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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bobs Podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is musician, engineer, producer Bob Rock. Bob good to have.

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Speaker 1: It's good to be here. I'm a big fan, Bob.

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Speaker 1: You're in a white right, Yes, I'm in Maui. I

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Speaker 1: live in a small place called Haiku on the north

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Speaker 1: shore of Maui. Yeah. How did you decide to move

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Speaker 1: to a wire Well, my wife decided to move to

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Speaker 1: Haaii and I followed her. We we you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: Basically what happened is, uh, we knew we wanted to

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Speaker 1: kind of live in the States, you know, at some

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Speaker 1: point in my my life it was best for for us.

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Speaker 1: For those who don't know, you aren't Canadian, Yes, but

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Speaker 1: I'm a US resident. I've been here twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: you know. So. But the thing is is, you know,

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Speaker 1: my wife, she goes, you're always in the studio, but

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Speaker 1: I gotta deal with in Vancouver. I gotta deal with

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Speaker 1: taking the kids to school in the rain. She says,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do that anymore. Let's move to Hawaii,

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Speaker 1: And I said, sure, let's try it. So we tried it,

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Speaker 1: built a house and never went back. Basically, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a good life here. How many years you've been in Maui? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: twenty five years. Okay, So you have how many kids

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Speaker 1: do you have? I have six? Okay, you have six kids?

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Speaker 1: What are their ages? Oh? From I guess thirty nine

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Speaker 1: to twenty four? Two boys and yeah, and five girls? No,

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Speaker 1: it's four girls. Sorry? And how many are with your

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Speaker 1: present wife? If not all of them? Uh? Four? So

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Speaker 1: are any of them with you in Hawaii? Yes? My

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Speaker 1: last daughter that's at home is Sally and she's twenty four. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So what's it like in the covid era in Hawaii?

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Speaker 1: It's it's kind of for me, it's kind of okay.

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Speaker 1: We have horses, we've got property, we've got twenty care's

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Speaker 1: on another part of the island. So I basically get

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Speaker 1: up in the morning, going to my studio right a bit,

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Speaker 1: and then I go to the barn and I'm just

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Speaker 1: you know, I do chores all day and I come

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Speaker 1: back here. So it's not that bad. I just see

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Speaker 1: the animals. We got lots of horses and goats, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what I do. And are you seeing any people?

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Speaker 1: Are you taking the quarantining things seriously? Uh? Definitely, Seriously,

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Speaker 1: I just turned sixty six. I happy birthday. I had

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Speaker 1: my birthday just a few days after years. Really, I'm

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Speaker 1: the twenty second cool so you know, the wife and

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Speaker 1: my daughter says I can't do anything, so they do

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Speaker 1: all the shopping. I'm okay with this, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it's for me. I don't think I've ever had this

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Speaker 1: much time off since I started my career. Seriously, like

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Speaker 1: three months going on three months. It's like this is

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Speaker 1: something else. Okay, So but in today you can record

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Speaker 1: from different locations. Are you doing any recording or is

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Speaker 1: everybody kind of locked down? Everybody's kind of locked down.

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Speaker 1: I've got uh you know, I mean we trade files,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Um, but that's not really kind of like

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Speaker 1: what I do. You know you can do that, uh,

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Speaker 1: Like I said, that's not really how I approach it.

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Speaker 1: But I am. I'm sitting on two albums that i've

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Speaker 1: I've finished and they were supposed to be basically be

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Speaker 1: out right now, one with Richie Sambora, a good friend

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Speaker 1: of mine, and the other one was the Offspring album.

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Speaker 1: And both albums, I mean, we were done three months ago,

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Speaker 1: but now they're not gonna come out until next year probably,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of it's very strange. Well, that may change,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll discuss that with Garino. But it's like

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Speaker 1: it seems like, now this's gonna go on a long

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Speaker 1: time and you can't go on the road. It's a

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Speaker 1: good time because there aren't that many new albums out

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Speaker 1: by major acts. Yeah. The thing is is what I

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Speaker 1: noticed is all my friends Dexter and like Ritchie and

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Speaker 1: and other people, everybody with the bou Blet Camp, everybody,

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Speaker 1: I know, we're all writing, which is kind of good,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, because normally you're working too hard to write. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: usually you see that. I've got into this whole thing

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Speaker 1: where I get up early before everybody gets up, and

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Speaker 1: I'm in the studio writing for probably a couple of

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Speaker 1: hours every day, you know, five o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's my alone time. Okay. Are you normally

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Speaker 1: an early morning person? Yeah, I kind of am, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, rather than late at night. I'm just kind

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Speaker 1: of like, I like it early in the morning. What

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Speaker 1: I discovered is that I'm more creative in the morning

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Speaker 1: because my head hasn't gotten into the day. My head

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Speaker 1: is blank when I get up, you know, so I

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Speaker 1: find that's the best time to create. I'm just the opposite.

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Speaker 1: But now don't most aren't most musicians nocturnal? Yes they are.

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Speaker 1: So how does that how does that work for your schedule? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, schedules of change. I mean, you know, when

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Speaker 1: I was younger, it was, you know what, always always

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Speaker 1: end up being new until like whenever, like Metallica, we

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Speaker 1: we would work un till four in the morning, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then just get up and just try and get

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Speaker 1: to the studio and start again. But that was the

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Speaker 1: younger days, you know. I try and keep I try

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Speaker 1: and keep a limit on twelve hours now because usually

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Speaker 1: after twelve hours I'm done. That's a long time. So

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Speaker 1: how extensive is your studio in Hawaii? Well, I actually

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Speaker 1: kind of have a full a full big SSL and

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Speaker 1: need all the gear, but that went away with the budgets.

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Speaker 1: You know. I had a lot of people coming here

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Speaker 1: and we had a great time. But nobody can afford

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Speaker 1: to come to Maui and and you know stay here

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Speaker 1: to be quite honest, So it's kind of dormant, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of sad for me. But but theoretically, if

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Speaker 1: someone had the money, they could do the whole album

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Speaker 1: at your studio theoretically, yeah, you know, so you just

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Speaker 1: talked about doing these albums like with the Offspring, so

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Speaker 1: you go to the act at this point. Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. I got to California and I mainly go

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Speaker 1: to Vancouver. I use Brian Adams studio. It's an amazing

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Speaker 1: studio and you know, basically I came from that town,

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Speaker 1: so it's really easy for me to record. It's it's

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Speaker 1: the best studio. I bring everybody there. They love it.

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Speaker 1: And so like if you cut the Offspringer, you work

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Speaker 1: with Richie Sambora, do you work continuously and how long

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Speaker 1: does that take? Well? With with both projects, those guys

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Speaker 1: they kind of we don't really do three months at

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Speaker 1: a time and just do an album, you know, because

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Speaker 1: they're writers constantly writing. So with with Dexter, I go

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Speaker 1: to Huntington Beach, stay there and we usually work like

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Speaker 1: two three weeks and then we take a break, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then with Richie it's the same thing. I go

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Speaker 1: and stay at his house. Um. The thing is is

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Speaker 1: like you know, even with the big guys who can

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Speaker 1: afford it, you know, what has happened is like I

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Speaker 1: put a studio portable studio in Richie's house. It's in

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Speaker 1: his dining room and it's been there for three years.

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Speaker 1: I guess he's not eating much. No, that the problem

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Speaker 1: is is actually the studios right by the kitchen, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of a drag because we eat all day.

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Speaker 1: But as it turned out, he just loved it and

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Speaker 1: it hasn't left, you know, because it's so creative. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can do it, and then we go to the

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Speaker 1: studio and we cut like for instance, Able Boreo Jr.

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Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, Fame, etcetera. We just went into a studio

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Speaker 1: for three days and did all the drum tracks, you know,

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Speaker 1: So it's different now, it's it's very rare that I

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Speaker 1: record everything at the same time. So how do you

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Speaker 1: feel and how does your wife feel about being separated

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Speaker 1: for all these recording projects. Well, I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've been together for thirty or five years, so she's

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Speaker 1: kind of she understands, you know, and that's I think

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Speaker 1: that's the greatest thing about my wife, Angie, is that

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Speaker 1: we've always had that understand and she gets what I

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Speaker 1: did and she knew what she was getting into. So

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Speaker 1: we've managed to be okay with the whole thing. But

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Speaker 1: it's some It takes a lot to get up for

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Speaker 1: me to get on a plane and go away. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's put it that way. It has to be special.

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Speaker 1: Those guys are very very special. So in the average

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Speaker 1: year prior to this insane era, how much of the

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Speaker 1: year were you outside Hawaii? Maybe for nine months? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so most of the time. And these records, you're producing,

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Speaker 1: and you're engineering yourself, and you're mixing yourself, you're working

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Speaker 1: with other people. Now, I um, you know, just generally,

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Speaker 1: what I found is that I kind of oversee the

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Speaker 1: how these sonics go. But I I found, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I changed to kind of more producing. You know,

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Speaker 1: the first records that I did, when I started producing,

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Speaker 1: I did everything and I realized that my perspective was

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Speaker 1: off and I couldn't do both. So I've always worked

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Speaker 1: with an engineer to help me. Right now, I've got

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Speaker 1: a great engineer, Adam Greenholtz, but you know, I've worked

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Speaker 1: with engineers when I got into producing more seriously, it's

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Speaker 1: just too much work, and I said, the perspective changes,

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Speaker 1: you know, and who does the mixing? Well, I do

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Speaker 1: the mixing, and sometimes it's gets uh put out for

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Speaker 1: mixers that are hot, you know, like Chris Lord, Algae,

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Speaker 1: Buff Clare, Mountain, etcetera. You know, and that has changed

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Speaker 1: from when, you know, when I started. When I started,

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Speaker 1: it was like it was, you know, we we mixed

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Speaker 1: our own stuff, which is you know, lover boy, you know,

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Speaker 1: slippery when wet. Everything that I did didn't even the

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Speaker 1: first things that I you know, even Metallica and Motley

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Speaker 1: Crue I was mixing. But then it turned into the

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Speaker 1: business turned into A and rs and record companies always

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Speaker 1: went to the same people, and so that changed. But

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Speaker 1: I actually liked the old days. There was this great competition,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know I did, you know, I go

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Speaker 1: out and buy what the record that Bob did because

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Speaker 1: I want to know what he did. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was always there was great competition, and the competition kind

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Speaker 1: of went out of fashion in a way, kind of

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Speaker 1: got boring. And are you happy with the mixes these

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Speaker 1: people do? I mean, ultimately you're happy because the record

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Speaker 1: comes out, but do you feel that you could do

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Speaker 1: just as good or a different job than the usual suspects.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's better, It's just it's a different perspective,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll tell you a funny story. One of

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Speaker 1: the one of the last records that I that I

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Speaker 1: did the whole record, and uh, I was mixing in

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Speaker 1: my studio here and I thought, I wonder if I've

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Speaker 1: got any any better, So I put up term me

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Speaker 1: lose or not terminators working for the weekend? Okay. And

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Speaker 1: then the mix that I was doing a bank called

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Speaker 1: American Bang who turned into Cadillac three. Okay. So I'm

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Speaker 1: mixing this song and I compared TOI and sonically they

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Speaker 1: signed it exactly the same. So basically I've learned nothing

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Speaker 1: or or else you got bell? No? Well, no, The

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Speaker 1: thing is, that's my perspective. Do you follow me? That's

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Speaker 1: the way I hear music. So to me, if people

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Speaker 1: like that perspective, I usually mix. If they want a

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Speaker 1: different perspective, they go to somebody else. Okay, you talked

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Speaker 1: about budgets. Obviously that would mean that you're making less

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Speaker 1: money and a lot of these records don't generate as

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Speaker 1: much capital as they used to. How has that changed

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Speaker 1: your perspective, Uh, It's my perspective is the same. You know,

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Speaker 1: I got into this for the love of of making records.

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Speaker 1: I mean that is my art form. You know, I

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Speaker 1: came from a group and I made records and I

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Speaker 1: wrote songs, etcetera. But to me, it's making records that

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Speaker 1: I love. So I'm gonna make records no matter how

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Speaker 1: much I make. I just choose who I want to

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Speaker 1: work with now, so I don't mind about the monetary thing.

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Speaker 1: It's always nice. But you know, I get paid well.

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Speaker 1: And if I have to make a deal to do

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Speaker 1: a project, if I like the project, I'll do it

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Speaker 1: bottom line. Okay, So let's assume you're on a project

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Speaker 1: and you're not living in Richie's house, you're living in

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Speaker 1: a hotel. Well, when Vancouver? Do you have your own

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Speaker 1: place in Vancouver? What do you what do you stand

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Speaker 1: in hotel? Okay? A lot of people don't like that life.

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Speaker 1: How how do you do that? You know the session

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Speaker 1: is over? How do you keep yourself seeing? Um? Well,

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Speaker 1: in Vancouver it's easy because I have friends and family there,

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Speaker 1: so that's easy. And I have friends in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: Those are really the primary the two places. And you know,

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Speaker 1: if like when I was doing Van Morrison, you know,

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Speaker 1: five years back, it was great because I was in

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Speaker 1: London for like a couple of months, right, And I

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Speaker 1: love London. So you get to be in London, you

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Speaker 1: do things. Okay, let's go back to something you said earlier,

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Speaker 1: talked about writing. What are you personally working on in

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Speaker 1: terms of writing? Well, what I do is I constantly right,

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Speaker 1: That's how I write. I put together tracks and I

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Speaker 1: guess present terms, it would be almost like rap producers

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Speaker 1: put together beats or a track and usually handed off

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Speaker 1: to an artist. That's what I did. So on the

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Speaker 1: new Zambora album, uh, we co wrote basically, I think

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Speaker 1: about eight songs on the record and I just brought tracks,

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Speaker 1: which is very different, you know, But somehow we had

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Speaker 1: so much fun that we just kept going. So the

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Speaker 1: new stuff, it's like it's him and I writing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you go to the studio early in the morning.

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Speaker 1: How long does do you work on a track or

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Speaker 1: do you come back to a track? I mean tracks

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Speaker 1: are done, Records are done when you all feel like

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Speaker 1: you've nailed it. So that yeah, I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: actually talking about that. I'm talking about you know, y

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Speaker 1: now when you're working alone starting a ground zero. You

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Speaker 1: talked about your writing. I assume you're creating things out

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Speaker 1: of thin air. Or maybe I have that wrong. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's basically and this is what amazing technology has happened.

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Speaker 1: The technology has come uh to make it really easy.

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Speaker 1: So I work on my laptop so I can put

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Speaker 1: together a track in about an hour, you know, basically

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Speaker 1: with like I've got my own uh drum kind of

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Speaker 1: sample library, et cetera, so I can. So something inspires me,

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Speaker 1: I'll hear something that'll spark and I'll just play guitar,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they'll be something that I take and

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Speaker 1: I take that and then I develop it and usually

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Speaker 1: like I've been working on a piece of music now

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Speaker 1: for two weeks and it started out as this, but

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Speaker 1: it went there, which is kind of in a funny way,

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Speaker 1: the way I work with artists. You know, you start

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Speaker 1: with something and you have an idea and you work

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Speaker 1: with it and it goes somewhere else. You know, conceptually,

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Speaker 1: records for me, you know, you can talk about conceptions

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Speaker 1: in terms of how you're going to make a record,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, but it always comes down to the work

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Speaker 1: that you put in in the hours that you spend.

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Speaker 1: You know, it can either happen very quickly or it

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Speaker 1: can happen over a length of time. People kind of

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Speaker 1: update these days. I believe a lot, at least that's

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Speaker 1: what I do. So even like with with the time

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Speaker 1: that Ritchie and Dexter have had because of the virus thing,

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Speaker 1: of course they're starting to hear things that they want

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Speaker 1: to change even though we finish the record, because that's

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Speaker 1: what musicians do. You constantly want you think it can

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Speaker 1: be better. I'm not sure that works, but the way

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Speaker 1: it was was great, but now you know, looking at it,

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Speaker 1: you always think it can be a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: And so you said, you've got an idea, tell me

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Speaker 1: about that inspiration. It can be like a beat, it

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Speaker 1: can be a sound, it can be something that I've

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Speaker 1: heard and when like um, when I moved to Hawaii,

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Speaker 1: I realized that a lot of the music stores don't

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Speaker 1: have all the vintage gear that I collect and most

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Speaker 1: of the gear that I've collected through the years. It's

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Speaker 1: always like a sound like I have every amplifier, effect

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Speaker 1: and guitar that Jimmy Page has, same with like Jeff Beck,

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Speaker 1: same with Eric Clapton, same with Leslie West, same with

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Speaker 1: Brian May, same with David Gilmour. I collected all the

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Speaker 1: amps and everything and it's kind of like it's almost

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Speaker 1: like an artist's palette, right, you know, all these colors,

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Speaker 1: and that's what I do. So yeah, so it will

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Speaker 1: It'll start with that and I get inspired. Like, for instance,

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Speaker 1: I have a collection of amplifiers, and Jimmy Page is

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest influences on my whole life, basically

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Speaker 1: from led Zeppelin on, you know, and so I've got

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Speaker 1: a collection. I've got the actual amplifier that he used,

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Speaker 1: not the amplifier, but the exact amplifier that he used

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Speaker 1: on led Zeppelin one. And I've got the same guitar.

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Speaker 1: I've got everything, right, I never nailed the sound. A

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Speaker 1: month ago I discovered on the Internet that I was

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Speaker 1: missing one piece of gear, which was a two bACC Coplex,

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Speaker 1: and I have one. So I hooked it up and

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Speaker 1: I got the sin that I got the sound on

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Speaker 1: good times bad times, and I was like a little kid.

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Speaker 1: I was dancing around the series because I actually nailed it. Now,

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Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do with that, I have no idea,

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Speaker 1: but the fact is I still get excited about that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: how much equipment do you have? How many guitars do

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Speaker 1: you have? I don't count them, but it's over a hundred,

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Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and something. I have a warehouse

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Speaker 1: full of amps and keyboards, et cetera, vintage stuff. That's

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Speaker 1: my question, is the is the warehouse in MAUI? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's down below. Yeah. And how many amps do you

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Speaker 1: think you have? Oh? I don't know. I've lost count,

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Speaker 1: but I still buy them. I still buy I still yeah.

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Speaker 1: You see went earlier on, like when I started I

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Speaker 1: first started playing guitar, I had my dad could only

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Speaker 1: afford a I can't guitar, and I had a heath

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Speaker 1: kid am. So I was always like everybody else had

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Speaker 1: better gear than me. So it kind of started this

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Speaker 1: thing with me. So as soon as I started making

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Speaker 1: money writing songs in my band, the pay all is

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Speaker 1: I always put the money that I made by writing

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Speaker 1: songs back into something. So like, for instance, one of

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Speaker 1: our biggest songs with the Pails was Eyes of a Stranger. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And how I got that is I read about Bob

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Speaker 1: Marley using a drum machine on the Natty Dread album.

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Speaker 1: I listened to it and I found out what the

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Speaker 1: drum machine. So I got a check for writing songs,

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Speaker 1: bought that drum machine. That drum machine turned into the

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Speaker 1: machine that I used on Eyes of a Stranger that

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Speaker 1: wrote the song. So I've done that for basically almost

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Speaker 1: forty years. I keep doing it. Okay, let's assume you

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Speaker 1: wake up and you don't have an idea. Will you

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Speaker 1: sit there long enough or you just work on something

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Speaker 1: you've already been working on, UM a bit of both.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I wake up and i'm you know, when I

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Speaker 1: wake up in the morning, I kind of think of things.

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Speaker 1: I'll think of a song. Now I can kind of

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Speaker 1: do it in ahead changes, etcetera. What you do when

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Speaker 1: you when you become a writer, etcetera. You learned that

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Speaker 1: there's certain standard changes. So to me, there's so many

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Speaker 1: things that basically are the same song. So it's really

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Speaker 1: about a feel, a feel that I hear or something

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Speaker 1: that I remember. So I walk into the studio with

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Speaker 1: kind of like that idea and I just try and

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Speaker 1: usually what that seed takes me somewhere that I didn't

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Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't conceived. That seed made me go

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Speaker 1: somewhere else, and that's when I get something I like. Now,

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Speaker 1: this begs the question, how do you attribute songwriting credits? Well,

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Speaker 1: songwriting credits. It's it's like, that's what I've done my

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Speaker 1: whole life. Is I never anything that I ever added

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Speaker 1: to anything that I've worked on Up until a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago. I never took credit because I didn't

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Speaker 1: think I wanted to be in that game, So suggestions

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Speaker 1: that I did as a producer I never kind of went, well,

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Speaker 1: I I need credit for that because I like being

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Speaker 1: a pre docer and I think it's a different game

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Speaker 1: to be a songwriter. You know. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be in that game. I just wanted to produce and

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Speaker 1: make records. Things have changed slightly and and I think

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Speaker 1: I think I put it out there a bit more

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Speaker 1: like I just did an album with Jenn Arden up

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Speaker 1: in Canada and we just we kind of played a

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Speaker 1: couple of tracks, she wrote songs, and we just kept going.

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Speaker 1: Same thing with Ritchie, So we'll see how it goes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now you talk about the reverence for Jimmy Page, and

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Speaker 1: I was smiling, just can talk about that sound from

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Speaker 1: good times bad times? Do you think these artists that

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Speaker 1: have had previous peaks a decade or so previously, how

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Speaker 1: would you personally try to get their head back in

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Speaker 1: the game. If you had an opportunity, like if you

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Speaker 1: had Jimmy Page, what would you do to try to

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Speaker 1: get him to create something akin to his classic era,

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Speaker 1: not in sound, but in that's Ah, that's a tough one, actually, No, Jimmy,

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Speaker 1: you know, and we've talked and we've had you know,

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and it's really really different when somebody like that,

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Speaker 1: when you're at the presence of somebody that you revere,

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Speaker 1: you know, that is a tough thing. You know. I

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Speaker 1: just make him comfortable and from what I know, I

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Speaker 1: would go with what I know and and kind of

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Speaker 1: what he does and kind of make him, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of look back, but not go back, you know.

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Speaker 1: As as Bowie said, it's you know, he's every album

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Speaker 1: he makes is the same but different. So it's almost

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Speaker 1: like recognizing what's good about what you do. Like I

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Speaker 1: I'd like to see Jimmy play the blues. I think

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Speaker 1: he would make an incredible blues album like The Stones

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Speaker 1: did because basically that was, you know, that's the seed

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Speaker 1: of my whole career in my life, really the three

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Speaker 1: guys Jeff Back, Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page and the

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Speaker 1: Truth Album, the Jeff Back Album and leads up on One,

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Speaker 1: I bought within I don't know. They were released fairly

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Speaker 1: soon in up in Canada, and those two albums started

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Speaker 1: everything for me, my journey and so to me when

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Speaker 1: I listened to it, Like with Richie, I played the

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Speaker 1: Truth album, which he wasn't familiar with. He didn't know

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Speaker 1: he he didn't know Truth. He now lives up in One,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't know Truth. So you know, when he

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Speaker 1: heard Truth, he went, well, what the fuck? He did

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Speaker 1: not know that? And the tones and everything, do you

405
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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, so you can imagine, you know,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, sometimes people try and make contemporary contemporary

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Speaker 1: records and I get that, but like um, like for instance,

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Speaker 1: the Sambora album, we were just two teenagers leaning on

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Speaker 1: all those guys that we love, you know, and going back.

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Speaker 1: But it sounds modern and it's just those influences. Is

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Speaker 1: so would Jimmy to answer the question with Jimmy Page,

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Speaker 1: I just go, Jimmy, Let's start with the blues. He

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Speaker 1: was like the man. He made the blues sound different.

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Speaker 1: You know. Okay, I'm gonna put a question you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna answer. Of the three, well, let's put it this way.

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Speaker 1: Greatest rock guitarist of all time. Oh that's that's so mean,

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Speaker 1: Bob um Well. I would say I would say that

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Speaker 1: both Clapton and Paige because I was there actually when

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Speaker 1: Monta got Uh in the Rock and Roll Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame and Jimmy Page put Jeff Beck in the Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame, and he said that Jimmy Page is the

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Speaker 1: best guitar player in the world period, and Clapton has

423
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: said the same, And so I would say I would

424
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: go back because everybody I know Back is pretty much

425
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: the guy in terms of the standard, you know, Key

426
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: Scott of Brian Adams Fame, etcetera. We went and saw

427
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: Jeff back and you could just we were just like teenagers.

428
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: And I was sitting with Robbie Craiger to the three

429
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: of us, and we were watching Jeff Beck and we're

430
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: just going like, what did he just do? Do you know? Still?

431
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: You know, still he's still the guy that shocks all

432
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: of us? I agree totally. You know, when people talk

433
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: to you. I remember they had the arms concerts in

434
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: the Ronnie Lean Muscular Ms shows and the three of

435
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: them were all on stage clapped in back. And that

436
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: was when Page was working Uh in the firm and

437
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: Beck just blew him away. I mean I talked to

438
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: Beck once and they say, never missed a note. You know,

439
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: he said, oh I missed a note. But it's like

440
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: Beck doesn't write the way Page doesn't, doesn't produce whatever.

441
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: But in terms of sheer playing, it's unbelievable. Yeah, A

442
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: a big moment for both Keith Scott and I. We

443
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: were both at the Queeney Theater in Vancouver when the

444
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: Blow By Blow tour came through Vancouver. I saw that

445
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: and just like, well, not Key so much, but me,

446
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: I just wanted to give up because what I mean,

447
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: what he's like so connected. Anyway, So there's your answer.

448
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: I picked back because I think Gilmore, Page Clapton everybody

449
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: would say the same thing along with Key Scott. Okay,

450
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. So you're from Vancouver

451
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: originally born in Winnipeg and Okay, and how many generations

452
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: have your parents been in your family been in Canada?

453
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: I would say just two. My parents parents were My

454
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: mom's side was Icelandic my middle name is Jens and

455
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: my father's side is Irish English from Birmingham and Belfast.

456
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: On my dad's side, how did they end up in Winnipeg. Um, well,

457
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: they immigrated to Canada as the Astec. As a matter

458
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: of fact, a huge Icelandic community moved to Winnipeg in

459
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: the uh after the I guess after the First World War.

460
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: They immigrated to get out of Iceland. Uh. And it's

461
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: kind of a funny story because they didn't realize how

462
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: cold it was in Winnipeg. It was actually colder in

463
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: Winnipeg than it was in Iceland anyway. But yeah, how

464
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: long did you live in Winnipeg? Tell about sixty eight? Okay,

465
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: so you grew up in Winnipeg. I grew up in Winnipeg.

466
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: My team, the start of the start of my musical

467
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: thing was in Winnipeg. And uh yeah, I mean it

468
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: was the Stones on TV on Ed Sullivan and the

469
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: Beatles and the Monkeys, and just like that whole thing

470
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: for me was great. Actually, my mom drove me to

471
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: the airport with my sisters in her Volkswagen and we

472
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: saw the Beatles get off the plane going to New

473
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: York on the first tour. They came out and waved.

474
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: She drove us to the airport because her girlfriend worked

475
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: at Air Canada. So we went and we saw the

476
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: beatles waving. That's like a standing meawhile, that's quite a

477
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: supportive mother. My mother wouldn't have driven me to Kennedy

478
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: Airport or Idle Wild. It was called Yeah, no, she was.

479
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: She was into it. She was into it. I told

480
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: that to Paul too. He thought it was funny. Did

481
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: he remember waving in Winnipeg? He remembers getting off the

482
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: plane because that was that was where they landed. They

483
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: had to stop there for fuel right to get to

484
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: New York. They couldn't get to New York they went

485
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: over the pole right, so they stopped in Winnipeg. So

486
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: he remembers getting off the plane. He didn't remember me though.

487
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: So what'd your father do for a living in Winnipeg?

488
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: It was an insurance salesman in the insurance business. And

489
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: your mother homemaker or worked outside the homemaker. How many

490
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: kids in the family. I have two sisters, And where

491
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: are you in the hierarchy? I'm middle. I have an

492
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: older sister, really, but that's just like me actually, I'm

493
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: the middle whatever. So okay, how do you uh discover music? Well,

494
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: it had a lot to do with my older sister, Sue.

495
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 1: You know, she actually saw the stones in Winnipeg with

496
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: Brian Jones. Can you imagine? No, I can't imagine. Yeah,

497
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: she saw them there. Yeah, so it was funny because

498
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: she brought music in, you know, and she liked the Beatles,

499
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: So I immediately like the Stones, right because I had

500
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: to be different the animals and Dave Clark five, and

501
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: she loved Beatles anyway, so she brought music in there.

502
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: And then my dad actually got me guitar lessons, uh,

503
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: and that started my journey. And of course the guests

504
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: who were on TV. I was telling this to not

505
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: to drop names, but Van Morrison because he asked me

506
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: the same thing, where are you from? And I was

507
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: saying I was saying that the guests who were big

508
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: rock stars to me because they played all the hits

509
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: every week on a TV show, like they would just

510
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: recreate the hits, right, and so they were so big

511
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: to me, you know, the guests who Okay, did you

512
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: want guitar lessons because you saw the Beatles on TV?

513
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: Or did it predate that or what was the inspiration

514
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: guitar lessons were? Basically it was Keith Richards, Make no mistake.

515
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: I singled him out right away, you know when I

516
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: saw him. I went, I don't know what's going on there,

517
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: but I like it. So I've always wanted to be that.

518
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: You know, well, his sounds are not that easy to

519
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: figure out either, the way does the tunings, etcetera. No,

520
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: but when you know, you know, when you know it,

521
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: it's it's something else. And what's so great about it

522
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: it's signature. Nobody can put that on a record without

523
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: going that's Keith richards thing, right, That's an amazing thing

524
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: that it's so signature his thing. Yeah. I tried all

525
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: the time and it never works. Okay, So you're taking

526
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: guitar lessons, you start with an electric guitar or an acoustic.

527
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: I had an acoustic at first, but I went to

528
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: electric right away. I wanted to know how to play

529
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: an electric guitar. I wanted it to be loud, you know,

530
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: and that's you know once right in the beginning, though,

531
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: I was always into the sounds you know of those records.

532
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: That's that's what is that is kind of that whole

533
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: line for me. It's always about the sonics and why

534
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: does that sound like that? Like? Uh, and so electric

535
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: guitars where I went, um, Yeah, The big point for

536
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: me was actually we moved to Victoria out on the

537
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: West coast, and I guess sixty eight, Okay, So I

538
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: left school and I left all my friends in Winnipeg

539
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: in that whole scene, and moved out to Victoria. Knew

540
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: nobody right, I was playing hockey, blah blah blah. There

541
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: was kind of no hockey out there. You had to

542
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: pay to play hockey, so hockey went. So I was

543
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: alone and I didn't have friends for like a couple

544
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: of years. It was really tough. It was a tough move,

545
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: you know. I hated my dad for it, but it

546
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: ended up being the best thing that ever happened because

547
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: all I did was play guitar and listened to records.

548
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: You know. That's a great lesson that some of those

549
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: things that hurt so much end up being the thing

550
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: that changes your life. And that changed my life. As

551
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: I've come to realize that begs the question, did you

552
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: have a lot of records? Did you have a good stereo.

553
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it was a good stereo, but we

554
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: had a stereo in the house, you know, as my

555
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: parents love music, you know, and my sister had it.

556
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: So we bought as many records. I bought singles. Of course,

557
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: everybody about singles, right, you know, because that's all you

558
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: could really afford. Albums were kind of like a little

559
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: bit more money. You know, had lots of singles. So

560
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: when did you form your first band? In Victoria? We

561
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: were kind of like a doors cover band because we

562
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: couldn't play led Zeppelin doors. It was a little easier

563
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: except for the solos. And how did that come together?

564
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: Are you like the business guy or how did you

565
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: find the other members in the band? Well, we were

566
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: all guys in school together, you know, so we we

567
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: were called the Wine, which is horrible, horrible with y.

568
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: It was just a horrible name. Um. But anyway, um,

569
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: you know when we started, we played the the Sawcops

570
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: in school and did covers and we started getting blues

571
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, so I had many bands and really

572
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: until I moved in Victoria to another place in Lankford.

573
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: That's when I met the guy that I really started

574
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: to hit it off with, a guy named Paul Hyde.

575
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: And it was like grade ten and he was from England.

576
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: So to me that was a guy that you know,

577
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: I had to know. He showed up at the bus stop,

578
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: he had his head shaved and I thought he was

579
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: a skinhead, so I thought, this guy gotta meet. We

580
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: ended up meeting, and oddly enough we just had the

581
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: same love of English blues, in English music and just music,

582
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: and that's when really connected. And we had a band,

583
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: and we had a blues band because blues was was

584
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: a big thing in Victoria. So, so how long did

585
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: you take lessons for? Are you self taught? I took

586
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: lessons to learn how to play, and then it was

587
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: self taught and you didn't have I just listened to records,

588
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: you know. Can you read music today? No? Okay? So

589
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: you get together with Paul Hyde. At what point do

590
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: you say this is what I want to do as

591
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: a career. If you even say that, well, we kind

592
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: of decided. The thing was I went to England when

593
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: I was eighteen. As soon as I finished school, Paul

594
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: and I and the drummer that we had, Billy, we

595
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: went to England to be rock stars. We saved money

596
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: working in restaurants. I had a guitar. We went to

597
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: England and we lasted six months, okay um, and came back. Uh.

598
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: But we were I knew it like the last the

599
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: last year's school. Basically, I don't think I went. As

600
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I know I didn't win. Go

601
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: I should say. All I did was go to Paul's

602
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: house and we just play music. So I knew what

603
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: I was supposed to do. And your parents were cool

604
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: with this, No, they weren't, not whatsoever, my dad particularly. Yeah.

605
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: The greatest thing though that happened. I actually graduated. I

606
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: had a graduation. Okay, this is the greatest thing in

607
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: Canada is that you don't get your marks until after

608
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: you graduate. So everybody goes through the graduation. So I

609
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: went through graduation, didn't get a diploma. And my dad,

610
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: till the day he died, said, did you get your

611
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: marks yet? Bob? I never got He knew, right, but yeah, anyway,

612
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: so he he wasn't keen on the musical thing. But

613
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: there you go. So you come back from England and

614
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: where's the act? Then? Well what happened is I ended

615
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: up getting jobs working in mills, slaughter houses, cardboard box factory,

616
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: doing all sorts of stuff and playing music. But I

617
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: ended up hearing this advertisement on the radio ah and

618
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: saying that there was this course offered in Vancouver for

619
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: six weeks one you know, Saturday, for six weeks, uh,

620
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: and I asked my parents if they would give me

621
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: the money to do it. So it was basically I

622
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: went over to Vancouver six saturdays in a row and

623
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: I learned basic engineering okay, And because of that, what

624
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: happened there? Um, the guy that was teaching the course, uh,

625
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: offered me a job at a little mountain. You know,

626
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: I was the guide. I wait, wait, how many kids

627
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: were in the class and how come you got the job? Well,

628
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why I got the job. I was

629
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: the only one that wasn't scared to make a mistake.

630
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: Every time he said who wants to try? And it

631
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: was always I'll do it, even though I didn't know

632
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: what I was doing. But I got the job because

633
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: I was the only guy that would say, I don't

634
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: care what if I make a mistake. I just want

635
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: to do it. That's why I got my job, which

636
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: started my entire career. So it's a very good lesson

637
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: just put yourself out there. Okay. So you immediately moved

638
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: to Vancouver and you start working a little mountain I suppose.

639
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: And where does that Where does that leave you as

640
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: a player with Paul Hodg Well, he went off, he

641
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: stayed in England and moved to Toronto, and then he

642
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: ended up in Vancouver. When I started at a little

643
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: mountain and right then punk music came happened, okay, in

644
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: the late seventies. I started at a little mountain in

645
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: seventy six, okay, and about seventy eight we started, Uh,

646
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: we were playing and stuff. But then when punk broke

647
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 1: um and it's kind of an interesting thing looking back

648
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: at it. What happened is looking back at it when

649
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: I look back, and the punk documentary that Vervados Niggy

650
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: Pop did is an excellent documentary and it shows exactly

651
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: kind of what happened. A lot of people in that scene.

652
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to be playing clubs and stuff because

653
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: we weren't that good, right, But all of a sudden,

654
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: with punk, we could play clubs, right because we only

655
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: knew three chords and played fast and loud, and actually

656
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: we could make records. Well. I worked at a studio,

657
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: so Paul and I started to write songs and that's

658
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: how we learned how to I learned how to put

659
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 1: it together. Okay. So that was punk music gave us

660
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: that foot in the door we didn't want. We weren't

661
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: into anarchy or anything. We just wanted to make records

662
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: and punk music allowed us to learn how to make records.

663
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: So the first song we wrote, China Boys, we put

664
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: it out a thousand copies. We got signed to I R.

665
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: S Records on one song. We got signed on the

666
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: first song we wrote, I'm not kidding you. Ok, how

667
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: did that happen? Well, this guy somebody, because we sold

668
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: the foul and and it it became kind of a

669
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: hit in the Vancouver scene, and then everybody heard it

670
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: in Toronto, so A and M. This guy Michael got in.

671
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: He signed us for an EP and he said do

672
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: you have any more songs? And we said, yeah, we

673
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: got lots. We had nothing. As soon as we left

674
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 1: the meeting, we wrote songs. We wrote four more songs

675
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: and put out an EP and that did kind of

676
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: okay in Canada, and so we got an album deal

677
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: with with I R. S. J. Boberg. He signed us

678
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: and R. E. M at the same time. The same

679
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: week he signed us, it was then called the Paolas. Yes,

680
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: worst name ever. So what's the story of the name. Well,

681
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: we thought we thought it was really kind of funny,

682
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: poking at the Payola scandal, right we thought that was

683
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: very punk. Right. There's this famous uh radio guy, Charlie Minor.

684
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: You probably heard of him, right, And he said yeah,

685
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: and I do. We know him really well. And he

686
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: said to us one day, he says, you know, guys,

687
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: I love your music, but your name. I can never

688
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: do anything to help you because that is just an

689
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 1: insult to what I do. Let's go have some dinner.

690
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: And he says that dollar signed at the end is

691
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: such an insult. Anyway, I saw him two days before

692
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: he was shot. It was very weird, but okay, you

693
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: have the peel those what do you do for the

694
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: rest of the band were just fine players. We made

695
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: our first album. We actually asked, uh, we're big fan

696
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: Bowie fans, and Mick Ronson was the guy that we

697
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: wanted to produce our first record. We sent him all

698
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: the demos and we didn't hear back, so I ended

699
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: up just doing it myself, which was a big mistake,

700
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: you know. But what was great is Mick Ronson phone

701
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 1: back nine months later and says, I really like your demos.

702
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: There was actually the demos for the first album, and

703
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: we had already started writing for the second album, so

704
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: he actually league came to Vancouver and he produced our

705
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: Second Experience or Bad Experience with Ronson. Yeah, Oh, Mick

706
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: Ronson is the biggest influence on my production and as

707
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: a musician period. You know, working with him changed everything.

708
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 1: He was such he did two albums with us and

709
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: actually toured with us. But I'll tell you the best

710
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: thing I can tell you. Mc Ron's story is so

711
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: Eyes of a Stranger. I told you about buying the

712
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: drum machine, blah blah blah blah, and I actually recorded

713
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: the whole track as a demo. So he comes in

714
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: and he listens to all the song and he's saying, Okay,

715
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: we've gotta do this, so this is great. I play

716
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: him the track of Eyes of a Stranger with Paul

717
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: with the rib vocal. He goes, we're not going to

718
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: get better than that, so let's keep that track. I'm

719
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: just gonna overdub some keyboards. In other words, he just

720
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: he didn't have to rerecord it. He just said, that's great.

721
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: So we did an at it to fix it. He

722
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: put keyboards on it. I mixed it at the power station,

723
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 1: and it's our biggest song that taught me a lesson.

724
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 1: It's like he didn't have to change anything. He heard

725
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: that it was good by itself and that a lot

726
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: of people don't do that. Most people would just go like, well,

727
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: we got to re record it. He went, no, that's great.

728
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: That's just a simple story about him. I could tell you.

729
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: We could talk for hours about him. Well, give me

730
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: one more story. Well, he he taught us. He taught

731
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: us like, there was a couple of songs where you know,

732
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 1: he would say, this is a great song, but let's

733
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: see if we can find the home for the song,

734
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: and we're going like, what do you mean the home?

735
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: In other words, he heard the song, but it wasn't

736
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: done the right way. So we had this great song.

737
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: I was really into Darkness on the Edge of Town,

738
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: the Springsteen song, so I basically mimic kind of that feel.

739
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: And he said it's a little kind of hard, and

740
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: he said the lyric isn't like that. So he ended

741
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: up playing a piano part and we did this. It's

742
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: called Hastings Street. It's about the skid row in Vancouver,

743
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: and he changed it and it went to a place

744
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: that is beautiful and it's an incredible song and a

745
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: credible track. So he taught that to us that no

746
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: matter what you do, and I still believe this is

747
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: whatever you need. Inspiration was to write a song, write it,

748
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: and then you find the home. A lot of people

749
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: get stuck where they write that demo and there it's precious.

750
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: They don't want to change it. But sometimes there's a

751
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: song there, but it's just not done right. So he

752
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: showed me that. But the greatest thing I'll tell you

753
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: we we did a tour after the second album we

754
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: did with them, and we didn't have a keyboard player,

755
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: and we had a tour to open up for Split

756
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: Ends in Canada, the whole Canadian tour um and he says, well,

757
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: I'll play keyboards for you, And so he came on

758
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: the whole tour with us. And the first night we

759
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: were playing in Victoria and sound check can Split Ends

760
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: around the side of the stage and they're going like

761
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: is that So he was, Yeah, he did the whole

762
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: tour with us. That's the kind of guy he was. Okay,

763
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: that makes a question. I mean, everything's changed today, but

764
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: prior to this decimation of recording royalties and budgets, are

765
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: you the type of guy? You know? The Stones legendarily

766
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: rode in the studio. So you're the kind of producer

767
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: where you want the material firsture, you want to work

768
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: in pre production or every act is different. I think

769
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: every act is different, you know, the whole thing of

770
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: writing in the studio. Uh, it's a luxury. Always has

771
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: been a luxury, you know, the best thing. You know, Like,

772
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: for instance, it was everything I've done I learned because

773
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: of Bruce Fairburn and because of you know, how he worked.

774
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: I learned the fact that you do pre production. Pre

775
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: production is key no matter what. All the all the

776
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: album albums that I've done has always been that, or

777
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: there's a demo to go from. Some people do demos

778
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: and then you can just go from there. But for

779
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: the most part, you always want to do pre production

780
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: before you go into the studio. And what is your

781
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: pre production look like? Well, it's changed because everybody, like

782
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: I said, now on computers, people are kind of making demos,

783
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, so you can really just work with the

784
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: demo and go from there. Uh. But you know, you

785
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: just you talk. For instance, it's like with bands in particular,

786
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 1: you know, and it was like with Metallica, they never

787
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: played in the same room when they made a record.

788
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: So to me, I said, but that's how I make records.

789
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: And I explained to him, I said, well, that's because

790
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: you never know if you change the beat in the

791
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: in the verse or something, change it later, you know,

792
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: so you've got to get a you gotta get a

793
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: kind of like, uh, you got to get an idea

794
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: of what's going on. And you know, the tempo means

795
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: so much difference, makes so much difference, like one beat

796
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: to find the pocket where you know, like the Black

797
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: album is a pocket album. All the fields are like

798
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: we worked on it to find the right tempo, and

799
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,959
Speaker 1: we stayed there, you know, so that that was it,

800
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: and so we spent time. And that's that's the difference.

801
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 1: You go in when you know you've got it in shape,

802
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: you've got the arrangement right, and you've looked at what

803
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: the base is doing with the kick. You just go

804
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: through everything. And you do that in the room and

805
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: you can just make a cassette with one microphone and

806
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: that's fine to kind of work until you get into

807
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: the studio. So that's what we did, you know, and

808
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: I do that. How much reproduction did you do for

809
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: the Black Album? I was probably there for two weeks,

810
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: you know, and we went through every song, and you know,

811
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: they were warming up to me and me warming up

812
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: to them. You know. I think the first time we

813
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: had lunch, I was in one room and they were

814
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: in the other room type thing. By the end we

815
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: were all in the same room. They were you know,

816
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: you know, with a band like that, they were so intense,

817
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, and they were so they had that club,

818
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: the Metallica club that they were in. It was hard

819
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: to get into the club. It took a long time.

820
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 1: And how long did it take to actually record the record?

821
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: Fourteen fifteen months? And how did you get the gig?

822
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: They wanted me to mix the record because they really

823
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 1: liked the sound of the Motley album. They didn't like Motley,

824
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: but they loved the Doctor Field Good album the sonically

825
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: and they so they came up to see me in

826
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 1: Vancouver and they brought cassettes of the songs and they played,

827
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: you know, they played the material and it did not

828
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: sound like the Justice album, which I knew. And actually

829
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: just so you know that that just before that, I

830
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: saw Metallica because Sonic Temple, I did the Sonic Temple

831
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: album and the cult warmed up on this, uh Justice tour,

832
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: so I stayed and watched Metallic and I went, their

833
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: records don't sound anything like they sound live. They were

834
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: so big and powerful, so I made a mental note.

835
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: Any Anyway, they they said they loved the sound of

836
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: the bigness and the weight of the the Molly Crue album.

837
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: So they came up to Vancouver. You had a meeting,

838
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: and when I heard the songs, it's like, you know,

839
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: Saba true was to me was like the Levy Breaks.

840
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: It had that feel. It was there, Sam Man was there,

841
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: all the fields were there, um and so basically we

842
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: started talking and a couple of things happened that we're

843
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: pretty funny. Uh. We had dinner that night and I

844
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: could see that they were looking at the bus boy

845
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: that was looking at the table right. He finally came

846
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: over and he said, excuse me, are you Bob Rock?

847
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: Can I get my your autograph? I didn't ask them

848
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: for and they they thought that was hilarious. They thought

849
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: that was hilarious. So that was breaking the ice. They

850
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 1: had no idea, the guy had no idea who they were, right,

851
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: but because of the pail is it was. It was

852
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: pretty funny. So there was the moments that basically we

853
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: just talked about music, and that didn't hear from them,

854
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they said, come on and

855
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: let's get going. There you go. Did you have any

856
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: idea the album would be an interstand Man would be

857
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: as big as they ultimately were. No, No, not at all.

858
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: When I said conceptualizing albums, I mean really, the thing

859
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: is is what we just saw did It's like, because

860
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: you know, the basic tracks and the fields were there.

861
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 1: A lot of people think I changed that, and I didn't.

862
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: It was always there. If you listen to the demos

863
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: that have been released, the songs are there. But what

864
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: I did is I changed basically the approach of how

865
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: to record. Okay, so um, you know, it took a

866
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: while to get to get going and then it just

867
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 1: became work, which is like we we decided that we

868
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: weren't going to compromise in any way, shape or form

869
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: on anything. So the drums sound took three weeks. You know,

870
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 1: the bass sound like James's guitar. We built a room

871
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: specially for to get this sound that you know, I

872
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out. We built a room to have this

873
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: certain resonance, which is part of the sound. Everything was.

874
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: There was no compromise on what they wanted, and I

875
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: was there as the guy that kind of went, well,

876
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 1: I know how to sort of do this. Let's worked

877
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: together and do it. So that's I was the guy

878
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: that kind of like helped them learn how to record

879
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: what they wanted because of the experience that I had.

880
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 1: So you know, uh, that's why it took along, and

881
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 1: that's that's what we did. So in the end, we're

882
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: so tired of each other that we said we went

883
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: and had a bottle of wine. After Randy stab and

884
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: James and Lars we finished mastering and we're just like,

885
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: it's been fun, don't call me, never want to see

886
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: you again. And we all walked our separate ways, you know.

887
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I was playing my band

888
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: was playing at Club Soda and Vancouver. It came on.

889
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: I went, wow, people kind of like this. Who knew? Okay?

890
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: So how did uh peale Is morph into rock and Hide? Well,

891
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: we did a record that wasn't us that the record

892
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: company made us use a producer that we really didn't

893
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: want to use. I'm not going to name names, but

894
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: and it kind of ruined the band. And so Paul

895
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: and I, who basically wrote all the songs and did

896
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: it pretty much everything. We reformed it and we got

897
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: signed to E M I in England for Rock and Hide,

898
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: so it just became the two of us. Yeah, and

899
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: we kind of used some of the guys in the

900
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: Palis as the band. Yeah. So tell me about morphing

901
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: from being a player to being a studio guy. The

902
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: thing with the Pale is in my career as a

903
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: writer and a guitar player kind of were was running

904
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: parallel with learning how to make records. So and what

905
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: I realized and and it just to go back with

906
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: all the guys that I loved, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton

907
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Page, I could never play like them. So

908
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: I found this guy that wasn't like that him and

909
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: his name was Pete town It. And Pete Townsend was

910
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: a songwriter and he played rhythm guitar that I just

911
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: got chivers talking about it because I've met and I

912
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: told him that changed everything for me because I realized

913
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: I didn't have to be a ship hot lead player.

914
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: I just had to play rhythm like Pete Townsend. Okay,

915
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,479
Speaker 1: So that was the guy that made me decide that

916
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: I was more about the record and writing and sounds

917
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: and being Pete Townsend and Keith Richards who was one

918
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: of the greatest rhythm players as well. Okay does great

919
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: lead work, so does Pete Townsend. But there you know

920
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: what I mean. So that was absolutely Pete was in

921
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: my brain when you were talking about was so funny

922
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: you mentioned it. Yeah, No, that is seeing and you know,

923
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,879
Speaker 1: like the Who were just so big for me as well,

924
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: because that's you know it and you know, we started

925
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: with I can see for miles and just like my

926
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: generation and stuff. And I had dinner with Shell. Tell me,

927
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: by the way, that's something I haven't done. No, it

928
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: was I had dinner with him after I did a

929
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 1: thing at south By Southwest the panel. I only went

930
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 1: because he was on the panel and and so I

931
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: I kind of met him over the video or whatever.

932
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 1: But this guy, Mike Jacobs set it up and I

933
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: had dinner with him. I just like I was in

934
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: heaven talking about the Who. He had just an amazing guy. Anyway,

935
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: So the Who, what did he tell you about making

936
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: those records? Well, he you know, he said how he

937
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: got the gig, you know, and he said he was

938
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: in he was an engineer in l a. He's American.

939
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: He went to England on holiday and we just went.

940
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: He had a friend at Decoration Records in London and

941
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: he and he said, he was just hanging around the

942
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: Decca office and this guy came in with an Asceta

943
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 1: Ray Davies and he had an ascetate which is basically

944
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: a demo, and nobody wanted to hear it, so he said,

945
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: I'll listen to it. He listened to it and he says,

946
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: I want to record you. That's how he got the

947
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: Kinks gig by being there, just by luck. He recorded

948
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: that Pete Townsend heard you know, you really got me.

949
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: I want Shell tell me? And Shell tell Me changed

950
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: the way the who recorded because Shell, being American, he

951
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 1: used multiple mics okay, and most of the English engineers

952
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: were using just three or four mikes on drums. Shell

953
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 1: tell Me set up all these mics with Keith moon

954
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: and on the guitar and they were in heaven and

955
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: that's my generation and I'm going like, I was just

956
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: like this is amazing. Yeah, you know, and we just

957
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: had the greatest time talking about you know, because his

958
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 1: career just lasted too. I think Waterloo Sunset with the

959
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: Kinks or whatever, and then they moved on. But his

960
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: career and what he did for kind of rock music

961
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: is just unbelievable, the impact he had with that kind

962
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: of recording, etcetera. All on the fact that he went

963
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: to England for a vacation, he stayed in London. An

964
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: American guy. So going back to your career, how do

965
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: you decide to go get off the stage and switch

966
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: sides in the studio Bruce Allen. Bruce Allen managed the

967
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: Paolas and and Bruce says, because I was the engineer

968
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: with Loverboy and Prism, I've I knew Bruce like America.

969
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: The day I got my job at Little Mountain, was

970
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: sitting in the waiting room and all of a sudden

971
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: the doors December six six the door swung open and

972
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: this guy with a full length for coat, Oh, open

973
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: the door and just like walk by me and beat

974
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: ore in the studio and I went to the reception

975
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: who's that And she said that's Bruce Allen and I

976
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: went and it never That guy ended up managing me

977
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: and he's my closest friend to this day. That's over

978
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: forty years Bruce Allen has been in my life. But

979
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: Bruce told me I did a rock and high gig

980
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: at the tour and he said rock. He says, you

981
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: gotta stop doing this. Okay, you're a producer. You're you're

982
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: a producer. You've got to be a producer. Let me

983
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: manage you as a producer. And he says, I'm not

984
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: going to tell him. I'll tell you what he said. Yes,

985
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: I will tell you said. He says, you got to

986
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: lose the dumb broths and you got to just listen

987
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: to me, and you're gonna make some money. And actually

988
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: the thing he that he did, the first thing he did,

989
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: I had met my wife just after that, Angie, So

990
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: I lost the dumb broads and got a great woman.

991
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: She actually she got me. But uh. And then Bruce

992
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 1: Um with Slippery when wet Um Bruce Fevern had a deal.

993
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: He said, just before that, we've done Honeymoon Sweet. He says,

994
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: the next record, you're going to get a point on

995
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: the record. The next record was Slippery. He didn't give

996
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: me the point. Okay, okay, the next So the next

997
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: record I did was Aerosmith Permanent Vacation, and I was

998
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: making for Slippery. I made ten thousand Canadian, which is

999
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: American engineers were getting twenty American Okay. So on Permianity Vacation,

1000
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: Bruce Feveryon says, we can't afford to give you ten thousand.

1001
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: We can only give you eight. And then I went,

1002
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: this is not gonna be my future. Okay. So after

1003
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: that I went on to I left the Permanent I

1004
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: didn't mix the Permanent Vacation record. I was on tour

1005
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,479
Speaker 1: with Rock and Hide. I had to go on tour,

1006
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: and at the end of that tour, Bruce says, I

1007
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: told her the story. The next record. I got to

1008
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: Dramba Jovi wanted to Bruce Fevert and I to do

1009
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: the New Jersey record. Bruce Allen said, Rock ain't doing it.

1010
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: John says, but I really want Rock to do it.

1011
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: Bruce got me paid the New Jersey album on one

1012
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: point on ten million Rockords, ten million records. Cash Angie

1013
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: and I about our first house. That's Bruce Allen. Okay.

1014
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if you could say all that, but

1015
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: that is Bruce Allen. He changed my life. And he's

1016
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: the guy that said be a producer, that's what you're

1017
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: good at, and you know, the rest is history. He's

1018
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,439
Speaker 1: the reason why you know Metallica. You know, we had

1019
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: Louis made the decision. He helped put that together. You know,

1020
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: he's like like said my best friend, and uh yeah huge. Okay, okay,

1021
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: So but you talked at some point playing club Soda.

1022
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: When did you literally stopped playing with the band erws

1023
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: that really never died After Rock and Hide, I had

1024
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: while I was doing the Black album, actually did a

1025
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: rock album, Rockhead. And it was because just because I

1026
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: was in l A a lot and I started writing

1027
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: music and for whatever reason, I want to make a

1028
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: rock album. I didn't want to be like a new

1029
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: wave guy. So I made a rock album and I

1030
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: was you know, so I made a rock album, and

1031
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: so I ended up touring Europe. We opened up for

1032
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: bon Jovi. Okay, did European tour, and I realized that

1033
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: that I should just produce. I just couldn't deal with

1034
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: that anymore. I couldn't deal with because you know, it

1035
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: was like, uh, you know, all the US all they

1036
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,439
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about what was Metallica because the Black

1037
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: Album came out right and I went, this is this

1038
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: is just not me. So I ended up making records,

1039
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: which I love doing. So there you go. And so

1040
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: what did you learn from Bruce Fearburn. I learned Bruce

1041
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: is really his pluses were, uh, it took me a

1042
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: while to learn. His greatest thing was like he didn't

1043
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: really he was never a fan of bands, like in

1044
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: other words, he didn't really like to me, Aerosmith walked

1045
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: in the room and and it was like I was

1046
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: a fan. I mean, I was like Joe, Barry, Steven Tyler,

1047
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: They're in front of me. I'm in the stud there

1048
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: in front of me, and it meant nothing to Bruce.

1049
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: They were just a band. So he could say, like,

1050
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: we're in the middle of a take, and he always

1051
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: went for dinner at five o'clock. If we're in the

1052
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: middle of the take, he'd say, I'm going for dinner,

1053
01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: he'd leave. And so that he had control with those guys. Okay,

1054
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: he had ultimate control with over Stephen and Joe and

1055
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: the band. Okay, that kind of thing. In other words,

1056
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: his scheduling was amazing, and he made them work, and

1057
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: he made them work hard. That's what he was great.

1058
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: And he had this outside because he wasn't. He did

1059
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: his homework on Aerosmith and he brought the best parts

1060
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: to the the project, much like bon Jovi. You know,

1061
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 1: he recognized what we had, this way of working, the

1062
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,959
Speaker 1: two of us, and and so he taught me a lot.

1063
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: What he taught me is as he actually gave me

1064
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 1: my first job. Besides the job at the studio, The

1065
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: first guy to believe in me was Bruce Fairburn. He

1066
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: asked me to do the Prism album. And he asked

1067
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: me because he wanted to change up and he had

1068
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: heard this the kind of the punk stuff that I

1069
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: had done and it was raw. So he hired me.

1070
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: So he gave me a shot. He kind of started

1071
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: my career and it was he managed by Bruce in

1072
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: the end, but he he was prison, was managed by Bruce.

1073
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: Bruce Fabrin was in prison, and Jim Valence was in

1074
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: prison and in an earlier band that turned into prison.

1075
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: So that's why they wrote the songs in the Prism album.

1076
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: So it's all tied in. Well, I guess what I'm

1077
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: asking is if Bruce managed Bruce and you, how come

1078
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: you couldn't get the point? Uh, he wasn't managing Bruce

1079
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: at the time. He managed Bruce later. Okay, so uh

1080
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: do you know Slippery win Wet is going to be

1081
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: Slippery Win wet. What do you mean when did we know?

1082
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you're making that record, an iconic record by far,

1083
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: the best bon Jovie record. You know, wanted Dead or Alive?

1084
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: First time I heard that, never mind Living on a

1085
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,919
Speaker 1: Prayer and you give love a bad Did you say,

1086
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 1: holy fuck, we have something here, Fabride and I. At

1087
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: the end of that, we finished, the benches left and

1088
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: we were in the control room and we're kind of

1089
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: going like, hopefully this is gonna go gold, so we

1090
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:17,479
Speaker 1: get another gig. And we knew and we thought Living

1091
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: on a Prayer was probably you never want to say,

1092
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: there's this thing. You never want to say that's a hit,

1093
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: because it always seems to you never go that way.

1094
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: But we knew Leving on a Prayer was really strong.

1095
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 1: But we had no idea. I mean that when that

1096
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: was triple platinum in like three months, we had no idea.

1097
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: So let's say, uh, you realize you have an eleven

1098
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: in a song whatever. If you realize that, whether it

1099
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: be in pre production or recording, does that steward away

1100
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 1: from being eleven? What I mean is, do you become

1101
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 1: so self conscious that you can't nail it? Then? No, no,

1102
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: not not really because this is the Beauty of Bruce Fabron.

1103
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: That was a six week album. Okay, that was there's

1104
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: only one guitar track, one keyboard track, all caught live.

1105
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: I I mixed it in a week, the whole record,

1106
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, and it was like so there was no

1107
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: time to even think about it. You you're just I

1108
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: was just doing my job. I was learning. You see,

1109
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: this is the whole thing all through that we've talked about,

1110
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: and there's there's more. I'm still learning, Bob. I'm still

1111
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 1: being schooled. Van Morrison schooled me to death, you know

1112
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: when I worked with him. You know, constantly I'm learning,

1113
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: And through all of that I was learning. So I

1114
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: never ever thought that it was eleven and I'm scared

1115
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 1: to do it. I was just trying to do the best, okay,

1116
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: but I was really referring to now when you are

1117
01:06:54,000 --> 01:07:00,479
Speaker 1: the producer. Uh so, what do you mean solo king back.

1118
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example of my own life. If

1119
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: I'm writing something and I realize it's incredible, it's just

1120
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: something fires in my brain, then it ends up not

1121
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: being incredible because I'm self conscious. Now the nature of

1122
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: writing the way I do it, You're write it it's done.

1123
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: A song is a whole thing, usually have pre production, etcetera.

1124
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: So do you say, ever when something is really phenomenal,

1125
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: you don't want to fuck it up? But are you

1126
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 1: so self conscious that it's hard to get it right? Well?

1127
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: As a producer, the thing the thing is is, here's

1128
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: I think. What I learned from Bruce Fairburn and just

1129
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 1: making records for a long time is I don't stop

1130
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: trying to make something great until the artist says, until

1131
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 1: the artist is happy, not even the record company. If

1132
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: the artist says this is the best I can be,

1133
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: and I say, this is the best I can be,

1134
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: It's done, and I'm okay with it. I mean, I

1135
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: can listen to every record I've done, and I know

1136
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: all the flaws. I even know all the punches for

1137
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: on Slippery that I made. I can still hear the punches.

1138
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: I hear all the flaws. But now I listened to

1139
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: it as a whole, and I'm going like, as a whole,

1140
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,640
Speaker 1: it's great. You can always like it's that thing. As

1141
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,719
Speaker 1: I was telling about Dexter and Ritchie with the time

1142
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: off they're listening, we can change this. You always think

1143
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: you can do better, but realistically it ends up being

1144
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: what I said when I said I compared my mix

1145
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 1: to uh, working for a weekend. I'm that guy, and

1146
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: this is the way it's going to end up sounding. Okay,

1147
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: different band, different kind of species, whatever, uh, different people,

1148
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: but it always ends up sounding the way I hear

1149
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: it when it. When I go like, this sounds great

1150
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: and the artist says this sounds great, We're done. I'm

1151
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: okay with it. Whatever happens. Okay, how does the Black

1152
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: Album change your life? Well? I live in Hawaii, okay.

1153
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 1: But in terms of offers and things like that, well,

1154
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean I got a lot of offers, but I

1155
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: kind of win, you see, because I'm a rock guy.

1156
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm not a highavy metal guy, you know. And that's

1157
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: what I think, you know, the perspective, Like in other words,

1158
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 1: if I was a fan of metallic and I was

1159
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: a metal guy, wouldn't have been the same. Okay, So

1160
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 1: I got lots of offers. There was a couple of

1161
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: things and stuff. But when you do the best and

1162
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: the biggest, where do you go? Do you know what

1163
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 1: I mean? That's the way I looked at it, like

1164
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:53,879
Speaker 1: who's And besides, they were demanding and I spent fifteen

1165
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: years of my life working with Metallica. So it wasn't

1166
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: like I needed more work, you know what I mean

1167
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: if you think about was like, if you think about

1168
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: like all the stuff that we did for fifteen years,

1169
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 1: I you know, I just did an album a year

1170
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: or two as well as a matter of got a

1171
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: little worrisome that I wasn't doing anything, you know, outside

1172
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: of them, you know, which is why, you know, the

1173
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,680
Speaker 1: relationships kind of end. I had to move on and

1174
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 1: do something I just didn't want to say, set up

1175
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: the same set of drums, and you know what I mean.

1176
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: It gets kind of old, absolutely, but yeah, you know,

1177
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,559
Speaker 1: sometimes you just got to move on. Let's go back

1178
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: to the lover Boy. The sound on Turn Me Loose,

1179
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,719
Speaker 1: that whole record is just unbelievable. What do you remember

1180
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: about that experience? It was big, like lover Boy, we're

1181
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: the best band in Vancouver, and when we came to

1182
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: do the album, I mean, Paul Eaton, the guitar player,

1183
01:10:56,280 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: busted my balls constantly about sonics. But I learned so

1184
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 1: much about because he walked in and he had the

1185
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,520
Speaker 1: guitar that he put together himself. He had this amplifier.

1186
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: This is his speaker. This is my sound recorded, do

1187
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Nobody before that had ever

1188
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: had that, like, this is my sound, just like Brian

1189
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 1: May has a sound, Jimmy Page has a sound, you

1190
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: know what I mean. He was the first guy that

1191
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: really ever put that in my head, and he had

1192
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: ideas about how to do that, so he pushed me.

1193
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: And everything I've done, Bob, is because the people like

1194
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,759
Speaker 1: the sound of the drums on Motley Crue, the sounds

1195
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: on Metallica. Those guys pushed me. And when everything I've

1196
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: done that's good is when guys push me, they make

1197
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: me out of get me out of my comfortable zone

1198
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: and make me work. Paul Dene made me work. And

1199
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:52,640
Speaker 1: a funny thing, really funny about teremy loose, right, so

1200
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: turn me loose. He he kept referring to the Pat

1201
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: Banatar album that Mike Chapman had done, right, going like,

1202
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: we gotta sound like this. We got a sounding like that,

1203
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm just doing my best to get

1204
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:07,840
Speaker 1: it sound as great as as I possibly could. And um,

1205
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: years later, I did a this band called Spider Okay,

1206
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: and and tok Fig was in the band Okay and

1207
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: he uh, he was working with Mike Chapman and the

1208
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 1: band when they recorded they had the first lover Boy

1209
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: album and they were busting the engineer's bolts sound. So

1210
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: that's what I mean about that time, Like the competition thing.

1211
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 1: It's like I was trying to get what they were

1212
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,639
Speaker 1: doing and they were trying to get what I had done.

1213
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. How did you get the gig

1214
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 1: with Motley Crue? Basically, DC McGhee, it was the records

1215
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 1: that I had done, like the Kingdom Come album, the

1216
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: Sonic Temple album. The bands heard that and kind of

1217
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: in DC McGhee said, you know, working with bon Jovi.

1218
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: You know, he just said you should have a meeting.

1219
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 1: So I took a meeting. And when I took a

1220
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 1: meeting with him, I was at Tommy's house and they're

1221
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 1: all sober, you know, and this that's that was my

1222
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: momlot crew thing, and you know, and I basically did

1223
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: what I said. We did pre production and we worked

1224
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: hard a pre production and then we went to Vancouver.

1225
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: I said, I recorded a little mountain, and they knew

1226
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 1: about a little mountain, so we didn't have a problem there.

1227
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 1: And we just worked hard and I had a sober

1228
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,680
Speaker 1: band to the end. Well, you know it was a

1229
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,919
Speaker 1: huge step forward for them. So you keep mentioning Van Morrison,

1230
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: how did you give that gig and what was that experience? Like?

1231
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: He did a duets album and Michael Booble. He asked

1232
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 1: Michael to do a duet with him, so he did Real,

1233
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 1: Real Gone and we did a track. We recorded his

1234
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 1: band in Birmingham live, so uh, I recorded Michael and

1235
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: I had to go record Fans Vocal, so I went

1236
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: to his session. He was already working on the duets

1237
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:56,600
Speaker 1: thing and I spent the day and oddly enough I

1238
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: didn't record Fans Vocal because they did this trick. They said, Bob,

1239
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: why don't you go for lunch Van, I'll be here

1240
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: in an hour. Well I left, Van came in, sang

1241
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: the vocal, and I got back and they already done it. Anyway,

1242
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 1: I ended up spending the day and we talked and

1243
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: then he heard the mix that I did, so he

1244
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: phoned me and he said would you come to England

1245
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: and mixed the rest of the record, and I went yeah,

1246
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 1: and he ended up. I ended up doing a song

1247
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: with George Benson. We caught a song I produced it

1248
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: with Van and I mixed the whole record, and I

1249
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: mean recording the song that I did with George Benson

1250
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 1: and him. He schooled me like he's a first take guy, right,

1251
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 1: and if you know, he won't do a second take.

1252
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: So we did the track George Benson. I didn't know

1253
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: the lyrics, so I said, Van, you know George sang,

1254
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: but he was He wasn't saying the lyrics and stuff,

1255
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 1: and I said, we got to do another one. He says, nah,

1256
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: we can't do what I said, But you know, what

1257
01:14:58,360 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: are we gonna do? I said we should do one

1258
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 1: and he says, okay, I'll do one. So he did

1259
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: one and it sounded great and George sounded great, and

1260
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: Van said, uh, first one. So I had to repair

1261
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,639
Speaker 1: George right. And he was right because the first take

1262
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: was magic and it was kind of like, you know,

1263
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 1: just seeing him and and just like he's so on

1264
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:22,560
Speaker 1: and I had some great moments I gotta tell you

1265
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 1: about after that. Um. So we did that song and

1266
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:28,879
Speaker 1: we mixed that, mixed the whole record, and he invited

1267
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: me to go to Montserrat uh No Mantro for the

1268
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: Jazz festival because he wanted to cut a song with

1269
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 1: Dr John. So it flies me from here to Mantro

1270
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:44,640
Speaker 1: or at the jazz festival. So actually I forget the

1271
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 1: song that we're doing. But so I go to the

1272
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: stewards set everything up and it's Dr Jones band because

1273
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:53,640
Speaker 1: that's how the duets thing. It's whoever the artist is,

1274
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: it's their band. They do the arrangement. So we get there,

1275
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 1: I meet Dr John, which is a thrill. I'm there,

1276
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: I get it there early, he's there. I get to

1277
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 1: meet him. He was just like it was surreal. So

1278
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: we get there and his Dr John's ranger wrote a

1279
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 1: really complicated horn section chart okay for for actually Van's

1280
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 1: horn guys because they didn't have the full horn section

1281
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 1: with Dr John. So we get there, I've got Dr John,

1282
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 1: a piano, Van singing live. We're cutting the track and

1283
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 1: Van hates the horn that Van's guys couldn't play the

1284
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: horn chart because it was too complicated. So Van says

1285
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:38,640
Speaker 1: the horn charts wrong. Max says, no, they're right. They

1286
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 1: get into an argument. They're swearing in it. I'm in

1287
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: the middle of the two of them, these two icons,

1288
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: and they're swearing and they're yelling at each other and

1289
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:54,640
Speaker 1: everybody just leaves. It all blew up and that, and

1290
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: it didn't get finished because of that. Literally none of

1291
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 1: the finished never finished it. Van, just like because of

1292
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 1: that happened, No, not gonna work on it. Everybody just

1293
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:13,759
Speaker 1: walked out. They flew me into it. Yeah, but anyway,

1294
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: so that was that was a bit disappointing. But the

1295
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: day before that, Van phone me and said, I want

1296
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,520
Speaker 1: to take you to lunch, Bob, and were like, okay.

1297
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: So we went for lunch at the uh the hotel

1298
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: right on the lake, just him and I and his

1299
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 1: his day to day girl and Van and I talked

1300
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 1: about music for three hours and it was one of

1301
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 1: the highlights of my life. Highlights of my life. He

1302
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: talked about everybody, He talked about Winnipeg, and he told

1303
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: me a funny story. I don't know if you can

1304
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 1: use it though. You can't use it because who are

1305
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: we going to piss off? Well, I guess, well it's

1306
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: a funny story anyway, I'll let you would say. But

1307
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 1: he told me. I told him about Burton Comes, and

1308
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 1: I said, Burton Coming, you know, to me was a

1309
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 1: rock star and said he had a cape And Van said, well,

1310
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 1: I had a cape, and I wonder what. He said. Yeah,

1311
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: when I lived in l A. I got this girl

1312
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: to make me these custom clothes. And you know, she

1313
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: made all these you know things. And if you look

1314
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 1: at the uh what is it the band video, the

1315
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: live one, you know, um right, the filmore right, the

1316
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: last one, he's wearing a jumpsuit. Right, he's anyway, he's

1317
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 1: the best part of the movie. But so and he goes, yeah,

1318
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: he said, I had a green cape. She made me

1319
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: a green velvet cape. She said yeah. And he said,

1320
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: you know, you know I go to the Whiskey Goog

1321
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 1: all the time, and you know, i'd wear the cape

1322
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: and my velvet clothes and and he says, I love

1323
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 1: the whiskey, says I love the way that all the

1324
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: girls danced there because they just moved their arms and

1325
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I said, then you gotta come to

1326
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: me because they still dance like that. You gotta come,

1327
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, the freak dancing. Anyway, So we talked about

1328
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:12,720
Speaker 1: that and and he told many many stories, like just

1329
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,600
Speaker 1: talked about music and where about p J. Proby. I

1330
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 1: didn't know about that, and we uh, he just you know,

1331
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: he told me the story about that, and he talked

1332
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 1: about Bruce because he had met Bruce and Bruce is

1333
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 1: the biggest Van Morrison fan ever. Ah, so it was

1334
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 1: all it was just like an amazing experience. Um. And

1335
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 1: so I was supposed to go back to mix it

1336
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 1: and he calls me and he said, you gotta coming

1337
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 1: and be here Monday. And I said, well, I'm just

1338
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: mixing this band called the Black Veil Brides. I didn't

1339
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:46,759
Speaker 1: tell him I'm mixing a project. I can't come Monday,

1340
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:50,639
Speaker 1: but I'll be there in a week. Click. He hung

1341
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 1: up on me. That was it because I said I

1342
01:19:54,840 --> 01:20:00,719
Speaker 1: couldn't come on Monday. That for all time, for all time,

1343
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 1: you know, that's that is the story. I know people

1344
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 1: work with them, etcetera. That they tell similar stories. It's

1345
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 1: like everything's great, it's over. You don't know what happened.

1346
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:15,479
Speaker 1: That's it. But I'm I'm happy. I had the best.

1347
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 1: Like I said, I was just in the presence of something.

1348
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: One thing I did say, and this is really interesting.

1349
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 1: So I said, you know, because I went and saw

1350
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: a show Bruce and I went to see him before

1351
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 1: we went in the studio and he played sacks right,

1352
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 1: and then I started putting together and actually, you know

1353
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: when you're mixing, you kind of have solo tracks and

1354
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:35,680
Speaker 1: and you kind of get in a kind of like

1355
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: a different feel of what people are doing. And I

1356
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 1: noticed that a lot of vans where he goes melody

1357
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: melodically sounds like sacks parts, Like he's not doing singer stuff,

1358
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 1: he's doing other stuff. And so I said, so what

1359
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: came first for you? Saxophone or vocals? And I said,

1360
01:20:56,320 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 1: because it sounds like your vocal parts are like ax parts.

1361
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 1: He goes, he kind of smiled up, and he goes, yeah,

1362
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 1: he started on sacks and then he went to vocals

1363
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: and that's where he gets all his melodies. And to me,

1364
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:15,839
Speaker 1: that freaked me out crazy. Okay. Uh Now, ultimately Bruce

1365
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: manages Michael Bubley. You end up producing and the records

1366
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 1: are very successful. But from a disan someone would say, well,

1367
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 1: that's not your regular wheelhouse. Bruce has known me forever.

1368
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about I'm not talking about getting the

1369
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: gig you work with. This is the thing. So he

1370
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 1: suggested it to Michael. Michael goes Metallica and he says,

1371
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: well you, Bruce says, you don't understand. Bob started he

1372
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,719
Speaker 1: was recording orchestras when he was doing jingles at Little Mountain,

1373
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I made records a day like

1374
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 1: same with Bob Clearmount. We all came in, Chris Lord Algae,

1375
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:53,599
Speaker 1: We all came from jingles. Like that's making a record

1376
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: every day, a one minute record, you know, and you

1377
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:59,600
Speaker 1: do orchestras and stuff. He says, Bob knows how to

1378
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 1: do it. So actually, Boo Blay played Maui and I

1379
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: went to see him, and so they played this song

1380
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 1: and the producer that he was working said it was

1381
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 1: a ship song. And I said, it's not a ship song.

1382
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: It's a good song. And I said, but you need

1383
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 1: to rewrite the bridge. Just this is where you should go.

1384
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: We ride the bridge. So Alan Chang Is m D

1385
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 1: wrote the bridge. We went into Brian's studio. I got

1386
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 1: great musicians Josh Freeze and guys from l A and

1387
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 1: some Vancouver guys that I know, and we cut the

1388
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 1: song live. We cut two songs and it was like

1389
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: it was easy because we did the pre production. They

1390
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: changed it. We ran a couple of times and cut

1391
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:40,639
Speaker 1: it and Michael loved it. That was everything. He only

1392
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:43,839
Speaker 1: did one song. He just you know, Michael went, okay,

1393
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: I get it right. Okay, Well, today's world is mostly

1394
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: a hip hop pop world. You certainly Boo Blaze in

1395
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,720
Speaker 1: his own lane and rock doesn't have the presence. What

1396
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 1: do you think about today's scene and to what degree

1397
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: does it intersect with your career and out yikes? What

1398
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 1: what inspires me constantly is like if you if you

1399
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 1: pick out just a song that really hits you, like

1400
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 1: Circles by post Malone. Okay, so out of the Blue

1401
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:24,560
Speaker 1: that comes on and I went, that's a great record. Okay,

1402
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 1: that's not a rock record, rock record, that's kind of

1403
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 1: like it's just a great song. The lyrics are great,

1404
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 1: that feels great. That's a great song. That's what I

1405
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 1: can still do if that happens. I'm not going to

1406
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 1: go into the rap thing because I don't know it.

1407
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: But I can still make great records with people that

1408
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: want to make records like that. And the great thing

1409
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: about the Post Malone is there's room musicians. You know,

1410
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 1: it's just not all you know what I mean. There's guitars,

1411
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: there's vocals, and you can hear the work that was

1412
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: put into it. That's a great record that keeps me inspired.

1413
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:02,559
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish too, same thing. You hear the craft, how

1414
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:08,520
Speaker 1: things people are making great things. You know, what's the

1415
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 1: The girl put out the record that's very weird. What's

1416
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 1: her name, uh, Fiona Apple? Yes, listen to the record.

1417
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:22,680
Speaker 1: There's four four tracks that are just great. You know,

1418
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 1: it's still inspire. I don't know if I could do that,

1419
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 1: but sure, so that's what keeps me interested as long

1420
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 1: as I'm interested, you know, um, yeah, I mean people Still.

1421
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:40,520
Speaker 1: The thing is is that I think still people appreciate

1422
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:45,599
Speaker 1: proper recording. And that may sound really strange, but there's

1423
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: a lot of good recordings that get away, like you know, um,

1424
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 1: there's a lot of raw recordings that get away because

1425
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 1: it's a great song. But still people really appreciate like

1426
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 1: good sonics and good recording and not many people know

1427
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:05,520
Speaker 1: how to do it. So maybe there's a place for me. Okay,

1428
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 1: but uh, I'll use the vernacular. Does your dick still

1429
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 1: get hard? Are you still as excited? Because certainly once

1430
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 1: you pass sixty ones, perspective tends to change, and you know,

1431
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: you certainly can nail it and there you know, certain

1432
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 1: people work forever in this business, But how do you

1433
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: get key and you get as excited as it used

1434
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:33,759
Speaker 1: to be? And how do you get excited? I worked

1435
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 1: with the band called class Less Act and I did

1436
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 1: it basically for nothing, and I work with them and

1437
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:46,639
Speaker 1: they were so excited about having great sounds and their

1438
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 1: their songs being arranged, and I got excited. So yes,

1439
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: I still get excited about it. I just love making

1440
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 1: records and until I can't, I'm going to keep doing it.

1441
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 1: And to what degree are you a student of the game?

1442
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:05,679
Speaker 1: What I mean by that is you wake up early,

1443
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,680
Speaker 1: you work in the studio. Are you someone who is

1444
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: literally going on the services Spotify, whatever and checking all

1445
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: the new stuff? Do you listen to old stuff? You know?

1446
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:19,599
Speaker 1: To what degree? You obviously know the limited number of mixers.

1447
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:21,839
Speaker 1: But if we were to go through the hit records

1448
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:24,640
Speaker 1: of today, whatever genre, are you keeping up with that

1449
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 1: or not? Basically the stuff that rises the surface in

1450
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:34,240
Speaker 1: my realm so to speak? Yeah, I mean I buy iTunes.

1451
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:38,599
Speaker 1: I still buy you know whatever, If I hear something,

1452
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 1: I'll buy it. I support musicians, I still do. That

1453
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:47,640
Speaker 1: is insane as that sounds, but um, yeah, people are

1454
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,759
Speaker 1: still making great records. I just heard the New Killers single,

1455
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 1: their New Killers single. I like it. You could see

1456
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,679
Speaker 1: that they did it. I'm asking a slightly different question,

1457
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 1: which is how do you find it? You gotta look.

1458
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,719
Speaker 1: It's like shopping, you know that when I started when

1459
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,639
Speaker 1: when I bought the m C five album Kick Out

1460
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 1: the Jams at Hudson's Bay in Victoria, never heard the band.

1461
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: Bought it because I liked the album cover, right, because

1462
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:20,479
Speaker 1: I was searching for music. Okay, I was there to

1463
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:22,920
Speaker 1: buy led Zeppelin one in truth. But I went to

1464
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 1: Hudson's Bay and I was going through records, never heard

1465
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:27,640
Speaker 1: of the m C five. I bought it because they

1466
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: had American flags draped on their amplifiers, and I thought

1467
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:35,759
Speaker 1: that is cool. Ship bought the record. I went to school.

1468
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 1: My band learned out Kicked Out with the Jams, right.

1469
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 1: We played it at a sow cop and we got

1470
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 1: banned from the school. That was when it came out. Okay,

1471
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:51,080
Speaker 1: so right now I still search for inspiration, I really do.

1472
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 1: I see. You gotta search it out, yeah, because you

1473
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:57,760
Speaker 1: can't hear it on the radio drilling down. Can you

1474
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 1: tell us a little about your technique and how you

1475
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 1: sort Well, I've got kids, Okay, that definitely helps you know, um,

1476
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 1: you know, like when you're in at the warehouse or

1477
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: when you're in Los Angeles. I listened to the radio.

1478
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 1: I listened to people tell me about stuff, you know,

1479
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 1: when I'm working, Like it's less of it now. I'm

1480
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 1: not hearing so much right now. It's mainly from my

1481
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:23,640
Speaker 1: kids or somebody will saying, listen to this um or.

1482
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: I searched it out the Killers. I always buy The

1483
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: Killers because I like them, and I'm glad that they

1484
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 1: put out a record and the first single sounds great

1485
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 1: to me, and Lindsey Buckingham's on it, so I'm you know,

1486
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,880
Speaker 1: I'm in there just for that, you know. So like

1487
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:40,880
Speaker 1: I said, you gotta search, you've gotta do the work.

1488
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 1: And if you do the work and people that if

1489
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:47,439
Speaker 1: you look at all the music that's released, it's hard

1490
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 1: to find something that nobody knows about. That's what worries me,

1491
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 1: because there isn't there isn't that that thing that used

1492
01:28:56,560 --> 01:29:00,640
Speaker 1: to be. There's not the great guys that developed people like.

1493
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:04,720
Speaker 1: We don't have the John Hammonds, we don't have ahm it.

1494
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: We don't have you know, those guys helping us discover,

1495
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 1: you know, so we're kind of on our own I

1496
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 1: was just gonna say, by the way, I think Rick

1497
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 1: Rubin is a great record man. I think he stands

1498
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: with Jon Hammond and Ahmad and stuff. I really believe

1499
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 1: that's the guy. He is. Well, he makes records in

1500
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:27,800
Speaker 1: a in a completely different way from most people. It's

1501
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:31,840
Speaker 1: all very conceptual, trying to inspire the brains of the

1502
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: people exactly. And but I think that's he's so good

1503
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 1: at that. He's a great music guy like John Hammond,

1504
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:42,559
Speaker 1: like he's one of the greats, Clive Davis and stuff.

1505
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 1: He's got vision and stuff. I thought i'd say that

1506
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: to you because I put him in that category. I

1507
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: admire the guy. Did Did you watch the Beastie Boys movie?

1508
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 1: I did, and I saw that and I was shocked.

1509
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 1: I knew sort of about that, but that that whole

1510
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 1: thing what they did is just so bad, right, It's

1511
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 1: just that that's the business. It's cutthroat, man, But it's

1512
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 1: also funny, you know, knowing George dr Culius, etcetera. The

1513
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:14,000
Speaker 1: transition of Rick Rubin to the guru, you know, the

1514
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:17,519
Speaker 1: quiet guy whatever it's opposed in that movie. He's the

1515
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:21,599
Speaker 1: guy who's right up front promoting, etcetera. I know, well,

1516
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 1: people change. Yeah, anyway, listen hopefully people do tanche well.

1517
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for taking time out of your creative day, Bob.

1518
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 1: Always great to see you and you Bob, love love

1519
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: what you do, keep doing it, keep telling the truth.

1520
01:30:37,439 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks so much. Til next time. This is

1521
01:30:39,680 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 1: Bob left sense fo