Speaker 1: My mom was a world of contradictions. She would pet
Speaker 1: your head and tell you how well behaved and talented
Speaker 1: you were. She didn't like to be sassed. She couldn't
Speaker 1: stand us screaming in the car or running from her
Speaker 1: in the grocery store. The things she hated most was
Speaker 1: causing a scene. She felt like outsiders were judging her
Speaker 1: for having bad children. Looking back, I can see why
Speaker 1: she was so nuts. She had five children in eight years.
Speaker 1: Her obstetrician had warned her several times that her body
Speaker 1: wasn't going to withstand much more damage. He was right.
Speaker 1: She could never have children again. So you see, we
Speaker 1: almost killed my mom by just being born. Welcome to
Speaker 1: The Dougherty Gang, a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Katie Studios episode four Less than Perfectly Obedient. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
Speaker 1: a crime producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ladecker. We've
Speaker 1: been working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Dockerty Gang
Speaker 1: for months now. The three siblings have agreed to tell
Speaker 1: their story for the very first time, each from separate prisons.
Speaker 1: Lee Grace Dockerty is at Federal Correction Institute Aliceville in Alabama.
Speaker 1: Ryan is in the United States Penitentiary Tucson in Arizona,
Speaker 1: and Dylan is at the Federal Corrections Institute in Bennettsville
Speaker 1: in South Carolina. This call was from the Federal prison.
Speaker 1: When you have that amount of a journaline going through you,
Speaker 1: you're not sure how to act because it's not something
Speaker 1: that's happening every single day. You know, we don't we
Speaker 1: don't have that type of interaction, So everything was happening
Speaker 1: very staff. The Doughertys had zero chance of flying under
Speaker 1: the radar after a high speed chase in which they
Speaker 1: shot at a Pascal County sheriff deputy with an AK
Speaker 1: forty seven. Here's older brother Dylan. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: having a heart attack for about four hours after that
Speaker 1: morning they're troubled. Began in Florida, when officials say twenty
Speaker 1: nine year old Lee, one year old Ryan, and twenty
Speaker 1: six year old Dylan led police in a high speed chase,
Speaker 1: then opened fire, got a way after shooting out the
Speaker 1: police car is tired. Sheriff Chris Naco, the sheriff of
Speaker 1: Pascal County, shares his thoughts on the start of the
Speaker 1: Dougherty Gangs crime spree. It's ironic and law of force.
Speaker 1: And we tell people, if you're going to commit a crime,
Speaker 1: just commit one crime. If you commit two crimes, you're
Speaker 1: way more likely to get caught. Because the fact that
Speaker 1: he had cut an ankle bracelet off, we would have
Speaker 1: never probably been notified at the time, and had they
Speaker 1: just driven down the streets at a normal speed, they
Speaker 1: would have blended in with everybody else crying why would
Speaker 1: you speed in the middle of town? Did you see
Speaker 1: the cops before that? I think we could have made
Speaker 1: a different decision. We could have gone a different way
Speaker 1: and the police would never have gotten behind us, and
Speaker 1: we would have just had continued our merry way, so
Speaker 1: he would have been able to get on if that
Speaker 1: was their intentions, to get out of state of Florida
Speaker 1: very easily. But you know, when you're speeding down, you're
Speaker 1: committing now two offenses, one cutting off to the ankle bracelet,
Speaker 1: but you are, you know, speeding, It just starts multiplying.
Speaker 1: So at that point, you know, it wasn't the fact
Speaker 1: that he had cut off his ankle bracelet. Nobody was notified.
Speaker 1: Nobody probably would have been notified immediately. What got them,
Speaker 1: you know, having wind or pulling behind him was the
Speaker 1: fact that they were speeding. We were each in a
Speaker 1: in our different version of escape. You know. It was
Speaker 1: like when you have nowhere to go. I mean, you
Speaker 1: feel like you're cornered. There's no way back. I think
Speaker 1: that was probably one of the scariest moments of being
Speaker 1: on the road, is knowing that there's no way you
Speaker 1: could ever return to where you're from. You know, you
Speaker 1: can never go back to Tampa, you can never go
Speaker 1: back to Orlando. It's just, you know, you're completely alienated
Speaker 1: from the place where you grew up. And I think
Speaker 1: as we're driving farther and farther north, there was a
Speaker 1: sense of relief that kind of settled in the car,
Speaker 1: you know. And I just kept looking at Ryan like,
Speaker 1: you're damn good driver, because I know I couldn't have
Speaker 1: done that. You know, either I would erecked or killed myself,
Speaker 1: killed somebody else. But he really wasn't reacting. I think
Speaker 1: away that, you Knowlan and I were reacting. I was
Speaker 1: reacting very erratically. I was like, you know, holy sh it,
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do? How we just ran from
Speaker 1: the cops? What the hell. Here's how Ryan described the
Speaker 1: shootout last episode. The goal is always either just not
Speaker 1: alcohol on the radiator, because you might have three to
Speaker 1: five minutes flat out with one of those Crown Vics
Speaker 1: before it overneath fast shot at you from about forty
Speaker 1: or left away, and they caught about forty rounds right
Speaker 1: above the driver's side. Dire apologize for shooting at him.
Speaker 1: It was between him and my freedom and it was
Speaker 1: in no way personal. Here's the Docty Gang movie writer
Speaker 1: producer director Sean McEwen speaking with Beth All. My understanding
Speaker 1: of that came through the police reports, uh and what
Speaker 1: the news had eventually covered, and then that fed into
Speaker 1: the opportunity that I had to sit down with each
Speaker 1: of you know, Lead Grace, Ryan and Dylan in person
Speaker 1: and talk to them. So when I first met them,
Speaker 1: which now I'm thinking is really been about eight years ago,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sitting there with Dylan and you know,
Speaker 1: looking at him eyeball to eyeball. He's obviously in prison
Speaker 1: and I was out of visitation. You know, when he
Speaker 1: recounts the story and you know, so compelling but fascinating,
Speaker 1: I think thinks to valliums is you know, flash forward
Speaker 1: two years later, as Ryan's telling the story now in
Speaker 1: a way, it's his way of trying to protect his siblings,
Speaker 1: like essentially him now saying, well, no, I was the
Speaker 1: one who was shooting at the Coppins up for Hills.
Speaker 1: I was the one who leaned out the window. Yet
Speaker 1: he was the one driving. So listen, I know he
Speaker 1: keeps mentioning and everyone around him said he was a
Speaker 1: great driver. But that's like something out of a not
Speaker 1: even a movie, like out of a cartoon or something.
Speaker 1: To think you could be flying around a hundred miles
Speaker 1: an hour down the streets and up hills and leaned
Speaker 1: out the windows shooting perfectly at a cops tire. Um.
Speaker 1: I think what's so fascinating about that is even to
Speaker 1: this day, they're still trying anything they can to protect
Speaker 1: the other one, even if it means jeopard i using
Speaker 1: their own freedom or safety. And I think that again
Speaker 1: speaks volumes. Ryan is able to protect them. I guess
Speaker 1: the circumstances of Florida are different for each one. So
Speaker 1: Ryan being able to do that is because he already
Speaker 1: accepted a deal. Um, That's how I understand it. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I'm not wanting to obviously get
Speaker 1: anybody in trouble. But how I'm understanding it is is
Speaker 1: that you know, Ryan still was up on various charges
Speaker 1: and still has certain legal dynamics of dealing with and
Speaker 1: because of that, I think he was like, look, I'm
Speaker 1: already taking the fall for some things. Um, yes, it
Speaker 1: will make my situation that much more challenging, that much
Speaker 1: more worse. But again I'd rather, you know, let let
Speaker 1: it all right on me to hopefully, you know, ease
Speaker 1: up on my my siblings here and makes better for them,
Speaker 1: And they always seem to be willing to do that.
Speaker 1: This is a family, and these are kids that aren't
Speaker 1: going to turn on each other. They would rather take
Speaker 1: the fall tenfold than have anything happened to the other one.
Speaker 1: Dylan talks to Beth, saying he is actually the one
Speaker 1: to pull the trigger. The truth comes down to what
Speaker 1: actually happened ten years ago. Were you the one for
Speaker 1: the shots or was it Ryan? Sometimes when Ryan talked
Speaker 1: about it, it sounded like he had done it. No,
Speaker 1: he did. He did. He was driving the car. You know,
Speaker 1: when you're driving on in forty it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to shoot. So you know, I did all the student
Speaker 1: I which I can say that they know that they
Speaker 1: had the video. UM, I've said it before, and you
Speaker 1: know what I mean is what it is. I can't
Speaker 1: change the past. Here's Ryan followed by Lee Grace. You know,
Speaker 1: it just got to a point when we were driving
Speaker 1: and we were like, man, what you know what? Essentially
Speaker 1: like what are we doing? Because the original plan is
Speaker 1: kind of food bar So you've got to kind of
Speaker 1: roll with it. After that initial shape and you realize
Speaker 1: you're you've gotten away from the cops, there's a euphorical
Speaker 1: relief like you're like, oh, okay, we're good. We're saying
Speaker 1: we don't have to run anymore, we can just drive normally. Well,
Speaker 1: the docertees went along their journey feeling they had no
Speaker 1: choice but to continue. Law enforcement had a pretty different interpretation.
Speaker 1: Here's the active sheriff Naco. But when you have an
Speaker 1: incident where there's numerous people in a vehicle, they're shooting
Speaker 1: at law enforcement. Um, and then it starts didding up
Speaker 1: that he cut the ankle bracelet. Those are patterns that
Speaker 1: kind of don't fit in the normal flow. Here's executive
Speaker 1: producer Joseph Morgan, a forensic scientist and criminal justice expert.
Speaker 1: They sealed their fate at that moment time, because when
Speaker 1: someone pulls a weapon with intent to fire in the
Speaker 1: direction of police officer, you're challenging not just that police officer,
Speaker 1: but all of the other law enforcement agencies that are
Speaker 1: about to descend upon you, because they cannot have a
Speaker 1: group of people run around buck wild, up and down
Speaker 1: the road. The Doughertees cross country Spree was initiated when
Speaker 1: twenty one year old Ryan went to court to face
Speaker 1: felony charges of sending a minor harmful information and loadingless
Speaker 1: of his conduct, sending sexually inappropriate text to a miner
Speaker 1: is unarguedly deplorable. It was also one more thing and
Speaker 1: a string of bad actions and situations Ryan got himself in.
Speaker 1: Going back to his complicated childhood. Here he is talking
Speaker 1: about growing up followed by his mother, Barbara Bell. My
Speaker 1: mom tried really hard, and she really loved all of
Speaker 1: us kids. Like that's not ever anything that's a singled
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind ever any any day of the week.
Speaker 1: And none of her kids have got the doubt that ever.
Speaker 1: But you know, on the flip side of that, man,
Speaker 1: like you know, she she came up short to Marius
Speaker 1: and she came through stronger than was necessary and others
Speaker 1: so like you know. And then on the same side
Speaker 1: of that, I think, I sit and I think to
Speaker 1: myself and Mike, at least she was present. I'm almost there.
Speaker 1: Like she worked a lot, she slept a lot, she
Speaker 1: was tired from working doubles back to back to back
Speaker 1: to back, working her fucking eyes to the phone, you know,
Speaker 1: to provide for us. I thought they would be better
Speaker 1: off with a single mother that worked and demonstrated independence
Speaker 1: and encouraged them to be independent, rather than a stay
Speaker 1: at home, have nothing, go nowhere mother meeting them at
Speaker 1: the bus stop with an apron on and a tray
Speaker 1: full of brownies. Now, maybe in retrospect, I would have
Speaker 1: been better off to wear the apron and baked the brownies.
Speaker 1: Dylan lived a much different life than Lee, Grace and Ryan.
Speaker 1: When he was younger, his father Doc and mom Barbara
Speaker 1: thought Dylan would have more opportunities by going to live
Speaker 1: with his aunt Susanne and uncle Glen in Kentucky. Dylan
Speaker 1: could not read in third grade, and at that point
Speaker 1: he had already spent a lot of summers in Kentucky
Speaker 1: with extended family and was very happy and kept very
Speaker 1: busy and out of trouble up there, and so um
Speaker 1: at the point where I realized Dylan could not read,
Speaker 1: DOC and I both felt that education was extremely important.
Speaker 1: And he went up to live out of out of state.
Speaker 1: And at that point he missed his brothers and sisters
Speaker 1: and they missed him, but they kept in touch over
Speaker 1: the phone and occasional letter. My brother was raised by
Speaker 1: my aunt and uncle, that was their kid. He had
Speaker 1: a different upbringing and me. He learned a different skill set,
Speaker 1: and we grew up together until I was about seven
Speaker 1: or eight when I moved to Kentucky with my aunt
Speaker 1: uncle who later at top three and um my dad
Speaker 1: sent me up there. I think partly because I had
Speaker 1: a d and also because my an uncle had substantially
Speaker 1: more money. I don't know, because he's living on a
Speaker 1: farm would be good for me. And I remember my
Speaker 1: dad telling me, you know, he said, you know, pay
Speaker 1: attention and learned everything in I probably would have tried
Speaker 1: harder to keep them all together. However, I couldn't have
Speaker 1: dreamed of a better upbringing than Dylan was receiving where
Speaker 1: he was living at his new home. Therefore, I thought
Speaker 1: I was doing the right thing. John and Ivon Clinton
Speaker 1: lived next door to Glenn and Suzanne Stanley. I mean
Speaker 1: both of them were great people. It's not hard to
Speaker 1: get along with, or not not argumentative or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I mean very nurturing. I'd say both of them were,
Speaker 1: even with Glenn's army career and everything that's for nurturing people.
Speaker 1: Glynn was a marine and he had an extraordinary experience
Speaker 1: in Vietnam where his all of his unit basically was
Speaker 1: killed except for him, and he had to play dad
Speaker 1: for I don't know, like twenty four hours. It's I've
Speaker 1: read the story of its incredible. So he was a
Speaker 1: he was a gentle person, but he also had a
Speaker 1: tough side. I mean I would have trusted him to
Speaker 1: raise my children. Living on a farm with it was
Speaker 1: an interesting childhood and I called my parents, you know,
Speaker 1: it's my aunt and my uncle put there with my
Speaker 1: mom and dad. The whole thing really for me, I
Speaker 1: had two moms that did love me, and both of
Speaker 1: them had their own individual impacts on my life and
Speaker 1: its developed to who I am and then I'll had
Speaker 1: to fathers. It had a big impact on my life
Speaker 1: where I've got all my core character and beliefs from
Speaker 1: the president. They were great. I think he had a
Speaker 1: good balance one now that I've had teenagers, I don't
Speaker 1: say that he was necessarily completely out of control. And
Speaker 1: at one time he missed the bus and so one
Speaker 1: time they had him walked to school and maybe he
Speaker 1: didn't go. I think there's some story like that, but
Speaker 1: it was it's almost like a humorous story, like later
Speaker 1: on humorist, like you know, this is the things we
Speaker 1: went through or whatever. But um, as far as I know,
Speaker 1: I mean, there wasn't any serious things. There was just
Speaker 1: teenage stuff. And obviously he didn't throw trauma losing his
Speaker 1: dad and obviously that's gonna make life difficult. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a quick break here. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: a moment. Mom Barbara recounts her husband Doc's death and
Speaker 1: the impact on their children. When his father was dying,
Speaker 1: and I see you at Central Florida Regional Hospital in Stanford,
Speaker 1: where by the way, he had excellent care. Uh. Dylan
Speaker 1: was escorted to his bedside and Doc ask him, please
Speaker 1: please look after your younger brother. The hardest thing I
Speaker 1: ever had to do in my life was to tell
Speaker 1: my children that their father had died, that he had
Speaker 1: breathing and that he had passed away and that they
Speaker 1: would not see him again, even the kids that weren't
Speaker 1: they weren't his nieces and nephews. That everybody called him
Speaker 1: huncle dog everywhere. But that was just our family. Our
Speaker 1: atmosphere in our home was, you know, what was having fun.
Speaker 1: We were always said, you know, run and you know,
Speaker 1: the rains were very loose. But yeah, I think he's
Speaker 1: would be way different. Obviously if my father hadn't passed away.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was permanent at the time. I
Speaker 1: don't think he wants to do with like perman I
Speaker 1: think it may have been in his mind I was
Speaker 1: going to go up there and live for two or three,
Speaker 1: you know years or something, and not what happened. You know,
Speaker 1: he died and I wasn't able to move back. Then.
Speaker 1: He was not legally adopted up there until after Doc died.
Speaker 1: And after Doc died, I said, this is the best
Speaker 1: thing I could possibly do for my son is to
Speaker 1: allow him to be adopted. And so we was. We
Speaker 1: still kept in touch. We were all in the same family,
Speaker 1: but it was different. Dylan has a very strong draw
Speaker 1: to all his siblings, and I think this was hard
Speaker 1: on Dylan, and once he became an adult, he kept
Speaker 1: in very close touch with his sisters and his younger
Speaker 1: brother and sister. Once Doc passed away, I knew I
Speaker 1: couldn't handle five kids, especially with two teenage girls who
Speaker 1: were already less than perfectly obedient. As is not unusual
Speaker 1: at all, Lee Grace and Ryan were growing up under
Speaker 1: far different circumstances. My mom is just the academy of
Speaker 1: you know, mommy diarist, So you just had to catch her,
Speaker 1: you know, on a good day. After Doc died. It
Speaker 1: was like night and day. Before Doc died, those kids
Speaker 1: were pretty much well behaved and no problems. But after
Speaker 1: he died, I will admit I lost control of the kids.
Speaker 1: The oldest was fourteen, the youngest was seven. The younger
Speaker 1: ones were still good, but the teenagers did not do
Speaker 1: everything I asked them to do. Here's Lee Grace speaking
Speaker 1: with producer Beth Greenwald. My mom's number one rule for
Speaker 1: us children was, if you of an adult is speaking
Speaker 1: to her, do not contradict what she is saying, because
Speaker 1: she wants to be in control of the narrative. You know,
Speaker 1: she wants to be in charge and kids are not
Speaker 1: to back cross their parents because it looks trashy. What
Speaker 1: was the punishment for talking back? You know, it was
Speaker 1: different for each child because my mom was very last
Speaker 1: with Ryan, and you have to look at what type
Speaker 1: of child he was. He was a very smiley, very
Speaker 1: easy going, soft spoken. He was a real sweetheart. So
Speaker 1: my mom she didn't really have to put her hands
Speaker 1: on Ryan like the older children. So I think when
Speaker 1: my mom looked at him, maybe she's all something of
Speaker 1: my father in him, you know, maybe that's why she
Speaker 1: didn't hit him as much. You know, the one time
Speaker 1: that I did fight my mom, I ended up in
Speaker 1: juvenile you know, I was in j DC, So you know,
Speaker 1: I knew that was wrong to hit my mom. Why
Speaker 1: did I hit my mom? Because I felt like she
Speaker 1: deserved it, and it was really something I'm not proud of.
Speaker 1: But I think everything in your path you have to
Speaker 1: own it. You have to say I did this. I
Speaker 1: did this for a reason. It might not be a
Speaker 1: great reason, but you did it. Did you tell my
Speaker 1: mom would lose her temper she fold her tongue in half,
Speaker 1: that she would bite it and then you would know, crap,
Speaker 1: she's lost her cool? Get away from her. But when
Speaker 1: we live on a big farm, go away from her
Speaker 1: for like an hour or two, and she's fine again.
Speaker 1: It's like anybody. There's no like real abuse that occurred,
Speaker 1: nothing more than whatever happened with other kids in the
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. You know, I never saw my siblings
Speaker 1: get abused. Never. Never, Like if you get spat, if
Speaker 1: you get whipped. I don't see that as abused, as
Speaker 1: long as you have your emotions in check when you
Speaker 1: do it. My relationship with my mom deteriorated, so I
Speaker 1: didn't have a real close relationship. Um. You know, no
Speaker 1: matter how close we were, we still had a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, animosity, a lot of anger. The way
Speaker 1: that his death affected my children, Lee, Grace, my oldest,
Speaker 1: my beautiful little China doll, she more or less blocked
Speaker 1: it out. She never grieved till over a year after
Speaker 1: he had been gone. She called mother good night. There
Speaker 1: was something funny in her voice, and I went in
Speaker 1: the living room and sat down with her and we
Speaker 1: went through a photo album together, and that was the
Speaker 1: first she cried after Doc died. She did not handle
Speaker 1: it well. I think that we need counseling. I think
Speaker 1: that we need somebody to sit down with us in
Speaker 1: a private room and go back to our childhood, our
Speaker 1: young adulthood and to see where all this trauma and
Speaker 1: this you know, this family dynamic that makes you do
Speaker 1: something that brings you to prison. Here again, Sean McEwan,
Speaker 1: and the Grace has been open about this, and you
Speaker 1: know she had her drug use problems, and it's almost
Speaker 1: like this sense of like, man, she could have used
Speaker 1: help and not jail, Like do any feeling on just
Speaker 1: that subject. I'm so sorry for my daughter because she's
Speaker 1: a different person now, a very kind, caring, loving person.
Speaker 1: And all my kids will always be my kids, and
Speaker 1: I love them very much, and I'm very proud of
Speaker 1: them for holding up as well as they have under
Speaker 1: extremely dire circumstances. It would be the greatest hope for
Speaker 1: their futures from where you're sitting. Who did Doc used
Speaker 1: to say, hoping one hand and ship in the other
Speaker 1: and see which one fills up first. I have hope
Speaker 1: that my children will continue to be strong and courageous
Speaker 1: and good people no matter where they are. That's not
Speaker 1: a hope, that's a that's a reality. Okay, They're gonna
Speaker 1: be strong they're gonna be brave, they're gonna be good
Speaker 1: people wherever they are. All the times I was just underwater,
Speaker 1: just drowning, just I had nothing going on in my life,
Speaker 1: you know, I was just going down that rabbit hole
Speaker 1: of drugs and pills and just my own insecurities and
Speaker 1: my anxiety. You know, one hall or text message from Dylan,
Speaker 1: and I would just realize, Hey, he's gonna come get me,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be okay, you know. So I didn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of worry because I knew at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, if I called Dylan and told him, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is what's happening, I knew Dylan was gonna draw
Speaker 1: what he was doing and saved me, you know. And
Speaker 1: that's important when you have a sibling like that, you
Speaker 1: know that you cannot go under a certain line. Here's Joseph,
Speaker 1: you know. Even her brother, you know, years later, had
Speaker 1: to bring her back to what they referred to as
Speaker 1: the farm and help her dry out. Can you imagine,
Speaker 1: you know, And it's hard for a lot of folks
Speaker 1: to image and that you've got an older sister whom
Speaker 1: you're a door and you love and you're bound to
Speaker 1: you've been through a lot, You've been through a lot
Speaker 1: of loss, and you see her kind of spinning you
Speaker 1: off like a top off its axis. I can't speak
Speaker 1: to this as a lifelong death investigator. That's all I
Speaker 1: did for a living, working with a corner of New
Speaker 1: Orleans of the Emmy in Atlanta. I've described death from
Speaker 1: the four. It's like the slabby drunk at a party
Speaker 1: that will never leave your life. Death is always there.
Speaker 1: It has a residue that sticks to you. I moved
Speaker 1: out and after id and then with my stepdad got cancer,
Speaker 1: my parents kind of asked me to move back home
Speaker 1: because my mom needed a lot of help. My stepdad, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he died when I was twenty four. It
Speaker 1: was weird. And I lost my real dad when I
Speaker 1: was twelve, and then he died twelve years later when
Speaker 1: I was twenty four. And uh, my aunt mom has
Speaker 1: since remarried, and she's been married for several years now,
Speaker 1: and she lives in Virginia and the Canada River Valley
Speaker 1: with her new houseband, which which I like. He's a
Speaker 1: nice guy and takes takes care of her. And you know,
Speaker 1: I can't ask for anything more than the son McEwan
Speaker 1: discusses how Dylan tried to help Brian and Lee Grace
Speaker 1: get back on track. I think that you know from
Speaker 1: my discussions with Dylan that he always spelt a sense
Speaker 1: of guilt in that here he got to go live
Speaker 1: with me at and uncles, you know, where they were
Speaker 1: raising horses and doing the whole farthing thing and all
Speaker 1: that kind of great stuff, and here they were kind
Speaker 1: of left in a situation that was challenging to say
Speaker 1: the least, and in doing so, I think when he
Speaker 1: did eventually come back into a live and make his
Speaker 1: way back down to Florida, uh, in his you know,
Speaker 1: late late teams to early twenties, um, he did always
Speaker 1: steal the sense of response, stability and maybe guilt and
Speaker 1: regret that he got to go away. So, you know,
Speaker 1: keeping them safe was, you know, seemed to be always
Speaker 1: a motivation for him. So when he comes back into
Speaker 1: the picture and he sees that limes in this kind
Speaker 1: of situation where you know, Lion's gotten into trouble with
Speaker 1: the law and is going to potentially violate his probation,
Speaker 1: and he sent back for far too many years to
Speaker 1: mention and the graces I mean to be blunt is,
Speaker 1: you know, stripping in a strip club down in Cocoa Beach, Florida,
Speaker 1: and you know, getting in trouble with a long people
Speaker 1: and using drugs and all that stuff. And he saw
Speaker 1: that their lives were kind of a mess, and I
Speaker 1: think in a way, he saw this opportunity to protect
Speaker 1: them finally, to kind of round them up and keep
Speaker 1: them safe and obviously making a lot of very distinct
Speaker 1: decisions and doing so that impacted their lives and probably
Speaker 1: not the right decision. And I say that very facetiously,
Speaker 1: but he did that nonetheless. So that was a big
Speaker 1: part of that. Also, my brother has always been there
Speaker 1: to kind of bail me out, and even to his
Speaker 1: own gentriment. You know, he just has that in him.
Speaker 1: He's he's a fighter. He's gonna fight for his family,
Speaker 1: he's gonna fight for people that he loves. And once
Speaker 1: you're a friend of Dylan, he will never leave you behind,
Speaker 1: no matter how bad or treacherous. I've never seen Dylan
Speaker 1: falter never, no matter what it is. You know, when
Speaker 1: we were on the road, something bad would happen. I said,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so you know, what's gonna happen
Speaker 1: in Asia, he'd say, just calm down, I'm here. We're
Speaker 1: gonna take care of this as a team. You know. No,
Speaker 1: Dylan's big thing is no man left behind. He's not
Speaker 1: gonna leave a straggler. He does not drop his teammates.
Speaker 1: He's gonna pull you out of that burning building. I
Speaker 1: don't care if your bar, your body is charged to
Speaker 1: a Chris, He's still gonna save you. Dylan was loyal,
Speaker 1: hard working, and had a clean record, despite what the
Speaker 1: media was saying. The sheriff here in Pascoe County says
Speaker 1: all three siblings have a criminal record, and the siblings
Speaker 1: all have a troubled past, including drug possession, battery, and burglary.
Speaker 1: Mom Barbara speaks up in defensive her son. He had
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor marijuana charge for an empty baggy that may
Speaker 1: or may not have contained an herb that is now
Speaker 1: legal in seventeen state. So that was his big criminal record.
Speaker 1: Twenty six years old, Eve's never a trouble a day
Speaker 1: in his life. A really fine, hard working, good person.
Speaker 1: I've never been to jail. I was twenty three. I
Speaker 1: was actually taking Ryan to turn himself into jail. That's
Speaker 1: hard to believe. Isn't it. My brother actually had an
Speaker 1: active warrant and that's why we he was over there
Speaker 1: to to to go to jail and get that. We
Speaker 1: get that taken care of. When I got arrested, I
Speaker 1: went to jail for an empty plastic bag, I believe
Speaker 1: it or not. It probably had like residue. There was
Speaker 1: no shaking. It was just like the crystal, like the
Speaker 1: actual the th HC. They arresting for possession of marijuana.
Speaker 1: That's what that was. What it was like I said,
Speaker 1: it was an empty plastic bag. Was later expunged off
Speaker 1: my record. You know, I don't litter, so if the
Speaker 1: bag was still in the car, let's stop here for
Speaker 1: another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. Lee
Speaker 1: Grace talks about their decision to make the next choice
Speaker 1: on their journey, and then, um, as we got to
Speaker 1: the north part of seventy five, you know, you're realizing
Speaker 1: that you got away, but how far are you going
Speaker 1: to get with very little cash flow? Once that money
Speaker 1: is gone, you know, you need money for gas, you
Speaker 1: need money for food, and traveling very expensive. So I
Speaker 1: felt like at that point, you know, once we got
Speaker 1: over the state line, it was kind of one of
Speaker 1: those situations like we're just looking at each other like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess it's I guess we're gonna have to do this,
Speaker 1: And I think, um, you know, as you know, you're
Speaker 1: a group dynamic and you have an incident happening, you
Speaker 1: make it away from that incident. It kind of gives
Speaker 1: you a feeling that you know you're invincible. You can't
Speaker 1: get caught because if you it, if they really wanted
Speaker 1: to catch you, or if they could catch you, they
Speaker 1: would already cost you. So it gives you that you
Speaker 1: fork freedom to kind of do something else. And I
Speaker 1: think that's you know, that's where you get. You get
Speaker 1: caught up, that's where you get you make your mistakes.
Speaker 1: It's because you allow yourself show us enough for what
Speaker 1: elp to hang yourself because you realize, well, it really
Speaker 1: wasn't that hard. My brother was a good driver, you know,
Speaker 1: our fumer held up pretty well and we didn't get caught.
Speaker 1: So maybe we can just keep going down this road
Speaker 1: and you know, get away with it. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's a double edged forward. You get away, but for
Speaker 1: how long? Here again is on the whole idea of
Speaker 1: robbing banks was still on the fly. And this is
Speaker 1: how this was expressed to me, was that as they
Speaker 1: were on the run, one bad situation led to another,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they faced with the
Speaker 1: fact that they get in the shootout with a cop
Speaker 1: and then it's like, man, how are we going to
Speaker 1: make this happen to get out of the country. I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to romanticize this, but this all came through
Speaker 1: the sieve of watching movies. It's like, you know, banks, well,
Speaker 1: banks are ensured it's the government's money. In a way,
Speaker 1: we're not. We're not taking from people, you know, it's
Speaker 1: the system that did us wrong. That was their perception
Speaker 1: and misperception. So we'll go in and we'll take from
Speaker 1: the banks, because hey, that's fair, and then we'll use
Speaker 1: that money to finance ourselves and get It's kind of
Speaker 1: like the you know, came from the rich, give to
Speaker 1: the poor kind of thing, because they kind of looked
Speaker 1: at hey, we're the poor. I know it sounds funny
Speaker 1: and comical, but that's kind of how they looked at it. Hey,
Speaker 1: we deserve this, So that's that's what they did. At
Speaker 1: the time of their crime spree, they were all doing
Speaker 1: very well. They were all three working. They were all
Speaker 1: three in a stable family and home life. Everything was
Speaker 1: going going so well. We knew that, you know, these
Speaker 1: three had to be smart enough not to use credit cards.
Speaker 1: Would then it start up following more in line up
Speaker 1: there death breats. They're willing to do anything over You
Speaker 1: had to believe that they were going to have to
Speaker 1: get cash somewhere. Mainly it's like, yo, what do you
Speaker 1: do in order to get more money? What do you
Speaker 1: do in order to get some fake papers? What do
Speaker 1: you do in order to get somebody to kind of
Speaker 1: usher you across the border? What's the issues with security
Speaker 1: with going across the border? You know what? What's there's
Speaker 1: a million questions and a lot of them you don't
Speaker 1: have answers to, and it causes trepidation and you're just
Speaker 1: you're not sure what it is that you want to do.
Speaker 1: It's it's a vacillation. It's not a big old indecisiveness.
Speaker 1: You're not really sure what it is that you should do,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's just most of it's just
Speaker 1: based out of fear. I can say I'm not ashamed
Speaker 1: of it, man, I was afraid. That situation made me
Speaker 1: brave and made me scared. Dylan was blinded by love
Speaker 1: and loyalty for his little brother. It was taking him
Speaker 1: in a completely different direction from the clean life he'd
Speaker 1: been living, and he was about to commit a federal crime.
Speaker 1: We weren't already committed after dimity appealing floor, so to speak.
Speaker 1: We were really committed after that. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: just like, you know, I don't think the actually like
Speaker 1: a number, like like, oh, this is how much money
Speaker 1: we need per state. I know Mexico's exchange rates pretty good,
Speaker 1: but it's not that good pretty At that point, we
Speaker 1: were already committed. That's not you know. I thought, somehow
Speaker 1: my had that it would be a good idea to
Speaker 1: rob some banks and leave the United States. The dopertees
Speaker 1: knew they had little chance of successfully robbing a bank
Speaker 1: in Florida. They'd have a better chance in a surrounding state.
Speaker 1: We're going to rob a certain bank that was in Florida.
Speaker 1: But when we got caught speeding there and we banged
Speaker 1: it out with them in the street, it was a
Speaker 1: bad idea to stay in Florida, and when you cross
Speaker 1: state lines to confuses them until it gets to a
Speaker 1: point where it's federal and then certain states automatically they
Speaker 1: don't like cooperating with another one another. You would think
Speaker 1: that there'd be some interage andcy cooperation there, and there's
Speaker 1: really not. They really don't like each other, like they
Speaker 1: don't want help from one they don't want to ask
Speaker 1: for help. And then like Florida gets piste off is
Speaker 1: we make them look stupid, and then the whole United
Speaker 1: States is not at Florida, like, Yo, not only did
Speaker 1: you born and breathe these fucking kids that are psychotic,
Speaker 1: but you let them out of your sight throw into
Speaker 1: that certest bank there like eleven in the morning and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I literally just got my heart back
Speaker 1: in my resting heart, me to you know, fifty eight
Speaker 1: pieces a minute. And I was like, all right, let's
Speaker 1: rob a bank now. It was just like that's where
Speaker 1: the money is, that is where we're gonna go get it.
Speaker 1: Boom boom boom. As far as how we picked a bank,
Speaker 1: you know, in a in a Walmart parking lot. You
Speaker 1: know they had multiple exits and you know entrances and
Speaker 1: there was no cops in the parking lot. You know
Speaker 1: that the action is therey all the like strategical planning
Speaker 1: that went into it. We looked at one bank and
Speaker 1: there was there was a completly right across street. I
Speaker 1: was like, well, we're not gon rob nex one. Things
Speaker 1: are moving fast, and Ryan Docherty was starting to process
Speaker 1: the position he put his siblings in. My brother. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just driven by a loyalty towards family that you've
Speaker 1: never seen or experience before. You know, my brother, when
Speaker 1: they say that I would die for them, he literally
Speaker 1: means that, like he would shove me out of the
Speaker 1: way for a bullet. Like my brother would do anything
Speaker 1: for me. And then, uh, he wasn't made for this,
Speaker 1: like the Grace and I were. He never had a
Speaker 1: criminal record before. This was a really good person. And
Speaker 1: I really ruined my brother's life and never ruined my
Speaker 1: sister's life. And it's just hard to live with. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a double edged sword. You get away, but for
Speaker 1: how long I'll do crazy things? But like, my nerves
Speaker 1: aren't good. I mean, just because you're scared of something
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you don't do it. When you rob a bank,
Speaker 1: it's kind of impersonal. Right, I'm I'm robbing an entity.
Speaker 1: I'm not robbing you, right, I'm not robbing an individual
Speaker 1: having a running shoot out with the police. It's like
Speaker 1: eleven and then you know, robbing a bank it's probably
Speaker 1: like a night. And then riding a motorcycle on one
Speaker 1: tire a hundred forty hours, like I said it and
Speaker 1: a half, you know, how to kind of put it
Speaker 1: in the perspective. Yeah, so I was scared to go
Speaker 1: rob that bank, absolutely, But did I have a choice.
Speaker 1: Not that I could see more on that next time.
Speaker 1: The Dougherty Gang is executive produced by Stephanie lie Deecker
Speaker 1: and me Courtney Armstrong, along with Beth Greenwald, Seaun McEwen,
Speaker 1: and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound design is by Jeff Tis,
Speaker 1: mixing by Peter Neah. Additional producing by Chris Graves and
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane. The Docertor Gang is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from My
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.