WEBVTT - Listener Q&A 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:13.720 Cool Zone Media. Hello listeners, Molly Conger here, I've got 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.680 something a little different for you this week, something a 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:21.200 little lighter. I will finally wrap up the South Africa 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:25.079 story arc next week, and that story will end the 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.200 way it began, with the President of the United States 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:32.280 peddling conspiracy theories about why genocide. But I'm going to 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.960 level with you, I just wasn't in the mood this 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.320 week to cut clips from audio of Jordan Peterson interviewing 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.479 a guy trying to sell real estate in a planned 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.680 Ethno state. That shit sucks, And I still haven't made 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.320 the seating chart for my wedding next week. I mentioned, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.120 probably a month ago at this point now that I 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.440 was thinking about doing a listener Q and a episode 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:58.279 sometime soon, and then I promptly got lost down an 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.360 infinite series of bottomless side quests. I'm still lost down there, 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.720 but my attention has been pretty divided lately, and I 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.760 felt like this was the right week to try and 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:13.840 answer some of your questions. I combed through the questions 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.440 you all submitted on the Weird Little Guys subreddit, and 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.040 they seem to fall into a few main categories. There 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:25.160 are questions about me questions about my research and writing methodology, 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.240 about how the show gets made, and questions about the 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.520 lives of the Weird Little Guys. And I can answer 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.520 some of those for sure, but by far the most 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.119 common questions, both from you all on the subreddit and 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.760 from the groups of university students I've had the opportunity 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.520 to speak with in the last few months, are ones 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:50.680 I don't really have good answers for. They aren't questions 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.160 of fact. The answers aren't in a newspaper archive, they 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.320 aren't something I can dig up in the court records. 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:02.120 They're questions of the soul. I've been invited to speak 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.720 to students at the University of Richmond and the University 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:09.040 of Virginia a few times this semester, and every time, 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.920 regardless of what the subject of the class or of 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.280 the event is, no matter what I have prepared or 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.160 how the professor prompts the group, people always ask me 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:25.520 one question, in particular, Can people change? Can you bring 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.639 someone back once they've become the kind of guy who 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:31.720 might end up on an episode of Weird Little Guys. 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.359 The short answer is yes, Yes, of course they can. 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:44.800 There's always always hope. I believe that because I have to. 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.400 If I didn't, I don't think I could do this. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.200 Maybe I shouldn't have started this with the hardest question, 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:55.760 especially if. 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:57.000 I'm not even going to answer it. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.160 But I wanted to address it because I know it's 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.160 one A lot of you have asked yourselves as you 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.399 listen to the show, And like I said, I don't 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.480 have the answer, not really. I'm not a philosopher or 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:15.320 an ethicist or a theologian, not a psychologist or a sociologist, 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.200 and I don't have any direct experience in deradicalization, the 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.400 work of engaging with people who want to leave the 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.400 movement and supporting them in that process. But I think 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.160 the lack of a definitive answer to this question is 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:34.280 ultimately a good thing. If the question remains open, you 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:39.160 have to constantly revisit it, reassess it. I spend so 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:43.400 much of my time wading through the evidence that evil exists. 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.480 I should constantly re evaluate what I think that means. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:53.040 And I've seen a lot of monstrous things. I've watched 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.600 live streamed mass murders and red manifestos. I've sat in 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.200 little courtrooms just feet away from men with massive stockpiles 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.559 of weapons who were planning mass casualty events and assassinations. 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.760 I've watched men who proudly call themselves Nazis, men who 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.720 worship Hitler laugh in the faces of their own victims, 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.200 fed a casual chat in a public park with a 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.919 member of rape Waffen. So maybe you don't expect me 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:26.919 to say this, but I absolutely still believe that every 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.479 single one of them is still human. They're still reachable. 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.120 There is still the possibility, however remote, that they could 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.960 wake up one day and realize they were wrong, that 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.520 they took a wrong turn and wound up down a 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:46.440 dead end following an ideology that hurts everyone, including themselves. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.560 The catches they have to want to, and they rarely do. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.839 Redemption isn't something that just happens to a guy. It's 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.520 something that's hard fought for and not always one and 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.800 if they're doing it right, you'll probably never know about it. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.359 There are real life stories of people in the movement 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.640 who made one black friend or one Jewish friend, one 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.840 gay friend, whatever, and then realize that those kinds of 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.680 people are human and that led them to question and 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:24.560 then renounce their beliefs. 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.320 It happens, but. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.159 That's a lot to ask of marginalized people. I'm not 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.680 telling you to go out there and love a Nazi 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:34.160 until he. 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:34.880 Loves you back. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.440 It doesn't usually work, and it doesn't sound like a 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:42.600 fulfilling way to spend your time. And there are some 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.480 splashy news stories every now and again about a former 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.280 neo Nazi on a redemption arc, but the real work 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:55.640 of making amends is quiet and boring and perhaps quite rare. 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:58.120 I think, in. 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.160 Most cases, the best we can hope for it as 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.520 a half asked version. Guys who quit the movement and 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.680 just stop hurting other people. They don't really interrogate their 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.279 own past actions. They don't try to undo the harm 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:16.880 they did. They don't apologize, They just stop actively becoming worse. 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.560 And that's much more common. I think that happens all 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.640 the time. But there's no news story when a guy 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.240 gets bored of posting race war memes and drops out 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:30.120 of the terrorism planning chat. And I want to be clear, 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.520 I'm not talking about absolution. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:34.440 I don't mean that. 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.560 I believe every mass shooter has within him the possibility 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.920 of becoming the kind of guy you'd enjoy hanging out 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.520 with or trust with your children. It doesn't mean anyone 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.719 has to forgive him. I don't mean that their crimes 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.000 should go unpunished if they take back all the stuff 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.560 they said about Hitler, but I think we have to 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.520 leave the door open. The question one of you posted 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.440 on the subreddit reads, do you think there is a 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.000 point of no why turn for a person when former 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.360 friends and family have to give up trying to bring 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.040 a person back on the right track? And if so, 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:11.040 what defines that point? And this is a question you 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.320 have to answer for yourselves individually. 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:15.120 I don't think there. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:19.440 Exists a specific, definitive goalpost here, a point of no return. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:22.160 But if there is someone. 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.360 Like this in your life, this question is yours to answer, 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.400 because there may come a point where you don't feel 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.040 safe continuing to engage with a friend or a loved 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:36.040 one who has turned towards extremism, And that's valid, But 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.520 I don't think that means that person is lost forever. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.600 This is an opinion of mine that makes people pretty 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.760 mad sometimes, and that's okay. I won't tell you what 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.000 should be in your heart. I will never ask you 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:56.760 to forgive any of these men. Hell I don't, but 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.680 I do try to approach my work with hard eyes 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.360 and a soft heart. And what I mean by that 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.440 is I want to look clearly at the harm a 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.520 man has done, but hope for the day that he 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.480 sees that harm too. And with that out of the way, 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:17.080 let's get to some questions. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:18.720 I do have answers for. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.720 One of you asked, do you ever find information about 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.080 how the families of weird little guys feel about or 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.320 react to their actions? Do more of these guys get 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.800 cut off or willingly cut off ties with their relatives? 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.760 Or is it more of a family affair, like driving 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.600 your uncle to the insurrection? And this is a question 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.640 with a lot of answers. It sort of reminds me 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.120 of the opening line of Anna Karenna. Right, all happy 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.520 families are alike. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:53.000 own way, and every Nazis family deals with the problem. 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:53.320 In their own way. 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.960 But there are some broad categories here. You've got movement families, 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.679 families where the weird little guy was raised in an 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.679 environment where his beliefs were normal and encouraged. There are 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.560 families in denial where the parents don't believe it's that serious, 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.199 they don't want to acknowledge it, or they claim to 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.360 have had no idea what was going on. And then 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.679 there are the families that do cut ties or make 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.880 public disavowals of their relatives beliefs and actions. For listeners 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.160 who may have missed the episode, the question asker is 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.200 referring to their driving your uncle to the insurrection is 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.559 a reference to Matthew and Dale Huddle, the subjects of 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.439 the episode A short lived pardon from back in February. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.760 Matthew Huddle was the recently pardoned January sixth defendant who 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.959 was killed by a police officer during a traffic stop 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:47.480 earlier this year. He wasn't really a true believer in anything, 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.400 but he went to the US capital on January sixth, 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.200 twenty twenty one with his uncle Dale, and Dale Huddle 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.040 was a man who had some pretty strong beliefs about 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:57.559 the government. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:09:59.840 His case is a bit of. 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.360 An outlier within that first category, though, because I wouldn't 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.880 call the Huddles a movement family. Matthew just sort of 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.560 went along for the ride. But movement families are a 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.200 very real thing. There are plenty of people who didn't 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.760 need four Chan or telegram to get radicalized because it's 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.280 just how they were raised. I'm sure plenty of parents 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.440 were surprised when they saw photos of their sons on 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.679 the news after the Unite the Right rally, but not 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.560 all of them. Jacob Goodwin, one of the men convicted 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.719 for the brutal beating of a counter protester, got a 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.680 ride to the rally from his mother. After his arrest, 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.319 she went on a Nazi podcast to talk about his case, 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.160 and she said that during her last visit with him 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.440 in prison, she told him, quote, don't you ever tell 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:55.400 Mama you're sorry for being a good, honorable man. A 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.400 lot of the movement families I can think of off 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.840 the top of my head are ones that deserve their 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.080 own episodes. I know at least one listener on the 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.560 subreddit is absolutely dying for me to finally do an 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:11.120 episode about the Arkansas based neo Nazi Billy Roper. He 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.040 was raised in a clan family and now he's trying 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.320 to start a white separatist community for other movement families. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.280 And there are families like the Bellogs. Alan Bellog was 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.400 a member of the American Nazi Party in the seventies, 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.120 and he joined National Alliance in its very earliest days. 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.640 He worked for David Duke's campaign in nineteen eighty eight, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.360 and he was the Pennsylvania unit leader for National Alliance 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.440 in the eighties. National Alliance founder William Luther Pearce told 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.760 his biographer quote Bellog would do things like staple Alliance 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.840 blackards to telephone polls, and he would punch out anybody 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:46.679 who gave him a bad time while he was doing it. 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.559 Sometimes this would result in legal difficulties, and one time, 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.400 when Bellog got fined five hundred dollars, I took up 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.760 a collection at one of our national conventions to pay 0:11:55.800 --> 0:12:00.320 us fine. Alan Bellog's son, Warren was raised in the moment. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.880 The father and son duo were in recent years founding 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.520 members of the now defunct neo Nazi group the National 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.559 Justice Party. When National Justice Party collapsed in twenty twenty three, 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.319 the current leader of National Alliance, Will Williams, wrote, Alan 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.440 Bellog had been a dedicated Alliance member for years and 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.280 as a good man, I met him and his son, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.560 Warren when Warren was twelve years old. The Alliance will 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.160 leave the door cracked for good men like the Belllogs 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:32.679 to rejoin. The Belllogs attended the twenty seventeen Unite the 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.880 right rally here in Charlottesville together, but only Warren signed 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.400 his name to a federal lawsuit against the city for 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:44.599 failing to proactively facilitate the Nazi rally. His case was 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.840 dismissed by the Western District of Virginia, and that decision 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.400 was upheld by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals last year. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.240 It's a very silly little lawsuit with no legal merit, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.760 so I don't expect his recent petition to have it 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.280 heard by the Supreme Court. We'll go anywhere, but the 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.000 complaint itself is so laughable that maybe I'll do a 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.760 minisode on it. I think most families fall into the 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.840 second category, the ones who neither share nor denounce the 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.520 views of their family member. They either didn't know, didn't understand, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.240 didn't think it was serious, didn't think he meant it, 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.120 or they just didn't want to see it. Some of 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.280 them are embarrassed by it, but others are indignant. They 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.440 don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.880 out of this thing that they'd convince themselves was just 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.920 a harmless quirk of their otherwise very wonderful son. 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:39.800 I see this most often in the. 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.120 Letters that mothers write to the judge after their son 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:48.120 is convicted of something horrible, but before he's sentenced. A 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.400 lot of these letters avoid this subject altogether, and they're 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.800 just sort of a list of his positive qualities. He's 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.760 a boy scout, he had a black best friend in 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:01.000 middle school. He moses grandmother's lawn, he's a good boy. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.880 I can think of two cases actually where a defendant's 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:09.040 parent told the court that their son isn't actually a Nazi, 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:14.440 it's just that he's autistic and this is his special interest. 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.440 It's such a profoundly weird thing to say, and it's 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.960 wild that I've seen it twice. For the record, I 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.120 do know some people whose special interest is Nazi stuff, 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.560 but they aren't out there being Nazis. They're some of 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:35.520 the best anti fascist researchers. I think the most satisfying 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.440 part of this answer for the listener is going to 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:43.640 be the third category, families who publicly disavow their Nazi relative. 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.760 I'm sure there are plenty of families who disown a relative, 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.240 but a lot of that happens quietly. It's ugly business, 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.560 and most people don't air this kind of dirty laundry. 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.840 One of these stories made national news. Back in twenty seventeen, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.320 on the Monday morning after the deadly Nazi rally here 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:07.040 in Charlottesville, a newspaper in Fargo, North Dakota published an 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.800 open letter from a father. The letter begins, my name 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.840 is Pierce Teft, and I am writing to all with 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.680 regards to my youngest son, Peter Teft, an avowed white nationalist. 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.280 He doesn't mince words, writing, I, along with all of 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.800 his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:33.920 my son's vile, hateful and racist rhetoric in actions. We 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.000 do not know specifically where he learned these beliefs. He 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.560 did not learn them at home. It's a pretty striking letter. 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.720 Like I said, most families stay quiet about this sort 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.440 of thing, but Teff's father felt it was his responsibility 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.160 to denounce his son, writing we have been silent up 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.800 until now, but we see now this was a mistake. 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.720 It was the silence of good people that allowed the 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.480 Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.680 the silence of good people that is allowing them to 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:08.200 flourish now. Peter Teft, my son is not welcome at 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:09.040 our family gatherings. 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:09.600 Any longer. 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.160 I pray my prodigal son will renounce his hateful beliefs 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.160 and return home then and only then, while I lay 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.120 out the feast. His hateful opinions are bringing hateful rhetoric 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.800 to his siblings, cousins, nieces, and nephews, as well as 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:27.440 his parents. Why must we be guilty by association? Again, 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.160 none of his beliefs were learned at home. We do not, 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:35.280 never have, and never will accept his twisted worldview. He 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.840 once joked, the thing about us fascists is it's not 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.440 that we don't believe in freedom of speech. You can 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.840 say whatever you want. We'll just throw you in an oven, Peter, 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.000 you will have to shovel our bodies into. 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:49.400 The oven too. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:56.440 Please, Son, renounce the hate, accept in love all. And 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.920 that's kind of what I was getting at earlier about 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.520 leaving the door open. His family isn't saying they hate him, 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.200 just that they can't love him while he's busy hating 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:06.879 everyone else. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:13.000 The door is open. It's his choice. As C. S. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.359 Lewis said, the doors of hell are locked from the inside. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.080 And in the years since his father wrote that letter, 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.159 Peter Teft has continued to choose white nationalism over his family. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:40.040 Most of the white. 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.159 Supremacists I can think of whose families have publicly spoken 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:48.080 out against them are movement leaders. That's obviously because there 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.600 just aren't news stories about random racists getting disowned. It's 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.720 only in the news if the Nazi is newsworthy, and 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.639 most families wouldn't make a public announcement about it unless 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.520 the situation was already public against their will. So the 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.439 examples that come most readily to mind are people like 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:09.520 Don Black, William Luther Peers, and Jared Taylor. I will 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.320 at some point have to do some episodes about Don Black, 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:17.560 the klansman who founded the neo Nazi forum Stormfront. That's 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.560 going to be a whole ordeal. It's a very long story. 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.639 But when it comes to public disavowals of a racist parent, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.440 it's hard to beat the story of Adrianne Black. Her 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.520 recent book, The Klansman's Son is a fascinating read, and 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.600 I'll have to save the details for another day. But 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.720 she was as raised in the movement as it is 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.879 possible to be. Don Black was a movement leader, and 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.760 he was raising his son to be his successor. As 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.360 a child, Adrianne Black learned to code so she could 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.800 run the children's section of her father's Nazi website. She 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.520 attended conferences and rallies, and co hosted a Nazi radio 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:02.040 show with her father. She was a true believer until 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.760 she wasn't. She went away to college and met people 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:07.800 out in the real world that led her to question 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.880 the beliefs she'd been raised with, and then she publicly 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.760 denounced those beliefs in twenty thirteen in an open letter 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.880 published by the Southern Poverty Law Center. If you're looking 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.600 for her book, The Klansman's Son, it's published under her 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.320 former name R. 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:24.200 Derrick Black. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.240 The book was her public coming out as a transwoman. 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.879 William Luther Pierce, the founder of National Alliance and the 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.000 author of the Turner Diaries, had twin sons. One of 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.639 them is very private, but one of them, Kelvin Pierce, 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.720 published a memoir in twenty twenty called Sins of My Father, 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.240 and it is very much a personal memoir. It's about 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.639 his childhood and his recollection and the way he perceived 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.200 his father as a child. But it is a very 0:19:55.240 --> 0:20:01.720 clear picture a terrible man. Interesting that both Kelvin Pierce 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.720 and Adrianne Black pivoted from private reflection on their fathers 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:13.240 to loud public denunciation at around the same time. They 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.159 both point to the Unite the Right rally in twenty 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.560 seventeen and the election of Donald Trump in twenty sixteen 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:25.000 as turning points. Helen Pierce wrote in his book quote 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.040 the swastikas and flaming torches brought back so many memories, 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.440 such visceral feelings that I knew I had to speak 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.359 out about the racism still so deeply rooted in our society. 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.160 In a New York Times opinion piece published right after 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.800 the twenty sixteen election, Adrian Black wrote that after hearing 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.520 Trump's campaign launch speech, in which he called Mexican immigrants 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:51.240 rapists quote, I spent the rest of the election wondering 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.359 how much my movement had set the stage for his. 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.639 Now I see the anger I was raised with rocking 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:05.080 the nation. And then there's Jared Taylor. I've mentioned him 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:08.040 a handful of times in passing. He's the white supremacist 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:12.760 writer behind American Renaissance. His father's disavowal of his son's 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:17.639 beliefs was less public than entire memoirs written by Kelvin 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:23.040 Pears from Adrian Black, but it's worth mentioning. Jared Taylor's 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:27.320 parents were Presbyterian missionaries. His mother's described in an old 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:32.639 newspaper article as a diehard liberal. His father, Reverend Archibald Taylor, 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.120 told a newspaper in nineteen ninety six that he could 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.320 no longer discuss politics with his son, and the reverend 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.840 attempted to set up meetings between his son and black 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.280 civil rights leaders like Reverend Louis Coleman in the hopes 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.720 of changing his son's mind. That article from nineteen ninety 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.119 six doesn't say if that meeting actually took place, but 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.040 if it did, I don't think Jared Taylor learned anything 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:59.880 from it. Another chunk of the questions you all sent 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.439 in we're about the process. How do I pick a 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.960 weird little guy? Where do I start? How do I 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:12.800 organize my notes? The answer to this is embarrassing. I 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:14.680 mean to other people have a good answer for this. 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.960 Am I supposed to have a coherent process? There are 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.679 a whole university courses on things like research methodology, so 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.240 I guess there probably is a correct answer, But that's 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.399 not how I do things. I dropped out of college 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.679 because I'm not great at deadlines or following directions. So 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.160 I'm sure I missed some vital instruction on best practices 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:41.359 in research. No, I fear one of you hit on 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:46.320 the truth in your question. Someone submitted the question what 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:48.400 is the journey of finding a new weird little guy 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:49.680 to putting out a new episode? 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:52.160 Do you have a process or a flow chart. 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:54.280 Of sorts that you follow or do you just go 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:58.800 off vibes and end up with a finished product? It's vibes. 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:03.560 I'm so sorry, but it is just vibes. When I 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:06.760 was talking to those university students, I wanted so badly 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.159 to be able to offer them some kind of useful 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:11.040 advice for doing this kind of research. 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:13.919 But I have absolutely no idea. 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:15.800 How I could advise you to proceed with a similar 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:20.880 project because I have no idea what I'm doing as 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:25.080 far as topic selection. Months ago, when the show was 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:27.800 still really new, I was a little worried that I 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:29.400 might not be able to come up with a good 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:33.919 idea every single week. I know there are plenty of 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.119 weird little guys out there, sure, but how many of 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:40.199 them would make a good story. So I made a 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:44.760 list of potential episode ideas, and I've got fifty or 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.520 sixty potential episode topics on that list, and some of 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:50.560 them would definitely be multi episode arcs. 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:52.400 I mean, that's probably two years. 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:56.280 Worth of episodes on the list, and I've never once 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.639 pulled a single idea off that list to actually do 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:04.119 an episode about. I just sort of float down the 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.840 river of my curiosity, and whatever little fragment of an 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:10.840 idea I get stuck on ends up as the starting 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:16.720 point for an episode. It's a little chaotic. Back in December, 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:19.000 I was trying to do a couple of episodes about 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.960