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Speaker 1: It's hard to think you need anything else. That's the

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Speaker 1: only answer I can actually come up with us. That's

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Speaker 1: all I ever heard was. Hey everyone, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: this very special episode of On Purpose. Thanks to our

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Speaker 1: partners a Better Help. For this episode today, I'm joined

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Speaker 1: with Haysu Joe, licensed therapist and head of clinical Operations

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Speaker 1: at Better Help. Better Help would like me to mention

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Speaker 1: the following trigger warnings racism, bullying, and relationships with food.

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one

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Speaker 1: health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every

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Speaker 1: one of you that come back every week to listen,

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Speaker 1: learn and grow. Now You're in the right place because

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Speaker 1: I know you want to be happy. I know you

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Speaker 1: want to be healthy, and I know you want to heal.

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Speaker 1: And we have an incredible partner here at On Purpose

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Speaker 1: and Better Help. And if you are listening closely, you

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Speaker 1: heard some of the incredible live therapy sessions we did

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Speaker 1: on the podcast with two incredible guests who are so

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Speaker 1: happy and open to be really vulnerable and share their

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Speaker 1: truth and share their story. And I want to repeat

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Speaker 1: how grateful and honored I am to have had that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: But today I'm going to put myself in the hot seats.

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Speaker 1: So I thought, what better way to talk about therapy,

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Speaker 1: What better way to discuss the power of therapy than

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Speaker 1: to put myself in that position. I recommend therapy to

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Speaker 1: so much family, so many friends, so many people in

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Speaker 1: my life, so many clients that I work with as well,

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to show you that, no matter how

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Speaker 1: much you think you know, how much you have gained,

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Speaker 1: how much learning and self work you have done, sitting

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Speaker 1: down with someone who's non judgment or sitting down with

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Speaker 1: someone who has expertise in this area, and sitting down

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Speaker 1: with someone where in one sense they don't have a

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Speaker 1: response to the outcome, they have a response to how

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Speaker 1: you feel, they have a response to what you're going through,

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Speaker 1: can really be powerful and beneficial for anyone's life. And

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Speaker 1: today I'm joined a by the wonderful Hay Sue again,

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Speaker 1: who is here last time with our incredible guests, and

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Speaker 1: so hey Sue, thank you for being here, thank you

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Speaker 1: for doing this again with me, thank you for the opportunity,

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Speaker 1: and big thanks to better help but making this happen.

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Speaker 1: So I guess I now have to officially hand over

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Speaker 1: to you again. I have to stop being j Y

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Speaker 1: the host an interview on this podcast, which I never do.

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Speaker 1: This is a monumental, historic moment for me on the

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Speaker 1: show where I'm going, Okay, I'm no longer a host,

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Speaker 1: but I am a client and patient. That's exciting. I'm honored.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to tell myself now the pressure is not on.

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Speaker 1: I'm really grateful that you're opening up in this way

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Speaker 1: and inviting people into who you are, because I think

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Speaker 1: that's going to be such a powerful way for people

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Speaker 1: to get to witness what they might experience in a

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Speaker 1: session themselves. Thank you. Yes, that's my hope. My hope

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Speaker 1: is truthfold. My external reason for doing this is that

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Speaker 1: people will get a sense of what therapy looks like,

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Speaker 1: because I think we keep hearing about, oh, I went

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Speaker 1: to therapy. My therapist said this, and people don't know

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Speaker 1: what that means. And the internal reason for doing this

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Speaker 1: is because I think I just genuinely love getting the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to self reflect and try and find if there's

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Speaker 1: anything else that I've missed or something that I haven't

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Speaker 1: worked on. And so I think there's two reasons for

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Speaker 1: doing this. It's not just I don't want anyone to

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Speaker 1: think this is performative or the idea of just showing

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Speaker 1: you what it looks like. I'm genuinely doing it as

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Speaker 1: I'm in this seat, and I'm going to open up

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Speaker 1: and be honest based on the questions that you have,

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Speaker 1: as I would in a therapy session. All right, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad we're here talking today about whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that you'd like to get into. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: times I do start exploring with new clients things from childhood,

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Speaker 1: things from early life experiences, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: might wonder why therapists do that. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: important for therapists to remember to explain these things. And

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Speaker 1: that's called rationale, providing rationale as to why we're about

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Speaker 1: to go into something, even though some people might want

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Speaker 1: to deny it, or some people may not realize. So

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Speaker 1: much of our childhood ends up manifesting in the way

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Speaker 1: that we communicate with other people in our adulthood, the

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Speaker 1: ways that we connect with folks. And so it's really

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Speaker 1: important for me as a therapist to start painting this

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Speaker 1: picture of who you were then, because that little kid

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Speaker 1: is still inside of you now, and that little kid

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Speaker 1: whose needs are not being met now is going to

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Speaker 1: start acting out in different ways, starting having different behaviors,

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Speaker 1: different feelings that sometimes don't make any sense, really hard

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Speaker 1: to understand. If you would like to, like whatever way

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Speaker 1: that feels comfortable, could you tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your childhood to start off. Yeah, it's so interesting.

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Speaker 1: Even when I think about my childhood, I'm like, what

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Speaker 1: do I remember and what do I not remember? What

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Speaker 1: I guess have I chosen to block out or think

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Speaker 1: about less versus what has kind of naturally been let

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Speaker 1: go of? And then what's very clear? And so I

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Speaker 1: think when I think about my childhood, I think about

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Speaker 1: childhood starting when I went to nursery. I went to school,

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Speaker 1: so like four years old I think I was when

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Speaker 1: I started going to school. I think my most common

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Speaker 1: memories are of being bullied at that age, and so

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Speaker 1: bullying would include everything from being called names. I was

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Speaker 1: one of the few Indian people in the school I

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Speaker 1: went to, so people had hurtful names. I was quite

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Speaker 1: overweight as a child, and so I would always be

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Speaker 1: teased about my weight and you know, jokes of search

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Speaker 1: and then I was also trained by my parents to

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Speaker 1: do well at school, so at home it was all

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Speaker 1: about grades and exams and about doing well. But then

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Speaker 1: I went to a school where that wasn't the number

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Speaker 1: one priority in elementary school we call it primary school

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Speaker 1: in England. I think I was bullied for that too.

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Speaker 1: I was bullied for the fact that I tried it.

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Speaker 1: Was bullied for the fact that I would work hard,

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Speaker 1: or my homework would be done on time, and things

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Speaker 1: like that. And so there were so many different things

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Speaker 1: I was getting bullied for. And the bullying started with

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Speaker 1: words and names and things like that, but then it

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Speaker 1: kind of evolved as we grew older into I remember

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Speaker 1: being like, we have I don't know what you call

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Speaker 1: them here, and maybe it's the same thing, but we

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Speaker 1: had like big bushes of stinging nettles. Basically, it's a

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Speaker 1: plant where if you touch it, you'd you'd feel like

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Speaker 1: a sense of a negative reaction to it. I remember

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Speaker 1: being pushed into this bush like repeatedly and for no

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Speaker 1: other reason apart from the color of my skin and

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Speaker 1: from my weight or size. And then I remember being

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Speaker 1: beaten up multiple times as well. So I'd be at school,

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Speaker 1: i'd be in the playground, I'd get beaten up. At lunchtime,

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Speaker 1: I'd get you know, and that was that was a

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Speaker 1: recurring thing, Like I don't remember that happening just once.

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Speaker 1: I remember it happening again and again and again. And

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Speaker 1: I've probably never talked about it this openly or this

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Speaker 1: much before. And my mom would have to come into

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Speaker 1: school and kind of like talk to the teachers and

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Speaker 1: explain and try, and you know, she'd get upset with

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Speaker 1: the way the teachers had handled it because we always

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Speaker 1: felt like that kid would just be back in school

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Speaker 1: the next day, and my mom didn't feel happy with

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Speaker 1: the justice system, I guess in the school of how

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Speaker 1: this was being taken care of. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about being like seven, eight years old while this

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Speaker 1: is going on nine, ten years old. All the way

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Speaker 1: through till about probably like ten years old, I think

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Speaker 1: this was going on. I'm sure there's more, and I'm

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Speaker 1: happy to unpack more, but I'm like, that's what I

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Speaker 1: think of when I think of being a child, if

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, And it was interesting when somebody's

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Speaker 1: asked I think to tell somebody else about their childhood. Initially,

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Speaker 1: the first things that come to mind are often very

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Speaker 1: defining things that create some part of your identity. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned something about like there's things I remember, there's probably

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Speaker 1: things like don't remember, things that maybe I've pushed a way,

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Speaker 1: and for this to be the first thing that comes

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Speaker 1: to your mind makes me very sad. It makes me

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Speaker 1: very sad for little Jay. You know, that's trauma. It's

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Speaker 1: to experience trauma repeatedly, over and over again. Little kids

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Speaker 1: school is their world. School is shaping their worldview and

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Speaker 1: to live day in and day out being afraid of

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Speaker 1: going into the place that's supposed to be one of

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Speaker 1: the safest places for school. I can see that turning

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Speaker 1: into becoming an adult that feels like the world is unsafe,

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Speaker 1: that people are untrustworthy. I cannot let other people in.

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Speaker 1: I have to be very, very discerning about who I

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Speaker 1: connect with, because it sounds like folks that maybe you

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Speaker 1: had attempted to connect with turned around and pushed you

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Speaker 1: into stinging metals. I think at that time I just

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Speaker 1: felt quite alienated in school. I wouldn't say it was

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Speaker 1: people I was. I didn't feel a sense of betrayal

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Speaker 1: at that age. It was more just kids that I

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Speaker 1: knew or didn't know. It was more neutral, i'd say,

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Speaker 1: But it kind have changed when somehow, like I was

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Speaker 1: like considered the dorkiest overweight kid in school, Like that's

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Speaker 1: how I was referred to. And then I became friends

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Speaker 1: somehow with the toughest kid in school who no one

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Speaker 1: would argue with. And I don't know why he became

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Speaker 1: my friend to old this day, I'd love to ask

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Speaker 1: him his names Ian and Ian and I became best friends,

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Speaker 1: and we bonded over football as soccer, and we bonded

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Speaker 1: over just I don't know what I think that was it.

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Speaker 1: I think it was as simple as like, what football

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Speaker 1: team do you support? And then we supported the same team,

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Speaker 1: and so then that became our like and I guess

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Speaker 1: when you're that age, there's not much more to your

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Speaker 1: personality and so, but me and him became best friends.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, no one would want

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Speaker 1: to fight with me because he was my best friend

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Speaker 1: and he was really tough. And when I said tough,

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Speaker 1: of being like he was sure and not like you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't consider him to be strong, but he was someone

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Speaker 1: who just was extremely powerful. You would not want to

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Speaker 1: get into a fight with him. And we became friend

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Speaker 1: and then from that day I felt far more protected

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Speaker 1: and kind of safer because he was around, and that

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Speaker 1: he'd get involved if anyone was to cross the line.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that you had that moment of meeting someone,

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Speaker 1: so that sounds like the next year's were not as brutal. Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you what do you remember about

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Speaker 1: coming home after these days that you were just ostracized

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Speaker 1: or picked on and even beat up. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: did you want to go back to school the next day?

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Speaker 1: Or like how did you feel about school in general? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting, you know. And when you

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Speaker 1: were saying you were sad earlier, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't genuinely have sad memories in the sense of I

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Speaker 1: think my mom. I felt so loved by my mom

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Speaker 1: and her values or my parents' values of me doing

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Speaker 1: well at school were so ingrained that I actually remember

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Speaker 1: I remember being scared of going to school, for sure,

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Speaker 1: and I remember not wanting to go to school every

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Speaker 1: day because of this for sure. That that is definitely there.

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Speaker 1: And I never missed a day. I would go back,

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Speaker 1: so it wasn't that I actually took days off. I

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Speaker 1: would go back the next day, even when I was scared.

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Speaker 1: I think my parents were very much like schools about

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Speaker 1: doing well. Will take care of this. This doesn't not

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Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter in the sense that it's not important.

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Speaker 1: It's that this isn't why you're there. You're not going

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Speaker 1: there for those people. You're going there for your future.

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Speaker 1: I think there was a lot of love from my parents.

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Speaker 1: My home with my mom especially felt extremely safe, Like

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Speaker 1: I feel like she created like this really beautiful, loving

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Speaker 1: environment where I felt protected and even when I felt embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: There were times I felt embarrassed when your mom comes

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Speaker 1: and saves the day at school, Like that's massively embarrassing

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Speaker 1: as a kid. But now when I look back, I

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Speaker 1: think I look back in that in a healthy way

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Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh no, my mom had my back.

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Speaker 1: She always turned up. She never made me feel unloved.

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Speaker 1: She never let me feel that me being overweight or

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Speaker 1: a color of my skin was a disadvantage. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's what was interesting, is that when I think

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Speaker 1: about my parents, they never made me feel that the

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Speaker 1: color of my skin was a disadvantage. They were just like,

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Speaker 1: this is just who you are, So it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: good thing or a bad thing. It's just this is

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Speaker 1: who you are. And I think that at least helped

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Speaker 1: me is what I can say that helped me because

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Speaker 1: I don't think that I ever saw myself as better

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Speaker 1: or worse than people. I just saw myself as I am,

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Speaker 1: and so I think there were a lot of good

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Speaker 1: values in there, maybe not even consciously from my parents,

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Speaker 1: but at least ones that I feel I've extrapolated by

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Speaker 1: reflection where I'm like, oh yeah, like you know, my

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Speaker 1: parents never said, oh yeah, they do that because we're Indian,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't tell me stories like that like my parents.

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Speaker 1: I don't think my parents ever told me what they

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Speaker 1: went through until I got older and I asked them,

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Speaker 1: Like my mom and dad were both bullied for being Indian,

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Speaker 1: and my mum moved to London when she was sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, she went through a lot when

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Speaker 1: she moved to London. And so I don't even think

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Speaker 1: they ever told me those stories. So they didn't for me,

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Speaker 1: at least, I feel they didn't reinforce what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Not that they thought what was going on was okay,

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Speaker 1: but they were trying to defend me the human, not

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Speaker 1: me because I was overweight because of what color of

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Speaker 1: my skin. So it wasn't like, oh, well, you need

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Speaker 1: to lose weight or you know, it wasn't those one

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Speaker 1: in the topics of conversation, if that makes sense. Resilience

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Speaker 1: was being built for you at home with love, with presence,

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Speaker 1: with support from your family. You even said that there's

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Speaker 1: things that you were probably learning out of this that

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Speaker 1: they weren't making very explicit. And something I was thinking

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Speaker 1: of is even like this thing of you're going back

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Speaker 1: to school because even though this difficult thing is happening,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason, and there's a bigger purpose, and there's

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Speaker 1: something about your future that's important, and that's why you're

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Speaker 1: going to keep going back. There's a big lesson in

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Speaker 1: that for all of us. It's even when something is

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Speaker 1: very difficult, something doesn't feel good, something is scary, when

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Speaker 1: there's this other meaning or this other reason to keep

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Speaker 1: doing it, you muster up something inside of you to

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Speaker 1: continue to keep going. That is resilience, and that's assistance.

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Speaker 1: That's something that everybody needs, I think, to achieve whatever

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Speaker 1: they want to. So it sounds like you were both

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Speaker 1: struggling with something in a social sense with a lot

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Speaker 1: of other kids, but also building something inside outwardly that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't have the opportunity to really

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Speaker 1: encounter that feels right now, and of course you can't.

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Speaker 1: I wish I could go back and put myself in

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Speaker 1: the mindset of that day and be like, how did

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Speaker 1: I feel that day? And I'm sure I felt scared,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure I felt embarrassed. I'm sure I didn't

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Speaker 1: feel like I do now where I'm like I was

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Speaker 1: developing resilience, you know, like, I'm sure I don't now

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Speaker 1: I feel like that, but I'm sure when I was

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Speaker 1: there that day, I just felt like, this is the

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Speaker 1: worst thing ever. I'm sure there were days like that.

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Speaker 1: They they just don't seem to be the thoughts that

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Speaker 1: have stayed with me. I think the thoughts that I

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Speaker 1: took away were just you know, kids were mean. It

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Speaker 1: was a tough time. Definitely, there were some really tough days.

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Speaker 1: I remember this was a bit later on. I think

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Speaker 1: we were in sixth grade, just before you go to

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Speaker 1: high school, and so I remember this is by the

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Speaker 1: time I felt that I wasn't getting beaten up anymore.

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Speaker 1: So at least the violence had stopped, right, Like the

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Speaker 1: physical abuse had stopped, you know, coming up with a

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Speaker 1: black eye and like having your clothes ripped and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, like that definitely can't have been fun. I

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Speaker 1: just I almost can't even access how I felt at

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Speaker 1: that time, if I'm completely honest, Like it feels like

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about someone else. So does it bring your

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Speaker 1: feelings for you? Now? Distant? This is why I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do this. It's like it's so I've always wanted

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Speaker 1: to know, Like am I not excavating enough? Or like

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Speaker 1: it's so distant that it almost feels like I'm watching

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Speaker 1: my own life Like I don't. I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 1: even remember that happening to me, but I know it happened,

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Speaker 1: like if that makes sense, Like I remember it happening,

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Speaker 1: I can talk about it. I can I remember even

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Speaker 1: I can visualize it, Like while I'm talking to you,

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Speaker 1: I can visualize exactly what my school uniform look like,

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Speaker 1: exactly what I look like that day, Like I can

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Speaker 1: remember that, but I don't have a strong sense of

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Speaker 1: emotion attached to it, and I don't know how that happens,

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Speaker 1: Like how does that exist? Where I can remember the event,

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Speaker 1: I can remember who beat me up, I can remember

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Speaker 1: what it looked like, I remember most of you know

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Speaker 1: how it ended up. I remember telling my mom about it,

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Speaker 1: but I can do it almost without any sense of pain,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know how that exists. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that someone is supposed to feel a certain way with

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and how are you supposed to feel?

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Speaker 1: That's a great question, and I think I often struggle

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Speaker 1: with that, where when I look at previous struggles in

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Speaker 1: my life, and I think I look at most of

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Speaker 1: them the way I just explained to you now, I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes I feel guilty that I don't feel bad

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Speaker 1: about bad stuff that happened to me. But I don't.

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Speaker 1: I just not that I'm not saying it's okay, or

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Speaker 1: that I candone it, or that I definitely don't reflect

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Speaker 1: this on to other people. And I think that's where

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Speaker 1: I've I don't look at it. I never think, oh,

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Speaker 1: I went through hard times and I'm fine, so everyone

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Speaker 1: should be fine. Obviously I wouldn't be doing the work

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Speaker 1: I'm doing today if I felt that way. I sometimes wonder,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why don't I feel bad? And me and

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Speaker 1: my friend would love to talk about this because he

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00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 1: has a similar take on it, and we're always asking

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00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,199
Speaker 1: ourself that questions like what's wrong with us? Like why

341
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 1: do we not feel worse about what we went through

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people might feel worse. So I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, I feel I feel guilty Sometimes that I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I should feel more pain because of what happened.

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Speaker 1: Or sometimes I question, I'm like, am I just am

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Speaker 1: I closing myself off from it? Am I defending myself

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Speaker 1: from a really bad trauma? Am I protecting myself from something?

348
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,920
Speaker 1: I don't know? Like I'll ask those questions sometimes and

349
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Speaker 1: the answers doesn't go anywhere. I'll like sit there and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm good, I'm fine. I mean, some

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Speaker 1: part of you seems to think that you are supposed

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Speaker 1: to feel something different than you feel now, And I

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Speaker 1: think the reality is like you feel what you feel,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't and sometimes you did feel something

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Speaker 1: and you don't remember. And I'm understanding You're like kind

356
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Speaker 1: of wondering, did I feel something and I just pushed

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Speaker 1: it away? If that's the reality. If that's the reality,

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Speaker 1: we may never know, right, Like I don't know if

359
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Speaker 1: the technology yet to be able to access something like

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Speaker 1: that in a mental time travel type of thing. But

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Speaker 1: I think even now, when we think about repression of

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Speaker 1: memories or like the avoidance of painful past. These things

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00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,000
Speaker 1: are coping mechanisms, and even if we're not consciously aware

364
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 1: of this stuff happening, it makes sense for a very

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00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,159
Speaker 1: powerful psyche to try to protect us from something. And

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Speaker 1: you know, if you and your best friend example for

367
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Speaker 1: as an example, are now reliving a painful memory and

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Speaker 1: those feelings on a constant basis, would you be able

369
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Speaker 1: to do anything, accomplish anything Like those that are sulking

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00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,639
Speaker 1: in the pain of yesterday are often the ones that

371
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Speaker 1: are unable to propel themselves towards something better for today

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Speaker 1: and tomorrow. It's very evident that you're doing very well

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Speaker 1: for today and tomorrow all the time, not just for you,

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Speaker 1: but for so many other people. If anything, it seems

375
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 1: like a protective factor, maybe that you're not really aware of,

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00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 1: to separate yourself from the feelings that you probably may

377
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 1: have experienced at that time. We as people are so

378
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 1: interesting in that way, because you know, we remember some

379
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 1: stuff and don't and some things we think we don't remember,

380
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 1: but then something triggers a memory, right like somebody mentions

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Speaker 1: something and I'm sure we've all had that experience, like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I haven't thought about this thing and

383
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 1: so long, but you just unlocked something. Yeah, So I

384
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 1: don't think we necessarily need to live our lives like

385
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 1: searching for all the things to unlock the path helpful, Yeah,

386
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: especially if our present moment is still something that we're

387
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,880
Speaker 1: thriving in, something that we're able to share good things

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00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,439
Speaker 1: with other people with. So it's helpful. That's very helpful,

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00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 1: that's very reassuring. I think a lot of people. I

390
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: often talk to people about the difference between thinking and overthinking,

391
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: and I think there is something to be said for

392
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: like that overanalysis, the overthinking of trying to find something,

393
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, I can't. I can see connections

394
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: in how being bullied led to me, definitely at an

395
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: early age, becoming more empathetic, Like I saw myself wanting

396
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: i've really got upset or would feel other people's pain

397
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 1: early on if someone was being bullied around me, so

398
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 1: I could deal with it. But it's if we were

399
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 1: sitting in a group and someone was bullying you, I

400
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: would be very protective of you, and I would sense

401
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: that very early because I could tell how this person

402
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 1: felt towards you, and then I would be like, oh,

403
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to go through that, and then I

404
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: would stand up for the person, or I would try

405
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 1: and get involved in some way because I think, I

406
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: just I know what it felt like to be called names.

407
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: I know what it felt like to be beaten up.

408
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 1: I know what it felt like to have the hurt

409
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 1: at that time, and I realized just how sad it was, because, Yeah,

410
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: the story I was about to tell you was, so

411
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: I remember in sixth grade or fifth or sixth grade,

412
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Speaker 1: I came in late to school. Maybe I had a

413
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: draft's appoinment, or maybe we're running late with my mom,

414
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Speaker 1: I can't remember. And I was late, and there was

415
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Speaker 1: this one girl in our class that everyone had a

416
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Speaker 1: crush on right sixth grade, crushed everyone. I still remember

417
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: her name, I still remember, so I remember actually looked

418
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: like it's just so clear, it's crazy. That's the kind

419
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 1: of stuff I can remember. So we all had a

420
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: crush on her in sixth grade, and all the guys

421
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 1: had a crush on her, and we would talk about

422
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 1: how we all had a crush on her, but I

423
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 1: would never talk about it too much because I knew

424
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: she was out of my league, right, Like it was

425
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 1: that kind of like feeling as a kid. Oh, anyone

426
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 1: who's listening, by the way, if you're not watching, I

427
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: was doing quotation marks around outside of my league, so

428
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: I would never talk about that, but all the guys knew.

429
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: And then this day came in late to school. Everyone

430
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 1: was like looking at me weird. The girls were laughing,

431
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 1: the guys were laughing. And then I was wondering what

432
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: was going on, and obviously the teachers speaking, so I

433
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: can't ask friends, I can't talk in class. And then

434
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: my friend writes me a note and he's on the

435
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: note it said, oh, we told her that you like her,

436
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: and so like, not only was she told that I

437
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: liked her, she was told that I was the only

438
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: guy who liked her in school. And so none of

439
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: the other guys owned up to this crush. It was

440
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: only that I was put out there. And I remember,

441
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: and this was this was painful for sure, and I

442
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: often looked at this moment for so much courage, and

443
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: I think I almost use these events as like I

444
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: went through that when I was that age. I can

445
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: do a lot of stuff today. I remember like I played,

446
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: I was playing football again, and football. I think football

447
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,719
Speaker 1: was my first love, so it kind of turns up

448
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 1: in so many of my stories. And I was playing goal.

449
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: I was never allowed to play on the field because

450
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 1: I wasn't mobile or agile enough compared to all the

451
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: other kids as they thought, so I'd be in goal.

452
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 1: And the girls stood behind the goal that day and

453
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: just called me names for like an hour of lunchtime.

454
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: And I remember them saying things like, Oh, you're so overware.

455
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: I can't believe you think that. Not she's in your league,

456
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: but that kind of thing, like I can't believe you

457
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: think you could have got her, and that kind of

458
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: and and that when I talked about that, that definitely

459
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: makes me feel sad. I'm like, yeah, that was that

460
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: was painful, Like that's a member word that I do

461
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: have emotion attached to her. I'm like, yeah, that felt

462
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: really really tough, because like it's your first crush. I

463
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: think she's the first girl I've ever had a crush

464
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: into my life at the time, and then it and

465
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: then to be feeling like I didn't want her to know.

466
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: I knew she wasn't in my league. I knew she

467
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: wasn't you were trying to prevent this happening. Yeah, I

468
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,719
Speaker 1: was like I know that she's far more prettier than

469
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: I am and cuter than I am and all that stuff.

470
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm already aware of that, and the last thing I

471
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: needed to be called out for that, So that that

472
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: definitely telling that story actually has more pain in it

473
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 1: than talking about getting being up with the racism. Actually,

474
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: so yeah, I was experiencing the secondhand embarrassment for you, like,

475
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: oh God, like that's what you didn't want to happening. This,

476
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 1: this experience is like out of your league thing. I think.

477
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: It's like you quoted one of these kids behind you,

478
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: like you think you had a chance. It's like, no,

479
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: I didn't. That's why I didn't want to say anything. Yeah,

480
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: I knew I didn't have a chance, right, I knew

481
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: I didn't have a chance. And I would say I

482
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: actually felt pretty confident about who I was before teenage,

483
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: before becoming a teenager. And I'd say, actually, when I

484
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: got into my teens, that's where I became less confident.

485
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: I think up until my teenage years, it was like

486
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: I was a good student, I worked hard, I was

487
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: a good son. You know, I cannot check all those

488
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: things off. And I was like, yeah, my identity is

489
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: very secure you're sure of those things things, So regardless

490
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: of all this other stuff, I was like, but that

491
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: is a matter. Like the goal of life at that

492
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: age was not to get this goal to like me like.

493
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: That wasn't the goal of life. The goal was to

494
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: get into a good high school. Like I guess the

495
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: training of the conditioning of my parents was You're only

496
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: here to get into a good high school, to do

497
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 1: well in school. And so I think I was so

498
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: busy with exams and homework and studying really really hard

499
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: that I didn't really think anything else was important at

500
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: the time. I had enough good friends. As time has

501
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: gone on, like a small group, but I had enough

502
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: friends that I think got me through it. Now when

503
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: I look back, and yeah, you had a support system.

504
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: You've had these factors in your life to kind of

505
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: outweigh any of the negative stuff you had been going through.

506
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: I keep thinking of this, like this overarching theme of

507
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: being mothered. This is like a term a lot of

508
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: people are talking about these days. So what does that

509
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: mean to you? What is it to be othered? What

510
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: does it mean to me now? Or what do you

511
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: mean to me then? Now? Now, when you said that,

512
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: the first thing I came to my mind. I was like, yeah,

513
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: of course, like that's my strength, that I'm othered like

514
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: ill I heard the first thing that got in my

515
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: when you said. I was like, yeah, that's why I

516
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: love being I love being othered like now, like I

517
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: love being different and I love being unique. I realized

518
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: very much in the past few years that I've sat

519
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: with this idea for a long time. I think that

520
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: route of that is I've always wanted to be understood

521
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: more than even liked or more than validated, which I

522
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: think and we can talk about that maybe another term

523
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: or whatever, but I think that I worked on when

524
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: I became a monk in terms of being liked and validated.

525
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: But I think I've always craved to be understood because

526
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: I've had I consider myself to be someone of I

527
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: always say to everyone, like the only credit I will

528
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: give myself is that I consider myself to pure intentions

529
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: like that that I will hold my hand on my heart.

530
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: I'm a good person. I want good things for good

531
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: for people. I think about good things. I don't have

532
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: any agendas. I'm not trying to manipulate, so it's not

533
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: it's not who I am because about my Mum raised me.

534
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: So I have pure intentions, and so because of that,

535
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: I really have found it for years very hard to

536
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: be misunderstood by people because I'm like, I wanted you

537
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: to win, like I only want good things, So if

538
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: someone thinks otherwise. I had an episode the other day

539
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: where someone who I don't know very well, but again

540
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: I made the false assumption that they should know me

541
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: because of people we both know and how much those

542
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: people respect me or have a connection with me. I

543
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: assume that they would understand that, and they were feeling

544
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: a bit of uneasiness about trusting me on something, and

545
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: that really upset me. I said to them that my

546
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: trust and my integrity is all I have, Like that's

547
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: what I like carry myself on, and so for you

548
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: to think otherwise upset me. So I guess when I

549
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: hear other now, I'm like I feel to me, it

550
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: means to be misunderstood and not even given a chance

551
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: to be understood. And now when I reflect on it,

552
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: I actually realize I don't think anyone will. I'm not sure.

553
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: I haven't yet come to an understanding of whether anyone

554
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: has the power to fully understand anyone. It's so hard

555
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: to understand ourselves. And I think often I hoped people

556
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: would understand me. But even if I walk into this conversation,

557
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're a therapist, you should understand me fully.

558
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of pressure on another human being.

559
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: And I think even if I told you every detail

560
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: of my story, point by point, I still don't think

561
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: someone could fully understand me, because it's so big and

562
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: so to me. Today, I see being othered or the

563
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: word other is like a strength because I go, yeah,

564
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: I am different, and yeah, othered is what led me

565
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: on this unique path, and othered is what led me

566
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: to take risks. Maybe if I felt a part of

567
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: the crew always, I wouldn't have become a monk, and

568
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: then I wouldn't have quit being a monk to work

569
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: in the corporate world. And then I wouldn't have quit

570
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: being in the corporate world to follow my passion and

571
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: pursue my purpose to share wisdom with others. Like I've

572
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: just constantly tating so many risks in my life, and

573
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: I've constantly felt othered every time I took the risk,

574
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: because how many twenty two year olds were becoming monks

575
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: and how many twenty nine year olds were quitting their

576
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: safe job to pursue their passion, and so becoming othered

577
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: has become my strength. Now, No, that's how now, Yeah,

578
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: that's how it feels now today. Yeah, you had asked me, am,

579
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: I asking you about how I feel about it now

580
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: or back then? And so tell me how did you

581
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: feel about it back? Completely? The opposite right differ? Yeah,

582
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: like back then, if I talk about being other, it's

583
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: let you feel left out. You feel like the losering school.

584
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: You feel like the loner I felt, you know, I

585
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: remember now this. I'm never barely think about this. But

586
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: my mum would often make me pack lunch, and all

587
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: my friends would eat school dinners. And if you ate

588
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: pack lunch, you'd sit separately to the kids who ate

589
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: school dinners. You weren't allowed to sit together. Well, great

590
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: school idea. Yeah, and not many people ate pack lunches

591
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: in my school. Most people ate school dinners, and so

592
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: I would sit alone during lunch, and then my food

593
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: would smell different because it was often Indian. People would

594
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: look at it in point fingers and like, what's that?

595
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: That's I used to hide my food and eat it,

596
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: and I actually think it's I've never drawn this thing,

597
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: but I think I still have it today. Is I

598
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 1: used to eat my food really quickly, and that's been

599
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: a habit I've had to untrained so hard because even

600
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: in my adult life, I've always eaten really quickly. And

601
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: when my wife sees me, and she's massively into diet

602
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: and I laid it and you know, nutrition, and so

603
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: she's eating slowly and being present fineful in food. When

604
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: I was a monk as well, it was it was

605
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: one of the tough things because mindful eating was such

606
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: a big practice. But I've noticed that I've always been

607
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: a fast eating I wonder whether I actually developed that

608
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: back then, where it's like I didn't want anyone to

609
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: see what I was eating. Yeah, and so almost have that.

610
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: My wife was someone has seen the eat. She was like,

611
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? Like you eat as if like

612
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: you know you're not going to get another meal, Like

613
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: you eat so fast. And that's my earliest memory of

614
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: eating fast because I didn't want people to see what

615
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: I was eating. And that's really quicker I eat it,

616
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: the less I'll get judged for it. And so that

617
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: othering was not I didn't look at that and go,

618
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: oh that's cool, great, especially at that age for whatever reason,

619
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: I think, like so much of us feel hardwired to

620
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: want to belong, to be part of the group, to

621
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: find acceptance with others. And it's it's almost sounding like

622
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: this whole kind of childhood experience may have impacted your

623
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: relationship with food. You mentioned being overweight, and I imagine

624
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: there's just like so much going on with that, especially

625
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: with kids, Like you're eating certain amounts of food at school.

626
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: It's a little bit controlled. It's outside of school that's

627
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: affecting all that. So there is a stark difference here

628
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: of your experience with other at that time and your

629
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: experience now do you recall like when that shift happened,

630
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: and yeah, what contributed to that? I think also for

631
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: a long time in my physical health, I felt that

632
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: if I was skinny, I was healthy. I think a

633
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: lot of people, Yeah, the idea, which was a terrible idea, right,

634
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: like that doesn't that's not true at all, And so yeah,

635
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: I would think as long as I'm skinny, I'm healthy.

636
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: And then when I went through some health issues, I

637
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: was like, oh, like that that wasn't the right metric

638
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: to be looking at. But for so long in my teens,

639
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: that was the metric that I held onto because that's

640
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: the only metric that I had for health. My friends

641
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: always wanted me to be healthy, but I don't think

642
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: we talked about health in a healthy way necessarily when

643
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: I married my wife. That was far more of the

644
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: transition from the food point of view, where I think

645
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: food became healing and healthier when I married her, which

646
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: is only six years ago. Up until that point, I

647
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: don't think I had the healthiest ideas about food and

648
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: how it can be healing. But when you were saying

649
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: when did that shift happen? I think what's really interesting

650
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: is that even though I sound very confident in being

651
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: a kid, when I became a teenager, it kind of

652
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: flipped the other way where it was like, now all

653
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: that mattered was validation. Now all that mattered was fitting in.

654
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: Now all that mattered. So that's what I was saying,

655
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: that I almost went from being confident in who I

656
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: was even through all this hardship, then to almost throw

657
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: it out the window when I became a teenager, to

658
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: be like, I wasn't confident in who I was. What

659
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: I remember of being a teenager was I wanted to

660
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: be liked. I wanted to be approved of. I wanted

661
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: to be validated. I didn't like being othered. I I

662
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: hope that people would see me as a part of

663
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: the group. And I think that's what ed me towards

664
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: getting involved in a lot of the wrong circles, because

665
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: that was more considered cool and interesting. And now you

666
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: weren't being left out. It was almost like you were

667
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: the one to keep up with because you were doing

668
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: the risky stuff. For the stuff you're not allowed to do,

669
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: that's still socially accepted. That's still socially acceptable. Yeah, it's

670
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: like the mystery was what made you more interesting. And

671
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: so even though I felt so uncomfortable with drugs or

672
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: smoking weed or getting into fights or any of that stuff,

673
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 1: I would hang around those circles because I felt that

674
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: validated me or made me more interesting at the time,

675
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. And so now I didn't want

676
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: to be left out for being the loser. I was

677
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: so scared of that that I was willing to do

678
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: things that were completely out of alignment with my values

679
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: in order to be liked, right, And that was very uncomfortable.

680
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: I think that that was really tough because you're then

681
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: constantly living in a state of fear of what if

682
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: they figure out this isn't me. So you're scared of

683
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: the group you're in, and then you're also scared because

684
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: you're not living a life that's authentic to you. So

685
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: you've almost got two fears of what if I get

686
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: found out by all these cool kids that I'm not

687
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: that cool? And I'm scared because I actually don't want

688
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: to have a fight today, but I have to because

689
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: that makes me more interesting somehow, which sounds ridiculous but

690
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: makes sense to a seventeen year old And exactly, yeah, yeah,

691
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: this feeling of being scared, this is like kind of

692
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: the first time you're recalling a feeling. Right. You even

693
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,479
Speaker 1: said that a lot of your childhood experiences you can't

694
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: remember feeling anything, and even when you recall them, you

695
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: don't feel much about it. But this thing you remember

696
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: feeling scared, and you say, now, with good reflection, these

697
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: are the things I think I was scared of. Do

698
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: you think sixteen, seventeen year old you understood what you

699
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: were scared of? And if so, like, what was it

700
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: the you were scared of? No, definitely not. I think

701
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: at that time I was just scared of being left out.

702
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: I was scared of being seen as a loser like

703
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: I was at primary school. I guess, like, you know,

704
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: I think that was it was like I didn't want

705
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: to I didn't want to be that kid anymore, because

706
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: what happens to kids like that, what happens to losers.

707
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: You get bullied more you get you know, and I

708
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: did in the earlier stages. So I lost weight around

709
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: fifteen years old, and so I'd say even in high school,

710
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: like eleven to fifteen, I was still bullied for the

711
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: same reasons. I remember, like in high school we started swimming.

712
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: I went to Old Boys School, which everyone has their

713
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: own views about that stuff. I personally loved the school

714
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: I went to for high school, Like in hindsight when

715
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: I was there, sure, but I'm very grateful I went there.

716
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: It's a fantastic school, and I definitely have such a

717
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: great relationship with this school. I remember a few memories

718
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: quite vividly of like not being able to We weren't

719
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: allowed to use the steps to get out of the

720
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: swimming pool at school, and I couldn't get out. I

721
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: was like push myself out of a pool, And I

722
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: remember like being bullied for when I was like eleven

723
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: or twelve years old again because of my size and weight.

724
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: And then I remembered, you know, you're in a changing

725
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 1: room now with a bunch of dudes, and you're playing rugby,

726
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: which was our school sport, and like you're taking a

727
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: top off and people are laughing at you for how

728
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: you look and all of that kind of stuff. And

729
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: so I think to me, i'd actually started high school

730
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: where I left off. And I think when I naturally

731
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: started to lose weight when the bullying stopped, I was like, all,

732
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: I need to hold on to this now. It's almost

733
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: like things are turning in our favor, if that makes sense.

734
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: So I started to feel like, oh, now I could

735
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: be one of the cool kids and that would save

736
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: me from the pain and the stress that I went

737
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: through as being a loser or being you know, loser

738
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: again quotation marks, because I didn't want to be that anymore.

739
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: I think I'd suffered for so long it's almost like

740
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: That's what I felt then was I was like, we've

741
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: been through this for enough time, Like it's now time

742
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: to not be there, and we're going to do whatever

743
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 1: it takes to not be for it that way, because

744
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: he used so much of whatever it was that got

745
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: you through the first time, it's like, no, thank you

746
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: don't need to do that again. Yeah, I don't want

747
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: to go through it again. And it was harder when

748
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 1: you're older, And it was harder with kids who had

749
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: more than a couple of mean words. And it was

750
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: harder when I wasn't getting beaten up at this time,

751
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: but it was. It was harder when I guess you

752
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,959
Speaker 1: were older and you could process it more. I guess

753
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: almost like being a kid. Maybe I wasn't processing it

754
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: as as long. Yeah, processing it differently. It sounds like

755
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: it's it's always been very valuable to you for people

756
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: to understand you. And now and you're like later in

757
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: your life, I'm I'm hearing that, like being understood is

758
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: more important than being liked. So in that I'm guessing

759
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: for you, you'd rather that somebody seeks to understand you

760
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: and then they can decide whether they like you or not.

761
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: That's now, that's today. I think, well, now I've realized people.

762
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: I don't think most people who have the time to

763
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: understand anyone, But I think at that time I wanted

764
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: to be liked. At that time, I wanted to be liked.

765
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to be popular. I wanted to be validated

766
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: at the time at school because I just dealt with

767
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: the opposite for so long, right, I think I was

768
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: exhausted my resilience almost if I had any resilience at

769
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: that age, my resilience was exhausted. I was done being resilient.

770
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: I was like, this is too hard now, Like this

771
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: can't be the next you know, seven years or whatever

772
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: it is. So I think that led me to a

773
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: lot of bad decisions because I was just craving people's

774
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: approval during my teens, and you become someone you don't

775
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: want to be when you're craving approval from people that

776
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: aren't aligned with your values, and that's all I did.

777
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: It was almost like I didn't want to be seen

778
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: as the good kid anymore. I didn't want to be

779
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: seen as the kid who did well at school. I

780
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: didn't want to be seen as the kid who performed perfectly.

781
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: Like I remember when I went to school at eleven,

782
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: my goal was to be headboy. Headboy was this role.

783
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what you have in the US, not that,

784
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 1: but I learned of head boy and her yeah exactly,

785
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: there we go Harry Potter is the British reference to America. Okay,

786
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I should I love Harry Potter, so

787
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: that makes sense. But yeah, that was the idea, like

788
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: my goal at age eleven. This is how much of

789
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: a quotation Mark dorc I was at the time, Like

790
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: the idea was. I wanted to be a headboy when

791
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: I went to school, and when I was sixteen years

792
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: old at school, the last thing I would have wanted

793
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: to be was headboy because I thought it was the

794
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: most uncool thing to be. And so it's like that's

795
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: how much I'd switched my values. And I lived out

796
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: the latter of that where we had multiple roles where

797
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: again I think Harry Potter has this, but we had

798
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: multiple roles in school where you had headboy. You had

799
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: prefects who were like these right, like you have all

800
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: this kind of like you know, and I didn't even

801
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: get pretty much ever, and in my year made it

802
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: to like some level. And I was one of three

803
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: kids out of one hundred and eighty that had no

804
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: standing in that you were avoiding it. I was avoiding it.

805
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: I was avoiding it so hard that it had completely

806
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: gone the other way. And now when I'm reflecting that

807
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,959
Speaker 1: it was exactly that that I completely traded. I guess

808
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: now when I'm looking at it, it was like to me,

809
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: I was like pivoting my values to figure out what

810
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: they were, and they definitely I wasn't now. I wasn't

811
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: happy with the values that I got through primary school with.

812
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I was like, I don't want to be

813
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: the good kid who always behaves, who always gets good grades,

814
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: who then gets bullied for getting those good grades, who

815
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: then experiences racism for getting those good grades. Like that

816
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: can't be life, and so let's do the opposite. Let's

817
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: let's do everything wrong because there are only two options

818
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: and that must be the way. Yeah, Like why would

819
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: somebody keep doing the thing that they're thinking is the

820
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: reason behind being ostracized or cornish? Exactly? So when you

821
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: asked what do you feel about being othered? I'd actually

822
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: say that I didn't feel comfortable being othered, and so

823
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: I traded everything that made me feel othered only to

824
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: feel othered the other way. Where now that I was

825
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: breaking rules, there were also lots of kids going like

826
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: why are you doing this? What's wrong with you? Like?

827
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: Why do you need to always you know, do something

828
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: to stand out, and I was like, oh, this doesn't

829
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 1: work either. Extreme efforts to calibrate, trying to figure out

830
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: where you fit in this world. Totally. Yeah, I definitely

831
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: wasn't happy as a teen in that sense. I think

832
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: it was hard for me to make real friends because

833
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: the kids that I wanted to be friends with, who

834
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: would be considered good kids, their parents didn't want them

835
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: spending time with me because I was the bad influence.

836
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: The kids that I did spend time with that my

837
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: parents wouldn't want me spending time with they never respected

838
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: you because you were always having to do something more

839
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: stupid or more ridiculous to gain everyone's respect. So that

840
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,479
Speaker 1: wasn't friendship either. Like you didn't feel you didn't feel

841
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: safe around those kids because those kids always made you

842
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: feel inferior unless you were going to do the next

843
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: difficult thing. It's like you're there to performance Little Monkey

844
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: Year totally, and then you don't feel safe around the

845
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: kids who are well behaved or whatever, because they somehow

846
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: doubt that you're the person their parents wanted to be around. Yeah,

847
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: so it's kind of like you don't feel again, you

848
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: feel other even at the other extreme, so it's like,

849
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm not cool enough to be the bad kids. And again,

850
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: I don't want to put labels on bad kids and

851
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: good kids, but I'm just using it as overarching terminology.

852
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: But you know, you're not cool enough to be around

853
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: kids who break the rules, but you're not enjoying being

854
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: well behaved enough around the kids who do well. If

855
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: that makes sense at school? Yeah, And a lot of

856
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: what you're describing, I think is like universally relatable to

857
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: lots of youths. It doesn't matter what country you grew

858
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: up in, but a lot of these dynamics end up

859
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: showing up in school. On top of that, You've mentioned

860
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: this a couple of times and we haven't really gotten

861
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: into it is racism. Experiencing racism as such a small child,

862
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: not really brilliant, being able to process what's even happening,

863
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: or understanding what that's like. So as you reflect on

864
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: it now as an adult, can you tell me a

865
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: bit about that experience. Yeah, I think there were days

866
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: growing up where and this was very subconscious. I can

867
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: only probably think about this now, but I think I

868
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: grew up and they were definitely, if I'm completely honest,

869
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: there were probably days where I wished I wasn't Indian

870
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: because people made fun of people with Indian accents. Obviously,

871
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: I was born and raised in London, so and obviously

872
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: I've lived in the States for the last six years,

873
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: so I have somewhat of a British New York LA

874
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: mix of whatever my accent sounds like now. But yeah,

875
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: I just didn't think people thought Indian people had a

876
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: identity or reduced to something totally. Yeah, and so I've

877
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: spoken to my American friends about this, but it's like

878
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: almost like when you watch the Simpsons, you see a

879
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: Pooh and then I remember the first time I went

880
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: to a barbershop when I came to LA and I

881
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: want to get my haircut, and the lady at the

882
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: barbershop was really confused by my accent and how I

883
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: spoke basically how I looked, and she was like, well,

884
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: where are you from? And I was like, I'm from

885
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: London and she was like, oh like. I literally thought

886
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: everyone who looked Indian like spoke like a Pooh like.

887
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: That was her literal statement for me. That's in La like.

888
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: And I moved to LA four years ago. This isn't

889
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: very recently. Yeah, this isn't like decades ago. I was like, wow,

890
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, and there was a part of me that

891
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: had that feeling growing up where I didn't think being

892
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: in these are again my teens, I didn't think being

893
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: Indian was a strength or was I saw as a weakness.

894
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: I don't have a very confident answer on that, but yeah,

895
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: there were parts of that, and it's it's it's so

896
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: fascinating to me now when I look at it him like,

897
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 1: you know, India's wisdom became like my heart and soul

898
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: and you know, spending time in India and my monkhood,

899
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: and it's it's so fascinating to think that there were

900
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: so many there's so many contradictions in my life, and

901
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: I almost go in the direction that contradicts what I'm

902
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: feeling at the time, only to discover more depth in

903
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: that in that pursuit, you know, where now I consider

904
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: the wisdom I gained from the Eastern literatures to be

905
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: one of the greatest gifts in my entire life. Yeah,

906
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: it's just interesting connecting the dots. I've always found connecting

907
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: the dots and multiple stages in my life very interesting,

908
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, connecting dots like fully embracing something that you

909
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: previously rejected as part of you know, understanding of yourself.

910
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: It sounds like I'm feeling like it wasn't like when

911
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: you were a kid that you were overtly thinking and

912
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: absorbing it as like these people don't like me because

913
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm Indian. It's more just they have an idea of

914
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: what an Indian is supposed to be and I don't

915
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: want to be that. Correct, I guess that. And then

916
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: teenage age, it was just like what can I mold

917
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: myself to that everyone will like? I think it was

918
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: as simple as that, right, It was like what will

919
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: everyone applaud? And like, I remember being a class clown

920
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: and doing stupid stuff as a class clown because that

921
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: got the approval of my peers, and now in a

922
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: little back, I would never do something like that. Yeah,

923
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: I think that all started to change definitely when I

924
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: became a monk, because when I started spending time with monks,

925
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: because I went from almost being confident in my parents'

926
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: identity in up till ten years old, to then rejecting

927
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: my parents identity and trying to be everything everyone wanted

928
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: to be, to then choosing to become a monk which

929
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: was the most random thing to become, purely because the

930
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: most inspirational and interesting person I had met by the

931
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: time I was twenty one twenty two was a monk.

932
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 1: And that was the reason. It was like, this person's

933
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 1: figured out life. They're confident, they are happy, they are content,

934
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: and they found it through being a monk, and they're

935
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: helping other people. Those all seem like good values, right,

936
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: Like when I talk about why I became a monk,

937
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: it was I loved meeting someone who had focused on

938
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: mastering envy and ego and jealousy and comparison, and like

939
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: he was a person who was talking about how that's

940
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: what you learned being a monk, and I was like, well,

941
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: that makes sense, because none of those things have served me.

942
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking that at eighteen, where I was

943
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: like when I first met him, I was like, yeah,

944
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: like comparing myself to others, feeling envious, having an ego,

945
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: none of those things have helped me, and they don't

946
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: seem like useful things. And then he was talking about

947
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: how talent and skills and gifts were to help people

948
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: and that life was about serving people and life was

949
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: about improving other people's lives. And I was like, I

950
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: think that resonated with me too, because I guess I'd

951
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: seen people have painful lives that made sense, and I

952
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: was like, all right, I want that. And I think

953
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: when I first started my monk could I even redirected

954
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: the validation to the monks. So it's almost like I

955
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: went from wanting my parents validation to wanting all my

956
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: friends validation, to then wanting the monks validation, which I

957
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: imagine monks would say, like, this is not what you're

958
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: here for. Really, yeah, And that's why it was the

959
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: best shutdown, because your parents will validate you for doing

960
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: what they said, right, they pretty much will. Parents will

961
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: generally say yeah, good, well done. Your friends never validate

962
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: you and make you feel inferior. And then it's like

963
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: the monks teach you how to validate yourself and what

964
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: that means. And so I think that those three years

965
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: I learned the habits and the steps to like what

966
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: does it mean to validate myself? And I think when

967
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: I had to leave, that's when I really learned to

968
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: validate myself because now I couldn't seek anyone's validation because

969
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: I just lived the random as life and no one

970
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: could say to me, yeah, you're on the right path,

971
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: because it was such a random path to go from

972
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: university to the monka then back to reality. And so

973
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: I think that was the moment where it clicked for

974
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: me that the only person who could reassure me was me.

975
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: And I think that was really tough being mothered again,

976
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: because the other thing then was before I became a monk,

977
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: it was You're never going to get a job again,

978
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: You're never going to make money again, no one's ever

979
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: going to marry you. This is the worst decision. You're

980
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: letting your parents down. You wasted their investment in your education.

981
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: To then coming back to we told you so, we

982
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: knew you wouldn't make it as a monk. You wasted

983
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: your life, you know, three years old? Or didn't you

984
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: see that friend of you as they just bought a

985
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: new car. They they're getting a mortgage on a house,

986
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: like you know, and you come back to that and

987
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, wow, I'm out of place again. And

988
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: so I think now I've just got so used to

989
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: being out of place that it's become my place and

990
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: I enjoy it now. I love being out of place.

991
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: This journey to monk could you you listed some things

992
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: about like this inspirational, influential person that you met as

993
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: a young person, and it's like, that's what I want

994
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: to be, or at least it's like, I don't want

995
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 1: to be him, but I just want to be I

996
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: didn't want to be him, and I failed. I can't.

997
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: He's so amazing, it's incredible. Yeah, it sounds like that

998
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: journey turned into from I want to be him too.

999
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: I want to be someone that I want to be. Yes,

1000
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: and those things you listed, like somebody that is not

1001
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: comparing themselves to others, like all these things. That's stuff

1002
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: I think often is what leads people to bully other people.

1003
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: So I wonder if there's like some piece of you

1004
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: that wanted to understand the bullies. Yeah, I definitely. I've

1005
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: never been a bully in my life for sure, Like

1006
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: that is never something I became. And even when I'm

1007
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: talking about being a class clown or things like that,

1008
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: it was never. Maybe I bullied teaches a bit, so yeah,

1009
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: so I was a bully, but not bully to kids,

1010
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: which is even worse. I feel so terrible. I feel

1011
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: terrible saying that, Yeah I bullied. Yeah, we used to

1012
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: be a class clown. It's a bully of teachers, but

1013
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: I didn't bully the kids. That doesn't make it any better,

1014
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: but it's And then now I have good relationships with

1015
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: all those teachers, which is their their kindness to me.

1016
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: I went back and apologize to everyone when I learned

1017
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: that I had messed up, and thankfully, I think most

1018
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 1: of those teachers have forgiven me and kind of didn't

1019
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: take it. They didn't take it as seriously as I

1020
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: made it out to me, which was really kind of

1021
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: them and nice to them as well, Like they were

1022
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: just like, Jay, you were a kid, Like it's fine.

1023
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: But I think I definitely felt at one point that

1024
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: I had to go back and apologize and just not

1025
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: feel like my actions were justified just because I was

1026
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: a kid. You had just mentioned that this this inspirational

1027
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: person right, had all these qualities, right, And it's like

1028
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: I was thinking while you were saying, that's like, oh,

1029
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: those are some of the things that lead people to

1030
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: bully others, right, It's like their comparison stuff and just

1031
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: like the feelings that they have about themselves or not

1032
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: about themselves, And it's like, what do you think of

1033
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: the bullies? I guess now that you've reflected so much

1034
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: on yourself, what about these people that caused your suffering?

1035
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: Do you think about them? And this is one of

1036
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: those things I feel bad about as well, Like it

1037
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: is something that I don't talk about it because I

1038
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: feel bad about it. It's like I've just always been

1039
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 1: a very naturally forgiving person since I was a kid,

1040
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: Like I don't find forgiveness hard. And that's annoying sometimes

1041
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: because you can annoy people I love too, because I

1042
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: can kind of move on and get on with stuff

1043
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: and understand that people didn't have. I kind of contextually

1044
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: will figure out what they didn't have. Again, Forgiveness doesn't

1045
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: mean I allow bad things to happen around me or

1046
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: two people I love. I don't mean in that way.

1047
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: I mean that I've never been one to hold grudges.

1048
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: It's just not how I'm built and not how I'm wired.

1049
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: And so I don't think I wanted to understand the bullies.

1050
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: I think I wanted to help heal the bullies, or

1051
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: just I wanted to help heal myself and I wanted

1052
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: to help heal others, and I wanted the skills to

1053
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: do that because I just saw so much pain for

1054
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 1: no reason. I think that's how I've always felt. I

1055
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: feel like most conflict and most pain is based on

1056
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: such insignificant, irrelevant desires and emotions in the sense of

1057
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: you think about why people fight with each other or

1058
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: even at a grand scale, like why people do bad things.

1059
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: It's deep trauma or it's deep issue for them, for sure,

1060
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: but it's something that could have been helped if given

1061
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: the right support. And so there's a part of me

1062
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: that just believes that I just didn't want people to

1063
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 1: have to make bad decisions just because they didn't. I

1064
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: made bad decisions in my life, not because I was

1065
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: a bad person, but because I didn't have good information.

1066
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: So I was like, if we gave people with bad

1067
00:52:53,840 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: experiences and bad parenting and bad childhood's good tools and

1068
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: good skills and good experiences, then maybe they could avoid

1069
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: repeating that. And I think that's what I saw in

1070
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: the monks, where it almost felt like data renewed or

1071
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: they'd regenerated, where they weren't carrying the weight of their

1072
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 1: past either. And I'm not saying that about every month

1073
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: in the world. I'm just saying the ones that the

1074
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: couple of people that I know, everyone in the monk

1075
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: who is also in hospital, in the sense that they're

1076
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: also all improving. It's not that you're perfect if you're there.

1077
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 1: But the few people that I had seen it gone

1078
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: the distance gave me faith that they were happier and

1079
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: more content than the person who's got the fancy job

1080
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: in my city and still feels insecure. Right, it was

1081
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: almost like seeing I think it was more that I

1082
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: was seeing that the method of I think by eighteen,

1083
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: I had seen people perfectly follow the academic system to

1084
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: get into a school to do a degree they didn't

1085
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: want to do. And I'd see in friends be extreme,

1086
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: take risks, make mistakes, get into trouble, potentially end up

1087
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: in jail or you know, something of that. And so

1088
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: it's like I'd seen the polar opposites of like, here's

1089
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: a kid who does everything wrong who's ended up here,

1090
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: and here's a kid who does everything right and they're

1091
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: not happy either. So then how does that make any sense?

1092
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 1: Like the person who's ended up in prison or in trouble,

1093
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: who's all got kicked out of school is not happy,

1094
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: and the person who's just got access to the best

1095
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: college in the country is not happy. Like how does

1096
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: that make sense? And I think that's where I was, like,

1097
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: and this guy's happy, Like, what does he figured out?

1098
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: And he's done something completely different? Right, He's he's not

1099
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: followed the status quo and he's not he's broken the

1100
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 1: status quo, but in a interesting way. And I don't

1101
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: think that that is only gained by being a monk.

1102
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: But it's an interesting idea that fascinated me was I

1103
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: didn't want to follow the rules, and I didn't want

1104
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: to break the rules. I want to define a way

1105
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: to not have rules, or find better rules, or create

1106
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: my own rules, or just like look for freedom of authenticity.

1107
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: You mentioned something about like I wasn't able to live

1108
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: authentically and something deep inside of you wanted that. It

1109
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: sounds like, really, your whole life is about, or has

1110
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: been about, like identifying something that's desirable or undesirable and

1111
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: either fully embracing or fully rejecting it in order to

1112
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 1: get closer to this place of just feeling at peace. Yeah,

1113
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: while this seems very important to you, while being able

1114
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: to help other people and prevent any pain and suffering

1115
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: for them in whatever ways that I can, And it

1116
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: seems like the bullying, the racism, the ostracizing, all these

1117
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: things that you experience as a child, like it's still

1118
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: with you now. You know, you don't want others to

1119
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: suffer because suffering doesn't feel good, And it seems like

1120
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: you took your suffering and turned it into something that's

1121
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: like really impactful, I would hope so. And I think

1122
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: I did that since I was young with my parents.

1123
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: I'd listen to my parents about their challenges and their issues,

1124
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: and I'd sit with pretty much everyone since I was

1125
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: a kid and hear them out and you know, walk

1126
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 1: them through it. And I think for a long time,

1127
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: until I became a monk, I never had time for

1128
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: my own problems in one sense, because you're already always

1129
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: dealing with other peoples and that's not smart. But yeah,

1130
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think there was a long

1131
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 1: time in my life where I definitely want to end

1132
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: optional pain or optional pain. It's what you talk about, like,

1133
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: there's there's stuff that you want to end that you

1134
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: can control or help people end it so that they

1135
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: can stop that pattern in their family or that that

1136
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: generational challenge or whatever it may be. So yeah, I

1137
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: think that was definitely a big part of why I

1138
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: followed this road. Yeah, definitely have put my pain into purpose.

1139
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: And that sounds like a cliche and it sounds like

1140
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: a you know, an overset thing. Maybe now, But when

1141
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: I was doing everything right or being the good kid,

1142
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: life wasn't fun. And I knew I wanted life to

1143
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: be a thrill, and then I thought being the bad

1144
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: kid was what gave me a thrill. But I actually

1145
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy that thrill. It was very uncomfortable because none

1146
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: of what I was doing was aligned with my values.

1147
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: And I think the life I have today is a

1148
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: life that perfectly. My life is massively thrilling, so fun,

1149
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: and it's purposeful and it's impactful, and so today I

1150
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: have that mix. But it took me going from one

1151
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum to the other end of the

1152
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: spectrum to figure out. And I'm not saying it's a balance.

1153
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's in the middle. I don't think

1154
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: it is. I think it's just creation and invention and

1155
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: building of Yeah, who do I want to be? And

1156
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: am I okay being that? And am I okay being that?

1157
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: Even if I have pure intentions and even if I care,

1158
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: and even if I'm trying to do the right thing.

1159
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: There will still be people who don't understand me and

1160
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: don't agree with me, and becoming okay with that has

1161
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: been really the goal of my life of reason. I like,

1162
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: that's been what I been focused on, at least for

1163
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: the last few years, is how do I get acceptance

1164
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: of who I am genuinely yea and being okay with that,

1165
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: like I am someone who enjoys. I talk about this

1166
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: like I love being a monk, and there's so much

1167
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: of my life where I still think like a monk.

1168
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: But I love being an entrepreneur. I get so much

1169
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 1: out of growing something and building something and scaling it.

1170
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: I love being a podcast host and at the same time,

1171
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: I love being an author, and I like, I love

1172
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: all aspects of me and I'm okay being them, even

1173
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: if they're contradictory, because I don't want to limit myself anymore.

1174
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: I think I limited myself in the beginning based on

1175
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: what society kind of put out, and then I limited

1176
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: by being with the bad kids and what that meant.

1177
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't want to limit myself

1178
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: because of what people think anymore, because that never made

1179
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: me happy, and of course that has limits to it,

1180
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: Like you know, I wouldn't do anything painful or hurtful,

1181
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: And I'm not going that far. I'm just saying that, Yeah,

1182
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: I want to allow myself to be every part of

1183
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: me that's authentic and real and true, even if it's

1184
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: contradictory or paradoxical to other people. Getting to a place

1185
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: in life where you can let go of all the shoulda,

1186
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: coulda would us And like even when you say I'm

1187
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: doing things that might be contradictory, I'm glad you added

1188
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: to other people. It sounds like something important to you

1189
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: has been and you're achieving this now, as like being

1190
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: able to do stuff and move to your life and

1191
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: just not really place a lot of value and what

1192
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: other people think of it, how people perceive it or

1193
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: accepted in whatever, and in that journey, Like when people

1194
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: are like that and they exude this thing about them

1195
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: where they get the validation from themselves, a side effect

1196
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,959
Speaker 1: often is that people begin to like you. People want

1197
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: to be around you because it's that thing that someone

1198
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: did for you. It's like I want to be him,

1199
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:46,919
Speaker 1: or at least I want to be around him. Yeah,

1200
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: And that comes with its own pain points where it's

1201
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: like you don't want anyone to become like you, because

1202
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: you know that it wasn't smart when you wanted to

1203
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: be like someone and say you're like, please don't become

1204
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: like me, because again you go on that journey. But

1205
00:59:58,240 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to go on that journey of wanting

1206
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: to be like someone to figure out who you are.

1207
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: And and it also becomes hard because you also realize

1208
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: that people like a facet of you or a part

1209
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: of you that they experience. And yeah, it's it's hard

1210
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: not to want to be liked. And it's and I

1211
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: would I enjoy being liked. I don't think i'd be

1212
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: lying if I was like, oh, I don't want to

1213
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: be liked. That's true. I like being liked. It's a

1214
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: wonderful feeling to be liked. You just don't want to.

1215
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: You've now stopped yourself becoming moldible and malleable to be liked.

1216
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. It's like you're not

1217
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: willing to break yourself in order to be liked. Is

1218
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: what has changed? Man? How much better does it feel

1219
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: to be liked for just being who you are and

1220
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: for accepting who you are? That's much better and satisfaction

1221
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: I think is much greater than being liked for try

1222
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,919
Speaker 1: so hard to be what you think that they will like. Yeah. Yeah,

1223
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: I remember like the payer pressure of drinking alcohol when

1224
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: I quit drinking alcohol because I started spending too much

1225
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: time with monks and they weren't really into drinking alcohol.

1226
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 1: So that was like a big moment of starting to

1227
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: do something. So I was someone who was always the

1228
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: life of the party by that age and like fun

1229
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: to be around and would love playing drinking games, and

1230
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: I was a competitive drinker and I've always been a

1231
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: competitive person, so that I would apply to any area

1232
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: of my life. And then I went from like that

1233
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: after one summer holidays coming back and being like, hey,

1234
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: I don't drink anymore, and all my friends were like

1235
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you? Like that was such a

1236
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: big identity shift for people. And when I got through that,

1237
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you can change your identity, Like

1238
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: you can you can change and people come with you.

1239
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: And those same people who thought I was cool for

1240
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: drinking were still my friends. And now I was like, oh,

1241
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: like I thought I was going to lose all those

1242
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: people because I didn't drink anymore. Because I wasn't going

1243
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: out to parties anymore. And doing this and that, but

1244
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: I didn't like there was more to me than that,

1245
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: more to me than my preferences and my interests. Yeah,

1246
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: And so I think credit to those friends who stuck

1247
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: around too when I got into spirituality and wisdom based

1248
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: stuff like not everyone there are certain friends who like

1249
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 1: that's too much, and there are certain friends who come

1250
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: with you on the journey too, And so I think

1251
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: that was another thing. I think there have been lots

1252
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: of pivots in my life where I've made tough choices

1253
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: about what identity I have and how I portray that

1254
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: to people and being okay with the risk that that

1255
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: may mean that I may become irrelevant as some people.

1256
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's now built that strength and

1257
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: confidence because it's just been so long of having done that,

1258
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: but a long journey to kind of integrate, reconcile so

1259
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: much of your childhood and what's important to you now?

1260
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: How did you get through all of this? I mean,

1261
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: I know you're sitting in front of me right now,

1262
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: but it's like, I guess, like a final thing I'd

1263
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: like to kind of reflect on with you is just like,

1264
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: what do you think the small child J had to

1265
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 1: get through all this, we talked about some stuff that

1266
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: maybe we think it is now, but the only thing

1267
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: that ever comes down to it is like this, and

1268
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful feelings like I know my mom loves me,

1269
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: and it's almost like that's like the I know that

1270
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: if if anything was to fall apart, my mom would

1271
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: turn out like and obviously she's still alive, and obviously

1272
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: when she won't be here anymore one day, it's like,

1273
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I'll still feel it. Internally, I don't.

1274
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: Obviously I haven't lived with my mom for years, so

1275
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: I've still felt that. But I think it's always been

1276
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: that confidence of like, my mom loves me, and that's

1277
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: that's kind of the only thing I can go to them,

1278
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: like when you've been And that's not to say that

1279
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: my mom, you know me are perfect, but I feel

1280
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: like when you've received like that kind of pure love

1281
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: from someone, it's hard to think you need anything else.

1282
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 1: So that's the only answer I can actually come up with. It.

1283
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: That's all I ever had was I knew that. So

1284
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: even when I took risks, or even when I have

1285
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: taken risk and whether they failed or they went right,

1286
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 1: my mom was always there to catch me. And so

1287
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: when I was doing badly at school, it's like as

1288
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 1: in in terms of getting involved in the wrong circles.

1289
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:01,479
Speaker 1: My mom was upset with me, but she still caught

1290
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: me with love. And so my parents would discipline me,

1291
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: but they still caught me with love. And I think

1292
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: that balance was really interesting where it's like, I mean,

1293
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: there was there was months where I was suspended from

1294
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: school and my mom had to go pick up homework

1295
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: and then bring it back and I'd do it from home,

1296
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: and like, there were so many reasons my parents could

1297
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: have been so upset with me, and they were. They

1298
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: didn't just drop me in that sense. They weren't just

1299
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: like you're a failure and you messed up and you're

1300
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: you know it was and they were strict and they

1301
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: were disciplining, and they were you know, they were tough

1302
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: on me when I was growing up, but I think

1303
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: they also had had love behind that. For me, there

1304
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: was a good balance between discipline, making you know you

1305
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: made a mistake, making sure that you are remorseful and

1306
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: regretful and that you've trying to get better, but that

1307
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: there was a forgiveness and an acceptance that you made

1308
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: a mistake and you can change. So even when I

1309
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 1: came back from the monastery, or they've they've just they

1310
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: just caught me every time. And so I think that

1311
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: gives you a sense of security that your laws love

1312
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: no matter what. Love is very powerful, and it's clear

1313
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: that you radiate love for yourself and love for existence. Whyever,

1314
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: we have all that, So I do sense that love

1315
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 1: will carry you through so much in your entire life.

1316
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: So I'm really glad that you had that, because not

1317
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: all people do. That's what it is, right, That's that's

1318
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: what I find so hard, is that a lot of

1319
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: this stuff becomes easier when you've had kind of like

1320
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: a very loving relationship with a parent and then my

1321
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: monk teachers who also love me in the same way.

1322
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: And so it's having those people, I think, having pillars

1323
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: of of love in your life. It's like, you know,

1324
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm trying to be for anyone I meet,

1325
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: Like I try and be that with everyone I meet.

1326
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 1: I want to have. I want to be a vessel

1327
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: of so much love that I could help everyone feel

1328
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 1: that way. They don't have to be my child, or

1329
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: they don't have to be my best friend in the

1330
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: world to feel that. I want everyone who comes into

1331
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: my world to feel that way if I could, And

1332
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: so I kind of walk around wanting to have that

1333
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: energy always. And that's harder because it comes with a

1334
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 1: lot of challenges of your own. And yeah, thank you

1335
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: so much for this, this conversation. This is a beautiful

1336
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: and it's you know, when you're doing this, I consider

1337
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: myself someone who's done a lot of this reflection. I'm

1338
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,919
Speaker 1: speaking to everyone who's back at home now, or whether

1339
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: you're walking a dog, or whether you're cooking or you know,

1340
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: whatever you're up to right now as you're listening and

1341
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: watching this, I feel like I've done so much self

1342
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 1: reflection that if I'm sitting down like this, the question

1343
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: can be like what do you gain or what do

1344
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: you learn? I find conversations like this useful regardless of

1345
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: whether I discover something new, because I think we've placed

1346
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: such an emphasis on what's new, what's new, what's new?

1347
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 1: And to me, it's not always what's new to me,

1348
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: it's like, well, what kind of sat deeper? Like what

1349
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: kind of like went deeper for me? What was an

1350
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 1: idea that I shared with you that, even if it

1351
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: wasn't a new dot that was connected for me. It's like,

1352
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 1: but that dot was strengthened, and I think of strength

1353
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: and depth more important than new again, like, I feel

1354
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: like so many ideas I have today got strengthened. So

1355
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: many ideas that I already have today gained more depth

1356
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 1: by talking to you and the questions you asked. I

1357
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: also felt that I was able to be vulnerable and

1358
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: open up with you and on my platform, and I

1359
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: was trying all the time to not really filter what

1360
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: I was saying, and I think that's a habit that

1361
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: I find very therapeutic to water, which is why we're

1362
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: doing this. And I was definitely I brought up some

1363
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: old memories that I hadn't visited for a while, and

1364
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: even though they didn't those memories may not be ones

1365
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: that I have huge emotion attached to, but they were

1366
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 1: useful in pinpointing some of the beginnings of some ideas

1367
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: and beginning of some good and bad habits. And I

1368
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: think I find that very interesting. So looking back and

1369
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: going where did this start? Where did this start? And

1370
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: sometimes it's just happy, like I'm like, oh right, I

1371
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 1: realized that I started helping people at that age, or

1372
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: I just eating too. I studying too fast for that age,

1373
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: and that stayed with me and I enjoy finding that connection.

1374
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 1: So I find conversation like I'm walking away feeling very happy, reassured,

1375
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 1: and you know, a sense of definitely love. Like ending

1376
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: with that was really beautiful, a leg to just think

1377
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: about my mom in that way. And when you ask,

1378
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: like what if you what got you through? And that's

1379
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: the only thing that I could think of. It's also

1380
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 1: nice when you realize what got you through is something

1381
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: that someone gave you, and then you live in gratitude

1382
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 1: because of that. So yeah, I think lots of wonderful reminders,

1383
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: lots of wonderful reassurance is very therapeutic. I feel very

1384
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: heart opened, very healed, which is always you know, it's beautiful.

1385
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: And so I think when you're sitting with your therapists,

1386
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: if you already go to therapy, new is good, but

1387
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: look for strength and depth as well in ideas that

1388
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 1: you are trying to gain clarity over if you don't

1389
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: already go to therapy. I hope this helps show you

1390
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: that it was just a genuine conversation. It wasn't I

1391
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: wasn't forced to go anywhere. I don't want to. It's

1392
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: very self reflective for me to see whether I found

1393
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 1: supporting it or help in it or you know. And

1394
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 1: I also loved how you explained why you were asking

1395
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: certain questions. I found that very useful, and so I

1396
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: encourage you. If you have a therapist right now who

1397
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 1: doesn't do that, they may not know that you like that.

1398
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: And if you're like me and you like that, feel

1399
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: free to ask your therapist that as well, and say, hey,

1400
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 1: by the way, like when you ask me a question,

1401
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: could you explain to me why you're asking it and

1402
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: like where it sits? And sometimes they may say no

1403
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: because that may defeat the purpose of the question, and

1404
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 1: sometimes they may say yes and they'll explain it. And

1405
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 1: so I think it's important that you see as that

1406
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 1: relationship too, where you're able to ask for those explanations.

1407
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't have asked for them, but now that

1408
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: you've done it, I'm like, oh, they really helped me,

1409
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: Like those were great explanations. So heys you any last

1410
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 1: words for anyone who's been listening or watching. I didn't

1411
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: have any till that last comment. Like, I would also

1412
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: encourage anybody to bring up their questions, challenge their therapists.

1413
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: A lot of people are unwilling to do that because

1414
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: they don't want to cross the therapist. They want the

1415
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 1: therapist to like them. They don't want to do something

1416
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 1: that they think will rupture the relationship. But this is

1417
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:10,839
Speaker 1: one of the safest places to practice bringing up uncomfortable questions.

1418
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: This is something we all struggle with, especially in our

1419
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 1: significant relationships with our family. But it's like, that's what

1420
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 1: the therapist is there to help you practice and get through,

1421
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: is asking hard questions, being challenged as another person. You know,

1422
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 1: if your therapist says or does something that you don't like,

1423
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: bring it up. Yeah, Otherwise it's going to be inside

1424
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 1: of you and more than like, your therapist is going

1425
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: to be able to feel that something is weird. Yeah,

1426
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: And if you don't bring it up, they're probably going

1427
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: to ask you about it. So that's a great opportunity

1428
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 1: to then bring it up. And I think there were

1429
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: pots where it's not that I disagreed, but that I

1430
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not sure about that. I actually feel this,

1431
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 1: and I feel very comfortable to do that, and I

1432
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 1: didn't feel like judge by you or that you were

1433
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: upset that I did that. You would make an observation,

1434
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: I'd be like, well, no, it's more like this, and

1435
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 1: I think it doesn't have to become a yeah, it

1436
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: doesn't have to become an agreeing disagreeing thing. It's just

1437
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: a flowing, evolving thing. And then actually it's something new

1438
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: that I think for me was to admit to someone

1439
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: that I do feel bad sometimes about not feeling bad

1440
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: about something like that was big for me, because yeah,

1441
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,560
Speaker 1: it's it's hard when you're wide a certain way and

1442
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: you don't know why, and it's beneficial and I think

1443
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 1: being able to get that off my chest is actually

1444
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 1: quite nice. And to all of you as well. We've

1445
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: been listening and watching where it's like, yeah, some things

1446
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: do come naturally to me and easily to me, and

1447
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 1: I can't help that. I didn't pay for that and

1448
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 1: ask for that. I didn't get that subscription when I

1449
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: came into life, right, it wasn't to some people who

1450
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: would be like, well, you didn't even achieve that or

1451
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: earn that, But I'm hoping that that's what helps me

1452
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 1: help other people, is that there are certain things that

1453
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: not that I haven't had to figure out, but that

1454
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 1: have come in a helpful, healed way, so yeah, thank you,

1455
01:11:57,600 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Everyone's been listening and watching at home.

1456
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: Please do share the things that stood out to you.

1457
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 1: Please do pass on. If this episode helped you, I

1458
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: really hope it will encourage yourself, people, and your family

1459
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,680
Speaker 1: friends to have these conversations, even if it is with

1460
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: your friend, and then encourage them to go to therapy

1461
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: as well, and hopefully show you or hopefully gives an

1462
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: example of me going to therapy in this session and

1463
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 1: making it easier and accessible for people to think and

1464
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: understand how normal and how okay all of these things are.

1465
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: And of course I want to give a big thank

1466
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 1: you to our partner, Better Help, who's encouraging these conversations

1467
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: and giving affordable access to therapy online from the comfort

1468
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: of your home. So thank you very much again, really

1469
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: appreciate you all. This episode was sponsored by better Help

1470
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 1: Online Therapy. Big thanks again to Hey Sue Joe, head

1471
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 1: of clinical operations at better Help. So just so you know,

1472
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 1: this was a therapy session that you got to get

1473
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: a look inside of. But hey, Sue Joe is not

1474
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 1: my therapist. We do not have a therapist client relationship.

1475
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 1: But I wanted to show you what a therapy session

1476
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,240
Speaker 1: could look like also just because you might hear something

1477
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 1: on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing.

1478
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 1: Beware of self diagnosis. You want to find a qualified

1479
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 1: professional to assess and explore diagnosis if that's important to

1480
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: you