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Speaker 1: Well, as you know, we are now full fledged experts

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Speaker 1: on Traders and Dancing with the Stars, but we can

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Speaker 1: still acknowledge that a little outside help will only strengthen

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Speaker 1: our ability to dissect and break down the intricacies of

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Speaker 1: these shows.

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Speaker 2: So it'll help help a little. We're kind of experts already.

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Speaker 1: And so for Traders, we've called in a fellow reality

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Speaker 1: TV expert, the co host of the Game of Roses

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Speaker 1: podcast and the author of How to Win the Bachelor, which,

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Speaker 1: to its credit, has resulted in a winner of The Bachelor.

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Speaker 1: You've also constantly seen him on your social media feeds

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Speaker 1: as host of The Necessary Conversation, a podcast where he

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Speaker 1: and his fellow liberal sister sit with their MAGA loving

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Speaker 1: parents to talk about the current political climate, a firecracker

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Speaker 1: show that has become an Internet sensation. But since his

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Speaker 1: own experiences in Hollywood as a writer give him a

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Speaker 1: little behind the scenes leg up on analyzing reality TV,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to dig deep into his feelings on this

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Speaker 1: season of The Traders, which we know includes some very

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Speaker 1: hot takes. So welcome to Pod meets Twirl Trading Places.

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Speaker 1: Unscripted TV expert Chad cult Gen, Hello, Hello, oh, don't

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Speaker 1: we interrupt in reading time.

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Speaker 2: I'm engrossed in this book. I would love it.

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Speaker 1: If it's your own book, please tell us that's your own.

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Speaker 1: Is that a Magic Magic card? Is that a Magic

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Speaker 1: the Gathering card?

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Speaker 2: This is yes? Yes, do you guys play?

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Speaker 1: Of course, yes, we play.

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Speaker 2: Allow me to move three feet to the left and

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Speaker 2: show you my collection of collectors.

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Speaker 1: Oh my, nice, nice, Yes.

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Speaker 2: I've been collecting Magic the Gathering Card is way too

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Speaker 2: goddamn long at this point, but yeah, I've almost got

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Speaker 2: a full beta set.

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Speaker 3: Ryder might be how to play Magic the Gathering in

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Speaker 3: the mid nineties in the unlimited of a hash bar

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Speaker 3: in Amsterdam. Yep, and we've been playing ever since.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And do you still have some of your those

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Speaker 1: were unlimited cards? Do you still have some of those?

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Speaker 1: Will you do?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: I still have my original deck. That's I still have

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Speaker 3: my original Shiven Dragon, my original Sarah Angel, all my

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Speaker 3: original instants and everything. Yeah, I've still got that's awesome,

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Speaker 3: little literal, original white, white and red deck. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is just a little bird token and I

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Speaker 2: use as a or at least in this book. It's

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Speaker 2: my book mark.

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Speaker 1: Nice.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I love it well.

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Speaker 3: We're instantly friends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in is the thing that?

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Speaker 3: And you're drinking and you're drinking a Trader Joe's purple

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Speaker 3: zesty drink.

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Speaker 2: I am this one is a black cherry, black cherry vanilla.

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Speaker 3: Oh please, I've a fridge full of them, my friend.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Well we're the same people now that we've got

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Speaker 2: that out of the way. Right.

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Speaker 1: So you've made a very interesting career out of this

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Speaker 1: sort of this reality TV. But you actually you started

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Speaker 1: as a writer, am I right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and still primarily that's how I make my living.

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Speaker 2: The reality TV thing has been like a bizarre side project.

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Speaker 1: Well have you ever thought about being on reality TV?

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Speaker 1: Has that ever been? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I applied for the Civilian Traders and hurt nothing back.

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Speaker 2: But my I think my application, like I chose a

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Speaker 2: direction and it was basically like I'm an expert at this,

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Speaker 2: and I've been kind of controlling the Bachelor franchise from

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Speaker 2: outside of it, unbeknownst to the producers by like sending

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Speaker 2: in players that I'm training secrets. Oh my god, And uh,

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Speaker 2: I think they didn't like that. I think they don't

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Speaker 2: want somebody who like kind of knows the game that

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Speaker 2: that cold do.

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Speaker 3: You have a bat I just see this weird Bachelor

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Speaker 3: training camp where they're like they're weighted roses, So it's

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Speaker 3: like you're working your arm out as you're trying to

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Speaker 3: Like it's like you're doing fifty of those of the

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Speaker 3: Rocky theme song playing in the background, like that kind

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Speaker 3: of thing.

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Speaker 2: I wish, No, it's it's much less interesting than that. Basically,

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Speaker 2: is just like helping people fill out their applications all,

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Speaker 2: you know, cut their application videos if they want me to.

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Speaker 2: And then once they get into the show, we have

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Speaker 2: about usually two or three weeks to just do a

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Speaker 2: crash course in like mathematically, what are you most likely

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Speaker 2: to encounter? How do you avoid a villainet it? What

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Speaker 2: do you do if you're get embroiled in a rivalry?

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Speaker 2: You know, what do you want out of this game?

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Speaker 2: Do you want a million Instagram followers? Do you actually

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Speaker 2: want to get married? Do you want both? Et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I again knowing nothing whatsoever about The Bachelor.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen it either.

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Speaker 3: Do most people go in wanting to get married? Or

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Speaker 3: are they going in full on just playing? They're playing

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Speaker 3: a game. That's all it is they're just playing it.

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Speaker 3: I would say that is the vast majority.

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Speaker 2: Even players that I've coached that are what we call

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent for tr R or for the right

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Speaker 2: reasons still understand the immense opportunity that platform offers to

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Speaker 2: make a million Instagram followers or at least a couple

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand. And then while you have some relevance, when

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Speaker 2: you've just come off of that whatever season you might

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Speaker 2: be in, you know you're going to get spawn con deals,

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Speaker 2: and if your numbers are high enough, that can certainly

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Speaker 2: be your job for the next year or two.

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Speaker 3: Wait, what what what deals?

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Speaker 2: Spawn con sponsored content? Sorry?

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Speaker 3: Right, conn deals? Geez.

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Speaker 1: So here's what I'm confused by, because, like, I definitely

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Speaker 1: think of like winning The Bachelor as getting married, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So when you're how how you do you get more

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Speaker 1: followers by being better on the Bachelor?

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Speaker 2: You mean by being better in what way? You do?

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Speaker 1: Know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I don't you're really about to get the dissertation? Now, Okay, please.

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Speaker 1: Please, because I don't. Yeah, because I'm I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming that you're strategizing that you're giving them is like

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Speaker 1: how to be good at the game that they're in.

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Speaker 1: But it's also how to just be a good reality

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Speaker 1: show personality.

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Speaker 2: Yes, some of that is accurate. I mean The Bachelor basically,

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Speaker 2: how to even put this? There is kind of a

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Speaker 2: broader meta game in all of reality television that I

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Speaker 2: am now playing like a video game across all different

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Speaker 2: reality shows. The Bachelor's where I started, and that is

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Speaker 2: like where I kind of learned some of the mechanics

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Speaker 2: and came up with various, uh, you know, game things

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Speaker 2: like pt personal tragedy card that how do you begin this?

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Speaker 3: How many mana do you have to tap to get

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Speaker 3: your personal tragedy cards? How many swamps? Because it's black

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you, it's definitely a black.

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Speaker 2: Spell A three cards?

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Speaker 3: How many swamps to play?

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Speaker 2: The PDC is I'll say it like this. I guess

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Speaker 2: I really think reality TV right now is about where

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Speaker 2: baseball was in the nineteen tens and nineteen teens, where

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Speaker 2: sports writers from all the major cities were looking at

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Speaker 2: baseball scrutinizing it statistically in a way that had never

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Speaker 2: been done. And it was sports writers who came up

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Speaker 2: with terms like RBI and e RA that got absorbed

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Speaker 2: into the game itself and changed how teams were made

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Speaker 2: and contracts and all that shit. I think reality TV

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Speaker 2: is kind of there now. Our podcast Game of Roses

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Speaker 2: is doing a little bit of this work. Other podcasts

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Speaker 2: are too, where we're identifying these repeating patterns in the

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Speaker 2: reality shows and seeing the game mechanics of them, taking

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Speaker 2: the statistics. My podcast hosts on Game of Roses, Lizzie

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Speaker 2: Pace and I wrote a book called How to Win

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Speaker 2: the Bachelor. It's kind of like the Moneyball of the Bachelor.

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Speaker 2: Multiple players have been caught reading it in the mansion Wow.

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Speaker 2: But the basic idea of the PTC Personal Tragedy Card

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Speaker 2: is at some point in any of these games, there

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Speaker 2: will come a time when you are going to be

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Speaker 2: I won't say forced, but you'll be strongly encouraged to

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Speaker 2: reveal the most traumatic incident that has ever occurred in

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Speaker 2: your life. And then, if you play it correctly, you

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Speaker 2: can use it to deflect an attack from arrival. You

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Speaker 2: can use it to deflect a for the wrong reasons

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Speaker 2: attack that may be coming from a lead someone like

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Speaker 2: the Bachelor or whatever. But basically use the PTC by

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Speaker 2: playing it, which garners you sympathy. If you can do

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Speaker 2: tier play on top of it, it makes it more

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Speaker 2: for the right reasons. Then you go through a series

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Speaker 2: of a short narrative that is, this happened to me,

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Speaker 2: Here's how it affected me, Here's what I've learned from it,

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Speaker 2: and here's why that makes me ready for whatever. The

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Speaker 2: premise of the show is you're on finding.

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Speaker 3: One, so it's doing The whole show is a role

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Speaker 3: playing game.

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Speaker 2: It's an RPG, yes, And I would say the ones

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Speaker 2: that are Bachelor is one that is extremely simple because

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Speaker 2: and this this is prior to what is happening right now.

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Speaker 2: Right now, Bachelor just had a big changing of the guard.

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Speaker 2: This guy, Scott Teddy, took over from Summerhouse. They were

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Speaker 2: that whole franchise was basically like swirling the toilet. They

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Speaker 2: brought him in too, kind of revamp it and in

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Speaker 2: a couple. In about a month, I guess a little

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Speaker 2: more than a month, we're gonna have our first bachelorette

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Speaker 2: under his new watch Taylor Frankie Paul, who is by

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Speaker 2: her own right, a giant social media celebrity. She's the

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Speaker 2: star of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. And they've never

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Speaker 2: cast anyone like this before. And I think that season

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Speaker 2: is gonna be fast.

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Speaker 3: How how can she be a Mormon wife and a bachelorette?

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Speaker 2: I mean, is mom gonna survive this? You guys don't

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Speaker 2: watch Secret Lives. Like the whole premise of Secret Lives

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Speaker 2: is it is this group of these Mormon moms who

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Speaker 2: started making tiktoks together. And what blew it up is

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Speaker 2: Taylor Frankie Paul, the de facto leader of mom talk.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe I know all this shit, and yet

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Speaker 2: I can't. She essentially outed them all as doing what

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Speaker 2: they call soft swinging, that all these wives and husbands

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Speaker 2: were not necessarily having sex, but they were like making

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Speaker 2: out with each other naked and showers and stuff, and

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Speaker 2: so that elevated all of them. They got millions of

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Speaker 2: TikTok followers off this. Then they got a show on

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Speaker 2: Hulu about them that's kind of a housewivesy in style.

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Speaker 3: We saw that because our friend was on Dancing with

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Speaker 3: the Stars with one of the Whitney with Whitney.

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Speaker 2: Who now is the star of a Broadway musical selling

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Speaker 2: out every night.

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Speaker 3: Right, but are But if she's a wife, how can

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Speaker 3: she be a bachelorette? Isn't she married?

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Speaker 2: You must have no she was, But yeah, now divorced.

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Speaker 2: She has a couple of different baby daddies, and she's

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Speaker 2: has a very checker path. Sure Ah, like they live

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Speaker 2: in Utah and they say they're Mormon wives, but it's like,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, none of you were going to church

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Speaker 2: or doing anything.

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Speaker 3: It's full.

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Speaker 1: I just feel as a brand listening to you talk,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm such like a nai you know,

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Speaker 1: I just don't like I just I'm still like you

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Speaker 1: go on reality shows to make friends and maybe exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I think most players are like that, and those

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Speaker 2: producers are counting on it. Producers for most of these

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Speaker 2: shows don't call the players players or the people people.

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Speaker 2: They call them subjects. I would say, in my kind

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Speaker 2: of tenure doing this weird side project, I have been

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Speaker 2: given access to various documents, will put it that way.

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Speaker 2: Some of them include very long discussions by producers as

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Speaker 2: they're producing a show, as they're doing like a season

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Speaker 2: of a show, and so you get to read in

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Speaker 2: these giant, like you know, thousand page group chats, how

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Speaker 2: producers actually think about the players, how they're manipulating them,

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Speaker 2: what they call them behind their back, all of that,

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Speaker 2: and you're just like, Okay, I get it. That's the

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Speaker 2: real game. So back to like what is this game? All?

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Speaker 2: Reality TV breaks down essentially into what we call the

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Speaker 2: four audiences, and if you are playing in a reality game,

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Speaker 2: you're playing to all four simultaneously. Audience one is the

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Speaker 2: lead or main character of your show. So if it's

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Speaker 2: a bachelor or bachelorette, it's the bachelor or a bachelorette.

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Speaker 2: If it's like a Housewives, it's the main housewife. That's

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Speaker 2: the person who's going to keep you in the show

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Speaker 2: or kick you out of the show. They kind of

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Speaker 2: control it. Audience two is the other players. So like

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Speaker 2: on Bachelor or Bachelorette, let's say we all three go

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Speaker 2: in as the dudes dating the bachelorette. We are each

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Speaker 2: other's second audience. You both have to play against them

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Speaker 2: and with them. Audience three, arguably the most important, is

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Speaker 2: the producers. They are the ones trying to cause you

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Speaker 2: to have a never break down on TV for good TV.

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Speaker 2: And then audience four is us at home watching you

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Speaker 2: play in No other sport is it like this, but

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Speaker 2: in reality TV it is. We decide how much money

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Speaker 2: you make by putting that number next to your head

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Speaker 2: on TikTok and Instagram.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I hate, I hate, I hate it.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw it

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Speaker 1: a fifth crowd or a fifth audience, because isn't there

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Speaker 1: the critic audience, like people like you that you're talking

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Speaker 1: this sort of like fifth state.

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Speaker 2: That effectively at this point, you know, it's not like

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Speaker 2: I think what I'm doing is like potentially unique in

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Speaker 2: terms of like infiltrating these games and controlling them from

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Speaker 2: to some degree. But I think for the most part,

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Speaker 2: with the advent of like podcasts that talk about reality

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Speaker 2: TV and all this stuff, uh, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: us now at this same kind of tier that isn't

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Speaker 2: like Nick Vile level. But we're also like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're able to monetize and stuff like that. I think

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of us that are affecting how these

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Speaker 2: shows are made, or at least the discourse around them.

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Speaker 2: Like producers can't get away with as much as they

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Speaker 2: used to be able to. Trader Season four is an

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Speaker 2: interesting example of that with the casting of Colton Underwood.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys are following.

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Speaker 3: That, Yeah, well yes, talk about it. Well before we do.

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Speaker 3: I just have one I have one question that is

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Speaker 3: going to make me sad in my soul and want

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Speaker 3: to weep for the world. But I'm curious, what percentage

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Speaker 3: would you say of reality body show contestants go on

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Speaker 3: just to get followers.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, yeah, I mean I think I would say

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Speaker 2: there are definitely a lot of players who are going

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Speaker 2: on only for that there are a smaller person And

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Speaker 2: it also depends on the game. Like there's a show

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Speaker 2: right now being a cast that Chris Harrison supposedly is

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Speaker 2: going to be hosting. It's basically like trad wives, like

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Speaker 2: a tradwife bachelor, Oh god, And there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people like outrage by and all this stuff. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to coach some players to go in and basically destroy

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Speaker 2: the show. Should be interesting, but that is something different,

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Speaker 2: Like I think you're going to get people applying for

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Speaker 2: that show who really are for the right reasons and

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Speaker 2: want to get married and their secondary goals like man

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Speaker 2: if I become an influencer, great, But generally speaking, especially

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Speaker 2: if you're looking at like a Love Island right or

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Speaker 2: even really Love is Blind, primarily players are going into

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Speaker 2: these giant platform shows where you have tens of millions

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Speaker 2: of viewers, high level social media engagement. They are going

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Speaker 2: into those shows to come out with millions of Instagram

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Speaker 2: followers and get like Leah kateb from season six USA

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Speaker 2: Love Island is getting deals with Google. You know. It's like,

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Speaker 2: this is not a small thing. This is It's like

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Speaker 2: being a pro athlete. It really is.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, is there eventually just going to be

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Speaker 3: a reality show where the winning prizes you win ten

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Speaker 3: million followers?

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Speaker 2: If I have my way with it, yes, I think

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Speaker 2: like the the idea of how these shows are presented still,

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Speaker 2: to me, is kind of archaic, and I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of reality producers come from that early two thousands

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Speaker 2: era where they're like, people who watch this show is

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Speaker 2: or stupid? Reality TV is trash TV, And it's like, no,

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Speaker 2: you have a reality TV show host as the president,

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Speaker 2: Like it influences our entire culture now in a way

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Speaker 2: no other media does. So Yeah, for me, I think

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Speaker 2: the presentation of social media numbers should be a part

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Speaker 2: of reality shows. When you see like an it well

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Speaker 2: they call it in Bachelor and IM in the moment

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Speaker 2: that's like the confessional footage where they're talking direct to camera.

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Speaker 2: I want to see on the bottom of the screen,

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Speaker 2: like a little NFL motion video of the person with

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Speaker 2: their Instagram and TikTok followers, pop numbers popping up. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's how I think it should be presented.

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Speaker 1: But wow, god, well, I mean, you know, it's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that we've talked about because we're going

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Speaker 1: through Traders right now season four, which I had never seen.

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Speaker 1: Will was convinced that he could win it. So that's

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Speaker 1: kind of the conceit of our podcast right now. And

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that we've talked about

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Speaker 1: is how ridiculous it is that they even offer money

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Speaker 1: because it doesn't seem like anybody cares. And we're like,

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Speaker 1: correct to your point exactly. We're like, it's like a

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Speaker 1: three thousand dollars and they're like, you need another seven thousand.

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Speaker 1: No one cares. None of these people want. They are

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Speaker 1: here for that money, which is exactly to your point.

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Speaker 3: They're there for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's been a thing that has come out as

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Speaker 2: a result of this season. Carolyn Wiger, who was on

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Speaker 2: season three, she was a Survivor player and really popped

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Speaker 2: off in season three. She came out and basically said,

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Speaker 2: like to Housewives two hundred and fifty thousand dollars is meaningless.

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Speaker 2: They're making millions of dollars per season, but to somebody

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Speaker 2: who came in like third place on Big Brother or something,

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Speaker 2: that's money that can get you through the next year

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Speaker 2: or two. So the disparity of kind of like how

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Speaker 2: much the money means to people is gigantic, and I

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Speaker 2: think the money will obviously mean more in the civilian version.

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Speaker 2: But like Traders has so many pieces of the game,

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Speaker 2: it's still a very young show, and none of these

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Speaker 2: shows solidify their formats in the first four seasons. Bachelor

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00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 2: notoriously took season four to twelve. That's like the experimental

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Speaker 2: era where they were creating group date roses, one to

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Speaker 2: one date roses, first impression rows. None of those game

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Speaker 2: mechanics were in the game until they were invented in

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Speaker 2: those seasons. So I think Traders is kind of going

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Speaker 2: through those growing pains right now. Eventually, I think the

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Speaker 2: challenges will have nothing to do with money. I think

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Speaker 2: it'll be like you're saying, a kind of overall million

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Speaker 2: dollar prize to the winning team. Traders are faithful, and

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Speaker 2: I think the challenges are going to have to start

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Speaker 2: skewing more towards survivor esque challenges exactly individual people going

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Speaker 2: against each other. The winner gets immunity of from some

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Speaker 2: kind of banishment.

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Speaker 3: Well, we also talked about the other thing we talked

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Speaker 3: about was the idea that one of the things you

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Speaker 3: win is a clue to find out who the trader is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, something that affects the game. And yeah, one

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Speaker 2: they have to start doing that.

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Speaker 3: Another conversation writer and I've had over and over and

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Speaker 3: over again, and we both go back and forth on it, frankly,

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Speaker 3: and I'm so curious what you think. Do you think

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Speaker 3: being a reality show contestant takes talent one percent?

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Speaker 2: Really? Oh my god? Yeah, After like coaching people through

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Speaker 2: the casting processes of all these different shows, I feel

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Speaker 2: like I'm as good as any casting producer at this

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Speaker 2: point and seeing almost immediately if a person can be

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Speaker 2: on reality TV or not, because they all of these

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Speaker 2: shows cast archetypes. You have to be the nerd, the professional,

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Speaker 2: the athlete, the weirdo, the whatever. Right you don't fit

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Speaker 2: one of those things, you are never getting on reality

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Speaker 2: television period. And there's a bunch of them now. Like

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Speaker 2: those those kind of archetypes have definitely evolved over the

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Speaker 2: past twenty years, but you have to fit one of them,

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Speaker 2: or potentially a couple of them, have elements of a

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Speaker 2: couple of them. And then even above that, the really

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00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 2: good reality players just have that thing it's like to

383
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 2: talk about, Yeah, yeah, it's like game sense. And when

384
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 2: I talk about game sense, it's really like how to

385
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,639
Speaker 2: interact with a camera, how to do things that will

386
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 2: guarantee a good edit, like affect your own edit while

387
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 2: you're in front of the camera. That is like a skill.

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Speaker 2: That is what Mark.

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Speaker 1: Dallas does not have, for instance, correct, Because yes, our

390
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 1: friend was you know, our friend Danielle was on Dancing

391
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Speaker 1: with the Stars with him and loved him and said

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Speaker 1: he's a great guy. He's so smart, he's so cool,

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Speaker 1: and we were like excited to see him on the season.

394
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Speaker 1: And he's just been the worst player ever and like

395
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Speaker 1: clearly cut out and it's like, oh, he doesn't have

396
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 1: that thing that you're talking about. He clearly doesn't have

397
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,199
Speaker 1: like the SoundBite factor or the confrontation factor or whatever

398
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,439
Speaker 1: it is that seems to get more of the screen

399
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 1: time and make you a successful player. Although he's lasted

400
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Speaker 1: a long time because he's the Patsy, But that's.

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Speaker 2: What it becomes like Traders. This is one of the

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Speaker 2: big problems with Trade. And by the way, as I'm

403
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Speaker 2: saying all of this, please understand, Traders is literally my

404
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 2: favorite show that's ever been made, across all genre, unscripted whatever.

405
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 2: Real love it. Yeah, but I think it has massive problems,

406
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,719
Speaker 2: massive areas for improvement. One of them is what is

407
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 2: this show? Is it an objective game that we are

408
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,120
Speaker 2: watching these players play or is it a an entertaining

409
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 2: reality show about wacky characters. They never know what it is.

410
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: And so when you see somebody like Mark ballas I've

411
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 2: watched a bunch of his tiktoks where he has like,

412
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,919
Speaker 2: here's all the notes I took when I was in

413
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 2: my hotel room and I was involved in this play,

414
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 2: in that play, and they never show it. That is

415
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 2: the I think detrimentally so the part of Traders that

416
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 2: is like, we're trying to make an entertaining reality show.

417
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 2: So somebody is playing the game too good, or they

418
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 2: express too much of an acumen for being able to

419
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 2: detect deceit or whatever, they get cut out of the show.

420
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 2: And that's just because the producers think they know what

421
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 2: makes a good show. The truth is the real version

422
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 2: of Traders. In my opinion, the best version of it

423
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 2: would be like a Big Brother type thing where the

424
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 2: players actually do live in that castle, not in a

425
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,199
Speaker 2: hotel at the airport, right, Yeah, and we get to

426
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 2: watch them twenty four hours a day on online, and

427
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 2: you cut an hour long show out of that every week,

428
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 2: just like they do in Big Brother. But for people

429
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Speaker 2: who really want to see how the game is being played,

430
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 2: it's all right there. And I don't know if they'd

431
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 2: ever do that because there's so much. Traders just has

432
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that's not real, like the clocks

433
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 2: on the challenges and stuff. You know, right, those are fake.

434
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 1: So it's like, wait, what do you mean the clocks

435
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:35,439
Speaker 1: and the challenges.

436
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 2: They give them like a time limit to do the challenges. Yeah,

437
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 2: that is not real. Wait so there's no time why

438
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 2: they always finish the challenge with like three seconds left?

439
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,880
Speaker 2: It's incredible. Yeah, we've I've interviewed some people in our

440
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 2: Game of Rosa show and that has been corroborated.

441
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 3: Chad, you're taken to taking all the mystique away. Ah,

442
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 3: I'm kidding, You're not at all the idea that the

443
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 3: reality is.

444
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: Real. None of them are, though, of course, just at

445
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 2: a very base level. You are looking at one hour

446
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 2: of edited content, and every shot in it, every music choice,

447
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 2: everything you're seeing and hearing is put in there for

448
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 2: a very specific reason, either to conceal the truth or

449
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 2: reveal the truth, or entertain you or make you afraid

450
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: or sad or whatever the case may be. But you're

451
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: never seeing everything, and so it can never actually be real.

452
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 3: Has there ever in the history of television been a

453
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 3: real reality show?

454
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 2: Big Brother, I think is the closest because those feeds

455
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 2: are available. You can literally watch all their camera feeds

456
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 2: in that house twenty four hours a day if you

457
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 2: want online. The program they present or the document they

458
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: present is obviously like a drastically edited down version to

459
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 2: fit network TV our time slot. But I would say

460
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 2: Big Brother is like, but I don't know. I mean,

461
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 2: you look at it like you are we going back

462
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: in history here. Reality TV technically started in nineteen forty five.

463
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 2: I believe with candid Camera you go up through the

464
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: seventies and you're looking at this American family on pe yep.

465
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 2: I mean that that was kind of a first of

466
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 2: its kind. Certainly, and it was doing very innovative things.

467
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: Was it real though? I don't know. Did the people

468
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: who edited that show have some kind of agenda? Were

469
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: they trying to make plan this loud look better or

470
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: the dad looked better or whatever? You know? Inevitably, Yeah,

471
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: I think there's always that question for me is always

472
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: like primary whenever I'm watching anything, why are they putting

473
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: this in the show? Yeah, because they can choose not

474
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 2: to put whatever you were looking at. They can choose

475
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 2: to not put that in the show just as easily

476
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 2: as they put it in.

477
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 3: So do you curiously do you watch any of the

478
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 3: twenty four hour footage of Big Brother? And if you do,

479
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 3: is any of it entertaining or is there a reason

480
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 3: it doesn't?

481
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 2: Mean you kind of make like cutdowns of it and

482
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 2: stuff on the website so that you don't have to.

483
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 2: And that's what the show is too. It's like here's

484
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: the best shit, here's who works the challenges and whatever.

485
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 2: It's like, who has time for that unless you're just

486
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: a massive super fan, Like at this point, everything I

487
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: watch is on two time speed minimum, just to take

488
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: as much as possible.

489
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: Wow, oh dude, Okay, we have to get back to

490
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: the Coulton thing because you threw.

491
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: That out there.

492
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: But before we do, yeah, yeah, this question occurred to me.

493
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: What would be your archetype if you were going for traders?

494
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: How would you get on the show?

495
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: What would your your well, Charisset, I applied and it

496
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 2: didn't work to be kind of like a game expert, right,

497
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I could go with like intellectual

498
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: power weirdo. I could do that.

499
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 3: I think that's just an ip W chat. You got

500
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 3: to use the you gotta use the acronym ip I,

501
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 3: like the actual power weirdo.

502
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: What would be like? Okay, so like what because like

503
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: I look at what Eric is going through right now,

504
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: as like the bad trader who's just such a horrible liar.

505
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: I feel like that would be me. So could I

506
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: apply with that sort of like character type where I

507
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: would just be like the innocent, nice guy who would

508
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: never lie to you.

509
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 2: You are like a tried and true faithful and they

510
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 2: need those players on the show, right. I think what

511
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 2: most people don't understand though, is like not everybody goes

512
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 2: into that show saying I want to be a trader

513
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: for sure, but faithful is actually a way harder game

514
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: to play statistically and in the mechanics.

515
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 3: Of it, you think, oh yeah, dude, really, but you

516
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 3: don't have to. You don't have to worry about what

517
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 3: you're saying. You don't have most of you are going

518
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 3: to get.

519
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: Banished double about what you're saying. Traders only have to

520
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: say to everyone, I'm a faithful that's they have one

521
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: lie to do, and that's it. Faithful have to identify

522
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: the traders. If you want to play the game in

523
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 2: a way that will win the game for you, you

524
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: have to identify the traders, then I and be certain

525
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: about that. That alone is an impossible task. You then

526
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: have to be able to get a group of faithful

527
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: together that you can trust and tell your ideas to

528
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: and hope that that doesn't isolate you from them and

529
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: they banish you. Also hope that a trader's not in

530
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: that group is like he's on to us and they

531
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: murder you. You have to lie to faithful sometimes about

532
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: not thinking this person's a trader or thinking they're okay.

533
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: You have to lie to traders sometimes. I mean it's

534
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 2: just the permutations mathematically of how you have to navigate

535
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: that ye are infinite. Traders are very like straight line.

536
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 2: It's basically like, don't fight with the other traders and

537
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: don't do anything weird and you'll win the game. That's

538
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: basically a trader strategy. And occasionally you have a trader

539
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: that's like Serie, you know in season one, who's just

540
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: like a fucking Da Vinci of playing these games. I

541
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: just have never seen anyone like her.

542
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: We haven't seen season one yet, so we literally started.

543
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 3: I started three and he started four. So no, it's

544
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: out there. I mean, by this point, season one is wild.

545
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 3: That Season one, to me is like they invited somebody

546
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: who is maybe one of the greatest game players in

547
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: reality television in the history of the genre, and said,

548
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 3: here's season one of a show that nobody.

549
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 2: Knows anything about. As she was just like, got it,

550
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: let me run the table. It was unreal. That season

551
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 2: is so good.

552
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: Wow, So you said, you can you see if people

553
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: have the kind of what it takes to be on

554
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 3: a reality television show. Rider, and I've been talking about

555
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 3: trying to get on either Traders or Amazing Race. Do

556
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 3: you see the possibility of us being able to do that?

557
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent. Traders for sure, the celebrity one

558
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: for sure, Okay, you should one hundred percent apply, and

559
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: I mean whatever, you shouldn't even apply. You should be

560
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: reaching out to whoever you know it NBC and you know,

561
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 2: getting on the show. There's no real application for the

562
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 2: celebrity one. But of course, and if you.

563
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: Do, let me know, well you've also yeah, well you've

564
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: also mentioned this a number of times. Now, I'm so curious.

565
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 3: What does an application for a reality show look like?

566
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: You should have to do a video, right.

567
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, for traders, like for the Civilian one, it's essentially

568
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: one question. It's like name, address, blah blah blah, job.

569
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: But then it's one question do you want to be

570
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: a trader or faithful and why? And then you have

571
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 2: to put a picture, full body length picture, headshot and

572
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: a little video and that's wow. So I mean, and

573
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 2: that's another and you put your social media handles and

574
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 2: stuff too. That's kind of like a very common thing

575
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: that I coach most people to do, is like go

576
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: through your Instagram and archive everything except what makes the

577
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 2: producers understand what you will look like in their show.

578
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 2: So if you're going into Bachelor, it's like, I want

579
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: to see some pictures of you in cocktail dresses. I

580
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: want to see some pictures of you in like athletic

581
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: wear because you'll invariably be on a group date that's

582
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 2: like a sporting event. Pictures of you in like a hoodie,

583
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: what you'll wear in the morning for those shots after

584
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: they wake up from night one. It's basically like, just

585
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: look at what is in the show, recreate it in

586
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: some pictures and make that all that's on your Instagram

587
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: when you apply for the show, because the producers will

588
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: look at your Instagram. Same thing for Traders. If you

589
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 2: want to be on Traders, you know, have a couple

590
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: of shots of you and the athletic stuff that you're

591
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: going to be wearing for the challenges. Have a couple

592
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: of shots and what you're going to wear to a

593
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: round table. Get some dark lighting, some mood lighting, a

594
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: couple of candles, glass over the top, breakfast gear.

595
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: Yeah samon So yeah, what happens if you're like me

596
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 3: and you have no social media? Will you ever be cast?

597
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: You have a podcast? That would be hard? Yeah, I

598
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: mean a podcast is social media, but I think for

599
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 2: the celebrity one, you do need some kind of a

600
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: public profile.

601
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: Okay, so interesting, because I have no Instagram, no Twitter,

602
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 3: or whatever the hell it's called now, I literally have

603
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 3: no public profile whatsoever.

604
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: I mean maybe they would, though, Look I don't know.

605
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 2: I think as a result of the Cult Underwood thing.

606
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: I think what you're gonna see in the next few

607
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: seasons of the Celebrity Traders, and this is bearing out

608
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: in the people that are getting calls right now for

609
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: the next season. In my opinion, I just think it's

610
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: going to be squeaky clean. There's not gonna be anybody

611
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 2: with a restraining order cast like Michael Rappaport. There's not

612
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: going to be anybody who stalked their co star on

613
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: another reality show like Culton Underwood. And so maybe having

614
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: no social media footprint at all is actually a good

615
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: thing in that regard, you know what I mean?

616
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: So how did they get cast if they have these backgrounds?

617
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: This is the question, and this is what I was

618
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: talking about this season of Traders, in my opinion, is

619
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: when it's like, oh, full corporate greed machine, It's like

620
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: every other reality show. Now, Bachelor has had so many

621
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: scandals like this, where like a picture will come out

622
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: of somebody in high school in blackface, it wins the

623
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: ring and then they don't even discuss it at the reunion,

624
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: and the show is basically saying it ain't on us,

625
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: we didn't know, and you're just like, how did you

626
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: not know? So in this case, it's even more egregious

627
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: because all that shit's all over the internet. FIRS casting

628
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: producers one hundred percent knew this, and we're just like, well, whatever,

629
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: some other people put him on reality show, so we

630
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: can too. But it's like, this stage is so big,

631
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: the scrutiny is way worse than it's ever been, and

632
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: it blew up in their face. They have issued no

633
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: statement about it, other than putting out an Instagram post

634
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: saying like these are people too, so don't believe them.

635
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: And it's like, but you cast this guy in your show?

636
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: What is going on? And I think they have heard

637
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: loud and clear the backlash. I just don't think they're

638
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: going to address it. And there's now news coming out

639
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: about the reunion that Colton supposedly storms off the set.

640
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: He is there all this wild shit. But then I'm

641
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: also looking at that and I'm like, okay, but is

642
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: that like a real storm off the set? Or is

643
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: that like a Housewives ninety day fiance? Every Reunion has

644
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: one person storm off the set that's scripted, you know,

645
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: I don't know.

646
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: Oh man, wow, all right, so what would you have

647
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: done differently producing this season of Traders?

648
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: No, Coulton. First of all, that that to me is

649
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: just like the biggest brightest one.

650
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: Is he I'm sorry? Is he?

651
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: Yeah? What can you tell us the whole kind of thing?

652
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: And also is he worse than Michael Rappaport, Because we've

653
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: heard a lot of really bad things about Michael Rappaport too,

654
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: So I mean it's like, I.

655
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: Think it's in my mind, they're both bad choices. For sure.

656
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: Rapaport had a restraining order in the nineties. In my opinion,

657
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: anytime you're making a group psychosocial dynamic game, that disqualifies

658
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: from being able to be in those games, right, I mean,

659
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: it's just like the liability of it is insane.

660
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: Right, right, learn boundaries? Right.

661
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. But he's got, like, you know whatever, millions Instagram

662
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: followers and ship and they're just kind of looking at

663
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: it like that. This season two was the first season

664
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: that they had six players that I called non reality celebrities.

665
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: That was the other than Housewives. They both had six players.

666
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: Those two groups and I find that kind of weird.

667
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: I would have liked them more to be reality celebrities.

668
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: But whatever, Wait, you're talking about who are who are

669
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: non reality celebrities like you You mean.

670
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: Like this season it was Eric Nam, it was rapaport Ron, functious.

671
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: Missing, and you think those those as a category, they

672
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: make worse.

673
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 3: No, Mark Ballace would count as a reality star. Mark

674
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 3: Balace's reality so is so is uh Kristen is reality.

675
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: Is definitely reality. I know there were three others.

676
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: I remember Stephen Coett, Stephen Colletti.

677
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 2: He'd be one in Kaletti. I put even Colletti in

678
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: the housewives group because he came from one of those

679
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: early reality kind of dating hills or whatever too right,

680
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: so I thought he would kind of have that play style.

681
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: But at any rate, Oh h, Taylor Swift's so.

682
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, her missus Taylor don Taylor Swift.

683
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 2: Donna Kelcey was one of them. And there were two

684
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: others that I now cannot remember for the life of me.

685
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: But and you think it just made for a boring,

686
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: a more boring season or less dynamical.

687
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: I mean, no, I don't mind it. I guess I

688
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: just like for me the Traders is really like the

689
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: mixed more sial arts of reality television where you get

690
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: to see like Housewives discipline versus survivor discipline versus And

691
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to see which of those games

692
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: trains players to do this weird thing together better, And

693
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: I think Bachelor does. Like Bachelor basically is just a

694
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: game of detecting deception. That's the whole thing. And so

695
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: I think when Bachelor players come in there, they're like

696
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, they just try to find love

697
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: on reality TV, and they way underestimate them. And it's like,

698
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: no pilot. Peter Weber has the things those producers put

699
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: him through, has hardened that mother, and he is going

700
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: to run this game. I just love that shit. But wow,

701
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: in Cult Underwood's case, so do you guys know the

702
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: story of what happened on his season?

703
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 3: I kind of vaguely know that at the end it

704
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 3: got very bad with him and whoever.

705
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: He picked, or yes, I can give you a in

706
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: my head, I'm like, I can give you a quick

707
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: breakdown of it, and I'm like, this is gonna take

708
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: twenty minutes. Okay, this is the basic breakdown of Colt Underwood.

709
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: He is a top three finisher on his season of

710
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: the Bachelorette. His bachelorette was this woman named Becca kuferin.

711
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sorry. So he wasn't the star. It wasn't

712
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: a bachelor he was after that.

713
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: How he got the job as the bachelor was it

714
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: was up to him and the guys who finished or

715
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 2: he was top four, sorry and the guys. Two other

716
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,479
Speaker 2: guys who finished in the top three with him were

717
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: both like super viable, came and it's to be the bachelor. Supposedly,

718
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: the story is per his own telling, he walked into

719
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: Mike Flis, the creator of the Bachelor's office, and said,

720
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: I know you're talking to these other two guys, but

721
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 2: I'll do anything you want. I'll give you the best

722
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: TV you can imagine, and they gave him the job.

723
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: Kind of the rumor is many of the prousers knew

724
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: that he was likely a closeted gay man and they

725
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: were hoping to induce a nervous breakdown on camera. Oh

726
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: god shit, which they did do. In his season, he

727
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: performed an act. This was also an executive priser Atlaw

728
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 2: on Gales last season. On that show, he was kind

729
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: of the mastermind of the whole franchise for a while.

730
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 2: He created Bachelor in Paradise. He got Colt Underwood basically

731
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: so flustered at one point that he runs into the

732
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: night and jumps over this fence, and that moment is

733
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: collectively known as the fence jump amongst all of us

734
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: in the fourth audience, and Chris Harrison is then sent

735
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: out into the night Colton Colton like yelling for him

736
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 2: and shit, and it was wild, right, So that season

737
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: ends he this ring winner named Cassie Randolph. It kind

738
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: of ends in like a muddy are we together? He

739
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: dumps two of his other candidates, so there's like no

740
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: final rose ceremony exactly. It was kind of like a

741
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: mess of an end of a season structurally. But after

742
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: they rotate out of the show, that relationship starts to

743
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: fall apart. He begins stalking her. He puts a tracking

744
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: device on her car, He creates a fake identity from

745
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: which online identity from which he is messaging Cassie Randolph,

746
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: her brother, I believe, and himself acting like he too

747
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 2: is getting stalked. Oh my god. So it's like diabolical, yes,

748
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: exactly exactly, and all that goes down and then the

749
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: news of that comes out, and he also relatively around

750
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: the same time, comes out and says I'm gay, and

751
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: that's he never like directly said that's why this is happening,

752
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: but it did seem to kind of like, let's forget

753
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: about this sweet that out of the carpet and this

754
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: is the new thing now. Netflix gives him a show

755
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 2: called Coming Out Coulton. It was a show literally all

756
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: about him coming out and going around West Hollywood and

757
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: dating and stuff. He gets married, I believe they've adopted

758
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: a child to him and his husband, and as all

759
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: that's going on, he's trying to rehab his reality TV career.

760
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: He gets on Masked Singer. He hosts co hosts the

761
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 2: show called Are You My First? With Caitlin, the.

762
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: Reality show he hasn't done the hell Yeah?

763
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: Did he start as like a football player, Like, yeah,

764
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: he made a practice team for the Seattle Seahawks and

765
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: was on that for like two or three months. It's

766
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: kind of like almost NFL players are. That's kind of

767
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: a a trope almost in Bachelor Nation. Wow. But yeah,

768
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 2: and then you know, for whatever reason, he he winds

769
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 2: up on traders. He clearly is like hungry for fame

770
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: and wants to be in reality TV. Yeah, and he's

771
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 2: just like, if you watch that show, are you my first?

772
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: He's a co host of it. It's I would encourage

773
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: you to watch it. I'll leave it at that. It's like,

774
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: it's so hard to watch. He's not good at that job.

775
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: But you know, I think this is probably gonna be

776
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: his last shot on reality TV for a long time.

777
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: And then you also have to ask yourself, like why

778
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: he doesn't bring enough to the table to warrant an

779
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: exception for this type of behavior. It's not like, you know,

780
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: some actors are remembered to be like just monsters on set,

781
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: but if they're in your movie, it opens to one

782
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars. So a studio is like, well, we

783
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: kind of don't care. He's in the movie. You know,

784
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: Culton underwould ain't that in reality TV? Right?

785
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: He's not bringing it?

786
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: So who who is playing a good game this season?

787
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: In your opinion? Rob rousch.

788
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: Amazing? Right?

789
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 2: Did you guys watch him on Love's Mind season?

790
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 3: No, we don't know any of these people, or yeah,

791
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 3: he was on season six?

792
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: Leg except okay, so how to explain it? Season six

793
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: of Love Island USA was transformative for the franchise. It

794
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: was the most watched season of that show of all

795
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: time by a giant magnitude for the US version or

796
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: for all of them, I believe for all of them.

797
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: Definitely for the US version. Prior to that, the US

798
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: version had kind of floundered, but they got a new

799
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: host in Ariono Maddox, who comes from vander Pump Rules.

800
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: She's like a super fan of the show, fantastic at

801
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: that job. She's almost like an Alan Cumming type like

802
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: character at times in the show. It's really fascinating. But

803
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: the talent they had on that season, including Rob Rausch,

804
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: was just like elevated to a level you'd never really seen.

805
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: And Rob Rausch turned in that show also was like

806
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: big Brother. They live in this compound.

807
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: I've seen that one. I've seen, but not the US version.

808
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 3: We watch UK and Australia, and by episode sixty two

809
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: it's like I can't do this anymore. Like there's so

810
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 3: many episodes.

811
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: I love it. To me, it's like the baseball or

812
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: basketball season where you got games every night. I love

813
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 2: so much to watch. Yeah, it's fantastic though, but rober

814
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: Aush turned in this performance. That was like, what is

815
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: going on here? Is he doing performance art? What the

816
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: is this? He did a thing where he was sitting

817
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 2: in a day bed talking to this woman about invariably,

818
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: on that show, the conversations will get as deep as

819
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: like what's your favorite type of candy? Right? He was

820
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: having a conversation like that, and just a fucking spider

821
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 2: is like crawling across his face and he's not even

822
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 2: He's like, I don't even know it's there. I was like,

823
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: what's going on? What is that guy doing? And I

824
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: was just mesmerized by him, his weird outfit choices, his

825
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: turns of phrases, and when he got on Traders, I

826
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: was like, I can't wait to see this. This is

827
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: gonna be very weird. And it turns out he's the

828
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: greatest player of all time.

829
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 3: He's we're talking about he's so smart. And the second

830
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 3: I saw him sit down and play chess and I

831
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 3: was watching his hands move, I was like, oh, he

832
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: knows what he's doing, like he actually he's thinking several

833
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 3: moves ahead. Yeah, And then it turns out he's the

834
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 3: secret genius. This guy, yes unbelievable.

835
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: And then you watch his tiktoks and he's like stomping

836
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: around the swamps of floor or to picking up snakes

837
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 2: that are like biting him in the face and ship

838
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, that one got me in the

839
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: lip anyway, this is my favorite snake. And you're like,

840
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: how is this the same guy? He's like gaming one

841
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: of the most reality shows ever. So it's Steve.

842
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 3: It's Steve Irwin meets you know, a James Bond villain

843
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 3: kind of all wrapped.

844
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: In together, meets like a Tyler Cameron. He gives off

845
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: like kind of a a standard hymbo kind of but

846
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: like he's not that.

847
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: No, no, no, Well do you think he would be

848
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: as good if you were a faithful It's hard to

849
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: say because faithfuls aren't, like they're just not given the

850
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: opportunity to play in the same way.

851
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: Like if you look at in was it the most

852
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: recent episode with the Jack in the Boxes? Yeah, yeah,

853
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 2: where he makes those two choices where Eric crawls out

854
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 2: of the boxes like shit, what do we do exactly

855
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 2: put down Tera Lipinski's name every time on the time

856
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: we don't put ourselves on the short list. Both of

857
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: those choices are like statistically exactly correct on our Patreon.

858
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: We watched the show and I always anytime somebody has

859
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 2: to make a choice, and I say, like, here's exactly

860
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: what you do. And he did both of the things

861
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: exactly as I said. And I was like, Oh, this

862
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 2: guy's going to dominate the game. Yes, but like Faithful

863
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 2: don't get those those same kind of choices to affect

864
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: the game. They're kind of just there floating around. And

865
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 2: this is like kind of I think the flaw in

866
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: the game, the real game of a Faithful if you

867
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 2: are actually trying to win, like the game of Traders,

868
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 2: is not eliminating traders. You actually don't ever want to

869
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: do that until the very final phase. You want to

870
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: identify them, keep them there, and essentially hamstring them like

871
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: Lisa Renna this season. Wow, there was a moment where

872
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: basically everybody knew she was a trader, right and they

873
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: vote her out. Yeah, that's wrong. You want her there

874
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: tell the end, so you can take her to the

875
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 2: final fire pit and be like, Okay, you're a trader

876
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: by Faithful win. You know, you don't ever want to

877
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: get traders out until the final round.

878
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: That makes so much sense, That's what That's what I didn'

879
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: understand cause I didn't know the rules of the game. Was like, wait,

880
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: they can't ever vote all the traders out because they're

881
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: just going to keep recruiting, so you actually you just

882
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: inevitably because what's weird is to me is like so

883
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: often they seem to just vote up people they don't

884
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: like or they don't get along with. But actually that

885
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: based on like that actually makes sense kind of in

886
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: a way, based on what you're saying, Like you just

887
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: get rid of the faithful you don't trust and don't

888
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: like or don't want to be around, and stick with

889
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: the faithfuls.

890
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting in terms of game theory. This

891
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 2: is how I would play it if I could. But

892
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 2: I think even saying these things like in the context

893
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: of being in the show would probably get you eliminated

894
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: from one side or the other. Right, But basically, what

895
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: you want to set up, in my opinion, is a

896
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: system that completely neuters trader's ability to do anything if

897
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: you're a faithful That would include two things in my opinion,

898
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 2: which would be like on day one, before anyone is

899
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: selected as a trader, and you have what is called

900
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 2: reality where they let the players go into the castle

901
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: and meander around talk to each other. I would get

902
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: everybody together and I would say, look, here's the deal.

903
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 2: Right now, we're all faithful, So these are two things

904
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: I want institute as a faithful that we can all

905
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: agree on as Faithful's one, we're gonna have a buddy

906
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: system right now. Randomly, we're gonna select pairs of two

907
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: that buddy can never be let out of your site. Statistically,

908
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: it's almost impossible that two traders will be picked from

909
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: two people who are randomly buddied, So that will make

910
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: it impossible for them to go sneak off and get

911
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: the tarot cards or have conversations or whatever. So we

912
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 2: all agree to this or not.

913
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: I said this exact same thing because there was one

914
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: episode where someone asked somebody to talk along Candice like

915
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: kick somebody out, and I was like, why would you

916
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: ever walk away from that person? Just say nope, I

917
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: am never leaving your side. Yeah, because you never leave

918
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: anybody alone if you.

919
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 3: Can help it.

920
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that makes so much sense.

921
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 2: I think that's a way to kind of, like, you know,

922
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: invalidate a lot of what traders are trying to do.

923
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 2: There's also a murdering plane sight, you know roughly. Now,

924
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: I don't know what the statistics would bear out, but

925
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: either in round three or four, you're gonna have a

926
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: murder and plane site. If you suspect that's happening, you

927
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: could institute and again this would have to be laid

928
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: out on day one, like teach everybody basically, but you

929
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 2: can institute what I would call statute protocol. Everyone just

930
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: sits in a chair, completely silent and still looking forward,

931
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: not moving. I said, good luck with your murder and

932
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: playing sight. Terrible reality television. The producers will hate you,

933
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: but it breaks that element of the game. It completely

934
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: invalidates it. And there's a lot of stuff in Traders

935
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: like that that I think you could do as a faithful.

936
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: Wow, they want you on this show, Like that's you know.

937
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: I come up with these strategies because like the game

938
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 2: needs to be honed still and there are these gaping

939
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: holes in it that could be exploited in any way

940
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: you want, really, and one of them is that it's

941
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 2: the Traders thing. It's like they don't Sandra was just

942
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: on a podcast talking to Carolyn Wiger. Sandra from season two.

943
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: She's a big survivor champion. She won two Survivor seasons

944
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: back to back, which I think still has never been

945
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: done again. She basically was saying, like, the producers don't

946
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: like what they call trade or angel strategy, which is

947
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: a faithful kind of teams up with a trader and

948
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: they both agree, we're going to take each other to

949
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: the end game. Because the real game being played is

950
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 2: how long can you last in the show? How much

951
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: screen time can you get? Can you get famous enough

952
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: or be remembered enough from the season to be invited

953
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: back to another season or an All star season or

954
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: another reality show or whatever, And so that's really what

955
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: you're doing. You want to basically be aligned. If you're

956
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 2: a faithful, you want to be aligned with the trader.

957
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: If you're a trader, you want to be aligned with

958
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 2: a faithful. And that's the game they've designed. They don't

959
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: want that to be the game they've designed, but that

960
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: is what it is.

961
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: So that moment with Colton and Lisa Rena was actually

962
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: the moment that could have broken the game if they

963
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: had because because couldn't I know, you hate him, but

964
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: couldn't he have said he did? He kind of did

965
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: the right thing by saying like, I know you're a trader.

966
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: If she had said to him, okay, I'm with you,

967
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: they could have run the game from that point on.

968
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: Right Unfortunately, like they both both were bad players, right, No,

969
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 2: we also have to kind of be good at what

970
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 2: the game is, you know, to be that my kind

971
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: of like dream in terms of coaching people to go

972
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: in this game, which I'm trying to put together currently.

973
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: I'm curious if I'll be able to do it or not,

974
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 2: But basically I want to send in a team of

975
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: multiple people, at least five, who all know they're going

976
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 2: into the game, and they have kind of a pre

977
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 2: made agreement that says probably one of us statistically will

978
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: be a trader. If that's the case, the first breakfast

979
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: after the traders are selected, one of us will say

980
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: this code word, pass the bagel whatever. And if we

981
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: say that, it means we're the trader. And we all

982
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: agree now that whoever that is, we support them as faithfuls,

983
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 2: and that trader will protect us in the turret and

984
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 2: we will run the table of this game. There is

985
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 2: no way that could be stopped. But then who wins

986
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 2: at the end, whoever? I mean, that's what we have

987
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: to determine, like what is win? You know, to me,

988
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: win is make it to the firepit, basically that you've

989
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 2: been in the show the whole time.

990
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 3: Well you also win the pot of sixty three.

991
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

992
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

993
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: Season three, I think there were four winners, right, And

994
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: I remember Gabby Wendy make him post like where's my

995
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars? Yeah, she makes that in an afternoon

996
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: with the Instagram reel, you know.

997
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, So who do you think is gonna win?

998
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 3: What do you think is gonna happen? What's the end

999
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 3: of Traders is?

1000
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: I don't know there's a I mean, unfortunately, I feel

1001
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 2: like it's very hard to say because you're only given

1002
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: the edit. And I do think they're they're good at

1003
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: that like kind of misdirecting you. I want to say

1004
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: Rob Roush wins. But there's just a part of me

1005
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: that's like, come on, Candice voted for him twice. Nobody

1006
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: saw that. Nobody thinks that means anything. I think people

1007
00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 2: know he's a Trader, and I think he's gonna make

1008
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: it to the finals. Faithfuls might kick him out and

1009
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: that'll be that. Maybe Eric wins. I can see that.

1010
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I kind of would love it

1011
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: if Eric won, just because I see myself in him

1012
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: so much. I'm just like, I would be such that guy,

1013
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: and I just kind of rooted for him, like the

1014
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: fact that he like reluctant Trader. He's like, we have

1015
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: to kill someone tonight. Oh geez, that would be so

1016
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: I can't do that.

1017
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 3: So then do you see Rob however he finishes this show,

1018
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 3: Do you see him as the next Bachelor or on

1019
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 3: Dancing with the Stars or I mean, is this kind

1020
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 3: of like, is he the next big thing in reality?

1021
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: I mean what they're doing in the Bachelor franchise right now,

1022
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: they they skipped a Bachelor iteration. So the cycle of

1023
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: that show is generally January is a Bachelor, March is

1024
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: a Bachelorette. Sometime in the summer's Bachelor in Paradise, and

1025
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 2: then after that is a Golden Bachelor iteration, either Golden

1026
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 2: Bachelor or Bachelorette. That's the cycle of that year long show.

1027
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 2: They skip the Bachelor this year, there is no cycle,

1028
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: so the whole thing is now broken because the narrative

1029
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: you're watching is generally speaking, a player on Bachelor gets

1030
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 2: into the top three, gets her heartbroken becomes the Bachelorette,

1031
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: and then all of the players from those two seasons

1032
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: are now in Bachelor in Paradise, and then the Golden

1033
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: Bachelor's kind of its own end of the year cycle

1034
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 2: with its own player pool, although those players are now

1035
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: being put on Paradise two without that kind of like

1036
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: that break in the narrative cycle is definitely like a reset.

1037
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 2: There's no everybody in this next season with Taylor, Frankie

1038
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: Paul will be completely new. We've never seen them in

1039
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 2: the franchise before. She obviously is completely new and is

1040
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: a giant reality star in her own right, So I

1041
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 2: think it's going to kind of revitalize the franchise. If

1042
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: they stick with that idea of casting a super famous

1043
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: person as the lead or a reality star as the lead,

1044
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 2: and they cast Rob Rousch as the Bachelor next January,

1045
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: that will be the biggest dating show ever made. Really. Yeah,

1046
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: she's gigantic, especially in like the dating world, and I

1047
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 2: do believe he is single. But there are like some

1048
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 2: other shows that are starting to kind of nip at

1049
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: the heels of even the format of The Bachelor. Alex Cooper,

1050
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 2: who hosts Call Her Daddy, that I don't know if

1051
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 2: you guys know that podcast, I know the podcast, or

1052
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 2: she's producing reality shows now she's doing one for Netflix

1053
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: called Who Wants to Marry Harry? I think not the

1054
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: English Royal, but Harry Jowsey, the most successful male reality

1055
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: player of all time. What's he from? From what he

1056
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 2: was on Too Hot to Handle? He was on Perfect Match?

1057
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: He's big Netflix Reality Universe.

1058
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 3: What's the same, Harold?

1059
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 2: What? Harry Jowsey? Harry? He has a big podcast, and

1060
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 2: he has been very explicit about the fact that he

1061
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 2: created characters and applied to all these shows as different

1062
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: characters multiple times.

1063
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 3: They all look the same. All these people look the same.

1064
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: There's a look that's part of it. You know.

1065
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: It's pro reality athletes.

1066
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 2: I love it.

1067
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 3: Okay, so somebody come see you tomorrow and they say,

1068
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 3: all right, Chad, here's one hundred million dollars, go create

1069
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 3: the next big reality show.

1070
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you make? I'm probably going a dat

1071
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 2: house shit. I have multiple of these ideas in mind,

1072
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: but with one hundred million dollars, I don't think a

1073
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 2: hundred Well, maybe it would be. This is the show

1074
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 2: I really want to make. It's a perpetual dating show

1075
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: called the Dating Pool. They are all the players, twenty

1076
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 2: of the hottest guys and girls. I would make them

1077
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: all bisexual as well, so that any mathematical combination of

1078
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: romance can happen. Of course, they essentially live in a

1079
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 2: poolhouse that is fantastic and nice, and they have a butler.

1080
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: There are no bad conditions here. Once you come into

1081
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 2: the show, you are locked into the show for the

1082
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: rest of your life, barring two ways out. One you

1083
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 2: get voted out of the show by the audience, and

1084
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 2: that vote takes place once every week, and then a

1085
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: new person replaces you. Or two you get engaged to

1086
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,879
Speaker 2: someone on the show and you leave in love. Those

1087
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: are the only ways out of the show. This is

1088
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: a show that shoots over the course of a week

1089
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 2: and airs every Friday forever, fifty two weeks a year.

1090
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 2: That's the show I'd want to make.

1091
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: That's pretty great. It's sort of like Running Man, except

1092
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: there's no death. There's just yeah exactly.

1093
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: It's basically like I mean, reality TV shows are basically

1094
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 2: the modern day soap opera. If you look at like

1095
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: Love Island has like an app for all the fans

1096
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 2: that you get to vote on people Who's your Favorite couple?

1097
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 2: Is kind of shit. That app in season seven, which

1098
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: aired last summer, crashed like ten times because so many

1099
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 2: people were like locked into the show. And to me,

1100
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: everybody I've ever pitched this idea too, they're like, oh,

1101
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 2: you can't do that, that production is too crazy. I'm like,

1102
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 2: Love Island has a show every day.

1103
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, right all over the world, every day that nine

1104
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 3: versions of it, Yeah, all over the world.

1105
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's like the production model exists to do

1106
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: something like this. I think it's just a matter of

1107
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 2: like there's still a lot of old guard producers in

1108
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: reality TV who came from those early two thousands that like,

1109
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: see it exactly. They can't have their cell phones and no, no, no, no,

1110
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 2: that's another thing. I'm like, why let them have their

1111
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 2: cell phones and make social media and interact with people

1112
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 2: while they're shooting the show? Right? You don't think that's

1113
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: the level of engagement that would produce would never be

1114
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 2: topped in my opinion.

1115
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, Chad can't thank you enough for so much information.

1116
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: So we need to come back.

1117
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: Can you please come back?

1118
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: Come back? We're doing Survivor.

1119
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: I have no idea how cool it is for me

1120
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: Boy meets World occupies a very specific space in my life. Oh,

1121
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: absolute pleasure you are.

1122
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 1: I mean, you are a Machiavellian genius. This is it's

1123
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: really it's really wonderful and like, yeah, I need this

1124
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 1: in my life because I am still, like I said,

1125
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: such a naive reality.

1126
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 3: We're neophytes.

1127
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're neophytes, and I feel like a rube. And

1128
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: that's really nice to have, like your your education. So

1129
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: when we Survivor next, and we would love to have Yeah,

1130
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna do season fifty, so we'd love to have

1131
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: you back and discussing Survivor, we'll never seen it or

1132
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: he watched one season years ago, and every other.

1133
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 3: Season with Naked Guy was the only one I saw

1134
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 3: years of Survivor's.

1135
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: The only reality show I watched, so it's the only

1136
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: one I actually know a little bit. So yeah, we're

1137
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: gonna be starting. We're gonna start that next week, So

1138
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,359
Speaker 1: in a couple in a couple of weeks, we'd love

1139
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: to have you back.

1140
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 3: And you are officially now the rt Y since you

1141
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 3: love acronyms, you're the rt Y.

1142
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 2: What's the arty?

1143
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 3: That's reality television, Yoda, thank you very much. That is

1144
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 3: official artie.

1145
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: Why you are?

1146
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: Yes, you watch? That's any fantasy books behind you on

1147
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 3: the shelf?

1148
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 2: What do you think?

1149
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 3: I saw Dune? But I'm trying to see what you

1150
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 3: what you read?

1151
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: Uh?

1152
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 2: Where should I be good? Right now? I'm reading a

1153
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 2: bunch of weird shit about human consciousness. But yes, there's

1154
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 2: a dragon writers a pern that.

1155
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: Yes, that's cool.

1156
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 3: Wheel of time and somewhere up here you Robert Jordan fan.

1157
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 2: I mean it in the middle.

1158
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 3: It meandered in the middle.

1159
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: I was, Yeah, exactly, I was. I was a Robert

1160
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 2: Jordan fan when I was in high school.

1161
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know why meandered those because originally he sold

1162
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 3: it his six books and it was doing so well

1163
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 3: the publishers came to him said double it.

1164
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you guys watched the Real Time show? Halfway through?

1165
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't do

1166
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: it anymore. Hurt it hurt my soul. My My biggest

1167
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 2: pet peeve in these fantasy series is when like everybody's

1168
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 2: dressed in something that just came off the rack.

1169
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that whole show is that.

1170
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, what the is this?

1171
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: I just love how they go into the ways and

1172
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: it's nice and bright. I'm like, yeah, exactly if there's

1173
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 3: a darkness, So what are you doing?

1174
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just it was misguided, that's all right.

1175
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 3: It seemed I can already tell we're all going to

1176
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 3: be friends, so we're good.

1177
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1178
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: The second we saw a magic card, we were like, oh.

1179
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 2: But you have no idea. I just went out to

1180
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: dinner the other night with an old friend that I

1181
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: hadn't seen a couple of years, and somehow, immediately in

1182
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: the first five minutes, the conversation went to magic the gathering,

1183
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: and We're like, oh, yeah, no, I'm one hundred obsessed again. Yeah,

1184
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: there you go.

1185
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: Love it. It's such a time stuckage though. There's so

1186
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: many times where I'm just like I can't. I'll be

1187
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: building decks for like three days and then I'm like.

1188
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 2: What am I doing?

1189
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 3: What is all this?

1190
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? I know it's so fun though, so much. All right, Well, Chad, yes,

1191
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: we'll definitely have you back. And then yeah, Chad, are

1192
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: you are you in l A?

1193
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh are you guys in A?

1194
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we could we could conceivably have a magic night. Yes,

1195
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 1: I'll get together.

1196
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 3: Yeah done, all right, good, all right, thank you so much.

1197
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, all right, bye bye.

1198
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: I love that we keep discovering in this reality expert world.

1199
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: You know what, it is so cool.

1200
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 3: We always talk about microworlds yea. And first of all,

1201
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 3: the idea of looking at reality TV as sports, yeah,

1202
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 3: is so interesting.

1203
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: Or it's even more than that. It's more like game theory.

1204
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: Like it's some more like.

1205
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 3: You said, running Man, which is kind of true.

1206
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 1: It's like some kind of weird strategy. God, it's so

1207
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: it's it's really the way to look at it. It's

1208
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: really the smartest way to look at it. I just

1209
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: am so like, I'm just yeah, I'm not cynical. I

1210
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,760
Speaker 1: still like kind of want to believe that, like people

1211
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 1: are good and they're not pretending.

1212
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 3: You're going to find love there. That's right, good for you,

1213
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 3: you found love. No, it's it's not such a world

1214
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 3: that when you look at it different, I mean again,

1215
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 3: he looks at it from the side and it's a

1216
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 3: whole different shape. So yeah, it's oh, it's so interesting

1217
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 3: to hear all this stuff.

1218
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: Well, that's gonna do it for this episode of Pod

1219
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: Meets Twirled. Join us next time as we continue our

1220
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: journey through season four of Traders, a show in which,

1221
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: as Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fat as foul

1222
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: And foul is fair