WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 141 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.600 Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.640 to let you know this is a compilation episode. So 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.319 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.360 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.560 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.040 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:22.880 there's going to be nothing new here for you, But 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:24.599 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:32.800 Hi, Scheren, Hi James, I was alarming. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.159 Yeah, I went in to like twenty tens YouTube boys. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:42.040 Well, yeah, Hi, James is excited today I am excited. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.440 I'm always excited to make a podcast, you know, I 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:48.200 love to cast a pod, but today I am especially 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.800 especially with an X like Expresso the coffee drink. I 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.960 am especially excited to talk to you, Cherene, because we 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.720 are talking about a subject which I have wasted far 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.640 too much of my life reading and writing about. What 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.440 are we talking about, Sharen? Sports? Sports? 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:07.479 Right? 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.200 Yeah, sports. I'm going to explain to Sharen sports why 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.240 they're fun or I did too many of them? Okay, 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.720 we're talking about the Olympics, the Olympic Games specifically. I 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:19.640 guess they're happening in Paris this year. They may be 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.920 happening in Paris by the time you listen to this. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:23.920 But I want to talk a little bit about the 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.240 history of Olympics because I wrote a book about it, 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:28.560 and so I get to drawing on about it for 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:29.920 half an hour and you have to listen to me 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.440 while you drive your cars to work. Cool. The mon 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.840 Olympic Games is it draws links to ancient Greece, right, 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.440 And it does that because at the time that the 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.400 modern Olympic Games in the late nineteenth century were being 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.720 created by a guy called Baron Pierre de Kubitain, the 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.960 aristocracy of Europe were obsessed with drawing links to the 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:51.760 classical period. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:51.960 Right. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.480 This is the same time when we see all those 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:58.000 like neoclassical buildings going up, and people were trying to 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.720 draw links between themselves and the ancient Greeks and to 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:06.240 sort of posit themselves as the new Greco Roman font 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:07.120 of civilization. 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.480 And hey, I took our history, and I minor to that, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.000 so I know stuff too. 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:17.200 Okay, yeah, because I did not take our history. Okay, 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.160 I'm sure you know more kinds of stuff about like 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.919 impressionists and Shure I understand. So if we're looking at like, 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.680 to understand the Olympics, we have to understand sport, right, 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.680 and to understand sport, we have to understand play. So 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.480 I was right about sports. You don't have to Yeah, no, no, 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.120 you agree, you're right on it. Yeah, but first we 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.000 do play, right. So if we're looking at like kind 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:40.639 of the classic text on this, it's it's a book 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.079 called Homo Ludens, but we probably don't need to read that. 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:48.280 It's not a banger. We very few academic books are bangers. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.079 I like to think mine's in a sort of semi 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.680 banging category. But yeah, it's also overpriced and you shouldn't 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:55.440 buy it. Just go to your library and get it 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.880 for free. Play is it's pretty obvious what play is. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.760 It's the difference between play and sport is that sport 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.320 is bounded. It happens in a certain place, within a 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.080 certain set of rules. Play doesn't. So the archetypal kind 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.360 of example of transitioning from play to sport would be 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.160 folk football in Britain. So back in the day, in 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.480 the place where I come from, for holidays, the Saints' 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.160 Days and other days when people didn't work, they would 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.480 have a game of football which consisted of a ball 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.760 inflated pigs bladder or a similar similar device, and you 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.200 have to get it from one village into the other village. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:34.800 And those are about all the rules, right. Sometimes they 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.640 had specific rules against stabbing. There have been like an 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.360 outbreak of stabbing incidents, but other than that, it was 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.080 pretty much you do what the fuck you wanted, right. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:45.720 You want to go on a five mile detour and 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.120 come around people come in the back way, no problem. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.800 You're on a form of phalanx of all your mates 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.160 and just kind of go through like a wedge style. 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.440 Not a problem at all. You know, you want to 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.640 start hitting people with sticks, yeah, not an issue. It 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.240 was very loose, right, and every village or pair of 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.720 villages that will play had their own kind of understanding 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:06.600 of the rules, but it wasn't a codified set of 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.240 rules in existed across all incidences of folk football. And 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.760 we go from there to association football. Right, That's where 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:21.039 soccer comes from, right, ass soccer soccer association becomes assoc 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:27.320 assoc becomes a soccer that becomes soccer. Does that make sense, kin, Yeah, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.720 I'm going to say yes. It's a very like nineteenth 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.440 century posh British effect that takes the word association football 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.400 and comes out with soccer. That's so funny. Yeah, that's 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:42.600 where it comes from. So association football codifires the rules. Right, 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:44.640 there's a pitch that pitches the same size as a goal. 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.200 The goal is the same size. You can't pick it 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:50.600 up now, And from that comes rugby football, right, So 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.680 rugby football is type where you pick up the ball. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.320 There's a kind of founding myth for rugby football that 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.080 this guy called William ware bellis with a glorious disregard 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.000 for the rules. Quote, picked up the ball and ran 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.479 with it. It's a bit weird that, like they've created 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.080 a founding this for due to effectively just like sucked 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:09.920 at football. So he picked it up and ran with it. 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.760 Like it doesn't seem like he deserves a literal statue 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:18.279 that he has. Yeah, and that happened at Rugby School, right, 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.560 which was one of these English boarding schools that existed 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.159 to prepare young men to be officers and administrators in 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:29.600 the British Empire. And that is really what's the codification 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.719 of sport as far as we can sort of create 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:37.479 like a reason for it is to prepare young men 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.640 and just men to be administrators in the British Empire. Right, 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.400 it's supposed to make them physically strong. It's supposed to 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.200 make them obey the rules and learn to do what 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.600 they're told, even in stressful situations. Right, it's part of 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.680 an idea called muscular Christianity. And like, as far as 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.719 we can attribute this whole combination of things to one person, 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.000 it would be Thomas Arnold. Right, Thomas Arnold being the 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.880 headmaster at Rugby School, he develops his idea of educating 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.080 young Christian men and doing so using sport as well 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.960 as academia and sports very quickly develop a set of 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.880 rules around amateurism. Amateurism like sometimes we just use amateur 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.640 now to me not very good, but at the time 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.840 its specifically meant not paid to do the sport. And 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:24.240 so yeah, this is the early Olympics. Actually, the Olympics 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.159 still relatively recently have an amateurism rule, right that people 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:31.279 can't participate if they are paid to do the sport. 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.560 They have exemptions for fencing coaches, which I think tells 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:37.680 you about everything you need to know that this isn't 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.039 this isn't there for any purity reason. It's there to 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.680 serve as a class barrier, right, And we see it 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.000 used as a class barrier first of all in football, right, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.599 Like that's why we have rugby league at rugby union 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.479 because the rugby league people tended to be working people 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.240 and they needed to be paid. It's the rugby league 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.120 allowed for professionalism. Rugby union did not, and those tended 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.640 to be wealthier people, right. But it's used at the 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:06.719 Olympics extensively to police class. Like probably the most prominent 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.520 example would be Jim Thorpe. You're familiar with Jim Thorpe. 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.080 Jim Thorpe's the cool guy. Actually, I got to read 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.200 some of his correspondents. He actually wrote a history of 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.400 the Olympic Games, which is very sad when you consider 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:19.840 that Jim Thorpe himself he's a member of the sac 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.280 and Fox Nation, right, so he's indigenous to North America. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.640 He won a medal for the United States in the 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.640 nineteen twelve Semmer Olympics who went to Gold Males actually 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.600 won in pentathlon and won decathlon. So like decathletes are 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.760 kind of like the uber athletes, right, Like you're doing 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:38.880 ten ten different sports that you have to just be 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.360 good at exercising, and Jim Thorpe was good at exercising. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.280 He also played collegiate and professional football, professional baseball, and 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.360 professional basketball. See he's an all around sport to dad. Unfortunately, 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.760 he lost his Olympic title because he had been paid 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.520 at some point for playing baseball, even though he didn't 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:01.320 do baseball in the Olympics. That's all fucked. Yeh. It's 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.240 very clearly used as a way to class and race 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.560 police the games, right, And I think this gets to 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.000 our point about what the Olympics are. So the early 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.200 Olympics tend to coincide with what are called World's Fairs. 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.040 Familiar with worlds Fairs shreen Yeah, yeah, yeah. People sort 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:22.840 of get together and they have these big exhibitions and 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.960 they show off there you know if you really got 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:29.240 yeah us whatever, Yeah, look what I stole from this 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.000 country that I have colonized and under force extracted these 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.560 the following things. If you're in Britain, like the most 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.120 famous sort of Worlds Fair site would be Crystal Palace, right, 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.200 Crystal Palace was built, burned down, but it was built 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.600 for the Worlds Fair. If you're in San Diego, Balboa Park, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.240 right was built fourteen. Yeah, yeah, I feel like I 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.240 knew that somewhere in my head. Yeah, when you go 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.400 to Balboa Park, little niche San Diego diversion for the 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.240 millions of you are not in San Diego, you can 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.560 just tune out for ten seconds. Those are little cottages 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.640 like the Internet national Cottages and Palestine House and yeah, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.680 Palestine House. Cool that they got recognition in San Diego. 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.280 At least those are from the World's Fair. Each country 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.640 would have that little exhibition in their house right and 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.199 all down the Prado. So yeah, that's actually has zoo 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.839 started as well. Someone in their exhibition had lions and 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.040 then fucking left them when they left, and they were like, uh, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.680 I guess we better start a zoo. Got a couple 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:29.000 of lions on our hands. Yeah, incredible, incredible vibes. So 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.600 the Olympics happen at the same time as Worlds for 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.199 its a long time, and that is because the Olympics 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:38.760 are essentially a gathering of transnational borche worse he That's 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.880 not a phrase I came up with myself. It's from 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.400 my friend David Goldblat, who's written a really excellent history 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.280 of Olympics. That's called the Games. And if you're going 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:47.920 to read one book about the Olympics, that it should 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.439 be David's book. He's a lovely guy. I'm sure he's 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.400 not listening, hello, David. If you are, I would recommend 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.480 his book because I think his analysis is great, right, 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.439 that what these become is a place where the sort 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.720 of the that people who make money from finance capital 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:04.760 all around the world can gather together and share their 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.880 little ideas and play their little games. And we see that, 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.040 for instance, in the nineteen oh four Saint Lewis Olympics. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.079 Saint Louis. In addition to like the World's Fair, they 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.880 have the Olympics and they have something called the Anthropological Days. 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.560 Have you heard about this, Sharne oh Willieve, I have no. 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:22.480 It's one of the more fuck things happen in Saint Louis, 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.599 which I think is saying a lot. They essentially kidnapped 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.840 people from around their various imperial possessions, brought them to 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.480 Saint Louis, which in itself is a crime, and then 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.640 forced them to compete in events that they didn't fully 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:41.880 explain to them. What the fuck yeah, and then concluded 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.280 from this that like white people were better. 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.920 It's like some gladiator shit that's like, yeah, yes, what 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.160 are you doing? That's too modern, that's too hard to happen. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.880 This is nineteen oh four, yeah, not so long ago. Yeah, 0:10:56.000 --> 0:11:00.360 very yeah, And this kind of exhibits what the world's 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.640 fairs we're into and to agree to a degree like 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.520 what the Olympiad became, which was like a way for 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:11.240 the colonizing powers to get together. Right, right, do you 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.400 know what will not kidnap you from your home country 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.080 and fly you to Saint Louis and then force you 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:21.080 to compete in games that you don't understand? Gold? Yeah, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.920 you're probably right. Well, indirectly it will, you know, because 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.079 as a sort of source of wealth. 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.520 Yeah, right, okay, whatever, I was trying to make a 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.800 trying to think of something that I might hear next. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:33.840 Yeah, it's it's probably gold. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:46.520 You're right, we're back, and we hope you have bought 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.840 your gold, the only the only metal that you can 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.440 make an Olympic medal out of. 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.319 Incidentally, really, and we'll go over to gold. Oh really, 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.679 deturned green. I get like you're like, it's it's not 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:00.480 good for my skin. 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.000 Well, I'll get like infections, but like I'll get like 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:06.240 an exemer kind of reaction. 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.960 Oh well, what do you? Uh? Did you have an 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:10.200 alternative jewelry? 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.880 I don't wear a lot of jewelry. I wear rings 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.920 the most, but I can't wear ear rings anymore. They're 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.640 too My ears are too sensitive. I usually like stick 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.680 with silver if I have to. But yeah, I don't know. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.319 Not meant to be rich, no shame. Maybe maybe platinum 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.760 is what's Oh yeah I could do platinum. Yeah, okay, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:38.480 listeners sen cherine platinum do hickeys? Well yeah, to wear? Yeah? Gold? 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.080 They so they lipic metals are not solid gold, they're 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:46.040 just gold coated. Interesting. Yeah, it's a little cheap. Yeah yeah, right, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.679 like you spend your whole life something. Then they did 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.280 chips off. Yeah, yeah, you drop it and it's just 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.880 plastic in the middle. I guess they have more values 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.320 on pic metals than they do as lumps of gold. Anyway, 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.760 you can sell them, and people have sold them online because, 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:06.360 as it turns out, like spending your entire youth exercising 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.040 and then getting to a point where you're too injured 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.920 or old to compete, it's sometimes not great for your 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.360 future career prospects and I've unfortunately seen lots of friends 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.840 take that path. And so I want to talk about 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.679 like the Olympics in the twentieth century, and specifically I 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.040 want to talk about the Olympics in the nineteen thirties. Right, 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.640 so when the Olympics. By the time we come to 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.199 the nineteen thirties, the Olympics have really become like they're 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.520 an American thing. The Los Angeles Olympics gives us a 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.480 lot of the modern Olympics, and the rest of the 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.439 mode Olympics we get from friend of the podcast Adolf 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.080 Hitler and his Nazi party. Of course, yeah, I knew 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.240 that you were expecting them. We never never don't expect Hitler. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.600 So nineteen thirty two is great. Like nineteen thirty two 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.040 Olympic village. They build this Olympic village. They haven't patrolled 0:13:55.080 --> 0:14:00.000 by cowboys, just like Hollywood cosplay Dude joh On horses 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.920 cowboy and around. It's the first. It's very weird. It's 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.800 the first Olympic village. And it's it becomes a real 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.720 estate investment, right like as soon as the Olympics are 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.640 done there in classic Los Angeles fashion, flipping the houses 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.880 for more than they were paid. So it also creates 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.200 this idea of like the Olympics as a mass spectacle 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.880 in nineteen thirty two is sometimes called the Hollywood Olympics, right, 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.320 and it really changes the game from rich people getting 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.800 together for rich people to a spectator event and a 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.280 mass spectator event. In nineteen thirty one, Spain's Dicta Blander 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.040 collapses and Dicta Blander is like a soft dictatorship as 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.400 opposed to Dictadoro as a hard dictatorship. Right, So, and 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.400 Spain becomes a republic. Nineteen thirty one. It's also the 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.080 time when the International Olympic Committee is meeting in Barcelona, 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:54.640 and for geographically challenged listeners Barcelona, it's in Catalonia, but 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.280 Catalonia is within Spain at this time. So the IOC 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.240 is all most entirely comprised of very rich people, and 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.840 many of them are like barons, counts, princes, other people 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.520 who like their job is being someone's kid, right, and 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.960 they just do things like being on the IOC to 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.760 occupy them what they spend their parents' money. So they're 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.280 in Spain at the time when Spain has just deposed 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:25.280 a monarch and it has this revolutionary republic, right, the 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.400 anarchists are in the street. It's about to begin a 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.080 campaign of two years of removing the church from its 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:37.280 official position, like anti clericalism and of land reform. These 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.400 are things which rich people do not like. And so 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.480 the vote happens in Barcelona about where to hold the 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:50.000 next Olympics, and the two leading candidates are Berlin and Barcelona. 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.720 After Barcelona, I think a little weird happens. See IOC 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.040 members all go home and not everyone has come to Barcelona, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.920 right because of the because of the change in the situation, 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.680 and instead of being like, okay, well we had a 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.920 vote in Barcelona one, the IOC makes an interesting and 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:12.880 relatively unique decision to have another vote by telegram, and 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.360 in the telegram vote they instead of going for the 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.280 unstable Spanish Second Republic, up for a more stable and 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:26.360 liberal democracy, which is of course viy my Germany. Of course, yeah, 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.680 good choice by their better rich folks. They really helped 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.240 us out there, and it's very interesting, Like I've spent 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.200 a lot of time with these telegrams, like the actual 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:41.000 paper telegrams in the International Olympic Committee archive in Lausanne, 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:46.040 trying to ascertain did they just like did the vote happen. 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:47.600 And then they were like, no, fuck, we can't go 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.600 to Barcelona, like we got to redo, We've got to 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.280 work out way to dig this, like we can't go 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.800 to this republican place, or that they claimed that there 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.280 weren't enough votes, right, that they didn't have like a quorum. 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.600 But I've looked at previous and subsequent votes, and there 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.680 are there are plenty of other votes that have fewer participants, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:06.639 And it was relatively normal at this time for not 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.120 everyone to show up at a meeting, right Because it's 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:14.520 nineteen thirty one, Traveling is hard, and so I can't 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.920 categorically say what's happened. But maybe that's what I suspect 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.680 has happened. I can't really see any way I could 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.680 find out now, and as I went to every member 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.520 of the International Olympic Committee at the time and looked 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.520 in their personal archive. But either way, they decided to 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:30.840 give the Olympics to this little place called firemar Germany 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.000 in between ninety thirty one and nineteen thirty six. History 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.800 fans will know that the Nazis game to parent Germany. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:44.520 Nazis not very nice people and no bad Many people 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.960 are saying, yeah, many people are saying the mosquitoes of 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:53.600 the world. Not sorry, we just recorded the Mosquito episode. Yes, yeah, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.360 in any ways, like the mosquito could be eradicated, maybe 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.680 wouldn't be bad. Yeah, my favorite georgiowelline one of my 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.480 favorite joints or all lines. I joined the militia to 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.439 kill a fascist because if all of us did so, 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.720 then there wouldn't be any of them left. Wow. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:14.960 very prescient. So the Olympics, when the Nazis going to power, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.800 first they want to do away with it. Right then 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:18.680 when they're like, fuck this, this is some bougie shit. 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.679 We're not into it. We don't want to see other people, 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.000 we don't care about other nations with arians. And then 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.400 over time the administrators of the Olympics, including guy called 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.600 Carl DM who would be classified, according to the nazis 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.440 own sort of standards, as a Jewish person, they persuade 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.520 the Nazis that having the Olympics will be good for them. 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.640 It will let them exhibit their shit on a world scale. 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.520 And they are not wrong. Right, The Olympics turned into 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.640 a massive boon for Nazi Germany. We don't have enough 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:53.280 time in this short episode to explain the whole boycott movement. 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.120 There was a substantial boycott movement, including in the United States. 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.320 The United States very nearly boycotted the Berlin Olympics, but 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.359 in the end it ended up not doing so you 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.520 had opposition from really interesting groups. Actually had opposition obviously 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:11.080 from Jewish groups, right because Nazis. You have opposition from 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.800 elements of an NAACP, but not from other elements because 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.720 they have this very reasonable objection. They're like, well, America 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.800 is also racist as fuck. Actually, like we also like 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.080 this is a time where we exclude black folks from 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.240 a lot of yeah, not yeah, And so you have 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.479 black folks boycotting, and you have black folks being like, now, 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.119 fuck it, like we'll take the chance, you know. And 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.720 then you have the opposition from an interesting group like 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.240 the liberal Catholics, right, because the Nazis had their own 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.000 ideas on religion, and so a lot of Catholics were 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.520 anti Nazi at that point, including Jeremiah Mahony, who was 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.600 president of the Amateur Athletic Union at the time, who 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.879 was kind of leading the boycott movement. The United States 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.040 decides not to boycott, lots of other places in the 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.520 world decide that they are going to boycott, right, and 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.360 lots of other people around the world. And that's where Barcelona. 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.760 They had a conference in Paris, actually the International Conference 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.800 for the Respect of the Olympic Ideal, and that is 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.520 the conference out of which the bars that remember bars 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.520 Oonner applied in thirty one. Right, So they have all 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.159 their shit together. They actually have the site of a 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.040 former World's Fair and that's what they're going to use. 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.280 So the Catalans come to this conference in April of 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.480 thirty six and are like, hey, we can have another Olympics, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.119 which isn't shit, And they go ahead and have their 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.040 Olympics and shit, now first happened the Nazi Olympics, Right. 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:34.480 The Nazi Olympics give us so much of what we 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:39.359 consider to be the Olympic tradition today. The torch relay, 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.800 you know, the torch relay. They go to Olympia and 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.159 bring the flame. Yeah, that's a Nazi thing. Actually, it 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.400 comes from the Nazis. The idea of drawing a link 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:51.880 from ancient Greece to Berlin was a Nazi idea. Why 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.960 don't we still do it? Yeah, that's a good question, Sharen. 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.440 Isn't it a good question. As we enter the Paris Olympics. 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.879 One thing they have done away was the Olympic salute 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.240 because it bears an unfortunate resemblance to the Nazis. So 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.199 they also start in no, the Olympic salute predates it. 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.840 So you have these interesting mark people march like were 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.000 they the parade at the opening ceremony of the Olympics, right, 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.440 and lots of these The pageantry of the opening ceremony 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.320 also comes from the Nazis, by the way, And we 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:22.359 got people walking in and the French come in and 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:24.159 they're doing a salute, and people like, is that the 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.120 Nazi salute they're doing? It's at the Olympic salute. I'm 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.000 pretty sure it's the Olympic salute. I'm pretty sure. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.760 If it's too close, I think it's bad. Yeah, I 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:35.760 think getting confused for something else. 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.399 I think I think you should stop. Yeah. I just 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.960 tried to not do things that look like gunsi kilink like. 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.240 That is how I how I live my life. You 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.320 have other nations who don't do it, right. You have 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.000 the Americans. The Americans traditionally in the so they're supposed 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.800 to dip their flag. The Americans have never dipped their 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.880 flag and Olympic opening ceremonies. So sometimes you'll see this written 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.040 as like, yeah, the Americans said, fuck, hey, they didn't. 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.560 They just did what they'd always done and which was 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:05.080 to not dip their flag, and that that Olympiad is 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.360 a great success for Hitler, right, Like this is where 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.080 a lot of this like, oh, but yeah, he's very efficient. 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:11.640 He makes a trains run on time. Kind of shit 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:13.359 comes from, right. They use it as a pageant and 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:17.159 they downplay their racism. They include a couple of Jewish 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.560 athletes on their team, which is one of the demands 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:23.679 of Avery. Brandage, head of the American Olympic Committee. Brandage 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.879 Brandish is an interesting dude. Brandage. You can read more 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.040 about Brandage in my book Rubber Did Behind the Bastards. 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.600 On Brandage, I don't think he begins the nineteen thirties 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.320 is an anti Semite. But after the boycott campaign, which 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.520 he calls a Jewish Communist conspiracy, well yeah, he absolutely 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:47.000 becomes an anti Semite. Like he grows closer to Hitler 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.080 when other because like his idea is that politics shouldn't 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:52.800 influence the games, which is inherently a political choice. When 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.919 the games have been given to fucking Adolf Hitler. So 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.000 the ninety thirty six Olympics go ahead in Germany, lots 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:03.119 of fascism, lots of zeg hiling, a real success for Hitler. 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.600 Ninety thirty six Olympics in Barcelona don't go ahead because 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.479 the Spanish Civil War. The Barcelona Olympics are like an 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:13.760 alternative to the Berlin Olympics. Yeah, at this time, also, 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:15.880 it should be pointed out that you got the Winter 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.280 Olympics when you've got the Olympics. So the Nazi had 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:23.959 already had their garments part in Kirshen Winter Olympics and 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.040 had predicted to be done a bunch of Nazi shit right, 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.520 which didn't stop anyone going to the Summer Olympics. Saran, 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:31.000 do you know what won't do a bunch of Nazi 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:35.159 ship what? James, it's the products and services that support 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:38.199 this show, Saran. I found it. 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:39.960 It's easier instead of trying to come up with something 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:41.760 just to give you the question right now. 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:58.800 Yeah, damn foiled again way back. So yeah, these Olympics 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:03.320 they're supposed to have in Barcelona, they don't happen because 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.520 of Spanish Civil war starts at the same time. Right, 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.320 lots of these anti fascist athletes go on to participate 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:10.320 as fighters in the Spanish Civil War, about four hundred 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.880 of them. The popul Olympics are call The main reason 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:14.840 they're call is because I've written a book about them, 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:19.040 but other reasons include that they had like elite amateur 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.120 and then provincial races, so like you could just show 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:23.520 up and be like, yeah, man, I'm just going to 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:25.400 fucking check my hand the ring one hundred meters, let's 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:27.720 see how I do, and there would be a place 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:28.359 for you to compete. 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:28.520 Right. 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:30.800 It wasn't about who was a freak athlete. They were 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.920 really interested in working class health. So for that reason, 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:37.880 they also had like these mass relay events where you'd 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:41.560 have like the fifty by twenty five meters or the 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:44.480 ten by fifty meters, and you couldn't have all runners. 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:46.920 So the idea was that the country that would win 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:49.000 or the nation that would win. Right, They competed as 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.240 nations rather than states, So the exiled Jews of Europe 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:56.680 competed together for the obvious reason that, like, if you're 0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:58.840 a German Jew in nineteen thirty six, you don't want 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:02.640 to compete for fucking Germany, so even at the Populalympics, 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:06.600 they competed to Jewish workers sports associations. And you have 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.360 exiled and anti fascists from Germany and Italy competing under 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:12.840 their own banners. And you have Glicia, Catalonia Skendy, the 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:16.879 Basque country competing s own ould nations, right, and the 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:19.760 same with the colonized people of North Africa. And you 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:22.800 have the women students of the world with their own 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:25.240 old team, which is nice. They also made a big 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:27.760 deal of including women, allowing women to do sports that 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.800 men do at the time in nineteen thirty six women 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.959 can run more than two hundred meters. Well, but they 0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:35.840 actually could, as it turns out, Yeah, yeah, right, they 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:40.399 just weren't allowed to c Yeah, shocking discovery. They didn't 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:45.479 just involve that capacity since thirty six. But these Olympics 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:47.800 don't go ahead because the Spanish evil War starts. Lots 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:50.880 of the anti fascist affete who came state to fight, right, 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:54.480 including people I've written about in my book. We did 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:56.679 a whole cool people who did cool stuff about this. 0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:58.560 So you can listen to more if you want to. 0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:01.640 In Margaret's feed. I'm sure if you search popular Olympics 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:03.800 will be there. By the way, you sometimes see it 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.960 translated as People's Olympics. I prefer popular because it's inherently 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:10.160 tied to the idea of a popular front, right, which 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:13.360 is a policy of like united front between everyone from 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:16.600 the liberals to the communists to the anarchists against fascism. 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:19.280 Sometimes the anarchists don't participate in the popular Front because 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:22.560 it is dominated by communists, and the communists, in fact 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:24.800 love to kill anarchists a lot more than they love 0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:27.479 to kill fascists, and they use the Popular Front as 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.680 cover for doing that, as we see in Spain. But 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:33.199 the anarchists did participate in workers or popular sport in Barcelona, 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:37.280 at least to an extent. So these games that said, 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:39.080 they don't happen. You can read about that in my book, 0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:41.879 or you can listen to Margaret's podcast about it. But 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:45.040 I want to talk about what the Olympics represent today, 0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:50.520 the modern Olympics. Right, they have become as they always were. Right, 0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:52.640 they continue to be a spectacle that they've been since 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:54.960 thirty two, and they continue to be a vehicle for 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:59.160 capitalism as they have been forever. Right, if we look 0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:01.680 at their research, Olympic Games. Right, we look at London, 0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:05.200 we look at Rio. I think Rio is a really 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.960 great example, right the Olympics, that they were able to 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:12.080 clear areas of the city using the potential Olympics. Right, 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:17.399 displace favela communities, displace poor and excluded and marginalized people, 0:27:18.040 --> 0:27:22.640 and take advantage of incredibly underpaid labor. And there's probably 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:25.760 it's a bit rarer now. But for like most of 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:31.840 the last eight years, you've met Haitian folks in Tijuana 0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:34.840 mostly right, the US has been especially racist and bigoted 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:37.439 towards Haitians, and you can I wrote a piece for 0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:41.919 NBC about Biden's hypocracy on Haitian immigration. But there were 0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:44.960 people who had worked on the Olympic Stadium in Brazil. Right, 0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:47.879 So they've gone from Haiti, like after the earthquake or 0:27:48.080 --> 0:27:50.880 the economic and political issues, so they've had ever since 0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:53.560 the earthquake, they've gone to Brazil. And then they've worked 0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:56.800 in Brazil building the stadia, getting paid fuck all and 0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:59.800 doing dangerous work. And then eventually I've been able to 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:02.400 find work that visas had run out or they'd otherwise 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:04.960 chosen to come north to the United States, and they 0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:07.359 often end up not being able to they end up 0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:10.000 stuck in Tijuana or living in Tijuana and find finding 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:14.840 work there. Right, So often Olympics take advantage of migrant labor. 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:19.880 They are used as a means of like reshaping the 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:26.880 city into like sculpting it under capitalism, right, pushing folks 0:28:26.920 --> 0:28:29.439 out of their neighborhoods. They don't do the Olympics in 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:32.680 bougie neighborhoods. They use it as an excuse to gentrify 0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:36.240 a neighborhood, to remove in trenched working class communities. Yeah, 0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:40.440 Like it's really sad. It's when I read so much 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:43.680 of the stuff about, like specifically the Barcelona Olympic Games, 0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:47.680 Like we see these people who are unquestionably good people, right, 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:50.760 Like they genuinely believe that through what they see is 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.680 the ideal of the Olympics, they can liberate women. They 0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:57.000 the Barcelona organizers so like, they didn't have much money, right, 0:28:57.040 --> 0:28:59.560 they were putting people up. And I found these forms 0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:02.360 in the arch if they'd go around people's houses and 0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:05.080 be like, hey, do you have a spare bedroom? And 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:06.680 in the form you can tick I have one, two, 0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:09.360 three spare bedrooms. I can serve breakfast. I can't serve 0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:11.800 breakfast and that's how they would bill at the athletes, right, 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:13.960 the athletes didn't have an Olympic village. They had a 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:15.960 hotel and then any surp plus you would just stay 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:18.520 with with a local person. It was a very different 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:21.480 vision of what the Olympics could have been. Right. They 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.040 really believed in the youth of the world coming together. 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:26.400 They really thought that at the popul Olympics they could 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:29.600 show the strength of anti fascism, that anti fishing wasn't 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:32.800 just a talking point, that it was that it was 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:35.400 young and it was healthy, and like most importantly, that 0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:38.880 they could fucking kill you, right, like that that sport 0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:41.760 all Well again double or Well quote episode or Well 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:45.440 called sport War without the shooting, and I think he's 0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:47.800 spot on. Actually it is good. He's got some bangos 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:52.280 sharene you do say that, Yeah, he's a word guy, 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:55.400 George Orwell. People do love to misquote George your Well, 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:58.680 but I like to quote him correctly. You know you 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:01.120 can you can always when someone misquote Georgia Will you 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.320 can always just quote tweet them with the I had 0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:06.320 joined them Unlicia to kill a fascist, right or the 0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:09.640 other absolute banger from all Well. I have no particular 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:11.560 love for the idealized worker as he exists in the 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:13.840 mind of the bourgeois communists. But when I see a 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:16.480 real flesh and bug worker in conflict with his natural enemy, 0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:18.720 the policeman, I don't have to ask myself which side 0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:24.200 them on. Ooh, it's a banger, that's that's poetry. Yeah 0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:27.680 it is. It's great. Like it's something that when I 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:31.840 get around, will have tattooed on my body maybe like 0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:36.680 maybe when I have to cross fewer borders. It's probably 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:38.600 not something you want to be showing after the intelligence 0:30:38.640 --> 0:30:41.920 agencies of various countries. Yeah, it's really sad to see 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:43.600 this thing, and I think it does have potential. I 0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:45.280 think it's a potential. What I want to end on 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:48.160 is like I think we can recover that potential, Like 0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:51.440 we can take the Olympics away from the people who 0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:54.520 did nineteen oh four and the people who did nineteen 0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:57.600 thirty six, and like it doesn't mean to have to 0:30:57.720 --> 0:30:59.960 use that obviously that the IOC is not fucking coming 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:03.800 with us, right, I've been to the IOC, very nice building, 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:07.400 but like this is the you know, the the interests 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.880 of finance, capital and the interesting iOS here inherently tied 0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:13.160 coca coat. Every massive corporation in the world is a 0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:18.000 massive spot for the Olympics, right, And it's also been 0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:19.720 a platform for some really good things that we think about. 0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:22.320 Tommy Smith and John Carlos right at the ninety sixty 0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:24.720 eight Olympics giving a raise fist salute on the podium. 0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:28.080 I'm sure you've seen it. There's a statue of them, 0:31:28.440 --> 0:31:31.800 several statues of them, I think, actually, but yeah, very 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:34.560 famous Olympic moment. The whole ninety sixty eight Olympics actually 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:37.600 kind of gave a platform for protest, and Parisians have 0:31:37.640 --> 0:31:41.200 been protesting against this Olympics, and Angelino's are already protesting 0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:43.800 against what it's going to happen in twenty eight. You 0:31:43.840 --> 0:31:47.520 can look up no Olympics LA for those folks, and 0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:49.800 I think that that is something that's worth supporting. I 0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:52.640 don't think that the idea is inherently bad, the idea 0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:55.760 of coming together to play and like sports are, where 0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:57.360 we decide who's on our team and who's not on 0:31:57.360 --> 0:31:59.760 our team, right, And what the popular Olympics did was 0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:01.720 said working people are all on the same team. And 0:32:01.760 --> 0:32:03.960 they've played that out right. The day the games were 0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:05.960 supposed to start. Some of those athletes were in the 0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:09.200 streets killing fascists and they weren't. Right that day, that 0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:12.360 minitary coup failed in Barcelona, and a lot of them 0:32:12.680 --> 0:32:15.760 left really feeling like they got something out of the 0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:17.920 games that they couldn't have got, or that they came 0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:20.120 to play and then they saw like what they were 0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:24.160 playing for acted out. And I think there's still something 0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:27.680 really powerful in that, but we can only get there 0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:30.680 by acknowledging how fucked up the Olympics have always been. 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.520 I see this like liberal narratives that the Libs the 0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:35.920 Olympics were once great and about sportsmanship and now they're 0:32:35.920 --> 0:32:39.160 about capitalism. No fuck that, Like they have always been 0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:43.280 inherently about capitalism, they've been inherently about colonialism, about eugenics. Right, 0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:46.160 the medal table. We don't do the medal table for 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.600 shits and giggles. The medal table is there to prove 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:52.720 like the superiority of one race. Like that is why 0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:57.440 Hitler is obsessed with the medal table. Right, He's extremely 0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:01.040 worried that like either they like folks in the United States, 0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:03.600 or like God forbid, the Japanese do well in the Olympics. 0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:07.160 It's like, and then the Olympics trying to sort of 0:33:08.320 --> 0:33:10.800 posit itself as inherently pro human rights I think is 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:14.400 very problematic when yeah, we look at like how Olympics 0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:17.000 Stadia get constructed by whom they get constructed and where 0:33:17.000 --> 0:33:21.160 they get constructed, Yeah, who they effect and yeah, and 0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:24.640 who who they're for and who who they take from. 0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:27.400 So I know, I'm not saying don't watch the Olympics. 0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:29.880 Like when I was a kid, the Olympics were like 0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:33.040 fucking formative in me wanting to do sports, and when 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:35.320 I was an athlete, the Olympics I wanted to do. 0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:37.320 I have friends who are going to be at the Olympics, 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:40.480 and like, I guess I wish them the best, but 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:44.680 still a bad thing. And like I certainly don't blame 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:46.920 folks who come from like resource coorse settings for taking 0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:47.760 that chance. 0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:52.040 Of course, but it is like, yeah, the way it 0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:54.160 currently is and the way it's always been is just. 0:33:56.000 --> 0:34:00.280 Doesn't necessarily make the world a better place. But maybe 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:00.520 there's a. 0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:04.800 Different timeline where I don't know, Barcelona's idealism of an 0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:05.720 Olympics is like. 0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:09.480 True, Yeah, I know, I think we can bring it back. 0:34:09.520 --> 0:34:12.360 I think like antio fascism is having a moment that 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:14.480 it probably hasn't had it in to Nineteen's true, that's 0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:16.520 very true in the last four years. Can we can 0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:19.120 get together and we can have our own institutions too, Like, 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:21.200 I don't think we should abandon sport to the chuds, 0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:25.399 of course, the chuds of like sport, Like, yeah, there's 0:34:25.400 --> 0:34:25.840 a way. 0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:27.359 But I also don't want anyone to use it as 0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:31.439 a way to like not sports wash, but like kind 0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:34.880 of focus on something that is not as relevant as 0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:35.600 the bigger picture. 0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:38.719 Does that make sense? Like it yeah, totally, Like, yeah, 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:41.640 it shouldn't be used to distract exactly, that's what that's 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:45.360 the short word. Yeah, And like it has been like 0:34:45.560 --> 0:34:48.920 global sports are increasingly going to like Petro states in 0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:52.040 the Middle East. Yeah, right, Like, and that is a problem. 0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:53.600 I think if you're an athlete, I would encourage you 0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:55.759 to really consider what your role is. I know some 0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:58.280 of my friends listen who are still like professional athletes 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:00.799 and there just think about out what you can do, 0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:02.400 and like, I will tell you that when you stop 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:05.680 getting paid to exercise, all of it seems very unimportant 0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:10.160 and like you suddenly realize that in my case, but 0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:13.120 there's important shit that you can do if you have 0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:14.640 a chance to do it, and you should do it 0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:19.280 if you get the chance. But yeah, I think hopefully, 0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:22.439 you know, if people want to know more about the Populalympics, 0:35:22.760 --> 0:35:27.319 I will fucking talk Carreer of med Email. Yeah, my book, 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:29.040 I think it might be on libcom now as well. 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:30.839 I think you can. I think it's been pirated, which 0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:32.479 is good to see. You can get it from your library. 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:33.719 I'd love you to get it from your library, because 0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:36.440 the it's fair for someone else libraries. Yeah, I do 0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:38.720 love a library. Yeah, we should do a library episode. 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:39.120 Yeah. 0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:41.000 Well, I was trying to get the library San Diego 0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.600 Library Association on because we've been defunding the libraries here 0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:45.239 in San Diego to have more cops. 0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:49.280 Yeah, it's fucking great. Yeah, no, I love the libraries. 0:35:49.320 --> 0:35:52.320 Are just this I don't know, pure little place. We 0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:54.040 got to do some library episodes. 0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:56.160 Yeah, we'll do, and we we'll get them back. We'll 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:58.480 get the library. So if you work in a library 0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:01.640 and the police are takeing away the money used to 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:05.080 read books of little children, you can you can DM 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:08.399 me on x dot com. Yeah, and we will fight 0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:12.520 the good fight for you. Yeah, all right, that's uh, 0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:15.680 that's that's been the Olympics. No, go, go forth, do 0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:18.440 a little decathlon. Here's a fine Olympic fact for you, 0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:22.359 a fun fun facts. End the episode. A general pattern, right, 0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:26.839 American war guy entered the pentathlon at the Olympics and 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.360 used such a large pistol that they were unable to 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.759 determine the size of his grouping of shots on the 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:38.480 target because he just viscerated the whole target his handcannon. Yeah. So, 0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:43.200 embody that the pentathlon a sport that was designed to 0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:46.880 train offices. Right, you have to run, swim, ride a horse, 0:36:47.200 --> 0:36:50.000 sword fight, and shoot. Yeah, so make a better pentathlon, 0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:53.879 make make an anti fascist to cathalon. Yeah, send us 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:56.360 your You can tag us with your your decathlon ideas 0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:59.320 on on x dot com. We both use at I write, Okay, 0:36:59.360 --> 0:37:03.359 bizarrely we have the same the same Twitter handle. Yeah, 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:07.640 send us your sporting ideas. Enjoy your little Olympic viewing. 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:09.400 Now that I've ruined it all for you, I guess. 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:11.440 Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's good to know context. 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:15.040 But yeah, until next time, Until the next time you 0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:17.920 and dreams talk about something either terrible or fun. 0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:22.279 Or somewhere in between. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll yeah, we'll 0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:23.920 be back seeing with something else. You'll never know what 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:26.040 These will always fucking just these must just come out 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:28.759 of left field for people like, what the fuck are 0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:30.360 they talking about today? 0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:32.880 Well, I guess I'll ever know until you listen. 0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:34.480 That's listen every day. 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:50.520 Bye bye bye. 0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:58.919 Welcome to it up Here a podcast where I Lea 0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:04.440 Wong have Readamala Harris's dad, Donald Harris's book. This is 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.239 This is the podcast that you're listening to now with 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:12.960 me to experience this actually genuinely fairly interesting work of 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:13.920 political economy. 0:38:14.000 --> 0:38:17.200 Is James Stout. Hi, man, I'm so excited to know 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:20.200 what Donald has for us today. Me too. 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:23.160 I'm you know, I'm I'm of a bunch of minds 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.279 of this book because I think the the actual key 0:38:26.360 --> 0:38:31.000 element of this book, which is called Capital Accumulation and 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:34.640 Income Distribution, is that it is unbelievably technically dense. 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:35.560 You know. 0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:37.320 Okay, we're going to get into the book. First, we 0:38:37.400 --> 0:38:40.640 sort we should talk a bit about who Donald Harris is. 0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:44.560 So a lot of the focus around this is Kamala Harris, 0:38:45.360 --> 0:38:48.920 the presumptive Democratic nominees dad. So a lot of the 0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:52.280 media coverage around him is around him being a Marxist. 0:38:52.800 --> 0:38:57.200 This is debatable obviously, is what I'm like the conclusion 0:38:57.239 --> 0:38:58.319 I'm going to come out of this, But. 0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:02.040 I'm shocked that people plan on media today might misunderstand 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:04.279 basic things about Marxism and who is and he's not 0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:06.879 a Marxist, Yeah, I mean I think. 0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:09.239 But so the thing about this book, So this book 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:11.960 is from nineteen seventy eight, which is actually after he 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:15.520 had broken up with Kamala's mom, and so Kamala doesn't 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:17.640 like know him super well. 0:39:18.280 --> 0:39:21.400 Was he like not present in her younger life. Kamala's 0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:21.880 mom and. 0:39:21.960 --> 0:39:24.239 Dad divorced when she was like five, in like four 0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:26.000 or five, So this is this is written about a 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:26.880 decade after that. 0:39:27.600 --> 0:39:30.120 Yeah, much like the New American Communist Party, like a 0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:33.320 lot a lot of divorce guys just love to be Communists. 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:35.439 It's the thing about divorce guys. Oh god. 0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:39.520 Yeah. So you know, one of the sort of the 0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:43.320 thing everyone kind of cites about, like Donald Harris's politics, 0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:45.840 that he was in this sort of like Black Studies, 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:48.080 like I guess proto Black Studies group that produced a 0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:49.920 bunch of like black panthers produced a lot of very 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:55.960 radical people. But you know, the interesting thing about Donald 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:58.680 Harris is that he is not the Marxist that you 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:01.600 would expect to see coming out of sort of like 0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:05.000 that Miliu, because those people's Marxism, you know, I mean, 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:08.440 he is very interested in sort of underdevelopment and you know, 0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:12.640 sort of like imperialism, but he's he's not well from 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:15.840 one of the sort of like Baoists inflected kinds of Marxism, 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:17.920 which are the kinds that tended to be sort of 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:19.000 floating around. 0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:20.960 Like that time. 0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:24.640 He in fact, he is a very very rare kind 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:27.080 of Marxist, which is to say, well, A, he doesn't 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:28.840 call himself a Marxist. He calls himself a Marxi in 0:40:28.840 --> 0:40:33.440 the entire time. But b yeah, in tolerable and we 0:40:33.480 --> 0:40:36.280 don't understand what this is. So there's a very famous 0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:39.080 marx quote where he's complaining about I think it was 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:41.359 something the German Social Democratic Party did or something where 0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:43.439 he where people are calling themselves Marxists, and he goes, 0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:45.560 and this is what if this is what Marxism is, 0:40:45.640 --> 0:40:47.600 and I am not a Marxist. And so for one 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:50.439 hundred years, since then, one hundred and fifty years, people 0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:52.920 have been calling themselves Marxians instead of Marxists. 0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:55.759 But this is all over that book. I'm developing a 0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:58.880 picture of a kind of guy, Oh yeah, panting me 0:40:58.880 --> 0:41:01.000 a rich portrait man. Yeah so. 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:03.160 But the interesting part is he's what's known as a 0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:07.000 post Kanesian and weirdly, dear listeners, you are you are 0:41:07.120 --> 0:41:09.200 some of the only people in this entire country. You 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:11.439 have a prayer of knowing who these people are because 0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:13.080 we've actually had a bunch of them on the show. 0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:16.680 If if people remember the episodes that I did about 0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:19.759 inflation over the last sort of like year, I guess, 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:21.359 like two years. I don't know it, it's been it's 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:23.840 been a long time. But the episode's about inflation that 0:41:23.960 --> 0:41:26.160 we did with the with the folks over at Strange Matters. 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:28.960 Those people are the sort of the int one of 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:30.880 one of the groups that are the intellectual heirs to 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:34.879 sort of post Kanesianism. It's a you know, I guess 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:37.520 it's post Kansianism, is kind of it's I guess it's 0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:42.320 like the largest of what's called the heterodox economics UH schools. 0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:44.719 We're gonna get more into what it is later, because 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:47.000 it's not just like you know, so it's post Kanesian 0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:50.880 after like John Vader Kanes, it's not really Canes and 0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:53.560 that that's that's gonna become very important as second. But 0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:55.640 you know this, this is sort of an issue because 0:41:55.680 --> 0:41:57.600 it means that it's actually it's really really hard for 0:41:57.719 --> 0:41:59.279 a normal person to figure out what the fuck is 0:41:59.320 --> 0:42:00.680 going on with this book book. And this is something 0:42:00.719 --> 0:42:03.600 that I discovered, you know, partially just from reading it, 0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:06.000 and partially also I mean this like, I have a 0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:08.440 pretty good background to do this, because I know a 0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:11.000 lot of Postcansian economics, and I also have studied a 0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:12.520 lot of Marks, and you need both of those to 0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:15.440 be able to write about this. However, come I discovered 0:42:15.480 --> 0:42:18.400 two hours to put this recording. I discovered that the 0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:21.520 economist had set some hack who they refused to name, 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:26.479 to write about this book, and this person managed, okay, 0:42:26.520 --> 0:42:30.440 on top of just like straight up, like not literally, 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:33.480 their explanation of what the book is about is simply wrong. 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:36.600 In just four paragraphs, they managed to make an error 0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:38.719 so egregious that if I had turned this shit into 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:40.680 my professor's in college, it would have failed before it 0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:44.520 So okay, okay, So one of the things the author 0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:47.360 talks about is this thing called the Cambridge capital controversy. 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.760 And this author claims that this controversy was fought between 0:42:50.760 --> 0:42:53.800 the neo and post Kansians. Now, this is probably gibberish 0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:55.680 to like nineteen percent of people listening to this, but 0:42:56.400 --> 0:42:59.040 in terms of heterodox economics, this is the equivalent of 0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:02.400 not knowing who fought in World War Two. Like this 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:06.160 is the Cambridge cancer controversy. Is It's it's basically these 0:43:06.239 --> 0:43:08.400 single moments in which this kind of like this kind 0:43:08.400 --> 0:43:11.440 of heterodox economics appears onto the economic scene in a 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.520 way that like they were able to force the sort 0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:17.840 of mainstream neoclassical economists to take to pay attention to. 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:23.600 And this battle should, like intellectually should have completely destroyed 0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:26.720 all of neoclassical economics. Right, everything you've ever heard about 0:43:26.760 --> 0:43:29.480 how price equal supply and demand like so all those curves, 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:32.320 all of that is fucking bullshit. All of it was 0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:35.640 destroyed by one single happening about the course of a 0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:38.400 decade between the sort of post Knesians, mostly Serappha but 0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:41.000 also Joe and Robinson I think actually started it. We're 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:42.800 gonna talk about those people more later. This is a 0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:46.600 battle between them, and there is specifically the neoclassical economists, 0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:49.759 and by the end of it, the neoclassical economists were 0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:53.000 forced to admit that they couldn't they couldn't figure out 0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:56.120 a way to like measure the value of a bundle 0:43:56.200 --> 0:43:58.960 of like capital goods. So if you have two different machines, 0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:03.080 neoclassical economy cannot tell you the value of And this 0:44:03.600 --> 0:44:06.959 this completely annihilates neoclassic economics. All of it is fucking 0:44:07.000 --> 0:44:09.399 fake because you know, they need this for the production function. 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:11.880 Without the production function, like you can't even get to 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:15.200 supply and demand, right, every literally everything, all of their 0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:18.840 stuff immediately falls apart. I'm not going to like attempt 0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:21.520 to an explanation of the Cambridge capital controversy was what 0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:23.479 it was actually about here, because it's it's a little 0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:26.120 bit it's something that you can understand, but it's a 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:28.120 little bit technical and it's hard to explain in podcast 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:30.960 form if you if you're really curious about this, the 0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:35.239 book Capital as Power. Capital as Power has a really 0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:37.520 great explanation of it in chapter five that's pretty short. 0:44:37.760 --> 0:44:40.279 You can just literally find a PDF of Capital as 0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:42.879 Power by just googling it. But this is a level 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:45.000 of sort of like confusion we're getting with here. We're 0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:48.160 like the person the economist assigned to write this like 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:50.600 knows so little about it that and you know, the 0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:52.920 other thing about this, this whole controversy is that the 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:56.239 Cambridge Cancel capital controversy is in the book, and in 0:44:56.360 --> 0:45:00.279 the book, Donald Harris very specifically talks about the There's 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:02.160 an entire chapter of the book that it's just him 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:05.160 using the products of the Cambridge capital controversy to completely 0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:06.520 destroy a classical economics. 0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:09.040 This is an entire chapter of the book. And this 0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:10.839 guy got who was about wrong? Right? 0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:13.520 So this is a book that is is very very 0:45:13.600 --> 0:45:16.000 easy to misinterpret and very very easy to sort of 0:45:16.400 --> 0:45:19.440 not like you know, just to sort of like completely 0:45:19.480 --> 0:45:21.200 misunderstand or bounce off of. 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:21.759 I it was. 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:23.879 It was hard for me, and like I'm pretty well 0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:27.360 set up to deal with it. So, Okay, what what 0:45:27.680 --> 0:45:30.480 the fuck is this book about? The very the shortest 0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:34.040 answer I can possibly give is it's an attempt to 0:45:34.320 --> 0:45:40.560 build a sort of mathematical model of how how of 0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:42.400 of sort of like that measures the growth of an 0:45:42.400 --> 0:45:47.239 economy and can sort of like determine based on like 0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:50.759 different sort of inputs of uh, you know, we'll get 0:45:50.800 --> 0:45:52.319 to the bore of the second and like in terms 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:54.799 of like inputs of capital and like parts of labor, 0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:56.719 like how how you can have an economy that grows 0:45:56.760 --> 0:45:59.799 stably over time. But in order to like get into 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:03.000 really what this is, we need to do something that 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:05.200 actually is the first part of this book. We need 0:46:05.280 --> 0:46:10.520 to do a brief survey of the last two hundred 0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:14.880 and thirty two hundred and forty years of economics. But 0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:17.839 before we do that, do you know what economics exist 0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:18.320 to sell you? 0:46:19.160 --> 0:46:22.520 I do? Actually that is a fantastic transition. Mayah, That 0:46:22.800 --> 0:46:26.319 is it goods and services. It is in fact goods 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:28.560 and services, price less capital goods. 0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:42.480 All right, and we are back, So okay, in order 0:46:42.520 --> 0:46:45.920 to understand literally what this fundamental project is, we have 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:51.960 to talk about sort of the three broad categories of economists. 0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:56.160 So the first sort of original in we're not gonnare 0:46:56.160 --> 0:46:57.880 there's a couple there's people before this, but like the 0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:01.480 the in terms of like economists whose work is important 0:47:01.520 --> 0:47:04.320 to now, there's three broad categories, and we're going to 0:47:04.360 --> 0:47:07.879 start with the classical economists broadly. There's also about three 0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:11.200 important classical economists. This is this is an argument, and 0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:12.799 this is one of the arguments that Donald Harris makes 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:14.359 in the opening of this book is about who these 0:47:14.400 --> 0:47:17.720 people are. So his argument is it's Adam Smith, Malthus, 0:47:17.800 --> 0:47:20.200 and Ricardo. We don't care about Mauthus for our purposes. 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:24.800 He's most well known for being the like the the 0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:27.759 like out of control population growth will kill one on Earth. 0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:30.560 We need to like slow populate stuff like. That's not 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:34.160 super relevant for us. Everyone, I think kind of has 0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:37.040 a has a basic familiarity with Adam Smith. But for 0:47:37.160 --> 0:47:39.920 our purposes, the important one is Ricardo, who is not 0:47:40.120 --> 0:47:43.320 very well known at all. Ricardo is sort of concerned 0:47:43.680 --> 0:47:50.239 with basically the distribution of surpluses between the classes. So 0:47:50.400 --> 0:47:52.319 for him, that there's there's there's three major classes, right, 0:47:52.320 --> 0:47:54.600 there's landlords as capitalists, and there's workers. And he's concerned 0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:59.360 about how the sort of the the surplus product of 0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:01.239 a society, which is like all of the sort of 0:48:02.080 --> 0:48:05.120 stuff that's produced in an economy that isn't literally directly 0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:07.680 necessary for everyone to survive. How is that sort of 0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:10.240 surplus like distributed and how does this sort of impact 0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:13.440 economic growth? The post Kanesian tradition that Donald Harris is 0:48:13.520 --> 0:48:18.000 in is in a real sense they are successors to Ricardo, right. 0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:21.080 A lot of I've mentioned Piero Siraffa, who is like 0:48:21.160 --> 0:48:24.440 probably the central figure of post Kanesian economics. He's a 0:48:24.480 --> 0:48:28.400 really interesting guy. He knows like everyone, like he knew Canes. 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:32.480 He was weirdly friends with Antonio Grampsi, the former head 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:36.040 of the Italian Communist Party, who's enormously influential work was 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:39.080 like new him, And a lot of what Sarafa's work 0:48:39.239 --> 0:48:42.440 is is kind of like getting Ricardo's economics to like 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:45.520 work properly and then turning that into sort of a 0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:49.120 new framework for how you model economies. Now, the other 0:48:49.400 --> 0:48:54.520 part of this, you know, so okay, who isn't isn't 0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:57.000 the classical economist is also a huge source of debate 0:48:57.040 --> 0:48:58.600 because there's a lot of people who throw marks in 0:48:58.760 --> 0:49:01.719 as part of the classical economy, that's a traditional way 0:49:01.760 --> 0:49:04.520 to view it. Harris doesn't think that he's a classical economist. 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:08.719 He thinks that he's his own thing. So for our purposes, 0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:11.799 you know, it's and and Harris is also I mean, 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:14.320 I think he considers himself a Marxist, even in this 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:17.320 period and a lot of this book is an attempt 0:49:17.440 --> 0:49:21.360 to sort of merge Marxian political economy with like the 0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:23.640 sort of neo Ricardi and stuff that s Rafa is doing. 0:49:24.000 --> 0:49:26.960 Does he change later? Do you know? Is Harris one 0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:29.480 of these guys who goes on like intellectual journey and 0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:32.680 becomes Oh, we'll get there, We'll get to where all 0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:34.760 this ends up at the end of this episode. 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:37.120 But you know, it's interesting because you can actually see 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:38.960 it kind of happening in the middle of this book 0:49:39.000 --> 0:49:39.920 in ways that we're going to get to. 0:49:40.640 --> 0:49:42.880 I love that. I love a book where your thic 0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:44.080 sort of personal journey. 0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:46.320 It's also very funny because the economist guy, I was like, 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:48.239 oh my god, he's so Marxist. He's concerned with the 0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:51.800 value for him and like, okay, I to put my 0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:53.120 Marxist cards on the table. 0:49:53.560 --> 0:49:54.880 Maybe six people will understand this. 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:57.080 But like I was like brought up in terms of 0:49:57.200 --> 0:50:00.719 learning like Marxist theory, like through the through the value 0:50:00.760 --> 0:50:01.360 form school. 0:50:01.719 --> 0:50:04.000 He is not a value form guy. He plays really 0:50:04.120 --> 0:50:07.440 fast and loose. What value is? Uh, it's it's I 0:50:07.600 --> 0:50:09.920 was reading this and I was going, oh god, oh no, 0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:13.879 what is this. He's so wrong? He's so bafflingly wrong. 0:50:16.760 --> 0:50:20.920 The What the the Economists is subtitled A Combative Marxist 0:50:20.960 --> 0:50:26.640 Economists with White House Influence, which like, thanks God. 0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:30.760 Yeah, okay, so so the the the basis of Marxist 0:50:30.840 --> 0:50:33.960 Marxian political economy is the labor theory of value. We're 0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:36.640 gonna explain this briefly because it actually winds up mattering 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:39.360 a lot to this book. So value is the product 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:42.239 of the labor time socially necessary to produce a commodity. Right, 0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:44.800 It's like how long does it take like a specific 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:47.759 place to produce a watch? You know, workers are paid 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:49.960 enough to reproduce themselves or paid enough to sort of 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:53.960 like eat, sleep and like have kids. There are more workers, 0:50:54.400 --> 0:50:56.200 but the rest of their labor time is stolen by 0:50:56.239 --> 0:50:59.640 capitalists and is thus unremunerated. This unpaid labor time is 0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:02.120 called surplus value. And this is what capital has made off. 0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:03.920 So this is like a very very basis of sort 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:06.879 of what Marxism is, and you know, in in sort 0:51:06.920 --> 0:51:10.320 of Marxism. And this is sort of different than Ricardo, 0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:13.200 which is like work. Ricardo understands that there are classes 0:51:13.280 --> 0:51:15.640 and that they are in conflict to some extent. But 0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:19.440 you know, for marx the central dynamics of capitalism is, 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:21.719 you know, is the conflict between the bourgeoisie or the 0:51:21.760 --> 0:51:24.279 capitalists who own the means of production and then you know, 0:51:24.440 --> 0:51:27.160 and buy that ownership, like extract surplus value from the 0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:29.759 proletariat and the proletariat or the working class or forced 0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:31.640 to sell their labor to capitalists, et cetera, et cetera. 0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:33.200 Something very interesting. 0:51:34.200 --> 0:51:37.680 Two ideas run into each other very quickly in Harris's work, 0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:41.480 because you know, so there is a thing called surplus 0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:44.400 in in the tradition of sort of Ricardo and in 0:51:44.480 --> 0:51:48.400 the tradition of like Serapha and this of the post Kansians, right, 0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:51.399 and that surplus is very critically not the same thing 0:51:51.440 --> 0:51:56.920 as Marxian surplus value. So you know what part of 0:51:57.000 --> 0:51:58.839 part of what's happening here is that Harris is trying 0:51:58.840 --> 0:52:01.360 to square the circle base between these two approaches to 0:52:02.320 --> 0:52:04.600 like to what surplus is and sort of what the 0:52:04.719 --> 0:52:09.120 nature of value is. So you know, in the Marxist tradition, right, 0:52:10.120 --> 0:52:12.760 surplus value is still in labor time, and the value 0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:14.680 of producer sort of flows through the economy, and it's 0:52:14.680 --> 0:52:16.520 what turned you know, like stealing this labor time is 0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:20.080 what turns capital into more capital. Right in the post 0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:26.239 in post Cantine economics, surplus is you know, so so 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:29.480 in in sort of like a seraf in work or 0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:32.720 in this book too, right, you have basically a production matrix, 0:52:33.920 --> 0:52:36.680 which is like as a MATC that models how production works, 0:52:36.719 --> 0:52:39.320 and it's what it's doing is modeling the entire output 0:52:39.360 --> 0:52:42.560 of society at one time. And in this model, so 0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:45.239 there there's sort of like you know, there's all the 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:47.560 commodity and labor inputs that compose the economy and they 0:52:47.600 --> 0:52:50.400 come back out and there's a certain amount of commodities. 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:51.880 This is the thing we talked about with the Kardo, right, 0:52:51.880 --> 0:52:53.840 there's there's certain amount of commodities you need to produce 0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:57.000 so that everyone can the entire system can reproduce itself, 0:52:57.200 --> 0:53:00.480 and beyond that is surplus. So what you're dealing with 0:53:00.760 --> 0:53:03.239 is this weird mixture because Harris is trying to work 0:53:03.280 --> 0:53:04.680 with both of these at the same time, where like, 0:53:05.120 --> 0:53:08.239 on the one hand you have surplus as like like 0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:10.560 stolen value in a form of like stolen labor time, 0:53:10.600 --> 0:53:12.719 and on the other hand you have it in this 0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:15.000 regarded sense of like there's a bunch of commodities that 0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:18.480 we've produced that's like access to our like ability to 0:53:18.880 --> 0:53:22.120 to like our needs to reproduce ourselves. And he's trying 0:53:22.239 --> 0:53:27.879 to square these and it doesn't work. It just sort 0:53:27.920 --> 0:53:30.440 of breaks down, like. 0:53:30.560 --> 0:53:34.279 Does he like actively address this like dual meaning and 0:53:34.360 --> 0:53:35.880 then explain like, y. 0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:43.080 Yeah, well so his basic issue is that so the 0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:45.239 way he does this mostly is by just moving back 0:53:45.280 --> 0:53:49.040 and forth between the two systems and not trying to 0:53:49.080 --> 0:53:50.880 reconcile them. And then the one time he has to 0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:54.000 kind of do it, he has to, oh god, do 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:55.720 I want to try to explain the transformation problem? 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:59.840 He has to do this thing where. 0:54:01.120 --> 0:54:05.480 Okay, so if theoretically, if you want to convert surplus value, 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:07.880 like in the Marxist Marxian sense into the sort of 0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:11.200 like neo Ricardian thing, you need to turn it into prices. 0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:15.359 And there's a long running controversy in in Marxism over 0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:18.000 whether or not you can actually do that because the 0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:21.120 math is weird, it doesn't work very well. I'm not 0:54:21.200 --> 0:54:23.880 gonna he doesn't solve it. He just gives up and 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:25.440 says that you can't do it because they're in two 0:54:25.480 --> 0:54:28.960 separate spheres, which is the most compound answer I've ever 0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:30.360 seed in my entire life. 0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:37.440 It's I love that. Yeah, it's it's it's it's wild. 0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:41.320 But you know, so, so back to the sort of 0:54:41.440 --> 0:54:43.719 main arc of what the fuck is smoke about here, 0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:46.880 I'm probably probably I'm promost we're reaching. 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:48.520 The promised lamp. We have to do this stuff first. 0:54:49.400 --> 0:54:52.359 Okay, so those are, you know, the the two kinds 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.359 of economics that that Donald Harris is trying to work 0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:57.840 with are this sort of post Canesian stuff, which is 0:54:57.920 --> 0:55:00.960 derived from like Ricardo and classical economists, and then like 0:55:01.120 --> 0:55:05.080 Marxian stuff. There's also the third school, which is neoclassical economics, 0:55:05.120 --> 0:55:07.560 which this is all the economics that you've learned in school, right, 0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:11.400 This is supplied demand. This is like your production functions. 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:13.680 This is your like every time someone starts lecturing you 0:55:13.840 --> 0:55:15.680 about how the economy works. 0:55:15.719 --> 0:55:16.520 This is all this stuff. 0:55:16.560 --> 0:55:20.320 Yeah. What's very important for our purposes, and this is 0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:23.800 something that Harris brings up is the single largest difference 0:55:23.960 --> 0:55:29.520 between neoclassical economics and whatever came before. It isn't that like, 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:32.200 I don't know, everything's about marginal utility or whatever the 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:37.040 fuck's that. It's that in neoclassical economics, there are no classes. 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:40.320 They just pretend that classes don't exist. 0:55:40.960 --> 0:55:46.760 Yeah wow, And in much of American politics, yeah, Germany 0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:48.759 politics sadly well. 0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:50.960 And this is also why like the American conception of 0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:53.600 class is so nuts and why everyone's running around in 0:55:53.640 --> 0:55:55.760 circle is trying to measure it by like income levels, 0:55:55.840 --> 0:55:58.879 because all the economics they use don't have a thing 0:55:58.960 --> 0:56:00.480 that establishes what class is. 0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:05.520 It is one of the jarring differences between the United 0:56:05.640 --> 0:56:09.240 Kingdom and the United States, how like we are hyper 0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:13.400 aware of class and like it's something that like arguably, 0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:17.040 like Britain is obsessed with to detriment of other Like yeah, 0:56:18.280 --> 0:56:20.400 and you go to America and fucking like like if 0:56:20.520 --> 0:56:22.279 if you have a job that pays you occasionally, your 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:24.920 middle class and then fucking everyone is apparently and like 0:56:25.960 --> 0:56:28.120 it becomes a meaningless term. I guess. Yeah. 0:56:28.360 --> 0:56:31.400 This is very explicitly for political reasons, right. Neoclassical economics 0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:33.800 is developed as an attack on Marxism, like this is 0:56:33.880 --> 0:56:35.960 this is this is its actual sort of origin, and 0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:39.640 it's originators are like very explicit about this right now, 0:56:40.200 --> 0:56:42.240 And this is where we get back to Sarafa, because 0:56:42.480 --> 0:56:47.400 Sarraffa's work effectively is an attack on neoclassical economics, and 0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:52.520 Sarraffa in ninety nine pages literally destroys everything they'd ever produced. 0:56:53.280 --> 0:56:56.560 But you know, the new classical solution to this is 0:56:56.600 --> 0:56:58.480 basically to get everyone who talked about it fired. And 0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:01.840 this actually worked, Like they's basically massive social cleansing campaign 0:57:01.920 --> 0:57:04.160 of like all of the sort of heterodox economists they 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:06.279 got they got the ball fired and it worked. And 0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:08.200 Harris actually weirdly was kind of was like one of 0:57:08.239 --> 0:57:11.440 the last holdouts into the nineties, but he just like 0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:15.960 retires in like the late nineties, and that's like basically 0:57:16.080 --> 0:57:17.480 ever all of them get rent out. 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:20.480 Uh, there's a good we'll talk about him later. There's 0:57:20.480 --> 0:57:21.520 there's another uh. 0:57:21.480 --> 0:57:24.760 Postcanesian economists named Frederick Lee who my friends estrange matter 0:57:24.840 --> 0:57:27.600 really like, who's an anarchist who's in this school, and 0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:31.360 he has like an excruciatingly detailed account of all of 0:57:31.400 --> 0:57:34.160 these economists getting runt out by the neoclassical people. And 0:57:34.280 --> 0:57:38.680 so you know, like neoclassical economists like in in some 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:43.480 sense they there there. Their strategy is a strategy of capitalism, 0:57:43.560 --> 0:57:46.240 which is like obviously we're not right here, but we 0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:49.720 have money and we have force. So we're going to 0:57:49.760 --> 0:57:53.960 defeat your ideas by simply destroying you all tightlightly actual 0:57:54.000 --> 0:57:54.800 physical force. 0:57:55.400 --> 0:57:59.520 So incredible, Yeah, the cultural revolution in economics. 0:58:00.120 --> 0:58:02.640 Yeah, but it's interesting because Harris Harris is writing this 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:05.760 in seventy eight, and in seventy eight, it's still the 0:58:05.840 --> 0:58:08.920 battle hasn't been settled yet, right, there's still kind of 0:58:09.040 --> 0:58:11.280 like the fight going on between like who is going 0:58:11.360 --> 0:58:14.080 to be like in control of economics? And I mean, 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:16.120 the you know, the answer is to Theokanzian is that 0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:17.240 the post Kansians lose. 0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:20.200 But you know that wasn't necesarily the case of this time. 0:58:20.360 --> 0:58:22.760 There's also a really weird artifact of this that I 0:58:22.840 --> 0:58:24.640 want to talk about a little bit, which is that, like, 0:58:25.640 --> 0:58:27.280 you know, so remember at the beginning of this, I 0:58:27.360 --> 0:58:29.680 said that that stupid economist person has said that it 0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:33.080 was neo Kandians versus post Kansians. Yeah, so those two 0:58:33.200 --> 0:58:36.560 groups are not the same thing. The post Kandians are 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:38.280 the people who we've been talking about this whole time, right, 0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:40.800 Like they're they're like they're basically neo Ricardans, right, They're 0:58:40.800 --> 0:58:44.400 they're like based on classical economics. The neo Kansians are 0:58:44.480 --> 0:58:47.000 just regular Kansians basically, but they had to change the 0:58:47.080 --> 0:58:49.840 math to be shittier and make themselves more right wing 0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:50.600 to like survive. 0:58:52.520 --> 0:58:55.760 She reads plain like John maynol Keynes and supply side economics. Yeah, 0:58:55.760 --> 0:58:57.080 if if you want to yeah, if you want to 0:58:57.160 --> 0:59:01.560 give back, I mean, go ahead. Fucking I am a historian, 0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:06.000 but it's a it differs from classical economics. I guess 0:59:06.040 --> 0:59:09.160 in the idea that the state can make interventions, am 0:59:09.200 --> 0:59:12.120 I ukotomby after as I fucked up? The state interventions 0:59:12.200 --> 0:59:14.960 can be beneficial for the economy, And it emerges like 0:59:15.080 --> 0:59:19.160 in the I guess post Great Depression, Like I guess 0:59:19.280 --> 0:59:22.000 maybe from the from like you know, the New Deal 0:59:22.080 --> 0:59:24.200 and these these and then post World War two, right, 0:59:24.320 --> 0:59:26.440 like it's very influential in the kind of build up 0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:28.400 after World War Two. The idea that like the state 0:59:28.440 --> 0:59:32.160 shouldn't necessarily be like what's happen Adam handed the invisible hand, 0:59:32.200 --> 0:59:34.600 the fucking invisible hand, maybe isn't killing it and we 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:35.880 needn't stead the hand of the state. 0:59:37.120 --> 0:59:38.960 Yeah, And I mean, well, you know, it's worth mentioning 0:59:39.000 --> 0:59:40.840 that like in Adam Smith, the hand of the state 0:59:41.000 --> 0:59:46.640 is explicitly God, sorry, exquisitely God. Unfortunately, unfortunately there was 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:48.720 no God to bail out the markets of the nineteen twenties. 0:59:49.000 --> 0:59:51.720 So Kids was like shit, yeah, And I mean, you know, 0:59:51.840 --> 0:59:53.880 he's like in sort of like more detail, like his 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.520 thing basically is about like he's he's obsessed with sort 0:59:57.520 --> 1:00:02.280 of like like like basically cyclically counteracting crises by using states, 1:00:02.320 --> 1:00:04.760 betting to like, you know, like his things basically is that, 1:00:04.840 --> 1:00:07.240 like capital will misallocate resources, you have to use the 1:00:07.320 --> 1:00:10.680 state to like kick the bastards into line, like the 1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:13.520 stable economy. And the problem is that by by the 1:00:13.600 --> 1:00:18.000 late seventies, the Kansians are in crisis because in in 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:20.480 original likea Kansian theory, it wasn't supposed to be possible 1:00:20.560 --> 1:00:22.960 for there to be both rising unemployment and rising inflation, 1:00:23.840 --> 1:00:26.480 but that was like happening over the entire world, and 1:00:26.560 --> 1:00:28.200 so they got kind of annihilated. And this is the 1:00:28.280 --> 1:00:30.480 thing that like the neoliberals used to like take power. 1:00:30.920 --> 1:00:34.600 And it's interesting because the post Kansians like they use 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:36.920 you know, and like the beginning of this book is 1:00:37.120 --> 1:00:40.000 a bit of like Kansian stuff. But then he just 1:00:40.120 --> 1:00:42.040 like you know, they go off and do other more 1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:44.800 interesting things. But it's very funny because because this is 1:00:44.880 --> 1:00:50.440 still seventy eight, he Harris calls himself a neo Kansian, 1:00:50.600 --> 1:00:53.440 and he calls all of his collaborators Theokansians because the 1:00:53.520 --> 1:00:55.840 real Neokansians hadn't like developed yet. 1:00:56.760 --> 1:00:59.960 Oh he's just trying to he's just trying to find 1:01:00.040 --> 1:01:02.040 can claim it, like he's trying to get his like 1:01:02.240 --> 1:01:03.280 stick in the ground. First. 1:01:03.800 --> 1:01:05.320 Yeah, well, but I mean that's the thing, like at 1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:08.080 that point they were the neo like the there. 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:09.560 There wasn't like there. 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:11.920 Their school had had as good acclaim to it as anyone. 1:01:12.200 --> 1:01:14.320 It's just that they got kicked out later by the 1:01:14.720 --> 1:01:16.600 sort of board. Like yeah, it makes sense, ones. 1:01:16.840 --> 1:01:17.040 Yeah. 1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:19.680 It's also a thing that's also important about this, for 1:01:19.840 --> 1:01:21.360 reasons we're gonna get to in a second, is that 1:01:22.000 --> 1:01:24.200 the post Kanesene tradition also has a lot of very 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:27.360 eclectic Marxists in it. We're gonna get the Joe and Robinson, 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:31.160 who's a very close collaborator of a very good Marxist philosopher. 1:01:31.200 --> 1:01:33.160 She's actually the person who like kicks off the Cambridge 1:01:33.160 --> 1:01:36.840 Captural Capital controversy. And she's she's a very kind of 1:01:37.000 --> 1:01:39.560 esoteric Marxist kind of in a similar way to uh 1:01:40.880 --> 1:01:42.920 to what Donald Harris is. But you know, you know 1:01:42.960 --> 1:01:44.840 what Marxism in theory isn't supposed to support. 1:01:46.400 --> 1:01:48.520 Would that be the sale of goods and services? 1:01:48.960 --> 1:01:49.120 Yeah? 1:01:49.160 --> 1:01:51.600 Yeah, it's product and services that support this podcast. We're 1:01:51.640 --> 1:02:06.880 distributing the amusing the price mechanism. Yeah, we're back. So yeah, 1:02:06.920 --> 1:02:08.640 there's there. There's also you know, there's got. 1:02:08.560 --> 1:02:11.400 A Galecki who's very important to this too, so that 1:02:11.520 --> 1:02:13.680 there are Marxists kind of on the ground of this, 1:02:13.920 --> 1:02:17.040 and they're they're trying to sort of their their goal 1:02:17.240 --> 1:02:19.200 is to try to like explain an economy that has 1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:22.160 monopolies in it, because Marxist theory sort of like assumed 1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:24.160 that there weren't and that there was like actual competition 1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:28.320 in markets and so part of what but this this 1:02:28.440 --> 1:02:30.480 comes to the sort of fundamental project of of what 1:02:30.640 --> 1:02:32.880 this book is about, which is that it's it's it's 1:02:32.880 --> 1:02:36.280 about developing a sort of growth model that you can 1:02:36.360 --> 1:02:38.480 sort of you know, that that that that accounts that 1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:40.720 that can be modified to account for all of these things. 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:42.680 So the initial thing that they're trying to produce. Is 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:44.720 is like a model of what they call a Golden age, 1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:49.360 which is a thing that's from Joan Robinson. Yeah, that's 1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:52.080 basically like it's the Golden age is a theoretical like 1:02:52.520 --> 1:02:55.960 economic configuration. You have, you have full employment, you have constant, 1:02:56.000 --> 1:02:59.320 stable economic growth, and the system can reproduce itself. Yeah, 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:04.360 and you know, I'm going to read a passage from 1:03:04.400 --> 1:03:06.160 this book so you can understand. Partially so you can 1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:09.160 because it's about this, right, and partially so you can understand, 1:03:09.400 --> 1:03:12.520 like this isn't even a particularly technical paragraph. 1:03:14.480 --> 1:03:16.880 We're talking about hit me. Steady state. 1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:20.080 Yeah, Golden age is also kind of similar thing to 1:03:20.120 --> 1:03:24.280 a concept called steady state economies he's writing about. A 1:03:24.360 --> 1:03:26.880 particular steady state is based on a given set of 1:03:27.000 --> 1:03:30.440 conditions and interrelations among them, a given rate of accumulation 1:03:30.520 --> 1:03:33.200 of capital, given rates of savings from the stream of 1:03:33.280 --> 1:03:36.000 net income, a given state of technological knowledge or rate 1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:39.280 of technological innovation, a given rate of increase of the 1:03:39.360 --> 1:03:42.400 labor force, and a given set of expectations. To ask 1:03:42.480 --> 1:03:45.760 whether such a situation exists is to ask whether the 1:03:45.840 --> 1:03:50.040 conditions which define it are mutually compatible or self consistent. 1:03:51.040 --> 1:03:53.440 So this is Basically what he's doing, right, is you 1:03:53.520 --> 1:03:56.960 can you can build these models of like these sort 1:03:56.960 --> 1:03:59.360 of Kanzian models that like and I started a post 1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:02.920 Kansian model that you know, if you if you, if 1:04:02.960 --> 1:04:05.040 you set up all the elements right, you can theoretically 1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:08.240 generate stable growth. But then you know, obviously his thing 1:04:08.320 --> 1:04:11.600 is like this doesn't work, right, Like, no, no, no 1:04:11.720 --> 1:04:14.600 economy will ever generate this because there's only really like 1:04:15.440 --> 1:04:18.320 it's extremely hard to actually get you know, your sort 1:04:18.360 --> 1:04:22.760 of like input levels and your technological development whatever the 1:04:22.800 --> 1:04:25.440 fuck like at the same rate to do this. But 1:04:25.600 --> 1:04:28.760 he's he's using this as basically the model for as 1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:30.560 like as like a sort of toy model that you 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:33.000 can then sort of warp to fit the rest of 1:04:33.080 --> 1:04:37.480 the the rest of the capitalist economy. But in order 1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:39.640 to do this, he has to generate a crisis theory. 1:04:39.680 --> 1:04:41.360 And this is where he just like suddenly all the 1:04:41.440 --> 1:04:43.480 marks comes back in and he's like, so his he's 1:04:43.640 --> 1:04:45.080 the product he's trying to do is he's trying to 1:04:45.200 --> 1:04:48.439 use a post Kinesian model of how economic growth works 1:04:48.480 --> 1:04:50.760 and then and then combine that with Marxist crisis theory 1:04:51.440 --> 1:04:55.880 to produce basically a model of you know, what, what 1:04:56.080 --> 1:05:01.040 kinds of conditions in an economy will cause like crisis state? Now, ooka, 1:05:01.040 --> 1:05:02.680 the every thing is very weird about this, right, It's 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:07.640 like he doesn't do normal, Like there's like an entire 1:05:07.800 --> 1:05:10.160 school of Marxist crisis theory, and he doesn't do it. 1:05:10.320 --> 1:05:14.080 He instead like rewrites a bunch of Marxist equations and 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:17.720 then comes up with his own like version of crisis 1:05:17.800 --> 1:05:20.320 theory of like different kinds of crises. And I like what, 1:05:21.200 --> 1:05:24.120 it's so weird, it's so baffling. 1:05:25.600 --> 1:05:27.640 Maybe he wanted to make him make his mock you know. 1:05:28.240 --> 1:05:30.720 Yeah, I guess it's weird because it's like this whole 1:05:30.720 --> 1:05:32.400 thing is interesting, but it's like I don't think anyone 1:05:32.480 --> 1:05:33.360 ever followed up on it. 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:36.959 Really, right, It's just like this dead end of academic theory. 1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:41.200 Yeah, well, I think it's also you know, I mean 1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:43.600 it's partially like a rude Nott travel thing. It's partially 1:05:43.720 --> 1:05:47.200 because as as the post Kanesians went on, they got 1:05:47.280 --> 1:05:49.600 less and less Marxist. So like a lot of the 1:05:49.640 --> 1:05:51.760 original people are like Seraphison a Marxist, but like a 1:05:51.760 --> 1:05:53.760 lot of the original like Joan Robinson is definitely a Marxist, 1:05:53.800 --> 1:05:55.360 but they get like less and less over time, and 1:05:55.440 --> 1:05:57.360 so there's less interest in kind of like folding in 1:05:57.480 --> 1:05:58.160 Marxism to it. 1:05:59.000 --> 1:06:01.280 Yeah, so he's losing interest in that. Yeah. 1:06:01.680 --> 1:06:03.439 But this is where we get to the final question, 1:06:03.560 --> 1:06:05.600 like is he a Marxist? And my answer is I 1:06:05.640 --> 1:06:08.040 don't even in even in sixty eight and seventy eight, 1:06:08.080 --> 1:06:10.280 which is pretty early, I don't think he's a Marxist. 1:06:10.280 --> 1:06:11.440 I don't think he's a Marxist in this book. I 1:06:11.480 --> 1:06:14.360 think he's using Marxist theory, but I don't think he's 1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:17.200 actually a Marxist, like politically. And the reason I don't 1:06:17.200 --> 1:06:20.280 think this is because, you know, so we talk about 1:06:20.600 --> 1:06:23.240 surplus value, right, the surplus value is supposed to be 1:06:23.320 --> 1:06:26.120 this value it's extracted, but it's the magnitude of it. 1:06:26.240 --> 1:06:28.120 One of the things like how much value you extract, 1:06:28.200 --> 1:06:29.919 like how many hours of the day you can steal 1:06:29.960 --> 1:06:32.560 from a worker, depends on how many hours of the 1:06:32.640 --> 1:06:34.680 day you'd need to pay them for in order for 1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:38.120 them to survive. Right, And one of the crucial things 1:06:38.160 --> 1:06:40.400 about this is that that and then Marx is very 1:06:40.440 --> 1:06:43.000 explicit about this that rate of like how much you 1:06:43.040 --> 1:06:46.160 need to pay them to survive is determined by social struggle, right, 1:06:46.280 --> 1:06:49.040 because like you know what what a worker quote unquote 1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:51.880 needs to survive in like in different places in context 1:06:52.000 --> 1:06:54.680 is different, and you can fight in order for that 1:06:54.800 --> 1:06:58.520 rate to be higher. And this is like an incredibly 1:06:58.640 --> 1:07:02.080 basic part of Marxism, right, It's the part of Marxism 1:07:02.320 --> 1:07:05.800 where the economy is also determed, like the function of 1:07:05.800 --> 1:07:07.880 the capitalist economy is produced by class struggle. 1:07:08.400 --> 1:07:10.960 This is like this is like this is even one. 1:07:11.160 --> 1:07:14.320 This is Marxism zero zero zero, like this this is 1:07:14.360 --> 1:07:16.200 this is the ship they hand you on the flow 1:07:16.240 --> 1:07:19.040 on like your fucking tour of Marxism school before you 1:07:19.480 --> 1:07:20.360 holding classes. 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:22.640 Yeah, it's so when you get that very you know, 1:07:22.680 --> 1:07:24.880 there's very short introductions you can get where it's like 1:07:25.920 --> 1:07:28.360 like a tiny little booklet that explains so like the 1:07:29.040 --> 1:07:31.320 sene Quan on the little elements of things. 1:07:31.920 --> 1:07:35.720 Yeah, and Harris writes pages and pages and pages of 1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:38.720 stuff about like about about like the rate of surplus 1:07:38.800 --> 1:07:42.200 value extraction. And do you know how many times he 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:47.040 mentions class fucking once in like and it's it's like 1:07:47.120 --> 1:07:49.440 the thirty eight thing he mentions after like the technical 1:07:49.480 --> 1:07:52.720 composition of capital and like it's all other crisis, Like 1:07:52.760 --> 1:07:55.480 it's all of this ship and he just doesn't mention it. 1:07:55.600 --> 1:07:57.480 And this is this is the thing that like fundamentally 1:07:57.560 --> 1:08:05.560 has convinced me that what what he's doing isn't substantively Marxism. 1:08:05.600 --> 1:08:11.720 He's using the tools of merchistpolitical economy, but he's he's 1:08:11.840 --> 1:08:15.200 he's he's viewing capitalism as purely a sort of like 1:08:15.360 --> 1:08:18.080 top down thing, right as and not something that's actually 1:08:18.160 --> 1:08:20.000 like you know, like he he acknowledges there are classes, 1:08:20.600 --> 1:08:24.439 but he doesn't see them as actors at all. 1:08:25.200 --> 1:08:29.000 Yeah, so like the struggle between the classes is is And. 1:08:28.960 --> 1:08:30.360 It's funny because he has this thing that he calls 1:08:30.400 --> 1:08:32.880 the rate of exploitation, right, which is this calculation of 1:08:32.920 --> 1:08:35.920 sort of surplus value extraction. But he's like, well, obviously 1:08:35.920 --> 1:08:37.439 because the rate is going to change over time due 1:08:37.439 --> 1:08:38.920 to the condition to struggle. But he's like an Oscar, 1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:44.080 I'm just putting his one number, like it's just like right, yeah. 1:08:45.720 --> 1:08:47.240 It I'm too lazy to figure that out. And I'm like, 1:08:47.600 --> 1:08:50.000 what what are you doing? Like you this is this 1:08:50.120 --> 1:08:52.720 is the basis of Marxism. Yeah, I mean, maybe he 1:08:52.840 --> 1:08:55.360 was just an economics guy, but even still no, yeah, 1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:55.720 this is. 1:08:55.760 --> 1:08:57.120 This is this is the thing that I've been sort 1:08:57.120 --> 1:09:01.120 of realizing because one of the issues Sarafha is that, 1:09:01.360 --> 1:09:04.160 you know, Sarafa is a genius economist, right, he is 1:09:04.360 --> 1:09:08.360 genuinely and unbelievably brilliant. But he's also a pure economist. 1:09:09.280 --> 1:09:11.559 Like here's here is how the start of his most 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:14.639 influential book, Production of Commodities and Means of Commodities starts. 1:09:16.160 --> 1:09:19.400 Let us consider an extremely simple society which produces just 1:09:19.560 --> 1:09:23.160 enough to maintain itself. Commodities are produced by separate industries 1:09:23.200 --> 1:09:24.880 and are exchanged for one another, et cetera. 1:09:24.920 --> 1:09:25.240 Culture. 1:09:25.240 --> 1:09:29.720 So, okay, what is he he he he just has 1:09:29.840 --> 1:09:32.439 like created a mental model. And this is the basis 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:34.679 of like of his major economic theories. Him just creating 1:09:34.680 --> 1:09:39.080 a mental model where somehow, out of nowhere has appeared 1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:42.640 a simple society that produces like one commodity, which is 1:09:42.720 --> 1:09:46.000 like just enough commodities, separaties in the station. And you know, 1:09:46.640 --> 1:09:48.800 if you think about sort of like Marx, right, Marx 1:09:48.880 --> 1:09:52.519 is also a sociologist, right. He cares about you know, 1:09:52.920 --> 1:09:55.400 like like the actual point of production, right, he cares 1:09:55.439 --> 1:09:57.800 about the production process. He cares about the sort of 1:09:57.920 --> 1:09:59.960 like like that there are he cares that there are 1:10:00.160 --> 1:10:03.560 workers that are doing the production. He cares about the 1:10:03.640 --> 1:10:06.639 sort of historical conditions that created you know, these these things. 1:10:06.640 --> 1:10:09.879 Don't like as Kamala Harris's mom, this is actually very important. 1:10:10.160 --> 1:10:11.800 The Kamala Harris you didn't just follow out of the 1:10:11.800 --> 1:10:13.640 coconut tree exist in the context of all that came 1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:16.760 before you. That's Kamala Harris's mom, who is like, I think, 1:10:16.800 --> 1:10:20.679 a better Marxist than Noel Harris's and Harris will occasionally, 1:10:20.760 --> 1:10:22.800 like Donald Harris will occasionally gesture to this one. He'd 1:10:22.840 --> 1:10:24.320 be like, well, yeah, obviously this is all determined by 1:10:24.560 --> 1:10:26.880 historical conditions, and then he just has no interest in 1:10:27.000 --> 1:10:28.640 ever pursuing any of that. He's just like, yeah, this 1:10:28.720 --> 1:10:30.559 is we left a later book that he never wrote. 1:10:31.000 --> 1:10:33.200 And what you get to is is this this is 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:35.680 like a real issue with sort of Postkansianism is that 1:10:35.960 --> 1:10:39.360 it doesn't have like Marxism at least in theory, has 1:10:39.400 --> 1:10:43.040 politics embedded into it. Postkansianism kind of doesn't it. Just 1:10:44.240 --> 1:10:45.800 like I have a lot of friends who I like, 1:10:45.920 --> 1:10:48.400 I deeply care about who are Postkansians, right, they are 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:52.000 political like you know, they're they're leftists because they're leftists, right, 1:10:52.320 --> 1:10:54.600 Like it's it's not something that's an automatic generation of 1:10:54.640 --> 1:10:56.320 your theory, and you know you can kind of write 1:10:56.360 --> 1:10:57.960 it that way, right, Like this is the thing about 1:10:57.960 --> 1:11:00.519 Frederick Lee, who's the sort of the a lot of 1:11:00.600 --> 1:11:02.200 my like a lot of the Traine writers people sort 1:11:02.200 --> 1:11:04.920 of like learn economics from, like I mean indirectly, but 1:11:05.040 --> 1:11:07.200 like through his book. But you know Lee Lee is 1:11:07.240 --> 1:11:09.000 a committed anarchist and that shows up in his work. 1:11:09.040 --> 1:11:11.720 But he has to like add that in pure like 1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:15.320 pure Sarraffa by itself, you could theoretically like run any 1:11:15.360 --> 1:11:16.439 form of government you want with it. 1:11:17.040 --> 1:11:17.200 Right. 1:11:18.840 --> 1:11:21.400 And I think I've been vindicated in this whole process 1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:24.240 because Donald Harris writes a couple more books on one 1:11:24.320 --> 1:11:26.960 of which is a book that is like commissioned by 1:11:26.960 --> 1:11:27.920 the Jamaican government. 1:11:29.240 --> 1:11:34.200 Okay, he's Jamaican descent or he was born himself directly 1:11:34.520 --> 1:11:35.320 in Jamaica, you. 1:11:35.320 --> 1:11:36.920 Know, Like he's just like he's he's Jamaica and he 1:11:36.960 --> 1:11:41.080 lives in Jamaica. Okay, I think I think he currently 1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:41.719 lives in Jamaica. 1:11:41.720 --> 1:11:43.720 I'm pretty sure. Yeah, And this came to the US 1:11:43.800 --> 1:11:46.360 for his graduate like for his academic yeah. 1:11:46.400 --> 1:11:46.479 One. 1:11:46.600 --> 1:11:47.880 One he lived in the US for a long time 1:11:47.920 --> 1:11:49.360 because he was at Stamford, but then he kind of 1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:51.799 like left and one I think went back at Jamaica. 1:11:52.680 --> 1:11:53.960 I'm good. I'm going to read. 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.439 So he wrote a book called a Growth This is 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:59.360 in twenty eleven, A Growth Inducement Strategy for Jamaica and 1:11:59.400 --> 1:12:02.719 the shortened term. I'm going to read you the bullet 1:12:02.720 --> 1:12:08.960 points under a section called guiding Principles. Okay, unleash entrepreneurial 1:12:09.080 --> 1:12:13.000 dynamism by unlocking latent wealth, tied up and idle assets. 1:12:13.479 --> 1:12:18.160 Infrastructure investments is catalysm for job creation through strengthening resiliency 1:12:18.280 --> 1:12:21.560 of the built in natural environments. Build an innovative and 1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:25.640 competitive modern economy of big and small firms by strengthening 1:12:25.680 --> 1:12:29.719 business networks and removing supply side constraints. Modernize and improve 1:12:29.760 --> 1:12:33.679 the efficiency of government. Social inclusion through community renewal, expand 1:12:33.720 --> 1:12:37.320 as south agency in equity and proactive partnership between government 1:12:37.360 --> 1:12:41.599 and private sector ALSOSO A giant thing in this about crime. 1:12:42.040 --> 1:12:45.240 So what has happened is that these two people have 1:12:45.520 --> 1:12:48.560 circled back around and they now have the same politics 1:12:49.040 --> 1:12:52.599 which is like tough on crime, austerity. 1:12:53.760 --> 1:13:00.400 Public private partnership, fucking infrastructure spending. Yeah, they circled back around. 1:13:00.400 --> 1:13:03.400 It's funny because the person writing the economists was like, oh, yeah, 1:13:03.400 --> 1:13:03.840 they actually have. 1:13:03.880 --> 1:13:05.080 Circles back around because they're a bouth. 1:13:05.080 --> 1:13:07.280 They're both concerned about wealth inequality, and this book is 1:13:07.400 --> 1:13:10.080 not concerned about wealth inequality at all. Like, that's not 1:13:10.200 --> 1:13:13.160 that's not what it's about. It's about like capital accumulation, 1:13:13.560 --> 1:13:16.200 and you know, it's sort of about distribution of surplus, 1:13:16.600 --> 1:13:20.160 but it's it doesn't it's concerned with the distribution of surplus. 1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:24.960 Is that Seraphan economics like doesn't have a fixed race 1:13:25.200 --> 1:13:26.840 like way for it to be distributed. It can be 1:13:26.880 --> 1:13:29.880 distributed in an enormous number of ways, and the trick 1:13:29.960 --> 1:13:31.519 is finding out how it's actually done. 1:13:32.920 --> 1:13:33.080 Right. 1:13:33.560 --> 1:13:35.640 Yeah, there's a point in here. 1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:37.240 There's a point in this book too that like is 1:13:37.280 --> 1:13:39.560 the thing that's like really first struck me about it. 1:13:39.560 --> 1:13:42.840 Where he's talking about how he's talking about surplus value 1:13:42.840 --> 1:13:44.880 and he's talking about how this is an objective measure 1:13:44.920 --> 1:13:50.200 of exploitation. But then he goes and he says, contrary 1:13:50.280 --> 1:13:54.360 to vulgar readings, this does not actually indicate who deserves 1:13:54.560 --> 1:13:55.080 like it doesn't. 1:13:55.080 --> 1:13:59.160 It's not it's not a moral argument about who should 1:13:59.200 --> 1:14:04.120 have the value that's and stolen. And this this right here, this, 1:14:04.680 --> 1:14:05.519 this is the roade. 1:14:05.640 --> 1:14:07.200 This is the road that is going to lead this 1:14:07.400 --> 1:14:10.240 man from a kind of interesting book about like the 1:14:10.360 --> 1:14:14.160 dynamics of economic growth and like building economic models and 1:14:14.200 --> 1:14:15.840 like using marks in theory to sort of make it 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:19.680 work to straight up I writing investment documents for the 1:14:19.800 --> 1:14:20.799 Jamaican government. 1:14:21.560 --> 1:14:25.680 Yeah, Like he seemed like it's very like in a way, 1:14:25.840 --> 1:14:28.120 like you know, there are looks like edmller Bands Stabs 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:30.040 and Marxist right, but like it reminds me a lot 1:14:30.080 --> 1:14:32.600 of like the New Labor thing in the UK, you know, 1:14:32.640 --> 1:14:34.720 which grew out of a party which genuinely had a 1:14:34.720 --> 1:14:38.600 commitment to socialism and became like, yeah, this sort of 1:14:38.880 --> 1:14:43.440 very neoliberal like like sort of really like peak neoliberal 1:14:43.560 --> 1:14:47.240 kind of. Yeah. That there was some Kinesian influence, I guess, 1:14:48.080 --> 1:14:50.720 but certainly nothing the one would call combus or even 1:14:50.760 --> 1:14:51.520 really socialist. 1:14:52.360 --> 1:14:55.559 Yeah. Yeah, And I don't know, it's it's sad because 1:14:55.560 --> 1:14:58.120 it's like because the interesting thing about that. 1:14:58.200 --> 1:15:01.960 Was twenty twelve, he wrote The Growth in strategy fuck me, okay, 1:15:02.840 --> 1:15:03.280 in the game. 1:15:04.040 --> 1:15:06.120 Yeah, but he's still the game in the sense that 1:15:06.200 --> 1:15:12.320 he's doing like this is you know, reading that it 1:15:12.520 --> 1:15:14.439 very much felt like I was reading like a modern 1:15:14.520 --> 1:15:19.080 Chinese five year plan, exceptly it was like less weird slogans. 1:15:19.720 --> 1:15:21.639 Yeah, I mean it reads like a like a fucking 1:15:21.920 --> 1:15:25.760 like a new labor policy document, like a think tank. 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:29.160 It's it's a lot of like a analyst guy think 1:15:29.240 --> 1:15:33.240 tank guy kind of talk right, like, which was extremely 1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:34.920 like it looks like he left stand for in the 1:15:35.000 --> 1:15:38.559 late nineties, which is when this ship was fucking everywhere, right, 1:15:38.720 --> 1:15:42.680 Like what is he called Joseph Stiglitz? Is that right? 1:15:43.280 --> 1:15:46.400 And like yeah, yeah, yeah, like yeah, this was the 1:15:46.960 --> 1:15:49.680 economic fucking theory of the day. You know, this was 1:15:49.840 --> 1:15:53.840 very popular then. But it is absolutely just like this. 1:15:54.040 --> 1:15:57.920 This is not like black Panther, black panther inflected Marxism. 1:15:58.000 --> 1:16:01.599 This is not what I trists by the economists here. 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:05.400 Yeah, no, this is this is this is something genuinely 1:16:05.560 --> 1:16:09.320 very sad because it doesn't have to go that. We 1:16:09.800 --> 1:16:11.760 know that it's possible to like do this kind of 1:16:11.800 --> 1:16:14.320 economics not be like this. Because Frederick Lee was an 1:16:14.320 --> 1:16:17.479 IWW member until the day he died, Like he's he's 1:16:17.600 --> 1:16:19.840 like out there to occupy given like like the first 1:16:19.920 --> 1:16:22.000 days of all Like he's out there, like there are 1:16:22.080 --> 1:16:24.400 videos of him giving speeches to crowds that occupy right, 1:16:24.520 --> 1:16:28.000 like you don't have to do this, but he did. 1:16:28.360 --> 1:16:31.840 And this is also like, you know, I think that 1:16:32.120 --> 1:16:34.360 this kind of political trajectory is kind of also you 1:16:34.680 --> 1:16:37.280 can see in it like how his child, even though 1:16:37.320 --> 1:16:39.200 he wasn't in her life, Munch is going to end 1:16:39.280 --> 1:16:41.799 up as the person she is. And I think that's 1:16:41.840 --> 1:16:44.000 why that's my final conclusion from this is he's. 1:16:43.880 --> 1:16:49.639 Not a Marxist and him and his child are libs. Yeah, 1:16:49.960 --> 1:16:53.600 these are things that Tanya does to motherfucker. They you 1:16:53.680 --> 1:16:55.200 start to hang out with a bunch of other rich 1:16:55.240 --> 1:16:56.919 people who have ten and you'd be in too identify 1:16:57.040 --> 1:16:57.519 with him and. 1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:02.200 Yeah, stripped you away from who you Yeah, so this 1:17:02.439 --> 1:17:05.920 has been It could happen here. Don't become a daughter 1:17:06.040 --> 1:17:07.200 and capitalist bastard in. 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:11.639 Your old age, yeah or your young age. Yeah. 1:17:32.479 --> 1:17:35.320 Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. My name 1:17:35.439 --> 1:17:37.840 is Sharene and today is the first part of a 1:17:37.880 --> 1:17:40.280 two part series where I'm going to give you all 1:17:40.400 --> 1:17:43.800 a general Palestine update and also talk about how Joe 1:17:43.840 --> 1:17:47.280 Biden's legacy that will endure long after the end of 1:17:47.400 --> 1:17:51.120 his shitty presidency and his life is first and foremost 1:17:51.280 --> 1:17:56.200 the genocide in Gaza. On Sunday, July twenty first, Biden 1:17:56.280 --> 1:17:59.160 said that he was ending his presidential re election campaign 1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:04.400 after a week's pressure from party officials, donors, Democratic Congress members, voters, 1:18:04.520 --> 1:18:09.559 and pro Palestinian organizers and advocacy groups. This move comes 1:18:09.720 --> 1:18:13.800 months after organizers led a nationwide campaign to vote uncommitted 1:18:14.000 --> 1:18:17.640 during Democratic primary elections to push Biden to end his 1:18:17.760 --> 1:18:21.400 unconditional support for Israel during his genocide in Gaza or 1:18:21.840 --> 1:18:25.519 risk losing their vote in the general election. In several states, 1:18:26.000 --> 1:18:30.360 uncommitted or no preference received far more votes than other 1:18:30.479 --> 1:18:36.439 candidates challenging Biden, and so Biden dropped out surprise. Ever 1:18:36.560 --> 1:18:40.519 since his announcement to withdraw, Democratic politicians and commentators in 1:18:40.560 --> 1:18:43.639 the US have come out to heat praise and laud 1:18:43.680 --> 1:18:47.240 the president's character, and draw attention to all his contributions 1:18:47.280 --> 1:18:49.960 over the years. None of that matters to me, though, 1:18:50.000 --> 1:18:52.439 and it shouldn't matter to you, because for me and 1:18:52.520 --> 1:18:55.880 many others, Biden will be remembered for nothing else than 1:18:55.920 --> 1:18:59.800 his support for Israeli crimes. But let's hear from our 1:18:59.880 --> 1:19:04.479 us ridiculous public servants, shall we. Senate Majority leader Chuck 1:19:04.520 --> 1:19:07.360 Schumer said, Joe Biden has not only been a great 1:19:07.479 --> 1:19:10.960 president and a great legislative leader, but he's truly an 1:19:10.960 --> 1:19:14.240 amazing human being. His decision, of course, was not easy, 1:19:14.560 --> 1:19:17.000 but he once again put his country, his party, and 1:19:17.160 --> 1:19:22.240 our future first. House Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries called the 1:19:22.280 --> 1:19:25.960 president quote one of the most accomplished and consequential leaders 1:19:26.000 --> 1:19:30.880 in American history. Representative Maxine Waters called Biden a kind 1:19:31.000 --> 1:19:35.679 and decent man. Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi praised his vision, 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:39.679 values and leadership. She said in a statement, his legacy 1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:42.200 of vision, values in leadership make him one of the 1:19:42.280 --> 1:19:46.519 most consequential presidents in American history. She also called Biden 1:19:46.720 --> 1:19:50.280 quote a patriotic American who has always put our country first. 1:19:50.880 --> 1:19:53.080 I did find it a little funny that multiple people 1:19:53.280 --> 1:19:57.280 described Biden as consequential, because out of all the words 1:19:57.320 --> 1:19:59.920 you can choose to describe him, that one doesn't necess 1:20:00.000 --> 1:20:03.160 Saily screamed positive to me, so that did amuse me 1:20:03.400 --> 1:20:06.960 quite a bit. Former President Barack Obama issued a statement 1:20:07.000 --> 1:20:09.759 acknowledging the difficulty of the decision that Biden faced. 1:20:10.240 --> 1:20:10.559 Quote. 1:20:10.800 --> 1:20:13.160 For him to look at the political landscape and decide 1:20:13.200 --> 1:20:15.760 that he should pass the torch to a new nominee 1:20:16.160 --> 1:20:18.479 is surely one of the toughest in his life. But 1:20:18.600 --> 1:20:21.280 I know he wouldn't make this decision unless he believed 1:20:21.320 --> 1:20:24.080 it was right for America. It's a testament to Joe 1:20:24.120 --> 1:20:27.839 Biden's love of country, an historic example of a genuine 1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:31.479 public servant once again putting the interests of the American 1:20:31.560 --> 1:20:34.799 people ahead of his own that future generations of leaders 1:20:34.920 --> 1:20:39.360 will do well to follow. Gandhi Audiada. Democratic governors also 1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:43.040 latted Biden. Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer called him a great 1:20:43.120 --> 1:20:45.639 public servant who knows better than anyone what it takes 1:20:45.680 --> 1:20:49.679 to defeat Donald Trump. California Governor Gavin Newsom thanked Biden, 1:20:49.960 --> 1:20:54.719 calling him a quote extraordinary history making president. Kentucky Governor 1:20:54.760 --> 1:20:58.760 Andy Basheer said Biden's decision is quote in the best 1:20:58.840 --> 1:21:02.760 interest of our country and our party. Several Democrats who 1:21:02.800 --> 1:21:05.679 had publicly called on Biden to step aside also issued 1:21:05.720 --> 1:21:10.719 statements praising the president's decision. Representative Jerry Nadler said, Joe's 1:21:10.720 --> 1:21:13.880 announcement today reflects what we've known all along. He is 1:21:13.920 --> 1:21:17.040 an American patriot who was willing to put America's interests 1:21:17.120 --> 1:21:21.160 over his own. Senator SHIROD. Brown from Ohio thanked Biden 1:21:21.240 --> 1:21:24.760 for his years of committed service, and his son Hunter 1:21:24.920 --> 1:21:28.320 Biden issued a statement lauding his father as a selfless leader, 1:21:28.640 --> 1:21:32.160 writing he is unique in public life today in that 1:21:32.280 --> 1:21:35.000 there is no distance between Joe Biden the man and 1:21:35.160 --> 1:21:40.080 Joe Biden the public servant of the last fifty four years. Well, yikes. 1:21:40.720 --> 1:21:43.320 I also wanted to mention an end with how his wife, 1:21:43.640 --> 1:21:46.360 the First Lady Joe Biden responded, which was with a 1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:51.040 heart's emoji in response to his announcement on X. But 1:21:51.160 --> 1:21:54.200 while political leaders and I guess his family showered Biden 1:21:54.280 --> 1:21:58.679 with compliments, bombs continued to rain down on Gaza, killing 1:21:58.800 --> 1:22:01.720 dozens to add on to the nearly forty thousand Palestinians 1:22:01.800 --> 1:22:05.960 killed and sparking another wave of mass displacement in ran Yunis. 1:22:06.800 --> 1:22:10.080 For many Palestinian rights advocates, the carnage and abuses in 1:22:10.160 --> 1:22:14.000 Gaza will define Biden's place in history books, especially as 1:22:14.040 --> 1:22:17.479 the US remains steadfast in its support of Israel's onslaught 1:22:17.560 --> 1:22:21.720 on the Palestinian land. Nadine Kaswani, an organizer with the 1:22:21.760 --> 1:22:25.840 Palestine advocacy group Within Our Lifetime, said, nine months of 1:22:25.920 --> 1:22:28.880 saying genocide Joe has got to go, he finally got 1:22:28.920 --> 1:22:32.840 the message, but not before committing a heinous genocide against 1:22:32.840 --> 1:22:36.600 the Palestinian people. I bet Eyub, the executive director of 1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:40.840 the American Arab Anti Discrimination Committee the ADC, said He'll 1:22:40.880 --> 1:22:44.280 be remembered for the hundreds of thousands killed, injured and 1:22:44.439 --> 1:22:48.160 displaced in Gaza. There is no way around it. Genocide 1:22:48.240 --> 1:22:51.760 Joe is what he's going to be remembered as. And 1:22:51.840 --> 1:22:54.120 before continuing to shit on Biden, because trust me, I 1:22:54.160 --> 1:22:56.160 would love to do that, let's talk about what is 1:22:56.240 --> 1:23:01.000 currently happening in Gaza since Israel's genocide Gaza started on 1:23:01.080 --> 1:23:05.000 October seventh, while really escalated starting October seventh, because the 1:23:05.040 --> 1:23:08.519 genocide of the Palestinian people has been ongoing since Israel's 1:23:08.560 --> 1:23:11.720 inception in nineteen forty eight. But since October seventh and 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:15.040 well before that, Biden has offered the government of Israeli 1:23:15.080 --> 1:23:19.559 Prime Minister Benjamin and Yahoo unconditional military and diplomatic support. 1:23:20.400 --> 1:23:23.760 Only once did Biden withhold a shipment of bombs to 1:23:23.880 --> 1:23:28.320 Israel over humanitarian concerns, and even then he released part 1:23:28.400 --> 1:23:31.360 of that cargo a couple months later amid pressure from 1:23:31.600 --> 1:23:35.839 n Yahoo. Israel's genocide meanwhile has killed at least thirty 1:23:35.920 --> 1:23:41.200 nine thousand Palestinians, displaced hundreds of thousands, and fueled a 1:23:41.320 --> 1:23:44.840 man made famine, and also has destroyed nearly all of 1:23:44.920 --> 1:23:49.120 the territory. United Nations experts and other observers have outright 1:23:49.240 --> 1:23:51.880 called what is happening in Gaza as a textbook case 1:23:51.960 --> 1:23:56.200 of genocide, and the cumulative effects of Israel's genocide could 1:23:56.360 --> 1:23:59.120 mean that the true death toll is much much more. 1:24:00.080 --> 1:24:02.599 Ordering to a study recently published from the journal Lancet, 1:24:03.280 --> 1:24:05.960 the death toll could reach more than one hundred and 1:24:06.080 --> 1:24:10.320 eighty six thousand people. The study pointed out that the 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:13.400 death toll is likely higher because the official death toll 1:24:13.479 --> 1:24:16.880 does not take into account the thousands of dead buried 1:24:16.960 --> 1:24:20.880 under rubble and indirect deaths due to destruction of health facilities, 1:24:21.160 --> 1:24:26.720 food distribution systems, and other public infrastructure. Conflicts have indirect 1:24:26.800 --> 1:24:30.439 health implications beyond the direct harm from violence, the study said, 1:24:30.760 --> 1:24:34.080 and even if the God's genocide ends immediately, it will 1:24:34.160 --> 1:24:37.880 continue to cause many indirect deaths in the coming months 1:24:37.960 --> 1:24:41.960 and years through things like disease. The study said. The 1:24:42.000 --> 1:24:44.519 death toll is expected to be far larger given that 1:24:44.680 --> 1:24:48.520 much of God's infrastructure has been destroyed. There are shortages 1:24:48.600 --> 1:24:52.760 of food, water, shelter medicine. The United Nations Relief and 1:24:52.880 --> 1:24:57.120 Works Agency for Palestine Refugees UNRA has also seen its 1:24:57.200 --> 1:25:02.880 funding cut. Israel's relentless bombs has collapsed Gaza's health care infrastructure, 1:25:03.200 --> 1:25:06.519 and the destruction of Gaza's water infrastructure in particular is 1:25:06.680 --> 1:25:09.640 more than just a little significant. One reason for this 1:25:10.160 --> 1:25:14.479 is that Israel just reintroduced polio to Palestinians, but of 1:25:14.600 --> 1:25:19.240 course Israel's only providing vaccinations to the Israeli army, and 1:25:19.360 --> 1:25:23.120 this is according to Herot's Polio is a fecal oral 1:25:23.200 --> 1:25:26.880 disease and infections can be linked to contaminated and poor 1:25:26.960 --> 1:25:30.840 sewage systems, and it can lead to paralysis. On June 1:25:30.840 --> 1:25:34.200 twenty third, twenty twenty four, samples were collected from two 1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:38.000 environmental surveillance sites in kan Uness and Dead and Badach. 1:25:38.560 --> 1:25:43.400 Polio variant two was found in six wastewater samples. According 1:25:43.439 --> 1:25:48.160 to the Polio Global Eradication Initiative, currently only sixteen of 1:25:48.240 --> 1:25:52.080 the thirty six hospitals are partially functional and forty five 1:25:52.280 --> 1:25:55.120 out of one hundred and five primary health care facilities 1:25:55.160 --> 1:26:00.400 are operational. The impact on health systems insecurity, in excessive ability, 1:26:00.479 --> 1:26:04.439 population displacement, and the shortages of medical supplies, coupled with 1:26:04.640 --> 1:26:08.840 poor quality of water and weakened sanitation, have contributed to 1:26:09.040 --> 1:26:13.520 routine immunization rates and an increased risk of many vaccine 1:26:13.560 --> 1:26:18.439 preventable diseases, including polio. The World Health Organization considers there 1:26:18.520 --> 1:26:21.040 to be a high risk of spread of polio within 1:26:21.160 --> 1:26:25.599 Gaza and internationally, particularly given the impact that the current 1:26:25.680 --> 1:26:30.280 genocide continues to have on public health services, and even 1:26:30.320 --> 1:26:33.479 if vaccines were able to be given to Palestinians in Gaza, 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:37.559 the continued bombing and a decimated health care system, coupled 1:26:37.640 --> 1:26:41.960 with the intentional devastation of water and sanitation infrastructure, would 1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:47.440 render the vaccines close to useless without an immediate ceasefire. 1:26:47.640 --> 1:26:51.680 The threat from polio being reintroduced in Gaza will disproportionately 1:26:51.760 --> 1:26:56.360 affect Palestinian babies and eventually Israeli babies as well. In 1:26:56.479 --> 1:27:00.479 November twenty twenty three, the World Health Organization warn Israel 1:27:00.600 --> 1:27:05.000 of diseases spreading due to Israel's indiscriminate bombing and attack 1:27:05.120 --> 1:27:08.360 on health care infrastructure. And then on July twenty second, 1:27:08.400 --> 1:27:11.760 twenty twenty four, three days after the news came out 1:27:11.800 --> 1:27:15.519 about polio being reintroduced to Gaza by Israel, the Israeli 1:27:15.600 --> 1:27:20.200 Parliament voted to declare UNRA a terrorist organization and UNRA 1:27:20.479 --> 1:27:25.360 is a key partner in vaccine campaign distribution. With this 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:29.360 and with many other things, Israel has shown its genocidal 1:27:29.439 --> 1:27:34.160 intent calculating the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza, because 1:27:34.200 --> 1:27:38.080 if there is any war on Gaza, it's an epidemiological war, 1:27:38.479 --> 1:27:43.240 weaponizing health and medicine and the incidents, distribution and control 1:27:43.479 --> 1:27:48.000 of disease. Back to the Lancet study, it said, quote 1:27:48.800 --> 1:27:52.960 in recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 1:27:53.080 --> 1:27:56.479 fifteen times the number of direct deaths, and after they 1:27:56.520 --> 1:28:00.000 applied a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per wark 1:28:00.120 --> 1:28:04.479 undirect death, they said it is not implausible to estimate 1:28:04.640 --> 1:28:07.280 that up to one hundred and eighty six thousand or 1:28:07.400 --> 1:28:10.800 even more deaths could be attributable to the Gaza quote 1:28:10.840 --> 1:28:15.280 unquote war. Such a number would represent almost eight percent 1:28:15.640 --> 1:28:19.160 of Gaza's pre war population of two point three million people, 1:28:19.760 --> 1:28:22.760 half of which, may I remind you, are children. The 1:28:22.880 --> 1:28:26.800 Lancet study also noted that Israeli intelligence services, the UN, 1:28:26.960 --> 1:28:30.640 and the World Health Organization all agree that claims of 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:35.360 data fabrication leveled against Palestinian authorities in Gaza over its 1:28:35.400 --> 1:28:39.120 death toll in particular, are implausible. It pointed out that 1:28:39.240 --> 1:28:42.000 the toll is likely much higher because the destruction of 1:28:42.080 --> 1:28:45.120 infrastructure in Gaza has made it extremely difficult to maintain 1:28:45.160 --> 1:28:47.800 account that is not lower than the actual death toll. 1:28:48.360 --> 1:28:51.960 It said, quote Documenting the true scale is crucial for 1:28:52.160 --> 1:28:56.000 ensuring historical accountability and acknowledging the full cost of the war. 1:28:56.479 --> 1:29:00.479 It is also a legal requirement. The STU pointed out 1:29:00.600 --> 1:29:03.880 that the International Court of Justice said interim rulings in 1:29:04.000 --> 1:29:07.439 January in a genocide case brought against Israel that it 1:29:07.600 --> 1:29:11.200 needs to quote take effective measures to prevent the destruction 1:29:11.680 --> 1:29:15.640 and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of 1:29:15.840 --> 1:29:19.639 acts under the Genocide Convention. Before we continue on, let's 1:29:19.680 --> 1:29:31.479 take our first break and we'll be right back, and 1:29:31.840 --> 1:29:35.240 we'rebec I was talking about the International Court of Justice earlier, 1:29:35.760 --> 1:29:38.839 and speaking of the International Court of Justice. On July nineteenth, 1:29:38.880 --> 1:29:42.040 twenty twenty four, the ICJ said Israel's presence in the 1:29:42.080 --> 1:29:46.240 Palestinian territory is unlawful and that Israel's policies in the 1:29:46.320 --> 1:29:51.120 occupied Palestinian Territory amount to annexation. It ruled that Israel's 1:29:51.120 --> 1:29:54.760 continued presence in the occupied Palestinian Territory is unlawful and 1:29:54.840 --> 1:29:57.759 should come to an end as quote rapidly as possible. 1:29:58.439 --> 1:30:01.959 The judges pointed to a why list of policies, including 1:30:02.000 --> 1:30:04.639 the building and expansion of Israeli settlements in the West 1:30:04.680 --> 1:30:08.320 Bank in East Jerusalem, the use of the area's natural resources, 1:30:08.760 --> 1:30:12.920 the annexation and imposition of permanent control over lands, and 1:30:13.080 --> 1:30:17.839 discriminatory policies against Palestinians, all of which it said violated 1:30:17.920 --> 1:30:22.280 international law. As of July twenty twenty four, and since October, 1:30:22.920 --> 1:30:26.519 Israel has killed one hundred and forty three Palestinian children 1:30:26.640 --> 1:30:30.200 in the West Bank on Palestinian land that is occupied 1:30:30.240 --> 1:30:34.160 by Israel. Because since Israel began committing genocide in Gaza 1:30:34.240 --> 1:30:37.160 over nine months ago. It has been attacking and killing 1:30:37.360 --> 1:30:40.200 hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank, including these one 1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:44.280 hundred and forty three children. UNICEF reported that Israel has 1:30:44.400 --> 1:30:48.120 killed an average of one Palestinian child every two days 1:30:48.240 --> 1:30:52.360 in the West Bank. UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell said, 1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:56.759 we are seeing frequent allegations of Palestinian children being detained 1:30:56.840 --> 1:30:59.960 on their way home from school or shot while walking 1:31:00.240 --> 1:31:04.240 on the streets. This report by UNICEF came out just 1:31:04.400 --> 1:31:08.000 days after the International Court of Justice confirmed that Israel 1:31:08.200 --> 1:31:11.880 is committing the crime of apartheid against Palestinians and that 1:31:12.000 --> 1:31:15.640 its occupation of the West Bank is illegal and must end. 1:31:16.280 --> 1:31:18.400 The Court went on to say that Israel has no 1:31:18.640 --> 1:31:21.560 right to sovereignty in any of its territories and it 1:31:21.680 --> 1:31:25.960 is violating international laws against acquiring territory by force, as 1:31:26.040 --> 1:31:30.479 well as impeding Palestinian's right to self determination. It said 1:31:30.560 --> 1:31:34.080 that other nations were obliged not to quote render aid 1:31:34.240 --> 1:31:38.280 or assistance in maintaining Israel's presence in the territory. It 1:31:38.400 --> 1:31:42.720 said Israel must end settlement construction immediately and existing settlements 1:31:42.840 --> 1:31:45.479 must be removed. And this is all according to a 1:31:45.560 --> 1:31:48.960 summary of the more than eighty page opinion read out 1:31:49.040 --> 1:31:53.400 by the Court President Nawaf Saddam, The Court said, Israel's 1:31:53.439 --> 1:31:56.960 abuse of its status as the occupying power renders its 1:31:57.000 --> 1:32:01.760 presence in the occupied Palestinian territory unlawful Israeli settlements in 1:32:01.800 --> 1:32:05.120 the West Bank and East Jerusalem and the regime associated 1:32:05.160 --> 1:32:08.960 with them have established and are being maintained in violation 1:32:09.320 --> 1:32:14.000 of international law. Mind You, Israeli settlements in the West 1:32:14.040 --> 1:32:18.320 Bank and East Jerusalem have always been illegal under international law, 1:32:18.960 --> 1:32:21.960 but that has never stopped Israel from continuing to expand 1:32:22.040 --> 1:32:25.960 its illegal settlements. Since nineteen sixty seven, when the borders 1:32:25.960 --> 1:32:28.559 of what is currently seen its occupied Palestine, which are 1:32:28.640 --> 1:32:31.840 the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem, were established, 1:32:32.240 --> 1:32:34.800 Israel has since built settlements in the West Bank and 1:32:34.800 --> 1:32:38.800 East Jerusalem and steadily expanded on them. It also had 1:32:38.840 --> 1:32:41.839 settlements in Gaza before a two thousand and five withdrawal. 1:32:42.560 --> 1:32:45.680 And I said what is currently seen its occupied Palestine 1:32:45.760 --> 1:32:49.960 because in reality, the whole of Israel is occupied Palestine. 1:32:50.640 --> 1:32:52.880 But as far as the UN and the majority of 1:32:52.920 --> 1:32:57.320 the international community goes, they consider the Palestinian territory as 1:32:57.439 --> 1:33:02.719 defined in nineteen sixty seven as Israeli occupied Palestinian Foreign 1:33:02.760 --> 1:33:06.080 Minister Riyad Maniki told reporters in The Hague that the 1:33:06.200 --> 1:33:10.479 ruling signaled a quote watershed moment for Palestine, for justice 1:33:10.600 --> 1:33:15.200 and for international law. He said the ICJ fulfilled its 1:33:15.320 --> 1:33:19.280 legal and moral duties with this historic ruling. All states 1:33:19.439 --> 1:33:24.000 must now uphold their clear obligations. No aid, no assistance, 1:33:24.200 --> 1:33:27.920 no complicity, no money, no arms, no trade, no nothing, 1:33:28.479 --> 1:33:32.240 no actions of any kind to support Israel's illegal occupation. 1:33:33.479 --> 1:33:36.880 Riad Mansour, the Palestinian ambassador to the UN, said the 1:33:37.000 --> 1:33:40.000 ruling was quote a significant step in the direction of 1:33:40.160 --> 1:33:43.360 ending the occupation and attaining the inalienable rights of the 1:33:43.400 --> 1:33:47.400 Palestinian people, including their right to self determination, the statehood 1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:50.880 and the right of return. The right to return for 1:33:51.000 --> 1:33:54.160 those who don't know, is it demands that Palestinians who 1:33:54.160 --> 1:33:56.400 were forced from their homes in the nineteen forty eight 1:33:56.520 --> 1:33:59.320 Nekba as well as the nineteen sixty seven Nexa, be 1:33:59.400 --> 1:34:03.280 allowed to return to them. Monsour said his team would 1:34:03.280 --> 1:34:07.439 study the entire opinion and dissect every sentence. We will 1:34:07.479 --> 1:34:09.840 consult with an army of friends at the UN and 1:34:09.920 --> 1:34:12.560 in all corners of the globe. We will produce a 1:34:12.720 --> 1:34:16.400 masterpiece of a resolution at the UN General Assembly and 1:34:16.520 --> 1:34:20.880 then Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs rejected the opinion as 1:34:21.120 --> 1:34:26.360 fundamentally wrong and one sided. Nhennyahu's office issued a statement 1:34:26.520 --> 1:34:29.559 in which it called the ruling a decision of lies 1:34:30.280 --> 1:34:33.479 that distorted the truth and asserted that the Jewish people 1:34:33.880 --> 1:34:37.600 are not occupiers in their own land. Jeffrey NICs, a 1:34:38.120 --> 1:34:41.280 human rights barrister, told El Jazeira that it will be 1:34:41.439 --> 1:34:45.320 hard for world leaders to completely disregard the ICJ ruling, 1:34:45.720 --> 1:34:49.160 even though it is non binding. This is one part 1:34:49.479 --> 1:34:52.800 of the legal system saying enough is enough, he said. 1:34:53.400 --> 1:34:56.640 He also said it would be difficult for the interested, informed, 1:34:56.800 --> 1:35:00.559 concerned public not to say its time is reel put 1:35:00.600 --> 1:35:05.479 its house in order. El Jazeera's senior political analyst, Marwan 1:35:05.560 --> 1:35:08.479 Dishada said there is a lot of room for hope 1:35:08.600 --> 1:35:12.000 that this ruling will support a movement, an international movement 1:35:12.160 --> 1:35:14.960 across the board in the West and elsewhere in the world, 1:35:15.080 --> 1:35:18.400 in favor of more sanctions, more pressure on Western governments 1:35:18.479 --> 1:35:22.000 to put more pressure on Israel. In a separate case 1:35:22.080 --> 1:35:25.680 brought by South Africa, the ICJ is also considering allegations 1:35:25.720 --> 1:35:29.160 that Israel's committing genocide into war on Gaza. And yes, 1:35:29.320 --> 1:35:32.120 a preliminary ruling has been made in that case, with 1:35:32.240 --> 1:35:35.600 the court ordering Israel to prevent and punish incitement to 1:35:35.720 --> 1:35:39.880 genocide and to increase its provisions of humanitarian aid, and 1:35:40.000 --> 1:35:43.920 of course Israel has done nothing to do this. In May, 1:35:44.080 --> 1:35:47.280 the ICJ had also ordered Israel to halt its offensive 1:35:47.360 --> 1:35:51.080 on Rapah, the border city in southern Gaza, citing immense 1:35:51.320 --> 1:35:54.920 risk to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians taking shelter there. 1:35:55.560 --> 1:35:59.479 But Israel has continued its attacks on Gaza, including Raphah, 1:36:00.160 --> 1:36:04.160 defiance of the UN court. So it's clear Israel doesn't 1:36:04.200 --> 1:36:07.320 give a shit about international law. But it's also clear 1:36:07.439 --> 1:36:10.280 that no one is doing anything to actually stop them 1:36:10.600 --> 1:36:15.200 from continuing their genocide on the Palestinian people. Before I forget, 1:36:15.280 --> 1:36:17.760 let's take our second break here and we'll be right back. 1:36:26.520 --> 1:36:29.760 Let's go back to abed Au, the executive director of 1:36:29.840 --> 1:36:33.559 the American Arab Anti Discrimination Committee, who said Biden will 1:36:33.560 --> 1:36:36.600 be remembered for the hundreds of thousands killed, injured and 1:36:36.720 --> 1:36:37.759 displaced in Gaza. 1:36:38.160 --> 1:36:38.880 That genocide. 1:36:38.960 --> 1:36:42.320 Joe is what he's going to be remembered as he 1:36:42.439 --> 1:36:47.000 told Al Jazeera that despite Biden's domestic achievements, the president 1:36:47.080 --> 1:36:50.320 will rank among the worst in US history due to 1:36:50.400 --> 1:36:55.080 his unconditional support for Israel. The US Campaign for Palestinian 1:36:55.160 --> 1:36:59.880 Rights the USCPR, echoed that comment, saying nothing will erase 1:37:00.040 --> 1:37:04.320 the fact that Biden's legacy is and always will be genocide, 1:37:05.240 --> 1:37:08.160 and the US President has been an annoyingly loyal supporter 1:37:08.280 --> 1:37:11.840 of Israel throughout his too many decades too long political career. 1:37:12.640 --> 1:37:16.400 Biden frequently calls himself a Zionist proudly and argues that 1:37:16.520 --> 1:37:19.599 Jews across the world would not be safe without Israel. 1:37:20.360 --> 1:37:23.719 He infamously said in June nineteen eighty six, over thirty 1:37:23.760 --> 1:37:26.320 seven years ago, when Biden was just a young chap 1:37:26.439 --> 1:37:30.200 of forty three, that quote. Were there not in Israel, 1:37:30.479 --> 1:37:32.920 the United States of America would have to invent an 1:37:33.040 --> 1:37:36.400 Israel to protect her interest in the region. The United 1:37:36.439 --> 1:37:39.479 States would have to go out and invent in Israel. 1:37:40.600 --> 1:37:43.000 I want to just throw it out there that even 1:37:43.040 --> 1:37:46.880 in this quote, Israel exists to protect America's interest in 1:37:47.000 --> 1:37:50.680 the region, not to protect the Jewish population, because it 1:37:50.760 --> 1:37:52.559 never has done that in the first place. 1:37:53.200 --> 1:37:53.879 But I digress. 1:37:54.760 --> 1:37:58.840 Biden put his worldview into policy during his presidency as 1:37:58.920 --> 1:38:02.280 he pushed on with form Represident Trump's pro Israel doctrine. 1:38:03.000 --> 1:38:06.479 Biden kept US embassy in Jerusalem, and he refused to 1:38:06.640 --> 1:38:10.479 reverse the Trump era decision to recognize Israel's claims to 1:38:10.520 --> 1:38:14.400 the occupied Goal and heights in Syria. He also aggressively 1:38:14.479 --> 1:38:18.040 pursued formal ties between Israel and Arab states, a goal 1:38:18.160 --> 1:38:21.880 that Trump advanced with the twenty twenty Abraham Accords. That 1:38:22.080 --> 1:38:26.600 push for normalization, however, came without progress toward the recognition 1:38:26.720 --> 1:38:30.439 of an independent Palestinian state or the dismantling of the 1:38:30.560 --> 1:38:35.200 systemic anti Palestinian discrimination that has existed since the jump 1:38:35.640 --> 1:38:39.360 a Ka apartheid. And then the outbreak for the genocide 1:38:39.400 --> 1:38:44.200 in Gaza further underscored Biden's pro Israel policies, and then 1:38:44.400 --> 1:38:48.280 mere weeks after October seventh, Biden traveled to Israel and 1:38:48.400 --> 1:38:52.120 publicly embraced n Yahou in what many critics described as 1:38:52.200 --> 1:38:56.479 a bear hug, and that sign of friendliness was widely 1:38:56.600 --> 1:39:00.400 understood to be an endorsement of Natanyahu's response in Gaza. 1:39:01.439 --> 1:39:05.000 Even early in the conflict, human rights groups accused Israel 1:39:05.120 --> 1:39:08.720 of horrific violations rising to the level of genocide, a 1:39:08.880 --> 1:39:12.639 push to destroy the Palestinian people, and within the first 1:39:12.680 --> 1:39:16.160 week alone, the Israeli military said it had unleashed twenty 1:39:16.320 --> 1:39:20.240 thousand strikes across Gaza, a strip of land. May I 1:39:20.360 --> 1:39:23.559 remind you that is roughly the size of Las Vegas. 1:39:24.880 --> 1:39:28.559 According to ap WS January twenty twenty four, the Israeli 1:39:28.640 --> 1:39:32.439 military campaign in Gaza now sits among the deadliest and 1:39:32.760 --> 1:39:37.080 most destructive in modern history. In just over two months, 1:39:37.400 --> 1:39:41.320 researchers said that the offensive caused more destruction than the 1:39:41.479 --> 1:39:44.479 raising of Sirius Aleppo between twenty twelve and twenty sixteen, 1:39:45.240 --> 1:39:49.920 Ukraine's Mariupil, or proportionally the Allied bombing of Germany in 1:39:50.000 --> 1:39:53.720 World War II. Israel has killed more civilians than the 1:39:53.920 --> 1:39:58.360 US led coalition did in its three year campaign against Isis. 1:39:59.280 --> 1:40:02.679 An analysis was done of data from the Copernicus Sentinel 1:40:02.720 --> 1:40:06.200 I satellite by Corey Scherr of the Kuni Graduate Center 1:40:06.520 --> 1:40:10.519 and Jaman Vanderhoek of Oregon State University, both of whom 1:40:10.600 --> 1:40:14.679 are experts in mapping damage during wartime. Corey Scherr said 1:40:15.320 --> 1:40:18.720 Gaza is now a different color from space, it's a 1:40:18.840 --> 1:40:23.160 different texture, and he has worked with Vanderhoek to map 1:40:23.320 --> 1:40:28.439 destruction across several war zones, from Aleppo to Mariupol. They 1:40:28.560 --> 1:40:31.760 say the visible damage in Gaza is worse than they 1:40:31.800 --> 1:40:35.559 have found in both places. But how does the destruction 1:40:35.680 --> 1:40:39.519 of Gaza stack up historically? By some measures, destruction in 1:40:39.600 --> 1:40:43.240 Gaza has outpaced the Allied bombings of Germany during World 1:40:43.280 --> 1:40:47.679 War II. According to Robert Pape, a US military historian, 1:40:48.040 --> 1:40:51.320 between nineteen forty two and nineteen forty five, the Allies 1:40:51.360 --> 1:40:55.679 attacked fifty one major German cities and towns, destroying about 1:40:55.720 --> 1:40:59.240 forty to fifty percent of their urban areas. Pape said 1:40:59.280 --> 1:41:02.599 that this amount to ten percent of buildings across Germany, 1:41:03.080 --> 1:41:06.960 compared to the thirty three percent across Gaza, a densely 1:41:07.080 --> 1:41:11.320 populated territory of just one hundred and forty square miles. 1:41:12.280 --> 1:41:16.400 Pape said Gaza is one of the most intense civilian 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:21.000 punishment campaigns in history. It now sits comfortably at the 1:41:21.080 --> 1:41:24.640 top quartile of the most devastating bombing campaigns. 1:41:24.800 --> 1:41:25.000 Ever. 1:41:26.280 --> 1:41:29.720 The US led coalition's twenty seventeen assault to expel the 1:41:29.800 --> 1:41:32.400 Islamic State group from the Iraqi city of Mosul was 1:41:32.439 --> 1:41:35.080 considered at the time one of the most intense attacks 1:41:35.160 --> 1:41:39.320 on a city in generations. That nine month battle killed 1:41:39.439 --> 1:41:44.280 around ten thousand civilians, a third of them from coalition bombardment, 1:41:44.720 --> 1:41:48.679 according to an Associated Press investigation at the time. During 1:41:48.760 --> 1:41:51.960 the twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen campaign to be Isis 1:41:52.000 --> 1:41:56.040 in Iraq, the coalition carried out nearly fifteen thousand strikes 1:41:56.080 --> 1:41:59.400 across the country, according to air Wars, a London based 1:41:59.439 --> 1:42:04.960 independent group that tracks recent conflicts by comparison. The Israeli 1:42:05.040 --> 1:42:08.479 military said itself that in a single week in January, 1:42:09.000 --> 1:42:14.719 it conducted twenty two thousand strikes in Gaza. Again, compared 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:17.560 that to the fifteen thousand in the three years the 1:42:17.720 --> 1:42:21.400 US was fighting Isis three years compared to one week. 1:42:22.120 --> 1:42:25.599 One week had more strikes in Gaza than three years 1:42:25.640 --> 1:42:29.080 in Iraq. To further put it in perspective about how 1:42:29.240 --> 1:42:32.320 alarming this is from the jump that what is happening 1:42:32.520 --> 1:42:35.880 is not fucking normal warfare and instead it is genocide. 1:42:36.320 --> 1:42:40.880 On October twelfth, twenty twenty three, merely days after October seventh, 1:42:41.200 --> 1:42:44.599 the Israeli air force had dropped about six thousand bombs 1:42:44.720 --> 1:42:48.759 throughout the Gaza Strip. At the time, military experts stated 1:42:48.800 --> 1:42:51.280 that the number of strikes carried out by the IDF 1:42:51.479 --> 1:42:55.439 since the outbreak of hostilities was quote striking, and it 1:42:55.520 --> 1:42:58.040 said it was greater in number than the US military 1:42:58.200 --> 1:43:00.680 used in the month of the campaign against ISIS in 1:43:00.760 --> 1:43:05.320 Iraq in Syria. Mark Duralsko, a Dutch military adviser and 1:43:05.400 --> 1:43:09.120 former UN war crimes investigator in Libya, said in less 1:43:09.200 --> 1:43:12.280 than a week, Israel dropped the number of bombs that 1:43:12.400 --> 1:43:15.600 the US dropped in Afghanistan in a year, in a 1:43:15.720 --> 1:43:19.840 much smaller and denser area where the margin of error increases. 1:43:20.600 --> 1:43:23.760 During the most intense year of the American fighting in Afghanistan, 1:43:24.080 --> 1:43:26.679 a little more than seven thousand, four hundred and twenty 1:43:26.760 --> 1:43:30.360 three bombs were dropped during the entire war in Libya, 1:43:30.800 --> 1:43:34.080 NATO reported dropping more than seventy six hundred bombs and 1:43:34.160 --> 1:43:38.240 missiles from aircraft and not even a month after October seventh. 1:43:38.360 --> 1:43:42.439 On November two, twenty twenty three, Euromed Human Rights Monitor 1:43:42.520 --> 1:43:45.160 said in a press release that Israel had dropped more 1:43:45.240 --> 1:43:49.160 than twenty five thousand tons of explosives on the Gaza Strip, 1:43:49.600 --> 1:43:54.240 equivalent to two nuclear bombs. The press release said that 1:43:54.479 --> 1:43:58.360 due to technological developments affecting the potency of bombs, the 1:43:58.439 --> 1:44:02.120 explosives dropped on Gaza may be twice as powerful as 1:44:02.160 --> 1:44:05.720 a nuclear bomb. This means that the destructive power of 1:44:05.800 --> 1:44:09.920 the explosives dropped on Gaza exceeds that of the bomb 1:44:10.200 --> 1:44:13.799 dropped in Hiroshima, noting that the area of the Japanese 1:44:13.840 --> 1:44:17.400 city is nine hundred square kilometers, while the area of 1:44:17.520 --> 1:44:21.640 Gaza does not even exceed three hundred and sixty square kilometers. 1:44:22.760 --> 1:44:26.400 The rights group's statement underlines that Israel uses bombs with 1:44:26.640 --> 1:44:30.240 huge destructive power, some of which range from one hundred 1:44:30.240 --> 1:44:33.040 and fifty to one thousand kilograms, and they cited a 1:44:33.080 --> 1:44:36.479 statement at the time in November by Israeli war Minister 1:44:36.640 --> 1:44:40.519 Yoev Galant that declared that more than ten thousand bombs 1:44:40.600 --> 1:44:44.559 had been dropped on Gaza City alone and then Israel's 1:44:44.640 --> 1:44:47.400 use of internationally banned weapons in its attacks on the 1:44:47.439 --> 1:44:51.680 Gaza Strip has been documented, said EUROMED Monitor, especially the 1:44:51.800 --> 1:44:55.839 use of cluster and phosphorus bombs, which are waxy, toxic 1:44:55.960 --> 1:45:00.000 substances that react quickly to oxygen and cause severe sound, 1:45:00.000 --> 1:45:03.920 second and third degree burns. The Euromed Monitor team also 1:45:04.000 --> 1:45:07.680 documented injuries among Gossins due to Israeli airstrikes that are 1:45:07.800 --> 1:45:12.479 similar to those caused by the aforementioned cluster bombs. These small, 1:45:12.680 --> 1:45:17.680 high explosive bombs cause penetrating shrapnel, wounds and explosions inside 1:45:17.760 --> 1:45:21.280 the body, leaving victims with severe burns that lead to 1:45:21.439 --> 1:45:26.000 skin melting off and sometimes to death. Fragments from these 1:45:26.080 --> 1:45:30.080 bombs cause unusual swelling and poisoning of the body, plus 1:45:30.240 --> 1:45:33.880 internal injuries from transparent fragments that do not even appear 1:45:33.920 --> 1:45:38.080 in X rays. Euromed Monitor said Israel's use of highly 1:45:38.160 --> 1:45:42.719 explosive bombs in densely populated areas poses the single greatest 1:45:42.760 --> 1:45:46.880 threat to civilians and modern armed conflicts, and explains the 1:45:47.000 --> 1:45:50.879 complete leveling of residential neighborhoods in Gaza and the overall 1:45:50.920 --> 1:45:56.080 severity of the widespread devastation there. According to euromed Monitor, 1:45:56.120 --> 1:45:59.360 which is a Geneva based human rights organization, the Israeli 1:45:59.520 --> 1:46:03.519 Army as admitted to bombing over twelve thousand targets in 1:46:03.600 --> 1:46:07.439 the Gaza Strip, with a recordality of bombs exceeding ten 1:46:07.560 --> 1:46:12.200 kilograms of explosives per individual. It highlighted that the weight 1:46:12.320 --> 1:46:15.440 of the nuclear bombs dropped by the US on Hiroshima 1:46:15.479 --> 1:46:17.960 and Nagasaki in Japan at the end of World War 1:46:18.000 --> 1:46:21.400 II in August of nineteen forty five was estimated to 1:46:21.479 --> 1:46:26.160 be about fifteen thousand tons of explosives. The Rights organization 1:46:26.320 --> 1:46:30.040 further stressed that Israel's destructive and arbitrary attacks are in 1:46:30.200 --> 1:46:34.599 violation of international humanitarian law, which stipulates that the protection 1:46:34.720 --> 1:46:39.320 of civilians is obligatory in all cases and under any circumstances, 1:46:39.640 --> 1:46:43.040 and that killing civilians is considered a war crime in 1:46:43.200 --> 1:46:48.000 both international and non international armed conflicts and may amount 1:46:48.080 --> 1:46:52.280 to a crime against humanity. The Hague Conventions of eighteen 1:46:52.360 --> 1:46:55.120 ninety nine and nineteen oh seven and the nineteen forty 1:46:55.200 --> 1:46:59.559 nine Geneva Convention both regulates fundamental human rights in times 1:46:59.600 --> 1:47:02.880 of war to prevent lethal health effects from weapons that 1:47:02.960 --> 1:47:06.320 are prohibited by international law, some of which because they 1:47:06.360 --> 1:47:11.080 have the potential to cause quote unquote genocide. According to 1:47:11.200 --> 1:47:14.519 Article twenty five of the Hague Regulations relating to the 1:47:14.800 --> 1:47:18.400 Laws and Customs of Land Warfare, quote, the attack or 1:47:18.479 --> 1:47:23.000 bombardment by whatever means of towns, villages, dwellings or buildings 1:47:23.240 --> 1:47:27.320 which are undefended is prohibited, So think of all of 1:47:27.400 --> 1:47:30.599 that as you listen to this next bit. Biden has 1:47:30.680 --> 1:47:35.439 since authorized continuous arms transfers and more than fourteen billion 1:47:35.600 --> 1:47:40.879 dollars in additional aid to sustain Israel's Gaza offensive. Moreover, 1:47:41.360 --> 1:47:45.840 Biden's administration has vetoed three UN Security Council proposals that 1:47:45.880 --> 1:47:50.120 would have called for a ceasefire. Hatem Abudeya, the chair 1:47:50.200 --> 1:47:53.519 of the US Palestinian Community Network, said Biden will be 1:47:53.600 --> 1:47:57.960 remembered above all for enabling Israel's crimes against humanity. 1:47:58.520 --> 1:47:58.840 Quote. 1:47:59.240 --> 1:48:01.240 He could have turned and the tap of money and 1:48:01.360 --> 1:48:05.360 weapons off in October, but he allowed this genocide to happen. 1:48:05.960 --> 1:48:09.160 He is complicit and that's what will be written on 1:48:09.400 --> 1:48:14.040 his tombstone. And with that, we'll be continuing this discussion 1:48:14.120 --> 1:48:16.800 in the next episode, where we will talk about the 1:48:16.880 --> 1:48:20.160 relationship between Biden and Palestinians and will also cover to 1:48:20.200 --> 1:48:23.920 and Yahoo's deranged speech that he gave in Congress last week. 1:48:24.600 --> 1:48:41.519 Until then, pre Palestine, Hello and welcome back to it 1:48:41.600 --> 1:48:45.799 could happen here. My name is Sharene Still, and today 1:48:46.040 --> 1:48:48.680 is part two of our two part series about a 1:48:48.760 --> 1:48:51.760 Palestine update as well as a testament as to why 1:48:51.920 --> 1:48:57.479 Biden's legacy will forever be genocide. In the last episode, 1:48:57.560 --> 1:48:59.920 we talked about the amount of weapons that Biden had 1:49:00.000 --> 1:49:03.240 has been sending to Israel and what this destruction has caused, 1:49:03.680 --> 1:49:06.960 as well as the reactions to his withdrawal from his campaign. 1:49:07.680 --> 1:49:09.360 So I want to get into a brief history of 1:49:09.400 --> 1:49:12.480 Biden's history and politics, as well as what his relationship 1:49:12.520 --> 1:49:15.719 has been like with Palestinians in general. So let's start 1:49:15.960 --> 1:49:19.880 in nineteen seventy. Following his entry into politics in nineteen seventy, 1:49:20.360 --> 1:49:24.240 Biden quickly rose from local to national prominence, mounting a 1:49:24.360 --> 1:49:27.800 successful dark horse campaign to represent Delaware in the US 1:49:27.840 --> 1:49:32.599 Senate in nineteen seventy two. After nearly four decades in Congress, 1:49:32.840 --> 1:49:36.400 he became vice president under Barack Obama, and in twenty 1:49:36.479 --> 1:49:40.759 twenty one, he won the presidency himself. So the current 1:49:40.800 --> 1:49:44.240 president does not hail from a political dynasty, and he 1:49:44.400 --> 1:49:48.160 is not an exceptional orator. His success in politics is 1:49:48.280 --> 1:49:52.360 often credited to his interpersonal skills and his ability to 1:49:52.479 --> 1:49:57.959 project empathy. That sense of compassion, however, has never extended 1:49:58.120 --> 1:50:02.880 to Palestinians. After Biden's announcement of withdrawing from the race, 1:50:03.439 --> 1:50:06.759 Jewish Voice for Peace Action said in a statement quote, 1:50:07.240 --> 1:50:10.639 for nine and a half months, President Biden has funded 1:50:10.720 --> 1:50:14.519 and armed the brutal Israeli genocide of Palestinians and Gaza, 1:50:15.040 --> 1:50:18.599 making the US directly complicit in the killing of at 1:50:18.720 --> 1:50:23.400 least thirty nine thousand people, including over fifteen thousand children. 1:50:24.080 --> 1:50:28.320 Americans have watched in horror and outrage as Biden sent 1:50:28.400 --> 1:50:31.799 to the Israeli government the weapons it used to wipe 1:50:31.840 --> 1:50:39.640 out entire generations of Palestinian families, to destroy hospitals, bakeries, schools, mosques, churches, universities, 1:50:40.000 --> 1:50:45.520 refugee camps, homes, and Gaza's entire healthcare system and electricity 1:50:45.680 --> 1:50:50.519 and water grids, and beyond policy. Even Biden's rhetoric at 1:50:50.600 --> 1:50:56.719 times seemed dismissive of Israeli atrocities and Palestinian suffering. Last October, 1:50:56.840 --> 1:51:00.360 he said, I have no notion that the Palestinians telling 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:03.400 the truth about how many people are killed. I'm sure 1:51:03.439 --> 1:51:06.559 innocens have been killed, and it's the price of waging 1:51:06.600 --> 1:51:11.400 a war. It's terrible, fucking terrible. But that stance has 1:51:11.520 --> 1:51:16.840 clearly caused Biden issues both domestically and abroad. Even before 1:51:16.920 --> 1:51:20.880 Biden delivered a disastrous debate performance on June twenty seventh, 1:51:21.160 --> 1:51:24.200 he had started to trail Trump in public opinion polls. 1:51:25.000 --> 1:51:29.200 Parts of his Democratic base, including young people, progressives, Arabs, 1:51:29.240 --> 1:51:33.680 and Muslims, voiced for months their frustration and anger over 1:51:33.800 --> 1:51:38.320 Biden's support for Israel. Groups like the USCPR the US 1:51:38.400 --> 1:51:42.280 Campaign for Palaicing in Rights argued that Biden's age and 1:51:42.400 --> 1:51:45.960 debate performance were only one factor in the pressure that 1:51:46.160 --> 1:51:49.519 forced him from the presidential race. I'm going to read 1:51:49.560 --> 1:51:54.160 their statement because it's quite good quote. Nothing will erase 1:51:54.280 --> 1:51:58.280 the fact that Biden's legacy is and always will be genocide. 1:51:59.200 --> 1:52:02.040 It was not Biden's failed debate that showed he is 1:52:02.160 --> 1:52:05.560 unfit to lead. It was the tens of thousands of 1:52:05.720 --> 1:52:10.320 bombs he sent to kill Palestinian families. It was his callous, 1:52:10.680 --> 1:52:14.479 dystopian disregard for Palestinian lives as he ate an ice 1:52:14.600 --> 1:52:18.000 cream cone while speaking of a potential ceasefire that he 1:52:18.160 --> 1:52:21.920 took no action to make Israel agree to. It was 1:52:21.960 --> 1:52:26.240 his condemnation of thousands of student protesters on college campuses 1:52:26.640 --> 1:52:30.840 demanding an end to the genocide in Gaza. Other commentators 1:52:31.000 --> 1:52:34.560 likewise argued that Biden failed to show enough concern for 1:52:34.680 --> 1:52:39.479 the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza. Aaron David Miller, a 1:52:39.640 --> 1:52:44.160 veteran former US official, described the situation bluntly in an 1:52:44.240 --> 1:52:47.280 interview with The New Yorker in April. Do I think 1:52:47.360 --> 1:52:50.000 that Joe Biden has the same depth of feeling and 1:52:50.080 --> 1:52:52.720 empathy for the Palestinians of Gaza as he does for 1:52:52.800 --> 1:52:57.479 the Israelis. No, he doesn't, nor does he condicate. I 1:52:57.560 --> 1:53:02.360 don't think there's any doubt about that. Additionally, Biden's withdrawal 1:53:02.439 --> 1:53:05.879 from the race followed a particularly deadly month of violence 1:53:05.960 --> 1:53:10.400 in Gaza. Two Israeli airstrikes killed more than sixty people 1:53:10.760 --> 1:53:14.200 the week leading up to his withdrawal, including in Israeli 1:53:14.280 --> 1:53:18.200 designated quote unquote safe zones and at a UN's school 1:53:18.439 --> 1:53:23.320 where families were sheltering, and then the ICJ, the UN's 1:53:23.360 --> 1:53:27.120 top court, ruled only a few days before his withdrawal 1:53:27.479 --> 1:53:31.080 that Israel must end its illegal occupation of the West Bank, 1:53:31.400 --> 1:53:35.760 East Jerusalem and Gaza, removing settlers from the Palestinian territories, 1:53:36.040 --> 1:53:40.160 and pay reparations to Palestinians. The court also found that 1:53:40.240 --> 1:53:47.160 Palestinians under occupation suffer quote systemic discrimination based on race, religion, 1:53:47.360 --> 1:53:50.759 or ethnic origin, and it urged other states to stop 1:53:50.800 --> 1:53:54.120 supporting Israel in maintaining the current situation, which is also 1:53:54.200 --> 1:54:00.360 called apartheid. USCPR Action executive director Ahmad Abuznid in the 1:54:00.400 --> 1:54:04.200 group's statement, the millions of people who have mobilized in 1:54:04.280 --> 1:54:07.639 the streets and the voting booth demanding a permanent cease 1:54:07.680 --> 1:54:10.960 fire and an end to military funding to Israel have 1:54:11.160 --> 1:54:14.760 been clear. There is no going back to the status quo. 1:54:17.320 --> 1:54:21.080 It remains unclear how differently the next Democratic nominee might 1:54:21.120 --> 1:54:25.759 approach Israel. Harris, the most likely nominee as of now, obviously, 1:54:26.280 --> 1:54:30.719 has repeatedly asserted Israel's right to defend itself while expressing 1:54:30.800 --> 1:54:33.680 sympathy for Palestinians when calling for at least day six 1:54:33.760 --> 1:54:37.040 weeks ease fire in March, which is a little hypocritical. 1:54:37.800 --> 1:54:40.760 But she was also part of the Biden administration that 1:54:41.000 --> 1:54:44.120 sent all those bombs to Israel. She does not get 1:54:44.160 --> 1:54:46.760 a pass. She does not get to be distanced from that. 1:54:47.520 --> 1:54:50.160 And on the other side of things, Trump called Biden 1:54:50.440 --> 1:54:54.760 quote a very bad Palestinian during the first presidential debate 1:54:54.880 --> 1:54:58.600 on June twenty seventh for not helping Israel quote finish 1:54:58.720 --> 1:55:03.120 the job in God's During Trump's presidency, he moved the 1:55:03.280 --> 1:55:06.880 US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and he recognized 1:55:06.960 --> 1:55:11.360 Israel's sovereignty over the occupied Syrian region of the Golan Heights, 1:55:11.640 --> 1:55:16.440 Whorrena Enyahu named a Jewish only settlement after Trump. But 1:55:16.600 --> 1:55:20.320 as the genocide in Gaza continues, organizers are quick to 1:55:20.400 --> 1:55:24.440 point out the Democratic Party's complicity as a whole. Hu 1:55:24.560 --> 1:55:29.320 Taifa Ahmad, spokesperson for the Abandoned Biden Campaign, said, we 1:55:29.440 --> 1:55:32.880 don't think this is solely a Joe Biden problem. This 1:55:33.120 --> 1:55:37.200 is an institutional problem. In an online statement, the group 1:55:37.320 --> 1:55:41.760 invited Harris to meet with its organizers. The Abandoned Biden 1:55:41.840 --> 1:55:44.720 Campaign was one of the first coalitions to call for 1:55:44.840 --> 1:55:49.400 Democrats to replace Biden. We were mocked, denigrated, spoken down to, 1:55:49.600 --> 1:55:53.200 he said, but organizers stood firm in their principles as 1:55:53.240 --> 1:55:56.120 they gained momentum, and they will continue to do so 1:55:56.480 --> 1:56:00.840 as the quote disastrous and criminal approach to Gaza continues 1:56:00.960 --> 1:56:04.680 under the Biden foreign policy, with officials like Anthony Blinken, 1:56:04.920 --> 1:56:09.760 Jake Sullivan, and Brett McGirk. Ahmed said, abandon Biden means 1:56:09.840 --> 1:56:14.520 abandoning this legacy and the decisions Biden made surrounding Israel. 1:56:15.080 --> 1:56:18.880 Given the Democratic Parties lionizing the president since his exit 1:56:18.960 --> 1:56:23.160 from the race, its becoming increasingly clear we may have 1:56:23.240 --> 1:56:26.840 to extend this to whoever becomes the next nominee. He 1:56:27.000 --> 1:56:29.960 indicated that they will continue to call on voters not 1:56:30.120 --> 1:56:34.760 to support any candidate who maintains Biden's blanket support for Israel. 1:56:35.840 --> 1:56:39.480 The Abandoned Biden Group released a statement referencing the June debate, 1:56:39.960 --> 1:56:43.560 during which Biden at times was noncoherent to say the least. 1:56:44.320 --> 1:56:47.800 It was largely his performance that triggered a wave of calls, 1:56:48.080 --> 1:56:51.839 including from prominent Democratic Congress members, for Biden to step aside. 1:56:52.400 --> 1:56:56.360 The statement read, it is clear that the DNC machinery 1:56:56.520 --> 1:57:00.440 pressure Joe Biden to step down only after losing confidence 1:57:00.520 --> 1:57:03.720 in his ability to lead due to his cognitive decline. 1:57:04.440 --> 1:57:08.160 This action came not when he was enthusiastically supporting and 1:57:08.360 --> 1:57:12.800 sponsoring the genocide in Gaza, but when his declining capabilities 1:57:13.080 --> 1:57:17.400 could no longer be concealed. Biden's departure from the race 1:57:17.600 --> 1:57:21.120 comes ahead of the party's upcoming national convention, which is 1:57:21.160 --> 1:57:24.160 slated for August nineteenth, through the twenty second in Chicago, 1:57:24.800 --> 1:57:29.160 and now with just under three months before the general election. Harris, 1:57:29.360 --> 1:57:32.920 whom the Clintons and other Democratic leaders have also endorsed, 1:57:33.440 --> 1:57:36.040 will need to gain the support of the majority of 1:57:36.160 --> 1:57:39.720 the nearly four thousand delegates to win the party's nomination. 1:57:40.360 --> 1:57:42.400 But for many voters pushing for an end to the 1:57:42.440 --> 1:57:46.840 Gaza genocide, the path forward remains the same. A coalition 1:57:47.120 --> 1:57:49.879 of more than one hundred and twenty five anti oppression 1:57:50.040 --> 1:57:53.720 organizations said in a statement that it is still preparing 1:57:54.080 --> 1:57:57.320 to gather tens of thousands to march on the Democratic 1:57:57.400 --> 1:58:02.040 National Convention on August nineteenth. The Coalition to March on 1:58:02.120 --> 1:58:05.640 the DNC said when it comes to the genocide and Gaza, 1:58:05.920 --> 1:58:09.120 there is no difference between Biden, Harris or any of 1:58:09.240 --> 1:58:12.760 the likely candidates for the nomination. They are all complicit. 1:58:13.400 --> 1:58:16.160 This protest is about more than the name at the 1:58:16.240 --> 1:58:19.160 top of a ballot. It is about stopping the most 1:58:19.280 --> 1:58:23.600 horrific crime against humanity that we have seen in this century. 1:58:24.520 --> 1:58:27.720 The statement said that the organizations that joined the coalition 1:58:28.000 --> 1:58:32.480 quote recognize the links between the Palestinian liberation struggle and 1:58:32.640 --> 1:58:37.960 their own struggles involving issues like police accountability, immigration, labor, 1:58:38.360 --> 1:58:43.360 reproductive rights, and LGBTQIA plus rights. They also recognize that 1:58:43.480 --> 1:58:47.440 Democratic Party higher ups often neglect their communities in favor 1:58:47.520 --> 1:58:51.440 of serving the rich and powerful. Quote those responsible for 1:58:51.520 --> 1:58:55.360 the genocide and not just Biden are often obstacles to 1:58:55.480 --> 1:58:58.800 progress in the same movements they pay lip service to 1:58:59.160 --> 1:59:04.000 in order to boost their campaigns. USCPR Action said the 1:59:04.120 --> 1:59:07.840 masses of millions of Americans protesting in the streets will 1:59:07.920 --> 1:59:11.160 certainly not wait for the next president. While US made 1:59:11.240 --> 1:59:15.160 bombs paid for with our tax dollars are dropping in Gaza. 1:59:15.880 --> 1:59:20.040 Regardless of who the Democratic presidential nominee and candidate elect is, 1:59:20.480 --> 1:59:23.640 the next steps are clear. The group called on all 1:59:23.720 --> 1:59:26.840 members of Congress to disrupt or protest the Nyaho's plan 1:59:26.920 --> 1:59:29.920 addressed to Congress which happened last week, and they urge 1:59:30.000 --> 1:59:34.960 lawmakers to pass an arms embargo against Israel. The group said, quote, 1:59:35.320 --> 1:59:40.040 as Israel kills a Palestinian every four minutes and escalates 1:59:40.120 --> 1:59:46.080 regional war, justice could not wait another day. Let's take 1:59:46.080 --> 1:59:48.840 a break ry here before we jump into speech. 1:59:48.640 --> 1:59:50.000 That Nanyaho gave last week. 1:59:50.400 --> 1:59:51.760 So be right back. 2:00:01.960 --> 2:00:02.640 And we're back. 2:00:03.720 --> 2:00:05.840 So I had written the bulk of both of these 2:00:05.880 --> 2:00:09.240 episodes before Prime Minision and Enya who gave his deranged 2:00:09.240 --> 2:00:12.600 speech at Congress last week, but of course I had 2:00:12.680 --> 2:00:16.560 to mention it because it was worse than I ever imagined. Actually, 2:00:17.400 --> 2:00:20.600 this speech was then Enya whose fourth appearance before the 2:00:20.680 --> 2:00:24.680 legislative body of Congress, and several high profile Democrats were 2:00:24.800 --> 2:00:28.960 noticeably absent, an apparent protest to Israel's war on Gaza 2:00:29.120 --> 2:00:33.480 and the humanitarians crisis that it sparked. Rashida Talib, though 2:00:33.800 --> 2:00:38.320 the representative of Michigan's twelfth congressional district, was present. She is, 2:00:38.440 --> 2:00:41.640 mayor remind you, the first Palestine American woman to serve 2:00:41.720 --> 2:00:44.600 in Congress and one of the first two Muslim women 2:00:44.800 --> 2:00:49.400 elected to Congress. She was there sitting during the Enyahu's speech, 2:00:49.640 --> 2:00:52.800 wearing a coffea and holding a sign that read war 2:00:52.920 --> 2:00:55.920 criminal on one side and guilty of genocide on the 2:00:56.040 --> 2:00:58.720 other side, and she was holding the sign up throughout 2:00:58.760 --> 2:01:02.960 his speech. July twenty fourth, the day of Nan Yahoo's speech, 2:01:03.320 --> 2:01:06.840 also happened to be her birthday. So if my blood 2:01:07.040 --> 2:01:10.000 was boiling thousands of miles away watching on my little 2:01:10.040 --> 2:01:13.880 computer screen, I could only imagine how she felt sitting 2:01:13.960 --> 2:01:17.880 in that room as everyone cheered and applauded and stood 2:01:18.040 --> 2:01:21.560 up for this war criminal who was spewing lie after 2:01:21.760 --> 2:01:25.960 lie in the entirety of his speech, as our tax 2:01:26.080 --> 2:01:31.160 dollars are supplying him with more weapons to kill innocent people. 2:01:32.160 --> 2:01:35.960 The almost certain Democratic nominee for President, Kamala Harris, was 2:01:36.040 --> 2:01:39.680 also not present. Though she would ordinarily preside over such 2:01:39.720 --> 2:01:43.680 a speech in Congress as vice president, her campaign cited 2:01:43.720 --> 2:01:46.880 scheduling conference. I guess she gave a speech in Indianapolis 2:01:46.920 --> 2:01:50.480 earlier that day. I also just wanted to highlight quickly 2:01:50.760 --> 2:01:54.080 the hypocrisy of the vast majority of Democrats right now, 2:01:54.200 --> 2:01:58.000 especially the ones that criticized the speech that the nayah 2:01:58.000 --> 2:01:59.920 who gave it Congress or said that he should have 2:02:00.040 --> 2:02:03.360 given speech at all. How much stronger would it have 2:02:03.560 --> 2:02:07.800 been if they sat by Rashida in that room instead 2:02:07.800 --> 2:02:10.720 of leaving the only Palaestini member of Congress sitting by 2:02:10.800 --> 2:02:15.040 herself on her fucking birthday listening to the person that 2:02:15.160 --> 2:02:18.840 has genocided her people. It would have been such an 2:02:18.880 --> 2:02:23.680 amazing demonstration of support and strength to have her colleagues 2:02:23.840 --> 2:02:28.840 sitting with her, but instead she was alone Naenyah who 2:02:28.920 --> 2:02:32.839 gave this speech seeking to rally support for continuing Israel's 2:02:32.840 --> 2:02:37.320 military campaign aka genocide in Gaza. He was greeted by 2:02:37.360 --> 2:02:42.400 anti war protesters outside the Capitol understandably so. The day 2:02:42.480 --> 2:02:46.080 before the speech, over five hundred Jewish people flooded the 2:02:46.160 --> 2:02:50.680 Capitol building demanding arms embargo to Israel and demanding a ceasefire. 2:02:51.240 --> 2:02:55.040 They shouted things like let Gaza live, free Palestine, not 2:02:55.200 --> 2:02:58.560 in our name, and stop genocide. And then during the 2:02:58.720 --> 2:03:02.960 Enyahu's speech, he blasted these protesters from his podium, calling 2:03:03.040 --> 2:03:07.760 them Iran's useful idiots and calling pro Palestinian protester as 2:03:07.840 --> 2:03:11.960 broadly as Hamas supporters and as nt Enyah who praise 2:03:12.040 --> 2:03:16.680 Israeli military members as lions of Judah. Capital police was 2:03:16.800 --> 2:03:21.160 using pepper spray against pro Palestinian protesters just outside the doors. 2:03:21.840 --> 2:03:25.240 The irony of this speaks for itself, and we all 2:03:25.280 --> 2:03:27.960 know by now. I hope that our police trains with 2:03:28.160 --> 2:03:34.040 the Israeli military. Adam Abusala, a Arab American activist from Dearborn, Michigan, said, 2:03:34.080 --> 2:03:36.480 it is a shame that the Enyaho was invited to 2:03:36.560 --> 2:03:40.480 speak to Congress. It's a disgrace that members from both 2:03:40.560 --> 2:03:43.800 parties have invited him to speak here. It's a disgrace 2:03:43.960 --> 2:03:47.560 that Kamala Harris, the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, 2:03:47.800 --> 2:03:51.320 will meet with him. Abu Salah told Al Jazeira this 2:03:51.480 --> 2:03:53.440 at an anti na Enya who protest that was near 2:03:53.520 --> 2:03:56.680 the Capitol. He said, we are here to say enough 2:03:56.800 --> 2:03:59.480 is enough. As Americans, we will not stand for that. 2:04:00.560 --> 2:04:03.640 In his speech, Naenyahoo praised the US Congress as a 2:04:03.760 --> 2:04:07.560 citadel of democracy and described the genocide and Gaza as 2:04:07.640 --> 2:04:12.600 a clash between barbarism and civilization. He said and repeated 2:04:12.880 --> 2:04:16.800 lie after lie, and people stood up and applauded after 2:04:16.920 --> 2:04:22.760 practically every sentence he repeated, proven untrue, hasbar propaganda lies, 2:04:23.160 --> 2:04:26.680 repeating false claims about October seventh about how men were 2:04:26.720 --> 2:04:31.280 beheaded and babies were burned. Alive investigations, including those done 2:04:31.360 --> 2:04:34.800 by Israel, have found that little evidence has emerged to 2:04:34.880 --> 2:04:38.280 substantiate some of the most gruesome stories pushed by Israeli 2:04:38.360 --> 2:04:41.840 leaders like Naan Yahoo. And these lies were a part 2:04:41.920 --> 2:04:44.880 of a methodology that was designed to bolster a false 2:04:45.000 --> 2:04:49.320 notion of Palestinian's being an inherently subhuman people. I'm going 2:04:49.360 --> 2:04:52.240 to play this clip from Mehdi Hassan about the most 2:04:52.320 --> 2:04:54.680 egregious lie, in my opinion, that was spread around for 2:04:54.840 --> 2:04:57.280 months and is still being spread around today as we 2:04:57.320 --> 2:05:01.000 see from Danyahu's speech. But it's about the forty headed babies. 2:05:01.680 --> 2:05:05.240 Forty beheaded babies. How can we forget the most emotive 2:05:05.280 --> 2:05:08.240 and most defensive lie of this entire conflict, A lie 2:05:08.320 --> 2:05:10.320 that went viral and was repeated by the President of 2:05:10.360 --> 2:05:13.760 the United States, who falsely said he saw pictures of 2:05:13.840 --> 2:05:17.720 beheaded babies, even though there weren't any, nor were their 2:05:17.800 --> 2:05:20.840 babies burned in ovens. As Israeli newspaper Haretes proved in 2:05:20.920 --> 2:05:23.600 their investigation, they were all lies. In fact, according to 2:05:23.680 --> 2:05:26.760 data released by Israel's Social Security Agency, Tragically, there was 2:05:26.840 --> 2:05:29.320 one baby killed on October the seventh, ten month old 2:05:29.400 --> 2:05:31.920 Miela Cohen. Maye her memory be a blessing, but in 2:05:32.000 --> 2:05:35.480 the interests of facts, she was not beheaded. Now, one 2:05:35.560 --> 2:05:38.360 baby killed is one baby too many, a tragedy, a crime, 2:05:38.880 --> 2:05:42.160 But forty beheaded babies is just a cynical, reckless, repulsive 2:05:42.200 --> 2:05:44.200 lie that was then used to justify the killing of 2:05:44.400 --> 2:05:45.880 hundreds of Palestinian babies. 2:05:46.280 --> 2:05:50.160 Eljazerra released documentary called October seventh that goes into the 2:05:50.240 --> 2:05:53.320 potential source of a lot of these lies. It's a 2:05:53.400 --> 2:05:56.520 man named Josie Lindell who was an ultra Orthodox first 2:05:56.560 --> 2:06:00.000 responder who operates throughout Israel and occasionally in South Face. 2:06:01.000 --> 2:06:03.200 He was interviewed in this documentary and he is the 2:06:03.280 --> 2:06:06.280 original source of the beheaded babies lie, and he was 2:06:06.320 --> 2:06:08.280 a source of what formed the basis of the New 2:06:08.360 --> 2:06:12.360 York Times now debunked investigation into the alleged systematic sexual 2:06:12.400 --> 2:06:16.680 abuse perpetrated by Hamas October seventh. In these interviews, len 2:06:16.760 --> 2:06:19.360 Dau comes off as almost like a used car salesman. 2:06:19.840 --> 2:06:21.760 One of his claims is that he found a pregnant 2:06:21.800 --> 2:06:25.600 woman whose quote, stomach was butchered open and whose baby 2:06:25.680 --> 2:06:28.320 that was connected to the cord was stabbed. And he 2:06:28.480 --> 2:06:30.400 insists in the reporter that if you want to see 2:06:30.400 --> 2:06:32.680 their picture, I have a picture of it. And then 2:06:32.720 --> 2:06:35.400 the reporter apologizes when looking at this photo because they 2:06:35.440 --> 2:06:38.160 can't see a baby there, and then Lendau's stammers and 2:06:38.240 --> 2:06:40.720 tries to cover his tracks because the photo, as it 2:06:40.800 --> 2:06:43.880 turns out, depicts what the narrator of this documentary describes 2:06:43.920 --> 2:06:47.880 as a quote unidentical piece of charred flesh, which, as 2:06:47.960 --> 2:06:50.440 it happens, is not some unlike many of the bodies 2:06:50.520 --> 2:06:55.440 that phil Lendau's accounts of unspeakable depravity, and as the 2:06:55.560 --> 2:06:59.600 documentary further notes, the IDF has repeatedly debunked those stories 2:06:59.640 --> 2:07:02.800 on the bay of basic forensic evidence, most notably when 2:07:02.840 --> 2:07:06.320 it revised its total death count by two hundred because 2:07:06.360 --> 2:07:09.080 it realized that some of the dead bodies were Palestinian. 2:07:09.560 --> 2:07:12.640 And even though the IDF lies a lot, it does 2:07:12.760 --> 2:07:17.480 concede eventually with enough pressure the truth. By November, the 2:07:17.560 --> 2:07:21.360 IDF conceded that it had actually deployed Apache helicopters and 2:07:21.480 --> 2:07:24.200 tanks to the Nova Music Festival that may have killed 2:07:24.280 --> 2:07:27.680 some of the Nova Festival concertgoers in accordance to something 2:07:27.720 --> 2:07:29.920 that is called the Hannibal directive, which I will also 2:07:30.040 --> 2:07:32.400 mention in a bit, but it's a doctrine named for 2:07:32.800 --> 2:07:35.480 a general who poisoned himself rather than be questioned by 2:07:35.560 --> 2:07:39.400 his robin captors, and in a similar vein this directive 2:07:39.480 --> 2:07:42.360 is basically when the Israeli army is ordered to fire 2:07:42.480 --> 2:07:45.440 upon its own troops to prevent the enemy from taking 2:07:45.520 --> 2:07:49.560 those troops hostage around noon on October seventh. According to 2:07:49.720 --> 2:07:53.440 Israeli newspapers that were cited in this documentary, the IDF 2:07:53.600 --> 2:07:56.400 may have invoked a version of the Hannibal Directive and 2:07:56.560 --> 2:08:00.840 expanded it to include Israeli citizens, and in accordance to this, 2:08:01.200 --> 2:08:05.040 began to blindly open fire with rockets and helicopter gunships 2:08:05.240 --> 2:08:08.000 on any person or a vehicle seen moving across the 2:08:08.080 --> 2:08:12.680 border to Gaza. In particular, the documentary visits Kabbutz be Air, 2:08:13.200 --> 2:08:16.680 where a munitions expert demonstrates very strong evidence that some 2:08:16.800 --> 2:08:19.440 of the houses had been hit with IDF tank fire. 2:08:20.120 --> 2:08:24.240 It was Israeli troops, not Hamas murderers, according to one resident, 2:08:24.440 --> 2:08:28.400 who killed twelve longtime residents there. But let's go back 2:08:28.400 --> 2:08:33.360 to Nanyahu's speech. He also lied about civilian casualties and 2:08:33.640 --> 2:08:37.000 Israel's liberate starving of Gaza. He said in his speech, 2:08:37.400 --> 2:08:40.560 this is not a clash of civilizations. It's a clash 2:08:40.640 --> 2:08:44.880 between barbarism and civilization. It's a clash between those who 2:08:44.960 --> 2:08:49.000 glorify death and those who sanctify life. For the forces 2:08:49.000 --> 2:08:52.560 of civilization to triumph, America and Israel must stand together, 2:08:53.400 --> 2:08:57.840 because when we stand together, something very simple happens. We win, 2:08:58.880 --> 2:09:02.800 they lose. Of course, he didn't mention the most daming 2:09:02.840 --> 2:09:07.040 part of October seventh, the Hannibal Directive. Earlier this month, 2:09:07.280 --> 2:09:10.560 Haretes reported that the IDF ordered the Hannibal Directive on 2:09:10.640 --> 2:09:15.120 October seventh to prevent Hamas from taking soldiers captive. It 2:09:15.240 --> 2:09:18.320 said there was a crazy hysteria and decisions started to 2:09:18.400 --> 2:09:22.880 be made without verified information. Documents and testimonies obtained by 2:09:22.920 --> 2:09:27.200 Heretes revealed the Hannibal operational Order, which directs the use 2:09:27.240 --> 2:09:30.880 of force to prevent soldiers being taken into captivity, and 2:09:31.000 --> 2:09:34.240 it was employed at three army facilities that were infiltrated 2:09:34.280 --> 2:09:38.400 by Hamas. And this potentially endangered civilians as well, which 2:09:38.480 --> 2:09:42.360 we know Israel has killed. We know Israel killed some 2:09:42.440 --> 2:09:45.400 of its own citizens on October seventh, and now we 2:09:45.560 --> 2:09:47.480 know that it killed some of its own soldiers. 2:09:48.480 --> 2:09:49.640 And of course these. 2:09:49.560 --> 2:09:52.920 Deaths are lumped into this overall death toll that keeps 2:09:52.960 --> 2:09:57.000 being repeated as being due to only Hamas's attack. I 2:09:57.120 --> 2:10:00.520 highly recommend reading the Harets report in full. It is 2:10:00.680 --> 2:10:05.080 damning and important, especially as you see these leaders spouting 2:10:05.200 --> 2:10:09.080 lies and then the NYAHUO praised the families of captives 2:10:09.120 --> 2:10:12.640 being held in Gaza, and these families are a group 2:10:12.720 --> 2:10:16.240 that has consistently expressed frustration with the n Yaho back 2:10:16.280 --> 2:10:19.600 in Israel, but they of course figure prominently in his 2:10:19.680 --> 2:10:23.400 messaging overseas because he uses them for his own benefit. 2:10:24.280 --> 2:10:27.880 Believing this whole genocide or a war, if you want 2:10:27.880 --> 2:10:31.640 to call it that, whatever about the hostages is disingenuous 2:10:31.760 --> 2:10:32.240 at best. 2:10:32.320 --> 2:10:32.880 At this point. 2:10:34.120 --> 2:10:37.600 Several reporters who cover Israel reported that relatives of captives 2:10:37.680 --> 2:10:41.000 were arrested for wearing shirts calling for a deal that 2:10:41.040 --> 2:10:44.640 would bring the remaining captives home, an effort that critics 2:10:44.680 --> 2:10:47.680 of the Nyahu have accused him of working to sabotage. 2:10:48.360 --> 2:10:51.440 So you have his own people criticizing him and accusing 2:10:51.520 --> 2:10:55.560 him of lying. I'm getting heated. Okay, let's take our 2:10:55.600 --> 2:10:57.320 second break and we'll be right back. 2:11:06.760 --> 2:11:07.640 And we're back. 2:11:09.000 --> 2:11:12.440 So Republican House leader Mike Johnson had previously warned that 2:11:12.600 --> 2:11:17.000 anyone who attempted to disrupt Naenyaho's speech could face arrest. 2:11:17.920 --> 2:11:21.680 Jacob McGee, a correspondent with the Times of Israel, reported 2:11:21.760 --> 2:11:25.440 that several relatives of captives held in Gaza, walked out 2:11:25.440 --> 2:11:28.520 of nan Yahoo's speech. In a social media post, he 2:11:28.640 --> 2:11:31.880 said several relatives of the hostages being held in Gaza 2:11:32.040 --> 2:11:35.080 have walked out of nan Yaho's address to Congress. The 2:11:35.160 --> 2:11:37.800 PM goes on to pledge not to rest until the 2:11:37.880 --> 2:11:40.960 hostages are home, leading the vast majority in the room 2:11:41.160 --> 2:11:44.280 to stand and applaud, save for roughly a dozen or 2:11:44.360 --> 2:11:49.640 so hostage families. Israeli opposition leader air Lapede bashed nan 2:11:49.720 --> 2:11:52.600 Yaho's speech in a social media post, saying that the 2:11:52.720 --> 2:11:56.480 Israeli leader went through his speech without endorsing the deal 2:11:56.640 --> 2:11:59.880 to bring the remaining captives home on x He called 2:12:00.160 --> 2:12:05.160 speech a disgrace and to use an exclamation point for emphasis, disgrace, 2:12:06.000 --> 2:12:09.360 that's how it read. Nanna, who also said that a 2:12:09.440 --> 2:12:13.560 regional alliance must be forged to counter the influence of Iran, 2:12:13.960 --> 2:12:16.560 and he thanked Biden for his efforts to that effect 2:12:17.000 --> 2:12:19.520 and for calling for an extension of the so called 2:12:19.560 --> 2:12:23.960 Abraham Accords. The Abraham Accords were signed on September fifteenth, 2:12:24.040 --> 2:12:27.680 twenty twenty, during Trump's presidency, and it's something that Trump, 2:12:27.760 --> 2:12:30.880 of course often takes credit for. The accords in brief, 2:12:31.080 --> 2:12:34.960 normalized diplomatic relations between Israel and the UAE as well 2:12:35.000 --> 2:12:38.640 as Bahrain, and then later a renewal in ties with Morocco. 2:12:39.520 --> 2:12:42.200 So as part of the two agreements, both the UAE 2:12:42.360 --> 2:12:47.160 and Bahrain recognized Israel's sovereignty, enabling the establishment of full 2:12:47.480 --> 2:12:52.480 diplomatic relations. During his speech, n'annah who said, I have 2:12:52.640 --> 2:12:55.360 a name for this new alliance. I think we should 2:12:55.440 --> 2:12:59.320 call it the Abraham Alliance. And then he also thanked Trump, 2:12:59.400 --> 2:13:03.520 of course for Trump's efforts promoting normalization efforts between Israel 2:13:03.600 --> 2:13:07.240 and other countries in the region. And as I mentioned, 2:13:07.400 --> 2:13:10.360 his speech was filled with nothing but lies. Some that 2:13:10.400 --> 2:13:14.400 I've already mentioned, here are some more highlights. Nn Yaho 2:13:14.480 --> 2:13:18.280 said the majority of Americans support Israeli actions, but polling 2:13:18.400 --> 2:13:22.600 says otherwise. He said, quote, the vast majority of Americans 2:13:22.680 --> 2:13:26.520 have not fallen for this Hamas propaganda. They continue to 2:13:26.560 --> 2:13:30.280 support Israel. But a recent Gallup poll showed that forty 2:13:30.360 --> 2:13:34.200 eight percent of people in the US disapprove of Israel's 2:13:34.200 --> 2:13:37.560 actions in Gaza, compared to the forty two percent who 2:13:37.640 --> 2:13:41.280 are supportive. A May poll by Data for Progress also 2:13:41.440 --> 2:13:45.200 found that about seventy percent of all voters support a 2:13:45.320 --> 2:13:50.400 permanent ceasefire in Gaza, which Natnyahu has firmly rejected time 2:13:50.640 --> 2:13:55.640 and time again. And many things men Yaho said made 2:13:55.760 --> 2:13:58.400 me pray that I would get an aneurism. And one 2:13:58.440 --> 2:14:01.280 of those things is when he said that Israel is 2:14:01.360 --> 2:14:09.400 going quote beyond what international law requires to avoid civilian casualties. Meanwhile, 2:14:09.560 --> 2:14:13.360 of course, numerous rights groups have said Israel is flaunting 2:14:13.440 --> 2:14:17.480 international law and targeting civilians in Gaza, where it has 2:14:17.560 --> 2:14:22.000 systematically cut off supplies of food and water, displacing more 2:14:22.040 --> 2:14:25.560 than ninety percent of the population and wiping out entire 2:14:25.680 --> 2:14:30.080 neighborhoods and generations of families. And then you have media 2:14:30.120 --> 2:14:34.240 outlets reporting that the Israeli forces in Gaza see large 2:14:34.280 --> 2:14:38.320 swaths of the strip as quote free fire zones. And 2:14:38.400 --> 2:14:41.080 then there was a US doctor who volunteered in Gaza 2:14:41.400 --> 2:14:44.760 who recently spoke to a reporter and he accused Israeli 2:14:44.800 --> 2:14:48.840 snipers of targeting Palestinian children. He said, the children are 2:14:48.880 --> 2:14:51.920 being shot right in the heart and in the head, 2:14:52.640 --> 2:14:55.560 so much so that a stethoscope was unable to go 2:14:55.680 --> 2:14:59.200 over their heart. That's how precise these shots were. I'm 2:14:59.240 --> 2:15:03.200 talking about Doc Mark pearl Mutter about his medical mission 2:15:03.360 --> 2:15:05.320 in Gaza, and I want to play a clip of 2:15:05.400 --> 2:15:07.520 him here because I think what he has to say 2:15:07.920 --> 2:15:09.840 is very important and needs to be heard. 2:15:10.680 --> 2:15:14.160 All the disaster zones you've seen, how does Gaza compare? 2:15:14.800 --> 2:15:20.720 All of this disasters I've seen combined, combined, forty mission trips, 2:15:20.800 --> 2:15:27.560 thirty years, ground zero, earthquakes, all of that combined doesn't 2:15:27.680 --> 2:15:33.720 equal the level of carnage that I saw against civilians. 2:15:33.600 --> 2:15:35.240 In just my first week in Gaza. 2:15:35.800 --> 2:15:40.640 And when you say civilians, is it mostly children? Almost 2:15:40.720 --> 2:15:46.280 exclusively children. I've never seen that before, never seen that. 2:15:46.560 --> 2:15:50.320 I've seen more incinerated children than I've ever seen in 2:15:50.400 --> 2:15:54.040 my entire life combined. I've seen more shredded children in 2:15:54.520 --> 2:15:57.480 just the first week. Shredded, shredded what do you mean? 2:15:57.640 --> 2:15:58.720 Missing body parts? 2:15:59.080 --> 2:16:02.920 Being crushed by billings the greatest majority, or bomb explosions 2:16:03.200 --> 2:16:06.280 the next greatest majority. We've taken shrapnel as big as 2:16:06.320 --> 2:16:09.520 my thumb out of eight year olds. And then they're 2:16:09.520 --> 2:16:12.960 sniper bullets. I have children that were shot twice. Wait, 2:16:13.320 --> 2:16:15.720 you're saying that children and Gaza are being shot by 2:16:16.000 --> 2:16:19.960 snipers definitively. I have two children that I have photographs 2:16:20.040 --> 2:16:22.720 of that were shot so perfectly in the chest. I 2:16:22.720 --> 2:16:25.920 couldn't put my stethoscope over their heart more accurately and 2:16:26.360 --> 2:16:29.400 directly on the side of the head in the same child, 2:16:29.640 --> 2:16:33.360 No toddler gets shot twice by mistake by the world's 2:16:33.400 --> 2:16:36.039 best sniper and they're dead center shots. 2:16:36.920 --> 2:16:42.840 So yeah, there's that. And again n Yahoo slammed college 2:16:42.920 --> 2:16:47.120 protesters and administrators in his speech, leaning into the attacks 2:16:47.160 --> 2:16:51.000 on student protesters who demonstrate against Israel's genocide and Gaza. 2:16:51.520 --> 2:16:54.960 He blasted college administrators who resistant calls to crack down 2:16:55.000 --> 2:16:58.680 on the protests. He also mocked queer activists who support 2:16:58.800 --> 2:17:02.720 Palistinian rights and accuse them of ignorance, comparing them to 2:17:02.920 --> 2:17:07.040 chickens who support the restaurant of KFC. And this bit 2:17:07.280 --> 2:17:09.760 might have been my favorite quote, just because the level 2:17:09.800 --> 2:17:14.279 of stupidity reached a level I didn't know what was possible. Quote, 2:17:14.800 --> 2:17:19.160 these protesters hold up signs saying gaze for Gaza, they 2:17:19.240 --> 2:17:22.760 might as well hold up signs that say chickens for KFC. 2:17:23.760 --> 2:17:27.240 And then, of course, after he said this, nearly every 2:17:27.360 --> 2:17:32.280 member of Congress stood up and clapped Naen Yahoo, for 2:17:32.440 --> 2:17:35.800 whom the ICC prosecutors are currently seeking an arrest warrant 2:17:35.879 --> 2:17:39.400 for for his alleged war crimes. Has said that pro 2:17:39.560 --> 2:17:44.800 Palestinian protesters stand with evil. In his speech, he said 2:17:45.160 --> 2:17:48.959 they stand with hamas they stand with rapists and murderers, 2:17:49.520 --> 2:17:53.640 adding that they should be ashamed. He also said quote 2:17:53.959 --> 2:17:58.000 the outrageous Slanders that paint Israel as racist and genocidal 2:17:58.440 --> 2:18:01.880 are meant to delegitimize Israel, to demonize the Jewish state, 2:18:02.240 --> 2:18:06.400 to demonize Jews everywhere, and no wonder, no wonder, we 2:18:06.520 --> 2:18:10.080 witnessed an appalling rise and anti Semitism in America and 2:18:10.400 --> 2:18:14.400 around the world. And of course, Dan Yahoo praised Biden 2:18:14.520 --> 2:18:18.600 for his heartfelt support for Israel in his speech, Dan Yah, 2:18:18.600 --> 2:18:21.959 who said quote, after the savage attack on October seventh, 2:18:22.400 --> 2:18:26.000 Biden rightly called hamas sheer evil, and then he played 2:18:26.040 --> 2:18:29.680 up their more than forty year relationship because they're both 2:18:29.840 --> 2:18:32.600 fucking old and shouldn't be in power anymore. I guess 2:18:32.640 --> 2:18:35.400 one of them won't be, he said. Biden dispatched two 2:18:35.560 --> 2:18:38.680 aircraft carriers to the Middle East to deter a wider war, 2:18:39.200 --> 2:18:41.320 and then he came to Israel to stand with us 2:18:41.400 --> 2:18:44.960 in our darkest hour, a visit that will never be forgotten. 2:18:45.680 --> 2:18:48.760 And yet it won't be forgotten because Biden's legacy will 2:18:48.879 --> 2:18:53.120 forever be his complicity and assistance in the genocide of Palestine. 2:18:53.920 --> 2:18:56.600 After the speech was concluded, Hamas said that the speech 2:18:56.760 --> 2:18:59.680 shows n En Yahu's lack of interest in a ceasefire. 2:19:00.400 --> 2:19:05.160 Hamas senior official Sammy Abuzuhui said that Natanyahu's remarks demonstrate 2:19:05.240 --> 2:19:07.680 that he is not interested in ending the war, and 2:19:07.800 --> 2:19:11.200 this is according to the US news outlet Reuters. He 2:19:11.320 --> 2:19:15.200 said Nahnyahu's speech was full of lies and it will 2:19:15.240 --> 2:19:18.640 not succeed in covering up for the failure and defeat 2:19:19.080 --> 2:19:21.960 in the face of the resistance. He added that the 2:19:22.040 --> 2:19:25.120 address would also not quote cover up for the crimes 2:19:25.200 --> 2:19:28.279 of the war of genocide his army is committing against 2:19:28.280 --> 2:19:32.480 the people of Gaza. In a statement, Zat Oldish, a 2:19:32.680 --> 2:19:36.320 member of the Palestinian Group's political bureau, slammed the speech 2:19:36.520 --> 2:19:40.440 by the quote unquote criminal Naanyahu as a party of lies. 2:19:41.440 --> 2:19:44.280 At that Yusef, a thirty two year old Palestinian American, 2:19:44.640 --> 2:19:47.120 told Al Jazeera that she traveled to Washington, d C. 2:19:47.320 --> 2:19:50.600 From New York to voice her concerns by Nanyahu's address 2:19:50.640 --> 2:19:53.520 to Congress, and she called the Prime minister, a quote 2:19:53.640 --> 2:19:57.400 war criminal who should stand trial. Yes he should, that's 2:19:57.480 --> 2:20:01.960 what international quote wants, she said, quote. We are just 2:20:02.080 --> 2:20:05.720 here to cause a disruption, shut it down, and say 2:20:06.120 --> 2:20:09.680 not in our names, not with our consent. She called 2:20:09.680 --> 2:20:12.279 the N Yahoo's invite to Congress disgusting. 2:20:12.840 --> 2:20:14.000 Yes, yes it was. 2:20:15.200 --> 2:20:17.640 She said, I don't get how people get to a 2:20:17.800 --> 2:20:21.360 level where they detach themselves so much from their humanity 2:20:21.720 --> 2:20:24.760 that they can't see what's been happening in Gaza. She 2:20:24.879 --> 2:20:29.800 also expressed surprise that US lawmakers still continue to entertain 2:20:29.840 --> 2:20:32.959 the N Yahoo and invite him here. And I'm really 2:20:33.040 --> 2:20:36.320 hoping this next part is true, because while Naanyahu's speech 2:20:36.520 --> 2:20:40.320 sought to shore up support for Israel, El Jazeera correspondent 2:20:40.480 --> 2:20:43.920 rosalind Jordan reported that it is unlikely to alter the 2:20:43.959 --> 2:20:46.920 political landscape in the US, where the opposition to the 2:20:47.000 --> 2:20:50.359 war in Gaza slash the genocide in Gaza is widespread. 2:20:51.200 --> 2:20:54.680 She said, it's not going to change the political reality 2:20:54.760 --> 2:20:57.720 here in the United States. There are many millions of 2:20:57.800 --> 2:21:00.320 people who are disgusted by what they see how happening 2:21:00.440 --> 2:21:03.520 in the war in Gaza. They see the mounting death 2:21:03.600 --> 2:21:07.400 toll nearing forty thousand, men, women, and children, and many 2:21:07.560 --> 2:21:13.240 thousands more injured, the entire population essentially homeless inside Gaza. 2:21:14.680 --> 2:21:17.840 She also added that schisms have emerged within the Democratic 2:21:17.920 --> 2:21:22.320 Party over support for Israel, while the Republican Party remains 2:21:22.480 --> 2:21:27.480 largely united around calls for continued and even increased support. 2:21:29.160 --> 2:21:32.800 My good friend and yours, Robert Evans said about Nanyahu's 2:21:32.800 --> 2:21:36.280 speech at Congress, this is both the most resistance to 2:21:36.400 --> 2:21:39.240 Israel I have seen from US political leadership and the 2:21:39.360 --> 2:21:41.520 most public embrace of Israel I have seen. 2:21:42.640 --> 2:21:43.240 And He's right. 2:21:43.840 --> 2:21:47.040 It's disturbing and baffling behavior that is so divided it 2:21:47.120 --> 2:21:51.920 seems impossible to bridge. It's hypocritical and frankly, quite dangerous 2:21:52.640 --> 2:21:56.000 to normalize the support of someone who the Chief prosecutor 2:21:56.080 --> 2:21:59.880 of the International Criminal Court, Kadim Khan, announced that he 2:22:00.120 --> 2:22:02.840 was seeking an a rest war for to allow this 2:22:03.160 --> 2:22:08.200 man to address Congress in any way is dangerous. The 2:22:08.320 --> 2:22:13.000 Center for Constitutional Rights has also urged the Justice Department 2:22:13.160 --> 2:22:17.480 to investigate an n Yahoo for genocide, war crimes, and torture, 2:22:17.920 --> 2:22:23.040 which have all been well documented and plentiful. But that 2:22:23.160 --> 2:22:27.520 doesn't matter though, because then Yahoo still gave his ridiculous 2:22:27.520 --> 2:22:32.840 speech and bombs are still raining down on Gaza. And 2:22:32.959 --> 2:22:36.960 with that we have concluded this two part series about 2:22:37.120 --> 2:22:42.000 why Biden's legacy will forever be genocide. Until next time, 2:22:42.520 --> 2:22:45.600 please continue to talk about Palestine and what's happening there. 2:22:46.080 --> 2:22:47.880 And the Palestine. 2:23:01.480 --> 2:23:06.720 Grinder. I hardly this is it could happen here where today? 2:23:06.840 --> 2:23:10.400 The it is gay flirting and or harassment, and the 2:23:10.560 --> 2:23:14.800 here is Milwaukee, Wisconsin, during the twenty twenty four Republican 2:23:15.040 --> 2:23:19.320 National Convention. I'm gay also known by my undercover alias 2:23:19.440 --> 2:23:24.240 Garrison Davis, and I was lucky enough to be one 2:23:24.320 --> 2:23:28.200 of our on the ground RNZ correspondence. A few weeks ago. 2:23:28.280 --> 2:23:32.080 We provided daily coverage of the GOP Coronation festival based 2:23:32.120 --> 2:23:35.760 on our conversations with delegates, lobbyists, and think tank ghoules, 2:23:36.200 --> 2:23:39.240 and reported on the general trends in rhetoric used by 2:23:39.320 --> 2:23:42.360 popular speakers at the event. We'll have some more in 2:23:42.480 --> 2:23:44.720 depth episodes about those topics in the weeks to come, 2:23:45.080 --> 2:23:47.880 using more of our recorded interviews we collected at the convention. 2:23:48.560 --> 2:23:51.520 But on top of our regular coverage, I also had 2:23:51.640 --> 2:23:54.600 a special assignment that I'm more or less assigned to 2:23:54.680 --> 2:23:58.600 myself on this show. We often talk about right wing 2:23:58.680 --> 2:24:02.120 extremism and issue facing gay and trans people, including the 2:24:02.200 --> 2:24:05.240 various ways conservatives and Christian nationalists are trying to make 2:24:05.320 --> 2:24:08.840 life harder for queer people, whether through legislation, online harassment, 2:24:09.200 --> 2:24:12.760 and physical violence. As these are two of our most 2:24:12.800 --> 2:24:16.800 frequently covered topics, being at the Republican National Convention provided 2:24:16.840 --> 2:24:21.279 me with the perfect opportunity to investigate the intersection between 2:24:21.400 --> 2:24:27.160 conservatism and homosexuality. For years, I've heard rumors and urban 2:24:27.280 --> 2:24:31.400 legends about a massive influx of Republicans flocking to the 2:24:31.520 --> 2:24:35.160 gay hookup app Grinder to get laid during the RNC. 2:24:36.040 --> 2:24:39.119 Whether they be twenty year old Republican twinks from Miami 2:24:39.680 --> 2:24:42.480 or fifty three year old self hating, closeted gay men 2:24:42.560 --> 2:24:47.800 from Idaho trapped in loveless marriages, Curiosity has often gotten 2:24:47.879 --> 2:24:50.760 the better of me, and I needed to know how 2:24:50.840 --> 2:24:55.879 many homosexual Republicans were actually logging onto Grinder. In case 2:24:55.920 --> 2:24:59.360 you're unfamiliar, Grinder is technically a dating app that serves 2:24:59.400 --> 2:25:03.800 the LGB community, but in actuality, it is a mediocre 2:25:03.879 --> 2:25:06.160 hookup app that mostly serves as a way for strangers 2:25:06.200 --> 2:25:10.199 in their forties to completely unprompted send you unflattering pictures 2:25:10.240 --> 2:25:13.240 of their penis. Grinder was launched in two thousand and 2:25:13.320 --> 2:25:16.480 nine and is arguably the largest and most popular gay 2:25:16.560 --> 2:25:20.240 dating app, especially among men. Grinder has only been around 2:25:20.400 --> 2:25:23.800 for two in person RNCs prior to this point, twenty 2:25:23.840 --> 2:25:27.520 twelve and twenty sixteen, since all convention activities moved online 2:25:27.600 --> 2:25:31.040 during twenty twenty for the pandemic. So this July, for 2:25:31.160 --> 2:25:34.879 the first time in eight years, Republicans from all around 2:25:34.920 --> 2:25:37.600 the country could gather in one city and once their 2:25:37.640 --> 2:25:41.480 wives fell asleep, log on to Grinder and this episode, 2:25:41.560 --> 2:25:45.280 I'm going to tell you about my RNC Grinder experience. 2:25:47.200 --> 2:25:49.160 Before traveling to the city that was about to be 2:25:49.240 --> 2:25:51.520 invaded by all of the weirdest Republicans in the country, 2:25:52.160 --> 2:25:55.320 I needed to do some prep to help ensure safety 2:25:55.360 --> 2:25:59.119 and success in my investigative endeavor. I hope you queers 2:25:59.200 --> 2:26:03.040 liked that terrible place. Based on the massive increase in 2:26:03.200 --> 2:26:06.640 violent anti trans rhetoric coming from the GOP, I already 2:26:06.680 --> 2:26:08.400 knew that I would be dusting off my old boy 2:26:08.480 --> 2:26:12.840 motor skills and going undercover as a cisgender male. Although 2:26:12.879 --> 2:26:15.640 my ability to pass as a straight mail is debatable, 2:26:15.920 --> 2:26:19.200 I can at least easily pass as a not quite 2:26:19.480 --> 2:26:23.440 straight male. My trans feminine fashion taste has been skewing 2:26:23.480 --> 2:26:26.240 more mask lesbian in recent years, so clothing wasn't really 2:26:26.240 --> 2:26:29.360 an issue. I packed up basically all my button up 2:26:29.400 --> 2:26:32.440 collar shirts, three ties, two black suits, and a beige 2:26:32.520 --> 2:26:35.720 London fog trench coat. Basically, the vibe I was going 2:26:35.800 --> 2:26:40.000 for was half young Republican, half Roman towel boy dressed 2:26:40.040 --> 2:26:43.040 as a nineteen fifties FBI agent. I refer to this 2:26:43.240 --> 2:26:46.800 as Dale Cooper Moting. I was unwilling to cut my 2:26:46.879 --> 2:26:49.800 hair to match most of the young Republican frat boys, 2:26:50.320 --> 2:26:53.400 so I settled on styling my wavy blonde locks like 2:26:53.560 --> 2:26:57.600 Baron Trump meets Total Swinton. In Constantine, I was kind 2:26:57.640 --> 2:27:01.080 of Gabriel maxing for most of the convention, and though 2:27:01.160 --> 2:27:04.800 most attendees were unable to pick up on my diikish undertones, 2:27:05.320 --> 2:27:07.520 the one day I wasn't wearing a tie, I did 2:27:07.600 --> 2:27:10.080 get she heard by the Secret Service when entering the 2:27:10.160 --> 2:27:14.600 convention through a security checkpoint. They're going woke, So that 2:27:14.760 --> 2:27:17.959 was my general look for the convention. I also completely 2:27:18.040 --> 2:27:21.920 remade my grinder profile for the RNZ for Simplicity's sake, 2:27:21.920 --> 2:27:24.560 I got to emphasize my twinkish past and removed the 2:27:24.640 --> 2:27:29.760 explicitly non binary transgender aspects of my profile, replacing some 2:27:29.879 --> 2:27:33.240 of my more trans coded photos with pictures of my 2:27:33.400 --> 2:27:37.800 light Yagami and Dale Cooper cosplay. Perhaps next rn C 2:27:38.000 --> 2:27:40.920 I can experiment with discovering how many of the RNC 2:27:40.959 --> 2:27:43.920 attendees are chasers. But for safety's at sake, I went 2:27:43.959 --> 2:27:47.440 to more stealth, both online and in person at RNZ 2:27:47.640 --> 2:27:51.240 related events. For my main profile picture, I chose a 2:27:51.280 --> 2:27:54.320 pretty basic photo of me with disheveled hair, wearing a 2:27:54.400 --> 2:27:58.320 light gray shirt and thin black tie, looking just frankly exhausted. 2:27:59.120 --> 2:28:03.200 I chose the yet elegant user name Twink, and for 2:28:03.320 --> 2:28:07.959 my bio wrote gen z in town for convention, which 2:28:08.040 --> 2:28:10.960 I thought was pretty funny and signals to people that yes, 2:28:11.040 --> 2:28:14.039 I am here for the RNC, but leaves the exact 2:28:14.160 --> 2:28:18.920 reason why still a bit mysterious. So this was my bait. 2:28:19.840 --> 2:28:22.320 On my way to the airport, I was already dressed 2:28:22.360 --> 2:28:24.840 for the part, as I suspected the flight from Atlanta 2:28:24.920 --> 2:28:28.680 to Milwaukee would be part of the whole RNC experience. 2:28:29.520 --> 2:28:32.879 I arrived at the gate and the vibe shift was immediate. 2:28:33.520 --> 2:28:36.880 Older white men with even whiter hair, wearing a mix 2:28:36.959 --> 2:28:40.320 of poorly tailored suits and country club polo shirts fit 2:28:40.480 --> 2:28:43.680 for the driving range. They all kind of looked like 2:28:43.800 --> 2:28:47.879 my Republican grandfather. The women, meanwhile, regardless of age, were 2:28:47.959 --> 2:28:51.160 all cause playing their favorite female Fox and News anchor 2:28:51.280 --> 2:28:55.160 with bleached blonde hair. There were a handful of delegates 2:28:55.200 --> 2:28:58.520 as well as Republican super fans wearing Trump buttons and 2:28:58.640 --> 2:29:01.840 mega hats, just really excited to be going to the convention, 2:29:02.360 --> 2:29:04.120 the way a nerd would be excited to go to 2:29:04.200 --> 2:29:07.840 San Diego Comic Con. Others at the gate were more subdued, 2:29:08.040 --> 2:29:10.800 perhaps not wanting to attract too much attention in the 2:29:10.879 --> 2:29:14.280 Atlanta airport, but I could still overhear them getting into 2:29:14.440 --> 2:29:18.520 quiet small talk about their RNC expectations and in hushed 2:29:18.640 --> 2:29:21.760 tones asking others at the gate if they were going 2:29:21.879 --> 2:29:25.800 to the convention. And that's what everyone called it, not 2:29:25.920 --> 2:29:29.280 the Republican Convention, not the GOP convention or the RNC 2:29:30.200 --> 2:29:34.119 the convention. As I was bording the plane, an older 2:29:34.160 --> 2:29:37.160 woman with straw like blonde hair sitting a few rows 2:29:37.200 --> 2:29:40.240 in front of me waves me and asked, young man, 2:29:40.600 --> 2:29:45.240 are you going to the convention. I gave my best yes, ma'am, 2:29:45.720 --> 2:29:47.880 took my seat, and then heard her remark to her 2:29:47.920 --> 2:29:51.199 friend about how happy she was that more young people 2:29:51.280 --> 2:29:54.360 are attending the convention, and I would suspect she would 2:29:54.360 --> 2:29:57.360 be quite disappointed to learn why I was attending the 2:29:57.440 --> 2:30:00.800 convention and what I was doing there, mainly trying to 2:30:00.800 --> 2:30:05.400 collect as much information about these weird RNC Grinder Republicans 2:30:05.480 --> 2:30:08.200 as I can. And you will hear more about those 2:30:08.280 --> 2:30:12.480 weird Grinder RNC Republicans after the break. This episode is 2:30:12.520 --> 2:30:15.560 brought to you in part by the top Gun soundtrack, 2:30:15.920 --> 2:30:17.640 which I was listening to as I was coming out 2:30:17.680 --> 2:30:20.920 from adderall while writing the second half of this episode, 2:30:21.320 --> 2:30:34.920 as well as these products and sponsors. Okay, back to 2:30:35.080 --> 2:30:40.840 the Grind. Most convention activities took place in the Peiser Forum, 2:30:41.000 --> 2:30:43.400 which it took about four days to learn how to pronounce. 2:30:44.320 --> 2:30:47.240 This venue is usually home to the NBA team, the 2:30:47.320 --> 2:30:50.160 Milwaukee Bucks, and this is where I would do most 2:30:50.240 --> 2:30:53.240 of my grinder cruising so I could see other profiles 2:30:53.280 --> 2:30:56.520 within the radius of the convention area. Every time I 2:30:56.640 --> 2:30:59.160 walked into the Pfeiser Forum, which was multiple times a 2:30:59.240 --> 2:31:01.480 day for four days in a row, I would find 2:31:01.520 --> 2:31:03.760 a little corner or a place to sit and discreetly 2:31:03.800 --> 2:31:05.960 boot up Grinder and refresh my feed to see what 2:31:06.080 --> 2:31:10.320 profiles were in my proximity. Now, if you're unfamiliar with Grinder, 2:31:10.680 --> 2:31:15.840 one of its more terrifying features is the proximity detector, 2:31:16.280 --> 2:31:18.800 telling you what users are near you, whether that be 2:31:19.400 --> 2:31:23.280 five miles away or five feet away. Every night, when 2:31:23.280 --> 2:31:25.920 I got back to the hotel after recording with Robert 2:31:25.959 --> 2:31:28.560 and Sophie, I would once again check a Grinder to 2:31:28.600 --> 2:31:31.000 see if any unlucky delegates were put up in the 2:31:31.080 --> 2:31:34.240 hotels by the airport. The hotel we were staying at 2:31:34.400 --> 2:31:37.560 was also home to the Idaho and North Dakota delegates, 2:31:37.959 --> 2:31:40.680 and though I don't believe anyone from our hotel was 2:31:40.760 --> 2:31:44.039 on Grinder, save for maybe an anonymous profile or two, 2:31:44.640 --> 2:31:47.640 there definitely were RNC attendees at some of the nearby 2:31:47.720 --> 2:31:51.840 hotels roughly fifteen hundred feet away from my bed. The 2:31:51.920 --> 2:31:55.080 Grinder proximity detector was quite useful to me and locating 2:31:55.120 --> 2:31:57.520 profiles active around the footprint of the R and C, 2:31:58.040 --> 2:32:00.760 as well as when sorting through all my messages back 2:32:00.800 --> 2:32:04.080 home to confirm who attended the RNC from out of state. 2:32:04.680 --> 2:32:07.760 Because Milwaukee is about six hundred and fifty miles away 2:32:07.760 --> 2:32:11.600 from Atlanta. If someone's distance marker was substantially different from that, 2:32:11.720 --> 2:32:13.680 I could assume that they were in Milwaukee for the 2:32:13.879 --> 2:32:15.920 rn C from out of state, even if I wasn't 2:32:15.920 --> 2:32:19.640 able to confirm through any brief text exchange. I've also 2:32:19.720 --> 2:32:21.960 done my best to follow up with certain profiles to 2:32:22.080 --> 2:32:26.000 rule out possibilities of secondary traveling or other random reasons 2:32:26.040 --> 2:32:28.760 for why their distance markers might not line up exactly. 2:32:29.080 --> 2:32:32.640 And I think they have it narrowed down pretty well. Okay, 2:32:32.680 --> 2:32:35.000 you've been very patient, and now I think it's time 2:32:35.240 --> 2:32:39.000 to read through the highlights from my grinder in box. 2:32:39.480 --> 2:32:41.600 And I gotta say I think I started off pretty strong. 2:32:42.080 --> 2:32:45.280 While attending the RNC kickoff party the night before the 2:32:45.360 --> 2:32:48.160 convention officially started, I got one of the very first 2:32:48.160 --> 2:32:51.480 messages I received from a twenty one year old Republican 2:32:51.600 --> 2:32:54.199 with the profile picture that's just a close up picture 2:32:54.720 --> 2:32:57.960 of a dark suit with a dark blue shirt and 2:32:58.120 --> 2:33:01.920 vegenta tie. Already frendous vibes. He asked me if I 2:33:02.000 --> 2:33:05.960 was quote unquote with the GOP, and I said, I 2:33:06.000 --> 2:33:08.760 was attending with friends, and then I got no further response. 2:33:09.320 --> 2:33:12.000 I saw this guy online throughout the convention, and then 2:33:12.280 --> 2:33:15.160 after the convention was over, he moved like three hundred 2:33:15.200 --> 2:33:17.520 miles away, so I'm pretty sure he was there for 2:33:17.680 --> 2:33:21.280 the RNC. I got a message from someone who identified 2:33:21.360 --> 2:33:25.520 himself as a local conservative quote but not a hardcore 2:33:25.640 --> 2:33:29.400 Republican unquote, and he was excited the convention was in town, 2:33:29.720 --> 2:33:33.680 hopeful that he would quote meet my future husband unquote. 2:33:34.879 --> 2:33:38.760 The first chaser I encountered with the bio looking for 2:33:38.959 --> 2:33:42.440 some lady dick to feel in my ass, saw through 2:33:42.520 --> 2:33:46.680 my sister gender disguise and messaged me cock question mark. 2:33:47.480 --> 2:33:49.960 I got one other message from a chaser who was 2:33:50.040 --> 2:33:52.400 pretending to be Tea for Tea, who asked me if 2:33:52.440 --> 2:33:56.039 I was in town for Kitsu Khan, an anime convention 2:33:56.160 --> 2:33:59.840 in Green Bay. A nice local messaged me, quote hope 2:33:59.879 --> 2:34:03.200 you're finding what you're looking for smiley face, which was 2:34:03.360 --> 2:34:05.879 very nice and just kind of amusing if you consider 2:34:05.959 --> 2:34:08.640 that he thought I was just a gay Republican looking 2:34:08.720 --> 2:34:12.600 for some other gay Republican. Another local with the name 2:34:13.000 --> 2:34:17.000 Older for Young sent me the message quote boomer who 2:34:17.000 --> 2:34:19.959 will talk politics with you or we can just fuck. 2:34:21.280 --> 2:34:25.040 I asked him if the quote unquote talk politics pickup 2:34:25.120 --> 2:34:29.160 line works very often, and he replied, quote less often 2:34:29.360 --> 2:34:33.840 than I would hope for on here zero unquote. He 2:34:33.959 --> 2:34:36.960 mentioned that he had noticed some convention attendees on the 2:34:37.000 --> 2:34:41.040 app telling me that they have infiltrated grinder. He then 2:34:41.080 --> 2:34:42.960 asked me what exact hotel I was staying at. So 2:34:43.080 --> 2:34:46.080 that was the end of that conversation. A minority of 2:34:46.160 --> 2:34:50.360 the Milwaukee locals who messaged me identified themselves as conservatives 2:34:50.600 --> 2:34:53.520 and were largely excited that the RNC was in town. 2:34:54.240 --> 2:34:57.080 They vicariously questioned me about how the convention was going, 2:34:57.280 --> 2:35:01.080 as most were disappointed that they themselves cannot attend. One 2:35:01.160 --> 2:35:05.519 such fellaw, who described Trump's first RNC entrance as electric 2:35:05.959 --> 2:35:09.160 and a very emotional moment for him and the entire 2:35:09.280 --> 2:35:12.760 crowd unquote, would have liked to attend, but he was 2:35:12.840 --> 2:35:16.279 busy working at the hospital because they needed quote extra 2:35:16.440 --> 2:35:22.440 staffing just in case unquote. Now, the worst profile picture 2:35:22.480 --> 2:35:25.720 I found was an older guy wearing a baseball camp 2:35:25.840 --> 2:35:28.920 and one of those half faced skull masks like Adam 2:35:28.959 --> 2:35:31.480 Offfen used to wear. He said he was from Florida 2:35:31.760 --> 2:35:34.080 and claimed to be in town not for the RNC 2:35:34.600 --> 2:35:38.720 but to visit family, and mentioned that Vance had completely 2:35:38.840 --> 2:35:42.040 sold out his morals for the VP spot. This guy's 2:35:42.080 --> 2:35:45.240 politics were impenetrable. Maybe this was just like your average 2:35:45.640 --> 2:35:50.720 Florida independent. Very baffling fella. A younger guy messaged me 2:35:51.080 --> 2:35:54.560 asking you're a Republican and I said not really, putting 2:35:54.560 --> 2:35:56.760 it lightly, and he never got back to me. I 2:35:56.840 --> 2:35:59.520 did find a thirty one year old chaser named Greg 2:36:00.000 --> 2:36:02.520 I do believe with attending the convention, and his bio 2:36:02.720 --> 2:36:08.519 read quote anon come drain me trans CD as crossdresser 2:36:08.920 --> 2:36:12.840 sissy fem to the front of the line. I asked, 2:36:13.120 --> 2:36:16.840 you like trans and he responded yes. We had no 2:36:16.959 --> 2:36:20.280 further conversation. I did talk with two other people who 2:36:20.280 --> 2:36:22.959 happened to be covering the convention, including one guy who 2:36:23.000 --> 2:36:25.960 thought I was with CNN because the Grinder proximity sensor 2:36:26.040 --> 2:36:28.680 put me near the CNN area when I was actually 2:36:28.920 --> 2:36:33.480 using Grinder at the Heritage Foundation party. And lastly, really 2:36:33.560 --> 2:36:37.280 the only guy I saw who openly claims to be 2:36:37.360 --> 2:36:40.879 attending the RNC in his public bio was a thirty 2:36:40.920 --> 2:36:44.600 two year old from Shreveport, Louisiana with the user name 2:36:45.040 --> 2:36:49.600 suck me Off one word. He described the convention as 2:36:49.920 --> 2:36:53.880 exhausting but awesome and told me he was quote proud 2:36:54.000 --> 2:36:58.200 to support President Trump unquote and called Trump's speech on 2:36:58.280 --> 2:37:02.400 the final day amazing. A lot of the RNC speakers, 2:37:02.440 --> 2:37:05.720 including Trump, talked about Corey Compretour, the man who was 2:37:05.760 --> 2:37:09.440 killed at the Trump rally during the attempted assassination. So 2:37:09.920 --> 2:37:13.359 after mister suck me off talked about how awesome Trump's 2:37:13.400 --> 2:37:17.960 speech was, I just replied to him, poor Corey, and 2:37:18.320 --> 2:37:22.240 he messaged me back Corey Who, and that he told 2:37:22.280 --> 2:37:25.280 me what exact hotel he was staying at. Now, part 2:37:25.360 --> 2:37:28.560 of the danger of trying to use Grinder directly in 2:37:28.600 --> 2:37:32.360 the middle of the RNC, even discreetly, is that even 2:37:32.400 --> 2:37:34.880 if I'm hunched over on my phone, there is a 2:37:35.040 --> 2:37:38.080 non zero chance that some passer by or persons sitting 2:37:38.120 --> 2:37:41.039 right above me might catch a glimpse of an unsolicited 2:37:41.120 --> 2:37:43.680 dickpic that fills my phone screen as I try to 2:37:43.760 --> 2:37:47.040 check my messages. And this is simply a non negotiable 2:37:47.120 --> 2:37:51.680 part of the Grinder experience. Whatever you do, grainy, unflattering, 2:37:51.879 --> 2:37:55.040 bizarrely angled photos of some Balding, forty three year old 2:37:55.160 --> 2:37:59.640 married man will appear in your inbox ordinarroly. I would 2:37:59.720 --> 2:38:02.160 check the profile first to see who might be sending 2:38:02.240 --> 2:38:05.680 me a photo to weed out the undesirable prospects before 2:38:05.760 --> 2:38:09.960 even considering to open up a DM. Unfortunately, multiple factors 2:38:10.000 --> 2:38:12.560 prevented me from doing this. For one, this was research, 2:38:12.600 --> 2:38:15.040 so I needed to collect the most amount of data possible. 2:38:15.640 --> 2:38:18.600 But moreover, even if I still wanted to vet for 2:38:18.680 --> 2:38:23.400 applicable profiles in my dms, this was impossible without opening 2:38:23.520 --> 2:38:26.720 up each DM individually and clicking through to their profile 2:38:26.760 --> 2:38:29.439 from the chatlog. Due to one of the many glitches 2:38:29.560 --> 2:38:34.039 I experienced using Grinder at the RNC, about halfway through 2:38:34.080 --> 2:38:37.080 the week, the app started crashing pretty frequently. But the 2:38:37.200 --> 2:38:38.960 main glitch I had to deal with, which has since 2:38:39.000 --> 2:38:42.680 been fixed, is that I could not access anyone's profile 2:38:42.800 --> 2:38:45.240 from the DM's page. I had to click into each 2:38:45.480 --> 2:38:49.360 individual chat log to open up a user profile, which 2:38:49.440 --> 2:38:52.160 meant I had to look at a lot more unsolicited 2:38:52.240 --> 2:38:55.840 dick pics before even being able to check anyone's profile. 2:38:56.400 --> 2:38:59.600 So there I was watching Ted Cruise's speech sitting underneath 2:38:59.600 --> 2:39:02.959 about fifty Republicans and right next to both of my bosses, 2:39:03.360 --> 2:39:06.520 scrolling through an endless stream of Dick pics to see 2:39:06.560 --> 2:39:08.200 who was local and who was here for the r 2:39:08.280 --> 2:39:12.800 and C, hoping that whatever Republican voter from Alabama wasn't 2:39:12.920 --> 2:39:16.720 looking over my shoulder at the plethora of dimly lit 2:39:16.959 --> 2:39:20.480 hog But I was far from the only one reporting 2:39:20.520 --> 2:39:23.160 issues with the app during the r and C. Around 2:39:23.280 --> 2:39:26.280 midday on Tuesday, the second day of the convention, over 2:39:26.320 --> 2:39:29.439 one thousand users reported a Grinder outage in the Milwaukee 2:39:29.600 --> 2:39:33.400 area on the website down detector. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 2:39:33.440 --> 2:39:35.600 wrote on the final day of the r and C 2:39:35.840 --> 2:39:39.120 that quote reports that the Grinder app crashing increased by 2:39:39.200 --> 2:39:41.840 more than ninety percent in the past forty eight hours 2:39:41.920 --> 2:39:45.480 across the country unquote. The down detector heat map showed 2:39:45.520 --> 2:39:49.039 Grinder outages in Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York, as 2:39:49.160 --> 2:39:52.119 well as a hot spot of outages in Milwaukee near 2:39:52.200 --> 2:39:56.480 the end of the convention, indicating users were experiencing issues 2:39:56.520 --> 2:39:59.680 with the app, possibly due to an increase in act 2:40:01.280 --> 2:40:04.000 and you will hear more about that activity after this 2:40:04.240 --> 2:40:07.000 ad break. This episode of It could Happen Here is 2:40:07.040 --> 2:40:10.879 brought to you in part by the Challenger's soundtrack remix 2:40:11.120 --> 2:40:14.680 by Boys Noise, which I was listening to as I 2:40:14.840 --> 2:40:17.640 wrote most of this episode while on the plane back 2:40:17.680 --> 2:40:20.840 to Atlanta. This episode is also brought to you by 2:40:20.920 --> 2:40:34.760 these products and services. We once again returned to the grind. 2:40:35.400 --> 2:40:37.680 We got to keep on grinding. We're almost done, but 2:40:37.760 --> 2:40:39.920 we got to grind a little more. Just one more 2:40:40.000 --> 2:40:42.360 grind bro I swear about addictors. One more grind broach, 2:40:42.480 --> 2:40:46.200 one more grind. During the influx of reports about the 2:40:46.280 --> 2:40:49.840 Grinder app breaking during the RNC, a post from the 2:40:49.879 --> 2:40:54.119 Twitter account for the Halfway Post went extremely viral, bolstering 2:40:54.200 --> 2:40:58.320 claims of a massive increase in activity. Quote breaking, an 2:40:58.400 --> 2:41:02.160 executive of the gay dating app Grinder says the Republican 2:41:02.280 --> 2:41:07.960 National Convention is quote basically Grinder's super Bowl unquote. This 2:41:08.160 --> 2:41:11.560 quote from a Grinder executive went super viral, prompting discussions 2:41:11.600 --> 2:41:14.959 all over the Internet about five different articles, and even 2:41:15.000 --> 2:41:18.400 a disgraced former New York Congressman, George Sentos, commented on 2:41:18.480 --> 2:41:21.880 the phenomenon, content warning gay Republican. 2:41:22.120 --> 2:41:28.160 So Grinder executives are calling the RNC convention the Grinder 2:41:29.040 --> 2:41:29.720 super Bowl. 2:41:30.480 --> 2:41:30.879 Folks. 2:41:31.560 --> 2:41:38.039 Look, I'm openly gay. No qualms about it. Proud conservative Republican. 2:41:38.400 --> 2:41:41.320 I met my husband on Grinder and we've been together 2:41:41.520 --> 2:41:44.960 for six years going on seven, married for almost three. 2:41:45.600 --> 2:41:49.120 Let me tell you something. Just come out the closet, boys, 2:41:49.360 --> 2:41:53.720 come on, it's fun. You can be gay and conservative. 2:41:53.920 --> 2:41:57.120 But look, Grinder's already out of you anyway. Based on 2:41:57.200 --> 2:41:59.320 the hits, and guess who's in town. It's all you 2:41:59.480 --> 2:42:00.840 conservative by. 2:42:02.480 --> 2:42:02.640 Now. 2:42:02.800 --> 2:42:06.560 I certainly did observe a lot of blank or anonymous profiles, 2:42:06.920 --> 2:42:09.320 at least more than I'm used to. I also received 2:42:09.360 --> 2:42:13.119 messages containing variations of hey sexy from at least five 2:42:13.160 --> 2:42:16.800 accounts that have since been deactivated. And this does line 2:42:16.879 --> 2:42:19.560 up with a report from a Milwaukee area Grinder user 2:42:19.800 --> 2:42:22.120 who spoke with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel saying that he 2:42:22.240 --> 2:42:24.400 noticed a major bump in anonymous users. 2:42:24.920 --> 2:42:25.240 Quote. 2:42:25.720 --> 2:42:27.680 On any given day, you'll go on there and see 2:42:27.680 --> 2:42:30.600 a headless torso or a blank profile, said the source, 2:42:30.600 --> 2:42:33.120 who did not want to be named. The Grinder user said, 2:42:33.200 --> 2:42:35.880 on a normal day, you'll encounter maybe ten users with 2:42:35.959 --> 2:42:38.879 no public profile. But Thursday, when he checked the app, 2:42:39.240 --> 2:42:42.800 he said he stopped counting at fifty blank profile photos. 2:42:43.080 --> 2:42:43.520 Unquote. 2:42:44.240 --> 2:42:46.800 Now we don't have any official data yet on Grinder 2:42:46.920 --> 2:42:49.640 usage near the twenty twenty four r and C only 2:42:49.720 --> 2:42:53.000 the down detector reports which our user submitted, but we 2:42:53.280 --> 2:42:56.520 do at least have data from the last in person 2:42:56.640 --> 2:42:59.800 convention in Cleveland, Ohio, all the way back in twenty six. 2:43:00.920 --> 2:43:03.879 A Vice article by Candice Brian spoke with sources from 2:43:03.920 --> 2:43:07.200 Grinder and wrote that quote, Grinder usage near the Quick 2:43:07.240 --> 2:43:10.440 and Loans Arena showed a sixty six percent increase during 2:43:10.480 --> 2:43:15.240 the RNC. Other active destinations including Times Square, Capitol Hill, Disneyland, 2:43:15.320 --> 2:43:18.800 South Beach, and Trump Tower showed no comparable increase in 2:43:18.959 --> 2:43:23.480 active users. Unquote. Many of the local twinks and trans 2:43:23.520 --> 2:43:27.760 folks certainly were concerned about possible RNC freaks hiding on 2:43:27.879 --> 2:43:30.800 the app. People would often first ask me if I 2:43:30.959 --> 2:43:33.280 was a Republican or why I was in town before 2:43:33.360 --> 2:43:36.480 trying to hit on me. One such twink told me, quote, 2:43:36.920 --> 2:43:39.160 I would be surprised if you were a delegate or something, 2:43:39.480 --> 2:43:43.400 but I had to check. As the week progressed, more 2:43:43.480 --> 2:43:45.680 locals told me that they had found a handful of 2:43:45.800 --> 2:43:50.119 out and proud patriots online, but really not many. In fact, 2:43:50.320 --> 2:43:53.800 multiple Milwaukee locals I chatted with on Grinder did claim 2:43:53.920 --> 2:43:57.879 to notice an uptick in users, but mostly recognizable local 2:43:58.000 --> 2:44:00.600 users who were online for the same reason than I was, 2:44:01.160 --> 2:44:03.920 to see if there was an influx of closeted Republicans. 2:44:04.280 --> 2:44:07.280 Someone told me, quote for the record, it's like three 2:44:07.360 --> 2:44:10.480 times busier here than normal. Everyone is out to see 2:44:10.520 --> 2:44:13.160 what the Republicans are up to, and the chasers have 2:44:13.240 --> 2:44:16.680 come out of the woodwork unquote. Far from being the 2:44:16.760 --> 2:44:20.720 app's super Bowl. According to Weiss, the twenty sixteen rnc's 2:44:20.720 --> 2:44:24.400 sixty six percent bump in activity is less than one 2:44:24.600 --> 2:44:27.760 half of the increase in Grinder activity that was seen 2:44:27.920 --> 2:44:31.680 at the last in person DNC, an event, which was 2:44:31.720 --> 2:44:36.440 also a whole day shorter. I'lade from Wes Quote. However, 2:44:36.600 --> 2:44:39.720 from Sunday to Monday, the week of the Democratic National Convention, 2:44:40.120 --> 2:44:43.080 there was an even higher one hundred and forty eight 2:44:43.160 --> 2:44:47.640 percent increase in activity around the Wells Fargo Arena in Philadelphia. 2:44:48.040 --> 2:44:48.360 Quote. 2:44:49.160 --> 2:44:52.360 It's also worth noting that of that sixty six percent 2:44:52.440 --> 2:44:54.480 increase in activity around the twenty sixteen r and C, 2:44:55.240 --> 2:44:58.680 only about forty percent of those users were visiting Cleveland, 2:44:59.080 --> 2:45:03.080 most were local. Meanwhile, sixty percent of Grinder users active 2:45:03.200 --> 2:45:07.400 near the DNC in Philadelphia. We're visiting the city. Oh, 2:45:07.520 --> 2:45:10.520 and that quote from a Grinder executive calling the RNZ 2:45:11.000 --> 2:45:13.880 grinders a super Bowl, as well as George Sandos's other 2:45:13.959 --> 2:45:17.640 claim about Grinder purposely outing gay conservatives. Both of those 2:45:17.760 --> 2:45:20.959 claims originate from Twitter satire accounts. 2:45:21.440 --> 2:45:24.320 It is totally made up, pure fiction. It's fiction. 2:45:24.840 --> 2:45:25.320 It's fiction. 2:45:25.840 --> 2:45:27.840 We made it up. We made this one up. It's 2:45:27.879 --> 2:45:31.160 a made up tail. It's a total fabrication. It never happened. 2:45:32.120 --> 2:45:35.520 It's an urban legend that never happened. So no, the 2:45:35.720 --> 2:45:39.520 RNC is not Grinders a super Bowl. I got messages 2:45:39.600 --> 2:45:42.720 from over one hundred and fifty different people. Over ninety 2:45:42.800 --> 2:45:46.800 percent of the messages I received and profiles visible online 2:45:47.000 --> 2:45:50.959 even while inside the Pfizer forum were from locals completely 2:45:51.080 --> 2:45:54.840 unaffiliated with the RNZ, and any boost activity that can 2:45:54.879 --> 2:45:56.720 be attributed to people visiting for the r and C 2:45:57.400 --> 2:45:59.880 is a minuscule drop in the bucket compared to the 2:46:00.160 --> 2:46:04.360 proverbial orgy festival of out of town gay Democrats who 2:46:04.480 --> 2:46:08.080 travel to the DNC, and like, if you think about 2:46:08.160 --> 2:46:12.160 this logically, this shouldn't at all be surprising. The Republican 2:46:12.240 --> 2:46:14.800 Party has spent the past two years screaming about how 2:46:14.840 --> 2:46:18.080 all drag queens are child groomers. And though this was 2:46:18.160 --> 2:46:21.000 the first year the GOP has removed opposition to gay 2:46:21.080 --> 2:46:24.720 marriage from their party platform, they have massively increased their 2:46:24.720 --> 2:46:28.160 opposition to and attacks against trans people and really any 2:46:28.200 --> 2:46:31.200 display of a visible queerness, like, come on, this is 2:46:31.240 --> 2:46:35.080 the Republican Party. There's this kind of fucked up cultural 2:46:35.160 --> 2:46:39.520 conception that homophobic politicians must be so because they are 2:46:39.720 --> 2:46:43.640 secretly gay. And while there is the occasional like Lindsey 2:46:43.720 --> 2:46:48.320 Graham or repressed homosexual preacher, this is not the norm, 2:46:48.720 --> 2:46:52.880 and all Republicans being secretly gay is not the driving 2:46:53.000 --> 2:46:57.000 force of legislative homophobia. It is an ideological drive, largely 2:46:57.120 --> 2:47:00.879 in furtherance of hegemonic Christian nationalism, and now for people 2:47:00.920 --> 2:47:04.680 like Elon Musk and more, young Republicans of fascistic notion 2:47:04.879 --> 2:47:08.520 of reproductive futurism built on fears that young people white 2:47:08.560 --> 2:47:13.320 people aren't having enough white babies, which they partially attribute 2:47:13.320 --> 2:47:16.119 to society becoming more accepting of gay and trans people, 2:47:16.480 --> 2:47:21.440 resulting in people having less reproductive or heterosexual sex. Never 2:47:21.520 --> 2:47:24.200 mind the fact that queer and trans people oftentimes can 2:47:24.400 --> 2:47:27.560 and do have children, which still doesn't seem to please 2:47:27.600 --> 2:47:30.760 these conservatives, as it doesn't align with their traditionalist view 2:47:30.840 --> 2:47:34.520 of the family unit. So no, Grinder wasn't flooded with 2:47:34.600 --> 2:47:38.280 closeted Republicans because there simply isn't that many closeted Republicans 2:47:38.320 --> 2:47:41.160 that are going to be attending the RNC. And while 2:47:41.200 --> 2:47:44.280 there may not be as many Republicans as I thought 2:47:44.400 --> 2:47:47.400 there might be, I do believe that I have the 2:47:47.440 --> 2:47:51.080 bump in activity, albeit a smaller bump than rumored. Basically 2:47:51.360 --> 2:47:55.360 figured out based on my anecdotal experience and the reports 2:47:55.400 --> 2:47:57.880 of a handful of local Grinder users and journalists I 2:47:58.000 --> 2:48:00.600 talked with who were online during the twenty twenty four 2:48:00.720 --> 2:48:04.480 rn C, and considering the twenty sixteen Grinder data, I 2:48:04.520 --> 2:48:08.240 can report that merely a small minority of activity was 2:48:08.320 --> 2:48:13.280 due to ordinary RNZ attendees. The majority of activity was 2:48:13.400 --> 2:48:17.359 from locals who either regularly used Grinder or were specifically 2:48:17.480 --> 2:48:22.160 curious about who might be online during the RNC. I 2:48:22.280 --> 2:48:25.640 observed two more groups that would contribute to any noticeable 2:48:25.800 --> 2:48:29.520 increase in activity. Not everyone who attends the RNC are 2:48:29.640 --> 2:48:32.400 guests or delegates. A lot of people work at the 2:48:32.480 --> 2:48:35.800 convention center or work tech, and a sizeable chunk of 2:48:35.840 --> 2:48:39.840 people are like myself, researchers, pollsters or journalists who attend 2:48:39.879 --> 2:48:43.959 conventions like this for work. And lastly, the final group 2:48:44.080 --> 2:48:47.440 that fills out the bump in grinder activity, one that 2:48:47.800 --> 2:48:50.400 for some reason didn't really expect to see upon arrival, 2:48:50.520 --> 2:48:52.680 but in retrospect makes total sense. 2:48:53.640 --> 2:48:54.520 Are cops? 2:48:55.240 --> 2:48:58.240 So many cops? There were so many cops online at 2:48:58.240 --> 2:49:01.720 the RNC, just like delegates or reporters. They are coming 2:49:01.800 --> 2:49:04.720 to town from all around the country. There was cops 2:49:04.840 --> 2:49:10.000 or state troopers from Texas, Ohio, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, California, Indiana, 2:49:10.360 --> 2:49:13.520 and many more states, as well as US Capitol Police, 2:49:13.600 --> 2:49:16.040 Secret Service, TSA, DHS. 2:49:15.840 --> 2:49:16.440 And FBI. 2:49:16.879 --> 2:49:18.840 They were all in town as a part of the 2:49:18.920 --> 2:49:21.880 security detail. A few of the guys that messaged me 2:49:22.040 --> 2:49:24.800 I can absolutely confirm are one hundred percent police or 2:49:24.879 --> 2:49:28.040 some kind of military police. A thirty three year old 2:49:28.120 --> 2:49:32.280 cop or military guy quote looking for sexy bottoms with 2:49:32.440 --> 2:49:36.680 the tag's jock military discreete and weightlifting, as well as 2:49:36.760 --> 2:49:39.160 many pictures of him in the gym. Said it in 2:49:39.280 --> 2:49:42.640 his bio that he was quote really into slim skinny 2:49:42.800 --> 2:49:48.240 toned and muscular people. He messaged me saying, hey, now 2:49:48.840 --> 2:49:52.120 I got a lot of Hayese in my inbox, which 2:49:52.160 --> 2:49:56.119 is not unusual for Grinder. You will probably mostly get 2:49:56.440 --> 2:49:58.400 hay as a message as well as just like, you know, 2:49:58.440 --> 2:50:01.200 a picture of someone's penis, but between a penis and hey, 2:50:01.480 --> 2:50:03.840 those are probably the two most received messages you will 2:50:03.879 --> 2:50:06.879 get on Grinder. There was another guy with a username 2:50:07.280 --> 2:50:10.760 DL military who said in his bio he was working 2:50:10.879 --> 2:50:14.280 security for the week and that Grinder messages had completely 2:50:14.360 --> 2:50:17.599 broke for him and to instead message him on Snapchat. 2:50:18.400 --> 2:50:22.039 The DL in DL military stands for down low. It's 2:50:22.080 --> 2:50:25.160 a tag that only the worst people on Grinder will use, 2:50:25.280 --> 2:50:29.840 mainly like self hating gay men who are closeted and 2:50:29.959 --> 2:50:31.959 it's download because they don't want to be like publicly 2:50:32.040 --> 2:50:35.480 seen being gay. Just absolutely the worst. We do not 2:50:35.600 --> 2:50:39.680 fuck with DL, both literally and figuratively. There were a 2:50:39.720 --> 2:50:42.920 bunch of other non locals who I would describe as 2:50:43.400 --> 2:50:46.640 cop types. I can't one hundred percent say for sure 2:50:46.760 --> 2:50:49.920 that they are cops, but they have like the look, 2:50:50.080 --> 2:50:53.360 you know, like the look, the cop look. I don't know. 2:50:53.440 --> 2:50:56.160 They could also be like a bodyguard or working private security. 2:50:56.560 --> 2:51:00.880 But one of these cop looking guys message to me 2:51:01.000 --> 2:51:03.039 asking if I was a trans guy, which I always 2:51:03.120 --> 2:51:05.200 love to see. It means I'm doing gender very well. 2:51:05.760 --> 2:51:09.439 And a few other cop types sent relatively boring messages. 2:51:10.280 --> 2:51:12.120 So yeah, a lot of cops, which is not completely 2:51:12.160 --> 2:51:15.200 surprising considering the fact that basically half the cops in 2:51:15.240 --> 2:51:19.000 the country were at the Republican National Convention in some 2:51:19.280 --> 2:51:23.520 form or another. A few final notes, Now this didn't 2:51:23.560 --> 2:51:26.240 really make up a sizeable chunk of the Grinder population, 2:51:26.920 --> 2:51:30.440 but after saying I was just covering the RNC, a 2:51:30.520 --> 2:51:33.840 couple people on Grinder just completely unprompted told me that 2:51:33.959 --> 2:51:36.680 they were attending the protests against the RNC. 2:51:37.080 --> 2:51:37.840 Please do not do this. 2:51:38.080 --> 2:51:41.480 That's a horrible idea for multiple reasons. You gotta stop 2:51:41.520 --> 2:51:44.800 talking about your political activities on dating apps, especially Grinder, 2:51:44.920 --> 2:51:49.120 especially at the RNC. Horrible idea. Do not do this. 2:51:51.240 --> 2:51:55.440 And despite my lazy attempt at a young Republican disguised 2:51:55.520 --> 2:51:58.520 online profile, a few too many people did recognize me 2:51:58.600 --> 2:52:00.720 from Twitter or the pod, but they they were very nice. 2:52:00.760 --> 2:52:03.039 They gave me some recommendations for gay bars to check 2:52:03.080 --> 2:52:06.040 out after convention hours, and one person told me this 2:52:06.160 --> 2:52:09.240 interesting anecdote that I'd like to share. Quote, I don't 2:52:09.280 --> 2:52:11.720 think Trump is going to win. I can missed for 2:52:11.800 --> 2:52:15.000 Hillary in twenty sixteen, and at least here it doesn't 2:52:15.120 --> 2:52:15.960 feel the same. 2:52:16.400 --> 2:52:16.879 Unquote. 2:52:17.560 --> 2:52:19.280 I thought that was a little interesting tinbit that I 2:52:19.400 --> 2:52:21.840 received at probably round three am on grinder. 2:52:22.280 --> 2:52:23.200 So there you go. 2:52:23.640 --> 2:52:26.880 Anyway, that was my RNC Grinder experience. 2:52:27.400 --> 2:52:27.959 I'm sorry to. 2:52:28.000 --> 2:52:31.520 Report it is not the hotbed of closeted Republicans that 2:52:31.680 --> 2:52:34.920 we mean it to be. It's mostly local gaze, a 2:52:35.040 --> 2:52:38.760 few reporters and a few more cops. I do not 2:52:38.840 --> 2:52:42.360 think I'll be reporting on the DNC grinder, but I 2:52:42.480 --> 2:52:46.440 am curious to see if there is a sizeable increase 2:52:46.440 --> 2:52:51.080 in activity as compared to the RNZ Grinder. So I 2:52:51.160 --> 2:52:53.440 guess I will maybe posted by that on Twitter at 2:52:53.520 --> 2:52:56.520 Hungry bow Tie if you want updates on that. Anyway, 2:52:56.560 --> 2:52:59.160 Stay safe out there. Be careful if you're ever on grinder, 2:52:59.280 --> 2:53:03.040 please especially I don't tell someone covering the RNC that 2:53:03.160 --> 2:53:05.800 you're attending any protests, but in general, be careful on 2:53:05.840 --> 2:53:08.000 these types of dating apps, and I will see you 2:53:08.160 --> 2:53:15.000 on the other side. Message from Quickie Grinder said you 2:53:15.120 --> 2:53:18.080 were super close yesterday. Wasn't stalking? 2:53:18.200 --> 2:53:18.800 I promise? 2:53:19.480 --> 2:53:23.560 Message from birthday present emoji. I almost thought you were 2:53:23.640 --> 2:53:28.480 Josh Thomas. Message from anonymous. Wait are you pro or 2:53:28.560 --> 2:53:31.760 anti Republican? I'm not gonna lie. I mainly asked your 2:53:31.760 --> 2:53:33.680 politics because I thought you were cute, but I didn't 2:53:33.680 --> 2:53:37.040 want to hit on a Trumper message from older for 2:53:37.200 --> 2:53:40.440 young aren't all the delegates propositioning you? 2:53:40.879 --> 2:53:41.600 You're cute? 2:53:42.360 --> 2:53:47.480 Message from anonymous? Why establish a detlitarian state if I 2:53:47.600 --> 2:53:51.560 can't breed It's a dictator message from suck me off? 2:53:52.560 --> 2:53:53.680 I'm down for anything. 2:53:54.480 --> 2:53:54.840 Lol. 2:53:55.080 --> 2:53:56.240 Are you supporting Trump? 2:53:56.720 --> 2:53:57.000 Ha ha? 2:54:02.920 --> 2:54:03.080 Hey. 2:54:03.240 --> 2:54:06.320 We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 2:54:06.360 --> 2:54:08.039 now until the heat death of the Universe. 2:54:08.959 --> 2:54:11.320 It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 2:54:11.560 --> 2:54:14.200 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:54:14.280 --> 2:54:17.360 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 2:54:17.400 --> 2:54:20.720 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 2:54:20.800 --> 2:54:23.440 find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 2:54:23.520 --> 2:54:26.720 Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.