1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKP Daily with Meet 2 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: I want to start off today's show with my thoughts 4 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: on what is transpired most recently in Gaza, which is 5 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: the killing of seven aid workers from the World Central Kitchen, 6 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: Jose Andreas's global humanitarian food organization that has been aiding 7 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: areas of conflict, areas that have been destroyed from hurricanes 8 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: and tornadoes and the like. And you know, today I 9 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: Jonathan is back on the show, and I ask him 10 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: towards the end of our interview about his thoughts, and 11 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: we're going to have a longer conversation about it next week. 12 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: But you know, I ended my interview with Jonathan by 13 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,919 Speaker 1: saying that we always find ourselves looking for a tipping 14 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: point moment, looking for a moment where people really see 15 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: what is happening right, and that decisions are made based 16 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 1: on the vileness right, like one of the reasons during 17 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: the height of the Civil rights movement to video and 18 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: to put on television the brutality that surrounded segregation and 19 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: the Jim Crow era. Those images began to change people's 20 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: hearts and minds. You know, when you're seeing children be brutalized, 21 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: people be brutalized with fire hoses, and the pressure and 22 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: the beatings and the humiliation and the degradation and all 23 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: of those things, it began to change the course of history. Similarly, 24 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: I wonder what will happen following the purposeful killing because 25 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: what we know and what Joseandreas said recently in his 26 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: ap ed that if you have not read, I encourage 27 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: you all to read Let People Eat, because it is 28 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: heartbreaking and honest about food being used as a weapon. Right, 29 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: and I think that the world has had enough of 30 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: giving Netanyahu and the if the benefit of the doubt. 31 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: Thirty two thousand plus people are dead, more than half 32 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: of them being children. People are being starved to death, 33 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: medicine being denied, and now this is one in a 34 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: series of aid workers who have been killed. And Netniyahu's 35 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: response is just so fucking depraved when he says, well, 36 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, that's what happens in war. No, actually, that 37 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: isn't what happens in war, because there are rules of 38 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: engagement for a fucking reason. Absolutely, war is heinous. But 39 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: as I listen to an analyst recently, on cable news, say, 40 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: but we're not supposed to be dealing with a dictator 41 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: or a head of a terrorist organization. This is the 42 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: president of a supposed democracy where you are supposed to 43 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: follow rules and regulations about how you engage. But that's 44 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: not what's happening. So why do we keep giving this 45 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: motherfucker the benefit of the doubt when we know that 46 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: his heart is calloused, as is the hearts of the 47 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: people that are inside of that cannesse it. So when 48 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: you start to see, as they don't show on regular news, 49 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: thousands of people emptying into the streets in Israel demanding 50 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: his fucking resignation because they don't want this, because what 51 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: he he is doing is honestly shifting the world's view 52 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: on this country, and that's never a good thing. You 53 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: know what jose Andres says towards the end of his 54 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: let people Eat up ed in the New York Times, 55 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: is this that really just got me? The peoples of 56 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean and Middle East, regardless of ethnicity and religion, 57 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: share a culture that values food as a powerful statement 58 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: of humanity and hospitality, of our shared hope for a 59 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: better tomorrow. There's a reason at this special time of year. 60 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: Christians make Easter eggs. Muslims eat an egg at if 61 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: Tar dinners, and an egg sits on the Sator plate. 62 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: This symbol of life and hope reborn in spring extends 63 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: across religions and cultures. I have been a stranger at 64 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: Sator dinners. I have heard the ancient Passover stories about 65 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: being a stranger in the land of Egypt, the commandment 66 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: to remember with a feast before you, that the children 67 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: of Israel were once slaves. It is not a sign 68 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: of weakness to feed strangers, It is a sign of strength. 69 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: The people of Israel need to remember, at this darkest 70 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: hour what strength truly looks like. I leave that with 71 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: you all today because I think, in this moment of 72 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: great darkness that we are all experiencing in this country, 73 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: in Gaza, in Israel, in the Congo, in Ukraine, around 74 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: the world, in the nations, that we don't lift up 75 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: to a spotlight, that we are being fed a false image, 76 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: an idea of what strength and power looks like. And 77 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: because people find themselves so desperate, they are consuming it, 78 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: knowing that it will never fill them. When it is darkest, 79 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: we must choose the light and be the light. Coming 80 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: up next, my conversation with our friend, our in house doctor, 81 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, I am so excited to welcome 82 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: back our world traveler, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who has been 83 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: on the road selling his new book and having a conversation, 84 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: starting conversations about what we've become his new book, which 85 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: is out now. If you guys have not gotten it yet, 86 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: you need to get this book and be in conversation. Jonathan, 87 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: welcome back. Tell us how the tour has been. How, 88 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,479 Speaker 1: you know, because you're out there talking to real Americans, 89 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: not like me, because you know, according to corporate media, 90 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: I'm not a real American. But you're out there talking 91 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: to real Americans. So what have you been hearing? 92 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: Well, it's been honestly incredible and powerful, as you know, 93 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: because we have been talking about this for a long 94 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: time and also in our great conversation in Brooklyn. You know, 95 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 2: this isn't the kind of book that, like you can 96 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: summarize in three sentences, and so it's been really great 97 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 2: to get out there and talk about issues of race 98 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 2: and gun violence and mental illness and democracy, which are 99 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 2: all the themes that the book kind of revolves around. 100 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: And I've just been honored and privileged to go to 101 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: really to be let into some incredible conversations. I was 102 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh yesterday and we had a morning kind of 103 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 2: roundtable with gun violence prevention groups from across Pittsburgh. People 104 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: were there who were working with people who were It 105 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: was really interesting working with in gun violence prevention in Pittsburgh, 106 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: working with people who are just being incarcerated and we're 107 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: just getting kind of let out. And they were saying that, 108 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: like people were going into into prison thinking that like 109 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: the gun situation was one thing, and then then when 110 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: they come out ten years later, it's just so much 111 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: worse than when they went in because there's so many 112 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 2: more guns, and the pandemicum funded everything, and there's so 113 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: much more polarization, and so really talking to people on 114 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: the ground about this stuff, about what it means, it's just, 115 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: you know, it's the honor of writing a book like 116 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: this and so on doing that. I'll be in Louisville 117 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: next week, in Seattle and a couple of other stops. 118 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 2: So really, I mean, to me, that's the great part 119 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: of spending five or six years working on a project 120 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: is then you get to actually talk about what it 121 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: means in the real world. 122 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, I love that, and I think 123 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: that what an interesting perspective to be talking to people 124 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: that are were formally incarcerated and their experience going in 125 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: with the world being one way and coming out with 126 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: it being a completely other way. I'm sure there are 127 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: so many different perspectives that are of value. And I think, 128 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately in this country, we're just going to 129 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: continue talking about guns because they don't ever seem to 130 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: be going anywhere, and the problem seems to continue to 131 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: get worse. And you know, I'm from Long Island, New York, 132 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 1: and where I have grown up, I've told you, out 133 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: east on Long Island in Suffolk County has become incredibly red. 134 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: It was not incredibly red when I was when I 135 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: was growing up, And you know, I see more pickup 136 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: trucks and I with you know, gun paraphernalia on the 137 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: back of it than I ever did my entire life 138 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: of growing up. And so there is this sense of 139 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: fear that I have in certain in certain areas that 140 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: I didn't before like and that's coming as being you know, 141 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: a black woman going to a school that was you know, 142 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: and living in neighborhoods that were like ninety six and 143 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: ninety seven percent white. But it is this greater relationship, 144 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: I guess, Jonathan, is a question. There seems to be 145 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: a deeper relationship almost that is being forged between people 146 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: and their guns, particularly the new groups of people who 147 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: were not quote unquote traditional gun owners that now see, well, 148 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: if everybody else has one, I need to have one too. 149 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: No, it's a conscious market. I mean, that was the 150 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 2: talk one of the talks I gave in Pittsburgh yesterday. 151 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: I gave a couple of talks, but one was just 152 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: about the way that that market is created and fostered 153 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 2: by using fear. And so, for example, after the murder 154 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: of George Floyd, Black and Latino Americans were specifically targeted 155 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: by gun advertisers basically saying, the cops are going to 156 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: you need a gun or you're going to end up 157 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: like George Floyd or something like that. After October seventh, 158 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: Jewish Americans were targeted saying the world is going to 159 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: turn on you and you don't want it. You need 160 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: to be armed. And so basically it's this politics of 161 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: fear that then puts guns into that place. What I 162 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: heard from some of these, like people who were working 163 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: with what's the word for people who were incarcerated and 164 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: then just got out newly unincarcerated. I'm not quite sure. 165 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: I want to get a right to let me google it. 166 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but what they were saying was that when they 167 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: went in prison, like you actually had to work to 168 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 2: get a gun, and now a ten year old can 169 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: get a gun. And so just the idea of just 170 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: kind of how many more guns And a lot of 171 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: the people who were the violence for prevention people also 172 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 2: told me that all the rules went out the window 173 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: during the pandemic, which was like when they started seeing 174 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: many more things. And so in a way, guns become 175 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 2: on one hand, guns become they've become like your form 176 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 2: of self protection when the world's going to shit, and 177 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: it's it's hard because, as I've been saying for like 178 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: months here, then the argument of let's all put our 179 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: name in a government database and trust each other and 180 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: common sense public health, it's just not a convincing argument 181 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: for people. And so I do worry that like Trump 182 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: is really speaking to this fear, and Biden isn't like 183 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: Trump is saying, like everybody needs a gun because the 184 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 2: world is terrifying, and I'm creating the. 185 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: Terror returning citizen. 186 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: Returning thank you. Yeah yeah, that was that's right, thank you. Yeah. 187 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: But so that's part of it. But then the other, 188 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 2: I think, to me, the other, like the other bullshit 189 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: part of this. Honestly, I just keep thinking because I'm 190 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: I want to write a new op ed and I'm 191 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: just I can't figure out how to start it. But like, 192 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: the whole gun logic right now is like the good 193 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: guys need guns because the bad guys have guns or 194 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: something like that. 195 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that's been the I mean, I know, I 196 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: feel like that has been the logic, right. 197 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: But like the crazy thing is how the good guy 198 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: gun market is creating the bad guy gun market. Like 199 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: the issue that people aren't thinking about is how like 200 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: those two things. And so we've known for a long 201 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 2: time there's this thing called the Iron pipeline where like 202 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: states with tight gun regulations, people who are going to 203 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: commit crimes they just go to red states and buy 204 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: their guns and come back. So because anybody can buy 205 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: a gun in a lot of these states, and so 206 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: and there's this this whole funnel of like guns that 207 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: started out as quote unquote legal guns that then become 208 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: illegal guns. And the other thing, of course is like 209 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: many mass shooters are legal gun owners. But the thing 210 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: is like Republicans now use this thing of like crime. 211 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: They're trying to like hang this around the neck of 212 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: the Democrats as if like crime is something that's all 213 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: about policing. But really the gun market is creating so 214 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: much crime, and it's just like crazy because they're creating 215 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: the problem that then they I mean, the Democrats, as 216 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: you know from my book, are more than more than 217 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: to blame for a lot of this stuff. But in 218 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 2: this particular issue, I'll give an example. Yesterday in Tennessee, 219 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: there was a bill passed by a great Democratic state 220 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: legislator that was trying to ban what are called straw purchases, 221 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: which is like the most obvious thing in the world. 222 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: People go buy guns at a gun show, they come out, 223 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 2: they come outside, and then then they give them or 224 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: sell them to people who are not allowed to have guns. 225 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of data that shows that these 226 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: straw purchases, those guns then lead to a lot of crimes. 227 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: So the Democrats tried to like regulate straw purchases, which 228 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 2: we do like in Alabama, and Florida and every blue state, 229 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: and the Republicans here blocked it. So they're literally like 230 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 2: blocking the bills that are going to then allow guns 231 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 2: to then become quote unquote illegal guns. And so this 232 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: whole idea of like the legal versus illegal gun is 233 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: just to me, it's I don't want to say it's 234 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: a red herring, but it's like a problem that the 235 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: Republicans are creating and then trying to have the Democrats 236 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: own it by then saying you're loose on crime. 237 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: I don't even think so I'll go one step further 238 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: because I don't even think that the entire strategy is 239 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,479 Speaker 1: wrapped around creating a problem that then you want Democrats 240 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: to own. I think that Republicans are purposefully creating a 241 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: problem that then will create the pathway for an authoritarian exactly. 242 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: So if you so, it isn't so. I don't even 243 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: think that. It's just like, oh, well, then we want 244 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: to make this Joe Biden's problem. It's like, no, you 245 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: create the conditions, you create the healthscape, and then you say, oh, 246 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: but I have this solution, and the solution happens to 247 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: be this one man that is going to make all 248 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: of your nightmares, you know, into fairy tales, right, Like, 249 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: that's what it is that they're you know that they're creating, 250 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: because it's a it's obscene, right Like, if you are 251 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: supposedly about law and order and you're saying, oh, well, 252 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: only people that have you know, the legal ability to 253 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: have guns should have access to guns, then why wouldn't 254 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: you go ahead and vote for a measure that makes 255 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,479 Speaker 1: it difficult for people who are not supposed to have 256 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: guns to have guns because you don't actually care who 257 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: has a gun because you think everyone should have a gun, right, 258 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: And then you'll create the conditions that escalate violence, that 259 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: then get people into a whipped up frenzy of fear 260 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: that then they believe that this one person can come 261 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: in and save them. 262 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: And also it creates these hierarchies that because everything is monetized. Really, 263 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at this Trump social nonst 264 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 2: to social nonsense, every single thing is MONTI. So it's 265 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: also like what I write about in What We've Become 266 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 2: is how first you scare black Americans into buying guns, 267 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 2: then you use the representation of black Americans with guns 268 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: to then sell more guns to white Americans, and so 269 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: it becomes this vicious cycle where the people who are 270 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: supporting that fascist dictator are also gaining monetarily by like 271 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 2: pitting each other against each other tribally and all these ways. 272 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 2: So it becomes this manipulation that then creates almost like 273 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 2: a classic arms race, you know, where the gun seller 274 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: is selling guns to both sides and so. 275 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: For re call it that, Jonathan, what's that your piece 276 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: that you're mulling around in your head? Use arms race 277 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: in there somehow. 278 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, the American arms race. Actually, because 279 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 2: I'm still you know, it's still mad they didn't let 280 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: me call the book How We Lost. I'm still like 281 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: mad about that every day. It was such a better 282 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: title for the book, but they told me, like, nobody's 283 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 2: going to buy a book about losing. But it's really 284 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: like we our strategies don't respond to like the manipulation 285 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: that's that's happening. We're we're being what was that, you know, 286 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 2: these these fake stocks, Like we're just being manipulated by 287 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: these algorithms right into you know, that's like this trump 288 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: This truth social is like a perfect metaphor for the 289 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: way the gun economy works also, which is they scare 290 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: the shit out of people to raise the stocks and 291 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: stuff like that. 292 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, the other day was circulating 293 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: on social media and it's an interview that Tony Morrison 294 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: gave and I think the question from the journalist I 295 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: was interviewing her was something to the effect of do 296 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: you think that racism will ever end? And she said, 297 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: and I'm not quoting directly, but she responded with when 298 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: racism will end when it's no longer useful for white people. 299 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: And I thought that that was just and I've heard 300 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: it before, but it's like every time that you hear 301 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: that clip. And then the response from you know, was 302 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: a white journalist, was you know, well, what do you 303 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: what do you mean? And she's like, when it's no 304 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: longer useful for you, you will stop using it, like 305 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 1: plain and simple. That's it's something, you know. And so 306 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: I think that for Republicans in a lot of ways, 307 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: it's you know, that question around white fear, right, because 308 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: it's not white rage, it's also white coupled with white fear. 309 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: They will stop using it when it's no longer, When 310 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: fear is no longer their number one marketing tool for 311 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: white America. 312 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 2: Oh man, this is a scary moment. 313 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: It is, I mean, it is, it's you know, because 314 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: it's scary. And at the same time, Jonathan, don't you 315 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: feel like, while it is scary and I have definite 316 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: it days and hours and I talk about it, you know, 317 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: with you and with other folks that join the show, 318 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: that we know more now, Oh yeah, right, It's like 319 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: we're at a time when we have so much information 320 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: at our fingertips, and I think that that is also 321 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: part of what fuels the fear. But it's also just 322 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: like we know more about people, how people think, how 323 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: people act right, how how easily people are manipulated, and 324 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: so you think that the good people would be able 325 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: to use that information the same way that the bad do. 326 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: But I just don't ever think that that is the case. 327 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 2: I mean, if that was the case, people wouldn't have 328 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 2: put their life savings in the truth social stock for example, knowing. 329 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean, who did that besides Donald Trump? Who put 330 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: their life savings other than Donald Trump? 331 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 2: And I'm saying like past behavior is a of future 332 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: Maybe no, I was kind of makeing a joke there, 333 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: but I will say, you know, I'm thinking of the 334 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 2: Jason Stanley book about how the one of the most 335 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: important factors for the rise of fascism is a divided opposition. 336 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 2: And so the question is not just how we smarter, 337 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 2: but can we not be divided? Which I know is 338 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: what you're working on so much right now that in 339 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 2: a way I feel like we know more. But also 340 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 2: the forces that are dividing us are far more effective 341 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 2: and nuanced. And you know the fact that Elon muscoone's 342 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: Twitter and that somebody is gonna they're gonna do some 343 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: funny stuff to TikTok like the way we So it's 344 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: we know more. But also the forces were against that 345 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 2: are trying to divide us to create this dystopia are 346 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 2: also far more, far more advanced, and so in a 347 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 2: way we have to up our game in so many ways. 348 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: I want to with a couple of minutes that we 349 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: have left, I want to switch topics to where we 350 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: find ourselves in the Israel Hamas War. And you know, 351 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: as we came to tape this today, there's more news 352 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: coming out around the killing of the seven humanitarians working 353 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: with the World Central Kitchen Jseanres's global humanitarian food operation 354 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: that has served millions tens of millions of people, and 355 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: he has an op ed. I know that you didn't 356 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: get an opportunity to read it yet, that is in 357 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: the New York Times. And really it's talking about the 358 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: ways in which food should not be used as a weapon. 359 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: Right that you know, he stated, And I just want 360 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: to give you this like piece, he said quote. Their 361 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: work was based on the simple belief that food is 362 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: a universal human right. It is not conditional on being 363 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: good or bad, rich or poor, left or right. We 364 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: do not ask what religion you beloe to. We just 365 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: ask how many meals do you need? And he says 366 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: this towards the end, which is that israelis, in their 367 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon 368 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: of war. Israel is better than the way this war 369 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: is being waged. It is better than blocking food and 370 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers 371 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: who are who had coordinated their movements with the Israeli 372 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: defense forces. What I just want to get your reactions 373 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: to this again, in a long line of thirty two 374 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: thousand plus Palestinians being killed, you know, aid workers, humanitarian 375 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: workers who are doing their best to stop a net 376 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: Nyahu created famine. What are your thoughts on where we 377 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: find ourselves right now. 378 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think we need a whole show on this, honestly, 379 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: I mean a whole section, because it's the fury right 380 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: now that the outrage from I actually think Biden for 381 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 2: the first time really expressed like real fury. I think 382 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: that the critiques of the Israeli military of the approach 383 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: right now that kind of became symbolized by by what happened. 384 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: And also just honestly, that is Nitta Yah, who's quite 385 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: smug response in a way it clearly didn't grasp this. 386 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: And so you know, as you know, I mean, this 387 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: is a much longer conversation, Like I've been working in 388 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: this part of the world for a long time. I 389 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 2: refused and I know I refuse to believe that Nittanyah, 390 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 2: who is a metonym of Israel, you know what I mean, Like, 391 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 2: I know so many people in Israel who are mortified 392 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: about all of this, who didn't want, even after October seventh, 393 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 2: the invasion to happen in the first place. They said, 394 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: like there's no winning for us other than mobilizing the 395 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: world in a diplomatic way, a more targeted way, that 396 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: there's no good answer to like penalizing the entire population. 397 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 2: But then I also know that there are all these 398 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 2: bigger geopolitical forces right that you know, Iran is I mean, 399 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: there's so many other forces at play here. So I 400 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 2: guess the question right now is what will the killing 401 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: of these seven humanitarian workers, what will it come to 402 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 2: symbolize in the coming weeks and months and years. In 403 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 2: other words, is this the moment because it's also the 404 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 2: same week where you know, there was an attack on 405 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: the Iranian embassy and things like that, is this the 406 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: beginning of a larger expansion of the war. I don't 407 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: mean just this intact, I mean just more so, I 408 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 2: guess the question for me is like this volatile moment 409 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 2: right now. I mean, as I've said all along, my 410 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 2: position is I think we should be working also with 411 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: the Israeli left who have been trying to topple Nadana 412 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 2: out for quite some time. And I don't even get 413 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: me started about this, like this is the poll pot, 414 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 2: as I said, the first week of our era in 415 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: a way, and so just straight up, of course it's unconscionable. 416 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 2: But I also think that we're at a really dangerous 417 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 2: moment right now. 418 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I. 419 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 2: Think somebody like nint to know who's cornered, and somebody 420 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: also like Iran is cornered right because they can't not 421 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: respond to this, and so you know, I just think, 422 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 2: I just think it's like a moment where I just 423 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: there needs to be a different narrative. I'm just so 424 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 2: angry that there's not a different narrative that isn't about 425 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 2: escalation right now. But it's like who doesn't benefit from 426 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 2: escalation right now? So what I hope is that this 427 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: horrible crime leads to de escalation. That's my hope. But 428 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: I also I am not super optimistic that that's going 429 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: to happen. And yeah, of course I agree, I agree 430 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: about food and I mean, if anybody should know that 431 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 2: it's Israel that you know. But I guess the other 432 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 2: part of this, of course, is there are still the 433 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: hostages and trying to save their lives and get them 434 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 2: out and what are the weapons to turn people on ams? 435 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 2: But all this thing, but I mean, it's more than 436 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: I can talk about. 437 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: No, I know, and I know, and we will absolutely, 438 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, pick up and continue this conversation next week. 439 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: But I thought that it was important to just get 440 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: your perspective because of the work that you have done 441 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: in the region for so long, because I wonder you know, 442 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: we we we You and I often over the years 443 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: have talked about quote unquote tipping point moments. When is 444 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: said mass shooting going to be the tipping point of 445 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: changing the narrative? Is this going to be? You know, 446 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: we're I just feel like we're always waiting or on 447 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: the edge of a tipping point that we don't necessarily 448 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: ever see, uh to you know, to to it's to 449 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: its frurish, And so I was I was curious to 450 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: your thoughts. 451 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 2: Well again again, Nitan Yahu is like Trump in a 452 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 2: certain kind of way, like he's going to do the 453 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: thing that's gonna save his political life in a certain 454 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: kind of way. But we'll see, because I'll just tell you, 455 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: unless things really blow up, I'm going to be going 456 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: back to the region in July because I've been doing 457 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 2: all this Israel Palestine gun violence prevention work over the years, 458 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: and they've invited me to come back in July, and 459 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: I I think I'm going to go back and see 460 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: what I can find out myself. So we'll see what happens. 461 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: But you know, I'll be reporting from on the ground 462 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 2: if that's possible. As you know, I've been doing work 463 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 2: with a group of Israeli and Palestinian doctors and also 464 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,479 Speaker 2: a feminist Israeli Palestinian feminist group that that have been 465 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: doing a lot of work on trying to let me 466 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 2: talk about a thankless job they're trying. Their their point 467 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: is to get all the guns out of Israeli occupied territories. 468 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: That's that's what they've been doing. I mean, there are 469 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 2: people on the ground there who do like incredibly brave work, 470 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 2: So I want to go support them if I can. 471 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll see them, yeah, yeah, all right, Well 472 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: we will leave it there today, Jonathan. It is great 473 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: to have you back and being conversation as you continue 474 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: your book tour. Really appreciate you. 475 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 2: Hanging there. Everybody. 476 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, Dear friends, on woke 477 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: a f as always, Power to the people and to 478 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.