Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritun Day, I show
Speaker 1: where we reimagine the word citizen as a verb and
Speaker 1: remind ourselves how to wield our collective power. I'm Baritun Day.
Speaker 1: I'm recording this on Wednesday, the fourth of November, at
Speaker 1: roughly three pm Pacific time six thirty pm Eastern time.
Speaker 1: We don't yet have a confirmed winner of the presidential election,
Speaker 1: but we know the direction that things are moving towards.
Speaker 1: We expected this. They literally told us it's election season,
Speaker 1: not election day. Michelle Obama told us to bring lunch
Speaker 1: and dinner to the polls. We knew it could take days,
Speaker 1: possibly weeks, not hours, to know the results, and that's
Speaker 1: because we had record votes submitted by mail, and those
Speaker 1: votes take time to count. So let them count. I
Speaker 1: am tired. I put a lot of energy into this election,
Speaker 1: and I am excited in part and hopeful. I am
Speaker 1: disappointed in part and angry. I am tired, but just
Speaker 1: edging out my fatigue is pride. I am proud of you.
Speaker 1: I'm proud of us. We voted in record numbers. We
Speaker 1: demonstrated that first pillar of what it means to citizen,
Speaker 1: what we talk about in this show so much. We
Speaker 1: showed up, we participated, We stood together for each each
Speaker 1: other despite so many difficulties in an already too difficult year,
Speaker 1: We the people claimed our power and it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: Democracy was on the ballot, and democracy, though challenged, is rising.
Speaker 1: Thank you citizens, and thank you local election officials who
Speaker 1: made this possible. Seriously, thank your local election official. Find
Speaker 1: them on the internet, Send them cupcakes or pizzas, or
Speaker 1: cupcake pizzas or pizzas made out of cupcakes, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: They deserve some praise and some gratitude for making something
Speaker 1: so rough run relatively so smooth. Joe Biden has received
Speaker 1: more votes for president than any person in US history.
Speaker 1: Every demographic group turned out. The US experienced record turnout
Speaker 1: from everyone. This happened in a season of lawsuits and
Speaker 1: moves to restrict voting, a season of hurricanes and fires,
Speaker 1: a season of threats to the postal service, and above all,
Speaker 1: a season of COVID. That's right, the pandemic isn't over
Speaker 1: just because you're over it. Regardless of the outcomes of
Speaker 1: the various elections in the United States, COVID nineteen is
Speaker 1: here and stronger than ever. We are near a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand average new cases every day, and that number is climbing.
Speaker 1: Our hospitals across the nation are reaching their limits again.
Speaker 1: Things will get worse before they get better. That's real, y'all.
Speaker 1: Things will get worse before they get better. Our guests
Speaker 1: in this episode said, if you don't know someone who
Speaker 1: has died from COVID, you will. Our guests is literally
Speaker 1: the one person I trust above all others on COVID matters,
Speaker 1: and it was my dream, an almost literal dream, that
Speaker 1: he would agree to be on this show. And thanks
Speaker 1: to one of you a listener, thanks Mishoq. Two weeks
Speaker 1: ago we recorded with him and our live zoom audience
Speaker 1: as we start to emerge from the intensity of a
Speaker 1: difficult election. We are landing right in the middle of
Speaker 1: the most intense version yet of a difficult pandemic. And
Speaker 1: there is no one in this world I would rather
Speaker 1: talk to and have you learned from then, Dr Michael Oster.
Speaker 1: I literally trust this man with my life and our lives.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna pass the mic to myself from two
Speaker 1: weeks ago, a little bit of audio time travel, and
Speaker 1: I'll meet you on the other side of this interview
Speaker 1: with one of the nation's premier and longest serving disease detectives,
Speaker 1: and you'll see as I do, that he's not just that,
Speaker 1: he's also a stellar citizen. This pandemic is not over.
Speaker 1: It's far from it. In the United States, were well
Speaker 1: passed two hundred thousand people who are dead, hundreds dying
Speaker 1: each day, up to a thousand even And COVID nineteen
Speaker 1: was supposed to bring us all together, supposed to come
Speaker 1: for us all equally, supposed to unite us, but in
Speaker 1: so many ways it feels like it hasn't yet. There
Speaker 1: are voices out there, There are people out there, including
Speaker 1: probably you, who have helped, who have stepped up, who
Speaker 1: have citizens hard in this hard moment, and we have
Speaker 1: been looking for that good information in this time. I
Speaker 1: found that information at a very fortunate time in my life.
Speaker 1: I will never forget the date, March eleven, my flight
Speaker 1: back from New York City with Elizabeth, the last flight
Speaker 1: of the year. It seems like it will end up
Speaker 1: being and in the waiting area for the plane. I
Speaker 1: believe it's called a gate. So he almost forgot what
Speaker 1: you call those areas of airports because it's been so long.
Speaker 1: We're in the gate area and I come across a
Speaker 1: friend who's on the same flight, and he said, have
Speaker 1: you listened to this guy Ulster Home on Joe Rogan?
Speaker 1: And I said, no, I've never heard of it. And
Speaker 1: I hadn't listened to Joe Rogan in a while actually,
Speaker 1: And so we downloaded the YouTube video version, just a
Speaker 1: little clip and the whole podcast to listen to chill
Speaker 1: for the flight home. It was not a chill flight home.
Speaker 1: It was a very alertness raised moment and we landed
Speaker 1: as different people than the ones we took off as,
Speaker 1: because Dr Ulster Home presented pure information with humility but
Speaker 1: with confidence at the same time. And I have been
Speaker 1: following him ever since. Is my primary source of trusted
Speaker 1: information in this time. If you've been listening to me
Speaker 1: on any platform, you know that Dr oh is my
Speaker 1: go to guy. It has been really beautiful to hear
Speaker 1: his podcast, The Ulster Home Update, which I encourage everyone
Speaker 1: to subscribe to. It's the once a week must listen
Speaker 1: on this subject. And to give a little meat on
Speaker 1: the bones of this introduction, Dr Michael Olster Holme is
Speaker 1: an American epidemiologist. He's a Regent's professor and director of
Speaker 1: the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the
Speaker 1: University of Minnesota. He served as a Science Envoy for
Speaker 1: Health Security on behalf of the U. S State Department.
Speaker 1: He's the author of the New York Times best selling
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen book Deadliest Enemy, Our War against Killer Germs,
Speaker 1: and in my opinion, he is citizening so hard on
Speaker 1: behalf of all of us right now. So welcome Dr
Speaker 1: Michael Osterholm, and thank you as you do with your show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time out of
Speaker 1: your schedule to spend time with us. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1: And I want to be really clear about this. You know,
Speaker 1: any time you're on a program, you're supposed to be
Speaker 1: polite and thank the individual inviting you all those kinds
Speaker 1: of things. This is not what these words are about.
Speaker 1: This is a true, sincere, and very honest thank you
Speaker 1: to you for the message you've been bringing to this topic,
Speaker 1: because what you've added is something so much more important
Speaker 1: than just the facts. It's the context. It's the way
Speaker 1: we're going to get through this. So I can tell
Speaker 1: you at our center at the University Minnesota, you're one
Speaker 1: of our heroes We've listened to you, we follow you,
Speaker 1: and I've learned a great deal from you. So I
Speaker 1: just want to thank you for that. And it takes
Speaker 1: a bit to teach an old man, but you've been
Speaker 1: doing a pretty good job. So thank you. Thank you
Speaker 1: for that. In the beginning, dr Ulsterholme, of this pandemic
Speaker 1: hitting the United States, what was your hope for how
Speaker 1: the people and the government of this country would react.
Speaker 1: Give me your best case scenario that you were hoping
Speaker 1: we step into. Yeah, well, maybe if I could just
Speaker 1: even take a step back from that to give you
Speaker 1: some context to where we got into that leaf. You know,
Speaker 1: our center began following the situation the last week of December,
Speaker 1: and you know, we have our ears and eyes open
Speaker 1: all the time for what is going on around the
Speaker 1: world caused by an infectious disease, and we recognized that
Speaker 1: last week of December, something very unusual and very alarming
Speaker 1: was happening in Wuhan, China. Within the first week of January,
Speaker 1: it became clear that it was not being caused by
Speaker 1: an influenza virus, and that likely was being caused by
Speaker 1: a coronavirus, which actually, believe it or not, temporarily gave
Speaker 1: me some hope in a way that I otherwise might
Speaker 1: not have. And that is because I've been quite involved
Speaker 1: with working on coronavirus infections, having been quite involved with
Speaker 1: the stars response that this country had as well as
Speaker 1: the world back in two thousand three to that severe
Speaker 1: acute respiratory distress sunder. And we learned in that pandemic
Speaker 1: almost kind of event was the fact that we could
Speaker 1: control those virus because it is one that you did
Speaker 1: not become highly infectious till the second week of your infection.
Speaker 1: So if we could identify you early, we could get
Speaker 1: you isolated in a hospital make sure you didn't transmit
Speaker 1: anyone else. So based on that, when we saw Wolhan,
Speaker 1: we thought, well, you know what, if this is a coronavirus,
Speaker 1: we just have to identify all the clinically ill patients
Speaker 1: as soon as possible, isolate them, and then once we do,
Speaker 1: we will be able to stop this and we'll find
Speaker 1: the animal reservoir. Well. By January tenth, it became clear
Speaker 1: to us, wait a minute, something is very different here.
Speaker 1: This is not just another coronavirus infection like that people
Speaker 1: were getting in effective. It looked like from having contact
Speaker 1: with people who weren't sick, people who were transmitting the
Speaker 1: virus with minimal symptoms not later on, and by January
Speaker 1: it would be abundantly clear to us with transmission. Now
Speaker 1: it occurred in multiple Asian countries, and that we were
Speaker 1: seeing this pattern emerge, we went, oh, my, this is
Speaker 1: now going to cause the next pandemic in the world.
Speaker 1: It's not going to be good. It's going to be
Speaker 1: a serious challenge, and so we tried to get the
Speaker 1: world to wake up. At that point, we put a
Speaker 1: statement out saying in January, this was going to cause
Speaker 1: the next worldwide pandemic. And my first reaction, as you
Speaker 1: were asking about, was why over the course of the
Speaker 1: next month that it takes so long for people to
Speaker 1: actually buy into this, because it really postponed. Are coming
Speaker 1: to grips with what we needed to do. In February,
Speaker 1: I published an op ed in The New York Times
Speaker 1: again saying this is a pandemic. It's coming, get ready,
Speaker 1: we have to start doing with it. And I caught
Speaker 1: so much negative feedback from saying, you know, you're just
Speaker 1: scaring that a lot of us don't do that. Okay,
Speaker 1: this flew is much worse, and it wasn't really until
Speaker 1: several weeks later that we finally started to see the
Speaker 1: body of Public Health and medicine and the general public
Speaker 1: start to understand this. And it was at that point
Speaker 1: I went from despair that we weren't understanding as to
Speaker 1: want us saying, Okay, now we get it. Now we're
Speaker 1: gonna do something about this, and we're going to devel
Speaker 1: up and you know, plans or what we need to
Speaker 1: do to detect it in our communities, how to treat patients,
Speaker 1: how to limit its transmission. And that's where I did
Speaker 1: have a great hope that we're going to do much
Speaker 1: more than ultimately we ever did. Thank you for the
Speaker 1: first background to can take us all the way back
Speaker 1: to December, which it feels like fifty years ago, when
Speaker 1: when you rewind just not even quite a year. I
Speaker 1: have been very frustrated by the months since March, since
Speaker 1: everyone knew and publicly knew what needed to happen, and
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us have been drowning in
Speaker 1: the bad news. And I want to know from you
Speaker 1: what have you seen during this time, especially even now
Speaker 1: that gives you hope that we can still rise to
Speaker 1: the occasion. What are you proud of? In the response?
Speaker 1: Because I'm searching it it's very hard to find. Well,
Speaker 1: and thank you, and let me add context to this
Speaker 1: because I'm like you in the sense that you know,
Speaker 1: I approached this as someone who has had a role
Speaker 1: in the last five presidential administrations. I serve to Republican governors,
Speaker 1: to in democratic governors, one independent government Minnesota as a
Speaker 1: state ulogist over the years. You know, the public close
Speaker 1: contacts have little understanding of my partisan politics of ourity.
Speaker 1: My job is just to be an umpire and calls
Speaker 1: balls and strikes. So today I'll do that for you. Also,
Speaker 1: you know it's not partisan, But I have to say
Speaker 1: that as we talk about this, the one thing that
Speaker 1: has given me so much hope is something you've experienced,
Speaker 1: and that is with our podcast. We now have had
Speaker 1: many hundreds of thousands of listeners and the communications we
Speaker 1: hear from them, people still believe, in their heart of hearts,
Speaker 1: as bad as this virus is and what it's doing, kindness, empathy,
Speaker 1: understanding will win the day, and they just want that
Speaker 1: type of context. We'll take the facts, will take the
Speaker 1: hard information, but how can we do this with understanding
Speaker 1: how can we reach out? And you know, I've been
Speaker 1: working now for the better part of six weeks on
Speaker 1: these podcasts to actually build a whole movement of what
Speaker 1: I call the kindness pandemic, to take on the terrible
Speaker 1: virus pandemic. And so I think that there are many
Speaker 1: many people who want to help however they can. They
Speaker 1: will take the scientific information, they will take the medicine
Speaker 1: of what we need to do, but they don't want
Speaker 1: to miss out on the understanding. Know, if there was
Speaker 1: ever a time now it should be humankind versus of virus,
Speaker 1: not humans versus humans. It is now. And I think
Speaker 1: that has been so encouraging to me. The number of emails,
Speaker 1: a number of follow ups we get from the people
Speaker 1: who listen, have just given my hope such a strong backing.
Speaker 1: And uh and that's why I started coming on this
Speaker 1: show today was really important for me and for our group,
Speaker 1: because you too understand that how important that whole concept is.
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm here. Let the kindness pandemic wash
Speaker 1: across the land. How do you stay connected to the
Speaker 1: human part of this story? A lot of us are
Speaker 1: inundated with numbers and trailing seven day moving averages and
Speaker 1: the death rate for the a that's on the home page.
Speaker 1: There's so many of our news organizations and you've been
Speaker 1: in this work for decades, So how do you stay
Speaker 1: connected to the people behind all these numbers. Well, first,
Speaker 1: I work with an incredible team of people who every
Speaker 1: day remind us that these are not numbers. These are people,
Speaker 1: These are loved ones, These are someone's very special person
Speaker 1: in their life. And so you know, I I we
Speaker 1: try never to forget that. And it's not like you
Speaker 1: have to try, it's just a reminder of put it
Speaker 1: in context. And then you know, it's just reaching out
Speaker 1: to people because you know, kindness is so much easier
Speaker 1: to do. It's like love. The more you give away,
Speaker 1: the more you have. And I think that you know,
Speaker 1: in this time, this is what sustains me. You know,
Speaker 1: this is what keeps me from going to bed at
Speaker 1: night and saying to myself, I can't get up in
Speaker 1: the morning and do this one more time. It's just
Speaker 1: the opposite. I gotta get up, I want to get up.
Speaker 1: I gotta be there. You know, yesterday I recorded a
Speaker 1: podcast live and we started a new part of the
Speaker 1: podcast where we're now each week detailing and living in
Speaker 1: moral you might say someone who has died recently of
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and just telling their story, because there are
Speaker 1: so many stories to tell, And so I took the
Speaker 1: prerogative to tell a story about somebody from my own
Speaker 1: small hometown in Iowa. An individual who had had a
Speaker 1: distinguished your career in the Air Force, retired as lieutenant colonel,
Speaker 1: came back to my little hometown in Iowa and took
Speaker 1: over the family greenhouse, and over the course of several
Speaker 1: decades he was responsible for the flowers that lit up
Speaker 1: our town. Where they were for funerals, where they were
Speaker 1: for weddings, where they were for any other special occasions.
Speaker 1: But what I remember most about him was the fact
Speaker 1: that my mother and I come from a family of
Speaker 1: very little means. Was a very proud, good Irish Catholic woman,
Speaker 1: Abbey Ryan. And you know, every Easter I would say
Speaker 1: about my money from my paper out to go and
Speaker 1: buy a corsage for her to go to Eastern mass
Speaker 1: And she was so proud to wear that. It could
Speaker 1: have been twenty below zero and she would have made
Speaker 1: sure her dress had no code on it so that
Speaker 1: corsage was standing out there, and I used to go
Speaker 1: up and get that corsage every Easter Friday from Jim,
Speaker 1: like a gentleman who died in September. Being able to
Speaker 1: tell that story again last night, being able to actually
Speaker 1: share this was not a man that died from COVID,
Speaker 1: This was my friend. This was my somebody who had
Speaker 1: a major influence in my life, who brought something. And
Speaker 1: I think we just don't forget that. If we don't
Speaker 1: forget that, there are so many people, and if you
Speaker 1: don't know somebody who's died at COVID already, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: to tell you what you will. We're going to see
Speaker 1: an increasing number of people who are becoming what we
Speaker 1: call long haulers, people who are not necessarily that ill
Speaker 1: early in their illness with COVID nineteen. In fact, manyum
Speaker 1: have very mild symptoms. They're often other wise previously healthy
Speaker 1: young adults, and unfortunately ten of these people are going
Speaker 1: on and developing a very very severe syndrome, a collection
Speaker 1: of signs and symptoms. Fifth or six weeks, they're almost disabled,
Speaker 1: they're on oxygen in some cases, their X rays of
Speaker 1: their hearts and their lungs look terrible, and they have
Speaker 1: what is in essence of severe chronic fatigue syndrome. Like picture.
Speaker 1: You know, we need to be there for these people.
Speaker 1: It's not just the people who are in our hospitals
Speaker 1: and intensive care units. And so I think now is
Speaker 1: the time where if we let kind of shine, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said a moment ago, the more you give away,
Speaker 1: the more you have, the better you feel. And so
Speaker 1: that's how I stay connected is just understanding these people
Speaker 1: and knowing that every one of these numbers is someone's
Speaker 1: loved one. Every one of these numbers is somebody who
Speaker 1: made a difference, and that's what we can never forget.
Speaker 1: You said something there about if you don't know someone
Speaker 1: who's died of COVID, you will that feel is like
Speaker 1: a very depressing forecast for the path of this disease.
Speaker 1: Can you expand on that a little bit in terms
Speaker 1: of what you see over the next year that we
Speaker 1: should all be preparing ourselves for. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: here's your opportunity. Let me I'll cover that. I hope
Speaker 1: no one in your life does die from COVID, but
Speaker 1: the chances are increasing with increasing numbers they will. So
Speaker 1: you know what, treat everybody around you as if today
Speaker 1: was the day before they die, and you know what,
Speaker 1: almost none of them will, but boy, everyone will be
Speaker 1: better for it. Now. The reason I say to the
Speaker 1: dying part is because in fact, we're seeing the case
Speaker 1: numbers go up precipitously right now. What's happening, Well, first
Speaker 1: of all, pandemic fatigue has set in. People are saying,
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for long enough. I need to
Speaker 1: be out, I need to be with people. And I
Speaker 1: understand that. That's not to say that that's not a reality,
Speaker 1: but also understand the consequence of someone's behaviors. We see
Speaker 1: college students coming back to school. That's great, but their
Speaker 1: socializing means that transmission is sometimes pretty dramatic and the
Speaker 1: challenges Many of these people won't go on to be
Speaker 1: hospitalized or serious illnesses. They will go on potentially and
Speaker 1: developed this longhauler condition. But what really also is important
Speaker 1: is they transmit this virus to their mom and dad,
Speaker 1: to their gramp and grammar, to the older colleagues they
Speaker 1: work with, and so that's a channel. And then finally,
Speaker 1: this category that I call pandemic anger, it's up to
Speaker 1: a third of the people of this country right now
Speaker 1: believe that this pandemic is a hoax. They believe it's
Speaker 1: some kind of politically motivated action to impact negatively on someone.
Speaker 1: And I don't understand that. You don't have to look
Speaker 1: far to see the pain and suffering. But if you
Speaker 1: add this all up, that means we're going to see
Speaker 1: a lot of additional transmission. Today we estimate that about
Speaker 1: ten percent of the US population has been infected by
Speaker 1: this virus. That's all, for all the pain and suffering,
Speaker 1: economic disruption, and death, we won't see this virus slowed
Speaker 1: down transmission until it gets to fifty of the population,
Speaker 1: and then only then it slows down transmission. It doesn't stop,
Speaker 1: and so we've got a long ways to go now.
Speaker 1: Our hope is that we can keep people from becoming
Speaker 1: infected having to develop their immunity that way, and that
Speaker 1: we can see vaccines coming forward early next year into
Speaker 1: the Midsummer that can actually be administered that will help
Speaker 1: protect us. And that's the way we want to find
Speaker 1: ourselves becoming immune to this virus, not through some illness.
Speaker 1: And the one thing I covered in my recent podcast,
Speaker 1: As we get closer and closer to the holidays, think
Speaker 1: about that for yourself. You don't want to be the
Speaker 1: reason mom or Dad or gramp and Grammar get infected
Speaker 1: because you came home not knowing that you were carrying
Speaker 1: the virus and they died. We have far too many
Speaker 1: examples just like that. I want to pick up on
Speaker 1: the thread of it doesn't have to be this way,
Speaker 1: that there are things we can do. And you've been
Speaker 1: clear and proactive, and I appreciate that about the disproportionate impact,
Speaker 1: so you know more than most how this isn't fair.
Speaker 1: What can we do? What are you calling on us
Speaker 1: to do collectively to improve the situation beyond what you've
Speaker 1: already said? Well, you know, and I don't mean to
Speaker 1: sound trite by saying this, but we will be held
Speaker 1: accountable if we don't take advantage of this crisis to
Speaker 1: understand the lack of what I would call just human
Speaker 1: decency when it comes to life and who we want
Speaker 1: to be as a society. Racial disparity, socio economic issues
Speaker 1: are by themselves, I think such an underappreciated issue by
Speaker 1: far too many. We're seeing more and more understanding of that,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately it happens through painful events. But I think
Speaker 1: this disease is putting a spotlight on this, you know
Speaker 1: why and how can we have such disproportionate impact. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, first of all, we have to understand that
Speaker 1: this pandemic is not only cruel, but in some ways
Speaker 1: it's so unfair. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 1: it has been shoulder by the black brown in indigenous
Speaker 1: communities in ways that so many others haven't had to know.
Speaker 1: You know, when you're an essential worker and you don't
Speaker 1: have a choice whether you can go to work or
Speaker 1: not you have to go to work, when you're in
Speaker 1: a living condition where you have three generational families living
Speaker 1: in a two better apartment and you're supposed to isolate
Speaker 1: yourself from mom and dad or grandpa and grandma and
Speaker 1: your kids when you get infected. Um. You know, I
Speaker 1: could go through a litany of these kinds of experiences
Speaker 1: that I think have been so challenging because they really
Speaker 1: have created this racial and I think all barrier that
Speaker 1: I think is such a problem. You know, I must say,
Speaker 1: you know, I was very challenged. My emotions were on
Speaker 1: the boiling edge when we saw large outbreaks and meat
Speaker 1: packing plants in this country in the early part of
Speaker 1: the pandemic, and for which if you know who is
Speaker 1: working shoulder to shoulder incredible hours, very very tough work.
Speaker 1: It was communities of black, brown, and indigenous populations, and
Speaker 1: when they were forced to go back to work as
Speaker 1: essential workers, even though transmission was widely spreading in that
Speaker 1: meat packing facility as they worked shoulder to shoulder, and
Speaker 1: then for some states to not only just declare them
Speaker 1: essential workers, but that if they were to not go
Speaker 1: back to work out of fear of contracting the virus
Speaker 1: and then possibly of bringing it home to a loved
Speaker 1: one that could be having risk factors for serious disease,
Speaker 1: they didn't get their unemployment. That was just wrong, wrong,
Speaker 1: And so I think that what we need to do
Speaker 1: is understand the lessons that this pandemic has taught us
Speaker 1: about the goodness of being human, and that, you know,
Speaker 1: if there is anyone in our country who is suffering
Speaker 1: from disparities, we all suffer, and I hope that we
Speaker 1: can shine a positive light on how to change this.
Speaker 1: You know, this isn't us versus them. We are all
Speaker 1: together in this. And so if there's a silver lining
Speaker 1: to this very dark cloud, is one of them, is
Speaker 1: just that let's shine this light on it. Let's make
Speaker 1: it loud and clear what happened and why and what
Speaker 1: can we do about it? You know, imagine if this
Speaker 1: is your child or your aunt or uncle who are
Speaker 1: living in that two bedroom apartment with three generations of people,
Speaker 1: and because you did go to your job every day
Speaker 1: and you took public transit and you are an essential worker,
Speaker 1: and now you're coming home infected, how do you bubble
Speaker 1: protect them? You can't in that setting, in any meaningful way.
Speaker 1: You can't. That shouldn't happen like that. So I hope
Speaker 1: that that we take this opportunity to take a step
Speaker 1: back and look not just as our bodies as something
Speaker 1: that can get infect of the virus, we look at
Speaker 1: our souls something about how do we right the wrongs
Speaker 1: that I think our society continues to suffer. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say wear masks. That was
Speaker 1: way more impressive and deeper, deeper work. Well, I think
Speaker 1: you should do that too, But I think you know,
Speaker 1: we can't hide behind the masks, as you well know,
Speaker 1: we have to start looking at our souls and asking ourselves,
Speaker 1: you know, as citizens, what does this mean? The work
Speaker 1: that you do when your team does depends on the
Speaker 1: rest of us listening and uh and doing our part
Speaker 1: as citizens as well. I wanted to ask you, how
Speaker 1: do you think about our power as citizens and what
Speaker 1: do you want to see more of from us? You know,
Speaker 1: the longest journey starts with the first step, So how
Speaker 1: do we help educate the public about What you can
Speaker 1: do is simply to protect yourself. You know, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna spend a lot of time in large social gathering
Speaker 1: together indoors, you put yourself at real risk for getting
Speaker 1: the virus. And I can say, but I can't not
Speaker 1: do that, you know, I look back on generations before
Speaker 1: us and think about some of the wars World War
Speaker 1: two and others where people sacrifice for years in major ways,
Speaker 1: putting their life on the line to get us somewhere.
Speaker 1: We're not asking to do that. But if you can
Speaker 1: just wait and minimize the risk you have until we
Speaker 1: have vaccines, that's going to be everything in terms of
Speaker 1: preventing transmission. If you can never forget about the kindness.
Speaker 1: You know, we're asking so many people to bubble themselves
Speaker 1: up so they don't put themselves at risk, because if
Speaker 1: they did get infected, they have a great likelihood of
Speaker 1: having a very severe case. But think how lonely that
Speaker 1: can be. Reach out to these people, even if you
Speaker 1: can't physically hug them, Go to their house, stand outside
Speaker 1: their door, have a conversation, spend time on the phone
Speaker 1: with them, help them out however you can. Maybe you're
Speaker 1: the one that can go deliver some product or something
Speaker 1: that they need. You know, our democracy is critical, it
Speaker 1: is so critical, and today we know the poll workers
Speaker 1: are some of the bravest people we have out there working.
Speaker 1: Go help out with that. That's the kind of thing
Speaker 1: If we do that, that's feeds our soul, that doesn't
Speaker 1: let the virus defeat us. And then finally, we have
Speaker 1: to as a society address head on racial inequality and disparities.
Speaker 1: And let's use this as a positive example to shine
Speaker 1: light and a terrible thing to actually make a difference.
Speaker 1: I'm an old man, you know, I don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of years left in this business, okay, But I
Speaker 1: want a world where my kids and grandkids grow up
Speaker 1: where the things that we have had to experience now
Speaker 1: don't occur in the future, whether they be pandemics or
Speaker 1: whether they be some of the other social ills. And
Speaker 1: so I think all of that is what we need
Speaker 1: to be doing right now, and I ask you to
Speaker 1: be a part of each one. Reduce the risk of
Speaker 1: the transmission virus, reach out to others who are hurting,
Speaker 1: and I think now how we'll get actively involved so
Speaker 1: that we can deal with the racial disparities and move
Speaker 1: this to a higher place in the world. As you
Speaker 1: are a doctor, I will infer that as a prescription
Speaker 1: and encourage us all to take that medicine. That's very sound.
Speaker 1: There's a question we like to ask all of our guests,
Speaker 1: and it comes back to the title of this show
Speaker 1: and this word citizen. We interpret this word citizen less
Speaker 1: about legal status or any kind of status, to be honest,
Speaker 1: and more as a verb as actions. If you are
Speaker 1: to interpret the word citizen as a verb in that way,
Speaker 1: what is your definition of what it means to citizen? Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, it's to open your heart. Two, whatever
Speaker 1: the causes that we need to address, the fact that
Speaker 1: you're even on this webinar today by itself is a
Speaker 1: very substantial commitment to listening and understanding and thinking about
Speaker 1: this issue. Second of all, its action. You have to
Speaker 1: be there with action. It's wonderful to intellectualize and to,
Speaker 1: you know, basically, take all this information in and you know,
Speaker 1: and kind of form thoughts and feelings, but act then,
Speaker 1: whether it's being kind, whether it's you know, being safe,
Speaker 1: whether it's helping to organize communities around certain issues that
Speaker 1: will bring all of us to a better place, particularly
Speaker 1: when it comes to the issues of inequality. So I
Speaker 1: think citizenship, in my mind and citizens in general, is
Speaker 1: about action. And none of us are going to necessarily
Speaker 1: ever change the world, but collectively we can do a lot.
Speaker 1: And so I also say, don't ever think you can't
Speaker 1: make a contribution in our little group at sid Rap.
Speaker 1: You know, we're just a small little center in the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere in Minnesota, and we're trying to make
Speaker 1: a difference and we're not gonna let anybody tell us
Speaker 1: we can. And I think that's what citizens have to feel.
Speaker 1: As a citizen, feel like you can make a difference
Speaker 1: and don't anybody tell you can, and back it up
Speaker 1: not only with commitment, with action. You knock that out
Speaker 1: of the park. Dr Austhen, that was really I've been listen.
Speaker 1: I've been listening to you, man, I've been listening to you.
Speaker 1: But that was your words said it was, but you know,
Speaker 1: but I think this is the collective feeling. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think this is what's important here. We have a
Speaker 1: collective feeling here that we all can understand and resonate with.
Speaker 1: Let's grow that. Let's grow that. Let's take that out
Speaker 1: and plant it, just like we're planting seeds, and let's
Speaker 1: grow it. And let this pandemic not just be a
Speaker 1: painful experience, but let it be a reason why we
Speaker 1: can do these things. And I believe in my heart
Speaker 1: of hearts that we can do this. I do believe it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna grow this moment in the show to encompass
Speaker 1: voices beyond mine. We like to involve a live audience
Speaker 1: before or the podcast goes out to those who listen
Speaker 1: on demand, and we have a live question from Priya. Hi.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Dr asked Home for your work
Speaker 1: and for being here with us today. I love the
Speaker 1: kindness pandemic idea. I am Pria Kumar. I'm from Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1: I am a psychiatrist, so I wanted to ask about
Speaker 1: kind of the mental health secondary pandemic that we have
Speaker 1: been seeing. I'm a psychiatrist, so I have seen the depression,
Speaker 1: the anxiety, the PTSD symptoms. I've seen depression with people
Speaker 1: who are struggling with the kind of chronic fatigue that
Speaker 1: they have gotten from COVID nineteen, and it's gotten to
Speaker 1: the point, I think where even some people have questioned
Speaker 1: lockdown measures whether that's good or bad, given how it's
Speaker 1: affecting our mental health, which I think is misguided, and
Speaker 1: I think we can work around that. But I would
Speaker 1: love to kind of get yours as people who are
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast. We're probably all doing what we
Speaker 1: need to do in terms of lessening the risk of
Speaker 1: virus transmission, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on
Speaker 1: taking care of our mental health as well. Blowing that pandemic. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you, And I could not be a stronger supporter
Speaker 1: of the sense that we have to deal with both
Speaker 1: the virus itself and the mental health aspects of it.
Speaker 1: That is what's all about being human. Let me just
Speaker 1: back up and say, you know, a lot of people
Speaker 1: I think have a misconception there are these lockdowns that
Speaker 1: are occurring, but you know, we really have gotten away
Speaker 1: from any of the kinds of you can't leave your
Speaker 1: home or you can't do these things, and what it
Speaker 1: is is the actual occurrence of the pandemic that has
Speaker 1: us afraid. If you're afraid to go into a public place,
Speaker 1: if you're afraid to go to church, if you're afraid
Speaker 1: to do a lot of things you don't, you can't.
Speaker 1: And so this is where controlling the virus transmission is
Speaker 1: really really important. Now having said that, there are things
Speaker 1: we need to do. For example, like I think bars
Speaker 1: and restaurants have been a place for major transmission. I've
Speaker 1: not been to a bar restaurants since March. I missed
Speaker 1: it immensely. But what I also understand of the people's
Speaker 1: whose lives have been adversely impacted, the owners of the
Speaker 1: restaurants and bars, the people who worked there. I wrote
Speaker 1: an up ed piece in The New York Times in
Speaker 1: August two with Neil cash Carry, the president of the
Speaker 1: Minneapolistetter Reserve Bank, in which we made the strong argument
Speaker 1: that to really get this virus better under control and
Speaker 1: to reduce it where people were much less afraid to
Speaker 1: go into public places, was the fact that we needed
Speaker 1: to drive down transmission that was going to require us
Speaker 1: to be distanced for several weeks. And if we had
Speaker 1: done that back then we would be in a very
Speaker 1: different place today. And at the same time, we need
Speaker 1: to take care of people. This is where the part
Speaker 1: that gets missed. The savings rate in the United States
Speaker 1: has gone from eight percent too during the course of
Speaker 1: this pandemic, absolutely unheard of. We could borrow the money
Speaker 1: our government could from ourselves and pay us back ourselves
Speaker 1: with interest to pay for all these people whose lives
Speaker 1: have been impacted in such a negative way. And I
Speaker 1: know today, if you don't have enough money to pay
Speaker 1: for the roof over your head or food on your table,
Speaker 1: you've got kids you have to deal with. You know,
Speaker 1: you're struggling. That just adds to the mental health trauma.
Speaker 1: So our whole plan was, if it is a bar,
Speaker 1: restaurant or a business like that that's adversely affected, pay
Speaker 1: the people for what's happening, keep them whole, keep our
Speaker 1: government's whole, keep our colleges and university's whole. And it's
Speaker 1: borrowing an investment in ourselves. And if you look at
Speaker 1: the economic models, we actually do much better over the
Speaker 1: long run in recovering that money back by bringing society
Speaker 1: back up in a hopeful manner. So I would just
Speaker 1: say this is part of the plan that I talked
Speaker 1: about a compassionate, kind, caring response to this actually turns
Speaker 1: out to be the financially best response to this. And
Speaker 1: that's what we've missed. And so while we see them
Speaker 1: debating in Washington, do you see about, you know, getting
Speaker 1: relief back out to the public. What a missed opportunity
Speaker 1: to help us through. Imagine if you only your clients
Speaker 1: and I are only making an assumption. One of the
Speaker 1: challenges they have, besides the loneliness, is the fear of
Speaker 1: financial ruin and the fact that they don't have money
Speaker 1: to pay for the food on their table. Imagine if
Speaker 1: we could take that off the table. And we should
Speaker 1: be able to do that as a nation. And I
Speaker 1: want to end by saying thank you. You know, I
Speaker 1: had dedicated one of my podcasts to the mental health
Speaker 1: support in our communities as people like you that are
Speaker 1: more critical now than ever. And you know it was
Speaker 1: funny because you know, I made a cobbint of this
Speaker 1: thing about the fact, you know, thank god I had
Speaker 1: had my therapist the thirty years. She's amazing, and I
Speaker 1: had more men contact mus that you actually said that
Speaker 1: in public, that you see a therapist. I see one.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm I'm embarrassed let anybody know, and
Speaker 1: I'm saying saying why we all need that help. You know,
Speaker 1: we all need to be there. So all the men
Speaker 1: I'm here who have seen the therapist don't be afraid
Speaker 1: to acknowledge it, and you know, really make the case
Speaker 1: that this is a good thing. This is mental health.
Speaker 1: Just like we want to have our physical health improve,
Speaker 1: we want to improve our mental health. So thank you
Speaker 1: very very much for the question. And I hope that
Speaker 1: gives you a sense of why I think you're right
Speaker 1: on the mark. Thank you prea for that. If you're up, Hi, Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm Eve Blossom and I'm in San Francisco and I
Speaker 1: focus on digital health and startups and still value. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been following your weekly updates. Thank goodness. It's refreshing
Speaker 1: to have someone like you do weekly updates. And I'm
Speaker 1: just I wanted to ask if you're committed to doing
Speaker 1: it throughout the whole pandemic longer, no matter how long
Speaker 1: that will be. And also I just wanted to mention
Speaker 1: how I love I'm a big springste fan, so I
Speaker 1: really loved how you brought into Springstel's new music into
Speaker 1: one of your Well, thank you for your very very
Speaker 1: kind comedy. First of all, I love music, okay, So
Speaker 1: I'm committed to these, okay, and so that's great. I
Speaker 1: think that one of the reasons I can't let this
Speaker 1: virus get me, you know, myself. It's that old line,
Speaker 1: don't look back. They might be gaining on you, you
Speaker 1: know kind of thing. I gotta do. These podcasts gives
Speaker 1: me a purpose, you know. So, so I'm going to
Speaker 1: keep doing this as long as I possibly can, and
Speaker 1: for as long as it's helpful to the public. And
Speaker 1: I work with the most amazing team of people at
Speaker 1: sid RAP who whope produce this thing. They make it
Speaker 1: possible for me to do it. They may be possible
Speaker 1: to be here. So yeah, I'll keep doing it for
Speaker 1: as long as people find it useful. And you know,
Speaker 1: I want to be here to celebrate when we get
Speaker 1: over this virus. I want to be at that celebration.
Speaker 1: I'll invite you all to it. Okay, Well, we'll get
Speaker 1: you all there. We'll have one heck of it to
Speaker 1: I'm and it's our beat the virus party. Okay, We're
Speaker 1: gonna do it, So thank you, and we'll keep We'll
Speaker 1: keep plugging away at it. Thank you for that Eve,
Speaker 1: and I look forward to that party already. Know what
Speaker 1: it looks like. It's that scene from the Matrix when
Speaker 1: they're all underground and it's like a rave and its
Speaker 1: way too close to each other. It's just like so
Speaker 1: many shared droplet. Can I tell a very brief story here.
Speaker 1: I give you hope and the fact that my niece
Speaker 1: who I'm very close to, her husband lost their house
Speaker 1: in Santa the Santa Clara fire almost seven weeks ago.
Speaker 1: It was tragic. They barely got out. They had their dog,
Speaker 1: they couldn't find their cat. They had to leave it.
Speaker 1: The daughters, the three grandnieces were traumatized. Beyond it. I
Speaker 1: can tell you make a long story short. Two weeks
Speaker 1: ago somebody thought they saw it up there. Last week
Speaker 1: they actually captured alive trap with food. How it survived
Speaker 1: for six weeks after that severe fire is incredible. And
Speaker 1: her name is Mama Kitty, and mom and Kitty should
Speaker 1: give us all hope that if a cat can do that,
Speaker 1: survived that fire and live for six weeks without food
Speaker 1: and water a man, anything's possible. So I have hope.
Speaker 1: Awesome Mama kitty or we have one more live question
Speaker 1: came in under the wire. This is a family member
Speaker 1: of mine, my uncle. Uh Danna Robinson. Okay, I'm back
Speaker 1: in the gym now area, Washington, d C. My name
Speaker 1: is Dana Robinson. They've just allowed the gym's in the
Speaker 1: hospitals to initiate social distancing in the gym. I've been
Speaker 1: waiting for that. I didn't think it was gonna come
Speaker 1: until it looks very, very different. You're used to see
Speaker 1: in fifty people in the gym, Now you only see ten.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's safe or you think I should
Speaker 1: wait until we get that vaccine. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: let me say that we do know that you can
Speaker 1: get into our air transmission in a relatively smaller room setting,
Speaker 1: and so I would say, you know, if you are
Speaker 1: at high risk of having a very serious case of
Speaker 1: COVID nineteam, I might still take a pass for a
Speaker 1: while on this. But I think the idea in the
Speaker 1: gym is a good thing. Physically, you want to be active,
Speaker 1: and that's a very good thing to be out and about.
Speaker 1: So what I would do is add a little twist
Speaker 1: to that and find out the time of the day
Speaker 1: that the least number of people are there and then
Speaker 1: go then and then that's your way of accommodating and
Speaker 1: making it as safe for yourself as possible. So but
Speaker 1: the big thing is you know you're taking care of yourself,
Speaker 1: You're thinking about it in the right way. This is
Speaker 1: the smart decisions. They're gonna allow a lot of people
Speaker 1: to avoid getting infected. So congratulations. And some other time
Speaker 1: we tell I'd love to hear a lot of stories
Speaker 1: about your relative here. Okay, but we'll wait and say
Speaker 1: about that one. Okay, well, say will definitely save that one.
Speaker 1: Thank you again, I heard a lot of good things
Speaker 1: from you. I'd summarize it as as be safe, be kind,
Speaker 1: and be active is one way to put it. Thank you,
Speaker 1: just thank you for having me. Thank you for what
Speaker 1: you do well staying together. Okay, and let's get through
Speaker 1: this with a pandemic of kindness. And again, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for having me and for all what you're
Speaker 1: doing out there. Appreciate We appreciate you too. Good luck
Speaker 1: and we're we're rooting for you're rooting for us. All
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Dr Mike Oster home from sid rap in
Speaker 1: the great state of Minnesota. That was something. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if I should call him Dr oster Home or
Speaker 1: Dr Wokester Home. Yeah, I did it. Yeah, I'm corny.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do about it? Nothing because it's
Speaker 1: already recorded. So just accepted Dr Michael Wokester Home host privilege. Okay,
Speaker 1: settled down Bariton day. The way that Dr oster Holme
Speaker 1: weaved in our opportunity and obligation to deal with racial
Speaker 1: disparities and inequality, that was impressive and honestly a bit unexpected.
Speaker 1: Major thanks to Dr Mike oster Home and his team
Speaker 1: at sid RAP, the Center for Infectious Disease Research and
Speaker 1: Policy at the University of Minnesota. Thanks for joining and
Speaker 1: reminding us to be safe, be kind, and be active.
Speaker 1: You can follow Dr ulster Home on Twitter M t
Speaker 1: oster Home O S T E R H O l M,
Speaker 1: or follow at sid RAP c I D R A
Speaker 1: P on the socials and visit the website sid RAP
Speaker 1: dot you m in as in University of Minnesota dot
Speaker 1: E D you like we always do. We're gonna post
Speaker 1: this episode of transcript, show notes and more at how
Speaker 1: to citizen dot com. I'm gonna ask a special favor
Speaker 1: on this one because I think this is a public
Speaker 1: health value to everyone. Please share this episode with everyone
Speaker 1: you know. They don't have to dig the whole series,
Speaker 1: but let them listen to this one and listen to
Speaker 1: Dr Ulster Home. He's been such a straight shooter throughout
Speaker 1: this whole thing, and I think if more people heard
Speaker 1: him and followed what he said, more of us would
Speaker 1: make it through this whole Now time for some action
Speaker 1: on the internal front. I want you to subscribe to
Speaker 1: the Ulster Home Update COVID nineteen Michael Ulster Holmes podcast.
Speaker 1: You can find it wherever podcasts are found, search for
Speaker 1: it online. The U R role is a mess, so
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say it out loud, but if you
Speaker 1: see the show notes on your podcast app, you should
Speaker 1: just be able to click the link there. I want
Speaker 1: you to think about the worst and the best for
Speaker 1: you in this pandemic, Like, what's the worst thing you've experienced,
Speaker 1: Maybe you lost a job, maybe you lost a person.
Speaker 1: Make a little space to grieve and acknowledge that. And
Speaker 1: on the flip side, what's the best thing that's happened
Speaker 1: to you during this pandemic? Have you had more quality
Speaker 1: time with your friends? Did you finally clean your garage?
Speaker 1: I don't care how big or small the thing is.
Speaker 1: Embrace it. Embrace the positives and the negatives of this
Speaker 1: COVID year. We are in without guilt, without shame, and
Speaker 1: know that you are not alone in that. I want
Speaker 1: you to recommit to suppressing this virus. We can do this,
Speaker 1: but we all need to show up to this. We
Speaker 1: know it's hard, we're tired, and we're angry, but I
Speaker 1: want us to remember why we are making these sacrifices.
Speaker 1: It's not to satisfy a public health bureaucrat. We make
Speaker 1: these sacrifices to save lives. We make them to keep
Speaker 1: our health care system from being overrun, which we all need,
Speaker 1: whether we have COVID or not. Keep physical just and
Speaker 1: wear masks, wash hands. Let's dig deep and rediscover the
Speaker 1: spirit of shared sacrifice that has enabled us to rise
Speaker 1: to other difficult moments in our past. I'm not asking
Speaker 1: you to go overseas to enlist in the armed services.
Speaker 1: I'm not asking you to melt down all your spare copper.
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to work with each other, to help
Speaker 1: each other and recommit to that because I'm tired too.
Speaker 1: I'm not sitting up here just like adhering to everything easily.
Speaker 1: It is exhausting, but we can do this. We must
Speaker 1: do this all right. On the external action front, if
Speaker 1: you can support a local COVID relief fund, Dr Osterholme
Speaker 1: talked about the increase savings rate. Many of us are
Speaker 1: suffering extraordinarily financially. Some of us are doing much better
Speaker 1: or good enough and can spare something. So I want
Speaker 1: you to search in your search engine of choice for
Speaker 1: donate COVID relief fund and then the name of your city.
Speaker 1: Find a way to support someone who needs it right
Speaker 1: now and make it easier for them to help us
Speaker 1: all stay safe. Reach out to someone who's isolated. This
Speaker 1: comes right from Dr Ulster home. There are so many
Speaker 1: of us who've had to retreat from company, from each
Speaker 1: other for our health. Check in on those people, give
Speaker 1: them a call, a video chat, stop by safely distantly
Speaker 1: to let them know that they're not in fact alone
Speaker 1: because you're there. And finally, be kind and spread that
Speaker 1: pandemic of kindness to counter the pandemic of fear, the
Speaker 1: pandemic of COVID. Do something nice and unexpected for someone today.
Speaker 1: Anyone small is okay. Just do it, and then do
Speaker 1: something else for someone else tomorrow and repeat that and
Speaker 1: tell us about it. Hit us up, tell someone about
Speaker 1: to put it on the hashtag, email us action how
Speaker 1: to citizen dot Com Stretch beyond your comfort zone that
Speaker 1: we're struggling through in these unprecedented times. We're in a
Speaker 1: hard moment and I acknowledge that. But we're here so
Speaker 1: we can still do and we must. We must show
Speaker 1: up and invest in each other, know our power, and
Speaker 1: serve the many, not the few. Let's do this for
Speaker 1: each other. Thank you. As always, we welcome your contributions,
Speaker 1: your thoughts, comments at how to citizen dot com. You
Speaker 1: can visit the website. How does citizen dot com Find
Speaker 1: me online? Wherever barrattone day? The user name is found?
Speaker 1: That is me, Patreon, Instagram, everywhere. I got them all
Speaker 1: and you can text me two to eight nine four four.
Speaker 1: Put the words citizen in there so I know how
Speaker 1: you found me. Congratulations. We made it through another election,
Speaker 1: and we are going to make it through this pandemic
Speaker 1: if we do it together. How does Citizen with Barton
Speaker 1: Day as a production of I Heart Radio Podcasts, Executive
Speaker 1: produced by Miles Gray, Nick Stump, Elizabeth Stewart and Barratton
Speaker 1: day Thurston. Produced by Joel Smith, Edited by Justin Smith.
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