1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: The Action Network Podcast. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 2: I'm just about that. Action mols. 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 3: Welcome into the Action Network Podcast. We are presented by 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 3: the FanDuel's Sportsbook. Your host today, Brendan glas Sheen. We 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 3: are here to provide a sports betting legalization update for 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 3: you folks. We'd like to do this once or twice 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 3: a year and give folks al a of the land 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 3: where the landscape is as it pertains to legal sports betting. 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 3: We've come a long way in five years. Maybe if 10 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 3: you're listening, your state has become legal in recent months, 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 3: in the last year or so. 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: But enough for me. 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 3: I'd like to welcome in two guests that can help 14 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 3: dive into this topic and give us a sense of 15 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 3: where we're at. First, we have Eric Raskin, Managing editor 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: media director at us bets dot Com, Jeff Edelstein, senior 17 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 3: analyst at Sports Handle, and these guys also work together. 18 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 3: They co host a podcast, gamble On Gamble On Podcast, 19 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 3: where they break down the nuts and bolts of what 20 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 3: we're going to talk about today, the legalization of sports betting. 21 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: So thank you for coming on. 22 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 3: We appreciate it, looking forward to this conversation and giving 23 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 3: folks an understanding of where we're at at this point 24 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 3: in early twenty twenty three, Eric, I'll start with you. 25 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 3: We'll start with an online perspective. Where are we at 26 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 3: in terms of fully online sports betting and where it's available? 27 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 4: So we are very rapidly nearing the halfway point. I 28 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 4: guess if we were not just fifty states, we're fifty 29 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 4: two territories if we count d C and Puerto Rico, 30 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 4: So sports betting is fully online in twenty five of 31 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 4: these fifty two twenty four states plus DC. 32 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: Then there are some additional ones. 33 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 4: Kentucky, Maine, and Puerto Rico have all legalized online sports betting, 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 4: but it's not yet up and running in any of 35 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 4: those places yet. So whichever the next one is, it's 36 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 4: going to take us to the halfway point twenty six 37 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 4: out of fifty two, which is not bad, I'd say 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 4: for five years. I don't know whether I people would 39 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 4: say that's ahead of or behind where they rejected things 40 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen, but I think if anything, probably given 41 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 4: how difficult it can be sometimes to pass some of 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 4: this legislation, I would say all in all, the sports 43 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 4: betting industry should feel pretty good about getting half the 44 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 4: states across the finish line within five years after pass. 45 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: But it's you know, it's obviously, and I'm sure we'll 46 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: touch on this at some point, it'd be nice to 47 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: get those big three, right, literally, the three biggest states 48 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: in the nation by population, you know, in California, Florida, 49 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: and Texas nowhere closer and in some cases maybe even 50 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: further away than we were at this point last year, 51 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 2: at least in the case of Florida and California. So 52 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 2: you know, those are the three big states that we're 53 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 2: going to be watching probably for another good two, three, 54 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 2: four or five years, don't you know. It could be 55 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: a while still. 56 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 4: I think we did have Florida for a brief moment there, 57 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 4: just long enough for Calvin Ridley to place a few 58 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 4: bets in Florida, unfortunately for him. 59 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: I think some folks like that that story is I mean, yes, 60 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 3: that was what a was that a two week period 61 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: or a one week period. I mean, he didn't waste 62 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 3: any time. 63 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 2: It wasn't long. It was a very brief moment in time, right. 64 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 3: God, well, so Florida is not on this list. When 65 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: I asked this next question, Jeff, So, how Jeff, where 66 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: are we as far as a tallly of states that 67 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: are up and running from a mobile. 68 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: Perspective, mobile and mobile should take yeah, mobile, and uh yeah, yeah, 69 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: we're up to thirty three plus DC and Puerto Rico. 70 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: So you know, there's a handful of states like Montana, Nebraska, 71 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: North Carolina, not North Carolina, uh, you know, but there's 72 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: a there's a handful of states where it's legal in 73 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: person but not yet legal online or never going to 74 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: be legal online at least for the you know, the 75 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: short term future, you know. And there's a few more 76 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: states that are going to be up and running as 77 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: as the as a calendar tick spy here this year. 78 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then North Carolina is one of those. You 79 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 4: were right the first time, Jeff that North Carolina has 80 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 4: retail but not they haven't quite legalized mobile yet. But 81 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: this is something Jeff and I have talked about a 82 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 4: bit on our podcast, just the speed at which it's 83 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 4: rolling out, the fact that so what are we at 84 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 4: that thirty three plus DC and Puerto Rico have something 85 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 4: up and running, So thirty five out of fifty two. 86 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 4: It's a good thing for us as people covering this 87 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 4: industry that we didn't get fifty states legalizing in the 88 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 4: first two or three years after pass but because then 89 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 4: we'd have nothing to talk about, nothing to cover on 90 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 4: a day to day basis. So it's kind of good. 91 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 4: Bad for the people in those states that haven't yet legalized, 92 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 4: that want to be able to play sports bets, but 93 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 4: good for us as journalists covering this industry that it's 94 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 4: been this sort of gradual rollout and we still have 95 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 4: a lot to talk about five years in. 96 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 3: So from an online and in person perspective. Now, I'm 97 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 3: trying to compartmentalize states that are that have good momentum 98 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 3: right now, and I think Eric, you had mentioned a 99 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: couple that are in that process, are in the pending 100 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 3: stages of becoming legal From a mobile perspective or an 101 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 3: in person perspective, what states have made the biggest legislative 102 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: moves here in the last year or so. 103 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, So there's a bunch. So the ones I mentioned 104 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 4: at the top where Kentucky, Maine, and Puerto Rico have 105 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 4: in fact fully legalized, they just haven't launched yet. But 106 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:35,239 Speaker 4: then there are some that are getting real close. Vermont 107 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 4: is one that stands out. Their legislative session runs until 108 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 4: May nineteenth. They have a bill there that has passed 109 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 4: the House, it's waiting on the Senate. Seems like the 110 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 4: sources on the ground in Vermont are feeling confident. They're 111 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 4: the last holdout state in New England that hasn't passed 112 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 4: anything yet, but they're suddenly getting very close. And then 113 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 4: the other one, South Carolina, as a bill in committee, 114 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 4: although it seems unlikely to actually get done this session, 115 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 4: but at least things are creeping along there. There are 116 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 4: a bunch of other ones that have made some moves 117 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 4: but are in that nor South Carolina category of not 118 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 4: feeling overly optimistic that they're getting it done on this try. 119 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 4: I guess the one other one to feel optimistic about 120 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 4: it is North Carolina, which Jeff had mentioned. They already 121 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 4: have retail betting at I believe it's three tribal casinos 122 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 4: in the state, but they don't yet have mobile betting. 123 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 4: But a bill there has cleared the House, and people 124 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 4: are optimistic that that could pass this year. They're in 125 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 4: session through the end of August, so they do have 126 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 4: some time to get that one done. 127 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: Jeff, anything to add on that. 128 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 2: Front, No, it's just, you know, it's the three states 129 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 2: that I mentioned at the top that, you know, in California, Texas, 130 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: and Florida. You know, California tried with a couple of 131 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 2: voter propositions, they failed miserably. Seems like the big stumbling 132 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: block there is the tribes want to keep it all 133 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: to themselves, you know, the operators want to peace. You know. 134 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of moving parts there. Florida there 135 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: in court again it's a tribal issue that's you know, 136 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: kind of start blocking things. Texas seems more of a 137 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: you know, like a culture clash a little bit where 138 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: there's a pretty large contingent of Republicans, including lieutenant governor, 139 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: who under no circumstances, want to see sports betting in 140 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: their state, Which tells you how if you know, just 141 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: when you thought Mark Cuban and Jerry Jones are the 142 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: two most powerful human beings on earth, you know, maybe 143 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: not so much. 144 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 4: You know, Texas is interesting just in that and the 145 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 4: culture situation there. I think with Southern states, not across 146 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 4: the board, but there is a commonality of you have 147 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 4: sort of cultural slash religious pushback in a lot of 148 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 4: Southern states that can make it difficult to get these 149 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 4: bills really moving. Texas obviously the biggest one of those. 150 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 4: But Georgia is another one that has tried and failed 151 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 4: year in and year out, and every year. I think, 152 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 4: you know, we have some colleagues who live in Georgia 153 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 4: and they get real optimistic and they think this is 154 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 4: going to be the year, and then for one political 155 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 4: reason or another, it doesn't go anywhere. I had mentioned 156 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 4: South Carolina as one that seems unlikely to get done. 157 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 4: There there are these we don't have that as much. 158 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 4: You know, I'm in Pennsylvania, Jeffson, New Jersey. Up here 159 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 4: in the northeast. There isn't that same level of culture 160 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 4: clash and the power of the religious faction to stand 161 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 4: in the way of these things. 162 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: Well, we're heathens. 163 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: There is that. 164 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 4: Throughout each of our states. Every single person is. 165 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: I'm from Massachusetts. So when Eric said the phrase this 166 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 3: is the year, it made me think of Jimmy Fallon 167 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 3: and fever Pitch when he's smelling the tickets the year 168 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 3: for the rest and Massachusetts had its bumps and bruises 169 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 3: going along the way to finally get legal as of 170 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: the I think, what was it fully mobile as of March, 171 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 3: and then fully legal I think a month before that 172 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 3: in February as far as the in person goes, and 173 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: then a month later they they got on the on 174 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: the mobile side of things. So so, Jeff, I want 175 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 3: to go to you on this because you referenced, or 176 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: maybe it was Eric, I apologize one of you mentioned 177 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: the like Texas for example, like they're not going near it, 178 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: and you've got a great sports uh conglomerate in Texas. 179 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: You got the you know, Cuban Jerry Jones, and you 180 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: have the college that the college aspect as well with 181 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 3: college football being so big there. We'll start with this 182 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 3: what states are are are operating with better's best interests? 183 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: And then I mean I would assume Texas would be 184 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 3: a good example of a state that's kind of fumbling 185 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: the bag here. 186 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: Jeff, Well, yeah, I mean by not offering it, Texas 187 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: is kind of fumbling fumbling the bag. But I think 188 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: states are doing it right. You can look at New Jersey, 189 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: you look at pennsylv you look at Colorado, you look 190 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: at Arizona. Basically you look at states that have really 191 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: opened up the uh you know, for the ability for 192 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: numerous online sports books to enter the market. New Jersey 193 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: of all of them all, might you know, I guess 194 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: I'm a homer here, but they might be doing it 195 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 2: the best out of them all, and that they they 196 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: have the some exchange betting sites up and running and 197 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: profit exchange and sport trade which offer you know, legitimately 198 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: better odds. And you know, the bottom line is this, 199 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: The more competition theoretically, the better for the customer. Right now, 200 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: many sports books you know, are operating on this you know, 201 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: so called European model where you know, they're they're people 202 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: are getting limited and people are being banned. But there's 203 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: enough sports books that aren't really doing that at a 204 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 2: high level, and there's some that won't ever do it. 205 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: Like we're waiting for Circa to come to New Jersey. 206 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: That's one that everyone like wants to see happen here. 207 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, states where they have opened it up and 208 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 2: allowed the competition almost by definition, are the ones doing 209 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 2: it good. On the flip side of that, the ones 210 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 2: doing it bad. You mentioned Tennessee. I think earlier. Tennessee's 211 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: not doing it great because right now the law demands 212 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: a ten percent hold, which is insane? Is that is 213 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: that a pharisae eric? Is that? 214 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: Like? 215 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 2: I mean, they're the only ones like that, even sniff 216 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: something like this. 217 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember when they were first tossing around that 218 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 4: idea that the sports books in Tennessee had to hold 219 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: at least ten percent in order to not get fined 220 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 4: and penalized, And it just struck everyone who understands sports 221 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 4: betting as absurd. You can't gary short of you know, 222 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 4: if you're running slot machines, you can, I suppose set 223 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 4: them up to guarantee an over ten percent hold in 224 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 4: terms of the return to player. But with sports betting, 225 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 4: how do you controlled that? 226 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: And so. 227 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 4: It's created this situuation where there's always concern that they're 228 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 4: going to have to give the customers worse odds that 229 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 4: if you're placing a parlay in Tennessee, maybe they're gouging 230 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 4: you that much more. And you can't see it baked 231 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 4: into the numbers to make sure that Tennessee comes out ahead. 232 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 4: And I don't think they've run into any issues so 233 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 4: far in terms of actually hitting that hold, although maybe 234 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 4: a couple of sportsbooks have had to pay a one 235 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 4: month penalty here or there. 236 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: You will see, yeah, I'm just saying you will see 237 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 2: minus like one seventeen sides in Tennessee, you know, which 238 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: is obviously terrible, you know, but I mean it's it's 239 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: you know, these books have to hit their number. And 240 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 2: then the other states that aren't doing great are the 241 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 2: polar opposite of what I was saying earlier with states 242 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: that give you a lot of opportunities, a lot of choices. 243 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: You know, DC only has Gambet. I mean, that's been 244 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: a disaster. Like they put out a press release during 245 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: the Super Bowl highlighting the fact that they didn't have 246 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 2: any glitches. I mean, it's a pretty low bar. And 247 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: then there's states like it's like New Hampshire, it's it's 248 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: one horse downs, It's it's DraftKings and that's it. You know, 249 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: they are the ones who made the deal. And so 250 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: you know you're only getting you know, you're only getting 251 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: one option U, and so you know that that to me, 252 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: you know, it's that's the big deal. Eric, I mean, 253 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 2: I know Eric was talking about that you had mentioned 254 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 2: in private conversations. Right New York. 255 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 4: Right, New York is an unusual one in that because 256 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 4: of the extraordinary tax rate there, the fifty one percent 257 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 4: tax rate, everything started out great. You know, the people 258 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 4: were were signing up and getting these tremendous bonus offers 259 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: to sign up, and you had room for nine sports books, 260 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: which I think is enough to satisfy a Jeff's need 261 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 4: for competition and options. It's not quite as many as 262 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 4: New Jersey, where you can get over twenty, but you know, 263 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 4: at nine is reasonable enough. But because of that tax rate, 264 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 4: it's just made it really difficult for sports books to 265 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 4: be profitable. I mean, you know, FanDuel, the national market leader, 266 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 4: seems to be doing just find a New York. 267 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: There are a. 268 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 4: Couple others keeping their head above water, but it sure 269 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 4: feels like because of that tax rate, you're not going 270 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 4: to have nine books sustain in New York over the 271 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 4: long term. It's probably going to end up consolidating down 272 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 4: to about four or five that survive. And once it 273 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 4: gets to that point, that doesn't give the customer a 274 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: whole lot of options to just have four or five 275 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 4: major sports books to choose from, and none of the 276 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 4: small ones survive. 277 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 3: So the number one factor, based on what I've heard, 278 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 3: is just availability. Availability of number of books is the 279 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 3: key component when you answer this kind of question, I. 280 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: Think that's where it starts. 281 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, certainly, I mean, if we were using Texas as 282 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 4: the launching off point where you have zero. So that's 283 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 4: that's the worst case scenarios, an obvious one. Your state 284 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 4: hasn't launched yet, but if they have, Yeah, those states 285 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 4: where there's just one sports book. This is something that 286 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 4: Jeff always says, and it's not just a New Jersey 287 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 4: homer thing. I don't think. I think it's a sensible thing. 288 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: Why doesn't everyone just follow what New Jersey did? They 289 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 4: got in first. Now you can tweak it a little. 290 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 4: Their tax rate is perhaps too low. I think you 291 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 4: could make the case that for the good of the 292 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 4: for the good of the state, you'd like a slightly 293 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 4: higher tax rate so that the state itself is making 294 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 4: more money. But aside from that, and what New Jersey's 295 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 4: tax rate, I think it's like eight point five percent 296 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 4: on retail and twelve percent online somewhere in that neighborhood. 297 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 4: It's so much lower than most states. That aside, New 298 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 4: Jersey has a lot of regulations that just make sense, 299 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 4: and they laid out the blueprint, and then these other 300 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 4: states come online and the politicians want to all get 301 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 4: their finger in there and reinvent the wheel, and you 302 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 4: end up with states like Tennessee doing these really funky things. 303 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: So similar to the question I asked about momentum for 304 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: states just making legislative moves to become legal in person 305 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 3: or mobile. Are there any states, though, that are making 306 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: progress to better their availability that you would rank higher 307 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: than others? 308 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: Jeff, not really. Tennessee does of a bill that would 309 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: get rid of the ten percent hold regulation, replace it 310 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: with for the sports books and equally horrifying tax on handle, 311 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: you know, which would be bad if they have a 312 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: losing month, obviously they'd be getting hit both sides. But yeah, 313 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not Maybe Eric can can top it here, 314 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: but I'm not familiar with any states looking to make 315 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: any significant changes as it stands right now. 316 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 4: No, I mean New York loaded the idea shortly after launch. 317 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 4: They had a bill introduced. I don't think it went 318 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 4: very far. So they had room for nine sports books, 319 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 4: but if they had allowed more, it would have lowered 320 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 4: the tax rate, and so Joe Adabo, the state senator there, 321 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 4: started to try to eken that direction to welcome more books, 322 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 4: but that got trashed. I think that they basically sort 323 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 4: of realized even to have the nine that they had, 324 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 4: with some of them struggling to really make money. It 325 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 4: didn't make sense at that point to expand and then 326 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 4: this goes into a whole separate topic. But now Joe 327 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 4: Adabo has focused his attention on trying to get online 328 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 4: casino legalized in New York, which is the follow up 329 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 4: to sports betting in a lot of states that eventually 330 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 4: we're going to see these online casino floodgates open up, 331 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 4: and that's where the biggest money is to be made 332 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 4: for the operators. 333 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: You both have discussed odds. 334 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 3: I'm curious, like New York, for example, you can't bet awards, 335 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 3: So I'm now now I'm asking about markets. Any insight 336 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 3: on markets in New York specifically, that's one that I 337 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 3: running in. We do shows here all the time, NFL, UFC, 338 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 3: major League Baseball. 339 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 2: NBA, and you go right down the list. 340 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 3: We cover it all here at Action Network. But when 341 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 3: we dive in and we've got some of our contributors 342 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 3: are based in New York or New Jersey doesn't fit this, 343 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 3: but New York. He can't bet a war. I'm just 344 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 3: curious from a market perspective. Now we're getting into the 345 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 3: real nitty gritty. Any update there if New York might 346 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 3: sway in on the awards front. 347 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 4: I haven't heard anything about them considering changing that rule. 348 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 4: I'm in Pennsylvania, where it's we have the same rule. 349 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 4: We can't cut the awards here either. There's also a 350 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 4: sort of an interesting rule in Pennsylvania that a few 351 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 4: other states have we can't bet college player props. And 352 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 4: I'm not sure I can't recall if New York has 353 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 4: that same thing. The Massachusetts Massachusetts is yeah, which to 354 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 4: an extent makes some sense. If you are worried about 355 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 4: the morality and the ability to influence the athletes from 356 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 4: the money coming in that maybe there's a line to 357 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 4: be drawn there of you can bet on college teams, 358 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 4: but once you can start betting on individual players, maybe 359 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 4: it opens things up to that little bit more risk. 360 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 4: I'm not saying that that is or isn't the case, 361 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 4: but I think it's a reasonable stance. 362 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: To take that. 363 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 4: Maybe that's a reasonable line to draw of no college 364 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 4: player props, but it is as a better in a 365 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 4: state with with that restriction, it basically kills same game 366 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 4: parlays on coge games. For me, if I can't do 367 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 4: any player props, how am I going to be? You know, 368 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 4: all I can build is a point total and and 369 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 4: a spread barlay and that's not a lot of fun. 370 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 3: Right, Anything to add Jeff on that front. 371 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: Just well, yeah, I mean as far as I know. 372 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I think the award markets, like the oscars, 373 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: I think there's only like four or five states, New Jersey, Colorado, Indiana, Louisiana, surprisingly. 374 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: And Michigan maybe has it. 375 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 2: I believe Michigan might. I can't. I can't keep it straight. 376 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: But it's not a lot and a lot of places. 377 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: You know. It's also like the you know, the player 378 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 2: award stuff. Not every state allows those markets as well. 379 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd like to see more of that stuff. 380 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 2: I think it makes it pretty interesting. I mean, there 381 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 2: was like there was like this scuttle but that the 382 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 2: WWE was seeking to like get betting on their matches legalized. 383 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 2: This was before I was announced that, you know, they 384 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: were merging with the UFC. I wouldn't be surprised if well, 385 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: I think a lot of these things. Colorado I think 386 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 2: is really at the vanguard this. Arizona. Also Arizona, for 387 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: a hot minute, they allowed betting on political markets, which 388 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 2: is like as gray and gray area as you can get. 389 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 2: They I think they did it in error, so they 390 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: pulled it back. But Arizona is pretty wide open too 391 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 2: when it comes to some of these betting markets. And 392 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 2: so I think Colorado and Arizona, you know, the wild 393 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: West as it were, are are really the ones to 394 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 2: keep an eye on because I think, you know, basically 395 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 2: from what it comes down to, these states at this point, 396 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 2: they they wait for the operators to come to them 397 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: when it comes to opening up new markets. It's not 398 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: like a legislator is sitting around saying, hey, let's open 399 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 2: up the oscar markets. You know, it's it's the operators 400 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,719 Speaker 2: going directly to the the you know, the state regulatory boards. 401 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: And as again, Colorado and Arizona have been very welcoming 402 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: to a lot of different ideas. So I think, you know, 403 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 2: those are the states that keep an eye on as 404 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: far as like extending like what you kind of camp down, 405 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: because I mean, you could put on the oscars, but 406 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: I don't think you could beut on the Emmies or 407 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 2: the Grammys. I don't think in any state currently. But 408 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 2: which surprises me because why not you? 409 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 4: And it does seem also the states that allow that 410 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 4: sort of thing. 411 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:08,479 Speaker 1: Am I right? 412 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 4: Jeff, they have fairly low limits on how much you 413 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 4: can bet on the Oscars, at least relative to sports. 414 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: It would certainly seem that way. I mean, you know 415 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: that I have definitely run into a couple of two 416 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 2: or three dollars limits when trying to get some money 417 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: down on a Lady Gaga to win Best Supporting Actors, 418 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 2: which I'm glad I got busted. She wasn't even nominated. 419 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 4: That shows you how far out ahead of these things 420 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 4: Jeff is he likes to bet the Oscars markets before 421 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 4: the nominations even come out. 422 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: Hey, listen, I had everything everywhere at plus fourteen hundred. 423 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 2: Come on, that's you know, anything I can afford this 424 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: beautiful office. 425 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 3: Look well, as we sit here today mid April, I 426 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 3: think it's a fascinating topic because of how the NBA 427 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 3: MVP market has shifted in the last month or two 428 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 3: based on Embiid and Jokic, and Joannis has of course 429 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 3: got his name in the mix probably every year now 430 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 3: going forward. And then the other one that's really relevant 431 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 3: now is the NFL Draft coming up in a couple 432 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 3: of weeks right where like that's been fascinating to follow, 433 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 3: and news of course is a bit is a market 434 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: that could It's not just results oriented news reports that 435 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: come out shift those things. So I'm just I wanted 436 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 3: to dive into that intricacy because I just think it's 437 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,239 Speaker 3: I think folks are interested, especially folks that don't have 438 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 3: that available to them in their respective states. So we'll 439 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 3: wrap on this. This is a This is more of 440 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 3: a big picture topic, and this is the one that 441 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 3: I'm really interested in, and I think the audience will 442 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,239 Speaker 3: be as well. We'll go to Eric first here, just 443 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: where do you see, like we've used, you know, five 444 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 3: years into this, where do we see the industry headed 445 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: at this point? And how do you feel the direction 446 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 3: has shifted changed? How does it feel in terms of 447 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 3: a direction we're heading in maybe than a year ago now. 448 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 4: So a couple of things that stand out to me 449 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 4: are are just in terms of where we're headed. The 450 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 4: growth we've seen through these first five years. Obviously, it 451 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 4: has to tail off at a certain point in terms 452 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 4: of the number of states that cut. You know, if 453 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 4: you can get twenty five states across the finish line 454 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 4: in five years, you're not going to keep going at 455 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 4: a five state per year pace indefinitely, or even at 456 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 4: all at this point. It's now it's like maybe three 457 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 4: states this year, maybe two states the next year. So 458 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 4: the exponential growth we're going to keep growing, it won't 459 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 4: be as exponential just from a legalization standpoint. 460 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: Just it's a numbers game. You can. 461 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 4: The bigger picture thing that I would foresee happening, I 462 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 4: don't know if it'll be in the next year necessarily, 463 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 4: maybe more long range than that, But I had dropped 464 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 4: the term consolidation earlier. I think we're going to see 465 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 4: more and more consolidation of sports books, with the big 466 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 4: books at the top winning out and the medium to 467 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 4: smaller books getting swallowed up. That you know, how many 468 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 4: different operators do we have nationwide right now? Twenty something 469 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 4: that operate in one state or another. If I had 470 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 4: to guess five years from now, I would imagine we'll 471 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 4: have like half that number that It's just these these 472 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 4: the smaller fish swimming in this ocean just aren't aren't 473 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 4: going to survive with the way that it's currently set up. 474 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 4: That would be the big trend I think to look 475 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 4: for going forward to a few years down the road, 476 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 4: is you know, will we ever get like the FanDuel 477 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 4: and DraftKings merge together into one absolute giant. Maybe not, 478 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 4: but could Fanduels swallow up I'm just throwing out there 479 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 4: hypothetical FanDuel swallows up a points bet, DraftKings and wind 480 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 4: Bet come together, and before you know it, we're down 481 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 4: to like three or four at the top and nothing underneath. 482 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 3: So it's like forming super teams in actual sports. 483 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 4: Essentially, you've got you've got the Phoenix Suns and and 484 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 4: you've got the Warriors of the Past or whatever, and 485 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: meanwhile down there, the Charlotte Hornets aren't sticking around. We've 486 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 4: seen with some of these smaller sports books that you 487 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 4: can't just roll out of bed and decide you want 488 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 4: to open a sports book and know how to do 489 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,959 Speaker 4: everything that the bigger books, the ones that have been 490 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 4: at it for a while, particularly the ones that were 491 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 4: operating in the DFS space beforehand and really knew what 492 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 4: they were doing. It's easy to go on to some 493 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 4: of these books, sign up, get your account started, get 494 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 4: it funded. There are other sports books that you know 495 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 4: you're jumping through hoops just to try to get your 496 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 4: accounts started. The user experience, the smoothness between some of 497 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 4: the bigger books and the smaller books. So it's not 498 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 4: just that the bigger books will have the advantage of 499 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 4: the marketing and the funding to succeed, but it's also 500 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 4: just the experience, the size of the staff running it 501 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 4: that sometimes creates a big difference between the haves and 502 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 4: the have nots within the industry. 503 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 2: Product matters, you know, it really does in this industry, 504 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: you know, the ease of being able to like, you know, 505 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 2: go from screen to screen or like easily find where 506 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 2: the player props are FanDuel DraftKings. You know, they're at 507 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: the top in many cases for that reason, Like some 508 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 2: of these books, it's it's maddening to try to, like 509 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: through the screens. It's maddening to try to find what 510 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: you're looking for. There. There's no real good order that 511 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 2: things are presented in. Product does matter a. 512 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 3: Lot, Jeff, anything to add there as far as where 513 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 3: we're heading here for the industry. 514 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: You know, over the course of the last four or 515 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 2: five months, the headwinds have turned dramatically against sports betting. 516 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 2: It started really with the New York Times hit piece 517 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 2: We'll call it concerning you know how you know, lobbyists 518 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: and politicians work together, specifically in the sports betting industry 519 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: to get laws passed. There has just been a rash 520 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 2: of anti sports betting opinion pieces, anti sports advertising bills, 521 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 2: you know, from the state to the federal level. You know, 522 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: I just wrote a story where Michigan State professors use 523 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 2: the mass shooting at that school to compare to like 524 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 2: the safe you know, keeping their students safe from the 525 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: dangers of sports betting. We've got, We've hit kind of 526 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 2: like a bit of an hysterical stage. You would think 527 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 2: it was like, you know, worts betting industry was Genghis 528 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 2: Khan and the Mongolian hordes, you know, coming at you here. 529 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 2: It's not, we know that, But I think the industry 530 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 2: does need to weather this run of negative press that 531 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: it's been getting, uh the most, with the most important 532 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 2: thing being a bill that, like everyone in the industry 533 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: is kind of scoffing at, a federal bill from a 534 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: New York legislator Tonko's his name, that would seek to 535 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 2: ben sportsbook advertising much in the same way that like 536 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 2: cigarette advertising is severely limited, nobody really thinks going to happen. Obviously, 537 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 2: getting anything done in DC is you know a heavy 538 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: lift these days. But you know, a few a few 539 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: high profile negative sports betting outcomes right now, right would 540 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 2: be very damaging I think to the you know, general 541 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: health of the industry. So I think that, you know it, 542 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 2: I think it behooves the operators right now to kind 543 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: of just take a little bit of a step back 544 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: when it comes to like, you know, being as in 545 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: there in our faces as they have in the last 546 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 2: few years. Kind of reminiscent going back to twenty fifteen 547 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 2: when draftings and fan will run in DFS commercials. You know, 548 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 2: I think they set you know, literally set records for 549 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: spend ad spends that year. So yeah, I just think that, 550 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 2: you know, the the industry's facing some negative press that 551 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 2: it really wasn't getting its first few years, and you know, 552 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 2: i'd like to see it whether that's storm as we 553 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 2: as we move forward. 554 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, And to plug a piece that I wrote last week, 555 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 4: I think that the the theoretical potential existential threat to 556 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 4: the industry that I think much more potentially damaging than 557 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 4: responsible gambling problems or in excess of advertising or whatever 558 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 4: else the legislators are focused on, is this trend we're 559 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 4: seeing of aggrieved sports betters lashing out at athletes online 560 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,239 Speaker 4: in person, the Bradley Beal incident where someone says it's 561 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 4: gonna cross me thirteen hundred bucks, that he bill takes 562 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 4: a swipe at him, and it's a whole mess. The 563 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 4: worst example that we've seen so far was that guy 564 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 4: Benjamin Parlay Pats who may actually made online threats to 565 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,239 Speaker 4: a bunch of baseball players and was prosecuted for it. 566 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 4: That's the worst we've seen so far. Hopefully that is 567 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 4: as bad as it gets. But should anything worse than 568 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 4: that ever happen? Should some sports better actually get violent 569 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 4: toward an athlete. I think that's the biggest threat to 570 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 4: the industry. That's when you'll see the politicians trip over 571 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 4: each other, racing for the soapbox to say ban this industry. 572 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 4: It's horrible for everyone. 573 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 3: Well, and the other news worthy element sort of to 574 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 3: piggyback off you. The Commanders will have in person betting 575 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: at their stadium for this coming season. I think I 576 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 3: think that's happening correct. 577 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 4: Right, they have a sports but so yeah, like in Arizona, 578 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 4: there's a worts book that's not quite connected to the stadium, 579 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 4: but it basically is on the stadium grounds. And yeah, 580 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 4: the Commanders are putting the one in the stadium, and yeah, look, 581 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 4: there's a potentially dangerous toxic combination of at a game, alcohol, 582 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 4: money on the game. You know, things can get ugly, 583 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 4: and it's just important for the responsible gambling messaging to 584 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 4: get out there and for of course people to I 585 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 4: don't know how in twenty twenty three that there's any 586 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 4: much point in me telling people behave yourselves, better, be 587 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 4: a decent human, be mature, don't scream at athletes online. 588 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 4: But that's you know that it is a threat to 589 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 4: the industry if something like that happens. 590 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 3: So another layer that we need to peel off from 591 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: the idea of operators and state governments. So this kind 592 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 3: of ties back into whether a state wants to go 593 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 3: in the direction of legalizing sports betting in their state 594 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 3: and thinking of the better's best interests. We don't talk 595 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 3: a whole lot about the black market. Are regulators and 596 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 3: state governments considering it all? How do we outplay or 597 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 3: weigh down the impact of the black markets? 598 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what you see in most states when 599 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 4: bills are being introduced, and the people behind the bills 600 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 4: usually get that point across, or attempt to get that 601 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 4: point across, that people in our state are betting anyway, 602 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 4: it's up to us to make sure that they're doing 603 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 4: it safely under regulation here within the state by us 604 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 4: legalizing it, that they're not using offshore sports books, that 605 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 4: they're not still going to their bookies. We want to 606 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 4: give them that alternative to hopefully keep it in states, 607 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 4: and then we as a state can get the tax 608 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 4: dollars from it. That's the when you know it spoke 609 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 4: about how there's sometimes a cultural or religious pushback against legalizing. 610 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 4: You have to communicate to the people who are opposed 611 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 4: to it that it is happening anyway. We're just trying 612 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 4: to put it, bring it out into the open, out 613 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 4: of the shadows, make it safer, and you're not just 614 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 4: those legislators in favor of sports betting aren't just posing 615 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 4: the problem of the black market as an alternative. But 616 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 4: in a lot of states you see them posing. Like 617 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 4: here in Missouri where we haven't legalized yet, people are 618 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 4: driving right across the border into any of these five 619 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 4: states that border US that have legal sports betting, and 620 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 4: they're siphoning our tax dollars. So that's all part of 621 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 4: the argument for legalizing is one way or another our 622 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 4: citizens are doing it, we should be making money off 623 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 4: of it. 624 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 3: Jeff and Eric, give me your last two states that 625 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 3: will legalize sports betting. 626 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 2: Jeff go, that's got to be Utah and Idaho. Zero 627 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 2: chance there, and I'll. 628 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: Go Utah and Alaska. 629 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 3: Eric Raskin managing out of their media director us bets 630 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 3: dot Com. He just mentioned he has his latest column 631 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 3: is up as well as should check it out and 632 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 3: Jeff Edelstein, senior analyst at Sports Handled. Gentlemen, thanks so much, 633 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 3: thanks for stopping by. 634 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: This was great. 635 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 3: Thank you, Brandon, thank you all right for Jeff Eedlstein, 636 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 3: Eric Raskin, Brendan glass Sheen, thanks for tuning into the 637 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 3: Action Network podcast. Your latest in sports betting legalization. The 638 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 3: Action Network Podcast presented by FanDuel. We'll talk to you 639 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 3: again real soon. 640 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly. If you or 641 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: someone you care about has a gambling problem, help is 642 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: available twenty four to seven at one eight hundred Gambler