker 3: my roommate Lands says, hey, let's go to the gym

795
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: and shoot this is my freshman year. After the season's

796
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 3: all over, and I said, okay, so I was feeling good.

797
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, let me see that ball real quick.

798
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: And I get the ball. I take like one dribble

799
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 3: and I go up and I just slammed the crap

800
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 3: out of it. And he looks at me and he's like,

801
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 3: holy shit. And I was like, dude, I feel really good.

802
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 3: And next thing you know, I'm just wind milling it

803
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 3: and doing anything. I'm like, what just happened? And I

804
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: hadn't realized that, you know, everything I had been doing

805
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: in the weight room and nutrition wise was paying off.

806
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 3: I mean the nutrition side of it. It was like you're

807
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: coming out of class and you have a three pm scheduled,

808
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 3: go eat four peanut butter sandwiches at the weight room.

809
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 3: So then coming back. I leave that summer and my

810
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: dad was still a subscription member to an Irish newspaper

811
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 3: called The Echo. And at the back end of the

812
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 3: Echo he sees this advertisement. It says, all Irish basketball

813
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 3: players call here or something. So he makes the call

814
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 3: and I get on to this Irish World University team's

815
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 3: or the World University Games team. And when I get there,

816
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: It's the funniest thing is I get to reinvent myself.

817
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 3: Like none of the guys from Auburn are there, so

818
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: when I get there, all the Irish guys are like, oh,

819
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: you're amazing, this is great, and we have a lot

820
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 3: of Irish Irish Americans as well. And I just started

821
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 3: playing more dominant with that team. And then when I

822
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 3: come back then that year that you're sharing the sophomore

823
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 3: or my freshman year. The second year, I remember going

824
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 3: through the preseason and everybody, Wesley Person, Aaron Swintson, all

825
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 3: these guys are coming. You're like, dude, you are not

826
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 3: even the same person. And it was just that one

827
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,439
Speaker 3: moment to get away to realize like at that time,

828
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 3: I you know, we played the USA team and practices,

829
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 3: we played all these other teams and I was getting,

830
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 3: you know, some attention, and it was like wow. You know,

831
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 3: sometimes you go under a little hypnosis thinking the environment

832
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: is telling you who you are, but it's like that's bullshit.

833
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 3: It's like you don't have to listen to what the

834
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: environment says. You can actually create that and be in

835
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 3: another environment then come back and all of a sudden,

836
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 3: you know, it's a paradigm shift. So I get I

837
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 3: get more obviously, I get to play. I'm not starting.

838
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 3: I'm not like in some position where you know, Tommy

839
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 3: Joe is using me amazingly, because at that time most

840
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 3: people don't even know this time of telling me Joe Eagles,

841
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 3: he had Wesley Person was the leading score of the SEC,

842
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 3: Aaron Swinson was a second leading scorer, second rebounder, and

843
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 3: Aubrey Wiley was the leading rebounder. And we probably lost

844
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 3: in conference games on like an average of like two points.

845
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 3: So going into the RUP or going to Tennessee, you know,

846
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: playing Jael Mashburn and playing uh, the guys in Tennessee.

847
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 3: We got to Alan Houston, we got to a point

848
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 3: where we're going to every game to the end and

849
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: we're just losing by a small margin. And then of

850
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 3: course at the end of that year, Tommy Joe Eagles

851
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 3: got fired, and uh, you know, that year was another

852
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: one of those opportunities where you learn so much. All

853
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 3: the guys that I looked up to were graduating, Aaron,

854
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 3: Wesley and Aubrey and they had they had taught us

855
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: all like how to work, you know, as hard as

856
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 3: you can and become you know the leaders in the

857
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 3: conference in those categories.

858
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: Okay, your coach gets fired right now, everybody leaves. What

859
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: was it like for you? Then?

860
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 3: Uh So then the athletic the athletic director comes up

861
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 3: with David. David Howsley is a Hall and he's like, Pat,

862
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: We're we're very interested in hearing your opinion on who

863
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: we should be looking for and this, that and the other,

864
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: and like, we're looking for a Southern gentleman, Like a

865
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 3: southern gentleman. Why don't we just find somebody who wants

866
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: to win and is effective at winning. But anyways, they

867
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 3: had their parameters, and so then we get the call

868
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: that coach Cliff Ellis is our coach. She's coming out

869
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 3: from Clemson. And uh, the year before that, that redshirt year,

870
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: we actually played Cliff uh in the n I T

871
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: in Clemson when they had Searon Wright Chris Whitney. And

872
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 3: so when we play we played them, you know, you

873
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 3: got to see kind of the atmosphere he's about. And

874
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 3: then looking looking back at when they were telling us

875
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 3: Cliff was coming in, we started to look at all

876
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 3: of the big centers in the NBA that he had,

877
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 3: Horace Grant, Uh, you know, Dale Ellis and and all

878
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 3: these guys, and I started sinking, Wow, this guy's really

879
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 3: going to develop bigs. And so he came in and

880
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 3: uh he was. He was all about winning. So immediately

881
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 3: he was like, we had a team meeting and he

882
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: just said, look, we are Whatever happened in the past

883
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 3: is the past. This is a new you know, this

884
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 3: is a new movement forward. It's a new group, It's

885
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: gonna be a new environment. And it was how is

886
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 3: it different? Uh, the practices I think became more demanding,

887
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 3: you know, really questioning people about understanding the tactics of

888
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 3: the of the game. You know, I think that it

889
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: wasn't just going through the motions. And coach Ellis was

890
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: extremely hard on us until we learned everything. You know.

891
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 3: He put in a faster paced, full course press. We

892
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 3: went into a one to two on one. I was

893
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: the top of it. So I was starting and you know,

894
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: my whole goal in the beginning of that was just

895
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: to put as much pressure as I could on the ball.

896
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 3: He gave me, you know, the nod to play and

897
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,959
Speaker 3: I was like extremely excited and want to do my best.

898
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: Forum you know, his coaching staff was great. I think

899
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 3: that also we changed, We've changed the trainer in the

900
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 3: strength room. You know, there was just these subtle differences

901
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: that you could tell that this was a bigger I

902
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: want to say it was. It was a bigger consistency

903
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 3: throughout the whole year, like you know, like what there

904
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 3: might have been some time off I think in between

905
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 3: Tommy Joe Eagles off season, but with coach Ellis, there wasn't.

906
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 2: And it feels like and again, Tim, if I'm wrong,

907
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: but this is another fresh start for you. Right, you

908
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 2: had the fresh start when you're from Cleveland to Florida.

909
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 2: You had the fresh start when you at Auburn after

910
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: your first year when you got to go and and

911
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: play at with the Irish national team. Right, and now

912
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: you get another fresh start after kind of establishing yourself

913
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: as a developmental player and you're much further along. What

914
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: was he like to you? What did he tell you?

915
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 2: What was his expectations of you?

916
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 3: I don't think you ever gave me expectations. I think

917
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 3: it was more you know, he would just you know,

918
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 3: he would come up and he'd not not so much

919
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 3: congratulate you, but he'd confirm or affirm when you were

920
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 3: doing good things. You know, keep doing this, keep doing that.

921
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 3: I don't think till my junior year when we played

922
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 3: in San Juan. He after one game he was just like,

923
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 3: you know, guys, we got a stud on our team.

924
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: And I'm looking around the room like who's he talking about?

925
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: You know? And we had just beat Louisville in the

926
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 3: finals and they had Samocky Walker and Lewis Simms. And

927
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 3: I remember at that point my junior year, he was like, look,

928
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: there's people that coming. They're going to start looking at you.

929
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: And I was like, what, Like, you know, I'm just

930
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 3: I'm just playing college ball. Like again, is I think

931
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: one of the things that I lacked, and that was

932
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 3: any type of goal that was outside of just that

933
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 3: month or two months, you know. Like you know, I

934
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 3: see a lot of times I see documentaries and I'm like, man,

935
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 3: I wish I could go back and start thinking big

936
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 3: picture more when I was younger.

937
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 2: Do you know. I mean, like there's the naivete. I

938
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: think it's a healthier thing, right like you, I kind

939
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 2: of think all they think now is a big picture,

940
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: whereas you don't enjoy the little things, like the little

941
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: growth and the other stuff. If you're worried big pic like,

942
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: were you a regular student, did you go to the

943
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: football games, did you go to parties? Or you know,

944
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: were you because because I will tell you now, if

945
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 2: you go to a college campus, they're barely students. And

946
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they don't take classes, but they take

947
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: them online. Right, They're at the facility, they're at training

948
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: table in front of their computer in the student athlete

949
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: like academic area, and very rarely on campus. And to me, like,

950
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: I was actually just at my own model and one

951
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 2: of the freshmen was like, yeah, we just I just

952
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: moved on my class online, and both me and the

953
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: head coach, Mike Boyden, were like, I think you want

954
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: you should get to campus, you know, like one of

955
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 2: your days a week, just because there's nothing like winning

956
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: a game, a league game, being Oklahoma and then strutting

957
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 2: on campus. Right, that's the ship. That's the best part.

958
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 2: So I understand, like you were like, man, I can't

959
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: believe all this stuff was happening around me. I didn't

960
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: even know. On the other hand, I don't know. I

961
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 2: think that naivete is super healthy because it allowed you

962
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: to enjoy and absorb all this other stuff that's going on.

963
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when I tell you about my senior year.

964
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 3: I think that that's absolutely spot on, because you know,

965
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: being Irish, being an immigrant coming over, when you're coming

966
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 3: from nothing, you have nothing to lose. So I don't

967
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: think there was any fear that I was playing with

968
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 3: my junior year. I was just putting it all on

969
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 3: the line, you know, like I was going to parties,

970
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:52,959
Speaker 3: I was going you know, I was going to class,

971
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 3: making sure that I took care of my stuff. So

972
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 3: in a sense, I definitely agree that, you know, my

973
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 3: junior year probably was the end then of me being

974
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 3: in the moment and then I all of a sudden,

975
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 3: I clicked something and a switch went off, and then

976
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 3: I just kind of I was thinking way too much.

977
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: You were thinking too much your senior year. Yeah, yeah, No,

978
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: it's a it's a really hard one. I think everybody

979
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: kind of goes that. They people wonder why sometimes seniors

980
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: don't perform to the level of expectations, and that's why,

981
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: because they put too much on them on themselves. I

982
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: got to ask, though Irish background, you had to be

983
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 2: a legendary beer drinker.

984
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes people will call me former teammates

985
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: and they'll tell me a story and I'll be like,

986
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 3: I don't remember that, I'm not co signing that. So

987
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: but there will go a lot, especially with the Irish

988
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 3: national team. You know, we have a pilgrimage. We'd go

989
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 3: to the Guinness brewy uh in the summer and h yeah,

990
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 3: there was a lot of really good, good, good memories,

991
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 3: good stories, a lot of beer.

992
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 2: So okay. I have a friend Dave Redison, works for

993
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 2: the Big ten Network, and he did a semester abroad

994
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: and actually played little basketball there and he said, like,

995
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 2: so in Ireland it is a fact. It is not

996
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 2: an arguable fact that the closer to the brewery the

997
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 2: pub is the better the beer. Is that accurate, and

998
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: then of course you went to the actual brewery. So

999
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: what is what is the reality to the quality of Guinness.

1000
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 3: It's extremely interesting, but I didn't know this until the

1001
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: first time I went over. There's they said there's three

1002
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 3: grades of Guinness. So there's an A, B and C

1003
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: and most of the time we're drinking beer. C and

1004
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 3: A is only brought out during like Saint Patrick's Day

1005
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 3: or big festive events. So there probably is a some

1006
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 3: sort of radius inside of what you're sharing that you know,

1007
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: there's only so many of the really good barrels and

1008
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: kegs coming out of there. But as far as like

1009
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 3: having one in Ireland compared to having one in Cleveland,

1010
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: Ohio or Mount Or, Florida, it's night and day, you know,

1011
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 3: Like I was just over. I was just over for

1012
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 3: four weeks, got back about four or five days ago,

1013
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 3: and it's just a significant difference. Your senior year, well

1014
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 3: you remember, so I think once I heard that there

1015
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 3: were scouts coming, I was like, you know what, it's

1016
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 3: the junior year, Damien or not Damien. Eric Dampier is

1017
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 3: kind of at the pinnacle of the draft in it

1018
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 3: was at ninety six. So we're at the SEC tournament

1019
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 3: and I remember Mississippi State is taking us out. We

1020
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 3: made to the second game.

1021
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 2: They went to the final four that year too, so

1022
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like they're a bad team, right right.

1023
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 3: So I'm sitting there and I'm looking at him, and

1024
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 3: I'm getting into my defensive position for a free throw

1025
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 3: in our basket. He's shooting the free throw and I

1026
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 3: remember looking at his forearms and I'm like, Damn, this

1027
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: guy's big. I'm like, I gotta get big. So I

1028
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,439
Speaker 3: devote all my time going into the weight room, going

1029
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: in and balancing the weight room. We're not even balancing

1030
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 3: any understanding of what muscle groups do you to work on?

1031
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 3: You know, like now in today's world, it's like every

1032
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 3: sport has got specific things that they're working on a

1033
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 3: lot of core or you know, upper body Laura. But

1034
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 3: I was just going in there and I'm doing everything

1035
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 3: that an Auburn football strength coach is telling me to do.

1036
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 3: So I go from two hundred and forty five pounds,

1037
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 3: I get up to two hundred and eighty pounds when

1038
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 3: I get to my senior year. Yeah, I mean I

1039
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 3: look like an NFL player. I was huge, and I

1040
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 3: go out to start the first game, you know, put

1041
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 3: some good numbers up in the preseason. As two or

1042
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 3: three games go by, I get winded after four minutes

1043
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 3: and coach has to Coach Ellis says to take me out.

1044
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 3: So I remember, Mama do Enji was a freshman coming in,

1045
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 3: so he kept getting the call, and I remember just

1046
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 3: looking at I was on the bench watching him play.

1047
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 3: He was doing really well, and I'm like going, how

1048
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: the hell am I getting out of the game, And

1049
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 3: I kept thinking it was something about Coach Allison and like,

1050
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 3: and I was like, what is this? And I had

1051
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 3: actually taken myself out with all the pressure, and so

1052
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 3: all my stats and everything were lower my senior year

1053
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 3: than my junior year. And I just remember that it

1054
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 3: was probably around Christmas or you know, there was a

1055
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 3: break coming. I remember we were at a practice and

1056
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 3: coach Ellis came up to me and he was just

1057
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 3: like very stern, and he's like, damn it, you are

1058
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 3: strong enough. Get the hell out of the weight room.

1059
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 3: I don't want ever want to see you in that

1060
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 3: rate weight room the rest of the year. And I

1061
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 3: still kept thinking to myself, like I got to make

1062
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: this happen. And then of course over the season, I

1063
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 3: just kept gotting to the point where I couldn't even

1064
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 3: get in the game because I couldn't even stay you know,

1065
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: partio ready. And then of course my when I went

1066
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 3: and played pro my first year out, I got back

1067
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 3: to two fifty, lost all the weight got and I

1068
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 3: got back to myself.

1069
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: Get We'll get to that in a second. So your

1070
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: your last game, your senior year, where was it.

1071
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 3: Last game? We didn't make it into the NIT or

1072
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: anything that year, And I remember I was just being

1073
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 3: so upset at the idea that Auburn was on the

1074
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 3: quarter system at that time, and again as we weren't

1075
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 3: a basketball school and that we lived for March Madness.

1076
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: We were more of a football school that when the

1077
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 3: basketball team got into March, we all wanted to have

1078
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,760
Speaker 3: our break and go home. And it just it upset

1079
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 3: me that, like, this is my senior year, this is

1080
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 3: the end of it. And I think that was in

1081
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 3: I think it was the tournament that year was in Nashville,

1082
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 3: and I just remember at the end of it just thinking,

1083
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 3: you know, I can't believe I let this senior year

1084
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 3: end like this, and it just felt crappy. You know.

1085
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 3: I remember going out in the SEC tournament. We were out,

1086
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 3: you know, afterwards, and this one person came up to

1087
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 3: me was like, oh man, you Pap Burke, and I'm like, kid,

1088
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I picked you for my Fantasy

1089
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 3: League SEC team because you were the leading you were

1090
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 3: the leading rebounder, coming back into your scene your year

1091
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 3: and it's like what happened? And I'm like, yeah, thanks

1092
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 3: the whole what happened? Like, I was like, you know,

1093
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: there's such a story there that I overthought, you know,

1094
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 3: going back to what you were saying, like four or

1095
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 3: five minutes ago. It's like I wasn't in the moment.

1096
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 3: I was thinking too far into the future and doing

1097
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 3: so I cut myself out.

1098
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: How long after your senior year did you realize that

1099
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 2: it was you not Coach Ellis? Oh?

1100
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 3: It was probably two or three years later.

1101
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I would say, so my you know, my

1102
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 2: junior year I led the country, insists, But it's actually

1103
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 2: I played the fewest minutes per game of any year

1104
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 2: in my career because I got into Coach's doghouse right,

1105
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: and I had after my first year there, I came back.

1106
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 2: I mean I was ready and I was killing it,

1107
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 2: but I got a technical in a Florida Atlantic game

1108
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 2: at eighteen assists. But I had a bad technical and

1109
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 2: we lose in some crazy shit. And then we play

1110
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 2: UCLA and actually got thrown out of the game, and

1111
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 2: someone is managing my emotions. But you know, again, like

1112
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: when I look back at what I like, I struggle

1113
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,879
Speaker 2: to watch myself play in college because guys played off

1114
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 2: me because it couldn't shoot. But like forever I would

1115
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 2: you know, you have that you get done with college

1116
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 2: and you're like if you wouldn't have fucking taken me

1117
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 2: out every time I've missed a shot. I would have

1118
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: been able to make shots. On the other hand, like

1119
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 2: I realized that I would work and work and work

1120
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 2: every off season. And then I also went through the

1121
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 2: getting too big so you couldn't shoot right, put on

1122
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 2: too much muscle. And then the other part is like

1123
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: you get into practice and you start working less on

1124
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 2: your game and on shooting and your mentality, and then

1125
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: you go through practice where you don't take shots in

1126
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 2: live action. So you get in the game and of

1127
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 2: course you're not going to take shots right, So I

1128
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: would say it's the same thing, right, It's like it's

1129
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: like really two years for me before I was like,

1130
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 2: you know what, it wasn't him, it was me. Yeah,

1131
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: And like that's the sign of ultimate maturity when you

1132
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: start pulling the finger in like, yeah, that was that's

1133
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 2: my bad, that's that's the coach that that.

1134
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 3: Uh so that that was in ninety seven and then

1135
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: ninety eight, Peyton and myself we got married. We met

1136
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 3: at school and I remember I invited all the guys

1137
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 3: and I didn't invite coach Jealous because I had a

1138
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 3: grudge thinking it was him, and I remember like a

1139
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 3: year after that, I went, I was on campus and

1140
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 3: you know, I had a great relationship with him and

1141
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 3: his family, and his son came up to me and

1142
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 3: just blatantly just said, why didn't you invite my dad

1143
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 3: to your wedding? And I had some bullshit excuse, you know,

1144
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 3: not owning the fact that I made something up, and

1145
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 3: so he uh sorry. He ended up he ended up

1146
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 3: giving me probably a seated understanding to start thinking, why

1147
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,959
Speaker 3: did you Why did you do that? You know, because

1148
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 3: every time I look at my wedding photos and all

1149
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 3: the all the fun that we had, you know, like

1150
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 3: all these great people that were around my life at

1151
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: the time, Marty Waters, all of my teammates and all

1152
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 3: that were there, and it's like Coach wasn't there, and

1153
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 3: it was because of my grudge. And I realized that

1154
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 3: whenever I look at those photos sometimes I realized, like

1155
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 3: the people that weren't there, and I'm going, you know,

1156
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 3: I made some shit up, you know, and I have

1157
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 3: to own that.

1158
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 2: I'd say. For part one of my talk with with

1159
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 2: Pat Burke, of course, that's the growing up high school

1160
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 2: and college experience. How did he make it overseas how

1161
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 2: did he make it in the NBA, what was that

1162
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 2: lifestyle like? And the juxtaposition of the two and the

1163
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 2: lessons learned along the way, In addition to which we're

1164
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 2: going to try and fix USA basketball as we get

1165
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 2: ready for next year's Olympics. All that is upcoming a

1166
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 2: reminded of the Doug Outleid shows daily three to five

1167
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: Eastern time on Fox Sports Radio the iHeartRadio app of

1168
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: Fox Sports Tradio dot com. Of course, that's noon to two.

1169
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 2: I also have a daily podcast called in the Bonus.

1170
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 2: You can check that out. That's all sports, not just basketball.

1171
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, this time of year, obviously we rarely

1172
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 2: talk basketball, but it's good stuff and a reminder will

1173
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 2: drop Part two probably in about two days by thanks

1174
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 2: to Pat Burke. That's part one. I'm Doug Gottlie. This

1175
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 2: is all ball