Speaker 1: On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello and
Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Dronte
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, and we talk about the portrayal women in movie,
Speaker 1: but mostly on this podcast. Actually that's maybe maybe it's
Speaker 1: an even split at this point. Yeah. We're always texting
Speaker 1: each other being like, hey, did you see this movie?
Speaker 1: What you think? And usually I'm like I didn't see it,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, okay, let's hang out. Yeah that's fun.
Speaker 1: That's a nice little friendship. Yeah, it's really really wonderful.
Speaker 1: That's good. Um, So we use the Bechdel Test, a
Speaker 1: test evented by cartoonist Ales and Betel. So we use
Speaker 1: the Bechtel dost is jumping off point to take a
Speaker 1: look at some of your favorite movies. Our definition of
Speaker 1: that is uh scene in a piece of media must
Speaker 1: include two female identifying characters with names who talk about
Speaker 1: something other than a man for more than two lines
Speaker 1: of dialogue. I think it would be easy, you would think,
Speaker 1: and yet you would be interesting is to like crunch
Speaker 1: like one of those A FI lists or something, and
Speaker 1: figure out how many of those movies actually uh it's
Speaker 1: like or less. That seems reasonable. Yeah. I also there
Speaker 1: was something someone tweeted us this morning. When then we'll
Speaker 1: get into the episodic promise. But someone who just listened
Speaker 1: to our bendit like Beckham episode, and they tweeted this
Speaker 1: stray thought that's really been haunting me, which is like,
Speaker 1: what a season to be haunted? Hated? Okay, but he
Speaker 1: tweeted at us that he could think, off the top
Speaker 1: of his head more sports movies that starred animals than
Speaker 1: started human women. Yeah. I think we talked about that
Speaker 1: in that episode. Maybe he's just quoting us, maybe we're geniuses.
Speaker 1: But I was like, oh my god, he's so smart.
Speaker 1: Maybe we're so smart, right, because we talked about like
Speaker 1: air Bud and then various air Bud spin off. My
Speaker 1: favorite m v P Most Valuable Primate, Yes, the Hockey movie.
Speaker 1: I love that one. Oh god, you I mean you
Speaker 1: say that and then you're like, but I do want
Speaker 1: to see a monkey play a goalie. So I guess
Speaker 1: we just need more movies with women and more movies
Speaker 1: with animals and less movies with men. That's what I meant.
Speaker 1: Yes anyways, and speaking of, you know, being horrified at
Speaker 1: the representation of women in film, Yeah, yeah, where you
Speaker 1: go with this? Let's go shopping is what I was
Speaker 1: going to suggesting. So, yes, let us talk about the
Speaker 1: movie we're here to talk about today, But first, why
Speaker 1: don't we introduce our guests. She is a writer on
Speaker 1: ThunderCats Roar on Cartoon Network, also a writer on Yapadaba
Speaker 1: Dinosaurs on Boomerang, and performs regularly at U C b
Speaker 1: l A. Joan Ford say next year, all those shows
Speaker 1: will out next year. Yeah, so be on the lookout.
Speaker 1: Don't stop looking out, never stop your TV two into
Speaker 1: Cartoon Network, your day and your perch, your little crow's nest, Titanic,
Speaker 1: keep your eyes on the horizon for new media. My
Speaker 1: mom always used to say to me when I was younger,
Speaker 1: to be alert and aware, which I think both applies
Speaker 1: to you know specifically and only that, But she was
Speaker 1: also like, you know, stay safe, be aware of your surroundings,
Speaker 1: and be alert, which applies to horror movies too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're like, you've got nineteen different Segways and loaded today.
Speaker 1: There it's my segway of life. You're like Paul because
Speaker 1: you love segways. Oh, because they should come up with
Speaker 1: a new Paul Blart where he gets into birds. Oh god,
Speaker 1: the Pratt Falls Paul Blart would do off a bird scooter.
Speaker 1: I tell you not to encourage more movies starring Kevin James. Right,
Speaker 1: although maybe it's time for like a female Paul Art.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's time to gender gender swap. That franchise is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of unbelievable that we're the first person to think
Speaker 1: of that. I feel like a high school that's already
Speaker 1: was like a high school. There's YouTube video what if
Speaker 1: PAULA Blart? And so wait, what's the movie today? Well,
Speaker 1: speaking of strong female protagonists, we're talking about Scream, the
Speaker 1: first one directed by Wes Anderson from nineteen nine six
Speaker 1: No Wake. What did I say that Anderson is someone
Speaker 1: has made that YouTube video Wes Anderson screen and a
Speaker 1: lot of very center of frame murders. Yeah. I really
Speaker 1: literally looking at the name Craven right in front of me,
Speaker 1: and I still said West Anderson. Okay, to be fair,
Speaker 1: it's a silly last name. Yeah, that a horror master
Speaker 1: should be so Craven, that's it's yeah. There was already
Speaker 1: a fake trailer of Paula Blart released where Melissa McCarthy,
Speaker 1: you know, someone got there where the time McCarthy was
Speaker 1: a pass if you can believe. Okay, so we're what
Speaker 1: we are talking about is Scream, directed by Wes Craven. Craven, Joan,
Speaker 1: what is your history your relationship with this movie? Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, well, um, are you talking about this? Because
Speaker 1: I'm going to date myself. But I was very much
Speaker 1: like the target audience for this movie when it came out.
Speaker 1: I was this actually came out on the weekend of
Speaker 1: my like sixteenth birthday. Okay, so can I take us
Speaker 1: all back to like Winter? So I don't know if
Speaker 1: like people realize this now, especially if they kind of
Speaker 1: like came up like after the movie. But like it
Speaker 1: wasn't just that like Scream was like not expect to
Speaker 1: do well. It was like expected to like bomb, like
Speaker 1: they buried that movie because that Winter, like it came
Speaker 1: out the same weekend that like all these big Christmas
Speaker 1: movies came out, like Mars Attacks and Jerry McGuire and
Speaker 1: he was about how do America and like all those movies,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna like bury scream. In fact, I remember
Speaker 1: it didn't even come to like the main theater in
Speaker 1: my town. It opened in the like three dollar cheap
Speaker 1: theater because they just expected a bomb, and I was
Speaker 1: like a big horr nerd and I was really excited
Speaker 1: to see it. But like just I remember that like
Speaker 1: it opening and no one really thinking now that and
Speaker 1: then it kind of like slowly like picked up steam
Speaker 1: to the point that it got screen. It got like
Speaker 1: it got like moved over, eventually got moved over to
Speaker 1: the big theater, and that like holiday break, moving into
Speaker 1: that like first couple of weeks of January in school,
Speaker 1: like it became this thing that everybody was talking about,
Speaker 1: everybody was going to see, and like all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it was cool to like be into horror and
Speaker 1: like that was it was this very fun like communal
Speaker 1: thing where like everybody like I want to see it
Speaker 1: a couple of times in theaters, and like you would
Speaker 1: always run into people you kind of knew. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just like it was fun and it would
Speaker 1: it made me feel like, oh, something I like is
Speaker 1: cool now, because like I said, you know, I was
Speaker 1: like a kid who grew up like reading fangoria and
Speaker 1: like writing letters to like horror directors and so yeah,
Speaker 1: it made me feel like it gave me a little
Speaker 1: bit of a community, and like for the rest of
Speaker 1: my high school I had like horror friends because of that.
Speaker 1: Like I remember going to the Bride of Chucky with
Speaker 1: the cool kids after that. Yeah, because the cool kids
Speaker 1: were seeing Bride of screen made it okay, go see
Speaker 1: Bride of Chucky excellent. I was also, yeah, like you were.
Speaker 1: I was really surprised to see this movie came out
Speaker 1: during the Christmas season, because you would think it would
Speaker 1: be for sure in October at least. That's so you
Speaker 1: can't kill Scream. You can't. And I would say, if
Speaker 1: I was looking at and knew nothing about this movie,
Speaker 1: and I hadn't already heard so many amazing things about it,
Speaker 1: if I saw the Villain, I'd be like, probably this
Speaker 1: movie sucks. If I saw it like the Mask, this
Speaker 1: is this is a goof this is a goofy one.
Speaker 1: But I've my history with this movie is of course
Speaker 1: I watched it this morning, Yes, and before that, I
Speaker 1: just I knew I loved Matthew Lillard and I was like,
Speaker 1: let's roll the diet says Lillard's number one fan, because
Speaker 1: I'll watch any Lillard joint and I will say spoilers
Speaker 1: for everyone listening. I was still on Caitlin when I
Speaker 1: hunt in today that you know, like, for me, it
Speaker 1: seemed so clear because Lillard did not die right away
Speaker 1: because he's such a DUFs that he was involved, because
Speaker 1: when when it gets to be the forty five minute mark,
Speaker 1: You're like, Lillard, what is he? So? Anyways, and and
Speaker 1: Lillard and Nev Campbell were dating on the set of screen.
Speaker 1: Wait what I know? I hate it too. I mean Lillard,
Speaker 1: what a lucky guy. Yeah, what a what a reach?
Speaker 1: But you know he went for it and it worked
Speaker 1: out good for him. I guess, is this this that
Speaker 1: the Courtney Cox and David or Cutt meet Onlieve? So yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a hot set. Yeah, everyone's
Speaker 1: fucking momentary. Yeah yeah. So my history with this movie
Speaker 1: is I did not see any of the movies in
Speaker 1: these Dream franchise until I think two thousand eleven before
Speaker 1: the fourth one came out. So my friend j T,
Speaker 1: friend of the cast Twilight episode is a big scream
Speaker 1: head and he was like, look, we're gonna go see
Speaker 1: Scream four and you have to prepare. So we like
Speaker 1: sat down and had a little Scream marathon. So I
Speaker 1: didn't watch any of them until then, and I was like,
Speaker 1: these are fun, this is great. Uh. And then I
Speaker 1: just rewatched all four again in preparation of this episode,
Speaker 1: and I like these movies even more now. I'm like,
Speaker 1: these are so freaking fun. They're so fun. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: still stuff to talk about that. My first horror franchise
Speaker 1: or slashy franchise that I really loved was Final Destination.
Speaker 1: But I'm pretty sure Final Destination came out on the
Speaker 1: success of movies Scream, right, that's post Scream. I think
Speaker 1: that I want to say that was two thousand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, there's that whole wait. Like horror was really
Speaker 1: kind of like dead as a genre before Scream, Like
Speaker 1: there was this like after kind of like the early nineties,
Speaker 1: Corror kind of went away after like the like Jason
Speaker 1: Freddie Chucky Boom. Yeah, like everyone thought for it was dead,
Speaker 1: even like Wes Craven was coming off of like a
Speaker 1: string of flops. That's everyone's so surprised, and Scream hit
Speaker 1: so big people were ready, yeah, ready for hor to
Speaker 1: be reinvented. Did you see all the Harry I'm going
Speaker 1: to just keep bringing up Matthew Lillard this whole thing.
Speaker 1: Did you see the Matthew Lillard cameos and screams two
Speaker 1: and four? I did see that on IMDb, Yes, I did.
Speaker 1: I don't know about this. Where what? Where? Where do
Speaker 1: I look to see Matthew Lard and screams to and
Speaker 1: four crowd scenes? It seems like, Okay, he's just available
Speaker 1: as the scream to the only thing that Matthew Lillard
Speaker 1: did in the year seven. He played Guy at Party uncredited. Uh,
Speaker 1: go forward a little bit to scream for Guy at
Speaker 1: Stabathon uncredited. Okay, so you know he's now Lillard as
Speaker 1: the only person I think in the world living solely
Speaker 1: on a Scooby Doo based income. You know, I think,
Speaker 1: you know he's just around. At the time, he was
Speaker 1: good in um the Twin Peaks Revival. Actually yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm feeling something from Matthew Liard. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I like that I'm empathizing with him. That's
Speaker 1: not good, right, That is something like maybe it's time
Speaker 1: to go on vacation yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember when
Speaker 1: he was on The Good Wife. I lost my mind. Anyways, right,
Speaker 1: he was great. He is good. Okay, So now one
Speaker 1: last thing I wanted to say is while it took
Speaker 1: me a while to see the screen movies, I did
Speaker 1: see all of the Scary movie movies. They were first. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the first Scary Movie is closely a parody of
Speaker 1: the first screen movie. Uh. And I also rewatched like
Speaker 1: the first half of that also to prepare for this episode,
Speaker 1: just because see that, just in case something came up.
Speaker 1: And it is the worst movie in the world. It's
Speaker 1: like the jokes that it relies on are just a
Speaker 1: series of the most problematic jokes in the world. It's
Speaker 1: just it's trash. It's horrible. But I did see those
Speaker 1: and most familiar with That's why I sort of watched
Speaker 1: Scream before I actually saw a Scream. Yeah, you got
Speaker 1: the narrative of Scream before you saw a Scream, because
Speaker 1: it is like that is from just this generation of
Speaker 1: parody movies where it's like, you don't build another story,
Speaker 1: You're just like, let's tell the other story. This movie
Speaker 1: already did, but with more homophobic jokes exactly. It's so
Speaker 1: those movies are so bizarya because there's no there's no
Speaker 1: attempt at commentary on anything. They're like, hey, look at,
Speaker 1: look at, look at let's just beat up the woman
Speaker 1: in every scene, and that's funny. What if they did
Speaker 1: this in the movie, you like, what if the Juno
Speaker 1: got eaten by Alvin and the chipmunkst Oh my god,
Speaker 1: wait wait, I forget which one in one of those
Speaker 1: movie movies. They're all a blur, but there's death like
Speaker 1: one where Alvin and the Chipmunks turned into zombies because
Speaker 1: it was probably are also around like dawn at the
Speaker 1: dead time and they heed, you know, god, that's very late,
Speaker 1: ots upsetting. There is a great video of Ellen Page
Speaker 1: watching that scene and like losing her fucking mind. It's
Speaker 1: very fun. So shall I do the recap? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: so Scream. We opened on a teenager named Casey Becker
Speaker 1: played by Drew Berry more middle part. Drew who was
Speaker 1: originally going to play Sydney interesting but then sketching conflicts
Speaker 1: didn't allow it think a smaller role. But I think
Speaker 1: that was actually better for her. I agree, great, I
Speaker 1: assumed when I saw that scene, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: they could only get Drew for three days. Yeah, yess.
Speaker 1: She she liked was an early champion. In the script,
Speaker 1: she wanted to do it. So she's at home, she's
Speaker 1: getting ready to watch a scary movie and then she
Speaker 1: gets a fun call from an unknown caller who is
Speaker 1: asking her about scary movies, and so situation escalates. He's
Speaker 1: like harassing her. This masked figure shows up and ends
Speaker 1: up killing her and her boyfriend Steve Steve Jock Steve. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a big guy, but not a big enoun not
Speaker 1: big enough to not get murdered. Um. And then we
Speaker 1: meet Sydney Prescott that is Nev Campbell's character, and she's
Speaker 1: a classmate of Casey's. And then we meet a couple
Speaker 1: of Sydney's friends. Among them are her boyfriend Billy played
Speaker 1: by Skeet old Rich rears his little head again, keats
Speaker 1: back on the cast. What was he in? H he
Speaker 1: was in what we've done? Um? What the credit of
Speaker 1: the craft? So that was our last Skeat discussion every October.
Speaker 1: Skeet comes out. We meet her friend Tatum played by
Speaker 1: Rose McGowan. Tatum's boyfriend stew which is Lillard, and then
Speaker 1: their other friend Randy, news of k he's murderer, gets
Speaker 1: spread around, and we also learned that Sydney's mom was
Speaker 1: murdered a year earlier. Also, I know, I mean whatever,
Speaker 1: Billy and Lillard did it. But in the first scene,
Speaker 1: you're like, Lillard's not showing really any empathy towards anyone.
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's two of the obvious choice. He was
Speaker 1: onto him for a moment. One he was like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hooked up with that woman who just died brutally
Speaker 1: a couple of times. I don't freaking care. And they're like,
Speaker 1: what's your alibi? Dude? He's like, I was fucking It.
Speaker 1: Was like, are you serious right now? Lillard? Such poor taste. Yeah,
Speaker 1: murdered Lillard. Okay, So let me meet a compet, a
Speaker 1: sheriff's deputy named Dewey played by David Arquette, and he's
Speaker 1: also Tatum's brother. He's investigating. And then there's a nosey reporter,
Speaker 1: Gail weathers Um that's Courtney Cox's character. She's trying to
Speaker 1: get the scoop on this story. Somebody good outfit. This
Speaker 1: has the best name characters, and like, like horror franchise,
Speaker 1: I think I remember, It's like I will remember the
Speaker 1: name Sydney Prescott, Gayl Weathers and like Cotton Weary to
Speaker 1: like the Day I Die. They're just such great like
Speaker 1: horror movie names. Weary is the most insane name, and
Speaker 1: I just I love it. Also such an insane character,
Speaker 1: but it's like you're supposed to care about this guy
Speaker 1: you never see once in the actual movie. But he
Speaker 1: plays a much more prominent role in Scream Too. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was told skip to see three. Oh I disagree.
Speaker 1: I think two is more fun than three. Wow, And
Speaker 1: Scream four is also romp. So depends on where the
Speaker 1: al right, it depends on where you stand. On jan
Speaker 1: Silent Bob came. I mean, well I was able to
Speaker 1: weather them into grassy, but they took over a season.
Speaker 1: You did not know that. Oh it was a nightmare.
Speaker 1: It was a nightmare. Apparently Kevin Smith wanted to direct
Speaker 1: some episodes, but they're like, you can't because you're a Canadian.
Speaker 1: He's like, okay, can I just like start an entire arc?
Speaker 1: And they let him do that, right, And there's still
Speaker 1: like all the teenage like they're still like girls struggling
Speaker 1: like with their teen pregnancies. But also Jay and Silent
Speaker 1: Bob are there. It's very weird. H Kevin Kevin, okay, Lord.
Speaker 1: So then Sydney gets a call from the killer and
Speaker 1: he is threatening her. Mr scream ms, Mr scream, And
Speaker 1: a moment later, her boyfriend Billy shows up and a
Speaker 1: cell phone drops out of his pocket. Oh. It's also
Speaker 1: worth noting that Sydney is a virgin. She is dealing
Speaker 1: with the grief and trauma of her mom dying. She
Speaker 1: has an underpant's role. She has an underpant's role. Billy's like,
Speaker 1: come on, do some sex stuff with me, and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: you know about my rule and he's like okay. So
Speaker 1: Billy shows up right after she gets this call and
Speaker 1: a cellphone dropped out of his pocket, and it seems
Speaker 1: like maybe he's the killer. So she's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: and he gets arrested because this was a period of
Speaker 1: time when you having a cell phone and a killer,
Speaker 1: to having a cell phone was enough evidence to like
Speaker 1: length like many people with cell phone, he must be
Speaker 1: the killer. She turns on him so fast, like cell phone,
Speaker 1: you're the murderer, right, And that that like kept me
Speaker 1: off Billy's trail for a while. It's like she is
Speaker 1: she is loyal to know she jumped into conclusion so fast.
Speaker 1: Imagine being a danger of being like, no, arrest my
Speaker 1: boyfriend for having a cell phone, except in this movie
Speaker 1: they call them cellulars. It's just like you hear the
Speaker 1: word cellular like eighteen different times to recall it a celly,
Speaker 1: remember that call me? But I only have twelve minutes,
Speaker 1: so make it great. God, yeah, you'd just be cut
Speaker 1: off in the middle of a brilliant thought of your celly.
Speaker 1: So Billy's in jail, but Sydney gets another call from
Speaker 1: the killer, so it can't be Billie scream again. Mr
Speaker 1: Screen calls and he's like, you got the wrong guy.
Speaker 1: And then we learned Sydney had testified against this guy,
Speaker 1: Cotton Weary, who was convicted of killing Sydney's mom. And
Speaker 1: then Gayle snooping around. She's trying to get her story
Speaker 1: um and sending her outfits hair outfits, lots of like
Speaker 1: streaky like blonde highlights. The local news look is on
Speaker 1: full display, and Sydney hates Gail for like exploiting her
Speaker 1: mom's murder for a book deal, and you know Gail,
Speaker 1: She's trying to get closer to Dewey to like get information,
Speaker 1: and you know, they're they're like, you're cute. Also important
Speaker 1: to note, I think, is that like she doesn't think
Speaker 1: Cotton did it. She thinks he's been falsely identified. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Sydney said an innocent man to jail, right, which
Speaker 1: we maybe have seen her did twice now, right, So
Speaker 1: and maybe Gail's onto something. So then the principle of
Speaker 1: their school gets murdered and people are speculating who the
Speaker 1: killer might be. And Randy, their friend, is this like
Speaker 1: horror movie buff and he's like, you know, okay, it's
Speaker 1: got to be by the way, King, Jamie Kennedy. That's
Speaker 1: Jamie Kennedy. Yes, how did I not know? If Lillard
Speaker 1: weren't already in this movie, that would be my central focus.
Speaker 1: But it is. It is Jamie Kennedy of of the
Speaker 1: Experiment Um and your arch nemesis, my arch nemesis. Because
Speaker 1: I'm going to marry into the Kennedy's and I'll be Jamie,
Speaker 1: I'll be v Jamie Kennedy. So but yes, Jamie Kennedy. Okay,
Speaker 1: he's good to know. Stars are out in this movie.
Speaker 1: So then the police trace the calls that were made
Speaker 1: from the killer to Sydney's dad's cellular and they can't
Speaker 1: find him, so like, oh no, Sydney's dad is the killer.
Speaker 1: And then stu throws a party, some people get killed,
Speaker 1: including Tatum in the garage door in a very brutal scene.
Speaker 1: Never go to Lillard's house. Also very strong garage door.
Speaker 1: Like I feel like if I like every garage I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, like breaks at like the drop of a
Speaker 1: pin and it's just be able to lift a full
Speaker 1: person like smash her head into. Also like my garage
Speaker 1: door is a week but also has enough of a
Speaker 1: sensor that it wouldn't it wouldn't it would just be like, oh,
Speaker 1: it would start to slowly rise up. Yeah, a little
Speaker 1: tidbit at that. I like, is that apparently I think
Speaker 1: they did need a stunt double because like Rose McGowen
Speaker 1: was actually been enough that she could get through the
Speaker 1: doggy door. So the rest of the story, they're at
Speaker 1: Stuice party, people are getting killed. Billy and Sydney finally
Speaker 1: have sex and then afterwards she's like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I think you still might be the killer and he's like,
Speaker 1: what do I have to do to prove that I'm not?
Speaker 1: And then he gets stabbed by the killer, and then
Speaker 1: the killer is going after Sydney and the high level prank.
Speaker 1: At this point, I'm like, you're getting stabbed over your
Speaker 1: own weird because moments later we find out that it
Speaker 1: was just you know, the blood that we see was
Speaker 1: just corn syrup, the same as using Carrie, and he
Speaker 1: is in on it. So the killers are revealed to
Speaker 1: be Stu and Billy. Yeah, Lillard, I like, you know,
Speaker 1: he's he never has narrative consequence, right, I was like,
Speaker 1: probably they gave for him. Yeah, all right. So they're
Speaker 1: like telling their whole plan and the whole you know,
Speaker 1: backstory to Sydney and they're the ones who killed her mom.
Speaker 1: It wasn't cotton weary after all right, and you know
Speaker 1: they planned to kill her and frame her dad. But
Speaker 1: then she's like, no, not on my watch, and she
Speaker 1: throws a TV onto Stew's head, and then Gail comes
Speaker 1: in and shoots Billy. Good Bye. Ski. Something that always
Speaker 1: bothered me about the ending is that an important part
Speaker 1: of Skeet and Lillard's plan is that they they're gonna
Speaker 1: like stab each other to like mayself like them look
Speaker 1: selves look like victims. But they do that in the
Speaker 1: middle of the plan, and it's like wait until, like
Speaker 1: you've gotten everything else done, then stab each other. Don't
Speaker 1: do it? Like that's not step like two that step, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not so bright. Yeah, if only they could do
Speaker 1: a second pass at that. They should they should have
Speaker 1: workshop de yeah, and they should have taken it to
Speaker 1: they should have gone to a local jail, run it
Speaker 1: by an actual murderer. Like, so, if you could do
Speaker 1: it over and get away with it, what would you
Speaker 1: do different? Yeah, because yeah, like most murders involved, you're
Speaker 1: stabbing yourself, look like a victim. Do your homework. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there's, you know, a running theme throughout the
Speaker 1: movie because they're watching Halloween and the different things that
Speaker 1: are happening in slasher movies are sort of informing what's Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the two bad guys die at the end, Sydney
Speaker 1: emerges triumphant, and that is the end of the movie.
Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and then we'll come
Speaker 1: right back. All right, we're back. Yeah, I was waiting,
Speaker 1: Sorry for the break took so long. I was waiting
Speaker 1: for Matthew Lillard. He's my assistant now, yeah, and I
Speaker 1: was waiting for him to bring me my soup, and
Speaker 1: I was on the phone room He's screaming, Allard, where's
Speaker 1: my soup. This is a joke that's just for me,
Speaker 1: and I enjoy it anyways, Scream, welcome back, there we are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, this is like a super meta slasher
Speaker 1: movie that spends a lot of time like calling attention
Speaker 1: to the tropes of popular horror movies, and like the
Speaker 1: characters of Scream keep alluding to the fact that their
Speaker 1: situation is just like a horror movie, right, and then
Speaker 1: like as the Scream sequels go, this happens more and
Speaker 1: more they get even more meta. There's even more references.
Speaker 1: They're making movies about the events of the first movie,
Speaker 1: Like everybody from the first movie is brought on as
Speaker 1: creative consultant. Yeah. There. It seems like in general, and
Speaker 1: I'm not like a horror buff, I've seen just the basics.
Speaker 1: It seems like it's a very self referential genre in general.
Speaker 1: Where like this movie and we just recorded our Halloween
Speaker 1: episode yesterday. This movie clearly pulls from Halloween very heavily.
Speaker 1: But even in Halloween in the late seventies, they're watching
Speaker 1: horror movies from like the forties and fifties. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it helps to acknowledge that you
Speaker 1: have horror movies taking place in a world where people
Speaker 1: know horror movie conventions. And I don't know, I think
Speaker 1: I especially liked it and Scream because there it's all
Speaker 1: over the place, right. For example, one of the things
Speaker 1: that happens is that the movie cause attention to different
Speaker 1: like kind of frustrating choices of the characters will make
Speaker 1: in horror movies where in the beginning, I think Sydney
Speaker 1: is talking on the phone to the killer and she's like,
Speaker 1: I don't watch scary movies. It's all the same thing.
Speaker 1: Some stupid killer is talking a big breasted girl who
Speaker 1: can't act, who is always running up the stairs when
Speaker 1: she should be running out the front door, and then
Speaker 1: moments later circumstances which she runs up the stairs. So
Speaker 1: it's like clever, funny things like that that I enjoy.
Speaker 1: And then like the Randy character, who is a horror buff,
Speaker 1: is like always rattling off like these are the rules
Speaker 1: like here the troupes like that. Even at the beginning,
Speaker 1: I think, like Drew Barry Morris has that line about
Speaker 1: you know, it's always they are always casting people who
Speaker 1: are way too old for these parts, and the joke
Speaker 1: is that Drew Barrymore is like way too old, but
Speaker 1: there's only twenty one at the time. Yeah, like I
Speaker 1: styled her to look older. Yeah, I think they, but
Speaker 1: like it's like, god damn it, like Matthew Broderick got
Speaker 1: to play Ferris Bueller on even twenty four. I don't think, like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's weird because there's sometimes when movies are
Speaker 1: too referential that rubs me the wrong way, and then
Speaker 1: you get into like Shrek territory of like so referencing
Speaker 1: that without the references there is no substance. But I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't think this movie toes that line
Speaker 1: very well. Yeah, I find like a little distracting at
Speaker 1: the beginning when it's like everybody's talking in movie metaphors.
Speaker 1: It's like the cool boyfriend is like our relationships at
Speaker 1: PG thirteen. I don't want to take it to like awe,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's also he says our relationship was
Speaker 1: an R and I want to take an n C seventeen.
Speaker 1: But it's like, what's not happening in an R rated
Speaker 1: movie that you that like I'm pretty sure you can
Speaker 1: have sex an R rate and movie, right, And like,
Speaker 1: I just want to do some freaky ship Like is
Speaker 1: that what you're saying? Yeah, some like Italian museum fucking movie.
Speaker 1: I can't. There is a movie with Italian movie where
Speaker 1: n C seventeen where the museum I can't. It's called Oh,
Speaker 1: I would like to know the name of that movie.
Speaker 1: And then what he's like, oh, we can't. We now
Speaker 1: it's like edited for CBS Tuesday at seven. I was like, whoa,
Speaker 1: you're seventeen. And then at the end of the Campbell
Speaker 1: is like, would you settle for a PG thirteen rating?
Speaker 1: And he's like, what's that? And she flashes them and
Speaker 1: it's like you can show breasts in a PG thirteen
Speaker 1: movie that they're all over the place on their rate. Really,
Speaker 1: you've never seen Titanic. That's that's like artful. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can get away over it if it's art oil painting, breasts,
Speaker 1: so many rules. So in the movie there's direct references
Speaker 1: to Halloween. For example, Drew Barrymore's character mentions that Halloween
Speaker 1: is her favorite scary movie. Um, whenever the parents show
Speaker 1: up to that house and they're finding that you know
Speaker 1: something is amiss. Her dad is like, go to the
Speaker 1: Mackenzie's house and call the police. That's the same family
Speaker 1: that Laurie Strode and Halloween tells the kids to go to.
Speaker 1: That's even Oh and then there's that scene where Skeet
Speaker 1: and And and Nev Campbell are making out that Blue
Speaker 1: Oyster Cult song from Halloween's playing too, and Billy's last
Speaker 1: name is Loomis and Loomis is the last name of
Speaker 1: the psychiatrist and Halloween that Tatum comments, this is just
Speaker 1: like a West Carpenter film, which is the run Wes
Speaker 1: Craven and Carpenter. What she meant was Wes Anderson, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then later in the movie they are watching Halloween
Speaker 1: and kind of picking apart the different trips. So I
Speaker 1: just kind of wanted to do a little compare and
Speaker 1: contrast of the two movies, especially because we just covered
Speaker 1: Halloween a little exercise. So like in the Halloween episode,
Speaker 1: we kind of broke down. Okay, here the women who
Speaker 1: were being attacked and brutalized versus like not nearly as
Speaker 1: many men. However, in Scream we see still a lot
Speaker 1: of women get attacked and killed, but so do way
Speaker 1: more men. I feel like, yeah, it's like more than
Speaker 1: parody in that. Yeah, I was. It's it's about split
Speaker 1: down the middle because we see Casey Becker get chased,
Speaker 1: stabbed and then gutted, and then Steve, her boyfriend, also
Speaker 1: is gutted. We see Sydney get attacked multiple times. We
Speaker 1: see Tatum get killed by the garage door, but we
Speaker 1: see Dewey he gets stabbed in the back toward the end,
Speaker 1: Um Kenny, the camera guy, gets his throat slashed. Gail Weathers.
Speaker 1: I don't does she even get attacked or is it
Speaker 1: just that she crashes the van? She crashes and then
Speaker 1: she I think she gets attacked towards the end when
Speaker 1: she that first one where she has the safety on
Speaker 1: the gun and he's like right and they hit her
Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, I don't know if she ever gets stabbed,
Speaker 1: but yeah she is. She gets you know, scuffed up
Speaker 1: a bit. Randy gets shot, and then Stu and Billy
Speaker 1: stab each other. But that's all part of the plan.
Speaker 1: That's But so yeah, it's about and we can't leave
Speaker 1: out principal Henry Binklair, right, So maybe even it's it's
Speaker 1: more men getting what a treat I know he's in
Speaker 1: and out. He was fun and now he's the principal.
Speaker 1: And then about ten years later he pops up in
Speaker 1: holes and you like what, Oh, yes, the Dad Stanley
Speaker 1: Yellnet the third or something play Shining aboves Dad. So
Speaker 1: good anyways. Um, But I would say, even though there
Speaker 1: is more gender parody of people getting attacked and scream,
Speaker 1: I would say, as far as on screen violence, the
Speaker 1: attacks on women are more extended, they are more more brutal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because well even what you were just describing, like, yes,
Speaker 1: David Arquette gets a knife to the back, but that's
Speaker 1: not as bad as being squeezed, you know, like I mean.
Speaker 1: And then the whole opening scene is Drew Barrymore's character
Speaker 1: for a good five minutes is being verbally harassed, chased, stabbed,
Speaker 1: dragged across the ground. Um. And then all we see
Speaker 1: of the boyfriend is that he's tied up briefly, and
Speaker 1: then it cuts to the aftermath of him being gutted.
Speaker 1: So it's way more brutal when it's when it comes
Speaker 1: to violence against women. And I bet if we're if
Speaker 1: we're clocking how long. Yeah, Like you're saying, like those
Speaker 1: scenes are way longer. Um, And it might be worth
Speaker 1: noting the in that opening scene where we see the
Speaker 1: boyfriend tied up and kind of like used as sort
Speaker 1: of leverage or like usually it's a woman tied up
Speaker 1: in an action movie or superhero movie. We got Steve
Speaker 1: so but it's the line that drew He's he was like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, that that first scene. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: so much to unpack in that first scene alone, where
Speaker 1: it's one of those movies where, you know, because it
Speaker 1: does come down to the last girl still essentially in
Speaker 1: Sydney's you know, the last girl and we're just triumphant
Speaker 1: whatever that trope, which which kind of like our guest
Speaker 1: April Wolf was saying on the Halloween episode, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of different ways to look at the last girl trope. Um,
Speaker 1: but that is upheld in this movie. Uh but in
Speaker 1: the first scene. There were moments in this movie where
Speaker 1: it was hard for me to figure out. I don't
Speaker 1: know like how the writing felt about some of That's
Speaker 1: female characters that weren't Sydney, because a lot of them
Speaker 1: come off as a little dumb, a little thrill. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do think there's some I don't know if if
Speaker 1: Williamson like extends this to all his female characters. But
Speaker 1: I think there is some fun or interesting like setting
Speaker 1: up expectations that you would come to expect from having
Speaker 1: watched a lot of horror movies that he kind of undercuts.
Speaker 1: Like Gail Weathers is a percent set up as like
Speaker 1: as a victim, like she's like fucking with our main character.
Speaker 1: She's just like she kind of played as this like
Speaker 1: snoopy like bitch who's just like getting in the way,
Speaker 1: and like you kind of like expect her to get it.
Speaker 1: And and I would say this is a movie where
Speaker 1: I might say this is actually has two final girls,
Speaker 1: because I think Gail kind of fits that at least
Speaker 1: with her character. I don't know if i'd say that's
Speaker 1: the same for like Tatum, but like for her, like
Speaker 1: they're building up these expectations so they can kind of
Speaker 1: like under custom for them. Yeah, the Gail character is
Speaker 1: I mean, Gil and Sydney are both extremely smart and
Speaker 1: and capable, and I mean the movie doesn't do like
Speaker 1: you're saying, that doesn't the movie doesn't do that much
Speaker 1: to undercut their abilities. Even when they're wrong. It's not
Speaker 1: being positioned that they're stupid. It's just there's a lot
Speaker 1: going on and there's a stabby plan that no one
Speaker 1: could have guessed. Yeah, but but there are like Casey
Speaker 1: and and Tatum are a little bit trickier in in
Speaker 1: that way, which is, you know, I'm not even saying
Speaker 1: every woman that appears on screen and every movie has
Speaker 1: to be really smart. That is unrealistic and at some
Speaker 1: point gets boring. But that that first scene is so
Speaker 1: long and the like phone over the phone coercion, which
Speaker 1: like was making me squirm a little bit of like
Speaker 1: like don't tell him your home alone? What are you?
Speaker 1: And then telling a story You're like, oh, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: making popcorn and I'm going to watch a movie. Is
Speaker 1: like what are you doing? And they're what I could
Speaker 1: relate with in that scene is confusing Freddie Jason and
Speaker 1: Michael Myers because I would That's I would have died
Speaker 1: there too. Imagine just like failing a busfeed being murdered.
Speaker 1: Movie trivia is like the one thing that I am
Speaker 1: good at in my entire life, So I would have
Speaker 1: been like boom boom boom. Yeah, I would. I would fail.
Speaker 1: Although we did great at kill we won anyway. Anyway,
Speaker 1: It's quick Bracken. Another thing when you if you're comparing
Speaker 1: Halloween and Scream, for example, and Halloween, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of women in the cast, but they weren't really
Speaker 1: driving the narrative. They were basically just kind of reacting
Speaker 1: to what the killer was doing, and their main goal
Speaker 1: was survival essentially, and only one of them gets to
Speaker 1: achieve that goal, which is Laurie Strode. And Scream, however,
Speaker 1: there's a few elements that are introduced that allow female
Speaker 1: characters to be more active. One, uh, the identity of
Speaker 1: the killer as a mystery, unlike Halloween were like we
Speaker 1: know right off the at that it's Michael Myers and
Speaker 1: there's no ambiguity there. So in Scream, the women are
Speaker 1: trying to figure out who the killer is, um mostly
Speaker 1: Gail because she's you know, she's trying to like crack
Speaker 1: the you know, get the scoop. But then also because
Speaker 1: Sydney keeps being attacked and called and harassed by the
Speaker 1: killer and she's like, what who is this? I? You know,
Speaker 1: I want to know? And that Gail has alternative theories
Speaker 1: of like she's really thought about she's positioned like you
Speaker 1: you're Sajan is as like kind of a flighty local reporter.
Speaker 1: But she's done some investigation and is good at her
Speaker 1: job and seems to be getting closer than I mean,
Speaker 1: unfortunately our girls, Sydney keeps kind of fumbling it until yeah,
Speaker 1: until after she has sex with and then like the
Speaker 1: then like the clues click after she said, which is
Speaker 1: a killer, which is a really interesting subversion to the
Speaker 1: tropes of slasher movie. That's because as soon as she
Speaker 1: rather than you know, getting murdered, which is what usually
Speaker 1: happens as soon as a girl has sex in a
Speaker 1: horror movie. Yeah, like things fall into place for her.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting I mean, that's that was a subversion
Speaker 1: where when that happened, I was like huh, like yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes it just feels like they're like subversions without actually
Speaker 1: thinking like what is the implication of this? It's just
Speaker 1: like subverting it because I'm clever and I can do
Speaker 1: that math of like, well this usually happens, then this
Speaker 1: should happen. But it's like, what are we actually saying
Speaker 1: with this? It's opposed to like doing it because I'm
Speaker 1: a clever screenwriter, because I was like, is the implication
Speaker 1: of that? Like okay, so now to be able to
Speaker 1: solve crimes, you better be fucking like there. There's like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different ways, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it was an interesting subversion and
Speaker 1: it sounds like at this point that is not something
Speaker 1: that would normally happen in a horror movie. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like, what exactly was Williamson trying to say with
Speaker 1: that one? Right? And um, like on this theme, I
Speaker 1: even't started if I'm jumping end too soon, but I
Speaker 1: mean I think okay, So like seeing this in theaters
Speaker 1: in like nineties six, the moment that just like I've
Speaker 1: rarely been in another theater where like an audience when
Speaker 1: this crazy was when she's kind of like turned the
Speaker 1: tables on, when Sydney has turned the tables on the
Speaker 1: killer and she has that voice box and she's like
Speaker 1: terrorizing them Like that is so like that is so
Speaker 1: satisfying and so gratifying. Like the audience erupted when she
Speaker 1: started started calling them, and it's like at that point
Speaker 1: she's not just like the protactive protagonist. She is like
Speaker 1: I don't know, give it's so good because we so
Speaker 1: rarely see that because again, if we're comparing it to Halloween,
Speaker 1: Lori Strow just kind of gets away by sheer luck.
Speaker 1: At best, they're they're like defending themselves and like fighting
Speaker 1: for their lives. They're not like actively going after the
Speaker 1: people who have like terrorized in the whole movie, like
Speaker 1: at least until that point, I think we've seen that
Speaker 1: a little more. But Scream was kind of a little
Speaker 1: bit of a invader and partic Yes, and in Halloween,
Speaker 1: Dr Loomis has to come in and kind of save
Speaker 1: the day by shooting Michael Myers, whereas in this movie
Speaker 1: and Scream, Sydney kills one of the bad guys and
Speaker 1: then Gail kills the other one. So it's two women
Speaker 1: triumphing another. Like audience going nuts moment when she was
Speaker 1: like safety is off that time, asshole like erupts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a good audience. It's a good audience movie. Like
Speaker 1: you gotta see it with a crowd. I kind of
Speaker 1: want I'm sure there's public screen because I've around this
Speaker 1: time of the year. I kind of want to go group. Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't. Yeah, well, we gotta take another quick break.
Speaker 1: So let's take a break and figure out the plans
Speaker 1: for that, and then we'll come right back going back
Speaker 1: quickly to like the movie, calling attention to tropes, but
Speaker 1: maybe not necessarily fully understanding the implications of what they're saying,
Speaker 1: and kind of like not taking it far enough in
Speaker 1: terms of commentary. For example, towards the end whenever like
Speaker 1: Randy and the Gang are watching Halloween as Stew's house friends,
Speaker 1: he's kind of, you know, going through the rules and
Speaker 1: the tropes, and he's saying, he's like, Jamie Lee was
Speaker 1: always the virgin in horror movies. That's why she always
Speaker 1: outsmarted the killer and the big chasing at the end.
Speaker 1: There's certain rules that one must abide by to successfully
Speaker 1: survive a horror movie. For instance, Number one, you can
Speaker 1: never have sex. Sex equals death. Number two, you can't
Speaker 1: drink or do drugs. Number three never say I'll be
Speaker 1: right back. Yeah, He's like he's monologueing out in this
Speaker 1: Staies where there are a few parts of this movie
Speaker 1: where I'm like, okay, like we're laying it on a
Speaker 1: bit fit. Yeh. So he's calling attention to these tropes,
Speaker 1: but I would argue that there's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of active commentary being made. Well, I mean kind of
Speaker 1: like what we were just talking about it's like the
Speaker 1: people gets to this's like no, but women have that
Speaker 1: sex before, can escape alive and can have agency. I
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, I guess I was just thinking
Speaker 1: about myself in high school and like, well, where does
Speaker 1: that leave all the virgins? That used to be the
Speaker 1: only thing we had was that we could live, and
Speaker 1: now what we got to work with we got nothing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's I mean in terms of I think this movie
Speaker 1: came out at a time where starting to acknowledge media
Speaker 1: tropes in text is becoming trendy, but not necessarily doing
Speaker 1: much about it because this is like, you know, third
Speaker 1: wave feminism time. This is squarely in the like girl power.
Speaker 1: But as we see in this not very diverse movie
Speaker 1: in terms of race or once again, women's body types,
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, there is some level of catharsis and
Speaker 1: liberation for women, but only a very specific type of women, young,
Speaker 1: conventionally attractive, white, straight women exactly. Uh. And that I
Speaker 1: mean I think that that shows up in almost every
Speaker 1: movie of this era of you also can be a
Speaker 1: murderer if you look hot and played by the rules.
Speaker 1: Like there. It's progressive for its time, but it's certainly not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's a little I would maybe a little disappointing
Speaker 1: coming from Wes Craven because he had a string of
Speaker 1: movies before that that are a little more like progressive.
Speaker 1: The People Under the Stairs, I think, is one of
Speaker 1: like just like familiar. It's so it's I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say all this with a grain of salt because
Speaker 1: I haven't watched any of these movies in like years,
Speaker 1: but you know, People Under the Stairs is a horror
Speaker 1: movie about like gentrification that puts a young black kid
Speaker 1: at the at the center of the movie. Uh, and
Speaker 1: it's so good and so freaky and like, um and
Speaker 1: he actual I think he did a little more interesting
Speaker 1: stuff with just the idea of like these meta narratives
Speaker 1: a couple of years before with New Nightmare. Um, but
Speaker 1: this is kind of all that stuff. I feel like
Speaker 1: Scream was kind of like dealing with the same stuff
Speaker 1: as a New Nightmare. I don't want to say dumbed down,
Speaker 1: but like, you know, for a mass audi broader for
Speaker 1: a broader audience. Right. And then the screenwriter, Kevin Williamson,
Speaker 1: I mean kind of builds his his career on and
Speaker 1: I love a lot of a lot of his work.
Speaker 1: It's a lot to me where for what else is
Speaker 1: he does? So he is the force behind Dawson's Creek.
Speaker 1: Ever heard of the Vampire Diaries, Screams one, two, and four?
Speaker 1: I know what you did last summer The Faculty, which
Speaker 1: I think might be like The Faculty might be the
Speaker 1: one movie from this wave of late nineties horror that
Speaker 1: I actually like more than the screen. Really I love
Speaker 1: The Faculty. Well, I've never seen the factor. I don't
Speaker 1: think it is Elijah Wood, Josh Hart, Josh Hartnett, Yes,
Speaker 1: Um being new Worth is in it. Stewart is okay.
Speaker 1: But there is this through line even with like this
Speaker 1: specific relatively progressive writer's work, where in a lot of
Speaker 1: these and I'm pulling mainly from Dawson's Creek in early
Speaker 1: Vampire Diaries, where there's a lot of well written female
Speaker 1: characters that are making active choices, they're complicated, they have backstories.
Speaker 1: But again, like in Scream, it's almost across all the
Speaker 1: work we just mentioned a very specific type of what
Speaker 1: that this agency is available to um Scream to comments
Speaker 1: on the lack of diversity in horror movies to some extent,
Speaker 1: Um and that movie seems to have have made like
Speaker 1: a more conscious effort in terms of casting to cast
Speaker 1: more people of color in the movie, but all of
Speaker 1: those characters are in supporting roles, none of them are
Speaker 1: really in the main cast. And then that effort to
Speaker 1: be more inclusive in the sequels after that in Scream
Speaker 1: three and four just doesn't happen again. I mean, as
Speaker 1: I remember, Scream To just kind of opens with like
Speaker 1: like the opening murder is um who it's Jada P.
Speaker 1: Smith and her boyfriend. I forget who plays your boyfriends?
Speaker 1: So do I add a screaming of stab, which is
Speaker 1: the fake franchises in the Scream universe at the book.
Speaker 1: You get it, but like that, you know, so it's it's, it's.
Speaker 1: It does very much feel like they're it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we paid lip service to this idea, we're acknowledging it.
Speaker 1: Now let us get on and make the real movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, yeah. It feels like certainly more could
Speaker 1: have been done to acknowledge the lack of diversity in
Speaker 1: horror movies, certainly in screen the first screame because that
Speaker 1: does not happen at all, um, And then even when
Speaker 1: Scream Too, when it does make an attempt it. It
Speaker 1: kind of just isn't really enough, especially if you're doing
Speaker 1: meta commentary about the horror genre. I mean, there is
Speaker 1: like such a kind of, like going back as far
Speaker 1: as like not a Living Dead, a rich history of
Speaker 1: using horror as a template to talk about rays that
Speaker 1: it almost feels negligent, like willfully negligent on the side
Speaker 1: of the side of these of the people who are
Speaker 1: making this metal horror film not to like bring that
Speaker 1: into the conversation, like like even like going back as
Speaker 1: far as like the Twilight Zone, you know, like horror
Speaker 1: is a horse has always been used as kind of
Speaker 1: a platform to talk about like more progressive things because
Speaker 1: like people like Ron sid only know he said, you
Speaker 1: could like to al rate talking about this stuff when
Speaker 1: you bring spooky stuff into the mix. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's frustrating. Yeah, this, I mean this whole a lot
Speaker 1: a lot of like Clinton era movies for for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: they are willing to acknowledge the problem, but then also
Speaker 1: take little to no action to solve it, where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you for bringing it to our attention that you're
Speaker 1: aware there's a lack of diversity, and then straight up
Speaker 1: like show white people for three hours. It's just bizarre. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this falls squarely in that span of years where that's
Speaker 1: that's happening. It's like the first movie on this podcast
Speaker 1: that we really started to unpack the kind of like
Speaker 1: semi empty girl power message of the nineties is Spice World. Ironically,
Speaker 1: you did that with a man the Meadhouse, right. Yes,
Speaker 1: she's a biggest fan bet Um right, because that one
Speaker 1: had just so much kind of like empty quote unquote
Speaker 1: feminism where it's like you go, girl girl power, but
Speaker 1: it was like corporate feminism and they's still, you know,
Speaker 1: subscribe to a lot of the tropes that are regressive
Speaker 1: toward women. And it became a buzz. It became like, yes,
Speaker 1: a marketing strategy. It's like it's like a girl power
Speaker 1: by a pink pullar right camera. And I think to
Speaker 1: some extent there that is happening now too, And it's
Speaker 1: like I try to be really like mindful of that
Speaker 1: when i'm you know, just it's it's a weekend. I'm
Speaker 1: strolling through let's say the Glendale Galleria my closest mom.
Speaker 1: They're yeah, I love the Glenda Gallery, and it's just
Speaker 1: a quick quit A couple of steps, and then you're
Speaker 1: at the Americana and you're just at another great mall.
Speaker 1: Park once got two malls, the mall, I love shopping.
Speaker 1: I got shopping. I got these great French fries at
Speaker 1: the Americana the other day, anyways, but walking through, like
Speaker 1: you know, it's because it is such a precarious, strange
Speaker 1: moment in time where we care about women's issues again,
Speaker 1: but do we kind of thing. I think that's reflected
Speaker 1: in marketing so much. We're like even walking through my
Speaker 1: favorite mall the other day, my favorite in dorm hall
Speaker 1: across the street from my favorite dormlly perfect perfectly love.
Speaker 1: There's Apple stores at both ye. Anyways, there's something going
Speaker 1: to I want to go to the mall. But there
Speaker 1: is like a concentrated effort right now to play into
Speaker 1: that especially, and where I find it especially sinister is
Speaker 1: with empty messages about like body acceptance. There's this I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of a campaign that Lush is doing right now
Speaker 1: to sell soap, and it's like, hey, anybody type can
Speaker 1: use our soap. You're like, yeah, no, ship, it's soap.
Speaker 1: And then it's like me to the soap, and you're like, fuck,
Speaker 1: you're me too, Like there. But then but then it's
Speaker 1: like you go across the then you just like go
Speaker 1: across them all to like Forever twenty one where they're
Speaker 1: not selling Like those are the stores that like won't
Speaker 1: sell clothes into like the extra large sizes because they
Speaker 1: don't want like big women. Yeah. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's something ideal with a lot um,
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of times where this girl power
Speaker 1: messaging that's happening now feels a little shallow because you
Speaker 1: don't see it extended to like, you know, extends everywhere.
Speaker 1: It's pretty exclusionary still, right, and just like capitalizing on
Speaker 1: a moment while doing nothing to actually support it. I
Speaker 1: guess I'm just like, yeah, but everyone should check o
Speaker 1: the Blundell Gallery a great food court, yeah, to like
Speaker 1: and then there's a little side food card if you
Speaker 1: go up there. Yeah, guys, take a weekend. It's just
Speaker 1: one day at the gallery out, one day at the Americana.
Speaker 1: You're it's you're just have a full weekend. Our friend,
Speaker 1: our friend calls it was Jared called. Jared calls it
Speaker 1: like the Paris of California. It's just the Americana. Is
Speaker 1: hey can afford to go to Paris. Check out the Americana.
Speaker 1: There's a water fountain in movie and it's already synked
Speaker 1: up two songs from the Polar Express. Christmas starts early
Speaker 1: at the Americana. Oh, they go way out of their way.
Speaker 1: I saw when I was at the Americana. Sorry, one
Speaker 1: more thing about the Americana. I was I was getting
Speaker 1: my computer fixed on a Monday, so I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a quiet time in the Americana. There was an
Speaker 1: old couple watching the water fountain display and like crying.
Speaker 1: They thought it was like eleven in the morning. I
Speaker 1: was like, guys, what are we doing here there? But
Speaker 1: they were so moved were they by the Americana water displays.
Speaker 1: They were both crying and hold hants. That's beautiful. I know,
Speaker 1: like God, well, not to you know, derail this Glendelle
Speaker 1: Galeria conversation, but kind of we're tying it back to
Speaker 1: what we had been talking about in terms of like
Speaker 1: the exclusionary you know, soap is for everybody type and
Speaker 1: it's like, there is a moment where Courtney Cox fat
Speaker 1: shames her camera guy. Other than that, I would say
Speaker 1: there's not as much actively problematic stuff that happens in
Speaker 1: this movie. Um O, mission, it's a mission. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then compare this to the Scream parody of scary movie that,
Speaker 1: like I said, relies entirely on problematic jokes. So also
Speaker 1: this movie was supposed to be called scary movie crazy. Also,
Speaker 1: we would be remiss not to say, you know, it
Speaker 1: is a Weinstein joint. Yes, it certainly is, and should
Speaker 1: we I don't know how much it's worth talking about
Speaker 1: to bring up Rose McGowan, who plays Tatum, that you know,
Speaker 1: she's been very outspoken about the me Too movement, but
Speaker 1: she also, you know, says some problematic things that are
Speaker 1: fairly turfy at times. I think it's important to remember
Speaker 1: there is no perfect advocate for a movement, and if
Speaker 1: you're putting all your chips behind one specific advocate, probably
Speaker 1: not smart thing to do for your chips. Find the movement,
Speaker 1: not a specific person, but it is unfortunately I mean
Speaker 1: there and and if I'm recalling correctly, I did a
Speaker 1: little bit of a little little light goog on the subject,
Speaker 1: and it appears that the issues with Weinstein and McGowan
Speaker 1: happened after Scream in nineties seven. Interesting, just just the
Speaker 1: thing I might be wrong but I don't think. I
Speaker 1: think that just was those wave of like Dimension and
Speaker 1: Mirror Max films that they weren't actively involved with. It's
Speaker 1: just like their names were on everything. Although I do
Speaker 1: know it was them who decided to change the name
Speaker 1: from Scary Movie to screen. The only active participation I
Speaker 1: know they have in the movie got it. I mean,
Speaker 1: they still got money for it, so I'm not happy.
Speaker 1: But also a weird, like weird Hollywood reporter story came
Speaker 1: out as the me too movement was like starting this
Speaker 1: time last year, and Skeet Ulridge for some reason took
Speaker 1: it upon himself to be like, yeah, I also knew
Speaker 1: Harvey one Steam was bad, And like, Skeet, can you
Speaker 1: sit down for like a second. Don't they need you
Speaker 1: on set over at Riverdale? Don't you need to play
Speaker 1: some Fedora asshole? I don't you need to be brooding
Speaker 1: in a jail cell somewhere, a fake jail cell. Not
Speaker 1: I'm not advocating sending skates to real jail. Not yet.
Speaker 1: Show us the receipts and we'll send Skeek to jail.
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any final thoughts about Scream? I just
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Yeah, there's blind spots, mostly biomission. But
Speaker 1: I really liked it. Yeah, I love this movie, and
Speaker 1: I came out it was a lot of fun to
Speaker 1: revisit it. The one moment I've always loved in the
Speaker 1: movie is when everyone at the party finds out the
Speaker 1: Principles and murdered and they're like fuck yeah, and then
Speaker 1: they like take off to I'm like, what is wrong
Speaker 1: with these kids? These kids reaction to finding out people
Speaker 1: are like they're so stoked. It's so they're a heartless.
Speaker 1: I really want to I really want to see the
Speaker 1: moment where they get to the like the football field,
Speaker 1: to see like Principal Henry Winkler like strung up and
Speaker 1: they just like the gravity of what they're actually doing
Speaker 1: hits them and they're like right, and oh my god,
Speaker 1: a person is dead. I thought this is just fun,
Speaker 1: but a person Principle is dead. I mean he didn't
Speaker 1: get along with him, but but he doesn't deserve it. Yeah, Jamie,
Speaker 1: you mentioned this a bit on the Halloween episode where
Speaker 1: in that movie and in this movie as well, it's
Speaker 1: clear that the people who are displaying toxic masculinity and
Speaker 1: you know, other negative quality these it's clear that they
Speaker 1: are the bad guys because often we find in movies
Speaker 1: where you know, the hero is also ripe with toxic masculinity,
Speaker 1: but we're still raped. But um, because in different moments
Speaker 1: of this movie, we see like Billy emotionally manipulating his
Speaker 1: girlfriend by being like, you're still upset about your dead mom?
Speaker 1: You fucking loser. Why don't you just have sex with
Speaker 1: me already? God? And it's like, oh, okay, so you're
Speaker 1: you know, abusive and in gaslighting and uh, and then
Speaker 1: he ends up being the bad guys. So also those
Speaker 1: when one last thing I wanted to say about Sydney
Speaker 1: is that like kickstarting stuff with the brutal murder of
Speaker 1: a woman, and I think they say rape as well.
Speaker 1: There's issues of Sydney's mom that's in the report. The
Speaker 1: report yes that I mean both was like a reference
Speaker 1: to Halloween and just like, boy, we're killing a woman
Speaker 1: to start the story. But you do see Sydney dealing
Speaker 1: with that trauma in a way that at least seems
Speaker 1: for this universe to be relatively honest, and it's not
Speaker 1: the sort of story where it's like, oh, yeah, we're
Speaker 1: just throwing this in there to get the story started
Speaker 1: and it has no actual narrative impact on our main character.
Speaker 1: So it's happy to see that. And I also, and
Speaker 1: I mean regards to actually both of what you're saying,
Speaker 1: especially like the display of understanding and display of toxic salinity.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that might have to do
Speaker 1: with the fact that, like Williamson is a like queer writer,
Speaker 1: so he's not he's not writing from the inside. He's
Speaker 1: kind of writing from the outside a little bit when
Speaker 1: he's dealing with character, and I think maybe he can
Speaker 1: see them with a little less like hero worship than like, say,
Speaker 1: a you know, someone who might see themselves in Billy
Speaker 1: Loomis would right. And I would say overall, in terms
Speaker 1: of like the character development of the you know, main
Speaker 1: female characters we get to know, which is mostly Sydney
Speaker 1: and Gail Weather, we don't know a whole ton about
Speaker 1: them outside of how they relate to this specific story.
Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, we're like, oh, and Sydney
Speaker 1: loves chemistry and you know, stuff like that. But you know,
Speaker 1: there's only so much you can accomplish. But it didn't
Speaker 1: super bother me in this movie, because you know, this
Speaker 1: movie has an agenda and Also, it's not like we
Speaker 1: know that much more about the male characters either. There's
Speaker 1: not like a massive imbalance, Like it's just the story
Speaker 1: doesn't tell you much about the teenagers outside of their
Speaker 1: sex lives. And they all love horror movies the insanely
Speaker 1: specific knowledge. Yeah, well I like this movie. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: damn it. I want you to see the the other three.
Speaker 1: Let's watch them together. Okay, Okay, Hey does this movie
Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel test quite a few times between quite
Speaker 1: a few different combinations of characters that passes. Between Sid
Speaker 1: and Tatum early on, men get mentioned in this conversation,
Speaker 1: but there are two line exchanges that pass. Whenever said's like, hey,
Speaker 1: what's going on at our school? And she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: some teens were killed that we know. There is scene
Speaker 1: between Sydney and Gayl where the whole thing passes as
Speaker 1: far as I could tell. Oh, and I think Tatum
Speaker 1: is there too, where like she's like, get away from her,
Speaker 1: don't ask questions. Is none of your damn business. Blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Yeah. So there's there's quite a few scenes
Speaker 1: where the movie passes the Epectel tests. It's get impressively.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and we've talked about this before. Of the
Speaker 1: you know, a few horror movies, we've covered that so far,
Speaker 1: it seems like all of them passed. And it's because
Speaker 1: horror movies have to be populated by many women so
Speaker 1: that they can get murdered. But before they get murdered,
Speaker 1: they talked to each other. But Catch twenty two and
Speaker 1: they and they usually have to talk because of what's
Speaker 1: happened in the movie. They probably have to talk about
Speaker 1: something aside an an, Hey, did you hear about our
Speaker 1: our friend Sally getting murdered? She got I guess it's
Speaker 1: all the Saw movies past the Fidel task, which is
Speaker 1: just another period of the flawed metrics. What are we
Speaker 1: going to do about these traps? So many traps. There
Speaker 1: a lot of knives in this room. Christie, Christie, agree,
Speaker 1: don't put your hand in that needle pile. Christopher Coops
Speaker 1: might be passes. So let's write the movie on our
Speaker 1: nipple scale, where we rate it zero to five nipples
Speaker 1: based on its portrayal and representation of women. I'm going
Speaker 1: to give this one. I would say a three. I
Speaker 1: suppose I can go right yeah, because we see the
Speaker 1: female characters being a bit more active and more motivated
Speaker 1: than they are in typical slasher movies. We don't see
Speaker 1: like the gratuitous nudity that we often see. We don't.
Speaker 1: While it does still align with some of the tropes,
Speaker 1: it also kind of redefines some of the troops and
Speaker 1: it subverts some of them. So, you know, the whole
Speaker 1: final girl has to be innocent virgin type is kind
Speaker 1: of thrown out the window with this um they save
Speaker 1: themselves at the end. There is parody between the number
Speaker 1: of men versus women who get attacked. So I think
Speaker 1: it handles things better than you know, the seventies and
Speaker 1: eighties slasher flicks that audiences had gotten accustomed to up
Speaker 1: until you know, the release of Scream. But as we
Speaker 1: also pointed out, there is no diversity in terms of race,
Speaker 1: in terms of identity and sexuality and body type and
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. So it's still the story of young,
Speaker 1: hot white women, which a character like Gail Weathers continues
Speaker 1: to help sensationalize. And yeah, yeah, so it doesn't handle
Speaker 1: everything the best that it could, but it's a step
Speaker 1: certainly in a better direction for slasher movies. So yeah,
Speaker 1: three nipples and I'm gonna give one to Sydney. I'm
Speaker 1: going to give one to Gail, and I'm gonna throw
Speaker 1: one to our pal Lillard. Lillard, Oh boy, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go for three as well. Um, we already discussed kind
Speaker 1: of it's mostly progress on a surface level and that
Speaker 1: it's hetero white movie. Inside of the world. Women have
Speaker 1: more agency than most popular horror movies up toil this point,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure seeing this movie in theaters was cathartic
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. And it's just interesting to see, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, in a horror movie two characters Gail and Sydney,
Speaker 1: who are who don't just survive, They survive and they
Speaker 1: thrive and they come together like I don't know if
Speaker 1: like there's a lot going on, like theme wise, there's
Speaker 1: a lot in Scream. But one of the things, one
Speaker 1: of the light themes I took out of it is is, oh,
Speaker 1: it is about how kind of media and society like
Speaker 1: work to like keep women at odds with each other,
Speaker 1: because like the whole movie, they're at odds with each other.
Speaker 1: At the end, when she's like, how about this story
Speaker 1: reporter like killed two assahole teenagers murderers, and and he's
Speaker 1: like I like that story. Yeah, it's like we always say,
Speaker 1: people trying to keep women fighting, so because if we
Speaker 1: talk to each other then the scam is exposed. Uh
Speaker 1: So so yeah, I mean there's most of this movie
Speaker 1: is like terrific, and it's definitely paved the way for
Speaker 1: even more progressive work to be made. Uh and a
Speaker 1: bunch of weird not great work. So such a scary
Speaker 1: movie and that whole franchise the cost of success. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: it's given it three nippies. Of course again, I tossed
Speaker 1: one to Lillard, give him a full set where I'm
Speaker 1: gonna kick one over to Casey because Drew Barrymore just
Speaker 1: she belts it. Uh, And I'm gonna give my last
Speaker 1: one again. I might just for like nostalgia and being
Speaker 1: matter factor, Like I might bump it up to four
Speaker 1: because I totally agree with everything you guys are saying. Um,
Speaker 1: but I don't know they're just being there for that
Speaker 1: movie at the time was released like in a giant
Speaker 1: crowded audience, was like it did feel like something special,
Speaker 1: and it did feel like something we were seeing something
Speaker 1: like you know, progressive and cool and new and like
Speaker 1: I'll never like forget that experience of scene of like
Speaker 1: you know, feeling that catharsis the first time I saw
Speaker 1: it in a theater, and you know, this is just me.
Speaker 1: I feel like looking back on it with like remembering
Speaker 1: like kind of what horror was before that and kind
Speaker 1: of what Scream took it to. But I can't help it,
Speaker 1: Like you know, it is a very special movie to
Speaker 1: me for that, and I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give it one extra nipple for for for that reason,
Speaker 1: would you Oh, Um, I'm gonna give obviously Gail, Obviously, Sydney. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna like also throw on to Tatum just for
Speaker 1: that kick ass move where she like slams the freezer
Speaker 1: door in Ghost Ghost Faces Face. Um, my last nipple
Speaker 1: goes to Can I give it to Sydney Gail team
Speaker 1: up at the end because I fucking love that mutual nip. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you's get one extra half nip. Well better like next
Speaker 1: time Jamie Kennedy knips for you. This time He's only
Speaker 1: in so many movies in the screen too, So we
Speaker 1: got to watch it. Think or maybe when you get
Speaker 1: the Son of Mask. Oh, there's that's like twenty years
Speaker 1: from now, we're really scraping for movies, like, all right,
Speaker 1: here's the Here's the Son of a Mask. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: wait twenty years, Jamie, and then and hopefully, you know,
Speaker 1: you'll be alive and thriving and doing even more experiments. Well,
Speaker 1: by that point, the two of us will be married
Speaker 1: and it will be the Jamie Ken Jamie Kennedy Experiment
Speaker 1: Experiment awesome show. Anyways, Well, Joan, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for beank, you for having me. This is a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. Yeah, I love going back to nineties living
Speaker 1: my high school years. Awesome. Where can people find you online?
Speaker 1: What would you like to plug? You can find me
Speaker 1: on Twitter or Instagram as Joan Hailey Ford. Other than that,
Speaker 1: I'm at UCB pretty frequently. And watch out for Yabadaba
Speaker 1: dinosaurs and Thundercat's roar, and don't forget to be on
Speaker 1: the lookout. Also be alert and aware for Paula Blark
Speaker 1: Calin and I are gonna hit. We're gonna go to
Speaker 1: a Starbucks right now and start get taking story notes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could set it at the Americana. The twist is
Speaker 1: it's an outdoormal. Yeah. World collidings. Oh, there's so much,
Speaker 1: There's so many more. Threats. It's outside, it could rain.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, what's Paula going to do at
Speaker 1: Oh god, We're gonna need a high budget. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have to make that snow real. It could be a
Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's a geo storm cross howe? Where is
Speaker 1: that some some terroristism is causing a snowstorm in southern California? Oh?
Speaker 1: I love this amazing well on one complete. Hey for
Speaker 1: for great ideas like that, check us out on Twitter
Speaker 1: and Instagram and Facebook at becktel Cast. You can write
Speaker 1: and review us on iTunes. You can go to our
Speaker 1: merch store, te public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast.
Speaker 1: We've got all kinds of goodies and you've you've got
Speaker 1: a few more days to get our Halloween Beetle Juice
Speaker 1: allan sale this month. Are Feminist Icon Beetle Juice, Fun,
Speaker 1: Ironic t Revenence the last year's episode, and you know,
Speaker 1: are you on team wet Scalves? Are you on Team
Speaker 1: dry Scouts? Likely failing T shirt design will only be
Speaker 1: on sale for a few more days. Also, quick plug
Speaker 1: about our East Coast tour that we're going to be
Speaker 1: doing in early November, starting on November three, we're going
Speaker 1: to be in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. November earth, we're going to
Speaker 1: be in Washington, d C. And November five, we're gonna
Speaker 1: be in New York City. Is a part of the
Speaker 1: New York Comedy Festival. For more details about the movies werecovering,
Speaker 1: our guests, the venues will be at, and how to
Speaker 1: get tickets, go to becktel Cast dot com and go
Speaker 1: to our live appearances tab and all the information will
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Speaker 1: in or near any of those cities, we hope to
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Speaker 1: patreon dot com, slash becktel Cast and otherwise, Um, you scream,
Speaker 1: I scream, We all scream for Screaream franchise. Yeah, okay bye,
Speaker 1: let me bye by