WEBVTT - Don't Worry Darling with Payton McCarty-Simas 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:02.120 On the Bechdelcast. 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:04.000 The questions asked if movies have. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.920 Women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:12.480 or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn bast 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.239 start changing with the Bechdelcast. 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.320 Welcome to the podcast that feels like a podcast where 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.800 we discuss movies that feel like movies. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.800 Because they are movies and sometimes it's not that complicated. No, 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.200 my name is Caitlindante, my name is Jamie Loftus, and 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.000 we are the podcasters who feel like podcasters because we 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:38.480 are podcasters. Yes, this is the Bechdel Cast podcast where 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.800 we take a look at your favorite movies or just movies. 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:48.200 Uh, using it like using an intersectional feminist lens, using 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.000 the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.280 But Caitlyn, what the hell is that? I don't remember 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.400 because I'm being trapped by an incell. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.319 Oh no, well, it's a media metric created by our 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.920 best friend Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her comic Dikes 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.320 to Watch Out For in the eighties. It has since 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:12.000 become a media metric that is used to determine do 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.080 women interact in a movie? And if so, do they 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.479 talk to each other about something other than a man? 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.280 Our version is, do two characters of a marginalized gender 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.160 have names speak to each other? And is the conversation 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.960 about something other than a man? Ideally it is narratively 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:35.040 meaningful dialogue and not just throw away nonsense. This movie 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.520 doesn't really have a problem with the Bechdel test. 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.160 It just has a problem with a. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:40.160 Lot of other stuff. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.640 I'm very excited to talk about this movie. Yes, this 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.400 was a movie that when it came out, it's don't worry, darling, 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.360 We're not trying to withhold this information. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.480 Yeah, there's no big twist at the end. 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.000 End, no big twist that the director. Upon revisiting the 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.160 press cycle, the director spoilers the movie in almost every interview, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.600 which is wild. She's like, yeah, ye, so I based 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.640 Chris Pine's character on Jordan Peterson. Like you really should 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.920 not have said that. That's like that ruins it. Anyways. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.280 I don't even remember what I was saying, because it 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.239 just this movie is so silly. Oh oh, this is 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:15.920 a movie that we got a ton of requests for 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.320 when it came out, and we've been trying to for 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.600 the most part not cover movies right when they come out, 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.119 because it's hard to have any sort of objectivity, especially 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.440 when a movie was as discussed to death as this 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.959 one was. Oh yes, but it feels like it's been 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.400 enough time. And also we have an incredible guest, so 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:35.440 let's get them in here. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:40.639 They are an author, programmer, and film critic and their 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.840 new book That Very Witch, Fear, Feminism and the American 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.240 Witch Film is something that you should get and read. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.160 I'm halfway through it. It's terrific. 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.320 It's Peyton McCarty, Semas welcome, Hi. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:55.840 Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.600 about this real go to the theater movie. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.600 Oh my gosh. We come to this place for movies 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:02.919 that feel like movies, come to. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.320 This place for discourse. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:06.600 So first of all, tell us about your book. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:12.120 Yes, please, absolutely so. Basically, this book traces the evolution 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.160 of the witch in horror films as a vector for 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.520 the state of feminism at any given point in time 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.000 in history in America specifically. So as I go through, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.760 basically what I do is I give you a little 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:26.600 bit of a history and the politics of the moment, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.280 a little bit of the history of the feminism of 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.800 the moment, the history of the cinema of the period, 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.280 and then I tile of that together through the witch 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.400 films of that particular era. And what I figured out 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.520 was that, well, you know, witches have always been a 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.360 symbol of feminism, but at peak feminist activism in America 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.000 at these moments like the sixties and the twenty tens, 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.640 whiches in the horror film are depicted as super powerful, 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.080 which is, you know, intuitive in a certain sense, but 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.200 how they're depicted as powerful changes and can tell you 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.800 a lot about what's going on, and in moments of 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.080 something else very interesting occurs. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:08.040 So I researched this book for a little over half 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:12.920 a decade and it was basically my therapy for where 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.360 we are when the election happened. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.560 I didn't really have to change anything. I emailed my 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:21.760 editor and was like, I'm going to add two sentences 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.640 and then we're ready to go. So it definitely helped 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.839 me figure out how we got here. But it's also 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.080 I hope it's a fun time, you know, so gosh, so. 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:34.080 Yeah, can confirm it absolutely rocks. Thank you for writing it, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.160 And it looks also just like I don't know. I 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.600 was like, that must have been such a fun book 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:39.240 to research. 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.120 Oh my god, it was such a blast because you 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.280 get to you know, it's like the arc of American history, right, 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:45.840 So I got to spend a lot of time like 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.400 rocking out in the sixties and learning about acid and 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.359 the CIA, and then you know, you go to the 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:54.479 eighties and you're thinking about like punk subcultures and yuppies 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.719 and the nineties. You've got right, girl. It was. Yeah, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.880 it was a complete blast. That rocks amazing. 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:03.320 Thanks, we come to this place to discuss the movie. 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:10.159 Don't worry, darling, So follow up question, different question. What 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:15.320 is your history with this movie? I know it's pretty recent, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:15.960 but no. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.600 Yeah, when we were talking about what films to discuss today, 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.200 I saw that was an option, and I was so 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:28.880 excited because this movie made me so just flamingly livid 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.360 when it came out, Like I was all there, I 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.880 was all in right, like I love I just wrote 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.760 a piece. This is gonna I promise this will make sense. 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.040 But I just wrote a piece for Remorgue this year 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.680 called wah It's all connected, about a fake genre that 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.760 I made up of, like particularly conspiratorial kind of New 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.280 agey movies typically about men right, and like, whenever I 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.200 see a woman making like a seventies inspired parallax view 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.839 type movie, I'm there. I'm like, let let us do Grolboa, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:05.719 you know. But then watching it, it's so failed in 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:10.080 its politics, it so boggles the mind, and it has 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.200 so many script problems, like it's it's failed top to bottom. 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.560 So I was so pissed and I was excited to 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.839 just take it down. But rewatching it from twenty twenty five, 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.520 it really felt like more in sorrow than an anger, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.320 Like there's so much here that speaks to the moment 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.560 that had the potential to be really salient. And I 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.839 think even some of the angles that frustrated me the 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.080 first time, I actually found like some potential poignancy in, 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.320 particularly in the wake of the Charlie Kirk things. So 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.080 I think there's so much to unpack here. I'm still pissed. 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.920 I am still pissed, but it's like it's like pissed 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.719 because I'm disappointed, you know, I'm angry and disappointed. 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:47.080 Fair. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.159 Yeah, no, it's it is so funny for a movie 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.640 that is like, ultimately I also am like, let women 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.880 make b movies like, but I feel like it was 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.440 hard to not have a very particular relationship with this movie. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.440 If you were remotely plugged into pop culture at the time, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.560 you could not escape it. And it was interesting even 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:12.200 just three years later because of the rate that society 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.600 is deteriorating. I guess that you're like, the criticisms I 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.360 had three years ago are some, some remain consistent, but 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.640 there's also yeah, like you're saying peyton things I feel 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.120 a little gentler on now, and then things that I'm 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.400 even madder about then when I saw it the first time. 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.680 It's interesting, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie? 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.640 I saw it. I saw it in theaters and I 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.840 was like, well, I did not like that at all. 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.160 But but I mean I do think, like, I don't know. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.160 I think that the more recent example of this that 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.680 is far darker is this is a movie who, I 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.080 think for most people who are like keeping eyes on 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.240 it at the time, like has a more famous press 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.800 cycle than a plot. The press cycle for this movie 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.480 was absolutely inescapable in a way that it seems like 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.040 only helped the movie's box office a little bit. I 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.920 think the darker version of that was last year, two 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:12.840 years ago, with the the like Blake Lively justin Baldonia 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.920 of it all with it ends with us. Yeah, and 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.040 then you have pre cycles like Wicked where nothing went wrong, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.320 but you're like, what the fuck happened? And that's just fun. 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:24.960 So I was like, I think I was gonna see 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.680 this movie either way because I enjoyed BookSmart. It was 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.600 a fun little movie. It was nice to have a 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.400 whatever rising comedy director who is a woman, which is 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.200 something that still is pretty rare. And yeah, this movie 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.160 really just like does not come together in ways that 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.880 are infuriating sometimes and like funny. It's just like this 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:52.800 movie's like very naive in a lot of ways, like 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.440 if someone explained white feminism to an alien, which could 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.920 have been what happened? Who knows? Yeah, Yeah, I've basically 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.600 my definitive statement here is that the second, like there's 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.520 a one of many profiles of Olivia Wilde around the 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.440 time this movie came out was her saying explicitly the 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.559 inspiration for this movie is the feminine mystique, which makes 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.240 so much sense because the feminine mystique is a valuable, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.560 famous text that only concerns itself with the white middle class, 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.600 which is very much what this movie is, and it 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.400 feels kind of like a semi like not really a 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.800 coherent criticism that also feels both early and late. It's weird. 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.599 This movie's a weird one. That's what my That's what 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.720 I have to say. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie? 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.480 I didn't see it in theaters. I saw it maybe 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.439 like six months after it had come and gone from 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.560 its theatrical release, and by that point I had heard 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.800 all of the all the reviews that were not favorable 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.600 of this movie and all the people just being. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.559 Like that sucked so bad, that was trash and blah 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.720 blah blah. So I went in thinking it was going 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:07.520 to be like incoherent drivel, which I don't think that's 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.120 the case obviously. I think that it has a lot 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.520 of problems and it falls short in the commentary it's 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.560 trying to make. But I was expecting some like really 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.760 incompetent filmmaking, and I was like, oh, it's you know, 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.760 it's basically the plot of the Stepford Wives, but you know, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.920 it's it's not horrendous. But I also wasn't watching it 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.959 specifically through a Bechdel cast lens that first time, and 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.520 now rewatching it which I was like, oh god, do 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:41.160 I have to for this episode? I noticed many many 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:46.440 more of the problems and I'm excited to discuss. So 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.840 let's take a quick break and then we'll come back 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:51.320 for the recap. 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:06.080 And we are back, shall we shall We get into 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.600 the plot and Peyton feel free to jump in whenever 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.800 if you have a pressing thought, which this movie is 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.160 so many. I have so many intrusive thoughts about this movie. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.200 And I was like re remembering the Harry styles memes 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.839 of his acting, which isn't as bad as people said, 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:24.199 but it's not good. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.800 Okay that too. Everyone was like he did gives the 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.280 worst performance ever. And I was just like, it was. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.920 Fine, he gives he gives up performance. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:33.439 Okay, he's trying his best. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.600 It feels like he's I know. I was like, am 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:36.480 I coddling him? 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.240 Yes, which, like you know, girl Boss Sleigh, you can 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.120 anyone can put their younger attractive bow in the movie, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.400 you know, like the ingenoeu of it all was really good. 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.880 I was. It was kind of funny where I was like, 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.320 okay for Olivia Wild to some extent, she's like girl 0:11:54.360 --> 0:12:00.000 bossing Osha violations. She's like women should violate HR contracts 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.560 and you're like, yeah, yeah, exactly. I also forgot about 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.800 do you guys remember the spit thing. I just was like, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.960 oh yeah, having all of these like things that I 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.840 thought I would never have to think about again, And 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.960 here we are talking about Spitgate in the year twenty 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:14.560 twenty five. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.480 Here we are just I'm so convinced that, like that 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.160 was a glitch in the matrix, like we're all living in. 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:25.160 Don't worry, darling, because that was the media simulacrum that broke, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.640 and like that's just every day in this universe now, 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.560 Like you can just ai that actually having happened if 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:32.120 you want to. 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.120 But like, oh man, there's so many funny parts. Harry 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.559 Styles looking ugly is hilarious. Like it's just it's it's great. 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.240 It's great that wig. It's camp This movie is I 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.920 feel like we will We just covered a movie neither 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.840 of us had seen before yesterday, The Devil's Advocate, which 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.160 I feel like has a lot of similarities plot wise 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.400 and also how campy it is because it's so deeply 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.160 sincere in what it's trying to do. This movie is 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:04.520 really trying to define feminist thriller and it doesn't, and 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.440 that's kind of why I feel a little like, oh 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:09.800 I don't hate it. 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.720 This could have been a cult classic if it were 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.120 any better or worse, Like I kept thinking about Zaradas, 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.120 you know what I mean, Like, if it weren't mostly 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.960 medium close ups, and if the mcguffins were either a 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.560 little bit weirder or a little bit better explained, we 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.080 could all like cherish, don't worried? Are they? 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.160 Yeah? Like really go for it, like we need girl 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:30.640 ed Wood? 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.680 Come on, yes, yes. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:40.240 Okay, here's the story. It is the nineteen fifties or 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.880 easy Tavy we think it is at first, and we 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.679 meet a young married couple Alice and Jack played by 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.840 Florence Pugh and Harry Styles as well as they're friends 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.280 and neighbors who are other married couples Bunny and Dean. 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.800 That's Olivia Wilde and Nick Kroll. And then there's Peter 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.560 and Peg played by comedian pals of ours Asif Ali 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:07.040 and Cap Perland. And they all live in a cul 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.160 de sac. I was calling them the cul de Sac 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.320 Crew to borrow a cougar Town reference. 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.840 Really, wow, I got to watch Cougartown. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.000 Oh yeah, I watched it. I would say against my will, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.560 but kind of like it's almost like I was put 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.920 in a simulation against my will to watch Cougar Town. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.400 So true anyway, So they live in what appears to 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:33.400 be a typical American suburb at first, but then we 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:38.640 realize it's this small isolated community called Victory in the 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.960 middle of a desert, and all of the husbands work 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.760 for something called the Victory Project, which is some company 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:51.720 or entity doing vague classified work. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.400 Which not for nothing do we ever fear what they're doing. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.360 They call it the development of progressive materials. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.880 It's like, but like, what are they Well of the 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.880 biggest problems with the movie is that it's just a 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.720 red herring. Like it literally is just a red herring. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.800 They go do normal jobs in real worlds, right, and 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.600 they set it up like what's the Victory Project? And 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.800 I guess theoretically the Victory Project is is the spoiler 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.760 of the movie, like in the real world, But ultimately 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.120 it's so dissatisfying because they don't do anything with that. 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.800 And it also felt like the development of progressive Materials 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.920 was supposed to be like a real deep commentary, like 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.080 the women are the progressive materials, but like. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:39.160 You're like, yeah, they're so Like I kept writing down 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:44.320 like Florence goes to touch the plot stone so that 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.480 the plot can continue. Yeah, it was under one one 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.760 of the many kind of that was like one of 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.160 my least. There are some red herrings that are so 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.840 funny to me, like the Gema Chan fake out. I'm like, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:56.640 what do you mean? 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:02.960 Oh, I get there, doesn't make any sense. 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:03.720 Sorry, we'll get there. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.600 I like seized. I've been wanting to talk about that 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:08.720 since the movie came out. 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:13.640 I'm ready, it's her try now sure. 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.640 To me, it felt like the work they were doing 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.520 was like nuclear weapons manufacturing coated. 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.560 I think that's like what we're supposed to think. 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.640 But again, it's just a red herring. Who knows. Yeah, 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:30.960 so that's what the men do. The women, meanwhile, live 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:36.880 very typical nineteen fifties white American housewife lives. We see 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.920 Alice cooking and cleaning with a smile and a dress 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.360 and her hair done perfectly, and she and Jack are 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:50.680 also very horny for each other and they're constantly having sex. Yeah, 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.120 but soon Alice starts noticing some weird things. 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:01.360 Iconically, the eggs aren't eggs like so many of the 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.399 like thriller imagery is just so like it cracks me 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.199 up because it's so vague, like you're just pulling on 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.919 like things you're supposed to be but don't. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.320 You get it? Her life and the eggs are hollow. 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.119 But then she cooks the eggs and she's like, the 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.440 eggs aren't eggs. Minutes later they were, in fact eggs. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:21.520 They're different eggs. 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.399 I guess, Oh, man, I love I love when the 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:25.959 eggs aren't eggs. I watched I kept rewinding it and 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:27.600 making Grant watch it with me. I was like, one 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.280 day we're gonna wake up and the eggs aren't gonna 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:30.919 be eggs anymore, and what are you gonna do? 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:32.800 And wow? Makes you think? 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:33.280 Uh. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.600 The sound design on the egg cracking scene was also 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.520 un like, you did too much here? Whoever did that? 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:40.280 But anyway, how. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.080 Old are you gonna know? That the eggs are? The 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.280 eggs are and eggs? And Florence's is acting the hell 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:47.199 out of that scene. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.919 Oh, Florence is trying so hard and all of the 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.800 dialogue is so bad, and she's holding this thing together 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:57.000 with her little oven mits. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.520 I swear she really is. I think like her performance 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.760 is genuinely good, Like she's selling me on this, Like 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.880 I'm I'm also confused, Florence, what is going on here? 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:08.879 I wish we knew? 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.440 Hmmm, So yeah, we get the We get some weird things, 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.560 such as the eggs aren't eggs. She's seeing some quick 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.560 flashes of things that she doesn't know what they are. 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.600 She's constantly humming a song that's stuck in her head, 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.680 but she doesn't know what the song is, and something 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.800 is going on with her neighbor Margaret played by Kiki Lane. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.960 Alice sees her behaving weirdly. Then everyone goes to a 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.880 party hosted by Frank played by Chris Pine and his 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.800 wife Shelley played by Jemma Chan and Frank is the 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.080 founder of the Victory Project and he's giving a speech 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.880 about how awesome it is, but Alice's neighbor, Margaret, interrupts 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.960 to be like, why are we here? What is going on? 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.640 And she's pulled out of the party and Frank brushes 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.080 it off, And then some of the women gossip about 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.480 Margaret and we learn that they used to be friends 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.760 with her until she quote unquote lost her mind and 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.080 took her young son out into the desert where he 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:22.240 apparently disappeared. Then one day, Alice is feeling restless. 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:23.919 She has less. 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.720 Pep in her step as she's doing her household chores, 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.360 So she goes out and takes a ride on the 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:36.679 local trolley and she witnesses a plane crash in the 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.920 distance by the Victory Project headquarters. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.800 Would you like to know what that means? Well, you're 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.719 never gonna find out. We don't know. Well, you're never 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:45.280 gonna get it. 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.280 But the driver won't go out there to the crash 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.400 site to help, because there's this whole thing in Victory 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:57.680 where everyone has to stay in town. Leaving isn't safe. 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.800 Right, because the the simulatres the simulation. There's also like 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.879 another one of the thriller things we were like is 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:08.520 there's occasionally like small earthquakes that are very normal for 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.360 the community. You don't really know what that was. 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:14.120 I think that was part of the like are they 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.720 testing nuclear weapons or whatever the fair Like project is. 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.960 But it's her brain like, right, it's the simulation, right. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.760 I mean, if we go back to like screenwriting one 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.960 oh one, Like we're sitting down with notebooks and it's 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.960 a college class, right, Like one of the main questions 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.080 that you have to ask in a script is why today, 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.840 Like what is the inciting event? Why is this happening 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.639 to her today? And like why is she unhappy today? 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.040 There is simply no reason. There's no reason this started happening. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:43.920 And that's one of the major problems with the movie 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.119 is that there's no like real escalation, and there's no 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:52.240 motivation for her. She's just suddenly confused and discontented and 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.119 you know, like the feminine well, I have a whole 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.840 like there's so many problems, but like she's not actually 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.920 cause you were saying Kaitlin earlier, like they normal fifties 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.679 housewife lives, but they don't like they live in a 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.960 racially integrated, very happy, very sexually fulfilling community, which is nonsense, 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.320 and she loves it and that's part of the politics 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:13.359 thing that I'm sure we'll return to. But like, she 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.120 has no problem with her life and thus the fact 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.320 that she suddenly does doesn't make any sense. Like, yeah, 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:21.600 she's realizing that she's in the Stepford Wives, but it's 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.600 not because she doesn't actually enjoy drinking martiniz and playing 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.679 tennis like which you need to have that right, Like 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:32.440 in the Stepford Wives. The main character is a photographer 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.679 and she's like, you're not letting me do my art 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:36.760 or my work and I hate it. But here she's like, 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.119 I love getting hat on my kitchen table. And also 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:40.439 I think something's wrong. 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.560 Like one of the many things with this where I 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.920 was like, why because we whatever. If you haven't watched, 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.840 don't worry darling, then do or don't whatever? When people, 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.679 our listeners don't complain about spoilers, but when people, I 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.480 was like, you clicked on it, it's not. But anyways, 0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:59.600 when it's later revealed that Florence Pugh's character is a doctor, 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.320