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Speaker 1: Body Dogs with Joseph s gotten more. The boulder the lie.

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Speaker 1: I do believe, and this is an old principle, the

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Speaker 1: boulder the lie. I think that there is a higher

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Speaker 1: probability people will believe you if you're willing to really

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Speaker 1: stick your neck out and tell a whopper of a lie,

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Speaker 1: or try to deceive people on a grand scale, like

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Speaker 1: you've got some kind of miracle potion that will change

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Speaker 1: their life, they'll believe you. You tell little FIBs and

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Speaker 1: little white lies, you'll get caught. But it seems like

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Speaker 1: people that go for the grand slam, they succeed for

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Speaker 1: a while. In the case that we're going to be

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Speaker 1: or cases that we'll be discussing today, it's cold case

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Speaker 1: both of them, and it all centers around deception. It

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Speaker 1: centers around the deception of one individual who had a

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Speaker 1: real hunger apparently for sexual deviance, and he coupled that

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Speaker 1: with having people think he was a cop. Today, we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the now Soft Lovers Lane murders

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Speaker 1: in Houston, Texas from nineteen ninety I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: and this is Bodybags. So I get a call Dave.

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Speaker 1: I thought I'll repeat this on the air, so you

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Speaker 1: can hear me say it twice. Not that you need

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Speaker 1: me to, but Dave, I gotta I was contacted by

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Speaker 1: David Middleman from and he said, please, can you and

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Speaker 1: Dave please cover this case. I was like, yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'll cover just about any kind

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Speaker 1: of case that you have because I love people. Want

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Speaker 1: to know why, you know, I'm always, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of pushing authorm cases. I guess some people would say shilling,

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Speaker 1: but I don't get a dime out of it. Is

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Speaker 1: the reason is that we have scientific commonality. I think

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Speaker 1: that both myself and the Middleman's and Dave as well,

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Speaker 1: we all we want is the truth. You know, We're

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Speaker 1: not We're not here seeking justice or anything like that

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Speaker 1: to somebody else's department. We're looking for scientific truth here

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Speaker 1: and so that commonality. And when he approached me about this, David,

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Speaker 1: I was more than happy to take this on because

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Speaker 1: I got to be honest with you, brother, Dave. I

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Speaker 1: didn't really know how kind of melded into the conscience

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Speaker 1: of the folks of Houston this case or cases were.

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Speaker 1: Apparently this is something that had been on the radar

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Speaker 1: for a long long time. I think that it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a dark cloud as well. It should be.

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Speaker 1: It's horrible case cases and.

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Speaker 2: Think about it, an unsolved Lover's Lane murder of two

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Speaker 2: young people that are you know, twenty one and twenty

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Speaker 2: two years old. Yeah, and yeah, that's going to stick

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Speaker 2: in your cross for many a year, which it did.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the solving of this case is really intricate.

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Speaker 2: We're going to end up doing more than one episode

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Speaker 2: on this. I'm glad the Middleman's reached out to you

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Speaker 2: on this because we've tried to do a number of

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Speaker 2: cases just because so many of you that listen to

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Speaker 2: true crime you want to be involved. You're not just

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Speaker 2: viewing from the outside. A lot of you want to

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Speaker 2: be involved. Just don't know how. You know, what do

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Speaker 2: I do? What is that step? Well, here it is.

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Speaker 2: You know we've many times have told you how an

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Speaker 2: authorm case gets built and how many times they just

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Speaker 2: need enough money to get it started. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: a seventy five hundred dollars feet We're not talking about

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Speaker 2: a lot of money here. If you're getting in front

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Speaker 2: a bunch of different people, yeah, yeah, and so if

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Speaker 2: you've got twenty bucks and you want to participate. Maybe

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Speaker 2: there's a crime in your area that is unsolved and

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Speaker 2: you've followed, and you're like, get some of your friends

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Speaker 2: collect that way and maybe you can get something going.

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Speaker 2: But with this one, you've got a case out of

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. One of the most powerful parts of this

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Speaker 2: story is how how the loved ones talked about this

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Speaker 2: young couple. You're talking about Cheryl Henry. She's twenty two,

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Speaker 2: Andy Atkins. His first name is Garland, but he doesn't

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Speaker 2: go by that. He goes by Andy. Andy Atkinson is

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Speaker 2: twenty one. They are beautiful young people who are they're

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Speaker 2: in the infatuation stage of dating where oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: you know it's yeah, you could. You could be at

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Speaker 2: the campfire in blazing saddles eating beans with this person

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Speaker 2: and smile. Okay, that's how infatuated they are with one another.

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Speaker 2: They meet up at a hot spot in West Houston,

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Speaker 2: and my first thought was the name of the place

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Speaker 2: that they went to. I'm like, boy, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: one of Joe's old haunts. I you Mama's by you

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Speaker 2: Mama's night club in West Houston to go out there,

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Speaker 2: and later that night the young couple, well, they go

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Speaker 2: to a remote area, beautiful area out by attics reservoir,

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Speaker 2: and that's that's all that. That's where this story ends

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Speaker 2: and begins at the same time, because we don't know

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Speaker 2: what happened after they got there, but we know that

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Speaker 2: when neither one made it back home, when neither one

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Speaker 2: showed up for work the next day, when in particular,

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Speaker 2: was Cheryl Henry's family when she didn't come home, they

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Speaker 2: were this is not Cheryl. She doesn't do this. So

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Speaker 2: they're on the phone with cops. Joe. It wasn't till

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Speaker 2: five o'clock the next afternoon a security officer, I'm patrol

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Speaker 2: in that area, noticed that a car had been parked

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Speaker 2: in the cul de sac with nothing else. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you've got a remote area, but there's paved roads and stuff,

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Speaker 2: but there's not a lot of buildings. And this car

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Speaker 2: has been sitting out there all day. It's five ten

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Speaker 2: in the afternoon, and he finds, oh, gay, I got

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Speaker 2: to find out what's going on. Yeah, And as he approaches,

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Speaker 2: he sees there's a woman in the car, calls out

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Speaker 2: to her. She doesn't respond. He knows there's more to

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Speaker 2: this story immediately and calls police and the Carlton nine

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Speaker 2: one one was unresponsive female. That was what they arrived

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Speaker 2: on the scene for. But Jessin Scott Morgan what the

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Speaker 2: law enforcement individuals found. And I'm really curious for you

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Speaker 2: to be able to break this down for us, because

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Speaker 2: I don't know what happens when you come to a

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Speaker 2: scene like this where you have something out of the

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Speaker 2: worst horror movie you can ever imagine playing out in

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Speaker 2: real life. Do the police call you right away and say, hey, man,

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Speaker 2: we got a problem and we need you here now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Is that it?

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Speaker 2: Because you've always told yourself not a first responder, but

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Speaker 2: a last responder.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they would have. They would have called the The

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Speaker 1: Harris County Medical Examiner's Office have a forensic center there

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Speaker 1: and I used to know the guy there that was

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Speaker 1: the chief chief investigator. What was his last name. I

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Speaker 1: think his last name was actually Ringo or I M.

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Speaker 1: G O. Yeah, he was a good guy. I talked

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Speaker 1: to him several times about cases. I had one case

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Speaker 1: when I was still in New Orleans I remember talking

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Speaker 1: to him, and I had another case when I was

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta. It's weird how your life crosses, your lives

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Speaker 1: can cross, and I think in both cases. I wanted

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Speaker 1: them to assist me with making notifications of next to

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Speaker 1: Kent Wow, which is what we would do. We would

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Speaker 1: reach out to fellow medical examiners and corners and say,

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Speaker 1: because we knew that they had training in it, can

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Speaker 1: you please go to this address for us, And we

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Speaker 1: would do it for other medical examiners too. We'd go

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Speaker 1: out the investigators with make notifications of local families where

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Speaker 1: deaths that occurred, you know, because you want somebody there anyway.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of a peripheral connection there. But back to

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Speaker 1: your earlier question, Yeah, they would call us here's the

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Speaker 1: here's kind of the weird thing about this case. And

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Speaker 1: I've actually had this happen a couple of times. Have

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Speaker 1: I told you about the kind of the adrenaline dump

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Speaker 1: that I used to get when I'd get a call

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Speaker 1: that would come in and it it would spike if

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Speaker 1: it was a homicide, and I could feel it within me.

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Speaker 1: You're sitting at the office and so you get a

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Speaker 1: call it's a call out and they might tell you

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Speaker 1: over the radio or they would actually call us on

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Speaker 1: the phone sometime. Headquarters would and say yeah, we've we've

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Speaker 1: got a and they would give us a code. Most

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Speaker 1: of the time, we've got a code. We've got a

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Speaker 1: In Atlanta it was a forty eight. In New Orleans

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Speaker 1: it was a twenty nine. And they might say it

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Speaker 1: appears to behindsight and so you can you feel the

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Speaker 1: scene come through your body. It's like electricity almost. It's

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Speaker 1: really weird. So you get this and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: make sure that you've got everything you need before you

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Speaker 1: walk out of the office because you don't know what

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Speaker 1: you're going to walk into and you're grabbing stuff. They

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Speaker 1: would have done this, and they would have gotten there.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing about it. When they got their dave,

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Speaker 1: they thought they had one body and the body was

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Speaker 1: in a car and it was a woman. This is

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Speaker 1: the part that has happened to me before. And you

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Speaker 1: talk about that adrenaline spike. I remember having an adrenaline

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Speaker 1: spike on top of an adrenaline spike at a scene

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Speaker 1: because they'll say, we've got another one over here.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And that's what turned out with this case, and you

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Speaker 1: can feel it. It kind of kind of builds, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the age that I'm at now, I look back

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Speaker 1: at it and I think about that, I think about

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Speaker 1: did that do anything to my body, brain and you know,

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Speaker 1: my heart or whatever the case might be. But and

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Speaker 1: then you're trying to do detailed work out there, and

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Speaker 1: you're trying to sess it because you know, if they

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Speaker 1: find an additional body, you know what, you're always thinking,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be another one found. Oh wow, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so you're you begin to look at the scene, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, is an outdoor scene. Obviously we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a car.

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Speaker 2: In a remote area where a lover's lane and by

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Speaker 2: the way, August outside of Houston, Texas.

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Speaker 1: And oh boy, yeah exactly, and you know you're thinking, okay,

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Speaker 1: have we just have we just stumbled into a dumping

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Speaker 1: ground because trust me, all the cops in this area

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Speaker 1: they know this is a lover's lane, all right. There's

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Speaker 1: no telling how many times they've rolled up and run

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Speaker 1: people off, Okay, And that's just you know, unless something

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Speaker 1: really bad is happening, the cops will most of the

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Speaker 1: time just grin and going about their business, you know,

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Speaker 1: because that's what young people do. You know, you're going

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Speaker 1: out to you know, what was it they say? On

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Speaker 1: happy days, We're going out to watch the submarine races, right,

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Speaker 1: And so but you know, yeah, but you show up,

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Speaker 1: you show up, and particularly like you said, in a

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Speaker 1: rural area, you don't know how to secure the scene

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Speaker 1: because you don't know what the totality of the scene is.

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Speaker 1: Because just think about it. Once you show up and

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Speaker 1: you have a body in a car and then there's

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Speaker 1: another body that sound, You're thinking, well, how far out

199
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Speaker 1: do I expand this thing? You know what's going to

200
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Speaker 1: be what's going to be my perimeter? You know where

201
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Speaker 1: am I going to set the brown boundaries on this thing.

202
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Speaker 1: It's almost like you look at it and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I need to go out at least plus two from here,

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Speaker 1: you know, to set the boundary. You know the old

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Speaker 1: adage about cassing a wide net and catching a lot

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Speaker 1: of fish. You want to set it as reasonably far

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Speaker 1: out as you possibly can. But Dave, in this case,

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Speaker 1: they would have seen her, this poor young woman contained

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Speaker 1: within this car, and she is just absolutely been brutalized.

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Speaker 1: But then I think it's like one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: yards away or something like that. Underneath some boards, they

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Speaker 1: find this young.

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Speaker 3: Man, dadidate try yeah, and he's he's had his throat

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Speaker 3: cut multiple times. As a matter of fact, one report

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Speaker 3: is his road was cut so deep he was almost decapitated. Well,

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Speaker 3: I'll go ahead and tell you I've already kind of

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Speaker 3: you know, shown my cards at this point. But you

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Speaker 3: know that we're talking about sharp force's injury cases here.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're we're talking about cases involving a knife,

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Speaker 3: and to this day, they never have said what type

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Speaker 3: of knife. This is?

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Speaker 1: All right, we just know sharp force injuries and I

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Speaker 1: know that they have this information by the way they look,

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Speaker 1: I know it was a long time in getting these

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Speaker 1: things off. They did a bang up job on it, okay,

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Speaker 1: because they collected everything that they possibly could at that

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Speaker 1: moment in time in the nineteen nineties and and processed

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Speaker 1: it with the technology that ad at their disposal. But

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Speaker 1: here's the problem with case like this. You're thinking, first off,

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Speaker 1: do you have these when you're looking at this case,

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Speaker 1: always keep this in mind. This is something we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about a crime con this year. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I hope everybody joins us there. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about how important identification is. And here's kind of a

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Speaker 1: reveal for you guys relatives to what I'm going to

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Speaker 1: talk about a crime con. I'll go ahead and say

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Speaker 1: it plainly. Cause of death is fine. A manner of

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Speaker 1: death comes after that. But you know, the most important

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Speaker 1: element to a death investigation for me is always identification.

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Speaker 1: And when you show up at a scene, it's not

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Speaker 1: like the clouds are going to part and right in

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Speaker 1: that moment, there's going to be a golden glow that's

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Speaker 1: going to come out, and you're going to know that

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Speaker 1: this female in the car is in fact this young woman.

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Speaker 1: You know that the interior of the car is probably

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Speaker 1: saturated with blood, and then you find this other body,

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Speaker 1: and you don't necessarily know that that other body is

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Speaker 1: the person that's missing. What you do know is you

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Speaker 1: have two bodies. Are they both connected? Well, logic would

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Speaker 1: dictate that more than likely. He's only one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty yards away. You've got this ghastly scene here, and

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Speaker 1: you've got another ghastly scene over here. But the idea

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Speaker 1: of trying to put both of these people in the

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Speaker 1: car together, is that possible? And that's probably in my mind,

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Speaker 1: at least from an investigative perspective, that's one of the

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Speaker 1: things I'd be trying to work out, Dave, where you know,

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Speaker 1: because with a case with the sequencing of death. You

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Speaker 1: always have a beginning and an end. Okay, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter if it's cancer or it's a guy and a

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Speaker 1: ski mask shahing you down with an axe. You're going

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Speaker 1: to have a beginning and an end to that fatal

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Speaker 1: moment in tom Where did all of this start? Did

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Speaker 1: it actually start in the car outside of the car,

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Speaker 1: or did it start out in the woods and the

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Speaker 1: car became secondary at that point in time. Kind Of

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing, isn't it, Because you know, we and

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this before. We talked about primary, secondary,

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Speaker 1: and tertiary scenes, right, and so this gets in when

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Speaker 1: you set it off the top. It's like you had

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Speaker 1: this insight into this about how complex this is, Dave.

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Speaker 2: It's very involved in that. When I looked at this

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Speaker 2: at the beginning part and I was reading what the

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Speaker 2: families had said about the couple and how they were

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Speaker 2: young and in love, and how wonderful these young people were.

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Speaker 2: They're not children, they're in their early twenties, and that's

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Speaker 2: at that age where you're developing your adulthood person, the

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Speaker 2: person you're going to be, and they were just really

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Speaker 2: really well thought of, and the destruction of those lives.

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Speaker 2: I was reading over the crime scene and how it

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Speaker 2: was described by police at the very beginning, and a

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Speaker 2: couple of words struck me on this, Joe. But it

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Speaker 2: was in particular that Cheryl and Andy were murdered in

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Speaker 2: an extremely violent manner. Now this is on the police report,

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Speaker 2: an extremely violent manner, and when it says something that

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Speaker 2: direct that it means they were both killed in a

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Speaker 2: similar way, but not necessarily together. And Joe, I got

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Speaker 2: to know, we have we have Cheryl in the car,

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Speaker 2: have Andy one hundred and fifty yards away, tied to

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Speaker 2: a tree with boards, and the report says that Cheryl

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Speaker 2: was killed first. And I'm one ring because all I

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Speaker 2: get picture was, here's this young couple in the throes

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Speaker 2: of infatuation, beginning stages of love, and here's the guy

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Speaker 2: taking one hundred and fifty yards away to watch what

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Speaker 2: they do or what I say they because I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine one person doing this. But you know, there's only

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Speaker 2: one person that we know of right this minute.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: But Joe, how do you break that down at the

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Speaker 2: crime scene? How do you determine you've got two victims?

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Speaker 2: And Okay, I.

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Speaker 1: Wish I did not I wish I had to answer

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Speaker 1: this because the cops are clearly saying this. They this

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Speaker 1: isn't some speculative thing that they've thrown out there. They're

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Speaker 1: saying that she died first. And there's also one statement.

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Speaker 1: Did you see the same statement where they said they

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Speaker 1: think he may have been made to watch? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's that's what got my attention, because they

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Speaker 2: said that he had to have seen and heard everything

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Speaker 2: that happened to her, and that it was staged in

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Speaker 2: that manner so that he could I mean.

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Speaker 1: You know, unless and you think about the dynamics of this,

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Speaker 1: and let's just kind of suss all this out just

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Speaker 1: for a quick second. What are the what are the

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Speaker 1: possible scenarios here we're thinking about this. Could he have

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Speaker 1: been restrained in one area and have seen this occur

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Speaker 1: as he is restrained in that specific area where he

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Speaker 1: was eventually found deceazed, Oh you are, and then it

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Speaker 1: was perpetrated in front of him where she was assaulted.

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Speaker 1: And we do know that this was a sexual attack

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Speaker 1: upon her where she is assaulted and then killed in

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Speaker 1: front of him, and they don't give her specific cause

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Speaker 1: of death. I can only imagine that it is probably

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Speaker 1: sharp force injury. That that's that's my thought at least.

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Speaker 1: Uh and maybe maybe bludgeoning. I don't know. Let's go

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Speaker 1: to ask you about that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the things they did say, Joe, was that

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Speaker 2: victims were tortured. Yeah, but they also showed signs of

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Speaker 2: prolonged torture. Prolonged torture, the victim showed signs of restraint,

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Speaker 2: showed signs of blunt force trauma. Both victims throats have

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Speaker 2: been slashed, and as you mentioned, Cheryl had been sexually assaulted,

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Speaker 2: and that the brutality suggests a sadistic offender. That's different

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Speaker 2: than just a guy that gets into a rage out

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Speaker 2: of control and beats the heck out of somebody. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is something that goes to the level of taking

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Speaker 2: you to the edge of death and bringing you back.

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Speaker 2: You told me about these before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have, and it's one of the most terrific

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Speaker 1: things a serial perpetrator. Actually, I won't spend a lot

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Speaker 1: of time on that, but actually used this was one

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Speaker 1: of his practices of case that I worked or cases

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Speaker 1: that I worked involved in this individual. And here here's

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Speaker 1: something else that I I know that you can fashion

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Speaker 1: a restraint out of out of just about anything. But David,

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Speaker 1: it says to me that he showed up prepared with

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Speaker 1: restraints in order, because can you imagine, It's one thing

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Speaker 1: if you have one person that you're trying to do

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Speaker 1: harm to and you're you have this fantasy worked out

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Speaker 1: in your mind. Oh and by the way, I've got

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Speaker 1: to create a restraint here. Okay, I've got to, you know,

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Speaker 1: find some way to tie them up. All right, But

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Speaker 1: now you're talking about two and one is a grown

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Speaker 1: young male who potentially beat you to death if you

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Speaker 1: press right buttons with him. Particularly considering that this is

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Speaker 1: the woman that he's you know, has an eye for,

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Speaker 1: you might have a wild man on your hands. So

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Speaker 1: you this individual has to show up prepared, I think.

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Speaker 1: And so that goes to your point about level of thought.

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Speaker 1: Uh kind of sadistic nature that this, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of recalls in your brain. I'm really interested, though, in

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Speaker 1: the dynamics of how this went down, because I can't

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Speaker 1: escape this idea that they're saying that he may have

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Speaker 1: been made to see all of this unfold before him,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to think about, you know, what

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Speaker 1: are the dynamics of that, what kind of the only

365
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Speaker 1: thing I could think of is where there did you

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Speaker 1: have multiple blood trails that were leading to and from

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Speaker 1: where he was? Was there? And when I say blood trail,

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Speaker 1: had they been initially attacked and then made to both

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Speaker 1: walk out into the woods and you've got identifying blood

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Speaker 1: that trails all the way there from both subjects. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's plausible. He's restrained out there,

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Speaker 1: she's sexually assaulted, tortured, sexually assaulted, and eventually killed. He

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Speaker 1: kills him while he's in a restrained state. And again,

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Speaker 1: this is not Morgan saying this. This is the report

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Speaker 1: we're hearing. He's almost decapitated. And then he would pick

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Speaker 1: her up and bring her back to the car, or

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Speaker 1: did he get into the back seat of this vehicle

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Speaker 1: with her and while this young man was restrained in

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Speaker 1: the front seat. You see what I'm saying. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: the calculus on this scene is quite interesting. And the blood,

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Speaker 1: the blood evidence, I think is going to tell Okay,

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Speaker 1: So if there was no bloody deposition from her leading

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Speaker 1: away from the car and you only maybe found his

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Speaker 1: that simplifies things a little bit. And surrounding his body

385
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Speaker 1: where he found is there any other was there any

386
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Speaker 1: blood deposition from her that may have been deposited there?

387
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Speaker 1: And also here's something else that'll kind of bake your

388
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Speaker 1: brain a little bit. Did either of the two victims

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Speaker 1: have blood from the eye the one on them, like

390
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Speaker 1: where they literally inoculated with the blood from the other person?

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Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying, Yeah, because you know, I

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Speaker 1: thought about that, like for instance, in the one who

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Speaker 1: shall by not be named in Idaho with the knife

394
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Speaker 1: early on with those four victims, one of them, I

395
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Speaker 1: had this thought early and I remember back in twenty

396
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Speaker 1: twenty two when that occurred, and I was thinking about

397
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Speaker 1: the transfer of evidence from everybody upstairs? Did you have

398
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Speaker 1: blood that was sourced from either of the two victims upstairs?

399
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Speaker 1: Down on the two subjects, you know, down on the individuals,

400
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Speaker 1: on their bodies, you know where you got this transfer

401
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: off the knife. So this is something that would come

402
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 1: into play here as well. It's very very complex. You

403
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: think about all of the physical evidence that would have

404
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 1: been contained within the car, and this this is going

405
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Speaker 1: to be everything from because people are not just going

406
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Speaker 1: to merely sit back and allow themselves to be tortured

407
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Speaker 1: over a period of time, without movement.

408
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Speaker 2: Wonder what kind of person could control that situation? Yeah,

409
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Speaker 2: I know, what kind of person could show up on

410
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Speaker 2: Lover's lane?

411
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Speaker 1: Dark?

412
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Speaker 2: Quiet, nobody else out there? There's one car, and what

413
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 2: kind of person, what type of profession could possibly pull

414
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: up on this individual? And I don't know, maybe drop

415
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Speaker 2: a blue light and say gotcha, yeah and put them

416
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Speaker 2: under control exactly.

417
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Speaker 1: And that's what I was thinking. We know that this case,

418
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Speaker 1: they do have a suspect in this case, and David,

419
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Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and reveal it right now. But we

420
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Speaker 1: know that this suspect, according to the investigators, does apparently

421
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Speaker 1: have a history of having a car. And let me know,

422
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,479
Speaker 1: let me see if you remember these do you remember

423
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Speaker 1: the Chevy Caprices that were shaped like shoe boxes. There

424
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Speaker 1: were four doors. As cops drove them, they either drove yeah,

425
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Speaker 1: they either drove Crown Fix which are the Ford, or

426
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Speaker 1: they drove the Chevy Caprice all right, which is a

427
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: four door as well. Well. This individual had a Chevy

428
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: Caprice that the image that I saw had red lights

429
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Speaker 1: on the grill and also had the old bubblegum plug

430
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Speaker 1: in light that goes on the dash. Oh, I don't

431
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 1: know if you're a civilian. You don't know, you know,

432
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: if that's legit or not. And if somebody pulls pulls

433
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: you over and they've got lights flashing outside the car,

434
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: and Dave, you know, you really reminded me of something.

435
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: This is what a great producer I have in Dave.

436
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: Dave reminded me of five cases, the original Lover's Lane

437
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: case or you know, kind of became the you know

438
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: that you've had a lot of these things. Now, if

439
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: you have the original Lover's Lane case and that's a

440
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: Texar can of moonlight murders, you have five murders there

441
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: that was that was on a secluded area, people would

442
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: know about it to a certain degree de viewed. Included

443
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: the Zodiac killings. I remember the two that had taken

444
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: place where the young couple were up in the car.

445
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: He had one guy I think he survived, the young

446
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: woman did not. The Colonial Parkway murders, which they've just

447
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: made huge headway on. And congratulations mister Thomas on that,

448
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: by the way, and also son of Sam and you

449
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: had mentioned that's not a rural area, that that's actually

450
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: very urban. But again walking up on couples because they're

451
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: completely taken unaware and then the Atlanta Lovers Lane murders

452
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: as well, So you know, there's a number of these

453
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: things where you know, and I hate to dehumanize this,

454
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: but you're you know, to use to allude to this,

455
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: but you're it's fish in a barrel because you're completely

456
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: distracted in this environment and somebody could in fact come

457
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: by and take control of you. So as you can see,

458
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: Lover's Lane attacks are not something that's new under the sun.

459
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: But I can't tell you this as of today. I'm

460
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: happy we've got some good news coming out of this case.

461
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: Are cases in Houston been a long time coming. Dave

462
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. All these years, these families have sat and waited.

463
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: It makes the news cycle every now and then, these

464
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: two horrific homicides. But as of this past week, that's

465
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: why I reached out to you, is we've got some

466
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: good news to report. If you can draw anything good

467
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: out of this, well, but yeah, I think for the

468
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: families it's good. Certainly think about it, Joe.

469
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: You know, back what were you doing in August of

470
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety and you know, I think back on that.

471
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: I think of the families and what they've suffered. Through

472
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: since that time with no solution, you know, and I

473
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: think of the work being done at AUTHROM what the

474
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 2: middlemans have been able to set up because you've got

475
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: law enforcement that never gave up on this case. You've

476
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 2: get detectives on the ground, investigators, an entire department devoted

477
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: year after year of doing whatever they can with the

478
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: evidence they have, of making sure that they keep it

479
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: in working order, you know, the case so that as

480
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: as the science grew, there would be a chance to

481
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: try to run it again. And Joe, this is why

482
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: I started off at the very beginning of the thing.

483
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 2: We're going to probably do multiple stories on this because

484
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: we do have a suspect and he was arrested and

485
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: his name is Floyd William Parrott. He's sixty four years old.

486
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: He was arrested in Lincoln, Nebraska. But Joe, he hasn't

487
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: been living there. He's only been in Lincoln, Nebraska for

488
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 2: the last couple of years. He's remained in Houston, in

489
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: the Houston area up until a couple of years ago.

490
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: Low these many years and by the way, he was

491
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: in court they arrested at him in the last few days.

492
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: He has already had a court appearance, and he is

493
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: fighting extradition. It's just a matter of paperwork and argument,

494
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: but he will end up back in Houston. He will

495
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: face these charges, but he is going to fight extradition.

496
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: He's asked for an attorney. Just to give your heads up.

497
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: But Joe, how did they how did they zero in

498
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: on this one person and give me the background on

499
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: him that you know of because you hit me with

500
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: something a little while ago, and I went, you know,

501
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: it really fits this more than anything else that makes

502
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: the case it Actually I could understand how this evilness

503
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: could take place, how he pulled it off.

504
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so we got to go back to nineteen ninety six, Dave,

505
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: I think it was. I think that's the year it is.

506
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: And this suspect has actually been hooked up on a

507
00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: sexual assault charge before. This is something that this is not,

508
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: as they say, unfamiliar, unfamiliar ground for him. And I,

509
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: you know, from my perspective is if an individual will

510
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: sexually assault someone, the leap going into this piece of sadism.

511
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying satanism, saying sadism, which means driving

512
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: joy from inflicting pain upon others. That's not a very

513
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: far leap, because it's almost like it's this graduated thing

514
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: that takes place but day from that case. They were

515
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: able to get DNA sample from him in that particular case.

516
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: And so when you have this connectivity between this case

517
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: in ninety six and you have the Lover's Lane cases

518
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: all the way back from ninety which was in fact

519
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: a sexual assault, you've got I'm expecting to hear that

520
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: we got seminal deposit with this guy. In both of

521
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: these cases, you have tie backs. So what do we

522
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: have developing here? Kids? Everybody say it together a pattern?

523
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: We have a pattern developing. And this is one of

524
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: the reasons, you know, I think, you know, brother Dave

525
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: had mentioned that we're going to we're going to have

526
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: to do more than one episode about this case, because

527
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: I think this guy's cooling his heels up in Lincoln

528
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: right now, and they are all they're waiting on is

529
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: the governor of Texas to sign this extradition order. And

530
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: they've got an agreement with Nebraska. This is nothing new

531
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: under the sun. They do this all the time. They

532
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: will have him back in Houston, in Harris County, like

533
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: in a matter of days, I would imagine very quickly

534
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: now I don't know they are going to charge him

535
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: with these cases. That's why this is ramped up so much,

536
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: because is you know, our friends at author were able

537
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: to underpin this entire investigation with these scientific truths that

538
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: they discovered relative to this that point back to him.

539
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: And this isn't a unique case, Dave, because not only

540
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: do we have an intersection of the code system relative

541
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: to a prior sexual assault case, we have intersection with

542
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: familial DNA connectivity too. And I know people think that

543
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: that happens a lot, but many times with these AUTHORM cases,

544
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: many of them are things that you never got to

545
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: hit on on codis. We've got to hit on codis

546
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: with this guy. In addition of this, my thinking though, Dave,

547
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: is are there other ones out there? I think that

548
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: any reasonable person would want to would want to ask

549
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: that question. Why would you go to the trouble of

550
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: outfitting yourself with a police car and it's an unmarked

551
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: police car. It's merely a white plane. Wrapper car is unmarked.

552
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: So if you're tooling down the road with this thing,

553
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: this guy's really bold. You remember you remember early on

554
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: when I when I opened this up and I said, hey,

555
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: you know what it's generally, the people that deceive even

556
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 1: the biggest ways to get that, get that don't get

557
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: caught for the for the longest period of time. If

558
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: you're willing to go out and actually say that you're

559
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: a cop or pretend that you're a cop, you talk

560
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: about sticking your neck out because you know what, you're

561
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: running the risk of being found out. First off, because

562
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: you're hiding in plain sight. If a cop pulls you over. Buddy,

563
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: how are you going to explain this away? Why is

564
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: it that you've got Did this guy carry badges with him,

565
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: because we've seen that happen before. Credentials Did he have

566
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: credentials with him? And could he validate? Could he talk

567
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: to talk you know, regarding you know, you look at

568
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: somebody like a serial killer like Ed Kemper. Ed Kemper

569
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: loved hanging out with cops, you know, and he's he

570
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: and be on the forest because he was so big.

571
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: It's like he's a giant. You know, it's six' nine

572
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: or something like. This but he loved hanging out with.

573
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 1: Cops he knew how cops. Spoke did this guy hang

574
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: out with? Cops had he ever tried to become a.

575
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: Cop you see that happen a lot with the serial.

576
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: Perpetrators there's a thread of that that runs through not

577
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: a lot of, them but there's a thread that runs

578
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: through many of these. Cases they want to be in

579
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: an asymmetrical, relationship and that's what most sexual assault cases, Are.

580
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: Dave it's there is a distinct asymmetry because you've got

581
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: an individual that can, overpower that can brutalize and can

582
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: take what they, want including lives in this.

583
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: Case now thinking of how he was able to gain

584
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: how the, accused the alleged, murderer the guy has been

585
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 2: arrested and, charge how he was able to gain control

586
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: of the. Situation and you, know you've got a young

587
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: couple that's doing their thing and all of a sudden

588
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: they see a blue, light you, know or any kind

589
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: of a light bagging name ninety that any, case you

590
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 2: have police, there it's, dark nobody's. Around you don't expect

591
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: to be. Interrupted and now you're, interrupted and you've got blue.

592
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 2: Lights you're not going to be looking at id and.

593
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: Badgie you're going to be seeing probably a, gun probably

594
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 2: a night, stick probably a large, flashlight you, know and

595
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 2: usually it's the flashlight that bangs on the. Window, hey

596
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: get your clothes, on and it's from you got to.

597
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: Revitalize as you mentioned minute, ago it's a you're in

598
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: a very bad situation in terms of. Defense you cannot

599
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: defend your situation physically or any other. Way you're off.

600
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: Guard you're addressing somebody you believe is probably an authority,

601
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: figure probably a. Cop we're on our, way, officer and

602
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: so he's already got. You and that's Why i'm wondering

603
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: did he have? Handcuffs we know rope was. Used we

604
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 2: know that he was able to. That these the alleged killer.

605
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: Tortured and that's what really gets me because there's going

606
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: to be more information that comes out of. This and

607
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: you mentioned to me so many times how one case

608
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 2: leads to. Another you don't start off here and back.

609
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 2: Down this is. You you growed at this.

610
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: Point so, yeah you don't run a talladega until you've

611
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: run on the dirt. Tracks AND i got to tell,

612
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: you the WAY i look at this is that you,

613
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 1: know right out of the, gate this individual is going

614
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: to have a history of probably sexual sadism more than.

615
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: Likely was this his big, splash you? Know or had

616
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: he done it? Before you, know you need to ask that.

617
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: Question i'm sure that the authorities are they're looking to

618
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: connect him in some. Way but, again, guys this brings

619
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: us back to what we've said time and time again

620
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 1: on this, program and that is you never. Know it

621
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: could be your nickel that changes. Things and that's why

622
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: we believe in dnasolts dot. Com you have to visit

623
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: our friends at, authorm check them, out see what they're.

624
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: Doing and if you VISIT dna slce dot, com go

625
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: there and look and see if there is a case

626
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: that piques your, interest something that is geographically familiar to.

627
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: You maybe it's your, hometown maybe it's where you live right.

628
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: NOW i don't, know or maybe it's something about the.

629
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: Case you, KNOW i read over some of these cases,

630
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: sometimes AND i never say THAT i believe in ghosts

631
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: Because i've been around dead bodies a long. Time i've

632
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: never had one manifest itself to. Me BUT i am

633
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: haunted by. Things and if there are some things that

634
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: you read that are in fact, haunting BECAUSE i can

635
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: look back AND i can think about what was that

636
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: person potentially doing at the moment they died in that

637
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: lonely space that they were found in there was no

638
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: hope that they would ever be. Identified, okay well now

639
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to make a difference in that.

640
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: Way all you have to do is check OUT dna

641
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: sools dot. Com go there see if there's anything that interests.

642
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: You these folks at author them are not asking for

643
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: a bazillion. Dollars just a couple of bucks can push

644
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Speaker 1: their way toward a case that you want to help out.

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00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: With you never know that nickel that you put in

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00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: the box might help solve crime or might reunite a

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00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: family with a long sense deceased loved. One I'm Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott morgan and this Is bodybacks