Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKP Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
Speaker 1: I want to start off today's show with my thoughts
Speaker 1: on what is transpired most recently in Gaza, which is
Speaker 1: the killing of seven aid workers from the World Central Kitchen,
Speaker 1: Jose Andreas's global humanitarian food organization that has been aiding
Speaker 1: areas of conflict, areas that have been destroyed from hurricanes
Speaker 1: and tornadoes and the like. And you know, today I
Speaker 1: Jonathan is back on the show, and I ask him
Speaker 1: towards the end of our interview about his thoughts, and
Speaker 1: we're going to have a longer conversation about it next week.
Speaker 1: But you know, I ended my interview with Jonathan by
Speaker 1: saying that we always find ourselves looking for a tipping
Speaker 1: point moment, looking for a moment where people really see
Speaker 1: what is happening right, and that decisions are made based
Speaker 1: on the vileness right, like one of the reasons during
Speaker 1: the height of the Civil rights movement to video and
Speaker 1: to put on television the brutality that surrounded segregation and
Speaker 1: the Jim Crow era. Those images began to change people's
Speaker 1: hearts and minds. You know, when you're seeing children be brutalized,
Speaker 1: people be brutalized with fire hoses, and the pressure and
Speaker 1: the beatings and the humiliation and the degradation and all
Speaker 1: of those things, it began to change the course of history. Similarly,
Speaker 1: I wonder what will happen following the purposeful killing because
Speaker 1: what we know and what Joseandreas said recently in his
Speaker 1: ap ed that if you have not read, I encourage
Speaker 1: you all to read Let People Eat, because it is
Speaker 1: heartbreaking and honest about food being used as a weapon. Right,
Speaker 1: and I think that the world has had enough of
Speaker 1: giving Netanyahu and the if the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1: Thirty two thousand plus people are dead, more than half
Speaker 1: of them being children. People are being starved to death,
Speaker 1: medicine being denied, and now this is one in a
Speaker 1: series of aid workers who have been killed. And Netniyahu's
Speaker 1: response is just so fucking depraved when he says, well,
Speaker 1: you know, that's what happens in war. No, actually, that
Speaker 1: isn't what happens in war, because there are rules of
Speaker 1: engagement for a fucking reason. Absolutely, war is heinous. But
Speaker 1: as I listen to an analyst recently, on cable news, say,
Speaker 1: but we're not supposed to be dealing with a dictator
Speaker 1: or a head of a terrorist organization. This is the
Speaker 1: president of a supposed democracy where you are supposed to
Speaker 1: follow rules and regulations about how you engage. But that's
Speaker 1: not what's happening. So why do we keep giving this
Speaker 1: motherfucker the benefit of the doubt when we know that
Speaker 1: his heart is calloused, as is the hearts of the
Speaker 1: people that are inside of that cannesse it. So when
Speaker 1: you start to see, as they don't show on regular news,
Speaker 1: thousands of people emptying into the streets in Israel demanding
Speaker 1: his fucking resignation because they don't want this, because what
Speaker 1: he he is doing is honestly shifting the world's view
Speaker 1: on this country, and that's never a good thing. You
Speaker 1: know what jose Andres says towards the end of his
Speaker 1: let people Eat up ed in the New York Times,
Speaker 1: is this that really just got me? The peoples of
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean and Middle East, regardless of ethnicity and religion,
Speaker 1: share a culture that values food as a powerful statement
Speaker 1: of humanity and hospitality, of our shared hope for a
Speaker 1: better tomorrow. There's a reason at this special time of year.
Speaker 1: Christians make Easter eggs. Muslims eat an egg at if
Speaker 1: Tar dinners, and an egg sits on the Sator plate.
Speaker 1: This symbol of life and hope reborn in spring extends
Speaker 1: across religions and cultures. I have been a stranger at
Speaker 1: Sator dinners. I have heard the ancient Passover stories about
Speaker 1: being a stranger in the land of Egypt, the commandment
Speaker 1: to remember with a feast before you, that the children
Speaker 1: of Israel were once slaves. It is not a sign
Speaker 1: of weakness to feed strangers, It is a sign of strength.
Speaker 1: The people of Israel need to remember, at this darkest
Speaker 1: hour what strength truly looks like. I leave that with
Speaker 1: you all today because I think, in this moment of
Speaker 1: great darkness that we are all experiencing in this country,
Speaker 1: in Gaza, in Israel, in the Congo, in Ukraine, around
Speaker 1: the world, in the nations, that we don't lift up
Speaker 1: to a spotlight, that we are being fed a false image,
Speaker 1: an idea of what strength and power looks like. And
Speaker 1: because people find themselves so desperate, they are consuming it,
Speaker 1: knowing that it will never fill them. When it is darkest,
Speaker 1: we must choose the light and be the light. Coming
Speaker 1: up next, my conversation with our friend, our in house doctor,
Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, I am so excited to welcome
Speaker 1: back our world traveler, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who has been
Speaker 1: on the road selling his new book and having a conversation,
Speaker 1: starting conversations about what we've become his new book, which
Speaker 1: is out now. If you guys have not gotten it yet,
Speaker 1: you need to get this book and be in conversation. Jonathan,
Speaker 1: welcome back. Tell us how the tour has been. How,
Speaker 1: you know, because you're out there talking to real Americans,
Speaker 1: not like me, because you know, according to corporate media,
Speaker 1: I'm not a real American. But you're out there talking
Speaker 1: to real Americans. So what have you been hearing?
Speaker 2: Well, it's been honestly incredible and powerful, as you know,
Speaker 2: because we have been talking about this for a long
Speaker 2: time and also in our great conversation in Brooklyn. You know,
Speaker 2: this isn't the kind of book that, like you can
Speaker 2: summarize in three sentences, and so it's been really great
Speaker 2: to get out there and talk about issues of race
Speaker 2: and gun violence and mental illness and democracy, which are
Speaker 2: all the themes that the book kind of revolves around.
Speaker 2: And I've just been honored and privileged to go to
Speaker 2: really to be let into some incredible conversations. I was
Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh yesterday and we had a morning kind of
Speaker 2: roundtable with gun violence prevention groups from across Pittsburgh. People
Speaker 2: were there who were working with people who were It
Speaker 2: was really interesting working with in gun violence prevention in Pittsburgh,
Speaker 2: working with people who are just being incarcerated and we're
Speaker 2: just getting kind of let out. And they were saying that,
Speaker 2: like people were going into into prison thinking that like
Speaker 2: the gun situation was one thing, and then then when
Speaker 2: they come out ten years later, it's just so much
Speaker 2: worse than when they went in because there's so many
Speaker 2: more guns, and the pandemicum funded everything, and there's so
Speaker 2: much more polarization, and so really talking to people on
Speaker 2: the ground about this stuff, about what it means, it's just,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the honor of writing a book like
Speaker 2: this and so on doing that. I'll be in Louisville
Speaker 2: next week, in Seattle and a couple of other stops.
Speaker 2: So really, I mean, to me, that's the great part
Speaker 2: of spending five or six years working on a project
Speaker 2: is then you get to actually talk about what it
Speaker 2: means in the real world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, I love that, and I think
Speaker 1: that what an interesting perspective to be talking to people
Speaker 1: that are were formally incarcerated and their experience going in
Speaker 1: with the world being one way and coming out with
Speaker 1: it being a completely other way. I'm sure there are
Speaker 1: so many different perspectives that are of value. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately in this country, we're just going to
Speaker 1: continue talking about guns because they don't ever seem to
Speaker 1: be going anywhere, and the problem seems to continue to
Speaker 1: get worse. And you know, I'm from Long Island, New York,
Speaker 1: and where I have grown up, I've told you, out
Speaker 1: east on Long Island in Suffolk County has become incredibly red.
Speaker 1: It was not incredibly red when I was when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, And you know, I see more pickup
Speaker 1: trucks and I with you know, gun paraphernalia on the
Speaker 1: back of it than I ever did my entire life
Speaker 1: of growing up. And so there is this sense of
Speaker 1: fear that I have in certain in certain areas that
Speaker 1: I didn't before like and that's coming as being you know,
Speaker 1: a black woman going to a school that was you know,
Speaker 1: and living in neighborhoods that were like ninety six and
Speaker 1: ninety seven percent white. But it is this greater relationship,
Speaker 1: I guess, Jonathan, is a question. There seems to be
Speaker 1: a deeper relationship almost that is being forged between people
Speaker 1: and their guns, particularly the new groups of people who
Speaker 1: were not quote unquote traditional gun owners that now see, well,
Speaker 1: if everybody else has one, I need to have one too.
Speaker 2: No, it's a conscious market. I mean, that was the
Speaker 2: talk one of the talks I gave in Pittsburgh yesterday.
Speaker 2: I gave a couple of talks, but one was just
Speaker 2: about the way that that market is created and fostered
Speaker 2: by using fear. And so, for example, after the murder
Speaker 2: of George Floyd, Black and Latino Americans were specifically targeted
Speaker 2: by gun advertisers basically saying, the cops are going to
Speaker 2: you need a gun or you're going to end up
Speaker 2: like George Floyd or something like that. After October seventh,
Speaker 2: Jewish Americans were targeted saying the world is going to
Speaker 2: turn on you and you don't want it. You need
Speaker 2: to be armed. And so basically it's this politics of
Speaker 2: fear that then puts guns into that place. What I
Speaker 2: heard from some of these, like people who were working
Speaker 2: with what's the word for people who were incarcerated and
Speaker 2: then just got out newly unincarcerated. I'm not quite sure.
Speaker 1: I want to get a right to let me google it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what they were saying was that when they
Speaker 2: went in prison, like you actually had to work to
Speaker 2: get a gun, and now a ten year old can
Speaker 2: get a gun. And so just the idea of just
Speaker 2: kind of how many more guns And a lot of
Speaker 2: the people who were the violence for prevention people also
Speaker 2: told me that all the rules went out the window
Speaker 2: during the pandemic, which was like when they started seeing
Speaker 2: many more things. And so in a way, guns become
Speaker 2: on one hand, guns become they've become like your form
Speaker 2: of self protection when the world's going to shit, and
Speaker 2: it's it's hard because, as I've been saying for like
Speaker 2: months here, then the argument of let's all put our
Speaker 2: name in a government database and trust each other and
Speaker 2: common sense public health, it's just not a convincing argument
Speaker 2: for people. And so I do worry that like Trump
Speaker 2: is really speaking to this fear, and Biden isn't like
Speaker 2: Trump is saying, like everybody needs a gun because the
Speaker 2: world is terrifying, and I'm creating the.
Speaker 1: Terror returning citizen.
Speaker 2: Returning thank you. Yeah yeah, that was that's right, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But so that's part of it. But then the other,
Speaker 2: I think, to me, the other, like the other bullshit
Speaker 2: part of this. Honestly, I just keep thinking because I'm
Speaker 2: I want to write a new op ed and I'm
Speaker 2: just I can't figure out how to start it. But like,
Speaker 2: the whole gun logic right now is like the good
Speaker 2: guys need guns because the bad guys have guns or
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's been the I mean, I know, I
Speaker 1: feel like that has been the logic, right.
Speaker 2: But like the crazy thing is how the good guy
Speaker 2: gun market is creating the bad guy gun market. Like
Speaker 2: the issue that people aren't thinking about is how like
Speaker 2: those two things. And so we've known for a long
Speaker 2: time there's this thing called the Iron pipeline where like
Speaker 2: states with tight gun regulations, people who are going to
Speaker 2: commit crimes they just go to red states and buy
Speaker 2: their guns and come back. So because anybody can buy
Speaker 2: a gun in a lot of these states, and so
Speaker 2: and there's this this whole funnel of like guns that
Speaker 2: started out as quote unquote legal guns that then become
Speaker 2: illegal guns. And the other thing, of course is like
Speaker 2: many mass shooters are legal gun owners. But the thing
Speaker 2: is like Republicans now use this thing of like crime.
Speaker 2: They're trying to like hang this around the neck of
Speaker 2: the Democrats as if like crime is something that's all
Speaker 2: about policing. But really the gun market is creating so
Speaker 2: much crime, and it's just like crazy because they're creating
Speaker 2: the problem that then they I mean, the Democrats, as
Speaker 2: you know from my book, are more than more than
Speaker 2: to blame for a lot of this stuff. But in
Speaker 2: this particular issue, I'll give an example. Yesterday in Tennessee,
Speaker 2: there was a bill passed by a great Democratic state
Speaker 2: legislator that was trying to ban what are called straw purchases,
Speaker 2: which is like the most obvious thing in the world.
Speaker 2: People go buy guns at a gun show, they come out,
Speaker 2: they come outside, and then then they give them or
Speaker 2: sell them to people who are not allowed to have guns.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of data that shows that these
Speaker 2: straw purchases, those guns then lead to a lot of crimes.
Speaker 2: So the Democrats tried to like regulate straw purchases, which
Speaker 2: we do like in Alabama, and Florida and every blue state,
Speaker 2: and the Republicans here blocked it. So they're literally like
Speaker 2: blocking the bills that are going to then allow guns
Speaker 2: to then become quote unquote illegal guns. And so this
Speaker 2: whole idea of like the legal versus illegal gun is
Speaker 2: just to me, it's I don't want to say it's
Speaker 2: a red herring, but it's like a problem that the
Speaker 2: Republicans are creating and then trying to have the Democrats
Speaker 2: own it by then saying you're loose on crime.
Speaker 1: I don't even think so I'll go one step further
Speaker 1: because I don't even think that the entire strategy is
Speaker 1: wrapped around creating a problem that then you want Democrats
Speaker 1: to own. I think that Republicans are purposefully creating a
Speaker 1: problem that then will create the pathway for an authoritarian exactly.
Speaker 1: So if you so, it isn't so. I don't even
Speaker 1: think that. It's just like, oh, well, then we want
Speaker 1: to make this Joe Biden's problem. It's like, no, you
Speaker 1: create the conditions, you create the healthscape, and then you say, oh,
Speaker 1: but I have this solution, and the solution happens to
Speaker 1: be this one man that is going to make all
Speaker 1: of your nightmares, you know, into fairy tales, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's what it is that they're you know that they're creating,
Speaker 1: because it's a it's obscene, right Like, if you are
Speaker 1: supposedly about law and order and you're saying, oh, well,
Speaker 1: only people that have you know, the legal ability to
Speaker 1: have guns should have access to guns, then why wouldn't
Speaker 1: you go ahead and vote for a measure that makes
Speaker 1: it difficult for people who are not supposed to have
Speaker 1: guns to have guns because you don't actually care who
Speaker 1: has a gun because you think everyone should have a gun, right,
Speaker 1: And then you'll create the conditions that escalate violence, that
Speaker 1: then get people into a whipped up frenzy of fear
Speaker 1: that then they believe that this one person can come
Speaker 1: in and save them.
Speaker 2: And also it creates these hierarchies that because everything is monetized. Really,
Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at this Trump social nonst
Speaker 2: to social nonsense, every single thing is MONTI. So it's
Speaker 2: also like what I write about in What We've Become
Speaker 2: is how first you scare black Americans into buying guns,
Speaker 2: then you use the representation of black Americans with guns
Speaker 2: to then sell more guns to white Americans, and so
Speaker 2: it becomes this vicious cycle where the people who are
Speaker 2: supporting that fascist dictator are also gaining monetarily by like
Speaker 2: pitting each other against each other tribally and all these ways.
Speaker 2: So it becomes this manipulation that then creates almost like
Speaker 2: a classic arms race, you know, where the gun seller
Speaker 2: is selling guns to both sides and so.
Speaker 1: For re call it that, Jonathan, what's that your piece
Speaker 1: that you're mulling around in your head? Use arms race
Speaker 1: in there somehow.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, the American arms race. Actually, because
Speaker 2: I'm still you know, it's still mad they didn't let
Speaker 2: me call the book How We Lost. I'm still like
Speaker 2: mad about that every day. It was such a better
Speaker 2: title for the book, but they told me, like, nobody's
Speaker 2: going to buy a book about losing. But it's really
Speaker 2: like we our strategies don't respond to like the manipulation
Speaker 2: that's that's happening. We're we're being what was that, you know,
Speaker 2: these these fake stocks, Like we're just being manipulated by
Speaker 2: these algorithms right into you know, that's like this trump
Speaker 2: This truth social is like a perfect metaphor for the
Speaker 2: way the gun economy works also, which is they scare
Speaker 2: the shit out of people to raise the stocks and
Speaker 2: stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, the other day was circulating
Speaker 1: on social media and it's an interview that Tony Morrison
Speaker 1: gave and I think the question from the journalist I
Speaker 1: was interviewing her was something to the effect of do
Speaker 1: you think that racism will ever end? And she said,
Speaker 1: and I'm not quoting directly, but she responded with when
Speaker 1: racism will end when it's no longer useful for white people.
Speaker 1: And I thought that that was just and I've heard
Speaker 1: it before, but it's like every time that you hear
Speaker 1: that clip. And then the response from you know, was
Speaker 1: a white journalist, was you know, well, what do you
Speaker 1: what do you mean? And she's like, when it's no
Speaker 1: longer useful for you, you will stop using it, like
Speaker 1: plain and simple. That's it's something, you know. And so
Speaker 1: I think that for Republicans in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: it's you know, that question around white fear, right, because
Speaker 1: it's not white rage, it's also white coupled with white fear.
Speaker 1: They will stop using it when it's no longer, When
Speaker 1: fear is no longer their number one marketing tool for
Speaker 1: white America.
Speaker 2: Oh man, this is a scary moment.
Speaker 1: It is, I mean, it is, it's you know, because
Speaker 1: it's scary. And at the same time, Jonathan, don't you
Speaker 1: feel like, while it is scary and I have definite
Speaker 1: it days and hours and I talk about it, you know,
Speaker 1: with you and with other folks that join the show,
Speaker 1: that we know more now, Oh yeah, right, It's like
Speaker 1: we're at a time when we have so much information
Speaker 1: at our fingertips, and I think that that is also
Speaker 1: part of what fuels the fear. But it's also just
Speaker 1: like we know more about people, how people think, how
Speaker 1: people act right, how how easily people are manipulated, and
Speaker 1: so you think that the good people would be able
Speaker 1: to use that information the same way that the bad do.
Speaker 1: But I just don't ever think that that is the case.
Speaker 2: I mean, if that was the case, people wouldn't have
Speaker 2: put their life savings in the truth social stock for example, knowing.
Speaker 1: I mean, who did that besides Donald Trump? Who put
Speaker 1: their life savings other than Donald Trump?
Speaker 2: And I'm saying like past behavior is a of future
Speaker 2: Maybe no, I was kind of makeing a joke there,
Speaker 2: but I will say, you know, I'm thinking of the
Speaker 2: Jason Stanley book about how the one of the most
Speaker 2: important factors for the rise of fascism is a divided opposition.
Speaker 2: And so the question is not just how we smarter,
Speaker 2: but can we not be divided? Which I know is
Speaker 2: what you're working on so much right now that in
Speaker 2: a way I feel like we know more. But also
Speaker 2: the forces that are dividing us are far more effective
Speaker 2: and nuanced. And you know the fact that Elon muscoone's
Speaker 2: Twitter and that somebody is gonna they're gonna do some
Speaker 2: funny stuff to TikTok like the way we So it's
Speaker 2: we know more. But also the forces were against that
Speaker 2: are trying to divide us to create this dystopia are
Speaker 2: also far more, far more advanced, and so in a
Speaker 2: way we have to up our game in so many ways.
Speaker 1: I want to with a couple of minutes that we
Speaker 1: have left, I want to switch topics to where we
Speaker 1: find ourselves in the Israel Hamas War. And you know,
Speaker 1: as we came to tape this today, there's more news
Speaker 1: coming out around the killing of the seven humanitarians working
Speaker 1: with the World Central Kitchen Jseanres's global humanitarian food operation
Speaker 1: that has served millions tens of millions of people, and
Speaker 1: he has an op ed. I know that you didn't
Speaker 1: get an opportunity to read it yet, that is in
Speaker 1: the New York Times. And really it's talking about the
Speaker 1: ways in which food should not be used as a weapon.
Speaker 1: Right that you know, he stated, And I just want
Speaker 1: to give you this like piece, he said quote. Their
Speaker 1: work was based on the simple belief that food is
Speaker 1: a universal human right. It is not conditional on being
Speaker 1: good or bad, rich or poor, left or right. We
Speaker 1: do not ask what religion you beloe to. We just
Speaker 1: ask how many meals do you need? And he says
Speaker 1: this towards the end, which is that israelis, in their
Speaker 1: heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon
Speaker 1: of war. Israel is better than the way this war
Speaker 1: is being waged. It is better than blocking food and
Speaker 1: medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers
Speaker 1: who are who had coordinated their movements with the Israeli
Speaker 1: defense forces. What I just want to get your reactions
Speaker 1: to this again, in a long line of thirty two
Speaker 1: thousand plus Palestinians being killed, you know, aid workers, humanitarian
Speaker 1: workers who are doing their best to stop a net
Speaker 1: Nyahu created famine. What are your thoughts on where we
Speaker 1: find ourselves right now.
Speaker 2: Well, I think we need a whole show on this, honestly,
Speaker 2: I mean a whole section, because it's the fury right
Speaker 2: now that the outrage from I actually think Biden for
Speaker 2: the first time really expressed like real fury. I think
Speaker 2: that the critiques of the Israeli military of the approach
Speaker 2: right now that kind of became symbolized by by what happened.
Speaker 2: And also just honestly, that is Nitta Yah, who's quite
Speaker 2: smug response in a way it clearly didn't grasp this.
Speaker 2: And so you know, as you know, I mean, this
Speaker 2: is a much longer conversation, Like I've been working in
Speaker 2: this part of the world for a long time. I
Speaker 2: refused and I know I refuse to believe that Nittanyah,
Speaker 2: who is a metonym of Israel, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: I know so many people in Israel who are mortified
Speaker 2: about all of this, who didn't want, even after October seventh,
Speaker 2: the invasion to happen in the first place. They said,
Speaker 2: like there's no winning for us other than mobilizing the
Speaker 2: world in a diplomatic way, a more targeted way, that
Speaker 2: there's no good answer to like penalizing the entire population.
Speaker 2: But then I also know that there are all these
Speaker 2: bigger geopolitical forces right that you know, Iran is I mean,
Speaker 2: there's so many other forces at play here. So I
Speaker 2: guess the question right now is what will the killing
Speaker 2: of these seven humanitarian workers, what will it come to
Speaker 2: symbolize in the coming weeks and months and years. In
Speaker 2: other words, is this the moment because it's also the
Speaker 2: same week where you know, there was an attack on
Speaker 2: the Iranian embassy and things like that, is this the
Speaker 2: beginning of a larger expansion of the war. I don't
Speaker 2: mean just this intact, I mean just more so, I
Speaker 2: guess the question for me is like this volatile moment
Speaker 2: right now. I mean, as I've said all along, my
Speaker 2: position is I think we should be working also with
Speaker 2: the Israeli left who have been trying to topple Nadana
Speaker 2: out for quite some time. And I don't even get
Speaker 2: me started about this, like this is the poll pot,
Speaker 2: as I said, the first week of our era in
Speaker 2: a way, and so just straight up, of course it's unconscionable.
Speaker 2: But I also think that we're at a really dangerous
Speaker 2: moment right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I.
Speaker 2: Think somebody like nint to know who's cornered, and somebody
Speaker 2: also like Iran is cornered right because they can't not
Speaker 2: respond to this, and so you know, I just think,
Speaker 2: I just think it's like a moment where I just
Speaker 2: there needs to be a different narrative. I'm just so
Speaker 2: angry that there's not a different narrative that isn't about
Speaker 2: escalation right now. But it's like who doesn't benefit from
Speaker 2: escalation right now? So what I hope is that this
Speaker 2: horrible crime leads to de escalation. That's my hope. But
Speaker 2: I also I am not super optimistic that that's going
Speaker 2: to happen. And yeah, of course I agree, I agree
Speaker 2: about food and I mean, if anybody should know that
Speaker 2: it's Israel that you know. But I guess the other
Speaker 2: part of this, of course, is there are still the
Speaker 2: hostages and trying to save their lives and get them
Speaker 2: out and what are the weapons to turn people on ams?
Speaker 2: But all this thing, but I mean, it's more than
Speaker 2: I can talk about.
Speaker 1: No, I know, and I know, and we will absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, pick up and continue this conversation next week.
Speaker 1: But I thought that it was important to just get
Speaker 1: your perspective because of the work that you have done
Speaker 1: in the region for so long, because I wonder you know,
Speaker 1: we we we You and I often over the years
Speaker 1: have talked about quote unquote tipping point moments. When is
Speaker 1: said mass shooting going to be the tipping point of
Speaker 1: changing the narrative? Is this going to be? You know,
Speaker 1: we're I just feel like we're always waiting or on
Speaker 1: the edge of a tipping point that we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: ever see, uh to you know, to to it's to
Speaker 1: its frurish, And so I was I was curious to
Speaker 1: your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Well again again, Nitan Yahu is like Trump in a
Speaker 2: certain kind of way, like he's going to do the
Speaker 2: thing that's gonna save his political life in a certain
Speaker 2: kind of way. But we'll see, because I'll just tell you,
Speaker 2: unless things really blow up, I'm going to be going
Speaker 2: back to the region in July because I've been doing
Speaker 2: all this Israel Palestine gun violence prevention work over the years,
Speaker 2: and they've invited me to come back in July, and
Speaker 2: I I think I'm going to go back and see
Speaker 2: what I can find out myself. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2: But you know, I'll be reporting from on the ground
Speaker 2: if that's possible. As you know, I've been doing work
Speaker 2: with a group of Israeli and Palestinian doctors and also
Speaker 2: a feminist Israeli Palestinian feminist group that that have been
Speaker 2: doing a lot of work on trying to let me
Speaker 2: talk about a thankless job they're trying. Their their point
Speaker 2: is to get all the guns out of Israeli occupied territories.
Speaker 2: That's that's what they've been doing. I mean, there are
Speaker 2: people on the ground there who do like incredibly brave work,
Speaker 2: So I want to go support them if I can.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll see them, yeah, yeah, all right, Well
Speaker 1: we will leave it there today, Jonathan. It is great
Speaker 1: to have you back and being conversation as you continue
Speaker 1: your book tour. Really appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Hanging there. Everybody.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today, Dear friends, on woke
Speaker 1: a f as always, Power to the people and to
Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.