1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 2: episode is airing in mid September of twenty twenty four. 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: Sarah is going to be interviewing Erica Arisbaddan, who is 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: the former CEO of Barstool Sports, so she has a 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: lot to tell us about careers and business and life. 16 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: She is the author of a book called No One 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: Cares About Your Career, right, Sarah? Is that how? That's 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: the book? 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: Yes? 20 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: And I love the title. I feel like it's so 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 3: descriptive and just very honest. It's a very honest book. 22 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. 23 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 2: And the idea that like nobody cares about your career, 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: I guess it's more not that like nobody has any 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: interest in it whatsoever, but more that you are the 26 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: one who kind of has to take charge of it 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: because there's not some career fairy godmother out there looking 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: out for you or designing your career path or telling 29 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: you what is the best next step. You kind of 30 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 2: have to figure that out for yourself. But that is 31 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: part of taking your career seriously, which is something that 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: we definitely advocate here on this podcast. So, Sarah, did 33 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: you have a clear vision of what you wanted your 34 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: work life to look like before you started working? 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: To some extent, yes, I feel like that vision has 36 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 3: shifted over time. And honestly, if I didn't have my 37 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: blog actually see in writing what I thought my vision 38 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: would be, I'm not sure I would remember this. But 39 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: I even noted back like fifteen years ago or more 40 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: that I wanted to do be a part time pediatric indocronologist. 41 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: So I must have had some other ideas in mine. 42 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 3: I might not have wanted to voice them because that 43 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 3: would have felt risky at the time, But I kind 44 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: of always knew I wanted to do a lot of 45 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 3: different things. I knew I wanted to do medicine, I 46 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: wanted to see patients, I wanted to do pediatric indochronology, 47 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 3: and I do feel like along the way, I have 48 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 3: then played with things. We've done career crafting episodes where 49 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: we talked about various things. But I do think the 50 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: true it's so true what Eric's title says, which is 51 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: that like, no one is going to hand you on 52 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: a silver platter, like this is what your day to 53 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 3: day life and career will look like. And here's a 54 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 3: step you could take, and here's a leadership position you 55 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 3: could take, and here's. 56 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 4: A pathword upward for you. 57 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: Like there may be some mentorship that help you see 58 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 3: what possibilities there are, but the only one that's really 59 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: going to be invested in what that path looks like 60 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: and it's going to have to actually take those steps 61 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 3: to put themselves out there is you. So that's why 62 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: I was really attracted to the title of this book. 63 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm excited with this conversation. 64 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely when you build your own business, 65 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: this becomes apparent very quickly. Like you know, it's not 66 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: like school where tenth grade follows ninth grade and if 67 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: you do these requirements, you will move on to the 68 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: next level. I mean, it's unclear what the next level is, 69 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: and even if you have a picture of it, it 70 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: doesn't always mean that there's some straightforward thing that will 71 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: get you there. You can definitely take steps backward, try 72 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: things that don't work. You know, it's just all risk 73 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: taking and you hope some of it pays off eventually. 74 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: But that's why you got to keep thinking about it, 75 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: because again, nobody else cares about your career, but you 76 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of stuff in life that 77 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: nobody's going to care as much as you are, and 78 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: you just I think that goes both ways. I mean, 79 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: it's kind of like, oh, well, I better take it 80 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: seriously then, and it's also like, well it's kind of liberating. 81 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know why we have this. It's 82 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: kind of I don't know if it's an American cultural 83 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: thing where people always have to claim that there's a 84 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: lot of opposition to whatever, Like nobody told me I 85 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: could do this, or you know, I people said I 86 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: couldn't do X, Y or Z. I'm you know, for 87 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: most of it, probably nobody really cared. 88 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 4: Everyone's still busy paying attention to themselves. 89 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, no one cares. So that'll be our 90 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: takeaway from this nobody cares about your career, so you should. 91 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: So let's hear what Erica has to say. 92 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 3: Well, I am so excited to welcome to best of 93 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 3: both worlds Erica Ayers Badon, who was former CEO of 94 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 3: Barstool Sports, a company many of you may have heard of, 95 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: and the author of Nobody Cares about your career, which 96 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 3: is really what we're going to talk about during this 97 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 3: interview today. 98 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 4: So welcome Erica. 99 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me so. 100 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 4: Excited to talk. 101 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 3: I was attracted, especially honestly to the title of your book, 102 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 3: and we'll get to that in a minute. But just 103 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 3: in case people don't know about you or don't know 104 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 3: about Barstool Sports, can you give us the like three 105 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 3: minute version of your career journey. I know that's asking 106 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: a lot because you've been you've done a lot of things. 107 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's good. 108 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 5: I think everybody should do a lot of things in 109 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 5: their career. So my career has predominantly been in the 110 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 5: intersection between technology, the internet, content, advertising, and commerce. Like 111 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 5: that's really where I've lived my professional life. I worked 112 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 5: at a lot of really big companies like Microsoft and 113 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 5: AOL and Yahoo. I have worked at a bunch of startups, 114 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 5: a lot of you know, which were disasters. 115 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: One was part of an IPO and then was a disaster. 116 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 5: And about a decade ago, ten years ago, I took 117 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 5: the CEO job at Barstool Sports, which was at the 118 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 5: time a very small, like fledgling, little renegade brand in Boston, Massachusetts, 119 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 5: which started as a newspaper became a very janky app 120 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 5: and a website and it was all about opinion and 121 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 5: perspective and personality, mostly about sports. And I joined that 122 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 5: company in twenty sixteen. It had twelve people, no p 123 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 5: and L, no business system, and we grew it and 124 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 5: sold it for five hundred and fifty million dollars in 125 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. So we had a huge, crazy, big run. 126 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 5: It was wild and exhilarating, very funny. We grew it 127 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 5: to be one of the ten largest brands in the 128 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 5: world on TikTok and an ultimate real powerhouse in American media. 129 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 5: So that's kind of the Barstool Sports of it all. 130 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 5: And now I'm the CEO of a company called Food 131 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 5: fifty two, which is a lifestyle home and food brand. 132 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: Amazing, what an incredible journey all that experimentation led you 133 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: to like an amazing success story, and yet you decide done, 134 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 3: let me keep going. 135 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, maybe I'm an idiot. I might be 136 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: an idiot. 137 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 4: That is amazing. 138 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 3: I'm always inspired by that into somebody who clearly like 139 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: might not have to continuing to be chugging along, and 140 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: yet they're impassioned, they're excited, and everything just ends up 141 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: like falling into place for them to continue pushing. 142 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 4: So super exciting. 143 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 5: That's awesome. Yeah, I do like to work. So here 144 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 5: we are all right. 145 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 3: Well, on the note of work, you had a lot 146 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: to say, like a lot to say your book. There's 147 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: just so much in there. I'm super excited to talk 148 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: about it. Just so much useful and interesting stuff and 149 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: so many stories. So let's start with the title. Where 150 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 3: did you come up with? Nobody cares about your career? 151 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: And I don't know, is that something you've always kind 152 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 3: of been passionate about the idea that you have to 153 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: take charge of it on your own or tell me 154 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 3: a little bit about that. 155 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 4: The title? 156 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was funny. So I you know, I wrote 157 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: the book. 158 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 5: I think the publisher expected like a fairly short book, 159 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 5: and it kept like getting longer and longer. And longer 160 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 5: and longer, and we edited quite a bit out of 161 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 5: it actually, So the book was pretty dense in a 162 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 5: good way, I would say, And I didn't know what 163 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,559 Speaker 5: to call it. And nobody cares about your career wasn't 164 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 5: the intended title at all. 165 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: It was just one of the chapters. 166 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 5: And it's something that I've said to myself really since 167 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 5: almost the beginning of my career, and it's just always 168 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 5: been a mantra I've had in my head, which is 169 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 5: that you are the one who can make a difference 170 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 5: in your life and in your job and in your career, 171 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 5: and that it is a complete and utter waste of 172 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 5: time to live a life or have a job, or 173 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 5: be in a career or be on a track that 174 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 5: feels good or looks good or says a certain thing 175 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 5: or is a certain way to somebody else. You really 176 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 5: need to do things that make you happy and create fulfillment. 177 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 5: And that you are ultimately responsible. 178 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: For your career. 179 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 5: You're responsible for the path you take and also what 180 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 5: happens on that path. So that's really where the title 181 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 5: came from. And you know, it's fun. I think it's 182 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 5: a good message for people. I think you kind of 183 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 5: see it, it seems negative. It's actually, in my opinion, 184 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 5: very positive because it's supposed to be very freeing. This 185 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 5: book is designed to be freeing and to empower people 186 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 5: to say, Hey, what makes me happy and energized? How 187 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 5: can I push myself? What iterations of myself can I 188 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 5: be and become? And hopefully this book is helpful along 189 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 5: that path. 190 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: Yes, I think the word empowering is exactly what I 191 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,599 Speaker 3: was thinking, like, Okay, no one else is going to 192 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 3: take charge of this, and therefore it's on me and 193 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 3: I must be empowered to move forward, empowered to make decisions, 194 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: and empowered to take responsibility for my actions, which is 195 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: a major theme in this book that we're going to 196 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 3: talk about. And in fact, you spend a lot of 197 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 3: time talking about failure and mistiqus. So before we even 198 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: get into how you recommend others with failure along the 199 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 3: course of their careers, can you tell us about what 200 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 3: kinds of failures you've had or have there been struggles 201 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 3: that kind of inspired this passion around failure. 202 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, I like failure. I call it fail always mode. 203 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 5: Success I think can make me uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable, 204 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 5: and I think the reason I think failure is really important, 205 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 5: and the book talks a lot about my failures and 206 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 5: just failure in general. Is that what failure really is. 207 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 5: It means two things, in my opinion. One is, or 208 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 5: in the best case, it means two things. One is, 209 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 5: you're putting yourself in an environment where you don't know 210 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 5: exactly what to do, so you are in a new environment. 211 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 5: You are learning things, You're pushing yourself. You're putting yourself 212 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 5: in a place where it's not all perfect and you're 213 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 5: not the expert and you have to figure some stuff out. 214 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 5: So it indicates that you are in an environment that 215 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 5: is not comfortable. 216 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: And then the second is it's indicating that. 217 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 5: You're trying, you're experimenting, you're trying to figure things out, 218 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 5: and failure if you think about exercise, you think about sports, 219 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 5: you think about experiments. I read a social post the 220 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 5: other day that the inventor of the dice in vacuum 221 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 5: had like something like five thousand prototypes. He built five 222 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 5: thousand vacuums that didn't work until he built the five 223 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 5: thousand and. 224 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: Whatever one that became the dice in vacuum. 225 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 5: That is also failure, right, It's knowing that you're trying 226 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 5: to do something, you're trying to become something, You're trying 227 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 5: to figure something out, and you don't know exactly how 228 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 5: to do it, but you do have the willingness to try. 229 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 5: And that's really you know, this book is about, in 230 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 5: a nutshell, you need to put away your insecurity, which 231 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 5: is I'm not good enough, I don't know enough, I'm 232 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 5: not ready. And you need to put away your ego, 233 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 5: which is I'm too good for this, I'm above this, 234 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 5: I'm better than this. You have to put both of 235 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 5: those things away and kind of show up with yourself 236 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 5: to tackle the problem that's in front of you, and 237 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 5: that can really great things can come of that. 238 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 3: All right, we're going to take a quick break and 239 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 3: then we're gonna talk more a little bit on the 240 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 3: subject of failure. 241 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 4: We'll be right back. 242 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: All right, we are back, and I want to get 243 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 3: a little bit into specifics. So, first of all, if 244 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 3: you can think of an example from your career where 245 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 3: there has been perhaps a fail and how you handled 246 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 3: it or maybe even learned from how you handled it. 247 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 3: Maybe you failed at handling your fail and then that 248 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 3: taught you something as well. And then like maybe a 249 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 3: scenario where someone works in a corporation and they realized 250 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: they messed up, Like, how do you handle it? 251 00:12:59,480 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? 252 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 5: I mean I fail all the time, So how long 253 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 5: do you have I've had all sorts of different failures 254 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 5: in my career. I handled things the wrong way. I 255 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 5: managed people in a way that I had wished I 256 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 5: had managed them differently. I was confronted with situations where 257 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 5: I did one thing, but in hindsight I was like, Oh, 258 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 5: I knew in my gut I shouldn't have done that. 259 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 5: I should do it a different way. I've had really 260 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 5: every imaginable failure there is. You know, I had a 261 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 5: big part of my time spent at Barstool trying to 262 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 5: make a TV show that our board really felt like 263 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 5: we needed a TV show. And I spent a year 264 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 5: of my life forty percent of that year trying to 265 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 5: get Barstool Sports on ESPN. And it didn't feel good 266 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 5: the whole time. It was painful, it was cumbersome, it 267 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 5: was fraught with pitfalls. It kept going back to the 268 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 5: same place that was like, this doesn't seem like a 269 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 5: good fit, this doesn't seem like a good fit. And 270 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 5: still I kept pushing, pushing, pushing to make it happen 271 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 5: because it's what I thought I was supposed to do, 272 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 5: and it ended up being a total disaster. The show 273 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 5: ran for one night, it was canceled, it became this 274 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 5: whole big brew haha with ESPN and barstool. But it's 275 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 5: a good example of if you keep going on a 276 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 5: path that you're pretty sure you're not supposed to be on, 277 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 5: and you are not listening to the signs that are 278 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 5: like get off this highway. 279 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: Get off this highway, like take the exit. Take the exit. 280 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: It's going to end up probably bad. 281 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 5: And you knew that it was not going to end 282 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 5: up well, So that would be one big example of 283 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 5: a failure. I tend to believe that people are optimists, 284 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 5: so that even and I'm an optimist, so that even 285 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 5: when you do fail, I'm kind of getting to your 286 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 5: second question, you'll probably rationalize that it was good that 287 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 5: that happened because something else good came of it. So 288 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 5: that's also a reason not to be afraid of failure, 289 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 5: is that you're going to say that this was for 290 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 5: the best anyway, so you might as well just do it. 291 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 5: I think when people in a corporate setting are at 292 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 5: work mess up on something and I write a lot 293 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 5: about this, like what happens. 294 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: After you screw up? What do you do after you 295 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: screw up? Because everybody screws up? First of all. 296 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 5: My perspective on that is that when you mess up, 297 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 5: the best thing you can do is to reassess. You 298 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 5: need to be able to step out of the situation 299 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 5: you're in, and you need to be able to say 300 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 5: what went wrong here critically thinking, really critically, being critical 301 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 5: about yourself of. 302 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: What did I do wrong? What went wrong? What should 303 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: have been done? Differently? 304 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 5: I think a lot of times when things go wrong, 305 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 5: especially at work, people tend to blame everybody else, and 306 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 5: it's just about deflecting so you don't look bad. The 307 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 5: people who look great after a mistake, and I write 308 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 5: a lot of about this are the people who own it, 309 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 5: who say this didn't go great, and here's why this 310 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 5: didn't go great. This broke down, This broke down. Don't 311 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 5: be personal, don't lay blame other places, just address it 312 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 5: and then quickly get to what can you do to 313 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 5: fix it? This doesn't account like all the feelings, like 314 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 5: when stuff goes wrong at work, like the feelings kind 315 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 5: of last a little bit longer than maybe the solution 316 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 5: or the then the time you want to get to 317 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 5: the solution. So I also really I think it's important 318 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 5: to feel failure and be like ooh, like that was 319 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 5: a tough lesson that didn't feel good, but still to 320 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 5: get back up on the horse and get moving and 321 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 5: move forward. 322 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 3: I love that You've also had a great story in 323 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 3: your book. It was like a It just was just 324 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 3: perfect for me because I was like, yeah, that's you 325 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 3: had a party and there were talks being given at 326 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 3: the party. 327 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: Oh, my most epic failure, and I could just. 328 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 4: Picture it so easily. 329 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: But then to like own it and be like, Okay, 330 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 3: I'm never ever doing it again. I take full responsibility 331 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 3: for it. Here's why we can't do this. And then 332 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 3: you never ever had that happened at any event you 333 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: ever were part of ever again, I'm assuming completely. 334 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think failure happens all the time. I had 335 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 5: a business meeting this morning, I had a conference call 336 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 5: this morning, and we had a huge screw up on 337 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 5: the supply chain, and instead of addressing it and saying, hey, 338 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 5: there's something really broken. We screwed up on the supply chain, 339 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 5: the person in charge of it was just burying everyone 340 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 5: in data like, here's no, no, really, like at the 341 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 5: micro level, here's what happened. Here's all the widgets, all 342 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 5: the data points. And I'm like, how is this helping 343 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 5: anyone move forward? Like, let's step back, let's admit something. 344 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: Went really wrong. What went wrong? 345 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 5: And what are the three things we're going to do 346 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 5: to solve it right now in the middle of the crisis, 347 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 5: And what are three things we're going to do to 348 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 5: make sure this never happens again. And I think it's 349 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 5: just really good to have that skill because the reality 350 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 5: is work is hard, and a lot of bad stuff 351 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 5: can happen at work, and things don't go the right way, 352 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 5: or products don't land the way they're supposed to, or 353 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 5: goals aren't met. And being able to be like, okay, wait, 354 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 5: I'm going to reframe this thing so we can do 355 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 5: something positive about it, I think is a really important skill. 356 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 4: I love it. 357 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 3: Well, We're going to pivot a little bit and talk 358 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 3: about one of everybody's favorite topics when it comes to work, 359 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 3: which is bosses. 360 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: Ooh, I love bosses. 361 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 3: Okay, so difficult bosses or bosses maybe where your styles 362 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 3: are incredibly different or I think your words you're misaligned. 363 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 3: How do you advise handling it? And I guess when 364 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: would you at some point decide like time to move on? 365 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 5: Yes, okay, I have a lot of opinion on this. 366 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 5: I have a whole matrix of bosses, the friend boss, 367 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 5: the absent boss, the micromanaging boss. In general, I hate 368 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 5: having a boss, so I want to just disclose that, like, 369 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 5: I'm from the camp of people that never wanted a boss. 370 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 5: But I don't think that having a bad boss necessarily 371 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 5: has to be bad for you. I think a lot 372 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 5: of really good things in my career is a good 373 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 5: example of this. A lot of really good things can 374 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 5: come out of having a really bad boss. And the 375 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 5: reason I say that is a lot of times, to 376 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 5: the title of nobody cares about your career, people put 377 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 5: too much emphasis for their career in their boss's hands. 378 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: It's almost like you give. 379 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 5: Your career to your boss to decide are you on 380 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 5: the path, are you off the path? 381 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: Are you doing a good job, are you not doing 382 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: a good job. 383 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 5: And I don't really actually think that's your career has 384 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 5: nothing to do with your boss, like your career should 385 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 5: be for you. But I think it's important to understand 386 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 5: what type of boss you have so that you can 387 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 5: best navigate and be successful with that boss. So in 388 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 5: my mind, I had a lot of absent bosses, And 389 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 5: absent bosses are people they don't really care about what 390 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 5: you're doing on a day to day basis you're doing 391 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 5: a good enough job, They've got other fires to fight. 392 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 5: They're just going to like, let you be, leave you alone. 393 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 5: Sometimes people don't like that because they're like, I'm not 394 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 5: getting the attention I want or I'm not getting the 395 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 5: direction I need. My point of view on. 396 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: That is screw it. 397 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 5: Like take the opportunity to take as much work as 398 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 5: you humanly can, as many projects as you can get 399 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 5: yourself involved in, and use the absentness of your boss 400 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 5: to create more opportunity for you. So that for me 401 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 5: is like one way you would handle an absent boss. 402 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 5: People have bosses who are idiots, and I've had a 403 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 5: bunch of bosses who are idiots. And the other piece 404 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 5: of having an idiot is you can spend all your 405 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 5: time either complaining about your idiot boss, which is kind 406 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 5: of dangerous because it eventually is going to get back 407 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 5: to them. And two that doesn't really help you or 408 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 5: that person or two. You can use their deficiencies as 409 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 5: ways that you can show strength. So you know, I 410 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 5: had a boss who I would describe as an idiot, 411 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 5: and I at first was annoyed and like kind of 412 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 5: bitter about it, and then I was like, you know what, 413 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 5: I'm going to get invited to every meeting this guy's 414 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 5: getting invited to because I know so much more, And 415 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 5: what an opportunity for me. I could have written this 416 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 5: off as a really bad thing, it actually was a 417 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 5: great thing. It put me in a position to do 418 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 5: a whole bunch of things and be seen by a 419 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 5: whole bunch of people who never would have otherwise cared 420 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 5: or known what I did. 421 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: I do think it gets to inside. 422 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,239 Speaker 5: This is super long winded, but I do think that 423 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 5: micromanaging bosses and toxic bosses you should not stay with. 424 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 5: And I think it's fine for your boss to be absent. 425 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 5: I think it's kind of dangerous when your boss is 426 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 5: your friend. I think it's okay even if your boss 427 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 5: is an idiot. But if your boss is really toxic, 428 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 5: which means to say they don't have good intentions, they're negative. 429 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 5: They're creating an environment where you cannot succeed or your 430 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 5: boss is just on you on every you can't move 431 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 5: because your boss is so suffocating. I think both of 432 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 5: those scenarios are scenarios that you should stay in long 433 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 5: enough to learn it and know it, but don't stay 434 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 5: so long as you become affected by it. 435 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 3: That makes sense, and I'm sure there are plenty of 436 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 3: listeners who see themselves in most full of these scenarios, definitely, 437 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 3: no matter where they are in their career journey. 438 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 4: Early, middle, early, yep. 439 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 3: So now I want to talk a little bit about 440 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 3: a very best of both worlds centered topic, which is 441 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 3: that you talk about how there's some challenges that a little. 442 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 4: Bit unique to women in the workplace. Yes, so can 443 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 4: you share a little bit about that. 444 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 5: I'm so glad you're talking about this. And everyone ignores 445 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 5: that chapter in the book. So I have a chapter 446 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 5: in the book that's called for the Girls, and really 447 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 5: what it is about, and it's not just for girls. 448 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 5: I think it's for anybody, and especially men should read this. 449 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 5: But what the chapter is really about is the things 450 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 5: that women in particular, and I'm a woman, so I 451 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 5: speak to that go through at work. And the first 452 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 5: thing is that I've been working now almost thirty years. 453 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 5: And you know, most every woman who's been working five years, 454 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 5: ten years, twenty years, thirty years, they've gone through some 455 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 5: similar things. One is a glass ceiling right where you're 456 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 5: in an environment where women are not particularly welcome, or 457 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 5: that seat at the table is not particularly appreciated or assured. 458 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 5: I think the second piece of that is just sexual harassment, 459 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 5: which at the beginning of my career, sexual harassment was blatant, 460 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 5: like for women who were in business ten years before me, it. 461 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: Was like promoted. 462 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 5: Now it's more insidious, where you know, you can't be 463 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 5: as blatant as you know to hit on someone in 464 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 5: the office. But there are ways where you can be 465 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 5: put in an environment which I call the gray, which 466 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 5: is there's some opacity. There's double meaning for most everything 467 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 5: where you're in a situation where it may be a 468 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 5: work thing, but someone may have ulterior motives or different 469 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 5: intentions for you. And this is something that's very unique 470 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 5: to women at work, and that women have to understand 471 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 5: how they navigate. And then there's all sorts of other stuff, 472 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 5: being pregnant at work, what happens after you have a 473 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 5: baby at work, what happens if you're dating someone at 474 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 5: work in all those scenarios. So I have a lot 475 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 5: of opinion about it. I don't really think about my 476 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 5: gender a whole lot in my job, and I love that. 477 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 5: And I don't think your gender should help you or 478 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 5: hurt you at work. I do think understanding the things 479 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 5: that your gender brings you is really important for women. 480 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 5: It's very often a sense of empathy, it's a sense 481 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 5: of vulnerability, it's an ability to communicate, and I think 482 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 5: it's important to harness those skills to be most successful 483 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 5: as it relates to being a woman at work. There 484 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 5: are things that are disadvantages to women at work, which 485 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 5: is one is we tend to do all the work 486 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 5: at work and do all the work at home. And 487 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 5: how do you do the best of both worlds? Like 488 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 5: that's tough? How do you navigate your second shift versus 489 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 5: your first shift? But I do think it's important that 490 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 5: women recognize same as when you encounter our problem, like 491 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 5: where am I? What are the advantages to me in 492 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 5: this situation? What are the disadvantages? And where do I 493 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 5: want to get to and how can I navigate to 494 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 5: get there? 495 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 3: Definitely tricky territory, and I was very excited to say 496 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 3: that you included that chapter in your book. We're going 497 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 3: to take another quick break and I'll be right back 498 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:20,479 Speaker 3: with one more sort of related question. All right, we 499 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 3: are back, and you mentioned it briefly, but obviously sometimes 500 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: men add to their family as well, but maternity leave 501 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 3: is still primarily taken more by women, although increasingly by 502 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 3: both genders. I also feel like a lot of people 503 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 3: find this podcast just as they're about to maybe enter 504 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 3: maternity le for the first time, and it just seems 505 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 3: so scary. Do you have tips for that very special 506 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 3: situation of someone who's left the workforce for maybe a 507 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: few months and is coming back, like how to steal 508 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 3: themselves out? Yeah, tell me about your thoughts there. 509 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: I talk a lot about this in the chapter. 510 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 5: And look, coming back to work after you've been on 511 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 5: maternity leave is a really apprehensive time. It's apprehensive for 512 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 5: who's going to take care of your baby. It's apprehensive 513 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 5: in terms of what's expected of you now at work. 514 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 5: You've just come off this time where you've you know, 515 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 5: I know when I had my kids. 516 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: You're kind of. 517 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 5: Isolated in a little bubble and it's a really magical time, 518 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 5: and then you're kind of back out into the world 519 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,719 Speaker 5: and you feel a little fragile. So it's also you know, 520 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 5: it's an apprehensive time for who you are as a 521 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 5: woman and how you're feeling, and you can often, I think, 522 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 5: feel really fragile and uncertain, and it's important to honor that, 523 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 5: but also it's important not to let that hold you back. 524 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 5: I get a lot of questions in my DMS about 525 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 5: re entering the workforce after taking a maternity leave or 526 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 5: taking a break, and the first thing is, hold your 527 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 5: head high and do what you have to do. So 528 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 5: if you need to go to the pumping room and 529 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 5: you're carrying around all the equipment and it's like the 530 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 5: most like embarrassing, like, eh, I've all this stuff, I 531 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 5: got to refrigerate it, like it's cumbersome, But hold yourself 532 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 5: high and hold your head high that the fact of 533 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 5: caring for a child and producing milk for a baby 534 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,719 Speaker 5: does not make you any less viable in the office, 535 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 5: and you go into that next meeting as though nothing 536 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 5: had happened the fifteen minutes prior. So that would be 537 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,479 Speaker 5: my first piece of advice. My second piece of advice is, 538 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 5: I think a lot of times when women re enter 539 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 5: the workforce after having a kid or they come back 540 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 5: from eternity leave. You tend to want to overcompensate because 541 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 5: for some weird, screwed up reason, which is probably that 542 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 5: we're made to feel this way. You feel guilty that 543 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 5: you've been gone for three months, four months, whatever, and 544 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 5: then you start yourself on this track of you know, 545 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 5: you get up, you care for your baby, you care 546 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 5: for your fan, you commute, you get to work, or 547 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 5: you go on zoom and do work. Then you shut 548 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 5: it down, you shove food in your mouth, you say 549 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 5: hi to your partner, you care for your baby, and 550 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 5: then you get right back online again. I think that's 551 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 5: of the mistakes I've made in my life. I think 552 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 5: that's one of the greatest mistakes I made, which is 553 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 5: like my kids are in the tub, I'm on my phone. 554 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 5: Like answering work emails, like set boundaries early for yourself 555 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 5: and even and especially when it's scary for yourself, because 556 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 5: the reality work will take up every orifice of your 557 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 5: time if you let it. And this feeling that you're 558 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 5: accessible at night every night. Now, yes, some nights you 559 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 5: have to work late and you have a big project 560 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 5: and blah blah blah, but the fact that you're expected 561 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 5: to be available at night I have a huge issue with, 562 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 5: So my advice would be to set really clear boundaries 563 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 5: on that. 564 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: And then the third is when you're at work, make 565 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: the most of work. 566 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 5: So if you're there for six and a half hours, 567 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 5: crush the six and a half hours. If you're there 568 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 5: for nine hours, crush the nine hours. But at that 569 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 5: ninth hour or seventh hour, whatever hour, shut it down, 570 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 5: get out of there and go live your life. And 571 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,719 Speaker 5: I think sometimes when you have kids, you feel depleted 572 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 5: because you're supposed to be everything to everyone at all times, always, 573 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 5: and it's a lie, like it's it's not going to 574 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 5: work and the only person and the person who is 575 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 5: going to suffer and give up the most because. 576 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: Of that is you. 577 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 5: So just really making the boundary stick, not for anybody 578 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 5: else's reasons, but to preserve yourself, I think is really important. 579 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Erica, if I had we don't do 580 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 3: sound effects on this podcast, but like if we did, 581 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 3: I would have the standing ovation one be going a 582 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,239 Speaker 3: hut right now because I can't tell you what you 583 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 3: just said in the last two minutes is probably going 584 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 3: to change some people's life, Like I mean, you giving 585 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 3: that kind of permission from someone who is where you 586 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 3: are right now in leadership and everything. 587 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 4: It's just so incredibly valuable. 588 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 2: So thank you. 589 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 4: That was amazing. 590 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: Oh that's so nice. I have a quick story on that. 591 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: I know we're probably out of time. 592 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 4: But no, tell the quick story. 593 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 5: I had a woman who worked for me. This was 594 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 5: actually really interesting. I had two women who worked for 595 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 5: me recently, and one was a available at all times, 596 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 5: all hours of the night, like I'm like, working, working, working, working, working, 597 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 5: and the other woman was a working mom with two 598 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 5: kids I think under four. And what was interesting to 599 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 5: me is I stepped back and looked at them and 600 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 5: I said to myself, Wow, credit to the mom where 601 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 5: she shut down every night at five o'clock. And she 602 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 5: conditioned because she's shut down at five o'clock, you knew 603 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 5: you weren't going to get an answered until the following morning. 604 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 5: And I think we're all successfully and secure in a 605 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 5: way where you're afraid to do the action of shutting 606 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 5: at five. But all it did was train everybody else 607 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 5: not to bug her until eight thirty the following morning. 608 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 5: Versus the woman who was always available, she was disappointing 609 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 5: people because they were like, you're always available, why aren't 610 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 5: you available to me now? And the reality is, when 611 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 5: I stepped back and looked at these women, the working mom, 612 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 5: I think worked probably forty fifty percent of the time 613 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 5: as the other woman, but got as much done and 614 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 5: did it with greater discipline. So I think there's this 615 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 5: fallacy like the more you work, the more you work. 616 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 5: Like I don't believe that at all. I think you 617 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 5: need to make the most of the time you have 618 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 5: and you have to be a maniac about that time. 619 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 5: But beyond that, you've got to go live your life, 620 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 5: and I think you can be fabulously successful with that. 621 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 4: That is amazing. 622 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 3: Well, one last thing before we go, oh well, other 623 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 3: than you telling everybody, of course, all about where they 624 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 3: can find everything, we'll get to that. But we share 625 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 3: a love of the week every week on this podcast. 626 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 3: I hope your team share that with you, but if not, you. 627 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: Can They didn't. 628 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 3: They didn't, Okay, So it can be off the cuff, 629 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 3: and I will have to go first because I will 630 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 3: give you time to give yours and okay, I just 631 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 3: thought of mine. 632 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 4: That didn't take too long. Okay, But it can be 633 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 4: a product. 634 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 3: It can be like a season, a beverage, a shoot, 635 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 3: like I don't care, a book whatever. 636 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 4: Okay, So mine is I had. 637 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 3: I don't get a lot of patient gifts because I 638 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 3: don't know, like it's just not necessarily in the culture 639 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: what I do. Plus, I take care of patients for 640 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 3: so many years and it's not like they're aging out 641 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 3: for that long. But somebody was going to college and 642 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 3: the mom gave me a lu Lavo candle and it 643 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: was just I mean, obviously that's a lux gift and 644 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 3: I would not expect a patient to give me that, 645 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 3: but like, it was just so nice and I have 646 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: it on my desk and now every time I smell it, 647 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 3: I just feel this gratitude for like the privilege about 648 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 3: knowing I don't know, it was awesome. 649 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 4: So that is my love of the week. 650 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: Oh I love that. That's a great love of the week. 651 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: My love of the week. When is this coming out? 652 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 4: I think it's in like two in mid September. 653 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: Let's say mid September, okay, or end. 654 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 4: Of September something like that. Sorry I should know that, but. 655 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: Okay, my love of the week. 656 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 5: Well you I'll tell you this one and then you 657 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 5: can tell me if it's too dated. Okay, So my 658 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 5: love of the week is I've been watching in. 659 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: The US Open. 660 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 5: I love to watch tennis. It is the most inspiring sport. 661 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 5: I think it's one of those sports where the female 662 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 5: athletes are even better than the men athletes. 663 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 1: Like it's so fun to watch. 664 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 5: And there's this announcer, this Australian woman named I think 665 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 5: her name is Renee Stubbs, and I had never heard 666 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 5: of her before. I'd never seen her before, I didn't 667 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 5: know anything about her, but I loved her attitude. She 668 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 5: was on the broadcast and I think she's a former 669 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 5: tennis player herself and a former coach. And everyone was 670 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 5: talking like all nice and the platitudes about like oh, 671 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 5: Coco golf had lost to Emma Navarro and. 672 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: Everyone's like, Coco so great, Coco so great. 673 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 5: And she was like, yeah, like, I don't think she 674 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 5: had the confidence and her swing wasn't high enough, and 675 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 5: and I loved that she had the balls, I guess 676 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 5: for a lack of a better word, to speak her 677 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 5: mind and with such clarity and specificity. 678 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 1: So she's my love of the week. 679 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 4: I love it. 680 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 3: That's not going to be dated, that's everlasting. That's evergreen 681 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 3: right there. 682 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: So that's perfect. 683 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: Plus I just love the image of you like watching 684 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 3: sports and listening to the commentary and like with what 685 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 3: all you know and what you've built, like your analysis 686 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 3: of it. 687 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: Oh, it's so fun. 688 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 5: So I DMed her and I was like, will you 689 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 5: come do I do these like daily work videos? And 690 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 5: I'm like, will you come do the daily work videos 691 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 5: with me? And she said yes. 692 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: So I was like, that's so fun. That is so amazing, 693 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: double love of the week. 694 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 3: Super super cool. Well, this has been so much fun. 695 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 3: I'm serious, I'm going to like play that part on 696 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 3: a loop. That ending part, it was just so perfect. 697 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 3: Good good, And tell our listeners where they can find 698 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 3: your book. Remind us all of the title one more time, 699 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 3: and just where they can find more about you. 700 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 5: Okay, great. The book is called Nobody Cares About your Career. 701 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 5: You can find it wherever books are sold. And I 702 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 5: did the audio book, so if you are a busy 703 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 5: woman and you don't have a time to read a book, 704 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 5: which I would totally understand, you can just listen to it. 705 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: So I think it's a good listen. I'm I'm biased, obviously. 706 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,959 Speaker 5: You can find me at Erica, which is Erka or 707 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 5: at Erica Underscore. I'm at Erica on Instagram and then 708 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 5: on TikTok at Erica Underscore. 709 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: You can find me on LinkedIn. 710 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 4: Amazing, what amazing handles you have. That is great. 711 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,720 Speaker 1: I worked hard for the handles. 712 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 4: You deserve them. Thank you so much for coming on. 713 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for having me. 714 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 2: Well we are back. Sarah did a great interview there 715 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: with Erica Arizbadan, who is the former CEO of Barstool Sports, 716 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 2: the author of the book Nobody Cares About Your Career. 717 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 2: Lots of great advice there. So this question is from 718 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 2: a listener who is considering hiring a career coach. She says, 719 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 2: have either of you ever used one? Do you have 720 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,399 Speaker 2: thoughts on them? And what kind of role they could 721 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 2: play in career growth. The context is that she is 722 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 2: currently in a midpoint in her career. She's been in 723 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 2: law for about fifteen years out of the baby years, 724 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 2: her kids are in school, she is free of student loans, 725 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 2: and she is still under forty. Wow, she's accomplished a lot. 726 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 2: It's an exciting prospect to have things feel open, but 727 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 2: she's wondering what she should do if she needs to 728 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 2: find her passion or find ways to maximize her current role. 729 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 2: She seems to get a lot of ads for career 730 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 2: coaches through professional organizations and podcast feeds LinkedIn wherever she 731 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 2: is on social media. So she's curious if we have 732 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 2: any insights or experience with coaches, what they might be 733 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 2: able to offer in the quest for career happiness. Her 734 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 2: instinct is skepticism, but it's good to be curious. Sarah, 735 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 2: what do you think? 736 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 4: Yeah? I have a mix as well. 737 00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 3: I think part of it is, are you out of 738 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 3: place where you feel like really exploring what you want 739 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 3: with another person in scheduled sessions with specific exercise would 740 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 3: be helpful for you? And would you be unable to 741 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 3: do that work in a maybe less expensive context. If so, 742 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 3: this might be something to explore. I would be aware 743 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 3: of any coach who has any part of their platform 744 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 3: in teaching others to coach. I just that really scares 745 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 3: me because it gets very pyramidy. Or a coach who 746 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 3: wants to tell you how to kick butt in your 747 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 3: field but has left that field to coach specifically. Maybe 748 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 3: that's okay if they're clearly in a later phase of life, 749 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 3: like Listen, they put in thirty awesome years and they 750 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 3: accomplished great things and now they've moved on to coaching. 751 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 3: But if it's like, no, they did that for five 752 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 3: years and now they're coaching, I think there's some concern 753 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 3: sometimes to be found. Again, this is not universal. I 754 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 3: mean I can think of some specific people who do 755 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 3: things more in the coaching realm who maybe have specific 756 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 3: protocols or things they've developed to share that can be 757 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 3: super super valuable. But yeah, I just think you have 758 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 3: to be a little bit careful. Definitely talk to others 759 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 3: who have worked with said coaches if you can, Like 760 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 3: a great coach should be able to even offer not 761 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 3: just testimonials on their website, but maybe like, oh you 762 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 3: can chat with this other person in your field and 763 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 3: see if it was helpful for them, and then just 764 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 3: always reevaluate. Hopefully you don't have to pay a ton 765 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 3: of upfront costs, so if you invest and you go 766 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 3: to a couple sessions and it's not helpful, then you 767 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,959 Speaker 3: can decide that maybe to go another avenue, either finding 768 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 3: another coach or doing something different. 769 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we get a lot of pitches from coaches, and 770 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 2: I think we are very very wary of most of them, 771 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of like up selling and these 772 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 2: sort of things like you have to buy this package 773 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 2: and then you have to buy this other package, and 774 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 2: it's more about the coach as a guru as opposed 775 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 2: to what they are going to do to help you. 776 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 2: And if you are bothering to pay for this, it 777 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 2: really should be all about what they're going to do 778 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 2: to help you, so as opposed to I don't know, 779 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 2: you all stand around and worship this particular coach in 780 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 2: their guru status. So yeah, I'm pretty skeptical as well. 781 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 2: It can work, just you know, I would definitely only 782 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 2: go through like personal recommendations of someone who's seen really 783 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 2: good practical results, concrete results as a real result of 784 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 2: working with the person I do. I want to suggest 785 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 2: one other option though, for this person, which is that 786 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 2: I know somebody who was thinking, like do I need 787 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 2: a career coach whatever, And what she realized is that 788 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 2: she knew what she needed to do and like the 789 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 2: exercises she should think about, and like the what she 790 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 2: should investigate, and like different things she could do to 791 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 2: help in her career. She just needed someone to push 792 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 2: her to do it. But if that's the case, then 793 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 2: maybe what you need is an accountability partner or a 794 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 2: goal group or sort of mastermind group of folks. Maybe 795 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 2: you can find other people who are also ambitious, who 796 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 2: are in similar or stages of life with you, who 797 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 2: might meet up regularly to discuss your ideas and next steps. 798 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 2: And so you know, not only would that be like 799 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 2: lower cost, I mean just in the sense that you're 800 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 2: like getting together with people, it could also be a 801 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 2: lot of fun. Like it could actually build your professional 802 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 2: network in a very good way. Like these people would 803 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,919 Speaker 2: be kind of your cheering squad and you're the cheering 804 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 2: squad for them. You'd be very close together. So I'd 805 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 2: throw that out there as an idea as well. 806 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 3: I love it, and hopefully something like that if it's 807 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 3: a collection of your peers, wouldn't be a crazy financial 808 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 3: investment either, so bonus, Yeah, exactly. 809 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 2: All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds. 810 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 2: Sarah has been interviewing Erica Arizbadan, who's the former CEO 811 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 2: of Barstool Sports. We will be back next week with 812 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 2: more on making work and life fit together. 813 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening. 814 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 815 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram and you can. 816 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 2: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 817 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 2: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us 818 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 2: next time for more on making work and life work 819 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 2: together