WEBVTT - Bob Rock 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:13.119 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bobs Podcast. My guest 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:18.439 today is musician, engineer, producer Bob Rock. Bob good to have. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.160 It's good to be here. I'm a big fan, Bob. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.720 You're in a white right, Yes, I'm in Maui. I 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.360 live in a small place called Haiku on the north 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.360 shore of Maui. Yeah. How did you decide to move 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.519 to a wire Well, my wife decided to move to 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:38.880 Haaii and I followed her. We we you know. Um, 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:42.519 Basically what happened is, uh, we knew we wanted to 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.440 kind of live in the States, you know, at some 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.519 point in my my life it was best for for us. 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.400 For those who don't know, you aren't Canadian, Yes, but 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.000 I'm a US resident. I've been here twenty five years, 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.920 you know. So. But the thing is is, you know, 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:00.760 my wife, she goes, you're always in the studio, but 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.440 I gotta deal with in Vancouver. I gotta deal with 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.959 taking the kids to school in the rain. She says, 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:08.639 I don't want to do that anymore. Let's move to Hawaii, 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.720 And I said, sure, let's try it. So we tried it, 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.840 built a house and never went back. Basically, it's it's 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.080 a good life here. How many years you've been in Maui? Yeah, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:23.240 twenty five years. Okay, So you have how many kids 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.160 do you have? I have six? Okay, you have six kids? 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.200 What are their ages? Oh? From I guess thirty nine 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.880 to twenty four? Two boys and yeah, and five girls? No, 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:40.240 it's four girls. Sorry? And how many are with your 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.200 present wife? If not all of them? Uh? Four? So 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.040 are any of them with you in Hawaii? Yes? My 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:50.400 last daughter that's at home is Sally and she's twenty four. Yeah. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.520 So what's it like in the covid era in Hawaii? 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.360 It's it's kind of for me, it's kind of okay. 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.240 We have horses, we've got property, we've got twenty care's 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.160 on another part of the island. So I basically get 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.680 up in the morning, going to my studio right a bit, 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:08.600 and then I go to the barn and I'm just 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.040 you know, I do chores all day and I come 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.960 back here. So it's not that bad. I just see 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.960 the animals. We got lots of horses and goats, and yeah, 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.080 that's what I do. And are you seeing any people? 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:26.440 Are you taking the quarantining things seriously? Uh? Definitely, Seriously, 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.800 I just turned sixty six. I happy birthday. I had 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.040 my birthday just a few days after years. Really, I'm 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.480 the twenty second cool so you know, the wife and 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.720 my daughter says I can't do anything, so they do 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.680 all the shopping. I'm okay with this, you know, and 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.160 it's for me. I don't think I've ever had this 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.919 much time off since I started my career. Seriously, like 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.560 three months going on three months. It's like this is 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.920 something else. Okay, So but in today you can record 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.639 from different locations. Are you doing any recording or is 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.680 everybody kind of locked down? Everybody's kind of locked down. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.920 I've got uh you know, I mean we trade files, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.880 et cetera. Um, but that's not really kind of like 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:17.040 what I do. You know you can do that, uh, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.520 Like I said, that's not really how I approach it. 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.560 But I am. I'm sitting on two albums that i've 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.240 I've finished and they were supposed to be basically be 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.720 out right now, one with Richie Sambora, a good friend 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.680 of mine, and the other one was the Offspring album. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.800 And both albums, I mean, we were done three months ago, 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.720 but now they're not gonna come out until next year probably, 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.840 which is kind of it's very strange. Well, that may change, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.720 you know, I'll discuss that with Garino. But it's like 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:47.960 it seems like, now this's gonna go on a long 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:49.520 time and you can't go on the road. It's a 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.720 good time because there aren't that many new albums out 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.600 by major acts. Yeah. The thing is is what I 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.440 noticed is all my friends Dexter and like Ritchie and 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.800 and other people, everybody with the bou Blet Camp, everybody, 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.440 I know, we're all writing, which is kind of good, 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.960 you know, yeah, because normally you're working too hard to write. Yeah, 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.320 usually you see that. I've got into this whole thing 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.520 where I get up early before everybody gets up, and 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.760 I'm in the studio writing for probably a couple of 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.120 hours every day, you know, five o'clock in the morning. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.760 You know, that's my alone time. Okay. Are you normally 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.160 an early morning person? Yeah, I kind of am, you know, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.479 you know, rather than late at night. I'm just kind 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.520 of like, I like it early in the morning. What 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.440 I discovered is that I'm more creative in the morning 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.840 because my head hasn't gotten into the day. My head 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.320 is blank when I get up, you know, so I 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:47.400 find that's the best time to create. I'm just the opposite. 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:53.720 But now don't most aren't most musicians nocturnal? Yes they are. 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:58.200 So how does that how does that work for your schedule? Well, 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:02.280 you know, schedules of change. I mean, you know, when 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.560 I was younger, it was, you know what, always always 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.159 end up being new until like whenever, like Metallica, we 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.800 we would work un till four in the morning, you know, 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.200 and then just get up and just try and get 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.800 to the studio and start again. But that was the 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.920 younger days, you know. I try and keep I try 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.839 and keep a limit on twelve hours now because usually 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.800 after twelve hours I'm done. That's a long time. So 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:32.120 how extensive is your studio in Hawaii? Well, I actually 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:37.520 kind of have a full a full big SSL and 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.040 need all the gear, but that went away with the budgets. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.480 You know. I had a lot of people coming here 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.039 and we had a great time. But nobody can afford 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.600 to come to Maui and and you know stay here 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:54.000 to be quite honest, So it's kind of dormant, which 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.240 is kind of sad for me. But but theoretically, if 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.159 someone had the money, they could do the whole album 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:04.360 at your studio theoretically, yeah, you know, so you just 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.800 talked about doing these albums like with the Offspring, so 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.400 you go to the act at this point. Yes, that's 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.560 the thing. I got to California and I mainly go 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:16.400 to Vancouver. I use Brian Adams studio. It's an amazing 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.279 studio and you know, basically I came from that town, 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.160 so it's really easy for me to record. It's it's 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.240 the best studio. I bring everybody there. They love it. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.800 And so like if you cut the Offspringer, you work 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.360 with Richie Sambora, do you work continuously and how long 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:40.240 does that take? Well? With with both projects, those guys 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.400 they kind of we don't really do three months at 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.440 a time and just do an album, you know, because 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:50.359 they're writers constantly writing. So with with Dexter, I go 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.360 to Huntington Beach, stay there and we usually work like 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.159 two three weeks and then we take a break, you know. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:58.960 And then with Richie it's the same thing. I go 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.320 and stay at his house. Um. The thing is is 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.880 like you know, even with the big guys who can 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.839 afford it, you know, what has happened is like I 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:13.280 put a studio portable studio in Richie's house. It's in 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.400 his dining room and it's been there for three years. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.360 I guess he's not eating much. No, that the problem 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.920 is is actually the studios right by the kitchen, which 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.120 is kind of a drag because we eat all day. 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.880 But as it turned out, he just loved it and 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.720 it hasn't left, you know, because it's so creative. You know, 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:32.800 you can do it, and then we go to the 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.440 studio and we cut like for instance, Able Boreo Jr. 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.200 Paul McCartney, Fame, etcetera. We just went into a studio 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.640 for three days and did all the drum tracks, you know, 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.760 So it's different now, it's it's very rare that I 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:51.160 record everything at the same time. So how do you 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.480 feel and how does your wife feel about being separated 0:07:55.520 --> 0:08:00.520 for all these recording projects. Well, I think, you know, 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.200 we've been together for thirty or five years, so she's 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.680 kind of she understands, you know, and that's I think 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.960 that's the greatest thing about my wife, Angie, is that 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.920 we've always had that understand and she gets what I 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.760 did and she knew what she was getting into. So 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.800 we've managed to be okay with the whole thing. But 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.880 it's some It takes a lot to get up for 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:23.480 me to get on a plane and go away. Now, 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.600 let's put it that way. It has to be special. 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.600 Those guys are very very special. So in the average 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.439 year prior to this insane era, how much of the 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:40.840 year were you outside Hawaii? Maybe for nine months? Okay, 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:45.559 so most of the time. And these records, you're producing, 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.880 and you're engineering yourself, and you're mixing yourself, you're working 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:55.360 with other people. Now, I um, you know, just generally, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:02.320 what I found is that I kind of oversee the 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.760 how these sonics go. But I I found, you know, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.360 when I changed to kind of more producing. You know, 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.840 the first records that I did, when I started producing, 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.720 I did everything and I realized that my perspective was 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.440 off and I couldn't do both. So I've always worked 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.959 with an engineer to help me. Right now, I've got 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.480 a great engineer, Adam Greenholtz, but you know, I've worked 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.959 with engineers when I got into producing more seriously, it's 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.559 just too much work, and I said, the perspective changes, 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.880 you know, and who does the mixing? Well, I do 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.640 the mixing, and sometimes it's gets uh put out for 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.079 mixers that are hot, you know, like Chris Lord, Algae, 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.160 Buff Clare, Mountain, etcetera. You know, and that has changed 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:50.880 from when, you know, when I started. When I started, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.160 it was like it was, you know, we we mixed 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.280 our own stuff, which is you know, lover boy, you know, 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.560 slippery when wet. Everything that I did didn't even the 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.120 first things that I you know, even Metallica and Motley 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.200 Crue I was mixing. But then it turned into the 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.560 business turned into A and rs and record companies always 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.520 went to the same people, and so that changed. But 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.120 I actually liked the old days. There was this great competition, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:20.920 you know, you know I did, you know, I go 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.199 out and buy what the record that Bob did because 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.600 I want to know what he did. You know, it 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.959 was always there was great competition, and the competition kind 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.160 of went out of fashion in a way, kind of 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.640 got boring. And are you happy with the mixes these 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.800 people do? I mean, ultimately you're happy because the record 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.120 comes out, but do you feel that you could do 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.600 just as good or a different job than the usual suspects. 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.800 I don't think it's better, It's just it's a different perspective, 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.640 you know, I'll tell you a funny story. One of 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.440 the one of the last records that I that I 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.280 did the whole record, and uh, I was mixing in 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.600 my studio here and I thought, I wonder if I've 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.319 got any any better, So I put up term me 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.920 lose or not terminators working for the weekend? Okay. And 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.560 then the mix that I was doing a bank called 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.840 American Bang who turned into Cadillac three. Okay. So I'm 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.679 mixing this song and I compared TOI and sonically they 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.360 signed it exactly the same. So basically I've learned nothing 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:21.240 or or else you got bell? No? Well, no, The 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.320 thing is, that's my perspective. Do you follow me? That's 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.160 the way I hear music. So to me, if people 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.320 like that perspective, I usually mix. If they want a 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.280 different perspective, they go to somebody else. Okay, you talked 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.720 about budgets. Obviously that would mean that you're making less 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.720 money and a lot of these records don't generate as 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.520 much capital as they used to. How has that changed 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:53.160 your perspective, Uh, It's my perspective is the same. You know, 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:59.120 I got into this for the love of of making records. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.400 I mean that is my art form. You know, I 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.560 came from a group and I made records and I 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:10.600 wrote songs, etcetera. But to me, it's making records that 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.480 I love. So I'm gonna make records no matter how 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.320 much I make. I just choose who I want to 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:20.520 work with now, so I don't mind about the monetary thing. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.280 It's always nice. But you know, I get paid well. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.079 And if I have to make a deal to do 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.679 a project, if I like the project, I'll do it 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.679 bottom line. Okay, So let's assume you're on a project 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.480 and you're not living in Richie's house, you're living in 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.360 a hotel. Well, when Vancouver? Do you have your own 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.959 place in Vancouver? What do you what do you stand 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:48.080 in hotel? Okay? A lot of people don't like that life. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.439 How how do you do that? You know the session 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.200 is over? How do you keep yourself seeing? Um? Well, 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.440 in Vancouver it's easy because I have friends and family there, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.160 so that's easy. And I have friends in Los Angeles. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.760 Those are really the primary the two places. And you know, 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.720 if like when I was doing Van Morrison, you know, 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.680 five years back, it was great because I was in 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.920 London for like a couple of months, right, And I 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.120 love London. So you get to be in London, you 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:22.440 do things. Okay, let's go back to something you said earlier, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.520 talked about writing. What are you personally working on in 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.560 terms of writing? Well, what I do is I constantly right, 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.160 That's how I write. I put together tracks and I 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.439 guess present terms, it would be almost like rap producers 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.120 put together beats or a track and usually handed off 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.160 to an artist. That's what I did. So on the 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:46.520 new Zambora album, uh, we co wrote basically, I think 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.880 about eight songs on the record and I just brought tracks, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:55.680 which is very different, you know, But somehow we had 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.959 so much fun that we just kept going. So the 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.880 new stuff, it's like it's him and I writing. Okay, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.400 so you go to the studio early in the morning. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.640 How long does do you work on a track or 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.240 do you come back to a track? I mean tracks 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.920 are done, Records are done when you all feel like 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.920 you've nailed it. So that yeah, I'm not I'm not 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:20.640 actually talking about that. I'm talking about you know, y 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.680 now when you're working alone starting a ground zero. You 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.640 talked about your writing. I assume you're creating things out 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.960 of thin air. Or maybe I have that wrong. No, no, no, 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:35.880 it's basically and this is what amazing technology has happened. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:41.240 The technology has come uh to make it really easy. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.520 So I work on my laptop so I can put 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.640 together a track in about an hour, you know, basically 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.560 with like I've got my own uh drum kind of 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.320 sample library, et cetera, so I can. So something inspires me, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.960 I'll hear something that'll spark and I'll just play guitar, 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.240 you know, and they'll be something that I take and 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.880 I take that and then I develop it and usually 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:05.920 like I've been working on a piece of music now 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.920 for two weeks and it started out as this, but 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.920 it went there, which is kind of in a funny way, 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.720 the way I work with artists. You know, you start 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.680 with something and you have an idea and you work 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.280 with it and it goes somewhere else. You know, conceptually, 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.280 records for me, you know, you can talk about conceptions 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:28.600 in terms of how you're going to make a record, 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.640 et cetera, but it always comes down to the work 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.640 that you put in in the hours that you spend. 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.920 You know, it can either happen very quickly or it 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.040 can happen over a length of time. People kind of 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.440 update these days. I believe a lot, at least that's 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.080 what I do. So even like with with the time 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:51.320 that Ritchie and Dexter have had because of the virus thing, 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.480 of course they're starting to hear things that they want 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.800 to change even though we finish the record, because that's 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.800 what musicians do. You constantly want you think it can 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:04.320 be better. I'm not sure that works, but the way 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.080 it was was great, but now you know, looking at it, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.000 you always think it can be a little bit better. 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:11.960 And so you said, you've got an idea, tell me 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:17.000 about that inspiration. It can be like a beat, it 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.200 can be a sound, it can be something that I've 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:25.200 heard and when like um, when I moved to Hawaii, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.160 I realized that a lot of the music stores don't 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.680 have all the vintage gear that I collect and most 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.400 of the gear that I've collected through the years. It's 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:39.600 always like a sound like I have every amplifier, effect 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.960 and guitar that Jimmy Page has, same with like Jeff Beck, 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.480 same with Eric Clapton, same with Leslie West, same with 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.960 Brian May, same with David Gilmour. I collected all the 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.600 amps and everything and it's kind of like it's almost 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.640 like an artist's palette, right, you know, all these colors, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:04.680 and that's what I do. So yeah, so it will 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.560 It'll start with that and I get inspired. Like, for instance, 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.439 I have a collection of amplifiers, and Jimmy Page is 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.480 one of the biggest influences on my whole life, basically 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.479 from led Zeppelin on, you know, and so I've got 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.320 a collection. I've got the actual amplifier that he used, 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.040 not the amplifier, but the exact amplifier that he used 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.840 on led Zeppelin one. And I've got the same guitar. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.359 I've got everything, right, I never nailed the sound. A 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.520 month ago I discovered on the Internet that I was 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:39.000 missing one piece of gear, which was a two bACC Coplex, 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.439 and I have one. So I hooked it up and 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.480 I got the sin that I got the sound on 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.720 good times bad times, and I was like a little kid. 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.040 I was dancing around the series because I actually nailed it. Now, 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:56.919 what I'm gonna do with that, I have no idea, 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.120 but the fact is I still get excited about that. Okay, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.199 how much equipment do you have? How many guitars do 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.600 you have? I don't count them, but it's over a hundred, 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.280 you know, a hundred and something. I have a warehouse 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.640 full of amps and keyboards, et cetera, vintage stuff. That's 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.440 my question, is the is the warehouse in MAUI? Yeah, 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.560 it's down below. Yeah. And how many amps do you 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:26.600 think you have? Oh? I don't know. I've lost count, 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.440 but I still buy them. I still buy I still yeah. 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.600 You see went earlier on, like when I started I 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.440 first started playing guitar, I had my dad could only 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.920 afford a I can't guitar, and I had a heath 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.080 kid am. So I was always like everybody else had 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.840 better gear than me. So it kind of started this 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.280 thing with me. So as soon as I started making 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.359 money writing songs in my band, the pay all is 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.000 I always put the money that I made by writing 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.159 songs back into something. So like, for instance, one of 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:03.240 our biggest songs with the Pails was Eyes of a Stranger. Okay, 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.440 And how I got that is I read about Bob 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.960 Marley using a drum machine on the Natty Dread album. 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.159 I listened to it and I found out what the 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.920 drum machine. So I got a check for writing songs, 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.960 bought that drum machine. That drum machine turned into the 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:20.960 machine that I used on Eyes of a Stranger that 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.640 wrote the song. So I've done that for basically almost 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:29.359 forty years. I keep doing it. Okay, let's assume you 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.760 wake up and you don't have an idea. Will you 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.840 sit there long enough or you just work on something 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.880 you've already been working on, UM a bit of both. 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.760 Sometimes I wake up and i'm you know, when I 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.960 wake up in the morning, I kind of think of things. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.720 I'll think of a song. Now I can kind of 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.480 do it in ahead changes, etcetera. What you do when 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:55.000 you when you become a writer, etcetera. You learned that 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.680 there's certain standard changes. So to me, there's so many 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.600 things that basically are the same song. So it's really 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.879 about a feel, a feel that I hear or something 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.000 that I remember. So I walk into the studio with 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.280 kind of like that idea and I just try and 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:17.479 usually what that seed takes me somewhere that I didn't 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.679 you know, it wasn't conceived. That seed made me go 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.880 somewhere else, and that's when I get something I like. Now, 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:33.040 this begs the question, how do you attribute songwriting credits? Well, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:40.040 songwriting credits. It's it's like, that's what I've done my 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.119 whole life. Is I never anything that I ever added 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.840 to anything that I've worked on Up until a couple 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.680 of years ago. I never took credit because I didn't 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.920 think I wanted to be in that game, So suggestions 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.440 that I did as a producer I never kind of went, well, 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.240 I I need credit for that because I like being 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.720 a pre docer and I think it's a different game 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.399 to be a songwriter. You know. I didn't want to 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.280 be in that game. I just wanted to produce and 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:10.160 make records. Things have changed slightly and and I think 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:13.520 I think I put it out there a bit more 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.439 like I just did an album with Jenn Arden up 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.720 in Canada and we just we kind of played a 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.920 couple of tracks, she wrote songs, and we just kept going. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:31.959 Same thing with Ritchie, So we'll see how it goes. Okay, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.600 now you talk about the reverence for Jimmy Page, and 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.160 I was smiling, just can talk about that sound from 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:42.760 good times bad times? Do you think these artists that 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.360 have had previous peaks a decade or so previously, how 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.439 would you personally try to get their head back in 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.200 the game. If you had an opportunity, like if you 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.960 had Jimmy Page, what would you do to try to 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.600 get him to create something akin to his classic era, 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:07.160 not in sound, but in that's Ah, that's a tough one, actually, No, Jimmy, 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:10.399 you know, and we've talked and we've had you know, 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:16.480 and stuff, and it's really really different when somebody like that, 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.320 when you're at the presence of somebody that you revere, 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.159 you know, that is a tough thing. You know. I 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.760 just make him comfortable and from what I know, I 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.119 would go with what I know and and kind of 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.600 what he does and kind of make him, you know, 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.320 kind of look back, but not go back, you know. 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.760 As as Bowie said, it's you know, he's every album 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.920 he makes is the same but different. So it's almost 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.399 like recognizing what's good about what you do. Like I 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:50.720 I'd like to see Jimmy play the blues. I think 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.600 he would make an incredible blues album like The Stones 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:57.840 did because basically that was, you know, that's the seed 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.040 of my whole career in my life, really the three 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:04.760 guys Jeff Back, Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page and the 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.560 Truth Album, the Jeff Back Album and leads up on One, 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.960 I bought within I don't know. They were released fairly 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:14.600 soon in up in Canada, and those two albums started 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:20.040 everything for me, my journey and so to me when 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.240 I listened to it, Like with Richie, I played the 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:24.840 Truth album, which he wasn't familiar with. He didn't know 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:28.280 he he didn't know Truth. He now lives up in One, 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:32.359 but he didn't know Truth. So you know, when he 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:37.400 heard Truth, he went, well, what the fuck? He did 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:40.760 not know that? And the tones and everything, do you 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:46.480 know what I mean? Yeah, so you can imagine, you know, 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:51.520 Like you know, sometimes people try and make contemporary contemporary 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:56.000 records and I get that, but like um, like for instance, 0:23:56.080 --> 0:24:01.680 the Sambora album, we were just two teenagers leaning on 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:05.920 all those guys that we love, you know, and going back. 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:10.000 But it sounds modern and it's just those influences. Is 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:13.080 so would Jimmy to answer the question with Jimmy Page, 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:16.960 I just go, Jimmy, Let's start with the blues. He 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:22.400 was like the man. He made the blues sound different. 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.560 You know. Okay, I'm gonna put a question you're not 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:30.240 gonna answer. Of the three, well, let's put it this way. 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:38.240 Greatest rock guitarist of all time. Oh that's that's so mean, 0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:42.800 Bob um Well. I would say I would say that 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.280 both Clapton and Paige because I was there actually when 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.159 Monta got Uh in the Rock and Roll Hall of 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.240 Fame and Jimmy Page put Jeff Beck in the Hall 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.679 of Fame, and he said that Jimmy Page is the 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:59.399 best guitar player in the world period, and Clapton has 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:01.639 said the same, And so I would say I would 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:05.800 go back because everybody I know Back is pretty much 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.880 the guy in terms of the standard, you know, Key 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:11.880 Scott of Brian Adams Fame, etcetera. We went and saw 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.320 Jeff back and you could just we were just like teenagers. 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:17.560 And I was sitting with Robbie Craiger to the three 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:19.200 of us, and we were watching Jeff Beck and we're 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:23.560 just going like, what did he just do? Do you know? Still? 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:27.640 You know, still he's still the guy that shocks all 0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:30.480 of us? I agree totally. You know, when people talk 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:32.560 to you. I remember they had the arms concerts in 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:38.480 the Ronnie Lean Muscular Ms shows and the three of 0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:41.720 them were all on stage clapped in back. And that 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:46.600 was when Page was working Uh in the firm and 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:48.760 Beck just blew him away. I mean I talked to 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:50.480 Beck once and they say, never missed a note. You know, 0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:52.919 he said, oh I missed a note. But it's like 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:56.240 Beck doesn't write the way Page doesn't, doesn't produce whatever. 0:25:56.280 --> 0:26:01.000 But in terms of sheer playing, it's unbelievable. Yeah, A 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:03.399 a big moment for both Keith Scott and I. We 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:05.680 were both at the Queeney Theater in Vancouver when the 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.920 Blow By Blow tour came through Vancouver. I saw that 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:12.280 and just like, well, not Key so much, but me, 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:16.480 I just wanted to give up because what I mean, 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:21.560 what he's like so connected. Anyway, So there's your answer. 0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:26.840 I picked back because I think Gilmore, Page Clapton everybody 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:30.520 would say the same thing along with Key Scott. Okay, 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:33.119 let's go back to the beginning. So you're from Vancouver 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:40.440 originally born in Winnipeg and Okay, and how many generations 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:42.880 have your parents been in your family been in Canada? 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:51.200 I would say just two. My parents parents were My 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:54.280 mom's side was Icelandic my middle name is Jens and 0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:59.760 my father's side is Irish English from Birmingham and Belfast. 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:06.280 On my dad's side, how did they end up in Winnipeg. Um, well, 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:10.160 they immigrated to Canada as the Astec. As a matter 0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:14.080 of fact, a huge Icelandic community moved to Winnipeg in 0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:18.480 the uh after the I guess after the First World War. 0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:22.880 They immigrated to get out of Iceland. Uh. And it's 0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:25.200 kind of a funny story because they didn't realize how 0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:27.159 cold it was in Winnipeg. It was actually colder in 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:33.080 Winnipeg than it was in Iceland anyway. But yeah, how 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:38.119 long did you live in Winnipeg? Tell about sixty eight? Okay, 0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:41.359 so you grew up in Winnipeg. I grew up in Winnipeg. 0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:44.680 My team, the start of the start of my musical 0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:49.919 thing was in Winnipeg. And uh yeah, I mean it 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.879 was the Stones on TV on Ed Sullivan and the 0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:56.960 Beatles and the Monkeys, and just like that whole thing 0:27:57.080 --> 0:28:01.000 for me was great. Actually, my mom drove me to 0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:04.520 the airport with my sisters in her Volkswagen and we 0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:07.120 saw the Beatles get off the plane going to New 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.560 York on the first tour. They came out and waved. 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:13.960 She drove us to the airport because her girlfriend worked 0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:16.080 at Air Canada. So we went and we saw the 0:28:16.119 --> 0:28:21.000 beatles waving. That's like a standing meawhile, that's quite a 0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:24.000 supportive mother. My mother wouldn't have driven me to Kennedy 0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:27.760 Airport or Idle Wild. It was called Yeah, no, she was. 0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:30.680 She was into it. She was into it. I told 0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:33.600 that to Paul too. He thought it was funny. Did 0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:37.440 he remember waving in Winnipeg? He remembers getting off the 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:40.520 plane because that was that was where they landed. They 0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:43.440 had to stop there for fuel right to get to 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:45.680 New York. They couldn't get to New York they went 0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:49.320 over the pole right, so they stopped in Winnipeg. So 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.560 he remembers getting off the plane. He didn't remember me though. 0:28:54.920 --> 0:28:58.080 So what'd your father do for a living in Winnipeg? 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:02.080 It was an insurance salesman in the insurance business. And 0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:07.720 your mother homemaker or worked outside the homemaker. How many 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:11.760 kids in the family. I have two sisters, And where 0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:15.920 are you in the hierarchy? I'm middle. I have an 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:20.200 older sister, really, but that's just like me actually, I'm 0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:27.320 the middle whatever. So okay, how do you uh discover music? Well, 0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:29.360 it had a lot to do with my older sister, Sue. 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:33.719 You know, she actually saw the stones in Winnipeg with 0:29:33.800 --> 0:29:40.400 Brian Jones. Can you imagine? No, I can't imagine. Yeah, 0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:43.719 she saw them there. Yeah, so it was funny because 0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:46.800 she brought music in, you know, and she liked the Beatles, 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.040 So I immediately like the Stones, right because I had 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:53.040 to be different the animals and Dave Clark five, and 0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:56.680 she loved Beatles anyway, so she brought music in there. 0:29:56.800 --> 0:30:01.600 And then my dad actually got me guitar lessons, uh, 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:05.160 and that started my journey. And of course the guests 0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:08.040 who were on TV. I was telling this to not 0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:10.560 to drop names, but Van Morrison because he asked me 0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:12.760 the same thing, where are you from? And I was 0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:16.560 saying I was saying that the guests who were big 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.480 rock stars to me because they played all the hits 0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:22.240 every week on a TV show, like they would just 0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:25.560 recreate the hits, right, and so they were so big 0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:29.280 to me, you know, the guests who Okay, did you 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:32.440 want guitar lessons because you saw the Beatles on TV? 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:35.160 Or did it predate that or what was the inspiration 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:40.520 guitar lessons were? Basically it was Keith Richards, Make no mistake. 0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:45.320 I singled him out right away, you know when I 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:47.920 saw him. I went, I don't know what's going on there, 0:30:47.960 --> 0:30:51.440 but I like it. So I've always wanted to be that. 0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:55.480 You know, well, his sounds are not that easy to 0:30:55.520 --> 0:30:59.760 figure out either, the way does the tunings, etcetera. No, 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:03.040 but when you know, you know, when you know it, 0:31:03.040 --> 0:31:05.760 it's it's something else. And what's so great about it 0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:08.480 it's signature. Nobody can put that on a record without 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:12.040 going that's Keith richards thing, right, That's an amazing thing 0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:17.000 that it's so signature his thing. Yeah. I tried all 0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:21.400 the time and it never works. Okay, So you're taking 0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:24.480 guitar lessons, you start with an electric guitar or an acoustic. 0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:29.680 I had an acoustic at first, but I went to 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:31.680 electric right away. I wanted to know how to play 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:34.200 an electric guitar. I wanted it to be loud, you know, 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.840 and that's you know once right in the beginning, though, 0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:42.880 I was always into the sounds you know of those records. 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:47.600 That's that's what is that is kind of that whole 0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:51.320 line for me. It's always about the sonics and why 0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:55.960 does that sound like that? Like? Uh, and so electric 0:31:55.960 --> 0:32:00.200 guitars where I went, um, Yeah, The big point for 0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:05.400 me was actually we moved to Victoria out on the 0:32:05.400 --> 0:32:09.240 West coast, and I guess sixty eight, Okay, So I 0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:11.840 left school and I left all my friends in Winnipeg 0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:14.720 in that whole scene, and moved out to Victoria. Knew 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:19.040 nobody right, I was playing hockey, blah blah blah. There 0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:21.280 was kind of no hockey out there. You had to 0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:23.920 pay to play hockey, so hockey went. So I was 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:27.480 alone and I didn't have friends for like a couple 0:32:27.480 --> 0:32:30.080 of years. It was really tough. It was a tough move, 0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:32.360 you know. I hated my dad for it, but it 0:32:32.520 --> 0:32:35.040 ended up being the best thing that ever happened because 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:37.240 all I did was play guitar and listened to records. 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:42.040 You know. That's a great lesson that some of those 0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:44.760 things that hurt so much end up being the thing 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.400 that changes your life. And that changed my life. As 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:51.600 I've come to realize that begs the question, did you 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:54.240 have a lot of records? Did you have a good stereo. 0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:57.640 I wouldn't say it was a good stereo, but we 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:00.360 had a stereo in the house, you know, as my 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.960 parents love music, you know, and my sister had it. 0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:07.080 So we bought as many records. I bought singles. Of course, 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:10.000 everybody about singles, right, you know, because that's all you 0:33:10.040 --> 0:33:12.880 could really afford. Albums were kind of like a little 0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:17.040 bit more money. You know, had lots of singles. So 0:33:17.160 --> 0:33:22.080 when did you form your first band? In Victoria? We 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:24.640 were kind of like a doors cover band because we 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:27.640 couldn't play led Zeppelin doors. It was a little easier 0:33:27.760 --> 0:33:31.520 except for the solos. And how did that come together? 0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:33.960 Are you like the business guy or how did you 0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:37.200 find the other members in the band? Well, we were 0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:40.600 all guys in school together, you know, so we we 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:45.840 were called the Wine, which is horrible, horrible with y. 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:49.680 It was just a horrible name. Um. But anyway, um, 0:33:49.720 --> 0:33:52.880 you know when we started, we played the the Sawcops 0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:56.320 in school and did covers and we started getting blues 0:33:56.400 --> 0:34:02.000 and stuff. Yeah, so I had many bands and really 0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:06.920 until I moved in Victoria to another place in Lankford. 0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:10.880 That's when I met the guy that I really started 0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:13.200 to hit it off with, a guy named Paul Hyde. 0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:16.920 And it was like grade ten and he was from England. 0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:19.440 So to me that was a guy that you know, 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.040 I had to know. He showed up at the bus stop, 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:24.279 he had his head shaved and I thought he was 0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:27.360 a skinhead, so I thought, this guy gotta meet. We 0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:30.520 ended up meeting, and oddly enough we just had the 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:35.960 same love of English blues, in English music and just music, 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.840 and that's when really connected. And we had a band, 0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.840 and we had a blues band because blues was was 0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:47.920 a big thing in Victoria. So, so how long did 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:52.799 you take lessons for? Are you self taught? I took 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.080 lessons to learn how to play, and then it was 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:59.680 self taught and you didn't have I just listened to records, 0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:05.880 you know. Can you read music today? No? Okay? So 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:08.840 you get together with Paul Hyde. At what point do 0:35:08.920 --> 0:35:11.480 you say this is what I want to do as 0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:17.200 a career. If you even say that, well, we kind 0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:20.080 of decided. The thing was I went to England when 0:35:20.120 --> 0:35:22.359 I was eighteen. As soon as I finished school, Paul 0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:25.520 and I and the drummer that we had, Billy, we 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:28.040 went to England to be rock stars. We saved money 0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:30.600 working in restaurants. I had a guitar. We went to 0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:37.960 England and we lasted six months, okay um, and came back. Uh. 0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:41.480 But we were I knew it like the last the 0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:45.359 last year's school. Basically, I don't think I went. As 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:47.080 a matter of fact, I know I didn't win. Go 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:49.840 I should say. All I did was go to Paul's 0:35:49.840 --> 0:35:52.640 house and we just play music. So I knew what 0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:55.200 I was supposed to do. And your parents were cool 0:35:55.239 --> 0:36:00.880 with this, No, they weren't, not whatsoever, my dad particularly. Yeah. 0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:04.400 The greatest thing though that happened. I actually graduated. I 0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:07.680 had a graduation. Okay, this is the greatest thing in 0:36:07.760 --> 0:36:10.560 Canada is that you don't get your marks until after 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:14.960 you graduate. So everybody goes through the graduation. So I 0:36:15.000 --> 0:36:18.080 went through graduation, didn't get a diploma. And my dad, 0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:20.600 till the day he died, said, did you get your 0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:28.160 marks yet? Bob? I never got He knew, right, but yeah, anyway, 0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:31.319 so he he wasn't keen on the musical thing. But 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:35.680 there you go. So you come back from England and 0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:40.560 where's the act? Then? Well what happened is I ended 0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:45.560 up getting jobs working in mills, slaughter houses, cardboard box factory, 0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:49.239 doing all sorts of stuff and playing music. But I 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:55.640 ended up hearing this advertisement on the radio ah and 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:58.560 saying that there was this course offered in Vancouver for 0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:04.400 six weeks one you know, Saturday, for six weeks, uh, 0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:07.560 and I asked my parents if they would give me 0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:09.960 the money to do it. So it was basically I 0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:12.759 went over to Vancouver six saturdays in a row and 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:18.960 I learned basic engineering okay, And because of that, what 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:25.840 happened there? Um, the guy that was teaching the course, uh, 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:28.799 offered me a job at a little mountain. You know, 0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:33.080 I was the guide. I wait, wait, how many kids 0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:36.160 were in the class and how come you got the job? Well, 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:38.160 I'll tell you why I got the job. I was 0:37:38.239 --> 0:37:41.280 the only one that wasn't scared to make a mistake. 0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:43.759 Every time he said who wants to try? And it 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:47.080 was always I'll do it, even though I didn't know 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:49.800 what I was doing. But I got the job because 0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:52.640 I was the only guy that would say, I don't 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:54.719 care what if I make a mistake. I just want 0:37:54.719 --> 0:37:57.399 to do it. That's why I got my job, which 0:37:57.440 --> 0:38:01.200 started my entire career. So it's a very good lesson 0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:05.280 just put yourself out there. Okay. So you immediately moved 0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:08.320 to Vancouver and you start working a little mountain I suppose. 0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:10.759 And where does that Where does that leave you as 0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:14.920 a player with Paul Hodg Well, he went off, he 0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:17.759 stayed in England and moved to Toronto, and then he 0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:21.120 ended up in Vancouver. When I started at a little 0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:26.840 mountain and right then punk music came happened, okay, in 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:29.000 the late seventies. I started at a little mountain in 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:35.840 seventy six, okay, and about seventy eight we started, Uh, 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:38.400 we were playing and stuff. But then when punk broke 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:43.439 um and it's kind of an interesting thing looking back 0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:47.000 at it. What happened is looking back at it when 0:38:47.000 --> 0:38:51.560 I look back, and the punk documentary that Vervados Niggy 0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:55.759 Pop did is an excellent documentary and it shows exactly 0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:59.840 kind of what happened. A lot of people in that scene. 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:03.200 We weren't allowed to be playing clubs and stuff because 0:39:03.200 --> 0:39:06.360 we weren't that good, right, But all of a sudden, 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:10.920 with punk, we could play clubs, right because we only 0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:14.360 knew three chords and played fast and loud, and actually 0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:16.800 we could make records. Well. I worked at a studio, 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:22.600 so Paul and I started to write songs and that's 0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:25.000 how we learned how to I learned how to put 0:39:25.040 --> 0:39:29.399 it together. Okay. So that was punk music gave us 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:31.640 that foot in the door we didn't want. We weren't 0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:35.040 into anarchy or anything. We just wanted to make records 0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:38.320 and punk music allowed us to learn how to make records. 0:39:39.000 --> 0:39:42.200 So the first song we wrote, China Boys, we put 0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:45.560 it out a thousand copies. We got signed to I R. 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:49.680 S Records on one song. We got signed on the 0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:53.960 first song we wrote, I'm not kidding you. Ok, how 0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:59.560 did that happen? Well, this guy somebody, because we sold 0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:02.520 the foul and and it it became kind of a 0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.600 hit in the Vancouver scene, and then everybody heard it 0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:08.680 in Toronto, so A and M. This guy Michael got in. 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:12.560 He signed us for an EP and he said do 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:14.239 you have any more songs? And we said, yeah, we 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:17.359 got lots. We had nothing. As soon as we left 0:40:17.360 --> 0:40:19.879 the meeting, we wrote songs. We wrote four more songs 0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:22.440 and put out an EP and that did kind of 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:25.200 okay in Canada, and so we got an album deal 0:40:25.239 --> 0:40:28.640 with with I R. S. J. Boberg. He signed us 0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.239 and R. E. M at the same time. The same 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:35.680 week he signed us, it was then called the Paolas. Yes, 0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:42.040 worst name ever. So what's the story of the name. Well, 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:44.920 we thought we thought it was really kind of funny, 0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:48.880 poking at the Payola scandal, right we thought that was 0:40:49.000 --> 0:40:54.320 very punk. Right. There's this famous uh radio guy, Charlie Minor. 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:58.879 You probably heard of him, right, And he said yeah, 0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:00.600 and I do. We know him really well. And he 0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:03.520 said to us one day, he says, you know, guys, 0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:06.680 I love your music, but your name. I can never 0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:09.759 do anything to help you because that is just an 0:41:09.800 --> 0:41:12.760 insult to what I do. Let's go have some dinner. 0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:16.840 And he says that dollar signed at the end is 0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:20.240 such an insult. Anyway, I saw him two days before 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:24.759 he was shot. It was very weird, but okay, you 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:26.520 have the peel those what do you do for the 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:29.640 rest of the band were just fine players. We made 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:33.680 our first album. We actually asked, uh, we're big fan 0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:36.360 Bowie fans, and Mick Ronson was the guy that we 0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:39.200 wanted to produce our first record. We sent him all 0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:41.319 the demos and we didn't hear back, so I ended 0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:43.480 up just doing it myself, which was a big mistake, 0:41:43.960 --> 0:41:49.400 you know. But what was great is Mick Ronson phone 0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:53.760 back nine months later and says, I really like your demos. 0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:56.920 There was actually the demos for the first album, and 0:41:56.960 --> 0:41:59.480 we had already started writing for the second album, so 0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:03.160 he actually league came to Vancouver and he produced our 0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:12.960 Second Experience or Bad Experience with Ronson. Yeah, Oh, Mick 0:42:13.040 --> 0:42:17.759 Ronson is the biggest influence on my production and as 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:23.880 a musician period. You know, working with him changed everything. 0:42:24.239 --> 0:42:26.800 He was such he did two albums with us and 0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:29.440 actually toured with us. But I'll tell you the best 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:32.000 thing I can tell you. Mc Ron's story is so 0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:33.960 Eyes of a Stranger. I told you about buying the 0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:37.000 drum machine, blah blah blah blah, and I actually recorded 0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:39.880 the whole track as a demo. So he comes in 0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:41.920 and he listens to all the song and he's saying, Okay, 0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:44.279 we've gotta do this, so this is great. I play 0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:46.239 him the track of Eyes of a Stranger with Paul 0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:48.800 with the rib vocal. He goes, we're not going to 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:50.920 get better than that, so let's keep that track. I'm 0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:54.759 just gonna overdub some keyboards. In other words, he just 0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:58.600 he didn't have to rerecord it. He just said, that's great. 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:01.480 So we did an at it to fix it. He 0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:04.480 put keyboards on it. I mixed it at the power station, 0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:07.760 and it's our biggest song that taught me a lesson. 0:43:08.280 --> 0:43:10.800 It's like he didn't have to change anything. He heard 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:13.399 that it was good by itself and that a lot 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:16.040 of people don't do that. Most people would just go like, well, 0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:18.520 we got to re record it. He went, no, that's great. 0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.520 That's just a simple story about him. I could tell you. 0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:25.200 We could talk for hours about him. Well, give me 0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:29.120 one more story. Well, he he taught us. He taught 0:43:29.200 --> 0:43:31.799 us like, there was a couple of songs where you know, 0:43:31.920 --> 0:43:35.439 he would say, this is a great song, but let's 0:43:35.440 --> 0:43:37.799 see if we can find the home for the song, 0:43:37.840 --> 0:43:39.319 and we're going like, what do you mean the home? 0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:42.360 In other words, he heard the song, but it wasn't 0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:44.560 done the right way. So we had this great song. 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:47.239 I was really into Darkness on the Edge of Town, 0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:51.040 the Springsteen song, so I basically mimic kind of that feel. 0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:55.480 And he said it's a little kind of hard, and 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:58.000 he said the lyric isn't like that. So he ended 0:43:58.080 --> 0:44:02.640 up playing a piano part and we did this. It's 0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:05.800 called Hastings Street. It's about the skid row in Vancouver, 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:09.360 and he changed it and it went to a place 0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:12.040 that is beautiful and it's an incredible song and a 0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:15.719 credible track. So he taught that to us that no 0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:18.719 matter what you do, and I still believe this is 0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:22.880 whatever you need. Inspiration was to write a song, write it, 0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:26.000 and then you find the home. A lot of people 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:29.000 get stuck where they write that demo and there it's precious. 0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:31.759 They don't want to change it. But sometimes there's a 0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:35.080 song there, but it's just not done right. So he 0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:38.480 showed me that. But the greatest thing I'll tell you 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:42.279 we we did a tour after the second album we 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:44.680 did with them, and we didn't have a keyboard player, 0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:47.480 and we had a tour to open up for Split 0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:52.440 Ends in Canada, the whole Canadian tour um and he says, well, 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:56.080 I'll play keyboards for you, And so he came on 0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:58.560 the whole tour with us. And the first night we 0:44:58.560 --> 0:45:00.640 were playing in Victoria and sound check can Split Ends 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:02.120 around the side of the stage and they're going like 0:45:02.880 --> 0:45:09.359 is that So he was, Yeah, he did the whole 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:18.000 tour with us. That's the kind of guy he was. Okay, 0:45:18.000 --> 0:45:20.960 that makes a question. I mean, everything's changed today, but 0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:26.560 prior to this decimation of recording royalties and budgets, are 0:45:26.560 --> 0:45:29.520 you the type of guy? You know? The Stones legendarily 0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:32.040 rode in the studio. So you're the kind of producer 0:45:32.040 --> 0:45:34.359 where you want the material firsture, you want to work 0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:39.319 in pre production or every act is different. I think 0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:41.759 every act is different, you know, the whole thing of 0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:47.000 writing in the studio. Uh, it's a luxury. Always has 0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:51.640 been a luxury, you know, the best thing. You know, Like, 0:45:51.719 --> 0:45:56.360 for instance, it was everything I've done I learned because 0:45:56.400 --> 0:46:00.560 of Bruce Fairburn and because of you know, how he worked. 0:46:00.600 --> 0:46:02.560 I learned the fact that you do pre production. Pre 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:05.960 production is key no matter what. All the all the 0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:08.680 album albums that I've done has always been that, or 0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:11.520 there's a demo to go from. Some people do demos 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:13.880 and then you can just go from there. But for 0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:16.440 the most part, you always want to do pre production 0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:19.719 before you go into the studio. And what is your 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:25.600 pre production look like? Well, it's changed because everybody, like 0:46:25.640 --> 0:46:28.840 I said, now on computers, people are kind of making demos, 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:31.600 you know, so you can really just work with the 0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:36.120 demo and go from there. Uh. But you know, you 0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:40.360 just you talk. For instance, it's like with bands in particular, 0:46:41.840 --> 0:46:44.879 you know, and it was like with Metallica, they never 0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:46.880 played in the same room when they made a record. 0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:51.160 So to me, I said, but that's how I make records. 0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:54.080 And I explained to him, I said, well, that's because 0:46:54.960 --> 0:46:58.120 you never know if you change the beat in the 0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:01.680 in the verse or something, change it later, you know, 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:04.400 so you've got to get a you gotta get a 0:47:04.480 --> 0:47:08.440 kind of like, uh, you got to get an idea 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:11.319 of what's going on. And you know, the tempo means 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:14.440 so much difference, makes so much difference, like one beat 0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:17.640 to find the pocket where you know, like the Black 0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:21.120 album is a pocket album. All the fields are like 0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:23.880 we worked on it to find the right tempo, and 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:26.959 we stayed there, you know, so that that was it, 0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:31.640 and so we spent time. And that's that's the difference. 0:47:31.719 --> 0:47:34.240 You go in when you know you've got it in shape, 0:47:34.239 --> 0:47:36.880 you've got the arrangement right, and you've looked at what 0:47:36.920 --> 0:47:39.279 the base is doing with the kick. You just go 0:47:39.360 --> 0:47:42.279 through everything. And you do that in the room and 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:45.279 you can just make a cassette with one microphone and 0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:47.799 that's fine to kind of work until you get into 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:52.000 the studio. So that's what we did, you know, and 0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:55.319 I do that. How much reproduction did you do for 0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:59.440 the Black Album? I was probably there for two weeks, 0:48:00.760 --> 0:48:04.680 you know, and we went through every song, and you know, 0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:07.440 they were warming up to me and me warming up 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:10.120 to them. You know. I think the first time we 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:12.880 had lunch, I was in one room and they were 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:16.000 in the other room type thing. By the end we 0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:18.000 were all in the same room. They were you know, 0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:20.480 you know, with a band like that, they were so intense, 0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:25.680 you know, and they were so they had that club, 0:48:25.760 --> 0:48:28.680 the Metallica club that they were in. It was hard 0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:32.280 to get into the club. It took a long time. 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:35.760 And how long did it take to actually record the record? 0:48:37.760 --> 0:48:41.880 Fourteen fifteen months? And how did you get the gig? 0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:46.040 They wanted me to mix the record because they really 0:48:46.080 --> 0:48:50.240 liked the sound of the Motley album. They didn't like Motley, 0:48:50.320 --> 0:48:53.520 but they loved the Doctor Field Good album the sonically 0:48:54.239 --> 0:48:56.640 and they so they came up to see me in 0:48:56.719 --> 0:49:02.760 Vancouver and they brought cassettes of the songs and they played, 0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:05.759 you know, they played the material and it did not 0:49:06.000 --> 0:49:10.480 sound like the Justice album, which I knew. And actually 0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:14.560 just so you know that that just before that, I 0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:19.560 saw Metallica because Sonic Temple, I did the Sonic Temple 0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.719 album and the cult warmed up on this, uh Justice tour, 0:49:24.560 --> 0:49:26.640 so I stayed and watched Metallic and I went, their 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:29.960 records don't sound anything like they sound live. They were 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:34.080 so big and powerful, so I made a mental note. 0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:37.839 Any Anyway, they they said they loved the sound of 0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:42.759 the bigness and the weight of the the Molly Crue album. 0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:44.680 So they came up to Vancouver. You had a meeting, 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:47.640 and when I heard the songs, it's like, you know, 0:49:47.680 --> 0:49:51.440 Saba true was to me was like the Levy Breaks. 0:49:51.480 --> 0:49:54.279 It had that feel. It was there, Sam Man was there, 0:49:54.680 --> 0:49:59.040 all the fields were there, um and so basically we 0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:02.080 started talking and a couple of things happened that we're 0:50:02.120 --> 0:50:06.920 pretty funny. Uh. We had dinner that night and I 0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:08.759 could see that they were looking at the bus boy 0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:12.120 that was looking at the table right. He finally came 0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:15.120 over and he said, excuse me, are you Bob Rock? 0:50:15.200 --> 0:50:18.279 Can I get my your autograph? I didn't ask them 0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:24.120 for and they they thought that was hilarious. They thought 0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:28.080 that was hilarious. So that was breaking the ice. They 0:50:28.200 --> 0:50:31.399 had no idea, the guy had no idea who they were, right, 0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:34.200 but because of the pail is it was. It was 0:50:34.239 --> 0:50:37.319 pretty funny. So there was the moments that basically we 0:50:37.480 --> 0:50:40.200 just talked about music, and that didn't hear from them, 0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:41.960 and all of a sudden they said, come on and 0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:45.440 let's get going. There you go. Did you have any 0:50:45.520 --> 0:50:48.440 idea the album would be an interstand Man would be 0:50:48.480 --> 0:50:53.680 as big as they ultimately were. No, No, not at all. 0:50:54.360 --> 0:50:58.279 When I said conceptualizing albums, I mean really, the thing 0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:01.880 is is what we just saw did It's like, because 0:51:02.200 --> 0:51:04.279 you know, the basic tracks and the fields were there. 0:51:04.320 --> 0:51:07.240 A lot of people think I changed that, and I didn't. 0:51:07.360 --> 0:51:09.800 It was always there. If you listen to the demos 0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:12.799 that have been released, the songs are there. But what 0:51:12.880 --> 0:51:15.520 I did is I changed basically the approach of how 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:21.960 to record. Okay, so um, you know, it took a 0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:25.480 while to get to get going and then it just 0:51:25.520 --> 0:51:28.879 became work, which is like we we decided that we 0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:31.960 weren't going to compromise in any way, shape or form 0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:38.480 on anything. So the drums sound took three weeks. You know, 0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:41.919 the bass sound like James's guitar. We built a room 0:51:42.080 --> 0:51:45.080 specially for to get this sound that you know, I 0:51:45.080 --> 0:51:47.640 couldn't figure out. We built a room to have this 0:51:47.920 --> 0:51:52.000 certain resonance, which is part of the sound. Everything was. 0:51:52.160 --> 0:51:55.680 There was no compromise on what they wanted, and I 0:51:55.760 --> 0:51:57.920 was there as the guy that kind of went, well, 0:51:58.000 --> 0:52:00.399 I know how to sort of do this. Let's worked 0:52:00.440 --> 0:52:03.120 together and do it. So that's I was the guy 0:52:03.239 --> 0:52:06.440 that kind of like helped them learn how to record 0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:11.080 what they wanted because of the experience that I had. 0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:15.399 So you know, uh, that's why it took along, and 0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:20.439 that's that's what we did. So in the end, we're 0:52:20.520 --> 0:52:24.160 so tired of each other that we said we went 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:26.719 and had a bottle of wine. After Randy stab and 0:52:26.840 --> 0:52:29.520 James and Lars we finished mastering and we're just like, 0:52:30.160 --> 0:52:33.560 it's been fun, don't call me, never want to see 0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:36.680 you again. And we all walked our separate ways, you know. 0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:40.520 And all of a sudden, I was playing my band 0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:42.799 was playing at Club Soda and Vancouver. It came on. 0:52:42.880 --> 0:52:48.080 I went, wow, people kind of like this. Who knew? Okay? 0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:54.080 So how did uh peale Is morph into rock and Hide? Well, 0:52:54.120 --> 0:52:58.320 we did a record that wasn't us that the record 0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:01.160 company made us use a producer that we really didn't 0:53:01.160 --> 0:53:03.400 want to use. I'm not going to name names, but 0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:07.760 and it kind of ruined the band. And so Paul 0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:11.000 and I, who basically wrote all the songs and did 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:14.359 it pretty much everything. We reformed it and we got 0:53:14.400 --> 0:53:17.600 signed to E M I in England for Rock and Hide, 0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:21.359 so it just became the two of us. Yeah, and 0:53:21.400 --> 0:53:22.880 we kind of used some of the guys in the 0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:27.520 Palis as the band. Yeah. So tell me about morphing 0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:31.680 from being a player to being a studio guy. The 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:33.880 thing with the Pale is in my career as a 0:53:33.920 --> 0:53:37.320 writer and a guitar player kind of were was running 0:53:37.320 --> 0:53:42.680 parallel with learning how to make records. So and what 0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:47.560 I realized and and it just to go back with 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:50.480 all the guys that I loved, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton 0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:54.600 and Jimmy Page, I could never play like them. So 0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:58.680 I found this guy that wasn't like that him and 0:53:58.760 --> 0:54:02.200 his name was Pete town It. And Pete Townsend was 0:54:02.200 --> 0:54:09.520 a songwriter and he played rhythm guitar that I just 0:54:09.560 --> 0:54:12.000 got chivers talking about it because I've met and I 0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:16.160 told him that changed everything for me because I realized 0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:18.800 I didn't have to be a ship hot lead player. 0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:24.680 I just had to play rhythm like Pete Townsend. Okay, 0:54:24.719 --> 0:54:28.479 So that was the guy that made me decide that 0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:32.640 I was more about the record and writing and sounds 0:54:33.000 --> 0:54:36.640 and being Pete Townsend and Keith Richards who was one 0:54:36.640 --> 0:54:40.040 of the greatest rhythm players as well. Okay does great 0:54:40.080 --> 0:54:43.120 lead work, so does Pete Townsend. But there you know 0:54:43.160 --> 0:54:46.040 what I mean. So that was absolutely Pete was in 0:54:46.120 --> 0:54:48.040 my brain when you were talking about was so funny 0:54:48.040 --> 0:54:53.279 you mentioned it. Yeah, No, that is seeing and you know, 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:57.879 like the Who were just so big for me as well, 0:54:57.920 --> 0:55:00.600 because that's you know it and you know, we started 0:55:00.600 --> 0:55:02.920 with I can see for miles and just like my 0:55:03.000 --> 0:55:06.000 generation and stuff. And I had dinner with Shell. Tell me, 0:55:06.040 --> 0:55:10.239 by the way, that's something I haven't done. No, it 0:55:10.320 --> 0:55:13.279 was I had dinner with him after I did a 0:55:13.320 --> 0:55:15.879 thing at south By Southwest the panel. I only went 0:55:15.960 --> 0:55:18.840 because he was on the panel and and so I 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:21.680 I kind of met him over the video or whatever. 0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:24.360 But this guy, Mike Jacobs set it up and I 0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:27.239 had dinner with him. I just like I was in 0:55:27.360 --> 0:55:31.840 heaven talking about the Who. He had just an amazing guy. Anyway, 0:55:31.960 --> 0:55:34.840 So the Who, what did he tell you about making 0:55:34.880 --> 0:55:40.719 those records? Well, he you know, he said how he 0:55:40.840 --> 0:55:43.840 got the gig, you know, and he said he was 0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:47.400 in he was an engineer in l a. He's American. 0:55:47.840 --> 0:55:50.120 He went to England on holiday and we just went. 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:54.040 He had a friend at Decoration Records in London and 0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:57.400 he and he said, he was just hanging around the 0:55:57.440 --> 0:55:59.920 Decca office and this guy came in with an Asceta 0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:03.720 Ray Davies and he had an ascetate which is basically 0:56:03.719 --> 0:56:07.360 a demo, and nobody wanted to hear it, so he said, 0:56:08.280 --> 0:56:10.319 I'll listen to it. He listened to it and he says, 0:56:10.600 --> 0:56:13.160 I want to record you. That's how he got the 0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:20.279 Kinks gig by being there, just by luck. He recorded 0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:24.839 that Pete Townsend heard you know, you really got me. 0:56:25.920 --> 0:56:29.640 I want Shell tell me? And Shell tell Me changed 0:56:29.680 --> 0:56:32.759 the way the who recorded because Shell, being American, he 0:56:32.840 --> 0:56:36.800 used multiple mics okay, and most of the English engineers 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:39.640 were using just three or four mikes on drums. Shell 0:56:39.719 --> 0:56:42.319 tell Me set up all these mics with Keith moon 0:56:42.800 --> 0:56:45.080 and on the guitar and they were in heaven and 0:56:45.120 --> 0:56:49.160 that's my generation and I'm going like, I was just 0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:55.640 like this is amazing. Yeah, you know, and we just 0:56:55.719 --> 0:56:58.680 had the greatest time talking about you know, because his 0:56:58.800 --> 0:57:02.279 career just lasted too. I think Waterloo Sunset with the 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:05.120 Kinks or whatever, and then they moved on. But his 0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:09.400 career and what he did for kind of rock music 0:57:10.520 --> 0:57:14.680 is just unbelievable, the impact he had with that kind 0:57:14.680 --> 0:57:17.600 of recording, etcetera. All on the fact that he went 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:21.480 to England for a vacation, he stayed in London. An 0:57:21.480 --> 0:57:25.160 American guy. So going back to your career, how do 0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:28.600 you decide to go get off the stage and switch 0:57:28.680 --> 0:57:35.680 sides in the studio Bruce Allen. Bruce Allen managed the 0:57:35.680 --> 0:57:40.240 Paolas and and Bruce says, because I was the engineer 0:57:40.280 --> 0:57:45.400 with Loverboy and Prism, I've I knew Bruce like America. 0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:48.320 The day I got my job at Little Mountain, was 0:57:48.440 --> 0:57:52.120 sitting in the waiting room and all of a sudden 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:56.600 the doors December six six the door swung open and 0:57:56.640 --> 0:58:00.200 this guy with a full length for coat, Oh, open 0:58:00.280 --> 0:58:03.400 the door and just like walk by me and beat 0:58:03.520 --> 0:58:06.600 ore in the studio and I went to the reception 0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:10.320 who's that And she said that's Bruce Allen and I 0:58:10.360 --> 0:58:15.640 went and it never That guy ended up managing me 0:58:16.920 --> 0:58:21.640 and he's my closest friend to this day. That's over 0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.520 forty years Bruce Allen has been in my life. But 0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:27.360 Bruce told me I did a rock and high gig 0:58:27.400 --> 0:58:31.400 at the tour and he said rock. He says, you 0:58:31.520 --> 0:58:37.360 gotta stop doing this. Okay, you're a producer. You're you're 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:39.880 a producer. You've got to be a producer. Let me 0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:43.480 manage you as a producer. And he says, I'm not 0:58:43.520 --> 0:58:45.640 going to tell him. I'll tell you what he said. Yes, 0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:47.440 I will tell you said. He says, you got to 0:58:47.480 --> 0:58:50.120 lose the dumb broths and you got to just listen 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:54.200 to me, and you're gonna make some money. And actually 0:58:56.000 --> 0:58:58.320 the thing he that he did, the first thing he did, 0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:02.400 I had met my wife just after that, Angie, So 0:59:02.480 --> 0:59:04.880 I lost the dumb broads and got a great woman. 0:59:05.720 --> 0:59:10.120 She actually she got me. But uh. And then Bruce 0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:15.479 Um with Slippery when wet Um Bruce Fevern had a deal. 0:59:15.680 --> 0:59:19.560 He said, just before that, we've done Honeymoon Sweet. He says, 0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:21.200 the next record, you're going to get a point on 0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:24.440 the record. The next record was Slippery. He didn't give 0:59:24.480 --> 0:59:29.920 me the point. Okay, okay, the next So the next 0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:36.840 record I did was Aerosmith Permanent Vacation, and I was 0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:39.600 making for Slippery. I made ten thousand Canadian, which is 0:59:40.560 --> 0:59:46.640 American engineers were getting twenty American Okay. So on Permianity Vacation, 0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:49.160 Bruce Feveryon says, we can't afford to give you ten thousand. 0:59:49.320 --> 0:59:53.040 We can only give you eight. And then I went, 0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:58.640 this is not gonna be my future. Okay. So after 0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:01.520 that I went on to I left the Permanent I 1:00:01.520 --> 1:00:05.040 didn't mix the Permanent Vacation record. I was on tour 1:00:05.120 --> 1:00:07.479 with Rock and Hide. I had to go on tour, 1:00:07.800 --> 1:00:10.360 and at the end of that tour, Bruce says, I 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:12.880 told her the story. The next record. I got to 1:00:13.160 --> 1:00:16.040 Dramba Jovi wanted to Bruce Fevert and I to do 1:00:16.120 --> 1:00:21.120 the New Jersey record. Bruce Allen said, Rock ain't doing it. 1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:23.160 John says, but I really want Rock to do it. 1:00:24.080 --> 1:00:28.360 Bruce got me paid the New Jersey album on one 1:00:28.440 --> 1:00:34.040 point on ten million Rockords, ten million records. Cash Angie 1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:38.200 and I about our first house. That's Bruce Allen. Okay. 1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:40.280 I don't know if you could say all that, but 1:00:41.160 --> 1:00:43.720 that is Bruce Allen. He changed my life. And he's 1:00:43.720 --> 1:00:45.960 the guy that said be a producer, that's what you're 1:00:45.960 --> 1:00:51.160 good at, and you know, the rest is history. He's 1:00:51.200 --> 1:00:54.439 the reason why you know Metallica. You know, we had 1:00:54.520 --> 1:00:58.160 Louis made the decision. He helped put that together. You know, 1:00:58.960 --> 1:01:06.160 he's like like said my best friend, and uh yeah huge. Okay, okay, 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:09.920 So but you talked at some point playing club Soda. 1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:12.840 When did you literally stopped playing with the band erws 1:01:12.880 --> 1:01:18.800 that really never died After Rock and Hide, I had 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:20.800 while I was doing the Black album, actually did a 1:01:20.920 --> 1:01:27.240 rock album, Rockhead. And it was because just because I 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:29.880 was in l A a lot and I started writing 1:01:29.960 --> 1:01:33.280 music and for whatever reason, I want to make a 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:35.920 rock album. I didn't want to be like a new 1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:38.680 wave guy. So I made a rock album and I 1:01:38.720 --> 1:01:41.200 was you know, so I made a rock album, and 1:01:41.280 --> 1:01:44.640 so I ended up touring Europe. We opened up for 1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:48.480 bon Jovi. Okay, did European tour, and I realized that 1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:54.000 that I should just produce. I just couldn't deal with 1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:57.320 that anymore. I couldn't deal with because you know, it 1:01:57.400 --> 1:02:00.440 was like, uh, you know, all the US all they 1:02:00.440 --> 1:02:02.439 wanted to talk about what was Metallica because the Black 1:02:02.480 --> 1:02:05.160 Album came out right and I went, this is this 1:02:05.240 --> 1:02:08.320 is just not me. So I ended up making records, 1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:10.280 which I love doing. So there you go. And so 1:02:10.640 --> 1:02:16.360 what did you learn from Bruce Fearburn. I learned Bruce 1:02:16.520 --> 1:02:22.240 is really his pluses were, uh, it took me a 1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:25.160 while to learn. His greatest thing was like he didn't 1:02:25.240 --> 1:02:29.520 really he was never a fan of bands, like in 1:02:29.560 --> 1:02:34.400 other words, he didn't really like to me, Aerosmith walked 1:02:34.400 --> 1:02:36.120 in the room and and it was like I was 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:40.720 a fan. I mean, I was like Joe, Barry, Steven Tyler, 1:02:41.120 --> 1:02:43.720 They're in front of me. I'm in the stud there 1:02:43.720 --> 1:02:45.640 in front of me, and it meant nothing to Bruce. 1:02:46.080 --> 1:02:48.880 They were just a band. So he could say, like, 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:51.120 we're in the middle of a take, and he always 1:02:51.120 --> 1:02:53.440 went for dinner at five o'clock. If we're in the 1:02:53.480 --> 1:02:55.360 middle of the take, he'd say, I'm going for dinner, 1:02:55.360 --> 1:03:01.160 he'd leave. And so that he had control with those guys. Okay, 1:03:01.280 --> 1:03:05.640 he had ultimate control with over Stephen and Joe and 1:03:05.680 --> 1:03:09.920 the band. Okay, that kind of thing. In other words, 1:03:09.960 --> 1:03:12.720 his scheduling was amazing, and he made them work, and 1:03:12.760 --> 1:03:15.640 he made them work hard. That's what he was great. 1:03:15.680 --> 1:03:19.760 And he had this outside because he wasn't. He did 1:03:19.800 --> 1:03:22.400 his homework on Aerosmith and he brought the best parts 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:27.200 to the the project, much like bon Jovi. You know, 1:03:27.960 --> 1:03:30.960 he recognized what we had, this way of working, the 1:03:31.040 --> 1:03:34.959 two of us, and and so he taught me a lot. 1:03:35.320 --> 1:03:37.440 What he taught me is as he actually gave me 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:41.920 my first job. Besides the job at the studio, The 1:03:42.000 --> 1:03:44.560 first guy to believe in me was Bruce Fairburn. He 1:03:44.600 --> 1:03:47.240 asked me to do the Prism album. And he asked 1:03:47.240 --> 1:03:50.840 me because he wanted to change up and he had 1:03:50.880 --> 1:03:52.880 heard this the kind of the punk stuff that I 1:03:52.880 --> 1:03:55.360 had done and it was raw. So he hired me. 1:03:55.440 --> 1:03:58.120 So he gave me a shot. He kind of started 1:03:58.120 --> 1:04:04.960 my career and it was he managed by Bruce in 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:09.360 the end, but he he was prison, was managed by Bruce. 1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:14.520 Bruce Fabrin was in prison, and Jim Valence was in 1:04:14.640 --> 1:04:19.080 prison and in an earlier band that turned into prison. 1:04:19.200 --> 1:04:22.520 So that's why they wrote the songs in the Prism album. 1:04:22.560 --> 1:04:24.760 So it's all tied in. Well, I guess what I'm 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:29.240 asking is if Bruce managed Bruce and you, how come 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:35.160 you couldn't get the point? Uh, he wasn't managing Bruce 1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:40.520 at the time. He managed Bruce later. Okay, so uh 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:42.600 do you know Slippery win Wet is going to be 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:47.840 Slippery Win wet. What do you mean when did we know? 1:04:48.440 --> 1:04:52.840 I mean, you're making that record, an iconic record by far, 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.200 the best bon Jovie record. You know, wanted Dead or Alive? 1:04:56.320 --> 1:04:58.160 First time I heard that, never mind Living on a 1:04:58.200 --> 1:05:00.919 Prayer and you give love a bad Did you say, 1:05:00.960 --> 1:05:05.240 holy fuck, we have something here, Fabride and I. At 1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:07.840 the end of that, we finished, the benches left and 1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:10.480 we were in the control room and we're kind of 1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:13.240 going like, hopefully this is gonna go gold, so we 1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:17.479 get another gig. And we knew and we thought Living 1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:21.080 on a Prayer was probably you never want to say, 1:05:21.120 --> 1:05:23.040 there's this thing. You never want to say that's a hit, 1:05:23.400 --> 1:05:26.880 because it always seems to you never go that way. 1:05:26.960 --> 1:05:29.400 But we knew Leving on a Prayer was really strong. 1:05:30.280 --> 1:05:32.960 But we had no idea. I mean that when that 1:05:33.040 --> 1:05:37.080 was triple platinum in like three months, we had no idea. 1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:43.480 So let's say, uh, you realize you have an eleven 1:05:44.000 --> 1:05:47.880 in a song whatever. If you realize that, whether it 1:05:47.880 --> 1:05:51.360 be in pre production or recording, does that steward away 1:05:51.400 --> 1:05:53.880 from being eleven? What I mean is, do you become 1:05:54.000 --> 1:05:59.240 so self conscious that you can't nail it? Then? No, no, 1:05:59.320 --> 1:06:03.040 not not really because this is the Beauty of Bruce Fabron. 1:06:03.560 --> 1:06:07.080 That was a six week album. Okay, that was there's 1:06:07.200 --> 1:06:12.640 only one guitar track, one keyboard track, all caught live. 1:06:13.800 --> 1:06:16.680 I I mixed it in a week, the whole record, 1:06:17.440 --> 1:06:20.640 you know, and it was like so there was no 1:06:20.720 --> 1:06:23.600 time to even think about it. You you're just I 1:06:23.640 --> 1:06:26.720 was just doing my job. I was learning. You see, 1:06:26.760 --> 1:06:29.280 this is the whole thing all through that we've talked about, 1:06:29.440 --> 1:06:33.920 and there's there's more. I'm still learning, Bob. I'm still 1:06:33.960 --> 1:06:36.760 being schooled. Van Morrison schooled me to death, you know 1:06:36.800 --> 1:06:40.960 when I worked with him. You know, constantly I'm learning, 1:06:41.280 --> 1:06:43.600 And through all of that I was learning. So I 1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:48.000 never ever thought that it was eleven and I'm scared 1:06:48.040 --> 1:06:50.280 to do it. I was just trying to do the best, okay, 1:06:50.320 --> 1:06:53.920 but I was really referring to now when you are 1:06:54.000 --> 1:07:00.479 the producer. Uh so, what do you mean solo king back. 1:07:00.800 --> 1:07:03.000 I'll give you an example of my own life. If 1:07:03.040 --> 1:07:06.600 I'm writing something and I realize it's incredible, it's just 1:07:06.640 --> 1:07:08.800 something fires in my brain, then it ends up not 1:07:08.840 --> 1:07:12.400 being incredible because I'm self conscious. Now the nature of 1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:14.520 writing the way I do it, You're write it it's done. 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.400 A song is a whole thing, usually have pre production, etcetera. 1:07:17.880 --> 1:07:21.280 So do you say, ever when something is really phenomenal, 1:07:22.200 --> 1:07:23.800 you don't want to fuck it up? But are you 1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:34.080 so self conscious that it's hard to get it right? Well? 1:07:34.360 --> 1:07:38.880 As a producer, the thing the thing is is, here's 1:07:39.040 --> 1:07:42.960 I think. What I learned from Bruce Fairburn and just 1:07:43.080 --> 1:07:46.320 making records for a long time is I don't stop 1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:51.480 trying to make something great until the artist says, until 1:07:51.520 --> 1:07:54.920 the artist is happy, not even the record company. If 1:07:54.960 --> 1:07:58.440 the artist says this is the best I can be, 1:07:59.120 --> 1:08:01.720 and I say, this is the best I can be, 1:08:02.400 --> 1:08:04.800 It's done, and I'm okay with it. I mean, I 1:08:04.840 --> 1:08:07.680 can listen to every record I've done, and I know 1:08:07.760 --> 1:08:10.320 all the flaws. I even know all the punches for 1:08:10.400 --> 1:08:13.560 on Slippery that I made. I can still hear the punches. 1:08:13.760 --> 1:08:16.320 I hear all the flaws. But now I listened to 1:08:16.360 --> 1:08:18.960 it as a whole, and I'm going like, as a whole, 1:08:19.000 --> 1:08:21.640 it's great. You can always like it's that thing. As 1:08:21.680 --> 1:08:23.719 I was telling about Dexter and Ritchie with the time 1:08:23.760 --> 1:08:26.960 off they're listening, we can change this. You always think 1:08:27.000 --> 1:08:30.160 you can do better, but realistically it ends up being 1:08:30.160 --> 1:08:32.920 what I said when I said I compared my mix 1:08:33.000 --> 1:08:36.680 to uh, working for a weekend. I'm that guy, and 1:08:36.760 --> 1:08:39.920 this is the way it's going to end up sounding. Okay, 1:08:40.280 --> 1:08:44.519 different band, different kind of species, whatever, uh, different people, 1:08:44.680 --> 1:08:47.080 but it always ends up sounding the way I hear 1:08:47.120 --> 1:08:49.920 it when it. When I go like, this sounds great 1:08:50.960 --> 1:08:53.840 and the artist says this sounds great, We're done. I'm 1:08:53.840 --> 1:08:57.920 okay with it. Whatever happens. Okay, how does the Black 1:08:57.960 --> 1:09:05.160 Album change your life? Well? I live in Hawaii, okay. 1:09:05.160 --> 1:09:09.920 But in terms of offers and things like that, well, 1:09:10.520 --> 1:09:13.000 I mean I got a lot of offers, but I 1:09:13.840 --> 1:09:18.320 kind of win, you see, because I'm a rock guy. 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:22.080 I'm not a highavy metal guy, you know. And that's 1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:26.320 what I think, you know, the perspective, Like in other words, 1:09:27.880 --> 1:09:29.760 if I was a fan of metallic and I was 1:09:29.760 --> 1:09:34.120 a metal guy, wouldn't have been the same. Okay, So 1:09:34.840 --> 1:09:36.800 I got lots of offers. There was a couple of 1:09:36.800 --> 1:09:40.200 things and stuff. But when you do the best and 1:09:40.240 --> 1:09:45.479 the biggest, where do you go? Do you know what 1:09:45.520 --> 1:09:47.519 I mean? That's the way I looked at it, like 1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:53.879 who's And besides, they were demanding and I spent fifteen 1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:57.360 years of my life working with Metallica. So it wasn't 1:09:57.400 --> 1:10:01.360 like I needed more work, you know what I mean 1:10:01.520 --> 1:10:04.639 if you think about was like, if you think about 1:10:04.840 --> 1:10:08.000 like all the stuff that we did for fifteen years, 1:10:08.520 --> 1:10:12.200 I you know, I just did an album a year 1:10:12.320 --> 1:10:15.160 or two as well as a matter of got a 1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:18.880 little worrisome that I wasn't doing anything, you know, outside 1:10:18.880 --> 1:10:21.800 of them, you know, which is why, you know, the 1:10:21.880 --> 1:10:25.680 relationships kind of end. I had to move on and 1:10:25.720 --> 1:10:28.600 do something I just didn't want to say, set up 1:10:28.640 --> 1:10:30.479 the same set of drums, and you know what I mean. 1:10:30.479 --> 1:10:34.680 It gets kind of old, absolutely, but yeah, you know, 1:10:34.800 --> 1:10:37.559 sometimes you just got to move on. Let's go back 1:10:37.640 --> 1:10:41.080 to the lover Boy. The sound on Turn Me Loose, 1:10:41.400 --> 1:10:45.719 that whole record is just unbelievable. What do you remember 1:10:45.720 --> 1:10:50.080 about that experience? It was big, like lover Boy, we're 1:10:50.120 --> 1:10:53.400 the best band in Vancouver, and when we came to 1:10:53.439 --> 1:10:56.200 do the album, I mean, Paul Eaton, the guitar player, 1:10:56.280 --> 1:11:00.960 busted my balls constantly about sonics. But I learned so 1:11:01.080 --> 1:11:03.800 much about because he walked in and he had the 1:11:03.840 --> 1:11:07.520 guitar that he put together himself. He had this amplifier. 1:11:07.960 --> 1:11:12.000 This is his speaker. This is my sound recorded, do 1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:14.960 you know what I mean? Nobody before that had ever 1:11:15.040 --> 1:11:17.479 had that, like, this is my sound, just like Brian 1:11:17.520 --> 1:11:19.680 May has a sound, Jimmy Page has a sound, you 1:11:19.720 --> 1:11:21.400 know what I mean. He was the first guy that 1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:25.000 really ever put that in my head, and he had 1:11:25.040 --> 1:11:28.800 ideas about how to do that, so he pushed me. 1:11:29.360 --> 1:11:32.439 And everything I've done, Bob, is because the people like 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:35.759 the sound of the drums on Motley Crue, the sounds 1:11:35.760 --> 1:11:39.920 on Metallica. Those guys pushed me. And when everything I've 1:11:39.920 --> 1:11:42.479 done that's good is when guys push me, they make 1:11:42.520 --> 1:11:44.479 me out of get me out of my comfortable zone 1:11:44.640 --> 1:11:47.840 and make me work. Paul Dene made me work. And 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:52.640 a funny thing, really funny about teremy loose, right, so 1:11:52.720 --> 1:11:55.160 turn me loose. He he kept referring to the Pat 1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:58.720 Banatar album that Mike Chapman had done, right, going like, 1:11:58.760 --> 1:12:00.720 we gotta sound like this. We got a sounding like that, 1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:03.160 you know, and I'm just doing my best to get 1:12:03.200 --> 1:12:07.840 it sound as great as as I possibly could. And um, 1:12:08.520 --> 1:12:13.240 years later, I did a this band called Spider Okay, 1:12:13.280 --> 1:12:16.960 and and tok Fig was in the band Okay and 1:12:17.120 --> 1:12:20.439 he uh, he was working with Mike Chapman and the 1:12:20.479 --> 1:12:23.280 band when they recorded they had the first lover Boy 1:12:23.320 --> 1:12:27.720 album and they were busting the engineer's bolts sound. So 1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:31.519 that's what I mean about that time, Like the competition thing. 1:12:31.840 --> 1:12:34.479 It's like I was trying to get what they were 1:12:34.479 --> 1:12:36.639 doing and they were trying to get what I had done. 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:39.200 It's kind of funny. How did you get the gig 1:12:39.240 --> 1:12:43.719 with Motley Crue? Basically, DC McGhee, it was the records 1:12:43.760 --> 1:12:48.639 that I had done, like the Kingdom Come album, the 1:12:48.680 --> 1:12:52.040 Sonic Temple album. The bands heard that and kind of 1:12:52.120 --> 1:12:55.080 in DC McGhee said, you know, working with bon Jovi. 1:12:55.840 --> 1:12:57.840 You know, he just said you should have a meeting. 1:12:57.920 --> 1:12:59.400 So I took a meeting. And when I took a 1:12:59.400 --> 1:13:02.599 meeting with him, I was at Tommy's house and they're 1:13:02.640 --> 1:13:08.439 all sober, you know, and this that's that was my 1:13:08.439 --> 1:13:11.360 momlot crew thing, and you know, and I basically did 1:13:11.400 --> 1:13:14.880 what I said. We did pre production and we worked 1:13:14.920 --> 1:13:16.880 hard a pre production and then we went to Vancouver. 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:19.519 I said, I recorded a little mountain, and they knew 1:13:19.520 --> 1:13:21.760 about a little mountain, so we didn't have a problem there. 1:13:22.840 --> 1:13:25.639 And we just worked hard and I had a sober 1:13:25.640 --> 1:13:28.680 band to the end. Well, you know it was a 1:13:28.760 --> 1:13:31.919 huge step forward for them. So you keep mentioning Van Morrison, 1:13:31.920 --> 1:13:34.240 how did you give that gig and what was that experience? Like? 1:13:34.960 --> 1:13:38.320 He did a duets album and Michael Booble. He asked 1:13:38.320 --> 1:13:41.360 Michael to do a duet with him, so he did Real, 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:43.760 Real Gone and we did a track. We recorded his 1:13:43.800 --> 1:13:48.320 band in Birmingham live, so uh, I recorded Michael and 1:13:48.320 --> 1:13:50.840 I had to go record Fans Vocal, so I went 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:53.160 to his session. He was already working on the duets 1:13:53.200 --> 1:13:56.600 thing and I spent the day and oddly enough I 1:13:56.640 --> 1:13:59.880 didn't record Fans Vocal because they did this trick. They said, Bob, 1:14:00.000 --> 1:14:01.400 why don't you go for lunch Van, I'll be here 1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:04.519 in an hour. Well I left, Van came in, sang 1:14:04.520 --> 1:14:07.160 the vocal, and I got back and they already done it. Anyway, 1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:09.920 I ended up spending the day and we talked and 1:14:09.960 --> 1:14:12.479 then he heard the mix that I did, so he 1:14:12.600 --> 1:14:15.439 phoned me and he said would you come to England 1:14:15.520 --> 1:14:20.200 and mixed the rest of the record, and I went yeah, 1:14:20.360 --> 1:14:23.000 and he ended up. I ended up doing a song 1:14:23.080 --> 1:14:26.200 with George Benson. We caught a song I produced it 1:14:26.240 --> 1:14:31.200 with Van and I mixed the whole record, and I 1:14:31.240 --> 1:14:36.320 mean recording the song that I did with George Benson 1:14:36.400 --> 1:14:39.920 and him. He schooled me like he's a first take guy, right, 1:14:40.640 --> 1:14:43.080 and if you know, he won't do a second take. 1:14:43.840 --> 1:14:47.000 So we did the track George Benson. I didn't know 1:14:47.040 --> 1:14:51.000 the lyrics, so I said, Van, you know George sang, 1:14:51.080 --> 1:14:53.320 but he was He wasn't saying the lyrics and stuff, 1:14:53.680 --> 1:14:55.599 and I said, we got to do another one. He says, nah, 1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:58.320 we can't do what I said, But you know, what 1:14:58.360 --> 1:14:59.920 are we gonna do? I said we should do one 1:15:00.000 --> 1:15:02.599 and he says, okay, I'll do one. So he did 1:15:02.640 --> 1:15:05.479 one and it sounded great and George sounded great, and 1:15:05.560 --> 1:15:09.479 Van said, uh, first one. So I had to repair 1:15:10.120 --> 1:15:12.639 George right. And he was right because the first take 1:15:12.880 --> 1:15:15.360 was magic and it was kind of like, you know, 1:15:15.439 --> 1:15:20.240 just seeing him and and just like he's so on 1:15:20.840 --> 1:15:22.560 and I had some great moments I gotta tell you 1:15:22.640 --> 1:15:25.880 about after that. Um. So we did that song and 1:15:26.040 --> 1:15:28.879 we mixed that, mixed the whole record, and he invited 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:32.320 me to go to Montserrat uh No Mantro for the 1:15:32.400 --> 1:15:35.280 Jazz festival because he wanted to cut a song with 1:15:35.439 --> 1:15:39.960 Dr John. So it flies me from here to Mantro 1:15:40.400 --> 1:15:44.640 or at the jazz festival. So actually I forget the 1:15:44.680 --> 1:15:47.000 song that we're doing. But so I go to the 1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:50.080 stewards set everything up and it's Dr Jones band because 1:15:50.600 --> 1:15:53.640 that's how the duets thing. It's whoever the artist is, 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:57.040 it's their band. They do the arrangement. So we get there, 1:15:57.240 --> 1:16:00.280 I meet Dr John, which is a thrill. I'm there, 1:16:00.360 --> 1:16:02.880 I get it there early, he's there. I get to 1:16:02.920 --> 1:16:06.439 meet him. He was just like it was surreal. So 1:16:06.479 --> 1:16:10.559 we get there and his Dr John's ranger wrote a 1:16:10.640 --> 1:16:16.280 really complicated horn section chart okay for for actually Van's 1:16:16.320 --> 1:16:19.559 horn guys because they didn't have the full horn section 1:16:19.600 --> 1:16:22.639 with Dr John. So we get there, I've got Dr John, 1:16:22.680 --> 1:16:27.439 a piano, Van singing live. We're cutting the track and 1:16:27.520 --> 1:16:30.360 Van hates the horn that Van's guys couldn't play the 1:16:30.360 --> 1:16:34.439 horn chart because it was too complicated. So Van says 1:16:34.479 --> 1:16:38.640 the horn charts wrong. Max says, no, they're right. They 1:16:38.680 --> 1:16:41.240 get into an argument. They're swearing in it. I'm in 1:16:41.280 --> 1:16:45.320 the middle of the two of them, these two icons, 1:16:45.720 --> 1:16:48.920 and they're swearing and they're yelling at each other and 1:16:48.960 --> 1:16:54.640 everybody just leaves. It all blew up and that, and 1:16:54.680 --> 1:16:59.360 it didn't get finished because of that. Literally none of 1:16:59.400 --> 1:17:04.360 the finished never finished it. Van, just like because of 1:17:04.439 --> 1:17:08.479 that happened, No, not gonna work on it. Everybody just 1:17:08.520 --> 1:17:13.759 walked out. They flew me into it. Yeah, but anyway, 1:17:13.920 --> 1:17:17.479 so that was that was a bit disappointing. But the 1:17:17.560 --> 1:17:21.519 day before that, Van phone me and said, I want 1:17:21.520 --> 1:17:25.520 to take you to lunch, Bob, and were like, okay. 1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:28.960 So we went for lunch at the uh the hotel 1:17:29.360 --> 1:17:31.920 right on the lake, just him and I and his 1:17:31.920 --> 1:17:35.360 his day to day girl and Van and I talked 1:17:35.360 --> 1:17:39.280 about music for three hours and it was one of 1:17:39.320 --> 1:17:43.400 the highlights of my life. Highlights of my life. He 1:17:43.520 --> 1:17:48.760 talked about everybody, He talked about Winnipeg, and he told 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:50.280 me a funny story. I don't know if you can 1:17:50.400 --> 1:17:53.920 use it though. You can't use it because who are 1:17:53.920 --> 1:17:58.200 we going to piss off? Well, I guess, well it's 1:17:58.200 --> 1:18:00.519 a funny story anyway, I'll let you would say. But 1:18:00.840 --> 1:18:03.400 he told me. I told him about Burton Comes, and 1:18:03.400 --> 1:18:04.960 I said, Burton Coming, you know, to me was a 1:18:05.040 --> 1:18:07.920 rock star and said he had a cape And Van said, well, 1:18:07.960 --> 1:18:11.160 I had a cape, and I wonder what. He said. Yeah, 1:18:11.200 --> 1:18:14.360 when I lived in l A. I got this girl 1:18:14.439 --> 1:18:19.280 to make me these custom clothes. And you know, she 1:18:19.400 --> 1:18:22.400 made all these you know things. And if you look 1:18:22.439 --> 1:18:25.840 at the uh what is it the band video, the 1:18:25.920 --> 1:18:30.200 live one, you know, um right, the filmore right, the 1:18:30.280 --> 1:18:36.840 last one, he's wearing a jumpsuit. Right, he's anyway, he's 1:18:36.880 --> 1:18:39.599 the best part of the movie. But so and he goes, yeah, 1:18:39.640 --> 1:18:41.240 he said, I had a green cape. She made me 1:18:41.280 --> 1:18:43.840 a green velvet cape. She said yeah. And he said, 1:18:43.920 --> 1:18:45.920 you know, you know I go to the Whiskey Goog 1:18:46.080 --> 1:18:47.960 all the time, and you know, i'd wear the cape 1:18:47.960 --> 1:18:50.400 and my velvet clothes and and he says, I love 1:18:50.439 --> 1:18:53.080 the whiskey, says I love the way that all the 1:18:53.120 --> 1:18:56.000 girls danced there because they just moved their arms and 1:18:56.040 --> 1:18:58.240 stuff like that. I said, then you gotta come to 1:18:58.280 --> 1:19:00.479 me because they still dance like that. You gotta come, 1:19:01.400 --> 1:19:06.280 you know, the freak dancing. Anyway, So we talked about 1:19:06.320 --> 1:19:12.720 that and and he told many many stories, like just 1:19:12.760 --> 1:19:15.600 talked about music and where about p J. Proby. I 1:19:15.600 --> 1:19:19.120 didn't know about that, and we uh, he just you know, 1:19:19.200 --> 1:19:21.080 he told me the story about that, and he talked 1:19:21.080 --> 1:19:24.000 about Bruce because he had met Bruce and Bruce is 1:19:24.160 --> 1:19:28.280 the biggest Van Morrison fan ever. Ah, so it was 1:19:28.320 --> 1:19:31.640 all it was just like an amazing experience. Um. And 1:19:31.680 --> 1:19:33.360 so I was supposed to go back to mix it 1:19:34.120 --> 1:19:36.360 and he calls me and he said, you gotta coming 1:19:36.800 --> 1:19:40.200 and be here Monday. And I said, well, I'm just 1:19:40.320 --> 1:19:43.960 mixing this band called the Black Veil Brides. I didn't 1:19:44.000 --> 1:19:46.759 tell him I'm mixing a project. I can't come Monday, 1:19:46.800 --> 1:19:50.639 but I'll be there in a week. Click. He hung 1:19:50.720 --> 1:19:54.800 up on me. That was it because I said I 1:19:54.840 --> 1:20:00.719 couldn't come on Monday. That for all time, for all time, 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:04.559 you know, that's that is the story. I know people 1:20:04.560 --> 1:20:07.880 work with them, etcetera. That they tell similar stories. It's 1:20:07.920 --> 1:20:10.400 like everything's great, it's over. You don't know what happened. 1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:15.479 That's it. But I'm I'm happy. I had the best. 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:17.880 Like I said, I was just in the presence of something. 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:20.960 One thing I did say, and this is really interesting. 1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:23.439 So I said, you know, because I went and saw 1:20:23.439 --> 1:20:25.280 a show Bruce and I went to see him before 1:20:25.320 --> 1:20:28.160 we went in the studio and he played sacks right, 1:20:28.600 --> 1:20:31.400 and then I started putting together and actually, you know 1:20:31.439 --> 1:20:34.040 when you're mixing, you kind of have solo tracks and 1:20:34.040 --> 1:20:35.680 and you kind of get in a kind of like 1:20:35.880 --> 1:20:39.479 a different feel of what people are doing. And I 1:20:39.600 --> 1:20:42.280 noticed that a lot of vans where he goes melody 1:20:42.360 --> 1:20:47.240 melodically sounds like sacks parts, Like he's not doing singer stuff, 1:20:47.439 --> 1:20:50.760 he's doing other stuff. And so I said, so what 1:20:50.920 --> 1:20:55.920 came first for you? Saxophone or vocals? And I said, 1:20:56.320 --> 1:21:00.840 because it sounds like your vocal parts are like ax parts. 1:21:01.080 --> 1:21:04.240 He goes, he kind of smiled up, and he goes, yeah, 1:21:04.439 --> 1:21:06.639 he started on sacks and then he went to vocals 1:21:06.960 --> 1:21:10.439 and that's where he gets all his melodies. And to me, 1:21:10.520 --> 1:21:15.839 that freaked me out crazy. Okay. Uh Now, ultimately Bruce 1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:19.840 manages Michael Bubley. You end up producing and the records 1:21:19.840 --> 1:21:22.720 are very successful. But from a disan someone would say, well, 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:26.920 that's not your regular wheelhouse. Bruce has known me forever. 1:21:27.360 --> 1:21:29.040 I'm not talking about I'm not talking about getting the 1:21:29.080 --> 1:21:32.800 gig you work with. This is the thing. So he 1:21:32.920 --> 1:21:36.679 suggested it to Michael. Michael goes Metallica and he says, 1:21:36.840 --> 1:21:41.439 well you, Bruce says, you don't understand. Bob started he 1:21:41.479 --> 1:21:44.719 was recording orchestras when he was doing jingles at Little Mountain, 1:21:45.479 --> 1:21:47.519 you know, I mean I made records a day like 1:21:47.920 --> 1:21:50.599 same with Bob Clearmount. We all came in, Chris Lord Algae, 1:21:50.760 --> 1:21:53.599 We all came from jingles. Like that's making a record 1:21:53.720 --> 1:21:56.439 every day, a one minute record, you know, and you 1:21:56.520 --> 1:21:59.600 do orchestras and stuff. He says, Bob knows how to 1:21:59.640 --> 1:22:03.040 do it. So actually, Boo Blay played Maui and I 1:22:03.080 --> 1:22:05.240 went to see him, and so they played this song 1:22:05.320 --> 1:22:07.840 and the producer that he was working said it was 1:22:07.880 --> 1:22:11.240 a ship song. And I said, it's not a ship song. 1:22:11.280 --> 1:22:13.479 It's a good song. And I said, but you need 1:22:13.560 --> 1:22:16.400 to rewrite the bridge. Just this is where you should go. 1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:18.880 We ride the bridge. So Alan Chang Is m D 1:22:19.040 --> 1:22:22.960 wrote the bridge. We went into Brian's studio. I got 1:22:23.000 --> 1:22:25.559 great musicians Josh Freeze and guys from l A and 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:28.320 some Vancouver guys that I know, and we cut the 1:22:28.360 --> 1:22:30.880 song live. We cut two songs and it was like 1:22:31.120 --> 1:22:34.040 it was easy because we did the pre production. They 1:22:34.160 --> 1:22:36.320 changed it. We ran a couple of times and cut 1:22:36.320 --> 1:22:40.639 it and Michael loved it. That was everything. He only 1:22:40.680 --> 1:22:43.839 did one song. He just you know, Michael went, okay, 1:22:43.880 --> 1:22:49.040 I get it right. Okay, Well, today's world is mostly 1:22:49.080 --> 1:22:52.519 a hip hop pop world. You certainly Boo Blaze in 1:22:52.560 --> 1:22:55.720 his own lane and rock doesn't have the presence. What 1:22:55.760 --> 1:22:58.120 do you think about today's scene and to what degree 1:22:58.120 --> 1:23:02.240 does it intersect with your career and out yikes? What 1:23:02.240 --> 1:23:06.880 what inspires me constantly is like if you if you 1:23:06.920 --> 1:23:10.720 pick out just a song that really hits you, like 1:23:10.840 --> 1:23:16.840 Circles by post Malone. Okay, so out of the Blue 1:23:18.880 --> 1:23:24.560 that comes on and I went, that's a great record. Okay, 1:23:25.040 --> 1:23:28.160 that's not a rock record, rock record, that's kind of 1:23:28.200 --> 1:23:31.240 like it's just a great song. The lyrics are great, 1:23:31.240 --> 1:23:34.720 that feels great. That's a great song. That's what I 1:23:34.760 --> 1:23:38.160 can still do if that happens. I'm not going to 1:23:38.240 --> 1:23:39.960 go into the rap thing because I don't know it. 1:23:40.479 --> 1:23:43.240 But I can still make great records with people that 1:23:43.320 --> 1:23:45.840 want to make records like that. And the great thing 1:23:45.880 --> 1:23:49.040 about the Post Malone is there's room musicians. You know, 1:23:49.200 --> 1:23:51.920 it's just not all you know what I mean. There's guitars, 1:23:52.000 --> 1:23:54.880 there's vocals, and you can hear the work that was 1:23:54.880 --> 1:23:58.080 put into it. That's a great record that keeps me inspired. 1:23:58.479 --> 1:24:02.559 Billie Eilish too, same thing. You hear the craft, how 1:24:02.600 --> 1:24:08.520 things people are making great things. You know, what's the 1:24:08.520 --> 1:24:11.639 The girl put out the record that's very weird. What's 1:24:11.640 --> 1:24:17.840 her name, uh, Fiona Apple? Yes, listen to the record. 1:24:17.880 --> 1:24:22.680 There's four four tracks that are just great. You know, 1:24:22.920 --> 1:24:25.200 it's still inspire. I don't know if I could do that, 1:24:25.520 --> 1:24:29.599 but sure, so that's what keeps me interested as long 1:24:29.600 --> 1:24:34.639 as I'm interested, you know, um, yeah, I mean people Still. 1:24:35.120 --> 1:24:40.520 The thing is is that I think still people appreciate 1:24:42.320 --> 1:24:45.599 proper recording. And that may sound really strange, but there's 1:24:45.640 --> 1:24:51.080 a lot of good recordings that get away, like you know, um, 1:24:51.120 --> 1:24:53.439 there's a lot of raw recordings that get away because 1:24:53.479 --> 1:24:57.599 it's a great song. But still people really appreciate like 1:24:57.880 --> 1:25:01.320 good sonics and good recording and not many people know 1:25:01.400 --> 1:25:05.520 how to do it. So maybe there's a place for me. Okay, 1:25:05.560 --> 1:25:10.559 but uh, I'll use the vernacular. Does your dick still 1:25:10.640 --> 1:25:14.400 get hard? Are you still as excited? Because certainly once 1:25:14.439 --> 1:25:19.240 you pass sixty ones, perspective tends to change, and you know, 1:25:19.360 --> 1:25:22.479 you certainly can nail it and there you know, certain 1:25:22.640 --> 1:25:25.680 people work forever in this business, But how do you 1:25:25.760 --> 1:25:27.920 get key and you get as excited as it used 1:25:27.960 --> 1:25:33.759 to be? And how do you get excited? I worked 1:25:33.760 --> 1:25:37.320 with the band called class Less Act and I did 1:25:37.320 --> 1:25:41.040 it basically for nothing, and I work with them and 1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:46.639 they were so excited about having great sounds and their 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:51.040 their songs being arranged, and I got excited. So yes, 1:25:51.120 --> 1:25:54.240 I still get excited about it. I just love making 1:25:54.280 --> 1:25:58.559 records and until I can't, I'm going to keep doing it. 1:25:59.040 --> 1:26:03.120 And to what degree are you a student of the game? 1:26:03.400 --> 1:26:05.679 What I mean by that is you wake up early, 1:26:05.760 --> 1:26:08.680 you work in the studio. Are you someone who is 1:26:08.800 --> 1:26:13.000 literally going on the services Spotify, whatever and checking all 1:26:13.040 --> 1:26:16.040 the new stuff? Do you listen to old stuff? You know? 1:26:16.160 --> 1:26:19.599 To what degree? You obviously know the limited number of mixers. 1:26:20.080 --> 1:26:21.839 But if we were to go through the hit records 1:26:21.840 --> 1:26:24.640 of today, whatever genre, are you keeping up with that 1:26:24.840 --> 1:26:28.800 or not? Basically the stuff that rises the surface in 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:34.240 my realm so to speak? Yeah, I mean I buy iTunes. 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:38.599 I still buy you know whatever, If I hear something, 1:26:38.720 --> 1:26:41.519 I'll buy it. I support musicians, I still do. That 1:26:41.760 --> 1:26:47.640 is insane as that sounds, but um, yeah, people are 1:26:47.640 --> 1:26:50.759 still making great records. I just heard the New Killers single, 1:26:51.240 --> 1:26:54.960 their New Killers single. I like it. You could see 1:26:55.000 --> 1:26:57.679 that they did it. I'm asking a slightly different question, 1:26:57.800 --> 1:27:00.920 which is how do you find it? You gotta look. 1:27:01.520 --> 1:27:04.719 It's like shopping, you know that when I started when 1:27:05.000 --> 1:27:07.639 when I bought the m C five album Kick Out 1:27:07.640 --> 1:27:11.040 the Jams at Hudson's Bay in Victoria, never heard the band. 1:27:11.720 --> 1:27:15.200 Bought it because I liked the album cover, right, because 1:27:15.240 --> 1:27:20.479 I was searching for music. Okay, I was there to 1:27:20.520 --> 1:27:22.920 buy led Zeppelin one in truth. But I went to 1:27:23.000 --> 1:27:26.040 Hudson's Bay and I was going through records, never heard 1:27:26.040 --> 1:27:27.640 of the m C five. I bought it because they 1:27:27.720 --> 1:27:31.439 had American flags draped on their amplifiers, and I thought 1:27:31.720 --> 1:27:35.759 that is cool. Ship bought the record. I went to school. 1:27:35.840 --> 1:27:38.400 My band learned out Kicked Out with the Jams, right. 1:27:38.479 --> 1:27:40.320 We played it at a sow cop and we got 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:45.960 banned from the school. That was when it came out. Okay, 1:27:46.360 --> 1:27:51.080 so right now I still search for inspiration, I really do. 1:27:51.520 --> 1:27:54.519 I see. You gotta search it out, yeah, because you 1:27:54.560 --> 1:27:57.760 can't hear it on the radio drilling down. Can you 1:27:57.800 --> 1:27:59.680 tell us a little about your technique and how you 1:27:59.720 --> 1:28:05.280 sort Well, I've got kids, Okay, that definitely helps you know, um, 1:28:05.360 --> 1:28:08.280 you know, like when you're in at the warehouse or 1:28:08.320 --> 1:28:11.080 when you're in Los Angeles. I listened to the radio. 1:28:11.560 --> 1:28:15.080 I listened to people tell me about stuff, you know, 1:28:15.200 --> 1:28:18.040 when I'm working, Like it's less of it now. I'm 1:28:18.080 --> 1:28:20.080 not hearing so much right now. It's mainly from my 1:28:20.160 --> 1:28:23.640 kids or somebody will saying, listen to this um or. 1:28:23.680 --> 1:28:25.360 I searched it out the Killers. I always buy The 1:28:25.439 --> 1:28:29.760 Killers because I like them, and I'm glad that they 1:28:29.800 --> 1:28:32.200 put out a record and the first single sounds great 1:28:32.240 --> 1:28:34.960 to me, and Lindsey Buckingham's on it, so I'm you know, 1:28:35.680 --> 1:28:38.880 I'm in there just for that, you know. So like 1:28:38.920 --> 1:28:40.880 I said, you gotta search, you've gotta do the work. 1:28:41.120 --> 1:28:44.720 And if you do the work and people that if 1:28:44.760 --> 1:28:47.439 you look at all the music that's released, it's hard 1:28:47.439 --> 1:28:51.920 to find something that nobody knows about. That's what worries me, 1:28:52.000 --> 1:28:56.519 because there isn't there isn't that that thing that used 1:28:56.560 --> 1:29:00.640 to be. There's not the great guys that developed people like. 1:29:00.760 --> 1:29:04.720 We don't have the John Hammonds, we don't have ahm it. 1:29:04.920 --> 1:29:09.000 We don't have you know, those guys helping us discover, 1:29:09.640 --> 1:29:12.400 you know, so we're kind of on our own I 1:29:12.479 --> 1:29:15.400 was just gonna say, by the way, I think Rick 1:29:15.479 --> 1:29:18.639 Rubin is a great record man. I think he stands 1:29:18.680 --> 1:29:22.160 with Jon Hammond and Ahmad and stuff. I really believe 1:29:22.280 --> 1:29:25.080 that's the guy. He is. Well, he makes records in 1:29:25.160 --> 1:29:27.800 a in a completely different way from most people. It's 1:29:27.840 --> 1:29:31.840 all very conceptual, trying to inspire the brains of the 1:29:31.920 --> 1:29:36.120 people exactly. And but I think that's he's so good 1:29:36.120 --> 1:29:39.960 at that. He's a great music guy like John Hammond, 1:29:40.040 --> 1:29:42.559 like he's one of the greats, Clive Davis and stuff. 1:29:42.680 --> 1:29:44.840 He's got vision and stuff. I thought i'd say that 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:47.760 to you because I put him in that category. I 1:29:47.800 --> 1:29:52.240 admire the guy. Did Did you watch the Beastie Boys movie? 1:29:52.720 --> 1:29:55.080 I did, and I saw that and I was shocked. 1:29:55.479 --> 1:29:58.080 I knew sort of about that, but that that whole 1:29:58.120 --> 1:30:03.040 thing what they did is just so bad, right, It's 1:30:03.080 --> 1:30:06.960 just that that's the business. It's cutthroat, man, But it's 1:30:07.000 --> 1:30:10.519 also funny, you know, knowing George dr Culius, etcetera. The 1:30:10.600 --> 1:30:14.000 transition of Rick Rubin to the guru, you know, the 1:30:14.120 --> 1:30:17.519 quiet guy whatever it's opposed in that movie. He's the 1:30:17.520 --> 1:30:21.599 guy who's right up front promoting, etcetera. I know, well, 1:30:21.680 --> 1:30:27.320 people change. Yeah, anyway, listen hopefully people do tanche well. 1:30:27.360 --> 1:30:30.160 Thanks so much for taking time out of your creative day, Bob. 1:30:30.479 --> 1:30:34.080 Always great to see you and you Bob, love love 1:30:34.120 --> 1:30:37.080 what you do, keep doing it, keep telling the truth. 1:30:37.439 --> 1:30:39.640 Thank you, Thanks so much. Til next time. This is 1:30:39.680 --> 1:31:00.800 Bob left sense fo