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Speaker 1: Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to let you know this is a compilation episode. So

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Speaker 1: every episode of the week that just happened is here

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Speaker 1: in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for

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Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.

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Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, But

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Scheren, Hi James, I was alarming.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I went in to like twenty tens YouTube boys.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Hi, James is excited today I am excited.

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Speaker 3: I'm always excited to make a podcast, you know, I

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Speaker 3: love to cast a pod, but today I am especially

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Speaker 3: especially with an X like Expresso the coffee drink. I

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Speaker 3: am especially excited to talk to you, Cherene, because we

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Speaker 3: are talking about a subject which I have wasted far

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Speaker 3: too much of my life reading and writing about. What

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Speaker 3: are we talking about, Sharen? Sports? Sports?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sports. I'm going to explain to Sharen sports why

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Speaker 3: they're fun or I did too many of them? Okay,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about the Olympics, the Olympic Games specifically. I

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Speaker 3: guess they're happening in Paris this year. They may be

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Speaker 3: happening in Paris by the time you listen to this.

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Speaker 3: But I want to talk a little bit about the

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Speaker 3: history of Olympics because I wrote a book about it,

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Speaker 3: and so I get to drawing on about it for

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Speaker 3: half an hour and you have to listen to me

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Speaker 3: while you drive your cars to work. Cool. The mon

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Speaker 3: Olympic Games is it draws links to ancient Greece, right,

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Speaker 3: And it does that because at the time that the

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Speaker 3: modern Olympic Games in the late nineteenth century were being

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Speaker 3: created by a guy called Baron Pierre de Kubitain, the

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Speaker 3: aristocracy of Europe were obsessed with drawing links to the

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Speaker 3: classical period.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: This is the same time when we see all those

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Speaker 3: like neoclassical buildings going up, and people were trying to

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Speaker 3: draw links between themselves and the ancient Greeks and to

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Speaker 3: sort of posit themselves as the new Greco Roman font

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Speaker 3: of civilization.

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Speaker 2: And hey, I took our history, and I minor to that,

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Speaker 2: so I know stuff too.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, because I did not take our history. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you know more kinds of stuff about like

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Speaker 3: impressionists and Shure I understand. So if we're looking at like,

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Speaker 3: to understand the Olympics, we have to understand sport, right,

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Speaker 3: and to understand sport, we have to understand play. So

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Speaker 3: I was right about sports. You don't have to Yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 3: you agree, you're right on it. Yeah, but first we

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Speaker 3: do play, right. So if we're looking at like kind

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Speaker 3: of the classic text on this, it's it's a book

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Speaker 3: called Homo Ludens, but we probably don't need to read that.

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Speaker 3: It's not a banger. We very few academic books are bangers.

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Speaker 3: I like to think mine's in a sort of semi

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Speaker 3: banging category. But yeah, it's also overpriced and you shouldn't

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Speaker 3: buy it. Just go to your library and get it

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Speaker 3: for free. Play is it's pretty obvious what play is.

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Speaker 3: It's the difference between play and sport is that sport

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Speaker 3: is bounded. It happens in a certain place, within a

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Speaker 3: certain set of rules. Play doesn't. So the archetypal kind

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Speaker 3: of example of transitioning from play to sport would be

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Speaker 3: folk football in Britain. So back in the day, in

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Speaker 3: the place where I come from, for holidays, the Saints'

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Speaker 3: Days and other days when people didn't work, they would

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Speaker 3: have a game of football which consisted of a ball

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Speaker 3: inflated pigs bladder or a similar similar device, and you

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Speaker 3: have to get it from one village into the other village.

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Speaker 3: And those are about all the rules, right. Sometimes they

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Speaker 3: had specific rules against stabbing. There have been like an

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Speaker 3: outbreak of stabbing incidents, but other than that, it was

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Speaker 3: pretty much you do what the fuck you wanted, right.

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Speaker 3: You want to go on a five mile detour and

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Speaker 3: come around people come in the back way, no problem.

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Speaker 3: You're on a form of phalanx of all your mates

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Speaker 3: and just kind of go through like a wedge style.

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Speaker 3: Not a problem at all. You know, you want to

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Speaker 3: start hitting people with sticks, yeah, not an issue. It

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Speaker 3: was very loose, right, and every village or pair of

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Speaker 3: villages that will play had their own kind of understanding

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Speaker 3: of the rules, but it wasn't a codified set of

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Speaker 3: rules in existed across all incidences of folk football. And

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Speaker 3: we go from there to association football. Right, That's where

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Speaker 3: soccer comes from, right, ass soccer soccer association becomes assoc

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Speaker 3: assoc becomes a soccer that becomes soccer. Does that make sense, kin, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to say yes. It's a very like nineteenth

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Speaker 3: century posh British effect that takes the word association football

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Speaker 3: and comes out with soccer. That's so funny. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: where it comes from. So association football codifires the rules. Right,

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Speaker 3: there's a pitch that pitches the same size as a goal.

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Speaker 3: The goal is the same size. You can't pick it

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Speaker 3: up now, And from that comes rugby football, right, So

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Speaker 3: rugby football is type where you pick up the ball.

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Speaker 3: There's a kind of founding myth for rugby football that

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Speaker 3: this guy called William ware bellis with a glorious disregard

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Speaker 3: for the rules. Quote, picked up the ball and ran

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Speaker 3: with it. It's a bit weird that, like they've created

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Speaker 3: a founding this for due to effectively just like sucked

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Speaker 3: at football. So he picked it up and ran with it.

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Speaker 3: Like it doesn't seem like he deserves a literal statue

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Speaker 3: that he has. Yeah, and that happened at Rugby School, right,

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Speaker 3: which was one of these English boarding schools that existed

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Speaker 3: to prepare young men to be officers and administrators in

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Speaker 3: the British Empire. And that is really what's the codification

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Speaker 3: of sport as far as we can sort of create

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Speaker 3: like a reason for it is to prepare young men

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Speaker 3: and just men to be administrators in the British Empire. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's supposed to make them physically strong. It's supposed to

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Speaker 3: make them obey the rules and learn to do what

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Speaker 3: they're told, even in stressful situations. Right, it's part of

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Speaker 3: an idea called muscular Christianity. And like, as far as

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Speaker 3: we can attribute this whole combination of things to one person,

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Speaker 3: it would be Thomas Arnold. Right, Thomas Arnold being the

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Speaker 3: headmaster at Rugby School, he develops his idea of educating

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Speaker 3: young Christian men and doing so using sport as well

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Speaker 3: as academia and sports very quickly develop a set of

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Speaker 3: rules around amateurism. Amateurism like sometimes we just use amateur

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Speaker 3: now to me not very good, but at the time

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Speaker 3: its specifically meant not paid to do the sport. And

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Speaker 3: so yeah, this is the early Olympics. Actually, the Olympics

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Speaker 3: still relatively recently have an amateurism rule, right that people

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Speaker 3: can't participate if they are paid to do the sport.

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Speaker 3: They have exemptions for fencing coaches, which I think tells

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Speaker 3: you about everything you need to know that this isn't

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Speaker 3: this isn't there for any purity reason. It's there to

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Speaker 3: serve as a class barrier, right, And we see it

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Speaker 3: used as a class barrier first of all in football, right,

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Speaker 3: Like that's why we have rugby league at rugby union

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Speaker 3: because the rugby league people tended to be working people

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Speaker 3: and they needed to be paid. It's the rugby league

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Speaker 3: allowed for professionalism. Rugby union did not, and those tended

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Speaker 3: to be wealthier people, right. But it's used at the

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Speaker 3: Olympics extensively to police class. Like probably the most prominent

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Speaker 3: example would be Jim Thorpe. You're familiar with Jim Thorpe.

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Speaker 3: Jim Thorpe's the cool guy. Actually, I got to read

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Speaker 3: some of his correspondents. He actually wrote a history of

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Speaker 3: the Olympic Games, which is very sad when you consider

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Speaker 3: that Jim Thorpe himself he's a member of the sac

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Speaker 3: and Fox Nation, right, so he's indigenous to North America.

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Speaker 3: He won a medal for the United States in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen twelve Semmer Olympics who went to Gold Males actually

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Speaker 3: won in pentathlon and won decathlon. So like decathletes are

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Speaker 3: kind of like the uber athletes, right, Like you're doing

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Speaker 3: ten ten different sports that you have to just be

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Speaker 3: good at exercising, and Jim Thorpe was good at exercising.

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Speaker 3: He also played collegiate and professional football, professional baseball, and

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Speaker 3: professional basketball. See he's an all around sport to dad. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: he lost his Olympic title because he had been paid

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Speaker 3: at some point for playing baseball, even though he didn't

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Speaker 3: do baseball in the Olympics. That's all fucked. Yeh. It's

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Speaker 3: very clearly used as a way to class and race

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Speaker 3: police the games, right, And I think this gets to

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Speaker 3: our point about what the Olympics are. So the early

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Speaker 3: Olympics tend to coincide with what are called World's Fairs.

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Speaker 3: Familiar with worlds Fairs shreen Yeah, yeah, yeah. People sort

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Speaker 3: of get together and they have these big exhibitions and

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Speaker 3: they show off there you know if you really got

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Speaker 3: yeah us whatever, Yeah, look what I stole from this

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Speaker 3: country that I have colonized and under force extracted these

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Speaker 3: the following things. If you're in Britain, like the most

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Speaker 3: famous sort of Worlds Fair site would be Crystal Palace, right,

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Speaker 3: Crystal Palace was built, burned down, but it was built

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Speaker 3: for the Worlds Fair. If you're in San Diego, Balboa Park,

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Speaker 3: right was built fourteen. Yeah, yeah, I feel like I

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Speaker 3: knew that somewhere in my head. Yeah, when you go

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Speaker 3: to Balboa Park, little niche San Diego diversion for the

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Speaker 3: millions of you are not in San Diego, you can

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Speaker 3: just tune out for ten seconds. Those are little cottages

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Speaker 3: like the Internet national Cottages and Palestine House and yeah,

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Speaker 3: Palestine House. Cool that they got recognition in San Diego.

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Speaker 3: At least those are from the World's Fair. Each country

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Speaker 3: would have that little exhibition in their house right and

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Speaker 3: all down the Prado. So yeah, that's actually has zoo

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Speaker 3: started as well. Someone in their exhibition had lions and

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Speaker 3: then fucking left them when they left, and they were like, uh,

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Speaker 3: I guess we better start a zoo. Got a couple

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Speaker 3: of lions on our hands. Yeah, incredible, incredible vibes. So

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Speaker 3: the Olympics happen at the same time as Worlds for

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Speaker 3: its a long time, and that is because the Olympics

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Speaker 3: are essentially a gathering of transnational borche worse he That's

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Speaker 3: not a phrase I came up with myself. It's from

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Speaker 3: my friend David Goldblat, who's written a really excellent history

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Speaker 3: of Olympics. That's called the Games. And if you're going

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Speaker 3: to read one book about the Olympics, that it should

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Speaker 3: be David's book. He's a lovely guy. I'm sure he's

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Speaker 3: not listening, hello, David. If you are, I would recommend

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Speaker 3: his book because I think his analysis is great, right,

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Speaker 3: that what these become is a place where the sort

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Speaker 3: of the that people who make money from finance capital

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Speaker 3: all around the world can gather together and share their

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Speaker 3: little ideas and play their little games. And we see that,

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Speaker 3: for instance, in the nineteen oh four Saint Lewis Olympics.

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Speaker 3: Saint Louis. In addition to like the World's Fair, they

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Speaker 3: have the Olympics and they have something called the Anthropological Days.

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Speaker 3: Have you heard about this, Sharne oh Willieve, I have no.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the more fuck things happen in Saint Louis,

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Speaker 3: which I think is saying a lot. They essentially kidnapped

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Speaker 3: people from around their various imperial possessions, brought them to

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Speaker 3: Saint Louis, which in itself is a crime, and then

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Speaker 3: forced them to compete in events that they didn't fully

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Speaker 3: explain to them. What the fuck yeah, and then concluded

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Speaker 3: from this that like white people were better.

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Speaker 2: It's like some gladiator shit that's like, yeah, yes, what

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Speaker 2: are you doing? That's too modern, that's too hard to happen.

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Speaker 3: This is nineteen oh four, yeah, not so long ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: very yeah, And this kind of exhibits what the world's

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Speaker 3: fairs we're into and to agree to a degree like

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Speaker 3: what the Olympiad became, which was like a way for

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Speaker 3: the colonizing powers to get together. Right, right, do you

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Speaker 3: know what will not kidnap you from your home country

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Speaker 3: and fly you to Saint Louis and then force you

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Speaker 3: to compete in games that you don't understand? Gold? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're probably right. Well, indirectly it will, you know, because

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Speaker 3: as a sort of source of wealth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, okay, whatever, I was trying to make a

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Speaker 2: trying to think of something that I might hear next.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's probably gold.

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Speaker 6: You're right, we're back, and we hope you have bought

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Speaker 6: your gold, the only the only metal that you can

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Speaker 6: make an Olympic medal out of.

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Speaker 3: Incidentally, really, and we'll go over to gold. Oh really,

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Speaker 3: deturned green. I get like you're like, it's it's not

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Speaker 3: good for my skin.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll get like infections, but like I'll get like

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Speaker 2: an exemer kind of reaction.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, what do you? Uh? Did you have an

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Speaker 3: alternative jewelry?

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Speaker 2: I don't wear a lot of jewelry. I wear rings

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Speaker 2: the most, but I can't wear ear rings anymore. They're

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Speaker 2: too My ears are too sensitive. I usually like stick

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Speaker 2: with silver if I have to. But yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Not meant to be rich, no shame. Maybe maybe platinum

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Speaker 3: is what's Oh yeah I could do platinum. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: listeners sen cherine platinum do hickeys? Well yeah, to wear? Yeah? Gold?

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Speaker 3: They so they lipic metals are not solid gold, they're

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Speaker 3: just gold coated. Interesting. Yeah, it's a little cheap. Yeah yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: like you spend your whole life something. Then they did

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Speaker 3: chips off. Yeah, yeah, you drop it and it's just

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Speaker 3: plastic in the middle. I guess they have more values

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Speaker 3: on pic metals than they do as lumps of gold. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: you can sell them, and people have sold them online because,

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Speaker 3: as it turns out, like spending your entire youth exercising

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Speaker 3: and then getting to a point where you're too injured

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Speaker 3: or old to compete, it's sometimes not great for your

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Speaker 3: future career prospects and I've unfortunately seen lots of friends

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Speaker 3: take that path. And so I want to talk about

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Speaker 3: like the Olympics in the twentieth century, and specifically I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about the Olympics in the nineteen thirties. Right,

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Speaker 3: so when the Olympics. By the time we come to

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Speaker 3: the nineteen thirties, the Olympics have really become like they're

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Speaker 3: an American thing. The Los Angeles Olympics gives us a

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Speaker 3: lot of the modern Olympics, and the rest of the

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Speaker 3: mode Olympics we get from friend of the podcast Adolf

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Speaker 3: Hitler and his Nazi party. Of course, yeah, I knew

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Speaker 3: that you were expecting them. We never never don't expect Hitler.

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Speaker 3: So nineteen thirty two is great. Like nineteen thirty two

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Speaker 3: Olympic village. They build this Olympic village. They haven't patrolled

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Speaker 3: by cowboys, just like Hollywood cosplay Dude joh On horses

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Speaker 3: cowboy and around. It's the first. It's very weird. It's

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Speaker 3: the first Olympic village. And it's it becomes a real

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Speaker 3: estate investment, right like as soon as the Olympics are

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Speaker 3: done there in classic Los Angeles fashion, flipping the houses

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Speaker 3: for more than they were paid. So it also creates

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Speaker 3: this idea of like the Olympics as a mass spectacle

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Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty two is sometimes called the Hollywood Olympics, right,

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Speaker 3: and it really changes the game from rich people getting

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Speaker 3: together for rich people to a spectator event and a

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Speaker 3: mass spectator event. In nineteen thirty one, Spain's Dicta Blander

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Speaker 3: collapses and Dicta Blander is like a soft dictatorship as

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Speaker 3: opposed to Dictadoro as a hard dictatorship. Right, So, and

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Speaker 3: Spain becomes a republic. Nineteen thirty one. It's also the

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Speaker 3: time when the International Olympic Committee is meeting in Barcelona,

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Speaker 3: and for geographically challenged listeners Barcelona, it's in Catalonia, but

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Speaker 3: Catalonia is within Spain at this time. So the IOC

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Speaker 3: is all most entirely comprised of very rich people, and

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Speaker 3: many of them are like barons, counts, princes, other people

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Speaker 3: who like their job is being someone's kid, right, and

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Speaker 3: they just do things like being on the IOC to

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Speaker 3: occupy them what they spend their parents' money. So they're

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Speaker 3: in Spain at the time when Spain has just deposed

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Speaker 3: a monarch and it has this revolutionary republic, right, the

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Speaker 3: anarchists are in the street. It's about to begin a

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Speaker 3: campaign of two years of removing the church from its

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Speaker 3: official position, like anti clericalism and of land reform. These

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Speaker 3: are things which rich people do not like. And so

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Speaker 3: the vote happens in Barcelona about where to hold the

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Speaker 3: next Olympics, and the two leading candidates are Berlin and Barcelona.

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Speaker 3: After Barcelona, I think a little weird happens. See IOC

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Speaker 3: members all go home and not everyone has come to Barcelona,

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Speaker 3: right because of the because of the change in the situation,

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Speaker 3: and instead of being like, okay, well we had a

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Speaker 3: vote in Barcelona one, the IOC makes an interesting and

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Speaker 3: relatively unique decision to have another vote by telegram, and

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Speaker 3: in the telegram vote they instead of going for the

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Speaker 3: unstable Spanish Second Republic, up for a more stable and

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Speaker 3: liberal democracy, which is of course viy my Germany. Of course, yeah,

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Speaker 3: good choice by their better rich folks. They really helped

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Speaker 3: us out there, and it's very interesting, Like I've spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of time with these telegrams, like the actual

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Speaker 3: paper telegrams in the International Olympic Committee archive in Lausanne,

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Speaker 3: trying to ascertain did they just like did the vote happen.

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Speaker 3: And then they were like, no, fuck, we can't go

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Speaker 3: to Barcelona, like we got to redo, We've got to

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Speaker 3: work out way to dig this, like we can't go

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Speaker 3: to this republican place, or that they claimed that there

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Speaker 3: weren't enough votes, right, that they didn't have like a quorum.

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Speaker 3: But I've looked at previous and subsequent votes, and there

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Speaker 3: are there are plenty of other votes that have fewer participants,

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Speaker 3: And it was relatively normal at this time for not

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Speaker 3: everyone to show up at a meeting, right Because it's

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirty one, Traveling is hard, and so I can't

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Speaker 3: categorically say what's happened. But maybe that's what I suspect

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Speaker 3: has happened. I can't really see any way I could

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Speaker 3: find out now, and as I went to every member

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Speaker 3: of the International Olympic Committee at the time and looked

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Speaker 3: in their personal archive. But either way, they decided to

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Speaker 3: give the Olympics to this little place called firemar Germany

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Speaker 3: in between ninety thirty one and nineteen thirty six. History

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Speaker 3: fans will know that the Nazis game to parent Germany.

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Speaker 3: Nazis not very nice people and no bad Many people

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Speaker 3: are saying, yeah, many people are saying the mosquitoes of

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Speaker 3: the world. Not sorry, we just recorded the Mosquito episode. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: in any ways, like the mosquito could be eradicated, maybe

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be bad. Yeah, my favorite georgiowelline one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite joints or all lines. I joined the militia to

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Speaker 3: kill a fascist because if all of us did so,

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Speaker 3: then there wouldn't be any of them left. Wow. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: very prescient. So the Olympics, when the Nazis going to power,

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Speaker 3: first they want to do away with it. Right then

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Speaker 3: when they're like, fuck this, this is some bougie shit.

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Speaker 3: We're not into it. We don't want to see other people,

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Speaker 3: we don't care about other nations with arians. And then

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Speaker 3: over time the administrators of the Olympics, including guy called

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Speaker 3: Carl DM who would be classified, according to the nazis

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Speaker 3: own sort of standards, as a Jewish person, they persuade

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Speaker 3: the Nazis that having the Olympics will be good for them.

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Speaker 3: It will let them exhibit their shit on a world scale.

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Speaker 3: And they are not wrong. Right, The Olympics turned into

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Speaker 3: a massive boon for Nazi Germany. We don't have enough

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Speaker 3: time in this short episode to explain the whole boycott movement.

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Speaker 3: There was a substantial boycott movement, including in the United States.

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Speaker 3: The United States very nearly boycotted the Berlin Olympics, but

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Speaker 3: in the end it ended up not doing so you

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Speaker 3: had opposition from really interesting groups. Actually had opposition obviously

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Speaker 3: from Jewish groups, right because Nazis. You have opposition from

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Speaker 3: elements of an NAACP, but not from other elements because

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Speaker 3: they have this very reasonable objection. They're like, well, America

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Speaker 3: is also racist as fuck. Actually, like we also like

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Speaker 3: this is a time where we exclude black folks from

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Speaker 3: a lot of yeah, not yeah, And so you have

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Speaker 3: black folks boycotting, and you have black folks being like, now,

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Speaker 3: fuck it, like we'll take the chance, you know. And

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Speaker 3: then you have the opposition from an interesting group like

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Speaker 3: the liberal Catholics, right, because the Nazis had their own

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Speaker 3: ideas on religion, and so a lot of Catholics were

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Speaker 3: anti Nazi at that point, including Jeremiah Mahony, who was

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Speaker 3: president of the Amateur Athletic Union at the time, who

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Speaker 3: was kind of leading the boycott movement. The United States

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Speaker 3: decides not to boycott, lots of other places in the

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Speaker 3: world decide that they are going to boycott, right, and

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Speaker 3: lots of other people around the world. And that's where Barcelona.

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Speaker 3: They had a conference in Paris, actually the International Conference

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Speaker 3: for the Respect of the Olympic Ideal, and that is

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Speaker 3: the conference out of which the bars that remember bars

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Speaker 3: Oonner applied in thirty one. Right, So they have all

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Speaker 3: their shit together. They actually have the site of a

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Speaker 3: former World's Fair and that's what they're going to use.

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Speaker 3: So the Catalans come to this conference in April of

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Speaker 3: thirty six and are like, hey, we can have another Olympics,

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Speaker 3: which isn't shit, And they go ahead and have their

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Speaker 3: Olympics and shit, now first happened the Nazi Olympics, Right.

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Speaker 3: The Nazi Olympics give us so much of what we

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Speaker 3: consider to be the Olympic tradition today. The torch relay,

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Speaker 3: you know, the torch relay. They go to Olympia and

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00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 3: bring the flame. Yeah, that's a Nazi thing. Actually, it

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00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 3: comes from the Nazis. The idea of drawing a link

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Speaker 3: from ancient Greece to Berlin was a Nazi idea. Why

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Speaker 3: don't we still do it? Yeah, that's a good question, Sharen.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it a good question. As we enter the Paris Olympics.

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Speaker 3: One thing they have done away was the Olympic salute

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Speaker 3: because it bears an unfortunate resemblance to the Nazis. So

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Speaker 3: they also start in no, the Olympic salute predates it.

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Speaker 3: So you have these interesting mark people march like were

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Speaker 3: they the parade at the opening ceremony of the Olympics, right,

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Speaker 3: and lots of these The pageantry of the opening ceremony

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00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 3: also comes from the Nazis, by the way, And we

387
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Speaker 3: got people walking in and the French come in and

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Speaker 3: they're doing a salute, and people like, is that the

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Speaker 3: Nazi salute they're doing? It's at the Olympic salute. I'm

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Speaker 3: pretty sure it's the Olympic salute. I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 2: If it's too close, I think it's bad. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think getting confused for something else.

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Speaker 3: I think I think you should stop. Yeah. I just

394
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Speaker 3: tried to not do things that look like gunsi kilink like.

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Speaker 3: That is how I how I live my life. You

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Speaker 3: have other nations who don't do it, right. You have

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Speaker 3: the Americans. The Americans traditionally in the so they're supposed

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Speaker 3: to dip their flag. The Americans have never dipped their

399
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Speaker 3: flag and Olympic opening ceremonies. So sometimes you'll see this written

400
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Speaker 3: as like, yeah, the Americans said, fuck, hey, they didn't.

401
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Speaker 3: They just did what they'd always done and which was

402
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Speaker 3: to not dip their flag, and that that Olympiad is

403
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 3: a great success for Hitler, right, Like this is where

404
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 3: a lot of this like, oh, but yeah, he's very efficient.

405
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 3: He makes a trains run on time. Kind of shit

406
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 3: comes from, right. They use it as a pageant and

407
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 3: they downplay their racism. They include a couple of Jewish

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Speaker 3: athletes on their team, which is one of the demands

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Speaker 3: of Avery. Brandage, head of the American Olympic Committee. Brandage

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Speaker 3: Brandish is an interesting dude. Brandage. You can read more

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Speaker 3: about Brandage in my book Rubber Did Behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 3: On Brandage, I don't think he begins the nineteen thirties

413
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Speaker 3: is an anti Semite. But after the boycott campaign, which

414
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: he calls a Jewish Communist conspiracy, well yeah, he absolutely

415
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: becomes an anti Semite. Like he grows closer to Hitler

416
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Speaker 3: when other because like his idea is that politics shouldn't

417
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Speaker 3: influence the games, which is inherently a political choice. When

418
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 3: the games have been given to fucking Adolf Hitler. So

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Speaker 3: the ninety thirty six Olympics go ahead in Germany, lots

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Speaker 3: of fascism, lots of zeg hiling, a real success for Hitler.

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Speaker 3: Ninety thirty six Olympics in Barcelona don't go ahead because

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Speaker 3: the Spanish Civil War. The Barcelona Olympics are like an

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Speaker 3: alternative to the Berlin Olympics. Yeah, at this time, also,

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00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 3: it should be pointed out that you got the Winter

425
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Speaker 3: Olympics when you've got the Olympics. So the Nazi had

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Speaker 3: already had their garments part in Kirshen Winter Olympics and

427
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: had predicted to be done a bunch of Nazi shit right,

428
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 3: which didn't stop anyone going to the Summer Olympics. Saran,

429
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: do you know what won't do a bunch of Nazi

430
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 3: ship what? James, it's the products and services that support

431
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 3: this show, Saran. I found it.

432
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 2: It's easier instead of trying to come up with something

433
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: just to give you the question right now.

434
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, damn foiled again way back. So yeah, these Olympics

435
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: they're supposed to have in Barcelona, they don't happen because

436
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 3: of Spanish Civil war starts at the same time. Right,

437
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 3: lots of these anti fascist athletes go on to participate

438
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 3: as fighters in the Spanish Civil War, about four hundred

439
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 3: of them. The popul Olympics are call The main reason

440
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: they're call is because I've written a book about them,

441
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: but other reasons include that they had like elite amateur

442
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 3: and then provincial races, so like you could just show

443
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 3: up and be like, yeah, man, I'm just going to

444
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 3: fucking check my hand the ring one hundred meters, let's

445
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 3: see how I do, and there would be a place

446
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 3: for you to compete.

447
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 7: Right.

448
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: It wasn't about who was a freak athlete. They were

449
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 3: really interested in working class health. So for that reason,

450
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 3: they also had like these mass relay events where you'd

451
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 3: have like the fifty by twenty five meters or the

452
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 3: ten by fifty meters, and you couldn't have all runners.

453
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 3: So the idea was that the country that would win

454
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 3: or the nation that would win. Right, They competed as

455
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 3: nations rather than states, So the exiled Jews of Europe

456
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: competed together for the obvious reason that, like, if you're

457
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: a German Jew in nineteen thirty six, you don't want

458
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 3: to compete for fucking Germany, so even at the Populalympics,

459
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: they competed to Jewish workers sports associations. And you have

460
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 3: exiled and anti fascists from Germany and Italy competing under

461
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 3: their own banners. And you have Glicia, Catalonia Skendy, the

462
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: Basque country competing s own ould nations, right, and the

463
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: same with the colonized people of North Africa. And you

464
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: have the women students of the world with their own

465
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: old team, which is nice. They also made a big

466
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: deal of including women, allowing women to do sports that

467
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 3: men do at the time in nineteen thirty six women

468
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 3: can run more than two hundred meters. Well, but they

469
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: actually could, as it turns out, Yeah, yeah, right, they

470
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 3: just weren't allowed to c Yeah, shocking discovery. They didn't

471
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 3: just involve that capacity since thirty six. But these Olympics

472
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 3: don't go ahead because the Spanish evil War starts. Lots

473
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 3: of the anti fascist affete who came state to fight, right,

474
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 3: including people I've written about in my book. We did

475
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 3: a whole cool people who did cool stuff about this.

476
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 3: So you can listen to more if you want to.

477
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 3: In Margaret's feed. I'm sure if you search popular Olympics

478
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 3: will be there. By the way, you sometimes see it

479
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 3: translated as People's Olympics. I prefer popular because it's inherently

480
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 3: tied to the idea of a popular front, right, which

481
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 3: is a policy of like united front between everyone from

482
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: the liberals to the communists to the anarchists against fascism.

483
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: Sometimes the anarchists don't participate in the popular Front because

484
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 3: it is dominated by communists, and the communists, in fact

485
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: love to kill anarchists a lot more than they love

486
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 3: to kill fascists, and they use the Popular Front as

487
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: cover for doing that, as we see in Spain. But

488
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 3: the anarchists did participate in workers or popular sport in Barcelona,

489
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: at least to an extent. So these games that said,

490
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: they don't happen. You can read about that in my book,

491
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: or you can listen to Margaret's podcast about it. But

492
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: I want to talk about what the Olympics represent today,

493
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 3: the modern Olympics. Right, they have become as they always were. Right,

494
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 3: they continue to be a spectacle that they've been since

495
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 3: thirty two, and they continue to be a vehicle for

496
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 3: capitalism as they have been forever. Right, if we look

497
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 3: at their research, Olympic Games. Right, we look at London,

498
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 3: we look at Rio. I think Rio is a really

499
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 3: great example, right the Olympics, that they were able to

500
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: clear areas of the city using the potential Olympics. Right,

501
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 3: displace favela communities, displace poor and excluded and marginalized people,

502
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: and take advantage of incredibly underpaid labor. And there's probably

503
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 3: it's a bit rarer now. But for like most of

504
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: the last eight years, you've met Haitian folks in Tijuana

505
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: mostly right, the US has been especially racist and bigoted

506
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 3: towards Haitians, and you can I wrote a piece for

507
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 3: NBC about Biden's hypocracy on Haitian immigration. But there were

508
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: people who had worked on the Olympic Stadium in Brazil. Right,

509
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 3: So they've gone from Haiti, like after the earthquake or

510
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 3: the economic and political issues, so they've had ever since

511
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: the earthquake, they've gone to Brazil. And then they've worked

512
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: in Brazil building the stadia, getting paid fuck all and

513
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: doing dangerous work. And then eventually I've been able to

514
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: find work that visas had run out or they'd otherwise

515
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 3: chosen to come north to the United States, and they

516
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 3: often end up not being able to they end up

517
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 3: stuck in Tijuana or living in Tijuana and find finding

518
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: work there. Right, So often Olympics take advantage of migrant labor.

519
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 3: They are used as a means of like reshaping the

520
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 3: city into like sculpting it under capitalism, right, pushing folks

521
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 3: out of their neighborhoods. They don't do the Olympics in

522
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: bougie neighborhoods. They use it as an excuse to gentrify

523
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 3: a neighborhood, to remove in trenched working class communities. Yeah,

524
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: Like it's really sad. It's when I read so much

525
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: of the stuff about, like specifically the Barcelona Olympic Games,

526
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: Like we see these people who are unquestionably good people, right,

527
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: Like they genuinely believe that through what they see is

528
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 3: the ideal of the Olympics, they can liberate women. They

529
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: the Barcelona organizers so like, they didn't have much money, right,

530
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: they were putting people up. And I found these forms

531
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: in the arch if they'd go around people's houses and

532
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: be like, hey, do you have a spare bedroom? And

533
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: in the form you can tick I have one, two,

534
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: three spare bedrooms. I can serve breakfast. I can't serve

535
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: breakfast and that's how they would bill at the athletes, right,

536
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: the athletes didn't have an Olympic village. They had a

537
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 3: hotel and then any surp plus you would just stay

538
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: with with a local person. It was a very different

539
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 3: vision of what the Olympics could have been. Right. They

540
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: really believed in the youth of the world coming together.

541
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: They really thought that at the popul Olympics they could

542
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: show the strength of anti fascism, that anti fishing wasn't

543
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: just a talking point, that it was that it was

544
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 3: young and it was healthy, and like most importantly, that

545
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: they could fucking kill you, right, like that that sport

546
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 3: all Well again double or Well quote episode or Well

547
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 3: called sport War without the shooting, and I think he's

548
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: spot on. Actually it is good. He's got some bangos

549
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: sharene you do say that, Yeah, he's a word guy,

550
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 3: George Orwell. People do love to misquote George your Well,

551
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: but I like to quote him correctly. You know you

552
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: can you can always when someone misquote Georgia Will you

553
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 3: can always just quote tweet them with the I had

554
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: joined them Unlicia to kill a fascist, right or the

555
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: other absolute banger from all Well. I have no particular

556
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: love for the idealized worker as he exists in the

557
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: mind of the bourgeois communists. But when I see a

558
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: real flesh and bug worker in conflict with his natural enemy,

559
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: the policeman, I don't have to ask myself which side

560
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: them on. Ooh, it's a banger, that's that's poetry. Yeah

561
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: it is. It's great. Like it's something that when I

562
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: get around, will have tattooed on my body maybe like

563
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: maybe when I have to cross fewer borders. It's probably

564
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: not something you want to be showing after the intelligence

565
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: agencies of various countries. Yeah, it's really sad to see

566
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: this thing, and I think it does have potential. I

567
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 3: think it's a potential. What I want to end on

568
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 3: is like I think we can recover that potential, Like

569
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 3: we can take the Olympics away from the people who

570
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: did nineteen oh four and the people who did nineteen

571
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: thirty six, and like it doesn't mean to have to

572
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 3: use that obviously that the IOC is not fucking coming

573
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 3: with us, right, I've been to the IOC, very nice building,

574
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: but like this is the you know, the the interests

575
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: of finance, capital and the interesting iOS here inherently tied

576
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: coca coat. Every massive corporation in the world is a

577
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 3: massive spot for the Olympics, right, And it's also been

578
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 3: a platform for some really good things that we think about.

579
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 3: Tommy Smith and John Carlos right at the ninety sixty

580
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 3: eight Olympics giving a raise fist salute on the podium.

581
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: I'm sure you've seen it. There's a statue of them,

582
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 3: several statues of them, I think, actually, but yeah, very

583
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: famous Olympic moment. The whole ninety sixty eight Olympics actually

584
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: kind of gave a platform for protest, and Parisians have

585
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 3: been protesting against this Olympics, and Angelino's are already protesting

586
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: against what it's going to happen in twenty eight. You

587
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: can look up no Olympics LA for those folks, and

588
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: I think that that is something that's worth supporting. I

589
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 3: don't think that the idea is inherently bad, the idea

590
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: of coming together to play and like sports are, where

591
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: we decide who's on our team and who's not on

592
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: our team, right, And what the popular Olympics did was

593
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: said working people are all on the same team. And

594
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 3: they've played that out right. The day the games were

595
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: supposed to start. Some of those athletes were in the

596
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: streets killing fascists and they weren't. Right that day, that

597
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: minitary coup failed in Barcelona, and a lot of them

598
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 3: left really feeling like they got something out of the

599
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: games that they couldn't have got, or that they came

600
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 3: to play and then they saw like what they were

601
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 3: playing for acted out. And I think there's still something

602
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: really powerful in that, but we can only get there

603
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: by acknowledging how fucked up the Olympics have always been.

604
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: I see this like liberal narratives that the Libs the

605
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: Olympics were once great and about sportsmanship and now they're

606
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: about capitalism. No fuck that, Like they have always been

607
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: inherently about capitalism, they've been inherently about colonialism, about eugenics. Right,

608
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 3: the medal table. We don't do the medal table for

609
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: shits and giggles. The medal table is there to prove

610
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: like the superiority of one race. Like that is why

611
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 3: Hitler is obsessed with the medal table. Right, He's extremely

612
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 3: worried that like either they like folks in the United States,

613
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 3: or like God forbid, the Japanese do well in the Olympics.

614
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: It's like, and then the Olympics trying to sort of

615
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: posit itself as inherently pro human rights I think is

616
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: very problematic when yeah, we look at like how Olympics

617
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: Stadia get constructed by whom they get constructed and where

618
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: they get constructed, Yeah, who they effect and yeah, and

619
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 3: who who they're for and who who they take from.

620
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: So I know, I'm not saying don't watch the Olympics.

621
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 3: Like when I was a kid, the Olympics were like

622
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: fucking formative in me wanting to do sports, and when

623
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: I was an athlete, the Olympics I wanted to do.

624
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 3: I have friends who are going to be at the Olympics,

625
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 3: and like, I guess I wish them the best, but

626
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 3: still a bad thing. And like I certainly don't blame

627
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: folks who come from like resource coorse settings for taking

628
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 3: that chance.

629
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: Of course, but it is like, yeah, the way it

630
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: currently is and the way it's always been is just.

631
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 3: Doesn't necessarily make the world a better place. But maybe

632
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: there's a.

633
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: Different timeline where I don't know, Barcelona's idealism of an

634
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: Olympics is like.

635
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: True, Yeah, I know, I think we can bring it back.

636
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 3: I think like antio fascism is having a moment that

637
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 3: it probably hasn't had it in to Nineteen's true, that's

638
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 3: very true in the last four years. Can we can

639
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: get together and we can have our own institutions too, Like,

640
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: I don't think we should abandon sport to the chuds,

641
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 3: of course, the chuds of like sport, Like, yeah, there's

642
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: a way.

643
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 2: But I also don't want anyone to use it as

644
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 2: a way to like not sports wash, but like kind

645
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 2: of focus on something that is not as relevant as

646
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: the bigger picture.

647
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 3: Does that make sense? Like it yeah, totally, Like, yeah,

648
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 3: it shouldn't be used to distract exactly, that's what that's

649
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 3: the short word. Yeah, And like it has been like

650
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 3: global sports are increasingly going to like Petro states in

651
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: the Middle East. Yeah, right, Like, and that is a problem.

652
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: I think if you're an athlete, I would encourage you

653
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 3: to really consider what your role is. I know some

654
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 3: of my friends listen who are still like professional athletes

655
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 3: and there just think about out what you can do,

656
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 3: and like, I will tell you that when you stop

657
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 3: getting paid to exercise, all of it seems very unimportant

658
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: and like you suddenly realize that in my case, but

659
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: there's important shit that you can do if you have

660
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: a chance to do it, and you should do it

661
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 3: if you get the chance. But yeah, I think hopefully,

662
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 3: you know, if people want to know more about the Populalympics,

663
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 3: I will fucking talk Carreer of med Email. Yeah, my book,

664
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: I think it might be on libcom now as well.

665
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 3: I think you can. I think it's been pirated, which

666
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,479
Speaker 3: is good to see. You can get it from your library.

667
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: I'd love you to get it from your library, because

668
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 3: the it's fair for someone else libraries. Yeah, I do

669
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 3: love a library. Yeah, we should do a library episode.

670
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 6: Yeah.

671
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: Well, I was trying to get the library San Diego

672
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: Library Association on because we've been defunding the libraries here

673
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 3: in San Diego to have more cops.

674
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fucking great. Yeah, no, I love the libraries.

675
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 2: Are just this I don't know, pure little place. We

676
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: got to do some library episodes.

677
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll do, and we we'll get them back. We'll

678
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 3: get the library. So if you work in a library

679
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: and the police are takeing away the money used to

680
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: read books of little children, you can you can DM

681
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 3: me on x dot com. Yeah, and we will fight

682
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: the good fight for you. Yeah, all right, that's uh,

683
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 3: that's that's been the Olympics. No, go, go forth, do

684
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: a little decathlon. Here's a fine Olympic fact for you,

685
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 3: a fun fun facts. End the episode. A general pattern, right,

686
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 3: American war guy entered the pentathlon at the Olympics and

687
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 3: used such a large pistol that they were unable to

688
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 3: determine the size of his grouping of shots on the

689
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 3: target because he just viscerated the whole target his handcannon. Yeah. So,

690
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: embody that the pentathlon a sport that was designed to

691
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: train offices. Right, you have to run, swim, ride a horse,

692
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 3: sword fight, and shoot. Yeah, so make a better pentathlon,

693
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 3: make make an anti fascist to cathalon. Yeah, send us

694
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 3: your You can tag us with your your decathlon ideas

695
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 3: on on x dot com. We both use at I write, Okay,

696
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 3: bizarrely we have the same the same Twitter handle. Yeah,

697
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 3: send us your sporting ideas. Enjoy your little Olympic viewing.

698
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 3: Now that I've ruined it all for you, I guess.

699
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's good to know context.

700
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, until next time, Until the next time you

701
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: and dreams talk about something either terrible or fun.

702
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: Or somewhere in between. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll yeah, we'll

703
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 3: be back seeing with something else. You'll never know what

704
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: These will always fucking just these must just come out

705
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 3: of left field for people like, what the fuck are

706
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 3: they talking about today?

707
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I'll ever know until you listen.

708
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 3: That's listen every day.

709
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 4: Bye bye bye.

710
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 7: Welcome to it up Here a podcast where I Lea

711
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 7: Wong have Readamala Harris's dad, Donald Harris's book. This is

712
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 7: This is the podcast that you're listening to now with

713
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 7: me to experience this actually genuinely fairly interesting work of

714
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 7: political economy.

715
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 3: Is James Stout. Hi, man, I'm so excited to know

716
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: what Donald has for us today. Me too.

717
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 7: I'm you know, I'm I'm of a bunch of minds

718
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 7: of this book because I think the the actual key

719
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 7: element of this book, which is called Capital Accumulation and

720
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 7: Income Distribution, is that it is unbelievably technically dense.

721
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 3: You know.

722
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 7: Okay, we're going to get into the book. First, we

723
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 7: sort we should talk a bit about who Donald Harris is.

724
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 7: So a lot of the focus around this is Kamala Harris,

725
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 7: the presumptive Democratic nominees dad. So a lot of the

726
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 7: media coverage around him is around him being a Marxist.

727
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 7: This is debatable obviously, is what I'm like the conclusion

728
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 7: I'm going to come out of this, But.

729
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 3: I'm shocked that people plan on media today might misunderstand

730
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 3: basic things about Marxism and who is and he's not

731
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 3: a Marxist, Yeah, I mean I think.

732
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 7: But so the thing about this book, So this book

733
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 7: is from nineteen seventy eight, which is actually after he

734
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 7: had broken up with Kamala's mom, and so Kamala doesn't

735
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 7: like know him super well.

736
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 3: Was he like not present in her younger life. Kamala's

737
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: mom and.

738
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 7: Dad divorced when she was like five, in like four

739
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 7: or five, So this is this is written about a

740
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 7: decade after that.

741
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, much like the New American Communist Party, like a

742
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 3: lot a lot of divorce guys just love to be Communists.

743
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 3: It's the thing about divorce guys. Oh god.

744
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 7: Yeah. So you know, one of the sort of the

745
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 7: thing everyone kind of cites about, like Donald Harris's politics,

746
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 7: that he was in this sort of like Black Studies,

747
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 7: like I guess proto Black Studies group that produced a

748
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 7: bunch of like black panthers produced a lot of very

749
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 7: radical people. But you know, the interesting thing about Donald

750
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 7: Harris is that he is not the Marxist that you

751
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 7: would expect to see coming out of sort of like

752
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 7: that Miliu, because those people's Marxism, you know, I mean,

753
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 7: he is very interested in sort of underdevelopment and you know,

754
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 7: sort of like imperialism, but he's he's not well from

755
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 7: one of the sort of like Baoists inflected kinds of Marxism,

756
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 7: which are the kinds that tended to be sort of

757
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 7: floating around.

758
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: Like that time.

759
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 7: He in fact, he is a very very rare kind

760
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 7: of Marxist, which is to say, well, A, he doesn't

761
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 7: call himself a Marxist. He calls himself a Marxi in

762
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 7: the entire time. But b yeah, in tolerable and we

763
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 7: don't understand what this is. So there's a very famous

764
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 7: marx quote where he's complaining about I think it was

765
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 7: something the German Social Democratic Party did or something where

766
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 7: he where people are calling themselves Marxists, and he goes,

767
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 7: and this is what if this is what Marxism is,

768
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 7: and I am not a Marxist. And so for one

769
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 7: hundred years, since then, one hundred and fifty years, people

770
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 7: have been calling themselves Marxians instead of Marxists.

771
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 3: But this is all over that book. I'm developing a

772
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: picture of a kind of guy, Oh yeah, panting me

773
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 3: a rich portrait man. Yeah so.

774
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 7: But the interesting part is he's what's known as a

775
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 7: post Kanesian and weirdly, dear listeners, you are you are

776
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 7: some of the only people in this entire country. You

777
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 7: have a prayer of knowing who these people are because

778
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 7: we've actually had a bunch of them on the show.

779
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 7: If if people remember the episodes that I did about

780
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 7: inflation over the last sort of like year, I guess,

781
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 7: like two years. I don't know it, it's been it's

782
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 7: been a long time. But the episode's about inflation that

783
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 7: we did with the with the folks over at Strange Matters.

784
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 7: Those people are the sort of the int one of

785
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 7: one of the groups that are the intellectual heirs to

786
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 7: sort of post Kanesianism. It's a you know, I guess

787
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 7: it's post Kansianism, is kind of it's I guess it's

788
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 7: like the largest of what's called the heterodox economics UH schools.

789
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 7: We're gonna get more into what it is later, because

790
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 7: it's not just like you know, so it's post Kanesian

791
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 7: after like John Vader Kanes, it's not really Canes and

792
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 7: that that's that's gonna become very important as second. But

793
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 7: you know this, this is sort of an issue because

794
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 7: it means that it's actually it's really really hard for

795
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 7: a normal person to figure out what the fuck is

796
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 7: going on with this book book. And this is something

797
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 7: that I discovered, you know, partially just from reading it,

798
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 7: and partially also I mean this like, I have a

799
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 7: pretty good background to do this, because I know a

800
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 7: lot of Postcansian economics, and I also have studied a

801
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 7: lot of Marks, and you need both of those to

802
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 7: be able to write about this. However, come I discovered

803
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 7: two hours to put this recording. I discovered that the

804
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 7: economist had set some hack who they refused to name,

805
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,479
Speaker 7: to write about this book, and this person managed, okay,

806
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 7: on top of just like straight up, like not literally,

807
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 7: their explanation of what the book is about is simply wrong.

808
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 7: In just four paragraphs, they managed to make an error

809
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 7: so egregious that if I had turned this shit into

810
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 7: my professor's in college, it would have failed before it

811
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 7: So okay, okay, So one of the things the author

812
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 7: talks about is this thing called the Cambridge capital controversy.

813
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 7: And this author claims that this controversy was fought between

814
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 7: the neo and post Kansians. Now, this is probably gibberish

815
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 7: to like nineteen percent of people listening to this, but

816
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 7: in terms of heterodox economics, this is the equivalent of

817
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 7: not knowing who fought in World War Two. Like this

818
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 7: is the Cambridge cancer controversy. Is It's it's basically these

819
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 7: single moments in which this kind of like this kind

820
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 7: of heterodox economics appears onto the economic scene in a

821
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 7: way that like they were able to force the sort

822
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 7: of mainstream neoclassical economists to take to pay attention to.

823
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 7: And this battle should, like intellectually should have completely destroyed

824
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 7: all of neoclassical economics. Right, everything you've ever heard about

825
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 7: how price equal supply and demand like so all those curves,

826
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 7: all of that is fucking bullshit. All of it was

827
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 7: destroyed by one single happening about the course of a

828
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 7: decade between the sort of post Knesians, mostly Serappha but

829
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 7: also Joe and Robinson I think actually started it. We're

830
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 7: gonna talk about those people more later. This is a

831
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 7: battle between them, and there is specifically the neoclassical economists,

832
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 7: and by the end of it, the neoclassical economists were

833
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 7: forced to admit that they couldn't they couldn't figure out

834
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 7: a way to like measure the value of a bundle

835
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 7: of like capital goods. So if you have two different machines,

836
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 7: neoclassical economy cannot tell you the value of And this

837
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,959
Speaker 7: this completely annihilates neoclassic economics. All of it is fucking

838
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 7: fake because you know, they need this for the production function.

839
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 7: Without the production function, like you can't even get to

840
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 7: supply and demand, right, every literally everything, all of their

841
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 7: stuff immediately falls apart. I'm not going to like attempt

842
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 7: to an explanation of the Cambridge capital controversy was what

843
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,479
Speaker 7: it was actually about here, because it's it's a little

844
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 7: bit it's something that you can understand, but it's a

845
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 7: little bit technical and it's hard to explain in podcast

846
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 7: form if you if you're really curious about this, the

847
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 7: book Capital as Power. Capital as Power has a really

848
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 7: great explanation of it in chapter five that's pretty short.

849
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 7: You can just literally find a PDF of Capital as

850
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 7: Power by just googling it. But this is a level

851
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 7: of sort of like confusion we're getting with here. We're

852
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 7: like the person the economist assigned to write this like

853
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 7: knows so little about it that and you know, the

854
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 7: other thing about this, this whole controversy is that the

855
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 7: Cambridge Cancel capital controversy is in the book, and in

856
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 7: the book, Donald Harris very specifically talks about the There's

857
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 7: an entire chapter of the book that it's just him

858
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 7: using the products of the Cambridge capital controversy to completely

859
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 7: destroy a classical economics.

860
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 3: This is an entire chapter of the book. And this

861
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 3: guy got who was about wrong? Right?

862
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 7: So this is a book that is is very very

863
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 7: easy to misinterpret and very very easy to sort of

864
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 7: not like you know, just to sort of like completely

865
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 7: misunderstand or bounce off of.

866
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 8: I it was.

867
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 7: It was hard for me, and like I'm pretty well

868
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 7: set up to deal with it. So, Okay, what what

869
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 7: the fuck is this book about? The very the shortest

870
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 7: answer I can possibly give is it's an attempt to

871
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 7: build a sort of mathematical model of how how of

872
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 7: of sort of like that measures the growth of an

873
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 7: economy and can sort of like determine based on like

874
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 7: different sort of inputs of uh, you know, we'll get

875
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 7: to the bore of the second and like in terms

876
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 7: of like inputs of capital and like parts of labor,

877
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 7: like how how you can have an economy that grows

878
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 7: stably over time. But in order to like get into

879
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 7: really what this is, we need to do something that

880
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 7: actually is the first part of this book. We need

881
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 7: to do a brief survey of the last two hundred

882
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 7: and thirty two hundred and forty years of economics. But

883
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 7: before we do that, do you know what economics exist

884
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 7: to sell you?

885
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 3: I do? Actually that is a fantastic transition. Mayah, That

886
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 3: is it goods and services. It is in fact goods

887
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: and services, price less capital goods.

888
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 7: All right, and we are back, So okay, in order

889
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 7: to understand literally what this fundamental project is, we have

890
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 7: to talk about sort of the three broad categories of economists.

891
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 7: So the first sort of original in we're not gonnare

892
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 7: there's a couple there's people before this, but like the

893
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 7: the in terms of like economists whose work is important

894
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 7: to now, there's three broad categories, and we're going to

895
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 7: start with the classical economists broadly. There's also about three

896
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 7: important classical economists. This is this is an argument, and

897
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 7: this is one of the arguments that Donald Harris makes

898
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 7: in the opening of this book is about who these

899
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 7: people are. So his argument is it's Adam Smith, Malthus,

900
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 7: and Ricardo. We don't care about Mauthus for our purposes.

901
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 7: He's most well known for being the like the the

902
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 7: like out of control population growth will kill one on Earth.

903
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 7: We need to like slow populate stuff like. That's not

904
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 7: super relevant for us. Everyone, I think kind of has

905
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 7: a has a basic familiarity with Adam Smith. But for

906
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 7: our purposes, the important one is Ricardo, who is not

907
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 7: very well known at all. Ricardo is sort of concerned

908
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 7: with basically the distribution of surpluses between the classes. So

909
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 7: for him, that there's there's there's three major classes, right,

910
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 7: there's landlords as capitalists, and there's workers. And he's concerned

911
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 7: about how the sort of the the surplus product of

912
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 7: a society, which is like all of the sort of

913
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 7: stuff that's produced in an economy that isn't literally directly

914
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 7: necessary for everyone to survive. How is that sort of

915
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 7: surplus like distributed and how does this sort of impact

916
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 7: economic growth? The post Kanesian tradition that Donald Harris is

917
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 7: in is in a real sense they are successors to Ricardo, right.

918
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 7: A lot of I've mentioned Piero Siraffa, who is like

919
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 7: probably the central figure of post Kanesian economics. He's a

920
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 7: really interesting guy. He knows like everyone, like he knew Canes.

921
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 7: He was weirdly friends with Antonio Grampsi, the former head

922
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 7: of the Italian Communist Party, who's enormously influential work was

923
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 7: like new him, And a lot of what Sarafa's work

924
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 7: is is kind of like getting Ricardo's economics to like

925
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 7: work properly and then turning that into sort of a

926
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 7: new framework for how you model economies. Now, the other

927
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 7: part of this, you know, so okay, who isn't isn't

928
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 7: the classical economist is also a huge source of debate

929
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 7: because there's a lot of people who throw marks in

930
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 7: as part of the classical economy, that's a traditional way

931
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 7: to view it. Harris doesn't think that he's a classical economist.

932
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 7: He thinks that he's his own thing. So for our purposes,

933
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 7: you know, it's and and Harris is also I mean,

934
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 7: I think he considers himself a Marxist, even in this

935
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 7: period and a lot of this book is an attempt

936
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 7: to sort of merge Marxian political economy with like the

937
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 7: sort of neo Ricardi and stuff that s Rafa is doing.

938
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 3: Does he change later? Do you know? Is Harris one

939
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 3: of these guys who goes on like intellectual journey and

940
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 3: becomes Oh, we'll get there, We'll get to where all

941
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 3: this ends up at the end of this episode.

942
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 7: But you know, it's interesting because you can actually see

943
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 7: it kind of happening in the middle of this book

944
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 7: in ways that we're going to get to.

945
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 3: I love that. I love a book where your thic

946
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 3: sort of personal journey.

947
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 7: It's also very funny because the economist guy, I was like,

948
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 7: oh my god, he's so Marxist. He's concerned with the

949
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 7: value for him and like, okay, I to put my

950
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 7: Marxist cards on the table.

951
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: Maybe six people will understand this.

952
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 7: But like I was like brought up in terms of

953
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 7: learning like Marxist theory, like through the through the value

954
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 7: form school.

955
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 3: He is not a value form guy. He plays really

956
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 3: fast and loose. What value is? Uh, it's it's I

957
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: was reading this and I was going, oh god, oh no,

958
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 3: what is this. He's so wrong? He's so bafflingly wrong.

959
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 3: The What the the Economists is subtitled A Combative Marxist

960
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 3: Economists with White House Influence, which like, thanks God.

961
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, okay, so so the the the basis of Marxist

962
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 7: Marxian political economy is the labor theory of value. We're

963
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 7: gonna explain this briefly because it actually winds up mattering

964
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 7: a lot to this book. So value is the product

965
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 7: of the labor time socially necessary to produce a commodity. Right,

966
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 7: It's like how long does it take like a specific

967
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 7: place to produce a watch? You know, workers are paid

968
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 7: enough to reproduce themselves or paid enough to sort of

969
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 7: like eat, sleep and like have kids. There are more workers,

970
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 7: but the rest of their labor time is stolen by

971
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 7: capitalists and is thus unremunerated. This unpaid labor time is

972
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 7: called surplus value. And this is what capital has made off.

973
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 7: So this is like a very very basis of sort

974
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 7: of what Marxism is, and you know, in in sort

975
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 7: of Marxism. And this is sort of different than Ricardo,

976
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 7: which is like work. Ricardo understands that there are classes

977
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 7: and that they are in conflict to some extent. But

978
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 7: you know, for marx the central dynamics of capitalism is,

979
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 7: you know, is the conflict between the bourgeoisie or the

980
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 7: capitalists who own the means of production and then you know,

981
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 7: and buy that ownership, like extract surplus value from the

982
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 7: proletariat and the proletariat or the working class or forced

983
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 7: to sell their labor to capitalists, et cetera, et cetera.

984
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: Something very interesting.

985
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 7: Two ideas run into each other very quickly in Harris's work,

986
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 7: because you know, so there is a thing called surplus

987
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 7: in in the tradition of sort of Ricardo and in

988
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 7: the tradition of like Serapha and this of the post Kansians, right,

989
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 7: and that surplus is very critically not the same thing

990
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 7: as Marxian surplus value. So you know what part of

991
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 7: part of what's happening here is that Harris is trying

992
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 7: to square the circle base between these two approaches to

993
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 7: like to what surplus is and sort of what the

994
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 7: nature of value is. So you know, in the Marxist tradition, right,

995
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 7: surplus value is still in labor time, and the value

996
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 7: of producer sort of flows through the economy, and it's

997
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 7: what turned you know, like stealing this labor time is

998
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 7: what turns capital into more capital. Right in the post

999
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 7: in post Cantine economics, surplus is you know, so so

1000
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 7: in in sort of like a seraf in work or

1001
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 7: in this book too, right, you have basically a production matrix,

1002
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 7: which is like as a MATC that models how production works,

1003
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,320
Speaker 7: and it's what it's doing is modeling the entire output

1004
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 7: of society at one time. And in this model, so

1005
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 7: there there's sort of like you know, there's all the

1006
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 7: commodity and labor inputs that compose the economy and they

1007
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 7: come back out and there's a certain amount of commodities.

1008
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 7: This is the thing we talked about with the Kardo, right,

1009
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 7: there's there's certain amount of commodities you need to produce

1010
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 7: so that everyone can the entire system can reproduce itself,

1011
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 7: and beyond that is surplus. So what you're dealing with

1012
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 7: is this weird mixture because Harris is trying to work

1013
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 7: with both of these at the same time, where like,

1014
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 7: on the one hand you have surplus as like like

1015
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 7: stolen value in a form of like stolen labor time,

1016
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 7: and on the other hand you have it in this

1017
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 7: regarded sense of like there's a bunch of commodities that

1018
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 7: we've produced that's like access to our like ability to

1019
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 7: to like our needs to reproduce ourselves. And he's trying

1020
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 7: to square these and it doesn't work. It just sort

1021
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 7: of breaks down, like.

1022
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 3: Does he like actively address this like dual meaning and

1023
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 3: then explain like, y.

1024
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, well so his basic issue is that so the

1025
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 7: way he does this mostly is by just moving back

1026
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 7: and forth between the two systems and not trying to

1027
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 7: reconcile them. And then the one time he has to

1028
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 7: kind of do it, he has to, oh god, do

1029
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:55,720
Speaker 7: I want to try to explain the transformation problem?

1030
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 3: He has to do this thing where.

1031
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 7: Okay, so if theoretically, if you want to convert surplus value,

1032
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 7: like in the Marxist Marxian sense into the sort of

1033
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 7: like neo Ricardian thing, you need to turn it into prices.

1034
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 7: And there's a long running controversy in in Marxism over

1035
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 7: whether or not you can actually do that because the

1036
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 7: math is weird, it doesn't work very well. I'm not

1037
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 7: gonna he doesn't solve it. He just gives up and

1038
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 7: says that you can't do it because they're in two

1039
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 7: separate spheres, which is the most compound answer I've ever

1040
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 7: seed in my entire life.

1041
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 3: It's I love that. Yeah, it's it's it's it's wild.

1042
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 7: But you know, so, so back to the sort of

1043
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 7: main arc of what the fuck is smoke about here,

1044
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 7: I'm probably probably I'm promost we're reaching.

1045
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 3: The promised lamp. We have to do this stuff first.

1046
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 7: Okay, so those are, you know, the the two kinds

1047
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 7: of economics that that Donald Harris is trying to work

1048
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 7: with are this sort of post Canesian stuff, which is

1049
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 7: derived from like Ricardo and classical economists, and then like

1050
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 7: Marxian stuff. There's also the third school, which is neoclassical economics,

1051
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 7: which this is all the economics that you've learned in school, right,

1052
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 7: This is supplied demand. This is like your production functions.

1053
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 7: This is your like every time someone starts lecturing you

1054
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 7: about how the economy works.

1055
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 3: This is all this stuff.

1056
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 7: Yeah. What's very important for our purposes, and this is

1057
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 7: something that Harris brings up is the single largest difference

1058
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 7: between neoclassical economics and whatever came before. It isn't that like,

1059
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 7: I don't know, everything's about marginal utility or whatever the

1060
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 7: fuck's that. It's that in neoclassical economics, there are no classes.

1061
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 7: They just pretend that classes don't exist.

1062
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 3: Yeah wow, And in much of American politics, yeah, Germany

1063
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 3: politics sadly well.

1064
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 7: And this is also why like the American conception of

1065
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 7: class is so nuts and why everyone's running around in

1066
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 7: circle is trying to measure it by like income levels,

1067
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 7: because all the economics they use don't have a thing

1068
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 7: that establishes what class is.

1069
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 3: It is one of the jarring differences between the United

1070
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 3: Kingdom and the United States, how like we are hyper

1071
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: aware of class and like it's something that like arguably,

1072
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 3: like Britain is obsessed with to detriment of other Like yeah,

1073
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 3: and you go to America and fucking like like if

1074
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 3: if you have a job that pays you occasionally, your

1075
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: middle class and then fucking everyone is apparently and like

1076
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 3: it becomes a meaningless term. I guess. Yeah.

1077
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 7: This is very explicitly for political reasons, right. Neoclassical economics

1078
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 7: is developed as an attack on Marxism, like this is

1079
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 7: this is this is its actual sort of origin, and

1080
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 7: it's originators are like very explicit about this right now,

1081
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,240
Speaker 7: And this is where we get back to Sarafa, because

1082
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 7: Sarraffa's work effectively is an attack on neoclassical economics, and

1083
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 7: Sarraffa in ninety nine pages literally destroys everything they'd ever produced.

1084
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 7: But you know, the new classical solution to this is

1085
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 7: basically to get everyone who talked about it fired. And

1086
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 7: this actually worked, Like they's basically massive social cleansing campaign

1087
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 7: of like all of the sort of heterodox economists they

1088
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 7: got they got the ball fired and it worked. And

1089
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 7: Harris actually weirdly was kind of was like one of

1090
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 7: the last holdouts into the nineties, but he just like

1091
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 7: retires in like the late nineties, and that's like basically

1092
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 7: ever all of them get rent out.

1093
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 3: Uh, there's a good we'll talk about him later. There's

1094
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 3: there's another uh.

1095
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 7: Postcanesian economists named Frederick Lee who my friends estrange matter

1096
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 7: really like, who's an anarchist who's in this school, and

1097
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 7: he has like an excruciatingly detailed account of all of

1098
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 7: these economists getting runt out by the neoclassical people. And

1099
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 7: so you know, like neoclassical economists like in in some

1100
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 7: sense they there there. Their strategy is a strategy of capitalism,

1101
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 7: which is like obviously we're not right here, but we

1102
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 7: have money and we have force. So we're going to

1103
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 7: defeat your ideas by simply destroying you all tightlightly actual

1104
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 7: physical force.

1105
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 3: So incredible, Yeah, the cultural revolution in economics.

1106
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, but it's interesting because Harris Harris is writing this

1107
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 7: in seventy eight, and in seventy eight, it's still the

1108
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 7: battle hasn't been settled yet, right, there's still kind of

1109
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 7: like the fight going on between like who is going

1110
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 7: to be like in control of economics? And I mean,

1111
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 7: the you know, the answer is to Theokanzian is that

1112
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 7: the post Kansians lose.

1113
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 3: But you know that wasn't necesarily the case of this time.

1114
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 7: There's also a really weird artifact of this that I

1115
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 7: want to talk about a little bit, which is that, like,

1116
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 7: you know, so remember at the beginning of this, I

1117
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 7: said that that stupid economist person has said that it

1118
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 7: was neo Kandians versus post Kansians. Yeah, so those two

1119
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 7: groups are not the same thing. The post Kandians are

1120
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 7: the people who we've been talking about this whole time, right,

1121
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 7: Like they're they're like they're basically neo Ricardans, right, They're

1122
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 7: they're like based on classical economics. The neo Kansians are

1123
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 7: just regular Kansians basically, but they had to change the

1124
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 7: math to be shittier and make themselves more right wing

1125
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 7: to like survive.

1126
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 3: She reads plain like John maynol Keynes and supply side economics. Yeah,

1127
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 3: if if you want to yeah, if you want to

1128
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 3: give back, I mean, go ahead. Fucking I am a historian,

1129
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 3: but it's a it differs from classical economics. I guess

1130
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 3: in the idea that the state can make interventions, am

1131
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 3: I ukotomby after as I fucked up? The state interventions

1132
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 3: can be beneficial for the economy, And it emerges like

1133
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 3: in the I guess post Great Depression, Like I guess

1134
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 3: maybe from the from like you know, the New Deal

1135
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 3: and these these and then post World War two, right,

1136
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 3: like it's very influential in the kind of build up

1137
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 3: after World War Two. The idea that like the state

1138
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: shouldn't necessarily be like what's happen Adam handed the invisible hand,

1139
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 3: the fucking invisible hand, maybe isn't killing it and we

1140
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 3: needn't stead the hand of the state.

1141
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I mean, well, you know, it's worth mentioning

1142
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 7: that like in Adam Smith, the hand of the state

1143
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 7: is explicitly God, sorry, exquisitely God. Unfortunately, unfortunately there was

1144
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 7: no God to bail out the markets of the nineteen twenties.

1145
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 7: So Kids was like shit, yeah, And I mean, you know,

1146
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 7: he's like in sort of like more detail, like his

1147
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 7: thing basically is about like he's he's obsessed with sort

1148
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 7: of like like like basically cyclically counteracting crises by using states,

1149
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 7: betting to like, you know, like his things basically is that,

1150
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 7: like capital will misallocate resources, you have to use the

1151
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 7: state to like kick the bastards into line, like the

1152
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 7: stable economy. And the problem is that by by the

1153
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 7: late seventies, the Kansians are in crisis because in in

1154
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 7: original likea Kansian theory, it wasn't supposed to be possible

1155
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 7: for there to be both rising unemployment and rising inflation,

1156
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 7: but that was like happening over the entire world, and

1157
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 7: so they got kind of annihilated. And this is the

1158
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 7: thing that like the neoliberals used to like take power.

1159
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 7: And it's interesting because the post Kansians like they use

1160
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 7: you know, and like the beginning of this book is

1161
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 7: a bit of like Kansian stuff. But then he just

1162
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 7: like you know, they go off and do other more

1163
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 7: interesting things. But it's very funny because because this is

1164
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 7: still seventy eight, he Harris calls himself a neo Kansian,

1165
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 7: and he calls all of his collaborators Theokansians because the

1166
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 7: real Neokansians hadn't like developed yet.

1167
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 3: Oh he's just trying to he's just trying to find

1168
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: can claim it, like he's trying to get his like

1169
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 3: stick in the ground. First.

1170
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, but I mean that's the thing, like at

1171
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 7: that point they were the neo like the there.

1172
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 3: There wasn't like there.

1173
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 7: Their school had had as good acclaim to it as anyone.

1174
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 7: It's just that they got kicked out later by the

1175
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 7: sort of board. Like yeah, it makes sense, ones.

1176
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1177
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 7: It's also a thing that's also important about this, for

1178
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 7: reasons we're gonna get to in a second, is that

1179
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 7: the post Kanesene tradition also has a lot of very

1180
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 7: eclectic Marxists in it. We're gonna get the Joe and Robinson,

1181
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 7: who's a very close collaborator of a very good Marxist philosopher.

1182
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 7: She's actually the person who like kicks off the Cambridge

1183
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 7: Captural Capital controversy. And she's she's a very kind of

1184
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 7: esoteric Marxist kind of in a similar way to uh

1185
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 7: to what Donald Harris is. But you know, you know

1186
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 7: what Marxism in theory isn't supposed to support.

1187
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 3: Would that be the sale of goods and services?

1188
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1189
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's product and services that support this podcast. We're

1190
01:01:51,640 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 3: distributing the amusing the price mechanism. Yeah, we're back. So yeah,

1191
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 3: there's there. There's also you know, there's got.

1192
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 7: A Galecki who's very important to this too, so that

1193
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 7: there are Marxists kind of on the ground of this,

1194
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 7: and they're they're trying to sort of their their goal

1195
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 7: is to try to like explain an economy that has

1196
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 7: monopolies in it, because Marxist theory sort of like assumed

1197
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 7: that there weren't and that there was like actual competition

1198
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 7: in markets and so part of what but this this

1199
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 7: comes to the sort of fundamental project of of what

1200
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 7: this book is about, which is that it's it's it's

1201
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 7: about developing a sort of growth model that you can

1202
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 7: sort of you know, that that that that accounts that

1203
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 7: that can be modified to account for all of these things.

1204
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 7: So the initial thing that they're trying to produce. Is

1205
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 7: is like a model of what they call a Golden age,

1206
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 7: which is a thing that's from Joan Robinson. Yeah, that's

1207
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 7: basically like it's the Golden age is a theoretical like

1208
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 7: economic configuration. You have, you have full employment, you have constant,

1209
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 7: stable economic growth, and the system can reproduce itself. Yeah,

1210
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 7: and you know, I'm going to read a passage from

1211
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 7: this book so you can understand. Partially so you can

1212
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 7: because it's about this, right, and partially so you can understand,

1213
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 7: like this isn't even a particularly technical paragraph.

1214
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 3: We're talking about hit me. Steady state.

1215
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, Golden age is also kind of similar thing to

1216
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 7: a concept called steady state economies he's writing about. A

1217
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 7: particular steady state is based on a given set of

1218
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 7: conditions and interrelations among them, a given rate of accumulation

1219
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 7: of capital, given rates of savings from the stream of

1220
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 7: net income, a given state of technological knowledge or rate

1221
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 7: of technological innovation, a given rate of increase of the

1222
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 7: labor force, and a given set of expectations. To ask

1223
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 7: whether such a situation exists is to ask whether the

1224
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 7: conditions which define it are mutually compatible or self consistent.

1225
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 7: So this is Basically what he's doing, right, is you

1226
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 7: can you can build these models of like these sort

1227
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 7: of Kanzian models that like and I started a post

1228
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 7: Kansian model that you know, if you if you, if

1229
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 7: you set up all the elements right, you can theoretically

1230
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 7: generate stable growth. But then you know, obviously his thing

1231
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 7: is like this doesn't work, right, Like, no, no, no

1232
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 7: economy will ever generate this because there's only really like

1233
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 7: it's extremely hard to actually get you know, your sort

1234
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 7: of like input levels and your technological development whatever the

1235
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 7: fuck like at the same rate to do this. But

1236
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 7: he's he's using this as basically the model for as

1237
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 7: like as like a sort of toy model that you

1238
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 7: can then sort of warp to fit the rest of

1239
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 7: the the rest of the capitalist economy. But in order

1240
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 7: to do this, he has to generate a crisis theory.

1241
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 7: And this is where he just like suddenly all the

1242
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 7: marks comes back in and he's like, so his he's

1243
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 7: the product he's trying to do is he's trying to

1244
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,439
Speaker 7: use a post Kinesian model of how economic growth works

1245
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 7: and then and then combine that with Marxist crisis theory

1246
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 7: to produce basically a model of you know, what, what

1247
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 7: kinds of conditions in an economy will cause like crisis state? Now, ooka,

1248
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 7: the every thing is very weird about this, right, It's

1249
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 7: like he doesn't do normal, Like there's like an entire

1250
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 7: school of Marxist crisis theory, and he doesn't do it.

1251
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 7: He instead like rewrites a bunch of Marxist equations and

1252
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 7: then comes up with his own like version of crisis

1253
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 7: theory of like different kinds of crises. And I like what,

1254
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 7: it's so weird, it's so baffling.

1255
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 3: Maybe he wanted to make him make his mock you know.

1256
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, I guess it's weird because it's like this whole

1257
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 7: thing is interesting, but it's like I don't think anyone

1258
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 7: ever followed up on it.

1259
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,959
Speaker 3: Really, right, It's just like this dead end of academic theory.

1260
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I think it's also you know, I mean

1261
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 7: it's partially like a rude Nott travel thing. It's partially

1262
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 7: because as as the post Kanesians went on, they got

1263
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 7: less and less Marxist. So like a lot of the

1264
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 7: original people are like Seraphison a Marxist, but like a

1265
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 7: lot of the original like Joan Robinson is definitely a Marxist,

1266
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 7: but they get like less and less over time, and

1267
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 7: so there's less interest in kind of like folding in

1268
01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 7: Marxism to it.

1269
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he's losing interest in that. Yeah.

1270
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:03,439
Speaker 7: But this is where we get to the final question,

1271
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 7: like is he a Marxist? And my answer is I

1272
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 7: don't even in even in sixty eight and seventy eight,

1273
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 7: which is pretty early, I don't think he's a Marxist.

1274
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 7: I don't think he's a Marxist in this book. I

1275
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 7: think he's using Marxist theory, but I don't think he's

1276
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 7: actually a Marxist, like politically. And the reason I don't

1277
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 7: think this is because, you know, so we talk about

1278
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 7: surplus value, right, the surplus value is supposed to be

1279
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 7: this value it's extracted, but it's the magnitude of it.

1280
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 7: One of the things like how much value you extract,

1281
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:29,919
Speaker 7: like how many hours of the day you can steal

1282
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 7: from a worker, depends on how many hours of the

1283
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 7: day you'd need to pay them for in order for

1284
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 7: them to survive. Right, And one of the crucial things

1285
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 7: about this is that that and then Marx is very

1286
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 7: explicit about this that rate of like how much you

1287
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 7: need to pay them to survive is determined by social struggle, right,

1288
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 7: because like you know what what a worker quote unquote

1289
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 7: needs to survive in like in different places in context

1290
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 7: is different, and you can fight in order for that

1291
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 7: rate to be higher. And this is like an incredibly

1292
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 7: basic part of Marxism, right, It's the part of Marxism

1293
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 7: where the economy is also determed, like the function of

1294
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 7: the capitalist economy is produced by class struggle.

1295
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 3: This is like this is like this is even one.

1296
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 7: This is Marxism zero zero zero, like this this is

1297
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 7: this is the ship they hand you on the flow

1298
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 7: on like your fucking tour of Marxism school before you

1299
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 7: holding classes.

1300
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so when you get that very you know,

1301
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 3: there's very short introductions you can get where it's like

1302
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 3: like a tiny little booklet that explains so like the

1303
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 3: sene Quan on the little elements of things.

1304
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, and Harris writes pages and pages and pages of

1305
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 7: stuff about like about about like the rate of surplus

1306
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 7: value extraction. And do you know how many times he

1307
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 7: mentions class fucking once in like and it's it's like

1308
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 7: the thirty eight thing he mentions after like the technical

1309
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 7: composition of capital and like it's all other crisis, Like

1310
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 7: it's all of this ship and he just doesn't mention it.

1311
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 7: And this is this is the thing that like fundamentally

1312
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 7: has convinced me that what what he's doing isn't substantively Marxism.

1313
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 7: He's using the tools of merchistpolitical economy, but he's he's

1314
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 7: he's he's viewing capitalism as purely a sort of like

1315
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 7: top down thing, right as and not something that's actually

1316
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 7: like you know, like he he acknowledges there are classes,

1317
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 7: but he doesn't see them as actors at all.

1318
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so like the struggle between the classes is is And.

1319
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 7: It's funny because he has this thing that he calls

1320
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 7: the rate of exploitation, right, which is this calculation of

1321
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 7: sort of surplus value extraction. But he's like, well, obviously

1322
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 7: because the rate is going to change over time due

1323
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 7: to the condition to struggle. But he's like an Oscar,

1324
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 7: I'm just putting his one number, like it's just like right, yeah.

1325
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 3: It I'm too lazy to figure that out. And I'm like,

1326
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 3: what what are you doing? Like you this is this

1327
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 3: is the basis of Marxism. Yeah, I mean, maybe he

1328
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 3: was just an economics guy, but even still no, yeah,

1329
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 3: this is.

1330
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 7: This is this is the thing that I've been sort

1331
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 7: of realizing because one of the issues Sarafha is that,

1332
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 7: you know, Sarafa is a genius economist, right, he is

1333
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 7: genuinely and unbelievably brilliant. But he's also a pure economist.

1334
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 7: Like here's here is how the start of his most

1335
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 7: influential book, Production of Commodities and Means of Commodities starts.

1336
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 7: Let us consider an extremely simple society which produces just

1337
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 7: enough to maintain itself. Commodities are produced by separate industries

1338
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 7: and are exchanged for one another, et cetera.

1339
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 3: Culture.

1340
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 7: So, okay, what is he he he he just has

1341
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 7: like created a mental model. And this is the basis

1342
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 7: of like of his major economic theories. Him just creating

1343
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 7: a mental model where somehow, out of nowhere has appeared

1344
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 7: a simple society that produces like one commodity, which is

1345
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 7: like just enough commodities, separaties in the station. And you know,

1346
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 7: if you think about sort of like Marx, right, Marx

1347
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 7: is also a sociologist, right. He cares about you know,

1348
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 7: like like the actual point of production, right, he cares

1349
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 7: about the production process. He cares about the sort of

1350
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 7: like like that there are he cares that there are

1351
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:03,560
Speaker 7: workers that are doing the production. He cares about the

1352
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 7: sort of historical conditions that created you know, these these things.

1353
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,879
Speaker 7: Don't like as Kamala Harris's mom, this is actually very important.

1354
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 7: The Kamala Harris you didn't just follow out of the

1355
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,640
Speaker 7: coconut tree exist in the context of all that came

1356
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 7: before you. That's Kamala Harris's mom, who is like, I think,

1357
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 7: a better Marxist than Noel Harris's and Harris will occasionally,

1358
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 7: like Donald Harris will occasionally gesture to this one. He'd

1359
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 7: be like, well, yeah, obviously this is all determined by

1360
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 7: historical conditions, and then he just has no interest in

1361
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:28,640
Speaker 7: ever pursuing any of that. He's just like, yeah, this

1362
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 7: is we left a later book that he never wrote.

1363
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 7: And what you get to is is this this is

1364
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 7: like a real issue with sort of Postkansianism is that

1365
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 7: it doesn't have like Marxism at least in theory, has

1366
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 7: politics embedded into it. Postkansianism kind of doesn't it. Just

1367
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 7: like I have a lot of friends who I like,

1368
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 7: I deeply care about who are Postkansians, right, they are

1369
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 7: political like you know, they're they're leftists because they're leftists, right,

1370
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 7: Like it's it's not something that's an automatic generation of

1371
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 7: your theory, and you know you can kind of write

1372
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 7: it that way, right, Like this is the thing about

1373
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 7: Frederick Lee, who's the sort of the a lot of

1374
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 7: my like a lot of the Traine writers people sort

1375
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 7: of like learn economics from, like I mean indirectly, but

1376
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 7: like through his book. But you know Lee Lee is

1377
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 7: a committed anarchist and that shows up in his work.

1378
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 7: But he has to like add that in pure like

1379
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 7: pure Sarraffa by itself, you could theoretically like run any

1380
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 7: form of government you want with it.

1381
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 9: Right.

1382
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 7: And I think I've been vindicated in this whole process

1383
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 7: because Donald Harris writes a couple more books on one

1384
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 7: of which is a book that is like commissioned by

1385
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 7: the Jamaican government.

1386
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 3: Okay, he's Jamaican descent or he was born himself directly

1387
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 3: in Jamaica, you.

1388
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 7: Know, Like he's just like he's he's Jamaica and he

1389
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 7: lives in Jamaica. Okay, I think I think he currently

1390
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:41,719
Speaker 7: lives in Jamaica.

1391
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure. Yeah, And this came to the US

1392
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 3: for his graduate like for his academic yeah.

1393
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 2: One.

1394
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 7: One he lived in the US for a long time

1395
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 7: because he was at Stamford, but then he kind of

1396
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,799
Speaker 7: like left and one I think went back at Jamaica.

1397
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 3: I'm good. I'm going to read.

1398
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 7: So he wrote a book called a Growth This is

1399
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 7: in twenty eleven, A Growth Inducement Strategy for Jamaica and

1400
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 7: the shortened term. I'm going to read you the bullet

1401
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 7: points under a section called guiding Principles. Okay, unleash entrepreneurial

1402
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 7: dynamism by unlocking latent wealth, tied up and idle assets.

1403
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 7: Infrastructure investments is catalysm for job creation through strengthening resiliency

1404
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,560
Speaker 7: of the built in natural environments. Build an innovative and

1405
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,640
Speaker 7: competitive modern economy of big and small firms by strengthening

1406
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:29,719
Speaker 7: business networks and removing supply side constraints. Modernize and improve

1407
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:33,679
Speaker 7: the efficiency of government. Social inclusion through community renewal, expand

1408
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 7: as south agency in equity and proactive partnership between government

1409
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 7: and private sector ALSOSO A giant thing in this about crime.

1410
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 7: So what has happened is that these two people have

1411
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,560
Speaker 7: circled back around and they now have the same politics

1412
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 7: which is like tough on crime, austerity.

1413
01:12:53,760 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 3: Public private partnership, fucking infrastructure spending. Yeah, they circled back around.

1414
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 7: It's funny because the person writing the economists was like, oh, yeah,

1415
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 7: they actually have.

1416
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 3: Circles back around because they're a bouth.

1417
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 7: They're both concerned about wealth inequality, and this book is

1418
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 7: not concerned about wealth inequality at all. Like, that's not

1419
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 7: that's not what it's about. It's about like capital accumulation,

1420
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 7: and you know, it's sort of about distribution of surplus,

1421
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 7: but it's it doesn't it's concerned with the distribution of surplus.

1422
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 7: Is that Seraphan economics like doesn't have a fixed race

1423
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 7: like way for it to be distributed. It can be

1424
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 7: distributed in an enormous number of ways, and the trick

1425
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 7: is finding out how it's actually done.

1426
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 4: Right.

1427
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a point in here.

1428
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 7: There's a point in this book too that like is

1429
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:39,560
Speaker 7: the thing that's like really first struck me about it.

1430
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 7: Where he's talking about how he's talking about surplus value

1431
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 7: and he's talking about how this is an objective measure

1432
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 7: of exploitation. But then he goes and he says, contrary

1433
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 7: to vulgar readings, this does not actually indicate who deserves

1434
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 7: like it doesn't.

1435
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 3: It's not it's not a moral argument about who should

1436
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 3: have the value that's and stolen. And this this right here, this,

1437
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 3: this is the roade.

1438
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 7: This is the road that is going to lead this

1439
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 7: man from a kind of interesting book about like the

1440
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 7: dynamics of economic growth and like building economic models and

1441
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 7: like using marks in theory to sort of make it

1442
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 7: work to straight up I writing investment documents for the

1443
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:20,799
Speaker 7: Jamaican government.

1444
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like he seemed like it's very like in a way,

1445
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 3: like you know, there are looks like edmller Bands Stabs

1446
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 3: and Marxist right, but like it reminds me a lot

1447
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,600
Speaker 3: of like the New Labor thing in the UK, you know,

1448
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 3: which grew out of a party which genuinely had a

1449
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 3: commitment to socialism and became like, yeah, this sort of

1450
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:43,440
Speaker 3: very neoliberal like like sort of really like peak neoliberal

1451
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 3: kind of. Yeah. That there was some Kinesian influence, I guess,

1452
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 3: but certainly nothing the one would call combus or even

1453
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:51,520
Speaker 3: really socialist.

1454
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, And I don't know, it's it's sad because

1455
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 7: it's like because the interesting thing about that.

1456
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 3: Was twenty twelve, he wrote The Growth in strategy fuck me, okay,

1457
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 3: in the game.

1458
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, but he's still the game in the sense that

1459
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 7: he's doing like this is you know, reading that it

1460
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 7: very much felt like I was reading like a modern

1461
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 7: Chinese five year plan, exceptly it was like less weird slogans.

1462
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:21,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it reads like a like a fucking

1463
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:25,760
Speaker 3: like a new labor policy document, like a think tank.

1464
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 3: It's it's a lot of like a analyst guy think

1465
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 3: tank guy kind of talk right, like, which was extremely

1466
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 3: like it looks like he left stand for in the

1467
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 3: late nineties, which is when this ship was fucking everywhere, right,

1468
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 3: Like what is he called Joseph Stiglitz? Is that right?

1469
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 3: And like yeah, yeah, yeah, like yeah, this was the

1470
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 3: economic fucking theory of the day. You know, this was

1471
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 3: very popular then. But it is absolutely just like this.

1472
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 3: This is not like black Panther, black panther inflected Marxism.

1473
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 3: This is not what I trists by the economists here.

1474
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, this is this is this is something genuinely

1475
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 7: very sad because it doesn't have to go that. We

1476
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 7: know that it's possible to like do this kind of

1477
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,320
Speaker 7: economics not be like this. Because Frederick Lee was an

1478
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 7: IWW member until the day he died, Like he's he's

1479
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 7: like out there to occupy given like like the first

1480
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 7: days of all Like he's out there, like there are

1481
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 7: videos of him giving speeches to crowds that occupy right,

1482
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 7: like you don't have to do this, but he did.

1483
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 7: And this is also like, you know, I think that

1484
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 7: this kind of political trajectory is kind of also you

1485
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 7: can see in it like how his child, even though

1486
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 7: he wasn't in her life, Munch is going to end

1487
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:41,799
Speaker 7: up as the person she is. And I think that's

1488
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 7: why that's my final conclusion from this is he's.

1489
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:49,639
Speaker 3: Not a Marxist and him and his child are libs. Yeah,

1490
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,600
Speaker 3: these are things that Tanya does to motherfucker. They you

1491
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 3: start to hang out with a bunch of other rich

1492
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:56,919
Speaker 3: people who have ten and you'd be in too identify

1493
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 3: with him and.

1494
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, stripped you away from who you Yeah, so this

1495
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 7: has been It could happen here. Don't become a daughter

1496
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 7: and capitalist bastard in.

1497
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 3: Your old age, yeah or your young age. Yeah.

1498
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. My name

1499
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 2: is Sharene and today is the first part of a

1500
01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 2: two part series where I'm going to give you all

1501
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 2: a general Palestine update and also talk about how Joe

1502
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 2: Biden's legacy that will endure long after the end of

1503
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 2: his shitty presidency and his life is first and foremost

1504
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 2: the genocide in Gaza. On Sunday, July twenty first, Biden

1505
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 2: said that he was ending his presidential re election campaign

1506
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 2: after a week's pressure from party officials, donors, Democratic Congress members, voters,

1507
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 2: and pro Palestinian organizers and advocacy groups. This move comes

1508
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:13,800
Speaker 2: months after organizers led a nationwide campaign to vote uncommitted

1509
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 2: during Democratic primary elections to push Biden to end his

1510
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 2: unconditional support for Israel during his genocide in Gaza or

1511
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 2: risk losing their vote in the general election. In several states,

1512
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 2: uncommitted or no preference received far more votes than other

1513
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 2: candidates challenging Biden, and so Biden dropped out surprise. Ever

1514
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 2: since his announcement to withdraw, Democratic politicians and commentators in

1515
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,639
Speaker 2: the US have come out to heat praise and laud

1516
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 2: the president's character, and draw attention to all his contributions

1517
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 2: over the years. None of that matters to me, though,

1518
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 2: and it shouldn't matter to you, because for me and

1519
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 2: many others, Biden will be remembered for nothing else than

1520
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 2: his support for Israeli crimes. But let's hear from our

1521
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 2: us ridiculous public servants, shall we. Senate Majority leader Chuck

1522
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: Schumer said, Joe Biden has not only been a great

1523
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 2: president and a great legislative leader, but he's truly an

1524
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,240
Speaker 2: amazing human being. His decision, of course, was not easy,

1525
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 2: but he once again put his country, his party, and

1526
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 2: our future first. House Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries called the

1527
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 2: president quote one of the most accomplished and consequential leaders

1528
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 2: in American history. Representative Maxine Waters called Biden a kind

1529
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:35,679
Speaker 2: and decent man. Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi praised his vision,

1530
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 2: values and leadership. She said in a statement, his legacy

1531
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 2: of vision, values in leadership make him one of the

1532
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 2: most consequential presidents in American history. She also called Biden

1533
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 2: quote a patriotic American who has always put our country first.

1534
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 2: I did find it a little funny that multiple people

1535
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 2: described Biden as consequential, because out of all the words

1536
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 2: you can choose to describe him, that one doesn't necess

1537
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 2: Saily screamed positive to me, so that did amuse me

1538
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 2: quite a bit. Former President Barack Obama issued a statement

1539
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,759
Speaker 2: acknowledging the difficulty of the decision that Biden faced.

1540
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:10,559
Speaker 3: Quote.

1541
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,160
Speaker 2: For him to look at the political landscape and decide

1542
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:15,760
Speaker 2: that he should pass the torch to a new nominee

1543
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 2: is surely one of the toughest in his life. But

1544
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 2: I know he wouldn't make this decision unless he believed

1545
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 2: it was right for America. It's a testament to Joe

1546
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:27,839
Speaker 2: Biden's love of country, an historic example of a genuine

1547
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 2: public servant once again putting the interests of the American

1548
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,799
Speaker 2: people ahead of his own that future generations of leaders

1549
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 2: will do well to follow. Gandhi Audiada. Democratic governors also

1550
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 2: latted Biden. Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer called him a great

1551
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 2: public servant who knows better than anyone what it takes

1552
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:49,679
Speaker 2: to defeat Donald Trump. California Governor Gavin Newsom thanked Biden,

1553
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:54,719
Speaker 2: calling him a quote extraordinary history making president. Kentucky Governor

1554
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 2: Andy Basheer said Biden's decision is quote in the best

1555
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 2: interest of our country and our party. Several Democrats who

1556
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,679
Speaker 2: had publicly called on Biden to step aside also issued

1557
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 2: statements praising the president's decision. Representative Jerry Nadler said, Joe's

1558
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 2: announcement today reflects what we've known all along. He is

1559
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 2: an American patriot who was willing to put America's interests

1560
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 2: over his own. Senator SHIROD. Brown from Ohio thanked Biden

1561
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 2: for his years of committed service, and his son Hunter

1562
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 2: Biden issued a statement lauding his father as a selfless leader,

1563
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,160
Speaker 2: writing he is unique in public life today in that

1564
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 2: there is no distance between Joe Biden the man and

1565
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 2: Joe Biden the public servant of the last fifty four years. Well, yikes.

1566
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 2: I also wanted to mention an end with how his wife,

1567
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 2: the First Lady Joe Biden responded, which was with a

1568
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 2: heart's emoji in response to his announcement on X. But

1569
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 2: while political leaders and I guess his family showered Biden

1570
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:58,679
Speaker 2: with compliments, bombs continued to rain down on Gaza, killing

1571
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 2: dozens to add on to the nearly forty thousand Palestinians

1572
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 2: killed and sparking another wave of mass displacement in ran Yunis.

1573
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 2: For many Palestinian rights advocates, the carnage and abuses in

1574
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 2: Gaza will define Biden's place in history books, especially as

1575
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 2: the US remains steadfast in its support of Israel's onslaught

1576
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 2: on the Palestinian land. Nadine Kaswani, an organizer with the

1577
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 2: Palestine advocacy group Within Our Lifetime, said, nine months of

1578
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 2: saying genocide Joe has got to go, he finally got

1579
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 2: the message, but not before committing a heinous genocide against

1580
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:36,600
Speaker 2: the Palestinian people. I bet Eyub, the executive director of

1581
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 2: the American Arab Anti Discrimination Committee the ADC, said He'll

1582
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 2: be remembered for the hundreds of thousands killed, injured and

1583
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 2: displaced in Gaza. There is no way around it. Genocide

1584
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 2: Joe is what he's going to be remembered as. And

1585
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 2: before continuing to shit on Biden, because trust me, I

1586
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 2: would love to do that, let's talk about what is

1587
01:22:56,240 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 2: currently happening in Gaza since Israel's genocide Gaza started on

1588
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 2: October seventh, while really escalated starting October seventh, because the

1589
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 2: genocide of the Palestinian people has been ongoing since Israel's

1590
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 2: inception in nineteen forty eight. But since October seventh and

1591
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 2: well before that, Biden has offered the government of Israeli

1592
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Benjamin and Yahoo unconditional military and diplomatic support.

1593
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 2: Only once did Biden withhold a shipment of bombs to

1594
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 2: Israel over humanitarian concerns, and even then he released part

1595
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 2: of that cargo a couple months later amid pressure from

1596
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:35,839
Speaker 2: n Yahoo. Israel's genocide meanwhile has killed at least thirty

1597
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:41,200
Speaker 2: nine thousand Palestinians, displaced hundreds of thousands, and fueled a

1598
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,840
Speaker 2: man made famine, and also has destroyed nearly all of

1599
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 2: the territory. United Nations experts and other observers have outright

1600
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 2: called what is happening in Gaza as a textbook case

1601
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 2: of genocide, and the cumulative effects of Israel's genocide could

1602
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:59,120
Speaker 2: mean that the true death toll is much much more.

1603
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,599
Speaker 2: Ordering to a study recently published from the journal Lancet,

1604
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 2: the death toll could reach more than one hundred and

1605
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 2: eighty six thousand people. The study pointed out that the

1606
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 2: death toll is likely higher because the official death toll

1607
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 2: does not take into account the thousands of dead buried

1608
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 2: under rubble and indirect deaths due to destruction of health facilities,

1609
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 2: food distribution systems, and other public infrastructure. Conflicts have indirect

1610
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 2: health implications beyond the direct harm from violence, the study said,

1611
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 2: and even if the God's genocide ends immediately, it will

1612
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 2: continue to cause many indirect deaths in the coming months

1613
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 2: and years through things like disease. The study said. The

1614
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 2: death toll is expected to be far larger given that

1615
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:48,520
Speaker 2: much of God's infrastructure has been destroyed. There are shortages

1616
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:52,760
Speaker 2: of food, water, shelter medicine. The United Nations Relief and

1617
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 2: Works Agency for Palestine Refugees UNRA has also seen its

1618
01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:02,880
Speaker 2: funding cut. Israel's relentless bombs has collapsed Gaza's health care infrastructure,

1619
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 2: and the destruction of Gaza's water infrastructure in particular is

1620
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,640
Speaker 2: more than just a little significant. One reason for this

1621
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 2: is that Israel just reintroduced polio to Palestinians, but of

1622
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 2: course Israel's only providing vaccinations to the Israeli army, and

1623
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:23,120
Speaker 2: this is according to Herot's Polio is a fecal oral

1624
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 2: disease and infections can be linked to contaminated and poor

1625
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 2: sewage systems, and it can lead to paralysis. On June

1626
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 2: twenty third, twenty twenty four, samples were collected from two

1627
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 2: environmental surveillance sites in kan Uness and Dead and Badach.

1628
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 2: Polio variant two was found in six wastewater samples. According

1629
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 2: to the Polio Global Eradication Initiative, currently only sixteen of

1630
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 2: the thirty six hospitals are partially functional and forty five

1631
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 2: out of one hundred and five primary health care facilities

1632
01:25:55,160 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 2: are operational. The impact on health systems insecurity, in excessive ability,

1633
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:04,439
Speaker 2: population displacement, and the shortages of medical supplies, coupled with

1634
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 2: poor quality of water and weakened sanitation, have contributed to

1635
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:13,520
Speaker 2: routine immunization rates and an increased risk of many vaccine

1636
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 2: preventable diseases, including polio. The World Health Organization considers there

1637
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 2: to be a high risk of spread of polio within

1638
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 2: Gaza and internationally, particularly given the impact that the current

1639
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 2: genocide continues to have on public health services, and even

1640
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 2: if vaccines were able to be given to Palestinians in Gaza,

1641
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 2: the continued bombing and a decimated health care system, coupled

1642
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 2: with the intentional devastation of water and sanitation infrastructure, would

1643
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:47,440
Speaker 2: render the vaccines close to useless without an immediate ceasefire.

1644
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 2: The threat from polio being reintroduced in Gaza will disproportionately

1645
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:56,360
Speaker 2: affect Palestinian babies and eventually Israeli babies as well. In

1646
01:26:56,479 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 2: November twenty twenty three, the World Health Organization warn Israel

1647
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:05,000
Speaker 2: of diseases spreading due to Israel's indiscriminate bombing and attack

1648
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 2: on health care infrastructure. And then on July twenty second,

1649
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, three days after the news came out

1650
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 2: about polio being reintroduced to Gaza by Israel, the Israeli

1651
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 2: Parliament voted to declare UNRA a terrorist organization and UNRA

1652
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 2: is a key partner in vaccine campaign distribution. With this

1653
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 2: and with many other things, Israel has shown its genocidal

1654
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:34,160
Speaker 2: intent calculating the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza, because

1655
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 2: if there is any war on Gaza, it's an epidemiological war,

1656
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 2: weaponizing health and medicine and the incidents, distribution and control

1657
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 2: of disease. Back to the Lancet study, it said, quote

1658
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 2: in recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to

1659
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 2: fifteen times the number of direct deaths, and after they

1660
01:27:56,520 --> 01:28:00,000
Speaker 2: applied a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per wark

1661
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 2: undirect death, they said it is not implausible to estimate

1662
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 2: that up to one hundred and eighty six thousand or

1663
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:10,800
Speaker 2: even more deaths could be attributable to the Gaza quote

1664
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 2: unquote war. Such a number would represent almost eight percent

1665
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,160
Speaker 2: of Gaza's pre war population of two point three million people,

1666
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 2: half of which, may I remind you, are children. The

1667
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:26,800
Speaker 2: Lancet study also noted that Israeli intelligence services, the UN,

1668
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:30,640
Speaker 2: and the World Health Organization all agree that claims of

1669
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 2: data fabrication leveled against Palestinian authorities in Gaza over its

1670
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 2: death toll in particular, are implausible. It pointed out that

1671
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 2: the toll is likely much higher because the destruction of

1672
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 2: infrastructure in Gaza has made it extremely difficult to maintain

1673
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:47,800
Speaker 2: account that is not lower than the actual death toll.

1674
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 2: It said, quote Documenting the true scale is crucial for

1675
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 2: ensuring historical accountability and acknowledging the full cost of the war.

1676
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 2: It is also a legal requirement. The STU pointed out

1677
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 2: that the International Court of Justice said interim rulings in

1678
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 2: January in a genocide case brought against Israel that it

1679
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 2: needs to quote take effective measures to prevent the destruction

1680
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:15,640
Speaker 2: and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of

1681
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 2: acts under the Genocide Convention. Before we continue on, let's

1682
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 2: take our first break and we'll be right back, and

1683
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 2: we'rebec I was talking about the International Court of Justice earlier,

1684
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:38,839
Speaker 2: and speaking of the International Court of Justice. On July nineteenth,

1685
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:42,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, the ICJ said Israel's presence in the

1686
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 2: Palestinian territory is unlawful and that Israel's policies in the

1687
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 2: occupied Palestinian Territory amount to annexation. It ruled that Israel's

1688
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 2: continued presence in the occupied Palestinian Territory is unlawful and

1689
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:57,759
Speaker 2: should come to an end as quote rapidly as possible.

1690
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:01,959
Speaker 2: The judges pointed to a why list of policies, including

1691
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 2: the building and expansion of Israeli settlements in the West

1692
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 2: Bank in East Jerusalem, the use of the area's natural resources,

1693
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 2: the annexation and imposition of permanent control over lands, and

1694
01:30:13,080 --> 01:30:17,839
Speaker 2: discriminatory policies against Palestinians, all of which it said violated

1695
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 2: international law. As of July twenty twenty four, and since October,

1696
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 2: Israel has killed one hundred and forty three Palestinian children

1697
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 2: in the West Bank on Palestinian land that is occupied

1698
01:30:30,240 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 2: by Israel. Because since Israel began committing genocide in Gaza

1699
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 2: over nine months ago. It has been attacking and killing

1700
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 2: hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank, including these one

1701
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 2: hundred and forty three children. UNICEF reported that Israel has

1702
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 2: killed an average of one Palestinian child every two days

1703
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:52,360
Speaker 2: in the West Bank. UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell said,

1704
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:56,759
Speaker 2: we are seeing frequent allegations of Palestinian children being detained

1705
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 2: on their way home from school or shot while walking

1706
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 2: on the streets. This report by UNICEF came out just

1707
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 2: days after the International Court of Justice confirmed that Israel

1708
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:11,880
Speaker 2: is committing the crime of apartheid against Palestinians and that

1709
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 2: its occupation of the West Bank is illegal and must end.

1710
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 2: The Court went on to say that Israel has no

1711
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:21,560
Speaker 2: right to sovereignty in any of its territories and it

1712
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 2: is violating international laws against acquiring territory by force, as

1713
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 2: well as impeding Palestinian's right to self determination. It said

1714
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 2: that other nations were obliged not to quote render aid

1715
01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:38,280
Speaker 2: or assistance in maintaining Israel's presence in the territory. It

1716
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:42,720
Speaker 2: said Israel must end settlement construction immediately and existing settlements

1717
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 2: must be removed. And this is all according to a

1718
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 2: summary of the more than eighty page opinion read out

1719
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 2: by the Court President Nawaf Saddam, The Court said, Israel's

1720
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 2: abuse of its status as the occupying power renders its

1721
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:01,760
Speaker 2: presence in the occupied Palestinian territory unlawful Israeli settlements in

1722
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:05,120
Speaker 2: the West Bank and East Jerusalem and the regime associated

1723
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 2: with them have established and are being maintained in violation

1724
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 2: of international law. Mind You, Israeli settlements in the West

1725
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:18,320
Speaker 2: Bank and East Jerusalem have always been illegal under international law,

1726
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 2: but that has never stopped Israel from continuing to expand

1727
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 2: its illegal settlements. Since nineteen sixty seven, when the borders

1728
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:28,559
Speaker 2: of what is currently seen its occupied Palestine, which are

1729
01:32:28,640 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 2: the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem, were established,

1730
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:34,800
Speaker 2: Israel has since built settlements in the West Bank and

1731
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 2: East Jerusalem and steadily expanded on them. It also had

1732
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:41,839
Speaker 2: settlements in Gaza before a two thousand and five withdrawal.

1733
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 2: And I said what is currently seen its occupied Palestine

1734
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 2: because in reality, the whole of Israel is occupied Palestine.

1735
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 2: But as far as the UN and the majority of

1736
01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 2: the international community goes, they consider the Palestinian territory as

1737
01:32:57,439 --> 01:33:02,719
Speaker 2: defined in nineteen sixty seven as Israeli occupied Palestinian Foreign

1738
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 2: Minister Riyad Maniki told reporters in The Hague that the

1739
01:33:06,200 --> 01:33:10,479
Speaker 2: ruling signaled a quote watershed moment for Palestine, for justice

1740
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 2: and for international law. He said the ICJ fulfilled its

1741
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 2: legal and moral duties with this historic ruling. All states

1742
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:24,000
Speaker 2: must now uphold their clear obligations. No aid, no assistance,

1743
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 2: no complicity, no money, no arms, no trade, no nothing,

1744
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 2: no actions of any kind to support Israel's illegal occupation.

1745
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 2: Riad Mansour, the Palestinian ambassador to the UN, said the

1746
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 2: ruling was quote a significant step in the direction of

1747
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 2: ending the occupation and attaining the inalienable rights of the

1748
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:47,400
Speaker 2: Palestinian people, including their right to self determination, the statehood

1749
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:50,880
Speaker 2: and the right of return. The right to return for

1750
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:54,160
Speaker 2: those who don't know, is it demands that Palestinians who

1751
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:56,400
Speaker 2: were forced from their homes in the nineteen forty eight

1752
01:33:56,520 --> 01:33:59,320
Speaker 2: Nekba as well as the nineteen sixty seven Nexa, be

1753
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 2: allowed to return to them. Monsour said his team would

1754
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 2: study the entire opinion and dissect every sentence. We will

1755
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 2: consult with an army of friends at the UN and

1756
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:12,560
Speaker 2: in all corners of the globe. We will produce a

1757
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:16,400
Speaker 2: masterpiece of a resolution at the UN General Assembly and

1758
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 2: then Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs rejected the opinion as

1759
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 2: fundamentally wrong and one sided. Nhennyahu's office issued a statement

1760
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:29,559
Speaker 2: in which it called the ruling a decision of lies

1761
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:33,479
Speaker 2: that distorted the truth and asserted that the Jewish people

1762
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:37,600
Speaker 2: are not occupiers in their own land. Jeffrey NICs, a

1763
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 2: human rights barrister, told El Jazeira that it will be

1764
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 2: hard for world leaders to completely disregard the ICJ ruling,

1765
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:49,160
Speaker 2: even though it is non binding. This is one part

1766
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 2: of the legal system saying enough is enough, he said.

1767
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:56,640
Speaker 2: He also said it would be difficult for the interested, informed,

1768
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,559
Speaker 2: concerned public not to say its time is reel put

1769
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 2: its house in order. El Jazeera's senior political analyst, Marwan

1770
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,479
Speaker 2: Dishada said there is a lot of room for hope

1771
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:12,000
Speaker 2: that this ruling will support a movement, an international movement

1772
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:14,960
Speaker 2: across the board in the West and elsewhere in the world,

1773
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:18,400
Speaker 2: in favor of more sanctions, more pressure on Western governments

1774
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 2: to put more pressure on Israel. In a separate case

1775
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:25,680
Speaker 2: brought by South Africa, the ICJ is also considering allegations

1776
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:29,160
Speaker 2: that Israel's committing genocide into war on Gaza. And yes,

1777
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 2: a preliminary ruling has been made in that case, with

1778
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:35,600
Speaker 2: the court ordering Israel to prevent and punish incitement to

1779
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 2: genocide and to increase its provisions of humanitarian aid, and

1780
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,920
Speaker 2: of course Israel has done nothing to do this. In May,

1781
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 2: the ICJ had also ordered Israel to halt its offensive

1782
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 2: on Rapah, the border city in southern Gaza, citing immense

1783
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 2: risk to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians taking shelter there.

1784
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 2: But Israel has continued its attacks on Gaza, including Raphah,

1785
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 2: defiance of the UN court. So it's clear Israel doesn't

1786
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 2: give a shit about international law. But it's also clear

1787
01:36:07,439 --> 01:36:10,280
Speaker 2: that no one is doing anything to actually stop them

1788
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 2: from continuing their genocide on the Palestinian people. Before I forget,

1789
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:17,760
Speaker 2: let's take our second break here and we'll be right back.

1790
01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 2: Let's go back to abed Au, the executive director of

1791
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 2: the American Arab Anti Discrimination Committee, who said Biden will

1792
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:36,600
Speaker 2: be remembered for the hundreds of thousands killed, injured and

1793
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:37,759
Speaker 2: displaced in Gaza.

1794
01:36:38,160 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 3: That genocide.

1795
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:42,320
Speaker 2: Joe is what he's going to be remembered as he

1796
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:47,000
Speaker 2: told Al Jazeera that despite Biden's domestic achievements, the president

1797
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:50,320
Speaker 2: will rank among the worst in US history due to

1798
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 2: his unconditional support for Israel. The US Campaign for Palestinian

1799
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 2: Rights the USCPR, echoed that comment, saying nothing will erase

1800
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:04,320
Speaker 2: the fact that Biden's legacy is and always will be genocide,

1801
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 2: and the US President has been an annoyingly loyal supporter

1802
01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:11,840
Speaker 2: of Israel throughout his too many decades too long political career.

1803
01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:16,400
Speaker 2: Biden frequently calls himself a Zionist proudly and argues that

1804
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:19,599
Speaker 2: Jews across the world would not be safe without Israel.

1805
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:23,719
Speaker 2: He infamously said in June nineteen eighty six, over thirty

1806
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,320
Speaker 2: seven years ago, when Biden was just a young chap

1807
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:30,200
Speaker 2: of forty three, that quote. Were there not in Israel,

1808
01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:32,920
Speaker 2: the United States of America would have to invent an

1809
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:36,400
Speaker 2: Israel to protect her interest in the region. The United

1810
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 2: States would have to go out and invent in Israel.

1811
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:43,000
Speaker 2: I want to just throw it out there that even

1812
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 2: in this quote, Israel exists to protect America's interest in

1813
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:50,680
Speaker 2: the region, not to protect the Jewish population, because it

1814
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:52,559
Speaker 2: never has done that in the first place.

1815
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:53,879
Speaker 3: But I digress.

1816
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:58,840
Speaker 2: Biden put his worldview into policy during his presidency as

1817
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 2: he pushed on with form Represident Trump's pro Israel doctrine.

1818
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:06,479
Speaker 2: Biden kept US embassy in Jerusalem, and he refused to

1819
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 2: reverse the Trump era decision to recognize Israel's claims to

1820
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:14,400
Speaker 2: the occupied Goal and heights in Syria. He also aggressively

1821
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:18,040
Speaker 2: pursued formal ties between Israel and Arab states, a goal

1822
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 2: that Trump advanced with the twenty twenty Abraham Accords. That

1823
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:26,600
Speaker 2: push for normalization, however, came without progress toward the recognition

1824
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:30,439
Speaker 2: of an independent Palestinian state or the dismantling of the

1825
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:35,200
Speaker 2: systemic anti Palestinian discrimination that has existed since the jump

1826
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 2: a Ka apartheid. And then the outbreak for the genocide

1827
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:44,200
Speaker 2: in Gaza further underscored Biden's pro Israel policies, and then

1828
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:48,280
Speaker 2: mere weeks after October seventh, Biden traveled to Israel and

1829
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:52,120
Speaker 2: publicly embraced n Yahou in what many critics described as

1830
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:56,479
Speaker 2: a bear hug, and that sign of friendliness was widely

1831
01:38:56,600 --> 01:39:00,400
Speaker 2: understood to be an endorsement of Natanyahu's response in Gaza.

1832
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:05,000
Speaker 2: Even early in the conflict, human rights groups accused Israel

1833
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:08,720
Speaker 2: of horrific violations rising to the level of genocide, a

1834
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:12,639
Speaker 2: push to destroy the Palestinian people, and within the first

1835
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:16,160
Speaker 2: week alone, the Israeli military said it had unleashed twenty

1836
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:20,240
Speaker 2: thousand strikes across Gaza, a strip of land. May I

1837
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,559
Speaker 2: remind you that is roughly the size of Las Vegas.

1838
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:28,559
Speaker 2: According to ap WS January twenty twenty four, the Israeli

1839
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:32,439
Speaker 2: military campaign in Gaza now sits among the deadliest and

1840
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:37,080
Speaker 2: most destructive in modern history. In just over two months,

1841
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 2: researchers said that the offensive caused more destruction than the

1842
01:39:41,479 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 2: raising of Sirius Aleppo between twenty twelve and twenty sixteen,

1843
01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 2: Ukraine's Mariupil, or proportionally the Allied bombing of Germany in

1844
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,720
Speaker 2: World War II. Israel has killed more civilians than the

1845
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:58,360
Speaker 2: US led coalition did in its three year campaign against Isis.

1846
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:02,679
Speaker 2: An analysis was done of data from the Copernicus Sentinel

1847
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:06,200
Speaker 2: I satellite by Corey Scherr of the Kuni Graduate Center

1848
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:10,519
Speaker 2: and Jaman Vanderhoek of Oregon State University, both of whom

1849
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:14,679
Speaker 2: are experts in mapping damage during wartime. Corey Scherr said

1850
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:18,720
Speaker 2: Gaza is now a different color from space, it's a

1851
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:23,160
Speaker 2: different texture, and he has worked with Vanderhoek to map

1852
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:28,439
Speaker 2: destruction across several war zones, from Aleppo to Mariupol. They

1853
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 2: say the visible damage in Gaza is worse than they

1854
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:35,559
Speaker 2: have found in both places. But how does the destruction

1855
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 2: of Gaza stack up historically? By some measures, destruction in

1856
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:43,240
Speaker 2: Gaza has outpaced the Allied bombings of Germany during World

1857
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:47,679
Speaker 2: War II. According to Robert Pape, a US military historian,

1858
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:51,320
Speaker 2: between nineteen forty two and nineteen forty five, the Allies

1859
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:55,679
Speaker 2: attacked fifty one major German cities and towns, destroying about

1860
01:40:55,720 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 2: forty to fifty percent of their urban areas. Pape said

1861
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:02,599
Speaker 2: that this amount to ten percent of buildings across Germany,

1862
01:41:03,080 --> 01:41:06,960
Speaker 2: compared to the thirty three percent across Gaza, a densely

1863
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:11,320
Speaker 2: populated territory of just one hundred and forty square miles.

1864
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 2: Pape said Gaza is one of the most intense civilian

1865
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:21,000
Speaker 2: punishment campaigns in history. It now sits comfortably at the

1866
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:24,640
Speaker 2: top quartile of the most devastating bombing campaigns.

1867
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:25,000
Speaker 3: Ever.

1868
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:29,720
Speaker 2: The US led coalition's twenty seventeen assault to expel the

1869
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:32,400
Speaker 2: Islamic State group from the Iraqi city of Mosul was

1870
01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 2: considered at the time one of the most intense attacks

1871
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:39,320
Speaker 2: on a city in generations. That nine month battle killed

1872
01:41:39,439 --> 01:41:44,280
Speaker 2: around ten thousand civilians, a third of them from coalition bombardment,

1873
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:48,679
Speaker 2: according to an Associated Press investigation at the time. During

1874
01:41:48,760 --> 01:41:51,960
Speaker 2: the twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen campaign to be Isis

1875
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:56,040
Speaker 2: in Iraq, the coalition carried out nearly fifteen thousand strikes

1876
01:41:56,080 --> 01:41:59,400
Speaker 2: across the country, according to air Wars, a London based

1877
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:04,960
Speaker 2: independent group that tracks recent conflicts by comparison. The Israeli

1878
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:08,479
Speaker 2: military said itself that in a single week in January,

1879
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:14,719
Speaker 2: it conducted twenty two thousand strikes in Gaza. Again, compared

1880
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,560
Speaker 2: that to the fifteen thousand in the three years the

1881
01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 2: US was fighting Isis three years compared to one week.

1882
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 2: One week had more strikes in Gaza than three years

1883
01:42:25,640 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 2: in Iraq. To further put it in perspective about how

1884
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:32,320
Speaker 2: alarming this is from the jump that what is happening

1885
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:35,880
Speaker 2: is not fucking normal warfare and instead it is genocide.

1886
01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:40,880
Speaker 2: On October twelfth, twenty twenty three, merely days after October seventh,

1887
01:42:41,200 --> 01:42:44,599
Speaker 2: the Israeli air force had dropped about six thousand bombs

1888
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:48,759
Speaker 2: throughout the Gaza Strip. At the time, military experts stated

1889
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:51,280
Speaker 2: that the number of strikes carried out by the IDF

1890
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:55,439
Speaker 2: since the outbreak of hostilities was quote striking, and it

1891
01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:58,040
Speaker 2: said it was greater in number than the US military

1892
01:42:58,200 --> 01:43:00,680
Speaker 2: used in the month of the campaign against ISIS in

1893
01:43:00,760 --> 01:43:05,320
Speaker 2: Iraq in Syria. Mark Duralsko, a Dutch military adviser and

1894
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:09,120
Speaker 2: former UN war crimes investigator in Libya, said in less

1895
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 2: than a week, Israel dropped the number of bombs that

1896
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:15,600
Speaker 2: the US dropped in Afghanistan in a year, in a

1897
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:19,840
Speaker 2: much smaller and denser area where the margin of error increases.

1898
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 2: During the most intense year of the American fighting in Afghanistan,

1899
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:26,679
Speaker 2: a little more than seven thousand, four hundred and twenty

1900
01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:30,360
Speaker 2: three bombs were dropped during the entire war in Libya,

1901
01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:34,080
Speaker 2: NATO reported dropping more than seventy six hundred bombs and

1902
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:38,240
Speaker 2: missiles from aircraft and not even a month after October seventh.

1903
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:42,439
Speaker 2: On November two, twenty twenty three, Euromed Human Rights Monitor

1904
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:45,160
Speaker 2: said in a press release that Israel had dropped more

1905
01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:49,160
Speaker 2: than twenty five thousand tons of explosives on the Gaza Strip,

1906
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:54,240
Speaker 2: equivalent to two nuclear bombs. The press release said that

1907
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:58,360
Speaker 2: due to technological developments affecting the potency of bombs, the

1908
01:43:58,439 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 2: explosives dropped on Gaza may be twice as powerful as

1909
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:05,720
Speaker 2: a nuclear bomb. This means that the destructive power of

1910
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 2: the explosives dropped on Gaza exceeds that of the bomb

1911
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:13,799
Speaker 2: dropped in Hiroshima, noting that the area of the Japanese

1912
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:17,400
Speaker 2: city is nine hundred square kilometers, while the area of

1913
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:21,640
Speaker 2: Gaza does not even exceed three hundred and sixty square kilometers.

1914
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:26,400
Speaker 2: The rights group's statement underlines that Israel uses bombs with

1915
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:30,240
Speaker 2: huge destructive power, some of which range from one hundred

1916
01:44:30,240 --> 01:44:33,040
Speaker 2: and fifty to one thousand kilograms, and they cited a

1917
01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:36,479
Speaker 2: statement at the time in November by Israeli war Minister

1918
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 2: Yoev Galant that declared that more than ten thousand bombs

1919
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:44,559
Speaker 2: had been dropped on Gaza City alone and then Israel's

1920
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 2: use of internationally banned weapons in its attacks on the

1921
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:51,680
Speaker 2: Gaza Strip has been documented, said EUROMED Monitor, especially the

1922
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:55,839
Speaker 2: use of cluster and phosphorus bombs, which are waxy, toxic

1923
01:44:55,960 --> 01:45:00,000
Speaker 2: substances that react quickly to oxygen and cause severe sound,

1924
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 2: second and third degree burns. The Euromed Monitor team also

1925
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:07,680
Speaker 2: documented injuries among Gossins due to Israeli airstrikes that are

1926
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:12,479
Speaker 2: similar to those caused by the aforementioned cluster bombs. These small,

1927
01:45:12,680 --> 01:45:17,680
Speaker 2: high explosive bombs cause penetrating shrapnel, wounds and explosions inside

1928
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:21,280
Speaker 2: the body, leaving victims with severe burns that lead to

1929
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:26,000
Speaker 2: skin melting off and sometimes to death. Fragments from these

1930
01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:30,080
Speaker 2: bombs cause unusual swelling and poisoning of the body, plus

1931
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:33,880
Speaker 2: internal injuries from transparent fragments that do not even appear

1932
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 2: in X rays. Euromed Monitor said Israel's use of highly

1933
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:42,719
Speaker 2: explosive bombs in densely populated areas poses the single greatest

1934
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:46,880
Speaker 2: threat to civilians and modern armed conflicts, and explains the

1935
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:50,879
Speaker 2: complete leveling of residential neighborhoods in Gaza and the overall

1936
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:56,080
Speaker 2: severity of the widespread devastation there. According to euromed Monitor,

1937
01:45:56,120 --> 01:45:59,360
Speaker 2: which is a Geneva based human rights organization, the Israeli

1938
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:03,519
Speaker 2: Army as admitted to bombing over twelve thousand targets in

1939
01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:07,439
Speaker 2: the Gaza Strip, with a recordality of bombs exceeding ten

1940
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:12,200
Speaker 2: kilograms of explosives per individual. It highlighted that the weight

1941
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:15,440
Speaker 2: of the nuclear bombs dropped by the US on Hiroshima

1942
01:46:15,479 --> 01:46:17,960
Speaker 2: and Nagasaki in Japan at the end of World War

1943
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:21,400
Speaker 2: II in August of nineteen forty five was estimated to

1944
01:46:21,479 --> 01:46:26,160
Speaker 2: be about fifteen thousand tons of explosives. The Rights organization

1945
01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:30,040
Speaker 2: further stressed that Israel's destructive and arbitrary attacks are in

1946
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:34,599
Speaker 2: violation of international humanitarian law, which stipulates that the protection

1947
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:39,320
Speaker 2: of civilians is obligatory in all cases and under any circumstances,

1948
01:46:39,640 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 2: and that killing civilians is considered a war crime in

1949
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 2: both international and non international armed conflicts and may amount

1950
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:52,280
Speaker 2: to a crime against humanity. The Hague Conventions of eighteen

1951
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:55,120
Speaker 2: ninety nine and nineteen oh seven and the nineteen forty

1952
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:59,559
Speaker 2: nine Geneva Convention both regulates fundamental human rights in times

1953
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:02,880
Speaker 2: of war to prevent lethal health effects from weapons that

1954
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:06,320
Speaker 2: are prohibited by international law, some of which because they

1955
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:11,080
Speaker 2: have the potential to cause quote unquote genocide. According to

1956
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:14,519
Speaker 2: Article twenty five of the Hague Regulations relating to the

1957
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:18,400
Speaker 2: Laws and Customs of Land Warfare, quote, the attack or

1958
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 2: bombardment by whatever means of towns, villages, dwellings or buildings

1959
01:47:23,240 --> 01:47:27,320
Speaker 2: which are undefended is prohibited, So think of all of

1960
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:30,599
Speaker 2: that as you listen to this next bit. Biden has

1961
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:35,439
Speaker 2: since authorized continuous arms transfers and more than fourteen billion

1962
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:40,879
Speaker 2: dollars in additional aid to sustain Israel's Gaza offensive. Moreover,

1963
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:45,840
Speaker 2: Biden's administration has vetoed three UN Security Council proposals that

1964
01:47:45,880 --> 01:47:50,120
Speaker 2: would have called for a ceasefire. Hatem Abudeya, the chair

1965
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:53,519
Speaker 2: of the US Palestinian Community Network, said Biden will be

1966
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 2: remembered above all for enabling Israel's crimes against humanity.

1967
01:47:58,520 --> 01:47:58,840
Speaker 3: Quote.

1968
01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:01,240
Speaker 2: He could have turned and the tap of money and

1969
01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:05,360
Speaker 2: weapons off in October, but he allowed this genocide to happen.

1970
01:48:05,960 --> 01:48:09,160
Speaker 2: He is complicit and that's what will be written on

1971
01:48:09,400 --> 01:48:14,040
Speaker 2: his tombstone. And with that, we'll be continuing this discussion

1972
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:16,800
Speaker 2: in the next episode, where we will talk about the

1973
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:20,160
Speaker 2: relationship between Biden and Palestinians and will also cover to

1974
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:23,920
Speaker 2: and Yahoo's deranged speech that he gave in Congress last week.

1975
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:41,519
Speaker 2: Until then, pre Palestine, Hello and welcome back to it

1976
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:45,799
Speaker 2: could happen here. My name is Sharene Still, and today

1977
01:48:46,040 --> 01:48:48,680
Speaker 2: is part two of our two part series about a

1978
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,760
Speaker 2: Palestine update as well as a testament as to why

1979
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:57,479
Speaker 2: Biden's legacy will forever be genocide. In the last episode,

1980
01:48:57,560 --> 01:48:59,920
Speaker 2: we talked about the amount of weapons that Biden had

1981
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:03,240
Speaker 2: has been sending to Israel and what this destruction has caused,

1982
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:06,960
Speaker 2: as well as the reactions to his withdrawal from his campaign.

1983
01:49:07,680 --> 01:49:09,360
Speaker 2: So I want to get into a brief history of

1984
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:12,480
Speaker 2: Biden's history and politics, as well as what his relationship

1985
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:15,719
Speaker 2: has been like with Palestinians in general. So let's start

1986
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:19,880
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy. Following his entry into politics in nineteen seventy,

1987
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:24,240
Speaker 2: Biden quickly rose from local to national prominence, mounting a

1988
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:27,800
Speaker 2: successful dark horse campaign to represent Delaware in the US

1989
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:32,599
Speaker 2: Senate in nineteen seventy two. After nearly four decades in Congress,

1990
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:36,400
Speaker 2: he became vice president under Barack Obama, and in twenty

1991
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:40,759
Speaker 2: twenty one, he won the presidency himself. So the current

1992
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:44,240
Speaker 2: president does not hail from a political dynasty, and he

1993
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:48,160
Speaker 2: is not an exceptional orator. His success in politics is

1994
01:49:48,280 --> 01:49:52,360
Speaker 2: often credited to his interpersonal skills and his ability to

1995
01:49:52,479 --> 01:49:57,959
Speaker 2: project empathy. That sense of compassion, however, has never extended

1996
01:49:58,120 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 2: to Palestinians. After Biden's announcement of withdrawing from the race,

1997
01:50:03,439 --> 01:50:06,759
Speaker 2: Jewish Voice for Peace Action said in a statement quote,

1998
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:10,639
Speaker 2: for nine and a half months, President Biden has funded

1999
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:14,519
Speaker 2: and armed the brutal Israeli genocide of Palestinians and Gaza,

2000
01:50:15,040 --> 01:50:18,599
Speaker 2: making the US directly complicit in the killing of at

2001
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:23,400
Speaker 2: least thirty nine thousand people, including over fifteen thousand children.

2002
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:28,320
Speaker 2: Americans have watched in horror and outrage as Biden sent

2003
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:31,799
Speaker 2: to the Israeli government the weapons it used to wipe

2004
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:39,640
Speaker 2: out entire generations of Palestinian families, to destroy hospitals, bakeries, schools, mosques, churches, universities,

2005
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:45,520
Speaker 2: refugee camps, homes, and Gaza's entire healthcare system and electricity

2006
01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:50,519
Speaker 2: and water grids, and beyond policy. Even Biden's rhetoric at

2007
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:56,719
Speaker 2: times seemed dismissive of Israeli atrocities and Palestinian suffering. Last October,

2008
01:50:56,840 --> 01:51:00,360
Speaker 2: he said, I have no notion that the Palestinians telling

2009
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:03,400
Speaker 2: the truth about how many people are killed. I'm sure

2010
01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:06,559
Speaker 2: innocens have been killed, and it's the price of waging

2011
01:51:06,600 --> 01:51:11,400
Speaker 2: a war. It's terrible, fucking terrible. But that stance has

2012
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:16,840
Speaker 2: clearly caused Biden issues both domestically and abroad. Even before

2013
01:51:16,920 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 2: Biden delivered a disastrous debate performance on June twenty seventh,

2014
01:51:21,160 --> 01:51:24,200
Speaker 2: he had started to trail Trump in public opinion polls.

2015
01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:29,200
Speaker 2: Parts of his Democratic base, including young people, progressives, Arabs,

2016
01:51:29,240 --> 01:51:33,680
Speaker 2: and Muslims, voiced for months their frustration and anger over

2017
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 2: Biden's support for Israel. Groups like the USCPR the US

2018
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:42,280
Speaker 2: Campaign for Palaicing in Rights argued that Biden's age and

2019
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:45,960
Speaker 2: debate performance were only one factor in the pressure that

2020
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:49,519
Speaker 2: forced him from the presidential race. I'm going to read

2021
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:54,160
Speaker 2: their statement because it's quite good quote. Nothing will erase

2022
01:51:54,280 --> 01:51:58,280
Speaker 2: the fact that Biden's legacy is and always will be genocide.

2023
01:51:59,200 --> 01:52:02,040
Speaker 2: It was not Biden's failed debate that showed he is

2024
01:52:02,160 --> 01:52:05,560
Speaker 2: unfit to lead. It was the tens of thousands of

2025
01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:10,320
Speaker 2: bombs he sent to kill Palestinian families. It was his callous,

2026
01:52:10,680 --> 01:52:14,479
Speaker 2: dystopian disregard for Palestinian lives as he ate an ice

2027
01:52:14,600 --> 01:52:18,000
Speaker 2: cream cone while speaking of a potential ceasefire that he

2028
01:52:18,160 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 2: took no action to make Israel agree to. It was

2029
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:26,240
Speaker 2: his condemnation of thousands of student protesters on college campuses

2030
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:30,840
Speaker 2: demanding an end to the genocide in Gaza. Other commentators

2031
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:34,560
Speaker 2: likewise argued that Biden failed to show enough concern for

2032
01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:39,479
Speaker 2: the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza. Aaron David Miller, a

2033
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 2: veteran former US official, described the situation bluntly in an

2034
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:47,280
Speaker 2: interview with The New Yorker in April. Do I think

2035
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:50,000
Speaker 2: that Joe Biden has the same depth of feeling and

2036
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:52,720
Speaker 2: empathy for the Palestinians of Gaza as he does for

2037
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:57,479
Speaker 2: the Israelis. No, he doesn't, nor does he condicate. I

2038
01:52:57,560 --> 01:53:02,360
Speaker 2: don't think there's any doubt about that. Additionally, Biden's withdrawal

2039
01:53:02,439 --> 01:53:05,879
Speaker 2: from the race followed a particularly deadly month of violence

2040
01:53:05,960 --> 01:53:10,400
Speaker 2: in Gaza. Two Israeli airstrikes killed more than sixty people

2041
01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:14,200
Speaker 2: the week leading up to his withdrawal, including in Israeli

2042
01:53:14,280 --> 01:53:18,200
Speaker 2: designated quote unquote safe zones and at a UN's school

2043
01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:23,320
Speaker 2: where families were sheltering, and then the ICJ, the UN's

2044
01:53:23,360 --> 01:53:27,120
Speaker 2: top court, ruled only a few days before his withdrawal

2045
01:53:27,479 --> 01:53:31,080
Speaker 2: that Israel must end its illegal occupation of the West Bank,

2046
01:53:31,400 --> 01:53:35,760
Speaker 2: East Jerusalem and Gaza, removing settlers from the Palestinian territories,

2047
01:53:36,040 --> 01:53:40,160
Speaker 2: and pay reparations to Palestinians. The court also found that

2048
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:47,160
Speaker 2: Palestinians under occupation suffer quote systemic discrimination based on race, religion,

2049
01:53:47,360 --> 01:53:50,759
Speaker 2: or ethnic origin, and it urged other states to stop

2050
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:54,120
Speaker 2: supporting Israel in maintaining the current situation, which is also

2051
01:53:54,200 --> 01:54:00,360
Speaker 2: called apartheid. USCPR Action executive director Ahmad Abuznid in the

2052
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:04,200
Speaker 2: group's statement, the millions of people who have mobilized in

2053
01:54:04,280 --> 01:54:07,639
Speaker 2: the streets and the voting booth demanding a permanent cease

2054
01:54:07,680 --> 01:54:10,960
Speaker 2: fire and an end to military funding to Israel have

2055
01:54:11,160 --> 01:54:14,760
Speaker 2: been clear. There is no going back to the status quo.

2056
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:21,080
Speaker 2: It remains unclear how differently the next Democratic nominee might

2057
01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:25,759
Speaker 2: approach Israel. Harris, the most likely nominee as of now, obviously,

2058
01:54:26,280 --> 01:54:30,719
Speaker 2: has repeatedly asserted Israel's right to defend itself while expressing

2059
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:33,680
Speaker 2: sympathy for Palestinians when calling for at least day six

2060
01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:37,040
Speaker 2: weeks ease fire in March, which is a little hypocritical.

2061
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:40,760
Speaker 2: But she was also part of the Biden administration that

2062
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:44,120
Speaker 2: sent all those bombs to Israel. She does not get

2063
01:54:44,160 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 2: a pass. She does not get to be distanced from that.

2064
01:54:47,520 --> 01:54:50,160
Speaker 2: And on the other side of things, Trump called Biden

2065
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:54,760
Speaker 2: quote a very bad Palestinian during the first presidential debate

2066
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:58,600
Speaker 2: on June twenty seventh for not helping Israel quote finish

2067
01:54:58,720 --> 01:55:03,120
Speaker 2: the job in God's During Trump's presidency, he moved the

2068
01:55:03,280 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 2: US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and he recognized

2069
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:11,360
Speaker 2: Israel's sovereignty over the occupied Syrian region of the Golan Heights,

2070
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:16,440
Speaker 2: Whorrena Enyahu named a Jewish only settlement after Trump. But

2071
01:55:16,600 --> 01:55:20,320
Speaker 2: as the genocide in Gaza continues, organizers are quick to

2072
01:55:20,400 --> 01:55:24,440
Speaker 2: point out the Democratic Party's complicity as a whole. Hu

2073
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:29,320
Speaker 2: Taifa Ahmad, spokesperson for the Abandoned Biden Campaign, said, we

2074
01:55:29,440 --> 01:55:32,880
Speaker 2: don't think this is solely a Joe Biden problem. This

2075
01:55:33,120 --> 01:55:37,200
Speaker 2: is an institutional problem. In an online statement, the group

2076
01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:41,760
Speaker 2: invited Harris to meet with its organizers. The Abandoned Biden

2077
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:44,720
Speaker 2: Campaign was one of the first coalitions to call for

2078
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:49,400
Speaker 2: Democrats to replace Biden. We were mocked, denigrated, spoken down to,

2079
01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:53,200
Speaker 2: he said, but organizers stood firm in their principles as

2080
01:55:53,240 --> 01:55:56,120
Speaker 2: they gained momentum, and they will continue to do so

2081
01:55:56,480 --> 01:56:00,840
Speaker 2: as the quote disastrous and criminal approach to Gaza continues

2082
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:04,680
Speaker 2: under the Biden foreign policy, with officials like Anthony Blinken,

2083
01:56:04,920 --> 01:56:09,760
Speaker 2: Jake Sullivan, and Brett McGirk. Ahmed said, abandon Biden means

2084
01:56:09,840 --> 01:56:14,520
Speaker 2: abandoning this legacy and the decisions Biden made surrounding Israel.

2085
01:56:15,080 --> 01:56:18,880
Speaker 2: Given the Democratic Parties lionizing the president since his exit

2086
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:23,160
Speaker 2: from the race, its becoming increasingly clear we may have

2087
01:56:23,240 --> 01:56:26,840
Speaker 2: to extend this to whoever becomes the next nominee. He

2088
01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:29,960
Speaker 2: indicated that they will continue to call on voters not

2089
01:56:30,120 --> 01:56:34,760
Speaker 2: to support any candidate who maintains Biden's blanket support for Israel.

2090
01:56:35,840 --> 01:56:39,480
Speaker 2: The Abandoned Biden Group released a statement referencing the June debate,

2091
01:56:39,960 --> 01:56:43,560
Speaker 2: during which Biden at times was noncoherent to say the least.

2092
01:56:44,320 --> 01:56:47,800
Speaker 2: It was largely his performance that triggered a wave of calls,

2093
01:56:48,080 --> 01:56:51,839
Speaker 2: including from prominent Democratic Congress members, for Biden to step aside.

2094
01:56:52,400 --> 01:56:56,360
Speaker 2: The statement read, it is clear that the DNC machinery

2095
01:56:56,520 --> 01:57:00,440
Speaker 2: pressure Joe Biden to step down only after losing confidence

2096
01:57:00,520 --> 01:57:03,720
Speaker 2: in his ability to lead due to his cognitive decline.

2097
01:57:04,440 --> 01:57:08,160
Speaker 2: This action came not when he was enthusiastically supporting and

2098
01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:12,800
Speaker 2: sponsoring the genocide in Gaza, but when his declining capabilities

2099
01:57:13,080 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 2: could no longer be concealed. Biden's departure from the race

2100
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:21,120
Speaker 2: comes ahead of the party's upcoming national convention, which is

2101
01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:24,160
Speaker 2: slated for August nineteenth, through the twenty second in Chicago,

2102
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:29,160
Speaker 2: and now with just under three months before the general election. Harris,

2103
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 2: whom the Clintons and other Democratic leaders have also endorsed,

2104
01:57:33,440 --> 01:57:36,040
Speaker 2: will need to gain the support of the majority of

2105
01:57:36,160 --> 01:57:39,720
Speaker 2: the nearly four thousand delegates to win the party's nomination.

2106
01:57:40,360 --> 01:57:42,400
Speaker 2: But for many voters pushing for an end to the

2107
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:46,840
Speaker 2: Gaza genocide, the path forward remains the same. A coalition

2108
01:57:47,120 --> 01:57:49,879
Speaker 2: of more than one hundred and twenty five anti oppression

2109
01:57:50,040 --> 01:57:53,720
Speaker 2: organizations said in a statement that it is still preparing

2110
01:57:54,080 --> 01:57:57,320
Speaker 2: to gather tens of thousands to march on the Democratic

2111
01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:02,040
Speaker 2: National Convention on August nineteenth. The Coalition to March on

2112
01:58:02,120 --> 01:58:05,640
Speaker 2: the DNC said when it comes to the genocide and Gaza,

2113
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:09,120
Speaker 2: there is no difference between Biden, Harris or any of

2114
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:12,760
Speaker 2: the likely candidates for the nomination. They are all complicit.

2115
01:58:13,400 --> 01:58:16,160
Speaker 2: This protest is about more than the name at the

2116
01:58:16,240 --> 01:58:19,160
Speaker 2: top of a ballot. It is about stopping the most

2117
01:58:19,280 --> 01:58:23,600
Speaker 2: horrific crime against humanity that we have seen in this century.

2118
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:27,720
Speaker 2: The statement said that the organizations that joined the coalition

2119
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:32,480
Speaker 2: quote recognize the links between the Palestinian liberation struggle and

2120
01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:37,960
Speaker 2: their own struggles involving issues like police accountability, immigration, labor,

2121
01:58:38,360 --> 01:58:43,360
Speaker 2: reproductive rights, and LGBTQIA plus rights. They also recognize that

2122
01:58:43,480 --> 01:58:47,440
Speaker 2: Democratic Party higher ups often neglect their communities in favor

2123
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:51,440
Speaker 2: of serving the rich and powerful. Quote those responsible for

2124
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:55,360
Speaker 2: the genocide and not just Biden are often obstacles to

2125
01:58:55,480 --> 01:58:58,800
Speaker 2: progress in the same movements they pay lip service to

2126
01:58:59,160 --> 01:59:04,000
Speaker 2: in order to boost their campaigns. USCPR Action said the

2127
01:59:04,120 --> 01:59:07,840
Speaker 2: masses of millions of Americans protesting in the streets will

2128
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:11,160
Speaker 2: certainly not wait for the next president. While US made

2129
01:59:11,240 --> 01:59:15,160
Speaker 2: bombs paid for with our tax dollars are dropping in Gaza.

2130
01:59:15,880 --> 01:59:20,040
Speaker 2: Regardless of who the Democratic presidential nominee and candidate elect is,

2131
01:59:20,480 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 2: the next steps are clear. The group called on all

2132
01:59:23,720 --> 01:59:26,840
Speaker 2: members of Congress to disrupt or protest the Nyaho's plan

2133
01:59:26,920 --> 01:59:29,920
Speaker 2: addressed to Congress which happened last week, and they urge

2134
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:34,960
Speaker 2: lawmakers to pass an arms embargo against Israel. The group said, quote,

2135
01:59:35,320 --> 01:59:40,040
Speaker 2: as Israel kills a Palestinian every four minutes and escalates

2136
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:46,080
Speaker 2: regional war, justice could not wait another day. Let's take

2137
01:59:46,080 --> 01:59:48,840
Speaker 2: a break ry here before we jump into speech.

2138
01:59:48,640 --> 01:59:50,000
Speaker 3: That Nanyaho gave last week.

2139
01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:51,760
Speaker 5: So be right back.

2140
02:00:01,960 --> 02:00:02,640
Speaker 4: And we're back.

2141
02:00:03,720 --> 02:00:05,840
Speaker 2: So I had written the bulk of both of these

2142
02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:09,240
Speaker 2: episodes before Prime Minision and Enya who gave his deranged

2143
02:00:09,240 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 2: speech at Congress last week, but of course I had

2144
02:00:12,680 --> 02:00:16,560
Speaker 2: to mention it because it was worse than I ever imagined. Actually,

2145
02:00:17,400 --> 02:00:20,600
Speaker 2: this speech was then Enya whose fourth appearance before the

2146
02:00:20,680 --> 02:00:24,680
Speaker 2: legislative body of Congress, and several high profile Democrats were

2147
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:28,960
Speaker 2: noticeably absent, an apparent protest to Israel's war on Gaza

2148
02:00:29,120 --> 02:00:33,480
Speaker 2: and the humanitarians crisis that it sparked. Rashida Talib, though

2149
02:00:33,800 --> 02:00:38,320
Speaker 2: the representative of Michigan's twelfth congressional district, was present. She is,

2150
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:41,640
Speaker 2: mayor remind you, the first Palestine American woman to serve

2151
02:00:41,720 --> 02:00:44,600
Speaker 2: in Congress and one of the first two Muslim women

2152
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:49,400
Speaker 2: elected to Congress. She was there sitting during the Enyahu's speech,

2153
02:00:49,640 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 2: wearing a coffea and holding a sign that read war

2154
02:00:52,920 --> 02:00:55,920
Speaker 2: criminal on one side and guilty of genocide on the

2155
02:00:56,040 --> 02:00:58,720
Speaker 2: other side, and she was holding the sign up throughout

2156
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:02,960
Speaker 2: his speech. July twenty fourth, the day of Nan Yahoo's speech,

2157
02:01:03,320 --> 02:01:06,840
Speaker 2: also happened to be her birthday. So if my blood

2158
02:01:07,040 --> 02:01:10,000
Speaker 2: was boiling thousands of miles away watching on my little

2159
02:01:10,040 --> 02:01:13,880
Speaker 2: computer screen, I could only imagine how she felt sitting

2160
02:01:13,960 --> 02:01:17,880
Speaker 2: in that room as everyone cheered and applauded and stood

2161
02:01:18,040 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 2: up for this war criminal who was spewing lie after

2162
02:01:21,760 --> 02:01:25,960
Speaker 2: lie in the entirety of his speech, as our tax

2163
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:31,160
Speaker 2: dollars are supplying him with more weapons to kill innocent people.

2164
02:01:32,160 --> 02:01:35,960
Speaker 2: The almost certain Democratic nominee for President, Kamala Harris, was

2165
02:01:36,040 --> 02:01:39,680
Speaker 2: also not present. Though she would ordinarily preside over such

2166
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:43,680
Speaker 2: a speech in Congress as vice president, her campaign cited

2167
02:01:43,720 --> 02:01:46,880
Speaker 2: scheduling conference. I guess she gave a speech in Indianapolis

2168
02:01:46,920 --> 02:01:50,480
Speaker 2: earlier that day. I also just wanted to highlight quickly

2169
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:54,080
Speaker 2: the hypocrisy of the vast majority of Democrats right now,

2170
02:01:54,200 --> 02:01:58,000
Speaker 2: especially the ones that criticized the speech that the nayah

2171
02:01:58,000 --> 02:01:59,920
Speaker 2: who gave it Congress or said that he should have

2172
02:02:00,040 --> 02:02:03,360
Speaker 2: given speech at all. How much stronger would it have

2173
02:02:03,560 --> 02:02:07,800
Speaker 2: been if they sat by Rashida in that room instead

2174
02:02:07,800 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 2: of leaving the only Palaestini member of Congress sitting by

2175
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:15,040
Speaker 2: herself on her fucking birthday listening to the person that

2176
02:02:15,160 --> 02:02:18,840
Speaker 2: has genocided her people. It would have been such an

2177
02:02:18,880 --> 02:02:23,680
Speaker 2: amazing demonstration of support and strength to have her colleagues

2178
02:02:23,840 --> 02:02:28,840
Speaker 2: sitting with her, but instead she was alone Naenyah who

2179
02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:32,839
Speaker 2: gave this speech seeking to rally support for continuing Israel's

2180
02:02:32,840 --> 02:02:37,320
Speaker 2: military campaign aka genocide in Gaza. He was greeted by

2181
02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:42,400
Speaker 2: anti war protesters outside the Capitol understandably so. The day

2182
02:02:42,480 --> 02:02:46,080
Speaker 2: before the speech, over five hundred Jewish people flooded the

2183
02:02:46,160 --> 02:02:50,680
Speaker 2: Capitol building demanding arms embargo to Israel and demanding a ceasefire.

2184
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:55,040
Speaker 2: They shouted things like let Gaza live, free Palestine, not

2185
02:02:55,200 --> 02:02:58,560
Speaker 2: in our name, and stop genocide. And then during the

2186
02:02:58,720 --> 02:03:02,960
Speaker 2: Enyahu's speech, he blasted these protesters from his podium, calling

2187
02:03:03,040 --> 02:03:07,760
Speaker 2: them Iran's useful idiots and calling pro Palestinian protester as

2188
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:11,960
Speaker 2: broadly as Hamas supporters and as nt Enyah who praise

2189
02:03:12,040 --> 02:03:16,680
Speaker 2: Israeli military members as lions of Judah. Capital police was

2190
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:21,160
Speaker 2: using pepper spray against pro Palestinian protesters just outside the doors.

2191
02:03:21,840 --> 02:03:25,240
Speaker 2: The irony of this speaks for itself, and we all

2192
02:03:25,280 --> 02:03:27,960
Speaker 2: know by now. I hope that our police trains with

2193
02:03:28,160 --> 02:03:34,040
Speaker 2: the Israeli military. Adam Abusala, a Arab American activist from Dearborn, Michigan, said,

2194
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:36,480
Speaker 2: it is a shame that the Enyaho was invited to

2195
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:40,480
Speaker 2: speak to Congress. It's a disgrace that members from both

2196
02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:43,800
Speaker 2: parties have invited him to speak here. It's a disgrace

2197
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:47,560
Speaker 2: that Kamala Harris, the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party,

2198
02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:51,320
Speaker 2: will meet with him. Abu Salah told Al Jazeira this

2199
02:03:51,480 --> 02:03:53,440
Speaker 2: at an anti na Enya who protest that was near

2200
02:03:53,520 --> 02:03:56,680
Speaker 2: the Capitol. He said, we are here to say enough

2201
02:03:56,800 --> 02:03:59,480
Speaker 2: is enough. As Americans, we will not stand for that.

2202
02:04:00,560 --> 02:04:03,640
Speaker 2: In his speech, Naenyahoo praised the US Congress as a

2203
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:07,560
Speaker 2: citadel of democracy and described the genocide and Gaza as

2204
02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:12,600
Speaker 2: a clash between barbarism and civilization. He said and repeated

2205
02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:16,800
Speaker 2: lie after lie, and people stood up and applauded after

2206
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:22,760
Speaker 2: practically every sentence he repeated, proven untrue, hasbar propaganda lies,

2207
02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:26,680
Speaker 2: repeating false claims about October seventh about how men were

2208
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:31,280
Speaker 2: beheaded and babies were burned. Alive investigations, including those done

2209
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:34,800
Speaker 2: by Israel, have found that little evidence has emerged to

2210
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:38,280
Speaker 2: substantiate some of the most gruesome stories pushed by Israeli

2211
02:04:38,360 --> 02:04:41,840
Speaker 2: leaders like Naan Yahoo. And these lies were a part

2212
02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:44,880
Speaker 2: of a methodology that was designed to bolster a false

2213
02:04:45,000 --> 02:04:49,320
Speaker 2: notion of Palestinian's being an inherently subhuman people. I'm going

2214
02:04:49,360 --> 02:04:52,240
Speaker 2: to play this clip from Mehdi Hassan about the most

2215
02:04:52,320 --> 02:04:54,680
Speaker 2: egregious lie, in my opinion, that was spread around for

2216
02:04:54,840 --> 02:04:57,280
Speaker 2: months and is still being spread around today as we

2217
02:04:57,320 --> 02:05:01,000
Speaker 2: see from Danyahu's speech. But it's about the forty headed babies.

2218
02:05:01,680 --> 02:05:05,240
Speaker 10: Forty beheaded babies. How can we forget the most emotive

2219
02:05:05,280 --> 02:05:08,240
Speaker 10: and most defensive lie of this entire conflict, A lie

2220
02:05:08,320 --> 02:05:10,320
Speaker 10: that went viral and was repeated by the President of

2221
02:05:10,360 --> 02:05:13,760
Speaker 10: the United States, who falsely said he saw pictures of

2222
02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:17,720
Speaker 10: beheaded babies, even though there weren't any, nor were their

2223
02:05:17,800 --> 02:05:20,840
Speaker 10: babies burned in ovens. As Israeli newspaper Haretes proved in

2224
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:23,600
Speaker 10: their investigation, they were all lies. In fact, according to

2225
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:26,760
Speaker 10: data released by Israel's Social Security Agency, Tragically, there was

2226
02:05:26,840 --> 02:05:29,320
Speaker 10: one baby killed on October the seventh, ten month old

2227
02:05:29,400 --> 02:05:31,920
Speaker 10: Miela Cohen. Maye her memory be a blessing, but in

2228
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:35,480
Speaker 10: the interests of facts, she was not beheaded. Now, one

2229
02:05:35,560 --> 02:05:38,360
Speaker 10: baby killed is one baby too many, a tragedy, a crime,

2230
02:05:38,880 --> 02:05:42,160
Speaker 10: But forty beheaded babies is just a cynical, reckless, repulsive

2231
02:05:42,200 --> 02:05:44,200
Speaker 10: lie that was then used to justify the killing of

2232
02:05:44,400 --> 02:05:45,880
Speaker 10: hundreds of Palestinian babies.

2233
02:05:46,280 --> 02:05:50,160
Speaker 2: Eljazerra released documentary called October seventh that goes into the

2234
02:05:50,240 --> 02:05:53,320
Speaker 2: potential source of a lot of these lies. It's a

2235
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:56,520
Speaker 2: man named Josie Lindell who was an ultra Orthodox first

2236
02:05:56,560 --> 02:06:00,000
Speaker 2: responder who operates throughout Israel and occasionally in South Face.

2237
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:03,200
Speaker 2: He was interviewed in this documentary and he is the

2238
02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:06,280
Speaker 2: original source of the beheaded babies lie, and he was

2239
02:06:06,320 --> 02:06:08,280
Speaker 2: a source of what formed the basis of the New

2240
02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:12,360
Speaker 2: York Times now debunked investigation into the alleged systematic sexual

2241
02:06:12,400 --> 02:06:16,680
Speaker 2: abuse perpetrated by Hamas October seventh. In these interviews, len

2242
02:06:16,760 --> 02:06:19,360
Speaker 2: Dau comes off as almost like a used car salesman.

2243
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:21,760
Speaker 2: One of his claims is that he found a pregnant

2244
02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:25,600
Speaker 2: woman whose quote, stomach was butchered open and whose baby

2245
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:28,320
Speaker 2: that was connected to the cord was stabbed. And he

2246
02:06:28,480 --> 02:06:30,400
Speaker 2: insists in the reporter that if you want to see

2247
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:32,680
Speaker 2: their picture, I have a picture of it. And then

2248
02:06:32,720 --> 02:06:35,400
Speaker 2: the reporter apologizes when looking at this photo because they

2249
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:38,160
Speaker 2: can't see a baby there, and then Lendau's stammers and

2250
02:06:38,240 --> 02:06:40,720
Speaker 2: tries to cover his tracks because the photo, as it

2251
02:06:40,800 --> 02:06:43,880
Speaker 2: turns out, depicts what the narrator of this documentary describes

2252
02:06:43,920 --> 02:06:47,880
Speaker 2: as a quote unidentical piece of charred flesh, which, as

2253
02:06:47,960 --> 02:06:50,440
Speaker 2: it happens, is not some unlike many of the bodies

2254
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:55,440
Speaker 2: that phil Lendau's accounts of unspeakable depravity, and as the

2255
02:06:55,560 --> 02:06:59,600
Speaker 2: documentary further notes, the IDF has repeatedly debunked those stories

2256
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:02,800
Speaker 2: on the bay of basic forensic evidence, most notably when

2257
02:07:02,840 --> 02:07:06,320
Speaker 2: it revised its total death count by two hundred because

2258
02:07:06,360 --> 02:07:09,080
Speaker 2: it realized that some of the dead bodies were Palestinian.

2259
02:07:09,560 --> 02:07:12,640
Speaker 2: And even though the IDF lies a lot, it does

2260
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:17,480
Speaker 2: concede eventually with enough pressure the truth. By November, the

2261
02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:21,360
Speaker 2: IDF conceded that it had actually deployed Apache helicopters and

2262
02:07:21,480 --> 02:07:24,200
Speaker 2: tanks to the Nova Music Festival that may have killed

2263
02:07:24,280 --> 02:07:27,680
Speaker 2: some of the Nova Festival concertgoers in accordance to something

2264
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:29,920
Speaker 2: that is called the Hannibal directive, which I will also

2265
02:07:30,040 --> 02:07:32,400
Speaker 2: mention in a bit, but it's a doctrine named for

2266
02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:35,480
Speaker 2: a general who poisoned himself rather than be questioned by

2267
02:07:35,560 --> 02:07:39,400
Speaker 2: his robin captors, and in a similar vein this directive

2268
02:07:39,480 --> 02:07:42,360
Speaker 2: is basically when the Israeli army is ordered to fire

2269
02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:45,440
Speaker 2: upon its own troops to prevent the enemy from taking

2270
02:07:45,520 --> 02:07:49,560
Speaker 2: those troops hostage around noon on October seventh. According to

2271
02:07:49,720 --> 02:07:53,440
Speaker 2: Israeli newspapers that were cited in this documentary, the IDF

2272
02:07:53,600 --> 02:07:56,400
Speaker 2: may have invoked a version of the Hannibal Directive and

2273
02:07:56,560 --> 02:08:00,840
Speaker 2: expanded it to include Israeli citizens, and in accordance to this,

2274
02:08:01,200 --> 02:08:05,040
Speaker 2: began to blindly open fire with rockets and helicopter gunships

2275
02:08:05,240 --> 02:08:08,000
Speaker 2: on any person or a vehicle seen moving across the

2276
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:12,680
Speaker 2: border to Gaza. In particular, the documentary visits Kabbutz be Air,

2277
02:08:13,200 --> 02:08:16,680
Speaker 2: where a munitions expert demonstrates very strong evidence that some

2278
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:19,440
Speaker 2: of the houses had been hit with IDF tank fire.

2279
02:08:20,120 --> 02:08:24,240
Speaker 2: It was Israeli troops, not Hamas murderers, according to one resident,

2280
02:08:24,440 --> 02:08:28,400
Speaker 2: who killed twelve longtime residents there. But let's go back

2281
02:08:28,400 --> 02:08:33,360
Speaker 2: to Nanyahu's speech. He also lied about civilian casualties and

2282
02:08:33,640 --> 02:08:37,000
Speaker 2: Israel's liberate starving of Gaza. He said in his speech,

2283
02:08:37,400 --> 02:08:40,560
Speaker 2: this is not a clash of civilizations. It's a clash

2284
02:08:40,640 --> 02:08:44,880
Speaker 2: between barbarism and civilization. It's a clash between those who

2285
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:49,000
Speaker 2: glorify death and those who sanctify life. For the forces

2286
02:08:49,000 --> 02:08:52,560
Speaker 2: of civilization to triumph, America and Israel must stand together,

2287
02:08:53,400 --> 02:08:57,840
Speaker 2: because when we stand together, something very simple happens. We win,

2288
02:08:58,880 --> 02:09:02,800
Speaker 2: they lose. Of course, he didn't mention the most daming

2289
02:09:02,840 --> 02:09:07,040
Speaker 2: part of October seventh, the Hannibal Directive. Earlier this month,

2290
02:09:07,280 --> 02:09:10,560
Speaker 2: Haretes reported that the IDF ordered the Hannibal Directive on

2291
02:09:10,640 --> 02:09:15,120
Speaker 2: October seventh to prevent Hamas from taking soldiers captive. It

2292
02:09:15,240 --> 02:09:18,320
Speaker 2: said there was a crazy hysteria and decisions started to

2293
02:09:18,400 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 2: be made without verified information. Documents and testimonies obtained by

2294
02:09:22,920 --> 02:09:27,200
Speaker 2: Heretes revealed the Hannibal operational Order, which directs the use

2295
02:09:27,240 --> 02:09:30,880
Speaker 2: of force to prevent soldiers being taken into captivity, and

2296
02:09:31,000 --> 02:09:34,240
Speaker 2: it was employed at three army facilities that were infiltrated

2297
02:09:34,280 --> 02:09:38,400
Speaker 2: by Hamas. And this potentially endangered civilians as well, which

2298
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:42,360
Speaker 2: we know Israel has killed. We know Israel killed some

2299
02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:45,400
Speaker 2: of its own citizens on October seventh, and now we

2300
02:09:45,560 --> 02:09:47,480
Speaker 2: know that it killed some of its own soldiers.

2301
02:09:48,480 --> 02:09:49,640
Speaker 3: And of course these.

2302
02:09:49,560 --> 02:09:52,920
Speaker 2: Deaths are lumped into this overall death toll that keeps

2303
02:09:52,960 --> 02:09:57,000
Speaker 2: being repeated as being due to only Hamas's attack. I

2304
02:09:57,120 --> 02:10:00,520
Speaker 2: highly recommend reading the Harets report in full. It is

2305
02:10:00,680 --> 02:10:05,080
Speaker 2: damning and important, especially as you see these leaders spouting

2306
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:09,080
Speaker 2: lies and then the NYAHUO praised the families of captives

2307
02:10:09,120 --> 02:10:12,640
Speaker 2: being held in Gaza, and these families are a group

2308
02:10:12,720 --> 02:10:16,240
Speaker 2: that has consistently expressed frustration with the n Yaho back

2309
02:10:16,280 --> 02:10:19,600
Speaker 2: in Israel, but they of course figure prominently in his

2310
02:10:19,680 --> 02:10:23,400
Speaker 2: messaging overseas because he uses them for his own benefit.

2311
02:10:24,280 --> 02:10:27,880
Speaker 2: Believing this whole genocide or a war, if you want

2312
02:10:27,880 --> 02:10:31,640
Speaker 2: to call it that, whatever about the hostages is disingenuous

2313
02:10:31,760 --> 02:10:32,240
Speaker 2: at best.

2314
02:10:32,320 --> 02:10:32,880
Speaker 3: At this point.

2315
02:10:34,120 --> 02:10:37,600
Speaker 2: Several reporters who cover Israel reported that relatives of captives

2316
02:10:37,680 --> 02:10:41,000
Speaker 2: were arrested for wearing shirts calling for a deal that

2317
02:10:41,040 --> 02:10:44,640
Speaker 2: would bring the remaining captives home, an effort that critics

2318
02:10:44,680 --> 02:10:47,680
Speaker 2: of the Nyahu have accused him of working to sabotage.

2319
02:10:48,360 --> 02:10:51,440
Speaker 2: So you have his own people criticizing him and accusing

2320
02:10:51,520 --> 02:10:55,560
Speaker 2: him of lying. I'm getting heated. Okay, let's take our

2321
02:10:55,600 --> 02:10:57,320
Speaker 2: second break and we'll be right back.

2322
02:11:06,760 --> 02:11:07,640
Speaker 3: And we're back.

2323
02:11:09,000 --> 02:11:12,440
Speaker 2: So Republican House leader Mike Johnson had previously warned that

2324
02:11:12,600 --> 02:11:17,000
Speaker 2: anyone who attempted to disrupt Naenyaho's speech could face arrest.

2325
02:11:17,920 --> 02:11:21,680
Speaker 2: Jacob McGee, a correspondent with the Times of Israel, reported

2326
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:25,440
Speaker 2: that several relatives of captives held in Gaza, walked out

2327
02:11:25,440 --> 02:11:28,520
Speaker 2: of nan Yahoo's speech. In a social media post, he

2328
02:11:28,640 --> 02:11:31,880
Speaker 2: said several relatives of the hostages being held in Gaza

2329
02:11:32,040 --> 02:11:35,080
Speaker 2: have walked out of nan Yaho's address to Congress. The

2330
02:11:35,160 --> 02:11:37,800
Speaker 2: PM goes on to pledge not to rest until the

2331
02:11:37,880 --> 02:11:40,960
Speaker 2: hostages are home, leading the vast majority in the room

2332
02:11:41,160 --> 02:11:44,280
Speaker 2: to stand and applaud, save for roughly a dozen or

2333
02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:49,640
Speaker 2: so hostage families. Israeli opposition leader air Lapede bashed nan

2334
02:11:49,720 --> 02:11:52,600
Speaker 2: Yaho's speech in a social media post, saying that the

2335
02:11:52,720 --> 02:11:56,480
Speaker 2: Israeli leader went through his speech without endorsing the deal

2336
02:11:56,640 --> 02:11:59,880
Speaker 2: to bring the remaining captives home on x He called

2337
02:12:00,160 --> 02:12:05,160
Speaker 2: speech a disgrace and to use an exclamation point for emphasis, disgrace,

2338
02:12:06,000 --> 02:12:09,360
Speaker 2: that's how it read. Nanna, who also said that a

2339
02:12:09,440 --> 02:12:13,560
Speaker 2: regional alliance must be forged to counter the influence of Iran,

2340
02:12:13,960 --> 02:12:16,560
Speaker 2: and he thanked Biden for his efforts to that effect

2341
02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:19,520
Speaker 2: and for calling for an extension of the so called

2342
02:12:19,560 --> 02:12:23,960
Speaker 2: Abraham Accords. The Abraham Accords were signed on September fifteenth,

2343
02:12:24,040 --> 02:12:27,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, during Trump's presidency, and it's something that Trump,

2344
02:12:27,760 --> 02:12:30,880
Speaker 2: of course often takes credit for. The accords in brief,

2345
02:12:31,080 --> 02:12:34,960
Speaker 2: normalized diplomatic relations between Israel and the UAE as well

2346
02:12:35,000 --> 02:12:38,640
Speaker 2: as Bahrain, and then later a renewal in ties with Morocco.

2347
02:12:39,520 --> 02:12:42,200
Speaker 2: So as part of the two agreements, both the UAE

2348
02:12:42,360 --> 02:12:47,160
Speaker 2: and Bahrain recognized Israel's sovereignty, enabling the establishment of full

2349
02:12:47,480 --> 02:12:52,480
Speaker 2: diplomatic relations. During his speech, n'annah who said, I have

2350
02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:55,360
Speaker 2: a name for this new alliance. I think we should

2351
02:12:55,440 --> 02:12:59,320
Speaker 2: call it the Abraham Alliance. And then he also thanked Trump,

2352
02:12:59,400 --> 02:13:03,520
Speaker 2: of course for Trump's efforts promoting normalization efforts between Israel

2353
02:13:03,600 --> 02:13:07,240
Speaker 2: and other countries in the region. And as I mentioned,

2354
02:13:07,400 --> 02:13:10,360
Speaker 2: his speech was filled with nothing but lies. Some that

2355
02:13:10,400 --> 02:13:14,400
Speaker 2: I've already mentioned, here are some more highlights. Nn Yaho

2356
02:13:14,480 --> 02:13:18,280
Speaker 2: said the majority of Americans support Israeli actions, but polling

2357
02:13:18,400 --> 02:13:22,600
Speaker 2: says otherwise. He said, quote, the vast majority of Americans

2358
02:13:22,680 --> 02:13:26,520
Speaker 2: have not fallen for this Hamas propaganda. They continue to

2359
02:13:26,560 --> 02:13:30,280
Speaker 2: support Israel. But a recent Gallup poll showed that forty

2360
02:13:30,360 --> 02:13:34,200
Speaker 2: eight percent of people in the US disapprove of Israel's

2361
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:37,560
Speaker 2: actions in Gaza, compared to the forty two percent who

2362
02:13:37,640 --> 02:13:41,280
Speaker 2: are supportive. A May poll by Data for Progress also

2363
02:13:41,440 --> 02:13:45,200
Speaker 2: found that about seventy percent of all voters support a

2364
02:13:45,320 --> 02:13:50,400
Speaker 2: permanent ceasefire in Gaza, which Natnyahu has firmly rejected time

2365
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:55,640
Speaker 2: and time again. And many things men Yaho said made

2366
02:13:55,760 --> 02:13:58,400
Speaker 2: me pray that I would get an aneurism. And one

2367
02:13:58,440 --> 02:14:01,280
Speaker 2: of those things is when he said that Israel is

2368
02:14:01,360 --> 02:14:09,400
Speaker 2: going quote beyond what international law requires to avoid civilian casualties. Meanwhile,

2369
02:14:09,560 --> 02:14:13,360
Speaker 2: of course, numerous rights groups have said Israel is flaunting

2370
02:14:13,440 --> 02:14:17,480
Speaker 2: international law and targeting civilians in Gaza, where it has

2371
02:14:17,560 --> 02:14:22,000
Speaker 2: systematically cut off supplies of food and water, displacing more

2372
02:14:22,040 --> 02:14:25,560
Speaker 2: than ninety percent of the population and wiping out entire

2373
02:14:25,680 --> 02:14:30,080
Speaker 2: neighborhoods and generations of families. And then you have media

2374
02:14:30,120 --> 02:14:34,240
Speaker 2: outlets reporting that the Israeli forces in Gaza see large

2375
02:14:34,280 --> 02:14:38,320
Speaker 2: swaths of the strip as quote free fire zones. And

2376
02:14:38,400 --> 02:14:41,080
Speaker 2: then there was a US doctor who volunteered in Gaza

2377
02:14:41,400 --> 02:14:44,760
Speaker 2: who recently spoke to a reporter and he accused Israeli

2378
02:14:44,800 --> 02:14:48,840
Speaker 2: snipers of targeting Palestinian children. He said, the children are

2379
02:14:48,880 --> 02:14:51,920
Speaker 2: being shot right in the heart and in the head,

2380
02:14:52,640 --> 02:14:55,560
Speaker 2: so much so that a stethoscope was unable to go

2381
02:14:55,680 --> 02:14:59,200
Speaker 2: over their heart. That's how precise these shots were. I'm

2382
02:14:59,240 --> 02:15:03,200
Speaker 2: talking about Doc Mark pearl Mutter about his medical mission

2383
02:15:03,360 --> 02:15:05,320
Speaker 2: in Gaza, and I want to play a clip of

2384
02:15:05,400 --> 02:15:07,520
Speaker 2: him here because I think what he has to say

2385
02:15:07,920 --> 02:15:09,840
Speaker 2: is very important and needs to be heard.

2386
02:15:10,680 --> 02:15:14,160
Speaker 9: All the disaster zones you've seen, how does Gaza compare?

2387
02:15:14,800 --> 02:15:20,720
Speaker 9: All of this disasters I've seen combined, combined, forty mission trips,

2388
02:15:20,800 --> 02:15:27,560
Speaker 9: thirty years, ground zero, earthquakes, all of that combined doesn't

2389
02:15:27,680 --> 02:15:33,720
Speaker 9: equal the level of carnage that I saw against civilians.

2390
02:15:33,600 --> 02:15:35,240
Speaker 3: In just my first week in Gaza.

2391
02:15:35,800 --> 02:15:40,640
Speaker 9: And when you say civilians, is it mostly children? Almost

2392
02:15:40,720 --> 02:15:46,280
Speaker 9: exclusively children. I've never seen that before, never seen that.

2393
02:15:46,560 --> 02:15:50,320
Speaker 9: I've seen more incinerated children than I've ever seen in

2394
02:15:50,400 --> 02:15:54,040
Speaker 9: my entire life combined. I've seen more shredded children in

2395
02:15:54,520 --> 02:15:57,480
Speaker 9: just the first week. Shredded, shredded what do you mean?

2396
02:15:57,640 --> 02:15:58,720
Speaker 3: Missing body parts?

2397
02:15:59,080 --> 02:16:02,920
Speaker 9: Being crushed by billings the greatest majority, or bomb explosions

2398
02:16:03,200 --> 02:16:06,280
Speaker 9: the next greatest majority. We've taken shrapnel as big as

2399
02:16:06,320 --> 02:16:09,520
Speaker 9: my thumb out of eight year olds. And then they're

2400
02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:12,960
Speaker 9: sniper bullets. I have children that were shot twice. Wait,

2401
02:16:13,320 --> 02:16:15,720
Speaker 9: you're saying that children and Gaza are being shot by

2402
02:16:16,000 --> 02:16:19,960
Speaker 9: snipers definitively. I have two children that I have photographs

2403
02:16:20,040 --> 02:16:22,720
Speaker 9: of that were shot so perfectly in the chest. I

2404
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:25,920
Speaker 9: couldn't put my stethoscope over their heart more accurately and

2405
02:16:26,360 --> 02:16:29,400
Speaker 9: directly on the side of the head in the same child,

2406
02:16:29,640 --> 02:16:33,360
Speaker 9: No toddler gets shot twice by mistake by the world's

2407
02:16:33,400 --> 02:16:36,039
Speaker 9: best sniper and they're dead center shots.

2408
02:16:36,920 --> 02:16:42,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's that. And again n Yahoo slammed college

2409
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:47,120
Speaker 2: protesters and administrators in his speech, leaning into the attacks

2410
02:16:47,160 --> 02:16:51,000
Speaker 2: on student protesters who demonstrate against Israel's genocide and Gaza.

2411
02:16:51,520 --> 02:16:54,960
Speaker 2: He blasted college administrators who resistant calls to crack down

2412
02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:58,680
Speaker 2: on the protests. He also mocked queer activists who support

2413
02:16:58,800 --> 02:17:02,720
Speaker 2: Palistinian rights and accuse them of ignorance, comparing them to

2414
02:17:02,920 --> 02:17:07,040
Speaker 2: chickens who support the restaurant of KFC. And this bit

2415
02:17:07,280 --> 02:17:09,760
Speaker 2: might have been my favorite quote, just because the level

2416
02:17:09,800 --> 02:17:14,279
Speaker 2: of stupidity reached a level I didn't know what was possible. Quote,

2417
02:17:14,800 --> 02:17:19,160
Speaker 2: these protesters hold up signs saying gaze for Gaza, they

2418
02:17:19,240 --> 02:17:22,760
Speaker 2: might as well hold up signs that say chickens for KFC.

2419
02:17:23,760 --> 02:17:27,240
Speaker 2: And then, of course, after he said this, nearly every

2420
02:17:27,360 --> 02:17:32,280
Speaker 2: member of Congress stood up and clapped Naen Yahoo, for

2421
02:17:32,440 --> 02:17:35,800
Speaker 2: whom the ICC prosecutors are currently seeking an arrest warrant

2422
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:39,400
Speaker 2: for for his alleged war crimes. Has said that pro

2423
02:17:39,560 --> 02:17:44,800
Speaker 2: Palestinian protesters stand with evil. In his speech, he said

2424
02:17:45,160 --> 02:17:48,959
Speaker 2: they stand with hamas they stand with rapists and murderers,

2425
02:17:49,520 --> 02:17:53,640
Speaker 2: adding that they should be ashamed. He also said quote

2426
02:17:53,959 --> 02:17:58,000
Speaker 2: the outrageous Slanders that paint Israel as racist and genocidal

2427
02:17:58,440 --> 02:18:01,880
Speaker 2: are meant to delegitimize Israel, to demonize the Jewish state,

2428
02:18:02,240 --> 02:18:06,400
Speaker 2: to demonize Jews everywhere, and no wonder, no wonder, we

2429
02:18:06,520 --> 02:18:10,080
Speaker 2: witnessed an appalling rise and anti Semitism in America and

2430
02:18:10,400 --> 02:18:14,400
Speaker 2: around the world. And of course, Dan Yahoo praised Biden

2431
02:18:14,520 --> 02:18:18,600
Speaker 2: for his heartfelt support for Israel in his speech, Dan Yah,

2432
02:18:18,600 --> 02:18:21,959
Speaker 2: who said quote, after the savage attack on October seventh,

2433
02:18:22,400 --> 02:18:26,000
Speaker 2: Biden rightly called hamas sheer evil, and then he played

2434
02:18:26,040 --> 02:18:29,680
Speaker 2: up their more than forty year relationship because they're both

2435
02:18:29,840 --> 02:18:32,600
Speaker 2: fucking old and shouldn't be in power anymore. I guess

2436
02:18:32,640 --> 02:18:35,400
Speaker 2: one of them won't be, he said. Biden dispatched two

2437
02:18:35,560 --> 02:18:38,680
Speaker 2: aircraft carriers to the Middle East to deter a wider war,

2438
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:41,320
Speaker 2: and then he came to Israel to stand with us

2439
02:18:41,400 --> 02:18:44,960
Speaker 2: in our darkest hour, a visit that will never be forgotten.

2440
02:18:45,680 --> 02:18:48,760
Speaker 2: And yet it won't be forgotten because Biden's legacy will

2441
02:18:48,879 --> 02:18:53,120
Speaker 2: forever be his complicity and assistance in the genocide of Palestine.

2442
02:18:53,920 --> 02:18:56,600
Speaker 2: After the speech was concluded, Hamas said that the speech

2443
02:18:56,760 --> 02:18:59,680
Speaker 2: shows n En Yahu's lack of interest in a ceasefire.

2444
02:19:00,400 --> 02:19:05,160
Speaker 2: Hamas senior official Sammy Abuzuhui said that Natanyahu's remarks demonstrate

2445
02:19:05,240 --> 02:19:07,680
Speaker 2: that he is not interested in ending the war, and

2446
02:19:07,800 --> 02:19:11,200
Speaker 2: this is according to the US news outlet Reuters. He

2447
02:19:11,320 --> 02:19:15,200
Speaker 2: said Nahnyahu's speech was full of lies and it will

2448
02:19:15,240 --> 02:19:18,640
Speaker 2: not succeed in covering up for the failure and defeat

2449
02:19:19,080 --> 02:19:21,960
Speaker 2: in the face of the resistance. He added that the

2450
02:19:22,040 --> 02:19:25,120
Speaker 2: address would also not quote cover up for the crimes

2451
02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:28,279
Speaker 2: of the war of genocide his army is committing against

2452
02:19:28,280 --> 02:19:32,480
Speaker 2: the people of Gaza. In a statement, Zat Oldish, a

2453
02:19:32,680 --> 02:19:36,320
Speaker 2: member of the Palestinian Group's political bureau, slammed the speech

2454
02:19:36,520 --> 02:19:40,440
Speaker 2: by the quote unquote criminal Naanyahu as a party of lies.

2455
02:19:41,440 --> 02:19:44,280
Speaker 2: At that Yusef, a thirty two year old Palestinian American,

2456
02:19:44,640 --> 02:19:47,120
Speaker 2: told Al Jazeera that she traveled to Washington, d C.

2457
02:19:47,320 --> 02:19:50,600
Speaker 2: From New York to voice her concerns by Nanyahu's address

2458
02:19:50,640 --> 02:19:53,520
Speaker 2: to Congress, and she called the Prime minister, a quote

2459
02:19:53,640 --> 02:19:57,400
Speaker 2: war criminal who should stand trial. Yes he should, that's

2460
02:19:57,480 --> 02:20:01,960
Speaker 2: what international quote wants, she said, quote. We are just

2461
02:20:02,080 --> 02:20:05,720
Speaker 2: here to cause a disruption, shut it down, and say

2462
02:20:06,120 --> 02:20:09,680
Speaker 2: not in our names, not with our consent. She called

2463
02:20:09,680 --> 02:20:12,279
Speaker 2: the N Yahoo's invite to Congress disgusting.

2464
02:20:12,840 --> 02:20:14,000
Speaker 3: Yes, yes it was.

2465
02:20:15,200 --> 02:20:17,640
Speaker 2: She said, I don't get how people get to a

2466
02:20:17,800 --> 02:20:21,360
Speaker 2: level where they detach themselves so much from their humanity

2467
02:20:21,720 --> 02:20:24,760
Speaker 2: that they can't see what's been happening in Gaza. She

2468
02:20:24,879 --> 02:20:29,800
Speaker 2: also expressed surprise that US lawmakers still continue to entertain

2469
02:20:29,840 --> 02:20:32,959
Speaker 2: the N Yahoo and invite him here. And I'm really

2470
02:20:33,040 --> 02:20:36,320
Speaker 2: hoping this next part is true, because while Naanyahu's speech

2471
02:20:36,520 --> 02:20:40,320
Speaker 2: sought to shore up support for Israel, El Jazeera correspondent

2472
02:20:40,480 --> 02:20:43,920
Speaker 2: rosalind Jordan reported that it is unlikely to alter the

2473
02:20:43,959 --> 02:20:46,920
Speaker 2: political landscape in the US, where the opposition to the

2474
02:20:47,000 --> 02:20:50,359
Speaker 2: war in Gaza slash the genocide in Gaza is widespread.

2475
02:20:51,200 --> 02:20:54,680
Speaker 2: She said, it's not going to change the political reality

2476
02:20:54,760 --> 02:20:57,720
Speaker 2: here in the United States. There are many millions of

2477
02:20:57,800 --> 02:21:00,320
Speaker 2: people who are disgusted by what they see how happening

2478
02:21:00,440 --> 02:21:03,520
Speaker 2: in the war in Gaza. They see the mounting death

2479
02:21:03,600 --> 02:21:07,400
Speaker 2: toll nearing forty thousand, men, women, and children, and many

2480
02:21:07,560 --> 02:21:13,240
Speaker 2: thousands more injured, the entire population essentially homeless inside Gaza.

2481
02:21:14,680 --> 02:21:17,840
Speaker 2: She also added that schisms have emerged within the Democratic

2482
02:21:17,920 --> 02:21:22,320
Speaker 2: Party over support for Israel, while the Republican Party remains

2483
02:21:22,480 --> 02:21:27,480
Speaker 2: largely united around calls for continued and even increased support.

2484
02:21:29,160 --> 02:21:32,800
Speaker 2: My good friend and yours, Robert Evans said about Nanyahu's

2485
02:21:32,800 --> 02:21:36,280
Speaker 2: speech at Congress, this is both the most resistance to

2486
02:21:36,400 --> 02:21:39,240
Speaker 2: Israel I have seen from US political leadership and the

2487
02:21:39,360 --> 02:21:41,520
Speaker 2: most public embrace of Israel I have seen.

2488
02:21:42,640 --> 02:21:43,240
Speaker 3: And He's right.

2489
02:21:43,840 --> 02:21:47,040
Speaker 2: It's disturbing and baffling behavior that is so divided it

2490
02:21:47,120 --> 02:21:51,920
Speaker 2: seems impossible to bridge. It's hypocritical and frankly, quite dangerous

2491
02:21:52,640 --> 02:21:56,000
Speaker 2: to normalize the support of someone who the Chief prosecutor

2492
02:21:56,080 --> 02:21:59,880
Speaker 2: of the International Criminal Court, Kadim Khan, announced that he

2493
02:22:00,120 --> 02:22:02,840
Speaker 2: was seeking an a rest war for to allow this

2494
02:22:03,160 --> 02:22:08,200
Speaker 2: man to address Congress in any way is dangerous. The

2495
02:22:08,320 --> 02:22:13,000
Speaker 2: Center for Constitutional Rights has also urged the Justice Department

2496
02:22:13,160 --> 02:22:17,480
Speaker 2: to investigate an n Yahoo for genocide, war crimes, and torture,

2497
02:22:17,920 --> 02:22:23,040
Speaker 2: which have all been well documented and plentiful. But that

2498
02:22:23,160 --> 02:22:27,520
Speaker 2: doesn't matter though, because then Yahoo still gave his ridiculous

2499
02:22:27,520 --> 02:22:32,840
Speaker 2: speech and bombs are still raining down on Gaza. And

2500
02:22:32,959 --> 02:22:36,960
Speaker 2: with that we have concluded this two part series about

2501
02:22:37,120 --> 02:22:42,000
Speaker 2: why Biden's legacy will forever be genocide. Until next time,

2502
02:22:42,520 --> 02:22:45,600
Speaker 2: please continue to talk about Palestine and what's happening there.

2503
02:22:46,080 --> 02:22:47,880
Speaker 3: And the Palestine.

2504
02:23:01,480 --> 02:23:06,720
Speaker 8: Grinder. I hardly this is it could happen here where today?

2505
02:23:06,840 --> 02:23:10,400
Speaker 8: The it is gay flirting and or harassment, and the

2506
02:23:10,560 --> 02:23:14,800
Speaker 8: here is Milwaukee, Wisconsin, during the twenty twenty four Republican

2507
02:23:15,040 --> 02:23:19,320
Speaker 8: National Convention. I'm gay also known by my undercover alias

2508
02:23:19,440 --> 02:23:24,240
Speaker 8: Garrison Davis, and I was lucky enough to be one

2509
02:23:24,320 --> 02:23:28,200
Speaker 8: of our on the ground RNZ correspondence. A few weeks ago.

2510
02:23:28,280 --> 02:23:32,080
Speaker 8: We provided daily coverage of the GOP Coronation festival based

2511
02:23:32,120 --> 02:23:35,760
Speaker 8: on our conversations with delegates, lobbyists, and think tank ghoules,

2512
02:23:36,200 --> 02:23:39,240
Speaker 8: and reported on the general trends in rhetoric used by

2513
02:23:39,320 --> 02:23:42,360
Speaker 8: popular speakers at the event. We'll have some more in

2514
02:23:42,480 --> 02:23:44,720
Speaker 8: depth episodes about those topics in the weeks to come,

2515
02:23:45,080 --> 02:23:47,880
Speaker 8: using more of our recorded interviews we collected at the convention.

2516
02:23:48,560 --> 02:23:51,520
Speaker 8: But on top of our regular coverage, I also had

2517
02:23:51,640 --> 02:23:54,600
Speaker 8: a special assignment that I'm more or less assigned to

2518
02:23:54,680 --> 02:23:58,600
Speaker 8: myself on this show. We often talk about right wing

2519
02:23:58,680 --> 02:24:02,120
Speaker 8: extremism and issue facing gay and trans people, including the

2520
02:24:02,200 --> 02:24:05,240
Speaker 8: various ways conservatives and Christian nationalists are trying to make

2521
02:24:05,320 --> 02:24:08,840
Speaker 8: life harder for queer people, whether through legislation, online harassment,

2522
02:24:09,200 --> 02:24:12,760
Speaker 8: and physical violence. As these are two of our most

2523
02:24:12,800 --> 02:24:16,800
Speaker 8: frequently covered topics, being at the Republican National Convention provided

2524
02:24:16,840 --> 02:24:21,279
Speaker 8: me with the perfect opportunity to investigate the intersection between

2525
02:24:21,400 --> 02:24:27,160
Speaker 8: conservatism and homosexuality. For years, I've heard rumors and urban

2526
02:24:27,280 --> 02:24:31,400
Speaker 8: legends about a massive influx of Republicans flocking to the

2527
02:24:31,520 --> 02:24:35,160
Speaker 8: gay hookup app Grinder to get laid during the RNC.

2528
02:24:36,040 --> 02:24:39,119
Speaker 8: Whether they be twenty year old Republican twinks from Miami

2529
02:24:39,680 --> 02:24:42,480
Speaker 8: or fifty three year old self hating, closeted gay men

2530
02:24:42,560 --> 02:24:47,800
Speaker 8: from Idaho trapped in loveless marriages, Curiosity has often gotten

2531
02:24:47,879 --> 02:24:50,760
Speaker 8: the better of me, and I needed to know how

2532
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:55,879
Speaker 8: many homosexual Republicans were actually logging onto Grinder. In case

2533
02:24:55,920 --> 02:24:59,360
Speaker 8: you're unfamiliar, Grinder is technically a dating app that serves

2534
02:24:59,400 --> 02:25:03,800
Speaker 8: the LGB community, but in actuality, it is a mediocre

2535
02:25:03,879 --> 02:25:06,160
Speaker 8: hookup app that mostly serves as a way for strangers

2536
02:25:06,200 --> 02:25:10,199
Speaker 8: in their forties to completely unprompted send you unflattering pictures

2537
02:25:10,240 --> 02:25:13,240
Speaker 8: of their penis. Grinder was launched in two thousand and

2538
02:25:13,320 --> 02:25:16,480
Speaker 8: nine and is arguably the largest and most popular gay

2539
02:25:16,560 --> 02:25:20,240
Speaker 8: dating app, especially among men. Grinder has only been around

2540
02:25:20,400 --> 02:25:23,800
Speaker 8: for two in person RNCs prior to this point, twenty

2541
02:25:23,840 --> 02:25:27,520
Speaker 8: twelve and twenty sixteen, since all convention activities moved online

2542
02:25:27,600 --> 02:25:31,040
Speaker 8: during twenty twenty for the pandemic. So this July, for

2543
02:25:31,160 --> 02:25:34,879
Speaker 8: the first time in eight years, Republicans from all around

2544
02:25:34,920 --> 02:25:37,600
Speaker 8: the country could gather in one city and once their

2545
02:25:37,640 --> 02:25:41,480
Speaker 8: wives fell asleep, log on to Grinder and this episode,

2546
02:25:41,560 --> 02:25:45,280
Speaker 8: I'm going to tell you about my RNC Grinder experience.

2547
02:25:47,200 --> 02:25:49,160
Speaker 8: Before traveling to the city that was about to be

2548
02:25:49,240 --> 02:25:51,520
Speaker 8: invaded by all of the weirdest Republicans in the country,

2549
02:25:52,160 --> 02:25:55,320
Speaker 8: I needed to do some prep to help ensure safety

2550
02:25:55,360 --> 02:25:59,119
Speaker 8: and success in my investigative endeavor. I hope you queers

2551
02:25:59,200 --> 02:26:03,040
Speaker 8: liked that terrible place. Based on the massive increase in

2552
02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:06,640
Speaker 8: violent anti trans rhetoric coming from the GOP, I already

2553
02:26:06,680 --> 02:26:08,400
Speaker 8: knew that I would be dusting off my old boy

2554
02:26:08,480 --> 02:26:12,840
Speaker 8: motor skills and going undercover as a cisgender male. Although

2555
02:26:12,879 --> 02:26:15,640
Speaker 8: my ability to pass as a straight mail is debatable,

2556
02:26:15,920 --> 02:26:19,200
Speaker 8: I can at least easily pass as a not quite

2557
02:26:19,480 --> 02:26:23,440
Speaker 8: straight male. My trans feminine fashion taste has been skewing

2558
02:26:23,480 --> 02:26:26,240
Speaker 8: more mask lesbian in recent years, so clothing wasn't really

2559
02:26:26,240 --> 02:26:29,360
Speaker 8: an issue. I packed up basically all my button up

2560
02:26:29,400 --> 02:26:32,440
Speaker 8: collar shirts, three ties, two black suits, and a beige

2561
02:26:32,520 --> 02:26:35,720
Speaker 8: London fog trench coat. Basically, the vibe I was going

2562
02:26:35,800 --> 02:26:40,000
Speaker 8: for was half young Republican, half Roman towel boy dressed

2563
02:26:40,040 --> 02:26:43,040
Speaker 8: as a nineteen fifties FBI agent. I refer to this

2564
02:26:43,240 --> 02:26:46,800
Speaker 8: as Dale Cooper Moting. I was unwilling to cut my

2565
02:26:46,879 --> 02:26:49,800
Speaker 8: hair to match most of the young Republican frat boys,

2566
02:26:50,320 --> 02:26:53,400
Speaker 8: so I settled on styling my wavy blonde locks like

2567
02:26:53,560 --> 02:26:57,600
Speaker 8: Baron Trump meets Total Swinton. In Constantine, I was kind

2568
02:26:57,640 --> 02:27:01,080
Speaker 8: of Gabriel maxing for most of the convention, and though

2569
02:27:01,160 --> 02:27:04,800
Speaker 8: most attendees were unable to pick up on my diikish undertones,

2570
02:27:05,320 --> 02:27:07,520
Speaker 8: the one day I wasn't wearing a tie, I did

2571
02:27:07,600 --> 02:27:10,080
Speaker 8: get she heard by the Secret Service when entering the

2572
02:27:10,160 --> 02:27:14,600
Speaker 8: convention through a security checkpoint. They're going woke, So that

2573
02:27:14,760 --> 02:27:17,959
Speaker 8: was my general look for the convention. I also completely

2574
02:27:18,040 --> 02:27:21,920
Speaker 8: remade my grinder profile for the RNZ for Simplicity's sake,

2575
02:27:21,920 --> 02:27:24,560
Speaker 8: I got to emphasize my twinkish past and removed the

2576
02:27:24,640 --> 02:27:29,760
Speaker 8: explicitly non binary transgender aspects of my profile, replacing some

2577
02:27:29,879 --> 02:27:33,240
Speaker 8: of my more trans coded photos with pictures of my

2578
02:27:33,400 --> 02:27:37,800
Speaker 8: light Yagami and Dale Cooper cosplay. Perhaps next rn C

2579
02:27:38,000 --> 02:27:40,920
Speaker 8: I can experiment with discovering how many of the RNC

2580
02:27:40,959 --> 02:27:43,920
Speaker 8: attendees are chasers. But for safety's at sake, I went

2581
02:27:43,959 --> 02:27:47,440
Speaker 8: to more stealth, both online and in person at RNZ

2582
02:27:47,640 --> 02:27:51,240
Speaker 8: related events. For my main profile picture, I chose a

2583
02:27:51,280 --> 02:27:54,320
Speaker 8: pretty basic photo of me with disheveled hair, wearing a

2584
02:27:54,400 --> 02:27:58,320
Speaker 8: light gray shirt and thin black tie, looking just frankly exhausted.

2585
02:27:59,120 --> 02:28:03,200
Speaker 8: I chose the yet elegant user name Twink, and for

2586
02:28:03,320 --> 02:28:07,959
Speaker 8: my bio wrote gen z in town for convention, which

2587
02:28:08,040 --> 02:28:10,960
Speaker 8: I thought was pretty funny and signals to people that yes,

2588
02:28:11,040 --> 02:28:14,039
Speaker 8: I am here for the RNC, but leaves the exact

2589
02:28:14,160 --> 02:28:18,920
Speaker 8: reason why still a bit mysterious. So this was my bait.

2590
02:28:19,840 --> 02:28:22,320
Speaker 8: On my way to the airport, I was already dressed

2591
02:28:22,360 --> 02:28:24,840
Speaker 8: for the part, as I suspected the flight from Atlanta

2592
02:28:24,920 --> 02:28:28,680
Speaker 8: to Milwaukee would be part of the whole RNC experience.

2593
02:28:29,520 --> 02:28:32,879
Speaker 8: I arrived at the gate and the vibe shift was immediate.

2594
02:28:33,520 --> 02:28:36,880
Speaker 8: Older white men with even whiter hair, wearing a mix

2595
02:28:36,959 --> 02:28:40,320
Speaker 8: of poorly tailored suits and country club polo shirts fit

2596
02:28:40,480 --> 02:28:43,680
Speaker 8: for the driving range. They all kind of looked like

2597
02:28:43,800 --> 02:28:47,879
Speaker 8: my Republican grandfather. The women, meanwhile, regardless of age, were

2598
02:28:47,959 --> 02:28:51,160
Speaker 8: all cause playing their favorite female Fox and News anchor

2599
02:28:51,280 --> 02:28:55,160
Speaker 8: with bleached blonde hair. There were a handful of delegates

2600
02:28:55,200 --> 02:28:58,520
Speaker 8: as well as Republican super fans wearing Trump buttons and

2601
02:28:58,640 --> 02:29:01,840
Speaker 8: mega hats, just really excited to be going to the convention,

2602
02:29:02,360 --> 02:29:04,120
Speaker 8: the way a nerd would be excited to go to

2603
02:29:04,200 --> 02:29:07,840
Speaker 8: San Diego Comic Con. Others at the gate were more subdued,

2604
02:29:08,040 --> 02:29:10,800
Speaker 8: perhaps not wanting to attract too much attention in the

2605
02:29:10,879 --> 02:29:14,280
Speaker 8: Atlanta airport, but I could still overhear them getting into

2606
02:29:14,440 --> 02:29:18,520
Speaker 8: quiet small talk about their RNC expectations and in hushed

2607
02:29:18,640 --> 02:29:21,760
Speaker 8: tones asking others at the gate if they were going

2608
02:29:21,879 --> 02:29:25,800
Speaker 8: to the convention. And that's what everyone called it, not

2609
02:29:25,920 --> 02:29:29,280
Speaker 8: the Republican Convention, not the GOP convention or the RNC

2610
02:29:30,200 --> 02:29:34,119
Speaker 8: the convention. As I was bording the plane, an older

2611
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:37,160
Speaker 8: woman with straw like blonde hair sitting a few rows

2612
02:29:37,200 --> 02:29:40,240
Speaker 8: in front of me waves me and asked, young man,

2613
02:29:40,600 --> 02:29:45,240
Speaker 8: are you going to the convention. I gave my best yes, ma'am,

2614
02:29:45,720 --> 02:29:47,880
Speaker 8: took my seat, and then heard her remark to her

2615
02:29:47,920 --> 02:29:51,199
Speaker 8: friend about how happy she was that more young people

2616
02:29:51,280 --> 02:29:54,360
Speaker 8: are attending the convention, and I would suspect she would

2617
02:29:54,360 --> 02:29:57,360
Speaker 8: be quite disappointed to learn why I was attending the

2618
02:29:57,440 --> 02:30:00,800
Speaker 8: convention and what I was doing there, mainly trying to

2619
02:30:00,800 --> 02:30:05,400
Speaker 8: collect as much information about these weird RNC Grinder Republicans

2620
02:30:05,480 --> 02:30:08,200
Speaker 8: as I can. And you will hear more about those

2621
02:30:08,280 --> 02:30:12,480
Speaker 8: weird Grinder RNC Republicans after the break. This episode is

2622
02:30:12,520 --> 02:30:15,560
Speaker 8: brought to you in part by the top Gun soundtrack,

2623
02:30:15,920 --> 02:30:17,640
Speaker 8: which I was listening to as I was coming out

2624
02:30:17,680 --> 02:30:20,920
Speaker 8: from adderall while writing the second half of this episode,

2625
02:30:21,320 --> 02:30:34,920
Speaker 8: as well as these products and sponsors. Okay, back to

2626
02:30:35,080 --> 02:30:40,840
Speaker 8: the Grind. Most convention activities took place in the Peiser Forum,

2627
02:30:41,000 --> 02:30:43,400
Speaker 8: which it took about four days to learn how to pronounce.

2628
02:30:44,320 --> 02:30:47,240
Speaker 8: This venue is usually home to the NBA team, the

2629
02:30:47,320 --> 02:30:50,160
Speaker 8: Milwaukee Bucks, and this is where I would do most

2630
02:30:50,240 --> 02:30:53,240
Speaker 8: of my grinder cruising so I could see other profiles

2631
02:30:53,280 --> 02:30:56,520
Speaker 8: within the radius of the convention area. Every time I

2632
02:30:56,640 --> 02:30:59,160
Speaker 8: walked into the Pfeiser Forum, which was multiple times a

2633
02:30:59,240 --> 02:31:01,480
Speaker 8: day for four days in a row, I would find

2634
02:31:01,520 --> 02:31:03,760
Speaker 8: a little corner or a place to sit and discreetly

2635
02:31:03,800 --> 02:31:05,960
Speaker 8: boot up Grinder and refresh my feed to see what

2636
02:31:06,080 --> 02:31:10,320
Speaker 8: profiles were in my proximity. Now, if you're unfamiliar with Grinder,

2637
02:31:10,680 --> 02:31:15,840
Speaker 8: one of its more terrifying features is the proximity detector,

2638
02:31:16,280 --> 02:31:18,800
Speaker 8: telling you what users are near you, whether that be

2639
02:31:19,400 --> 02:31:23,280
Speaker 8: five miles away or five feet away. Every night, when

2640
02:31:23,280 --> 02:31:25,920
Speaker 8: I got back to the hotel after recording with Robert

2641
02:31:25,959 --> 02:31:28,560
Speaker 8: and Sophie, I would once again check a Grinder to

2642
02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:31,000
Speaker 8: see if any unlucky delegates were put up in the

2643
02:31:31,080 --> 02:31:34,240
Speaker 8: hotels by the airport. The hotel we were staying at

2644
02:31:34,400 --> 02:31:37,560
Speaker 8: was also home to the Idaho and North Dakota delegates,

2645
02:31:37,959 --> 02:31:40,680
Speaker 8: and though I don't believe anyone from our hotel was

2646
02:31:40,760 --> 02:31:44,039
Speaker 8: on Grinder, save for maybe an anonymous profile or two,

2647
02:31:44,640 --> 02:31:47,640
Speaker 8: there definitely were RNC attendees at some of the nearby

2648
02:31:47,720 --> 02:31:51,840
Speaker 8: hotels roughly fifteen hundred feet away from my bed. The

2649
02:31:51,920 --> 02:31:55,080
Speaker 8: Grinder proximity detector was quite useful to me and locating

2650
02:31:55,120 --> 02:31:57,520
Speaker 8: profiles active around the footprint of the R and C,

2651
02:31:58,040 --> 02:32:00,760
Speaker 8: as well as when sorting through all my messages back

2652
02:32:00,800 --> 02:32:04,080
Speaker 8: home to confirm who attended the RNC from out of state.

2653
02:32:04,680 --> 02:32:07,760
Speaker 8: Because Milwaukee is about six hundred and fifty miles away

2654
02:32:07,760 --> 02:32:11,600
Speaker 8: from Atlanta. If someone's distance marker was substantially different from that,

2655
02:32:11,720 --> 02:32:13,680
Speaker 8: I could assume that they were in Milwaukee for the

2656
02:32:13,879 --> 02:32:15,920
Speaker 8: rn C from out of state, even if I wasn't

2657
02:32:15,920 --> 02:32:19,640
Speaker 8: able to confirm through any brief text exchange. I've also

2658
02:32:19,720 --> 02:32:21,960
Speaker 8: done my best to follow up with certain profiles to

2659
02:32:22,080 --> 02:32:26,000
Speaker 8: rule out possibilities of secondary traveling or other random reasons

2660
02:32:26,040 --> 02:32:28,760
Speaker 8: for why their distance markers might not line up exactly.

2661
02:32:29,080 --> 02:32:32,640
Speaker 8: And I think they have it narrowed down pretty well. Okay,

2662
02:32:32,680 --> 02:32:35,000
Speaker 8: you've been very patient, and now I think it's time

2663
02:32:35,240 --> 02:32:39,000
Speaker 8: to read through the highlights from my grinder in box.

2664
02:32:39,480 --> 02:32:41,600
Speaker 8: And I gotta say I think I started off pretty strong.

2665
02:32:42,080 --> 02:32:45,280
Speaker 8: While attending the RNC kickoff party the night before the

2666
02:32:45,360 --> 02:32:48,160
Speaker 8: convention officially started, I got one of the very first

2667
02:32:48,160 --> 02:32:51,480
Speaker 8: messages I received from a twenty one year old Republican

2668
02:32:51,600 --> 02:32:54,199
Speaker 8: with the profile picture that's just a close up picture

2669
02:32:54,720 --> 02:32:57,960
Speaker 8: of a dark suit with a dark blue shirt and

2670
02:32:58,120 --> 02:33:01,920
Speaker 8: vegenta tie. Already frendous vibes. He asked me if I

2671
02:33:02,000 --> 02:33:05,960
Speaker 8: was quote unquote with the GOP, and I said, I

2672
02:33:06,000 --> 02:33:08,760
Speaker 8: was attending with friends, and then I got no further response.

2673
02:33:09,320 --> 02:33:12,000
Speaker 8: I saw this guy online throughout the convention, and then

2674
02:33:12,280 --> 02:33:15,160
Speaker 8: after the convention was over, he moved like three hundred

2675
02:33:15,200 --> 02:33:17,520
Speaker 8: miles away, so I'm pretty sure he was there for

2676
02:33:17,680 --> 02:33:21,280
Speaker 8: the RNC. I got a message from someone who identified

2677
02:33:21,360 --> 02:33:25,520
Speaker 8: himself as a local conservative quote but not a hardcore

2678
02:33:25,640 --> 02:33:29,400
Speaker 8: Republican unquote, and he was excited the convention was in town,

2679
02:33:29,720 --> 02:33:33,680
Speaker 8: hopeful that he would quote meet my future husband unquote.

2680
02:33:34,879 --> 02:33:38,760
Speaker 8: The first chaser I encountered with the bio looking for

2681
02:33:38,959 --> 02:33:42,440
Speaker 8: some lady dick to feel in my ass, saw through

2682
02:33:42,520 --> 02:33:46,680
Speaker 8: my sister gender disguise and messaged me cock question mark.

2683
02:33:47,480 --> 02:33:49,960
Speaker 8: I got one other message from a chaser who was

2684
02:33:50,040 --> 02:33:52,400
Speaker 8: pretending to be Tea for Tea, who asked me if

2685
02:33:52,440 --> 02:33:56,039
Speaker 8: I was in town for Kitsu Khan, an anime convention

2686
02:33:56,160 --> 02:33:59,840
Speaker 8: in Green Bay. A nice local messaged me, quote hope

2687
02:33:59,879 --> 02:34:03,200
Speaker 8: you're finding what you're looking for smiley face, which was

2688
02:34:03,360 --> 02:34:05,879
Speaker 8: very nice and just kind of amusing if you consider

2689
02:34:05,959 --> 02:34:08,640
Speaker 8: that he thought I was just a gay Republican looking

2690
02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:12,600
Speaker 8: for some other gay Republican. Another local with the name

2691
02:34:13,000 --> 02:34:17,000
Speaker 8: Older for Young sent me the message quote boomer who

2692
02:34:17,000 --> 02:34:19,959
Speaker 8: will talk politics with you or we can just fuck.

2693
02:34:21,280 --> 02:34:25,040
Speaker 8: I asked him if the quote unquote talk politics pickup

2694
02:34:25,120 --> 02:34:29,160
Speaker 8: line works very often, and he replied, quote less often

2695
02:34:29,360 --> 02:34:33,840
Speaker 8: than I would hope for on here zero unquote. He

2696
02:34:33,959 --> 02:34:36,960
Speaker 8: mentioned that he had noticed some convention attendees on the

2697
02:34:37,000 --> 02:34:41,040
Speaker 8: app telling me that they have infiltrated grinder. He then

2698
02:34:41,080 --> 02:34:42,960
Speaker 8: asked me what exact hotel I was staying at. So

2699
02:34:43,080 --> 02:34:46,080
Speaker 8: that was the end of that conversation. A minority of

2700
02:34:46,160 --> 02:34:50,360
Speaker 8: the Milwaukee locals who messaged me identified themselves as conservatives

2701
02:34:50,600 --> 02:34:53,520
Speaker 8: and were largely excited that the RNC was in town.

2702
02:34:54,240 --> 02:34:57,080
Speaker 8: They vicariously questioned me about how the convention was going,

2703
02:34:57,280 --> 02:35:01,080
Speaker 8: as most were disappointed that they themselves cannot attend. One

2704
02:35:01,160 --> 02:35:05,519
Speaker 8: such fellaw, who described Trump's first RNC entrance as electric

2705
02:35:05,959 --> 02:35:09,160
Speaker 8: and a very emotional moment for him and the entire

2706
02:35:09,280 --> 02:35:12,760
Speaker 8: crowd unquote, would have liked to attend, but he was

2707
02:35:12,840 --> 02:35:16,279
Speaker 8: busy working at the hospital because they needed quote extra

2708
02:35:16,440 --> 02:35:22,440
Speaker 8: staffing just in case unquote. Now, the worst profile picture

2709
02:35:22,480 --> 02:35:25,720
Speaker 8: I found was an older guy wearing a baseball camp

2710
02:35:25,840 --> 02:35:28,920
Speaker 8: and one of those half faced skull masks like Adam

2711
02:35:28,959 --> 02:35:31,480
Speaker 8: Offfen used to wear. He said he was from Florida

2712
02:35:31,760 --> 02:35:34,080
Speaker 8: and claimed to be in town not for the RNC

2713
02:35:34,600 --> 02:35:38,720
Speaker 8: but to visit family, and mentioned that Vance had completely

2714
02:35:38,840 --> 02:35:42,040
Speaker 8: sold out his morals for the VP spot. This guy's

2715
02:35:42,080 --> 02:35:45,240
Speaker 8: politics were impenetrable. Maybe this was just like your average

2716
02:35:45,640 --> 02:35:50,720
Speaker 8: Florida independent. Very baffling fella. A younger guy messaged me

2717
02:35:51,080 --> 02:35:54,560
Speaker 8: asking you're a Republican and I said not really, putting

2718
02:35:54,560 --> 02:35:56,760
Speaker 8: it lightly, and he never got back to me. I

2719
02:35:56,840 --> 02:35:59,520
Speaker 8: did find a thirty one year old chaser named Greg

2720
02:36:00,000 --> 02:36:02,520
Speaker 8: I do believe with attending the convention, and his bio

2721
02:36:02,720 --> 02:36:08,519
Speaker 8: read quote anon come drain me trans CD as crossdresser

2722
02:36:08,920 --> 02:36:12,840
Speaker 8: sissy fem to the front of the line. I asked,

2723
02:36:13,120 --> 02:36:16,840
Speaker 8: you like trans and he responded yes. We had no

2724
02:36:16,959 --> 02:36:20,280
Speaker 8: further conversation. I did talk with two other people who

2725
02:36:20,280 --> 02:36:22,959
Speaker 8: happened to be covering the convention, including one guy who

2726
02:36:23,000 --> 02:36:25,960
Speaker 8: thought I was with CNN because the Grinder proximity sensor

2727
02:36:26,040 --> 02:36:28,680
Speaker 8: put me near the CNN area when I was actually

2728
02:36:28,920 --> 02:36:33,480
Speaker 8: using Grinder at the Heritage Foundation party. And lastly, really

2729
02:36:33,560 --> 02:36:37,280
Speaker 8: the only guy I saw who openly claims to be

2730
02:36:37,360 --> 02:36:40,879
Speaker 8: attending the RNC in his public bio was a thirty

2731
02:36:40,920 --> 02:36:44,600
Speaker 8: two year old from Shreveport, Louisiana with the user name

2732
02:36:45,040 --> 02:36:49,600
Speaker 8: suck me Off one word. He described the convention as

2733
02:36:49,920 --> 02:36:53,880
Speaker 8: exhausting but awesome and told me he was quote proud

2734
02:36:54,000 --> 02:36:58,200
Speaker 8: to support President Trump unquote and called Trump's speech on

2735
02:36:58,280 --> 02:37:02,400
Speaker 8: the final day amazing. A lot of the RNC speakers,

2736
02:37:02,440 --> 02:37:05,720
Speaker 8: including Trump, talked about Corey Compretour, the man who was

2737
02:37:05,760 --> 02:37:09,440
Speaker 8: killed at the Trump rally during the attempted assassination. So

2738
02:37:09,920 --> 02:37:13,359
Speaker 8: after mister suck me off talked about how awesome Trump's

2739
02:37:13,400 --> 02:37:17,960
Speaker 8: speech was, I just replied to him, poor Corey, and

2740
02:37:18,320 --> 02:37:22,240
Speaker 8: he messaged me back Corey Who, and that he told

2741
02:37:22,280 --> 02:37:25,280
Speaker 8: me what exact hotel he was staying at. Now, part

2742
02:37:25,360 --> 02:37:28,560
Speaker 8: of the danger of trying to use Grinder directly in

2743
02:37:28,600 --> 02:37:32,360
Speaker 8: the middle of the RNC, even discreetly, is that even

2744
02:37:32,400 --> 02:37:34,880
Speaker 8: if I'm hunched over on my phone, there is a

2745
02:37:35,040 --> 02:37:38,080
Speaker 8: non zero chance that some passer by or persons sitting

2746
02:37:38,120 --> 02:37:41,039
Speaker 8: right above me might catch a glimpse of an unsolicited

2747
02:37:41,120 --> 02:37:43,680
Speaker 8: dickpic that fills my phone screen as I try to

2748
02:37:43,760 --> 02:37:47,040
Speaker 8: check my messages. And this is simply a non negotiable

2749
02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:51,680
Speaker 8: part of the Grinder experience. Whatever you do, grainy, unflattering,

2750
02:37:51,879 --> 02:37:55,040
Speaker 8: bizarrely angled photos of some Balding, forty three year old

2751
02:37:55,160 --> 02:37:59,640
Speaker 8: married man will appear in your inbox ordinarroly. I would

2752
02:37:59,720 --> 02:38:02,160
Speaker 8: check the profile first to see who might be sending

2753
02:38:02,240 --> 02:38:05,680
Speaker 8: me a photo to weed out the undesirable prospects before

2754
02:38:05,760 --> 02:38:09,960
Speaker 8: even considering to open up a DM. Unfortunately, multiple factors

2755
02:38:10,000 --> 02:38:12,560
Speaker 8: prevented me from doing this. For one, this was research,

2756
02:38:12,600 --> 02:38:15,040
Speaker 8: so I needed to collect the most amount of data possible.

2757
02:38:15,640 --> 02:38:18,600
Speaker 8: But moreover, even if I still wanted to vet for

2758
02:38:18,680 --> 02:38:23,400
Speaker 8: applicable profiles in my dms, this was impossible without opening

2759
02:38:23,520 --> 02:38:26,720
Speaker 8: up each DM individually and clicking through to their profile

2760
02:38:26,760 --> 02:38:29,439
Speaker 8: from the chatlog. Due to one of the many glitches

2761
02:38:29,560 --> 02:38:34,039
Speaker 8: I experienced using Grinder at the RNC, about halfway through

2762
02:38:34,080 --> 02:38:37,080
Speaker 8: the week, the app started crashing pretty frequently. But the

2763
02:38:37,200 --> 02:38:38,960
Speaker 8: main glitch I had to deal with, which has since

2764
02:38:39,000 --> 02:38:42,680
Speaker 8: been fixed, is that I could not access anyone's profile

2765
02:38:42,800 --> 02:38:45,240
Speaker 8: from the DM's page. I had to click into each

2766
02:38:45,480 --> 02:38:49,360
Speaker 8: individual chat log to open up a user profile, which

2767
02:38:49,440 --> 02:38:52,160
Speaker 8: meant I had to look at a lot more unsolicited

2768
02:38:52,240 --> 02:38:55,840
Speaker 8: dick pics before even being able to check anyone's profile.

2769
02:38:56,400 --> 02:38:59,600
Speaker 8: So there I was watching Ted Cruise's speech sitting underneath

2770
02:38:59,600 --> 02:39:02,959
Speaker 8: about fifty Republicans and right next to both of my bosses,

2771
02:39:03,360 --> 02:39:06,520
Speaker 8: scrolling through an endless stream of Dick pics to see

2772
02:39:06,560 --> 02:39:08,200
Speaker 8: who was local and who was here for the r

2773
02:39:08,280 --> 02:39:12,800
Speaker 8: and C, hoping that whatever Republican voter from Alabama wasn't

2774
02:39:12,920 --> 02:39:16,720
Speaker 8: looking over my shoulder at the plethora of dimly lit

2775
02:39:16,959 --> 02:39:20,480
Speaker 8: hog But I was far from the only one reporting

2776
02:39:20,520 --> 02:39:23,160
Speaker 8: issues with the app during the r and C. Around

2777
02:39:23,280 --> 02:39:26,280
Speaker 8: midday on Tuesday, the second day of the convention, over

2778
02:39:26,320 --> 02:39:29,439
Speaker 8: one thousand users reported a Grinder outage in the Milwaukee

2779
02:39:29,600 --> 02:39:33,400
Speaker 8: area on the website down detector. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

2780
02:39:33,440 --> 02:39:35,600
Speaker 8: wrote on the final day of the r and C

2781
02:39:35,840 --> 02:39:39,120
Speaker 8: that quote reports that the Grinder app crashing increased by

2782
02:39:39,200 --> 02:39:41,840
Speaker 8: more than ninety percent in the past forty eight hours

2783
02:39:41,920 --> 02:39:45,480
Speaker 8: across the country unquote. The down detector heat map showed

2784
02:39:45,520 --> 02:39:49,039
Speaker 8: Grinder outages in Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York, as

2785
02:39:49,160 --> 02:39:52,119
Speaker 8: well as a hot spot of outages in Milwaukee near

2786
02:39:52,200 --> 02:39:56,480
Speaker 8: the end of the convention, indicating users were experiencing issues

2787
02:39:56,520 --> 02:39:59,680
Speaker 8: with the app, possibly due to an increase in act

2788
02:40:01,280 --> 02:40:04,000
Speaker 8: and you will hear more about that activity after this

2789
02:40:04,240 --> 02:40:07,000
Speaker 8: ad break. This episode of It could Happen Here is

2790
02:40:07,040 --> 02:40:10,879
Speaker 8: brought to you in part by the Challenger's soundtrack remix

2791
02:40:11,120 --> 02:40:14,680
Speaker 8: by Boys Noise, which I was listening to as I

2792
02:40:14,840 --> 02:40:17,640
Speaker 8: wrote most of this episode while on the plane back

2793
02:40:17,680 --> 02:40:20,840
Speaker 8: to Atlanta. This episode is also brought to you by

2794
02:40:20,920 --> 02:40:34,760
Speaker 8: these products and services. We once again returned to the grind.

2795
02:40:35,400 --> 02:40:37,680
Speaker 8: We got to keep on grinding. We're almost done, but

2796
02:40:37,760 --> 02:40:39,920
Speaker 8: we got to grind a little more. Just one more

2797
02:40:40,000 --> 02:40:42,360
Speaker 8: grind bro I swear about addictors. One more grind broach,

2798
02:40:42,480 --> 02:40:46,200
Speaker 8: one more grind. During the influx of reports about the

2799
02:40:46,280 --> 02:40:49,840
Speaker 8: Grinder app breaking during the RNC, a post from the

2800
02:40:49,879 --> 02:40:54,119
Speaker 8: Twitter account for the Halfway Post went extremely viral, bolstering

2801
02:40:54,200 --> 02:40:58,320
Speaker 8: claims of a massive increase in activity. Quote breaking, an

2802
02:40:58,400 --> 02:41:02,160
Speaker 8: executive of the gay dating app Grinder says the Republican

2803
02:41:02,280 --> 02:41:07,960
Speaker 8: National Convention is quote basically Grinder's super Bowl unquote. This

2804
02:41:08,160 --> 02:41:11,560
Speaker 8: quote from a Grinder executive went super viral, prompting discussions

2805
02:41:11,600 --> 02:41:14,959
Speaker 8: all over the Internet about five different articles, and even

2806
02:41:15,000 --> 02:41:18,400
Speaker 8: a disgraced former New York Congressman, George Sentos, commented on

2807
02:41:18,480 --> 02:41:21,880
Speaker 8: the phenomenon, content warning gay Republican.

2808
02:41:22,120 --> 02:41:28,160
Speaker 5: So Grinder executives are calling the RNC convention the Grinder

2809
02:41:29,040 --> 02:41:29,720
Speaker 5: super Bowl.

2810
02:41:30,480 --> 02:41:30,879
Speaker 3: Folks.

2811
02:41:31,560 --> 02:41:38,039
Speaker 5: Look, I'm openly gay. No qualms about it. Proud conservative Republican.

2812
02:41:38,400 --> 02:41:41,320
Speaker 5: I met my husband on Grinder and we've been together

2813
02:41:41,520 --> 02:41:44,960
Speaker 5: for six years going on seven, married for almost three.

2814
02:41:45,600 --> 02:41:49,120
Speaker 3: Let me tell you something. Just come out the closet, boys,

2815
02:41:49,360 --> 02:41:53,720
Speaker 3: come on, it's fun. You can be gay and conservative.

2816
02:41:53,920 --> 02:41:57,120
Speaker 5: But look, Grinder's already out of you anyway. Based on

2817
02:41:57,200 --> 02:41:59,320
Speaker 5: the hits, and guess who's in town. It's all you

2818
02:41:59,480 --> 02:42:00,840
Speaker 5: conservative by.

2819
02:42:02,480 --> 02:42:02,640
Speaker 3: Now.

2820
02:42:02,800 --> 02:42:06,560
Speaker 8: I certainly did observe a lot of blank or anonymous profiles,

2821
02:42:06,920 --> 02:42:09,320
Speaker 8: at least more than I'm used to. I also received

2822
02:42:09,360 --> 02:42:13,119
Speaker 8: messages containing variations of hey sexy from at least five

2823
02:42:13,160 --> 02:42:16,800
Speaker 8: accounts that have since been deactivated. And this does line

2824
02:42:16,879 --> 02:42:19,560
Speaker 8: up with a report from a Milwaukee area Grinder user

2825
02:42:19,800 --> 02:42:22,120
Speaker 8: who spoke with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel saying that he

2826
02:42:22,240 --> 02:42:24,400
Speaker 8: noticed a major bump in anonymous users.

2827
02:42:24,920 --> 02:42:25,240
Speaker 3: Quote.

2828
02:42:25,720 --> 02:42:27,680
Speaker 8: On any given day, you'll go on there and see

2829
02:42:27,680 --> 02:42:30,600
Speaker 8: a headless torso or a blank profile, said the source,

2830
02:42:30,600 --> 02:42:33,120
Speaker 8: who did not want to be named. The Grinder user said,

2831
02:42:33,200 --> 02:42:35,880
Speaker 8: on a normal day, you'll encounter maybe ten users with

2832
02:42:35,959 --> 02:42:38,879
Speaker 8: no public profile. But Thursday, when he checked the app,

2833
02:42:39,240 --> 02:42:42,800
Speaker 8: he said he stopped counting at fifty blank profile photos.

2834
02:42:43,080 --> 02:42:43,520
Speaker 3: Unquote.

2835
02:42:44,240 --> 02:42:46,800
Speaker 8: Now we don't have any official data yet on Grinder

2836
02:42:46,920 --> 02:42:49,640
Speaker 8: usage near the twenty twenty four r and C only

2837
02:42:49,720 --> 02:42:53,000
Speaker 8: the down detector reports which our user submitted, but we

2838
02:42:53,280 --> 02:42:56,520
Speaker 8: do at least have data from the last in person

2839
02:42:56,640 --> 02:42:59,800
Speaker 8: convention in Cleveland, Ohio, all the way back in twenty six.

2840
02:43:00,920 --> 02:43:03,879
Speaker 8: A Vice article by Candice Brian spoke with sources from

2841
02:43:03,920 --> 02:43:07,200
Speaker 8: Grinder and wrote that quote, Grinder usage near the Quick

2842
02:43:07,240 --> 02:43:10,440
Speaker 8: and Loans Arena showed a sixty six percent increase during

2843
02:43:10,480 --> 02:43:15,240
Speaker 8: the RNC. Other active destinations including Times Square, Capitol Hill, Disneyland,

2844
02:43:15,320 --> 02:43:18,800
Speaker 8: South Beach, and Trump Tower showed no comparable increase in

2845
02:43:18,959 --> 02:43:23,480
Speaker 8: active users. Unquote. Many of the local twinks and trans

2846
02:43:23,520 --> 02:43:27,760
Speaker 8: folks certainly were concerned about possible RNC freaks hiding on

2847
02:43:27,879 --> 02:43:30,800
Speaker 8: the app. People would often first ask me if I

2848
02:43:30,959 --> 02:43:33,280
Speaker 8: was a Republican or why I was in town before

2849
02:43:33,360 --> 02:43:36,480
Speaker 8: trying to hit on me. One such twink told me, quote,

2850
02:43:36,920 --> 02:43:39,160
Speaker 8: I would be surprised if you were a delegate or something,

2851
02:43:39,480 --> 02:43:43,400
Speaker 8: but I had to check. As the week progressed, more

2852
02:43:43,480 --> 02:43:45,680
Speaker 8: locals told me that they had found a handful of

2853
02:43:45,800 --> 02:43:50,119
Speaker 8: out and proud patriots online, but really not many. In fact,

2854
02:43:50,320 --> 02:43:53,800
Speaker 8: multiple Milwaukee locals I chatted with on Grinder did claim

2855
02:43:53,920 --> 02:43:57,879
Speaker 8: to notice an uptick in users, but mostly recognizable local

2856
02:43:58,000 --> 02:44:00,600
Speaker 8: users who were online for the same reason than I was,

2857
02:44:01,160 --> 02:44:03,920
Speaker 8: to see if there was an influx of closeted Republicans.

2858
02:44:04,280 --> 02:44:07,280
Speaker 8: Someone told me, quote for the record, it's like three

2859
02:44:07,360 --> 02:44:10,480
Speaker 8: times busier here than normal. Everyone is out to see

2860
02:44:10,520 --> 02:44:13,160
Speaker 8: what the Republicans are up to, and the chasers have

2861
02:44:13,240 --> 02:44:16,680
Speaker 8: come out of the woodwork unquote. Far from being the

2862
02:44:16,760 --> 02:44:20,720
Speaker 8: app's super Bowl. According to Weiss, the twenty sixteen rnc's

2863
02:44:20,720 --> 02:44:24,400
Speaker 8: sixty six percent bump in activity is less than one

2864
02:44:24,600 --> 02:44:27,760
Speaker 8: half of the increase in Grinder activity that was seen

2865
02:44:27,920 --> 02:44:31,680
Speaker 8: at the last in person DNC, an event, which was

2866
02:44:31,720 --> 02:44:36,440
Speaker 8: also a whole day shorter. I'lade from Wes Quote. However,

2867
02:44:36,600 --> 02:44:39,720
Speaker 8: from Sunday to Monday, the week of the Democratic National Convention,

2868
02:44:40,120 --> 02:44:43,080
Speaker 8: there was an even higher one hundred and forty eight

2869
02:44:43,160 --> 02:44:47,640
Speaker 8: percent increase in activity around the Wells Fargo Arena in Philadelphia.

2870
02:44:48,040 --> 02:44:48,360
Speaker 3: Quote.

2871
02:44:49,160 --> 02:44:52,360
Speaker 8: It's also worth noting that of that sixty six percent

2872
02:44:52,440 --> 02:44:54,480
Speaker 8: increase in activity around the twenty sixteen r and C,

2873
02:44:55,240 --> 02:44:58,680
Speaker 8: only about forty percent of those users were visiting Cleveland,

2874
02:44:59,080 --> 02:45:03,080
Speaker 8: most were local. Meanwhile, sixty percent of Grinder users active

2875
02:45:03,200 --> 02:45:07,400
Speaker 8: near the DNC in Philadelphia. We're visiting the city. Oh,

2876
02:45:07,520 --> 02:45:10,520
Speaker 8: and that quote from a Grinder executive calling the RNZ

2877
02:45:11,000 --> 02:45:13,880
Speaker 8: grinders a super Bowl, as well as George Sandos's other

2878
02:45:13,959 --> 02:45:17,640
Speaker 8: claim about Grinder purposely outing gay conservatives. Both of those

2879
02:45:17,760 --> 02:45:20,959
Speaker 8: claims originate from Twitter satire accounts.

2880
02:45:21,440 --> 02:45:24,320
Speaker 3: It is totally made up, pure fiction. It's fiction.

2881
02:45:24,840 --> 02:45:25,320
Speaker 4: It's fiction.

2882
02:45:25,840 --> 02:45:27,840
Speaker 3: We made it up. We made this one up. It's

2883
02:45:27,879 --> 02:45:31,160
Speaker 3: a made up tail. It's a total fabrication. It never happened.

2884
02:45:32,120 --> 02:45:35,520
Speaker 8: It's an urban legend that never happened. So no, the

2885
02:45:35,720 --> 02:45:39,520
Speaker 8: RNC is not Grinders a super Bowl. I got messages

2886
02:45:39,600 --> 02:45:42,720
Speaker 8: from over one hundred and fifty different people. Over ninety

2887
02:45:42,800 --> 02:45:46,800
Speaker 8: percent of the messages I received and profiles visible online

2888
02:45:47,000 --> 02:45:50,959
Speaker 8: even while inside the Pfizer forum were from locals completely

2889
02:45:51,080 --> 02:45:54,840
Speaker 8: unaffiliated with the RNZ, and any boost activity that can

2890
02:45:54,879 --> 02:45:56,720
Speaker 8: be attributed to people visiting for the r and C

2891
02:45:57,400 --> 02:45:59,880
Speaker 8: is a minuscule drop in the bucket compared to the

2892
02:46:00,160 --> 02:46:04,360
Speaker 8: proverbial orgy festival of out of town gay Democrats who

2893
02:46:04,480 --> 02:46:08,080
Speaker 8: travel to the DNC, and like, if you think about

2894
02:46:08,160 --> 02:46:12,160
Speaker 8: this logically, this shouldn't at all be surprising. The Republican

2895
02:46:12,240 --> 02:46:14,800
Speaker 8: Party has spent the past two years screaming about how

2896
02:46:14,840 --> 02:46:18,080
Speaker 8: all drag queens are child groomers. And though this was

2897
02:46:18,160 --> 02:46:21,000
Speaker 8: the first year the GOP has removed opposition to gay

2898
02:46:21,080 --> 02:46:24,720
Speaker 8: marriage from their party platform, they have massively increased their

2899
02:46:24,720 --> 02:46:28,160
Speaker 8: opposition to and attacks against trans people and really any

2900
02:46:28,200 --> 02:46:31,200
Speaker 8: display of a visible queerness, like, come on, this is

2901
02:46:31,240 --> 02:46:35,080
Speaker 8: the Republican Party. There's this kind of fucked up cultural

2902
02:46:35,160 --> 02:46:39,520
Speaker 8: conception that homophobic politicians must be so because they are

2903
02:46:39,720 --> 02:46:43,640
Speaker 8: secretly gay. And while there is the occasional like Lindsey

2904
02:46:43,720 --> 02:46:48,320
Speaker 8: Graham or repressed homosexual preacher, this is not the norm,

2905
02:46:48,720 --> 02:46:52,880
Speaker 8: and all Republicans being secretly gay is not the driving

2906
02:46:53,000 --> 02:46:57,000
Speaker 8: force of legislative homophobia. It is an ideological drive, largely

2907
02:46:57,120 --> 02:47:00,879
Speaker 8: in furtherance of hegemonic Christian nationalism, and now for people

2908
02:47:00,920 --> 02:47:04,680
Speaker 8: like Elon Musk and more, young Republicans of fascistic notion

2909
02:47:04,879 --> 02:47:08,520
Speaker 8: of reproductive futurism built on fears that young people white

2910
02:47:08,560 --> 02:47:13,320
Speaker 8: people aren't having enough white babies, which they partially attribute

2911
02:47:13,320 --> 02:47:16,119
Speaker 8: to society becoming more accepting of gay and trans people,

2912
02:47:16,480 --> 02:47:21,440
Speaker 8: resulting in people having less reproductive or heterosexual sex. Never

2913
02:47:21,520 --> 02:47:24,200
Speaker 8: mind the fact that queer and trans people oftentimes can

2914
02:47:24,400 --> 02:47:27,560
Speaker 8: and do have children, which still doesn't seem to please

2915
02:47:27,600 --> 02:47:30,760
Speaker 8: these conservatives, as it doesn't align with their traditionalist view

2916
02:47:30,840 --> 02:47:34,520
Speaker 8: of the family unit. So no, Grinder wasn't flooded with

2917
02:47:34,600 --> 02:47:38,280
Speaker 8: closeted Republicans because there simply isn't that many closeted Republicans

2918
02:47:38,320 --> 02:47:41,160
Speaker 8: that are going to be attending the RNC. And while

2919
02:47:41,200 --> 02:47:44,280
Speaker 8: there may not be as many Republicans as I thought

2920
02:47:44,400 --> 02:47:47,400
Speaker 8: there might be, I do believe that I have the

2921
02:47:47,440 --> 02:47:51,080
Speaker 8: bump in activity, albeit a smaller bump than rumored. Basically

2922
02:47:51,360 --> 02:47:55,360
Speaker 8: figured out based on my anecdotal experience and the reports

2923
02:47:55,400 --> 02:47:57,880
Speaker 8: of a handful of local Grinder users and journalists I

2924
02:47:58,000 --> 02:48:00,600
Speaker 8: talked with who were online during the twenty twenty four

2925
02:48:00,720 --> 02:48:04,480
Speaker 8: rn C, and considering the twenty sixteen Grinder data, I

2926
02:48:04,520 --> 02:48:08,240
Speaker 8: can report that merely a small minority of activity was

2927
02:48:08,320 --> 02:48:13,280
Speaker 8: due to ordinary RNZ attendees. The majority of activity was

2928
02:48:13,400 --> 02:48:17,359
Speaker 8: from locals who either regularly used Grinder or were specifically

2929
02:48:17,480 --> 02:48:22,160
Speaker 8: curious about who might be online during the RNC. I

2930
02:48:22,280 --> 02:48:25,640
Speaker 8: observed two more groups that would contribute to any noticeable

2931
02:48:25,800 --> 02:48:29,520
Speaker 8: increase in activity. Not everyone who attends the RNC are

2932
02:48:29,640 --> 02:48:32,400
Speaker 8: guests or delegates. A lot of people work at the

2933
02:48:32,480 --> 02:48:35,800
Speaker 8: convention center or work tech, and a sizeable chunk of

2934
02:48:35,840 --> 02:48:39,840
Speaker 8: people are like myself, researchers, pollsters or journalists who attend

2935
02:48:39,879 --> 02:48:43,959
Speaker 8: conventions like this for work. And lastly, the final group

2936
02:48:44,080 --> 02:48:47,440
Speaker 8: that fills out the bump in grinder activity, one that

2937
02:48:47,800 --> 02:48:50,400
Speaker 8: for some reason didn't really expect to see upon arrival,

2938
02:48:50,520 --> 02:48:52,680
Speaker 8: but in retrospect makes total sense.

2939
02:48:53,640 --> 02:48:54,520
Speaker 3: Are cops?

2940
02:48:55,240 --> 02:48:58,240
Speaker 8: So many cops? There were so many cops online at

2941
02:48:58,240 --> 02:49:01,720
Speaker 8: the RNC, just like delegates or reporters. They are coming

2942
02:49:01,800 --> 02:49:04,720
Speaker 8: to town from all around the country. There was cops

2943
02:49:04,840 --> 02:49:10,000
Speaker 8: or state troopers from Texas, Ohio, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, California, Indiana,

2944
02:49:10,360 --> 02:49:13,520
Speaker 8: and many more states, as well as US Capitol Police,

2945
02:49:13,600 --> 02:49:16,040
Speaker 8: Secret Service, TSA, DHS.

2946
02:49:15,840 --> 02:49:16,440
Speaker 3: And FBI.

2947
02:49:16,879 --> 02:49:18,840
Speaker 8: They were all in town as a part of the

2948
02:49:18,920 --> 02:49:21,880
Speaker 8: security detail. A few of the guys that messaged me

2949
02:49:22,040 --> 02:49:24,800
Speaker 8: I can absolutely confirm are one hundred percent police or

2950
02:49:24,879 --> 02:49:28,040
Speaker 8: some kind of military police. A thirty three year old

2951
02:49:28,120 --> 02:49:32,280
Speaker 8: cop or military guy quote looking for sexy bottoms with

2952
02:49:32,440 --> 02:49:36,680
Speaker 8: the tag's jock military discreete and weightlifting, as well as

2953
02:49:36,760 --> 02:49:39,160
Speaker 8: many pictures of him in the gym. Said it in

2954
02:49:39,280 --> 02:49:42,640
Speaker 8: his bio that he was quote really into slim skinny

2955
02:49:42,800 --> 02:49:48,240
Speaker 8: toned and muscular people. He messaged me saying, hey, now

2956
02:49:48,840 --> 02:49:52,120
Speaker 8: I got a lot of Hayese in my inbox, which

2957
02:49:52,160 --> 02:49:56,119
Speaker 8: is not unusual for Grinder. You will probably mostly get

2958
02:49:56,440 --> 02:49:58,400
Speaker 8: hay as a message as well as just like, you know,

2959
02:49:58,440 --> 02:50:01,200
Speaker 8: a picture of someone's penis, but between a penis and hey,

2960
02:50:01,480 --> 02:50:03,840
Speaker 8: those are probably the two most received messages you will

2961
02:50:03,879 --> 02:50:06,879
Speaker 8: get on Grinder. There was another guy with a username

2962
02:50:07,280 --> 02:50:10,760
Speaker 8: DL military who said in his bio he was working

2963
02:50:10,879 --> 02:50:14,280
Speaker 8: security for the week and that Grinder messages had completely

2964
02:50:14,360 --> 02:50:17,599
Speaker 8: broke for him and to instead message him on Snapchat.

2965
02:50:18,400 --> 02:50:22,039
Speaker 8: The DL in DL military stands for down low. It's

2966
02:50:22,080 --> 02:50:25,160
Speaker 8: a tag that only the worst people on Grinder will use,

2967
02:50:25,280 --> 02:50:29,840
Speaker 8: mainly like self hating gay men who are closeted and

2968
02:50:29,959 --> 02:50:31,959
Speaker 8: it's download because they don't want to be like publicly

2969
02:50:32,040 --> 02:50:35,480
Speaker 8: seen being gay. Just absolutely the worst. We do not

2970
02:50:35,600 --> 02:50:39,680
Speaker 8: fuck with DL, both literally and figuratively. There were a

2971
02:50:39,720 --> 02:50:42,920
Speaker 8: bunch of other non locals who I would describe as

2972
02:50:43,400 --> 02:50:46,640
Speaker 8: cop types. I can't one hundred percent say for sure

2973
02:50:46,760 --> 02:50:49,920
Speaker 8: that they are cops, but they have like the look,

2974
02:50:50,080 --> 02:50:53,360
Speaker 8: you know, like the look, the cop look. I don't know.

2975
02:50:53,440 --> 02:50:56,160
Speaker 8: They could also be like a bodyguard or working private security.

2976
02:50:56,560 --> 02:51:00,880
Speaker 8: But one of these cop looking guys message to me

2977
02:51:01,000 --> 02:51:03,039
Speaker 8: asking if I was a trans guy, which I always

2978
02:51:03,120 --> 02:51:05,200
Speaker 8: love to see. It means I'm doing gender very well.

2979
02:51:05,760 --> 02:51:09,439
Speaker 8: And a few other cop types sent relatively boring messages.

2980
02:51:10,280 --> 02:51:12,120
Speaker 8: So yeah, a lot of cops, which is not completely

2981
02:51:12,160 --> 02:51:15,200
Speaker 8: surprising considering the fact that basically half the cops in

2982
02:51:15,240 --> 02:51:19,000
Speaker 8: the country were at the Republican National Convention in some

2983
02:51:19,280 --> 02:51:23,520
Speaker 8: form or another. A few final notes, Now this didn't

2984
02:51:23,560 --> 02:51:26,240
Speaker 8: really make up a sizeable chunk of the Grinder population,

2985
02:51:26,920 --> 02:51:30,440
Speaker 8: but after saying I was just covering the RNC, a

2986
02:51:30,520 --> 02:51:33,840
Speaker 8: couple people on Grinder just completely unprompted told me that

2987
02:51:33,959 --> 02:51:36,680
Speaker 8: they were attending the protests against the RNC.

2988
02:51:37,080 --> 02:51:37,840
Speaker 3: Please do not do this.

2989
02:51:38,080 --> 02:51:41,480
Speaker 8: That's a horrible idea for multiple reasons. You gotta stop

2990
02:51:41,520 --> 02:51:44,800
Speaker 8: talking about your political activities on dating apps, especially Grinder,

2991
02:51:44,920 --> 02:51:49,120
Speaker 8: especially at the RNC. Horrible idea. Do not do this.

2992
02:51:51,240 --> 02:51:55,440
Speaker 8: And despite my lazy attempt at a young Republican disguised

2993
02:51:55,520 --> 02:51:58,520
Speaker 8: online profile, a few too many people did recognize me

2994
02:51:58,600 --> 02:52:00,720
Speaker 8: from Twitter or the pod, but they they were very nice.

2995
02:52:00,760 --> 02:52:03,039
Speaker 8: They gave me some recommendations for gay bars to check

2996
02:52:03,080 --> 02:52:06,040
Speaker 8: out after convention hours, and one person told me this

2997
02:52:06,160 --> 02:52:09,240
Speaker 8: interesting anecdote that I'd like to share. Quote, I don't

2998
02:52:09,280 --> 02:52:11,720
Speaker 8: think Trump is going to win. I can missed for

2999
02:52:11,800 --> 02:52:15,000
Speaker 8: Hillary in twenty sixteen, and at least here it doesn't

3000
02:52:15,120 --> 02:52:15,960
Speaker 8: feel the same.

3001
02:52:16,400 --> 02:52:16,879
Speaker 3: Unquote.

3002
02:52:17,560 --> 02:52:19,280
Speaker 8: I thought that was a little interesting tinbit that I

3003
02:52:19,400 --> 02:52:21,840
Speaker 8: received at probably round three am on grinder.

3004
02:52:22,280 --> 02:52:23,200
Speaker 3: So there you go.

3005
02:52:23,640 --> 02:52:26,880
Speaker 8: Anyway, that was my RNC Grinder experience.

3006
02:52:27,400 --> 02:52:27,959
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to.

3007
02:52:28,000 --> 02:52:31,520
Speaker 8: Report it is not the hotbed of closeted Republicans that

3008
02:52:31,680 --> 02:52:34,920
Speaker 8: we mean it to be. It's mostly local gaze, a

3009
02:52:35,040 --> 02:52:38,760
Speaker 8: few reporters and a few more cops. I do not

3010
02:52:38,840 --> 02:52:42,360
Speaker 8: think I'll be reporting on the DNC grinder, but I

3011
02:52:42,480 --> 02:52:46,440
Speaker 8: am curious to see if there is a sizeable increase

3012
02:52:46,440 --> 02:52:51,080
Speaker 8: in activity as compared to the RNZ Grinder. So I

3013
02:52:51,160 --> 02:52:53,440
Speaker 8: guess I will maybe posted by that on Twitter at

3014
02:52:53,520 --> 02:52:56,520
Speaker 8: Hungry bow Tie if you want updates on that. Anyway,

3015
02:52:56,560 --> 02:52:59,160
Speaker 8: Stay safe out there. Be careful if you're ever on grinder,

3016
02:52:59,280 --> 02:53:03,040
Speaker 8: please especially I don't tell someone covering the RNC that

3017
02:53:03,160 --> 02:53:05,800
Speaker 8: you're attending any protests, but in general, be careful on

3018
02:53:05,840 --> 02:53:08,000
Speaker 8: these types of dating apps, and I will see you

3019
02:53:08,160 --> 02:53:15,000
Speaker 8: on the other side. Message from Quickie Grinder said you

3020
02:53:15,120 --> 02:53:18,080
Speaker 8: were super close yesterday. Wasn't stalking?

3021
02:53:18,200 --> 02:53:18,800
Speaker 3: I promise?

3022
02:53:19,480 --> 02:53:23,560
Speaker 8: Message from birthday present emoji. I almost thought you were

3023
02:53:23,640 --> 02:53:28,480
Speaker 8: Josh Thomas. Message from anonymous. Wait are you pro or

3024
02:53:28,560 --> 02:53:31,760
Speaker 8: anti Republican? I'm not gonna lie. I mainly asked your

3025
02:53:31,760 --> 02:53:33,680
Speaker 8: politics because I thought you were cute, but I didn't

3026
02:53:33,680 --> 02:53:37,040
Speaker 8: want to hit on a Trumper message from older for

3027
02:53:37,200 --> 02:53:40,440
Speaker 8: young aren't all the delegates propositioning you?

3028
02:53:40,879 --> 02:53:41,600
Speaker 3: You're cute?

3029
02:53:42,360 --> 02:53:47,480
Speaker 8: Message from anonymous? Why establish a detlitarian state if I

3030
02:53:47,600 --> 02:53:51,560
Speaker 8: can't breed It's a dictator message from suck me off?

3031
02:53:52,560 --> 02:53:53,680
Speaker 8: I'm down for anything.

3032
02:53:54,480 --> 02:53:54,840
Speaker 3: Lol.

3033
02:53:55,080 --> 02:53:56,240
Speaker 8: Are you supporting Trump?

3034
02:53:56,720 --> 02:53:57,000
Speaker 2: Ha ha?

3035
02:54:02,920 --> 02:54:03,080
Speaker 6: Hey.

3036
02:54:03,240 --> 02:54:06,320
Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

3037
02:54:06,360 --> 02:54:08,039
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the Universe.

3038
02:54:08,959 --> 02:54:11,320
Speaker 2: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

3039
02:54:11,560 --> 02:54:14,200
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3040
02:54:14,280 --> 02:54:17,360
Speaker 2: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3041
02:54:17,400 --> 02:54:20,720
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3042
02:54:20,800 --> 02:54:23,440
Speaker 2: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

3043
02:54:23,520 --> 02:54:26,720
Speaker 2: Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.