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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have.

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Speaker 3: Women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 3: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn bast

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Speaker 3: start changing with the Bechdelcast.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to the podcast that feels like a podcast where

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Speaker 4: we discuss movies that feel like movies.

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Speaker 5: Because they are movies and sometimes it's not that complicated. No,

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Speaker 5: my name is Caitlindante, my name is Jamie Loftus, and

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Speaker 5: we are the podcasters who feel like podcasters because we

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Speaker 5: are podcasters. Yes, this is the Bechdel Cast podcast where

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Speaker 5: we take a look at your favorite movies or just movies.

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Speaker 1: Uh, using it like using an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion.

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Speaker 1: But Caitlyn, what the hell is that? I don't remember

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Speaker 1: because I'm being trapped by an incell.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, well, it's a media metric created by our

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Speaker 4: best friend Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her comic Dikes

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Speaker 4: to Watch Out For in the eighties. It has since

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Speaker 4: become a media metric that is used to determine do

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Speaker 4: women interact in a movie? And if so, do they

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Speaker 4: talk to each other about something other than a man?

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Speaker 4: Our version is, do two characters of a marginalized gender

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Speaker 4: have names speak to each other? And is the conversation

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Speaker 4: about something other than a man? Ideally it is narratively

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Speaker 4: meaningful dialogue and not just throw away nonsense. This movie

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Speaker 4: doesn't really have a problem with the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 1: It just has a problem with a.

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Speaker 4: Lot of other stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about this movie. Yes, this

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Speaker 1: was a movie that when it came out, it's don't worry, darling,

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Speaker 1: We're not trying to withhold this information.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no big twist at the end.

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Speaker 1: End, no big twist that the director. Upon revisiting the

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Speaker 1: press cycle, the director spoilers the movie in almost every interview,

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Speaker 1: which is wild. She's like, yeah, ye, so I based

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Speaker 1: Chris Pine's character on Jordan Peterson. Like you really should

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Speaker 1: not have said that. That's like that ruins it. Anyways.

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Speaker 1: I don't even remember what I was saying, because it

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Speaker 1: just this movie is so silly. Oh oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a movie that we got a ton of requests for

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Speaker 1: when it came out, and we've been trying to for

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Speaker 1: the most part not cover movies right when they come out,

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Speaker 1: because it's hard to have any sort of objectivity, especially

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Speaker 1: when a movie was as discussed to death as this

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Speaker 1: one was. Oh yes, but it feels like it's been

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Speaker 1: enough time. And also we have an incredible guest, so

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Speaker 1: let's get them in here.

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Speaker 4: They are an author, programmer, and film critic and their

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Speaker 4: new book That Very Witch, Fear, Feminism and the American

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Speaker 4: Witch Film is something that you should get and read.

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Speaker 1: I'm halfway through it. It's terrific.

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Speaker 4: It's Peyton McCarty, Semas welcome, Hi.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk

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Speaker 2: about this real go to the theater movie.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. We come to this place for movies

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Speaker 4: that feel like movies, come to.

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Speaker 1: This place for discourse.

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Speaker 4: So first of all, tell us about your book.

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Speaker 2: Yes, please, absolutely so. Basically, this book traces the evolution

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Speaker 2: of the witch in horror films as a vector for

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Speaker 2: the state of feminism at any given point in time

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Speaker 2: in history in America specifically. So as I go through,

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Speaker 2: basically what I do is I give you a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a history and the politics of the moment,

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Speaker 2: a little bit of the history of the feminism of

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Speaker 2: the moment, the history of the cinema of the period,

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Speaker 2: and then I tile of that together through the witch

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Speaker 2: films of that particular era. And what I figured out

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Speaker 2: was that, well, you know, witches have always been a

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Speaker 2: symbol of feminism, but at peak feminist activism in America

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Speaker 2: at these moments like the sixties and the twenty tens,

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Speaker 2: whiches in the horror film are depicted as super powerful,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, intuitive in a certain sense, but

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Speaker 2: how they're depicted as powerful changes and can tell you

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Speaker 2: a lot about what's going on, and in moments of

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Speaker 2: something else very interesting occurs.

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Speaker 6: So I researched this book for a little over half

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Speaker 6: a decade and it was basically my therapy for where

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Speaker 6: we are when the election happened.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really have to change anything. I emailed my

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Speaker 2: editor and was like, I'm going to add two sentences

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Speaker 2: and then we're ready to go. So it definitely helped

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Speaker 2: me figure out how we got here. But it's also

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Speaker 2: I hope it's a fun time, you know, so gosh, so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can confirm it absolutely rocks. Thank you for writing it,

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Speaker 1: And it looks also just like I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: was like, that must have been such a fun book

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Speaker 1: to research.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was such a blast because you

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Speaker 2: get to you know, it's like the arc of American history, right,

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Speaker 2: So I got to spend a lot of time like

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Speaker 2: rocking out in the sixties and learning about acid and

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Speaker 2: the CIA, and then you know, you go to the

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Speaker 2: eighties and you're thinking about like punk subcultures and yuppies

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Speaker 2: and the nineties. You've got right, girl. It was. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was a complete blast. That rocks amazing.

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Speaker 1: Thanks, we come to this place to discuss the movie.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry, darling, So follow up question, different question. What

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Speaker 1: is your history with this movie? I know it's pretty recent,

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Speaker 1: but no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when we were talking about what films to discuss today,

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Speaker 2: I saw that was an option, and I was so

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Speaker 2: excited because this movie made me so just flamingly livid

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Speaker 2: when it came out, Like I was all there, I

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Speaker 2: was all in right, like I love I just wrote

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Speaker 2: a piece. This is gonna I promise this will make sense.

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Speaker 2: But I just wrote a piece for Remorgue this year

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Speaker 2: called wah It's all connected, about a fake genre that

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Speaker 2: I made up of, like particularly conspiratorial kind of New

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Speaker 2: agey movies typically about men right, and like, whenever I

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Speaker 2: see a woman making like a seventies inspired parallax view

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Speaker 2: type movie, I'm there. I'm like, let let us do Grolboa,

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Speaker 2: you know. But then watching it, it's so failed in

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Speaker 2: its politics, it so boggles the mind, and it has

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Speaker 2: so many script problems, like it's it's failed top to bottom.

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Speaker 2: So I was so pissed and I was excited to

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Speaker 2: just take it down. But rewatching it from twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: it really felt like more in sorrow than an anger,

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Speaker 2: Like there's so much here that speaks to the moment

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Speaker 2: that had the potential to be really salient. And I

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Speaker 2: think even some of the angles that frustrated me the

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Speaker 2: first time, I actually found like some potential poignancy in,

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Speaker 2: particularly in the wake of the Charlie Kirk things. So

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Speaker 2: I think there's so much to unpack here. I'm still pissed.

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Speaker 2: I am still pissed, but it's like it's like pissed

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Speaker 2: because I'm disappointed, you know, I'm angry and disappointed.

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Speaker 4: Fair.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it is so funny for a movie

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Speaker 1: that is like, ultimately I also am like, let women

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Speaker 1: make b movies like, but I feel like it was

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Speaker 1: hard to not have a very particular relationship with this movie.

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Speaker 1: If you were remotely plugged into pop culture at the time,

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Speaker 1: you could not escape it. And it was interesting even

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Speaker 1: just three years later because of the rate that society

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Speaker 1: is deteriorating. I guess that you're like, the criticisms I

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Speaker 1: had three years ago are some, some remain consistent, but

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Speaker 1: there's also yeah, like you're saying peyton things I feel

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Speaker 1: a little gentler on now, and then things that I'm

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Speaker 1: even madder about then when I saw it the first time.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie?

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Speaker 1: I saw it. I saw it in theaters and I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, I did not like that at all.

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Speaker 1: But but I mean I do think, like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think that the more recent example of this that

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Speaker 1: is far darker is this is a movie who, I

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Speaker 1: think for most people who are like keeping eyes on

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Speaker 1: it at the time, like has a more famous press

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Speaker 1: cycle than a plot. The press cycle for this movie

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Speaker 1: was absolutely inescapable in a way that it seems like

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Speaker 1: only helped the movie's box office a little bit. I

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Speaker 1: think the darker version of that was last year, two

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Speaker 1: years ago, with the the like Blake Lively justin Baldonia

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Speaker 1: of it all with it ends with us. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then you have pre cycles like Wicked where nothing went wrong,

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Speaker 1: but you're like, what the fuck happened? And that's just fun.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I think I was gonna see

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Speaker 1: this movie either way because I enjoyed BookSmart. It was

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Speaker 1: a fun little movie. It was nice to have a

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Speaker 1: whatever rising comedy director who is a woman, which is

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Speaker 1: something that still is pretty rare. And yeah, this movie

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Speaker 1: really just like does not come together in ways that

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Speaker 1: are infuriating sometimes and like funny. It's just like this

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Speaker 1: movie's like very naive in a lot of ways, like

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Speaker 1: if someone explained white feminism to an alien, which could

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Speaker 1: have been what happened? Who knows? Yeah, Yeah, I've basically

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Speaker 1: my definitive statement here is that the second, like there's

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Speaker 1: a one of many profiles of Olivia Wilde around the

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Speaker 1: time this movie came out was her saying explicitly the

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Speaker 1: inspiration for this movie is the feminine mystique, which makes

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Speaker 1: so much sense because the feminine mystique is a valuable,

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Speaker 1: famous text that only concerns itself with the white middle class,

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Speaker 1: which is very much what this movie is, and it

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Speaker 1: feels kind of like a semi like not really a

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Speaker 1: coherent criticism that also feels both early and late. It's weird.

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Speaker 1: This movie's a weird one. That's what my That's what

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Speaker 1: I have to say. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie?

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Speaker 1: I didn't see it in theaters. I saw it maybe

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Speaker 1: like six months after it had come and gone from

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Speaker 1: its theatrical release, and by that point I had heard

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Speaker 1: all of the all the reviews that were not favorable

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Speaker 1: of this movie and all the people just being.

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Speaker 4: Like that sucked so bad, that was trash and blah

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Speaker 4: blah blah. So I went in thinking it was going

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Speaker 4: to be like incoherent drivel, which I don't think that's

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Speaker 4: the case obviously. I think that it has a lot

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Speaker 4: of problems and it falls short in the commentary it's

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Speaker 4: trying to make. But I was expecting some like really

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Speaker 4: incompetent filmmaking, and I was like, oh, it's you know,

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Speaker 4: it's basically the plot of the Stepford Wives, but you know,

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Speaker 4: it's it's not horrendous. But I also wasn't watching it

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Speaker 4: specifically through a Bechdel cast lens that first time, and

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Speaker 4: now rewatching it which I was like, oh god, do

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Speaker 4: I have to for this episode? I noticed many many

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Speaker 4: more of the problems and I'm excited to discuss. So

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Speaker 4: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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Speaker 4: for the recap.

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Speaker 1: And we are back, shall we shall We get into

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Speaker 1: the plot and Peyton feel free to jump in whenever

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Speaker 1: if you have a pressing thought, which this movie is

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Speaker 1: so many. I have so many intrusive thoughts about this movie.

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Speaker 1: And I was like re remembering the Harry styles memes

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Speaker 1: of his acting, which isn't as bad as people said,

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Speaker 1: but it's not good.

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Speaker 4: Okay that too. Everyone was like he did gives the

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Speaker 4: worst performance ever. And I was just like, it was.

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Speaker 1: Fine, he gives he gives up performance.

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Speaker 2: Okay, he's trying his best.

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Speaker 1: It feels like he's I know. I was like, am

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Speaker 1: I coddling him?

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Speaker 2: Yes, which, like you know, girl Boss Sleigh, you can

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Speaker 2: anyone can put their younger attractive bow in the movie,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the ingenoeu of it all was really good.

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Speaker 1: I was. It was kind of funny where I was like,

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Speaker 1: okay for Olivia Wild to some extent, she's like girl

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Speaker 1: bossing Osha violations. She's like women should violate HR contracts

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Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, yeah, exactly. I also forgot about

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Speaker 1: do you guys remember the spit thing. I just was like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, having all of these like things that I

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Speaker 1: thought I would never have to think about again, And

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Speaker 1: here we are talking about Spitgate in the year twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Here we are just I'm so convinced that, like that

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Speaker 2: was a glitch in the matrix, like we're all living in.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry, darling, because that was the media simulacrum that broke,

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Speaker 2: and like that's just every day in this universe now,

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Speaker 2: Like you can just ai that actually having happened if

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Speaker 2: you want to.

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Speaker 1: But like, oh man, there's so many funny parts. Harry

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Speaker 1: Styles looking ugly is hilarious. Like it's just it's it's great.

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Speaker 1: It's great that wig. It's camp This movie is I

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Speaker 1: feel like we will We just covered a movie neither

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Speaker 1: of us had seen before yesterday, The Devil's Advocate, which

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Speaker 1: I feel like has a lot of similarities plot wise

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Speaker 1: and also how campy it is because it's so deeply

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Speaker 1: sincere in what it's trying to do. This movie is

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Speaker 1: really trying to define feminist thriller and it doesn't, and

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Speaker 1: that's kind of why I feel a little like, oh

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Speaker 1: I don't hate it.

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Speaker 2: This could have been a cult classic if it were

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Speaker 2: any better or worse, Like I kept thinking about Zaradas,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, if it weren't mostly

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Speaker 2: medium close ups, and if the mcguffins were either a

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Speaker 2: little bit weirder or a little bit better explained, we

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Speaker 2: could all like cherish, don't worried? Are they?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Like really go for it, like we need girl

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Speaker 1: ed Wood?

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Speaker 2: Come on, yes, yes.

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Speaker 4: Okay, here's the story. It is the nineteen fifties or

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Speaker 4: easy Tavy we think it is at first, and we

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Speaker 4: meet a young married couple Alice and Jack played by

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Speaker 4: Florence Pugh and Harry Styles as well as they're friends

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Speaker 4: and neighbors who are other married couples Bunny and Dean.

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Speaker 4: That's Olivia Wilde and Nick Kroll. And then there's Peter

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Speaker 4: and Peg played by comedian pals of ours Asif Ali

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Speaker 4: and Cap Perland. And they all live in a cul

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Speaker 4: de sac. I was calling them the cul de Sac

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Speaker 4: Crew to borrow a cougar Town reference.

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Speaker 1: Really, wow, I got to watch Cougartown.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I watched it. I would say against my will,

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Speaker 4: but kind of like it's almost like I was put

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Speaker 4: in a simulation against my will to watch Cougar Town.

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Speaker 4: So true anyway, So they live in what appears to

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Speaker 4: be a typical American suburb at first, but then we

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Speaker 4: realize it's this small isolated community called Victory in the

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Speaker 4: middle of a desert, and all of the husbands work

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Speaker 4: for something called the Victory Project, which is some company

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Speaker 4: or entity doing vague classified work.

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Speaker 2: Which not for nothing do we ever fear what they're doing.

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Speaker 4: They call it the development of progressive materials.

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Speaker 2: It's like, but like, what are they Well of the

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Speaker 2: biggest problems with the movie is that it's just a

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Speaker 2: red herring. Like it literally is just a red herring.

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Speaker 2: They go do normal jobs in real worlds, right, and

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Speaker 2: they set it up like what's the Victory Project? And

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Speaker 2: I guess theoretically the Victory Project is is the spoiler

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Speaker 2: of the movie, like in the real world, But ultimately

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Speaker 2: it's so dissatisfying because they don't do anything with that.

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Speaker 2: And it also felt like the development of progressive Materials

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be like a real deep commentary, like

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Speaker 2: the women are the progressive materials, but like.

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Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, they're so Like I kept writing down

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Speaker 1: like Florence goes to touch the plot stone so that

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Speaker 1: the plot can continue. Yeah, it was under one one

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Speaker 1: of the many kind of that was like one of

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Speaker 1: my least. There are some red herrings that are so

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Speaker 1: funny to me, like the Gema Chan fake out. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I get there, doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, we'll get there.

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Speaker 2: I like seized. I've been wanting to talk about that

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Speaker 2: since the movie came out.

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Speaker 1: I'm ready, it's her try now sure.

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Speaker 4: To me, it felt like the work they were doing

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Speaker 4: was like nuclear weapons manufacturing coated.

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Speaker 1: I think that's like what we're supposed to think.

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Speaker 4: But again, it's just a red herring. Who knows. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so that's what the men do. The women, meanwhile, live

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Speaker 4: very typical nineteen fifties white American housewife lives. We see

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Speaker 4: Alice cooking and cleaning with a smile and a dress

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Speaker 4: and her hair done perfectly, and she and Jack are

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Speaker 4: also very horny for each other and they're constantly having sex. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but soon Alice starts noticing some weird things.

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Speaker 1: Iconically, the eggs aren't eggs like so many of the

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Speaker 1: like thriller imagery is just so like it cracks me

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Speaker 1: up because it's so vague, like you're just pulling on

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Speaker 1: like things you're supposed to be but don't.

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Speaker 2: You get it? Her life and the eggs are hollow.

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Speaker 1: But then she cooks the eggs and she's like, the

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Speaker 1: eggs aren't eggs. Minutes later they were, in fact eggs.

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Speaker 4: They're different eggs.

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Speaker 1: I guess, Oh, man, I love I love when the

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Speaker 1: eggs aren't eggs. I watched I kept rewinding it and

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Speaker 1: making Grant watch it with me. I was like, one

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Speaker 1: day we're gonna wake up and the eggs aren't gonna

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Speaker 1: be eggs anymore, and what are you gonna do?

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Speaker 4: And wow? Makes you think?

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 4: The sound design on the egg cracking scene was also

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Speaker 4: un like, you did too much here? Whoever did that?

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Speaker 4: But anyway, how.

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Speaker 1: Old are you gonna know? That the eggs are? The

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Speaker 1: eggs are and eggs? And Florence's is acting the hell

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Speaker 1: out of that scene.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Florence is trying so hard and all of the

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Speaker 2: dialogue is so bad, and she's holding this thing together

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Speaker 2: with her little oven mits.

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Speaker 1: I swear she really is. I think like her performance

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Speaker 1: is genuinely good, Like she's selling me on this, Like

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm also confused, Florence, what is going on here?

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Speaker 1: I wish we knew?

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Speaker 4: Hmmm, So yeah, we get the We get some weird things,

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Speaker 4: such as the eggs aren't eggs. She's seeing some quick

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Speaker 4: flashes of things that she doesn't know what they are.

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Speaker 4: She's constantly humming a song that's stuck in her head,

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Speaker 4: but she doesn't know what the song is, and something

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Speaker 4: is going on with her neighbor Margaret played by Kiki Lane.

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Speaker 4: Alice sees her behaving weirdly. Then everyone goes to a

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Speaker 4: party hosted by Frank played by Chris Pine and his

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Speaker 4: wife Shelley played by Jemma Chan and Frank is the

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Speaker 4: founder of the Victory Project and he's giving a speech

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Speaker 4: about how awesome it is, but Alice's neighbor, Margaret, interrupts

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Speaker 4: to be like, why are we here? What is going on?

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Speaker 4: And she's pulled out of the party and Frank brushes

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Speaker 4: it off, And then some of the women gossip about

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Speaker 4: Margaret and we learn that they used to be friends

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Speaker 4: with her until she quote unquote lost her mind and

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Speaker 4: took her young son out into the desert where he

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Speaker 4: apparently disappeared. Then one day, Alice is feeling restless.

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Speaker 1: She has less.

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Speaker 4: Pep in her step as she's doing her household chores,

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Speaker 4: So she goes out and takes a ride on the

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Speaker 4: local trolley and she witnesses a plane crash in the

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Speaker 4: distance by the Victory Project headquarters.

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Speaker 1: Would you like to know what that means? Well, you're

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Speaker 1: never gonna find out. We don't know. Well, you're never

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Speaker 1: gonna get it.

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Speaker 4: But the driver won't go out there to the crash

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Speaker 4: site to help, because there's this whole thing in Victory

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Speaker 4: where everyone has to stay in town. Leaving isn't safe.

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Speaker 1: Right, because the the simulatres the simulation. There's also like

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Speaker 1: another one of the thriller things we were like is

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Speaker 1: there's occasionally like small earthquakes that are very normal for

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Speaker 1: the community. You don't really know what that was.

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Speaker 4: I think that was part of the like are they

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Speaker 4: testing nuclear weapons or whatever the fair Like project is.

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Speaker 1: But it's her brain like, right, it's the simulation, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if we go back to like screenwriting one

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Speaker 2: oh one, Like we're sitting down with notebooks and it's

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Speaker 2: a college class, right, Like one of the main questions

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Speaker 2: that you have to ask in a script is why today,

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Speaker 2: Like what is the inciting event? Why is this happening

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Speaker 2: to her today? And like why is she unhappy today?

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Speaker 2: There is simply no reason. There's no reason this started happening.

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Speaker 2: And that's one of the major problems with the movie

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Speaker 2: is that there's no like real escalation, and there's no

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Speaker 2: motivation for her. She's just suddenly confused and discontented and

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Speaker 2: you know, like the feminine well, I have a whole

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Speaker 2: like there's so many problems, but like she's not actually

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Speaker 2: cause you were saying Kaitlin earlier, like they normal fifties

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Speaker 2: housewife lives, but they don't like they live in a

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Speaker 2: racially integrated, very happy, very sexually fulfilling community, which is nonsense,

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Speaker 2: and she loves it and that's part of the politics

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Speaker 2: thing that I'm sure we'll return to. But like, she

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Speaker 2: has no problem with her life and thus the fact

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Speaker 2: that she suddenly does doesn't make any sense. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's realizing that she's in the Stepford Wives, but it's

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Speaker 2: not because she doesn't actually enjoy drinking martiniz and playing

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Speaker 2: tennis like which you need to have that right, Like

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Speaker 2: in the Stepford Wives. The main character is a photographer

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Speaker 2: and she's like, you're not letting me do my art

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Speaker 2: or my work and I hate it. But here she's like,

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Speaker 2: I love getting hat on my kitchen table. And also

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Speaker 2: I think something's wrong.

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Speaker 1: Like one of the many things with this where I

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Speaker 1: was like, why because we whatever. If you haven't watched,

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Speaker 1: don't worry darling, then do or don't whatever? When people,

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Speaker 1: our listeners don't complain about spoilers, but when people, I

399
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Speaker 1: was like, you clicked on it, it's not. But anyways,

400
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Speaker 1: when it's later revealed that Florence Pugh's character is a doctor,

401
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Speaker 1: You're like, why could that not become plot relevant?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: Why could there not be? Because theoretically, with Margaret, there's

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Speaker 1: a medical emergency. Why isn't there a part in the

405
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Speaker 1: back of her head that is like I know what

406
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Speaker 1: to do? But the past version of herself has absolutely

407
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: nothing in common with Like there's no like part of

408
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Speaker 1: herself rattling in the back of her head, which I

409
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: feel like could have at least given you a why

410
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Speaker 1: right of like, right, oh, I know how to help?

411
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: Like why and I don't know. There's just so many

412
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Speaker 1: things this movie could have done that, it doesn't for

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Speaker 1: sure whatever.

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Speaker 4: So there's so she's on the trolley, she sees the

415
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Speaker 4: plane crash, and she ventures out into the desert on

416
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Speaker 4: foot and ends up at HQ of the Victory Project

417
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Speaker 4: and has some weird dream vision thing at the plot

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Speaker 4: stone at the plot building, and the next thing she knows,

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Speaker 4: she wakes up at home and she asks Jack how

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Speaker 4: she got there, and he's like, I don't know anything

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00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 4: about that or about this supposed plane crash, you silly goose.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he does what Keanu Reeves also does

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Speaker 1: in The Devil's Advocate, where well it's not I think

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Speaker 1: it's like the beat after this, but he's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be extra nice to you so you don't

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Speaker 1: notice something terrible is happening, or let me get you pregnant.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that's what you want, even though she says

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Speaker 1: she just doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Right anyways, men always be trying to distract women with

430
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Speaker 4: a pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but like, please have a kid that I will

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Speaker 1: see occasionally neglect y.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So then more weird stuff happens. For example,

434
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 4: the walls of her house seem like they are closing

435
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 4: in on her for a brief moment something compels Alice

436
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 4: to put saran rap around her head and nearly suffocate herself.

437
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: I kind of dug that image as like a visual metaphor.

438
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 2: I think in a better movie, I would have been

439
00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: like that that cooks, But.

440
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 4: Right here it just kind of feels like it's coming

441
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 4: out of nowhere.

442
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: The esthetic, I mean, this movie looks good. It looks good.

443
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 4: Production design is solid. Yeah, okay, so those weird things

444
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 4: are happening. There are a couple more things with Margaret,

445
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 4: including Alice seeing Margaret take her own life, and Alice

446
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 4: tries to run and help her, but two men in

447
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 4: red jumpsuits come out of nowhere and drag Alice away.

448
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: Which every single time reminds me of Monsters Inc. I

449
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: can't see men and haz matts suits and not be

450
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: like which obviously Monsters Inc. Didn't invent that, but to me,

451
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: it did, and I'm not interested in further context.

452
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 2: Okay, they look just like the orderlies in her hospital,

453
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: which made me think about that one episode of the

454
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: Twilight Zone with the woman who thinks that she's already

455
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: dead and she ends up in the Morgan her dreams,

456
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 2: but again, because she doesn't seem to have any relation

457
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 2: to her normal life self. That image I don't think

458
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: read well.

459
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: And my least favorite, my biggest plot hole on the

460
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: first viewing, which is this like talented doctor disappeared question

461
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: mark and no one is looking for her.

462
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, does she have a family that wonders.

463
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: Where she is? She's probably five hundred hours a week

464
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: and people are like, well, I don't know, Like what

465
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: do you mean.

466
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, our top surgeon is gone, but they're the schedule,

467
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: like the shifts are fine, someone else will take it.

468
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, did Jack have to like fake her death

469
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 4: so that no one would question where she is? There's

470
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 4: a lot of world building that goes unexplored.

471
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: But like I don't know. At this point, I'm like,

472
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: I'm laughing, Yeah, sure, sure, why not?

473
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 4: Why not?

474
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: It's feminism for this movie to suck. I yes.

475
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 4: So Alice witnesses this traumatic event with Margaret, and she

476
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 4: starts asking Jack a bunch of questions about his job

477
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: and what the Victory Project is actually doing, and he

478
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 4: gets furious and also does some very textbook gaslighting. And

479
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 4: then the town physician, doctor Collins played by Timothy.

480
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: Simmons Jonah from Veep, He comes.

481
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 4: By to examine Alice, and she's like, hey, doc, what

482
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 4: the fuck is going on? What happened with Margaret? But

483
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 4: doctor Collins insists that Margaret is alive and she just

484
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 4: needs some psychiatric help, so she and her husband left Victory,

485
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 4: but Alice gets a sneak peek inside the doctor's briefcase

486
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: and sees a file on Margaret which is like mostly

487
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 4: blacked out.

488
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: That made me cackle, Like when she opens it and

489
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: it's literally all redacted, like why are you carrying that?

490
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: That's not helping you as a doctor.

491
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 4: Right, And then she burns it for some reason, like

492
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 4: wouldn't that be evidence that something is going on, that

493
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 4: they're hiding something and trying to cover things up? Why

494
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 4: wouldn't she like hang.

495
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: On to that. Don't worry, darling.

496
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 4: We don't know.

497
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't exactly.

498
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 4: If you have questions about this movie, just don't you worry, darling.

499
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: Just remember what the title is, Yes, just the movie.

500
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: The movie feels like a movie. Harry was trying to

501
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: get ahead of these criticisms.

502
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: It feels like a movie. But is it?

503
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: But is it?

504
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 4: Then there's a big Victory Project event where Frank gives

505
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 4: Jack a promotion but Alice still feels very distraught about

506
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 4: everything that's been going on, and she tries to confide

507
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 4: in Bunny, the Olivia Wilde character, who turns on her

508
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: and acts as though Alice has lost her mind. The

509
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 4: next night, there's a dinner party at Alice and Jack's

510
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 4: house to celebrate his promotion, and Frank shows up and

511
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 4: approaches Alice privately to be like, I know that you're

512
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 4: on to me and I don't even care. Keep trying

513
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 4: and good luck with that.

514
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: Another dynamic that is not paid off on in any way.

515
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: Nope, no, on this rewatch. I actually really noticed that,

516
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: in terms of the beat for beat of this movie,

517
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: there's supposed to be sexual tension between Alice and mister

518
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: chris Pine Jordan Peterson, and there simply isn't. Oh Like,

519
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: there's that earlier scene where she and Harry Styles are

520
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: having sex and he walks in and watches, and then

521
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 2: in all of the rest of the scenes, I think

522
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be like, not only is he the

523
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: moriarty to her homes with this totally out of pocket

524
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: villain monologue, but also they're supposed to be having chemistry

525
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: and chris Pine theoretically good casting choice absolutely failed. He's

526
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: so flat, it's just not working.

527
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 4: I didn't notice that at all. I didn't realize that that.

528
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: Was dude, I think when you look through it, because

529
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: then at dinner he basically implies that he and Alice

530
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: have been having sex this whole time, and Harry Styles

531
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: is like, guess we won't address that one. But I

532
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: think that would have helped the story a lot, because

533
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: if the metaphor is that this way of life is

534
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: seductive for women, which is what I think is actually

535
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: most salient to the present, Like let's talk about tradwives

536
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 2: and the appeal. Let's unpack that, right. But if that's

537
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: the idea, then the erotic tension between those two is

538
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: essential because for me, my biggest issue with this movie

539
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: is that it's having its cake and eating it too,

540
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: where this is a movie where Olivia Wilde was both like,

541
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: we're supposed to be exploring what it's like for women

542
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: who are living in a system that actually works really

543
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: well for them without actually unpacking how that system works,

544
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 2: like all of the paternalism is really benevolent, and all

545
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 2: of these women are getting so much head Like none

546
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: of these women, like she said on a podcast when

547
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: she was like, no man comes in this movie, and

548
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, you're right, yeah, like that that is

549
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: how that works. Like nineteen fifty's Integrated non racist America

550
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: where the women are having orgasms, Like the height report

551
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: was not released until the late sixties, Like the idea

552
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: that women had orgasms generally speaking, like sodomy laws were

553
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: still a thing, like this was not like.

554
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: Like you know, it wasn't socially acceptable for women to

555
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: come like I in our lifetimes, like it has it

556
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 1: Like it's just I don't know, I I agree with you,

557
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: like she I appreciate what she's trying to do. It's

558
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: kind of I mean in a different way because obviously

559
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde Shonda rhymes different people. But it reminds me

560
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: of a lot of the criticism that you often see

561
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: around Bridgerton, where it's like very nostalgic and like weirdly

562
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: celebrating a very regressive time in the visuals and like

563
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 1: all this stuff and like quote unquote corrects the past

564
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: to make it more comfortable when it's like well but

565
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: theoretically less so in Bridgerton, which is like really just

566
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: turn your brain way down, which is fine, I watch it,

567
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: but like this movie is trying to be smart and

568
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, then well we'll talk about keek Elen's

569
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: character Margaret too, because it's like, yes, I would be

570
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: so curious what because Keekulane was pubblicly like when this

571
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: movie came out, because every every actor, I think once

572
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: Florence Pugh went nuclear and showed up at wherever with

573
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: the apparol sprits. Everyone was like, oh, we're allowed to

574
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: talk shit about the movie. Great, and Kiki Lane was like,

575
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: all our scenes were cut, we had a storyline where

576
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: to go. I'd be very curious what that was. I'm

577
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: not confident that it would have been markedly better, but

578
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: like this movie's refusal to engage with race in any

579
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: way is so glaring.

580
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: Well, this her character is so racist, Like she's just

581
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: the wise black foil to Florence Pew. Like there's that

582
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: scene in the dance studio where it's literally Kiki Laane

583
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: looking sad and knowledgeable and Florence Peugh staring at her

584
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: in a way it's like this basically like reductive, like

585
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: the help levels of reductive for this character here.

586
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: Right, and like her really wild body, really like her

587
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: dead body being like really harped upon in spite of

588
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: the fact that we like we don't even have time

589
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: to become endeared this character, Like we don't know her

590
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: at all. She is being used to, Like you're saying

591
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: this very racist plot device. I would be curious what

592
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: those scenes were. I don't feel confident that they that

593
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: it would approve what we're talking about very much. But

594
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: it just like, in a movie that is trying to

595
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: say something about feminism, you cannot refuse to engage with race.

596
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: That is like been at the absolute core that and

597
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: homophobia and tresphobia have been at the core of the

598
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: problems with every feminist movement ever, like you have to

599
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: engage with it. It makes me feel nuts. That's literally

600
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: the problem with the feminine mystique. Did no one tell

601
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: her that?

602
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: Wow?

603
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: And we can get into this later too, But the

604
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 4: Margaret character was originally supposed to be played by Dakota Johnson,

605
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 4: so it was originally supposed to be a white woman,

606
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 4: and then I didn't they cast Keiki Laane instead, but

607
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 4: like didn't do anything to adjust the story to accommodate

608
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 4: that character now being a black woman. So like it's

609
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 4: a it's a mess.

610
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: But I don't know if if either of you have

611
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: seen I just saw After the Hunt over the weekend.

612
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: Oh, not yet.

613
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I didn't like it. Whatever it's but like, I feel

614
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: like it has like kind of a similar issue where

615
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: Iowa Debois is playing a college student who is allegedly

616
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: that's the whole point of the movie, assaulted by a

617
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: white professor, but it does not engage with race in

618
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: any way to the point where it's like distracting. This

619
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: movie has a similar problem for sure. All right, where

620
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: are we in the story? Oh, we're in the middle

621
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: of this dinner party. Alice confronts Frank at the dinner

622
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: table in front of everyone, being like, you're lying to us.

623
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: We don't even know what the victory project is? What

624
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: even is this place? Where does our food come from?

625
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: The eggs? Aren't eggs, Chris Pine, Why aren't the eggs eggs?

626
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 4: And he's like, no comment, And she's like, you disappear

627
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 4: people who ask any questions and he he's just like you,

628
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 4: silly little girl. And everyone does not like Alice's behavior,

629
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 4: so they all leave, and Alice, realizing that she's in danger,

630
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 4: begs Jack for them to leave. Victory for good that night,

631
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 4: and he agrees, or at least he seems to, because

632
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 4: as they're about to drive off, the men in the

633
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 4: red jumpsuits show up and abduct her, and it's clear

634
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 4: that Jack is complicit in this, and Alice is taken

635
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 4: to a medical facility, put in restraints, and given electroshock therapy,

636
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 4: which prompts a flashback of Jack and Alice. Although it's

637
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: not the nineteen fifties in Victory, California, it's modern day

638
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 4: and she's a modern woman with a job even she's

639
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: a surgeon. Jack on the other hand, is unemployed and

640
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 4: resentful of her, and he spends his time listening to

641
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 4: this like Men's rights podcast hosted by Frank and it's

642
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 4: giving Jack some ideas. We then cut back to Victory.

643
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 4: Alice returns home from the medical facility and she seems

644
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 4: to be doing much better, aka she is once again

645
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 4: blissfully ignorant of what's actually going on, and they go

646
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 4: back into the routine of Jack going to work and

647
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 4: Alice being a quote unquote perfect housewife. But then Jack

648
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 4: puts on a record and plays the same song that

649
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 4: Alice has been humming the whole movie, and that triggers

650
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 4: another flashback slash memory, where we learn that the Victory

651
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 4: Project is actually a fucked up black market computer simulation

652
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 4: where people are hooked up and put into this world

653
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 4: that we've been seeing this like idyllic nineteen fifties community,

654
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: and Jack has put Alice into this simulation against her will.

655
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 4: We cut back to the simulation and again this song

656
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 4: is triggering all of these memories of Alice in the

657
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 4: real world, and now she fully realizes what's going on,

658
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 4: and she's like, what the fuck, Jack, You took my

659
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 4: life away from me. You've trapped me here along with

660
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 4: all of these other women who are trapped.

661
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: This is the scene where I think that the very

662
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: funny Harry Styles acting meme comes from where oh, you

663
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: can't like I can't. It's not a visual medium, but

664
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: where he's sort of like the whole time, he's like,

665
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 1: the vocal performance is there, but his face is sort

666
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: of doing like the angry emoji. It's cute.

667
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because he and Florence Q can both

668
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: make that same cartoon front of you, Yes, and they're

669
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: making it at each other in the scene. It's awesome.

670
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't like it. I don't think Harry

671
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: Styles is that bad.

672
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 4: I don't think so either.

673
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 2: Yeah.

674
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: No, And then Jack becomes violent, so she strikes him

675
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 4: over the head and kills him, which means he dies

676
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 4: in the real world too, which will cause her no

677
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 4: problems in the future, No, none, whatsoever.

678
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: She'll be fine.

679
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't worry. The movie's about to just end abruptly,

680
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 1: so it's all good, right, But first, it's my turn now, right.

681
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 4: Well, then Bunny shows up and reveals that she has

682
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 4: known all along that this is a simulation, and she

683
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 4: actually chose this life because her children, who she lost

684
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: in the real world are with her in Victory. But

685
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 4: now Bunny wants to help Alice leave and to save herself.

686
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: I don't know why this switch suddenly happened, but Bunny

687
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 4: is helpful now. So Alice gets in Jack's car and

688
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 4: drives toward the head quarters, which actually is the like

689
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 4: the plot stone exit portal.

690
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: Yea, it's the plot stone. She has to touch the

691
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: plot stone, and literally, when she touches the plot stone,

692
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: the movie ends.

693
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 4: You're like so abrupt. So she's driving out to this location.

694
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 4: The men in the red jumpsuits are chasing her, Frank

695
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 4: is freaking out because if Alice escapes back to the

696
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 4: real world, theoretically she would be able to expose the

697
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 4: Victory Project. But he doesn't actually like explicitly express that

698
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 4: as a concern, and that was just like my head cannon.

699
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: But Frank's wife, Shelley stabs him for reasons.

700
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: It's her turn now, it's her turn before you have

701
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: a time fighting for her life in that scene, because

702
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 1: it's like you can sort of see in her eyes somewhere.

703
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm saying either, right.

704
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: I just can't believe that Erica Kirk did that to

705
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk.

706
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: That's what happened. It was just her. It just happened

707
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: to be her turn. Now, Like can we just talk?

708
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: Can we please? Because how does that mean? Does that

709
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: imply she's gonna take over simulation Land? Does that mean

710
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 2: that she wants a career? Does that mean we needed

711
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 2: her to say something?

712
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 4: Does that mean she finally found out that the Victory

713
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 4: Project is what it is? And she's also.

714
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,479
Speaker 1: Feels like she's very much in on it. The whole

715
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: ride you get from her is that she knows, like

716
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: she's introduced visually as if she knows everything, right, but

717
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: we actually don't ever really learn about anything about it.

718
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, which is agonizing because like the in

719
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: terms of going back to Olivia Wilde's character and the

720
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: fact that this is ostensibly about the reasons that women

721
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 2: become tridwives or participate in conservative misogyny, right, Like, each

722
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: character should have some element or thing that teaches you something.

723
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: That's how scripts work, that's what characters are for. And

724
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: so Olivia Wilde's character theoretically is like the load star

725
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: of the film because she knows and she chose this,

726
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: and it's such a cowardly cop out to be like, oh,

727
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: it's because of my tragic backstory and not because I

728
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 2: like Martiniz and hanging out with my husband, you know

729
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 2: what I mean. She's not actually fully leaning into it.

730
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: And then if you don't tell us why Erica Kirk

731
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: is like this either, then we get nothing, which is

732
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 2: why this movie is not good.

733
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, it's true. So Frank gets stabbed. Meanwhile, Alice

734
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 4: is still trying to make her way to the exit.

735
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 4: She's being chased by all of the men in the community,

736
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 4: but she finally makes it to the exit portal and

737
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 4: then off screen wakes up in the real world, and

738
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: that's the end of the movie.

739
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: So there's that little apple ad at the end though,

740
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: where she's dancing on her own it slashes of her.

741
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: She's fine, she's not sad.

742
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. I apparently stopped watching the movie immediately

743
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 4: after it like fades to black because I was like,

744
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 4: I can't handle another second of this.

745
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: There is that little don't worry. It's not anything that clarifies, No.

746
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: It's just a don't worry darling moment. Like she doesn't

747
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: have PTSD, she can walk even though she's been bedridden,

748
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 2: and there are no legal consequences for the murder of

749
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 2: her intel husband.

750
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: She's good, She's good, right, And also like, this is

751
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: a world in which Jordan Peterson just died under mysterious circumstances.

752
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 4: Too, Yeah, because we learned that if you die in

753
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 4: the simulation, you die in the real world. So Frank

754
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 4: Chris Pine's dead in the real world. Well, let's ponder

755
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 4: these questions and more after this break, and we're back,

756
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 4: and don't worry, don't worry, darling, We're back.

757
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 2: I'm honestly, I'm worrying, Darling.

758
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: I'm worrying I'm stressed, Darling, Darling, I don't feel good. Yeah,

759
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: if it's okay, let's start with because we already sort

760
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: of started talking about Kihi Laine's character. I feel like

761
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: that's a good place to start because it's also, like

762
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: we've been hinting at, is like such a central issue

763
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: with the movie of like this movie's and I think, like, again,

764
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: this gets to this movie, I feel like is pretty

765
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: clearly written in conversation with the me Too movement. It's

766
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: also why I'm thinking about it with After the Hunt,

767
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: even though After the Hunt, like I'm like, why is

768
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: it coming out now? It's been alost ten years whatever.

769
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 1: But like again, I think what we've talked about pretty

770
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: thoroughly on this show at this point is the failures

771
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: of that moment are sort of the failures of every

772
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: feminist movement, which is that it is very myopically focused

773
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: on how misogyny affects privileged CIS white women, which it does,

774
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: but like when it like I don't know, yeah, like

775
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: Olivia Wilds says that she's made this movie about complicity,

776
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: but that's not true, Like the movie has no oh

777
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: criticism of Florence Pugh's character, like she is our final girl.

778
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: From moment one, we are not really We're just fully

779
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: on her side the whole time. I feel like a

780
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: better movie would ask the questions you were saying, Peyton

781
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: of Like, I don't know, it would be interesting to

782
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: see a thriller movie interrogate, like a lot of why

783
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: these women are engaging with this world is because it's comfortable,

784
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: and even when they're seeing other people be subjugated, they

785
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: would rather ignore other people's subjugation than sacrifice their own comfort.

786
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: Like that's an interesting thing to bring up, but it

787
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: was just very dissonant, like looking back at the press

788
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: junker for this outside of all of the personal drama,

789
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: because it's like it just feels like the team keeps

790
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: saying that they made a movie that like they didn't.

791
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think part of the problem here

792
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 2: in terms of the nuts and bolts, which I think

793
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: we have to always start with with this movie, for

794
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: like why it's not working? It's like why is my

795
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: car broken? Like why am I worrying? Darling? I think

796
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 2: part of the problem I kept thinking about, did you

797
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: guys actually watch Suicide Squad when it came out way

798
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 2: back when.

799
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 4: Which one first one or the second one, yeah, the

800
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 4: first one, no, yes, I've seen it, Okay.

801
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 2: Suicide Squad is a nightmare mess for one reason above

802
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: all others, and that's the editing of the movie. The

803
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: first scene starts, the soundtrack starts, and every scene is

804
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: cut like a trailer, and the soundtrack never stops, and

805
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 2: you get no access to any characters, and the pacing

806
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 2: is brutal, and I think that don't worry Darling should

807
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: have probably been two and a half hours long to

808
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: get what they actually wanted from it, And the soundtrack

809
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: never stops, and so you never get any like actual

810
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: interiority or subjectivity from Florence Pugh because eighty percent of

811
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: the movie is a montage. So there's not even space

812
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: to criticize her character because she doesn't have a character,

813
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: because she is a beautiful piece of window dressing, cleaning

814
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: beautiful things and having a really good time except when

815
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 2: she's not. So that's really hard to make a nuanced

816
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: critique out of. And like that's not just say. You

817
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: can have a montage that's very effective and tells you

818
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 2: a lot, that's actually what they're for, but when you

819
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: do it like this, it just simply doesn't work, And

820
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 2: there's also the element of like, you know, the elephant

821
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 2: of misogyny in the room and the fact that they're

822
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 2: too scared to actually show people being misogynistic, Like yeah, right,

823
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: where there's that scene with Dita Bantes. It's the one

824
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: scene where they're like, we're gonna we're gonna do some

825
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 2: locker room talk, like we're gonna actually show women being

826
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: objectified and not just as housewives who also get to

827
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: have sex. And even then it's like so clean and

828
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 2: nice and stylistic and like objectifying of Dita Buntes that

829
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: you're still not it's still too slick to let you

830
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: be like, oh, the men are right right, it's about boobs,

831
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: like right, So so that's a big problem.

832
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.

833
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 4: There's so much dissonance in Frank being the creator of

834
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 4: the Victory project, him being like mister misogyny. He has

835
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 4: created this whole simulation that's akin to like make America

836
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 4: great again ideals like the good old days when men

837
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 4: worked in women stayed home and cooked and cleaned. But

838
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 4: it doesn't examine like MAGA ideals any like beyond that

839
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 4: at all, as far as like as far as racism,

840
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 4: as far as homophobia and transphobia, anything like that. And

841
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 4: so we just see this world in which like the

842
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 4: men are really nice to their wives and there is

843
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 4: like racial integration into this community that if this was

844
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 4: the real like nineteen fifties America, black families would have

845
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 4: been breadlined out of a community like this.

846
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: Right, I mean it doesn't even have to be the fifties.

847
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 2: Like Christian nationalists, they're trying to create that kind of community.

848
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, Yeah, It is interesting watching this movie

849
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: when with the not benefit but knowing that things can

850
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: you need to get worse. This movie did not in

851
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: fact solve society like we hoped, which is the job

852
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: of every single movie ever, and if it.

853
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 2: Doesn't, especially if it's made by women, yes then they

854
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: have to.

855
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 1: I do feel kind of bad that Olivia Wild appears

856
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: to be in director jail over this, but which I

857
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: do think, as we've talked about on the show, this

858
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,959
Speaker 1: is a very flawed movie, but happens to women way

859
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: more than otherwise. Women cannot direct b movie. It's literally

860
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: not allowed, except for Emerald Finnell for some reason. But

861
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: good for.

862
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: Her because she makes bank every time. She knows what

863
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: the girlies want and they want period sex, she puts.

864
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: Butts in seats. Yeah, this is like a very common

865
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: criticism of this movie, but feels worth mentioning just because

866
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: it echoes everything we've been talking about, which is like

867
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: the dissonance of what Olivia wild. And again, also the

868
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: writer of the movie, I always forget she did not

869
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,439
Speaker 1: write this movie, Katie Silberman, who also wrote BookSmart and

870
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: a Netflix movie called Set It Up.

871
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: Did you know it was a spec script by the

872
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: by Dick Van Dyke's kids.

873
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 4: First, okay, what, sorry, I have to take a detour

874
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 4: about this. Yes, uh so Katie Silberman wrote the screenplay,

875
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 4: but it was originally a spec script that I think

876
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 4: was circulating on the Blacklist, which was written by Carrie

877
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 4: Van Dyke and Shane Van Dyke, who are brothers and

878
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 4: who are grandsons of Dick Van Dyke and Shane Van

879
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 4: Dyke wrote and directed Titanic two stop. So oh, if

880
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 4: that's any indication of the quality of the storytelling.

881
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: Oh my, well, it's always I mean with that as

882
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: very clarifying, because you're like, of course two guys came

883
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: up with this story, it doesn't make any sense. I

884
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: love that I also learned through just going back and

885
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 1: back clicking all the blue links on Olivia Wilds Wikipedia page.

886
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: She's like I would she has like famous parents, but

887
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: it's like not direct nepo. Her parents are like famous journalists. Also,

888
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: her name is Olivia Cockburn. She changed it for maybe reasons,

889
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: you could guess, but her parents are Andrew and Leslie Cockburn,

890
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 1: who in the nineties like wrote this very famous book

891
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: about that basically that is deeply critical of Israel, and

892
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: like did a lot of original reporting about the military

893
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: relationship between the US and Israel. Going back to the Neckbob.

894
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: So I was just like, well, that's interesting about Olivia

895
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: Wild's heritage and her grandfather was like a famous socialist leader,

896
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: and you're just sort of like hm. So it made

897
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: me more sympathetic to her to be like, she's I

898
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: do think she's trying to get it, but she's maybe

899
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: just been famous for too long and she's very white.

900
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes me less sympathetic. Where she's like like

901
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: you had the tools, Yeah, you had the Master's tools

902
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 2: and the Master's house at your disposal at all times.

903
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

904
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 2: But the quote that actually I think sums up the

905
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: whole problem with the movie was she was doing a

906
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 2: Q and A and she said that it was a

907
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 2: really seductive lifestyle in the fifties end quote, though I

908
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: could kind of judge the lack of autonomy at the time,

909
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: i e. The fifties, it also said like a really

910
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: fabulous life. I mean Martini's for breakfast, Like why not?

911
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: So she just like is saying shit. Yeah. And the

912
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: thing I was going to bring up is that, like

913
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: in the press tour where she's kind of like shooting

914
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: herself on the foot quite a bit, she is talking

915
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: about how like men don't come in this movie, women come.

916
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: But then if you watch the movie, you're like, well,

917
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: there's no consent being given, so why are there these

918
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: sort of like long languishing scenes on Like isn't it

919
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: cool say Harry's styles go down on a woman? And

920
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: you're like, well, sure, in theory, I guess the song

921
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: Watermelon Sugar is in fact about her, but the plot

922
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: is that all of this is happening against the women's will,

923
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: so like, and they don't interface with that at all,

924
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: Like the movie refuses to engage with that. So yeah,

925
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: it just was very bizarre seeing this, as you know,

926
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: making it out to be this movie of sexual liberation

927
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: when the plot does not allow that. Florence Pew appeared

928
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: to kind of like push back on this framing. Also,

929
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: she just hates Olivia Wild So maybe she's being petty here,

930
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: but I think it's a useful quote, she said in

931
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: an interview. When it's reduced to your sex scenes or

932
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: to watch the most famous man in the world go

933
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: down on someone, that's not why we do it. It's not

934
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: why I'm in this industry. Obviously, the nature of hiring

935
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: the most famous pops are in the world. You're going

936
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: to have conversations like that, but I'm not going to

937
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: be discussing it because this is bigger and better than that.

938
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: So again, it does feel like not pushing back against

939
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: norms by harping on non consensual sex in your pressed horror, right,

940
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: it just doesn't quite make sense. Like women coming, sure,

941
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: but not in this movie. Well, if you women don't

942
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: come in this movie, we cannot rectly.

943
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you come in the simulation, do you come

944
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 2: in real life?

945
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: Oh it's true, if you die? Yeah, do you Harry

946
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: Stylls coming in his pants in their dirty little bed,

947
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: in their literal like insul Den Because also, she like

948
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: she's a surgeon. Why do the their apartment suck?

949
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: Anyway, That's what I noticed was rewatched the most. Actually, like, no, yeah,

950
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: I think that the thing that I found most compelling

951
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: in the wake of the Charlie Kirk, thing that made

952
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 2: me find more use potential and failed use of from

953
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 2: this movie was the whole like because you know, conservative

954
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 2: like trad cats and conservative guys who follow Charlie Kirk, Like,

955
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 2: one of the things that comes up all the time

956
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 2: is a sense of economic decline and instability. It's like

957
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 2: you know, the all on a single income memes that

958
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: circulate in those bases, right, it's the sense that the

959
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 2: economy is getting worse, the world is stratifying, and in

960
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 2: order to fix that, we need to go back to

961
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: a time and emulated time when a man could take

962
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: care of his family on a single income and provide

963
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: for his family. Because that's what masculinity is, it's being

964
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: a provider, right, And this movie, I actually thought because

965
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: the first time I saw it, I saw the stringy

966
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 2: wig and I just cackled really hard and couldn't see

967
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: past it or at all. It's really hard where he's

968
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: like make me a sandwich, like baby girl put the

969
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 2: wig in the Smithsonian Institution that the wiggest camp the Yeah,

970
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 2: the Academy Museum needs to buy that right now. But however,

971
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 2: I think the angle here that he felt that he

972
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: couldn't provide for his wife and he felt insecure in

973
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: his masculinity and literally bankrupts himself to provide this fantasy

974
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 2: in the most perverse, like serial killer way, to ostensibly

975
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: provide for his wife, like speaks to something that's going

976
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: around in the culture, you know what I mean, Like,

977
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 2: there's something kind of poignant in a perverse and tragic

978
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: way about the fact that he moves from their nice

979
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: apartment to a literal like den of an you know, iniquity.

980
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: So to do this, yeah, yeah, like rather than be

981
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: comfortable with his wife making more money than him, like

982
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: that is it is wild to me how much we

983
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: are still dealing. I mean, it's not surprising, but it's

984
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: just infuriating in the day to day sense. But just

985
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: how like again, it's like there's interesting ideas presented in

986
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 1: a very silly and weirdly and curious way, for sure.

987
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 4: I mean, it reminds me of you know, the conversation

988
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 4: we had surrounding a recent episode and movie that we

989
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 4: covered Companion, which has similar themes and vibes as far

990
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 4: as like, it's a man who he feels as though

991
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 4: his masculinity is being threatened either by like modern feminism

992
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 4: or specifically his partner, and then he like does something

993
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 4: very drastic to try to like make himself feel better.

994
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 4: And both Companion and Don't Worry Our call attention to

995
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 4: and start to examine this misogyny and male fragility, which

996
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 4: is important. But both movies focus on the plight of beautiful,

997
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 4: thin cis white women and the like individual liberation of

998
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 4: one of them. Right, Alice saves herself, but the movie

999
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 4: ends before we get any sense of whether or not

1000
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 4: she would go back and try to like liberate the

1001
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 4: other women.

1002
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the post credits scenes indicates absolutely

1003
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: it's not right.

1004
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 4: The one that I did not watch at all. Yeah,

1005
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 4: Like the movie doesn't care at all about collective liberation.

1006
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 4: It just cares about the liberation of this one woman.

1007
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: Which is like another classic like misstep of feminism is

1008
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: like a hyper focus on individuality or like your specific group,

1009
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: although Flow doesn't even care about her group. It's just

1010
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: a mess.

1011
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 4: I just had a thought and it's gone well to

1012
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 4: go back to the Margaret character who's played by Kiki Lane.

1013
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 4: I wanted to pull from a piece in Refinery twenty

1014
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 4: nine entitled Don't Worry Darling is peak white feminism as

1015
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 4: expected by writer Honia Angus says, quote victory is a

1016
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 4: simulation created by Frank to keep women locked away in captivity,

1017
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,280
Speaker 4: and the severity of that idea is never fully explored.

1018
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 4: Frank's continuous chanting about regaining control of your life and

1019
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 4: wanting men to return to a time when everything seemed

1020
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 4: right is clearly tied to white supremacy and its relation

1021
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 4: to protecting white femininity. The in cells Wild is attempting

1022
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 4: to discredit are not just hurt men who need wives

1023
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 4: or women to have sex with. They are raging racists

1024
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 4: and bigots. And then the piece goes on to say

1025
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 4: having Margaret die off to kickstart Alice's journey feels disgusting

1026
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 4: in hindsight, especially when you realize Lane has been snubbed

1027
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 4: from most of the film's press run, cut from a

1028
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 4: lot of the film itself, and barely even mentioned amongst

1029
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 4: the drama circling the movie. The film cuts back and

1030
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 4: forth from shots of her dead body in some poor

1031
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 4: sense of building up suspense and grief. But it just

1032
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 4: feels like it's taunting its viewers with how little it

1033
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 4: respects its singular black character who is pivotal to the

1034
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 4: story yet had little to no screen time unquote. Because

1035
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 4: it's true, like Margaret is like part of the catalyst

1036
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 4: that gets things going for Alice, but she ends.

1037
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: Up being basically like a glorified prop as far as

1038
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: the movie is concerned.

1039
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 4: For sure, we know nothing about her. Most of the

1040
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 4: time we see her, it's either like from another character's

1041
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 4: point of view, like she's off in the distance, or

1042
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 4: it's like the white women in the community gossiping about her.

1043
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 4: It's just like a really bleak characterization of the only

1044
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 4: black woman in the movie who gets any sort of dialogue,

1045
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 4: which is like two lines maybe like next to nothing.

1046
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's something's not right and that's it.

1047
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, But they're both doing that and like refusing to

1048
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: acknowledge that the women in this story are racist, Like

1049
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: it totally skirts that criticism entirely, Like it's done. It

1050
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: just is like, Okay, so the movie is racist because

1051
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: it is doing this racist thing and its characters are

1052
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: not even reacting and especially Margaret. Yeah, it's just unbelievably frustrating.

1053
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: The knowing that it was supposed to be to Cota

1054
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: Johnson is really instructive, I think, because it just seems

1055
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: like they were gonna just cast white people and let

1056
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: that be part of the thing. It's like, it's very

1057
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: clear to me that this was written to be about

1058
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 2: all white people, right, because it's the fifties. I mean,

1059
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 2: the fact that they didn't have the fantasy, the inceel

1060
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 2: fantasy of the fact that all of these women don't

1061
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 2: have maids, sure, even though they're existing in this very

1062
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 2: upper middle class context, feels like they just didn't want

1063
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: to touch it because that would have been hard and uncomfortable. Right,

1064
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 2: but see these women, like, if we actually want to,

1065
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: let's let's talk about the feminine mystique, right, like the

1066
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: fun lifestyle they're describing. I'm trying to find a quote.

1067
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 2: I read a piece about this at the time. But

1068
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 2: the idea that, like, our lives are empty, all we

1069
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: have time to do every day. Yes, here's a quote

1070
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: from the feminine mystiq. My days are all busy and dull.

1071
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 2: I get up at eight, I make breakfast, so I

1072
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: do the dishes, have lunch, do some more dishes, and

1073
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: do some laundry and cleaning in the afternoon. Than it's

1074
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 2: supper dishes. The children have to be sent to bed.

1075
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: That's all there is to my day. It's just like

1076
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 2: any other wife's day, right, But like they have time

1077
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 2: to do that and have parties and go swimming, you know,

1078
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: like they just spend time.

1079
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: At the pool, and it's it's racist rights. It's literally

1080
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: a racing people. I like, going off of your point,

1081
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: Peyton Aram also sort of feels reminiscent of, oh my gosh,

1082
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: what was that.

1083
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 4: Sophia Coppola movie The Beguiled?

1084
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: The Beguiled where she is remaking a movie that does

1085
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: have a black character that was racist at the time,

1086
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: and she's remaking this movie and she doesn't know what

1087
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: to do with a black character, so she just removes them.

1088
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: And you're just like, that is like the worst possible

1089
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: thing you could do is to just refuse to engage

1090
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: and literally erase people, which feels like a similar thing

1091
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: to do because she's not whatever the writers who I

1092
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: don't even know who I'm yelling at. Sometimes, am I

1093
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: yelling at Olivia Wild? Am I yelling at Katie Silverman.

1094
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: Am I yelling at the Van Dykes?

1095
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 4: Shane Van Dyke?

1096
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: I have no idea if I'm yelling at she Maybe

1097
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: Titanic two, maybe I'm yelling at Shane Van Dyke. But like,

1098
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: the movie is not comfortable committing to having characters like

1099
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: Bunny be villains and having Jemma Chan's character be a villain,

1100
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: because there's just these random girl Boss solidarity moments added

1101
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: in in the end that I think, like gelled with

1102
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: what a good feminist does, but these people are not

1103
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: good feminists, So like what it's so bizarre also feels

1104
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: worth mentioning, even though this is more behind the scenes drama.

1105
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: I also totally forgot about this. The Harry Styles character

1106
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: was originally played by Shila Buff.

1107
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: Oh.

1108
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,919
Speaker 1: Yes, and first I had to talk about Shila Buff

1109
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: a lot on this show. But Shila Buff was publicly

1110
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: credibly accused of abuse by FKA Twigs at the beginning

1111
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one when this movie was in production.

1112
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 4: Right, I believe we talk more about this in the

1113
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 4: episode on Holes, But yeah, Shila Buff left. Don't worry Darling.

1114
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 4: Seems like August of twenty twenty there are conflicting accounts

1115
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 4: of what happened. Olivia Wilde says that she fired him

1116
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 4: because he brought a combative energy to the set, that

1117
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 4: his work style clashed with the cast and crew. She

1118
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 4: was trying to cultivate a safe space for everyone and

1119
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 4: felt like he was putting that in Jeopardy. Shila buff

1120
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 4: denies that he was fired, saying that he quit because

1121
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 4: he and the other actors were not given adequate time

1122
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 4: to rehearse, and that Olivia Wilde wanted him to come

1123
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 4: back to the project but he refused.

1124
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: We weren't there.

1125
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 4: We don't know exactly what happened. What I do know

1126
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 4: is that I'm glad I didn't have to watch him

1127
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 4: in this movie, and I would rather watch Harry Styles

1128
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 4: any day.

1129
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 2: I'm also thinking I was thinking about another movie in

1130
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 2: the Me Too Women Trying to Talk about Me to

1131
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: School Blink Twice, which actually does have, you know, another

1132
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: messy movie. But like I do think women should be

1133
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 2: allowed to make these movies about this subject until someone

1134
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 2: gets it right. But you know, with the Harry Styles

1135
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: connection of Zoe Kravitz being trail behind the helm of

1136
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 2: that one, that movie has a better, more nuanced depiction

1137
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 2: of like women who are complicit in the Geena Davis character, Yeah,

1138
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: they do kind of un do that because women don't

1139
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 2: seem capable of accepting that sometimes other women are villains.

1140
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 2: And that movie, I think is just it's my turn now,

1141
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: like the crazy girl Boss ending of Blink Twice where

1142
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, in feminist America, like Enslave you like.

1143
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Bezos now and you're like, yeah, I still watch,

1144
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: and then it's like brought to you by Amazon Movies.

1145
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's that and Poor Things has the

1146
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 2: same kind of ending.

1147
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it can be cathartic.

1148
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 2: It can totally be cathartic to flip the script and

1149
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 2: be like, and now the women are, you know, using

1150
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 2: men's buddies for their own amusement. But in movies that

1151
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 2: are ostensibly about feminist politics, like that doesn't fly so much.

1152
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: Right right, It's just like, I don't know, it's it's

1153
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: it was fun at first. I will say, like I'm

1154
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: not above a good for her ending. Yeah, if if

1155
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: it feels earned. I don't know, if it feels earned,

1156
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 1: why not. But this movie is just like it just

1157
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 1: doesn't feel earned.

1158
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 4: No, it does not. Does anyone have anything else they'd

1159
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 4: like to discuss?

1160
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I was just worried, darling.

1161
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 4: So I was, we were we were feeling darling.

1162
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 2: I think my final thought on it is that we

1163
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 2: the fact that Olivia Wilde is trying to be sympathetic

1164
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 2: to what you can kind of reductively describe as the

1165
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 2: media and Trump voter, the conservative person who's feeling economic

1166
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 2: and cultural anxieties about their insecure position in a world

1167
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 2: that is objectively getting worse on every level, particularly in

1168
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 2: a class conscious way, I think is commendable. I think

1169
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 2: presenting like trying to give some sympathy, you know, however

1170
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: perverse that may sound to the what's now being referred

1171
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: to as the male loneliness epidemic of it all. With

1172
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 2: Harry Styles's character is interesting and I found that way

1173
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: more engaging on this round in this current political coal

1174
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 2: I meant that she does so at the complete loss

1175
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 2: of nuance or coherence, and I think that we should, really,

1176
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 2: we should all be worrying Darling, and we should all

1177
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 2: be trying to make a better version of this movie

1178
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 2: that includes people, and lets people be complicated and lets

1179
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 2: Florence Pew want to have her martinis at noon, and

1180
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: lets Harry styles be misogynistic, like textually as well as structurally,

1181
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 2: you know, right, And we can do it. We can

1182
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 2: do we can do better. We should make hard art,

1183
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 2: we should make complicated art, we should make icky art.

1184
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 2: And women should do all of that. And I'm waiting

1185
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 2: and worrying, darling.

1186
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: And if you and and and if you fail, you

1187
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: should it should not do me your entire career.

1188
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, does it count as a character being complicated? If

1189
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 4: Olivia Wilde's character Bunny when she reveals that she is

1190
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 4: voluntarily in victory because in this universe she still has

1191
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 4: her kids. But the entire movie we see her not

1192
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 4: interacting with her children at all. We see her yelling

1193
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 4: at them, not being affectionate with them. Instead, she's day

1194
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 4: drinking all the time and completely neglecting her children.

1195
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, with no babysitters.

1196
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 4: Is that complex? Is that a complex character?

1197
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 1: It sort of makes you wonder what happened to her

1198
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: kids and was it a result of her?

1199
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 4: Was her fault?

1200
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: They're not real kids. I can say that. I yeah, no,

1201
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: And again it's like that is another little chicken nugget

1202
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: of like, oh, what an interesting potential thing to explore.

1203
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: That's just like at the very end of the movie,

1204
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's just it's a mess. But

1205
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: I agree with you, Peyton, I think that this movie

1206
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 1: should someone's gonna get it, Someone's gonna figure it out

1207
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 1: one of these days. And it feels like, I don't know,

1208
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: definitely a moment. It is weird that this movie has

1209
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: both become more and less timely into three years since

1210
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: it came out.

1211
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 4: Right As far as the Bechdel test, it does pass.

1212
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 4: There are many scenes in which women are talking to

1213
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 4: each other about other women because they're gossiping, or they're

1214
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 4: or at least one of them is questioning what's really

1215
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 4: going on with the Victory Project and da da da.

1216
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 4: So you know, the movie passes the Bechdel test, but

1217
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 4: we always what costs exactly exactly. But to move on

1218
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 4: to the perfect metric by which we examine movies, the

1219
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 4: Bechdel cast nipple scale, in which we write a movie

1220
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 4: on a scale of zero to five nipples, examining it

1221
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:54,439
Speaker 4: through an intersectional feminist lens. I think I'm gonna go

1222
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 4: to nipples. It is attempting to start to say something.

1223
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 4: The movie does have an agenda. It just feels like

1224
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 4: something that maybe would have come out in like twenty

1225
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 4: twelve instead of twenty twenty two. It just it feels

1226
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:17,839
Speaker 4: quite behind in its intersectionality and its ability to really

1227
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 4: thoughtfully examine.

1228
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: See I kind of disagree. I feel like this is

1229
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: very twenty twenty two and it's well in its white feminism.

1230
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 4: Well especially in Hollywood certainly, where you know, this is

1231
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 4: a mainstream studio movie made by privileged, rich white people.

1232
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 4: So yeah, this is not going to be the radical leftist,

1233
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 4: intersectional takedown of patriarchy and white supremacy that we'd love

1234
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 4: to see because Hollywood isn't really in the business of

1235
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 4: doing that, at least not at this time.

1236
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 2: So I guess what you're saying is that it feels

1237
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 2: like a real Hollywood movie, like a film movie. It's

1238
01:08:59,240 --> 01:08:59,799
Speaker 2: like a movie.

1239
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: Wait what hold on? There is a bit someone says

1240
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:04,560
Speaker 1: something like this once.

1241
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 4: Is it is it that it's it's a it's a

1242
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 4: movie that feels like a movie.

1243
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: Very underrated. Element of that clip is Chris Pine just

1244
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 1: shark eyed dead eyes in the background. He was so

1245
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: checked out on this press tour.

1246
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: It's funny though, because that quote actually has become a

1247
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 2: staple since this movie came out of when I'm watching

1248
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 2: movies with my husband, Like, we will be watching a

1249
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 2: movie and he'll be going, it feels like a movie.

1250
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 2: And he actually did this forgetting that it came from

1251
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 2: this movie. When we started watching this movie. For this episode,

1252
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 2: he was like, it looks like a look, so it

1253
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 2: all circles back around.

1254
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 1: Wow, beautiful look. I was not I was not a directioner,

1255
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: but the Harry styles appeal, I get it. I get

1256
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: it because he's just saying shit. He's saying shit, He's

1257
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: minding his own business. He just ran a he's like

1258
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: an incog mode right now except for fucking Zoe Kravitz,

1259
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: which he wants everybody to know. And sure, but he

1260
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: is like living incognito mode right now. And ran a

1261
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 1: marathon under a fake name. Whoa Caitlin. Did we talk

1262
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 1: about this? I we didn't. Just a fun not passing

1263
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: the Bectels test thing. Yeah, he just like ran the

1264
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: Berlin marathon under the name stead Surrandos.

1265
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 4: Okay, good for him, and he.

1266
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: Got a great time. So you know, he's he's just chilling.

1267
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: He's doing what more absurdly rich people do, which is

1268
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: just being quiet and yes, so you're going to, oh, yes,

1269
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,760
Speaker 1: two nipples for all the reasons we've previously discussed on

1270
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: this episode, and you know that I'm gonna give my

1271
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: nipples to Shane Van Dyke, writer and director of Titanic two,

1272
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: my favorite movie of all time.

1273
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 4: We got it covered JKJK. But yeah, we really, oh

1274
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 4: we you know, we haven't done a Titanic episode this year, and.

1275
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 1: It's it's not too late, but it's not too late, Okay, Okay,

1276
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:07,839
Speaker 1: something to consider.

1277
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, two nipples to Shane Van Dyke to two nipples

1278
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,839
Speaker 4: to Titanic two, sure is more accurate.

1279
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,599
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go one and a half, which is maybe

1280
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,640
Speaker 1: a little like, I agree this movie is trying to

1281
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 1: do stuff. I feel like, I don't know, I feel

1282
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 1: like I've been very inconsistent in this episode of like,

1283
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: it's just it's a hard one because I feel like,

1284
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 1: in general, we are culturally still very hard on feminist

1285
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: art that does not completely like work. And I know

1286
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 1: I've been guilty of being overly critical of a movie

1287
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: that feels like a movie. But because this movie was

1288
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: really aggressively marketing itself as something that had something to

1289
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: say about feminism and having it sort of be this

1290
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 1: kind of cowardly white feminist. It's basically, you know, there's

1291
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 1: no egg inside the egg. When I see that's the

1292
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: central image of the movie. I was promised an egg

1293
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 1: and I was given a shell. And so I don't

1294
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: really know, Like maybe that's a little too hard on

1295
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: a movie that does seem to be doing its best,

1296
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: but its best isn't great. But I agree with I'm

1297
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: going to be thinking about it, like we should keep trying,

1298
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: we should keep trying to make this movie, and we

1299
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: should give someone who is not already a wealthy white

1300
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: woman a crack at it. Perhaps, So with that, I'm

1301
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 1: going to give it one and a half nipples, And

1302
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to give half a nipple to the egg

1303
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: that wasn't an egg, and I'm going to give my

1304
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:37,679
Speaker 1: other nipple to the plot.

1305
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 4: Rock nice Peyton, how about you.

1306
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 2: I think one and a half is right because this

1307
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 2: movie raised my blood pressure in such a specific way

1308
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 2: watching it fail. I think it's so compelling, and so

1309
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 2: in a certain sense, I give it like three nipples

1310
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 2: for like incurring my feminist rage and making me more

1311
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 2: cont just as a feminist in that moment, but I'm

1312
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 2: gonna give a whole nipple to it's my turn now,

1313
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 2: and then half a nipple to the wig.

1314
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 4: The hairstyle stream wig.

1315
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: You really have to love the wig. They thought they

1316
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:17,719
Speaker 1: were doing something with the wig.

1317
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say the one thing we haven't mentioned,

1318
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 2: you're because you're so worried about the egg. As metaphor,

1319
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 2: I was thinking, like the title don't worry Darling comes

1320
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 2: from an ad from the nineteen fifties where there's a

1321
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 2: woman in front of a stove and everything's burning behind

1322
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 2: her and she has a handkerchief and she's crying on

1323
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 2: her husband's shoulder and her husband says, don't worry, darling,

1324
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 2: you didn't burn the beer, And like, that's how I

1325
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 2: feel about Olivia Wilds making this movie, being like I

1326
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 2: love Martini's like, well, don't worry, darling, you didn't burn

1327
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 2: the beer. You know.

1328
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 1: Wow, It's just you know, we'll get them. We'll get

1329
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: them next time, question mark, we'll get them next time.

1330
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 1: We worried Darling and Peyton, thank you so much for

1331
01:13:58,080 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: worrying with us.

1332
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my gosh, thank you for having me.

1333
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: Of course, come back anytime. I would love to talk

1334
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 1: which movies with you? Hell yeah, where can we find

1335
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: your work?

1336
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 2: You can find me on Instagram at pay place p

1337
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,759
Speaker 2: a y T place. You can pick up my book

1338
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 2: or the previous one, which is about national treasure and

1339
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 2: conspiracy theory. Uh wherever books are sold. And the national treasure,

1340
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 2: the national treasure.

1341
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to steal it.

1342
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 4: I'm going to steal the Declaration of Independence national treasure.

1343
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 2: Oh why yes, okay, there's so much. It started as

1344
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,520
Speaker 2: a joke and then it turns out the conspiracy theorists.

1345
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 7: Love national treasure and you would not believe the things

1346
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:43,759
Speaker 7: I found. God really, okay, I will be purchasing, but yeah, amazing,

1347
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 7: I'm around.

1348
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: Thank you so thank you so much for joining us.

1349
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: And you can find us all the regular places, mostly Instagram,

1350
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: and you can follow our or join our Matreon, which

1351
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 1: is our patreon where for five dollars a month you

1352
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:01,600
Speaker 1: can get two bonus episodes on a topic, on a

1353
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:03,839
Speaker 1: very obscure topic of our choosing over yours.

1354
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 4: Don't worry, it's not a simulation.

1355
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 2: It's wink.

1356
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 1: This is now. Caitlin does actually have me strapped in

1357
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: a room somewhere. The reason that we have to like

1358
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 1: have heart outs during our recording is so Kaitlyn can

1359
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: dribble something in my eyeball, so so I don't turn

1360
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:24,840
Speaker 1: into a husk. Oh God, imagine if if I was

1361
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: a podcaster in the simulation, I would be so pissed off.

1362
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:29,600
Speaker 1: Like if I'm in the simulation, I'd better have a

1363
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: martini and just be day drinking all the time. Truly,

1364
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 1: But yes, you can find us there. Five dollars a

1365
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 1: month gets you access to two new episodes a month

1366
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 1: and access two hundreds of back episodes.

1367
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 4: Indeed, and with that we can finally stop worrying darling, Oh,

1368
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:49,520
Speaker 4: thank God, and have a martini.

1369
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 2: Bye bye.

1370
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and

1371
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: produced by Me, Jamie Loftus and.

1372
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 4: Me Caitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie

1373
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 4: Lichtermann and.

1374
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,600
Speaker 1: Edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever Heard of Them? That's Me?

1375
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 4: And our logo and merch and all of our artwork

1376
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 4: in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever heard of Her?

1377
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 1: Oh my God? And our theme song, by the way,

1378
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: was composed by Mike Kaplan.

1379
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 4: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.

1380
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 1: Iconic and especial thanks to the one and only Aristotle Ascevedo.

1381
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 4: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree, slash

1382
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 4: Spectelcast