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Speaker 1: Look, may oh, I see you my own look over

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Speaker 1: there is that culture. Yes, goodness, lost culture, dang dong

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Speaker 1: lost culture. Esta is calling. Now I have to really

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Speaker 1: check in with you because you are, as of two

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Speaker 1: days ago, officially a New York again. Yeah, it's now happened.

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Speaker 2: Happened, but I will say the thing about moving is

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Speaker 2: then you have to like do that process. And I

8
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Speaker 2: can't believe what I'm finding in my closet. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: one of my best friends, Melissa, came over and we

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Speaker 2: went through all of my clothes and really really really said,

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Speaker 2: doesn't spark joy? I guess we did like a marine,

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Speaker 2: so much of my ship did not spark joy. It's okay,

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, all this stuff that I was around

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Speaker 2: didn't spark joy, and it literally was You'll find it

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Speaker 2: weighs you down, like have you done like a deep

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Speaker 2: like donation moment.

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Speaker 1: Like a quarterly purge, and it's krilled not enough. No,

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Speaker 1: it's still not enough, and it's I don't consider myself

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Speaker 1: someone who like shops egregiously. I guess like we've all

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Speaker 1: been made to be like I guess I need that

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Speaker 1: just because it's like you hit a call to action

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Speaker 1: and then you head ad to card and it's in.

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Speaker 2: It's you know what it is for me, It's like

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Speaker 2: stuff you accumulate at things where they like give you

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Speaker 2: a shirt. It's like, oh no, I need that Yankees

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Speaker 2: Pride shirt. Oh no, I need that that shirt that says,

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Speaker 2: like that niche phrase that I'm into this week.

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Speaker 1: I found a shirt the other day that.

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Speaker 2: I got from It was from the game show writer's

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Speaker 2: room and it said you want to fuck me Barbara

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Speaker 2: Notes on a scandal, which literally there would have been

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Speaker 2: one time to wear it, and it's when we had

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Speaker 2: Kate Blanchett on this podcast and I do dare do it.

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Speaker 2: So I gotta say thank you to the writer's room

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Speaker 2: of a game show for that gift.

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Speaker 1: But it's gone. It had to go in the Murray Condo. Move. Hey,

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Speaker 1: that's okay. Now, would you I'm gonna posit something, okay?

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Speaker 1: Would you be okay with me? Let's say, looking at

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Speaker 1: a shirt that says you're Lisa Barlow, I care a

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Speaker 1: lot for me too, shirt, not that I've done this?

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Speaker 1: Would you be okay with me disposing? I just got

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Speaker 1: rid of it, that's okay?

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Speaker 2: And I thought to myself because when you're on like

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Speaker 2: the I remember watching I think probably was watching Salt

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Speaker 2: Lake City Housewives.

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Speaker 1: She said, what was it?

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Speaker 2: She said? She said, care about me too, No, I

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Speaker 2: feel for me. To feel for me, I feel for

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Speaker 2: me too. And at the moment I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 2: that's amazing. You go on you know whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: like Etsy or whatever, and there it is is a

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Speaker 2: shirt and you say, well, I gotta buy that, and.

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Speaker 1: Go on Red Bubble. It's there.

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Speaker 2: If you buy every piece of merch that has a

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Speaker 2: Cute Housewives saying you're gonna be living in shit, and

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Speaker 2: that is rural culture number forty. If you buy every

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Speaker 2: piece of merchant cute Housewives saying you're gonna be living

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Speaker 2: in shit, and I've been living in shit, and I

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Speaker 2: tell you I can breathe again.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that nice? Yes?

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Speaker 2: And Quarterly I'm gonna pick that up from Quarterly is nice.

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Speaker 1: And it's just nice to be back in New York

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Speaker 1: when you have sort of dusted off the internal cobwebs

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Speaker 1: for yourself, like I hope it feels frustrated with we're

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Speaker 1: getting some rain today, you know what.

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Speaker 2: I was moving in the rain yesterday and they had

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Speaker 2: closed down my street because of a bicycle race.

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Speaker 1: And I said, you know what, Matt, you wanted New

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Speaker 1: York back. You're getting it back.

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Speaker 2: That's what it's all about. And I'm rappy, I'm thrilled.

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Speaker 2: I love my new place. It's still slowly coming together

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Speaker 2: as it's the process, but like returning to New York.

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Speaker 2: And we were just talking to our guests about this,

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Speaker 2: because our guest is an iconic New Yorkers, she has

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Speaker 2: a prodigal return. Fact fantastic a book. Yes, the new

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Speaker 2: book is actually it's not only very much like the

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Speaker 2: definitive I would say biography on Marsha P. Johnson, but

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Speaker 2: also this is a book about this is a queer

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Speaker 2: history of New York. Yeah, and that is something that

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Speaker 2: I really loved about it. And we were just saying

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Speaker 2: before we got on, like specifically this area, you know,

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Speaker 2: your Christopher Street, your West Village, your your Stone Wall area,

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Speaker 2: like we have so much personal history there and I'm

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Speaker 2: so proud to have that history. And reading this book

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Speaker 2: made me so proud.

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Speaker 1: She has such a deep history with this part of town.

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Speaker 1: Truly definitive, which I want to talk about this because yes,

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Speaker 1: there's like a Nashville vocation of the West Village that's

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Speaker 1: happening right now, and I would love to talk about this,

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Speaker 1: but we should talk about it. Our guest is a

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Speaker 1: filmmaker and artist, one of the great queer archivists that

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Speaker 1: we have. I reached out to her for the first

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Speaker 1: time because I was reading Faggets in The Friends Between

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Speaker 1: Revolutions and you wrote such a beautiful introduction to that,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I have to reach out to her,

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Speaker 1: like this is one of the most beautiful pieces of

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Speaker 1: queer writing that I've ever read, and I think I

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Speaker 1: DMed you, and then I was like, Hi, I'm just

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Speaker 1: like a fan, like you wrote such a beautiful thing.

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Speaker 1: And then when when it was announced that you were

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Speaker 1: writing like the kind of the first the first ever,

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Speaker 1: the first ever Johnson biography, I got so excited. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm so glad this worked out so that you

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Speaker 1: were on.

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Speaker 2: The book is Marsha The Joy and Defiance of Marsha P.

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Speaker 2: Johnson A twenty. It's just one of the most important

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Speaker 2: icons we've had in our history. And to know that

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Speaker 2: such an exhaustive, brilliant piece of writing now exists, it's

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Speaker 2: just beautiful and we are so proud to welcome you

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Speaker 2: to the podcasts tormally.

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Speaker 4: Bye. Thank you both for having me so much.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really excited to dig into it. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's not just Marcia, it's that area. You bring it

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Speaker 3: to life beautifully.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I have spent so much time on

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Speaker 3: Christopher Street. I started going there as a teenager when

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Speaker 3: I was at Columbia, taking that slow one train down

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Speaker 3: and that's where I found my people. That's where I

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Speaker 3: found like queer, transgender, not conforming young people just taking

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Speaker 3: up space. We were turning up the volume in of

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Speaker 3: our life, like we were being all of who we were,

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Speaker 3: and also we were getting you know, noise and resistance.

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Speaker 3: The people who lived there weren't into us, the police

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Speaker 3: weren't into us. And yet, similar to Marcia, that was

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Speaker 3: just a jumping off point for turning up the volume more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful way to put it though. It's really beautiful. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like if you're lucky in life, like it's just a

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Speaker 1: big opportunity to just like gradually turn up the dial

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Speaker 1: or have someone like knock it down and then you

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Speaker 1: just keep turning it the other way. Wait, wait, I

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Speaker 1: need to know about the the commute from Columbia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the one train commute pre iPhone just long. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's just but you know I was saying before, like

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Speaker 3: I live in Miami right now, and I drive up

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Speaker 3: to Disney World all the time because that's like my

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Speaker 3: place of But commuting for me is a place where

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Speaker 3: I find clarity. It's like I fall into the day dream.

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Speaker 3: I fall into the imagination as an artist. You know,

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Speaker 3: some of us have studios, but for me, like New

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Speaker 3: York City was my studio and the subway train was

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Speaker 3: my place of like rest and rest.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I still get my best reading, not on

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Speaker 1: the trade, Yes I got. I think I read most

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Speaker 1: of the book on the train.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt right. Yeah, I did feel like it

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Speaker 1: was connected and rooted in this whole. Like oh, like

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Speaker 1: I'm I am a citizen, a denizen of the city absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and like I am I'm part of this grand fabric

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Speaker 1: of people. And like you would pass literally the Sheridan

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Speaker 1: Square stop, yeah, like I would be on the one

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Speaker 1: and like past shared in square is like it all

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Speaker 1: happened upstairs.

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Speaker 3: Literally, And Marcia, I have a dear friend Augusta Machado

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Speaker 3: who is part of the Angels of Light, Hot Peaches,

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Speaker 3: early drag culture, and right and Augusto talks about how

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Speaker 3: Marcia would be above the Christopher Street stop and be

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Speaker 3: a symbol for anyone who this is like the early sixties,

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Speaker 3: right seventies, a symbol for anyone who is coming from

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Speaker 3: a place where they had to turn.

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Speaker 4: Down the volume.

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Speaker 3: Right when they saw Marcia, they knew all of them

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Speaker 3: was welcome in that space. And then so that goes

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Speaker 3: to what you're saying, it's like it happened right above us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you ascend, it's like it's like it's

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Speaker 1: like what you see, you see that, you see the vision.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you write like so vividly about, you know,

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Speaker 2: the time, like I'm in reading about the Stonewall riots,

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Speaker 2: like it's it's just you forget when you're there now,

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Speaker 2: or like maybe it's more top of mine now as

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Speaker 2: things get, you know, more tense, and over the past

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Speaker 2: few years, things get more difficult. But it's so you

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Speaker 2: read about the violence in that area, Yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: associate it with so much joy and it is all

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Speaker 2: of those things, and you write so beautifully about like

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Speaker 2: Marcia's lack of correct recollection also speaking to the fact

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Speaker 2: that she is in that way, like a living document

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Speaker 2: and it is all those things.

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Speaker 1: So it's really.

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Speaker 2: Kind of it's important, I think, to realize like as

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Speaker 2: you walk around with that joy, it does hold that history.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and like trauma shapes our memory, right, Like

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Speaker 3: there's so many beautiful writings and teachings about how violence

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Speaker 3: and trauma affect not just you know, like how we

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Speaker 3: feel about ourselves, but how we recall ourselves in our community.

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Speaker 3: And so Marcia talked about that really beautifully. She talked

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Speaker 3: about being lost in the music. Right, there's this beautiful

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Speaker 3: clip where she's being interviewed in the basement of a

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Speaker 3: West Village house and she's talking about being lost in

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Speaker 3: the music ever since the nineteen sixty nine Stone Wall

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Speaker 3: ryots and she couldn't remember what date, you know, first

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Speaker 3: she's talking about the seventies, and then like nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 3: and then she's like lost in the music the Stone Wall,

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Speaker 3: and then she recalled Marvin Gaye heard her through the

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Speaker 3: grape vine, Ryan, and that was the music playing on

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Speaker 3: the jukebox when the police raided Stone Wall.

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Speaker 4: And so it's this beautiful malleable.

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Speaker 3: Like kind of piscy and she was a virgo, but

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Speaker 3: this piscy and way, you know, are you your.

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Speaker 4: Cancer?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god? That always god was oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that's so funny. We don't want to try I want

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Speaker 1: to try that ad a lot.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, well that took it to the next novel,

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Speaker 3: next level.

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Speaker 1: But her her sort of reconceiving that moment is piscing

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Speaker 1: in the sense that it's just like, but you know what,

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Speaker 1: because it's trauma shapes's memory, but like that memory for her,

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Speaker 1: like she's you. You write about how she kind of

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Speaker 1: like conflicts that with her birthday exactly, and it's like

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Speaker 1: still joyful in this way.

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Speaker 3: And it's a birthing too, like Stonewall birth a new

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Speaker 3: era for her and so many Right, it was a

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Speaker 3: moment where three articles of law, three articles of clothing laws. Right,

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Speaker 3: the police were using these laws to repress and make

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Speaker 3: small transgender not conforming people. Right. I have a dear

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Speaker 3: friend Ms Major who was also at Stonewall trans elder

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Speaker 3: and she talks about, you know, you would get arrested

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Speaker 3: just for going outside.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: Marcia would be regularly picked up by the police, whether

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Speaker 3: it was in Times Square or on Christopher Street just

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Speaker 3: by going outside. And what is so beautiful about that

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Speaker 3: moment too, is like she was reaching for a bigger

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Speaker 3: sense of knowing that she mattered, and she did it

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Speaker 3: from a place of turning over the table right when

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Speaker 3: we're feeling really afraid. It can be so powerful to

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Speaker 3: reach for anger, righteous anger, righteous revenge. Was what Stonewall

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Speaker 3: for her really was about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this thing that happens where injustice is happening

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Speaker 1: writ in front of you. Yeah, something bad is happening,

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Speaker 1: writ in front of you, and there is just this

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Speaker 1: like stasis and like being a bystander, yeah to those

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Speaker 1: things like someone needs to break, that someone needs to

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Speaker 1: be in order for anything to happen exactly, And uh,

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Speaker 1: it like calls upon you to be like a brave

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Speaker 1: person and the fact that like there were obviously brave

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Speaker 1: people before Marcia, before Sylvia and before anyone who was

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Speaker 1: there that night, of course, but it does just take

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Speaker 1: this like transcendence beyond yourself that Marsha was very tapped

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Speaker 1: into spiritually to make you go, well, let's fucking like

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Speaker 1: let's start the revolution.

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Speaker 3: Because it's like also unbearable to live in a place

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Speaker 3: of fear. Yeah, right, like it is. I've experienced this.

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Speaker 3: I remember like in you know, I've lived in New

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Speaker 3: York for a long time and I had many different

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Speaker 3: kinds of expressions in New York. Like sometimes the volume

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Speaker 3: of my life I came out of organizing, right, so, welfare, healthcare, housing,

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Speaker 3: you know, police in prison issues. Those were the things

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Speaker 3: that I was doing for a real long time before

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Speaker 3: I became an artist. And it was so important for

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Speaker 3: me to be with my community in that and we

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Speaker 3: were doing campaigns and kind of raising visibility, but the

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Speaker 3: volume of my life and my expression was really turned down, yeah,

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Speaker 3: And it was this kind of dichotomy between that, and

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Speaker 3: so I remember these moments where I was like, this

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Speaker 3: is I how can I show up for other people

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Speaker 3: if I'm not gonna actually be the most authentic version

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Speaker 3: of myself.

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Speaker 4: It's it's so it costs.

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Speaker 3: More for my soul to be fearful than it does

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Speaker 3: to actually like tap into my power and be exuberantly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of power, you there's a line in this book

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Speaker 2: which really I like had to read it many times

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Speaker 2: because it meant so much to me and I thought

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Speaker 2: you put it so well, and I'm gonna if I

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Speaker 2: butcher it you'll keep correctly. But some power can be

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Speaker 2: wrestled out of someone who's wielding power thoughtlessly or carelessly.

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Speaker 2: And it's something I think it was speaking to the

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Speaker 2: fact that like there was obviously I mean Stonewall was

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Speaker 2: a riot, there was a breakout, but it's almost like

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Speaker 2: the police at the time didn't know what to do

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Speaker 2: with it because then they were thinking, like, wait, why

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Speaker 2: exactly are we oppressing these people? What exactly? I know

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Speaker 2: we're following and maintaining the rule of love, but why

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Speaker 2: is the law what it is? Maybe that's worth questioning. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: can you just talk about the connection between those thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's like when someone is tapped into

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Speaker 3: who they really are, they have more power fastly and

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Speaker 3: more clarity and better sense of timing than all of

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Speaker 3: the people who don't. It takes it severs your power,

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Speaker 3: I think, on a spiritual.

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Speaker 4: Way and an.

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Speaker 3: Energetic way to be pushing someone down relentlessly. And so

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Speaker 3: the people who were plugged into who they were, like

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Speaker 3: Marcia and took that like fearless moment or like actually

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Speaker 3: this is not okay. Have are connected to a well

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Speaker 3: of resource that that shapes worlds and you saw it,

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Speaker 3: So I think about that all the time. It's like

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Speaker 3: it's everything that's going on right now. People who are

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Speaker 3: trying to like erase our lives have a real kind

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Speaker 3: of like they're not tapped in now at all. They're

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Speaker 3: not tapped into who they are. And so when we

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Speaker 3: meet that with an abundance of spirit, an abundance of

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Speaker 3: connection to those that came before and also those who

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Speaker 3: are being pushed down, I think we have we have

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Speaker 3: the resources.

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Speaker 1: We do because the oppressor is not dialing up the

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Speaker 1: volume on their life.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's exactly.

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Speaker 1: Right, but like we are kind of forced to. I'm

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Speaker 1: saying we in this sort of general sense, like we

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Speaker 1: in our oppression are our only option is just to

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Speaker 1: turn up the volume. That's exactly like despair is like

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Speaker 1: the thing that's supposed to happen. Despair is supposed to

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Speaker 1: be like a transitional place for me. Like that's that's

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Speaker 1: the thing that like in my queer experience that I've learned.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying that you and your drives up to

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Speaker 1: Disney World are tapping into your spirituality?

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Speaker 3: Like literally I'm listening to like my manifesting tape, like

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Speaker 3: you know, listening to like Laraji and my music and whatever,

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Speaker 3: and it's that to me, I'm absolutely tapping into it.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing at Disney?

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Speaker 4: Okay, so I'm doing all.

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Speaker 2: Of it, But where are you most spiritually tapped in

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Speaker 2: the Rise of the Resistance.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's literally art.

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Speaker 3: I'm reading Walt Disney's biography right now going through because like,

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Speaker 3: honestly that I want to make art like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I hope and aspire that my art builds a

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Speaker 3: world that people feel invited to. That's what the point

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Speaker 3: of the book is is like, come in to Marcia's

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Speaker 3: world that is expansive where you get permission to actually

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Speaker 3: be who you are. And so to me, I think

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Speaker 3: about other people who create on that scale, you know,

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Speaker 3: and that's really my desires, like to create culture and

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Speaker 3: aren't on that scale, whether through a photograph, a film,

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Speaker 3: a book, or like a theme bar.

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Speaker 1: I feel because I think because you had it, you

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Speaker 1: had an exhibit somewhere, you just show somewhere where it

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Speaker 1: was like a portal, right, yeah, so.

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Speaker 4: The Whitney Biennials portal.

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Speaker 3: And then also I have work up with the met

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Speaker 3: in the Afrofuturist Period Room, and it's two photographs, two

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Speaker 3: self portraits, one where I'm floating in mid air in

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Speaker 3: a space suit and the other where it's like I'm

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Speaker 3: back in time in the eighteen hundreds, kind of evoking

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Speaker 3: this early transfigure Mary Jones lived in on Green Street

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Speaker 3: in Soho in the eighteen thirties. And so the Afrofuturist

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Speaker 3: Period Room is also like a portal. Right, you get

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Speaker 3: to step into a space that imagines that Seneca Village,

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Speaker 3: which preceded Central Parks, still exists.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: This is this question of like what if we got

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Speaker 3: to live freely? And then my hope is that people

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Speaker 3: see in their own life, like what if I act

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Speaker 3: more freely right in this moment, in this moment, in

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Speaker 3: this moment.

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Speaker 2: So do you think like it's just to speak about

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Speaker 2: like because we're talking about Disney and now it's funny

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Speaker 2: because we were just talking before we got on like

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Speaker 2: they opened Epic Universe and they.

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Speaker 1: Used the.

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Speaker 2: Portals like that's the that's the language that they're using.

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Speaker 2: Portals into worlds, lands, not like bridges. And there is

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Speaker 2: something about immersion in the sort of you know, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, the girl who did the very long four

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Speaker 2: hour thing about Disney the Hotel.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, lindsay something.

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Speaker 3: She does all these long content but yeah, and they're

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Speaker 3: so good. We love the hotel.

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Speaker 1: The hotel was.

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Speaker 2: She talked about this concept of immersion, about how like

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Speaker 2: it really feels like as entertainment and as experiences and

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Speaker 2: as technology goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: I think this is kind of what West World was.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, it's like the kind of final frontier of entertainment

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Speaker 2: and in enjoying, you know, these experiences, the goal being

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Speaker 2: like full immersion. Yeah, what do you think that that is?

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Speaker 2: Why do you think we're there? Well?

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Speaker 3: I think you know, for me, like I make art films,

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Speaker 3: right and or kind of like short films, and so

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Speaker 3: I always think about it's gonna sound strange, but the

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Speaker 3: first one of the first films I saw was' was

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Speaker 3: It of Oz? Right? And I think about this moment

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Speaker 3: right where it goes from black and white to technicolor.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it did something to my mind.

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Speaker 5: Ye.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's a paradigm shift. And so I think immersion

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Speaker 3: is really a paradigm shift. So I have a film

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Speaker 3: Silesia that's at Tate Modern and it goes from eighteen

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Speaker 3: thirties New York to Sylvia rivera on Christopher Street along

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Speaker 3: the Hudson River, which we called the River Jordan. And

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Speaker 3: I was hoping to evoke that where's it of oz

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Speaker 3: feeling that is like black and white to technicolor, because

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Speaker 3: when I'm immersed in something, I'm seeing it differently, right,

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Speaker 3: like you are kind of like hacking or editing your

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Speaker 3: reality in a popular way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that almost speaks to to Marsha P. Johnson's

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Speaker 2: recollection of the time, because she was fully immersed in

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Speaker 2: the experience and so she cannot see it clearly because

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Speaker 2: she is existing within it. Whereas that side, there are

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Speaker 2: of course facts about when someone all happens. But when

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Speaker 2: you're immersed in the experience and therefore part of the atmosphere,

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Speaker 2: you can't really be expected. And also there's some joy

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Speaker 2: in that, and you're losing yourself into the moment.

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Speaker 3: When artists are a musician is performing on stage, it's

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Speaker 3: like you're fully there, you're fully channeling or parameters change.

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Speaker 3: The parameters change, and.

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Speaker 1: It says something about the fact that the collective recollection

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Speaker 1: collective recollection of stonewall of the Riot is that no

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Speaker 1: one quite knows exactly.

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Speaker 2: What happened exactly.

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Speaker 5: That's it.

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Speaker 1: It's not just one person that's Marshall like not being

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Speaker 1: able to recall it, but a lot of.

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Speaker 3: People because it's not my friendly Alacsmi writes really beautifully

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Speaker 3: about how riots are not sane events, the not neuro

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Speaker 3: normative events. You're in an altered state, and I think

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Speaker 3: that speaks to but you're saying, it's like you're not

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Speaker 3: going to have total recall, You're fully in this altered place. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there was not like a first brick exactly exactly exactly,

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Speaker 3: even though there were people who were first rippling out,

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Speaker 3: like Marcia in the back room or store may or

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Speaker 3: you know, like Nova, there were people rippling, but there

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Speaker 3: were these were popping off simultaneously.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you write so well in the book about the

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Speaker 1: community that was built not even around Marsha, but just

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Speaker 1: with like horizontally with Marsha just sort of like there

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Speaker 1: as a leader in this in this space. But it's like,

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Speaker 1: it's really wild that it all is contained in the

427
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Speaker 1: neighborhood or on Christopher Street. Like her whole life, her

428
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Speaker 1: whole life began in a way, like her parameters changed

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Speaker 1: on Christopher Street at Sheridan Square and then you know,

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Speaker 1: has this tragic, almost beautifully mysterious ending too right on

431
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Speaker 1: Christopher Street, and like and then that's where everyone celebrated

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Speaker 1: her life. Yeah, you know, they spread spreader ashes at

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Speaker 1: the river. Like the fact that it's so local and

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Speaker 1: yet so globally like impactful is always what's kind of

435
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Speaker 1: crazy to me. Yeah, like it happened right there, like

436
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Speaker 1: like the start of queer liberation happened on the street

437
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Speaker 1: where like there's a Donald's two blocks down.

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00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it used to be a stream, Like it

439
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 3: was one of the longest streets in New York. I

440
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 3: kind of go into like the history of the city

441
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: a little bit, and it was like a water us

442
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 3: all being water signs. It was a water pathway. Christopher

443
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 3: Street was way hundreds of years ago, and it had

444
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 3: a flow and kind of like in a lyrical sense,

445
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 3: it mirrored Marsha's flow. When I was writing the book

446
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 3: at the end, I lived on Christopher Street. I lived

447
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 3: on Christopher and Hudson, and it just it was so

448
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 3: trippy to experience, how you know, Marcia had a birth

449
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 3: of becoming right at Stonewall and then there was a moment,

450
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 3: you know, an ending, not the ending of her, but

451
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 3: an ending of and Christopher and hunting in the water.

452
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,479
Speaker 3: And so it just is it's so profound in it.

453
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 3: How could it not raise these kinds of spiritual questions.

454
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really do like believe that, And this is

455
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: where I'll get pricing in WOOO. But like there are

456
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: places that just have energy, like and I do think

457
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 2: that that intersection has energy, Like there is an energy there.

458
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: It is thick.

459
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 2: You are more powerful there. I will always have such

460
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: gorgeous memories. This is when Bowen and I were in

461
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: our mid twenties. I was dating Henry Koperski shout out,

462
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 2: and he would play the piano at the downstairs duplex. Yeah,

463
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: and we would go and Bowen would do the most

464
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 2: incredible performance of Lady Gaga's rendition of Bang Bang And

465
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: I will just never forget the people coming up to

466
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: the window and looking in, not knowing it would be

467
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 2: you know, future superstar bow and Yang. But like it's

468
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: just there was something about it like we were all

469
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: performer there.

470
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: We were all stars there.

471
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: Like that's right. I remember that's where I started. Literally

472
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: I started the Christmas Show. Yes, like from seventy people upstairs,

473
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 2: like and just seeing people go up and express themselves.

474
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: You are lended that because of the history, even if

475
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: you're not conscious, that's because it's woven into the place.

476
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 3: It's woven into the energy of the place. I think

477
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: that's exactly right. My friend Randy, Randy's like eighty three now,

478
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: but he was, do you ever go to Julius? Yeah,

479
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 3: of course, So he led the sit in before Stonewall.

480
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 3: Wow at Julius, you know, like this was nineteen sixty

481
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 3: five or something like a few years before Stonewall. Julius

482
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: was a straight bar that refused to serve openly gay people.

483
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 3: And he went there and he led, you know, borrow

484
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: tactics from the black liberation movement, the civil rights movement,

485
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 3: and he led this beautiful sit in. And so there's

486
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 3: all of these spots that pop off like that, so

487
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 3: much so that it's like it's not one place. It

488
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: is an abundance of places creating a very particular vibe.

489
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost feels like in that it's like a

490
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 2: true circle of queer bars and like a queer community.

491
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 2: It does feel protective, almost like a witchy spiritual circle.

492
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: You know what.

493
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's like you it's like any anything

494
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 2: uncouth untoward, Like it's like if yeah, it's just it

495
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: would feel like a true violation. We are protected there,

496
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: and I honestly feel like the entire thing needs to

497
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: be historically landmarks. Fear for the duplex, I do.

498
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: I I like it.

499
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: It bothers me to know that like it's just a

500
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: building that could get taken down because it's not.

501
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 4: It's not.

502
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 3: It's yeah, And I think it's interesting too, you know,

503
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 3: like we are creating also the new places in that space.

504
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 3: When hundreds and hundreds of people showed up at you know,

505
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: in Sheridan Square and we're like, you cannot erase the

506
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: tea from the National Park Service websites or erase Marcia

507
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 3: and Soviet Right exactly, I think we're creating you know,

508
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 3: it's like it was powerful then and it's powerful now

509
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 3: and it's summoning force.

510
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: But then you can have it show up in any

511
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: form where you either have hundreds of people show up

512
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: a Sharn Square or you have fifteen thousand people show

513
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: up at the Brooklyn Museum in twenty twenty.

514
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 4: That's exactly right.

515
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: That was a moment where I was like, oh my god,

516
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: like this this is how we show up now because

517
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: we always were like it's so hard to like visualize

518
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: what it was like back then in the absence of

519
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: like documentation or photography. But it's like the way proliferates

520
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: now is even more sort of functional because it's like

521
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: anyone could see that from anywhere, that image anywhere and

522
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: then go there now or just know where to find

523
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: their people or resources now, which is probably most important.

524
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 2: I'm sortly just thinking about how if there were like

525
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: just this, they'd be reading this in high school, you

526
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And I just I feel like

527
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: I'd be remiss not to talk about with you hear,

528
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 2: someone who's so involved in the literary and art community

529
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: and like someone who's like you know, out here writing

530
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: really important work about queer historical figures, if you could

531
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: just speak to and talk about what you're seeing in

532
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 2: terms of like attacks on these types of books and

533
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: like things like that, and the removal of these types

534
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 2: of really important works that explain and you know, include people.

535
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: And I feel like Marsha P. Johnson's legacy, well, we're.

536
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 3: Seeing it from obviously the highest office political office right

537
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 3: with Trump executive orders that are having a real material

538
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: effect on our community. You know, ever since the inauguration

539
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: where he was talking about their official policy of two genders. Right.

540
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 3: I have a dear friend who tried to travel through

541
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 3: the airport two weeks ago and she was the TSI

542
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: didn't allow her to enter because she has an X

543
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: on her ID state issued ID, and they also wouldn't

544
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: let her leave the airport. And so we're actually seeing

545
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 3: these it's not just rhetoric. It's having a real concrete

546
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 3: effect in our lives. It's also really affecting. I always

547
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 3: want to make sure we're including like our trans siblings

548
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: who are incarcerated, and so that it's having our huge

549
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 3: effect on incarcerated people. And it's also affecting the classroom, right,

550
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: and these institutions of art and creativity. We saw the

551
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 3: National Endowment of Arts today, museums where my work is up,

552
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 3: mass Smoka just made an announcement that the NEA is

553
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: withdrawing funding. So we're really saying in real time effect yeah,

554
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: our political landscape.

555
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: So many organizations of any size or like losing out

556
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: on all this NEA stuff where Baffo I heard, is

557
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: losing stuff Like a lot of these the only way

558
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: that I have known how to be present because of

559
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: scheduling stuff, and like I literally can't even like show

560
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: up like in any place outstead of work. Right now,

561
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: It's like okay, like Baffo is raising funds, let's go there,

562
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: Let's let's drop some cash there, Let's drop some cash

563
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: for the doll invasion in August. Like, let's just like

564
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: PLoP some little some little windfalls wherever we can, like

565
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: we as in me like I'm trying to do that,

566
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: and the only way that I know how now, because

567
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: it's like we cannot feel helpless in this moment exactly.

568
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: It just spare has to be a transitional phase. It

569
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: cannot be the terminus.

570
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, I think to me.

571
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 3: You know an organization that's near and dear to my

572
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: heart is the trans Justice Funding Project. So I've been

573
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 3: raising funds for trans Justice Funding Project, which funds gives

574
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: fund to rural grassroots organizations throughout the South First Nation,

575
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: organizations which are really important places that are not necessarily

576
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: just on the coast. And so I always like to bring.

577
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: Up, Yeah, God, I mean, is it how much of

578
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: this do you have to sort of like hold in

579
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: your in your mind, like at any given time, I

580
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: feel like you are in your work. You're so expansive

581
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: and the people that you think about that I feel

582
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: like there must be some weight to that.

583
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

584
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 3: I think part of it is I've been doing this

585
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 3: for a long time, right, and there are moments that

586
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: evoke amount of grief seeing loved ones die from lack

587
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: of care or from violence. It's definitely like a part

588
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: of my story this moment. For whatever reason, I also

589
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: feel tapped into a sense of hope because I have

590
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 3: come to a place where I firmly believe the bigger

591
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: the problem, the bigger the solution, and that solutions are

592
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: created from problems, and that when we pivot our focus

593
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: from not you know, it's really important to talk about

594
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: the bad things going on, but also when we pivot

595
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: to well, how are we showing up in the world,

596
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: you were just doing that. I think that's really magnetic,

597
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: compelling energy. More and more people are looking for who

598
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 3: are the helpers. I think it was like mister Rogers,

599
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: He's like, look for the helpers?

600
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 5: Right.

601
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 3: I firmly believe that now it's like, who are the

602
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: helpers in our community? We know things are so hard

603
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: and when I do that, I feel lighter, like I

604
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: have a greater sense of clarity. It's like when I clean, similarly,

605
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: I have a greater sense of clarity. And also when

606
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 3: I'm looking for the helper and looking for the solutions.

607
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 4: And driving to Disney literally honestly driving to Disney.

608
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: Seven by You Adventure.

609
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 4: I really it broke down when I was on the.

610
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: Days breaking down, days breaking But it was really cool

611
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: because we got to leave through the back door and everything,

612
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: which was I mean, I love the backstage.

613
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were on Tower of Terror when it broke down.

614
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

615
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: We were high as a kite and we were.

616
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: Like, uh and like they come they come out of

617
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: like you know, like a hallway with fluoresca like lighting,

618
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: like hey, you guys have to come down, and you

619
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: literally walk down. It was we were, but it was

620
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: hilarious because then we took an actual elevator.

621
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: Down to the ground.

622
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 4: We were we were like, okay, drop along the way.

623
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: We all we did was rise, and so then there

624
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: was that thing of like in your head when you're

625
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: expecting one thing, but then it.

626
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 4: Never so we kept that was we were. We stopped

627
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 4: literally before the one Jennifer is like, yes, I have.

628
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: To go for so many reasons.

629
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's my star.

630
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 4: I love that.

631
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: Jennifer is a legend.

632
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: But it's like aoc on her like Fight the Oligarchy

633
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: Tour one of the things she's been speaking to And

634
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: I do think it's so important and it's something that

635
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: I struggle with, you know, over the past six weeks,

636
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: Like I find myself like traveling a lot and like

637
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: doing some things that are making me happy and taking opportunities,

638
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: and I there is like a degree of guilt because

639
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: every time I turn on the news, it feels like devastation.

640
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: It feels like depression, it feels like more darkness encroaching.

641
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: But one thing she said was that you have to

642
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: take your opportunities to feel joy.

643
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 4: I remember hearing that because.

644
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: Because it could be so easy right now to forget

645
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: and then you forget what you're fighting for.

646
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also when you I have found I don't

647
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: know if you have, but when I'm in a more

648
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: joyful place, I have a greater capacity to show up for.

649
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 4: People in my life.

650
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's like my the plug is plugged into

651
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: the electricity in my joy and so I can be

652
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: channing solutions more and when when I'm just vibing in despair,

653
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily lose that capacity, but it shows that

654
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 3: it's diminished, at least for me.

655
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: Of course.

656
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

657
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: And is this part of the imagination for the theme park,

658
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: which is that is kind of the ultimate place?

659
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you for seeing me, of course, girl.

660
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, from a young age, and I do think

661
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: it did come out of like honestly, I think my

662
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: obsession with it started when I was seven or eight.

663
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: We were just talking about this because Bowen and I

664
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: went to Epic Universe. They were kind enough to invite

665
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 2: us to see it, and we're going to be at

666
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: the grand opening. Oh my god, it's so exciting.

667
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that.

668
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: So we're going to be there.

669
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: And we were being asked because they filmed us doing

670
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: they filmed us on the go pro doing the stardust racer.

671
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

672
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: We were asked, we were online like about our experiences

673
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: with the im person. I said, I've been at Universal

674
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: Parks fan since I was seven or eight and I

675
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: went on the Back to the Future ride and I

676
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: remember it. I didn't understand that immersive entertainment like that,

677
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: and I think it made me want to be creative,

678
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: And I think that's why it's important, and that's why

679
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: I get on my soapbox so much about them lowering

680
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: those goddamn prices because families need to be able to

681
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: experience that. That is what what would have wanted, et cetera.

682
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: But my thing is it is really formative for a

683
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: young kid. Like we went into the Super Nintendo World

684
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: and I was like, my sister, who's a grown ass,

685
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: like walked in and here's a horizon. I'm like, yeah,

686
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: imagine being.

687
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: A child exactly.

688
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: Like it's crazy, those those those experiences are so special.

689
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can only go so often because of the

690
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: Florida discount. Well, yes, which is incredible. It's like it's

691
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: much more discounted. Everyone should have access to places of

692
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: that helped them plug in their line to have a

693
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: greater sense of like imagination. You know, there's this moment

694
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: where I think it's Kevin Costner talking about riding the

695
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 3: original Disney rides over and over and over again. My

696
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: whole YouTube about Algorithm is theme parks.

697
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 5: Okay, I'll just literally that's the only thing that comes up.

698
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: Podcast.

699
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: You are amazed.

700
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: She's a legend, but like I'm not biotic construct looking

701
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: at the what is your what's your algorithm?

702
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 3: Okay, so it's all like epic Disney and then like manifesting.

703
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 5: That's a great, that's really good. And they talk to

704
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 5: each other, literally talk to each other because you have to, like,

705
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 5: for me, at least, I have to imagine it into

706
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 5: being right. And while she was doing that, I write

707
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 5: a little bit about the hot spring hotels in Times Square.

708
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 5: These were hourly hotels where, you know, you literally would

709
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 5: be arrested if you were a trans person expressing any

710
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 5: part of your authenticity in Times Square.

711
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: Because they would assume it was solicitation exactly. And these

712
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 3: laws actually stayed into the books, you know. Twenty twenty

713
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 3: was when the three articles I was going to say,

714
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 3: Andrew Cromo, former governor, right, and so Marcia. When they

715
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 3: could hustle a little bit of money, they would rent

716
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 3: these hourly hotels. And they call them hot spring hotels

717
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 3: because whether whatever season it was, it was always really hot.

718
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: But these were places where they would dream their life

719
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 3: into being right. They would have a little bit of

720
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 3: relief from the police and violence on the street, and

721
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 3: they would ask each other again and again and again,

722
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: like what would it feel like to be able to

723
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 3: move through the world with a greater sense of ease

724
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: or a greater sense of freedom. And so to me,

725
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 3: those places, whether it's the Hourly hotel or a Disney

726
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: theme park or epic, those are the places that we

727
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 3: get to, at least for me, imagine a world where

728
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 3: we get to show up more free and more playful.

729
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the site specificity is important because I was gonna say,

730
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: like even like the porn theaters in Times Square, Yeah,

731
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: places where like they would just stay all day exactly

732
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: and think just and just like they were being like

733
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: a little black box space whatever. Like, yeah, the world

734
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: was at some remove exact that they could like access

735
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: this like imagination.

736
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. And Samuel Delaney, I don't know if you've read

737
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 3: like Time Square, read Times Square right about it really

738
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 3: beautiful but you know, and also Marcia came from a

739
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 3: place of like kind of naivete right like she was

740
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 3: you know, she's working at Child's restaurant, so she was

741
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 3: a waitress, and then she was befriending these treet queens

742
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 3: like Sylvia, who was thirteen I can only imagine literally,

743
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: and then was going to these theaters and there's this

744
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 3: interview where she was talking about, oh.

745
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 4: Like you won't lick that man's toes.

746
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 3: You know, she mind kept getting blown by this imagery

747
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: and being like, oh, like, I guess people are doing

748
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 3: these things.

749
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 4: So it was really powerful to read that part.

750
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: It's a portal, it's a portal's portal. And how do

751
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: you feel this way about children's literature? Like our friend

752
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: Julia was telling us, like he he wrote this beautiful

753
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: children's book and whatever I did, like a like like

754
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 1: a book of it with him, was like, like, what inspired

755
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: you to children's literature? And he was like, it's the

756
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: most politically powerful medium that we have.

757
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

758
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 3: So I also wrote a children's books that comes out

759
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: the same day. It's called One Day in June, and

760
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 3: it starts with a caretaker with a little one on

761
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: respeech I don't know if y'all go to Queer Haven Sanctuary,

762
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: and then it goes up to Raquel Willis's speech at

763
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: the Brooklyn Museum with fifteen thousand people, And it's really

764
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 3: about channeling that frequency just like a radio station of

765
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: Marsha and how she is in the every day, she's

766
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: in the permission to be all of who we are.

767
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 3: She's in you know, worker who is giving her tips

768
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 3: to someone who can't afford to buy their kid ice cream.

769
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 3: She's in the dancing at Raoul, she's you know, or

770
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 3: their club.

771
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: You know.

772
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: It's like all of this five is very available and

773
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 3: to me, in a moment when young ones, kids are

774
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 3: being told really firmly that either they don't exist, that

775
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 3: their truth is wrong and they need to change, or

776
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 3: they're just you know, turning the dial of their of

777
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 3: their life and truth down, it's really important to have

778
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 3: a book that's not that right. That's we're giving ourselves

779
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 3: permission to play and to try new things, and also

780
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: to connect it to a history that is still so palpable.

781
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about this really interesting metaphor that I feel

782
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: like you're returning to, which is turning up the volume,

783
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: adjusting to the frequency, like plugging in. It feels like

784
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: they're feel like you're describing life in a way or

785
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: just like you know, the human experience in a way

786
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: that is very like that's a toggle or that can

787
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: be like modulated in a sense because and in a

788
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: way I kind of not in a way, I really

789
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: do love that's beautiful.

790
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean that's just how I've come to

791
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 3: experience the world, that there is something underpinning all of

792
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: our experience, and whether you call that like God or

793
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 3: the universe or source or joy, which is just another

794
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: word for it, you can readily tune to that wherever

795
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 3: you are. And so a lot of times when you're

796
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 3: feeling fear, the pathive least resistance to that is to

797
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: get really angry about the situation. That brings you closer

798
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 3: to a feeling of clarity and joy and that frequency

799
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 3: that's fully available.

800
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 4: So to me, part of.

801
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: That is just like a basis of manifesting. And so

802
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 3: there are people who are talking about manifesting or bring

803
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 3: things into the material, but I really believe that there

804
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: is a Marsha frequency, you know, like a joy frequency

805
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 3: that when we're feeling all of who we are and

806
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 3: we're inviting all aspects of ourselves into the room, we

807
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 3: have a clear, clear access to that.

808
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: There's a really wonderful thing about listening to Marsha's voice

809
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: that I found I have like press play on videos

810
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: or just like in there's footage of her your in

811
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: your film Happy Birthday, Marsia, where I could just like

812
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: listen to her talk all day like sort of tour

813
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: it up on a podcast.

814
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 4: Literally, she's hilarious.

815
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean she's so original.

816
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 4: Funny, original.

817
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 3: And I was here yesterday because my friend Rachael Willis

818
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 3: is doing a podcast about Marcia called Afterlife, and she

819
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: was talking about seeing these YouTube clips of Marsham that

820
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: Randy Ricker was filming, and Marcia just has great timing,

821
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 3: you know, she's like, get your heart ready for heart

822
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: failure to the to the filmer right, and then she's

823
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: like and then I'll get the camera, you know, like

824
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: you're gonna you're gonna expire because of my outfit, and

825
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: then I'm gonna jack your camera. And it's just like

826
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 3: these fits that she was always doing. And she modeled

827
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 3: herself a lot of her performance work off of Billy Burke,

828
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 3: who was the original Funda exactly and was a vaudeville actress.

829
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 3: And so Marsham did this.

830
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: She played the jets. She was like the bimbo. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, she.

831
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 4: Was playing the bimbo.

832
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: And she was well aware, like there was a moment

833
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: when she was in the West End in London, the

834
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: only time she really traveled from the US, and she

835
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: was at drill Hall which is now Rada Studios, and

836
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: she was performing the Dits and the audience didn't get it,

837
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 3: Like people were writing like Marshall must have be having

838
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 3: an off night because she's not quite hitting the notes,

839
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: you know, or she's not really remembering her lines. But

840
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,479
Speaker 3: that was her persona and she did it so well.

841
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 3: And just one week before she died, she said, I

842
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 3: love when people think I'm just a ditch or a

843
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 3: silly little street queen because I can work them out

844
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: of their money. But she was well aware from childhood.

845
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 3: She was in the chorus with her brother Bob and

846
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 3: her sister Jeanie and Elizabeth New Jersey, and they used

847
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 3: to go around to the neighbors and sing for money,

848
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 3: and she would sing and completely off key, and Jeanie

849
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 3: Michaels is like, but they always gave her the money.

850
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 3: And it was because she was doing this on purpose,

851
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 3: to see a little kid like go all over the

852
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 3: scale and they'd just be like, oh that's right, yeah, yeah,

853
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 3: a true performer exactly.

854
00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

855
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: Speaking of conjuring up the childhood memories, we have to

856
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 2: ask you the question, the central question of lost culture, yes,

857
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 2: which is what was the culture that made you say,

858
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 2: culture was for me like that formative element of whatever

859
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 2: kind of pop culture or culture in general that you feel.

860
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 3: Well. We talked about Wizard of Oz, but also with

861
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 3: my dad, I went to Mattine Films because they were cheaper,

862
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: and I we saw literally like every single Eddie Murphy movie.

863
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 4: That's so funny you say that, Really.

864
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: I did the same thing with Eddie Murphy.

865
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 3: It was the only movie it and my mother that

866
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 3: kind of styled himself off of Eddie Murphy. And so

867
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: you know, it was all of it, right, But I

868
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 3: remember Harlem Knights with Dela Reese in those costumes and

869
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 3: Richard Pryor, and then you know, later the Whiz with

870
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 3: Richard Pryor and the Emerald Secret scene. But it was

871
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 3: really those that humor and which I lost for a

872
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 3: little while, but I remember that we were we went

873
00:42:58,800 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: to have a good time, we went to have fun,

874
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: and it was like everything Eddie Murphy. And so that

875
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: really was like Jealousy is a good indicator for me

876
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 3: because it shows me what I want to be doing.

877
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 3: And so when I'm like jealous about someone's career, it's

878
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 3: not like I hope they don't have it. I'm like

879
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 3: I want to be doing that thing. Jealousy's really important.

880
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 3: And so it's like I can remember being jealous, you know,

881
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 3: as a little kid of all these people who got

882
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 3: to act on stage and you're like.

883
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 4: I want to be doing that.

884
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: You get it in your head like you hate them.

885
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 4: You get in your head.

886
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 3: That you hate them, but you really just want to

887
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: do what they're doing but don't know how to do it.

888
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 4: That's all that jealousy is.

889
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: And so to me, I was like, I can just

890
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 3: remember being Harlem Nights, you know, Beverly Hills, all of

891
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 3: the Beverly Hills clops, you know, like Golden Child, all

892
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 3: of them, where I was just like I want to

893
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 3: be one of these people on screen, like having a ball.

894
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: I was jealous of Raven for being and Doctor Dolittle too,

895
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, because like she gets to play

896
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy's daughter. I don't know why. It was like

897
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: I want to.

898
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 2: My dad put me in that car and said get

899
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: in the car and we went to see Nutty Professor.

900
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: To Janet, I could tell it was for him, yes,

901
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: But I had so much joy because my dad was

902
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: sharing something explicitly with and he never took me in

903
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: the movies.

904
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: It was that I told you drag and so many

905
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: movies it mind blowing.

906
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really did you grow up? I grew up

907
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 3: in Roxbury, which is part of Boston.

908
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so then also so cool that mass like

909
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: that you're exactly But okay, can we do an assessment

910
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: as a group about the movie Norbid? Because I thought

911
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: stowed out of my mind in high school and I

912
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 1: to rewatch it and I'm nervous to revisit it because

913
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is gonna be so, this is gonna

914
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: be so chaotic for so many reasons. But is it work?

915
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, do I just like a home and

916
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: watch Norbits? I?

917
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 5: So?

918
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 4: I think So he's a genius.

919
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: He's a genius.

920
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 3: He's a literal and he's also kind of ahead of

921
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 3: the curve in a very particular consistent way where I

922
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 3: feel like, so much later you might be picking up something, yeah,

923
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 3: that you didn't see it first.

924
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: I feel like something though that like fucking sucks to

925
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 2: have to tackle this type of thing. Yeah, I feel

926
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: like we're talking about a couple of things where there

927
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: are like, there's elephants in the room, right, there's an

928
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: elephant in the room with Eddie Murphy's homophobia. Yeah, there's

929
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 2: an elephant in the room with Epic Universe having Harry

930
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: Potter and the JK rowing. Absolutely, I just wonder like,

931
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 2: how do you personally navigate that and filter that, because

932
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: I find myself having a really hard time with Yeah,

933
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: of course these are in the past, but I think

934
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's interesting because when I say my

935
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 2: dad really like styled George Gossip Junior himself off of Eddie,

936
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: like it was all of it, it was also the

937
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: homophobia in transphobia, right, Yeah, and he.

938
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 3: Died in twenty ten. And in a similar way that

939
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: I have a kind of like spiritual relationship with Mars,

940
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 3: I have one with my dad where it is really

941
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 3: easy to see now that people who are saying the

942
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,959
Speaker 3: most kind of like intense file things also around HIV

943
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 3: and AIDS and you know, like it's all of course

944
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 3: are either like not surrounded by our community, right, which

945
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 3: in and of itself is you're missing out on such

946
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 3: a blessing.

947
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: Yea.

948
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 3: So that's like a place of girl like you were

949
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 3: really missing out, you know, like it sucks for you.

950
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 3: And then also when people are doing that, it's so

951
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 3: clear no one who's feeling really good about themselves is

952
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 3: consistently attacking another person. I just don't think I can't.

953
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 3: I don't think that you can be in a place

954
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: of joy and also be pushing against them.

955
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: She's not happy sitting in her house, That's what I'm

956
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: saying Twitter all day.

957
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 3: And so to me, I'm like, I just have a

958
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: place of I think I give like maybe Eddie Murphy

959
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 3: a lot of grace around.

960
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 4: Okay, you are young.

961
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 3: And and doing a long time ago fame from a

962
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: family that maybe I don't know. I'm just like, you're

963
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 3: a famous young black person and all of a sudden,

964
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 3: everything that you're saying is the talk of the task,

965
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: and so it's not like my dad who says homophobic

966
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: things and then no one knows about, but it's everywhere.

967
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 3: And so to me, I'm like, oh, this, this is

968
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 3: so sad for you. And also I just I don't know,

969
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 3: I have such a warm spot in my heart around

970
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: Eddie Murphy because sure and with JK Rowling, she seems

971
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 3: so miserable and I'm just like, what's going on there? Girl?

972
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: Like you, something is going on because you are so

973
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 3: going out of your way to attack like my community

974
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: when we're literally just being alive. And then you know,

975
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 3: the celebration of the UK Supreme Court. I don't know

976
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: if you all saw. Yeah, it's disgusting. There's something so

977
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: intense going on if a symbol of freedom, a symbol

978
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 3: of expansiveness is causing such a knee jerk response that

979
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: you have to go out of your way to attack it.

980
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 3: And so I'm like, you were not connected to what

981
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 3: I'm about, right, like you, you can't be in a

982
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: place of pleasure and happiness and joy when you're going

983
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: out of your way to do that. And so with her,

984
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 3: I'm just like, blessed you on your journey. You're either

985
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 3: going to figure it out now or like when you're immaterial.

986
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: And huh yeah material. It's like my only well, the

987
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: only way I can rationalize it with her is that

988
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you got so rich and famous off

989
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: of writing this morality tale, that your set of morals,

990
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: your code of morals is sort of indisputable, and it's

991
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: the only thing, it's the only correct thing in the world,

992
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: and that she the mechanism by what she's putting down

993
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: trans people is by victimizing CIS women in a way

994
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: that is like more dire than what's it's literally in

995
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: a way that is that it's like not happening. It's

996
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's fabricated.

997
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 4: It's fabri it's completely all of it is fabricated.

998
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: Right.

999
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 3: The fear is completely fabricated because the scary thing that

1000
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 3: they're talking about aren't being committed or produced by transgender

1001
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 3: not conforming people, which are such a small part of

1002
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 3: the population and are like, we're just trying to live.

1003
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 3: This is a fabricated like fear respond to either not

1004
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 3: being able to figure out the economy, so you're blaming

1005
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 3: like transfids, you know, it's and or whatever is going

1006
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 3: on with JK, like not being able to figure out

1007
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 3: her own stuff. And so to me, yeah, it's it's

1008
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 3: completely did y'all go into the Harry Potter rat?

1009
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 2: I mean we did?

1010
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 4: Speaking of.

1011
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: The thing is like this is my and I struggle.

1012
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And my thing was like, you know what, I

1013
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: just thought about relatives that I have that now have

1014
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: really gone hard for Trump, and I can't recognize them

1015
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: from what they were when I was growing up. And

1016
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: the fact is they're not the same person, but they

1017
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: will not take my memories of them from when I

1018
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: was a kid, and so I kind of just said, like,

1019
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 2: you know what, she is not going to ruin this

1020
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: thing for me that like me again, made me want

1021
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: to be creative, made me want to be who I am.

1022
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 4: I love that.

1023
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 2: And my thing is just like I'm just not gonna

1024
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 2: let her have that. I'm not gonna let her cloud

1025
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: like ruin this like experience for me.

1026
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: And the thing too is just like, you know what's

1027
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: great the Dark Universe. The Dark Universe is amazing, and

1028
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: your Dragon Universe, which we had I've never seen the movies.

1029
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: I loved it totally.

1030
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 4: I love that.

1031
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: The fun thing is I understand why they did it

1032
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 2: because it's such a catch.

1033
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course.

1034
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: And I will say the ride.

1035
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: Is actually kind of cunty because it's like Dolores Umberge's

1036
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: trial and I'm like, God, damn it, why am I

1037
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: walking in here? I haven't thought feelings When it's like

1038
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: a trial ride, It's like it's like so gay, you.

1039
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: Know what I mean.

1040
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: It's like you're walking in and it's like she's on trial.

1041
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: We're gonna watch her being made guilty and she catches

1042
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 2: free and Emel just Staughton comes back and gives like

1043
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: a fierce performance and you're like, god, JK, shut the

1044
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: fuck up.

1045
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 5: The up.

1046
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 4: That's odd.

1047
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: But where are you at? Will you go in there?

1048
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 4: I mean?

1049
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because you because it's like you would

1050
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: not be abandoning anything about your transnists going there necessarily.

1051
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1052
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: It was it a kind of revolution, isn't Like people

1053
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: showing up to places where they're not wanted is kind

1054
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, not the revolutionary thing to do, but

1055
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: kind of like.

1056
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 3: That's transformative to be in a place where they're not

1057
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 3: up to speed with your beauty or your value or

1058
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 3: your worth or your deserving this, and to just not

1059
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 3: turn your dial to that, but to like, actually I

1060
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 3: belong everywhere I go and exactly including this.

1061
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 4: Place that I love.

1062
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially as like as someone who's like, it's such

1063
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 2: a crazy moment in theme park history.

1064
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: It's like the epic universal of at all.

1065
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: By the way, it is that good, Like the hype

1066
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: is so real, like the first time in twenty five

1067
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: years that they've opened like a major new like that,

1068
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 2: and it's like it's just what they've done with the

1069
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: theme parking technology. You're going to be so gagged for

1070
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: this Monster's on change right, Like it's really good and

1071
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: just like the story that they tell with that, we've

1072
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 2: been joking about Victoria Frankenstine on this podcast for a year.

1073
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: It's a gag definitely cultural culture, but it's a lot

1074
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: of fun.

1075
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we are the ambassadors of Celestial Park, that's right,

1076
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 2: which is the Hobland's official title.

1077
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 4: It was also like that the Hobland's pretty chill.

1078
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: It's very chill.

1079
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so it's like if you're over stimulated, maybe

1080
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 3: you go to Celestial Park or whatever.

1081
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 1: It like cut in that way.

1082
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1083
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 4: I was just at.

1084
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 3: Epcot for the Flower Garden festivals. Beautiful, so beautiful. I

1085
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 3: felt like the Brook and Botanic Gardens was Guardians of Galaxy.

1086
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: I know.

1087
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: It was the most gagged by. Were those Bondsie.

1088
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: Trees are just out there.

1089
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 4: Ye oh my god.

1090
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 2: I love to go for food and wine. Yeah, I'll

1091
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 2: just go in there by myself and knock down some mapsally,

1092
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: oh my god. They were in technical rehearsal when we

1093
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: did it, so I can tell there was like some

1094
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:08,879
Speaker 2: fog effects and some stuffs turned off.

1095
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: Okay, they're gonna figure out.

1096
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 4: I'm excited.

1097
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: Does newness kind of like have this like counter force

1098
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: to it where it's like it makes you nostalgia because

1099
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: now because it going to Epic made me want to

1100
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: like go to Universal and just go in the old

1101
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: rides or just go to Disney. Yeah, the Classic rights too,

1102
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, oh, this kind of opens it

1103
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: up to like everything for me, where I'm like, I

1104
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: want to do it all.

1105
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1106
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 3: Honestly, part of you know, not to with Marcia's like

1107
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 3: part of one drag became so pop culture. I was

1108
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 3: so interested in the origins. Yeah, right, Like I don't

1109
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: know if you're familiar with the Angels of Light, but

1110
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 3: they came out of the Cocketts and the Bay glitter beards.

1111
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: Like so many of the looks that we're seeing these

1112
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 3: days came from like Marcia Angels of Light and also

1113
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 3: the Hot Peaches, right, these like early sixties seventies performers,

1114
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 3: And so to me, I'm always about like that nostalgia.

1115
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 4: I'm a cancer, so like.

1116
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, the nostalgia of it all, but yeah, I fall

1117
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 3: into that. I went to Islands of Adventure for the

1118
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 3: first time when I was sixteen in two thousand and

1119
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 3: it blew my mind, there was like the dueling dragone

1120
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 3: and all of that, and then I went I hadn't

1121
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 3: gone back for so many years, and I wasn't sure,

1122
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 3: like how's it going.

1123
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 4: It's gonna feel comfortable? Is it going to feel safe?

1124
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 3: And the thing that I really was paying attention was like,

1125
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 3: I remember when this when I was this year old,

1126
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 3: and I was blown away, and now it's like evolved

1127
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 3: into this other beautiful things capturing my imagination. So I'm

1128
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 3: kind of like in between that that nostalgia and the wow,

1129
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: totally evolution.

1130
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 4: Of it all.

1131
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: And like I think I went to like a La

1132
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: Mama show, Oh yeah, like ten years ago or something,

1133
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: and like I think you like shed light on like

1134
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: the way that like all these different theater communities were

1135
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: intertwined together, especially in the seventies, yeah, or especially when

1136
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: Marsha was performing in them. So like was it was

1137
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: hot Peaches and Angels of Light? Was that coming from

1138
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: like theater for the New City? Know, like like like

1139
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: break it down for me?

1140
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1141
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 3: So okay, So Marsha performed at Theater of the New City, Yes,

1142
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 3: with the Angels of Lying so like the Jane Hotel

1143
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 3: right now. So and also LaMaMa and all of these

1144
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 3: really beautiful places. The hibiscus came out of the cockettes

1145
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 3: and Angel Jack and so they really created something that

1146
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 3: had never been seen before. Right. Their performances included like

1147
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 3: the Enchanted Miracle, where a big storybook was on stage

1148
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 3: and for each new scene, the page.

1149
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 4: Would be turned.

1150
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 3: It was this like you know technology, right, this immersive

1151
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 3: experience that the audience was really getting into. And Marcia

1152
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 3: did this really great thing of direct address with the audience,

1153
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 3: let her rift.

1154
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 4: She was so good. She'd be like, hello, Sylvia, you know.

1155
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 3: And there's this beautiful recording of Sylvia Rivera, who I

1156
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 3: think a lot of times we just think of as

1157
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 3: an activist.

1158
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: Sure, but she's.

1159
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 3: Talking about seeing Marcia on stage dressed as a queen

1160
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 3: from a faraway land and like going after this person

1161
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 3: who stole her lover and is just screaming at the

1162
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 3: top of the lungs, at the top of her lungs,

1163
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,919
Speaker 3: and the audience is growing and getting more and more ecstatic,

1164
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: and Marcia was plugging in the light for so many

1165
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 3: people in that moment. So I think that was that

1166
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 3: early kind of drag performance work, was plugging in the light.

1167
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 4: For the audience that was growing.

1168
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that you speak in this in this metaphor,

1169
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: and I that's such a great model for like anyone

1170
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 1: would be so lucky to create a space where people

1171
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: go to plug to plug.

1172
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 3: In exactly, you know what I mean exactly, And I

1173
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 3: think that's what culture at its best does, and that's

1174
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 3: what your podcast does.

1175
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 4: Like you're both doing it all the time. I was

1176
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 4: watching episodes of Game Show.

1177
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, And you know, like you've

1178
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 3: been like, we're all doing it right like, and I

1179
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 3: think that's what we're aspiring to do, is like create spaces,

1180
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 3: whether it's a podcast or a game show or SNL

1181
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 3: or a film, where we're at we're able to plug

1182
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 3: in and we're able to leave transformed. We're able to

1183
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: go from black and white to technical, or we're able

1184
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 3: to like go through the portal and experience something incredibly

1185
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: immersive and then be like I can do that, can

1186
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 3: do that, and it doesn't have to stay right here,

1187
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 3: I can do it everywhere.

1188
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: One of my favorite lines from any piece of art

1189
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,439
Speaker 2: I've seen I've heard over the past couple of years

1190
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 2: is there's this play the Hills of California that's on

1191
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 2: Broadway now, and there's this beautiful part where she goes

1192
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: over to the piano with the character and she says,

1193
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: you know, talking about music and talking about songs. She's like,

1194
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 2: a song is just a place to live for three minutes. Yeah,

1195
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 2: And I was just like, that's why music is my escape.

1196
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: And that connected to everything from when I was younger

1197
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: about that thing of like walking into this area where

1198
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 2: all of a sudden there was something else. It was

1199
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: just like, I think that that is another reason why

1200
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: a lot of queer people gravitate towards that does theme park.

1201
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: There is a big gay community.

1202
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: Because I think what I was saying earlier was I

1203
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 2: didn't realize it, but I needed a place to be

1204
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: that wasn't my own head or my own reality, because

1205
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: there was this thing encroaching, which was you don't belong here.

1206
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: I don't belong here, you don't belong here. And suddenly

1207
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 2: it didn't matter what the rules were in a world

1208
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: that's fake and immersive. Exact, a song is a place

1209
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: to live for three minutes. It's like, when I feel

1210
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 2: like I want to escape whatever it is, I will

1211
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: put on a song that it listits to a certain emotion

1212
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 2: because in that emotion, it's also changing the reality.

1213
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 4: That's exactly right.

1214
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 3: And you're moving from sometimes a place of despair to

1215
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 3: a place of anger, to a place of like, you know, optimism,

1216
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,439
Speaker 3: to a place of hope, and then to a place

1217
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 3: of like positive expectation and knowing that things are going

1218
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 3: to be okay.

1219
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 4: And that's the song's power.

1220
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 2: Yes, or even if it's not escaping, Yes, I'm angry

1221
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 2: and I want to feel this at fifteen out of

1222
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 2: ten exactly like yeah, on kinkis Karma by Chapel, Right,

1223
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: I hate boyfriend, you know what I mean? Like it's

1224
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 2: like I need to stop because I'm grieving.

1225
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 3: That's right.

1226
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: I need I want to party. Saw this song.

1227
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: I want to feel like I you know what I'm

1228
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: saying is it's like it's turning up the volume.

1229
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 4: That's exactly right that emotion. Yeah, that's exactly right.

1230
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: I am curious to know, like, yeah, are you done

1231
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: with New York for good?

1232
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 4: Or are you like totally?

1233
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 3: So I moved to Miami because my partner is an

1234
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 3: environmental lawyer, and she is that's where she's working, and

1235
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 3: there's so I moved after twenty two years. I was

1236
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 3: saying like I hadn't left New York for longer than

1237
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 3: three weeks ago. Yeah, I like the time I left

1238
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 3: the longest was I was working for de Reese, who

1239
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 3: directed Pariah and Bessie and Mudbound, and I was her assistant.

1240
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: Wow it was a great film, so for Mudbound, and

1241
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 3: you know, so I was in Louisiana and that was

1242
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 3: a really clarifying experience. And I came back to New York, like,

1243
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 3: you know, ready to direct Happy Birthday Marsha Part two.

1244
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 3: And I think I'm having a similar powerful experience where

1245
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful for the artists and the organizers and

1246
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 3: the friends in Miami who are really received me so warmly.

1247
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 3: There's so much happening in that city that people organizing

1248
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 3: around and are affected by. And also I don't know,

1249
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 3: I do feel this is my home, like my mom

1250
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 3: lives here and my siblings and.

1251
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: So you know, this is it's home.

1252
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, exactly, it's But I live

1253
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 3: in this beautiful neighborhood of Miami called Coconut Grove. It's

1254
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 3: like oh, historically Bahamian community. Yeah, and it's so lush

1255
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 3: and I feel it in my body, like how much

1256
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 3: it makes sense, And there's like hundreds of peacocks walking

1257
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 3: around my neighborhood and my cat is so happy.

1258
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean honestly, sometimes I feel like you

1259
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 2: just get used to a certain pace of life that

1260
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 2: you realize it's unreasonable once you go somewhere else and

1261
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 2: just allow yourself to It's like I needed to leave

1262
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 2: New York when I did, Yeah, and I was, I

1263
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: just it's really interesting because I came back. And what

1264
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: I've been saying to people that are like, oh, why

1265
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 2: did you come back, It's like, because the things you

1266
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 2: didn't like or don't like about New York are all

1267
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 2: kinds of things you can change, Like they're all individual.

1268
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 2: It's like everywhere else, it's like you're gonna have to

1269
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: deal with what it is. But New York is a

1270
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 2: lot more multifaceted and yeah, much many more experiences. There

1271
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 2: are many kinds of lifestyles there than I think I

1272
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 2: thought totally, And so I think I needed to go

1273
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: away and have my shoulders drop to come here and

1274
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 2: understand how to drop them. In New York City, you know,

1275
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 2: you're on guard all the time and ready to go

1276
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 2: all the time, and like, you know, got your armor

1277
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 2: on and you know, ready to go. But then you

1278
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 2: can come back and be like, now that I've like

1279
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 2: as an adult lived somewhere else, I can be an

1280
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: actual adult.

1281
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 4: That's right. Yeah, No, it's that transition moment so unnecessary.

1282
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, truly. Yeah, I did feel in reading the book though,

1283
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: like everything about my life in New York, it's like

1284
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: you end, you end with the thank you, you say

1285
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: thank you, Marsha, and the whole time, even before I

1286
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: got to the ending, I'm just like, I I owe

1287
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: everything to this one person who has been in like

1288
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: my consciousness for as long as I've like read up

1289
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: on queer history. But I also like I cannot even

1290
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: begin to understand like all the material things about my

1291
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: life that like wouldn't be possible without her.

1292
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, that's why I ended with thank you Marcia.

1293
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 3: It felt like, you know, I started learning about Marcia

1294
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 3: over twenty years ago, and it's just felt like a gift.

1295
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 3: So to know her in a particular kind of like

1296
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 3: spiritual sense and to get close to the people who

1297
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 3: I named who are still around here right now kind

1298
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 3: a physical sense. And so that's the spirit that I

1299
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 3: hoped to offer through the book. It's like I received

1300
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,439
Speaker 3: this gift. I would love to share this gift with

1301
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 3: everyone and take it how you will. But for me,

1302
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 3: it just it felt really important to move through that

1303
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 3: spirit of generosity.

1304
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: Even parted that in such a huge way and like

1305
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: just down to like my own individual history. And I'd

1306
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: like Matt's too of like, oh my god, like that downstream.

1307
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: Was it a sit in or what would you call it?

1308
01:02:53,440 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they Marsha and Silver, Yeah, they had an

1309
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 3: occupation in nineteen seventy September of Weinstein Hall.

1310
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 4: They took it over, right.

1311
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,479
Speaker 3: They were the street queens living in Washington Square Park

1312
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 3: and they were like NYU, New York University is refusing

1313
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 3: to have gay dance parties in the heart of this,

1314
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 3: you know, haven for queer and trans people.

1315
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,439
Speaker 4: That's not okay. We're gonna take it over.

1316
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 3: And it was this really beautiful moment where they were

1317
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 3: modeling what they dreamed up in those hourly hotels. They

1318
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 3: dreamed up a sense of connection and community. Marsha was

1319
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 3: making food. They were, you know, kind of modeling after

1320
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 3: the Black Panther Party two where everyone was invited to eat,

1321
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 3: and so they were just like creating the world that

1322
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 3: they wanted to live in. Sometimes we call that prefiguring

1323
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 3: the world that we want, right, and they were doing

1324
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 3: that kind of prefiguration.

1325
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were in the basement. They're in the basement,

1326
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: which is where the buffet dining hall was when we

1327
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: went there. It was where you would go to like

1328
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: get your hangover omeland. Like the fact that like, yes,

1329
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: that's where they were living. It all, like it all

1330
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: like start like a year after Stone while this is

1331
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 1: where like this was like the the extension the continuation

1332
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: that was happening, like where like I was like eating

1333
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: my home fries.

1334
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 2: Bitching about the craft of writing.

1335
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: You know what, wouldn't we wouldn't have gone to it,

1336
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: like Ny you probably like I think you already right

1337
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: at time. Like also wasn't really even admitting a lot

1338
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: of queer students exactly. It's like we're and like we're there.

1339
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 1: We're there because of them.

1340
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1341
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 3: And also they were doing these incredible like they were

1342
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 3: dreaming about things in the basement of n y U

1343
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 3: where y'all were hungover about, like access to gender firm

1344
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 3: and care. Right, they were literally talking about access to

1345
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 3: medical care. They were talking about also for things that

1346
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 3: didn't directly affect them, for you know, sist women to

1347
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 3: have daycare so they could attend college, for college to

1348
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 3: be free, for you know, housing. It was really important

1349
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 3: for them to dream up because they knew that you

1350
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 3: two would come along and be the benef fisheries of

1351
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 3: the dream and you need to necessarily do the same thing.

1352
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: I think you write about this in the book where

1353
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: it's like their transness was the thing that like was

1354
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: able to confer like possibility onto like a huge mass

1355
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: group of people, like the world exactly the literal world,

1356
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: literal world. I learned so much reading this.

1357
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for reading it. I'm engaging in this

1358
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: space should be on the dollar, and it amazing and

1359
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 2: you did incredible work. And I have to imagine that

1360
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 2: this was not easy and.

1361
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: It must years.

1362
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 3: Well, I was writing for five years and then before

1363
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 3: that it was like fifteen years of research. But it

1364
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 3: felt like a gift, Like it honestly felt every time

1365
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 3: I learned something new or I met someone who was

1366
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 3: grumpy and lived you know, like and who knew Marsha

1367
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 3: but lent ended the conversation really joyful.

1368
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 4: All of it. It just felt like all of.

1369
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 2: That is exactly what we were talking about earlier with

1370
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 2: like you know, the lack of quote unquote correct recollection.

1371
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 2: It's like people are all the things and that is

1372
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 2: that is what makes her not just you know, someone

1373
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 2: who's a source on stone Wall and that area in

1374
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 2: that time, but she is that time and it is

1375
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 2: it is all those things, and so we're gonna do

1376
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 2: I don't think so, honey, But Marsha, Okay, I have something.

1377
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: But I don't think so honey.

1378
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: And it involves my sister.

1379
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: Hey you all right, this is oh me, all right,

1380
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: this is I don't think somebody this is the one

1381
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: minute segment in which we take one minute to rage

1382
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: in the culture. Matt Rogers has something, is Matt Rodgers.

1383
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Many's time starts now.

1384
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 2: I don't think so honey. Why haven't they got my

1385
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 2: girl Bowen Yang at the mcdala.

1386
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: Oh, my boy should have been at No.

1387
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: I want the invitation in the mail for next year.

1388
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 2: Already you would have got a suit you tailored Michael

1389
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 2: Fisher at m John f scroll through. Look at my

1390
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 2: girl slaying every look. You know he's a fashion icon.

1391
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 2: What was that photo show you did with the Pikachu backpack?

1392
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 5: Oh?

1393
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: That was on Ryan McGinley for New Yorker.

1394
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 2: That was an award winning photo shoot with award winning

1395
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 2: styling and an award winning subject. Why isn't my girl

1396
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 2: at the med Gala? I want to see my girl

1397
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: walking up the steps. I want to see him ignoring

1398
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 2: the press. I want to see him in a hat.

1399
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: I want to see him doing a daring fashion.

1400
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 1: And here's the thing.

1401
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 2: If Bowie nan inviting, I'm never getting invited.

1402
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: And I want to go to the Meddala. I don't understand.

1403
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 1: This makes my chances of being.

1404
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 2: Invited much less.

1405
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 4: A weekend.

1406
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 1: I'll tell you his address. It's that's beautiful. Well, listen,

1407
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,439
Speaker 1: I kind of preferred this watching from home.

1408
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:58,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what, Just go to the carpet,

1409
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 2: get the phone out on the side, don't get in trouble.

1410
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: Megan the Stallion. Did I've seen Oceans eight? I know

1411
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: what what's going on inside.

1412
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 3: To go.

1413
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 2: I don't need to go to the Macala. I've seen

1414
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 2: ocean that's a lottal culture number sixty. I need to

1415
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 2: go to the Medala. I've seen oceans A.

1416
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 4: Literally it's shocking.

1417
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 3: I thought you had I just wow, my goodness, but

1418
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 3: it doesn't it just make sense.

1419
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: I feel like.

1420
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 2: This because it was all about suiting. I mean, what

1421
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 2: did you think of the mecal?

1422
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 4: I thought it was fab.

1423
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really great. It was a great. Yeah great, Yeah, no,

1424
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: I think that. To quote Marcia, it's like the party

1425
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 1: is wherever she goes.

1426
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 2: You're right, the party. The party was at at your

1427
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 2: dress last night.

1428
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 1: The party was that was that my I had people

1429
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: over invited you over? How many people did you have?

1430
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:44,639
Speaker 3: Order?

1431
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 1: It's just four of us. It's just me, josh oh.

1432
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 2: Okay, but I was in the weeds moving again, like

1433
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 2: you know how it is.

1434
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 1: We talked about it.

1435
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:58,600
Speaker 2: But another time we'll hang out. Okay, bohen Yang, do

1436
01:08:58,720 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 2: you have and I don't.

1437
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 1: Think I haven't. I don't think so, honey. I love

1438
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: to hear it.

1439
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 2: Okay, this is Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey.

1440
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 2: His time starts now.

1441
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. Make Time Square dirty, filthy

1442
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: horny again. Yes, Times Square at Times Square, Blu. This

1443
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: is why Time Square is so important the city. You

1444
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: need cross class interaction in every great city. That is

1445
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 1: how you engender solidarity. That is how you get people

1446
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 1: to work together to solve problems. We can't be silent

1447
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:27,799
Speaker 1: in our neighborhoods now, and I especially don't think so. Honey.

1448
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 1: Another neighborhood, the West Village, being overtaken by these girlies

1449
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 1: who are like just doing their silly little tiktoks. Nothing

1450
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 1: wrong with that, it's just it cannot be all the

1451
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,520
Speaker 1: tone of that neighborhood anymore. That is a rich neighborhood

1452
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 1: in terms of history and wealth, let's say. But it's

1453
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 1: just we need our neighborhoods to retain some of their authenticity.

1454
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 1: Times Square being all like eminem Storre McDonald's is funny

1455
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: and ironic, and I think there's a huge opportunity or

1456
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: to make those spaces fun and crazy and absurd, Like

1457
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: let's make those like weird, sexy, horny places, you know

1458
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: what I mean. I catch me cruising at the Olive

1459
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:05,440
Speaker 1: Garden at the Madame.

1460
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 2: Tusso's, and that's one minute, you know what I mean?

1461
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: Like, when't be fun to just like make Time Square

1462
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: a little bit like filthier again, bring back, just make

1463
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: that fun because because we used to work here all

1464
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: the time, we're down there like by the drop of bookshop,

1465
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: and I can i can see the bones of when

1466
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: this was. This had like character to Yes, you can

1467
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 1: still feel it, but it's like but otherwise it's like sanitized,

1468
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: and I'm like exactly, like it's still there.

1469
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, you.

1470
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 2: Can still smell the cum on the wall, A little

1471
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 2: old rose.

1472
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 3: There.

1473
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 1: You go.

1474
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 3: All right, so it's yours, it's your turn. Okay, do

1475
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 3: you have something? I have a little bit of something.

1476
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,600
Speaker 1: Okay, let's let's blow it out to a lot of

1477
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: bit of a something.

1478
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 4: Okay, help me, you know, all right?

1479
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is tomaling. I don't think some money.

1480
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 1: Her time starts now, Okay.

1481
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 3: I don't think so honey, to this small time dreaming.

1482
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 3: We are literally in a moment as the empire is

1483
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 3: collapsing in, our economy is dusted, dusting that like, we're

1484
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 3: all saying it's time to go after your dreams. There

1485
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 3: is no point carving out a small space on a

1486
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 3: sinking ship just for our survival. Now is the time

1487
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 3: to dream. As big as the problems are. This is

1488
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 3: how we transform the world.

1489
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a fucking writer, a poet.

1490
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 2: Test said it in less words and more poignantly.

1491
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean something about you saying like big problems

1492
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: call for inspire big solutions, Like that's tea.

1493
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 3: I really feel that way, you know, like I really

1494
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 3: really feel that way.

1495
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,520
Speaker 1: And this is the this is the actual time.

1496
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 3: Exactly and you can feel it right like we can

1497
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 3: feel this thing not working. It is so clear that

1498
01:11:55,560 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 3: this moment is illuminating. How it's not lasting? Yeah, So

1499
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 3: why not, like why not be inspired to think of

1500
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:05,839
Speaker 3: a dream that's a little bit bigger than the empire

1501
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 3: that's crumbling around it?

1502
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 1: Totally like, well, what is there to lose?

1503
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 4: What is there to lose?

1504
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: Yet?

1505
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,759
Speaker 4: Absolutely literally nothing?

1506
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 2: I mean, Arthene Perks, You've really done something here. I mean,

1507
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 2: this is Marcia The Joy and Defiance of Marshall P.

1508
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: Johnson.

1509
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 2: It is out May twentieth, and you would enrich yourself

1510
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 2: to read it. You don't have to be queer, you

1511
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 2: don't have to be a New Yorker, you don't have

1512
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 2: to be someone that's interested in history. You could be

1513
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,120
Speaker 2: all those things and more and you would get so

1514
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 2: much out of this. It's beautiful work, and we thank

1515
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:41,679
Speaker 2: you so much for coming on the show.

1516
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:43,759
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. It really means

1517
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 3: a lot, and it means a lot that you read

1518
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 3: and engaged the book and shared so much about how

1519
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 3: it affected you and your own stories. And I'm just

1520
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 3: thinking about Marcia and you in the basement of Weinstein's

1521
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 3: time traveling with the two drunk you know, up and

1522
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 3: coming girly.

1523
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 1: Yea circle we did.

1524
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, Yeah, yeahlations being.

1525
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 1: Every episode of the song. We end every episode of

1526
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: the song. Don't you know that I heard the great Bye.

1527
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 4: Long Well?

1528
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: You know I'm realisting now? Is that the melody?

1529
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 2: This is the one marketing I don't I mean, you know,

1530
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 2: I used to know it because I used to do

1531
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 2: it on the American Idol all the time.

1532
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: That's my little white lay and singing.

1533
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 5: Bye ye.

1534
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 1: Last. Culturists is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money

1535
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 1: Players and The Heart Radio.

1536
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 2: Podcasts, created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yet

1537
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 2: executive produced by Anna Hasni and

1538
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 1: Produced by Becker Ramos, edited mixed by Jack bam Manicho

1539
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: Boord and our music is by Henry Komerski, yahm