Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woka f Daily with
Speaker 1: me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from my Long Island bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: I get into a conversation today with our friend Jonathan
Speaker 1: Metzel on this Woke Wednesday that is just really about
Speaker 1: every single amount of fuck shit that we are going
Speaker 1: through UM and what it feels like and the experience
Speaker 1: of kind of living through one apocalyptic week after another UM,
Speaker 1: but also really talking about the neuroses right that we
Speaker 1: are seeing of this Republican Party UM, around the insurrection,
Speaker 1: around their denial, talking about the fact that we are
Speaker 1: using our ability to share space with one another and
Speaker 1: do so in a civilized manner with the purchase or
Speaker 1: impending purchase I should say, of Twitter by Elon Musk.
Speaker 1: And you know, folks, it's funny because I've been talking
Speaker 1: to Jonathan for as well as you guys know, every
Speaker 1: every week for the past two years, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's amazing because in the beginning, I just want
Speaker 1: to offer this to you. In the beginning, we thought
Speaker 1: that what we were initially experiencing with being in this
Speaker 1: global health pandemic was like the worst that things could get.
Speaker 1: But as time has gone on, I don't think we
Speaker 1: realized at that time how good we fucking had it.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean to be flippant, trust me about
Speaker 1: the people that have lost their lives to COVID. I
Speaker 1: in fact lost my step grandmother to COVID in November
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, So I'm not trying to be flippant,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying in terms of we thought that that
Speaker 1: was the worst that it could get. It never occurred
Speaker 1: to us that, as we were, you know, buying up
Speaker 1: every bit of toilet paper and hand sanitizer, that once
Speaker 1: a vaccine was available, that we would have people that
Speaker 1: would protest it and protest hospitals, that we would get
Speaker 1: to a place that even though we learned much much
Speaker 1: later thanks to the lack of journalistic integrity of people
Speaker 1: like Bob Woodward and others who decided to sell a
Speaker 1: book as opposed to allow the American people to hear
Speaker 1: from Donald Trump himself that co COVID nineteen was in
Speaker 1: fact not a hoax, that it was lethal, that it
Speaker 1: was airborne, and that it was much more dangerous than
Speaker 1: the flu. But instead he decided to hawk a book
Speaker 1: the same way that the Kevin McCarthy tapes were just released,
Speaker 1: and it just in time once again for New York
Speaker 1: Times journalists to be able to sell a book as
Speaker 1: opposed to airing out the fucking dirty launcher of the
Speaker 1: Republican Party. I'm watching the news this week, and if
Speaker 1: you are somebody who lives in Pennsylvania, please do put
Speaker 1: in the comment section whether or not you had it
Speaker 1: in you to stomach the debate for the Republican primary
Speaker 1: for governor. But I'm watching local news here on Long
Speaker 1: Island and just the fact that we are two years
Speaker 1: or moved from the twenty twenty election and you have
Speaker 1: candidates for the state of Pennsylvania to be like folks
Speaker 1: who are still uttering the big lie. And I just
Speaker 1: watched this segment where, you know, another reporter said, you know,
Speaker 1: it's Republicans in private to each other know that this
Speaker 1: is crazy, but they're so just they're just so scared, physically,
Speaker 1: fearful of their base. Well, you're the ones that created
Speaker 1: the monster. So do you think that I'm going to
Speaker 1: feel fucking bad for you now that the monsters that
Speaker 1: you've created now want to bite your head off if
Speaker 1: you don't go along with the lies. That you brought
Speaker 1: to their front door. That now you have a situation
Speaker 1: where your base is totally and completely out of control,
Speaker 1: where if you were to step out of the line,
Speaker 1: which means step out of favor with Donald Trump, then
Speaker 1: you could be potentially physically assaulted or worse. You know,
Speaker 1: they were going back to when Mitt Romney was verbally
Speaker 1: accosted and I think jostled around a bit for his
Speaker 1: votes recently, you know, during the Trump administration, voting to
Speaker 1: impeach and all of these things. And you're saying to
Speaker 1: me yourself, and I'm sorry, he didn't vote to impeach.
Speaker 1: He voted to go along, you know, to certify the
Speaker 1: elections and all of these things. But he was accosted.
Speaker 1: And so you have these people that want to do
Speaker 1: tough talk, right like they did during the Judge Katanchi
Speaker 1: Brown Jackson hearing. They want to bolster up their chest
Speaker 1: and scream and spit and do all that shit. But
Speaker 1: they won't do that with their own base because they're
Speaker 1: afraid of those gun toten motherfuckers. Right. They're afraid that
Speaker 1: they're going to catch a case quite literally, And I'm
Speaker 1: just like, I wish you fucking would and yeah, I
Speaker 1: said what I said, because frankly, they are the ones
Speaker 1: to blame for the situation that we are in because
Speaker 1: much alike right, reports have come out about what exactly
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell thought after the insurrection, what exactly Kevin McCarthy
Speaker 1: thought after the insurrection, And if they either one of
Speaker 1: them had control over right they're members, then they should
Speaker 1: have circled the wagons on the Republican Party, regardless of
Speaker 1: how despicable I think that they are. And Alice Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: like the Republicans could have solved their own fucking problem right,
Speaker 1: and they could have recognized that, you know what, if
Speaker 1: we allowed this to persist outside of the primary, outside
Speaker 1: of you know, his first term, if we allowed this
Speaker 1: to persist, then our party is going to be beholden
Speaker 1: to this man, to his image for decades to come.
Speaker 1: They had a moment right where they could have said
Speaker 1: where Mitch McConnell could have laid down the fucking law
Speaker 1: and said, we are voting to impeach period. If you
Speaker 1: care about this country, if you care about the future
Speaker 1: of this party, that is what we are doing, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to ensure that we're able to cast
Speaker 1: this vote in secrecy if in fact, you are fearful
Speaker 1: for yourself, and I believe that the Democrats will go
Speaker 1: along with it. But this is what we need to do.
Speaker 1: There were so many avenues right for Republicans to actually
Speaker 1: do the right thing. But what we need to realize
Speaker 1: is that they had no desire to because Donald Trump
Speaker 1: is them and they are Donald Trump. And I keep
Speaker 1: listening to these analysts and reporters, you know, talk about, oh,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is the leader of the party for now. Folks,
Speaker 1: you have a twice impeached, right criminal ass president that
Speaker 1: is under investigation in multiple states, where at least one
Speaker 1: still because the Manhattan da is chicken shit. So at
Speaker 1: least right you have the continuation of the investigation that
Speaker 1: is happening in Georgia. And maybe Merritt Garland is awake,
Speaker 1: maybe he's not. I'm assuming that Merritt Garland is still
Speaker 1: in a coma. But and this is the man that
Speaker 1: you continue to rally behind. So when folks say to me,
Speaker 1: he's the leader of the party for now, who do
Speaker 1: you think the leader of the party is going to be?
Speaker 1: Right now? You know what I said earlier this week
Speaker 1: with regard to Rhonda Santis is what I believed over
Speaker 1: the weekend. I do think that Rhonda Santis is absolutely
Speaker 1: going to run for president regardless of if Donald Trump runs,
Speaker 1: and I think that the entire party will get behind
Speaker 1: the more cunning, politically savvy, and strategic Donald Trump, which
Speaker 1: is Rhonda Santist. And I think that if Rhonda Santists
Speaker 1: were to win, it would be a decision to allow
Speaker 1: Donald Trump to say that he's going to run, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna run, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna run, so that
Speaker 1: he can continue to grift off of his followers and
Speaker 1: then he will turn over the baton to Rhonda Santis.
Speaker 1: I only believe that he does that if there is
Speaker 1: no indictment that comes down, because the only way that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump could protect himself, and the only reason why
Speaker 1: he wanted to be president in the first fucking place,
Speaker 1: was so that he wouldn't he would be free from persecution.
Speaker 1: So the reality is is that all of this is
Speaker 1: one big grift. Whether you're Rhonda Santists and you know
Speaker 1: yunken in Virginia who are narrowing our public school curriculum
Speaker 1: in their state to a place where they're only bringing
Speaker 1: in one textbook, and it just so happens to be
Speaker 1: one that they're both financially and politically tied to. Whether
Speaker 1: it's that grift or whether it's the way that Donald
Speaker 1: Trump used the Trump Hotel in Washington, DC as a
Speaker 1: revolving fucking door for foreign dignitaries as well as members
Speaker 1: of his own cabinet to throw their events right at cost. So,
Speaker 1: you know, folks, we look at all of these things
Speaker 1: and I am just struck by the fact that no
Speaker 1: political party in this country has any gravitas. The Republican
Speaker 1: Party completely capitulated to Donald Trump, to Donald Trump's whims.
Speaker 1: The Democratic Party refuses to actually go to the lengths
Speaker 1: of standing up for our democracy and persecuting Donald Trump
Speaker 1: to the fullest extent of the law because they're afraid
Speaker 1: of the political pushback. I don't know which one is worse,
Speaker 1: to be honest, but right now I have such a
Speaker 1: distaste for Democrats, for the Democratic establishment for this reason,
Speaker 1: because you wouldn't be able to continue to refer to
Speaker 1: Donald Trump as the head of the party if Donald
Speaker 1: Trump had been indicted, right because they can only guide
Speaker 1: this so fucking far, and if he's thrown in jail
Speaker 1: or on trial. You think that he's going to be
Speaker 1: able to run for office? I don't think so, right.
Speaker 1: You think that if that is playing every single day
Speaker 1: on primetime television, that Donald Trump is going to get
Speaker 1: away with running for the presidency in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: And so again Democrats have his solve for their problem
Speaker 1: that they refuse to use because I don't want to
Speaker 1: be I don't want to be seen by the people
Speaker 1: who hate me and literally would kill me, who say
Speaker 1: the most hot, disgusting shit about me. I don't want
Speaker 1: them to react. Well, guess what, folks, they're reacting anyway.
Speaker 1: So the question is what is your reaction going to be? Right? Like,
Speaker 1: are we just going to sit around, right and dick
Speaker 1: around until everything is gone, until we don't even recognize
Speaker 1: this country? Because I barely recognize it now. Right, Everything
Speaker 1: that I have loved, that I have worked for is
Speaker 1: pretty much gone or on its way out. And so
Speaker 1: how do you continue to have, like I keep talking
Speaker 1: about that mustard seat of hope when your own political
Speaker 1: party is acting like a bunch of punks and think
Speaker 1: that they're going to take the moral ground and like
Speaker 1: that's going to serve them it's not. So we need
Speaker 1: to figure out as a party who the fuck we
Speaker 1: want to be when we grow up and stop acting
Speaker 1: like a bunch of little kids. Stop acting like a
Speaker 1: bunch of toddlers that are afraid of the bully in
Speaker 1: the park. Right, you need to use every single weapon
Speaker 1: that you have at your disposal, right, the brilliant legal
Speaker 1: minds that are in this country, to look like you
Speaker 1: are fucking fighting. Otherwise we lose everything for good. Because
Speaker 1: I don't know of any country that has lost their
Speaker 1: democracy and then got it back within you know, a
Speaker 1: year or two. That shit takes decades, decades that we
Speaker 1: don't have and our kids shouldn't have to suffer through.
Speaker 1: Coming up next, my conversation with our in house doctor,
Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of Dying of Whiteness. Friends, when
Speaker 1: it is Wednesday, I'm always so grateful to be joined
Speaker 1: by our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of
Speaker 1: Dying of Whiteness, which in fact, we are dying of
Speaker 1: each and every day in America since roughly twenty sixteen. Jonathan,
Speaker 1: biggest news this week? I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 1: we keep track because there's so much news every goddamn week.
Speaker 1: But big news this week that Elon Musk has made
Speaker 1: an offer to Twitter to buy it for forty four
Speaker 1: million dollars after the fact it still has to be
Speaker 1: approved by shareholders. It still has to be approved by
Speaker 1: the board, but everybody stands, including the CEO current CEO,
Speaker 1: to make hundreds of millions of dollars. However, right after
Speaker 1: the announcement was made, hashtag I'm leaving Twitter or Twitter
Speaker 1: fail was trending on this site. And people are really
Speaker 1: concerned about Twitter turning into a cesspool of toxicity given
Speaker 1: the fact that Elon Musk is probably one of the
Speaker 1: biggest human trolls that I have seen. He's tweeted things
Speaker 1: like coronavirus is fake. He has tweeted things against the
Speaker 1: LGBTQ community, particularly charged challenging trans trans identity and trans
Speaker 1: people's existence by saying pronouns are bullshit. What do you
Speaker 1: make of folks reaction? And what is your reaction? Because
Speaker 1: both you and I are avid Twitter users for our
Speaker 1: work to lift up our voice, what do you make
Speaker 1: of this decision and how it honestly can potentially impact
Speaker 1: people's emotional and mental health on this platform that is
Speaker 1: already egregious in a lot of ways. Well, I've been
Speaker 1: dying to say this, and I couldn't say it in
Speaker 1: public before, But now I can say coronavirus is real.
Speaker 1: And you know, I was blocked before people didn't listen
Speaker 1: to cardib But now I can just say that in public.
Speaker 1: I can say I can say anything I went to
Speaker 1: public because free speech, no one, no one, everybody has
Speaker 1: the right to free speech. I can also say that
Speaker 1: slavery was horrible for enslaved people. I couldn't say that before,
Speaker 1: but now we can say whatever we want. I think
Speaker 1: that gender fluidity is a logical response to a very
Speaker 1: uncertain world. I can say that everybody's going to embrace
Speaker 1: me for all these opinions. So there's all these things
Speaker 1: we can say now that we couldn't say before that
Speaker 1: I think are are great. You know, the binary system,
Speaker 1: that's just how our brains are devised. But it turns
Speaker 1: out the life world is non binary. So let's embrace
Speaker 1: non binary approaches, and so all these opinions are going
Speaker 1: to be celebrated I think by by the open. Yeah
Speaker 1: it's a total bunch of horseshit, obviously, Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: like free speech for who right, And so that's kind
Speaker 1: of the issue is like the people are yelling free
Speaker 1: speech are the same people who are trying to, like, um,
Speaker 1: are trying to like make figure out what you can
Speaker 1: teach in a college class, you know, or um, what
Speaker 1: you can talk about or whatever. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just like this just the snarkiness and me like,
Speaker 1: I want to go write a book that's like, you know,
Speaker 1: Wanking with Wood by Pinocchio or something like that and
Speaker 1: sell it at disney World or something, you know, Like
Speaker 1: I I just like it's it's so the so the
Speaker 1: the bs ness of the world has never been on
Speaker 1: display more than right now. And so the question is
Speaker 1: like what do you do? And the irony is, you know,
Speaker 1: you and I like we love doing gloom like that's
Speaker 1: our thing, right, I mean I don't love it's not
Speaker 1: actually Okay now, I'm just kidding. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people I like. I like light things. It so happens
Speaker 1: that we're living in the midst of the apocalypse, though,
Speaker 1: name one light thing you like. I like plants, Okay,
Speaker 1: when knows that I am a huge plant person. That's
Speaker 1: how I keep my sanity. Yeah, I mean I play
Speaker 1: softball weekend. I had a good soft I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: in a batting slump. So if any of our viewers
Speaker 1: have any yeah I can't I can't hit the ball
Speaker 1: right now. But but but let me just say what
Speaker 1: I was going to say is, you know, but I
Speaker 1: guess the point about doom and gloom is this um
Speaker 1: like there's a fanta see that things are unregulated. Like
Speaker 1: that's what's behind this whole Twitter fantasy and other fantasy.
Speaker 1: Is like if everybody just has a gun and an
Speaker 1: opinion and equal access to the conversation, the world's going
Speaker 1: to be a better place. And and really what it
Speaker 1: means is that if everyone has has that really horrible
Speaker 1: oppressive ideologies rise to the top, and we end up
Speaker 1: reinforcing hierarchies that are baked into the cake of the
Speaker 1: of the society and have been for you know, since,
Speaker 1: you know, for centuries now and stuff like that, and
Speaker 1: so in a way, what it does is just reaffies
Speaker 1: all the really bad shit and silences any kind of
Speaker 1: protest or or or alternate way of being in a way,
Speaker 1: and so part of the issue is like something like
Speaker 1: Twitter need I mean, I was just thinking, how great
Speaker 1: would it be if there was a public utility that
Speaker 1: was based on letting people communicate and communicate with each
Speaker 1: other that was then also regulated to make sure there
Speaker 1: weren't threats or hate speech or other things that were
Speaker 1: like blatantly you know, blatantly un un Christian to be
Speaker 1: up on that and stuff like that. And so, M
Speaker 1: so that's kind of what we need. And and so
Speaker 1: I just think this idea of like everything being unregulated,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just I grew up in a
Speaker 1: world where like libertarianism was always a thing, but it
Speaker 1: was it was a fringe thing. And the fact that
Speaker 1: we're like moving into libertarian not just communication, but health
Speaker 1: and self defense and everything else like that, it just
Speaker 1: it just seems to me like a slippery slope toward anarchy.
Speaker 1: And more than that, it reinforces, it reinforces the bad
Speaker 1: stuff that that regulation is designed to to keep people
Speaker 1: away from so they can live happy, productive lives. You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I have been thinking about
Speaker 1: since this news you know, dropped, because you know, one
Speaker 1: I had never Jonathan until last week experienced re really
Speaker 1: hurtful UM pushback on Twitter. And I mean that I
Speaker 1: had joined UM MSNBC Reverend Owl Show. And this was
Speaker 1: before when we thought that him buying Twitter was not
Speaker 1: going to happen. And so for the first time, I'm
Speaker 1: speaking publicly about Elon Musk and how I think that
Speaker 1: he's a transphobe and a bigot and all of all
Speaker 1: of the things that he has put on display with
Speaker 1: his Twitter account and in interviews that he's given. And
Speaker 1: I got so much hate that and I you know,
Speaker 1: and it was and it was more than I'd ever
Speaker 1: gotten before. But I realized as I had, you know,
Speaker 1: a mini breakdown during the week, that wow, this was
Speaker 1: really hurtful, right, Like, and that's the point, right The
Speaker 1: point is to get at you. The point is to
Speaker 1: devalue you, to dehumanize you, and all of these things.
Speaker 1: And then with this sale moving forward, I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: so is this going to be every day? Like? Is
Speaker 1: this going to be that one picture shot of what
Speaker 1: happened to me? By speaking out against Elon Musk and
Speaker 1: then apparently recognizing that, you know, white men love this
Speaker 1: man like he is some type of deity, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: the same way that they have this love affair with
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, like he gets to do whatever he wants.
Speaker 1: And I'm starting to realize that, you know, for right wingers,
Speaker 1: these conservative white cis gender men, whether or not there
Speaker 1: they have any economic status at all, their desire in
Speaker 1: life is to be able to walk through it and
Speaker 1: do whatever the fuck they want without accountability. And Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and Elon Musk are the picture perfect examples of that,
Speaker 1: which is funny because most of us believe that white
Speaker 1: men walk around and do whatever the fuck they want anyway,
Speaker 1: regardless of their fame or economic status. And so what
Speaker 1: do you think that it is that has people take
Speaker 1: up for the likes of a and a mosque? I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there's such a strong under and overcurrent of like,
Speaker 1: um giving voice to racial resentment in a way, and
Speaker 1: so the kind of sense of your aggrieved, you've been oppressed,
Speaker 1: you've been oppressed by villain the blank usually government or
Speaker 1: wokeness you know, or whatever the hellum, and and and
Speaker 1: so it kind of gives voice, It makes it okay.
Speaker 1: He kind of profits unimagined, unimaginably by giving voice to
Speaker 1: that aggrieved sense of kind of white victimhood. And I
Speaker 1: think that's that's that's kind of it, you know, and
Speaker 1: that that combines both those guys. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: in this case, but I mean, Jonathan, how is it
Speaker 1: that that that like rich white men are the ones
Speaker 1: that are giving voice to the victimhood, Like, isn't that ridiculous? No,
Speaker 1: the whole thing is absurd. And the thing is like like,
Speaker 1: like was Twitter really that regulated? Like people really he
Speaker 1: couldn't say, like, you know, they couldn't say winking with
Speaker 1: wood by Pinocchio. That was the one thing you couldn't
Speaker 1: say on Twitter. I'm just going to try to make
Speaker 1: that a profitable thing. But but but no, I think
Speaker 1: that you know, it wasn't that regulated, right, But finding
Speaker 1: like oh I'm oppressed by this fauci Is Hitler and
Speaker 1: all these kind of things, like you know, you just
Speaker 1: you find the thing that is oppressing your freedom and
Speaker 1: your liberty and then you blow that thing up. I
Speaker 1: mean it's a pretty standard thing, but it works, right,
Speaker 1: I Mean, they can see their works. Oh we're oppressed.
Speaker 1: We're oppressed by this thing that I didn't even know
Speaker 1: as a thing and I don't even encounter it at
Speaker 1: all in my daily life ever. But but but I
Speaker 1: think that narrative of like being aggrieved by the way
Speaker 1: the world is turning away from you is a pretty
Speaker 1: powerful thing for people who can articulate that pretty well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I've certainly seen that in the stuff
Speaker 1: I do in my work, and yeah, so I think
Speaker 1: that's it. I don't think the content, I mean, consistency
Speaker 1: in the intent is not is not going to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we have a Jewish guy from
Speaker 1: South Africa and a guy who inherited a bunch of
Speaker 1: money from his dad, who was a Democrat supporting abortion
Speaker 1: and gun control until like fifteen years ago. Like, it's
Speaker 1: not like consistency is the message. It's more like people
Speaker 1: who give voice to that aggrieved sense can can pretty
Speaker 1: much get away with murder. And that that's kind of
Speaker 1: what we see. I mean literally, but let me ask you.
Speaker 1: Let me ask one thing, because like I don't I
Speaker 1: don't really care that much. But I lost a ton
Speaker 1: of Twitter followers overnight, I guess, And so are people
Speaker 1: quitting Twitter? Is it bots that are running? I think,
Speaker 1: I honestly, And and this was I asked like a
Speaker 1: couple of people because um Anna Navarro, like a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, folks who have hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 1: followers were tweeting that they had lost thousands. I lost
Speaker 1: I think to this point right now about three hundred
Speaker 1: and you know, and that's it's I think that it's
Speaker 1: bought sweeping. I think that it's really coincidental to have
Speaker 1: this announcement come out and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: people are losing thousands or hundreds of you know, of followers.
Speaker 1: Is it just a regular bot sweeping. I have no idea,
Speaker 1: but I have I have been gaining followers, and so
Speaker 1: I haven't lost anyone that I was following, right So
Speaker 1: I think that it's just that it's it's really going
Speaker 1: to be like what happens to the Forum. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be true. It is Twitter
Speaker 1: going to be so toxic, like it's not even worth
Speaker 1: the headache, you know. I mean that seems like that's
Speaker 1: a real possibility. Is that just the tone of Twitter
Speaker 1: is something that is so off putting to just the
Speaker 1: average person that um that it just becomes a place
Speaker 1: to go listen to like Trump and Babylon Bee and
Speaker 1: Alex Jones and all these kind of things. And so
Speaker 1: in a way, the possibility of just a total right
Speaker 1: wing takeover of this megaphone seems to me pretty high,
Speaker 1: and so I would I would just and in a
Speaker 1: way that kind of silences the voices. I mean, what
Speaker 1: you experience after TV, I bet will be the response.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if it will be the norm, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so the thing is two things. Number one is
Speaker 1: just pay attention to I mean, I've I don't know anything.
Speaker 1: I'm not an inside at all, and I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm very like I if it's up to me, we'd
Speaker 1: still be using atari pong, like I'm terrible with technology.
Speaker 1: But I will say watch to be watch if you're
Speaker 1: followed by like right wing stuff, I mean, that will
Speaker 1: be the issue. Is like I bet a lot of
Speaker 1: people like us will be followed by right wing stuff,
Speaker 1: and then every time we say, hey, I'm tying my shoe,
Speaker 1: then there'll be ten thousand people saying shoes, shoes or
Speaker 1: liberal shoot hard, you know that kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: so I just I would watch that because I would
Speaker 1: bet that it's going to have a massive silencing effect.
Speaker 1: And then for me, it's like, you know, health follow
Speaker 1: me on tender. I don't care like just I would
Speaker 1: be but this is you know, but that's one of
Speaker 1: the things too, is that we know right that these environments,
Speaker 1: these platforms were initially created I think out of good right,
Speaker 1: which was the desire to bring people together. For Twitter
Speaker 1: was to kind of create this town hall, you know,
Speaker 1: type of vibe where you can follow all of these people.
Speaker 1: I believe for me, Twitter at least is where I
Speaker 1: follow academics like yourself, where I follow you know, journalists
Speaker 1: and things like that. But you know, somebody had tweeted
Speaker 1: and had said something really powerful, which was love E J. Jones,
Speaker 1: and she said, you know, the thing with content creators
Speaker 1: is that unless you own the platform that you are on,
Speaker 1: you're always going to be beholden to somebody else, and
Speaker 1: you're going to be beholden to whoever, you know, whoever
Speaker 1: takes the ownership's stake. And so if you're not finding
Speaker 1: a way to get your own email address, to get
Speaker 1: the email addresses of the people that follow you to
Speaker 1: create and direct them elsewhere, then like this will just
Speaker 1: keep happening. And what is going to happen is that
Speaker 1: you know, you will have these major social media sites.
Speaker 1: We didn't like it when Meta took over Instagram and
Speaker 1: is like has tried to disrupt and kill tiktoku by
Speaker 1: hiring a right wing firm, Like, so, where what what
Speaker 1: does it mean when we live in a society where
Speaker 1: free speech and how it has evolved over time is
Speaker 1: actually I'm silenced, right because I've been thinking, Jonathan, and
Speaker 1: you know you do this work, like you know, Hitler
Speaker 1: didn't need social media, right, Like you know he had
Speaker 1: tens of millions of people following him by use of
Speaker 1: the media. While Hitler was killing millions of Jews, he
Speaker 1: was getting fucking you know, uh coverage in the New
Speaker 1: York Times Home and Garden section about the long walks
Speaker 1: that he likes to take. And so I wonder, you
Speaker 1: know why we know that Russia is still messing with
Speaker 1: our social media. We know these bots, we know what
Speaker 1: we believe, we know what Elon Musk wants to do
Speaker 1: with Twitter. What is what do you think that that
Speaker 1: means for our personal power and understanding how we utilize
Speaker 1: our voice, particularly at a time when we're watching our
Speaker 1: democracy crumble. Well, I mean, I think that's exactly right,
Speaker 1: that the bigger the issue is certainly personal. And I
Speaker 1: mean I don't know, I can't hardly, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have like signal on my phone and that telegram
Speaker 1: or telegraph or whatever on my phone, Like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't have time for that. Like you know, so
Speaker 1: there's only so many things to get people's email addresses.
Speaker 1: Would I don't know, I'm not doing I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1: Um you know, just meet me at Central Park at
Speaker 1: three o'clock or something like that. Yeah, yeah, but um,
Speaker 1: but I would say that the bigger the issue is personal,
Speaker 1: but it's also profoundly political. If you think about the
Speaker 1: role that Twitter plays, for example, in mobilizing political campaigns
Speaker 1: and Twitter ACTIVI in all the work of you know,
Speaker 1: I mean for better or worse, right, I mean, think
Speaker 1: about the Bernie Sanders you know, bullshit and stuff like
Speaker 1: that in the primary. But I'm saying like Twitter is
Speaker 1: like the it's not just any artery of communication. It's
Speaker 1: the one that is that is mostly used by political
Speaker 1: campaigns also and to mobilize things. And so I think
Speaker 1: the issue is also going to be what's the impact
Speaker 1: on our on our elections, on our politics, and and
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, it's kind of TVD there,
Speaker 1: but that's well, that's where also I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 1: I would be worried about that. Also, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like what does this mean for campaigns, for campaigns of
Speaker 1: people who aren't already incumbent and their name recognition might
Speaker 1: not be that great, or who are trying to create
Speaker 1: alliances between different kinds of people who aren't usually together.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, hope hopefully we figure that out.
Speaker 1: But it's just weird that there's a lot of money
Speaker 1: people have tried in like creating alternate social media platforms
Speaker 1: um and uh, and it just hasn't worked. So we'll
Speaker 1: have to see what happens. Yeah, I think that it.
Speaker 1: I mean what they are saying, at least by the
Speaker 1: Associated Press, the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg is that this takeover,
Speaker 1: like the sale will be done in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: the takeover Musk takeover would happen in twenty twenty three. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's like getting through mid terms potentially potentially um
Speaker 1: but then leading up to the presidential right to your
Speaker 1: you know, to your point. But again I say, is
Speaker 1: this an opportunity? Is this a time for us to
Speaker 1: really to realize that like what was supposed to be
Speaker 1: social platforms to bring us together have been weaponized And
Speaker 1: is it do we need even in this rise of
Speaker 1: you know of more technology, of you know, of oculus,
Speaker 1: of these spaces that you can you know, you can
Speaker 1: go into virtually of the metaverse and all of these things.
Speaker 1: Do we need to go back to just yeah, meet
Speaker 1: me in Central Park at three o'clock? Do we need
Speaker 1: to go back to just door knocking? In terms of
Speaker 1: political you know, get out the vote and connection to
Speaker 1: go back to where we started because these places, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're not going to be trolled if you go back
Speaker 1: to you know, knocking on doors. But we also live
Speaker 1: in a more violent time and think about like the
Speaker 1: pandemic for example, Like the power of disinformation that plays
Speaker 1: to people's fears and moments of crisis is deep. And
Speaker 1: so I think all of those things. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: we'll see how this goes. I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: it's just weird. Like if you think about the role,
Speaker 1: for better or worse that government played, like when we
Speaker 1: were growing up, or you know, people people had government
Speaker 1: jobs and people you know, think about how like the
Speaker 1: post office was never late and they delivered in snow
Speaker 1: and sleet and until yeah, and and healthcare could could
Speaker 1: you know, you could see the promise of things like
Speaker 1: something like medicare for all or a single payer system.
Speaker 1: That's that's a government healthcare system. I mean, the idea
Speaker 1: of kind of promoting equity in our society rests on
Speaker 1: somebody being in charge. But if it's every single person
Speaker 1: is out for themselves, it's great for gun sales, it's
Speaker 1: great for people who already have power, and it's terrible
Speaker 1: for everybody else. And I think we're seeing that in
Speaker 1: multiple ways, rhetorical and real and and so I think
Speaker 1: that's going to be the issue is how do you
Speaker 1: possibly make government or regulation or something like that, how
Speaker 1: do you how do you restore trust in that in
Speaker 1: the face of this when you don't have the you
Speaker 1: don't have the voice in a way. So it's it's
Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty. Um, it's pretty it's serious. It's pretty serious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty serious. Yeah. You know. I last, you know,
Speaker 1: last thing I will say to um, last question for
Speaker 1: you is you know again, I know that we talk
Speaker 1: every week and we try and be lighthearted in between
Speaker 1: our apocalyptic comments, because you know, I want people to
Speaker 1: continue listening to the show and not feel doom and gloom.
Speaker 1: But did they come for dooming gloom? Come for dooming
Speaker 1: bloom and Pinocchio jokes. But the heavy but seriously, the
Speaker 1: heaviness of the times that we are living, like every
Speaker 1: week just feels worse than the last, right, And so
Speaker 1: it's like, I, I don't know, like how we're supposed
Speaker 1: to be navigating this time when there feels like there
Speaker 1: is no light at the end of the tunnel. So
Speaker 1: I just want to know, you know, I know that
Speaker 1: you just wrapped um your semester, but uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the year with your students, what was there, what was
Speaker 1: the energy going, you know, going, you know, going out
Speaker 1: of this of this year. Imagine for young people particularly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's so much anxiety right now about what world are
Speaker 1: we entering and will the world still be there? Because
Speaker 1: they of course very much care about climate, they care
Speaker 1: about inequity, they care just that there's going to be
Speaker 1: a functioning economy which requires grown ups to like get
Speaker 1: along enough to like think that they're in the same system.
Speaker 1: So there's a tremendous amount of of anxiety right now
Speaker 1: in students at places like where I teach at Vanderbilt, certainly,
Speaker 1: and but but it's not like everybody's feeling doom right now.
Speaker 1: If you are a right winger, this is like, I
Speaker 1: mean Spanish fly floating in the air kind of momentum.
Speaker 1: This is this is the greatest thing that's ever happening.
Speaker 1: So if you're one of the people who's like the
Speaker 1: adoring crowds in a Lenny reference Stall movie, then this
Speaker 1: is like a great moment for you. And so it's
Speaker 1: it's really honestly just going to take remobilizing the majority
Speaker 1: of this country in a way that's effective in light
Speaker 1: of what are It's not like every week is bad.
Speaker 1: It's like every week follows from it just gets worse
Speaker 1: from the week before. So so we need a better
Speaker 1: a better strategy and in a way how to mobilize
Speaker 1: right now is really going to be the main the
Speaker 1: main issue. I mean, we're facing some pretty big things
Speaker 1: and just beyond all this stuff like like what what
Speaker 1: defines a democrat right now, as we're like nine months
Speaker 1: away from facing like this massive threat, they could even
Speaker 1: get much worse, much worse. Um, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: feel like we need a we need a narrative, a
Speaker 1: sap about how people are going to get together about this. Jonathan, Well,
Speaker 1: we'll continue to get together every week until somebody locks
Speaker 1: us up. No, they're not taking they're not learn morse code. No.
Speaker 1: I mean the thing is like I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make a zillion dollars with my Pinocchio book and then
Speaker 1: I'm going to buy DCP and A and then that'll
Speaker 1: be the That'll be ther Yeah. That love it. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll see you next week. Jonathan here's helping take care. Guys.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on Woke
Speaker 1: f As always, power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.