1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woka f Daily with 2 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from my Long Island bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: I get into a conversation today with our friend Jonathan 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: Metzel on this Woke Wednesday that is just really about 5 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: every single amount of fuck shit that we are going 6 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: through UM and what it feels like and the experience 7 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: of kind of living through one apocalyptic week after another UM, 8 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: but also really talking about the neuroses right that we 9 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: are seeing of this Republican Party UM, around the insurrection, 10 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: around their denial, talking about the fact that we are 11 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: using our ability to share space with one another and 12 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: do so in a civilized manner with the purchase or 13 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 1: impending purchase I should say, of Twitter by Elon Musk. 14 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: And you know, folks, it's funny because I've been talking 15 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: to Jonathan for as well as you guys know, every 16 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: every week for the past two years, and you know, 17 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: it's it's amazing because in the beginning, I just want 18 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: to offer this to you. In the beginning, we thought 19 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: that what we were initially experiencing with being in this 20 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: global health pandemic was like the worst that things could get. 21 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: But as time has gone on, I don't think we 22 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: realized at that time how good we fucking had it. 23 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: And I don't mean to be flippant, trust me about 24 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: the people that have lost their lives to COVID. I 25 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: in fact lost my step grandmother to COVID in November 26 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, So I'm not trying to be flippant, 27 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: but I'm saying in terms of we thought that that 28 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: was the worst that it could get. It never occurred 29 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: to us that, as we were, you know, buying up 30 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: every bit of toilet paper and hand sanitizer, that once 31 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: a vaccine was available, that we would have people that 32 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: would protest it and protest hospitals, that we would get 33 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: to a place that even though we learned much much 34 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: later thanks to the lack of journalistic integrity of people 35 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: like Bob Woodward and others who decided to sell a 36 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: book as opposed to allow the American people to hear 37 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: from Donald Trump himself that co COVID nineteen was in 38 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: fact not a hoax, that it was lethal, that it 39 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: was airborne, and that it was much more dangerous than 40 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: the flu. But instead he decided to hawk a book 41 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: the same way that the Kevin McCarthy tapes were just released, 42 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: and it just in time once again for New York 43 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: Times journalists to be able to sell a book as 44 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: opposed to airing out the fucking dirty launcher of the 45 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: Republican Party. I'm watching the news this week, and if 46 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 1: you are somebody who lives in Pennsylvania, please do put 47 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: in the comment section whether or not you had it 48 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: in you to stomach the debate for the Republican primary 49 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: for governor. But I'm watching local news here on Long 50 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: Island and just the fact that we are two years 51 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: or moved from the twenty twenty election and you have 52 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: candidates for the state of Pennsylvania to be like folks 53 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: who are still uttering the big lie. And I just 54 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: watched this segment where, you know, another reporter said, you know, 55 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: it's Republicans in private to each other know that this 56 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: is crazy, but they're so just they're just so scared, physically, 57 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: fearful of their base. Well, you're the ones that created 58 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: the monster. So do you think that I'm going to 59 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: feel fucking bad for you now that the monsters that 60 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: you've created now want to bite your head off if 61 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: you don't go along with the lies. That you brought 62 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 1: to their front door. That now you have a situation 63 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: where your base is totally and completely out of control, 64 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: where if you were to step out of the line, 65 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: which means step out of favor with Donald Trump, then 66 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: you could be potentially physically assaulted or worse. You know, 67 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: they were going back to when Mitt Romney was verbally 68 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: accosted and I think jostled around a bit for his 69 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: votes recently, you know, during the Trump administration, voting to 70 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: impeach and all of these things. And you're saying to 71 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: me yourself, and I'm sorry, he didn't vote to impeach. 72 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: He voted to go along, you know, to certify the 73 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: elections and all of these things. But he was accosted. 74 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: And so you have these people that want to do 75 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: tough talk, right like they did during the Judge Katanchi 76 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: Brown Jackson hearing. They want to bolster up their chest 77 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: and scream and spit and do all that shit. But 78 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: they won't do that with their own base because they're 79 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: afraid of those gun toten motherfuckers. Right. They're afraid that 80 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: they're going to catch a case quite literally, And I'm 81 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: just like, I wish you fucking would and yeah, I 82 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: said what I said, because frankly, they are the ones 83 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: to blame for the situation that we are in because 84 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: much alike right, reports have come out about what exactly 85 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell thought after the insurrection, what exactly Kevin McCarthy 86 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: thought after the insurrection, And if they either one of 87 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: them had control over right they're members, then they should 88 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: have circled the wagons on the Republican Party, regardless of 89 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: how despicable I think that they are. And Alice Donald Trump, 90 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: like the Republicans could have solved their own fucking problem right, 91 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: and they could have recognized that, you know what, if 92 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: we allowed this to persist outside of the primary, outside 93 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: of you know, his first term, if we allowed this 94 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: to persist, then our party is going to be beholden 95 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: to this man, to his image for decades to come. 96 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: They had a moment right where they could have said 97 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: where Mitch McConnell could have laid down the fucking law 98 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: and said, we are voting to impeach period. If you 99 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: care about this country, if you care about the future 100 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: of this party, that is what we are doing, right, 101 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: and I'm going to ensure that we're able to cast 102 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: this vote in secrecy if in fact, you are fearful 103 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: for yourself, and I believe that the Democrats will go 104 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: along with it. But this is what we need to do. 105 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: There were so many avenues right for Republicans to actually 106 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: do the right thing. But what we need to realize 107 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: is that they had no desire to because Donald Trump 108 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: is them and they are Donald Trump. And I keep 109 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: listening to these analysts and reporters, you know, talk about, oh, 110 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is the leader of the party for now. Folks, 111 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: you have a twice impeached, right criminal ass president that 112 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: is under investigation in multiple states, where at least one 113 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: still because the Manhattan da is chicken shit. So at 114 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: least right you have the continuation of the investigation that 115 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: is happening in Georgia. And maybe Merritt Garland is awake, 116 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: maybe he's not. I'm assuming that Merritt Garland is still 117 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: in a coma. But and this is the man that 118 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: you continue to rally behind. So when folks say to me, 119 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: he's the leader of the party for now, who do 120 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: you think the leader of the party is going to be? 121 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: Right now? You know what I said earlier this week 122 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: with regard to Rhonda Santis is what I believed over 123 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: the weekend. I do think that Rhonda Santis is absolutely 124 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: going to run for president regardless of if Donald Trump runs, 125 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: and I think that the entire party will get behind 126 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: the more cunning, politically savvy, and strategic Donald Trump, which 127 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: is Rhonda Santist. And I think that if Rhonda Santists 128 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: were to win, it would be a decision to allow 129 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump to say that he's going to run, I'm 130 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: gonna run, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna run, so that 131 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: he can continue to grift off of his followers and 132 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: then he will turn over the baton to Rhonda Santis. 133 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: I only believe that he does that if there is 134 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: no indictment that comes down, because the only way that 135 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump could protect himself, and the only reason why 136 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: he wanted to be president in the first fucking place, 137 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: was so that he wouldn't he would be free from persecution. 138 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: So the reality is is that all of this is 139 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: one big grift. Whether you're Rhonda Santists and you know 140 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: yunken in Virginia who are narrowing our public school curriculum 141 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: in their state to a place where they're only bringing 142 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: in one textbook, and it just so happens to be 143 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: one that they're both financially and politically tied to. Whether 144 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: it's that grift or whether it's the way that Donald 145 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: Trump used the Trump Hotel in Washington, DC as a 146 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: revolving fucking door for foreign dignitaries as well as members 147 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: of his own cabinet to throw their events right at cost. So, 148 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, folks, we look at all of these things 149 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: and I am just struck by the fact that no 150 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: political party in this country has any gravitas. The Republican 151 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: Party completely capitulated to Donald Trump, to Donald Trump's whims. 152 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: The Democratic Party refuses to actually go to the lengths 153 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: of standing up for our democracy and persecuting Donald Trump 154 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: to the fullest extent of the law because they're afraid 155 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: of the political pushback. I don't know which one is worse, 156 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: to be honest, but right now I have such a 157 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: distaste for Democrats, for the Democratic establishment for this reason, 158 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: because you wouldn't be able to continue to refer to 159 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: Donald Trump as the head of the party if Donald 160 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: Trump had been indicted, right because they can only guide 161 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: this so fucking far, and if he's thrown in jail 162 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: or on trial. You think that he's going to be 163 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: able to run for office? I don't think so, right. 164 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: You think that if that is playing every single day 165 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: on primetime television, that Donald Trump is going to get 166 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: away with running for the presidency in twenty twenty four. 167 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: And so again Democrats have his solve for their problem 168 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: that they refuse to use because I don't want to 169 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: be I don't want to be seen by the people 170 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: who hate me and literally would kill me, who say 171 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: the most hot, disgusting shit about me. I don't want 172 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: them to react. Well, guess what, folks, they're reacting anyway. 173 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: So the question is what is your reaction going to be? Right? Like, 174 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: are we just going to sit around, right and dick 175 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: around until everything is gone, until we don't even recognize 176 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: this country? Because I barely recognize it now. Right, Everything 177 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: that I have loved, that I have worked for is 178 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: pretty much gone or on its way out. And so 179 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: how do you continue to have, like I keep talking 180 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: about that mustard seat of hope when your own political 181 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: party is acting like a bunch of punks and think 182 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: that they're going to take the moral ground and like 183 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: that's going to serve them it's not. So we need 184 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: to figure out as a party who the fuck we 185 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: want to be when we grow up and stop acting 186 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: like a bunch of little kids. Stop acting like a 187 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: bunch of toddlers that are afraid of the bully in 188 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: the park. Right, you need to use every single weapon 189 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: that you have at your disposal, right, the brilliant legal 190 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: minds that are in this country, to look like you 191 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: are fucking fighting. Otherwise we lose everything for good. Because 192 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: I don't know of any country that has lost their 193 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: democracy and then got it back within you know, a 194 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: year or two. That shit takes decades, decades that we 195 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: don't have and our kids shouldn't have to suffer through. 196 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: Coming up next, my conversation with our in house doctor, 197 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of Dying of Whiteness. Friends, when 198 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: it is Wednesday, I'm always so grateful to be joined 199 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: by our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of 200 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: Dying of Whiteness, which in fact, we are dying of 201 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: each and every day in America since roughly twenty sixteen. Jonathan, 202 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: biggest news this week? I mean, I don't know how 203 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: we keep track because there's so much news every goddamn week. 204 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: But big news this week that Elon Musk has made 205 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: an offer to Twitter to buy it for forty four 206 00:13:54,400 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: million dollars after the fact it still has to be 207 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: approved by shareholders. It still has to be approved by 208 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: the board, but everybody stands, including the CEO current CEO, 209 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: to make hundreds of millions of dollars. However, right after 210 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: the announcement was made, hashtag I'm leaving Twitter or Twitter 211 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: fail was trending on this site. And people are really 212 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: concerned about Twitter turning into a cesspool of toxicity given 213 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: the fact that Elon Musk is probably one of the 214 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: biggest human trolls that I have seen. He's tweeted things 215 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: like coronavirus is fake. He has tweeted things against the 216 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: LGBTQ community, particularly charged challenging trans trans identity and trans 217 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: people's existence by saying pronouns are bullshit. What do you 218 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: make of folks reaction? And what is your reaction? Because 219 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: both you and I are avid Twitter users for our 220 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: work to lift up our voice, what do you make 221 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: of this decision and how it honestly can potentially impact 222 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: people's emotional and mental health on this platform that is 223 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: already egregious in a lot of ways. Well, I've been 224 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: dying to say this, and I couldn't say it in 225 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: public before, But now I can say coronavirus is real. 226 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: And you know, I was blocked before people didn't listen 227 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: to cardib But now I can just say that in public. 228 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: I can say I can say anything I went to 229 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: public because free speech, no one, no one, everybody has 230 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: the right to free speech. I can also say that 231 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: slavery was horrible for enslaved people. I couldn't say that before, 232 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: but now we can say whatever we want. I think 233 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: that gender fluidity is a logical response to a very 234 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: uncertain world. I can say that everybody's going to embrace 235 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: me for all these opinions. So there's all these things 236 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: we can say now that we couldn't say before that 237 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: I think are are great. You know, the binary system, 238 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: that's just how our brains are devised. But it turns 239 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: out the life world is non binary. So let's embrace 240 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: non binary approaches, and so all these opinions are going 241 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: to be celebrated I think by by the open. Yeah 242 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: it's a total bunch of horseshit, obviously, Yeah, it's it's 243 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: like free speech for who right, And so that's kind 244 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: of the issue is like the people are yelling free 245 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: speech are the same people who are trying to, like, um, 246 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: are trying to like make figure out what you can 247 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: teach in a college class, you know, or um, what 248 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: you can talk about or whatever. Like I don't know, 249 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: I just like this just the snarkiness and me like, 250 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: I want to go write a book that's like, you know, 251 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: Wanking with Wood by Pinocchio or something like that and 252 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: sell it at disney World or something, you know, Like 253 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: I I just like it's it's so the so the 254 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: the bs ness of the world has never been on 255 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: display more than right now. And so the question is 256 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: like what do you do? And the irony is, you know, 257 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: you and I like we love doing gloom like that's 258 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: our thing, right, I mean I don't love it's not 259 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: actually Okay now, I'm just kidding. There's a lot of 260 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: people I like. I like light things. It so happens 261 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: that we're living in the midst of the apocalypse, though, 262 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: name one light thing you like. I like plants, Okay, 263 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: when knows that I am a huge plant person. That's 264 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: how I keep my sanity. Yeah, I mean I play 265 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: softball weekend. I had a good soft I mean, I'm 266 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: in a batting slump. So if any of our viewers 267 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: have any yeah I can't I can't hit the ball 268 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: right now. But but but let me just say what 269 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: I was going to say is, you know, but I 270 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: guess the point about doom and gloom is this um 271 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: like there's a fanta see that things are unregulated. Like 272 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: that's what's behind this whole Twitter fantasy and other fantasy. 273 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: Is like if everybody just has a gun and an 274 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: opinion and equal access to the conversation, the world's going 275 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: to be a better place. And and really what it 276 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: means is that if everyone has has that really horrible 277 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: oppressive ideologies rise to the top, and we end up 278 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: reinforcing hierarchies that are baked into the cake of the 279 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: of the society and have been for you know, since, 280 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: you know, for centuries now and stuff like that, and 281 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: so in a way, what it does is just reaffies 282 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: all the really bad shit and silences any kind of 283 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: protest or or or alternate way of being in a way, 284 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: and so part of the issue is like something like 285 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: Twitter need I mean, I was just thinking, how great 286 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: would it be if there was a public utility that 287 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: was based on letting people communicate and communicate with each 288 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: other that was then also regulated to make sure there 289 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: weren't threats or hate speech or other things that were 290 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: like blatantly you know, blatantly un un Christian to be 291 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: up on that and stuff like that. And so, M 292 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: so that's kind of what we need. And and so 293 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: I just think this idea of like everything being unregulated, 294 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, it just I grew up in a 295 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: world where like libertarianism was always a thing, but it 296 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: was it was a fringe thing. And the fact that 297 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: we're like moving into libertarian not just communication, but health 298 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: and self defense and everything else like that, it just 299 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: it just seems to me like a slippery slope toward anarchy. 300 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: And more than that, it reinforces, it reinforces the bad 301 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: stuff that that regulation is designed to to keep people 302 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: away from so they can live happy, productive lives. You know. 303 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: One of the things that I have been thinking about 304 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: since this news you know, dropped, because you know, one 305 00:19:54,119 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: I had never Jonathan until last week experienced re really 306 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: hurtful UM pushback on Twitter. And I mean that I 307 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:11,239 Speaker 1: had joined UM MSNBC Reverend Owl Show. And this was 308 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: before when we thought that him buying Twitter was not 309 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: going to happen. And so for the first time, I'm 310 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: speaking publicly about Elon Musk and how I think that 311 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: he's a transphobe and a bigot and all of all 312 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: of the things that he has put on display with 313 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: his Twitter account and in interviews that he's given. And 314 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: I got so much hate that and I you know, 315 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: and it was and it was more than I'd ever 316 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: gotten before. But I realized as I had, you know, 317 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: a mini breakdown during the week, that wow, this was 318 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: really hurtful, right, Like, and that's the point, right The 319 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: point is to get at you. The point is to 320 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: devalue you, to dehumanize you, and all of these things. 321 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: And then with this sale moving forward, I'm just like, oh, 322 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: so is this going to be every day? Like? Is 323 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: this going to be that one picture shot of what 324 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: happened to me? By speaking out against Elon Musk and 325 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: then apparently recognizing that, you know, white men love this 326 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: man like he is some type of deity, right, I mean, 327 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: the same way that they have this love affair with 328 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, like he gets to do whatever he wants. 329 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: And I'm starting to realize that, you know, for right wingers, 330 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: these conservative white cis gender men, whether or not there 331 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: they have any economic status at all, their desire in 332 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: life is to be able to walk through it and 333 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: do whatever the fuck they want without accountability. And Donald 334 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: Trump and Elon Musk are the picture perfect examples of that, 335 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: which is funny because most of us believe that white 336 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: men walk around and do whatever the fuck they want anyway, 337 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: regardless of their fame or economic status. And so what 338 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: do you think that it is that has people take 339 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: up for the likes of a and a mosque? I mean, 340 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: there's there's such a strong under and overcurrent of like, 341 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: um giving voice to racial resentment in a way, and 342 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: so the kind of sense of your aggrieved, you've been oppressed, 343 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: you've been oppressed by villain the blank usually government or 344 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: wokeness you know, or whatever the hellum, and and and 345 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: so it kind of gives voice, It makes it okay. 346 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: He kind of profits unimagined, unimaginably by giving voice to 347 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: that aggrieved sense of kind of white victimhood. And I 348 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: think that's that's that's kind of it, you know, and 349 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: that that combines both those guys. I mean, I think 350 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: in this case, but I mean, Jonathan, how is it 351 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: that that that like rich white men are the ones 352 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: that are giving voice to the victimhood, Like, isn't that ridiculous? No, 353 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: the whole thing is absurd. And the thing is like like, 354 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: like was Twitter really that regulated? Like people really he 355 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: couldn't say, like, you know, they couldn't say winking with 356 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: wood by Pinocchio. That was the one thing you couldn't 357 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: say on Twitter. I'm just going to try to make 358 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: that a profitable thing. But but but no, I think 359 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: that you know, it wasn't that regulated, right, But finding 360 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: like oh I'm oppressed by this fauci Is Hitler and 361 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: all these kind of things, like you know, you just 362 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: you find the thing that is oppressing your freedom and 363 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: your liberty and then you blow that thing up. I 364 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: mean it's a pretty standard thing, but it works, right, 365 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: I Mean, they can see their works. Oh we're oppressed. 366 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: We're oppressed by this thing that I didn't even know 367 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: as a thing and I don't even encounter it at 368 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: all in my daily life ever. But but but I 369 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: think that narrative of like being aggrieved by the way 370 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: the world is turning away from you is a pretty 371 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: powerful thing for people who can articulate that pretty well. 372 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I I've certainly seen that in the stuff 373 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: I do in my work, and yeah, so I think 374 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: that's it. I don't think the content, I mean, consistency 375 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: in the intent is not is not going to be. 376 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we have a Jewish guy from 377 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: South Africa and a guy who inherited a bunch of 378 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: money from his dad, who was a Democrat supporting abortion 379 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: and gun control until like fifteen years ago. Like, it's 380 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: not like consistency is the message. It's more like people 381 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: who give voice to that aggrieved sense can can pretty 382 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: much get away with murder. And that that's kind of 383 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: what we see. I mean literally, but let me ask you. 384 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: Let me ask one thing, because like I don't I 385 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: don't really care that much. But I lost a ton 386 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: of Twitter followers overnight, I guess, And so are people 387 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: quitting Twitter? Is it bots that are running? I think, 388 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: I honestly, And and this was I asked like a 389 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: couple of people because um Anna Navarro, like a lot 390 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: of you know, folks who have hundreds of thousands of 391 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: followers were tweeting that they had lost thousands. I lost 392 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: I think to this point right now about three hundred 393 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: and you know, and that's it's I think that it's 394 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: bought sweeping. I think that it's really coincidental to have 395 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: this announcement come out and then all of a sudden 396 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: people are losing thousands or hundreds of you know, of followers. 397 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: Is it just a regular bot sweeping. I have no idea, 398 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: but I have I have been gaining followers, and so 399 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: I haven't lost anyone that I was following, right So 400 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: I think that it's just that it's it's really going 401 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: to be like what happens to the Forum. I mean, 402 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: I think that's going to be true. It is Twitter 403 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: going to be so toxic, like it's not even worth 404 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: the headache, you know. I mean that seems like that's 405 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: a real possibility. Is that just the tone of Twitter 406 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: is something that is so off putting to just the 407 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: average person that um that it just becomes a place 408 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: to go listen to like Trump and Babylon Bee and 409 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: Alex Jones and all these kind of things. And so 410 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: in a way, the possibility of just a total right 411 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: wing takeover of this megaphone seems to me pretty high, 412 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: and so I would I would just and in a 413 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: way that kind of silences the voices. I mean, what 414 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: you experience after TV, I bet will be the response. 415 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if it will be the norm, you know. Yeah, 416 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: And so the thing is two things. Number one is 417 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: just pay attention to I mean, I've I don't know anything. 418 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: I'm not an inside at all, and I you know, 419 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm very like I if it's up to me, we'd 420 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: still be using atari pong, like I'm terrible with technology. 421 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: But I will say watch to be watch if you're 422 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: followed by like right wing stuff, I mean, that will 423 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: be the issue. Is like I bet a lot of 424 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: people like us will be followed by right wing stuff, 425 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: and then every time we say, hey, I'm tying my shoe, 426 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: then there'll be ten thousand people saying shoes, shoes or 427 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: liberal shoot hard, you know that kind of thing. And 428 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: so I just I would watch that because I would 429 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: bet that it's going to have a massive silencing effect. 430 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: And then for me, it's like, you know, health follow 431 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: me on tender. I don't care like just I would 432 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: be but this is you know, but that's one of 433 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: the things too, is that we know right that these environments, 434 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: these platforms were initially created I think out of good right, 435 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: which was the desire to bring people together. For Twitter 436 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: was to kind of create this town hall, you know, 437 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: type of vibe where you can follow all of these people. 438 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: I believe for me, Twitter at least is where I 439 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: follow academics like yourself, where I follow you know, journalists 440 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: and things like that. But you know, somebody had tweeted 441 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: and had said something really powerful, which was love E J. Jones, 442 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: and she said, you know, the thing with content creators 443 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: is that unless you own the platform that you are on, 444 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: you're always going to be beholden to somebody else, and 445 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: you're going to be beholden to whoever, you know, whoever 446 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: takes the ownership's stake. And so if you're not finding 447 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: a way to get your own email address, to get 448 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: the email addresses of the people that follow you to 449 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: create and direct them elsewhere, then like this will just 450 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: keep happening. And what is going to happen is that 451 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, you will have these major social media sites. 452 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: We didn't like it when Meta took over Instagram and 453 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: is like has tried to disrupt and kill tiktoku by 454 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: hiring a right wing firm, Like, so, where what what 455 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: does it mean when we live in a society where 456 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: free speech and how it has evolved over time is 457 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: actually I'm silenced, right because I've been thinking, Jonathan, and 458 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: you know you do this work, like you know, Hitler 459 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: didn't need social media, right, Like you know he had 460 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: tens of millions of people following him by use of 461 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: the media. While Hitler was killing millions of Jews, he 462 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: was getting fucking you know, uh coverage in the New 463 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: York Times Home and Garden section about the long walks 464 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: that he likes to take. And so I wonder, you 465 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: know why we know that Russia is still messing with 466 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: our social media. We know these bots, we know what 467 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: we believe, we know what Elon Musk wants to do 468 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: with Twitter. What is what do you think that that 469 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: means for our personal power and understanding how we utilize 470 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 1: our voice, particularly at a time when we're watching our 471 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: democracy crumble. Well, I mean, I think that's exactly right, 472 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: that the bigger the issue is certainly personal. And I 473 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: mean I don't know, I can't hardly, I don't know. 474 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: I have like signal on my phone and that telegram 475 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: or telegraph or whatever on my phone, Like I don't. 476 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: I don't have time for that. Like you know, so 477 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: there's only so many things to get people's email addresses. 478 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: Would I don't know, I'm not doing I'm not doing that. 479 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: Um you know, just meet me at Central Park at 480 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: three o'clock or something like that. Yeah, yeah, but um, 481 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: but I would say that the bigger the issue is personal, 482 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: but it's also profoundly political. If you think about the 483 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: role that Twitter plays, for example, in mobilizing political campaigns 484 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: and Twitter ACTIVI in all the work of you know, 485 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: I mean for better or worse, right, I mean, think 486 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: about the Bernie Sanders you know, bullshit and stuff like 487 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: that in the primary. But I'm saying like Twitter is 488 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: like the it's not just any artery of communication. It's 489 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: the one that is that is mostly used by political 490 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: campaigns also and to mobilize things. And so I think 491 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: the issue is also going to be what's the impact 492 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: on our on our elections, on our politics, and and 493 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: so I think, you know, it's kind of TVD there, 494 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: but that's well, that's where also I think you're exactly right. 495 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: I would be worried about that. Also, it's kind of 496 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: like what does this mean for campaigns, for campaigns of 497 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: people who aren't already incumbent and their name recognition might 498 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: not be that great, or who are trying to create 499 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: alliances between different kinds of people who aren't usually together. 500 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: So I don't know, hope hopefully we figure that out. 501 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: But it's just weird that there's a lot of money 502 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,959 Speaker 1: people have tried in like creating alternate social media platforms 503 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: um and uh, and it just hasn't worked. So we'll 504 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: have to see what happens. Yeah, I think that it. 505 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: I mean what they are saying, at least by the 506 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: Associated Press, the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg is that this takeover, 507 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: like the sale will be done in twenty twenty two, 508 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: the takeover Musk takeover would happen in twenty twenty three. Right, 509 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: So it's like getting through mid terms potentially potentially um 510 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: but then leading up to the presidential right to your 511 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, to your point. But again I say, is 512 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 1: this an opportunity? Is this a time for us to 513 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: really to realize that like what was supposed to be 514 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: social platforms to bring us together have been weaponized And 515 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: is it do we need even in this rise of 516 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: you know of more technology, of you know, of oculus, 517 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: of these spaces that you can you know, you can 518 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: go into virtually of the metaverse and all of these things. 519 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: Do we need to go back to just yeah, meet 520 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: me in Central Park at three o'clock? Do we need 521 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: to go back to just door knocking? In terms of 522 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: political you know, get out the vote and connection to 523 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: go back to where we started because these places, I mean, 524 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: you're not going to be trolled if you go back 525 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: to you know, knocking on doors. But we also live 526 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: in a more violent time and think about like the 527 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: pandemic for example, Like the power of disinformation that plays 528 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: to people's fears and moments of crisis is deep. And 529 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: so I think all of those things. I mean, well, 530 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: we'll see how this goes. I mean, I think that 531 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: it's just weird. Like if you think about the role, 532 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: for better or worse that government played, like when we 533 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: were growing up, or you know, people people had government 534 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: jobs and people you know, think about how like the 535 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: post office was never late and they delivered in snow 536 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: and sleet and until yeah, and and healthcare could could 537 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, you could see the promise of things like 538 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: something like medicare for all or a single payer system. 539 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: That's that's a government healthcare system. I mean, the idea 540 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: of kind of promoting equity in our society rests on 541 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: somebody being in charge. But if it's every single person 542 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: is out for themselves, it's great for gun sales, it's 543 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: great for people who already have power, and it's terrible 544 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: for everybody else. And I think we're seeing that in 545 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: multiple ways, rhetorical and real and and so I think 546 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: that's going to be the issue is how do you 547 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: possibly make government or regulation or something like that, how 548 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: do you how do you restore trust in that in 549 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: the face of this when you don't have the you 550 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: don't have the voice in a way. So it's it's 551 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty. Um, it's pretty it's serious. It's pretty serious. Yeah, 552 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: it's pretty serious. Yeah. You know. I last, you know, 553 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,719 Speaker 1: last thing I will say to um, last question for 554 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: you is you know again, I know that we talk 555 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: every week and we try and be lighthearted in between 556 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: our apocalyptic comments, because you know, I want people to 557 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: continue listening to the show and not feel doom and gloom. 558 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: But did they come for dooming gloom? Come for dooming 559 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: bloom and Pinocchio jokes. But the heavy but seriously, the 560 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: heaviness of the times that we are living, like every 561 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: week just feels worse than the last, right, And so 562 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: it's like, I, I don't know, like how we're supposed 563 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: to be navigating this time when there feels like there 564 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: is no light at the end of the tunnel. So 565 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: I just want to know, you know, I know that 566 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: you just wrapped um your semester, but uh, you know, 567 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: the year with your students, what was there, what was 568 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: the energy going, you know, going, you know, going out 569 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: of this of this year. Imagine for young people particularly, Yeah, 570 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: there's so much anxiety right now about what world are 571 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: we entering and will the world still be there? Because 572 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: they of course very much care about climate, they care 573 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: about inequity, they care just that there's going to be 574 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: a functioning economy which requires grown ups to like get 575 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: along enough to like think that they're in the same system. 576 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: So there's a tremendous amount of of anxiety right now 577 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: in students at places like where I teach at Vanderbilt, certainly, 578 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: and but but it's not like everybody's feeling doom right now. 579 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: If you are a right winger, this is like, I 580 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: mean Spanish fly floating in the air kind of momentum. 581 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: This is this is the greatest thing that's ever happening. 582 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: So if you're one of the people who's like the 583 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: adoring crowds in a Lenny reference Stall movie, then this 584 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 1: is like a great moment for you. And so it's 585 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: it's really honestly just going to take remobilizing the majority 586 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 1: of this country in a way that's effective in light 587 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: of what are It's not like every week is bad. 588 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: It's like every week follows from it just gets worse 589 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: from the week before. So so we need a better 590 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: a better strategy and in a way how to mobilize 591 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: right now is really going to be the main the 592 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,959 Speaker 1: main issue. I mean, we're facing some pretty big things 593 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: and just beyond all this stuff like like what what 594 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: defines a democrat right now, as we're like nine months 595 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: away from facing like this massive threat, they could even 596 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: get much worse, much worse. Um, I don't know. I 597 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: feel like we need a we need a narrative, a 598 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:41,479 Speaker 1: sap about how people are going to get together about this. Jonathan, Well, 599 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: we'll continue to get together every week until somebody locks 600 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: us up. No, they're not taking they're not learn morse code. No. 601 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,439 Speaker 1: I mean the thing is like I'm gonna I'm gonna 602 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: make a zillion dollars with my Pinocchio book and then 603 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to buy DCP and A and then that'll 604 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: be the That'll be ther Yeah. That love it. Well, 605 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: we'll see you next week. Jonathan here's helping take care. Guys. 606 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on Woke 607 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: f As always, power to the people and to all 608 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.