1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,400
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

2
00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and.

3
00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you,

4
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,440
Speaker 2: Ian Fish with us. Since this book is inside the

5
00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:16,520
Speaker 2: cartel Ian the undercover agent Martin Suarez was on boats

6
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,439
Speaker 2: a lot of times where they would drop ship the

7
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,560
Speaker 2: cocaine from planes and then they'd go and pick it up. Well,

8
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 2: just recently the president has ordered the military to attack

9
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 2: and blow up cartel ships that they believe are coming

10
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,680
Speaker 2: from the cartels Venezuela. Especially, what are your thoughts on that?

11
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,040
Speaker 3: Well, I think, first and foremost it shows how timely

12
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:47,000
Speaker 3: this book is. But I think that President Trump's current

13
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:53,000
Speaker 3: efforts against the cartels are also indicative of the warren drugs,

14
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 3: you know, and kind of the quagmire that has become.

15
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 3: And Martin and I spoke about this because I asked him, mysel, well,

16
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 3: what are your thoughts, I mean, you went undercover, you

17
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 3: risked your life for the war on drugs? Did you

18
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,760
Speaker 3: make a dent like talk to me about that? And

19
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 3: his response always was that his role as an undercover

20
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 3: agent thwarting the cartels was in his mind a very

21
00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,040
Speaker 3: noble one. But he understood too in the big picture

22
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 3: that he's just one guy going after a couple core groups.

23
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,640
Speaker 3: But the way that the global drug trade words is

24
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,840
Speaker 3: that it is self regenerating, and in order to truly

25
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:39,679
Speaker 3: dismantle it, quote unquote, a war really needs to start,

26
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 3: and that was his point of view. He's like, the

27
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 3: Warren Drugs was never won because it never really started. However,

28
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:46,959
Speaker 3: when you look at what President Trump is doing now,

29
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,960
Speaker 3: complete over tactics where you show the public the video

30
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 3: of what you just did isn't necessarily the most fruitful

31
00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,280
Speaker 3: approach either. If you hold a hammer, everything's going to

32
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 3: be a nail, and sometimes that doesn't work. And talking

33
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 3: to Martin, he said that you need a blend of

34
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 3: covert tactics like what he did, overt tactics similar to

35
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,800
Speaker 3: maybe what Trump is doing now, but also diplomatic sometimes gorilla.

36
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,600
Speaker 3: You know, you need a complete three hundred and sixty

37
00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 3: degree long term approach and mindset to this problem. But again,

38
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 3: the war on drugs is a political machine. It changes

39
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 3: with every new administration. Certainly the Warren Drugs changed after

40
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 3: nine to eleven, So there are a lot of factors

41
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 3: in here that can influence how strong the cartels are

42
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,880
Speaker 3: at any given time, and then there's also consumption habits

43
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:48,359
Speaker 3: of Americans and the you know, the the the availability

44
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 3: of highly addictive chemicals. I mean, you look at fentanyl now,

45
00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 3: it's much it's a much different animal than than than

46
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 3: than the cocaine trade was even thirty years ago. Although

47
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,120
Speaker 3: I will say that more cocaine is being distributed throughout

48
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 3: the world than when Pablo Escobar was in power. So

49
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 3: it's a it's a tough and complicated situation to wrap

50
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 3: your head around.

51
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 2: What do you think would happen if they legalized all

52
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 2: of this?

53
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,559
Speaker 3: Personally, I'm not too sure. Certainly, when you legalize a substance,

54
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 3: the black market becomes much less valuable. I think people

55
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:36,160
Speaker 3: would would rather buy drugs through legal means. I don't

56
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 3: really know the societal implications of legalizing cocaine. I personally

57
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 3: think that cocaine is very harmful and addictive, and I

58
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 3: would assume that legalizing it may open up the door

59
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 3: for people who wouldn't otherwise use the substance to use it.

60
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 2: And that's it used to be legal years ago.

61
00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and you saw I mean, you hear stories

62
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 3: from the early nineteen hundreds arly eighteen hundreds, where this

63
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,080
Speaker 3: would almost be a pharmaceutical drug. And I don't really

64
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,400
Speaker 3: think that the results were all that good, you know.

65
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 3: I think they even used it as like a local

66
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 3: anesthetic at some point. But to me, it's like, you know,

67
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,720
Speaker 3: I'm not sure you want to just try to legalize

68
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,040
Speaker 3: cocaine to help solve the cartel problem. I think Colombian

69
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,120
Speaker 3: drug cartels operate as if they're fortune five hundred companies

70
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,719
Speaker 3: who have political power, who have you know, a lot

71
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:32,720
Speaker 3: of local sway in how communities are structured. It's not

72
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,640
Speaker 3: just people creating a product. They're much bigger than that.

73
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 2: Now, how organized based on your work with Marty, was

74
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 2: the cartel.

75
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 3: Like I just said, they operated as if they were

76
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 3: a fortune five hundred company, and the hierarchy of the

77
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 3: cartel was was written in stone. I mean, for example,

78
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 3: the Median cartel, you had Pablo Escobar, who is basically

79
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,799
Speaker 3: the CEO, and then you had a series of deputies

80
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 3: like the Ochoa brothers, who had their own territory, They

81
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 3: had their own sort of connections in terms of trafficking

82
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 3: and money laundering. It was almost like a franchise e

83
00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 3: model where you had individual drug lords who did their

84
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 3: own thing, but pledged allegiance and used the resources available

85
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,679
Speaker 3: through a certain cartel, whether it was the Mediine cartel

86
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,760
Speaker 3: or the Cali cartel or the North Coast cartel. But

87
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 3: this wasn't like a haphazard sort of approach. These were

88
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 3: structures and techniques that were very well thought through and

89
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,160
Speaker 3: utilized by a lot of people simultaneously, which gave them

90
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,800
Speaker 3: a lot of power when it came to unilateral movements. Okay,

91
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,039
Speaker 3: we're going to move our cocaine through Mexico now, or

92
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,919
Speaker 3: versus the Caribbean, and this is how the state side

93
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,360
Speaker 3: distributors are going to work. And here are the people

94
00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,360
Speaker 3: who are going to launder our money. It was all

95
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,480
Speaker 3: very wealthy and very well organized.

96
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 2: When you were interviewing Marty for the book, were there

97
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,240
Speaker 2: any moments that you went to yourself and just said,

98
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,800
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I can't believe this stuff.

99
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,159
Speaker 3: Of course, I mean, I think I've become slightly desensitized

100
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 3: to it over the years of writing this book. But

101
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 3: when you kind of just break it down to the

102
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 3: bare essentials of this story and understanding how singular his

103
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,120
Speaker 3: approach was. I mean, for example, you had mentioned that

104
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,479
Speaker 3: posing as a smuggler, Martin convinced the cartel to do

105
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 3: an air drop at sea, and in one of these

106
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 3: air drops, the Columbian Cartel's plane flew overhead and discharged

107
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,799
Speaker 3: five hundred million dollars worth of cocaine into the ocean,

108
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:52,560
Speaker 3: and Martin picked it up with fellow undercover agents by hand,

109
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,760
Speaker 3: threw the bales of cocaine into their little boat, brought

110
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 3: the cocaine to a bigger boat which was then routed

111
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,720
Speaker 3: to Miami, and the undercover operations still going on, and

112
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,160
Speaker 3: they actually give the cocaine to the State side distributor,

113
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,720
Speaker 3: and that's when they make their bust. Just to understand

114
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 3: how incredible that is, Like that would never happen today.

115
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 3: You could never do that. And beyond that, that's just

116
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 3: like that's that's chapter one of this book. I mean,

117
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 3: when Martin became a money launderer, the FBI made a decision.

118
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 3: They said, you know, when we did the smuggling stuff

119
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 3: and the cocaine distribution, not a gram hit the street.

120
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 3: It all got seized at opportune times. That deflected blame

121
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 3: from Martin, but also again kept the drugs off the street.

122
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,680
Speaker 3: So they made sure that his undercover legend was intact

123
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 3: while also seizing the drugs, but with money laundering, the

124
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 3: only way to truly know how the apparatus worked was

125
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 3: to allow the narco dollars to go back into the

126
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 3: underground economy. So when Martin was launch ring money for

127
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 3: the cartel, they weren't seizing that cash. They were letting

128
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,200
Speaker 3: that cash actually be laundered so they could find out

129
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 3: how the cartels did it. And that was remarkable to

130
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 3: me because you know, that was a huge public relations

131
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 3: risk for the FBI if the if the operation went

132
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,800
Speaker 3: sideways and top brass at the Bureau was you know,

133
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,800
Speaker 3: strutted out in front of Congress, they would have to

134
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 3: answer some some pretty tough questions. But from an operational standpoint,

135
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 3: and Martin explained this to me that it was it

136
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 3: was a necessity for them to really understand where this

137
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 3: money went. A sale of cocaine happened, the cash is

138
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 3: then given to certain people, where does it go from there?

139
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 3: And for the FBI to allow the narco dollars to

140
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 3: go back into this underground economy was remarkable to me,

141
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,640
Speaker 3: and again something that would never happen today.

142
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 2: That's true. What kept the bundles of cocaine that were

143
00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,960
Speaker 2: dumped into the ocean from sinking.

144
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:06,959
Speaker 3: So cocaine is a powder and enough air can get

145
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:12,079
Speaker 3: into the bales when they're packed in Colombia to keep

146
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,160
Speaker 3: them afloat in the ocean, they would not sink, and

147
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 3: they were wrapped in a certain way where water would

148
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,079
Speaker 3: not intrude onto the drugs and one ruin them, but

149
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,160
Speaker 3: also be allowed the bail to sink. But the cartel

150
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,280
Speaker 3: would do these sorts of drops also in the middle

151
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:32,080
Speaker 3: of the night, and they're not really using huge flashlights

152
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 3: or anything. They would draw attention to themselves. So they

153
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,240
Speaker 3: had a fixed glowsticks to the bales. So when they

154
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 3: come out of the airplane, Martin's and his little bow,

155
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,760
Speaker 3: he can see the bales falling from the sky with

156
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,040
Speaker 3: the glow sticks, and then when they hit the water,

157
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 3: you can see just a line of glow sticks. And

158
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,680
Speaker 3: he would navigate his boat slowly and pick one up

159
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 3: at a time and just follow the glow sticks.

160
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 2: In the middle of the night. How low did the

161
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,200
Speaker 2: pilots get there ian before?

162
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 3: Pretty low, I think that they could. These are dual

163
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,640
Speaker 3: propeller planes, so they can handle some cargo but still

164
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 3: be maneuverable, and they would come down pretty low, probably

165
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 3: like maybe one hundred feet or so, which also gives

166
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 3: them a little bit more accuracy in terms of where

167
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,600
Speaker 3: they're going to drop the bails, because you really don't

168
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,600
Speaker 3: want to have a kind of all over the place

169
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 3: type course. You want to be able to drop the

170
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,080
Speaker 3: bails in a straight line so the retriever can pick

171
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,319
Speaker 3: them up quickly, but also so you don't lose one

172
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,200
Speaker 3: or two in the in the ocean's current, because it

173
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,360
Speaker 3: would take a long time to find one if it

174
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,319
Speaker 3: if it was kind of tossed indiscriminately.

175
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,920
Speaker 2: In your opinion, did Martin's work make a dent in

176
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 2: the cocaine traffic?

177
00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 3: I think at that time it did. I don't think

178
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,200
Speaker 3: it did. Like you know, I say, oh, you know,

179
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 3: Martin smuggled a billion dollars worth of cocaine, and all

180
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 3: of that cocaine was eventually seized by the FBI. You

181
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,040
Speaker 3: think to yourself, oh my god, that's so much. It

182
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 3: really wasn't. I mean, at that time, the cartels were

183
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,040
Speaker 3: importing billions of dollars of cocaine every month, and it

184
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,839
Speaker 3: took Martin years to smuggle and seize just one billion's worth.

185
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 3: But I will say that Martin's greatest contribution to the

186
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 3: war on drugs and the war on these cartels at

187
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,839
Speaker 3: that time was more psychological. And that's what I mean

188
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,040
Speaker 3: when you when I speak about the current situation with

189
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 3: the cartels, is that sometimes you need a more philosophical approach,

190
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 3: a more holistic approach, in that it's not just about

191
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,559
Speaker 3: seizing drugs, it's about destabilizing the cartels from the inside.

192
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,560
Speaker 3: And I think that was Martin's greatest achievement in that

193
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 3: when he was doing these operations and all the cocaine

194
00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 3: was getting seized and then people are getting arrested, the

195
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 3: cartel was kind of spinning around in a sort of

196
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 3: funhouse mirror sort of situation where they didn't know what

197
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 3: was up what was down anymore. They didn't know who

198
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,160
Speaker 3: they could trust, and that creates internal turmoil within the cartel.

199
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,559
Speaker 3: They start pointing fingers at each other, They start pointing

200
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,040
Speaker 3: fingers at their rivals, They start pointing fingers at an

201
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,880
Speaker 3: associate or another group that they're working with and saying,

202
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 3: are you guys screwing us over? Are you guys lying

203
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 3: to us? And that's really what can do the most

204
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,760
Speaker 3: damage to these cartels. It's not really the drugs being seized,

205
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,560
Speaker 3: it is the destabilizing effect of Martin's role as an

206
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 3: undercover agent that made the greatest impact.

207
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 2: Where did the cartel get the product to begin with?

208
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,320
Speaker 2: Did they grow it themselves or did they import it?

209
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,439
Speaker 2: How did they get it?

210
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 1: So?

211
00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 3: Columbia and much of South America is prime prime growing

212
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:10,080
Speaker 3: geography for cocaine, and cocaine is derived from the coca plant.

213
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 3: And a lot of these high level drug lords that

214
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,840
Speaker 3: align themselves with specific cartels, they owned a lot of land.

215
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 3: A lot of these very successful drug lords in the

216
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,360
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties and nineties were previously rice farmers, different types

217
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 3: of farmers who owned thousands of acres of Columbian jungle.

218
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,679
Speaker 3: But when cocaine became the number one export out of Columbia,

219
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 3: they transformed this land into cultivation fields where they could

220
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:45,080
Speaker 3: grow cocoa in a super remote area and manufacture the

221
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,240
Speaker 3: drug without fear of reprisal. And then from there, once

222
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:54,440
Speaker 3: a drug is manufactured, it can be transported locally to

223
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 3: a basically packaging facility, and then once the bales are

224
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 3: to go, the powers that be at the cartel could say, okay,

225
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 3: these this shipment's going to go here to this person.

226
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,040
Speaker 3: You know, that's where the kind of buying and selling

227
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,840
Speaker 3: really begins. But the most successful drug lords made their

228
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 3: own cocaine because they could control every step of the process.

229
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 2: Did the Colombian governments just turn their cheek the other way.

230
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 3: Pretty much? Yeah, In my opinion, I think that they

231
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 3: kind of came to realize that they didn't have the

232
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 3: resources to to necessarily remove the role of a cartel

233
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 3: in Colombian society. And what I mean by that is

234
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,840
Speaker 3: the irony of all of this, too, is that narco

235
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,640
Speaker 3: dollars really did come to prop up the Colombian economy.

236
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 3: A lot of the money that the cartels made entered

237
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,720
Speaker 3: the above ground economy in some way or another, whether

238
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 3: it's through real estate development or using merchandise as a

239
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 3: money lundering tactic and having that merchandise enter the above

240
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 3: ground economy for cheaper than what it normally would be.

241
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,720
Speaker 3: You know, if you removed the role of the cartels

242
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,000
Speaker 3: in the Colombian economy, you might have some serious problems.

243
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 3: And I think that the Colombian government perhaps thought that

244
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 3: the devil we know is better than the devil, we

245
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 3: don't know, and that sort of guided their decision to

246
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,400
Speaker 3: try to work with the cartels and create some equilibrium

247
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 3: with them still operating in the country while trying to

248
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:44,840
Speaker 3: mitigate the worst parts of cartel rule, you know, extradicial killings, violence,

249
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 3: this sort of thing over corruption, but trying to I guess,

250
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 3: utilize the better parts of the drug trade, if you

251
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 3: could call it that, to make Columbia a decent place

252
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 3: to live for as citizenry.

253
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,320
Speaker 2: And how do we know that they weren't signon partners

254
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 2: with the government.

255
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 3: Well, we kind of do know in some respects that

256
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:14,520
Speaker 3: Narco dollars had entered the political establishment in pretty over ways.

257
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,160
Speaker 3: There was a couple scandals throughout the eighties and nineties

258
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 3: where it was revealed that the Cali Kartel and the

259
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:31,160
Speaker 3: Mediane cartel had donated money to political campaigns. I think

260
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 3: that was a little bit.

261
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 2: More rare as you got higher.

262
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 3: Up the food chain in the Colombian political establishment, there

263
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 3: was certainly more common regionally.

264
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

265
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,520
Speaker 1: one a m Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

266
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 1: dot com for more